Trending Topics:

‘Haaretz’ columnist gets to talk about dual loyalty and Israel dragging US into war

Israel/Palestine
on 75 Comments

Would this ever be in the New York Times? Chemi Shalev in Haaretz on the Jerusalem moment at the Democratic National Convention:

But beyond the question of the forthcoming elections, there is the need to evaluate the long-term damage caused to Israel from  Israel’s positioning in the election campaign and the unacceptable volume which it occupies therein. That volume of attention has been steadily increasing since the beginning of the Republican primaries in  January, as if it were equivalent to double the importance of  China plus India and Russia, or perhaps California and New York rolled into one. 

It is difficult to tell just what do Americans themselves think when they see their candidates swear allegiance to Israel as if it were part and parcel of the national anthem and flag.  What do they think of the situation where every single deviation from blind support for the Israeli government’s positions is considered heresy and treason? It may be a reasonable position for impassioned Christians and loyal Jews. But most Americans are neither, and in their inner hearts they may just wonder about that distant country’s source of power, that can cast such a giant pall on US politics and which could also drag their country into a war which they do not want to fight.

Oh they get to talk about it in Canada too. Tony Burman in the Star. Commenting on the Canadian government’s expulsion of Iranian embassy officials:

Although his swearing-in at Rideau Hall must have happened in the dead of night, Canada appears to have a new foreign minister. His name is Benjamin Netanyahu. His day job may be prime minister of Israel, but Canada’s abrupt actions against Iran seem to confirm that the Harper government’s outsourcing of Canada’s Middle East policy to Jerusalem is now complete.

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

75 Responses

  1. Walid
    Walid
    September 8, 2012, 1:42 pm

    Because of its neutrality, Canada was the most respected country on the international scene for decades. Too much religion makes people do strange things like this shutting out the Iranians that’s being done by Canada’s politicians.

  2. NCINA
    NCINA
    September 8, 2012, 3:22 pm

    This piece is hilarious. Name a single war which the US as fought shoulder to shoulder with Israel in? Its been the US and Europe for their own interests that have helped Muslims in: Somalia, Balkans, Kuwait/Gulf War One, Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel goes it alone and took out the Iraqi nuclear facility in Oserik, a facility that European countries gave ‘yellow cake.’

    Have you forgotten the US arms the worlds worst regimes and enemies of Israel: Saudi Arabia a record $60 billion, arms and trains Fatah security forces and the dictator of Egypt as will as giving the Islamist government billions?

    It would be wonderful if Americans, Europeans kept their noses out of the Middle East – enough damage has been done!

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704621204575488361149625050.html
    http://www.wnd.com/2006/11/38649/

    • annie
      annie
      September 8, 2012, 6:56 pm

      ncina, so what do you make of these headlines?

      http://mondoweiss.net/2012/08/israel-demands-statement-from-obama-about-iran-attack-by-yom-kippur.html

      do you think the reporter is lying?

      • NCINA
        NCINA
        September 8, 2012, 7:47 pm

        I read theoriginal source and it appears to be a lot of hearsay/speculation. I’m more inclined to check multiple sources and check research the people behind the story. I’ll reserve judgement to the integrity and accuracy of the ‘information.’

      • annie
        annie
        September 8, 2012, 9:01 pm

        hearsay speculation? so it’s merely a coincidence the talking heads are going on about it:

        http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/washington-post-says-netanyahu-should-lead-u-s-on-iran-policy.html wapo:

        In the past week Mr. Netanyahu has hinted at how the U.S.-Israeli difference could be overcome: through a clear public statement by Mr. Obama of a willingness to take military action if Iran crosses certain “red lines” in its nuclear program. Israel has been seeking such a declaration for some time, but Mr. Obama has limited himself to saying that his policy is to prevent Iran from obtaining a weapon and that “all options are on the table.”

        there’s a lot more where that comes from.

        http://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-set-to-assure-israel-that-if-all-else-fails-us-will-attack-iran-by-june-2013-tv-report/

        American and Israeli officials are working to arrange a meeting between US President Barack Obama and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at which the White House will assure Israel that the US will use force to stop Iran’s nuclear weapons drive by next June at the latest if the Islamic Republic has not halted its program by then, Israel’s Channel 10 news reported on Tuesday night….

        The key formulation being discussed for Obama to assure Netanyahu is that the US “will attack Iran by June 2013″ if the Iranian nuclear weapons drive has not halted by then, the report said.

      • annie
        annie
        September 8, 2012, 9:11 pm

        I read the original source and it appears to be a lot of hearsay/speculation.

        are you doubting the translation? or merely claiming in your opinion the publication Maariv bases its reports on hearsay/speculation and is not reliable.

        http://forward.com/articles/162155/obama-considers-triggers-to-pressure-iran/

        Some of Obama’s advisers think Israel requires a public commitment by Washington to hold a military strike on Iran, said the report. On the other hand, other advisers argue that Israel is trying to corner Obama to make such a commitment when it is really not needed.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/world/middleeast/us-is-weighing-new-curbs-on-iran-in-nod-to-israel.html?_r=2&hp

        The question of how explicit Mr. Obama’s warnings to Iran should be is still a subject of internal debate, closely tied to election-year politics……. senior officials have argued that Israel is trying to corner Mr. Obama into a military commitmentthat he does not yet need to make.

        On Sunday, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu appeared to criticize Mr. Obama for being too vague about how far Iran can go. “The international community is not setting Iran a clear red line, and Iran does not see international determination to stop its nuclear project,” he told his cabinet. “Until Iran sees a clear red line and such determination, it will not stop the progress of its nuclear project — and Iran must not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.”

        just hearsay? i suppose you’ll be convinced when netanyahu makes a public announcement he is pressuring obama for a commitment. lol

      • American
        American
        September 9, 2012, 12:16 am

        @ annie

        Please don’t feed the NCINA troll. This guy is so stupid that on another thread he claimed the 3 billion in US aid to Israel every year is ‘loans” that Israel pays back.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        September 9, 2012, 4:17 pm

        @ American
        Maybe NCINA is thinking of the additional $ billion we give to Israel yearly in loan guarantees so Israel gets to buy stuff on cheap credit? We underwrite Israeli debt–even though our credit rating is lower than Israel’s.

      • NCINA
        NCINA
        September 9, 2012, 5:04 pm

        Thanks I re-read both articles linked. It does seem to appear Israel is looking for US assurances before it attacks.

        Both men know the value of Stait of Hurmuz – the US needs the oil, if Israel attacks it will inevitably be affected which will cause knock-on effects detrimental to Israel regarding their “relationship.”

        In my mind its critical for both countries and the West, just for very different reasons. Nethanyahu is trying to corner Obama and commit him to show some ‘red lines’ because its the US election and to see whether Romney will better any statement.

        Last couple of points: I’ll be convinced when Iran stops the program which will not happen by way of words. So in that respect it can be reasonably viewed as politically cornering Obama.

        The translation was fine as well as the links, I appreciate it.

      • annie
        annie
        September 10, 2012, 3:00 pm

        you’re welcome. i suppose it’s not really something that can be kept under wraps anymore anyway. cat is definitely out of the bag

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-us-at-odds-over-red-line-for-iran/2012/09/10/bcff96c4-fb4a-11e1-b153-218509a954e1_story.html

        Netanyahu reiterated that demand Sunday…The call appeared to be rebuffed by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, who when asked whether Washington would lay out such “red lines” or spell out the consequences for Iran of failing to reach agreement with world powers by a certain date, replied: “We’re not setting deadlines.”

        …….

        Netanyahu has repeated his demand for an ultimatum to Iran several times in recent days

        so, care to revise your earlier comment?

        It would be wonderful if Americans, Europeans kept their noses out of the Middle East – enough damage has been done!

        because i would like nothing better than the US keeping their nose, and their pocketbook OUT of the ME. but you don’t really think israel could do what it does on its own do you? if it could netanyahu would not be screwing with our election and making demands of our prez and pressing the US to fight its wars for it.

        and naturally our compliant press just laps it up. i am so over this relationship. we get nothing but disrespect from israel and complicity in their crimes. nothing.

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 10, 2012, 4:04 pm

        Annie Robbins says: “…and naturally our compliant press just laps it up. i am so over this relationship. we get nothing but disrespect from israel and complicity in their crimes. nothing.”

        Well, we get the profound satisfaction of knowing we have made an otherwise unrealizable dream of racist dispossession and oppression possible.

        Isn’t that worth something?

    • eljay
      eljay
      September 8, 2012, 11:17 pm

      >> It would be wonderful if Americans, Europeans kept their noses out of the Middle East – enough damage has been done!

      It’d be pretty wonderful if Zio-supremacists kept their noses out of there, too. But they didn’t, they don’t and they probably won’t, regardless of how much damage they have done and continue to do.

    • arpdjp
      arpdjp
      September 9, 2012, 12:11 pm

      I agree with your statement that the U.S. should keep “their noses out of the Middle East”, but disagree with your assessment of U.S. / Israeli connections. Take a look at the Obama administration’s cabinet. Now, count how many of them are Israeli dual-citizens. And these dual-citizens are not only Israeli, they are zionists (a huge difference). Anyone who is awake and aware knows that American politics are literally owned by Israel, as are the corporations, mainstream media, and Hollywood.

      Where did we have Patriot missiles based at, during the original Gulf War, in the 1990’s? Israel! Who is counting on America to save them from the nasty Iranians whom, just about all sources, both intelligence and IAEA, say that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon, or in the process of building one. As a matter of fact, Iran has cut down on their plutonium enrichment. As a matter of fact, Israel and Iran are TRADING PARTNERS!! But Israel is now stating that they cannot go after Iran alone (they shouldn’t be going after them at all), and that America needs to use nukes to take them down. In other words, drag us into their contrived problem. Nevermind the fact that Israel currently possesses over 200 nuclear missiles, and has not signed the NPT! And lest we forget, an attack on Iran, by America, is likely to spark WWIII!

      Yes, Israel DOES dictate U.S. foreign policy, and anyone who would deny it, has their head in a hole!! So again, I agree with your one point, 100% — “It would be wonderful if Americans, Europeans kept their noses out of the Middle East – enough damage has been done!”

      Enough is enough!! Iran is not a threat to the U.S., and our Constitution demands that we do not partake in offensive wars. War should ALWAYS be the very last option, and I will take it a little further, war is insanity and shouldn’t be partaken of by anyone. If the people of a nation refuse to take part in an offensive war of aggression, then there will be no more war. American troops are supposed to DEFEND the U.S., not conduct offensive wars of aggression. War is, quite simply, INSANITY!! Governments are the problem, not the people. If governments can’t get along, then they need a mediator. If they still want to duke it out, let our government officials go to war, personally, and put their lives on the line for THEIR causes, and leave the citizens out of it.

      • NCINA
        NCINA
        September 9, 2012, 5:16 pm

        “Now, count how many of them are Israeli dual-citizens. And these dual-citizens are not only Israeli, they are zionists (a huge difference). Anyone who is awake and aware knows that American politics are literally owned by Israel, as are the corporations, mainstream media, and Hollywood.” – I would really welcome by way of facts and figures how many Americans hold dual nationality, if their dual nationality is questioned and why people that support Israels right of self determination (rather than hiding behind “Zionist” – as if its monolithic) can’t be loyal citizens.

        I’m proud that Jewish people have made successes of themselves, if they were as unsuccessful as some other racial, ethnic, religious groups the masses would still complain. As for the myth of owning banks and the media – the evidence and facts don’t support that.

        Top ten Banks as of 2011:

        1. Citibank (Citigroup); Top Stock owner FMR LLC (Fidelity Investments), 114,721,008 shares. FMR LLC founder Edward Johnson II, Key people: Edward Johnson, III (Chairman & CEO), Abigail Johnson (President, Fidelity Personal Workplace and Institutional Services), Kathleen Murphy (President, Fidelity Personal Investing). Johnson surname is not a Jewish surname, but is of Norman (English) origin, which arose in England with the Norman conquest. (sources Yahoo Finance and http://www.houseofnames.com/johnson-family-crest)

        2. JP Morgan Chase; Top Stock owner: STATE STREET CORPORATION at 155,008,429 shares: Jay Hooley (President and CEO), of SSC. The Hooley surname is English in origin. http://www.houseofnames.com/hooley-family-crest

        3. HBC Bank; Top stock owner: FMR LLC (Fidelity Investments) at 12,709,655 shares. See Johnson family above.

        4. Bank of America; Top stock owner: STATE STREET CORPORATION at 455,747,401 shares. See Jay Hooley above.

        5. Credit Agricole Group; French bank not listed on Yahoo Finance.

        6. Royal Bank of Scotland: “The Royal Bank of Scotland Group (LSE: RBS) is a British banking and insurance holding company in which the UK Government (HM Treasury) holds an 84% stake.[2]” sources wiki, and “London Stock Exchange – RBS agrees key terms of Asset Protection Scheme, 3 November 2009”.

        7. Mitsubishi Tokyo Financial Group; Top stock owners: FISHER INVESTMENTS, INC. at 41,007,509 shares. Owner and CEO of FI is Kenneth L. Fisher. Fisher is an Old English spelling of Fischer, which has it’s roots in England after the Norman Conquest. http://www.houseofnames.com/fisher-family-crest

        8. Mizuho Financial Group; Top stock owner: BRANDES INVESTMENT PARTNERS L.P. at 25,298,600; stock owner: Charles H. Brandes. Brandes surname is Germanic in origin. http://www.houseofnames.com/brandes-family-crest

        9. HBOS; owned by the Lloyds Banking Group; largest stock owner of Lloyds: CITIGROUP INC. at 8,354,258 shares. See above on Citigroup.

        10. BNP Paribas; Top stock owners: Due to this French based company being a S.A. company public info on stock ownership is unavailable.

        Top Banks list, source http://www.therichest.org/business/richest-banks-in-the-world-2011/.

        So we can see that the Anglos and other people of European ancestry dominates the banking system, and certainly not the Jews or Zionists. Now lets turn our attention to the “Zionist controls the media” claim.

        1. Walt Disney; top stock owner: FMR LLC (Fidelity Investments) at 75,296,433 shares. Aha! So we find the Johnson family popping up again. Also the number 2 largest stockholder is State Street, which has Jay Hooley as CEO. See above for information on both.

        2. News Corporation; top stock owner: Capital Research Global Investors, CEO David I. Fisher, Chairman. Another Fisher surname. See above about the Fisher surname. Also, I want to point out that the claim that Rupert Murdoch is Jewish is false, and no, his mother Mrs. Greene is not Jewish…they are of Irish descent.

        3. Time Warner; top stock owner: DODGE & COX INC at 55,835,352 shares. This institution is also the second largest stock holder of News Corp. John Gunn is both Chairman and CEO of D&C. The Gunn surname has it’s origins with the Viking settlers of Scotland. http://www.houseofnames.com/gunn-family-crest

        4. CBS Corporation; top stock owner: WADDELL & REED FINANCIAL INC. at 44,852,020 shares (JP Morgan Chase is the second largest stock owner, see above about JP). Guess who’s the top stock owner of W&RF? FMR LLC!! Back to the Johnson family yet again!

        5. Viacom; top stock owner: MFC (Manulife Financial) Global Investment Management (U.S.), LLC at 3,245,945 shares. Donald Guloien, President and Chief Executive Officer
        Gail C.A. Cook-Bennett, Chair of the Board of Directors. Don’t know of any Jews with the surname Guloien, which appear to be a variant spelling of Gullyen. Bennett: “Bennett is an English and Irish language surname derived from the medieval given name Benedict (Latin, Benedictus, “blessed”). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bennett_%28name%29

        6. NBCUniversal; subsidiary of General Electric and Comcast; top stock owner of GE: VANGUARD GROUP, INC. at 412,335,282 shares (FMR LLC and STATE STREET are also on the list…again.). William McNabb, President, John J. Brennan, Chairman
        John C. Bogle, Founder. McNabb surname is of Scottish origin http://www.houseofnames.com/mcnabb-family-crest. Brennan, is of Irish origin http://www.houseofnames.com/Brennan-history?A=54323-292. Bogle, is of German and Scottish origin http://www.houseofnames.com/Bogle-history?A=54323-292

        7. BBC; public service broadcaster, based in the UK, and led by Lord Patten of Barnes
        (Chairman, BBC Trust), Mark Thompson ,(Director-General). The Barnes surname arose in England during the Norman conquest http://www.houseofnames.com/barnes-family-crest. The Thompson surname is Scottish in origin http://www.houseofnames.com/Thompson+-family-crest.

        8. Reuters; owner: Thomson Corp. David Thomson, Shirley Thomson Chairman. The Thomas surname is also Scottish in origin. http://www.houseofnames.com/Thomson-history?A=54323-292

        So there you have it folks. People mostly of Scottish, Irish, Germanic, and English ancestry dominates ownership of the Media and Banking sectors. So the correct claim is that there are many Jewish employees in both sectors…not owners. Those who promote the myth of Jewish ownership of both sectors, really need to do their homework.

        As for your “constitution” – I’m afraid I know little about it. I do know that the US invaded sovereign Grenada, changed democratically elected governments in South America, was caught spying on five friendly countries, sold arms to Iran, along with the British deposed a democratically elected Iranian leader, armed genocidal Saddam, arms the regions worst regimes: Egypt, Saudi Fatah, drags other nations sons and daughters into its wars in the Middle East – GW1, Iraq, Somalia, Balkans, Afghanistan, Libya – helping Muslims not Israel, made an unstable region worse, then dictate to a sovereign nation what it should do.
        Do you know or wonder why many people HATE the US and the hypocrisy, double-standards of many of its citizens??

      • arpdjp
        arpdjp
        September 10, 2012, 5:14 pm

        Isn’t it strange how you skipped over my initial statement:

        “Take a look at the Obama administration’s cabinet. Now, count how many of them are Israeli dual-citizens.”

        Lets name a few:

        Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
        Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
        Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
        Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
        Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
        National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
        Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
        White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
        Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
        Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
        U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
        UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
        Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
        Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
        Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
        Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
        Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
        White House Political Director – Ken Melman
        National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
        Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
        National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
        President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
        Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
        Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
        White House Speechwriter – David Frum
        White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
        Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
        Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
        Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis

        Source: http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 10, 2012, 4:13 pm

        arpdjp says: “… Take a look at the Obama administration’s cabinet. Now, count how many of them are Israeli dual-citizens…”

        Now this is just silliness. Here’s what appears to be a current list of the members of Obama’s cabinet. There are fifteen:

        Hillary Clinton, Timothy Geithner, Leon Panetta, Eric Holder, Ken Salazar, Tom Vilsack, Rebecca Blank, Hilda Solis, Kathleen Sebelius, Shaun Donovan, Ray LaHood, Steven Chu, Arne Duncan, Eric Shinseki, Janet Napolitano.

        Which of these holds Israeli citizenship? Does even one?

        I’m all for attacks on Israel and the Israel lobby. But silly and insupportable innuendos don’t accomplish anything.

    • Cliff
      Cliff
      September 9, 2012, 2:11 pm

      Israel armed apartheid SA as well as traded in nuclear tech and provided paramilitary training to genocidal Latin American dictatorships when the US congress forbid (on paper) the US government from doing so.

      The notion that the US ‘arms’ Israel’s worst enemies in a vindictive context is laughable. Countries like the US and Israel have no morals. They only have interests.

      Just like the various PR stunts and self-promotion by Zionist Jews in powerful Western power positions (media, government, education, etc. I.e. infrastructure) – its all a strategy.

      Israel has nurtured terrorist organizations, like early Hamas, and supplied arms and training to war crimes committing genocidal dictatorships during periods of intense conflict in parts of the world where they have zero relevance, so why don’t you eat your own words Ms. Mother-of-two ZioBot.

      You people get worse and worse at your hasbara. Fail harder troll.

      And [email protected] ‘enough White guilt’ line from your biography page. A racist Zionist troll who is no doubt a White European Jew or Christian culturally-speaking and poses as a devout atheist (with a lowercase ‘a’ yet supports a Jewish ethno-religious colonial settler State in the middle of Arab/Islamic world) will of course want minorities to be ‘saved’ while simultaneously absolving ‘themselves’ (meaning the Elite class, in this case American Zionist Jews and the WASPs and their Euro-whatever counterparts) of any guilt/responsibility.

      Go watch Tears of the Sun with Bruce Willis or some Kirk Cameron eschatological slap-stick you dime-a-dozen fascist.

      • NCINA
        NCINA
        September 9, 2012, 5:58 pm

        Its a fact that the US arms the world’s worst human rights abusers, not an opinion. Case(s) Saudi Arabia to a record tune of $60 billion, the US even armed the genocidal Saddam Hussein that used WMD’s on the poor Kurdish people when he was their best friend.

        For the purposes of this conversation lets say a huge “YES” Israel traded with Apartheid South Africa, did it break any international laws and didn’t other countries in Europe and the US do the same?

        “Just like the various PR stunts and self-promotion by Zionist Jews in powerful Western power positions (media, government, education, etc. I.e. infrastructure) – its all a strategy.” – proof, where is this “joooowish” conspiracy? Again I’m glad that Jewish people have the opportunity to excel rather than fall into the gutter like some groups one can mention.

        “Israel has nurtured terrorist organizations, like early Hamas, and supplied arms and training to war crimes committing genocidal dictatorships during periods of intense conflict in parts of the world where they have zero relevance, so why don’t you eat your own words Ms. Mother-of-two ZioBot.” – Iran revolutionary guards arm, fund and train Hamas – 10,000 rockets, 500% increases after withdrawal from Gaza and missiles even today is not nutering by any stretch of the imagination. I’m not going to justify every Israel action or policy. That is absurd and unreasonable. Do grow a brain.

        “A racist Zionist troll who is no doubt a White European Jew or Christian culturally-speaking and poses as a devout atheist (with a lowercase ‘a’ yet supports a Jewish ethno-religious colonial settler State in the middle of Arab/Islamic world) will of course want minorities to be ‘saved’ while simultaneously absolving ‘themselves’ (meaning the Elite class, in this case American Zionist Jews and the WASPs and their Euro-whatever counterparts) of any guilt/responsibility.” – I’m a mixed Semite that hates all religion especially Islam/Islamism. I make no secret of my hatred of the Abrahamic faiths.

        Pick up a dictionary and history book there was no “colonialism” in Israel. Jewish people have been in that land for in excess of 3500 years continuously to a greater or lesser extent. The Turks had the land – they aren’t Arabs, the British certainly aren’t and the Jews (most being Semitic) got the land back. Land changes hands in case you haven’t realised.

        I rarely watch American films, some of us polyglots have a too much self-respect and culture, the cultural ignorance to assume people actually want to damage their brain cells consuming culturally bankrupt American drivel.

        The rest of your inane projection really doesn’t warrant a response. People choose causes for all sorts of reasons. Mine motives are based on interest and my personal morality, not what you think my motives are.

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        September 10, 2012, 6:47 pm

        NCINA-” have the opportunity to excel rather than fall into the gutter like some groups one can mention”
        The long gaps between Egyptian and Persian ,between Moor Spain and Poland-Germany, the short gap Germany and US should make you think of those years Jewish people spent in the gutter.

        On example of the “excel” is how Pearle brought Wolfowitz who brought Feith who brought Abrams or the otherway round and the circle keep on enlarging . The promiose made by Clintons or Bush Jr or By obama adminsitartion or forced to make promises to AIPAC /JINSA to have same rogue double agents, have ex felons or some one worse than those back to administration. Just ask Saban or Adelson to begin with.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      September 9, 2012, 4:06 pm

      The US arms sales accounted for 78% of all arms sales in the world in 2011. http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-deals-boosted-us-arms-sales-record-66-173259264–finance.html

      Biggest chunk of it went to Saudi Arabia. Big business, to say the least. No matter what weapons the US SELLS to ME countries, the US always makes sure any of those weapons are inferior to what the US GIVES Israel. US taxpayers borrow from China to give Israel free aid (which Israel gets interest on from US), with which Israel buys US weapons with 75% of that aid, the other 25% a subsidy to Israeli weapons makers
      at the additional expense of US weapons makers, and as well, Israel reverse-engineers the US weapons it gets, make a tiny cosmetic change, and then sells as “Israel made” weapons, including to buyers who are enemies of the US.

    • traintosiberia
      traintosiberia
      September 10, 2012, 6:00 pm

      NCINA-“enemies of Israel: Saudi Arabia a record $60 billion”

      And Israel gets 30 billions dolalrs worth arms free. US falls at the feet of israel ,requests to delay the construction on WB/Jerusalem for 3 months and Israel says F*** you and takes the delivery . BTW Saudi Arab takes the arms so that it can use it like Bahrain agaisnt its own people who want justice for Palestine , no war against Iran, and wants the corrupt Saudis out .Saudi citizen pays for the arms to uncle Sam.

    • traintosiberia
      traintosiberia
      September 10, 2012, 6:25 pm

      NCINA “Name a single war which the US as fought shoulder to shoulder with Israel in? ”

      1- Israel stole arms of highest quality for 3 years towards the end of WW2 from US ( read Spy Trade by Grant Smith ) through its agencies violating US rules and US kept quiet under pressure of media and charlaton dual loyal citizen in the highest places of teh governemnt
      2- Israelis ( proto ) forced Truman to extend support to israeli declaration of independence and made UN unable to ponder to send armies to crush the nascent nation as it had done for Kuwait in 1991.
      3-Israel ( proto) brought ex army men of ww2 from UK,US and France to wage war against Arabs .Those should have been called mercenaries and illegal combatants and tried in Hague and some should have been called Nazi terrorist like Stern gang menber Shamir.
      4-Israel (proto) killed US and UK offcials in Palestine and it went unpunished
      5-Israel’s war was fought by UK, France in 1956 and Eisenhower had to step in to remove the forces but these war mongers were not punished contary to US attitude to N Korea then and to Iraq in 1991
      6-Then USS liberty affairs.
      7- Today Obama is called every name possible on earth for not attacking Iran and Bush Sr was called wimp by same circle for dithering on Iraq over Kuwait , a war that was fought to make Isarel safe at the instigation of Israel and its friends in US.
      8- US suffers from loss of power ,prestige and men in uniforms and money for wars that do not benefit US but israel as US marches on to those countries that Sharon wanted US to deal with after Iraq war was over.
      9- Israel today without US support will be under sanctions like N Korea or Iran is or Iraq was for steady perennail war mongering activities , actual wars against its neighbours, and discrimnation aginst Palestinian at a cost to US’s finances and business along with increased Arab hostility to US
      10- Israel long ago would have been barred from UK for stealing heavy water in 60s, for passport frgeries and for killing its citizen, from USA for stealing nuclar material, trade secrtes,for spying,for illegal lobbying by illegetimate organization, for killing its citizen and for passing secrtes using the administrative positions, from New Zealand for same reason of passport forgeries.

      Israel never had to fight for other countries are fighitng for it directly and indirectly and bleeding for it

    • traintosiberia
      traintosiberia
      September 10, 2012, 6:38 pm

      NCINA “have helped Muslims in: Somalia, Balkans, Kuwait/Gulf War One, Iraq and Afghanistan. Israel goes ”

      May be Jewish people shuld be helped the way somalia,IraqAfghanistan were helped and may be US can create a nation like Kosovo for drug delivery and for support at UN for everything US/Israel do. It can act as also organ delivery center for rich persons with no kidney. It can also create a reality like Azerbaizan (out of Israel ) who steals its oil money ,buys Israeli protection and gives the airport for use agaisnt iarn if ncessasrry and steal elction as it did in 2003 and later and violently suppresses the poulation . Yes its a muslim country .It can find a way to create a “Kuwait ” out of Israel ,that will buy US arms and invest its money in US and allow its airspace to use against that part of Israel that resents US action. It can help Libyan to rise so that its citizen keep on killing each other while oil flows to the West.
      I think thats what Romans used to do in Palestine by using the Sanhedrin and High Priest.

    • traintosiberia
      traintosiberia
      September 10, 2012, 11:29 pm

      NCINA “It would be wonderful if Americans, Europeans kept their noses out of the Middle East – enough damage has been done!”

      It would have been a whole different story if Zionist did not ask them to be there to do the Zionist biddings at the first place. You might have to go back to 189os-1917 and beyond
      when
      the founders of ideas of Israel used the powerfuls Czar, Chancellors and Prime Minister and Sultan at the turn of the centuries for that ideas to spread and for the militay, diplomatic support,and official recognition of the validity and practability of thier causes at various international bodies and treaties or conferences . They pinned hopes on the succeesful use of religion, possible new military and economic advantages to the power concerned from such an entity ( Israel ) in that part of the world ,and offering Isarel as a solution of centuries old problems affecting Europe.Thye used their money and financial power and the problems they can create if their causes were not supported ( in a way the Zionist approach to manufacture and spread panic among Czar or Chancellor or Prime Minister is identical to the dread that is being created and mainatined between Democrat and Republican by the Zionist ) or advantages they can withdraw if not explicitly endorsed . Zionist dangled the prospect of getting American help to the enemy or getting the Jewsih votes or getting the Jewish people to revolt or engage in disruptive behaviors at a time when European powers were trying tio survive , avert the crisis or hold on to the thrones or to far flung empires.

  3. LeaNder
    LeaNder
    September 8, 2012, 4:34 pm

    I wish your link would lead me to that quote, it somehow doesn’t. Maybe that has to do with the login process one needs lately?

    Especially the second paragraph is interesting. But has it gone, 0r is it in a different article? Search does not help either. :(

    • annie
      annie
      September 8, 2012, 8:57 pm

      perhaps it has been scrubbed leaNder, i can’t find it either.

      • LeaNder
        LeaNder
        September 9, 2012, 6:21 am

        Thanks Annie, in a way this reminds me of the famous Hamas quote by Richard Witty he supposedly read in Haaretz.

        But I also agree with American below, it’s a very odd question, or maybe a purely rhetorical question?

  4. Carowhat
    Carowhat
    September 8, 2012, 7:55 pm

    It is difficult to tell just what do Americans themselves think when they see their candidates swear allegiance to Israel as if it were part and parcel of the national anthem and flag.

    They think our politicians have surrounded themselves with so many people whose primary loyalty is to Israel that they have come to believe that all Americans feel the same way. In fact blue collar Americans in Ohio and western Pennsylvania sit in coffee shops and listen to government officials and members of congress swear eternal fealty to Israel and wonder what happened to them that they all switched sides on us.

  5. American
    American
    September 9, 2012, 12:33 am

    I can’t find that part in the article either….reckon it was removed for some reason?

    I really don’t know though why he says it’s difficult to tell what Americans think….do people like Shalev or the Jewish Democratic Council or any politicans ever read the comments section of major papers anytime there’s an article on Israel? If they did they would know what Americans think of this US Israel fetish.
    Why does any Israeli even ask that question…all they have to do is imagine if Russia or Germany or France was running Israel.

  6. American
    American
    September 9, 2012, 1:29 am

    Post your suggestions for getting rid of AIPAC and all I- Firsters below.

    Carter on the Lobby
    “For the last 30 years, I have witnessed and experienced the severe restraints on any free and balanced discussion of the facts. This reluctance to criticize any policies of the Israeli government is because of the extraordinary lobbying efforts of the American-Israel Political Action Committee and the absence of any significant contrary voices.
    It would be almost politically suicidal for members of Congress to espouse a balanced position between Israel and Palestine, to suggest that Israel comply with international law or to speak in defense of justice or human rights for Palestinians.”
    – Jimmy Carter
    If Americans Knew

  7. ColinWright
    ColinWright
    September 9, 2012, 4:07 am

    The Harper government seems to pursue what looks suspiciously like a policy of harassing Muslims for fun ‘n profit. Oh, there are two hundred thousand Iranians in Canada? Let’s break relations!

    I could be wrong of course — but I don’t think I am. This isn’t the first such item I’ve noticed emanating from the enemy to the north/aka Israel’s only other friend in the world besides us — and of course, the loudly professed friendship for Israel fits in with the theory as well.

    Canada used to be sort of harmless if dull. I remember when I was in Iran as the Shah was falling, I used to say I was ‘Canadian.’

    That might not work so well these days.

    • Shmuel
      Shmuel
      September 9, 2012, 4:21 am

      I used to say I was ‘Canadian.’

      I can just see all those Yankee backpackers around the world, feverishly ripping the maple leaf patches off their Northfaces.

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 9, 2012, 4:28 am

        “I used to say I was ‘Canadian.’

        I can just see all those Yankee backpackers around the world, feverishly ripping the maple leaf patches off their Northfaces.”

        Yeah. Might go with ‘New Zealand’ next time out. If they do talk with an accent, hopefully nobody knows exactly what it sounds like.

        …probably just admit I’m American, though. Fortunately, I never was one for wearing a national flag in the first place.

        …go with a state flag. That’ll confuse ’em long enough for you to make your getaway.

      • southernobserver
        southernobserver
        September 10, 2012, 12:07 am

        ‘Fush und chups’ = NZ, ‘Feeesh and Cheeep’ = Australian.
        ‘Fish, eh’ =canadian.

      • eljay
        eljay
        September 10, 2012, 7:47 am

        >> ‘Fish, eh’ =canadian.

        Actually, it’s “Fish ‘n chips, eh?” :-)

        And when the waitress finally brings the order, a Canuck will* say, “It’s a-boot time!” :-P

        (*not)

  8. adventa
    adventa
    September 9, 2012, 8:01 am

    Maybe I’d just wear a patch of that picture of the earth taken from Apollo 8. . . .

  9. chinese box
    chinese box
    September 9, 2012, 11:24 am

    Looks like NCINA was sent here from Hasbara Headquarters. Check out her user profile, all that’s missing is a reference to Sudan.

    • ColinWright
      ColinWright
      September 9, 2012, 1:37 pm

      Well, at least her profile has the virtue of having a certain minimal honesty. She’s not a ‘I’m not a Zionist’ who turns out to support Israel.

      • chinese box
        chinese box
        September 9, 2012, 3:08 pm

        And yet I have the nagging feeling, despite her professed concern for the Congo, etc., that her actual activism is limited to hasbara.

      • NCINA
        NCINA
        September 9, 2012, 5:33 pm

        I don’t generally give myself labels – I make no secret that I’m for the Jewish peoples right to self-determination in Israel and oscillated between 22 state solution and a two state solution until very recently. I in no way support one state.

        And whilst I know deep down that the US has been a greater force for good and better than having any Islamic country as a superpower and thank the US for its veto. I dislike the nation intensely.

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 10, 2012, 1:50 am

        NCINA says: “I don’t generally give myself labels – I make no secret that I’m for the Jewish peoples right to self-determination in Israel…”

        Another man felt that way about the German people’s right to self-determination in Poland. He even sent settlers there, who — funnily enough — were attacked by fierce bad terrorists there as well.

      • Walid
        Walid
        September 10, 2012, 8:19 am

        “And whilst I know deep down that the US has been a greater force for good and better than having any Islamic country as a superpower and thank the US for its veto. I dislike the nation intensely.” (NCINA)

        Spoken like a really ungrateful Israeli or Israel-lover. Unlike you, I dislike America’s veto that covers Israel’s crimes but I still like the nation intensely.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        September 10, 2012, 11:47 am

        SO, NCINA dislike dislikes the USA intensely. Does he mean the American government, which favors, in bipartisan fashion, Israel way more than any other country, and funds it, and diplomatically covers Israel at the UN accordingly?

        If not, he must mean the American people, or along with that their culture. How do they differ from the Israeli people and their culture? American leaders say we have the same values.
        Maybe NCINA will honor us with what exactly he intensely hates about “the nation” of the USA. I guess he’s Israeli? What country or people and/or culture is NCINA using as a role model, a standard? Another superpower, or at least big power? A little country, a weaker country? He does not say.

      • proudzionist777
        proudzionist777
        September 10, 2012, 2:13 pm

        @Colin

        In invidious, even sinister, comparison.
        The League of Nations approved Jewish settlement in Palestine-Eretz Yisroel.

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 10, 2012, 2:47 pm

        proudzionist says: ‘…The League of Nations approved Jewish settlement in Palestine-Eretz Yisroel.’

        How is that a point? Well, my wife is off to put gas in the car and buy some vegetables. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        September 10, 2012, 3:01 pm

        “I don’t generally give myself labels”

        Okay, I’ll give you one: bigot. Anyone who would lump the population of 22 countries together because they’re Arab is nothing but a gutter-licking bigot.

      • justicewillprevail
        justicewillprevail
        September 10, 2012, 4:27 pm

        “I dislike the the nation intensely”

        LOL, you’re doing a good job of making the feeling mutual.

      • talknic
        talknic
        September 10, 2012, 6:23 pm

        proudzionist777 September 10, 2012 at 2:13 pm

        “The League of Nations approved Jewish settlement in Palestine-Eretz Yisroel”

        … as Palestinian citizens, in Palestine. Article 7. Mandate FOR Palestine. Ever actually read it?

      • proudzionist777
        proudzionist777
        September 11, 2012, 1:14 am

        I’m sorry. I was referring to the coins minted and used by Arab and Jew alike during the Mandate. The coins that say Palestine (Eretz Yisroel).

        http://www.rosenblumcoins.com/files/img/41f/53302.jpg

      • proudzionist777
        proudzionist777
        September 11, 2012, 1:26 am

        @Colin

        You compared Nazi Germany’s annexation of the ‘Sudatenland’ with the League of Nations settlement of Jews in Palestine.

        Most people would find this comparison somewhat odd.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        September 11, 2012, 9:59 am

        You compared Nazi Germany’s annexation of the ‘Sudatenland’ with the League of Nations settlement of Jews in Palestine.

        Most people would find this comparison somewhat odd.

        Yes, because most people are ignorant or stupid. And if we go by the “national self-determination” theory that the Paris Peace Conference and the League of Nations was supposed to put into effect, the German annexation of the Sudetenland (with its population being over 90% German who overwhelming wanted to join Germany) was way more legitimate than permitting Jews access to Palestine, as the population was overwhelmingly non-Jewish, and wished no such invasion of their land by foreigner Jews with no connection to the land at all (save for the fact that they liked an ancient fairy tale set there.)

        If you posit that Munich was a crime, then the foundation of “israel” is a greater one.

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 11, 2012, 2:52 pm

        proudzionist777: ‘You compared Nazi Germany’s annexation of the ‘Sudatenland’ with the League of Nations settlement of Jews in Palestine.

        Most people would find this comparison somewhat odd.’

        So would I. You must have misunderstood something I said.

        I’m perfectly happy to point out the equations between Nazi Germany and Israel — but the German annexation of the Sudetenland wouldn’t be one of them. For that to work, Palestine would have had to have been an area already predominately inhabited by Jews.

    • annie
      annie
      September 9, 2012, 1:55 pm

      doncha just love the way they plant themselves at the top of the threads to drive all of us off the edge? not too effective if you ask me. this ones a live wire. wonder how long he’ll last, or if he’s been here before. they seem to get worse, if that’s even possible.

      • September 9, 2012, 2:17 pm

        Annie: “doncha just love the way they plant themselves at the top of the threads to drive all of us off the edge?”
        What I love even more is the site management’s giving very ample space to Zionist propaganda (both in the comments and arguably also in the articles) while systematically censoring a serious discussion of this policy and the doubts that it is generating.

      • annie
        annie
        September 9, 2012, 3:27 pm

        systematically censoring a serious discussion of the comment policy and the doubts that it is generating? as i recall we had a thread with over 500 comments about it until the site finally shut it down. but there’s still a thread up on the comment policy if you want to talk about it. maybe you can get others over there discussing it with you. or write adam and phil, perhaps you can interest them in opening another.

      • chinese box
        chinese box
        September 9, 2012, 3:57 pm

        What I love even more is the site management’s giving very ample space to Zionist propaganda (both in the comments and arguably also in the articles) while systematically censoring a serious discussion of this policy and the doubts that it is generating.

        I agree that too many bots are allowed to post at once, cluttering up the forum, but I don’t see where things are being “systematically censored” here.

      • September 9, 2012, 4:35 pm

        Not interested in posting in some “free-speech reservation” enclosure when I am replying within a discussion. Not very happy about the disappearance of a post within a few minutes either.

      • September 9, 2012, 5:55 pm

        “I don’t see where things are being “systematically censored” here.”
        How could you if you aren’t the one doing the censoring?

      • chinese box
        chinese box
        September 10, 2012, 7:49 am

        Maybe there was something inappropriate about your post that violated the forum rules.

      • proudzionist777
        proudzionist777
        September 11, 2012, 1:11 am

        There is definitely censorship of opinion on this website. Not much, but some.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        September 11, 2012, 10:05 am

        “There is definitely censorship of opinion on this website. Not much, but some.”

        You’re right, pudracist666. When you announced that you were going to become an active criminal in the theft of Palestine from its people, I attempted a number of posts where I expressed by opinion as what would might occur to you and your fellows which would constitute justice, but they were censored.

      • chinese box
        chinese box
        September 9, 2012, 3:10 pm

        There seem to be at least two new bots who’ve popped up over the last couple of days. I was wondering too if they were retreads.

    • NCINA
      NCINA
      September 9, 2012, 5:28 pm

      Let me know where ‘Hasbara Headquarters’ are and whether I can join their payroll with my views then tell me which Sudan you are referring to? Didn’t catch that email did you too busy watching genocide go on methinks.

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 10, 2012, 1:47 am

        NCINA says: “Let me know where ‘Hasbara Headquarters’ are and whether I can join their payroll with my views…”

        ? Bots don’t get paid.

      • proudzionist777
        proudzionist777
        September 10, 2012, 2:08 pm

        @NCINA

        The Israel bashers can’t handle the screwballs you’re throwing!

      • annie
        annie
        September 10, 2012, 2:41 pm

        oh yeah, we’re all in tailspins/not. the most outrageous thing about ncin is those big capital letters in his name. just screams ‘happening’ doesn’t it.

        and speaking of curve balls did you read this I’m for the Jewish peoples right to self-determination

        ouch!

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 10, 2012, 2:49 pm

        peoudzionist777 says: ‘The Israel bashers can’t handle the screwballs you’re throwing!’

        Yep. We’re just reeling. Reeling from what, precisely? What was the ‘screwball’ (tellingly, something confusing and deceptive — it would have to be, wouldn’t it?) that was thrown?

      • ColinWright
        ColinWright
        September 10, 2012, 2:59 pm

        Annie Robbins says: “…did you read ‘I’m for the Jewish peoples right to self-determination’…’

        Yeh. Speaking of that, it did definitely trigger one of the several points about Israel that fill me with…that word officer sean says I mustn’t use in connection with Israel.

        The Zionists always do that. They pick out some phrase with positive ethical connotations from some other field and mendaciously apply it to one of their little exercises in applied evil. Driving a whole people from their land and appropriating it for themselves becomes merely ‘the Jewish people exercising their right to self-determination.’

        That’s not what ‘self-determination’ means at all of course. ‘Self determination’ refers to a people deciding its fate while remaining right where it is — not going someplace else and taking that. For Zionists to describe what they’ve done as ‘self-determination’ is like for me to describe going and helping myself to that fine big house in North Berkeley I’ve had my eye on and describing it as ‘property improvement.’

      • proudzionist777
        proudzionist777
        September 10, 2012, 3:15 pm

        Yes. And NCINA also supports Kurdish self-determination.

        How utterly dreadful of her!

        Kurdish self-determination! Couldn’t you just vomit?

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        September 10, 2012, 3:34 pm

        “The Israel bashers can’t handle the screwballs you’re throwing!”

        LMAO. The only screwballs around here, pudracist, are you and your fellow criminals.

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        September 10, 2012, 11:40 pm

        proudzionist777

        What about being against Armenian Genocide bill before the flotilla -killing of one Americans and a few non Americans on that USS liberty-soaked sea
        and for it after the flotilla?

        Is Kurdistan getting help from that moral doghouse again?

      • proudzionist777
        proudzionist777
        September 11, 2012, 1:08 am

        A screwball is a type of pitch in American baseball.
        The erratic flight of the ball makes it difficult for some batters to hit.

  10. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    September 10, 2012, 11:59 pm

    The founding fathers of israel kew that while Israel nneded to be powerful ,its neighbours needed to be weak and needed to stay riven with dissension. This idea was later revisted by Oded Ynion and PNAC. The foudning fathers also knew that no one country other than Israel should ever be allowed to be strong and viable and socially cohesive around it. Fast froward- we see Kisinger saying that Iraq and Iran shoud keep fighting and destroy each other and in 1979 Wolfowitz saying that Saddam needed to be destroyed along wth Ghaddafi. Their immidiate ancestors have alraedy called Nasser a Hitler and would soon use that epithet against a few other . Soon the homogenous but not monolithic zionsit group would depart from the prevalent popular American issues ( civil rights , anti war,pro peace and justice ) and causes for these movements satrted affecting thier first born israel’s interests. They changed party, they demonized old affliations they enjoyed and that made them public figures. Thier children will grow up and carry the foreign flag further. they will group and regroup and insert themselves in the political power coriridor and banish the dissenters and proudly assert that they have done it ( like getting rid of Arabisit from republican party or from state dept or from academia to some exttent or goning after Clinotn’s aide or removing Arab American from Clinton administrattion or throwing Sanchez,Helen Thomas,Olivia Nasser or Abu Ghraib under the bus ). It was not a planned assault from the begining of Wilson or Truman adminsuitration .It was a readiness to distort and lie and manipulate every steps of the way as opportunity showed up and as opportunity was created by the zionist.
    Just putting the facts together without any label is not antisemitic for American citizen wont connect them and the facts would disappear from the back pages of the media .But putting an appropriate label to describe that illegal activities over the decades for easy understandings by the American will be framed as an exercise of antisemitism! Just like putting the label of Hitler works the American minds .Only if they analysed the facts they would have differed and will differ. Just as Hitler concept/image distorts the picture and blocks the thinking , so does the use of image of rampaging or creeping antisemitism .

Leave a Reply