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‘WSJ’ piece argues that Israeli Christians and Jews are aligned, but not Muslims

Israel/Palestine
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Church of the Holy Sepulchre, in occupied East Jerusalem

Church of the Holy Sepulchre, in occupied East Jerusalem

Expect to see more of this trend, which has an Islamophobic scent to it that we covered yesterday. In the Wall Street Journal, “Israel’s Christian Awakening,” by Adi Schwartz, argues that Israel is more hospitable to Christian Palestinians than neighboring countries are to their Christians. The piece contains a statement from Hanin Zoabi, the Palestinian member of Knesset, saying that Palestinians are a national group not a religious one, and that some Christians’ efforts to join the Israeli army are dangerous and collaborationist. Schwartz used to work for Haaretz. Excerpts:

But now, an informal grass-roots movement, prompted in part by the persecution of Christians elsewhere in the region since the Arab Spring, wants to cooperate more closely with Israeli Jewish society—which could mean a historic change in attitude toward the Jewish state. “Israel is my country, and I want to defend it,” says Henry Zaher, an 18-year-old Christian from the village of Reineh who was visiting Nazareth. “The Jewish state is good for us.”…

In some ways, Christians in Israel more closely resemble their Jewish neighbors than their Muslim ones, says Amnon Ramon, a lecturer at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and a specialist on Christians in Israel at the Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies…

According to Shadi Khaloul, a forum spokesperson, the total number of Christians serving in the Israeli military has more than quadrupled since 2012, from 35 to nearly 150. This may seem a drop in the ocean, but it was enough to enrage many Palestinian Israelis…

“The current Arab political establishment only brought us hate and rifts,” says Mr. [Bishara] Shlayan. “The Arab-Muslim parties didn’t take care of us. We are not brothers with the Muslims; brothers take care of each other.”

Thanks to Taxi.

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About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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133 Responses

  1. dimadok
    dimadok
    December 28, 2013, 9:59 am

    Nothing Islamophobic- honest reporting, uncomfortable truth and a some knee-jerking from Mr. Weiss.

    • annie
      annie
      December 28, 2013, 4:05 pm

      how can you tell it is honest? the abc report just linked to down thread has this to say:

      But also among those serving are 208 Arab Muslims and 137 Arab Christians, said army Maj. Shadi Rahal. The numbers of Christians volunteering for the army has remained relatively steady, ticking up only slightly from about 40 year in the past to around 50-55 annually now, Rahal said.

      this is not a significant amount, hardly a change, and yet it’s being promoted in the US media. why? my theory is that americans are hearing more and more about palestinians and many do not even realize they have a christian community (in fact, i had this very conversation on an airplane earlier this month with a US army medic i sat next to. he didn’t realize there were palestinian christians.)

      but israel is deathly afraid of offending the outside christian community (obviously they don’t share this fear of offense for local christians http://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/christians-draconian-treatment.html , and please open the first embed in phil’s article above, follow all the links)

      this is nothing more than a christmas season media offensive. the views of palestinian christians in the israeli military does not represent the palestinian christian community there. it’s represents a fringe in the community.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        December 28, 2013, 4:29 pm

        It’s exactly a media offensive, designed to hide the cruelties the zios inflict on the Christian community in Palestine, so as to prevent American Christians from being roused from their slumber on this issue. I’ve always thought that an outreach by Palestinian Christians in American churches, calling for the Americans to take up the cross in defense of their co-religionists, was a missed opportunity.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 10:09 am

        @ Woody Tanaka
        Considering the bulk of America is Christian, I’ve always wondered why so many remain ignorant Palestinian Christians exist in Israel and OT, let alone being aware of how they are treated there by Israel. This is so, especially regarding Christian fundys.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        December 29, 2013, 12:32 pm

        I think it comes down to the general ignorance of the facts of the world among Americans; media monopoly by the zios who’ve manipulated the news and media for the benefits of the occupiers; and a change in Christian culture towards more inclusion of the Old Testament so as to see Christians and Jews as aligned. I think it would be very beneficial to change all these things, especially the third, so that American Christians can see that their primary religious obligation is to their fellow Christians and the oppressed, even it means that Jewish-Christian antagonism would increase.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        December 29, 2013, 1:25 pm

        @Citizen – – British newspapers print stories and reports from the occupied West Bank, focusing on the Christian leaders there who say the Israeli occcupation has been a catastrophe for their communities. American newspapers are reluctant to carry such reports.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        December 28, 2013, 5:11 pm

        @annie;

        the views of Palestinian Christians in the Israeli military does not represent the Palestinian Christian community there. it’s represents a fringe in the community.

        How do you know?

      • annie
        annie
        December 28, 2013, 5:17 pm

        because according to the article the military numbers have consistently been about 40 a year now up to 50-55. that’s fringe. and did you open the links? the christians in the 60 minutes video almost laughed at the suggestion they were persecuted by the muslim community. did you see the hordes of christians being held back by israeli troops on holy saturday? those are palestinian christians, they are not divided by which ones share israeli citizenship. they know who the oppressor is.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        December 28, 2013, 5:30 pm

        @Annie:

        Yes, of course, I saw the “60 minutes”. In the last two years, there are many new voices among the Palestinian Christians in Israel (not in the OT). Many of them are dealing with the relation of the Christian community with the state of Israel. My feeling, mostly from the daily news, is that the voices support the state of Israel and call to join the IDF or join the national service are increasing. But if you say it is a fringe and not represents the community, I take your word.

      • annie
        annie
        December 28, 2013, 6:07 pm

        you don’t have to take my word, just try finding sources other than ” My feeling, mostly from the daily news”.

        In the last two years, there are many new voices among the Palestinian Christians

        here’s the thing mahane, i actually researched this story LAST SPRING http://mondoweiss.net/2013/05/holdchristians-manhandling-apologizes.html

        And here’s a 6 minute video “clearly depicts a highly-publicized assault, during which Father Arsanios, the 85-year-old head of the Coptic Church in Ramallah, can be seen being battered” by the Jerusalem Police.

        In email correspondence, Yusef Daher, executive secretary of the Jerusalem Inter-Church Centre, and author of Access to worship in Jerusalem! (pdf) told me “There has been no official Israeli explanation” of the attacks. He also stated:

        A feeling of exclusive access to Jews and all kinds of restrictions against the others is mounting every year. This is leading the city to be a ticking bomb when these policies are coupled with other policies that are discriminatory in nature and against all human rights in general.

        so your ‘last two years’ narrative, is a joke. i also corresponded with several christians who were willing to tell me a lot, off the record. they don’t want to be persecuted. they don’t want israeli security thugs coming to their houses. it wasn’t that difficult finding palestinian christiansto talk about it. they also said that permits to go to jerusalem to worship were not given out to the whole families, so families had to split up for mass on the holidays. last easter was just the worst they said. you could read about it allover facebook.

        https://www.facebook.com/PalestinianChristians/posts/601486056547050

        You keep telling us that we are the descendants of the Apostles, and of the first Christian community, the first who believed in Jesus Christ, the first who proclaimed His Gospel to the world.
        You tell us: that we have suffered so many persecutions, under various governments and military occupations along centuries. We are proud of you because you are still here perseverant in the land where Jesus Christ was born, taught, suffered, died and resurrected.
        You tell us, come and pray as Jesus prayed.
        You tell us all that, and on the day of Easter, in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the holiest of our Churches, we were forbidden to pray. And you know that. On the day of our Easter, we have lived a religious and human tragedy.
        The celebrations of Easter, according to the Gregorian calendar, this year, was the worst that happened. Christians from Gaza were forbidden to reach Jerusalem. All Christians from all occupied Palestine were forced to ask for military permits in order to celebrate the feast in Jerusalem, and only 6 thousand permits were given. Then, all occupied Palestine was closed, and those who had permits could not use them.
        Military barriers were put in the Old city of Jerusalem, Christian Palestinians, from the Christian Quarter could not reach the Holy Sepulchre Church.
        All the ways going to the Holy Sepulchre were closed.
        All entrances to the Holy Sepulchre were closed
        The place before the Basilica was closed
        Inside the Church were also military barriers, even around the “Stone of Anointment” and the “Sepulchre”.
        Christians were forbidden to reach freely to the Church. The soldiers agressed them.

        Whose intention is it to forbid us to pray in the Holy Sepulchre?

        The Church was full with Israeli soldiers with their weapons, guns, hats, eating sandwiches, joking, speaking with their mobile phones, hearing songs, laughing loudly, crying on the faithful…
        This church is the place of our prayer and not a military caserne. The word of Jesus apply on our situation: “My house is a place of prayer and you converted it to a military camp” (Cf Lc 19,45 sq).
        We ask all our Heads, the three Patriarachs, the Franciscan Custos, and all the Churches to ask the police and the army not to close the entrances of the Church neither to be in the Church with their guns and impolite manners. Please take the necessary measures. Say a word of truth to the Israeli Authorities. Let Christians reach freely their Church on the day of their feast.
        Order cannot be used as pretext for all this tragedy and violation of the sacredness of our Holy Places and our Feasts.
        We prayed hundreds of years in the Holy Sepulchre without all this heavy military and insolent presence. Tens of thousands celebrate Christmas in Bethlehem without such military presence. In Ramallah more Christians than in Jerusalem celebrate the Holy Fire and have no need to all this military “order”.

        so tell me mehane, when they say We prayed hundreds of years in the Holy Sepulchre without all this heavy military, certainly they were not referencing israeli rule. if the christians of the holy land are saying this is the worst it’s been, it doesn’t mean things are going swimmingly, it means the opposite. that will not be fixed by 15 extra christians joining the iof last year. got that? it won’t be fixed by interviewing a few christians who’ve joined the occupation forces. there are tens of thousands of christians there. and they are not happy with the zionist takeover of their holy sites.

        you can get swept up in the latest hasbara offensive, but only islamophobic idiots will buy this story.

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        December 28, 2013, 5:12 pm

        You got it.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        December 28, 2013, 6:31 pm

        @Annie:

        Please, read my comments carefully. Twice I wrote “In Israel (not in the OT)”. Again, the Christian Palestinians join the IDF are Israeli citizens and I talked about them specifically since this is the issue Philip Weiss and WSJ speak about: Israeli Christians. So my “last two years” narrative is not a joke at all. Let’s wait and see what will be in the future. If the Christian Palestinians (in Israel!!!) won’t join the army in the future, I will be the first to say “Annie, you correct, my narrative was a joke”.

      • annie
        annie
        December 28, 2013, 11:07 pm

        earth to mehane, on what planet do you live on that you think christian palestinians worshiping at the tomb of jesus on holy fire saturday are not coming from all over, including israel? it doesn’t matter whether they had israeli citizenship, east jerusalem or WB residency. they were attacked as palestinian christians.

        What happened at Jerusalem’s Church of the Holy Sepulcher on May 4th, “Holy Saturday”, the eve of Easter Sunday? Outraged Christians are decrying Israeli police measures that prevented Palestinians from worshiping on that day:

        We, the Heads of Churches in Jerusalem, watched with sorrowful hearts the horrific scenes of the brutal treatment of our clergy, people, and pilgrims in the Old City of Jerusalem during Holy Saturday last week. A day of joy and celebration was turned to great sorrow and pain for some of our faithful because they were ill-treated by some Israeli policemen who were present around the gates of the Old City and passages that lead to the Holy Sepulcher.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2013/05/holdchristians-manhandling-apologizes.html
        and here’s more:

        Under the deceptive headline Jerusalem’s dwindling Christians celebrate Orthodox Easter, The Denver Post published a story by Welsh crime novelist/journalist Mike Rees implying thousands of Palestinian Christians were not in attendance because their numbers are dwindling; “caught in other peoples’ conflicts. They are victims of the dispute between Israel and the Palestinian Muslim majority.” Rees speaks of worshipers with “Slavic” faces in the church. No mention of throngs of Palestinian worshipers, prevented from entering the church by “thousands” of Israeli police.

        slavic faces, get it. they want jerusalem to be the a christian disney theme park for white christains, not arab christians. palestinian christian were not welome, regardless of i.d card.

        the FB page i linked to didn’t say ‘palestinian christians except those who have israeli citizenship.’ go back and read it.

        see these women, http://mondoweiss.net/2013/05/friends-minutes-jerusalem.html ? both palestinian christians. which one lives in gaza and which from Umm al-Fahem, haifa district? you can put walls between them but you cannot divide them.

        the WSJ article said there were ” about 130,000 are Arabic-speaking Christians” in israel, and 55 of them joined the military this year, that’s fringe.

        get back to us when it’s 5000 (which will be never unless the gov makes legislation that requires it), now that’s a trend.

    • December 28, 2013, 5:49 pm

      I think we all remember the reaction when 60 Minutes ran a piece of Christians in the Holy Land and those Christians stated they were leaving because of the actions of Israel, not because of anything the Muslims had done. Fool Christians should know to shut up and let Israel speak for them

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        December 28, 2013, 6:31 pm

        And Christian leaders in the West Bank say the Israeli occupation has been disastrous for their communities.

  2. just
    just
    December 28, 2013, 10:04 am

    I noticed this as well.

    “This is beyond belief and the “pale”:

    “Dozens of Israeli soldiers respectfully rose from their seats as the Israeli national anthem began playing. The tinny recording of “Hatikva,” an ode to the Jewish yearning for the Land of Israel, wrapped up a ceremony, held in Hebrew, during which speakers thanked the troops and handed out awards.

    It looked like a typical motivational gathering for soldiers of the Jewish state — except that nearly all those in uniform weren’t Jews and Hebrew wasn’t their first language. They were Christian Arabs, a minority that has historically viewed itself as part of the Palestinian people and considered service in the army as taboo.

    The gathering — a pre-Christmas nod to Christian soldiers, who nibbled on cookies and chocolate Santas — was part of a new push by Israel’s government and a Greek Orthodox priest to persuade more Christians to enlist.

    The campaign has set off an emotional debate about identity among Christians, a tiny minority within Israel’s predominantly Muslim Arab minority. So far the numbers of Christian Arabs enlisting is negligible, but with the community’s fate possibly at stake, tempers have flared and each side has accused the other of using scare tactics and incitement.

    Father Gabriel Nadaf, the priest promoting enlistment, said Christians must serve in the army if they want to integrate into Israeli society and win access to jobs. “I believe in the shared fate of the Christian minority and the Jewish state,” he told the conference, held at a local hotel.

    His spokesman warned that unlike Israel, the rest of the Middle East is a dangerous place for Christians. “They are burning churches, they are slaughtering them (Christians), they are raping the girls,” said the aide, Shadi Khalloul, referring to the targeting of Christian communities in Syria, Iraq and elsewhere by Islamic militants.

    Arab Christians opposed to army service — the large majority in the community, according to its spokesmen — say the real goal is to divide and weaken Israel’s 1.7 million Arabs, made up of Muslims, Christians and Druze, who follow a secretive offshoot of Islam.”

    link to abcnews.go.com

    You can read the whole thing there.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/12/palestinians-somebody-grass.html#comment-624269

  3. Krauss
    Krauss
    December 28, 2013, 10:12 am

    This is the newest hasbara trend:

    http://www.idfblog.com/2013/12/25/christians-serving-idf-growing-community/

    By the way, I wonder when WSJ or other outlets will write about how Christians in Israel can’t even get the national partliament to acknowledge their existance without racism on their holiest day, namely Christmas day.

    The Knesset speaker said those who advocate showing tolerance to the Christian minority and giving them a single day of recognition are aiding a “demographic threat”.

    They tried using the environment.
    They tried using gays.
    They tried using sex.
    Now they are trying to pimp Christians.

  4. ramzijaber
    ramzijaber
    December 28, 2013, 10:14 am

    a key tenant of zionist strategy has always been to sow sectarian divisions among its enemies. this is still their strategy. not a surprise really, the whole age old divide-and-conquer thing.

    since i was a kid, the zionist regime has deliberately and very openly treated christian palestinians much more humanely and permissively than moslem palestinians. they would issue passes or accept requests from christian palestinians much more quickly and easily than moslem palestinians. they would be extremely lenient on a christian palestinian kid if he “diverted” than a moslem palestinian. they would never invade a christian palestinian home in the middle of the night as they would a moslem palestinian home. they rarely destroyed the house of a palestinian christian.

    and when they did these things, they openly and broadly announced it or made it known. the good ‘ol divide-and-conquer. the zionists did the same in lebanon, did the same between fatah and hamas, etc. etc.

    so this is not about israeli jews and christians being more aligned than moslems. this is about politics and the zionist ideology. this is about keeping land that is not theirs. this is about colonization cloaked in religion to suit an illegal zionist agenda.

    • just
      just
      December 28, 2013, 10:21 am

      Well said Ramzi.

      “onward Christian soldiers”. It’s another Crusades in the name and sake of Israel.

      Benighted.

    • Ron Edwards
      Ron Edwards
      December 28, 2013, 11:29 am

      Agreed. It’s also a re-play of the Sharon-Begin strategy from the late 1970s, in which multiple strikes against Lebanese, Palestinian, and Syrian targets were persistently sold to the U.S. government and public as “defending Christians.” Playing up the Maronite Catholics, specifically the Gemayel (Ghimayal) family, as “the Christians” without mentioning the religious orientation of, for example, Georges Habash (PFLP), or the political position of the Lebanese PPS, was the game (and shhhh about Beirut’s Jewish community too). This began during the time when the Israeli administration considered that President Carter’s personal evangelical Christian practice was their window of vulnerability, a tactic which paid off most later with Reagan’s first cabinet.

      The modern version plays equally fast and loose, and in similar ways. First, that the militants in question are foreign-paid and trained. AQ in Iraq, now ISIS, is the legacy of the so-called Sunni Awakening; the reliance of the perps in Syria on Saudi support is the worst-kept secret in the area aside from Israel’s nukes; I could go on and on with examples, such as the Future Movement in Lebanon. Second, that such people are targeting anyone and everyone who fails to accord with their ideology, including other Muslims, and when they run out of those, then they turn on fellow Sunni Muslims and start in on how one shaves or whether one is wearing the right brand of bra. Third, there is no mention whatsoever of religious life in Syria within the context of the Assad administration – this strategy relies on Americans thinking “Syria = Muslim = killin’ Christians!” without reference to who is being criticized – i.e., those the U.S. government and crony governments are supporting.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 1:20 am

        “… I could go on and on with examples, such as the Future Movement in Lebanon. Second, that such people are targeting anyone and everyone who fails to accord with their ideology, including other Muslims, and when they run out of those, then they turn on fellow Sunni Muslims and start in on how one shaves or whether one is wearing the right brand of bra. ”

        Ron, keep watching developments on the story of the assassination of senior Future Movement Sunni member, Shatah a couple of days back. Turned out he was a good-guy moderate trying to mediate a reconciliation between all parties. Kerry said that Shatah’s death was also a loss for the US.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 29, 2013, 1:39 am

        Walid,

        My question yesterday regarding the assassination of Shatah was: who wants America’s man out of the Downtown Beirut picture?

        Someone(s) sure don’t want a reconciled Lebanon.

        Mindful here too, when you say that Shatah was “good-guy”, yes all credit to him who was seriously attempting a reconciliation, but let us also not forget that his hands up to the elbows were deep in the thick of most of the Hariri financial scandals.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 3:28 am

        Car used to make the car-bomb had been stolen by Fatah al-Islam members last year. That’s the Wahabist group that was involved in the Nahr al Bared war in which about 200 soldiers were killed and that for some reason are not or no longer on the US list of terrorist organizations. America’s man, as you called him, was taken out by people that are not happy with what’s going on between the US and Iran.

        Shatah had worked most of his life in the US for the IMF and a couple of years as Lebanon’s ambassador up to 3 years after Hariri was killed, so he didn’t have much to do with those scandals you mentioned. A funny story about him when was Finance Minister that you’d find interesting if you’re anywhere near Lake Qaraoun was his Ottoman treasure hunt in 2009 in which he found nothing.

        http://al-shorfa.com/en_GB/articles/meii/features/2009/09/10/feature-03

      • Ron Edwards
        Ron Edwards
        December 29, 2013, 10:47 am

        Noted, and thanks.

    • dimadok
      dimadok
      December 28, 2013, 11:29 am

      Maybe it comes with the fact ,that there is a prevalent majority of Muslim Arab terrorists in all year of conflict? Maybe also can be attributed to fears and persecution Christians were and are facing from every single Muslim country? Or maybe to a lowest number of Christians in history around the Middle East?

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        December 28, 2013, 4:38 pm

        Or maybe to a lowest number of Christians in history around the Middle East?

        I’m sure that the speed with which all these Jewish price tag attacks on churches are (not) being investigated and solved has contributed to that decline.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        December 28, 2013, 5:08 pm

        @Hostage:

        I’m sure that the speed with which all these Jewish price tag attacks on churches are (not) being investigated and solved.

        Yesterday evening, a comprehensive report about the Jewish attacks on churches was broadcast by the Israeli TV Ch. 2 Magazine. The attacks are done by a bunch of racists thugs. it was reported that the Israeli police starts to take measures against those thugs that are acting to destroy the relationships with the Christians and against the Jewish values.

        In general, despite those attacks which are condemned by politicians and Rabbis, the relationships with the Christians in Israel are good, most of them want to integrate in the Israeli society and join the IDF to defend the state of Israel, their state. They are volunteering, no one force them to join the IDF. I think we should listen to them and learn why they join the IDF, instead of writing many speculations about their act.

      • annie
        annie
        December 28, 2013, 5:23 pm

        it was reported that the Israeli police starts to take measures against those thugs

        what does this mean? either they’ve arrested them or they have not. they know who they are. when do you ever hear this about palestinians when it’s not accompanied by them being arrested and thrown in jail. show me some court convictions, not empty promises.

        most of them want to integrate in the Israeli society and join the IDF

        then why only 50 a year join the military? maybe you’re confusing this with the russian christian society.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 3:51 am

        “Israeli police starts to take measures against those thugs that are acting to destroy the relationships with the Christians and against the Jewish values.”

        Would you list a few of those “Jewish values” that the thugs are destroying more that the rest of what most of Israel’s society is destroying? I’m having problems spotting any of the known Jewish values in Israel except in a very few Israelis. Looking forward to seeing your list.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 10:47 am

        “…. the relationships with the Christians in Israel are good, most of them want to integrate in the Israeli society and join the IDF to defend the state of Israel, their state. They are volunteering, no one force them to join the IDF”

        So, 55 out of 130,000 is “most of them”?

        Your logic is slightly weak.
        Didn’t you watch the 60 Minutes documentary on Arab Christians in Israel or in the OT? You said you did. Again, where’s your logic?

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        December 28, 2013, 5:10 pm

        Hostage,

        Statistically Christians are increasing in Muslim countries due to natural birth increases. Not only that, but due to the Nakba, they have increased at a higher rate than in the Holy Land over the last 80 years.

        I was challenged to investigate this once by an Israeli nationalist who claimed the opposite (in line with the WSJ’s “Christian-washing”) and was surprised by the results.

      • dimadok
        dimadok
        December 28, 2013, 5:54 pm

        @Hostage. Sure these price tag vandals, had scared some people- but it’s a far cry from Hamas, MB or anything else actively spreading worldwide Jihad.
        You are intellectually dishonest here, and stretching the facts as hard as you can.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 3:57 am

        “… these price tag vandals…”

        Dimadok, these cowardly vandals aren’t doing anything much different than what you and the other hasbarists are trying to do on this blog.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 10:58 am

        Israel does nothing about it’s “price tag vandals” except, at most, a charade for PR purposes. De facto, those vandals are fully supported, even encouraged often, and funded always, by Israel’s nuclear-armed and US supported government.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        December 30, 2013, 5:53 am

        @dimadok –
        How many Palestinian Christians do you know?
        I am in touch with several Palestinian Christian leaders and they describe their reality and the place they occupy in Israel very differently to you. And for standing tall, Israel routinely humiliates them.

    • bilal a
      bilal a
      December 28, 2013, 11:40 am

      How many can see the divide and conquer colonial paradigm at play in this WSJ article, as also a prominent feature of western cultural collapse through mass immigration and gender-ethnic identity politics?

      Anetta Kahane explains why Germany must become a globalized multicultural society and leave its religious-ethnic roots:
      http://rt.com/news/nationalism-germany-immigration-politics-055/

  5. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    December 28, 2013, 10:44 am

    It’s possible that things have changed in recent years with the rise of Islamism, but traditionally, Christians have been disproportionately represented within the Palestinian movement, from militants such as George Habash to intellectuals like Edward Said, to politicians such as Hanan Ashrawi.

    I doubt Israel will have much success with this latest attempt at divide and try to conquer.

  6. bintbiba
    bintbiba
    December 28, 2013, 11:36 am

    Thank you Rami.

  7. W.Jones
    W.Jones
    December 28, 2013, 12:16 pm

    It is not a “grass-roots” movement of conscripting Christians. There is alot of government involvement. Even some of the christians leading it have been involved in the government.

    Meanwhile, the Christian community does not agree with it, and the Patriarch made a statement discouraging it. The priest leading the tiny pro-army movement was not allowed to serve in one of the leading churches as a result, IIRC.

  8. Justpassingby
    Justpassingby
    December 28, 2013, 1:53 pm

    Since the 1940-1950s thousands of christian palestinians were ethnically cleansed by Israel.

    Adi Schwartz = israel firster and islamophob?

  9. James Canning
    James Canning
    December 28, 2013, 2:18 pm

    I think Christains and Muslims should participate in Israeli society. I would expect Jews to participate in Palestinian society, once Israeli troops etc are out of Palestine.

    • annie
      annie
      December 28, 2013, 4:12 pm

      I would expect Jews to participate in Palestinian society, once Israeli troops etc are out of Palestine.

      would you expect them to join palestinian military forces to man border checkpoints between israel and a palestine state? sit in watchtowers and shoot at israeli jews trying to enter palestine illegally?

      all citizens should participate in their society but enforcing an occupation against your own people, don’t you think that’s extreme?

      and do you think israeli christian forces would participate in preventing palestinian christians from worshipping in their own churches? http://mondoweiss.net/2013/05/holdchristians-manhandling-apologizes.html

      only a traitor would do that.

    • W.Jones
      W.Jones
      December 29, 2013, 12:11 am

      The Russian empire gave Jews special permission to avoid serving in the Russian army.

      If the State is considered to be for one nationality only, what policy should the subject minorities follow when it comes to fighting others on behalf of the State?

      • annie
        annie
        December 29, 2013, 1:28 am

        now sure palestinian israelis fighting palestinians qualifies as ‘fighting others’.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 3:44 am

        I will never understand, accept or agree with Israeli Palestinians of any religion joining an army that is mistreating Palestinians on a daily basis. These that do are despicable people and so is the priest encouraging them to enlist and more so the low-life Israeli child-killers that are encouraging them to enlist while oppressing their fellow Palestinians. There is no limit to Israel’s indecency.

      • yrn
        yrn
        December 29, 2013, 4:15 am

        Regda Jeraisi is a young Christian That will join the IDF Wednesday
        650 young Christians join in the IDF, We are Arabic-speaking Christians Israelis. Arabs living in Israel consider themselves Palestinians, they want to conquer the State of Israel, they are trying to include the Christians in the same category, but the reality is different. We are not weak, we stand up for ourselves and talk out loud, we’re proud to serve in the military. ”

        We’re not ashamed to serve our country, we are proud to serve it. This is our country,

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 4:54 am

        yrn, I don’t know where you got your wild numbers from but they don’t make any sense. What the WSJ did not write about was that the collaborator, Father Nadaf has been banned from from his Church of the Annunciation, because of his treasonous activity, so he is speaking for himself in much the same way the other Palestinian turncoat Walid Shoebat speaks only for himself. But it should make you happy that Nadaf has been praised by Netanyahu and Dany Danon for his efforts.

        If you guys love the Christians that much, have you lifted the ban on Christmas trees in Nazareth Illit? I watched the events on Christmas Day in Bethlehem on TV and all I saw of Israeli love were checkpoints and pointed guns, stopping Christian worshipers from making their way to join the celebrations in Bethlehem and one Palestinian that was shot trying to force his entrance into the city. Where did all that love go?

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        December 30, 2013, 8:33 am

        “Walid says:
        December 29, 2013 at 3:44 am

        I will never understand, accept or agree with Israeli Palestinians of any religion joining an army that is mistreating Palestinians on a daily basis”

        Israeli citizens of any religion (don’t know about “Israeli Palestinians”) don’t need your understanding, acceptance or agreement if they wish to voluntarily enlist and serve and defend the state where they hold citizenship. They are free citizens acting of their own volition and capable of deciding what is best for them and Israel’s Muslim. Christian and Druze citizens don’t need your permission to serve in the IDF.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        December 29, 2013, 10:50 am

        W Jones- At certain times the Russian empire exempted some Jews from serving in the army, but to be accurate one would specify who was exempted and when. Your statement which sounds like at all times all Jews were exempted from serving in the (Czarist) Russian army is patently false.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 11:26 am

        @ yonah fredman
        @ W.Jones
        Yep, it’s well known, at least in American Jewish communities, that Jews left old Czarist-controlled countries to escape conscription, my father-in-law, for example. They ran like crazy. I don’t know what period in Russian or soviet history W.Jones is talking about.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        December 30, 2013, 6:06 am

        @citizen et al
        my great great grandfather was one of those Russian Jews who evaded conscription by cutting off part of his thumb. We have a picture of him that shows it.

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        December 30, 2013, 10:11 am

        Yonah, Citizen, Elliot,

        Don’t all these issues- periodic exemptions (one was before 1827)), cutting off one’s own thumb to avoid service, etc.- indirectly prove the point about objecting to military service for the military of another nation?

  10. Citizen
    Citizen
    December 28, 2013, 2:46 pm

    Yeah, it’s obvious, this Zionist maneuver for hearts and minds to gain more traction Israel has been losing in the Western alternative press, which strains the status quo mainstream Western press. The most obvious parallel that springs to my mind is pink washing with regard to gays. Anything to divert the international focus on Israel’s slow cooker making Greater Israel mince meat out of the native Palestinian population meat.

    • yrn
      yrn
      December 29, 2013, 6:35 am

      Walid

      Read for yourself : 650 young Christians join in the IDF
      http://www.mako.co.il/pzm-recruits/Article-a76fcea7878bf31006.htm

      “If you guys love the Christians that much, ”

      What’s the connection regarding loving, they are Israeli citizens, that want to join the Israeli Army, like anybody else…………….

      Merry Christmas to IDF Christians soldiers in Nazareth
      http://www.sababa04.co.il/pages/posts/mri-krisms-lchyili-tzh-l-hnotzrim-bntzrt-ailit-6005.php?phpMyAdmin=Vk3Xk1%2CDg9wmTkE4dZ2wzOUEfi3

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 9:13 am

        Yrn, no Christian soldiers in Nazareth unless they are there undercover to spy, snitch and inform on their former Palestinian compatriots. You are probably thinking about the pseudo-Nazareth sin city that calls itself Nazareth Illit where Christmas trees are banned within the city limits. The girl that you call Rgda is probably meant to be “Ragida” and she happens to live in the sin city. For a second, I thought it was a photo of Livni, so maybe Ragida is half Jewish and the reason behind her distaste for Arabs.

        Of those 650 Christians that joined, 500 are in the civil service. The way Israelis treat Palestinians, they probably have those 500 Christian kids happy to be Israelis sweeping the streets and mowing grass in the parks.

  11. Stephen Shenfield
    Stephen Shenfield
    December 28, 2013, 5:02 pm

    It is good strategy in several ways for the Zionists to cultivate an image of Jews and Christians allied against Moslems. It is especially important in sustaining the sympathy of European and American Christians for Israel. At the same time, there are many Israeli Jews who hate Christians at least as much as Moslems or possibly even more (Christian proselytism is viewed as a serious threat; Moslem proselytism is not). Expressions of this hostility — beating up Christians, desecrating churches, etc. — have been more or less successfully hushed up so far (e.g., see http://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/christians-draconian-treatment.html) but future outrages may be harder to conceal. The propaganda line that we are discussing here may be designed to counter this threat to Israeli influence over foreign Christian opinion.

  12. lysias
    lysias
    December 28, 2013, 6:20 pm

    So why does Israel support the attempts to overthrow Assad, who protects Christians?

    And why did it support the American overthrow of Saddam, who also protected Christians?

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      December 29, 2013, 1:48 pm

      Some Israelis want to keep (or try to keep) all of the Golan, all of the watershed (Sea of Galilee), all of the fish, etc etc. No matter how many hundreds of billions of dollars this costs or may cost the American people.

  13. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    December 28, 2013, 7:25 pm

    Didn’t a Druze general in the IDF come out recently to say that his people had not benefited that much from military service? Then there is this: Haaretz Nov 29, 2013

    “Druze soldiers detained at entrance to Dimona nuclear facility during drill…”

    Yep, the Jewish soldiers sailed through the gate but the Druze got held up for special scrutiny.

    Stay classy, Israel.

  14. Shuki
    Shuki
    December 28, 2013, 7:45 pm

    Zoabi is a real piece of work. Accuses people her serve in the army of the country for which she holds elective office as “collaborators”

    By the way, have you seen the way christians are treated in muslims countries? No, you haven’t. That’s because they don’t have christians or a free press there. But Israel is the bad guy…

    • a blah chick
      a blah chick
      December 28, 2013, 8:35 pm

      Israel is so free that after Zoabi participated in the Mari Marvara affair she was stripped of some of her parliamentary privileges and nearly physically assaulted by her fellow “lawmakers” when she returned to the Knesset. Max Blumenthal has the blow by blow in “Goliath.” Even people who did not agree with her politics thought that Zoabi’s treatment was disgraceful. So, I can understand why she might not share your enthusiasm for “Israeli Democracy.”

      P.S. How about we let actual Arab Christians talk about their lives.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 9:31 am

        blah chick, you mentioned Haneen Zoabi. One of the most fun videos I’ve seen is of Haneen in the Knesset after the Mavi massacre, cool as can be, while the other MK’s are heckling her and the Speaker keeps screeming for silence and throwing out one MK after another when they wouldn’t let her talk:

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 11:48 am

        Imagine if the US had a parliament congress instead of a two party congress. This is an example of Israel’s democratic parliament in action. It’s what Dick and Jane pay for to the tune of the biggest chunk of US foreign aid. Disgusting.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      December 28, 2013, 10:38 pm

      Lol. Lies, ad hominim, and whattaboutery in one post. Someone’s gunning for supervisor over at hasbara central…

    • eljay
      eljay
      December 28, 2013, 11:29 pm

      >> By the way, have you seen the way christians are treated in muslims countries? No, you haven’t. That’s because they don’t have christians or a free press there. But Israel is the bad guy…

      Typical Zio-supremacist: Being as good as or just slightly better than the worst is good enough and something to be proud of. No need to be or to strive to be as good as the best.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 11:52 am

        Meanwhile, US politicians rave about Israel as the light onto the nations, and keep funding it more than any other country even though its not a developing country.

    • Walid
      Walid
      December 29, 2013, 1:36 am

      “By the way, have you seen the way christians are treated in muslims countries? ”

      Yes, Shuki, especially in Lebanon where they are down to about 20% of the population and still get half the parliamentary seats, half the ministerial posts, the highest post in the country, that of President, the post of commander-in-chief of the army, control most of the media, control the largest banks, etc. etc. etc.

      They’re treated real bad there.

  15. Taxi
    Taxi
    December 29, 2013, 12:33 am

    Israel loves jesus.

    How touching.

    The zioeffs are running out of tricks to go hiding behind the cross and the habit.

    • yrn
      yrn
      December 29, 2013, 6:59 am

      Taxi

      “The zioeffs are running out of tricks ”

      Well how would u describe the technique trick of transforming Jesus from a Jew to a Palestinian.

      • eljay
        eljay
        December 29, 2013, 8:05 am

        >> Well how would u describe the technique trick of transforming Jesus from a Jew to a Palestinian.

        It would seem more correct to say he was Galilean. Regardless, no transformation “from a Jew ” was or is required.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 29, 2013, 8:07 am

        yrn,

        According to the Encyclopedia Britannica (as well as hundreds of other sources), Jesus was born in jewish Palestine. This makes him a Palestinian jew. An Arab jew, no less.
        http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/303091/Jesus-Christ

        Fortunately for jesus, zionist revisionism can’t touch this fact. Hard as you and that other creepozoid natayahu try.

        I’m now wishing you the opposite of a Merry Christmas – because you’re such a blue meanie.

      • yrn
        yrn
        December 29, 2013, 8:59 am

        Taxi
        It says clear in your source

        “When Jesus was born, all of “Jewish Palestine”, as well as some of the neighbouring Gentile areas, was ruled by Rome’s.”

      • yrn
        yrn
        December 29, 2013, 9:01 am

        Taxi

        More from your source

        “Although born in Bethlehem, according to Matthew and Luke, Jesus was a Galilean”

        You can try, but you cannot change history, even Abbas can’t

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 29, 2013, 9:57 am

        yrn,

        Don’t be a ridiculous smartypants. Galilee is the name of a region, not a country. Palestine was the nation-name given to the holy land under Roman occupation at the time. The Britannica refers to it as “Jewish Palestine”. Most accurate.

        Buzz off with your revisionism. Accept that it’s not the white askhanazim converts to judaism who gave the world (for better or for worse) the three Abrahamic religions, but the brown-skinned Arab semites of the middle east.

        Moses: A desert Arab.
        Jesus: An olive grove Arab.
        Mohammad: A desert Arab.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        December 29, 2013, 8:29 pm

        Jesus was born in a place that everyone knew as Palestine (though some may have preferred other names) and whose Jewish inhabitants could be called (Ovid Ars Amatoria 1, 416;) ‘Palestinian Syrians’. Statius unselfconsciously refers many decades later to ‘Hebrew and Palestinian essences/balms’ (Silvae, 5. 1, 213).
        But it is true that the terms ‘Palestinians/Philistines’ were not favoured by Jewish intellectuals, who had all but expelled them from the Greek version of the scriptures, the version that was at the time in widest international use. The reference to the Philistines among the nations listed at the beginning of Chronicles, for instance, got edited out. Through most of the Greek scriptures ‘Philistines’ is replaced by ‘allophyloi/assorted foreigners’. So unless Jesus operated well outside the language conventions of his time it is very unlikely that he ever would have called himself a Palestinian. How we should adopt or adapt the language conventions of that time is another matter.

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        December 30, 2013, 12:30 pm

        @ Taxi–re your mocking the transliteration of my name as “mikhkhkhkhail”. One “kh” is enough to represent the Hebrew letter כ”khaf ” in מיכאל , the Hebrew name from which the English “Michael” is derived.

        In Arabic, the name is ميخائيل, which is also commonly transliterated with a “kh”, e.g., “Mikha’eel”. Arabic uses the letter “خ ” which has the same sound as “כ”, and names and words with “خ “are often transliterated as “kh”, e.g., Khalaf/خلف, or .ميخائيلI would hope that you wouldn’t try to insult someone named Khalaf by writing Khkhkhkhkhalaf .

        You’re quite welcome for the free lesson in Hebrew, Arabic and cultural sensitivity.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 30, 2013, 12:46 pm

        Mikhy,

        I have zero interest in hebrew so you can spare me the boring lecture. And colonialist thugs should not self-appoint themselves as teachers in “cultural sensitivity”.

        LOL! What a pompous jerk.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        December 29, 2013, 10:57 am

        taxi- To call Jesus a Palestinian Jew, because one identifies the land where he was born as Palestine, due to its name today or at other times in history has an anachronistic sense to it. Jesus would not have called himself Palestinian, but it’s like calling Geronimo an American, even though Geronimo would not have called himself an American.

        But to say that Jesus was an Arab is just plain nonsense. The inhabitants of the Galilee were not called Arabs and indeed they were not Arabs. Only after the Arab invasion during the 7th century after Muhammad had died and his followers conquered half the western world was the territory incorporated into the Arab “nation” and the language began to adapt to its conquerors who spoke Arabic. In the time of Jesus those who did not live or come from the Arabian peninsula were not Arabs.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 29, 2013, 11:24 am

        yonah,

        Jesus’s birth religion was judaism, his nationality was Palestinian, hence he was a jew born in Bethlehem in ancient Palestine. Mindful here that jewish tribes originally hailed from the Arabian desert peninsular and not from Canaanite Palestine, this therefore makes Jesus’s ancestors Arabs.

        Here’s a map from pre islamic Arabia – note the areas with jewish presence:
        http://explorethemed.com/mohammed.asp

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 12:01 pm

        @ yonah fredman
        Jesus preached by word and deed to his fellow jews, against the Jewish Establishment back then. He felt and thought they had lost their true Jewish way. Those Jews who disagreed with him used the PTB, Pilate, the tax collector for Rome, to snuff his life out. Saul (St Paul), left his occupation as a drone of the Jewish Establishment of the time, to fight against it, gathering in Gentiles to have faith in what Jesus thought was the true Jewish way.

      • Cliff
        Cliff
        December 29, 2013, 1:22 pm

        @Wondering Jew

        What were those people then? European Jewish? Did Jesus look like Alan Dershowitz or Adam Sandler?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        December 31, 2013, 3:35 pm

        taxi, If you had asked Jesus, “Are you a Palestinian?” what would have been his answer? I’m guessing he would have called you a fool. If you had asked the average Roman soldier who was occupying Judea, where are you located, would they have answered Palestine? I assume not, but maybe I am wrong. If you had asked the average Judean, Samaritan or Galilleean, where do you live, would they have answered Palestine? I can almost guarantee that they would not.

        The original Jews hailed from what is today Iraq, the other side of the Euphrates, is that the same as the Arabian peninsula? Or are you asserting their origin was someplace different than where the Bible attributes their origin?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        December 31, 2013, 3:40 pm

        Cliff- the people who lived in Iraq, Syria and Palestine were not Arabs, nor were they Europeans. Their racial features I am guessing were the same as the racial features of Middle Eastern people today.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        December 31, 2013, 3:43 pm

        Cliff- Adam Sandler looks plenty middle eastern to me. Woody Allen looks like a light skinned European Jew. (European Jews were not all light skinned, but there were many who were.)

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        December 31, 2013, 4:18 pm

        “If you had asked Jesus, ‘Are you a Palestinian?’ what would have been his answer? ”

        Well, he would have understood the context in which “Palestinian” was being used, and given his noted love for and connection with the oppressed of the world, he probably would have said, “Yes, I am. For inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” Matthew 25:40.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 31, 2013, 4:22 pm

        “taxi, If you had asked Jesus, “Are you a Palestinian?” what would have been his answer? ”

        He claimed that he was not of this world (John 8:23)

      • American
        American
        December 31, 2013, 4:58 pm

        “”In the time of Jesus those who did not live or come from the Arabian peninsula were not Arabs.””” yonah

        So what were they? Do tell us exactly what they were…

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        December 31, 2013, 7:31 pm

        American – – “Another Roman emperor who was Syrian was Philip the Arab (Marcus Julius Philippus), emperor from 242 to 249.” (Wikipedia: Syria history)

      • puppies
        puppies
        December 31, 2013, 8:47 pm

        “To call Jesus a Palestinian Jew, because one identifies the land where he was born as Palestine, due to its name today or at other times in history has an anachronistic sense to it.”

        Anachronistic my axe. Anyone in the world of that time (provided they manage to avoid US high schools) knew the following, apart from the changing military restructuring and the resulting fleeting designations of provinces: Syria was, from the time of Alexander on, divided in three regions or “parts”, Syria coele (“hollow”), Phoenice and Palestine. Regardless of province and kingdom names. The Palestine part housed many different populations, including mainly the Judeans, Samaritans, Idumeans, Galileans and Itureans, the fivefold alliance on which rested the Hasmonean house (also sometimes reported as including the Nabateans, from whom the dynasty seems to have originated) The Hasmoneans cannot be dismissed as anachronistic for the period in question. The region was very firmly and generally known as Palestine, although an official adminisrative province “Syria Palaestina” would be created somewhat later. Hasmoneans sometimes referred improperly to the whole of it as Judea but sometimes with the name of others of their people. Also, people were not identified primarily by their tribe but the place of birth/residence, as in the example of Jesus, “the Galilean”, and even in the epitaph INRI (Iesus nazarenus rex iudaeorum) where he is identified as a Nazarene, before being designated king of the Jews –not a Judean himself.

        So doubtless, if there was a Jesus he must no doubt been keenly aware of being a Palestinian Jew, apart from his tribal identifications.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        January 1, 2014, 1:50 pm

        Great post, Puppies.

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        January 2, 2014, 6:21 am

        yonah fredman says:
        December 31, 2013 at 3:43 pm

        Cliff- Adam Sandler looks plenty middle eastern to me. Woody Allen looks like a light skinned European Jew. (European Jews were not all light skinned, but there were many who were.)

        If Adam Sandler could be taught to speak perfect accentless Arabic, he’d easily “pass for Middle Eastern,” whatever that means, but based on his atrocious faux Israeli accent in Zohan I’m sure he’d never be able to speak either Hebrew or Arabic like a native. For that matter, Woody Allen, light skin and red hair (I guess his hair is white now) and could also pass for a Syrian or a Lebanese Arab or Jew or even a Palestinian–there’s no shortage of Levantine Arabs and Jews with his complexion. Many of my Syrian-Jewish relatives have fairer complexions than many of my Ashkenazi-Jewish family members. But some people are emotionally wedded to a narrative of light-skinned Ashkenazi Europeans oppressing dark-skinned indigenes.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 29, 2013, 2:46 pm

        Taxi, surprise, surprise, as if we don’t have enough with juggling multiple personalities of the Mahane brothers switching and changing on us all the time, now we have the same multiple personalities in yrn. Compare his broken English in today’s posts with the more articulate ones from days past. Can’t figure out what’s behind these games being played by the different hasbarists using same names. Hasbara Central could be using MW as a training stage before assigning agents to other blogs and forums.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 29, 2013, 2:55 pm

        “Hasbara Central could be using MW as a training stage before assigning agents to other blogs and forums.”

        You might be onto something here, Walid: we don’t get professional hasbarados with a tight song-and-dance routine here on MW, we just get the diaper-wearing, two left-footed variety.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        December 29, 2013, 7:59 pm

        I can only think that they assign some responsibility for the ASA vote or at least the atmosphere in which it became possible to us. The onslaught has markedly increased since then and I’m sure we’ve encountered only the advance guard so far I suppose the challenge for them and the technique they’re practising is first to infiltrate and then to invade a lightly moderated site to the point where those of us who sympathise with the site’s objectives cannot conduct a conversation, at least not without bandying words with people whose purpose is disruption and insult. The ban on Nakba denial should be extended clearly to Nakba justification, I think, at least unless Phil wants to invite someone with that idea to address us. Horrible statements of the ‘they were entitled to kill her’ type should not, in my view, see the light of day here. And subject-changing should be controlled.

  16. Walid
    Walid
    December 29, 2013, 4:17 am

    “Israel loves jesus.”

    I doubt it’s reciprocal.

    • yrn
      yrn
      December 29, 2013, 10:48 am

      Taxi

      Moses: A desert Arab.
      Jesus: An olive grove Arab.

      Well now you made your trick again and you made Moses an Arab Too,

      Mohammad: A desert Arab – that’s the only true part in all your bull.

      • yrn
        yrn
        December 29, 2013, 11:07 am

        Taxi

        “Accept that it’s not the white askhanazim converts to judaism who gave the world (for better or for worse) the three Abrahamic religions, but the brown-skinned Arab semites of the middle east.”

        And here we go back to your Racist arguments.
        You just forgot that high percentage of Israelis are from a Sephardi descent, are as you call it in your racist language brown-skinned .

      • puppies
        puppies
        December 29, 2013, 9:10 pm

        Of all the racist things you’d expect from the Zionists, now there is one telling us that people of Spanish descent are “brown-skinned”. There really is no limit.

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        December 30, 2013, 6:26 am

        Puppies: Except yrn was calling out Taxi’s BS where he stereotyped Israelis as “white askhanazim converts to judaism” — Never mind that (A)Ashkenazim are not by and large converts to Judaism (although like every Jewish group in the Diaspora, they absorbed converts into their midst), and (B) most Israeli Jews–most ZIONIST Israeli Jews–are of Mizrahi-or Sefaradi- Jewish descent.

        Of course most people of Spanish descent are not “brown-skinned”, another facile stereotype that is CONSTANTLY bandied around this and other fora is that Arabs, including Palestinian Arabs, are uniformly “brown” (and thus supposedly more authentic and genuine) as opposed to the “white” Israelis. I’m sorry to break your illusions, but most of the Arabic-speaking population that calls itself “Palestinian” these days are white people–some with what’s known as an “olive” Mediterranean complexion (by the way, plenty of Ashkenazim also have a swarthy “olive” complexion too), but many other Palestinian Arabs have very fair skin, blonde or red hair, and blue or green eyes. Why are so many Mondoweiss cultists and their Israel-hating fellow travelers so emotionally wedded to false racial narratives about Palestinian Arabs belonging to some distinctly darker-featured “race”. when the reality is that Palestinian Arabs, just like Israeli Jews, come in all shapes, sizes and colors?

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 30, 2013, 9:56 am

        mikhkhkhkhail,

        Thanks for your map of the United Colors of Beniton. Thanks too for your predictable janitorial duties for Apartheid israel. Unfortunately, clean, clean, clean as you may, the stink and stain of israeli war crimes is permanent. Unlike your colonial lifestyle which is changeable by choice or by force.

      • puppies
        puppies
        December 30, 2013, 10:26 am

        @Mikhael: More racist pap. As if it had anything to do with skin colors. Continuing the desperate effort to hang on to the “diaspora” nonsense. Right, you need it to somehow make yourself a fig leaf, a ‘connection’ for illegal entry and residence in Palestine, coming from Russia or Bessarabia or wherever, to use violence on the legitimate residents and owners.

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        December 30, 2013, 12:06 pm

        re “More racist pap. As if it had anything to do with skin colors. ”

        I certainly don’t think the struggle of the Jewish People to maintain its continued independence in its homeland has anything to do with skin color. Whatever could have given you that idea? I am confused, however, about why so many here on Mondowesiss and other fora dedicated to the proposition that the Jewish People has no right to continued political self-determination and independence in a nation-state of its own in its ancestral homeland CONSTANTLY invoke race and skin color, when as you so aptly pointed out, this is an irrelevant issue. Any search of Mondoweiss threads bring out references yo skin colors by you Mondonuts.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        December 30, 2013, 12:34 pm

        “ancestral homeland” – mikhail,

        Criminal delusion.

      • puppies
        puppies
        December 30, 2013, 5:38 pm

        @mikhail 12/30 in the absence of reply button –
        “I certainly don’t think the struggle of the Jewish People”
        No such thing, you’re affabulating. Which JP? Ostyiddish, Eastern Europe urban, Western urban, Sephardi, Italian, Ethiopian, Bokhari, Jezayri, Beyrouti… what do any of these two have in common except religion, and most don’t have any religion.

        “to maintain its continued independence”
        Who from?

        ” in its homeland”
        Which one? There are so many homelands where these people hold legitimate citizenship and/or reside. Certainly not Palestine, because few Palestinian Jews remain, as they have been persecuted and kicked out by the Zionists, who forbid them residence in part of the territory.

        ” has anything to do with skin color. Whatever could have given you that idea?”
        The beautiful pogroms that you can catch on your screen any day, where a majority lynch mob can be seen performing better than any Cossacks, led by a Government Minister yelling “This is White Man’s Land!” The chicanery, unequal treatment, forced contraception etc forced on Ethiopians lured there by the Zionits themselves. The Zionits’ insistence in always parading their “brown-skinned people”, their words, just to confuse ideas and try to create the impression that Zionism is not a blatantly racist Ashkenazi construct born from the same identical root as Nazism.

        Anyway, let’s see. Where are you from? Russia, Bessarabia, Tadjikistan..? Did you enter Palestine illegally, ie with the help of a usurping occupier against the warning by the legitimate owners of the place? Are you continuing to reside there illegally, ie without authorization from the same? Did you commit yourself to fight the legitimate owners of the place in defence of the racial supremacist state? Did you carry arms?

  17. yrn
    yrn
    December 29, 2013, 6:25 am

    This trend, seeing Dr. Bechore will only grow more intense, “There is a new generation that believes in Israel. Many young push away the attempts to force them a Palestinian identity. They want to fit in the Israeli Society, because they understand that a lot of things that they have grown as a hero’s lost their cob. ”

    29/12/2013
    http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/534/902.html?hp=1&cat=402

    • Walid
      Walid
      December 29, 2013, 8:42 am

      “seeing Dr. Bechore will only grow more intense.”

      That was a Dr Senor, yrn, not Bechore and those collaborators saying in your article they are not Arabs are a lot like the post-civil war Christian Lebanese that also claimed that they weren’t really Arabs but descendants of Phoenicians. Luckily they represented a very minute portion of the Lebanese Christians and I suspect those Palestinian idiots are even fewer. Those few Christians in Israel and Lebanon prove that Arabs too have imbeciles among them.

      • yrn
        yrn
        December 29, 2013, 9:20 am

        Walid

        It is Dr. Guy Bechore and not Dr Senor (learn Hebrew if you want to debate in my Hebrew language).
        BTW Dr. Guy Bechore continues in the article and mentions

        “”Until a decade ago, lived in Iraq for nearly two million Christians. Today stayed barely half a million,” explains orientalist, historian and jurist Dr. Guy Bechore. “In Syria were a million and a half Christians, but since the riots hundreds of thousands of them emigrated from, or in severe cases more slaughtered or forced to convert to Islam. Christians in Israel see all these things and understand exactly who protects them, “he explained.

        The article shows, all the picture the good and the bad things.
        You should respect everyone view, as we have in Israel people that thanks to them you get all the critic’s and are welcomed for thier view, even if you don’t like them.

        I can understand your view in reflection of the tradition in your country, that Political issues that you don’t accept are been solved in other ways.

        The Christians in Israel are not stupid at all they are more realistic then you, they see the Map, how Christians are treated in the Arab Country’s and understand that their opportunity to merge and join the Israeli society will bring them hope.

        So you can call them any name you want, but they are much more realistic and clever then you and your way of thinking.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        December 29, 2013, 12:20 pm

        @ yrn

        The majority of French people supported Vichy France, either directly or by apathy (Southern France, where they didn’t see many German occupation troops) until events happened upon the back of the Normandy invasion, showing them it was no longer probable that Germany would win the war. They were realistic and clever too, eh? How did they help the French Jews, or Jews generally by their realism and cleverness?

    • annie
      annie
      December 29, 2013, 8:48 am

      They want to fit in the Israeli Society, because they understand that a lot of things that they have grown as a hero’s lost their cob. ”

      is this a google translation or is that supposed to make sense? here’s more google translation from your link:

      ” We see ourselves as part of the Palestinian people ,” explained MK Hanna Swede – Christian Man Balad . ” There are cultural differences and mental between Muslims and Christians ,” he explained and elaborated : ” The natural increase in our very small and in fact , we are disappearing . Possibly have occasional friction between Christians and Muslims , but it is important to clarify that we allow to do this cynical use and take advantage of this to try to disconnect us Muslim Arabs . “

      the difference between a representative of the israeli armies Christian community “mobilization Forum” and a Christian MK is one is hired by the state and the other is elected by the people.so who are you going to believe?

      this is not some random coincidence all these news stories come out at once, this is pushback against the negative press israel has received due to their own actions offending the christian community. and what country would like nothing better than to having a faction of their arab community killing off and ethnically cleansing …the arab community! how unique and special! not. isn’t that an old trick, getting arabs to kill eachother?

      we can see thru this and i dare say, the vast majority of christian palestinians in israel see it too.

    • Cliff
      Cliff
      December 29, 2013, 9:00 am

      Nice – wait no, horrible – try, settler.

      Christians in Historic Palestine are Palestinian. No amount of hasbara garbage and selective quotes will ever help your apartheid State’s PR image.

  18. yrn
    yrn
    December 29, 2013, 9:23 am

    Annie

    The vast majority of christian in Israel are much more realistic and clever then you.
    They care about their life, while you sit in your comfort home, they understand much better then you what is going on and made the choice, they will integrate in the Israeli society and act as every other Isralei if you like it or not.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      December 29, 2013, 12:27 pm

      @ yrn
      Yes indeed. Like the French under occupation, the Christian in Israel will do what they need to do, and say what they have to say, to put bread on the table and a roof over their head. Most humans are like that, eh? History has not treated Vichy France kindly. And it hasn’t treated the average German kindly either when it comes to those dozen year’s Hitler had control. Your logic actually supports the POV of both the average supporter of Vichy regime in France, and the average German supporter of Hitler regime in Germany. What a wise man you are!

      • yrn
        yrn
        December 30, 2013, 8:58 am

        Citizen

        I am not a wise man at all.
        I am just realistic as those Christians, while you all are living in your bubble world fantasy, but giving illusion advice to a region and public, you don’t even know, they found out what’s better for their personal life.
        and as you never ever was in a situation like they are, you are the last one to give advice.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        December 30, 2013, 9:22 am

        @yrn –
        Even your tone is colonialist.

    • Cliff
      Cliff
      December 29, 2013, 1:21 pm

      @Ziosettler

      How do you know what all the Christians think? Are you a Palestinian Christian?

      Stop speaking for them you imbecile. You are a Zionist.

    • amigo
      amigo
      December 29, 2013, 5:46 pm

      “they will integrate in the Israeli society and act as every other Isralei if you like it or not.”yrn.

      Christ , I hope not.

      Imagine having another bunch of yrns to deal with.

  19. MahaneYehude1
    MahaneYehude1
    December 29, 2013, 12:54 pm

    @Annie;

    Again can’t find “reply” so I respond here to your last comment;
    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/12/christians-aligned-muslims.html/comment-page-1#comment-624758

    Although the events described in your comment, the fact is that their is a change in the position toward Israel among several Palestinian Christians. If the number you quoted, 55 per annum, is correct, it can be fringe as you said. I am not a sociologist, but I know that such social processes are, most of the times, exponential and have long term consequences.

    Behind those soldiers stand their families, relatives and friends that support them. further more, those soldiers will educate their future children and families to love the country, integrate in the Israeli society and see Israel as their home, exactly as it happens among the Druze.

    I don’t know their motives but, according to them, it started after they realized that they are not in danger in Israel and they want to fully integrate in the Israeli society. The Arab spring and the Christians situation in Arab countries were also catalysts to this process.

    I can’t guess what will be in the future, whether we will see increase in the Christian join the IDF and the national service or decrease. “Days will say”. ימים יגידו!!! But I hope to see the increase and their full integration as well as I hope to see the same process among the Muslim Israeli-Palestinians.

    • annie
      annie
      December 29, 2013, 3:08 pm

      mehane, this is a media campaign, there’s no evidence of anything different going on than israel wanting to change it’s image.

      I don’t know their motives but, according to them, it started after they realized that they are not in danger in Israel and they want to fully integrate in the Israeli society.

      but it’s not ‘according to them’, it’s according to their recruitment priest likely a person hired by the state. and if there are a few christians, well there have always been a few christians in the military.

      Behind those soldiers stand their families, relatives and friends that support them.

      and it’s extremely likely behind those soldiers there are many more families members, relatives and friends that don’t support them. because if they supported them, they themselves would join and you’d see a lot more than 55 recruits in one year from a population of 130,000. that’s called common sense.

      let’s put on our thinking caps ok. the 60 minute show was a huge disaster pr wise for israel. so some think tank is assigned to improve the image, improve relations. they’ve been saying for years the christian community is stuck between the state and muslims. so now, wouldn’t it make sense if they tried to make that manifest?

      common sense. divide and conquer.

  20. Mikhael
    Mikhael
    December 30, 2013, 6:11 am

    The enlistment in the IDF of Israeli citizens of Christian-Arab background is increasing, but so is the enlistment of Israel’s Muslim citizens. There have always been more Israeli Muslims serving and defending their country than Israeli Christians (of course, Israel’s Muslim citizens outnumber Israel’s Christian citizens). In general, sectors of society that formerly shirked military duty, whether Israeli Christians, Muslims, or haredi Jews, are now joining up in ever-increasing numbers. The IDF is happy to have any competent and able-bodied citizen who is willing to serve. Deal with it.

    • Xpat
      Xpat
      December 30, 2013, 8:36 am

      @Mikhael,
      Welcome to the debate. We have several Russian-Israelis here.
      “Shirking” as you put it is becoming increasingly popular among young Israelis, particularly women. It is gaining increasing socially acceptance as the numbers soar. The army is happy not to have them. First, it doesn’t need so many non-combatants (the overwhelming majority of soldiers), second, their indoctrination as Israelis is complete.
      Thirdly, there is no PR stunt to be won. It used to be the sexy girl soldier in cute white socks and a gun that sold Israel to the Americans and Europeans, then it was the platoon of bearded Haredi men. Now it’s going to be priests singing Hatikva handing out Bibles (with or without the New Testament?)

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        December 30, 2013, 12:53 pm

        re “Elliot says:
        December 30, 2013 at 8:36 am

        “@Mikhael,
        Welcome to the debate. We have several Russian-Israelis here.”

        That’s nice. But (A) I wasn’t “debating” anything, merely pointing out that it’s true that many Israeli Christians have been joining the IDF, alongside Muslims, Druze and Jews, and (B)מיכאל is Hebrew, not Russian. I’m not a “Russian” Israeli (not that there’s anything wrong with that), but an American-born and raised child of Israelis of mixed Sefaradi/Mizrahi and Ashkenazi heritage. Some of my father’s ancestors on his maternal side arrived from Spain after the Expulsion and resided in Safed and Tiberias for generations before moving to Jerusalem, on his father’s side they arrived from what’s now Syria (Alleppo) in the 19th century. My mother’s family only came to Israel from Hungary after WW2–but as far as I know, no “Russians” are in my lineage–and by the way, most of the Jews from the former USSR only started getting called “Russians” and identifying as such after they made aliyah en masse–the USSR and the Tsars before them classified them officially as Jews.

        I agree with your comments about the social acceptability of “shirking” to an extent, but witness the outcry over Bar Refaeli’s evasion of her service. Please read again my comment that the IDF is happy to have any citizen who is competent, able-bodied, and willing to serve.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 30, 2013, 2:56 pm

        “merely pointing out that it’s true that many Israeli Christians have been joining the IDF, alongside Muslims, Druze and Jews”

        Mikhael, Druze are Muslims and have been joining for decades, so maybe this is where you’re getting the part about Muslims joining. It’s highly doubtful that any Muslims are joining and the Christians that are are doing it in very insignificant numbers.

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        December 30, 2013, 3:12 pm

        Walid, most Druze I know don’t consider themselves to be Muslims, and most Muslims I know don’t regard them as such (and for sure the Salafists regard it as a form of “bid’ah”) , though their religion started as an offshoot of Islam.

        Many Israeli Muslims, particularly those with roots in the Bedouin and Circassian communities, do indeed serve in the IDF (Circassian males, like Druze males, are drafted, Bedouins volunteer). However, an increasing number of non-Bedouin, non-Circassian, Arabic-speaking Muslim citizens of Israel now voluntarily join the IDF. I did my initial IDF service in the 1990s, and even back then, I knew Muslim Arabs from places like Ramleh who served. The number has only gone up since then. More of them do non-military “national service” too (including in their own communities, if they wish), despite the constant inveighing against it by their supposed leaders.

      • yrn
        yrn
        December 30, 2013, 3:46 pm

        Walid

        It’s hard for you to get it, but more and more Muslims are taking part in the Israeli society, I got many Muslim at my work, that are not ashamed to say and mention that they don’t see themselves connected by any issue to the Palestinian struggle and want to take part and adjust to the Israeli society and they are more then welcome.
        Those people are not blind or stupid and see what’s going on in our area and understand that their situation is great and don’t see any reason not to take part in the Israeli society.
        There are more and more Muslims doing civil service , in hospitals, schools etc…. and more and more are joining the army.

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 31, 2013, 4:50 pm

        “Walid, most Druze I know don’t consider themselves to be Muslims, and most Muslims I know don’t regard them as such ”

        Mikhael, the Druze you knew were either humouring you because their elders told them to do so to get you on their side, or they were ignorant; the Druze are definitely Muslims. The Muslims you hang around with are also ignorant. Get yourself some smart friends for the new year.

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        January 2, 2014, 2:51 am

        Mikhael, the Druze you knew were either humouring you because their elders told them to do so to get you on their side

        Maybe the Druze who tell you that they’re Muslim say so to get you on their side? As if I wouldn’t be “on their side” if they were really Muslim?
        The more conservative elements in Muslim society are much less forgiving towards sects that are rooted in Islam but which have abandoned orthodox Islamic belief, e.g., the Bahai.
        And anyway, if someone is a decent human being, then I’m “on their side”, most Israelis feel the same way, and no citizen has anything to fear in Israeli society, including in the IDF, by being an open, “out-of the-closet” Muslim. If the Druze in Israel were really just a fringe sect of Muslims, they’d come out and say so. (There is an Ahmadi mosque in Haifa, they tell all the Jews that they are proud Muslims, no beating around the bush, no shame, but all the fundamentalist Sunnis bash them as non-Muslim heretics anyway.)

        or they were ignorant; the Druze are definitely Muslims.

        Most Druze and most Muslims think otherwise. Of course, most Druze who are not “ukal,” are by definition ignorant (juhal). I’m not a Muslim and not a Druze so therefore it’s improper for me to issue an authoritative opinion, but anyone who knows a little bit (and yes, sure, I know just a little bit about both religions) can see they stray from what people consider “normative” Islam. There’s even controversy within Islam as to whether it’s proper to regard Ahmadiyya and Alawi as proper Muslims, and of course the crazy Takfiri Salafist Sunnis say anybody who doesn’t agree with their narrow views aren’t “real” Muslims, but I think from what is known of the Druze religion (and much of it is esoteric), they don’t believe in or observe basic normative Islam.

        If you want to be expansive and broadminded and include Druze under the big Muslim tent, I guess that’s cool, nobody can stop you, but it’s an identity that most don’t embrace. It’s kind of like the people who insist that my grandfather was an Arab because he spoke Arabic as his first language and because his family was from Halab. It’s kind of like people telling me I am an Arab because I have an Arabic surname. It’s presumptuous to impose an identity on people that they don’t embrace.

        The Muslims you hang around with are also ignorant. Get yourself some smart friends for the new year.

        I came here looking for some, but I ain’t finding any.

  21. seafoid
    seafoid
    December 30, 2013, 7:33 am

    The WSJ is a Murdoch rag. Zionism, small government and climate change denial are the Murdoch staples.

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      December 30, 2013, 2:12 pm

      WSJ has some excellent reporting from the Middle East, however. See today’s report on the Sultan of Oman and his efforts to mediate PG disputes.

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