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‘Jewish Communal Fund’ seeds Islamophobia as toxic as Trump’s

US Politics
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Donald Trump’s disturbing comments about registering Muslims have put Islamophobia on the front pages. Even Jeb Bush has condemned them. And Jews have been outspoken. Andrew Rosenthal at the New York Times and the Anti-Defamation League have likened the racism to that faced by Jews in an era gone by, and J Street has called out the “bigoted” rhetoric.

Now we learn that one of the main sowers of Islamophobia in the United States, Pamela Geller, has had the support of the Jewish community. “Why is a mainstream Jewish charity funding Pamela Geller?” Eli Clifton asks, and reports in the Forward that Geller has gotten contributions through the Jewish Communal Fund.

Jewish Communal Fund, a mainstream philanthropic fund that describes itself as “dedicated to the welfare and security of the Jewish community at home and abroad,” has funded Geller’s work. JCF’s annual tax filings show contributions of $30,000 in the 2012 tax year and $70,000 in the 2013 tax year, the last tax year for which filings are available, directed to Geller’s AFDI [American Freedom Defense Initiative].

JCF functions as a donor-advised fund, meaning donors to the fund deposit money and receive an immediate federal income tax deduction

And JCF has strict rules about who gets money: “[T]he Board of Trustees of the Jewish Communal Fund retains the right to deny any grant request where the purposes and activities of the recommended charitable organization are deemed to be adverse to the interests of the Jewish community.”

No one will answer Clifton’s questions; but it turns out it’s not just Geller:

JCF’s contributions to anti-Muslim groups aren’t limited to the AFDI. In the 2013 tax year, JCF contributed $36,200 to the Clarion Fund, adding to a $27,880 grant made in 2007.

The Clarion Fund, an offshoot of the Jewish Orthodox fundamentalist Aish HaTorah, gained notoriety for its distribution of the film “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West” to 28 million swing state voters before the 2008 presidential election between then-Sen. Barack Obama, an Illinois Democrat, and Sen. John McCain, a Republican in Arizona. The film’s central thesis was that fundamentalist Islam is as bad as, if not worse than, Nazism.

As for Geller’s Islamophobia, the Southern Poverty Law Center describes her as the “figurehead” of Islamophobia; and of course it comes out of support for Israel:

Pamela Geller is the anti-Muslim movement’s most visible and flamboyant figurehead. She’s relentlessly shrill and coarse in her broad-brush denunciations of Islam and makes preposterous claims, such as that President Obama is the “love child” of Malcolm X. She makes no pretense of being learned in Islamic studies, leaving the argumentative heavy lifting to her Stop Islamization of America partner Robert Spencer. Geller has mingled comfortably with European racists and fascists, spoken favorably of South African racists, defended Serbian war criminal Radovan Karadzic and denied the existence of Serbian concentration camps. She has taken a strong pro-Israel stance to the point of being sharply critical of Jewish liberals.

Geller is pro-Israel. The JCF is also pro-Israel. That’s why Clifton’s report is so meaningful to me. Defining the Jewish community as pro-Israel was the great project of Zionists in the years following the Biltmore program of 1942 and leading up to the Yom Kippur War in 1973, by which time the American Jewish community was wholly identified with support for Israel. Israel needed us; and we became one! as propagandists exclaimed. In fact, the Jewish community lost other broad bases of Jewish identification outside of Israel; it became completely Zionist– which is why members of that community assert with sincerity that anti-Zionists are anti-Semites.

Plainly Jews have a strong need for community, as so many other American minority groups do. But that community definition has been so circumscribed along Israel lines that virulent pro-Israel groups like Pam Geller’s or the neoconservatives have been included as brothers and sisters. The inclusion of militants led to fatal mistakes in the community, as when the Reform Jews endorsed the Iraq war; because they’d heard from friends and relatives that it would be good for Israel.

That is what is so stirring and important about Jewish Voice for Peace. It understands the importance of community but is offering a very different definition of Jewish community, one that condemns Islamophobia, opposes Israel’s crimes and has a welcome mat out for non-Jewish progressives.

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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90 Responses

  1. pabelmont
    pabelmont
    November 21, 2015, 1:00 pm

    Do any Christian community groups feel a need (and accede to it) to condemn Jews? Wouldn’t that be the same?

  2. oldgeezer
    oldgeezer
    November 21, 2015, 1:37 pm

    Regardless of one’s feelings with respect to Israel or Islam it beggars belief that they could support people as vile as Geller, Spencer (or Horowitz for that matter). These people are the face of evil in our times.

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 21, 2015, 2:38 pm

      I think MW should arrange a “most wanted Israeli ” deck of cards” as was done in the Iraq case Netanyahu would obviously be the “King” of spades .The difficulty would arise in deciding where the other 51 would be placed as there are so many vile zionists . Geller would be in the top ten with Bennet and lets not forget , Mark “let me be clear ” Regev.

      So many possibilities .so few cards.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        November 21, 2015, 7:55 pm

        @a

        Geller is an American but then it probably makes no difference to MW commenters. Keep dreaming friend

      • amigo
        amigo
        November 22, 2015, 9:31 am

        “Keep dreaming friend”Duhbakr.

        No zionist is my friend. I am choosy about whom I make friends with and certainly liars and apologists of war crimes and land theft are ever likely to earn my friendship.Try disgust.

        Geller is an Israel firster in the full meaning of the term and is a hateful Islamaphobe and has earned her place on that deck of cards.

    • tokyobk
      tokyobk
      November 21, 2015, 7:58 pm

      I agree with you Geezer. It’s a tell. I know many nutty Jewish nationalists but once you cross into Geller territory its about much more than I/P, imo.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        November 21, 2015, 8:12 pm

        Sadly there are nuts on all sides of all issues.

    • JWalters
      JWalters
      November 22, 2015, 7:28 pm

      Looks like another case of “follow the money”. The “official” Jewish community appears to be ruled by money, with even rabbis being intimidated. The meeting-packers with strong feelings are not just independent concerned citizens. They are an engineered mob of strong feelings. Ditto for the engineered strong feelings in the media and politicians. It makes sense that corporate war profiteering mass murderers have no limits on vile. “The face of evil” is about right.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 22, 2015, 9:10 pm

        “Looks like another case of “follow the money”. The “official” Jewish community appears to be ruled by money, with even rabbis being intimidated. “

        I don’t know about other countries, but in America, I’m pretty sure Jewish religious organizations are financed about the same as all the other religious organizations in America.

      • JWalters
        JWalters
        November 23, 2015, 6:19 pm

        For some reason my response to Mooser is not being displayed, after several tries, including a re-write. Maybe this will be displayed. It is, so I’ll add my response as an edit.

        Certainly they have a lot in common, including average donations from the congregation members and some large donations from wealthier members. But some Christian preachers, such as Hagee, don’t need to rely on wealthy donors because they swindle their congregations directly, squeezing tithes out of people who can’t afford them. Martin Luther’s rebellion was against this sort of thing. And where there are larger donations, I think they are fairly independent of each other, and generally don’t require loyalty to a foreign government.

        And certainly there are decent congregations and leaders in all religions that sincerely aim to follow the golden rule.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 24, 2015, 12:55 am

        But I don’t think the JCF is actually a religious institution like a Synagogue. It’s a “philanthropic fund”.

  3. PeaceThroughJustice
    PeaceThroughJustice
    November 21, 2015, 2:31 pm

    “… and has a welcome mat out for non-Jewish progressives.”

    Just don’t expect to have any say on the board of directors.

  4. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 21, 2015, 2:49 pm

    When it comes to belief beggaring in America 2015 you don`t necessarily have to concentrate on the Gellers and the Spencers and US citizens (Jewish and non Jewish alike ) actually supporting them. All you need without having switch on and waste electricity is to conjure up an image of Donald Trump or any of the presenters / invited guests on Fox News.

    We don`t have a Pamela Geller here in the UK thank god. The nearest equivalent I suppose is the odious Melanie Phillips who is a Times columnist and full time Israel firster – in her eyes her beloved people can do no wrong. She comes across when interviewed or in political debate forums as being reasonably eloquent but the shutters truly come down when the talk is about poor defenceless Israel , the rampant anti semitism throughout the world from from North London to the South Pole and like most truly unhinged Zionists the threat to mankind from the evil genocidal end of days Iran. She gets ripped to shreds on TV here when challenged by normal hinged commentators when spouting out the Zionist line.

    As usual with a lot of the Zionist opinion pagers on the Times she never misses an opportunity to introduce poor old suffering Israel into the mix when musing on the latest international terror attacks. Apart from Israeli Jews being killed she doesn`t give a toss about any other victims of international terror but simply piggy backs on their deaths to attack evil Islam and of course equate Hamas and Hezbollah to ISIL which is Nitay Nitay Bang Bang`s latest wheeze.

    The trouble with these people is that because they are given a MSM forum they actuallly believe what they are spouting and don`t even bother to double check for potential bite backs eg her latest opinion piece following the Paris attacks headlines in bold “Terror attacks have everything to do with Islam ” followed by (and this is the best bit” The grievance culture that underpins the beliefs of many Muslims allows extremists to thrive.”
    Substitute Zionism for Islam and Jews for Muslims and you will get my meaning.

    In common with her fellow Israel firsters in America she is happy to wax lyrical to all and sundry about her passionate love for the Land of Creation but prefers not to move to her beloved to truly consummate that passion. I wonder why ?

  5. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    November 21, 2015, 3:23 pm

    Thanks for that awesome picture of Manhatten socialite Pamela Geller. Here is a more cheeky photo of the diva taken in Miami.

  6. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 21, 2015, 5:10 pm

    Sorry to re-post, but this youtube video supports Phil’s article. It say there has been $119 million put into this anti Muslim campaign, and that the donors are not revealed. I knew of this campaign years ago, and it seems today they have been successful in poisoning the minds of naive Americans, who obviously after incidents like Paris believe that all Muslims are evil or terrorists. Add to that, the fact that the media keeps covering this in a way make the religion look bad, and the people not trustworthy. How about mentioning that the majority of the 1.6 billion Muslims do not agree with terrorism, is against ISIS, and that it is the Muslims who have suffered with more casualties? According to Chris Hayes, the coverage in France is not as alarming as in the US. Geller apparently earns $200,000 a year (or is it a month?) for her Islamaphobic rants, posters, and demonizing Muslims. We should not be surprised that rich zionist are behind this, how else can Israel get away with the occupation, land thefts, and human rights abuses, without the Palestinians being connection to Muslims and terrorism.

    What we see and hear today from rabid republicans like Trump, Carson, Cruz (who recently mentioned that Muslims lie and it is mentioned in the Quran to do so), is simply adding fuel to a fire lit by Islamaphobes like Geller the Hate Yeller and other pro Israeli bigots.

  7. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    November 21, 2015, 7:53 pm

    Just because Pw and the Southern Poverty Law Center (distinctly left-wing) tries to promote Geller to the gullible mainstream US press as “Islamophobic” does not make it true. Gellar is shrill, she may step over the line in times of political ‘incorrectness’ but she has stated on numerous occasions that she is not against Muslims or Islam but she is against the US supporting Islamic extremists and what she specifically refers to as “jihadists” . She is also against the US deferring to Muslim pressure to embrace forms of the Sharia law. She gives many countless examples but on this I can not say how much deference is shown in US versus just the general tone of political correctness run amuck. Sharia law may be misunderstood but where it has been implemented in the world has not been a very encouraging example of the type of justice US or EU citizens are use to. I wonder if PW is an apologist for those who enforce strict and violent sharia law and jihadis who believe every bt of western society must be destroyed and replaced by Islam before there can ever be peace? As for the other 95% of Muslims in the US I haven’t heard or read Geller say anything against them. Id the assassins who threaten to kill here succeed she will be compared to Kahane even though I have read nothing from Gellar except her enthusiastic campaign to keep US speech free from the push from some fundamental Muslims to adhere more closely to sharia law. (at least their interpretation of it)

    • JLewisDickerson
      JLewisDickerson
      November 21, 2015, 10:44 pm

      SEE: “Hate Speech Has No Place in a Synagogue”
      Tue, 04/09/2013
      By Rabbi Michael White And Rabbi Jerome Davidson
      Special To The Jewish Week

      [EXCERPT] We write as rabbis devoted both to our faith community and to human rights for all peoples. We were disheartened to learn that the Great Neck Synagogue has invited Pamela Geller to speak on April 14. Geller has a long track record of hateful and virulently anti-Muslim views that seek to divide American Muslims and Jews, rather than unite them.

      Both the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League have designated Geller’s “Stop Islamization of America” organization as a hate group. As was recently reported in the Jewish Week, Etzion Neuer, director of community service and policy for the ADL’s New York region, said that Geller “under the guise of fighting radical Islam, absolutely demonizes an entire religion. In directing her rhetoric at the entire Islamic faith, she fuels anti-Islamic bigotry. Geller doesn’t do us any favors,” he continued. “She muddies the waters because she hands the platform to the extremists in our midst. Instead of thoughtful, fact-based dialogue on the issues, we get incendiary rhetoric and xenophobia.” . . .

      SOURCE – http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial-opinion/opinion/hate-speech-has-no-place-synagogue

      P.S. Geller’s talk was ultimately canceled, if I recall correctly. – J.L.D.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        November 22, 2015, 9:57 am

        yes. she is often cancelled when left wing activists get all riled up against her,. I guess lefties are pretty scary sometimes

    • JLewisDickerson
      JLewisDickerson
      November 21, 2015, 11:02 pm

      P.P.S. MEET DAVID YERUSHALMI, PAMELA GELLER’S WHITE SUPREMACIST ATTORNEY:

      “DAVID YERUSHALMI: ‘THE MAN BEHIND THE ANTI-SHARIAH MOVEMENT'”, By Pamela Geller, Atlas’ Stench, 7/31/2011

      [EXCERPTS] The ‘New York Times’ has a lengthy piece on a man I consider a national treasure, and I am not just saying that becuase he is my lawyer, representing me in numerous cases (i.e., the $10,000,000 lawsuit brought by Rifqa Bary’s parents; the violation of free speech in the banning of my freedom buses; the NYC transit ban on my Ground Zero mosque buses, etc.).
      The Times gets it wrong, of course. It woud be kind of wonderful for the likes of Andrea Elliot to practice her craft in a sharia-compliant country and spare us her smears and deceptive whitewash of the most brutal ideology on the face of the earth.
      It’s a smear piece, and a heads up to Ms. Elliot, America is behind the anti-shariah movement.

      “The Man Behind the Anti-Shariah Movement” ~ Andrea Elliot, ‘NY Times’
      A confluence of factors has fueled the anti-Shariah movement, most notably the controversy over the proposed Islamic center near ground zero in New York, concerns about homegrown terrorism and the rise of the Tea Party. But the campaign’s air of grass-roots spontaneity, which has been carefully promoted by advocates, shrouds its more deliberate origins.
      In fact, it is the product of an orchestrated drive that began five years ago in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, in the office of a little-known lawyer, David Yerushalmi, a 56-year-old Hasidic Jew with a history of controversial statements about race, immigration and Islam.
      Despite his lack of formal training in Islamic law, Mr. Yerushalmi has come to exercise a striking influence over American public discourse about Shariah. . .

      SOURCE – http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/07/david-yerushalmi-the-man-behind-the-anti-shariah-movement.html

      “David Yerushalmi, Islam-Hating White Supremacist Inspires Anti-Sharia Bills Sweeping Tea Party Nation”, by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 3/02/11

      [EXCERPTS] You’ve gotta hand it to David Yerushalmi. Until now, I can’t recall a Jew who’s ever been called a white supremacist before (actually now that I think of it, I called him a Jewish white supremacist way back in 2007). Thanks to him, we now can. . .
      . . . I’m referring to an eye-opening expose in Mother Jones about the inspiration the Jewish extremist is offering for the anti-Muslim legal initiatives that are sweeping the south after the victory of one such campaign in Oklahoma a few months ago. . .
      . . . One of the most delicious phrases used to describe the Jewish anti-jihadi is “white supremacist,” to which I say: if the shoe fits . . . I’ve also called him a Jewish fascist. But white supremacist will do just as well.
      As Murphy notes, this is a guy who endorses the principle that “Caucasians” are superior to blacks and that Jewish liberals are a cancer in the U.S. body politic. The nearest Jewish “intellectual” antecedent I can determine would be Meir Kahane. But Yerushalmi’s views are far more radical than Kahane’s. . .

      ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/03/02/david-yerushalmi-islam-hating-white-supremacist/

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      November 21, 2015, 11:53 pm

      @DKR

      I don’t think you’re capable of seeing or smelling the skunk water that sprays out of Ms. Gellar’s face hole as she is a pro-Israel shill. She’s the Jewish version of Ann Coulter. This isn’t about political correctness, just right and wrong.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        November 22, 2015, 5:26 am

        Or, Ann Coulter is the non-Jewish version of Miss PG, a Gellar Lite if you will, or Gellar as full-strength Coulter, either one a harmful, corrosive toxin that’ll melt the chrome right off your wheels with just one spray.

      • JLewisDickerson
        JLewisDickerson
        November 22, 2015, 2:07 pm

        Pamela Geller’s intense hatred is clearly visible on her face! Just like the hatred of Blacks was so clearly visible on the faces of some White Southerners back during the 50s and 60s.

    • diasp0ra
      diasp0ra
      November 22, 2015, 7:10 am

      @DaBakr

      Oh, she’s just against Jihadis and not against Islam, is she?

      No, she never differentiates between Islam and “Jihadist” Islam or whatever you want to label it.

      “Islam is not a race. This is an ideology. This is an extreme ideology, the most radical and extreme ideology on the face of the earth.”
      — Pam Geller On Fox Business’ “Follow the Money,” March 10, 2011

      “Hussein [meaning President Obama] is a muhammadan. He’s not insane … he wants jihad to win.”
      — Pam Geller, AtlasShrugs.com, April 11, 2010

      Muhammadan! She literally used muhammadan! Are we back in the 18th century? She uses despicable language and breeds hatred against ALL MUSLIMS, and ISLAM, she doesn’t even believe in a thing called “Moderate Islam”.

      If you’re judged by the company you keep then I’m not surprised that Zionism is facing a legitimacy crisis like never before in the Western world. If you need to ally yourself with bigots, you should know that your cause is doomed. But I suppose it’s nothing new to Israel, South Africa being one of your biggest buddies under Apartheid.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        November 22, 2015, 10:31 am

        @ds

        so what. If it was good enough for Ben Franklin then whats the big deal. Jews are called so many different names all over the world its not even funny. Why are so many Muslims and/or their apologists so easily insulted by things Jews and Christians have long gottused to -and if “used to” is too much then maybe: ‘have made a ‘peace’ with things’ said over centuries that may not reflect the current standard of utmost political correctness.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        November 23, 2015, 12:04 am

        “Why are so many Muslims and/or their apologists so easily insulted by things Jews and Christians have long gottused to -and if “used to” is too much then maybe: ‘have made a ‘peace’ with things’ said over centuries that may not reflect the current standard of utmost political correctness. ”

        Why do you assume the way you feel is representative of millions upon millions of people? And seriously, how can you reconcile your statement re: Jews ‘have made a ‘peace with things’ and the need for the creation of a Jewish state? Unless again peace means piece.

      • diasp0ra
        diasp0ra
        November 24, 2015, 12:16 pm

        @DaBakr

        Muhammadan has always been used in a pejorative way against Muslims. It is a pejorative term. If someone used a pejorative term against Jewish people you’d be screaming anti-semitism from the hilltops, hell, we’ve seen you doing it about legitimate criticism of Israel.

        Are you seriously telling me, that if it is good enough for Benjamin Franklin, then it should be good enough for everybody else? Is a racist unfaithful rich old man your moral compass, DaBakr? Would explain a lot, actually.

        This has nothing to do with political correctness, it’s a damn slur. If you knew anything about its history and how it was used and what it legitimized you’d understand that.

        Why are people insulted when they are insulted! Damn political correctness!

    • YoniFalic
      YoniFalic
      November 23, 2015, 4:25 am

      I see no difference between the occasionally recognition of halakhah in US civil law and similar occasional recognition of sharia in US civil law.

      I look in more detail at the relationship between JCF and AFDI/Stop Islamization of America.

      AFDI/SIOA does not have 501(c)(3) status while JCF does. It appears some donor or donors used JCF as a pass through in order to make a tax deductible contribution to AFDI/SIOA.

      There is probably an element of possible fraud and conspiracy to commit fraud in creating such a pass-through, but don’t hold your breath in expectation that the IRS will strip JCF of 501(c)(3) status.

      The idea of giving 501(c)(3) status to an organization dedicated to attacking a recognized religion seems legally problematic to me, and to tell the truth, if I were religiously inclined — which I am not, I would probably consider Islam the least offensive and most reasonable of the Abrahamic religions.

      Neither does Islam claim that souls of Muslims are superior to those of non-Muslims, nor does Islam assert ridiculous or incomprehensible doctrines like the trinity.

  8. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    November 22, 2015, 5:33 am

    “Plainly Jews have a strong need for community, as so many other American minority groups do. But that community definition has been so circumscribed along Israel lines that virulent pro-Israel groups like Pam Geller’s or the neoconservatives have been included as brothers and sisters. The inclusion of militants led to fatal mistakes in the community, as when the Reform Jews endorsed the Iraq war; because they’d heard from friends and relatives that it would be good for Israel.”

    Firstly: many Jews have a strong need for community. Not all Jews. Some Jews like to move out into areas where they expect to meet no Jews at get togethers and other Jews try to mingle and hide the fact that they’re Jewish. Some Jews never tell their kids that they are Jews, so that their kids can grow up unaware of any handicap, so that their kids will not be held back by the Jews, by the small pond that is the Jewish world and declare the wide open world to be their true family and their roots as mere encumbrance.

    Second: the reaction to the abyss that was the genocide in Europe required a very visceral reaction to those born in the immediate aftermath of that experience. Some reacted, as I just said, by converting and telling their kids nothing of their ill fated roots. Those who take history seriously and who refuse to “pass” have a specific incentive to figure out what community means. Those who arrived on American shores over a hundred years ago, for the most part stayed in big cities and then followed the move to suburbia to overwhelmingly Jewish suburbs and the intermarriage rate was low for many years. Obviously this changed to today’s high intermarriage rate and raises real questions on whether community is a real concern or merely something to be mourned. (Too late to close the barn door. The horse has bolted.)

    Religion remained as a primary memory for a generation or two, but by now has for the most part faded into photo album memories. With the Holocaust fading as a memory as well, Israel has replaced the Holocaust and Eastern European roots as the only focus of community that many Jews can feel, given their alienation from religion.

    The primary push of the nonOrthodox Jewish American religious community has seemed to be: Tikkun, as in fixing the world, as in liberal to further left politics, which is certainly at natural loggerheads with the Netanyahu government, if not with Zionism in total. The development of JVP as a community can be seen in that context.

    My background is of those who came to America relatively late (my paternal grandparents arrived in the 20’s and my maternal grandparents arrived in the 40’s) who were much closer to tradition/Orthodoxy/Torah (more ancient expressions of community than recognized in this article) than the norm which views all replacements for Torah: even Israel and Holocaust memories as secondary to the texts and observances of Jewish rituals. As such almost all the types of community other than those that stem from the texts and the mitzvos seem signals of decadence (decay/weakening/impoverishment/mistaking the superficial for the essence).

    Pamela Geller is a symptom of this decay that thinks that nationalism can replace mitzvos, Torah and God. Nationalism is at times as necessary as eating, but Geller’s type of nationalism is a type of eating disorder of a 400 pound circus freak. There are plenty of offensive nationalistic trends in the Torah and Talmud and it seems that these (emptied of all positive content) have become the new god of Jews like Pamela Geller.

    Five days ago Phil Weiss’s headline read that the best response to Paris was a repudiation of Jewish nationalism. Today Weiss endorses community as his replacement for Jewish nationalism. But his community not only rejects Pamela Geller it rejects all nationalism and has no place for attitudes towards Israel that are to the right of JVP. Weiss said something valid: A belief in community that accepts all nationalism, accepts Pamela Geller who needs to be rejected. But Phil Weiss’s belief in Jewish community is limited to those who agree with him and Norm Finkelstein and Max Blumenthal and Noam Chomsky. If you disagree with them, you best off realize that you are on Pamela Geller’s side, automatically, in his book.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 22, 2015, 3:43 pm

      Gosh, “Yonah”, you mystify me.
      I know what it’s like to be a Jew, but I wonder what it’s like to think you are the Jew.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 23, 2015, 7:52 am

        I read a story this morning about the Halabi family of Jewish Syrians fleeing Aleppo. Mother and sister made aliya to Israel but Gilda – who married a Muslim and converted to Islam – was refused similar entry.

        Zio-supremacists will tell you ad nauseam that Jewish is not just about religion: It’s a culture and a people and a nation and a civilization. They’ll tell you that Jewish is just like French and American and German.

        Until you convert to another religion.

        And then Jewish suddenly stops being a culture and a people and a nation and a civilization; and it stops being just like French and American and German; and it reverts to what it fundamentally always is: A religion-based identity.

  9. RoHa
    RoHa
    November 22, 2015, 5:56 am

    “. In fact, the Jewish community lost other broad bases of Jewish identification outside of Israel; it became completely Zionist– which is why members of that community assert with sincerity that anti-Zionists are anti-Semites.”

    And this implies that anti-Semitism is not always bad!

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 22, 2015, 3:52 pm

      “And this implies that anti-Semitism is not always bad!”

      Only thing it seems to imply is that accusations of anti-semitism, no matter how sincere, can be misguided, or even cynical.

    • hophmi
      hophmi
      November 23, 2015, 7:24 am

      I’m sure you’d like to believe that, RoHa.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 24, 2015, 2:00 am

        I interpret “In fact, the Jewish community lost other broad bases of Jewish identification outside of Israel; it became completely Zionist– which is why members of that community assert with sincerity that anti-Zionists are anti-Semites” as meaning “Jewishness in general is now largely Zionism, and so anti-Zionism is a form of anti-Jewishness.”

        This gives me:

        1: Anti-Zionism is a form of anti-Jewishness/anti-Semitism. (We will call that form AS1)
        2: Anti-Zionism is not bad.
        3: AS1 =anti-Zionism (from 1)
        4: Therefore, AS1 is not bad.
        5: Therefore, when anti-Jewishness/anti-Semitism = AS1, anti-Jewishness/anti-Semitism is not bad.

        This conclusion does not exculpate all forms of anti-Jewishness/anti-Semitism. Some forms are bad.

        Is there a problem with the logic?
        Or is the problem with my interpretation of the quoted passage? If so, how should it be interpreted?

        Please note that I am just interpreting the passage. That does not mean that I agree with the content.

        Wait! I am trying to use logical arguments with hophmi! This will overload all his logic circuits, when he needs them to gather together all the arguments for Jewish self-determination rights, so that I can see that he has devastating responses to my arguments against them.

        Sorry. My mistake.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 24, 2015, 8:51 am

        || RoHa: … Wait! I am trying to use logical arguments with hophmi! This will overload all his logic circuits … ||

        Dunno about logic circuits, but he does have Zio-supremacist “logic” circuits that enable him to examine any event – an attack on Jews, a condemnation of Jewish (war) crimes, a cool breeze blowing in the wrong direction – and “logically” conclude that it is anti-Semitic.

      • hophmi
        hophmi
        November 25, 2015, 1:22 pm

        As usual, logical arguments fall apart when they’re based on faulty assumptions as yours is, RoHa, and as Phil’s is.

        Here’s what Phil wrote:

        “Geller is pro-Israel. The JCF is also pro-Israel. That’s why Clifton’s report is so meaningful to me. Defining the Jewish community as pro-Israel was the great project of Zionists in the years following the Biltmore program of 1942 and leading up to the Yom Kippur War in 1973, by which time the American Jewish community was wholly identified with support for Israel. Israel needed us; and we became one! as propagandists exclaimed. In fact, the Jewish community lost other broad bases of Jewish identification outside of Israel; it became completely Zionist– which is why members of that community assert with sincerity that anti-Zionists are anti-Semites.

        Let’s break it down.

        “Geller is pro-Israel. The JCF is also pro-Israel. ”

        That’s the logical equivalent of saying that the sky is blue, and a racquet ball is blue, so they must be the same thing, since both are blue.

        “Defining the Jewish community as pro-Israel was the great project of Zionists in the years following the Biltmore program of 1942 and leading up to the Yom Kippur War in 1973, by which time the American Jewish community was wholly identified with support for Israel”

        It’s amazing the way Phil always omits history when he makes statements like this one. The main achievement of the Biltmore program was to marshall support in the Jewish community for the establishment of a Jewish state. Zionists didn’t have to work hard to get Jews to understand the importance of a Jewish state post-Holocaust and especially post-1967 War.

        “In fact, the Jewish community lost other broad bases of Jewish identification outside of Israel; it became completely Zionist”

        That statement is silly. The most ardent supporters of Israel today are Modern Orthodox Jews. Their base of Jewish identification is based around common practice, as are most religious Jews, which is the fastest growing sector of the Jewish community. Their Jewish identification incorporates Israel, but is not based exclusively or even mostly on it.

        “which is why members of that community assert with sincerity that anti-Zionists are anti-Semites.”

        The reason why so many members of the Jewish community assert that anti-Zionists are anti-Semites is because so many of them seem to be anti-semites. Phil himself repeatedly blames Jews for starting the Iraq War and speculates that there are too many Jews in powerful political positions in the United States. Antisemitic canards, which for decades weren’t heard outside of the far-right, like referring to the US Congress as “Zionist occupied,” are common in the anti-Zionist community. Holocaust denial is common among anti-Zionists, I’ve seen people cite the Rense cite more than once.

        Then, of course, there’s the structural antisemitism inherent in anti-Zionism – the obsessive targeting of the world’s only Jewish state, and the concurrent silence by comparison from anti-Zionists about nearly every other human rights abuse in the region, the truth that if there were 15 million Muslims and 1.5 billion Jews, we probably wouldn’t hear much about a Jewish state, because there would be dozens of them, rather than one, etc.

        So save your self-referential nonsense, RoHa. Your argument is not remotely logical or clever.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 25, 2015, 10:05 pm

        “So save your self-referential nonsense, RoHa. Your argument is not remotely logical or clever.”

        Self-referential?

        It’s nice to see you actually present a counter argument. However, you haven’t actually shown a fault with the logic. Rather, you are attacking my first premise. Your criticism seems to be directed more at Phil’s claims than my interpretation of his claims, but if his claims are wrong then my interpretation of them will lead to a faulty premise. Thus, while I was correct in claiming the conclusion follows, the conclusion is not soundly based.

        Fair enough.

        I will let Phil take up the task of defending his claims if he wants to, but I will comment on a little of what you say.

        “The reason why so many members of the Jewish community assert that anti-Zionists are anti-Semites is because so many of them seem to be anti-semites.”

        Fair enough*, if true.

        “Phil himself repeatedly blames Jews for starting the Iraq War”

        If it is true, is it still anti-Semitic? And if it is both true and anti-Semitic, does that mean that some truths should be suppressed?

        “ Antisemitic canards, which for decades weren’t heard outside of the far-right, like referring to the US Congress as “Zionist occupied,” are common in the anti-Zionist community.”

        Same question.

        (*Of course, it may also be the case that the reason why so many anti-Semites assert that Jews [ fill in the blank with trope] is because so many of them seem to [ repeat trope].”)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 25, 2015, 10:47 pm

        “as are most religious Jews, which is the fastest growing sector of the Jewish community.”

        C’mon, “Hophmi” what does that mean in , you know, actual numbers? Pretty goddam few people, actually.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 26, 2015, 7:18 am

        || hophmi: … the truth that if there were 15 million Muslims and 1.5 billion Jews, we probably wouldn’t hear much about a Jewish state, because there would be dozens of them, rather than one, etc. ||

        If that one religion-supremacist, non-Jewish state were as hateful, immoral, belligerent and (war) criminal as Israel is today, you would hear a lot about it. And if that non-Jewish state were persecuting Jews, you’re damned right you’d be hearing about that, too.

        Why do you insist on giving a free pass to Jewish people – because they are Jewish – to commit acts of injustice and immorality against others?

        And if you’re not giving Jewish people a free pass – if you think all people should be permitted to commit acts of injustice and immorality against whomever they wish – why do you whine, bitch and moan when acts of injustice and immorality are committed against Jews?

        Either:
        – there is a standard of just and moral behaviour you expect all people to adhere to, in which case you’re a hypocrite for not holding Jews to that same standard; or
        – there is no standard of just and moral behaviour and you’re a hypocrite for complaining that Jews are treated as poorly as they treat others.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 26, 2015, 11:32 am

        “the truth that if there were 15 million Muslims and 1.5 billion Jews, we probably wouldn’t hear much about a Jewish state because there would be dozens of them…” “Hophmi”

        But, my dear “Hophmi” there aren’t 1.5 billion Jews and and 15 million Muslims. It is, as you point out, the other way round.
        But we are supposed to pretend there are 1.5 billion Jews and 15 million Muslims? Why would anybody do that?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 26, 2015, 6:00 pm

        Eljay, I’m a bit reluctant to speculate on what hophmi thinks, since he and I have contrary souls. (His soul comes from holiness, whereas mine is from the satanic spheres.)

        However, it seems to me that he holds that there is a standard of just and moral behaviour for all people to adhere to, and that exception clauses for Jews are built in to the standard. Also, a major part of the standard is the “no-one shall crticize Jews or anything remotely connected with Jews under any circumstances whatsoever” clause.

        So there is no real hypocrisy. It just looks like it to us because our souls are satanic. (Yours more so than mine?)

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 27, 2015, 7:25 am

        || RoHa: Eljay, I’m a bit reluctant to speculate on what hophmi thinks, since he and I have contrary souls. (His soul comes from holiness, whereas mine is from the satanic spheres.) … ||

        Given your respective records here at MW, I would never have guessed that the origins of you souls are as you describe them.

        || … there is no real hypocrisy. It just looks like it to us because our souls are satanic. (Yours more so than mine?) ||

        Well…I do enjoy the Devil’s music.

        I want you to hear me out there
        This is for all you bad boys
        This a story of the Satan rock ‘n’ roll
        I want you to put your hand in your pocket
        Take ten dollars out and send it to me

        \m/ > , < \m/

      • hophmi
        hophmi
        November 27, 2015, 12:21 pm

        “It’s nice to see you actually present a counter argument. However, you haven’t actually shown a fault with the logic. Rather, you are attacking my first premise”

        Your assumption is wrong, so your argument is irrelevant.

        “If it is true, is it still anti-Semitic? And if it is both true and anti-Semitic, does that mean that some truths should be suppressed?”

        It isn’t true, remotely. The United States is a country of 320,000,000 people. Around 5-6 million are Jews. When the United States chose to go to war with Iraq, the President was a Protestant and so was the Vice-President and Secretary of Defense. It is illogical to suggest that Jews were the ones who caused the war to take place, as Phil has done repeatedly. It’s antisemitic because it asserts both that Jews act collectively as a fifth column to undermine the United States, which is, of course, untrue.

        “Same question.”

        Same answer. It’s untrue, and frankly, the vast majority of rational people don’t need to go through this game to understand that.

        “But we are supposed to pretend there are 1.5 billion Jews and 15 million Muslims? Why would anybody do that?”

        Is it too challenging for you, Mooser? I think it’s a fairly simple thought experiment. If Jews represented 1.5 billion people and 57 countries at the United Nations, rather 15 million people and 1 country, I don’t think that there would be an international campaign to target Israel.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 27, 2015, 1:39 pm

        If Jews represented 1.5 billion people and 57 countries at the United Nations, rather 15 million people and 1 country,”

        But they don’t. Start schtupping, or go out converting, or if you can find the time, do both.

        Or you could just go around saying that 15 million Jews is the equivalent of 1.5 billion ordinary people. That’ll work.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 27, 2015, 1:54 pm

        Mooser

        “But they don’t. Start schtupping, or go out converting, or if you can find the time, do both. ”

        I think he’s too busy reaching out.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 27, 2015, 2:36 pm

        “I think he’s too busy reaching out.”

        On behalf of the JMVA (Jewish-Muslim Volunteer Alliance) no doubt, as he sits on the board.
        And sits “on the board of an institute within the American Jewish Committee”.

      • tree
        tree
        November 27, 2015, 3:12 pm

        I think it’s a fairly simple thought experiment. If Jews represented 1.5 billion people and 57 countries at the United Nations, rather 15 million people and 1 country, I don’t think that there would be an international campaign to target Israel. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/jewish-communal-islamophobia#comment-157537

        Yes, it’ a simple thought experiment but, as usual, hophmi’s sense of Jewish exceptionalism gets in the way of him finding the simple answer to his simple thought experiment. Since Jews are not 1.5 billion of the planet’s population and won’t be in the immediate future, the easiest way to test his hypothesis is to look at countries that are majority Muslim or Christian, since adherents of those two religions make up, respectively, 1.6 billion and 2.2 billion of the world’s population. Then we can ask ourselves, have they ever been “targeted” by an “international campaign” like Israel?

        And of course the answer is a resounding yes, they have and the list is long. In no particular order: Apartheid South Africa (Christian), the former Yugoslavia(Christian), Iraq ( Muslim), Iran (Muslim), Libya (Muslim) , Nicaragua (Christian), Cuba (Christian), Sudan (Muslim), Palestine (Muslim). These are just off the top of my head, I’m sure others could add to the list.

        So hophmi’s answer is incorrect. Not only have majority Muslim and Christian states been “targetted”, some have been subject to much more violent and direct targetting (i.e. invasion and war) than Israel has ever faced. BDS is a relatively mild ‘targeting’.

        His error being that the only ‘targetting’ that he notices is that directed at the Jewish State, since he cares not a whit about any other state.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 28, 2015, 12:27 am

        “Your assumption is wrong, so your argument is irrelevant.”

        But the argument can be amended to lead to a more general position. I know you like thought experiments, so please indulge me in this one.

        A lot of Israel supporters seem to believe that all anti-Zionism stems from, and is a symptom of, an underlying anti-Semitism. Let us suppose, though, that there are some anti-Zionists who do not suffer from any prior anti-Semitism, and whose opposition is solely based on the actions of the Zionists. We will call this “pure anti-Zionism”. We can now argue as follows:

        1. If all anti-Zionism is a form of anti-Semitism, then pure anti-Zionism is a form of anti-Semitism (form AS1).
        2: Pure Anti-Zionism is not bad.
        3: AS1 = pure anti-Zionism (from 1)
        4: Therefore, AS1 is not bad.
        5: Therefore, when anti-Jewishness/anti-Semitism = AS1, anti-Jewishness/anti-Semitism is not bad.

        I can see three responses you might make here. (There might be others.)

        The first is to deny the protasis or antecedent of the first premise, and simply accept that not all forms of anti-Zionism are forms of anti-Semitism.

        The second is to accept the argument in toto but deny it has any real-world relevance, on the grounds that pure anti-Zionism does not exist. A difficulty here is that there are plenty of people, including Jews, who claim that their position is, indeed, pure anti-Zionism. You could, perhaps, suggest that they are either lying or self-deceived, and that in fact they are all anti-Semites or self-haters, but this move reeks of desperate ad hoccery. To support it you would have to offer – in each case – reasons (independent reasons, so as to avoid petitio principii) for believing the person is an anti-Semite or self-hater.

        (Keeping a straight face while making such claims about Lillian Rosengarten or Moshe Menhuin would require exceptional faith or exceptional self-discipline.)

        The third is to deny premise 2, and declare all forms of Zionism bad. The best way to do that would be to produce a moral argument for Zionism.

        I would love to see you try.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 28, 2015, 12:47 am

        ‘“If it is true, is it still anti-Semitic? And if it is both true and anti-Semitic, does that mean that some truths should be suppressed?”

        It isn’t true, remotely.’

        I did not ask whether it was true or not.

        I asked a hypothetical. Again, in the spirit of thought experiments, I will put the issue in more general terms.

        Can a claim be both true and anti-Semitic? And if it is both true and anti-Semitic, does that mean that some truths should be suppressed?

        “It is illogical to suggest that Jews were the ones who caused the war to take place, as Phil has done repeatedly. It’s antisemitic because it asserts both that Jews act collectively as a fifth column to undermine the United States, which is, of course, untrue.”

        It seems to me that Phil makes two claims about the Iraq war. (He can correct me if I get them wrong.)

        One is that a small, select, group of Jews pushed the US into the Iraq war. That group did act collectively, but not with the aim of undermining the US. The undermining was a by-effect.

        The other is that a very large proportion of American Jews “endorsed the Iraq war; because they’d heard from friends and relatives that it would be good for Israel.”

        Endorsing is not the same as causing.

        If the first claim is true (and I see no “of course” about it), it does rather support his speculation that there are too many Jews in powerful political positions in the United States.

  10. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 22, 2015, 6:17 am

    Do as I say not as I do. Israel seems to the culprit who has not signed the NPT nor revealed it’s secretive nuclear weapons program. Israel is one of the most devious, untrustworthy nations, in the ME, and has a leader who has a few screws loose, so this is not a good situation for the world:

    “BETHLEHEM (Ma’an) — A Washington-based think tank published a study Friday reporting Israel’s possession of around 115 nuclear weapons, despite the country’s ongoing policy of ambiguity regarding its nuclear capacities.
    According to the report by the Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS), Israel has produced 660 Kg of plutonium in a nuclear reactor located in Dimona, near the city of Beersheba.
    Israel began plutonium production in 1963 and had used it to make around 115 nuclear weapons by the end of 2014, the first of which was developed shortly before the 1967 Six Day War, the report said.
    The major nuclear weapons production complex in Dimona contains several “secret nuclear facilities for the production of plutonium,” ISIS reported.”

    http://www.juancole.com/2015/11/around-nuclear-weapons.html

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      November 22, 2015, 11:05 am

      Maybe Jonathan Pollard can spy on Israel for the country that he so eagerly betrayed. Maybe he better watch his behind though because Shin Bet would probably love to have a little face time with him to talk about old times.

      • JWalters
        JWalters
        November 22, 2015, 7:36 pm

        Has the U.S. ever imprisoned a British spy, or a French spy? Why an Israeli spy? How is the U.S. relationship with Israel different? What does this tell us about how they see the U.S.?

        Of Americans who spied on America for foreign countries, as listed at
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_spies

        from a total of 22, 17 were for the Soviets & Russia, 2 were for Israel, 1 for China, 1 for Cuba, and 1 for Ghana.

      • Eva Smagacz
        Eva Smagacz
        November 23, 2015, 12:15 am

        Well, I don’t know about french spies, but british spies are consummate professionals. Just looking at James Bond, it is unlikely that he would get caught in his spy-craft, and if caught, that he would be successfully detained.

      • JWalters
        JWalters
        November 23, 2015, 6:29 pm

        Eva, good point. British spy George Smiley is another case.

        Side note: I wonder if we’ll see a Hollywood movie on the heroic spy exploits of Jonathan Pollard.

  11. Herchel
    Herchel
    November 22, 2015, 11:40 am

    Thank Gd Israel has nuclear weapons. It is surrounded by hostile radical Islamic terrorists who want to see it destroyed. It’s nuclear capabilities are included among the accomplishments that have allowed it to survive. That is why the Arabs are now turning to BDS with the help of self hating Jews and other useful idiots.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 22, 2015, 6:29 pm

      “That is why the Arabs are now turning to BDS with the help of self hating Jews and other useful idiots.”

      Disgusting, isn’t it? What kind of people would engage in an economic boycott while Israel has nuclear weapons it needs to use?

      Hey, “Herschel”, please tell me, what are the possible targets for Israel’s nuclear weapons? (outside of Europe, of course, the fallout can’t reach Israel from there)

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 22, 2015, 10:10 pm

        More precisely, nuclear fallout from either Palestine or Europe can’t reach New York and Florida and LA, so why should the leaders of Zionism have serious qualms about nukes?

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 22, 2015, 8:10 pm

      @ Herchel “Thank Gd Israel has nuclear weapons. It is surrounded by hostile radical Islamic terrorists who want to see it destroyed. “

      Is that the same Gd who didn’t even bother to show up during the Holocaust?

      Odd that the neighbouring regional powers have had a peace initiative on the table for years that doesn’t contain any threats to destroy Israel. In fact it cedes territories to Israel for peace.

      Israel has ignored it.

      “It’s nuclear capabilities are included among the accomplishments that have allowed it to survive”

      Yes, just having nukes is a threat to use them. Otherwise there’s no point having ’em. The Jewish State is the only state in the region threatening its neighbours with nukes

      “That is why the Arabs are now turning to BDS with the help of self hating Jews and other useful idiots”

      Asking a state to adhere to International Law and the UN Charter is self hating and idiotic? WOW!!! That’s amazing!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 22, 2015, 9:00 pm

        “Is that the same Gd who didn’t even bother to show up during the Holocaust?”

        That was different. We didn’t have stolen nuclear weapons back then, but now that we do, God will see how much we deserve His help. We did our part, God will do His.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 22, 2015, 8:26 pm

      || Herchel: Thank Gd Israel has nuclear weapons. It is surrounded by hostile radical Islamic terrorists who want to see it destroyed. … ||

      One can only hope that Iran will acquire nuclear weapons to defend itself against hostile radical Islamic and Zio-supremacist Jewish terrorists who want to see it destroyed.

      || … It’s nuclear capabilities are included among the accomplishments that have allowed it to survive. … ||

      Other accomplishments that have allowed it to survive include:
      – guilting (“Remember the Holocaust!”), intimidating (w/ never-ending accusations of anti-Semitism) and strong-arming Western nations into providing an overabundance of military, financial, political and economic support; and
      – cherry tomatoes.

      • Philemon
        Philemon
        November 24, 2015, 8:38 pm

        eljay wrote: “One can only hope that Iran will acquire nuclear weapons to defend itself against hostile radical Islamic and Zio-supremacist Jewish terrorists who want to see it destroyed. ”

        Iran won’t, though. They have moral objections to nuclear weapons. They seem to recognize that nuclear weapons are genocidal. The legitimacy of their government is bound up with the moral objections to nuclear weapons. Nuclear power plants are okay, and their medical community wants to be able to give cancer patients radiation therapy, but that’s it.

        Of course, I doubt Israel itself has working nuclear weapons. Never tested. Probably afraid they’d fail. I don’t blame them. The people who sold them the stuff were obviously completely untrustworthy, and, by now, the stuff is so old and degraded, even if it had been any good in the first place, which I for one doubt, odds are it’d be a damp squib. Think how embarrassing that would be.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 25, 2015, 11:52 am

        Philemon,

        How do you know we don’t produce and try the Zionist nukes for them? That’s the only logical conclusion anyway.

      • Philemon
        Philemon
        November 25, 2015, 8:18 pm

        echinococcus:

        1. The U.S. nuclear weapons testing is under Dept. of Energy control.

        2. The U.S. is allowed only simulations these days under the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty of 1996. Israel is not a signatory of that treaty.

        3. Israel has never tested a nuclear weapon. Ever.

        4. Nuclear weapons are not reliable unless tested. A numerical simulation could only be reliable based on empirical in-the-ground tests.

        5. If Israel had a nuclear weapon they were ready to test, are we to believe they haven’t tested it because it would jeopardize U.S. congressional support?

        Admittedly, we don’t know that Israel doesn’t control the U.S. Dept. of Energy… but Congress?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 26, 2015, 12:04 am

        “which I for one doubt, odds are it’d be a damp squib.”

        A nuclear “damp squib” is a dirty bomb. Not as much explosive power, lots of radioactive particles. Still plenty bad. If Israel did have working bombs, they would still need maintenance and reworking of the plutonium every ten years.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 26, 2015, 1:15 am

        Philemon,

        A bit naive. I was asking, what if the US were gifting nukes to the Zionist entity, and/or testing and maintaining them? Would you know? Do you believe official versions? Forget the Department of this or that, who owns Congress?

      • lysias
        lysias
        November 26, 2015, 8:33 am

        Never tested a nuclear weapon? What about that mysterious Vela explosion that is generally thought to have been a joint test by Israel and South Africa?

      • Philemon
        Philemon
        November 27, 2015, 8:05 pm

        The point is that Israel claims to have nuclear weapons but has never proven it. There’s a propaganda issue here.

        Theory 1 is that Israel has nuclear weapons, and, somehow, they just know they work, testing in secret, or through the U.S., or France back in the day. However, Israel wants everyone to believe they have nuclear weapons, and not just nuclear weapons, but enhanced fission bombs, or preferably thermonuclear capability. So why all the secrecy? Why not test the damn things? They are the only purported nuclear power that hasn’t unambiguously tested one themselves. The point of testing is not just to be sure they work, but to let everyone know you’ve got them so that they can have the full deterrent effect. Supposedly, Israel has hundreds of them; so sparing one or two for testing shouldn’t be a problem.

        The idea that Israel hasn’t tested one because they are afraid of adverse world opinion or, even more laughably, of losing U.S. Congressional support is ludicrous.

        So, we arrive at Theory 2, which is that Israel hasn’t conducted a test because it doesn’t believe it has a working nuclear weapon. Or, possibly that it is has so few that it can’t spare one for testing, but that still means it isn’t sure it’s even got one. Israel wouldn’t want to test one and have it be a damp squib. Israel hasn’t merely claimed to have a dirty bomb; Israel has deliberately given the impression that it has working enhanced nuclear weapons or even thermonuclear weapons.

        It’s way cheaper to claim you have the stuff than to develop it, build it, and test it. And Israel is not a large or rich country. It has a very large conventional military budget to support. So yeah, Israel might claim to be in on this South African test or that French test, but, if it really had something it was sure would work, would it be content to share the limelight like that? Of course not. It would want everyone to see that the genocidal maniac had genocidal means at its disposal.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 28, 2015, 12:19 am

        Philemon,

        Israel is not a large or rich country. It has a very large conventional military budget to support.

        Fact is, it has the bottomless US military capacity at its disposal. You only have a lying government’s word that it is only “conventional”.

        As for rejecting all reasons for maintaining ambiguity, the Zionists’ deviousness is not limited by your imagination, or mine.

        Finally, nukes are certainly not repeat not genocidal weapons in the hands of the Zionists, for the good reason that they live on the land of the very people they desire to eliminate. The nukes are there to threaten the entire Middle East and, some credibly say, Europe.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 28, 2015, 1:06 am

        I think you make a good point, Philemon.

      • Philemon
        Philemon
        November 29, 2015, 7:08 pm

        echinococcus:

        I have no idea what you are trying to argue. It appears to be incoherent.

        echinococcus: “Finally, nukes are certainly not repeat not genocidal weapons in the hands of the Zionists, for the good reason that they live on the land of the very people they desire to eliminate. ”

        Nuclear weapons, are, by all accounts, indiscriminate weapons of mass slaughter. Israel, by threatening to launch them at any European capital (with correspondingly high populations), which might take some action against Israel of which Israel might disapprove, is threatening mass slaughter against that European capital’s population. That’s close enough to genocidal.

        echinococcus: “As for rejecting all reasons for maintaining ambiguity, the Zionists’ deviousness is not limited by your imagination, or mine.”

        But, the bottom line is, what point does being ambiguous serve Israel?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 22, 2015, 9:03 pm

      “Thank Gd “

      Don’t take chances, and tempt the wrath of The Lord! Instead of even writing anything close to the Holy Name, use the sacred anagram “YMMV”.

      The Guy is sensitive about his real name. Can you blame Him? After all, as it says in the Bible “there’s some raw work pulled at the font from time to time, is there not?”

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      November 23, 2015, 12:01 am

      Who are the “radical islamic terrorists” surrounding Israel and want to see it destroyed? “It’s nuclear capabilities are included among the accomplishments that have allowed it to survive”. There’s a more simplified phrase instead of the overworked, ill-fitting “self hating Jews” and that is antizionist. Simple. It’s fascinating that you’re thanking God for WMD. Would that be the same God who gave his laws to the Hebrews, including: THOU SHALT NOT KILL; Thou shalt not steal; Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour and Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s. Is that the God you refer to. Is that same God, the creator of the universe and all life, is that God not greater than anything created by man, including man’s weapons of mass destruction? That God?

      Yes and the Palestianians, who created BDS, a peaceful movement that doesn’t call for anyone’s death or in itself result in the annihilation of anyone, that’s what you all are scared shitless of? That’s awesome!! So once again, a “Goliath” has been defeated by a little Dovid. GREAT JOB BDS!!!!!!!!!!

      Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope…build(ing) a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. Robert F. Kennedy

    • diasp0ra
      diasp0ra
      November 23, 2015, 8:16 am

      @Herchel

      When violence resistance is used, you whine.

      When peaceful resistance is used, you whine.

      Yet during all this period settlements have done nothing but expand, and the West Bank and Gaza have shrunken since 1967.

      What exactly do you want from us? What do you want? Do you want me to don an Israeli flag and sing Hatikvah to please you? What do you want? What form of resistance would be acceptable to you? Do we even have a right to question Israel?

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        November 23, 2015, 8:34 am

        I can’t say what one individual wants of another but all the logic of the situation says that the Zionists as a group wish for the Palestinians as a group one definite thing, which is to leave, but for a small minority to be an eternal witness that Z is not racism. Relocation grants, ceremonial handshakes and effusive (I can’t quite say sincere) wishes for a great new life in a new setting- after all the Istaelis did just that – will be available and advertised to an impressive (really quite sickening) degree. Either that will happen or Zionism will collapse in a heap or the status quo will just keep quoing along, spreading disaster right and left.

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 23, 2015, 1:41 pm

      “That is why the Arabs are now turning to BDS with the help of self hating Jews and other useful idiots.” hertshell

      better to be a useful idiot than than a useless one.

  12. hophmi
    hophmi
    November 23, 2015, 7:29 am

    The article is deeply misleading. The JCF donor advised funds are donor advised; it’s an easy way to set up an account for charitable giving without the red tape of setting up foundations and trust funds. Other than checking the legality of the contribution, JCF doesn’t do much else; the guidelines clearly say that people can give to sectarian and non-sectarian causes. People are really free to give to whomever they want as long as it’s legal.

    It’s just one hundred percent wrong to suggest that every donation someone makes from a donor fund has a stamp of approval from the Jewish community.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 23, 2015, 1:43 pm

      “the guidelines clearly say that people can give to sectarian and non-sectarian causes.”

      “Sectarian” and “non-sectarian”? What on earth is that supposed to mean? Could you give an example?

      What on earth, in terms of this discussion, is an example of a “sectarian” cause one can contribute to through the JCF? And “legal”, too?

      And gee, “sectarian” isn’t mentioned in the article, nor sects. You are the first to introduce that.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 23, 2015, 10:27 pm

        Let’s leave sects out of it. This is a family website.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 24, 2015, 12:10 am

        “Let’s leave sects out of it. This is a family website”

        That’s what I mean, In Israel, given the way religious marital law is imposed, it’s almost impossible to get married without involving sects.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 27, 2015, 2:39 pm

        “Hophmi” I am sure, will advise us on safe sects.

  13. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    November 23, 2015, 9:50 am

    Is ADL or its patron somehow connected to the group or to the donor who are subsidizing JCF, AFDI or the Clarion ?

    The subtle propaganda could still find a safe place ,an encouragement, or protection in the one sided narrative ,part expose’ or in the memory of the organizations supposed to be articulating an opposite position.

    Today’s NYT carries an editorial on Rubio’s hidden donors but does not mention the tangled relationship between Rubio,his donor,FDD, and the attackers forcing changes within Argentina financially and diplomatically .Neither is the donor’s ink to the WB settlement .NYT does show concern for the vital election and tax laws . But has no concern that the US foreign policy is being twisted and the international obligation is being violated by Rubio’s enablers .(Following Paul Singer’s Money, Argentina, and … – LobeLog
    https://lobelog.com/following-paul-singers-money-argentina-and-iran-co
    May 8, 2015 –

    Rubio’s Biggest Donor Funded West Bank Settlement …
    https://lobelog.com/rubios-biggest-donor-funded-west-bank-settlement/
    May 13, 2015)

    NYT’s observation :” as long as you know who’s behind the money…, I think that the sunlight we need”

    Government, media particularly WaPO still adhere to the Sarin gas story and to the carnage unleashed by mythical “barrel bomb” to stick it to Assad .

    Without the subtle distortions flooded by the media to the public there would have been no Iraq war and no Islamophobia .
    It still has unspent power and it is being used to shape the GOP ( Hilary included ) candidate’s MIddle East policy,attitude to refugees,and to furthering the unnecessary war efforts .

  14. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 23, 2015, 10:05 am

    On the subject of Islamophobia really looking forward to Nitay`s contribution when he attends the upcoming Climate Change summit in Paris. Of course he and his fellow Zionists dont give f..k about climate change. It is just another excuse for him to be seen to be mixing with and on the same platform as proper world leaders. Will be interesting to see how he weaves Iran, Palestinian “Incitement “, Hezbollah , Hamas , BDS and ISIS into the narrative ref the melting of the Polar ice caps and the threat to the greater crested spotted Patagonian penguin (all the recent terrorist attacks have not altered the Zionist world baddies rankings but Palestinian “incitement” is a strong new entry at No 2).

    Can`t use one of his cartoons I fear , the 45 second stare will be out of the question – he may just slip an onion into his pocket and at an appropriate point use it to induce a few tears when describing the daily horrors his beloved Uzi wielding fellow colonists have been facing since the dawn of mankind.

    • John O
      John O
      November 23, 2015, 12:39 pm

      He will have a lot to say about water purification technology and the cherry tomatoes it produces. Unless that warrant for his arrest is valid in Paris.

  15. Qualtrough
    Qualtrough
    November 23, 2015, 10:22 am

    Is it really necessary to post a photo with every article? I mean, at least in this case?

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 23, 2015, 1:46 pm

      “Is it really necessary to post a photo with every article? I mean, at least in this case?” Qualtrough

      Agreed.Maybe MW could include a “hide photo ” option for these extreme cases .

  16. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 23, 2015, 2:01 pm

    Trump has reached the point when he does not care if he is lying, inciting, or looking stupid for doing either. He is so delusional, he is making things up, demonizing innocent people.

    He is despicable to say the least.

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/just-when-it-seemed-trump-couldnt-stoop-any-lower?cid=sm_fb_maddow

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