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Last mass in Beit Jala, as state is poised to grab Palestinian Christians’ land

Israel/Palestine
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Israeli soldier walks away after handing a demolition order to Sister Adrianna of the Cremisan monastery. Photo by Olivier Fitoussi

Israeli soldier walks away after handing a demolition order to Sister Adrianna of the Cremisan monastery.                (Photo by Olivier Fitoussi)

As Israel ramps up its hasbara (Hebrew for p.r.) on an alleged “Christian awakening” and pretends to be “the protector of Christian minorities,” in a few days the state is hoping to seize a huge swath of lush green land in the Cremisan Valley north of Beit Jala and annex it to the settlement of Har Gilo, between Jerusalem and Bethlehem. If all goes as planned, the legendary Cremisan Monastery, winery and vineyard will be severed from its convent by the apartheid wall.

Last April the Tel Aviv Magistrates court rejected a petition by 58 Palestinian landowners and representatives of the monastery to reroute the wall, on the grounds of “security.” On January 29, Israel’s high court will issue its final ruling on an appeal over the seizure of more Palestinian-owned land. Folks hope that the ruling will go the occupied landowners’ way, but the state is poised to steal the land.

For years “this hidden gem of land has served the Palestinian Christian community for business, education and religion,” writes Allison Deger in last spring’s A Catholic heritage community is next on the occupation’s chopping block. And on Friday the last weekly mass was held in Beit Jala as residents waited for Israel’s supreme court to rule.

Papal Scout Troop member of Beit Jala looks on during Friday mass. Jan24,2013 (MaanImages/Charlie Hoyle)

Papal Scout Troop member of Beit Jala looks on during Friday mass. Jan24,2013 (MaanImages/Charlie Hoyle) The final ruling is on Jan. 29.

Charlie Hoyle reporting for Ma’an writes there’s little faith in the community that justice will prevail: “People do not trust the Israeli courts. They just have hope in God to change the mentality of Israel’s army and political leaders,” Rev. [William] Shomali told  Ma’an.”

Ma’an News, Last mass held in Beit Jala as court to rule on land seizure 

“The pope is coming as a peace pilgrimage to the Holy Land to build bridges and here we are seeing that a wall is being erected.” “This is a way of exodus. This is a way of pushing people out and there is no legitimate grounds for this confiscation by the Israelis, so we hope that the power of logic will prevail and not the logic of power.” Israel is constructing some of the last segments of its wall on lands west of Bethlehem, including the Cremisan monastery area, and al-Walaja village.

…After a seven-year legal battle, 58 local landowners, and nuns from the Salesian convent who joined their legal action, lost an appeal against the route of the separation wall in April 2013. The ruling last year proposed that the convent, and adjacent school, remain on the Palestinian side of the wall, but the nuns would lose access to 75 percent of their land and the school would be situated in a military zone surrounded by the separation wall. The Cremisan monastery and winery would be on the Israeli side on the wall, splitting the religious community, and residents would no longer be able to participate in the annual religious event of the Holy Spirit Procession, which sees local Christians walk from Cremisan to the Annunciation church in Beit Jala.

….Grace Abu Mohor, a teacher in Beit Jala who is set to lose 20 dunams of land and hundreds of olive trees, says Israel is seeking to annex the land in order to expand nearby settlements. “Our hope is just in God. I don’t think we have any hope with the Israelis. We look for peace but they don’t know what the word peace means.”

Abu Mohor says the seizure of family land which dates back generations will force Christians out of Beit Jala. “I think this is what they want, but we are staying here until God takes our life.”

 

As Dr. Reem Khamis-Dakwar makes clear, “the treatment of Palestinian Christians is particularly crucial to Israel’s image “. The facts stand bare, the cruel vivid reality is there for all to see. This continued lie that Christians are leaving the Holy Land because of oppression from Palestinian Muslims, when contrasted against the stark policy decisions imposed by the state, is absurd.

 

xxx

Severing Palestinian agricultural land in Cremisan Valley (graphic: Haaretz)

 

 

annie
About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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39 Responses

  1. joecatron
    joecatron
    January 25, 2014, 4:49 pm

    In one sense, Annie’s right that it’s “Palestinian Christians’ land.” But in another important one, Ma’an reports that “the Vatican … owns the land threatened with confiscation.”

    Which raises some interesting questions. Why does Israel want to pick a fight with the Vatican now?

    And on the eve of his first papal visit to the Holy Land in May, what’s Pope Francis going to do?

    • just
      just
      January 25, 2014, 4:57 pm

      My hope is that Pope Francis will speak to Annie’s end paragraph which captures the crux of the Israeli charade/crimes so brilliantly:

      “As Dr. Reem Khamis-Dakwar makes clear, “the treatment of Palestinian Christians is particularly crucial to Israel’s image “. The facts stand bare, the cruel vivid reality is there for all to see. This continued lie that Christians are leaving the Holy Land because of oppression from Palestinian Muslims, when contrasted against the stark policy decisions imposed by the state, is absurd.”

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      January 25, 2014, 5:17 pm

      @Joe Catron- “Why does Israel want to pick a fight with the Vatican now?”

      Who knows. But I suspect the “why” is closely related to the “why” of announcing settlement expansion timed to visits by Kerry, Biden, and everyone else trying to solve their (Israel’s, directly) problems.

      You wouldn’t think such high levels of arrogance and desperation could be so tightly interwoven, other than in addicts.

      BTW, thanks for your tweet stream. It helps sort out what’s significant.

    • annie
      annie
      January 25, 2014, 5:19 pm

      well the catholic church may own land in the US too, but it’s still on american soil joe. it’s palestinian land on palestinian territory.

      .Grace Abu Mohor, a teacher in Beit Jala who is set to lose 20 dunams of land and hundreds of olive trees, says Israel is seeking to annex the land in order to expand nearby settlements.

      ..Abu Mohor says the seizure of family land which dates back generations will force Christians out of Beit Jala.

      good question tho, what is the pope going to do? and this has been going on for many many years, so i’m not sure the ‘now’ question is applicable. had the palestinians not brought suit, the case never would have been in from of the tel aviv court,and had they not appealed, it would not have been in front of the supreme court. and the legal process takes a long time. the timing however, could ed up being fortuitous if we can pressure israel at a time people seem to be paying more attention.

      i’m going to be writing more about this between now and the 29th. there are some other aspects about this i didn’t mention that i find really repulsive.

    • Walid
      Walid
      January 25, 2014, 5:30 pm

      “And on the eve of his first papal visit to the Holy Land in May, what’s Pope Francis going to do?”

      Absolutely nothing, Joe, see my comment on Kate’s thread. He’s coming to mend some fences with the Zionists damaged on the watch of the last pope.

      • just
        just
        January 25, 2014, 5:36 pm

        I would not underestimate this Pope.

      • ritzl
        ritzl
        January 25, 2014, 6:14 pm

        In both priorities and courage.

      • Walid
        Walid
        January 25, 2014, 6:39 pm

        Pope is coming to patch things up, not create more divisions. One wrong word out of him and the Zionists will trot out the Pius XII pending canonization that Francis would dearly love to see happen. There is probably more a chance of his coming with hat in hand to get Israel’s OK to proceed with the canonization than there is of him starting a rumble about the wall cutting through the monastery’s vineyards. From YNet a few months back, a statement by Pope Francis that more or less negates the resolution adopted by the Bishops’ Synod that formed part of the Apostolic Exhortation issued by Pope Benedict XVI; the original resolution had been watered down after a vicious campaign against it by Abe Foxman The issue is in question is in the paragraph that starts with “in response to questions”:

        “,,, Pope Francis praises Jews in Italian paper
        In unprecedented open letter published on front page of ‘La Repubblica,’ head of Roman Catholic Church writes that Jews serve as example for Christians

        Published: 09.15.13, 13:45 / Israel Jewish Scene

        VIDEO – Pope Francis has praised Jews in an unprecedented open letter to an atheist editor of Rome’s liberal newspaper “La Repubblica.”

        The letter was published on the front page of its September 11 edition, and acted as a response to editorials that had addressed the pontiff on issues of religion and faith.

        Video courtesy of jn1.tv

        The pope’s reply calls for a necessary and open dialogue with nonbelievers, whom he calls right, proper and precious.

        In response to questions regarding what should be said to Jews about the promise made to them by God, Pope Francis wrote that this is a question that radically challenges Christians, because Christians have rediscovered that the Jewish people are the holy root from which Jesus germinated.

        The pope, who has close ties with Jewish people from his time as archbishop of Buenos Aires, says that Jews serve as an example for Christians.

        He says that they point Christians to the fact that they are always waiting for the Lord’s return, and so must always be open to him and never take refuge in what they have already attained.

        In June 2012 he said “a Christian cannot be an anti-Semite; to be a good Christian it is necessary to understand Jewish history and traditions.”

        Francis wished the Jewish community a happy new year,”

        http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4429511,00.html

      • Walid
        Walid
        January 25, 2014, 7:02 pm

        More on the rumble between the Zionists and the Vatican on the canonization of Pius XII, from Wiki:

        “… Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust
        Pius XII’s elevation to Venerable status elicited “howls of protest from Jewish groups across Europe and the world” because of Pius XII’s controversial record during the Holocaust.[1] The World Jewish Congress called the action “inopportune and premature”.[8] Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder and dean at the Simon Wiesenthal Center said he was “amazed” and that “it has become our business, because in my opinion, there would be a great distortion of history” if Pius XII were canonized.[9] According to CNN, “in Israel the news has been met with a mixture of disappointment, bewilderment and anger by Jewish leaders”.[4]
        The American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and Their Descendants called the announcement “profoundly insensitive and thoughtless” and added that “pairing the announcement on Pius — who remained publicly silent during the Holocaust — with that on John Paul II, himself a victim of the Nazis, is a particularly disturbing and callous act.”[10]
        Stephan Kramer, secretary-general of the Central Council of Jews in Germany, called the declaration a “hijacking of historical facts concerning the Nazi era” and said that Benedict XVI “rewrites history without having allowed a serious scientific discussion. That’s what makes me furious.”[1]
        Rabbi Jeremy Lawrence, the head of Sydney’s Great Synagogue, said: “How can one venerate a man who showed such cowardice, who was so close a bystander that he seemed to give his passive permission to the Nazis as the Jews were pried from his doorstep in Rome?”.[8]
        Rabbi Yisrael Lau, the Chairman of Yad Vashem, said: “I say with all the respect. Don’t do it, especially not now when many survivors are still alive and it will hurt them deeply knowing that the man who could save, could do much more and did not do it. Don’t make him holy. This is a shame I think for the church. It is not a good education for generations to come.”[4]
        At odds with those Jews who opposed the canonization of Pius XII, there is the case of Israel Zolli, Chief Rabbi of Rome from 1939-1945. Rabbi Zolli became a Catholic, taking the name of Eugenio in honor of Pius XII.”

        For links:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization_of_Pope_Pius_XII

      • American
        American
        January 26, 2014, 12:39 am

        “How can one venerate a man who showed such cowardice, who was so close a bystander that he seemed to give his passive permission to the Nazis as the Jews were pried from his doorstep in Rome?”.[8]”

        I am curious how they thought the Pope could save the Jews when the Germans were 0ccupying and running Rome. What army would he have used against the nazis?
        From the one book I read on Italy during WWII the Vatican was under lockdown or ‘close observation’ by the nazis specifically because they suspected it might be a escape source for Jews.
        I’ll have to research this some more but what I think it will probably come down to is what I said before—-what was the Pope’s first duty–to protect the Catholics from nazi rath or protect the Jews from nazi rath—-quite a between a rock and hard place spot to be in.
        If the position had been reversed who would the Rabbis and Jews have protected or risked…..their people or the Catholics?
        Do we have anything in history to show us?

      • Walid
        Walid
        January 26, 2014, 5:26 pm

        “In response to questions regarding what should be said to Jews about the promise made to them by God, Pope Francis wrote that this is a question that radically challenges Christians, because Christians have rediscovered that the Jewish people are the holy root from which Jesus germinated.” (YNet)

        I’ll come back to that one since it probably sounded like a lot of Chinese to many here and it’s a slow evening anyway.

        In 2010, a synod of ME Bishops bishops convened in Rome to discuss the future of the Christians in the Middle East in light of the rough times they were having in Iraq and mostly everywhere else in the region including Palestine, which was probably the most affected.

        When their work was completed, 2 of their conclusions had a direct effect on Palestinians and Israelis. The Bishops resolved:

        1- That Jews were not the chosen people as with the coming of Christ, every person on earth became God’s chosen, and

        2- That the promise made to Abraham pertaining to Palestine that was gifted to them was no longer in effect as with the coming of Christ, God entered into a new covenant with mankind.

        The Bishops, spearheaded by Archbishop Salim Bustros, a Lebanese-American in Massachusetts at the time, also concluded that the Israelis could no longer lay claim to the land based on a promise described in the Bible and more importantly, could no longer continue occupying the Palestinian’s lands based on the 2 principles.

        The 2 resolutions were short and clear and they were published in the press as how they’d be presented to the Pope. That’s when the ADL and Abe Foxman addressed a letter to Cardinal Koch, President of the Vatican’s Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews complaining about the resolutions in question and asking that the recommendations be disregarded. Here’s Abe Foxman’s letter:

        “… Dear Cardinal Koch:

        We write to protest the shocking and outrageous anti-Jewish comments made by Greek Melkite Archbishop Cyril Salim Bustros in connection with the final communique of the Bishops Synod on the Middle East.

        By stating that God’s Covenantal promise of land to the Jewish people, “was nullified by Christ” and that “there is no longer a chosen people,” Archbishop Bustros is effectively stating that Judaism should no longer exist. This represents the worst kind of anti-Judaism, bordering on anti-Semitism.

        Archbishop Bustros contradicts decades of official Vatican and papal teachings which affirm God’s ongoing Covenant with the Jewish people at Sinai, and calls on Christians to appreciate the Jewish people’s religious self-understanding, including its spiritual attachment to the land of Israel (CF. The 1985 “Notes on the Correct Way To Present Jews and Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church 25″).

        As we prepare to commemorate the 45th anniversary of the Vatican Second Council and the adoption of Nostra Aetate, which launched a historic new and respectful theological and familial relationship between Catholics and Jews, we urge that you swiftly and publicly correct Archbishop Bustros’s shocking and damaging statements.

        We also respectfully ask that the Vatican clarify whether Archbishop Bustros’ interpretation of the Synod’s final report reflects the intention of the Synod on these profound theological matters.

        We look forward to your response.”

        The statements made by Archbishop Bustros:

        “… Archbishop Cyril Salim Bustros, head of the commission which drew up the statement, went one step further, saying: “The theme of the Promised Land cannot be used as a basis to justify the return of the Jews to Israel and the expatriation of the Palestinians.”

        “For Christians, one can no longer talk of the land promised to the Jewish people,” the Lebanese-born head of the Greek Melkite Church in the United States said, because the “promise” was “abolished by the presence of Christ.”

        By the time Benedictus XVI got around to completing the wrapping around the synod’s overall conclusions, about 18 months passed and the final report came out in September 2012 in an Apostolic Exhortation that was delivered in Beirut during his visit there. Surprisingly, it did not contain the 2 resolutions as they had been very clearly and categorically stated, but written in wishy-washy language that are hard to find even with a magnifying glass. Abe Foxman had won that battle. The question now being asked of Pope Francis is somewhat a bit of twisting the knife to get a clear distancing away from what the Bishops were advancing back in 2010 to put those 2 concepts 6 feet under.

        http://archive.adl.org/nr/exeres/94892fc4-d944-4e43-9fa9-d88ec8515fcb,0b1623ca-d5a4-465d-a369-df6e8679cd9e,frameless.html

        http://mginews.com/content/view/882/2/

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        January 26, 2014, 10:04 pm

        Walid,

        Oddly there is no reply button below your post (“In response to questions…”).

        Regarding the Pope’s statement: Catholics could not “rediscover” that Jews were Jesus’ root, since they always said He was Jewish biologically.
        BUT, Jesus Himself is also called the “root” of Jesse. Jesus is considered “the root” in Christianity.

        On the Mideast Bishops’ statement:
        1. The Jews became no longer “the” chosen people, but they are still chosen.

        2. The bishops thought that the covenant with Abraham is no longer “in effect”. But this is semantic too: The covenant can be considered in effect but changed and applies to more than one people.

        The ADL concluded that 1. and 2. implied Judaism has no reason to exist.

        If Christianity thinks it is the one right religion, then Yes, other religions do not have a reason to exist. But if Christianity follows the God of Abraham like the bishops do, then it preaches beliefs of Judaism, which means they have to exist.

      • ckg
        ckg
        January 25, 2014, 9:53 pm

        I agree with just and Ritzl. This Pope has a conscience–give him a chance. But let’s meet back here after the dust settles.

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 26, 2014, 5:29 am

        American,
        If you really want to read more, this is part of my comment on the issue from a few months ago:
        As to Pope Pius XII, he “earned” the title of “Hitler’s Pope”. From his pre-papal career, signing the concordat with Nazi Germany, through his silence during the Holocaust. Prof. Saul Friedlander provides a scathing indictment of Pius XII in the second volume of Nazi Germany and the Jews, titled “The Years of Extermination” (2007), especially p.559-577.

      • amigo
        amigo
        January 26, 2014, 6:49 am

        no jon s we are not interested in what a zionist like friedlander thinks of our Pope.

        Note, it was a Catholic Boarding school who saved friedlander but you do not bother to mention that eh jon s.Do you seriously think all Goys are put on this planet to serve Jews.

        “Saul Friedländer was born in Prague to a family of German-speaking Jews. He grew up in France and experienced the German Occupation of 1940–1944. From 1942 until 1944, Friedländer was hidden in a Catholic boarding school in Montlucon, near Vichy, posing as a Gentile.”

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Friedl%C3%A4nder

      • Walid
        Walid
        January 26, 2014, 8:40 am

        Jon, Pius XII purposely remained quiet during the Nazis’ early days because he was working in the shadows to save Jews and didn’t want to arouse suspicions. He is actually credited with saving 800,000 Jews from the Nazis. I hope you have faith in your Jewish Virtual Library that says:

        “… The real question is, therefore, not what did the Pope say, but what did the Pope do? Actions speak louder than words. Papal policy in Nazi Europe was directed with an eye to local conditions. It was co- ordinated with local hierarchies. Nazi policy towards the Jews varied from country to country. Thus, although anti-Jewish measures were met in France by public protest from Archbishop Saliege of Toulouse, together with Archbishop Gerlier of Lyons and Bishop Thias of Mantauban, their protest was backed by a highly effective rescue and shelter campaign. 200,000 lives were saved. In Holland, as Fr Michael O’Carroll writes, the outcome was ‘tragically different’. The Jewish historian Pinchas Lapide sums it up:

        “The saddest and most thought provoking conclusion is that whilst the Catholic clergy of Holland protested more loudly, expressly and frequently against Jewish persecutions than the religious hierarchy of any other Nazi-occupied country, more Jews – some 11,000 or 79% of the total – were deported from Holland; more than anywhere else in the West.”

        Van Kessel’s view is therefore borne out by the experience of Nazi Holland: protest merely made for more reprisals.

        What of Rome itself? In 1943 the German ambassador to the Holy See, Von Weizsaecker, sent a telegram to Berlin. The telegram has been cited as damning ‘evidence’ against Pius XII.

        “Although under pressure from all sides, the Pope has not let himself be drawn into any demonstrative censure of the deportation of Jews from Rome … As there is probably no reason to expect other German actions against the Jews of Rome we can consider that a question so disturbing to German-Vatican relations has been liquidated.”

        Von Weizsaecker’s telegram was in fact a warning not to proceed with the proposed deportation of the Roman Jews: ‘there is probably no reason to expect other German actions against the Jews of Rome’. Von Weizsaecker’s action was backed by a warning to Hitler from Pius XII: if the pursuit and arrest of Roman Jews was not halted, the Holy Father would have to make a public protest. together the joint action of Von Weizsaecker and Pius XII ended the Nazi manhunt against the Jews of Rome. 7,000 lives were saved.

        In Hungary, an estimated 80,000 baptismal certificates were issued by Church authorities to Jews. In other areas of Eastern Europe the Vatican escape network (organised via Bulgaria by the Nuncio Roncalli – later John XXIII) has impressed those writers who have studied the subject, with the effectiveness of the Church’s rescue operation. David Herstig concludes his book on the subject thus:

        “Those rescued by Pius are today living all over the world. There went to Israel alone from Romania 360,000 to the year 1965.”

        The vindication of Pius XII has been established principally by Jewish writers and from Israeli archives. It is now established that the Pope supervised a rescue network which saved 860,000 Jewish lives – more than all the international agencies put together.

        After the war the Chief Rabbi of Israel thanked Pius XII for what he had done. The Chief Rabbi of Rome went one step further. He became a Catholic. He took the name Eugenio.”

        http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/piusdef.html

      • Ellen
        Ellen
        January 26, 2014, 3:34 pm

        Jon s, none of us were there. Stones can be thrown to all of those in power and influence at the time. Failure was everywhere. Likely none could look back and say they could not have done more.

        There is quiet shame among the Jewish Community in Switzerland and how little was done (almost nothing) to aid Jewish Communities in Europe. But would it be fair to throw stones? I think not.

        Did the Catholic Church do all it could or should? In retrospect surely not. Yet much went on behind the scenes, much we do not know about. The Pope may have been weak. May have succumbed to intimidation. Maybe was a fool. Or maybe not.

        It is not for nothing that the largest group to perish in Dachau were Catholics. Do you think the Pope caused their deaths?

      • Stephen Shenfield
        Stephen Shenfield
        January 27, 2014, 7:37 am

        Not only Christians but also Jews believed for many centuries that God had withdrawn the “promise of land” from the Jews, though for a different reason — that is, as punishment for the Jews’ sins. The covenant was from the start conditional on the Jews’ behavior. Of course, God, being God, could do whatever He liked without being charged with breaking the covenant.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        January 27, 2014, 9:06 am

        “The covenant was from the start conditional on the Jews’ behavior”

        The covenant is whatever you want it to be. now it includes torture for justice.
        Is the covenant written and signed anywhere ?

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 28, 2014, 4:10 am

        Amigo,
        What’s your problem with Prof. Friedlander? Do you have a problem with his methodology? the depth of his knowledge? the quality of his writing? his conclusions?

        No , Friedlander is a Zionist, so you’re ” not interested” in what he has to say, despite the fact that he’s one of the foremost historians of the Holocaust -especially on the issue of the attitude of the Catholic Church during those dark years.
        All you can come up with is a silly question like :”Do you seriously think all Goys are put on this planet to serve Jews.”
        What a closed mind.

    • American
      American
      January 25, 2014, 5:50 pm

      “Why does Israel want to pick a fight with the Vatican now?”

      Because they are and operate like scum mafia thugs……they confiscate or threaten to demolish a Catholic monastery and displace Catholics—-and then they offer to ‘trade it back’ if the Pope or Church says this or that nice in their favor or tones down any criticism he may be tempted to make during his visit.
      Or this could be Netanyahu “lashing out” again at Kerry, the world, all the Isr critics by venting his rage, his need to ‘hurt’ someone on Palestines cause he cant actually do anything to anyone else…sick bastard.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        January 26, 2014, 8:06 am

        ‘Because they are and operate like scum mafia thugs”……

        Word. They are not Jews. They are sons of bitches.

        The Palestinians are not alone.
        The Zionists are.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        January 26, 2014, 2:49 pm

        The Vatican is part of the international – moderate in intention but committed in effect – support for the status quo in the Middle East. Some blackmail is employed, as we saw from Netanyahu’s menacing gift to the Pope of a book about inquisitions, Spain and all that. There’s plenty of bad history beside that concerning Pope Pius that can be put to use going all the way back to the first century. Bad history in the sense of really bad things done and of wild, misleading rhetoric.
        I don’t fully share the view that Pius is vindicated, though maybe this is not the place to thrash the matter out. At any rate, I don’t think that we Christians should deny that there was plenty of Christian cooperation with Nazis based partly on shared nationalism (esp. German Protestants, smarting after Versailles), absolute anti-communism (esp. Catholic leaders, provoked by events in Mexico and Spain) and desperate measures for self-preservation – we’re all human. Plenty of Christian opposition too, there’s always light and darkness.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        January 26, 2014, 3:27 pm

        Yes but it’s about morality NOW. Who has just failed a morality fitness test? Zionism is like Man Utd. Suddenly leaden footed. Glazers….

      • jon s
        jon s
        January 27, 2014, 2:40 am

        Walid,
        You’re not being accurate in reference to what the Jewish Virtual Library is saying . The JVL provides , apparently in an attempt to be “balanced”, two views of Pope Pius XII , one “pro”, which you provided the link to, and one “con”, which is here:
        http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html
        Moreover, the favourable view is taken from a Catholic website.
        I’m well aware of the many Catholic clergy who helped and saved Jews during those dark years . One of them was a young Polish priest named
        Karol Józef Wojtyła, the future Pope John Paul II.

      • Walid
        Walid
        January 27, 2014, 3:26 am

        Jon, what this is about takes us back to the never ending search by Zionist to kick up some dust about the holocaust by trying to block the canonization of Pius XII on something that may or may not be true about his involvement with Jews and Nazis just to keep the holocaust in the news is really overdoing it. Canonization means nothing to me, as the Church is up to around 3200 saints already. Making Pius a saint isn’t going to change a single thing for Jews or Muslims, but this controversy kicked up by the Zionists is simply nauseating. I think it has already started to backfire in some countries and among the younger Jews. That’s what it’s about.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        January 27, 2014, 4:13 am

        Sah kalamak

        Young people look at Israel and ask WTF are they doing.
        “we have to honor the memory of the dead by torturing children”
        Try selling that at Walmart.

  2. Cliff
    Cliff
    January 25, 2014, 7:37 pm

    Oh, but I thought Michael Oren said the Palestinian Christians loved Israeli apartheid and had converted to Zionism?

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      January 25, 2014, 10:40 pm

      Yeah. They have so much faith in the wisdom of their jewish leaders to do the right thing. It is never too late. Until it is.

  3. Mike_Konrad
    Mike_Konrad
    January 26, 2014, 4:06 am

    No one ever gives a good map. The map you show does not explain the situation.

    I cannot even tell which side is Israel or Palestinian.

    For example, if the wall is the straight line, it makes the Israeli position look logical, even if pitiless.

    If the wall is the squiggly line which goes to Mount Gilo, it more clearly makes it look like a land grab. Can you give us a better delineated drawing?

    No one ever shows good maps in these sitations.

    • just
      just
      January 26, 2014, 10:10 am

      This “sitations” should not be happening and is barbaric.

      Perhaps this map can clear things up for you. Scroll down:

      http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=667741

      • oneof5
        oneof5
        January 26, 2014, 10:56 am

        This one is likely to a real problem for Mikey … you see Mikey’s idea and game plan is to pay the Palestinians to go away and then export ’em to South America … where there is some evidence that assimilation causes Muslims to convert to Christianity

        Problem here is the Palestinians in question are already Christian …

        It’s always those pesky details that cause problems … for men and mice

    • amigo
      amigo
      January 26, 2014, 10:54 am

      “No one ever shows good maps in these sitations.”MK

      Mike conrad, Perhaps you can provide us a link to the Israeli map they showed to the Palestinians.The ones we keep hearing about but never see.
      You know, the one where Barak went further than anyone blahh blah blah, or the one where Olmert gave the whole shop away.

    • Bumblebye
      Bumblebye
      January 26, 2014, 12:56 pm

      You see that GREEN line at the top of the picture dummy?
      The WHOLE, ENTIRETY of the land is in PALESTINE!
      NONE of it is IN Israel.

    • eljay
      eljay
      January 26, 2014, 1:19 pm

      >> No one ever gives a good map.

      Sure they do. Here’s a most excellent map:

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg

      The problem isn’t that no-one ever gives a good map. The problem is that despite the fact that the oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” accepted that map, hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like you continue to refuse to accept it.

  4. seafoid
    seafoid
    January 26, 2014, 9:47 am

    The bots insist that everything be brought back 2000 years. So here’s another view.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Accius

    “Atreus featured the line oderint dum metuant (“let them hate, so long as they fear”), later an infamous motto of Caligula.”

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4478838,00.html

    Israel’s captains of industry fear boycott

    “Leaders from Israel’s tech and banking industries will fly to Davos economic forum to support Kerry’s peace effort, urge Israel and Palestinians to reach deal to save Israel’s economy from looming boycott
    A hundred of Israel’s leading businessmen and businesswomen will fly to Davos next week, armed with a poignant message for the prime minister: Maintaining a growing and stable economy requires Israel to make peace with Palestinians, the sooner the better.

    •Follow Ynetnews on Facebook and Twitter

    Leaders and businesspeople ranging from Strauss Group Chairwoman Ofra Strauss to Google Israel CEO Meir Bren and former UN ambassador Dan Gillerman will descend on the Davos Economic Forum to urge Israelis and Palestinians leaders to reach a diplomatic solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”

    the Palestinians will be singing when they are winning

    • Walid
      Walid
      January 27, 2014, 3:39 am

      “The bots insist that everything be brought back 2000 years. So here’s another view.”

      Muslim fundamentalists like the Brotherhood, the Salafists and other Wahabists want everything brought back 1400 years, the days of the Prophet, PBUH. Does that make them better or worse?

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        January 27, 2014, 4:22 am

        It makes them the same
        Ikhwaan al jahaliyeh in my book.

        The problem with bringing everything back is you throw out everything that was learnt in the meantime.
        And you can never be pure. It’s as ridiculous as counting angels on a pinhead .
        What did the first Caliphs have to say about menstruating women ? I know what the Jewish sages did and it’s not going to fly with Ms Cosmopolitan

        http://www.cosmopolitan.com/

  5. annie
    annie
    January 29, 2014, 8:24 am

    today is the 29th. the day the court makes their final ruling.

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