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Israel’s real fear: shift in balance of power with a normalized Iran

Israel/Palestine
on 92 Comments

BVMjPXiCIAEs0dyRouhani arrives in NY Rouhani in Manhattan with Iranian ambassador

In the wake of the Iranian opening — see photos tweeted by Rouhani account of the president’s arrival in NY, travels with his Foreign Minister, after historic phone conversation with Obama– many Israelis are completely beside themselves, but no one is taking them very seriously. The boy has cried wolf too many times. They simply cannot bring themselves to see any kind of opportunity in peace.

Here’s a blast from the past. As the American Enterprise Institute’s Danielle Pletka stated, it’s the prospect that Iran will be considered normal–and accepted– that is the most dangerous to the neoconservatives and other friends of Israel.

The biggest problem for the United States is not Iran getting a nuclear weapon and testing it, it’s Iran getting a nuclear weapon and not using it. Because the second that they have one and they don’t do anything bad, all of the naysayers are going to come back and say, “See, we told you Iran is a responsible power. We told you that Iran wasn’t getting nuclear weapons in order to use them immediately…we told you Iran wasn’t seeking regional influence or regional hegemony..” And they will eventually define Iran with nuclear weapons as not a problem.

 

 

annie
About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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92 Responses

  1. HarryLaw
    HarryLaw
    September 28, 2013, 11:17 am

    I wish I could be optimistic on this, but since the US has had sanctions on Iran since 1979, Iran’s pursuit of nuclear energy is not the real reason for US intransigence, AIPAC’s bottom line is NO enrichment full stop, I’m with MJ Rosenberg on this, he say’s AIPAC can get the names of 74 Senators on a table mat within 24 hours [only 74] http://mjayrosenberg.com/2013/09/25/aipac-sets-out-to-defeat-obama-on-iran/ can Obama take on the Lobby and win? I doubt it, but things will certainly be interesting over the next 6 months.

  2. kma
    kma
    September 28, 2013, 11:20 am

    this is not a shift in power, and Israel’s interest is the rate of ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

    • Bandolero
      Bandolero
      September 28, 2013, 6:04 pm

      kma

      … Israel’s interest is the rate of ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

      I totally agree with you on this.

      I think: The whole “Iran threat” talking point of the Israel and the lobby is mainly a deception, whether it is in the form of “Iran nuclear threat,” “Iran power balance shift threat” or whatever “Iran threat.” The real interest of the Israeli regime is to grab as much land as possible before it is forced to peace and any deception to cover up this reality is welcome. The time frame for Israel to grab more land will end when China is the leading power in the world thereby overpowering the Israel lobby in the US and Europe. But as long as the Israel lobby rules, Israel is going to take whatever land it can get, using for whatever cover it can get to do this.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        September 29, 2013, 5:00 am

        @ Bandolero

        RE: ” The time frame for Israel to grab more land will end when China is the leading power in the world thereby overpowering the Israel lobby in the US and Europe. ”

        A recent world-wide poll shows some of the world thinks China is already number one economically; it’s GDP has been in double digits for 3o years–compare that to the USA’s contrary trajectory.

        The U.S. National Intelligence Council released a report last year that offers a series of prognostications about how the world might change in coming decades.
        One of its attention-grabbing assertions: China’s economy will surpass that of the U.S. by 2030.
        “China alone will probably have the largest economy, surpassing that of the United States a few years before 2030,” the report said.

        You can be sure Israel tracks China’s rise constantly; recall Netanyahu visited China a few months ago. He worked hard to expand the expanding relationship. At this rate, Israel has a few years less than two decades to grab the remaining Palestinian land. Off the top of my head, that seems a feasible goal in that time frame in light of the rate of settlement expansion, but I’d like to see somebody do the numbers on it.

      • Bandolero
        Bandolero
        September 29, 2013, 1:14 pm

        Citizen

        The U.S. National Intelligence Council released a report last year that offers a series of prognostications about how the world might change in coming decades. One of its attention-grabbing assertions: China’s economy will surpass that of the U.S. by 2030.

        Nobody can exactly predict when it will be that China’s economy will surpass that of the U.S. because there are lot’s of unknown variables going into this. But the time may be much earlier than 2030, maybe already 2018. If so, in 2030 China’s economy may already well be more than the doubled size than that of the U.S. and a lot larger than the combined economies of the G7.

        While it’s unclear what the consequences of this change will be for Israel, it is pretty clear that the whole table of the current international order based on the Washington consensus will be turned around then. Interesting could be the tool of so-called secondary sanctions. I think, China is smarter than the U.S. but just imagine, in 2030 China-led BRICS controlling some 70% of the global economy impose sanctions on everyone dealing with Israel, just like the U.S. currently use secondary sanctions to target Iran today.

      • pineywoodslim
        pineywoodslim
        September 29, 2013, 8:43 pm

        Thus far, China hasn’t shown much interest in using its economic prowess for political advantage, unlike the US.

        I’m not sure that foreign intervention will become part of China’s agenda even when it becomes the world’s largest economy, so I wouldn’t project that just because China displaces the US economically, means that it assumes the US model as the world’s cop, taking the lead in areas that don’t directly affect its security or economic interests.

      • MRW
        MRW
        September 29, 2013, 11:00 pm

        @pineywoodslim

        Thus far, China hasn’t shown much interest in using its economic prowess for political advantage, unlike the US.

        If it did, you would never know. It would accomplish it another way.

        No one knows that China made the decision to replace America as the manufacturing superpower in December 1979 by specifically moving production from America to China. That’s when they set up the first Free Trade Zone in Shenzhen, the first established by China. They understood American ‘individual’ greed supersedes concern for the health of society, an important value in China, and took advantage of it. They invited American companies to c’mon down. And once they had their supply lines, customer lists, QA procedures, and technological methods, they didn’t re-up the contracts. The Chinese went across the street and opened factories of their own.

        Now they are doing it again by creating another free zone for US tech firms to relocate to China. The companies will go, then three years in, China will change the rules, and our technical advantage will be theirs.

        Americans are as dumb as paint. They don’t know the difference between global and gobble. The Chinese are gobbling us up.

      • Bandolero
        Bandolero
        September 29, 2013, 11:52 pm

        I, too, doubt, that China will use it’s economic might as foolish as the US does it. However there is no question that China does use it already for political ends.

        As Hillary Clinton in 2012 explicitely called on all nations to bring up pressure on all members of the Syrian support axis Iran-Russia-China, China suspects that Japan is making “island trouble” as part of a US strategy to punish China for it’s cooperation with Iran and Syria.

        And read here how China put Japan back in the box:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_China_anti-Japanese_demonstrations#Economic_impact

        That is how China is using it’s economic might in the form of market access, today, and very real.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        September 30, 2013, 10:50 am

        Bibi visited China recently, working hard to established better trade and policy relations with China–Zionist parasites jump en masse to a new host as needed, from England, to France, to USA; next to China, the new favored economic powerhouse. There are signs continually popping up just how hard Israel is working on its new target big host, for example:

        Technion to set up institute in China – New technological institution to be established in Guangdong province in cooperation with Shantou University thanks to $130-million donation from Chinese billionaire Li Ka-shing’s fund. ‘Chinese admire Israel’s innovation ability,’ says Technion president. (Ynet)

        Center for Israel studies to open in China
        Academic ties between Israel, China tighten as research center for contemporary Israel is expected to be established
        Telem Yahav
        Published: 09.29.13, 15:22 / Israel News

    • asherpat
      asherpat
      September 28, 2013, 8:15 pm

      @kma

      and what is thus “rate of ethnic cleansing of Palestine”?

      Can you provide some numbers please, or is it just the automatic Israel-is-evil stab in the dark?

      • tree
        tree
        September 29, 2013, 4:57 am

        aherpat, do you you just come here to make snide and ignorant comments? Maybe you should start reading some of the articles here, like this one from yesterday:

        http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/ground-index-volume.html

        On September 24, the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) condemned Israel’s ongoing destruction of Bedouin homes and other structures, particularly in the Negev in southern Israel as part of the so-called “Prawer Plan” that threatens 40,000 people, and in occupied East Jerusalem. A spokesperson for OHCHR warned: “These mass demolitions raise serious concerns about the prohibition on forced evictions under international human rights law, and Israel’s obligations to respect, protect and fulfill the rights of Palestinians to adequate housing and freedom from arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy, family and home.”

        On September 16, Israeli forces demolished the village of Makhoul in the northern Jordan Valley in the occupied West Bank, rendering 48 Palestinians, including 17 children, homeless. Israeli forces also confiscated humanitarian supplies and tents. Two days later, on September 18, Israeli forces destroyed a tent encampment set up by the people of Makhoul. The evictions and demolitions in Makhoul garnered international media attention after Israeli forces roughed up French diplomats and confiscated aid that they were attempting to deliver.

        On September 11, Israeli authorities destroyed the steel structure dwellings of 10 Palestinian families in al-Zaayyem in occupied East Jerusalem, as well as structures used to house sheep and poultry. Approximately 100 people, most of them children, were reportedly made homeless. Israeli authorities claimed the structures were built without permits, however building permits are almost impossible for Palestinians to obtain in East Jerusalem and most of the West Bank.

        And the report goes on. I suggest you read it, and all the other numerous reports here on the destruction of Palestinian homes and villages by the Israeli government and then kindly STFU.

      • amigo
        amigo
        September 29, 2013, 6:37 am

        “Can you provide some numbers please, or is it just the automatic Israel-is-evil stab in the dark?”asherpat

        I can,t seem to find that response in the Hasbara handbook.

        Maybe I don,t have the latest copy.Can you provide me a link.

        Oh by the way, much of the Ethnic cleansing is done “in the Dark”.
        You just need to come out into the light and open your eyes.

      • quercus
        quercus
        September 29, 2013, 10:10 am

        @asherpat. Just lately, in fact, there have been articles in Haaretz of all places, that bastion of anti-semitism, about Bedouin being removed from where they live. How long now, before we start to hear the phrase “the so-called Bedouin people”? How long now before yet another grou hates the Zionists? How long before we hear the Zionists begin to whine yet again, about anti-semitism and questioning why they are hated, while trying, unsuccessfully, to convince the world how wonderful, noble, and great they are?

        Stick a sock in it, asherpat.

      • American
        American
        September 29, 2013, 2:39 pm

        asherpat says:
        September 28, 2013 at 8:15 pm

        @kma

        and what is thus “rate of ethnic cleansing of Palestine”?>>>>>>

        Do you deny that there are some in the Isr government that are calling for ‘cleansing or explusion? Dont bother — we know there are and they would do it “IF” they could be assured of getting away with it.

        BUT that is not even THE POINT.
        The point is that what Isr is doing even without a ‘final solution’ is and has been a series of crimes.
        Go to Jail.

  3. Castellio
    Castellio
    September 28, 2013, 11:43 am

    IMHO, we will see a shift from the radical Zionists to a “long game”.

    There are two critical areas: financing and control of the Congress both for the next midterms and the next White House; retrenching AIPAC while trying to find some kind of base-line alliance with J Street.

    Israeli backed black ops in Syria, Lebanon and Iran will increase, not lessen, as will the persecution and cleansing of all “foreign elements” in Israel.

  4. Krauss
    Krauss
    September 28, 2013, 1:17 pm

    Fundamentally, the conflict was always a conflict in power.
    A simple power struggle.

    I believe Iran will have the capability to have nukes and they will make sure to get some of their own, and of course they won’t use them.
    They will get nukes simply because then Israel won’t be able to push them around in the same manner as before.

    But I also think they understand going the North Korea route isn’t really beneficial.
    They want to get nukes but in a way that doesn’t alienate them from the rest of the world. It’d be the best of both worlds for them.

    I don’t think we should romanticize this opening; Iran is a pretty horrible state for gays, women and ethnic minorities to begin with. But the point is that Israel is hardly a beacon of light and if there’s a parity of power, then that might actually make the middle east more peaceful as no side feels it can decivesively win in a war.

    Israel is so far the only nuclear power which gives them confidence in an attack. If all else fails they can just rattle with their (nuclear) saber, they have nuclear submarines, thanks to Germany, as well as nuclear F-16s.

    With Iran going nuclear, you’ll get a standoff between the two major powers.
    The danger is that Turkey, Saudi Arabia and so on will also try to go nuclear.

    It’s not hard to see a Western interest in seeing Iran not going nuclear in this scenario, the problem is any military solution would crash the world economy and just delay, not eradicate, the program.

    • Ron Edwards
      Ron Edwards
      September 28, 2013, 2:58 pm

      The flaw in that analysis is that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program, and that contrary to popular belief, such a program cannot be whipped up out of fairy dust even when high-quality enrichment is available. Particularly not when you include long-range delivery systems and security against pre-emptive attacks of all kinds. I’ve read a lot of “But it would make sense if Iran went for nukes” posting, and none of them seem to get that the issue has received severe investigation and analysis – and come up empty. The only positives in the form of vague and compromised semi-hints come to the U.S. intelligence analysis system via an “unnamed intelligence service,” which is not hard to guess considering only one nations’ services are ever euphemized in this way, and this service is widely derided by intelligence analysts as frequent and blatant fabricators. That these not-even-good hints have apparently formed an unshakeable platform for our State Department and general executive policy is nothing less than a travesty. It is therefore unseemly, as I see it, for informed commentators to go into the blind alley of “Iran with nukes,” pro or con, valid or invalid, legitimate or illegitimate, rational or irrational. Dance in that alley and you buy into the “unnamed intelligence service’s” master’s game.

      • Krauss
        Krauss
        September 29, 2013, 7:30 pm

        Ron, any nation with an advanced nuclear program can get a bomb very quickly. De-nuclearized states such as Sweden could conceive a nuclear bomb within months if they wanted to, but of course, why would Sweden want to get a nuclear weapon when they are in NATO and since there are already numerous European states with nukes to begin with?

        North Korea showed this before.

        As I said, I do not think the risk of Iran getting a nuclear bomb is them using it. They’re a rational political actor and they will use the bomb to change the political calculus in the region. The danger is the nuclear arms race that will follow and as many failed or semi-failed nation-states in the region get some of the technology, nuclear proliferation becomes a nightmare.

        (But this isn’t, as I said before, a reason to attack militarily. The best option is to delay by pretending to wanting to strike, which is what Obama and those before him have been doing for 20-odd years now).

    • ziusudra
      ziusudra
      September 29, 2013, 4:52 am

      Greetings Krauss,
      The first to get a Club was momentarily the King.
      Eventually the other dude copied the Club equalizing
      the situation. They then went into physical Training
      swing the Club longer. New weaponry was developed
      to get the edge or the equalizer.
      Till today mankind strives on to get the edge on his
      preceived foes. Iran geeting the Nuke won’t be the
      ultimate stalemate for peace & harmony in the world.
      ziusudra
      PS We needn’t even get rid of Israel, just the ideology
      of Zionism, till the next ideology springs up anywhere
      in the world.

  5. Kathleen
    Kathleen
    September 28, 2013, 1:37 pm

    The I lobby has stood in the way of real negotiations with Iran for decades. A real breath of fresh air.

    Annie, Phil …on All Things Considered last night Robert Siegel interviewed one of the top guns in the Egyptian government about what has taken place there the last year. Some twisted hooey about Obama’s speech at the UN including comments about Egypt demonstrate that the American people get it that millions of Egyptian people wanted Morsi gone (hell millions of us (marched, protested, lobbied) wanted Bush gone but the U.S. military did not conduct a coup even when the Supreme Court selected Bush and team) Spiegel actually put Mubarak and Morsi in the same boat by saying both had been removed…but failed to whisper that Morsi was elected. Failed to ask or mention that the Egyptian military gunned down protesters protesting the military coup. Recommend listening to that interview. Robert Siegel played softball

  6. just
    just
    September 28, 2013, 2:34 pm

    “Iran is a pretty horrible state for gays, women and ethnic minorities to begin with.”

    Neither is the US a paragon of virtue wrt any of those groups– we still have a long way to go.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      September 29, 2013, 5:12 am

      @ justin
      Compared to whom, Holland? And some Scandinavian countries?

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        September 29, 2013, 5:32 am

        I just checked on LGBT rights by country at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory

        You’re right, the US is no paragon in this area of civil rights, far from it.

        The leaders: Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Holland, Denmark

        Next best: Brazil, Columbia

        Pretty good: Israel, Austria, Croatia, Czech, UK

        Not too bad: Germany, Hungary

        All other countries–those concerned about full LGBT rights wouldn’t want to live there.

  7. Sycamores
    Sycamores
    September 28, 2013, 2:42 pm

    besides israel there are other regional powers that would be not to happy to see a normalize Iran

    • Kathleen
      Kathleen
      September 28, 2013, 3:15 pm

      by other regional powers not happy are you implying Saudi Arabia might not be so happy. Remember when Ron Susskind wrote in his great book “The Price of Loyalty” that Cheney basically slowly ousted Secretary of the Treasury Paul O’Neil when he started digging deep into funding for some of the 9/11 bombers back to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia keeps being jumped over when it comes to any focus on human rights issues..not a mistake

    • Keith
      Keith
      September 28, 2013, 4:28 pm

      SYCAMORES- “besides israel there are other regional powers that would be not to happy to see a normalize Iran

      True enough, and it demonstrates the degree to which the petro monarchies and other Middle East US allies are out of touch with their people, most of whom would welcome a nuclear Iran as a countervailing force to US/Israel aggression. Below I provide a quote and a link to a recent Zogby poll.

      “…support for Iran and its nuclear program appears to have risen over the same period, according to the new survey, the sixth in a series designed by University of Maryland Prof. Shibley Telhami and carried out by Zogby International since 2002.

      Nearly two-thirds, or 64 percent, of more than 4,000 respondents in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) said they held a “very unfavorable” attitude of the United States, up from 57 percent in late 2006, while 19 percent more said their views were “somewhat unfavorable” — roughly comparable to the results of 17 months ago.

      At the same time, support for Iran and its nuclear program appears to have risen over the same period, according to the new survey, the sixth in a series designed by University of Maryland Prof. Shibley Telhami and carried out by Zogby International since 2002.

      The poll found that two-thirds of the Arab public (67 percent) believes Tehran has the right to pursue its nuclear program and that international pressure to freeze it should cease. That compares to 61 percent who took the same position in 2006.

      Remarkably, nearly three out of four Saudi respondents said that if Iran acquired nuclear weapons, it would have “positive” influence on the region, while 51 percent of UAE respondents agreed. Pluralities in Morocco and Egypt took the same position, while pluralities of roughly one-third in Lebanon and Jordan said Tehran’s acquisition of a nuclear weapon it would make no difference.

      The new survey also found that fears regarding both US and Israeli designs in the region have also increased over the past 17 months, despite the length of time that has passed since the summer 2006 Israeli war on Lebanon which inflamed anti-Israeli and anti-western opinion throughout the region.

      Asked to name two countries that, in their view, posed the “biggest threat” to them, a whopping 95 percent and 88 percent of respondents named Israel and the US, respectively. That compared to 85 percent and 72 percent, respectively, in late 2006.
      By comparison, the sense of threat posed by Iran appears to have diminished over the same period. While 11 percent of Arab respondents named Iran as one of the two greatest threats in late 2006, only seven percent did so in the most recent survey.”

      link to electronicintifada.net

  8. Citizen
    Citizen
    September 28, 2013, 2:58 pm

    Iran is big, Iran has oil, Iran has its own base currency as default, not the US dollar, and Iran is pretty cohesive, that is, not the result of colonial powers drawing lines in the sand after WW1. Metternich would’ve had open relations with Iran. The US has harmed itself by choosing instead to make Iran a pariah all these years. The US would benefit a lot if Obama keeps going with new relationship. It’s not like the US doesn’t have good relations with culturally backward states. For example, compare Iran’s progression with the likes of Saudi Arabia or the Arab oil city states, or China. Further, Iran is very strategically located, yes?

    • FreddyV
      FreddyV
      September 29, 2013, 4:02 am

      You’ve pretty much nailed it Citizen.

      Remember the Axis Of Evil nations G.W. spoke about? The one common thread between them was that not one of them is in debt or has any reliance whatsoever on the US Dollar.

    • Ellen
      Ellen
      September 30, 2013, 10:11 am

      Well said, Citizen. And that is exactly why relations with Iran will be normalized over the next decade or so. The economic and strategic interests will drive it and prevail over provincial self interest of a dependent and jealous player.

      Right now it does not appear that Israel’s leadership has the capacity to adjust to a changing world reality to the big picture beyond Israel.

      The pathos (pathology) of Israel’s cultural self understanding is Holocaust, “Anti Semites,” living-in-a-bad-neighborhood, the world-hates-us, on and on. Can Israel break out of that mind-set and grow up, get along with neighbors and become a real country and real independent member of the world community? To do that is counter to the indoctrination and Israeli national self understanding.

      The world will move on and Israel will sit in her room crying everyone “hates me” as she mutters “Holocaust” and “Anti Semites” into her tissue.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        September 30, 2013, 10:18 am

        @ Ellen
        Another question is: Can the US liberal Democrats break out of their PEP mindset, and will they do it in light of sure loss of AIPAC donations and taking major slur hits from the Zionists embedded in the US main media?

        And, will the Libertarians and Tea Party types partner with them on this issue?

  9. Mike_Konrad
    Mike_Konrad
    September 28, 2013, 3:47 pm

    I think Israel’s real fear is getting blown up, one way or the other.

    A nuclear Iran could sustain a nuclear attack from Israel, and survive.

    A nuclear Israel could not sustain an attack from Iran and survive.

    Even if it does not go to nuclear war, Hezbollah and Syria will be enormously emboldened.

    Iran is a menace – not merely to Israel, but to the West.

    Whatever one thinks of Israel, Iran should not be allowed to go nuclear.

    That being said: I am amazed the Ayatollahs do not offer an exchange: Open Dimona, and we will open our facilities.

    The West should not take up such an Iranian offer, but I am amazed the Iranians do not make the offer.

    • Bumblebye
      Bumblebye
      September 28, 2013, 6:09 pm

      Absolute twaddle MK.
      Israel’s real fear is that the world finally will take a look at what it’s been doing to the Palestinians for 65 years and counting, It constantly plays a) the holocaust card and b) the ‘look over there’ card to divert world attention from its own attempted annihilation of a nation (which, of course, via ‘projection’ it claims is the aim of its enemies). If even one of those cards is neutralised, then it can expect a far more severe focus and probable action on its activities (if not from Unka Sam, then more likely from the rest of the world).

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      September 28, 2013, 6:24 pm

      I think Israel’s real fear is getting blown up, one way or the other.

      The public might, but not the leadership. They know there is little chance of Iran launching a nuclear strike on Israel, even if they had nukes.

      Of course they make sure the public is scared out if their wits for political reasons.

      Even if it does not go to nuclear war, Hezbollah and Syria will be enormously emboldened.

      To do what exactly ? It’s not as if their weapons would suddenly be one more deadly as a result.

      Iran is a menace – not merely to Israel, but to the West.

      That ‘ style BS propaganda that Israel has been peddling for decades, but it is no longer credible. 85% of those polled at the right wing Washington Post are in favor of making peace with Iran.

      It’s Israel that us the true menace, which is why they are regarded as the greatest threat to world peace.

      Whatever one thinks of Iran, Israel should never have been allowed to go nuclear.

      I am amazed the Ayatollahs do not offer an exchange: Open Dimona, and we will open our facilities.

      Too late for that. They should have suggested that a decade ago .

      Iran ‘s facilities have been open for more than a decade. If you weren’t so if ignorant, you ‘d know that.

      • Eurosabra
        Eurosabra
        September 29, 2013, 6:50 pm

        That’s interesting because Taxi swears here on a daily basis that all Hezbollah has to do is launch its conventional rockets in “a war Israel cannot win” and will inevitably turn Tel-Aviv into a “smokey hole.” So either Hezbollah is an existential threat or it is not, unlike most of the Israeli security sector I (as a civilian emergency medical technician, when I was there) took it as totally gospel that emergency medicine in Haifa, Tel Aviv, and Jerusalem would have to go underground because of the density of the potential bombardment. Tell Taxi I believe her when she promises a moonscape in place of my homeland, that I have weapons in my home for the endgame, that I have dug myself out of the rubble twice before in the not-so-distant past. As I kept remarking on Helena Cobban’s site, when there is griping about how Israel threatens Lebanon, why is everyone so upset with the fallout of Hezbollah’s overwhelming **success**?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        September 29, 2013, 8:03 pm

        So either Hezbollah is an existential threat or it is not

        According to your logic, that makes Israel is an existential threat to every state in the ME and Europe. Being able to fight back, resist or responding to aggression does not make one an existential threat – unless you are Israel it seems.

        Many Israeli apologists have described Iran as a threat not because it might attack, but because it might respond to an attack.

        Tell Taxi I believe her when she promises a moonscape in place of my homeland, that I have weapons in my home for the endgame, that I have dug myself out of the rubble twice before in the not-so-distant past.

        At least you had a bunker to hide in, unlike the poor Lebanese civilians your IAF heros massacred.

        when there is griping about how Israel threatens Lebanon, why is everyone so upset with the fallout of Hezbollah’s overwhelming **success**?

        Because Hezbollah’s success is no issue until Israel decides to attack Lebanon. If a man goes into a bar and sees a bunch of tough guys that could kick his ass, he doesn’t get to demand they leave just because they might kick his ass if he ends up drunk and picking a fight with them.

        So it’s little wonder why your remark doesn’t get too much traction on Helena Cobban’s site.

      • tree
        tree
        September 29, 2013, 10:04 pm

        Eurosabra, since you seem to think that cancer is a result of bitterness, perhaps you should heed your own warning and give up your own “degradation”( your term). Or is your bitterness some how special and different?

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        September 30, 2013, 11:23 am

        Thank you.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      September 28, 2013, 10:12 pm

      “Israel could not sustain a [nuclear] attack from Iran and survive.”

      A nuclear strike that destroyed Israel would also destroy the Palestinians. Why would Iran destroy them?

      “Iran is a menace – not merely to Israel, but to the West.”

      I ask again. What is Iran threatening to do to the West?

    • eljay
      eljay
      September 28, 2013, 11:12 pm

      >> I think Israel’s real fear is getting blown up, one way or the other.

      So, rather than strive to make peace and avoid getting blown up, the oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel will belligerently continue with its 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder. Very shrewd indeed.

      >> Iran is a menace – not merely to Israel, but to the West.

      Israel is a menace – not merely to Iran and the Middle East, but to the entire Universe!!

      • kma
        kma
        September 29, 2013, 1:27 pm

        exactly. if Israel doesn’t want to be afraid of getting “blown up”, it could
        1) hide behind the empire US and keep it fighting enormous wars, or
        2) STOP threatening other countries, STOP ethnic cleansing Palestinians, STOP doing so many rotten things to other countries, including the US

        most other countries of a few million people watch their behavior when they care about making friends with bigger countries. it isn’t that much to ask. so, Israel’s being afraid of getting “blown up” is NOT an excuse for the US to blow up Iran or Syria. it’s an excuse for Israel to behave itself. IT’S TIME TO GET THAT STRAIGHT.

        as for the Nakba-denier-Hasbara comment near the top of the thread, I always ignore those, but here’s something the propagandists might consider: the US public opinion on zionism is overwhelmingly neutral at best, and contrary to how the media projects a zionist view of the planet, most people in the US have a pretty good idea of why congress sucks donkey dick on national TV for Israel and why US citizens don’t want to send any more of its children to war in the middle east for it. you will not hear this in the NY Times, but it goes on daily around the kitchen tables. too bad for Israel.

      • libra
        libra
        September 30, 2013, 6:41 pm

        eljay: Israel is a menace – not merely to Iran and the Middle East, but to the entire Universe!!

        That’s chutzpah for you. Still, the entire Universe must surely be a bit of an overreach even for plucky little Israel. It’ll be a cliffhanger to the very end, but I’m putting my money on the evil Universalists winning in the final showdown.

    • amigo
      amigo
      September 29, 2013, 8:56 am

      “Iran is a menace – not merely to Israel, but to the West.”mk

      What does the MK stand for, Member of the Knesset.

      You talk just about as much BS and lies.

      Are you home alone?.

  10. Justpassingby
    Justpassingby
    September 28, 2013, 4:01 pm

    “many Israelis are completely beside themselves, but no one is taking them very seriously. The boy has cried wolf too many times.”

    Sorry but you are again too optimistic.

  11. seafoid
    seafoid
    September 28, 2013, 4:25 pm

    The west made up with burma’s generals. Resources are where it is at.

    Iran has oil and there is a lot now cos sanctions meant little was sold. The oil.market is very tight. Resources are where it is at.

    Israel mongers wars. They cost resources.

    Israel has nothing to offer.

  12. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870
    September 28, 2013, 5:06 pm

    RE: “Israel’s real fear: shift in balance of power with a normalized Iran”

    ALSO SEE: “Why Rouhani Is a Nightmare for the Mossad”, By Uri Avnery, Progressive.org, 9/27/13

    [EXCERPT] . . . Even before Rouhani could open his mouth after his election, he was condemned outright by Binyamin Netanyahu.
    A wolf in sheep’s clothing!
    A real anti-Semite!
    A cheat out to deceive the whole world!
    A devious politician whose devilish aim is to drive a wedge between Israel and the naive Americans!
    This is the real Iranian bomb, far more threatening than the nuclear one that will be built behind the smokescreen of Rouhani’s sweet talk!
    A nuclear bomb can be deterred by another nuclear bomb. But how do you deter a Rouhani?
    Yuval Steinitz, our failed former Minister of Finance and at present responsible for our “strategic thinking” (yes, really!), exclaimed in despair that the world wants to be deceived by Iran.
    Binyamin Netanyahu called it a “honey trap.”
    Commentators who are hand-fed by “official circles” (i.e., the Prime Minister’s Office) proclaim that Rouhani is an existential threat.
    All this before he had uttered a word.

    When Rouhani at long last made his Grand Speech at the UN General Assembly, all the dire forebodings were confirmed.
    Where Ahmadinejad had set off a stampede of delegates from the hall, Rouhani packed them in. Diplomats from all over the world were curious about the man. They could have read the speech a few minutes later, but they wanted to see and hear for themselves. Even the United States sent officials to be present. No one left.
    No one, that is, except the Israelis.

    The Israeli diplomats were instructed by Netanyahu to leave the hall demonstratively when the Iranian started to speak.
    That was a stupid gesture, as rational and as effective as a little boy’s tantrum when his favorite toy is taken away.
    Stupid, because it painted Israel as a spoiler, at a time when the entire world is seized by an attack of optimism after the recent events in Damascus and Tehran.
    Stupid, because it proclaims the fact that Israel is at present totally isolated. . .

    LINK – http://www.progressive.org/rouhani-nightmare-for-mossad

  13. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    September 28, 2013, 6:06 pm

    There are other possibilities that can guide future behavior of Israeli citizen. If US no longer could support this country as it has done until now, Israel would be in a pickle. People would leave Israel for richer pastures. Even if nothing’s comes out of current goings on between Iran and US , it still points the arrow towards the decline of US power .Israel will be isolated more and more and sometimes inappropriately and illegally by the same countries that have joined the bandwagon against Iran In politics, countries have interest not loyalty or morality. This will force Israel to do a 180 degree on many fronts. It is the economic reality that will force Israel to reinvent itself . Otherwise it will not survive .It will erase itself by attrition

  14. ivri
    ivri
    September 28, 2013, 6:08 pm

    The Iran saga is still has a long way to go with ups and downs – so will provide a lot of commentary opportunities. The key thing is that Iran is losing its original regional grandeur aspirations – they really hoped to be BIG in the region and surpass Saudi-Arabia and used the “Israeli card” also as a way to get popular with the “Arab Street’ (“your rulers do nothing – see how active and successful we are in fighting the Zionists). For a time it worked, there are always the “initial bravados”, but once the insurgency there took place, Hamas left, Syria is practically lost, the Saudis got into aggressive counter-offensive, the UN nukes agency became more aggressive with its new Japanese head and the sanctions are having an accumulated effect – the “regional dominance” aspirations got buried. So much so that they understand that even the nukes development, which beforehand was expected to make a big difference is rather turning into a liability for them. Hence the recent conciliatory moves – the Big Game is over and small games don`t worth the trouble, and the focus there is now on becoming “normal” again. Problem is, they have already got too much on the nerves of too many and it might be too late for the regime there to be re-accepted regardless of what its true intensions are.

    • annie
      annie
      September 28, 2013, 11:30 pm

      wishful thinking ivri. last i looked, the US just handed them iraq on a platter.

      • Bandolero
        Bandolero
        September 29, 2013, 12:27 am

        I disagree.

        The US didn’t hand Iraq to Iran on a platter.

        Getting the US empire out of Iraq was very hard work of people of the resistance, who had many martyrs.

      • annie
        annie
        September 29, 2013, 1:23 am

        yes, of course. perhaps my meaning was too offhanded, obscure and insensitive. i also didn’t mean it was the intention of the US. but who has the most influence in iraq now, more than as a result of 8 years of war between iraq and iran?

      • OlegR
        OlegR
        September 29, 2013, 6:51 am

        /perhaps my meaning was too offhanded, obscure and insensitive. /

        Annie ,are you apologizing to the guys that killed your country man ?
        Wow .

      • annie
        annie
        September 29, 2013, 9:29 am

        huh? i’m not following you oleg, what guys “killed my country man”? we invaded them, or course they are going to try to kill us. what planet are you on. if you’re asking if i apologized to iraqis the answer would be unequivocally yes, over and over and for the rest of my life i will be apologizing to iraq. http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/iraq-im-sorry.html

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        September 29, 2013, 2:49 pm

        @Bando – – Destruction of Sunni power structure by the US “handed Iraq to Iran, on a platter”. Back in 2003. Withdrawal of US troops not a big factor on this score.

      • Bandolero
        Bandolero
        September 29, 2013, 6:55 pm

        James

        I know the argument which was – as Wikileaks shows us – promoted by Saudi ruler Abdullah since the end of 2005.

        However, I beg to disagree. The US spent trillions of Dollars trying to install a US-aligned puppet regime in Iraq, but the US failed, and that’s not because the US has given Iraq to Iran on a golden platter, but because of the resilience of the resistance. Kicking the US military out of Iraq was the goal and the key to the success. With US military bases still in Iraq, Iraq wouldn’t have become free to defy US pressure and align itself with Iran and the resistance.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        September 30, 2013, 2:38 pm

        @Bando – – I think G W Bush squandered $1 trillion or more on the Iraq fiasco, to avoid admitting his catastrophic incompetence in launching the idiotic invasion in the first place. ZERO chance a stooge gov’t could be installed.

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      September 29, 2013, 1:15 am

      The key thing is that Iran is losing its original regional grandeur aspirations

      Those regional grandeur aspirations only ever existed in the paranoid minds of pro Israeli hawks. Iran hasn’t attacked or invaded any other country in nearly 300 years, so if they had any such aspirations, their procrastination must go down I history as second only to the second conning.

      In fact, the Iranians could not believe their luck when the US removed their biggest adversary and handed them 2/3rds of Iraq on a plate.

      Syria is anything but lost. In fact, it’s a given that the rebels launched the chemical sarin attacks out of desperation to get the US involved and the US and Israel are scared that if Assad were to maintain control of Syria, it would strengthen the Shiite Cresent and unify Iran, Iraq, Syria and Hezbollah unlike anything before.

      the UN nukes agency became more aggressive with its new Japanese head

      Yes, the US sock puppet, Amano, did his job as the poodle, but once the hysteria leading up to the IAEA report had settled, everyone saw through the BS propaganda and lies.

      So much so that they understand that even the nukes development, which beforehand was expected to make a big difference is rather turning into a liability for them.

      Absolute rubbish. There was no nukes development at any stage. Every NIE and intelligence report since 2007 has repeated this fact.5

      Problem is, they have already got too much on the nerves of too many and it might be too late for the regime there to be re-accepted regardless of what its true intensions are.

      On the contrary. The UN was a packed audience during Rouhani’s speech and he has become the great Persian hope for the international community. 85% of those polled at the Washington Post are fully in support of a deal.

      The only spoilers are the Israelis, who walked out of the speech – an orchestrated tantrum that no gave any attention to. When Ahmadinejad gave his speeches, the US, French and British delegation would walk out – this time, the Lord Farquads of the international stage – were left to go it alone.

      Of course, if there was any truth to your bravado – that the Iranians had tested the nerves of too many, then AIPAC wouldn’t be working overtime to try and kill the negotiations before they started.
      http://mjayrosenberg.com/2013/09/25/aipac-sets-out-to-defeat-obama-on-iran/

      And Israeli foreign ministers wouldn’t be so hysterical as to be utterly incoherent with their complaints.

      • just
        just
        September 29, 2013, 1:50 am

        Super comment.

        (I feel terrible and guilty for what we and our co-conspirators have done to the Iraqis, though. I don’t think that Iran wants Iraq in tatters, either– nor Afghanistan, for that matter. I tend to think they would much prefer them as allies and partners.)

      • ivri
        ivri
        September 29, 2013, 8:24 am

        Shingo: “The Un was a packed audience during Rouhani`s speech”
        I think you misinterpret the interest in Rouhani`s talk – the Iran saga and the recent switch there with the election of the new president has made it one of the main shows in town now. Ahmadinejad and Kaddafi used to attract big crowds too. People still yearn for some “entertainment” (even if it is partly macabre) – especially so in the ordinarily boring arena of politics (for instance, one of the main complaints with German politics, as in the recent elections there, is that it is boring…). In fact that is in my view why the Israel-Palestinian conflict has attracted so much attention over the years even though it is in reality a footnote in the world`s, even Arabs`, problems. However, Iraq, Afghanistan and now even more so Syria are gradually killing that – stealing the limelight.

      • annie
        annie
        September 29, 2013, 9:17 am

        ivri, let’s unpack that. according to you rouhani’s speech was popular because people like being entertained, which is why i/p has attracted so much attention, but now Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria (and Iran) are stealing the limelight (more entertaining).

        is that a fair estimation of your argument?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        September 29, 2013, 9:23 am

        I think you misinterpret the interest in Rouhani`s talk – the Iran saga and the recent switch there with the election of the new president has made it one of the main shows in town now.

        No I am not misinterpreting anything, you’re just desperate to spin this to mean something it isn’t. Rouhani’s recent overtures and change in tone have resonated very powerfully with the international community. As I pointed out, in the past, when the Israeli delegation got up to walk out on Ahmadinejad’s speech, the US, France and Britain followed or walking out the same time. In fact, the only reason they attended was to be able to make such a statement. This time, when Israel got up to leave, no one paid any notice.

        Ahmadinejad never attracted by crowds, other than the vocal ones demonstrating his presence at the UN outside the building.

        People still yearn for some “entertainment” (even if it is partly macabre) – especially so in the ordinarily boring arena of politics

        You might be a fan of snuff movies Ivri, but don’t assume others share you tastes.

      • annie
        annie
        September 29, 2013, 9:41 am

        Israeli delegation got up to walk out on Ahmadinejad’s speech, the US, France and Britain followed or walking out the same time.

        presumably because he wasn’t entertaining, according to ivri. i beg to differ!

      • ivri
        ivri
        September 29, 2013, 9:58 am

        Annie, sorry for the shorthand styling: I use “entertaining” here clearly in an ironic sense. More appropriate characterizations would be what “dramatic” or “provocative” and usually also with underlying violence-content. It is a fact (human nature) that these tend to attract attention.

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        September 29, 2013, 10:16 am

        Full auditoriums depending on when and where beg different explanation . One can pay and buy the standing ovation as AIPAC does for dignitaries from Israel to USA. One can rush to AIPAC conference to clap knowing that failure of attendance or clap will take a heavy toll on the country he or she is from.
        Response to AIPAC speech or Israeli Congress by clap is monitored or from glum face is digitized for future analysis by Israeli agents. So technically the attendees in Israeli meetings of any nature in US technically are turned into a claque .

        I-P conflicts generate attention when Palestine or Arab are involved .Arab conflicts generate a lot of interest when they are engaged to violence against each other . Israel does not . Lavon affair,USS liberty, Israeli nukes,diversion and stealing of nuclear material by Israel , Israel- US trade negotiations, IDF fund raising , NSA sharing raw data, Iran -Israel terror nexus, Israel- Central America torture nexus, Fabricating of Passport , the depth of penetration security and intelligence by Comverse or similar outfit assembled and manufactured by joint military industrial entities from Israel, periodic assassinations of Hamas,Hizbullahs, and Iranain scientist by Israel , spying on military ,federal,and state buildings dealing with narcotics within US in 2000 or interfering with US military abroad like in Lebanon in 1980s , or murder in Shabra Shatilla , abnormal and suspicious behaviors in 911, killings in Gaza or Lebanon in 2006 or in Operation Cast lead or periodic demolitions of houses in WB and Jerusalem , constant threatening cant from the neoocons or breaking of rules by Israeli supporters never have generated appropriate corrective response from US or world body .These occurrences were relegated to the footnotes and buried deep in the collective unconscious by the effort of the few.

        Arab issues could have produced same heated discussion in US/West as does other regions -solely guided by the US national interest and economic benefit ( legal or illegal ). But Arab- muslim issues whether Darfur,S Sudan, Libya,Egyptian turmoil or Iranian election or politics , or political situation in Azerbaizan or in Morocco don’t come under the same microscope .These are not run through the same analytic process . They are not vetted from US perspective . Israel decides whether these events should or should not get any sustained western attention.
        Invisible prints-footnotes or screaming headlines are decided and inserted by Israel .

      • just
        just
        September 29, 2013, 10:39 am

        Total BS ivri.

        I call your bluff.

        (stop rubbing your hands in glee at the misfortune of others– it’s really not good form)

      • annie
        annie
        September 29, 2013, 11:52 am

        thanks ivri. given your new description ( “dramatic” or “provocative” and usually also with underlying violence-content.) could you explain why you think rouhani’s speech was so well attended vs ahmadinejad’s? is it just something in rouhani’s nature you find more ‘dramatic, provocative w/ with underlying violence-content’ vs the last prez. i’d think it would be the other way around.

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        September 29, 2013, 12:07 pm

        These non -events become significant for many reasons .One consistent theme is the Israeli angle. What’s in it for Israel? Can something concrete be snatched out of the vague ? Can something be plucked out of the quasi facts, repeated lies ,and unknown unfolding future ?
        Here is the latest example.More sure will follow—

        Israel starts campaign to boost U.S. military aid
        Published: Sept. 27, 2013 at 1:12 PM

        TEL AVIV, Israel, Sept. 27 (UPI) —

        TEL AVIV, Israel, Sept. 27 (UPI) — Israel’s military chiefs are pushing for a bump in the $3.1 billion a year the Jewish state receives in U.S. military aid even though the 10-year agreement doesn’t expire until 2017 and America is struggling with domestic economic issues.

        Among other things, the Israelis are citing a 2008 U.S. law that for the first time legally committed Washington to maintain the Jewish state’s technological superiority — its Qualitative Military Edge, or QME, in military terminology — over its regional adversaries, particularly Iran, which has been pursuing nuclear technology.

        Read more: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2013/09/27/Israel-starts-campaign-to-boost-US-military-aid/UPI-52461380301963/print#ixzz2gIXetLS0

      • ivri
        ivri
        September 29, 2013, 12:50 pm

        Annie: “could you explain why you think Rouhani`s speech was so well attended vs. Ahmedinejad`s”
        With pleasure. The “Iran drama” has been in the world`s political forefront for decades now involving (indirect) wars with Israel through proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, bitter political confrontations with other Arabs, hugely provocative statements on the US and Israel (the Big and Small Satan), constant threats that Israel`s end is near, involvement in the ongoing Syria war, the nuclear drama, the sanctions and what not. Now there appears to be a potential change in direction – isn`t all that enough for people to be curious?
        Generally, Ahmedinejad was also a “hit” and attracted much general attention because of his provocative statements (Cassius Clay style) on Israel and the Holocaust and other things, while in that particular UN appearance he was deliberately snubbed to demonstrate displeasure.

      • ivri
        ivri
        September 29, 2013, 1:03 pm

        Just: “Stop rubbing your hands in glee at the misfortune of others”
        You mean I should feel bad at the downfall of the Islamic Republic in Iran? Sorry, I am not a saint. Never mourned the downfall of the Nazis either

      • annie
        annie
        September 29, 2013, 1:22 pm

        so snubbing ‘demonstrates displeasure’ and speeches are well attended because they are “dramatic”, “provocative” and usually with underlying violence-content. so, iow, no one attends a speech by a leader of iran because they might be supportive of what he has to say, in a peace related way. interesting.

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        September 29, 2013, 1:58 pm

        “while in that particular UN appearance he was deliberately snubbed to demonstrate displeasur”
        so its not all show and tell. Countries are expected to share concerns,learn perspectives,address injustices,and try to understand the position of even the “worst’ as depicted by some in media .
        If it were nothing but hokum and palaver , why Israeli fiance minister is now saying it was a mistake to walk out?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        September 29, 2013, 8:13 pm

        The “Iran drama” has been in the world`s political forefront for decades now involving (indirect) wars with Israel through proxies, Hamas and Hezbollah, bitter political confrontations with other Arabs, hugely provocative statements on the US and Israel (the Big and Small Satan), constant threats that Israel`s end is near, involvement in the ongoing Syria war, the nuclear drama, the sanctions and what not.

        There have never been any threats towards Israel. Predicting the demise of Israel is far from a threat. Those on the West are forever denigrating Islam, Iran and Arab states for being backward and heading towards self destruction and irrelevance.

        In any case, this contradicts your thesis. If these issues have been are the world`s political forefront for decades, then surely Ahmedinejad would have been packing UN auditoriums, so your thesis falls apart under scrutiny.

        Now there appears to be a potential change in direction – isn`t all that enough for people to be curious?

        Of course, but you are the one who ealier claimed that the world had lost patience with Iran, so which is it?

        Generally, Ahmedinejad was also a “hit” and attracted much general attention because of his provocative statements

        Which again, flies directly in the face of your claim that hsi speeches were not well attended.

        It appears you have lost your entire line of argument.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        September 30, 2013, 10:42 am

        @ ivri
        The Nazis attacked dozens of countries and occupied them across Europe, and it attacked Russia too. Iran has neither attacked nor occupied any country in centuries (unlike Israel).

      • talknic
        talknic
        October 1, 2013, 5:18 am

        @ ivri “The “Iran drama” has been in the world`s political forefront for decades”

        Waffle. There were no UNSC resolutions against Iran until the last 5 years or so and they are only based on suspicions, which are not evidence BTW.

        There’s 60 years of UNSC resolutions against Israel’s illegal activities “outside the State of Israel” http://pages.citebite.com/x1r0b4d1y6mkv , based on hard evidence and incriminating Israeli Government statements on the UN record, available for all to see first hand, before they’re ziofied.

        “hugely provocative statements on the US and Israel (the Big and Small Satan)”

        There’s nothing provocative about vowing retaliation against the constant stream of threats and actions from and by the US and Israel.

        “..constant threats that Israel`s end is near”

        Predictions are not threats. The weather girl doesn’t threaten the weather. The UNSC agrees with Iran on the regime illegally in Jerusalem BTW http://wp.me/pDB7k-W8 and has actually threatened to take action, which is more than Iran has.

        “involvement in the ongoing Syria war”

        Uh huh. A) Where did the military gear suddenly in the hands of Syrian militants come from? B) Allies are ALLOWED to assist each other C) all States have a right to seek, have and use defensive weapons. D) When it’s arms for Israel it’s called Military aid

        “the nuclear drama”

        The drama is fabricated. There is no evidence of a nuclear arms desire or implementation

        “now involving (indirect) wars with Israel through proxies”

        Israel, in receiving military aid, is a US proxy by your own standard

        “Ahmedinejad was also a “hit” and attracted much general attention because of his provocative statements”

        What provocative statements? There are none unless you twist, truncate or other wise fail to quote him in context and in full.

        Meanwhile Israel repeats a long list of blatant lies http://wp.me/pDB7k-BP
        http://wp.me/pDB7k-nO

        ” while in that particular UN appearance he was deliberately snubbed to demonstrate displeasure”

        Listen to the applause at the UN for Iran, Palestine and then the pathetic, applause Israel received http://wp.me/pDB7k-TM

    • kma
      kma
      September 29, 2013, 1:47 pm

      the key thing may be that Iran is telling US/Israel that it isn’t likely to physcially defend the Palestinians. Syria’s defenses are being destroyed, and if Iran decides that Palestinians aren’t worth taking sides over, then Iran has very little to quarrel over and everything to gain by joining the fold.

      this would mean that the power balance is still heavily the US.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        September 29, 2013, 8:06 pm

        the key thing may be that Iran is telling US/Israel that it isn’t likely to physcially defend the Palestinians.

        It never has made that commitment.

  15. James Canning
    James Canning
    September 28, 2013, 6:54 pm

    I continue to believe there is zero chance Obama would allow Iran to build nukes.

    • just
      just
      September 29, 2013, 2:08 am

      Iran is not building nukes.

      And who is Obama or the US to disallow anyone on the planet from doing so? What’s going to happen, another grand debacle of killing and suffering orchestrated by us and our allies against millions of people? Oh, and by the way, uh, we used nukes and Israel’s got them.

      Normalization is the ONLY sane way forward. So is ridding all nations of the damnable WMDs that should be outlawed first and foremost by those that beat their breasts as great democracies and dedicated to the rule of law. Ptooey on us hypocrites.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        September 29, 2013, 2:44 pm

        Pressuring Israel to get rid of its nukes should take priority surely.

  16. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    September 29, 2013, 2:10 am

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/09/27/the_obstructionist_benjamin_netanyahu_israel_iran?page=0,1

    Interesting.same observation like this articles by Daniel Levy only more harsher and detailed. Hegemony is not sustainable.

  17. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    September 29, 2013, 2:19 am

    It seems Russia might have something to do with the rendezvous between US and Iran. If Russia can get so riled up over Syria,chances are it would get absolutely paranoid. Now of any more jingoism against Iran would ake it feel existentially vulnerable Obama might have sensed something here like the possibility of Russia reneging on previous agreements on Iran and unilaterally starting business with Iran. That would destroy the foundation of sanction and isolation with US nothing gaing in return. This volte face by US needs more sober analysis and patience . Given the rhetoric s from AIPAC and Israel, it is possible that either they are doing the ritualistic saber rattling or the fast moving events left them far behind beyond their faintest imagination.

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      September 29, 2013, 2:45 pm

      @Trian – – Russia, quite sensibly, wants a negotiated resolution of nuclear dispure with Iran, and civil war in Syria.

  18. just
    just
    September 29, 2013, 4:26 am

    “Given the rhetoric s from AIPAC and Israel, it is possible that either they are doing the ritualistic saber rattling or the fast moving events left them far behind beyond their faintest imagination.”

    It’s both.

    “Game’s” up. A nasty one fostered by Zionists and their allies.

    (jmho)

  19. piotr
    piotr
    September 29, 2013, 4:43 am

    From my favorite Israeli newspaper, Times of Israel (English, no paywall, and somewhat more palatable than Jerusalem Post.

    “hours after Tzachi Hanegbi, a member of the prime minister’s ruling Likud Party and a member of the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, told Israel Radio that unless a substantive nuclear agreement with the Islamic Republic is reached soon, Israel will take the necessary steps to defend itself and remove the threat.”

    Netanyahu issued order to all officials of the government not to comment. It was also stated that while Obama informed Netanyahu about his plans to talk with Rouhani, there was no “coordination of positions”. Did Obama instruct Neyanyahu to shut up? Or merely made a little lecture, like you instruct young adolescents that sex may lead to making babies which they may wish to avoid.

    I do not think that Obama “sensed the possibility that Russia etc.”, instead I think that Russian promised that a while ago in very stern terms, and so did the Chinese. Top ranking officers of USA were obliquely warning that “an attack on Iran would break the international consensus on sanctions”. Iran is behind Eurasian “red line”. Concerning sanctions themselves, Eurasian powers are not overfond of them, while perhaps viewing Iran as a loose cannon. Even Japan and South Korea buy oil from Iran. I think that there was some coordinated warning that if USA will not negotiate seriously when the opportunity will present itself the sanctions may be removed, or at least drastically relaxed.

  20. American
    American
    September 29, 2013, 10:50 am

    I’m sure this really pissed Israel off.

    http://news.yahoo.com/rouhani-home-us-gift-silver-griffin-reports-175921221.html

    Rouhani home with US ‘gift’ of silver griffin: reports

    Tehran (AFP) – Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on Saturday brought home a 2,700-year-old Persian artifact the US administration gave him as “a special gift” to Iranians, media reports said.
    “The Americans contacted us on Thursday and said ‘we have a gift for you’,” Rouhani told reporters upon arrival at the airport in Tehran, the ILNA news agency reported.
    “They gave it back as a special gift to the Iranian nation.”
    Rouhani was speaking of a 7th century BC silver Persian drinking cup in the shape of a winged Griffin, a legendary creature with the head of an eagle and body of a lion”

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      September 29, 2013, 4:57 pm

      Wow. That’s huge! A major and meaningful expression. Especially to the Iranian people. Right out of the blue (hmm, or was it??…).

      • MRW
        MRW
        September 29, 2013, 11:13 pm

        You’re right, ritzl. Huge.

    • just
      just
      September 30, 2013, 3:35 am

      A big step forward indeed.

      It’s really in our best interests to engage in good relations with Iran and her people.

      win- win.

      • just
        just
        September 30, 2013, 3:50 am

        “If the drinking cup was worth $950,000 a decade ago, it’s worth at least a million dollars today. But it’s probably worth even more as a diplomatic gesture: Iranian authorities have been seeking the rhyton’s return for more than two decades.

        “The return of the artifact reflects the strong respect the United States has for cultural heritage property — in this case, cultural heritage property that was likely looted from Iran and is important to the patrimony of the Iranian people,” the State Department said. “It also reflects the strong respect the United States has for the Iranian people.””

        picture at the link.

        http://www.nbcnews.com/science/archaeo-diplomacy-us-gives-million-dollar-cup-back-iran-8C11281668

        I hope that this is a harbinger of true and lasting respect and concern for the actual people of Iran, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan…….

      • annie
        annie
        October 1, 2013, 1:19 am

        wow, that’s gorgeous just, thanks for the link/photo.

  21. Shingo
    Shingo
    September 30, 2013, 3:44 am

    This is turning out to be an incredible reversal.

    While Bibbi’s Road Runner presentation signaled the end of his career as a statesmen with anything rational to say at the UN, it looks as though his speech on Tuesday is already expected to be received with a cold shoulder.

    Netanyahu’s tough talk on Iran may find a less receptive audience
    http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/09/29/3659039/netanyahus-tough-talk-on-iran.html

    2 years ago it was Ahmadinejad that was billed as the travelling freak show at the UN. It’s not Israel that is expected to be mocked and Iran that has returned to respectable UN member state.

    It would take the cake if diplomats started walking out during his speech.

  22. German Lefty
    German Lefty
    September 30, 2013, 10:38 am

    On German TV, the correspondent in Tel Aviv said about Iran that “Israel lost its favourite enemy” and that “Israel is politically lonely”. Some honest reporting for once.

  23. talknic
    talknic
    October 1, 2013, 9:16 am

    Follow the money.

    Israel’s biggest fear is becoming a failed and disgraced state with its facade ripped away. What a disappointment. So many deceived for such a long time.

    After 65 years building illegal facts on the ground in territory “outside the State of Israel” http://pages.citebite.com/x1r0b4d1y6mkv the Jewish state can no longer afford to adhere to the law which, if it were to be forced to comply would send it into bankruptcy for decades as it attempted to pay reparations for 65 years of ignoring the law.

    The whole Jewish homeland industry of illegal settlements, the selling of non-Israeli land to Israeli citizens and another investors, the contracts for infrastructure, roads, homes, schools, shopping centres and ‘defense’ gone and the wealth generated by the resources in non-Israeli territory. Israel’s economy slashed to pieces

    Furthermore the law would demand all Israeli citizens in non-Israeli territories LEAVE and as Israel has never legally annexed ANY territories since the day it was recognized (as it asked to be recognized ), this amounts to hundreds of thousands, if not a million or more Israeli citizens who’d either have to be relocated in Israeli territory or become Palestinian citizens, if Palestine wanted them.

    Israel can quite simply NOT afford to adhere to the law now.

    Should a civil war erupt between the Jewish State attempting to relocate Israeli citizens back to Israel’s actual territory, it would be fought predominantly in in territory “outside the State of Israel” (ibid) wherein the Regional Powers would have a right and a duty to intervene.

    For six decades the UN has patiently attempted to get the Jewish state to comply with the law. Israel has simply ignored its obligations and purposefully continued its ghastly illegal policies knowing no-body in the region particularly wants another full scale war in the region. All of Israel’s wars thus far, it has had to start. (the preemptor starts its wars)

    Already Israel has egg on its face by its illegal facts on the ground. The only legal way out of Israel’s perilous financial and moral morass is to negotiate a settlement with the Palestinians in order to circumvent the law, a plea bargain. Too embarrassing to admit, I dare say Netanyahu’s speech at the UN will be the usual …. pure Hasbara

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