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J’lem mayor warns Palestinians in holy site clashes: ‘if they use violence we will hunt them’

Israel/Palestine
on 88 Comments

On Friday afternoon prayers one Palestinian was shot by Israeli forces, and two Israeli police were injured in clashes across Jerusalem, amid a week of upheaval centering around al-Aqsa Mosque. In preparation for a call from Hamas for a “day of rage,” Israeli police deployed 5,000 forces around Jerusalem and limited access to the Muslim holy sites by age. By evening Israel’s parliament approved drafting army reservists to street patrols, a signal of continuing strife.

“If they use violence we will hunt them and we will increase measures,” Jerusalem’s mayor Nir Barkat said yesterday. This followed Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s announcement that police would begin using live-fire for crowd control in Jerusalem, “to make sure terrorists will not gain what they want to gain.”

“Their strategic aim is to prevent religious freedom—when I say religious freedom I mean even the right of Jews to visit quietly,” Barkat said.

“Our job now is to cool things down, to return security,” he said.

Foreign Minister Director-General Dore Gold spoke alongside Barkat at a meeting with journalists and said that Palestinian demonstrations at al-Aqsa did not take place spontaneously. “There is an orchestration in play here,” he said. “Unfortunately the Palestinian Authority has also been swept into this violence.”

Foreign Minister Director-General Dore Gold. (Photo: (Thomas Coax/AFP)

Foreign Minister Director-General Dore Gold. (Photo: (Thomas Coax/AFP)

Gold also cited Hamas and the Islamic movement of Northern Israel as responsible for revving up Palestinians to clash with Israeli police in the religious compound.

Gold slammed Palestinian Liberation Organization head Saeb Erekat for saying two days ago that Israel is undertaking “attempts at turning Jerusalem into an exclusively Jewish city.” Gold said:

“If you start spreading rumors that Israel wants to fundamentally change the status quo or make Jerusalem like Hebron [you] therefore put fear in the hearts of many Muslims,”

The center of Hebron has been taken over by religious Jewish settlers; and the Ibrahimi Mosque, or Cave of the Patriarchs, is split between Palestinian and Israeli use.

Yet Palestinians say the current uptick in clashes is a result of Israel allowing nationalists who seek the construction of a Jewish temple on the site into the holy complex. They dispute claims that organized groups are behind the clashes between Palestinian teens and Israeli police.

“Israeli attempts at changing Jerusalem’s status quo will be met with more Palestinian steadfastness on the ground, including legal and political efforts to end Israel’s culture of impunity,” Erekat said.

Under an agreement made after the 1967 war, people of all faiths can enter the Noble Sanctuary, or Haram al-Sharif, the plaza that houses the Muslim holy sites—the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque. The Jordanian Waqf administers the site, but Israeli border police control the entrances to the compound. Around 11,000 Jews and nearly 4 million others of all religious backgrounds visit the religious compound annually. Under the post-war negotiation, Jews are forbidden to pray within the plaza. Yet a growing movement of right-wing politicians is trying to challenge that policy.  The compound also includes the Temple Mount, an area where the first and second Jewish temples are said to have stood, and is one of Judaism’s most revered sites.

In recent years the number of right-wing Israelis entering through the tourist gate have sharply increased. Israeli police reported at the beginning of the year Jewish visitors are up 92 percent from 2009. Palestinians see their presence, and their Israeli police escorts, as an infringement on the decades-long accord to maintain Muslim authority inside the compound.

Moreover for Palestinians, the use of live-fire in and around the Noble Sanctuary is viewed as an escalation and a reminder of former Prime Minster Ariel Sharon’s visit in 2000 that sparked the second Intifada. While Sharon did not pray at the site, he arrived with a team of Israeli police. The following day clashes broke out and seven were killed by live fire, thus initiating the Palestinian uprising.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced on Tuesday he would relax the use of live fire in Jerusalem, to permit sniper-fire. His orders spurred calls for Palestinian demonstrations against Israeli police firing dispersants into the mosque during clashes.

“We will use all necessary measures to fight against those who throw stones, firebombs, pipebombs and fireworks in order to attack civilians and police,” Netanyahu said Tuesday after a meeting with security officials. Increased punitive fines for minors who throw stones, and for their parents, are other enforcement measures, the prime minister’s office stated.

The Israeli human rights group B’Tselem reports that 20 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces with live fire since the beginning of the year. Three were killed while throwing stones in the occupied West Bank in instances where the soldiers were not under lethal threat and fired shots as a crowd control mechanism, B’Tselem said. 

Allison Deger
About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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88 Responses

  1. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    September 19, 2015, 12:42 pm

    Gold said: “If you start spreading rumors that Israel wants to fundamentally change the status quo or make Jerusalem like Hebron [you] therefore put fear in the hearts of many Muslims,”

    That’s not exactly a denial, is it?

    • italian ex-pat
      italian ex-pat
      September 19, 2015, 6:09 pm

      @ ABC

      What does he mean, spreading rumors? I think the facts speak for themselves. If the number of Jewish visitors has increased by 92% in just a few years – with more than a few making their agenda clear – I’d say that’s more than just ‘rumors’.

      Amazing how after nearly 50 years of respecting the Muslims’ rights in the compound, more and more right-wing Jewish Israelis are now feeling the compelling need to pray in the area not allowed to them. Perhaps, as a near-atheist, I’m not the best qualified to judge on matters of faith, but such sudden religious fervor looks awfully suspicious. I’m more inclined to see it as a deliberate provocation.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      September 19, 2015, 8:36 pm

      No, it’s not a denial and it’s a shameless admission of the Zionist rape of al Khalil (aka ‘Hebron’), up to now always covered by some flimsy fig leaf.

  2. Henry Norr
    Henry Norr
    September 19, 2015, 1:01 pm

    >>While Sharon did not pray at the site, he arrived with a team of Israeli police. The following day clashes broke out …. thus initiating the Palestinian uprising[in 2000]

    I’m not sure “team” is quite the word: As the NYT put it at the time, . “Sharon entered as a police helicopter clattered overheard and a thousand armed policemen were positioned in and around the Temple Mount, including antiterror squads and ranks of riot officers carrying clubs, helmets and plastic shields. “

  3. John O
    John O
    September 19, 2015, 1:09 pm

    The march of folly continues.

  4. just
    just
    September 19, 2015, 1:40 pm

    This is not OK.

    C’mon King Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein!!! Do your JOB.

    Scrub Israel off your BFF list. They are nobody’s ‘friend’.

    (hell’s bells~ brought to you by the Violent Occupiers and their vile supporters)

    (Barkat, Gold, and Netanyahu et al can still GTH.)

  5. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    September 19, 2015, 1:46 pm

    The liberty to practise one’s religion or express atheism does not imply the liberty to take over (permanently or at will) the sites in established use of religious groups not one’s own and to conduct one’s own rites or prayers or declamations there. On the contrary, it implies stable possession, regardless of how popular or powerful one’s own group is, of places of worship and debate. Anything else creates fear that enforced change in the patterns of religious life may be on the way.

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      September 19, 2015, 7:51 pm

      It is as clear as daylight that Israel is imposing its religion on another people in violation of Human Rights law….they are fooling no-one and it is high time Israel was given an ultimatum by America…they hold the biggest gun at Israel’s head…..AID.

  6. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    September 19, 2015, 1:52 pm

    This is more fallout from the Gaza war. They saw how much they were allowed to get away with and so they are ratcheting up the crazy. They’re not going to stop until they get smacked down.

  7. talknic
    talknic
    September 19, 2015, 2:17 pm

    “Their strategic aim is to prevent religious freedom—when I say religious freedom I mean even the right of Jews to visit quietly,” Barkat said.

    Visit what? A mosque? Why?

    • a blah chick
      a blah chick
      September 19, 2015, 3:47 pm

      Because, talknic, if there is one square meter of precious Ersatz Israel he can’t plant his tuchus on then the terrorists have won.

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      September 19, 2015, 4:30 pm

      Ha Ha. Barkat made a funny.

      Because if there’s one thing Jewish-Israelis are known for it’s visiting shared Muslim holy sites “quietly.” Just ask Baruch Goldstein.

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 19, 2015, 11:04 pm

        or the ancient church that settlers burned recently

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      September 19, 2015, 11:07 pm

      To nonbelievers, those who do possess belief are incomprehensible. In fact the desire to visit the spot where the Temple was located is not so incomprehensible to those who have open minds.

      Actually if this was not occupied territory, there would be nothing “wrong” with Jews entering and muttering prayers. But it is occupied territory and therefore other rules must apply, but those who go, “why do you want to visit there? what’s it to you?” are just indulging their own disbelief and lack of connection or empathy to the Jewish tradition.

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 20, 2015, 9:17 am

        why would a jew visit a mosque???
        I know ..i know ..i know….temple….temple …temple

        but that was in the past (allegedly) now there is a mosque..then why go??? to provoke i guess.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 20, 2015, 10:02 am

        I agree with Yonah on this. The world is full of sites that are sacred to more than one tradition. The Temple Mount Faithful are troublemakers but they work within a tradition that venerates the Temple Mount as the holiest spot on earth. It has nothing to with mosques. If there was a church there or absolutely nothing there the Dome of the Rock would still be the site associated with Judaism’s origins.

        I visited the Dome of the Rock, in part to see the beauty of the mosque but also to see the rock that Judaism venerates as the site where the biblical Isaac was almost sacrificed. You don’t often get to see a physical feature that appears in your community’s ancient texts. Whether or not you are “a believer”, a site can be sacred because of your community’s tradition.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        September 20, 2015, 10:03 am

        Right Yonah.
        For that moment in a Jewish life…when nothing but a Mosque will do.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        September 20, 2015, 11:32 am

        Sacred, schmacred! Why don’t the Zionist first get the hell out of there with their illegal immigrants and armed administration, then come back as private individual tourists? Sacred maybe, but it’s in Palestine.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 20, 2015, 1:07 pm

        “To nonbelievers, those who do possess belief are incomprehensible”

        Yonah, your hypocritical claims of, even your real possession of “belief”, doesn’t excuse anything. And it doesn’t entitle you to anything.
        And you know what, “Yonah” we can be as “incomprehensible” as we want, nobody cares about that. It’s when you start hurting people or taking things from people that your faith becomes suspect.
        Why you would want to pimp the Jewish religion as an excuse for base desires (like, you know, acquisition of land and power. Even unbelievers like those things, and they are quite “comprehensible”)
        is “incomprehensible” to me, but I suppose you find the only use for it you can.

        And “Yonah” you really have no idea what this whole “occupied territory” thing is about, do you?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 20, 2015, 1:26 pm

        I visited the Dome of the Rock, in part to see the beauty of the mosque but also to see the rock that Judaism venerates as the site where the biblical Isaac was almost sacrificed. You don’t often get to see a physical feature that appears in your community’s ancient texts. Whether or not you are “a believer”, a site can be sacred because of your community’s tradition.”

        Breathtaking entitlement. Just breathtaking.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        September 20, 2015, 3:49 pm

        @Elliot

        If I was having a discussion with a Jewish person who has not participated in the violence perpetrated by Israel, I too could agree with yonah. Otherwise his point misses the mark totally.

        I would not hesitate to ask those questions of someone who has partake in these incidents. Please tell me about your wonderful religious beliefs which venerate an object and retains it’s religious significance when it’s attacked and cleared with hand grenades. Please talk to me about your religious rights which are predicated upon denying the religious rights of others. Not only with the threat of violence but literally with hand grenades, gas and bullets.

        Scum.

        Yonah pleads and whines about empathy for those who not only give none but actively deny the most basic of human rights to those not part of his select group.

        Risible. They deserve no more than they give, which is none. No respect. No empathy. No sympathy. They are common thugs and criminals.

      • talknic
        talknic
        September 20, 2015, 11:40 pm

        @ yonah fredman “To nonbelievers, those who do possess belief are incomprehensible”

        As a previous believer, self examination and knowledge gained outside of the narrow bounds of my indoctrination showed me that my indoctrination into belief was made up sh*te to try to explain the previously inexplicable and justify a tribalism that wasn’t really necessary in the modern world. It’s quite easy to have empathy for and understand why some folk still believe the fairytale.

        People who, after being shown facts and who continue to use the fairytales and make up new ones to justify their barbarity, dominance of another people and weirdly their disregard for the basic tenets of Judaism defies logic and aren’t deserving of any empathy

        ” In fact the desire to visit the spot where the Temple was located is not so incomprehensible to those who have open minds”

        Tough, it ain’t in Israel.

        “Actually if this was not occupied territory, there would be nothing “wrong” with Jews entering and muttering prayers. But it is occupied territory and therefore other rules must apply”

        Jews are not the Occupying Power. Israel is the Occupying Power. It’s Israeli civilians incl non-Jewish Israeli civilians who’re prohibited from being in territories occupied by Israel.

        “.. those who go, “why do you want to visit there? what’s it to you?” are just indulging their own disbelief and lack of connection or empathy to the Jewish tradition.”

        It’s a Jewish tradition to want to be in breach of GCIV? AMAZING!!!! You should be lobbying the Israeli Government to end the occupation

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        September 21, 2015, 1:12 am

        talknic- You are thus a convert holier than the pope, or in your case the anti convert unholier than the anti pope. like red diaper baby David Horowitz, whom i would not trust on leftist politics, thus i do not trust you to write a level headed sane word on the jewish religion.

      • talknic
        talknic
        September 21, 2015, 7:29 am

        @ yonah fredman “talknic- You are thus a convert holier than the pope, or in your case the anti convert unholier than the anti pope. like red diaper baby David Horowitz …. “

        Drivel. Cute, but still drivel

        “… whom i would not trust on leftist politics, thus i do not trust you to write a level headed sane word on the jewish religion”

        A) Fine have it your way. I believe in International Law, the UN Charter and the basic common sense tenets of Judaism, if that’s leftist politics then those on the right I gather don’t believe in the law or Judaism’s most basic tenets.

        B) Of course you don’t. I oppose Israeli expansionism into other folks territory in breach of International Law, the UN Charter, GC IV and the basic common sense tenets of Judaism.

      • Froggy
        Froggy
        September 21, 2015, 8:08 am

        That smacks of idolatry.

        According to my mother’s Jewish friend, we Catholics worship statues. Yet it is fine for Jews to worship walls and rocks.

        If you guys need a few saints, we’ll let you have some of ours. ;)

      • dgfincham
        dgfincham
        September 21, 2015, 1:18 pm

        Froggy: “Yet it is fine for Jews to worship walls and rocks.” That is a bit unfair. They are not worshiping the walls and rocks. They like to worship God in places and buildings that have historical associations with their religion or have historically been consecrated for such worship. So do Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox Christians. So do Muslims.

        The real idolatry in Zionaism is the worship of the Land of Israel. One Zionist told me that “the Land of Israel plays the same role in Judaism as does Jesus Christ in Christianity.”

      • Froggy
        Froggy
        September 22, 2015, 6:23 am

        David Gerald Fincham : “They like to worship God in places and buildings that have historical associations with their religion or have historically been consecrated for such worship.”

        Then praying at Al-Aqsa Mosque isn’t really part of the Jewish religion, but individual preference.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 21, 2015, 8:18 am

        @ Mooser:
        Hi there! Would you kindly explain why it’s an act of privilege and entitlement for someone to visit the shrine of another religion. This visitor obeyed the rules, dressed appropriately, removed his shoes on entering the mosque, was respectful of the worshippers and left the place no worse than it was before.
        What’s the problem?

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 21, 2015, 8:30 am

        @ Old Geezer,
        So, if Yonah – or any likeminded Jews – say anything about any Jewish feeling for any place in Palestine, they are fair game.
        I think it’s smarter to keep Jewish feeling out of the ethical debate. I have a feeling of affinity for the Temple as a Jew. And I vehemently oppose the Third Temple nutsos and their notsonutso backers in the Israeli government and military.
        Sounds like Yonah feels the same way.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        September 21, 2015, 9:54 am

        @Elliot

        No I did not say that. I will clarify later when time permits.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 21, 2015, 5:40 pm

        “Sounds like Yonah feels the same way.”

        Well “Yonah” went and helped occupy the place for a couple of years.
        And if you aren’t ashamed to show your face at the place, that’s your problem, Elliot.

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 21, 2015, 6:26 pm

        Elliot

        “Hi there! Would you kindly explain why it’s an act of privilege and entitlement for someone to visit the shrine of another religion. This visitor obeyed the rules, dressed appropriately, removed his shoes on entering the mosque, was respectful of the worshippers and left the place no worse than it was before.
        What’s the problem?”

        Because they are occupiers!!!
        I am shocked you even ask that questions!!!
        If they want to visit without the Israeli police (just like 4 million tourist) they are welcomed.

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 21, 2015, 6:42 pm

        For those who want to know which kind of people the palestinians refuses to allow in their mosques.

        Temple mount and land of israel faithful movement

        in their website in the policy statement section they say:

        “The Land of Israel (biblical borders) was given specifically to the people of Israel and to no other nation (Exodus 23:31). Israel is not permitted to give any of this land to any group for any purpose since the land is a grant to Israel from G‑d Himself. Any division of the Land and the giving of it to another people represents a breach of the Covenant with G‑d (Leviticus 25:23-24; Ezekiel 48:14).”

        http://www.templemountfaithful.org/policy.php

        Can anybody guess what they mean by biblical borders…

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 21, 2015, 8:20 pm

        @Zaid – I was talking about myself, and, I think, Yonah, too.
        Like everyone else I had to pass thru an IsraelI police checkpoint and metal detector. Once I was past that, I didn’t see any security.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        September 21, 2015, 9:13 pm

        Eliot,

        As already very clearly written by Talknic and others, any presence on occupied territory of civilians belonging to the occupying power is a serious violation of the 4th Geneva Convention concerning mainly war crimes. I’m no lawyer and it looks like a war crime to me but Hostage, our specialist in international law and war rules, should know better.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        September 22, 2015, 3:48 am

        If I were creating a religion from scratch, I’m not sure I would consecrate one spot on Earth as a holy spot, but I was born into Judaism, I didn’t invent it.

        Included in Judaism is the idea of one holy spot and that is the spot of the Temple, with its myth of the near sacrifice of Isaac by Abraham on that spot and as the focus of Jewish religious sovereignty for short bursts of a few centuries before the Babylonian exile and a few centuries before the Roman exile (from Jerusalem rather than from the land in its entirety, the exile I mean).

        I was raised to pray three times a day and although if one were on a ship one can face any which way and direct one’s heart towards god, (aka God, aka G-d, aka Hashem, never aka Yahweh, the unpronounceable name, unless one is quoting Harold Bloom). But as a rule I prayed towards Jerusalem and in Jerusalem I prayed in the direction of the temple and that’s how I was raised. Praying towards God is an intensely private experience for some people and I accept that talking about it in a public (and shark strewn) domain like this one cheapens the experience, but nevertheless, for someone to say, why would you want to visit a mosque, when you’re talking about Har Habayit is a type of insensitivity and if you show similar insensitivity to Mecca for Muslims then you are allowed to be insensitive towards all religions and I accept that for our limited numbers we followers of the Judaic religion have made too much noise in the world particularly recently with the advent of Ben Gurion, but nonetheless the type of statement, why do they want to even go there, it’s a mosque, betrays the basic ignorance towards Middle Eastern religions that is common here.

        In fact the Kotel (aka the Kosel, the Western Wall or the Wailing Wall) is also in occupied territory and I pray there. I have visited the Haram al Sharif, including once when I was not allowed in to visit because some Palestinian bureaucrat decided to exercise his bureaucratic prerogative to not allow me in. But previous to that unpleasant occasion I visited: I took off my shoes and visited both mosques and indeed the silver domed mosque is a beauty (recently the silver has been covered with black, recently as in the last 35 years or so) and the golden domed mosque was nice to see too and the temple mount is large enough that if people were in a loving mood there would be room for more than one mode of worship to the one god of abraham on that large spot known as the Temple Mount. but that is not the situation today and I accept that as occupied people the Palestinians are in no mood to be dictated to by the occupying army and I accept that regarding the Mount it is wisest and in this case I mean the wisdom that requires fewer guns and batons and bullets, it is wisest to limit the entrance of Jews who are intent on making trouble.

        And I accept that the urge to pray on that spot can be intense, but I accept the limits that international law and common sense and wisdom place on a people if they are interested in peace and those who are interested in war rather than peace are contrary to my thoughts and I oppose them. But I would never say, why do you want to pray at a mosque? I think that’s just plain stupid, know nothing, sitting in your secular bubble and not accepting that there are other emotions in play. Emotions should not rule and must not rule, but when you find your heart so small that all you can say about the urge to pray is mockery, then if you were yourself interested in peace rather than in propaganda and rhetoric of mockery, you would know to shut up.

      • ziusudra
        ziusudra
        September 22, 2015, 4:24 am

        Greetings oldgeezer,
        I thank you for your thoughts.
        ziusudra

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 22, 2015, 10:36 am

        “So, if Yonah – or any likeminded Jews – say anything about any Jewish feeling for any place in Palestine, they are fair game.”

        Yes, you bet they are. They are pretty much like a guy professing love, and the actions of love, towards a woman he has chained in the basement.
        And somehow, all that authentic religious feeling adds up to us Jews getting something, being entitled to something?
        Just a tip, Elliot, it’s much easier to convince people of religious fervor when it adds up to sacrifice and charity. When it adds up to gain or entitlement, people turn agnostic real fast.
        If the land is so freakin “Holy”, why do we continually profane it with violence hate and theft?

    • dgfincham
      dgfincham
      September 20, 2015, 9:59 am

      From Mark Twain’s Innocents Abroad (my emphasis):

      “Every where about the Mosque of Omar are portions of pillars, curiously wrought altars, and fragments of elegantly carved marble–precious remains of Solomon’s Temple. These have been dug from all depths in the soil and rubbish of Mount Moriah, and the Moslems have always shown a disposition to preserve them with the utmost care.. The designs wrought upon these fragments are all quaint and peculiar, and so the charm of novelty is added to the deep interest they naturally inspire. One meets with these venerable scraps at every turn, especially in the neighboring Mosque el Aksa, into whose inner walls a very large number of them are carefully built for preservation.

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 20, 2015, 12:40 pm

        Belive it or not Mark Twain is not an archaeologist.

        nothing of the jewish temple remained . not a single coloumn.
        when the muslim came to the place they saw nothing and they built the mosques from scratch.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 20, 2015, 1:11 pm

        “From Mark Twain’s Innocents Abroad (my emphasis):”

        Now I know what the sound of somebody’s credibility being flushed down the toilet sounds like. Mark Twain’s “Innocents Abroad”? Really?

  8. CWasten
    CWasten
    September 19, 2015, 3:18 pm

    Why doesn’t Israel build, or allow the Arabs to build another entrance? The existing one seems like it was meant to cause trouble from the gitgo.

  9. Kay24
    Kay24
    September 19, 2015, 5:37 pm

    “J’lem mayor warns Palestinians in holy site clashes: ‘if they use violence we will hunt them”

    Really Mayor? Then how come you guys cannot “hunt” down your own terrorists, and deal with them?

    As for the other Arab nations, shame on them for tolerating this violence, and the desecration of their Holy Mosque, by these racist zionists. What are they waiting for? Afraid to incur the wrath of the US? Sheesh.

    • zaid
      zaid
      September 19, 2015, 11:13 pm

      one day , i don know when, this mosque will be the spark that will bring freedom to palestine.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        September 20, 2015, 10:07 am

        Maybe when the Pope visits.

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 20, 2015, 12:23 pm

        The pope already visited the place, and he was welcomed and received the best of palestinian hospitality.

        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-27571615

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 20, 2015, 12:28 pm

        and i might add as a palestinian and half jerusalemite i have absolutey no problem if christians want to pray in al aqsa mosque

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        September 20, 2015, 2:28 pm

        Zaid, I agree. There is nothing wrong in anyone visiting/praying in Mosques, but when they storm it with weapons, attack the worshippers, and show disrespect, it is unacceptable.

    • zaid
      zaid
      September 20, 2015, 3:49 pm

      of cource Kay

      and i add:

      No settlers
      No israeli police
      No jewish visits until palestine is free

      • Jon66
        Jon66
        September 20, 2015, 4:22 pm

        Zaid,

        Did you mean no Jewish Israeli visits or no Jewish visitors at all?

      • zaid
        zaid
        September 20, 2015, 9:54 pm

        No Zionist Visit

        If Naturicarta (not sure of the name) wants to visit and even pray then no problem.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 21, 2015, 2:07 pm

        Zaid, Thanks for clarifying that the issue for you is political, not religious.
        FYI, the Israeli police don’t allow any individual Jews to pray on the Temple Mount. They certainly would not allow visibly recognizable Jews like Neturei Karta to pray there. NK don’t want to go on to the Temple Mount anyway on account of its sacred status. It is taboo until the Messiah comes. It’s a pity the Jewish religious-nationalists did away with that taboo.

        I imagine the pope prays wherever he goes. Do Christians, in general, have any feelings about the Haram el-Sharif?

  10. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    September 19, 2015, 6:56 pm

    RE: “In recent years the number of right-wing Israelis entering through the tourist gate have sharply increased. Israeli police reported at the beginning of the year Jewish visitors are up 92 percent from 2009. Palestinians see their presence, and their Israeli police escorts, as an infringement on the decades-long accord to maintain Muslim authority inside the compound.” ~ Deger

    MY COMMENT: That’s why I support making Jerusalem an ‘international city’ pursuant to General Assembly resolution 181 (II) November 29, 1947, which provides for the full territorial internationalisation of Jerusalem: “The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations.”
    Netanyahu recently made it clear that as far as he is concerned there will never be a sovereign nation-state of Palestine in the West Bank (with, or without, E. Jerusalem as its capital). Consequently, unless Jerusalem is protected by virtue of its being made an ‘international city’ administered by the UN, it is just a matter of time before the Dome of the Rock, the Al-Aqsa mosque and numerous other historic sites come under existential threat as Israel’s radical, extremist nationalists (like Yehuda Glick and Moshe Feiglin of the Temple Institute) become more and more determined to completely “Judaize” the city.

    • JLewisDickerson
      JLewisDickerson
      September 19, 2015, 6:57 pm

      P.S. ALSO SEE: “Why rebuilding the Temple would be the end of Judaism as we know it”, By Tomer Persico, Haaretz.com, Nov. 13, 2014
      • The current drive of Jews, both Orthodox and secular, to ascend to the site of the Holy Temple and rebuild it, reflects a sea change in the Zionist camp.

      [EXCERPTS] There is one overriding question that accompanies the Zionist project, wrote Gershom Scholem, the scholar of Jewish mysticism – “Whether or not Jewish history will be able to endure this entry into the concrete realm without perishing in the crisis of the messianic claim, which has virtually been conjured up.” The entry into history to which Scholem refers is the establishment of the state and the ingathering of the exiles, borne, as they were – notwithstanding their secular fomenters and activists – on the wings of the ancient Jewish messianic myth of the return to Zion. However, when Scholem published the essay “Toward an Understanding of the Messianic Idea in Judaism,” in 1971, the adjunct to the question was the dramatic freight of Israel’s great victory in the Six-Day War, four years earlier. . .

      . . . It is not surprising, then, that the first group advocating a change in the Temple Mount status quo did not spring from the ranks of the religious-Zionist movement. The Temple Mount Faithful, a group that has been active since the end of the 1960s, was led by Gershon Salomon, a secular individual, who was supported – how could it be otherwise? – by former members of the Irgun and Lehi. It was not until the mid-1980s that a similar organization was formed under the leadership of a religious-Zionist rabbi (the Temple Institute, founded by Rabbi Yisrael Ariel) – and it too remained solitary within the religious-Zionist movement until the 1990s.

      Indeed, in January 1991, Rabbi Menachem Froman could still allay the fears of the Palestinians by informing them (in the form of an article he published in Haaretz, “To Wait in Silence for Grace”) that, “In the perception of the national-religious public [… there is] opposition to any ascent to the walls of the Temple Mount… The attitude of sanctity toward the Temple Mount is expressed not by bursting into it but by abstinence from it.”

      No longer. If in the past, yearning for the Temple Mount was the preserve of a marginal, ostracized minority within the religious-Zionist public, today it has become one of the most significant voices within that movement. In a survey conducted this past May among the religious-Zionist public, 75.4 percent said they favor “the ascent of Jews to the Temple Mount,” compared to only 24.6 percent against. In addition, 19.6 percent said they had already visited the site and 35.7 percent that they had not yet gone there, but intended to visit.

      The growing number of visits to the mount by the religious-Zionist public signifies not only a turning away from the state-oriented approach of Rabbi Kook, but also active rebellion against the tradition of the halakha. We are witnessing a tremendous transformation among sections of this public: Before our eyes they are becoming post-Kook-ist and post-Orthodox. Ethnic nationalism is supplanting not only mamlakhtiyut (state consciousness) but faithfulness to the halakha. Their identity is now based more on mythic ethnocentrism than on Torah study, and the Temple Mount serves them, just as it served Yair Stern and Uri Zvi Grinberg before them, as an exalted totem embodying the essence of sovereignty over the Land of Israel.

      Thus, in the survey, the group identifying with “classic religious Zionism” was asked, “What are the reasons on which to base oneself when it comes to Jews going up to the Temple Mount?” Fully 96.8 percent replied that visiting the site would constitute “a contribution to strengthening Israeli sovereignty in the holy place.” Only 54.4 percent averred that a visit should be made in order to carry out “a positive commandment [mitzvat aseh] and prayer at the site.” Patently, for the religious Zionists who took part in the survey, the national rationale was far more important than the halakhic grounds – and who better than Naftali Bennett, the leader of Habayit Hayehudi party, serves as a salient model for the shift of the center of gravity of the religious-Zionist movement from halakha to nationalism?

      How did the religious-Zionist public undergo such a radical transformation in its character? A hint is discernible at the point when the first significant halakhic ruling was issued allowing visits to the Temple Mount. This occurred at the beginning of 1996, when the Yesha (Judea, Samaria, Gaza) Rabbinical Council published an official letter containing a ruling that visiting the Temple Mount was permissible, accompanied by a call to every rabbi “to go up [to the site] himself and guide his congregation on how to make the ascent according to all the restrictions of the halakha.”

      Motti Inbari, in his book “Jewish Fundamentalism and the Temple Mount” (SUNY Press, 2009), draws a connection between the weakening of the Gush Emunim messianic paradigm, which was profoundly challenged by the Oslo process between Israel and the Palestinians, and the surge of interest in the mount. According to a widely accepted research model, disappointment stemming from difficulties on the road toward the realization of the messianic vision leads not to disillusionment but to radicalization of belief, within the framework of which an attempt is made to foist the redemptive thrust on recalcitrant reality.

      However, the final, crushing blow to the Kook-based messianic approach was probably delivered by the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, in 2005, and the destruction of the Gush Katif settlements there. The Gush Emunin narrative, which talks about unbroken redemption and the impossibility of retreat, encountered an existential crisis, as did the perception of the secular state as “the Messiah’s donkey,” a reference to the parable about the manner in which the Messiah will make his appearance, meaning that full progress toward redemption can be made on the state’s secular, material back.

      In a symposium held about a year ago by Ir Amim, an NGO that focuses on Jerusalem within the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Haviva Pedaya, from the Jewish history department of Ben-Gurion University in Be’er Sheva, referred to the increasing occupation with the Temple Mount by the religious-Zionist movement after the Gaza pull-out.

      “For those who endured it, the disengagement was a type of sundering from the substantial, from some sort of point of connection,” she said. “For the expelled, it was a breaking point that created a rift between the illusion that the substantial – the land – would be compatible with the symbolic – the state, redemption.” With that connection shattered, Pedaya explains, messianic hope is shifted to an alternative symbolic focal point. The Temple Mount replaces settlement on the soil of the Land of Israel as the key to redemption.

      Many religious Zionists are thus turning toward the mount in place of the belief in step-by-step progress and in place of the conception of the sanctity of the state. The Temple Mount advocates are already now positing the final goal, and by visiting the site and praying there they are deviating from both the halakhic tradition and from Israeli law. State consciousness is abandoned, along with the patience needed for graduated progress toward redemption. In their place come partisan messianism and irreverent efforts to hasten the messianic era – for apocalypse now.

      And they are not alone. Just as was the case in the pre-state period, secular Jews are again joining, and in some cases leading, the movement toward the Temple Mount. Almost half of Likud’s MKs, some of them secular, are active in promoting Jewish visits there. MK Miri Regev, who chairs the Knesset’s Interior and Environment Committee, has already convened 15 meetings of the committee to deliberate on the subject. According to MK Gila Gamliel, “The Temple is the ID card of the people of Israel,” while MK Yariv Levin likens the site to the “heart” of the nation. Manifestly, the division is not between “secular” and “religious,” and the question was never about observing or not observing commandments. The question is an attempt to realize the myth in reality.

      Assuaging Ben-Gurion’s concerns, Israel remained without the Temple Mount at the end of the War of Independence in 1948. Not until the capture of East Jerusalem in 1967 did it become feasible to implement the call of Avraham Stern, and the ancient myth began to sprout within the collective unconscious. After almost 50 years of gestation, Israel is today closer than it has ever been to attempting to renew in practice its mythic past, to bring about by force what many see as redemption. Even if we ignore the fact that the top of the Temple Mount is, simply, currently not available – it must be clear that moving toward a new Temple means the end of both Judaism and Zionism as we know them.

      The question, then, to paraphrase Gershom Scholem’s remark, with which we began, is whether Zionism will be able to withstand the impulse to realize itself conclusively and become history.

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.626327

  11. just
    just
    September 20, 2015, 10:48 am

    “Jordan’s Abdullah: Al-Aqsa Is Open for Muslims Only, Can’t Be Shared

    In meeting with Israeli Arab lawmakers, Jordan’s king asks if Netanyahu is trying to escalate the situation in Jerusalem.

    Jordan’s King Abdullah said on Sunday that Al-Aqsa Mosque is open for Muslims only and cannot be shared.

    “I’ll say once and for all, there is no partnership, no division, Al-Aqsa is a Muslim place of worship,” Abdullah told Israeli Arab lawmakers.
    During the meeting with members of the Joint List, which took place in Amman and focused primarily on the recent rising tensions in Jerusalem, Abdullah asked the MKs rhetorically, “What does Netanyahu want with these actions? To cause a breakdown?”

    The king noted that he is following the situation in Jerusalem closely, and said that they will be the main focus of an upcoming meeting at the United Nations General Assembly between himself, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah al-Sissi.

    The delegation of Joint List MKs that met with the king will continue on to Istanbul, where they will meet with Turkish President Recep Tayyep Erdogan.

    Haaretz learned that the mission rose out of a meeting last Thursday between members of the list’s Al-Quds Committee and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to discuss the recent violence in Jerusalem…

    MK Ahmad Tibi, who heads the Joint List’s Al Quds Council group told Haaretz that Jordanian king’s involvement is necessary in his capacity as the protector of the holy sites in Jerusalem. Tibi also noted that Turkey has an important standing in the Muslim world.

    Last week, King Abdullah spoke with U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and asked the American administration to state a clear position on the recurring violence in Jerusalem’s Old City and the Temple Mount.
    The King also asked Biden to act against “the ongoing Israeli policies at the Al-Aqsa Mosque and end the aggression.” Biden expressed concern over the violence on the Temple Mount and the escalating tensions.

    Earlier, Abdallah issued a harsh warning statement regarding the recent events in Jerusalem, noting that “further provocation in the city will affect relations between Jordan and Israel, and we’ll be forced, unfortunately, to take action.””

    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.676851?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    What “action”???

  12. just
    just
    September 20, 2015, 11:16 am

    It happened in Bethlehem.

    “9 PA officers receive disciplinary action for excessive use of force

    RAMALLAH (Ma’an) — The commander of the Palestinian Authority’s security forces on Sunday announced disciplinary action against nine security officers, including five high-ranking officers, who were involved in an attack on Palestinian civilians during a protest on Friday.

    Nidal Abu Dukhan said disciplinary action had been decided on after a fact-finding mission submitted its report on the incident to his office.

    The attack in question was caught on camera by online news site Middle East Eye, revealing a large group of PA security officers violently attacking three teenage boys with clubs. …

    … Abu Dukhan said in a statement that as an outcome of the investigations, Col. Issam Nabhan, deputy commander of Bethlehem district, Lt. Col. Shahir al-Qaisi, deputy director of operations, Maj. Mahmoud Abu Mues commander of the sixth brigade, and Capt.Samih Yousif were all placed into provisional retirement.

    Five other lower ranking officers have been sent to disciplinary jail for three months and have been forbidden promotion for one year. …

    … Adnan Dmeiri, chief spokesman for the PA’s security forces, acknowledged that PA officers often seek to prevent Palestinians from approaching Israeli-controlled “seam zones” in the occupied West Bank, but did not elaborate on further security coordination.

    He told Ma’an that the teenager who was violently beaten on Friday would receive justice, noting that in 2014, PA officers were punished with imprisonment and disciplinary service after they were found guilty of violence against Palestinian citizens.

    The Palestinian Independent Commission for Human Rights (ICHR) confirmed that “excessive force” had been used against protesters Friday.

    “It was an evident use of excessive force against a peaceful gathering during which participants were attacked with stun grenades and rods,” director of the group’s office in the southern West Bank Farid al-Atrash told Ma’an.

    He urged the PA to investigate the attacks and is currently collecting complaints from those who were attacked during the rally.

    “As a Palestinian, I say that the president should immediately apologize to our people in the Azza Refugee Camp and should give orders to call to account those who gave the orders.”

    “This shameful farce must be stopped,” added al-Atrash.”

    more and video @ http://www.maannews.com/Content.aspx?id=767726

    International protection must be given to Palestinians. It’s sad, shameful, and criminal that they must be protected from their violent Occupiers and those that collaborate with them, too.

  13. mcohen.
    mcohen.
    September 20, 2015, 5:34 pm

    Unfortunately events are coming to a head this week.

  14. Dex
    Dex
    September 21, 2015, 12:59 pm

    Sorry for the off-topic comment all, but is there a way to view my past comments on this site. I once posted something a while back and would like to revisit the comment.

    Thanks.

  15. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    September 21, 2015, 3:10 pm

    Eliot said: “Do Christians, in general, have any feelings about the Haram el-Sharif?”

    I don’t but my parents have expressed a wish to visit and walk where Jesus walked. But they are put off by the potential unrest. And they don’t have the money.

    • John O
      John O
      September 22, 2015, 3:08 am

      The parents of a friend of mine visited the Holy Land (as they saw it) about 20 years ago. They returned full of admiration for the Palestinians and full of contempt for the Israelis they met.

  16. jon s
    jon s
    September 22, 2015, 7:16 am

    A blah chick, you can reassure your parents that the country is relatively safe and peaceful. Millions of tourists and pilgrims make the trip.
    Can’t help you regarding the money, though…

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      September 22, 2015, 9:59 am

      “Can’t help you regarding the money, though…”

      That wasn’t a problem for you, was it? You got a great deal on your stolen land and houses in the hysterical homeland. Everybody else has to pay.

    • John O
      John O
      September 22, 2015, 12:18 pm

      “Millions of tourists and pilgrims make the trip.”

      As I said in my earlier post, “The parents of a friend of mine visited the Holy Land (as they saw it) about 20 years ago. They returned full of admiration for the Palestinians and full of contempt for the Israelis they met.”

      Although my example is anecdotal, you can be pretty sure a good percentage of those tourists and pilgrims come home with similar perceptions.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      September 22, 2015, 2:35 pm

      Oh yeah, the Zionist entity is the safest place. Especially if you happen to be Black it is is even safer, only slightly less safe for them than going to old South Africa or the Lynching South.

      • jon s
        jon s
        September 24, 2015, 1:49 pm

        echinococcus ,
        I didn’t say “safest”, I said “relatively safe…”
        Unfortunately, no place in the world is totally , 100% , danger-free.
        In the USA you’re more likely to be a victim of violence than in Israel.

        Oh, and “Zionist entity”. Nice touch. Denial-of-reality mode.

      • annie
        annie
        September 24, 2015, 2:05 pm

        In the USA you’re more likely to be a victim of violence than in Israel.

        the focus of the article is jerusalem. echin’s comment referenced the safeness of “the Zionist entity” which obviously references the other 1/2 of the population and all the area controlled by that entity. so seriously, in that context, what on earth relevance does safety or violence “in Israel” make? do you mean how nice they can be if they want to where they want to but only practice in limited a area? are you trying to pretend the other law and order, the military rule of millions, is not relevant to zionism. and can you also assert ‘In the USA you’re more likely to be a victim of violence than in Jerusalem’ ?

      • eljay
        eljay
        September 24, 2015, 2:53 pm

        || jon s: … I didn’t say “safest”, I said “relatively safe…” … ||

        I’ll never understand how a place can be both “relatively safe” and perpetually on the verge of being wiped off the map and pushed into the sea by Iran, nukes, Hamas, rockets, Aye-rabs, Mooslims, BDS and “threatening demographics”.

        “Look, I know that my car is a death-trap that could break down or blow up at any moment and severely maim you or even kill you. But it’s ‘relatively safe’. Hop in!”

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 24, 2015, 4:44 pm

        Annie, eljay, I been tryin’ to tell you; “Jon s” is an American, his frames of reference are American, and as far as he is concerned, Jerusalem is in an American city in a segregated state which just happens to be the capital of Israel.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 24, 2015, 5:40 pm

        “I didn’t say “safest”, I said “relatively safe…”

        Please understand that “Jon s” never deliberately lies on this blog, not, of course, that he would be caught. It’s a little promise he made himself.

      • Kris
        Kris
        September 26, 2015, 8:25 pm

        @echinococcus: “the Zionist entity…” I appreciate your bringing this up–I’ve been feeling that “Israel” is not the right label for that regime.

        Wikipedia on “the Zionist entity:”

        The term is described as a means of expressing hostility towards Israel,[1] refusing to acknowledge its existence,[1][5][7][9][11][18][19] and denying its legitimacy or right to exist.[2][12][20][21][22][23] Virginia Q. Tilley argues that the term implies condemnation of the idea of a Jewish state, but not necessarily of a Jewish presence.[24] Matthew Gray writes that the term denies Israel the status of a “state”, and emphasizes Israel’s Zionist philosophy. Its use by Arab state media and leaders, even though other terms are equally “politically useful”, “reinforces the state’s anti-Israel posture and the perception of Israel as a sinister threat”.[8] Describing it as “derogatory, indirect language”, Darrell Jodock states its intent is to “deny Israel any place in the family of nations”.[25] Referring to it as a “common epithet”, Eric Sundquist indicates that it “echoed the Arab view, repeated in the core doctrine of the PLO, that Israel was no state at all but an illegal colonialist excrescence”.[16]

        Max Blumenthal coined JSIL–the Jewish State in the Levant– to refer to Israel, since Israel has a lot in common with ISIL, but Israel isn’t about Judaism, it’s about Zionism.

        “The Zionist entity” is elegant in its simplicity and clarity.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        September 26, 2015, 11:26 pm

        Kris,

        There certainly is a need to constantly deny any legitimacy or “right to exist” for this most illegitimate freak of the last century. “an illegal colonialist excrescence” also expresses the concept quite nicely. One important reason not to let them use the term “Israel”, though, is also the importance of the Israel concept among the religious: one thing it definitely does not support is racist nationalism and nation-state.

  17. michelle
    michelle
    September 22, 2015, 10:15 am

    .
    Haram el-Sharif
    to this Christian it sounds like yet another wedge/stumbling block some people put between adam(themselves) and G-d
    .
    G-d Bless
    .

  18. jon s
    jon s
    September 24, 2015, 4:32 pm

    Annie, my comment was a reply to abc’s comment that her parents had expressed a desire to visit ” where Jesus walked”, but were deterred by potential unrest. Tourists and pilgrims regularly visit Christian holy sites in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth, etc. and return to their homes unharmed. Israelis and Palestinians have a common interest in keeping it that way.
    And, yes, you’re more likely to be a victim of violence in the USA.

    • lysias
      lysias
      September 24, 2015, 4:42 pm

      And, yes, you’re more likely to be a victim of violence in the USA.

      Only if you live in certain neighborhoods, which nonaffluent members of minorities may pretty much have to live in, but which most of us can easily avoid.

      • jon s
        jon s
        September 26, 2015, 5:04 pm

        lysias,
        That probably holds true in all countries.

      • lysias
        lysias
        September 26, 2015, 6:58 pm

        Tourists are much less likely to know what neighborhoods to avoid.

    • annie
      annie
      September 24, 2015, 4:56 pm

      Annie, my comment was a reply to abc’s comment

      not the comment of yours i was referencing:

      jon: echinococcus ,
      I didn’t say “safest”, I said “relatively safe…”
      Unfortunately, no place in the world is totally , 100% , danger-free.
      In the USA you’re more likely to be a victim of violence than in Israel.

      and again you say you’re more likely to be a victim of violence in the USA.

      and again i say echin’s comment referenced the safeness of “the Zionist entity” which obviously references the other 1/2 of the population and all the area controlled by that entity. so seriously, in that context, what on earth relevance does safety or violence “in Israel” make?

      you can choose not to respond to his point, but when you say you’re more likely to be a victim of violence in the USA. that would depend on where you are. it’s disingenuous juxtaposing a certain region within the entirety of area ruled by the israel gov vs the entirety of the US. how much violence is in jerusalem once you include all the “security” forces operating in all of the city. and do you include people getting shoved out of their homes or into a back room or tent on the ground and settlers moving in ‘violent’?

      you can’t make a blanket statement like that because, until it’s two states, it’s one apartheid entity with a brutal regime oppressing 1/2 the people. so big deal if the 1/2 not brutalized is ‘safe’. there’s lots of violence there. much much more in jerusalem than vast areas of this country.

      and ones relative safety in this country isn’t just related to where you are, it is also about who you are. like israel, if you’re the wrong race there are places in this country to police will take you down and the white people can be safe.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      September 24, 2015, 5:21 pm

      Slithering, groveling nonsense.
      Black persons were being subjected to a pogrom with participation of several government ministers and future government ministers, with a poll approval rate by 94% or so of the Herrenvolk population, and an official government benediction. Proudly by daylight on TV, under our own eyes, not long ago.
      This in the very safe downtown of the safest city of the f*&^% Zionist entity.
      Also, “Israel” is a biblical word that applies to spiritual matters and a well-defined tribal coalition whose descendants have disappeared into becoming Palestinians. Don’t you dare appropriate that word in the interest of a genocidal political movement.

      • jon s
        jon s
        September 26, 2015, 5:19 pm

        echinococcus,
        Your comments are a superb -and depressing -illustration of what those who seek Israeli-Palestinian peace and reconciliation are up against.
        I referred to your determination to refer to Israel as the “Zionist entity” as denial-of-reality mode. Your reply proves my point.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        September 26, 2015, 5:54 pm

        “our comments are a superb -and depressing -illustration of what those who seek Israeli-Palestinian peace and reconciliation are up against.”

        Wait, let me get this straight, “Jons”. You “seek Israeli-Palestinian peace and reconciliation” by living in an illegal settlement, with a get-out-of-dodge US passport in your pocket?

        Gee, some people might say all you are doing is inflaming the situation, and planning to do a bunk when the Holy Land gets too hot to hold you. People like you will ruin any chance Israel ever had.

        “In Israel there’s a rising tide of racism , xenophobia and anti-democratic tendencies, especially (though not exclusively) among the Orthodox Jews. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/jon-s?keyword=Orthodox#sthash.RAb4gpIZ.dpuf

        There you go, “Jon s” you’ve got your excuse all ready.

      • talknic
        talknic
        September 26, 2015, 5:55 pm

        @ jon s “Your comments are a superb -and depressing -illustration of what those who seek Israeli-Palestinian peace and reconciliation are up against”

        Netanyahu has publicly stated there will be no independent Palestinian state under his watch and Israel has no valid reason or legal right to maintain the occupation, it’s illegal settlements or to demand non-Israeli territory or to demand to be recognized as the Jewish state or to demand a future independent Palestine be disarmed. In fact Israel has never made any genuine offer toward peace.

        I referred to your determination to refer to Israel as the “Zionist entity” as denial-of-reality mode. Your reply proves my point.”

        Strange, it was the Zionist Movement who decided to colonize Palestine in 1897 and the Zionist Movement declared Israel a state.

    • Kris
      Kris
      September 26, 2015, 8:41 pm

      jon s, many Christians who visit Christian holy sites are shaken by what they see of the Zionist entity’s brutality towards the Palestinians. Here’s an excerpt from an article written by a judge in Michigan:

      On this second trip I looked a lot more closely at my surroundings. I came to see the parallels between this land and South Africa and the old Jim Crow South, and the 19th century Indian reservation policy of our government. The Palestinians were a permanent underclass, despised by a substantial percentage of Israelis. They were progressively being driven out of Jerusalem by insidious laws and regulations governing work, travel and residency.

      The hills in the West Bank, the part set aside in 1947 by the United Nations for a State of Palestine, were filling up with modern Jewish apartment complexes, cleverly denominated as “settlements,” suggesting brave frontiersmen. In fact, they were systematically seizing (stealing) the best land, leaving only crowded, isolated Bantustan towns to be occupied by the Palestinians, the remnant of the people who had for many centuries lived everywhere in this land. http://www.wrmea.org/1999-june/a-25th-anniversary-trip-to-israel/palestine-turned-into-a-quest-for-origins-and-solutions-of-the-conflict-there.html

      This was about a trip taken in 1995; things have gone downhill since then.

      • jon s
        jon s
        September 27, 2015, 10:45 am

        talknic,
        You don’t have to convince me that Netanyahu does not sincerely want a two-state solution. That’s one of the reasons I oppose Netanyahu, his policies and his government. I would like to see an end to the occupation and the settlements and support a peaceful two state solution.
        I’ve said so numerous times on this blog.
        Incidentally , the term”illegal settlements” is a redundancy: all the settlements in occupied territory are illegal. (Sort of like the term “legitimate rights”. If they’re rights , they’re legitimate).

      • annie
        annie
        September 27, 2015, 10:55 am

        since not everyone agrees they are illegal it’s important to use the term ‘illegal settlements’ as a constant reminder.

  19. Mooser
    Mooser
    September 27, 2015, 1:02 pm

    “I would like to see an end to the occupation and the settlement”

    Welcome back to the USA, “Jon s”! Try and stay out of jail.

    Or is right about now when we start blabbering about the “histrionic homeland”?

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