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- Church of Scotland’s revised ‘Promised Land’ report has softer edges … 18
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- Exile and the prophetic: No dissenter is an island 8
- Islamophobia is as widespread and acceptable as anti-Semitism used to … 19
- Demonizing Mandy Patinkin is a tough sell 24
- ‘If I had to choose between the wealth of the … 15
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- Israeli airport sorts passengers with ‘Jewish stickers’ and ‘Arab stickers’ 674
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- Dershowitz calls Hawking an ‘ignoramus,’ a ‘lemming,’ and likely an … 202
- In photos: Gaza marches and rallies mark 65 years of … 149
- Glenn Greenwald brings facts and reason to ‘Real Time’, ruins … 145
- San Francisco bus ads condemn Israeli apartheid: backlash begins 120
- Washington Post’s racism map omits Israel 101
- Washington state bus-ad campaign dares to state: ‘Equal rights for … 100
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- US Jews are so ‘polarized’ over Israel they can’t talk … 160
- Dershowitz calls Hawking an ‘ignoramus,’ a ‘lemming,’ and likely an … 149
- Glenn Greenwald brings facts and reason to ‘Real Time’, ruins … 88
- Israeli right-wing flys off the deep end following Hawking boycott 78
- International Criminal Court opens preliminary investigation into attack on Mavi … 75
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- Guatemalan genocide got assist from US, Christian Right, and Israel http://t.co/oJT9HsoQcD, 17 hours ago
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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
We can speculate as to Greenwald's reasoning here, but the fact remains that foreign intervention and, historically, imperial designs, play a major role in shaping the views of people in the region, from North Africa to Iraq and even Iran.
It's all part of the collective memory of the region's native people. In other words, there doesn't have to be a direct and pronounced connection between Israel's policies toward the Palestinians and bin Laden's (and his followers') reasoning, on the one hand and the pan-Arab/Muslim view of the Israeli Palestinian conflict, on the other hand.
Greenwald is reluctant to acknowledge that regardless of bin Laden's stated aims, the grievances (i.e. US Israel relations and policy toward Palestinians) are legitimate had they existed in a vacuum. But, Greenwald seems unwilling to make the connection for fear of appearing to approve or agree or even justify bin Laden's goals.
I think Greenwald made a wise decision. Had he made that connection, he would have inadvertently contributed to delegitimizing the concerns regarding US/Israeli foreign policy in the region.
On a side note, it's difficult to define organizations and their stated goals (re: bin Laden), when disinformation and propaganda are used by governments to either exagerate or diminsh from "al-Qaeda" depending on the interests de jur.
For example, does al-Qaeda really exist in the capacity and reach various governments claim? When news media report that "al-Qaeda" or groups associated with it were responsible for one attack or another, can we say for sure if that's truly the case? In the last few years, "al-Qaeda" has purportedly attacked civilians in market places and shopping centers in Morocco, Algiers, Egypt, Jordan, and the far east. Is it possible that they are all linked? Yes. Is it possible that they are not linked, and that several of these attacks were actually a result of local conflicts or local politics? Yes.
I'm relieved to hear this good news and I'm glad she's safe and sound on her way home to her family.
Joe Lieberman thinks he's helping Israel by repeatedly linking terrorism with Arabs and Islam and keeping the topic in the national discourse.
What he doesn't seem to comprehend is the fact that he's politically irrelevant.
Let's slice through the knee deep dung in your posts; when suicide attacks were taking place, did you attribute those attacks to a select number of rogue individuals or did you ascribe that policy to Hamas as a whole? Explain why.
Cliff- If you are talking geopolitically it is feasible to say that anti semitism is a petty issue, (because Zionism kills more people than anti semitism kills). But anti semitism kills, so on an individual basis it is not a petty issue.
I don't think that was Cliff's characterization of the issue.
The problem with such debates is that it's inevitable that at one point or another a detractor comes along and attempts to justify Israel's genocidal policies against the Palestinians by invoking anti-Semitic as the underlying cause for said policies. As if the end justifies the means, when in essence the two are unrelated. And like clockwork, Dick shows up and illustrates how that very tactic is to be used. It's his specialty.
Fear makes Israel adhere to common decency, never mind international law, fear of a lawsuit after targeting and destroying more than three UN schools in Gaza and a warehouse full of UN humanitarian aid. But, don't worry, Tel Aviv will find away to make the UN pay that sum back, one way or another. Heck, they don't even have to try hard, just accuse the UN of being anti-Semitic and it's as good as a done deal.
/Cynicism off
Despicable.
So when is Dennis Ross and the HACKS and LIARS in Washington going to tell that serial killer Netanyahu to "stop using violence", like they often say to the Palestinians? Any time soon?
The Druze leadership was coopted early on by the Israeli establishment, and today, the effects of that cooptation can be seen in many young Druze's desperate attempt to seem more patriotic than the average Jewish kid in the army. So they abuse the Palestinians much in the same way an abused child grows up to become an abusive husband (or wife). A classic case of Eved Ki Yimloch (The slave was bequeathed the throne).
As for the wall, well it's the old song and dance. I mean, it was put there for security purposes, don'tya know?
That, in a nutshell is a good summary of Israel's past, present and future policy in regard to the so-called peace in the Middle East.
The Israeli established recognizes that Israel stands to lose land and some natural resources in a possible peace treaty. Also, it recognizes that should a just and true peace prevail, Israel's hegemonic position in the region will be diminished.
So, to maintain supremacy and hegemony, Israel has been and will continue to 'manage the conflict', if you will. That is to say that in the Israeli government's view, bombing or invading neighboring areas and states every now and then to silence any dissent or resistance stemming from its illegal and unjust policies is far more advantageous than actually reaching a peaceful understanding that which addresses the concerns of both parties. For if it promoted the latter, it would no longer be a hegemonic regional actor.
As an aside, it seems that the US has adopted that strategy on a global level, namely the use of low intensity warfare to 'manage' growing dissatisfaction with its foreign policy and to assert its position and power in various regions.
Do you try to use every leftest hackneyed talking points on your posts or is it the way you think. I would guess you are a very young person with little real world experience who has taken the Palestinians on as a religion.
As you continue to make assumptions - par for the course for you - you continue to make an ass of yourself. I sure hope you're not about to change your behavior any time soon as it is very helpful for "my religion" in proving the Zionist farce.
You could be 130 years old for all I care, but your passive aggressive act proves you're mentally juvenile. Again, no surprise there given your inability to think beyond myths and lies that were fed to you with a spoon. A mature person, would at the very least show some intellectual curiosity.
little real world experience
Must you project your own insecurities and deficiencies onto others?
The framing is a key part of the propaganda.
The assumption is always one that ostracizes the person shining a light on Palestinian suffering/history, as if that aspect is verboten, criminal, immoral by its very nature. As if to say that any person of good conscience and moral fortitude should, nay must, side with Israel from the outset.
That's pure propaganda and it seems the Israel firsters in the American media have much in common with their fellow hacks, the Sean Hannitys and the Wolf Blitzers out there.
She’s an idiot for traveling around a third world country by herself.
I have been to Egypt and after living in Canada and the US for a few years, I have come to the conclusion that Israel is a "third world country".
I’ve been to Egypt several times and have some very good friends in the Coptic community there
Yes. God forbid you actually had friends in the Muslim community. But at least you didn't hock the "I've got lots of Egyptian friends" meme (re: Stephen Colbert's "I've got a black friend").
Egypt is a very dangerous place, especially for an American girl traveling alone.
Given your warped grasp of the reality of the Israeli Palestinian issue -- as evidenced in your countless posts -- your perceptions regarding safety in Egypt are dubious.
I should add a correction.
I meant to say, "on the only highway to Cairo". There are other roads that cross straight from east (Dahab) to west (Suez) saving travelers the trip down to Sharam al Shaikh and then back up again along the western coast. But, I don't think those secondary roads are well traveled. I could be wrong seeing as I've personally only traveled through Sharam al Shaikh.
If the working assumption is that she wasn't detained by Egyptian authorities, then someone in the Sinai or in Eilat needs to go ask taxi drivers around Taba and in the hotel to make sure she actually did get on a taxi. The taxi drivers at the border are usually the same guys everyday, so it won't be too difficult to get some leads.
There's also a military checkpoint at Sharam al-Sheik -- at the tip of the Siani peninsula -- on the ONLY road leading to Cairo. There, Egyptian police/military check visas and passports before they allow visitors who are on the eastern side of the Sinai to travel to the western side, and to Egypt proper.
This is awful.
I hope she is safe and that she is found soon.
Inevitably, what I'm about to write is going to sound trite, old and cliche, but I would like to think its poetic and virtuous power generates hope and optimism.
In the movie The Interpreter, Nicole Kidman's character is holding the leader of a fictitious African state at gun point, imploring him to read from a book he once wrote, long before he became a brutal dictator. And so he reads:
"The gunfire around us makes it hard to hear. But the human voice is different from other sounds. It can be heard over noises that bury everything else. Even when it's not shouting. Even when it's just a whisper. Even the lowest whisper can be heard - -over armies... when it's telling the truth."
Personally, I don't see the distinction between right and left. While the two wings may differ on matters of social policy, health and education related issues, there is no discernible difference between the two in matters of --shall we say -- foreign policy. Sure, historically the Likud and Marach may have voiced different rhetoric regarding Israel's policy toward the Palestinians, on either side of the Green Line, but the facts on the ground and the actions of successive governments tell a different story.
I liken the relationship between the two wings to the existing relationship between Republicans and Democrats in the US. Consider, for example, the differences between Clinton's policy of sanctions on Iraq in the 90s, Bush's invasion of Iraq in the following decade and now Obama's sanctions on Iran.
Some day they will show videos like this in a Nakba museum.
And it will be built from the ruins of the village of Deir Yassin, on a mountaintop facing Yad Vashem.
Let's face it, when Rumsfeld himself was sending memos to Bush, peppered with religious phrases invoking biblical struggles between the forces of good and evil, it should come as no surprise that the "mistakes" mentioned above occur.
General Betray Us sure loves to feign concern.
How about this for concern:
link to army-technology.com
So how does one become a Zionist? It sounds like a fun club to join.
I want in, dang it.
///
Mooser, you're a riot.
All I'm saying is that his views are clearly detached from reality, especially the reality on the ground. Most Israelis are as detached from reality as he is, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he sits comfortably in his apartment somewhere in North America spewing that nonsense and pretending as if he will be affected by whatever happens in the Middle East one way or the other.
I've got news for you, there never such a thing as the "ancient nation of Israel".
The idea of nation states was born after the French Revolution.
Since you're incapable and unwilling to accept facts and evidence that contradict your OPINIONS, then what exactly do you hope to accomplish by continuing to post that drivel here?
Do you really think you're providing some sort of "balance" to this website? You're not. You're providing propaganda with which many on this site are familiar. Also, there are quite a few Israelis here, including myself. Do you even live in Israel at the moment? Or do you think you're a know-it-all while sitting 8,000 miles away observing from a distance?
If you need to feel important at the moment because you've got nothing better to do, then go volunteer for a worthy cause instead of some biblical mirage.
Do you think you're going to "convert" anyone to your camp by repeatedly posting refuted lies and twisted logic?
No one is listening to you. At most, commenters read the first line or two of your posts and then skip ahead.
Get a clue already.
Ashkenazi Jews, against non-Orthodox Jews, against nonwhite Jews
I don't mean to come across as argumentative or picky, but Ashkenazi Jews are European/Western Jews, i.e. white Jews.
Israel is a country that has absorbed astronomic numbers of Russian refugees
That is not an accurate characterization.
While a small group of them may have left due to anti-Semitism, the vast majority immigrated to Israel after the collapse of the Soviet Union seeking a better standard of living and a more stable economy. Refugees, they were not.
Sounds like a story for a Brokedown Palace sequel.
Driveby trolling, eh?
You're like the paper boy who throws the newspaper at you and disappears around the corner. Except in your case, you're distributing newsletters printed by the Israeli ministry of propaganda.
To be honest, I'm a frequent reader of Counterpunch so I just came across it now.
He is good.
Do you have your cut and paste text bookmarked or is it saved as Word document?
It must be difficult for someone like you to keep cutting and pasting. That's almost 4 mouse clicks, isn't it?
I don't mean to take away from this thread's importance, but Ran HaCohen has just put up an article titled "Fascism Needs an Enemy":
link to original.antiwar.com
So what do we learn from this?
You forgot to blame me for global warming. tsk tsk tsk.....you're slipping.
Avi was probably like how dare Jews try to rescue their people against terrorists.
Who's "their", numb nuts?
Do you even know what you're spouting?
And since when does Israel represent world Jewry?
I'm an Israeli. I think I have the right to criticize my own country. Whereas you, ROSEN, well......
Baruch,
I don't blame you if the view from your Brooklyn apartment seems a little cloudy and gray today.
But, as someone who was born and raised in Israel. And as someone who works on a daily basis with Palestinian human rights organizations and other internationally renowned NGOs, I must say, you're clueless at best and a bigoted dim bulb at worse.
Heal thyself. It's going to take considerable effort on your part. You're not worth my time.
Exactly. Israel does not respect Lebanon's sovereignty or internationally recognized borders. Daily incursions into Lebanese land, air and sea are common.
Ergo, any Palestinian state, regardless of its shape or form, will never be sovereign.
International Law has no bearing on Israel. Period. Everyone might as well accept it and go from there instead of debating historical revisionists like Dick Witt.
So, Philip, let's be blunt here and state the obvious, shall we?
Israeli forces murdered these men for the same reason they murdered so many children in Gaza last year; in their world view every Palestinian regardless of age or affiliation is a terrorist. He may not be a terrorist today or tomorrow, but one day, he will.
What was it Rabbi Ovadiya Yosef once said? He said "The only good Arab is a dead Arab".
Both links seem to have disappeared into the ether.
What's Defamation, by the way?
If Julian is your real name, then it bears mention that it's not your typical Israeli name. Pray tell, did you lie about your plans when you entered Israel?
I mean, you did tell the police woman who stamped your passport that you were planning on stealing some hapless Palestinian's land and living on it, right?
Is the reader to conclude that the US embassy somehow learned of his imprisonment and decided to act?
Regardless, this case simply substantiates the fact that Israel is a rogue state.
Let's see....On one side of the scale say, for example, we have a guy from France or Argentina, and on the other side of the scale we have an American citizen who works for a respected news agency in the occupied territories and from time to time writes articles which are critical of Israel's policies.
Yet, that guy from France is granted citizenship and incentives virtually the minute he steps off the plane, simply for being a Jew. And the guy who hasn't committed any violent crimes or incited to violence is thrown in a jail cell, incommunicado for a week and then deported for no reason whatsoever?
The only democracy in the Middle East indeed.
Perhaps Quentin Tarantino could make a movie based on this story called "Feking Basturds".
Those visas don't mean much anyway. So, you didn't really lie. I mean, if some kid with an M-16 at a roadblock can deport a Palestinian student to Gaza because she doesn't have a permit and her Israeli issued ID lists Gaza as her place of residence, despite her being a student in the West Bank, then those "visas" and "permits" are worth nothing. Not only does a Palestinian need a permit to study in her own homeland, but she is deported to the refugee camp (Gaza) to which her family was most likely deported some 60 years prior. But, you're already familiar with the way the system works.
There comes a time when abusive and corrupt regimes lose all credibility and legitimacy, and Israel is a member of that club. In fact, I don't recall a time when Israel actually did have legitimacy.
The caption below the photo says it all.
Basically, US media will rarely publish a story in which Palestinians are critical of Israel's policies. But, if they can claim that Israelis are leading the dissent against their own government then pooof, as if by a wave of a wand they're on the Washington Post.
Have you noticed how US media report Palestinian deaths or injuries?
When the Israeli military or Israeli civilians kill Palestinians, US media (on the rare occasion they do report it) state that, "Palestinians say 2 men were killed today by Israeli.....".
But, when Palestinians kill Israeli soldiers or civilians, the word "say" is nowhere to be found. The information becomes fact, "Two Israeli soldiers were killed today by Palestinian.....".
Similarly, when Israel shells a house or shoots a few people, US media will claim that those killed were militants. No questions asked. Hence, by default, anyone Israeli soldiers shoot is immediately a "militant".
I think in assigning Dershowitz the Terrible the label of a "legal advocate" you give him more credit than he deserves. He is, as a matter of fact, a facilitator and enabler of Israel's crimes. He is not defending a client in a court of law in which the court's decision will have bearing on his client. He is merely a public relations propagandist. If he were defending Israeli leaders at The Hauge, for example, then that label might fit.
But, in this case, he is nothing but an enabler of said crimes.
Even when you're given specifics you find a different excuse to dismiss.
There simply is no point in wasting time addressing the absurdities that you peddle here. Perhaps someone with the patience of a saint could take you up on that offer. I, on the other hand, find you irredeemably transparently shallow and given your religious dogma, it's no wonder evidence has no effect on your perception.
The mental gymnastics you perform to keep Israel's crimes locked in a closet under the guise of pseudo-academic arguments must be exhausting.
The track record is there for anyone to read:
Starting with the massacres of 1948, followed by deliberate and premeditated massacre of Egyptian POWs in 1967, following by a standing order by the army chief to shoot to kill any Palestinian who bends down to the ground to pick up anything during a demonstration to the flattening of Jenin, southern Lebanon and Gaza.
Put together, all these crimes paint a gruesome image of a willfully criminal military and leadership.
If Dershowitz the Terrible wants to explain away each crime as yet another "rogue soldiers" incident, then he's mentally unstable.
When was the last time you were there? 40 AD?
It is profoundly despicable that US security turned away a Doctors without Borders aid plane yesterday due to Clinton's visit to Haiti.
There are people within the US military and civilian apparatus whose job it is to coordinate and oversee such relief efforts, the last thing anyone needs on the ground is a bumbling politician looking for a photo op.
why no mention of the cairo declaration to end israeli apartheid? many gfm participants, including internationals and palestinians in gaza,
Indeed this calls into question Barnabe's main theme regarding Palestinian division (and those e-mail exchanges with professor Finkelstein). I'm not saying he's got an agenda, I'm just saying that given the Cairo declaration, it seems to me that something is missing from Barnabe's thesis.
Dahlan is a thug with a badge like Yuval Diskin.
While Dahlan was torturing Palestinians in Fatah's gulags, Bush was calling him "our guy" and sending him CIA personnel to train him.
When I go back on visits, I'm always struck by the causal tone of the weather man/or woman when they say in Hebrew "15 degrees in Judea and Samaria, 10 in Jerusalem and 18 in Eilat". To my ear it sounds like fingernails scratching a chalkboard.
Although, soldiers usually refer to the West Bank as "The Territories" (Ha Shtachim). I mean they wouldn't want to say that they are committing all those egregious acts in Judea and Samaria as that would imply they are brutalizing Jews in colonies.
The "roots" section is propaganda incarnate.
And Dick's son is a chabadnik. That explains a few **cough** things.
Dr. Gilbert is a true humanitarian.
The man risked his own life trying to save the lives of others, many of whom were children. My hat's off to you, sir.
Well, after the murder of an Iranian professor last week, Iran today announced it was beefing up security to all scientists involved in the nuclear program.
Can you imagine an individual donating to charity or to cancer research and then writing down the amount he donated on a huge sign that reads "I donated $450,000 for _____" (fill in the blank), in bold font and affixing it to a van and then driving around town bragging about it?
That's what Israel does over and over, shamelessly.
If states were individuals, the ones that brag would be said to be compensating for some deficiency. If states were individuals, the ones that abuse a weaker person would be handed a restraining order or told "pick on someone your own size".
But, it seems that all standards of common decency and respect go out the window once political entities are involved. Or, perhaps there are two types of states in the world, gangs and boy scouts.
Whats with all the hatred of Israel on here?
Again, the irony escapes you like a a fighter jet flying mere inches over your head.
You confuse criticism and need for reform with "hatred" as if to ask us, "why aren't you all blindly supporting Israel?"
Then, without missing a beat, you go on criticizing "the Arabs" for behavior that you claim is exclusive to "the Arabs", never realizing that your own blind support for Israel and refusal to acknowledge or fix the existing problems is no different that what you are accusing "the Arabs" of doing.
In other words, you're telling us that the Arab world is a collection of millions of Baruch Rosens. Thanks for clearing that up.
As an aside, your efforts are better served cleaning your own proverbial backyard. Start there and maybe then you will have some legitimacy to criticize everyone else in the region.
If you had any basic knowledge of the monolith you claim the Arab world to be, you wouldn't be saying what you're saying.
But, you do say these things because you're incapable of realizing that Arabs do not consider themselves to be one single entity.
Growing up in Israel one is always brainwashed into seeing "the Arabs" as one threatening entity.
But, why is it different for someone like you to claim that "the Arabs" do this and do that, but if someone said "Jews control the media", you wouldn't hesitate before you accused them of being anti-Semites?
You could put a Moroccan Arab and a Lebanese Arab in a room and they would find no commonality between them.
Why aren't you asking, "How come the English speakers of the world are such hypocrites, look at blacks in the US and the Jim Crow era, look at the occupation of Northern Ireland by the UK, look at the ethnic cleansing of the Aborigines in Australia"?
If you accused John Doe from Sydney that "his kind" is responsible for putting the Japanese in interment camps in WWII, he'd most likely tell you to take a hike.
I hear arguments like yours in Israel all the time and the ignorance and racism of such statements never escape those who peddle them. It's nauseating.
Typical dumb statement. Can anyone name a single instance the Swiss have contributed to the security of the US? How about the Egyptians? Jordanians? Palestinians?
I agree, that was a pretty dumb statement.
As for Richard Parker's post, I can't honestly think of one instant regarding your question about Israel's contribution to the US. One would expect that a state that enjoys the same privileged and unequivocal support much in the same way the 50 states in the union do, Israel sure has shortchanged the US.
In fact, given the reality that Israel enjoys more support, both financially and technologically than many of the states in the union, it is quite absurd that it continues to retain that status.
On the same week when Obama approved a few billion dollar "loan" to Israel last year, California's request for a loan from the federal government was rejected.
It makes you wonder.
These criminals use words like "friend" the same way Javier Bardem's character in No Country for Old Men used the term "friendo": "What business is it of yours where I'm from, friendo? "
So thuggish.
Even if there weren't a connection between US actions and poverty in Haiti, would it kill you to show some compassion and help a fellow human being in a time of need?
What the heck is wrong with you people? You support wars that rob other nations of their own wealth and resources, but the minute you're asked to give to a few helpless disaster stricken people you start whining.
But, the fact that professor Chomsky refuses to acknowledge the power of The Lobby in shaping American policy, especially foreign policy, then how does he expect BDS to gain momentum in the US, which I presume is a major part in that "ruling elite" category?
Wouldn't the first step toward getting the US and its ruling elite on board require some kind of acknowledgment of The Lobby's influence and reach?
I'm afraid when it comes to BDS, Chomsky is opposed on ideological grounds. At least that's the way it seems to me. Uri Avnery opposes the BDS too, and his explanation isn't convincing either.
Sadly Potsherd, the village of Ghajar, as you probably know already, is just a microcosm of the greater "forced separation" imposed by colonialism: Britain, France and most recently Israel.
In the occupied Golan Heights, Syrian (now Israeli) residents are not allowed to visit their relatives in Syria and vice versa. So, for decades now, families gather near the town of Majdal Shams, on either side of the border fence, separated about 1000 or 2000 feet from each other by barbed wire as they shout to each other over megaphones, communicating latest family news, deaths, who got married, each others health etc. That hill became to be known as "The Shouting Hill".
Someone is bound to ask the obvious question: why not call them on the phone, instead? Well, until recently, there was no way to make a direct phone call from Israel to Syria. But, in the advent of Skype, and European based operators, such communication has became possible, although it doesn't replace the human contact, even when they're a few thousand feet apart.
This short report discusses the reality of the situation there:
link to youtube.com
By the way, the movie The Syrian Bride, explores this very issue.
WJ,
The problem with the Geneva Initiative is that Israel would be taking over vast sources of water and leaving the Palestinians with tumbleweed to kick around in the desert. Have you ever been to Lachish or Netousha? They don't call it Netusha (Abandoned) for nothing you know.
First off, the land swap proposal is absurd. You can't tell people in one area that next week they'll be governed by an entirely different entity.
Second, the problem with Israel's proposals for the last twenty some years has been the refusal to discuss Jerusalem's final status. When Ehud Barak offered Arafat that gem of a deal, he wasn't including Jerusalem or any of the illegally annexed nearby towns under occupation.
Third, why don't you educate yourself before starting an argument and taking a position? I'd like to know what else you're not familiar with, or what else you haven't read. Perhaps that's where the disconnect is happening.
I think it's insulting to people's intelligence when you claim that Abbas doesn't want to negotiate, but is merely interested in reaching an agreement NOW. As if the man, or the Palestinian people by extension, are unreasonable buffoons who don't understand basic concepts of "negotiation".
The Palestinians have been negotiating for the last 20 years trying to reach an agreement with the Israelis. The Israelis, however, have been negotiating for the last 20 years for the sake of negotiating, prolonging the talks and building more and more facts on the ground.
You can believe whatever you want to believe. It doesn't change the fact that Israeli leadership is playing a game, while the Palestinians are actually serious.
Even an outsider would know that given Israel's immunity at the Security Council, it's Hasbara propaganda and its military power, it stands to lose in any "peace treaty" with Palestinians. If it did, it would actually have to abide by international law and give back land. The Palestinians, being the weaker party, under occupation have everything to gain, including their freedom and dignity. So who's got a vested interest in making these sham negotiations work? The answer is obvious.
Wow, apparently even Holocaust survivors hate Israel AND Jews. Who would have thunk it?
Yeah, seeing as things are so rosy in Gaza, that's the only explanation one can come up with for the Gaza freedom march, those anti-Semites.
Obama had no problem discussing the economic situation, but somehow when asked about Gaza he used the old refrain that there's only one president at a time.
Then when his hypocrisy was pointed out to him, he claimed that there is a fundamental difference between matters of foreign policy and domestic issues.
I think we know where Obama stands on the issue given his "if my daughters were under constant threat of these rockets, I know what I would do" mantra.
In comparing news reports from CNN and the BBC, for example, I have noticed that while the BBC attempts to show the human side of the devastation and the logistical and social forces at play, CNN (perhaps inadvertently, I don't know) shows Haitians as violent, angry, having mob mentality and lacking in resourcefulness and organization.
While the BBC was giving Haitians, as a collective, a human face, CNN was busy turning the reportage into a reality show with tension, conflict and drama being the dominant themes.
A Palestinian friend of mine, who lives in a single family home, told me last year that when Israel attacked Gaza, his next door neighbor came to his house to ask if his family "back home" was safe.
So, judging by the scant coverage Gaza received in North America, and the average person's ability to still get news -- most likely online -- tells me that the mainstream media isn't playing the same key role it once did in disseminating information (read: Propaganda).
I think that's encouraging.
By all accounts, Hasbara notwithstanding, the partition plan was a crock. It was similar to Ehud Barak's "unprecedented" offer to Arafat at Camp David in 2000.
Privately owned Jewish land in 1947 amounted to about 5% of historical Palestine. If you look at the partition plan, you'll notice that Israel stood to gain more than 50% of historical Palestine from the UN partition while having never actually owned that land, legally. In light of that, it's quite astonishing that you're accusing "the Arabs" of rejecting the plan. Who wouldn't?
In reality, the 1948 war wasn't a loss at all for Israel. In fact, given that it resulted in Israel taking over land that wasn't within the boundaries of the "partition plan" and it allowed Israeli leadership to carry out the ethnic cleansing while claiming that unfortunate crimes were committed in "the fog of war", the war ended up benefiting Israel.
In 2008, Turkey was mediating between Israel and Syria over a possible peace treaty. Erdogan and his team spent valuable time and effort working behind the scenes trying to reach a breakthrough in the talks.
Then in late 2008, Olmert visited Turkey and spent eight hours in a one-on-one meeting with Erdogan. So, the Turks felt they had established mutual trust and understanding with the Israelis. According to news reports from various outlets across the Middle East and Europe, Erdogan had asked Olmert about Gaza. Erdogan wanted to know if Israel was planning some kind of operation in Gaza. But, Olmert said unequivocally that Israel had no plans to escalate the situation or attack Gaza. A week later, Olmert unleashed hell on the Gaza Strip.
So, I can understand Erdogan's indignation. This wasn't just a violation of international law on the part of Israel, or a matter of oppressing a weak minority. Instead, it became a personal matter when Israel insulted Erdogan and his government and violated the trust they thought they had.
Setting aside the discriminatory, apartheid, racist and fascist system that has been set up by Israel, the military and the colonists (why do people continue to call them "settlers"?), I'd like to focus a little on the disinformation and propaganda aspects of the situation in Hebron.
First, I have grown tired of hearing fellow Israelis who use banner statements like "we want peace" or "the [colonists] in Hebron need to be held accountable".
I have come to the conclusion that it all amounts to empty rhetoric. If most Israelis, as they claim, are concerned about what is happening in Hebron and the rest of the occupied territories, then they should do something about it. Instead, they pay lip service so as to retain their credibility and appear morally just.
Second, there is no argument whether Jews have a right to visit holy places in Hebron. They do, just like any other religious group.
Three, in the 1990s there were no Jews in Hebron –at least none of which I’m aware. In a city of more than 150,000 Palestinian Christians and Muslims, a few colonists moved in by force in the 1990s and have been taking over neighborhood after neighborhood, harassing and attacking the local Palestinian population. In other words, this is no different than other land grab projects throughout the occupied territories. This colonial expansion is part of the greater issue of this 40+ year old military occupation. And whoever attempts to cover up this reality by invoking "religious freedom" either does not know the history or is simply on the side of the morally bankrupt Israeli leadership, soldiers and the colonists.
Bluntly put, these colonists have no business whatsoever in Hebron. If Jews legally purchased property there, I don’t why the Palestinians would object, I know they won't object.
Now, if these colonists want to justify their actions by claiming that Jews lived in Hebron 2000 years ago, then I'd like to see the deeds to the land. And, I'd like to see the homes and land that was taken by force or stolen from Palestinians in 1948 and 1967 restored to the Palestinians. What’s fair is fair.
Finally, it's important to remember that the same tactics of harassment, persecution and oppression, used both by the colonists and Israeli forces in Hebron, are the same tactics used in East Jerusalem to drive out Palestinians from their homes, both within the historical walls of the Old City and outside them in neighborhoods like Sheik Jarrah, for example.
Here's is my post exactly as it appeard: (emphasis mine. I think lol).
Interestingly enough, the English version of the article makes no mention of the fact that the synagogue was used as a “Hagana post/position”. It only states that it was used as a “shelter from Arab rioters” (How benign. It was just a “shelter”).
Furthermore, the headline of the English version makes the reader think that the cache was left there by British Mandate forces. But, the Hebrew headline clearly states that it was a Hagana weapons cache during the founding of the state.
Last year, a curator in (Hod Ha-Sharon) Israel found a weapons cache under the subfloor of a synagogue. According to the curator, those weapons and ammunition were stored there in 1948 when the Synagogue was used as a Jewish Hagana post/position.
Interestingly enough, the English version of the article makes no mention of the fact that the synagogue was used as a "Hagana post/position". It only states that it was used as a "shelter from Arab rioters" (How benign. It was just a "shelter").
Furthermore, the headline of the English version makes the reader think that the cache was left there by British Mandate forces. But, the Hebrew headline clearly states that it was a Hagana weapons cache during the founding of the state.
As one can see, Israel has a tendency to project. Israeli leaders usually assume that the "enemy" is doing what the Israelis have done.
Hebrew version: link to haaretz.com
English version: link to haaretz.com
Plus there are no comments posted. It looks like the JPost thought the subject was too controversial to allow for an open debate to take place.
I mean, most rabid Zionists have this reflex instinct of squelching those who are critical of Israel. But, it gets kind of messy when the person criticizing Israel is a holocaust survivor.
Although, over the years, I have seen how such Zionists deal with situations like this, they try to claim that the holocaust survivor is "naive", or that "times have changed". Whatever the justification, it usually doesn't stand up to 20 seconds of scrutiny.
US media, the film industry, newspapers, radio and magazines have always been pro-Israels, anti-Palestinian (anti-Arab). If it's not the political aspect they obfuscate, then it's cultural racism. For example, Israelis will be portrayed as technologically advanced, smart, scientists, fun and warm people, while the Arabs are portrayed as backward, angry, loud, goat herders who use donkeys for transportation. It's all part of a bigoted caricature that seeks to dehumanize "Them", while endearing "Israel" to mainstream America.
A few months ago I was flipping through the channels when I came across an episode of NCIS I think. The investigative team in the plot had finally caught up with a guy who kidnapped some arms dealer they were looking for and "extracted" information from him. So this team held the kidnapper guy at gun point, when he gave his name and told them he was with the Mossad, they lowered their guns. He then proceeded to lecture them on the entire criminal enterprise he had been tracking. One of the US agents flew to Tel-Aviv to get briefed by Mossad on what they have on these arms dealers.
They don't even try to be subtle anymore. So the message one is supposed to take away from this, is that it's OK for foreign agents to operate within the US, illegally, because they're "on our side" (and they are Israeli).
True. Like all groups, they do come in "all shapes and sizes". But, Shmuel, wasn't Lieberman's main voting bloc the 20 - 35 old Soviet immigrant demographic?
I could be wrong, but as far as I remember, the statistics I saw after the election on Ha'aretz showed most of Lieberman's support came from that demographic, especially the young generation.
Many European carriers do, actually. I flew with Air France once. It's certainly not an obscure destination. By the way, El-Al are known for their high prices.
How come a person with his "political beliefs" flies with El-Al?
One would think he would be boycotting that company, given its long history of discriminating against Palestinians and Arabs in general.
Who knows, Witty. Perhaps you're right. For all we know, Israel sent those ...how many were they, three, four? ... "rescuers" as a way of making up for its discrimination and racism against the Ethiopians in Israel. I mean "they all look the same, they're all black", right?
Yes, now that I verbalized it, I think it's true. Israel sent them to Haiti as a way of asking for forgiveness from "them black folk", the Ethiopians. Yup.
I think his post is illustrative of the very behavior criticized by Mr. Ratner in his article about his visit to Yad Vashem and Israel's cynical use of a tragedy to advance its own political agenda.
Witty, doesn't seem to care about anything Jewish, about Jews or Semites or Israelis. He cares and subscribes to an ideology that puts everyone who opposes it on a collision course with him. Reality and morality be damned. Much in the same way a fanatic would view any given religious dogma. Perhaps Witty ought to get in touch with a radical rabbi in Yeme...errr I mean Kiryat Arba' who'll teach him a bastardized version of "Judaism" masquerading as some noble ideology.
Witty trying to score a few morality points comes across as contrived and somewhat trite.
The Israeli government always sends a dozen or two "rescuers" to disaster areas outside the Middle East. It's great PR. Always remember, it's not important WHAT you do, but what people THINK you do. That's why many workers often "look busy" when the boss comes around.
Meanwhile, a rescue K9's twin is unleashed to attack elderly Palestinian women and their children.
I hope you won't force me to stoop to your level again, Witty. It makes me feel icky. Alas the point had to be made.
Oh and by the way, if you're looking for some redeeming characteristic in Israel or Israelis, then look to the very Israeli people who are fighting for universal justice in Israel and Palestine, instead of acting as an Israeli government spokesperson.
Given the inconsistencies in the government's case during the prosecution of Sirhan Sirhan, and coupled with the mountain of questions about the incident which remain unanswered, I'm not sure bringing RFK's assassination into this discourse is fair.
Americans need to change the two party system.
In 1948 Albert Einstein along with several Jewish intellectuals sent a letter to the editor at the New York Times.
Here is the text of that letter:
link to physics.harvard.edu
I don't know if many here know this fact, but the trees were planted there as part of Israel's policy to expand so-called "public" parks in yet another attempt to contain the Palestinian population of Israel.
Incidentally, just next to Umm Al-Fahem there is currently a "park" that Israel is using to remove several neighborhoods on the outskirts of the town/city.
The US State Department published a report in 2009 about religious freedom in Israel and the occupied territories of the West Bank and Gaza.
Here is that report:
link to state.gov
Indeed.
It is also taking place in northern Israel where so-called regional councils of Jewish towns have taken over swaths of land from nearby Arab villages.
In other words, the lands of 4 or 5 different villages are often taken over by one regional municipal Jewish council at which point those villages are prohibited from using that land for either construction or farming. One example that comes to mind is the Upper Galilee Regional Council.
As a consequence, the Arab (Palestinian) population gets pushed and squeezed into smaller and smaller enclaves.
Based on the fact that an entire new neighborhood has sprung up where I currently live in Toronto while Google Maps and Google Earth still show trees and grass, it's a safe bet that what you're seeing on Google Maps is at least 3 years old.
Posts like Emily Hauser's prove once again the apocryphal argument for a "Jewish homeland" in Palestine, a connection that is based on theological foundations.
Emily, what right, does an American born Jew have to land, any land, between the Jordan river and the sea?
If "narrative" is all that is needed for one to establish ownership, nay, an inalienable connection to a land, can't I claim ownership of YOUR house based on the narrative that asserts that the architectural design was originally conceived by my -- lets say -- French ancestors?
If Pascal's Triangle is not good enough an analogy, how about the Babylonian use of the Square. If I were Babylonian, could I not establish a narrative based on the square, hence justifying my claim over your house? Am I exaggerating? I don't see why. My argument is as tenuous as the theological argument. In addition, there are millions of mathematicians and architects around the globe who can substantiate my claim.
Yet, here we are, justifying violations of international law, basic human rights and the subjugation and dehumanization of an entire indigenous population based merely on some religious doctrine that was passed down from one generation to the next.
I honestly do not understand the outrage.
A few years ago, Columbia University invited the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to speak at their campus. Ahmadinejad was and continues to be accused of denying the Holocaust and threatening to "wipe Israel off the map". Despite evidence dispelling these accusations, he continues to be stigmatized in the US and in Israel. Mind you, he did not carry out the Holocaust, nor did he "wipe Israel off the map".
Yet, Ehud Olmert who has killed thousands of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians as the commander and leader of the Israeli military establishment is being shielded from criticism and encouraged to speak in front of an academic forum for the sake of "open mindedness" and "freedom of speech".
It seems we are being led to believe that speech is more dangerous than actions.
I don't know about you, but if I were forced to choose, I'd rather be called names, than suffer a blow to the head or abdomen.
Well, at least he's not demanding from some adoptive empire to guarantee him money and weapons for the next decade, while his own agents blackmail an entire congress into looking the other way and ignoring human rights violations.
Better yet, he does not use his own 60 year-old victimhood for political leverage when demanding reparations from Belgium in 2008, after it criticized him for those thousands of unexploded cluster bombs, munitions and mines left from his invasion of Lebanon in 2006.
But you already knew that.
By the way, your desperate attempt at tarring Human Rights Watch's image speaks volumes and tells all everything they need to know about you.
Based on his stance on the Israeli Palestinian issue, it's obvious that he remains in possession of his faculties and moral compass.
Any sense how you are doing, however?
You're going to have to explain your implied assumptions there. I'm not sure where you're going with this.
What does "renounce violence" mean, anyway?
If Israel invokes self-defense to justify the slaughter of hundreds or thousands of Palestinian civilians, why can't Hamas use rockets for "self-defense"?
What is certain, is that the Goldstone Report, along with countless testimony collected by B'tselem and Yesh Din, Israeli forces targeted civilians during the 2008/09 attack on Gaza. Palestinian civilians carrying white flags were targeted, too.
So, as an occupying force, when will Israel withdraw from the land that does not belong to it, and when will Israel renounce violence? At the very least, since Hamas was not the one to violate the 2008 ceasefire, Israel could have ended the siege.
In addition, if the occupation and siege can be excused as a security measure that which Israel uses to protect itself, then that theory false apart when one considers that between 1967 (when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza) and until 1988 (when the Intifada started) the Palestinians were using peaceful, non-violent means to resist the occupation. In fact, during that period, it was Israel who was inflicting physical violence against the Palestinians, and yet the Palestinians did not take the bait. In other words, when the Palestinians are not using "violence" against Israel or Israelis, the Israeli authorities seek to provoke the Palestinians time and again, so when the Palestinians do respond, the Israeli hasbara machine can proclaim to the world: "look at those violent Palestinians".
Let's break it down.
On the one hand there is Israel using collective punishment against 1.5 million people (illegal under international law), all locked in an open air prison for years now (illegal under international law), shelling, bombing and killing civilians at will (illegal under international law), kidnapping teenagers, men and women and throwing them in undisclosed locations (again, illegal under international law), the Israeli navy shoots at Gaza's fishermen, even when they are within Gaza's territorial waters (illegal under international law) and on the other hand there is Hamas, firing bottle rockets into Israel (that too is illegal under international law).
Israel has killed more than 1400 Palestinians in 22 days. More than 5,500 were injured, many with permanent lasting disabilities. Yet, over a period of eight years, less than 25 Israelis were killed by Hamas' rockets.
Again, I have yet to figure into that equation the property damage inflicted on Gaza under Israel's F16 sorties, as bakeries, factories, water treatment facilities were destroyed to the ground
Thus after comparing and contrasting each party's violations, it becomes glaringly obvious that Israel is the one that should "renounce violence". I wonder how you are able to ignore all those violations on Israel's part, and pretend as though the Palestinians are the offending party. As you can see, I didn't even address the violations in the West Bank where Israel continues to use state terror against a civilian population while stealing that population's land and water.
Finally, it would do you some good to read many of the articles on this blog instead of posting hasbara talking points.
They must be pressured by the international community to end the Occupation, and eventually, all forms of discrimination.
I firmly believe that the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement will bring the necessary pressure to bear on Israel.
Your comment summarizes the predicament in which Zionism is found today. Well put. I think in the long run so-called liberal Zionists will have to come to terms with the discriminatory policies within the Green Line, Israel's inability to sustain such policies and the so-called "demographic bomb", even if and when the military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza ends.
That is to say that for Israel to survive in the long term, as a democratic state (not an exclusively Jewish state), Zionism will have to be relegated to the annals of history.
It seems to me that the debate being advanced by many opponents of the one state solution is merely a stalling tactic. It is similar to the 'interim negotiations' tactic which seeks to postpone the inevitable and prolong the so-called peace process, providing Israel with ample time to create facts on the ground.
In the last few years, the Israeli government has been intent on tightening the noose on the West Bank and Gaza to the breaking point hoping for a third Intifada and then, perhaps, justifying the Transfer of Palestinians across the Jordan river. Case in point is East Jerusalem where entire neighborhoods have been evacuated of their Palestinian residents.
The land grab is not confined to East Jerusalem, or West Jerusalem or even to one or two colonies in the West Bank. It is in fact taking place in northern Israel too, in the Galilee, albeit at a slower pace.
If current trends are any indication, then the future doesn't bode well, for Israel seems reluctant to adopt either solution, neither the two state solution nor the one state solution. That is not on the Israeli government's agenda because those two solutions are viewed as lose-lose solutions from the Israeli perspective.
It is hard to imagine any visionary within Israel ascending to power anytime soon and making such a decision that requires moral courage.
Not to sound like a broken record, but again, Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions will be the only way to -- not only bring about a non-violent solution -- but the only way so-called liberal Zionists can truly save Israel from itself.
This is a very moving report by Alice. As always, it is spot on. The sad fact is that this specific village and what happened to the Palestinian families there in 1947-48 is a small sample of the larger displacement, razing of villages and ethnic cleansing that took place then and continues to this day.
I'm in full agreement with Professor Shenhav. Until Israel acknowledges the transgressions and the injustice done to the Palestinians in 1948, the so-called 'conflict' will go on. For that to happen Israel will need to undergo a paradigm shift by first defining for itself where it sees itself in the next 20 or 30 years and then working toward achieving that goal. At the moment, Israeli leaders are intent on removing Palestinians from the land, instead of working toward a peaceful solution, a just solution.
qwerty