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Israeli prediction of third intifada follows days of provocation in Hebron

on 60 Comments
mohammad sal
Funeral of Mohammed Salayme

There’s been lots of unrest occurring around Hebron in recent weeks, including most notably the killing of 17-year-old Mohammed Salayme at a Hebron checkpoint a week ago, which has gotten international attention.

But Salayme’s killing on December 12 did not take place in a vacuum. While it can be viewed as an isolated event that just happened one day and as a result hostilities erupted, let’s take a closer look at the events surrounding Salayme’s brutal killing– roads and villages closed off by Israel’s military, journalists assaulted, Palestinian high Authority officials arrested– to better understand the climate in Hebron during this volatile period.

At the bottom of my list you will see a video posted by Times of Israel, a propaganda sheet for the Israeli government, over the weekend alleging to be Palestinian militants calling for a 3rd Initfada. It may well be in Israel’s interests to have an intifada. After all, Israel has always had an answer to Palestinian resistance in the occupied territories, and seems to prefer violence as the Palestinian response.

But my point today is not to come to any definitive conclusions. It is rather to use a timeline starting the week before Salayme’s death and use that week as a brief snapshot of life under occupation. This week will include a cast of characters as well as events one might easily construe as provocative in nature.

The timeline:

December 5-6. International Solidarity Movement reports: Clashes erupt in Hebron after Israeli forces provoke Palestinians in area H1

Clashes broke out in Hebron on Thursday [Dec.6] after a confrontation between Palestinian Authority police and Israeli Occupation Forces.

On Wednesday [Dec 5] there was a verbal confrontation between a Palestinian Police officer and the Israeli Army. The following day Israeli Forces spotted the Officer while they were on a patrol in area H1 (which is a Palestinian controlled area) and tried to arrest him in Bab Al-Zawiye. Palestinians who witnessed the scene intervened and the officer managed to avoid the unlawful arrest.

Some will recall that this event was caught on video, the video went viral, and led to former Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman’s outrageous slap-a-soldier and you die statement live on Israel Radio days later.

December 6: Israel’s military shot tear gas into the crowded streets of Hebron and chaos ensued. The military also used rubber coated steel bullets and percussion grenades on a civilian crowd of hundreds. According to the ISM:

The clashes continued for a few hours. Over 20 Palestinians were injured. Israeli Forces are supposed to stay in their controlled area of H2, where the illegal settlements are. However they are constantly encroaching into H1 which is controlled by the Palestinian Authority. While the soldiers patrol H1 streets they harass and provoke the local Palestinian population. These kind of patrols prevent any chance of a peaceful atmosphere in the city.

So, following from a verbal confrontation between Palestinian and Israeli authorities on December 5, Israel forces continue an encroachment on H1 the very next day, and a riot breaks out on the streets of Hebron, instigated by the presence of occupation forces in a region they allegedly have no authority.

As Ami Kaufman, reporting at +972 points out “Not one reporter asked what those soldiers were doing in the middle of Hebron.” Provocation.

December 8: Arrests of high PA officials.

The Jerusalem Post reported, on Saturday December 8th Israeli forces arrested 2 important PA intelligence officers in Hebron during an overnight raid.

Palestinian sources identified the two officers as Ahmed Bhais, 40, and Mohamed Abu Eid, 48.

Bhais is the director of operations at the PA’s General Intelligence Service in Hebron.

Abu Eid serves as commander of the PA General Intelligence Service in Yatta.


According to the sources, the two PA intelligence officers were responsible for the arrest of dozens of Hamas supporters in the Hebron area in the past few years.

IMEMC reports “more than 30 Israeli military vehicles” invaded the town during the raid. Was the arrest of two high PA officials related to the confrontations between Palestinian Authority police and Israeli forces in Hebron 2 days before? Israeli soldiers appear to be provoking Palestinians inside areas that are the supposed purview of the Palestinian Authority.

Along with direct challenges and arrests of Palestinian Authority officials, you have to consider the timing. These provocations seem aimed at sowing discord inside the Palestinian community at a time when Fatah and Hamas are trying to work out a unification deal and rallies approved by the PA celebrating Hamas’s 25 Anniversary are taking place is cities all across the West Bank, including Hebron (on Dec. 14). Note that Israel arrested the very PA officials who had previously been arresting Hamas members in the Hebron area.

The official Israeli media reflect Israeli fears about unification. On December 9, Israel’s Channel 10 TV showed video under the headline, “Third Intifada?” and the next day Times of Israel reports In Israel, fears of a new Palestinian uprising. And as for the Prime Minister, Netanyahu said  “To my regret, he [Abbas] strives for unity with .. Hamas ”.”

We have seen this pattern before. Earlier this year after Fatah and Hamas  agreed to establish a unity government, Israeli troops arrested the elected head of the Palestinian Legislative Council, Dr. Aziz Dweik for no apparent reason, along with two other legislators.

December 10: Rightwing Israelis backlash against supposed curbs on soldiers.

The Times of Israel reports that Israeli political officials, responding to another video gone viral, state soldiers “should not be subject to restrictions in their response to demonstrators”, ”soldiers should make maximal use of all weapons at their disposal”and “troops…hands were tied by superiors.”

December 11: The next day on its Facebook page, the rightwing group Im Tirzu posts an alarmist cartoon about soldiers facing “emasculation” from human rights groups and the European Union.

December 11: Israeli army raids three civil society offices in West Bank at 1 a.m. Two of those offices were Addameer, the prisoner support NGO. This wasn’t in Hebron; but many of the prisoners they support are from Hebron. The raid follows an Addameer statement that it is “deeply concerned about the growing number of arrests of children in recent months.

December 12: Israel raids several towns around Hebron, firing tear gas and acoustic bullets.  Scores of Palestinians were injured. One of those towns was Yatta, the hometown of the 2 Palestinian Intelligence officers who were previously arrested.

In Yatta, meanwhile, Israeli military vehicles prowled the streets for about three hours before leaving. There were no reports of any incidents even though the incursion was a blatant violation of an area governed by the Palestinian Authority. Local community activists said that such actions are done deliberately by the Israelis in order to provoke an angry reaction.

December 12: Palestinians in Hebron rally in support of hunger strikers locked in Israeli prisons.

December 12: In our Roots of Resistance series, Dr. Mustafa Barghouti warns that Israeli repression reminiscent of the first intifada may provoke a new uprising.

Yesterday, two Israeli ministers initiated a request within the Knesset that, if approved, would permit the Israeli army the right to use live ammunition against Palestinian civilian demonstrators.

December 12: At about 7:30 p.m., 17-year-old Muhammad Salayme was killed by an Israeli soldier at a checkpoint.

December 12: Moments after Salayme’s killing, this video was shot on the streets of Hebron,  titled “Assault on journalists in Hebron.” Listen to the soldier threaten to arrest the journalist:

After Salayme’s death, hostilities erupted, arrests were made, many people were injured. Raids included arrests against many previously released prisoners. Roads were blocked to many neighborhoods of Hebron as well as surrounding areas.

Had Salayme’s killing not occurred, it is likely that these actions, night raids, and arrests would have taken place anyway. As Popular Committee Coordinator Rateb al-Jabour noted, Israeli forces had “recently increased activity in south Hebron particularly targeting former members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.”

The question arises, Are Israelis arresting people in preparation for an uprising that they themselves are pushing? This video, shot December 13 on the streets of Hebron, recorded events the day after Salayme’s death:

The presence of the Israeli military on the streets of Hebron, recorded the day of Salayme’s funeral, with unrest in which over 90 were injured, is an extension of exactly the same kinds of actions that were taking place in the days prior to his death. A continuum of events– though Salayme’s death is a defining moment.

As an occupier, Israel has always been more comfortable with Palestinian violence than with political resistance. You may recall the admission, they don’t do Gandhi very well. Israel can violently put down Palestinian resistance– and then denounce said resistance as terrorism in the eyes of the world. Israel sees non violent resistance as a threat, political resistance as a threat, Palestinian unification as a threat, and Palestinian independence as a threat. And they certainly view Palestinian sovereignty as a threat.

The fact that Israel Hayom, a leading propaganda sheet for the Israeli government, is now warning about a third Intifida in Hebron is merely the latest evidence that Israel would prefer violent resistance to the occupation and the continued illegal land-grabs of Palestinians land.

When Lieberman calls for Israeli troops to respond with lethal fire “when attacked” by PA police, when politicians call for legislation to increase the lethality of already deadly ammunition to use against civilians, when arrests of potential resistance fighters are on the rise, watch out.

Then there is this video that came out Saturday, calling for a third Initada. Now, allegedly, some Palestinians militants from Hebron are calling for that Intifada ‘if Israel continues to make arrests in the West Bank’.

And amazingly, the Palestinian militants supposedly tie this message to the UN status upgrade of Nov. 29 that has so upset Israel. Wonders never cease.

Times of Israel

According to Ynet News, the men announced in Arabic that they support the recent UN recognition of the Palestinian National Authority as an observer state, but add that more remains to be done — a conquest of “all of Palestine, from the sea to the river,” in a third intifada spreading “from the heart of Hebron to all of Palestine.”

The men also reportedly said that if Israel continues to make arrests in the West Bank, they will kidnap IDF soldiers. They warned that if Israel were to kill Palestinians, they would retaliate “with an iron fist.”

Tying an alleged intifada from the river to the sea to the Palestinian UN upgrade would hardly seem relevant today– except that it excites Israeli fears about Palestinian resistance. But it falls into the pattern of the last 12 days: provocation. Whether it will result in an Intifada is anyone’s guess.

Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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60 Responses

  1. Avi_G. on December 19, 2012, 7:12 pm

    According to Ynet News, the men announced in Arabic that they support the recent UN recognition of the Palestinian National Authority as an observer state, but add that more remains to be done — a conquest of “all of Palestine, from the sea to the river,” in a third intifada spreading “from the heart of Hebron to all of Palestine.”

    Israel is looking for every excuse to kick Palestinians, yet again. So it’s no wonder that a video showing 8 persons is being conflated with the entirety of the Palestinian people. Now all Israel has to do is claim that this group has a following of 1,000,000,000,000,000 Palestinians and the Hasbara job is done.

    By the way, this is typical of Israeli propaganda that thrives on portraying Palestinians as nihilistic and not trust-worthy, ala if we give them an inch, they will try to throw us in the sea — a cute spinoff of They’re all anti-semites and The whole world is against us.

    • annie on December 19, 2012, 8:39 pm

      did you see that video taken moments after the killing?

    • annie on December 19, 2012, 8:48 pm

      i’m not altogether convinced the inifada video is authentic

      a united front against Israel, set to include representatives from groups both political and militant, such as Hamas, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PLO).


      • Bumblebye on December 19, 2012, 9:39 pm

        Video 1, post-killing, seems like controlled panic – ie, keep everyone out of here til we get our story straight.
        Video 2 has somewhat of an ‘actory’ tone, not like I’ve heard in others from Islamists.

        But the biggest problem with a provoked Intifada is that the tame msm will never ever be remotely honest and provide the timeline. It will always and only begin when Israel says so, and out of thin air as usual. It’ll be those uppity Palestinians hurting Israel’s brave ickle soldier boys for no other reason than their love of terrrrsm

      • annie on December 19, 2012, 9:57 pm

        the ‘intifada’ video is the 4th in the series. video 1 is an incredible hungerstrikers rally in hebron a few hrs before Mohammed Salayme was killed. it’s startling footage of the climate in hebron.

      • Bumblebye on December 19, 2012, 10:26 pm

        Sorry, they were the two you referred to in your comment!

        However, it seems pretty certain that the Israeli military is carrying out manoevres in anticipation of a new uprising:
        “According to witness reports, there has been a heavy presence of Israeli military helicopters in groups of two and three over Palestinian cities of the West Bank.

        Planes are flying across the skies of the West Bank at night, turning off their lights and flying at low altitude, witnesses said. However, those that fly during the day do so at high altitude, take up positions and stop in the sky several times.”
        Funny (peculiar) how Israel makes all its preparations for an assault or war, and then, lo & behold! the Palestinians provoke them into it!

      • annie on December 19, 2012, 10:57 pm

        the same cameraman’s hebron video from the 14th opens with a drone overhead…

        or check out hebron on nov 29 the day of the UN bid:

      • annie on December 20, 2012, 1:07 am

        pretty certain that the Israeli military is carrying out manoevres in anticipation of a new uprising

        pretty certain that the Israeli military is carrying out manoevres to incite a new uprising:

  2. DICKERSON3870 on December 19, 2012, 7:33 pm

    RE: “The question arises, Are Israelis arresting people in preparation for an uprising that they themselves are pushing?” ~ Annie Robbins

    ANSWER: No, the Israelis are not arresting people in preparation for an uprising. It is more likely that Likudnik Israeli soldiers are arresting Palestinians to incite an uprising between now and the upcoming Israeli elections in order to improve the election results for Likud-Beitenu.

    SEE: “The Dogs of War: The Next Intifada”, By Uri Avnery, Counterpunch, 9/03/11

    [EXCERPT] . . . The second (“al-Aqsa”) intifada started after the breakdown of the 2000 Camp David conference and Ariel Sharon’s deliberately provocative “visit” to the Temple Mount. The Palestinians held non-violent mass demonstrations. The army responded with selective killings. A sharpshooter accompanied by an officer would take position in the path of the protest, and the officer would point out selected targets – protesters who looked like “ringleaders”. They were killed.
    This was highly effective. Soon the non-violent demonstrations ceased and were replaced by very violent (“terrorist”) actions. With those the army was back on familiar ground. . .


    • annie on December 19, 2012, 8:49 pm

      ” to incite an uprising ” that’s what i meant dickerson

  3. Kathleen on December 19, 2012, 8:45 pm

    Whoa Annie you out did your self. Really like timelines. Incredible show the build up the endless provocations. Israeli soldiers just keep poling, poking, poking
    Annie “note that Israel arrested the very PA officials who had previously been arresting Hamas members in the Hebron area”

    “we have seen this pattern before” indeed. And you are creating important time lines. let’s hope there is not more mass violence.

    Annie, Phil tonight on Chris Matthews Chris focused on an article about the news that neocons Kimberly and Fred Kagan had extraordinary access to General Petraeus in Afghanistan. Chris also states that allegedly the Obama administration was unaware of this close relationship between the Kagan’s and Petraeus. Chris Matthews “Let me finish” segment is also focused on this unusual access of the Iraq war pushers to Obama’s General Petraeus. David Corn was a guest in the first segment on Kagan’s access and said the “neocons are great at burrowing” I do think that both you and Phil would be interested in these segments on Hardball. Sorry unable to link.

    • annie on December 19, 2012, 8:51 pm

      thanks kathleen, your tips are always great. glad you like the timeline.

  4. Kathleen on December 19, 2012, 8:56 pm

    hey Annie can you explain why say for instance my comment went right up on your thread but a comment I just posted over at Phil’s latest on Hagel is still hung up in moderation? Who or how are the comments filtered here at MW?

    Marcy Wheeler (Emptywheel) always does time lines and they sure help me get it

  5. ritzl on December 19, 2012, 10:56 pm

    Palestinians in Hebron should set up a “flying” sonic sniper squad and blast the settlers with constant max volume broadcasts of the protests. Preferably with an unnervingly high sub-bass component reminiscent of earthquakes, avalanches, rock slides, jet engine exhaust blast, and/or large machinery rumble to visceral-ize the change that is coming.

    Good to see Palestinians taking it to the streets more frequently and in more places. Excellent.

  6. Kathleen on December 19, 2012, 11:28 pm

    Watched all of the clips. Israeli soldiers such pigs. Let that little kid go. WTF, lost their minds these soldiers lost their minds and souls

  7. Hostage on December 20, 2012, 12:11 am

    The question arises, Are Israelis arresting people in preparation for an uprising that they themselves are pushing?

    SSDD. The ICJ noted that the whole situation in the Occupied territories was illegal and that Israel could not justify its wrongful acts on the basis of security or necessity – because Israel had helped create the so-called state of necessity.

    • Obsidian on December 21, 2012, 12:20 am

      “..the whole situation..”

      What is a ‘whole situation’? Whatever does that mean?
      The ICJ never said that the occupation is illegal. Illegal settlement building probably, but certainly not the occupation itself.

      • ToivoS on December 21, 2012, 3:06 am

        Obsidian blunders: What is a ‘whole situation’? Whatever does that mean?

        Oh, oh obsidian you must be new here. Do not try to confront hostage on an issue like this. He will wipe the floor with you with overwhelming knowledge of international law and the facts of the situation. I know. I have challenged him a few times. The good news is that I came out of the encounter much more knowledgeable than going in.

      • Cliff on December 21, 2012, 5:27 am

        an occupation is meant to be temporary

        to label the conflict between Jewish nationalists and Palestinians as ‘the occupation’ is incorrect

        it is colonialism and apartheid

        so no need to quibble

        not like a typical Jewish colonist like you gives a shit about the rule of law (or basic human decency)

      • Obsidian on December 23, 2012, 4:26 pm

        An occupation of a State’s territory by another State is meant to be temporary.
        The West Bank and Gaza were not State territory.

      • Cliff on December 23, 2012, 4:35 pm

        Which means nothing.

        There is a Palestinian nation. The Palestinian nation exists in the land of Israel and Historic Palestine.

        That territory belongs to the Palestinian people.

        If that is the legal definition, it’s simply a technicality and doesn’t speak to the spirit of the matter.

        The West Bank and Gaza and E. Jerusalem are called the Occupied Palestinian territories.

        The red tape your hiding behind doesn’t change the nature of Israel’s conflict with the Palestinian people: colonialism.

      • Mooser on December 23, 2012, 5:58 pm

        “An occupation of a State’s territory by another State is meant to be temporary.
        The West Bank and Gaza were not State territory.”

        Yeah, the West Bank is just like Oakland. There’s no there there.

      • seafoid on December 23, 2012, 6:27 pm

        So there is no occupation. It is all JEWISH LAND, is it?

        FFS. Give it a rest.

      • RoHa on December 24, 2012, 1:51 am

        “So there is no occupation.”

        Obsidian is showing, once again, the total incomprehension of morality that is such a feature of Zionism. He is suggesting that if, as a legal technicality, there is no occupation, then there is no wrongdoing. He simply cannot see the distinction between “legal” and “moral”.

      • Hostage on December 21, 2012, 8:57 am

        What is a ‘whole situation’? Whatever does that mean? The ICJ never said that the occupation is illegal. Illegal settlement building probably, but certainly not the occupation itself.

        FYI, the Court did find that Israel’s occupation regime and its policies and practices violated several provisions of the UN Charter and international law. More to the point, the Court advised that Israel’s actions could not be justified by invoking a state of necessity or Article 51 of the UN Charter. Under the terms of customary international law reflected in both the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and the General Assembly’s “Definition of Aggression”, any military occupation in violation of the UN Charter is illegal ipso jure.

        The Court voted 14-0 on several findings that said both the construction of the wall and the associated Israeli administrative regime in the occupied territory had resulted in an “illegal situation”. The Court ordered Israel to rescind all the related legislative and regulatory acts, which of course include measures it had outlined regarding the status of Jerusalem; the transfer of parts of Israel’s civilian population into the occupied territory, and the establishment of settlements on expropriated land in flagrant violation of the Geneva Conventions.

      • Obsidian on December 21, 2012, 5:31 pm


        “A. By fourteen votes to one,

        The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law”;

        That’s fourteen to one. Not fourteen to zero.
        Be that as it may, by my interpretation, parts of the barrier built on ‘Occupied Palestinian Territory’ were deemed illegal by the Court. The ‘associated regime’ is narrowly defined by the Court and pertains only to the illegal portions of the barrier. The ‘associated regime’ does not mean the entire Occupation of the West Bank, nor does it mean other illegal components of the occupation, such as the settlements.

      • Hostage on December 22, 2012, 12:30 am

        The ‘associated regime’ does not mean the entire Occupation of the West Bank, nor does it mean other illegal components of the occupation, such as the settlements

        Once again, the definition of the crime of aggression includes any military occupation in violation of the UN Charter . The ICJ has determined in a number of cases, including “Certain Expenses”, that decisions regarding questions about the maintenance of international peace and security fall within the functional area of competence of the General Assembly.

        The General Assembly long ago demanded that Israel immediately and unconditionally withdraw its armed forces from all of the Arab occupied territories. The Assembly also determined that Israel’s continued occupation of the Arab territories captured in 1967 in violation of UN resolutions and the terms of the UN Charter satisfies the Definition of Aggression. See:
        *General Assembly Resolution ES-9/1
        *General Assembly resolution 39/146

        All of the primary UN organs have adopted resolutions and advisory opinions which say that Israel’s continued occupation; the annexation of Jerusalem; the establishment of settlements; and interference with the exercise of the Palestinian’s right of self-determination violate its obligations under the UN Charter and international law and that its arguments about the non-applicability of the Geneva Conventions, its own security, or a state of necessity cannot excuse the wrongfulness of its actions in the occupied territory.

      • talknic on December 22, 2012, 3:28 am

        “The ‘associated regime’ does not mean the entire Occupation of the West Bank, nor does it mean other illegal components of the occupation, such as the settlements.”

        Correct. They weren’t the question asked. Were they the questions asked the court must answer per the Law, UN Charter and GCs, all of which fall in favour of the Palestinians.

      • Mooser on December 21, 2012, 11:04 am

        “What is a ‘whole situation’? Whatever does that mean?”

        ROTFLMSJAO!! An anguished cry, the cry of a victim, a regular toad beneath the harrow! Yes, Obtrusion, the world is using completely isolated and unconnected anomalies to single out and condemn the Jewish State! Isn’t there a name for this kind persecution?

      • Mooser on December 21, 2012, 11:06 am

        “Illegal settlement building probably”

        So illegal settlement building is “probably” illegal? That’s a unique way of looking at it. You know, Yonah may be right, it just might be “more than a religion”.

      • Hostage on December 22, 2012, 2:33 am

        “What is a ‘whole situation’? Whatever does that mean?” . . . ROTFLMSJAO!!

        Agreed. The ICJ synopsis begins with the laws against the use of force to deny others their right of self-determination and notes that it’s a violation of the law contained in the UN Charter and the major human rights conventions:

        Applicable law.
        United Nations Charter – General Assembly resolution 2625 (XXV) – Illegality of any territorial acquisition resulting from the threat or use of force – Right of peoples to self-determination.
        International humanitarian law – Regulations annexed to the Fourth Hague Convention of 1907 – Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 – Applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory – Human rights law — International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights – International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights -Convention on the Rights of the Child – Relationship between international humanitarian law and human rights law – Applicability of human rights instruments outside national territory – Applicability of those instruments in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.

        88. The Court also notes that the principle of self-determination of
        peoples has been enshrined in the United Nations Charter and reaffirmed by the General Assembly in resolution 2625 (XXV) cited above, pursuant to which “Every State has the duty to refrain from any forcible action which deprives peoples referred to [in that resolution] . . . of their right to self-determination.” Article 1 common to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights reaffirms the right of all peoples to self-determination, and lays upon the States parties the obligation to promote the realization of that right and to respect it, in conformity with the provisions of the United Nations Charter.

        In paragraphs 154-160 the Court spelled-out that Israel’s occupation, construction of the wall, its violations of the requirements of the instruments on international humanitarian law – like the establishment of settlements, population transfer, and population displacement – are all examples of forcible actions that deprive the Palestinian people of the right of self-determination in violation of the UN Charter and international law. The Court advised that all states and the UN had an obligation to bring that illegal situation to an end. There’s no way to salvage the occupation from the wreckage, since it is the prime example of a forcible measure in violation of the UN Charter.

      • Obsidian on December 23, 2012, 3:39 pm

        I cite to Paragraph 160. “Finally, the (Court is of the view that the United Nations, and especially the General Assembly and the Security Council, should consider what further action is required to bring to an end the illegal situation resulting from the construction of the wall and the associated régime”

        Right. Like I said. The illegal situation results from the some wall construction and from settlement construction/transfer, etc.

        The occupation, per se, is not illegal. It wasn’t illegal in June 1967 and it’s not illegal today.

      • talknic on December 22, 2012, 3:30 am

        Obsidian “The ICJ never said that the occupation is illegal. Illegal settlement building probably, but certainly not the occupation itself”

        The ICJ can only give an opinion on the question/s asked. They weren’t the question/s it was asked.

      • Hostage on December 22, 2012, 7:30 am

        The ICJ can only give an opinion on the question/s asked. They weren’t the question/s it was asked.

        Of course, Judge Higgins took the view that the fact the Court discovered an illegal situation while delivering an advisory opinion made no difference in the legal consequences – which she described as legally binding. The wrongdoer always has an obligation to act to restore a situation of legality:

        “A binding determination made by a competent organ of the United Nations to the effect that a situation is illegal cannot remain without consequence.” She said “That an illegal situation is not to be recognized or assisted by third parties is self-evident . . . Although in the present case it is the Court, rather than a United Nations organ . . . that has found the illegality; and although it is found in the context of an advisory opinion rather than in a contentious case, the Court’s position as the principal judicial organ of the United Nations suggests that the legal consequence for a finding that an act or situation is illegal is the same.

        — See Her Opinion in Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory

        She also noted that the Palestinians were entitled to their territory and their State.

      • Obsidian on December 23, 2012, 7:37 am

        The Court refrained from declaring that Israel’s occupation of the West Bank was illegal. This is particularly pertinent since one judge did make such a declaration in his separate opinion. See, Separate Opinion of Judge Nabil Elaraby, Section III.

      • Cliff on December 23, 2012, 4:13 pm

        What was the question posed to the court. That would explain more than your diversion.

      • Mooser on December 23, 2012, 6:40 pm

        Cliff, don’t ever hire Obsidian to paint your floors. Well, unless one bare corner and footprints is in your decorating scheme.

        Is ‘I-may-have-robbed-the-bank-but-I-parked-my-car-legally-while-doing-so’ a defense I should keep in mind for my next trial?

      • talknic on December 24, 2012, 3:24 am

        Uh huh. You failed to accredit your plagiarism and it provides links to no where

        Dr. Robbie Sabel really does come up with some nonsense

        “Not only does the ICJ Opinion ignore the Jordanian presence in the territories, from 1948 till 1967”

        Which was by agreement with Israel under the 1949 Armistice Agreement. Perhaps he just doesn’t understand the word agreement.

        He goes on : “it studiously ignores the salient provisions of the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine”

        The Lon Mandate for Palestine expired midnight May 14th 1948 Palestine time.

        “.. the ICJ says absolutely nothing about the fact that the League of Nations Mandate referred to “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people” and that this injunction was understood at the time by the League of Nations and by the British Mandatory Power as applying to the whole of Palestine west of the River Jordan, that is, including the present-day West Bank”
        The Mandate was superseded by the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel and its subsequent recognition, which did not include the West Bank or any other “territory outside the State of Israel”

        That ol’ ziocaine sure f^&ks with people’s brains.

        //Dr. Robbie Sabel lectures in international law at Hebrew University and is a former legal adviser to the Israeli Foreign Ministry//

        No wonder Israel has itself in an inextricable legal situation with its illegal ‘facts on the ground’

        I’d love to debate the poor fellow

      • Obsidian on December 24, 2012, 1:56 pm

        If I am legally evicting a tenant, and I am parked illegally, or even if I assault the tenant, that doesn’t render the court ordered eviction illegal.


  8. WeAreAllMadeOfStars on December 20, 2012, 7:29 am

    Annie, I have a little problem with your post (and comments). Actually not necessarily only yours : The town’s Arabic is name Al-Khalil not Hebron. By pure respect for the Palestinian inhabitants and their struggle I never use the occupiers’ name when I mention this city. Hebron is also the name used in French and probably in English but still I think we owe it to all the people of Palestine to call their towns and villages by their real name. I have much less of a trouble about Jerusalem because of its kind of international status.
    Please don’t take this personally Annie. This is a great post as is generally the case when you write.

    • annie on December 20, 2012, 12:55 pm

      The town’s Arabic is name Al-Khalil not Hebron.
      i knew that, actually learned it translating the videotographer’s notes at youtube as well as translating twitter feeds. however referencing Al-Khalil as hebron is an editorial choice due to the recognition factor. this is something perhaps we should discuss further, consider in the future. i really didn’t know this before and definitely meant no ill will. thanks for your graceful comment WeAreAllMadeOfStars, to call our attention.

      • Rusty Pipes on December 20, 2012, 7:05 pm

        I would support adding the arabic name in parentheses rather than replacing it. If an object of the site is to raise awareness about Palestine and human rights, then using the same place names that Americans hear in the MSM helps low information readers/lurkers make the connection more easily.

      • eljay on December 20, 2012, 8:32 pm

        >> I would support adding the arabic name in parentheses rather than replacing it. If an object of the site is to raise awareness about Palestine and human rights, then using the same place names that Americans hear in the MSM helps low information readers/lurkers make the connection more easily.

        +1 to that very pragmatic suggestion.

    • Kathleen on December 20, 2012, 3:15 pm

      Al Khalil had no idea but not surprised. Thank you. WeAreAllMadeOfStars are you sure that this is what the majority of Palestinians would prefer? It makes sense but do you know if that is so?

      • annie on December 20, 2012, 7:58 pm

        thanks for your suggestion rusty.

      • wondering jew on December 20, 2012, 8:51 pm

        I passed through Hebron only once and didn’t stop. At the time I had no idea its Arabic name was el-khalil.

        I suppose I learned that name when I was learning Arabic and read the name of the Jaffa Gate in Arabic for the first time. It is called Bab el Khalil, or Hebron gate. El Khalil, means the beloved, as in Abraham or Ibrahim, that is considered to be buried in that city. I believe the Biblical verses contain the name Hevron, so given the fact that the story is first told using the name Hebron, there is also some validity to call it by that name. I assume Hebron comes from khaver as in “shalom, khaver,” that Clinton wished Rabin after he had been dispatched from our plane of existence.

        The Jaffa gate- to the northwest is Jaffa, to the south west is Hebron. The Arabs (can I use the term in this context rather than Palestinians which would be an anachronism) called it by the town in the interior and the English and Hebrew name is called by the port town that leads out.

      • Mooser on December 23, 2012, 6:49 pm

        “that Clinton wished Rabin after he had been dispatched from our plane of existence.”

        Why all the obfuscation, Yonah? Having trouble saying:
        Yigal Amir , a young religious Israeli Sephardi Jew, allegedly shot him at close range
        Was that too hard to type? Always glad to help.

        Yonah, you can’t change the truth by changing words. People reluctantly gave that idea up when it didn’t work. Yes, it’s a very appealing idea, and I love it myself, but it doesn’t work.

    • WeAreAllMadeOfStars on December 21, 2012, 2:27 am

      I spent a day touring Al-Khalil and its (in)famous neighborhood years ago and this is where I learnt about its Arabic name. To answer to Kathleen, I can’t speak on behalf of the Palestinian people, so I can’t be 100% sure that Al-Khalil would be the preferred name but I know its mine ;-)

      I agree with Rusty Pipes and Eljay on the pragmatic aspect, but I must honestly say that it would still hurt my fingers and my heart to put the name in parentheses. To me that’s “Hebron” that should placed in parentheses. Just like occupation will be a parentheses in history that is !

      To Annie, I was touched by your last sentence

  9. annie on December 20, 2012, 12:56 pm

    as an aside, i really hope people open and watch the first three videos of the series. they are definitely exceptional imho.

  10. YoungMassJew on December 20, 2012, 10:40 pm

    Of course when this third intifada starts my FB news feed will be filled with my Jewish “friends”(well some are actually real friends that I’m close to which makes it all the more painful) defending the indefensible, in full support of the IDF operation that kills scores of innocent civilians. My birthrighters will be armed with their “facts”, Israeli birthrighers in particular, with videos of NeoCon Dennis Prager, telling us American Jews to tell the world that Israel doesn’t kill kids. It’s their life’s mission to convince people that Israel doesn’t target civilians. And when I post a well written and researched story like Annie’s, people will call me a “cowgirl” or to “lay off the Noam Chomsky.” The problem we all have is convincing people, especially Jews, that Jews actually do that,as seafoid has stated before. People just can’t wrap their minds around the fact that an historical victim has become the oppressor. That’s the main reason this conflict has dragged on for as long as it has in my opinion. It’s the constant assertion that “Jews don’t do that!” Jewish Americans by and large don’t want to believe their fellow tribesmen would deliberately provoke a 3rd intifada. Thats something only a Christian or a Muslim would do they would say. Goyim Nache if you will. There’s so high on their chosenness, so attached to their belief that they are smarter because they are doctors and scientists afterall and thus a Jewish country would never engage in activites reminicent of 1930s fascist states. I don’t know how we’ll ever convince them. These Jewish Israeli supporters are so smug and arrogant.

    • Mooser on December 21, 2012, 11:00 am

      YMJ, as long as you know the score, and the facts, that’s the most important thing. I might suggest that it’s better and more important for you to know, and to act on your knowledge than it is to change anybody else’s mind. What does your knowledge, your awareness compel you to do? Or are you sure the oppression will never be directed at you?

      • Citizen on December 21, 2012, 2:45 pm

        @ Mooser,

        What should YMJ do that you do to act on his awareness? He’s already a commenter on MW. Do you do something more yourself that you want YMJ to do? If so, what? Just asking.

      • Mooser on December 21, 2012, 7:39 pm

        “What should YMJ do that you do to act on his awareness?”

        What should he do that I do? God Forbid! I wouldn’t wish that on anybody. I was getting avuncular, and telling him to take care of himself. And I’m not even sure if YMJ is a “him” after the “cowgirl” reference. Now it could be a ‘her’. But when it comes to avuncularity, I am strictly equal-opportunity.
        Take care of yourself, YMJ, and don’t take any wooden rhetoric.

      • Mooser on December 23, 2012, 7:29 pm

        “What should YMJ do that you do to act on his awareness?”

        Citizen the most fundamental change affecting Jews positively in the last two-thousand years is the acceptance of Jews as undifferentiated citizens in the United States. As “persons” (unfortunately, we’ve had, and still have, too many ‘non-persons here) not “Jews”. Now for the first time a Jew was free to not be a Jew if he so desired, or to shape his association with Judaism in any way he(or she) pleased. And this gave us the freedom, for the first time, to be Jews. It’s a freedom every Jew needs (every person does, actually) and it’s a freedom every Jew should take advantage of, every way he can, we have a lot of catching up to do. Just my opinion.
        Israel is no advance for Jews, it’s repetition of a two-thousand year’s of mistakes
        And I am going to look askance (if I can’t get close enough to swing) at anyone who thinks I should give up that freedom. Now that some non-Jews want to take it, I can understand, if not like. But that Jews wish to take it (my status as individual) away from me? I would never, ever deny a Jew that freedom in any wise, in fact would make sure he knows he (or she) had it, why on earth would any Jew want to deny it to me?
        Because, the other situation, where the State (such as it was) decided who was Jewish and identified as (damn, damn damn this caps lock key!) such, and either obligated or excluded as such, with the connivance of Jewish “leaders”, benefited certain Jews, and gave them power. And they are loath to give it up, so loath, that even when the imposition doesn’t exist legally, they try to induce it psychologically, which means corruption. That’s the only reason I can think of, and it’s not a good one. Just my opinion
        Don’t say I said this, but it seems to me that Judaism has never really made the transition (in several psychological aspects too, but let it pass) from the position and procedures and functions it had as an imposed identity and religion, to what it might be as a freely accepted association. Just my opinion.
        Why couldn’t the same things which benefited American Jews so much as individuals benefit the religion (and with that you get culture, too!)
        Anyway, finding YMJ comment’s appealing, I sorta though I might bring it up. It scares me that a Jew might not know the nature of this, and there’s a bunch of people out there trying to obfuscate it as much as possible: For instance, when a person posits that Americans may have an anti-Semitic holocaust, there is an implicit assumption that they know who you are! So they are using the confusion about Jewish identity, the real confusion which does exist (within Jews and between Jews and non-Jews) to sow fear, anxiety and more confusion. We’ve had plenty of that, but I think some Jews grew to like it. I wonder why.

  11. annie on December 21, 2012, 2:46 am

    translating comments on the ‘intifada’ video people pointed out one of the characters is laughing at 3:19 in the video. i watched it a few times and sure enough.

  12. Obsidian on December 23, 2012, 7:23 am

    Hamas seeks West Bank intifada in order to seize control, says Sunday Times.

    Quoting senior Fatah member and former head of Palestinian general intelligence General Tawfik Tirawi as saying that “Hamas wants intifada [uprising]” and “will take over the West Bank.”

    • talknic on December 24, 2012, 4:32 am

      Obsidian … JPost claims the information is from the Sunday Times. Have you checked the Sunday Times?

      When you do, please link to the Sunday Times article …. thx

    • annie on December 27, 2012, 7:08 am

      obsidean, you forgot this part: “According to the report, citing the Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) and the Aman military intelligence service, Hamas, at the behest of Iran, was preparing to seize power in the West Bank as it did in Gaza in a 2007 civil war.”

      hamas doesn’t have to seize power, they were democratically elected in both gaza and the WB.

  13. annie on December 23, 2012, 8:46 am

    Amro says residents in Hebron are not used to regularly hearing live ammunition being fired. Since Israeli politicians began talking about giving soldiers more freedom to use live bullets, they say they now hear it almost on a daily basis.

  14. annie on December 27, 2012, 7:10 am

    WEST BANK, December 27, 2012 (WAFA) – Israeli forces Thursday arrested 10 Palestinians from across the West Bank, said security sources.

    They told WAFA that soldiers arrested five Palestinians from the Hebron governorate, south of the West Bank; three of them are from Beit Ummar.

    The arrests came after raiding and inspecting several houses in the town of Yatta and the old city.

    Media spokesperson of the National Committee against the Wall and Settlements in Beit Ummar, Yousef Abu Maria, told WAFA that Israeli soldiers arrested a 14-year-old child and two others aged 16 after raiding their homes and inspecting them, tampering with their contents.

    Israeli Force also raided several neighborhoods in Hebron and erected checkpoints at the entrances of the surrounding towns and villages, pulling over residents and inspecting their personal papers.

    Security sources added that Israeli soldiers arrested two brothers in Jenin and inspected another resident’s house while interrogated its owners.

    In Bethlehem, Israeli soldiers arrested three Palestinians from the town of Beit Fajjar, south of Bethlehem.

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