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How Israel accidentally validated my activism

Israel/Palestine
on 76 Comments

It is the first time in the 6 hours out of 8 hours of my detainment that all three of my interrogators were in the room with me.  I’m mentally drained from the endless bombardment of psychologically manipulative techniques they have inflicted upon me including humiliation, good cop/bad cop, and withholding information about how long I would be there and where my friends were.  My personal journal, full of the most personal compositions, lies open on the desk, having been violated by the soldiers reading through it and laughing to each other about my personal life.  The walls are covered with Israeli flags and multiple computer screens around the room showing an article I co-wrote for the Columbia Spectator, the Facebook pages for Columbia’s JVP and SJP chapters, and my profile on Canary Mission, a site used to shame activists for caring about Palestinian Human Rights, calling us everything from demonizers to terrorist sympathizers.  I know my friend in the next room must be just as terrified, detained only for her Arab ethnicity and association with me.

One of the women looks at me with icy eyes and asks me, “So what exactly does JVP do?”

“We have speakers, Shabbat dinners, and Hanukkah parties.  We provide a space for people to celebrate their Judaism without having to conform to the zionist politics of Hillel, etc.”

The women laughs, but a cold laugh that does not extend to her eyes.

“You are lying.” She bangs her fist on the table for emphasis.

“No group that agrees with BDS would celebrate Shabbat or have Hanukkah parties.  Real Jewish people don’t support BDS.”

From the whole harrowing experience of crossing the Jordanian border into Jerusalem for the weekend, It is this line that stuck with me the most.  Here I was, at the Israeli border, seeing the full extent of the problem that JVP is trying to address.  By saying that anyone who criticizes Israel isn’t Jewish, Israel is trying to define Judaism as being inseparable from Zionism.  Now I am not an expert and I would never try to define Judaism either.  After all, I’m only part Jewish and I had a secular upbringing.  But I do know that Judaism can survive and thrive completely separate from the idea of Israel.  I have witnessed it in the places I have lived (San Francisco and New York City) and at Columbia, during our meetings where we discuss the Torah and family traditions, talk about things going on in the world, and plan exciting events and speakers.  I have felt more connected to Judaism during those times than I ever did during my three months in Israel two years previously.

The fact that the Israeli border patrol agents were aware of and feeling threatened by the activities of JVP and SJP at Columbia, means that our call for justice for the Palestinians is not going unheard.  And the fact that my being a human rights major is what prompted the questioning in the first place demonstrates that those border patrol agents believe that the study of human rights must include Palestine, therefore accepting that it is a human rights issue.

They are even inventing their own adversaries.  Several times the interrogators asked me how many times I “met” with BDS (Boycott Divestment and Sanctions) and accused me of secretly helping “BDS” as though they were some kind of secret militant group and not a tactic used by institutions throughout history to pressure countries into stop inhuman policies (most notably with South African apartheid).

And then there are the tactics they were using: messing with me psychologically, trying to get me to give them names of the people in JVP and SJP, reading through every text or email I’ve ever sent to anyone with an Arabic name.  It is McCarthyism and racism at its purest. And I’m sure I experienced nothing even close to how the Palestinians are treated every day.

After signing a piece of paper saying I would never enter the West Bank, would stay away from any political activity, and would leave the country after two days, I walked out of that room with the dismay at having experienced first hand the attempt to make Judaism and support for Israel mutually exclusive.  But I also walked out with hope, because I felt like every flier we stapled up in Butler library after they had been ripped off was worth it.  Across the world, in the interrogation rooms of the Allenby border and even in the taxis and Universities of Amman, people are talking about Columbia.  Nothing can make me more excited to get back to work on the Human Rights crises that effects and implicates us all.

About Marina Hansen

Marina Hansen is a Junior at Columbia University majoring in Human Rights with a specialization in Middle Eastern Studies.  Marina is a member of Columbia Jewish Voices for Peace and Columbia Students For Justice in Palestine.

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76 Responses

  1. amigo
    amigo
    July 8, 2016, 10:41 am

    I suspect if one wrote human right,s opponent in the “political activism” box , these morons would not see past “human rights” and proceed in the normal fashion.

    Any mention of human rights sends them scurrying into their rat holes to plan how to further trespass on someones human rights or freedom of movement.

    Light unto ,what exactly.

  2. silamcuz
    silamcuz
    July 8, 2016, 10:59 am

    There is no other group that comes close to the commitment to truth and justice as JVP in the US.

    When I first heard of them, I had my suspicions of their agenda, naturally as a result of being disappointed and betrayed by countless supposed progressive groups that claim to fight for Palestinian liberation. But day by day, from every protest they organize to the unending dissemination of dissent against Israel and pro-Israel groups without fear or apologism, I am quickly being pulled into their growing sphere of influence.

    Also, one cannot ignore the poetic justice taking place here, where the sole Jewish state in the world is being made accountable for each and every of its wrongdoings by people who proudly identify as Jewish. What started as a conflict between Arabs vs Jews, Judaism vs Islam, West vs East is transcending into a classic fight between truth and falsehood.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      July 9, 2016, 1:58 pm

      There is no other group that comes close to the commitment to truth and justice as JVP in the US

      Silamcuz, JVP is already in a very questionable position. While the Zionist entity goons ‘ attitude somehow incites me to sympathize with it, your endorsement totally damns it.

      • silamcuz
        silamcuz
        July 10, 2016, 6:01 am

        A resentful, hateful person like yourself is doomed to see only faults of anything and anyone. While you go around questioning all that is good, I will continue to have faith in people to do the right thing, not for others but ultimately for their own happiness.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 10, 2016, 12:40 pm

        “While you go around questioning all that is good, I will continue to have faith in people to do the right thing,”

        Gee, so all this crap was just more rhetorical diarrhea:

        “You behave the way you do because your mom gave birth to you in a country that prerequisites a certain set of values and behavioral attitudes, along with the genes that are responsible for the way your brain reacts external stimuli such as interaction with family, friends and colleagues as well as random strangers in your life. You also had no choice in neither the fact that you were born and raised where you were, or the specific DNA set that formed the basis of your personality and behavioral traits you inherited from your parents when you were conceived in your mother’s uterus.” “Simalcuz” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/silamcuz/?keyword=genetic#sthash.W6rOqa4l.dpuf

        Or does that tell us why the relations of peoples in the world is the way it is?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 10, 2016, 1:15 pm

        “A resentful, hateful person like yourself is doomed to see only faults of anything and anyone.” “Simalcuz”

        Violence is a perfectly natural, God-given right of reacting to injustice, in any form and in any scale. I have yet to know of a better way than to set a person straight through a old-fashioned slap, which is infinitely more efficient and effective compared to modern liberal techniques of preaching and explaining morality, right and wrong etc.” “Simalcuz”- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/silamcuz/?keyword=violence#sthash.zN6H3sej.dpuf

        Sort of a moody fella ain’t he? Her Majesty changes from day to day, and has a lot to say.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 10, 2016, 2:29 pm

        And be careful with “Simalcuz”.
        He slaps!

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        July 10, 2016, 4:43 pm

        Well, Silmacruz, I just can’t help it: any endorsement of even OK-looking things by confused propaganda plants and/or madmen automatically makes extremely suspect the object of it. Even if it were about my own mother. You’re dam tootin I am resentful and hateful.

        The obverse, though, doesn’t apply automatically, as any attack by official Zionists must be gone through with a fine-tooth comb. They are in the business of planting and accrediting their Fifth Column.

    • Eric
      Eric
      July 10, 2016, 4:22 pm

      Silamcuz: why refer to “echi” as resentful and hateful? Isn’t that a bit of an overreaction, only because he’s sceptical of JVP’s sincerity?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 10, 2016, 4:57 pm

        “Silamcuz: why refer to “echi” as resentful and hateful?”

        “Silamcuz is the guardian of the purity of the movement:

        “because of the actions of supposed anti-Zionists who in reality are just white supremacist co-opting a progressive, secular movement for their own motives.” “Silamcuz”
        http://mondoweiss.net/profile/silamcuz/?keyword=progressive#sthash.KkI4x1S6.dpuf

        What would we do without him?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        July 10, 2016, 11:37 pm

        Mooser,

        Don’t ask “What would we do without him?”: we are not without him.
        The right thing to do is leave the White Supremacist Anti-Zionists and join their non-White Supremacist enemy, i.e. the much maligned Zionists. Or apply to get accepted into the Blackface Anti-Zionists.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 11, 2016, 1:07 pm

        “Or apply to get accepted into the Blackface Anti-Zionists.”

        Or do a couple of tours with Lew Dockstader.
        Jolson did, and went on to national stardom.

  3. Steve Grover
    Steve Grover
    July 8, 2016, 11:08 am

    “One of the women looks at me with icy eyes and asks me, “So what exactly does JVP do?”

    “We have speakers, Shabbat dinners, and Hanukkah parties. We provide a space for people to celebrate their Judaism without having to conform to the zionist politics of Hillel, etc.”

    The women laughs, but a cold laugh that does not extend to her eyes.

    “You are lying.” She bangs her fist on the table for emphasis.

    “No group that agrees with BDS would celebrate Shabbat or have Hanukkah parties. Real Jewish people don’t support BDS.””

    Well you were lying. If you said JVP manipulates misguided Jewish youth to hate Israel at every opportunity by incorporating Jewish customs into your tactics among other tactics, then you wouldn’t have been lying.

    • amigo
      amigo
      July 8, 2016, 1:25 pm

      “Real Jewish people don’t support BDS.”sgrover

      Are you seriously claiming zionists are real Jews.

      Real Jews do not support land theft and extra judicial killings.Real Jews do not support the arrest and torture of children or their slaughter.Real Jews do not spray skunk juice on their fellow human beings.Real Jews do use the Holocaust as an excuse to commit war crimes .Real Jews do not call for the ethnic cleansing of another people .

      Real Jews have a future—zionists do not.

      • John O
        John O
        July 8, 2016, 1:36 pm

        Never forget: Steve Grover reads an MW article, then thinks to himself, “What’s the most offensive thing I can say to MW readers right now?” When he finds it, he posts it.

      • Steve Grover
        Steve Grover
        July 8, 2016, 3:39 pm

        I hope to say at every opportunity the most offensive thing one can say to a Mondoweiss reader: I like Israel and Jews!

      • James North
        James North
        July 8, 2016, 4:29 pm

        Mooser: There you go again with your sock puppet!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 8, 2016, 6:02 pm

        ” There you go again with your sock puppet!”

        Yup I’m in loco parantheses for “Steve Grover”.

        That’s how I display all the grudges and resentment I have toward Judaism.

      • eljay
        eljay
        July 8, 2016, 6:13 pm

        || Steve Grover: I hope to say at every opportunity the most offensive thing one can say to a Mondoweiss reader: I like Israel and Jews! ||

        That’s it? Man, that doesn’t even qualify as a “zinger”. How disappointing. :-(

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 8, 2016, 6:42 pm

        :” I like Israel and Jews!”

        And anybody who likes you will like them, too! Personal likability is the best advocate for Israel and Jews.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        July 9, 2016, 4:01 am

        Steve Grover: “I hope to say at every opportunity the most offensive thing one can say to a Mondoweiss reader: I like Israel and Jews!”

        Here’s the most offensive thing I could say to someone like you, Israel or the majority of its Jews:

        All men are created equal.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        July 9, 2016, 2:01 pm

        Grover cannot be offensive. He cannot even provoke.
        After all, he is a Zionist; therefore there is no conceivable limit to his depravity.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 9, 2016, 5:46 pm

        “Grover cannot be offensive. He cannot even provoke.”

        I try not to let him go too far, but “Grover” is my sock-puppet, I can use him to set up any comment or smart-ass remark I want to make. It’s like having a ‘straight man’ in a comedy duo.
        And using “Steve Grover” as my sock-puppet is an effective (if not quite honest) way to show people what Zionism does to a person’s character.

      • biggerjake
        biggerjake
        July 11, 2016, 12:13 pm

        “No group that agrees with BDS would celebrate Shabbat or have Hanukkah parties. Real Jewish people don’t support BDS.”” –

        This brings up an interesting question: Who are the “Real Jewish people”? According to this woman, supporting BDS disqualifies one from being a real Jewish person.

        Does one have to believe in God to be a real Jewish person?

        If someone was born to a Jewish family but changes to Christian, are they a real Jewish person?

        The State of Israel according to the Law of Return accepts people if their mother or a grandparent was Jewish but they are not Jewish under Jewish law. What if my mother was Jewish but converted to Christianity when she married my father? Am I still a real Jewish person?

        What if a Palestinian woman converts to Judaism, is she a real Jewish person? Are her children real Jewish people? Are her Grandchildren? Does she qualify under the Law of Return?

        Are Messianic Jews real Jewish people even though they don’t qualify under the Law of Return?

        Wouldn’t it be much easier and make more sense if there was a total separation of church and state and everyone had the same rights and privileges regardless of their religion, race, creed or color?

        Can you tell a real Jewish person by the way they look? Is the fact that someone is Jewish or not more important than the content of their character?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        July 11, 2016, 11:31 pm

        ‘This brings up an interesting question: Who are the “Real Jewish people”?’

        I have been given to understand that authentic Jews are those who speak Yiddish.

      • hophmi
        hophmi
        July 12, 2016, 10:54 am

        By who, RoHa?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 12, 2016, 11:36 am

        “I have been given to understand that authentic Jews are those who speak Yiddish.”

        Not quite, “RoHa”, if you will pardon a slight quibble.

        As I remember, “Yonah” said it was a “Yiddish accent” which conferred authenticity.

        (And, naturally, “Yonah” had no problem answering the question.)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 12, 2016, 11:38 am

        “Can you tell a real Jewish person by the way they look?”

        Well, it depends on what they are looking at.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        July 13, 2016, 3:11 am

        That should be “By whom?”

        I gained that impression from Yonah, but, as Mooser has noted, it is the accent, not the language, that is the critical point.

        Thank you Mooser. I stand corrected.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        July 13, 2016, 4:37 am

        Being raised Jewish in America is tied into a few things, including the immigrant experience. If someone is a Brit who moved to Australia there are resemblances, but because of the fact that Britain’s empire included Australia, the experience of eastern european jews moving to america is much more similar to italians moving to america than to a brit moving to australia.

        how does a child relate to jewishness? if a child is told, we are jews, we keep shabbos because we are jews, whereas in fact most of the surrounding jews do not keep shabbos, then identifying what it means to be a jew might get even trickier. one meets one’s grandparents who come from the old country and speak with a yiddish accent and one thinks, that is where i come from. other jews who speak in yiddish accents like one’s grandparents: that is where i come from.

        when a grown man looks back on the experience, i might call it authenticity, but it really has more to do with identity formation than anything else. maybe the professor can enlighten us about sources that deal with identity formation in grandchildren of immigrants. authenticity has a certain ring to it that is not present in the formulation identity formation and maybe i am misusing the word “authentic”, but to a kid grandchild to immigrant grandparents, there is something intangible about the exotic history of: we used to live there, we moved here (and everyone over there of us, who we left behind, was murdered, adds an extra twist.)

      • eljay
        eljay
        July 13, 2016, 7:24 am

        || yonah fredman: … to a kid grandchild to immigrant grandparents, there is something intangible about the exotic history of: we used to live there, we moved here … ||

        To a kid grandchild to people with no tangible ties to Palestine, there rightly should be something entirely intangible about the exotic mythology of: neither we nor generations of our ancestors are from there or ever lived there, but our religion says the land is ours.

        Somehow, Zio-supremacists are able to transform that mythology into a religion-supremacist “history” and, at the very same time, deny Palestinians from Palestine their very real and tangible history and ties to their homes and lands.

        That is just one small part of the immorality and injustice of Zio-supremacism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 13, 2016, 1:01 pm

        “Thank you Mooser. I stand corrected.”

        No, not like that. Replace short “a” with short”e”, to get started, and fracture your syntax a bit, like this:

        “Thenk you, already, Mooser. So I stend corrected, so nue so sue!”

        You’d be surprised how far a little authenticity goes in critical situations. Brush up your Yiddish accent, and they’ll all kow-tow, and how!

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        July 14, 2016, 12:16 am

        I’m trying, Mooser, but I just sound Seouth Efrican.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 8, 2016, 3:43 pm

      “If you said JVP manipulates misguided Jewish youth to hate Israel at every opportunity by incorporating Jewish customs into your tactics among other tactics, then you wouldn’t have been lying.”

      “Grover” why didn’t Zionism copyright those customs, holidays and rituals? Standard business precaution, as I’m sure you know. If you had gotten the standard copyright, all of that would have been covered, and used by nobody except Zionism. Judaism would have to pay royalties for their use, a licensing agreement which would have meant a tidy annual sum for Zionism. Or given away free as a loss-leader.
      It’s led to an awful, terrible situation, you know. People can claim that Judaism belongs to the world, not just the Jews. And even worse, any Jew can claim it belongs to them!
      Anyway, it may be too late, but I suggest you see legal counsel for advice on getting your property back.

      • Steve Grover
        Steve Grover
        July 8, 2016, 5:42 pm

        Mooser,
        No copyright is needed because everyone can tell that the Judaism of JVP is as authentic as Kevin Trudeau.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 8, 2016, 9:57 pm

        “everyone can tell that the Judaism of JVP is as authentic”

        Sure, sure, but what happens if JVP (and a lot of others, too!) starts fooling non-Jews, who can’t recognize true Jewish authenticity? And they begin thinking that JVP are the “real Jews” and the Zionists are Jews who are using religion as a cover for crimes?

        I mean, non-Jews, what do they know about Jewish authenticity? They probably think Max Blumenthal is a real Jew, that’s what they know.
        They will more likely judge by which group of Jews are more likely to hurt them.

      • Steve Grover
        Steve Grover
        July 9, 2016, 1:42 pm

        So what your saying Mooser is that people are victims of fraud. Fraud could be a lucrative endeavor until you get caught. Kevin Rudeau and his Federal Prosecutors would certainly agree with you.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 9, 2016, 2:50 pm

        “So what your saying Mooser is that people are victims of fraud. Fraud could be a lucrative endeavor until you get caught. “

        You know “Grover” you might be right. Preaching a Jewish religion that offers no material rewards, and no social advantages.
        What a fraud compared to real Judaism. With that, you get a country and an Army!

      • Steve Grover
        Steve Grover
        July 9, 2016, 3:56 pm

        Oh yeah Mooser. Before we had a country and an army it was sooooo much better. There must be at least 6 Million opinions about this that will never be heard.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        July 9, 2016, 8:10 pm

        the problem, it seems with Mr Grover, Mooser, is every time he taps his keyboard and posts it seems to distort the truth. Must be a Zionist keyboard!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 9, 2016, 11:56 pm

        “Before we had a country and an army it was sooooo much better”

        Doofus, you live in Chicago, Illinois. The USA. Better join AAA. If your car stalls on the Loop the IDF won’t come and tow you.
        Or maybe they come and helicopter you out if you end up in a bad neighborhood?
        Will the IDF commandos break you out if you get taken in on a drunken-driving charge? Or wreak private vengeance on any who dare to cross you?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 10, 2016, 12:11 am

        “There must be at least 6 Million opinions about this that will never be heard.”

        What is the connection? “Real Jews” are committed to the belief that the world owes the Jews an exclusive Palestine as reparation for the Holocaust? Don’t quite understand what you are expecting the six million to do for you now.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        July 10, 2016, 3:36 am

        Steve Grover: “Before we had a country and an army it was sooooo much better. There must be at least 6 Million opinions about this that will never be heard. ”

        So what did you country and army change except adding more killings, expulsion, dispossession, denationalization, discrimination and disenfrenchisement to humanity?

      • kev
        kev
        July 10, 2016, 1:03 pm

        Mooser,
        You’ve got it backwards, friend. Judaism, having existed long before Zionism, should revoke the use of their customs, holidays, and rituals by Zionists. The Zios are certainly causing a great deal of damage to the Judaism brand, and doing so willfully. The real pillars of the community and their Rabbis should come together and file suit against the Zios. I’m thinking “tortious interference” and “trademark infringement”, but I’m not a lawyer… maybe someone better trained can come up with a list of actions.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 10, 2016, 2:13 pm

        “Mooser, You’ve got it backwards, friend.

        Again? Oh well, I always do, get everything backwards, that is. Sorry.

        Maybe American Jews should file a class action suit. Class, baby, that’s what it’s all about. Wecan file suit to prove Zionism has class

      • kev
        kev
        July 10, 2016, 3:44 pm

        It’s a conundrum, Mooser, Zionism “has no class” yet in some ways it is all about class. Not sure how to address that comment, but certainly modern day Israel is a very class-based society. The racism and bigotry is not only against Palestinians. But in terms of a “class action suit” against Zionists, I don’t find it unthinkable. Again, I believe that Zionism is hurting Judaism because of the constant Zionist (and other) attempts to conflate the two.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 11, 2016, 2:15 pm

        ” damage to the Judaism brand,and doing so willfully.”

        The “Judaism brand”? I suppose you could call it that.

      • gamal
        gamal
        July 11, 2016, 6:23 pm

        “The “Judaism brand”? I suppose you could call it that.”

        despite the brand damage Americans are still buying Islam in droves which is worrying to the American Christian whose brand receives almost universal support a Christian salesman notes

        ” An American Muslim interviewed in a fairly recent book (Neighbors: Muslims in North America. Friendship Press, 1989) gave the following reasons when asked why African-Americans are turning to Islam.

        I have heard the same things from African-Americans in Philadelphia more than once. First on his list is racism in the church. “The discrimination that we feel makes Islam attractive to us because it’s a way of rejecting the culture that will not have us. In sociological terms I think that one of the reasons that many African-Americans go to Islam as opposed to

        Christianity–and many of us have been raised Christian–is that the people doing these things to us are also Christian.” How often does one not hear it said, “America is no more segregated than at eleven o’clock on Sunday mornings.” The second reason he gives is, I believe, also important in the conversion of Anglo-Americans.

        “Another factor–and this is part of what attracted me to Islam–is direction and discipline.” Our society is disintegrating for lack of discipline, especially in the city. Through its disciplined life-style, to many people Islam seems to hold out the promise of helping them get their lives back in order again.”

        and finally if you don’t need to get your shit together there is always this

        “Finally, there is a third factor which probably no one would ever mention explicitly, for obvious reasons, but which, I believe, is nevertheless important. This is the fact that Islam offers a conversion experience and the opportunity to get one’s life in order, without needing to confess ones sin and need of salvation. In fact, Islam makes quite a point of denying these truths. It tells people they do not need salvation; all they need is to follow the “guidance” of God’s law, and they will make it to heaven. That is something the natural man likes to hear.”

        “the natural man likes” Islam, Islamicize its natural. (De-Islamicization not currently available)

        http://www1.cbn.com/spirituallife/why-are-so-many-westerners-converting-to-islam

      • kev
        kev
        July 11, 2016, 7:01 pm

        Sorry, Mooser, if you took my comments wrong. But, yes, I do believe that modern Judaism has a brand, just as Catholicism has a brand, Protestants have a brand, Baptists and Mormons and Jehova’s Witnesses have a brand, Evangelicals have a brand, and damn sure the Televangelists and MegaChurch Christians have brands. I do not intend this to be some sort of denigration of Judaism, Jewish people, or whatever, but in the modern era it all seems to be “brand conscious”. In that light, yes, I do believe that what Zionists are doing actually harms the perception of Judaism among not only the international community and “gentiles”, but even among “Diaspora Jews”. In other words, they are harming “the brand”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 12, 2016, 11:14 am

        “But, yes, I do believe that modern Judaism has a brand”

        Well, I guess it’s more of a ‘cut’ than a brand. And sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between a religion and a cut.
        To be a cut above you need a cut below.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      July 11, 2016, 10:28 am

      Steve Grover

      Patent nonsense.

      All Jewish youth have to do to “hate Israel” is watch and read the news. It prompts them to seek out reliable, well documented and duly foot-noted scholarly sources that convey the ugly truth of Zionism. Indeed, it must be sheer agony for them to learn of the horrors Israel has perpetrated against Palestinians for over 68 years and to realize that they have been duped by Zionists since childhood. The good news is that their numbers are increasing everyday.

  4. eljay
    eljay
    July 8, 2016, 1:45 pm

    … The women laughs, but a cold laugh that does not extend to her eyes.

    “You are lying.” She bangs her fist on the table for emphasis.

    “No group that agrees with BDS would celebrate Shabbat or have Hanukkah parties. Real Jewish people don’t support BDS.” …

    Is this an official definition of who is / is not a Jew, or is this yet another case of yet another Zio-supremacist being anti-Semitic?

  5. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    July 8, 2016, 2:28 pm

    Are you now or have you ever been a supporter of the BDS movement ?

    Zionism = McCarthyism.

    Funny old world isn`t it

  6. Kay24
    Kay24
    July 8, 2016, 6:41 pm

    So Tzipi Livni was once again protected by the British government. She can continue to kill and steal from Palestinians, and remain a war criminal. The UK and the US are for killing civilians.

    “For the fourth time in seven years, the British government has intervened to protect Tzipi Livni, Israel’s former foreign minister, from a possible a war crimes investigation into her role in Israel’s attack on the Gaza Strip in December 2008.

    Last week, ahead of her planned trip to London for a conference organized by the Tel Aviv newspaper Haaretz, Scotland Yard’s War Crimes Unit telephoned Livni to invite her to come in for a voluntary police interview.

    After receiving the summons, Israel initiated “diplomatic contact” with Britain, according to Haaretz, and the UK’s Foreign Secretary arranged for Livni to receive, once again, the status of a “special diplomatic assignment.”

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/charlotte-silver/uk-thwarts-war-crimes-probe-former-israeli-minister

  7. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    July 9, 2016, 3:44 pm

    Just listened to an NPR podcast (freakanomicsradio.com) about boycotts, in general, and South Africa specifically. Major study by EU academic group not affiliated with pro I. or pro P. Worldwide coordinated effort to divest from SA had absolutely no effect on the apartheid economy. They didn’t believe it and went through it again. No effect other then publicity.
    Conclusion: boycotts have no economic ability to bring a strong nation or its government, regime, dictator , etc to their knees. Nada. Nothing.

    Sometimes boycotts of specific companies can work if targeted and publicized properly. E.g. Monsanto. Montgomery Bus boycott, Chik-filet.But mostly drawing attention and not economic.
    So why do the two American billionaires think it necessary to hold aa big conference on how to deal with bds.? Why would it take an academic study to inform two people who should have know exactly how little the international boycott of SA apartheid regime had on stock prices then and on Israeli stocks now? Even with my ‘zio-supremacist, lol’ view i would ask Saban to explain. All smoke, no fire? (which ironically applies to bds aas well)
    Listen to podcast for more detailed explanation for how little boycotts change things as well as some opinions and studies that show some of the very few ways an organized boycott can have an effect.

    @annie
    Don’t have source to ‘link’ to but the show was cast as:

    freakanomicsradio.com.

    i would say a anybody intetested in boycotts would find the show pertinent whatevet political views one holds. Wasnt looking for anti-bds material. Just heard show by chance so no accusations. just putting out info on wether boycotts work, ever.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      July 10, 2016, 3:39 am

      Yep, BDS doesn’t work. That’s why Apartheid South Africa still exists.

      • Walker
        Walker
        July 10, 2016, 2:44 pm

        +1

        That’s also why Israel is so terrified by the very phrase “BDS”.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 10, 2016, 3:49 pm

        Why don’t you listen before you comment. It’s not my idea and not the idea of anybody who was pro-israel or pro apartheid. Or don’t listen and stay in your far left tyrannical dream world

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        July 12, 2016, 8:57 am

        DaBakr: “… and stay in your far left tyrannical dream world”

        ROFL. What you call “far left tyrannical dream world” is mainstream reality of democracies in the post Nazi era. That’s how far right tyrannical your reality is.

        Hitler could only commit his atrocities after he erased the left. I that your dream, too?

      • otc
        otc
        July 13, 2016, 8:24 pm

        Norman Finkelstein has made the case that, historically, BDS has only worked when states have supported it. Civil society, on its own, is not sufficient. (I guess States would represent the Sanctions part). The African Union first had to get involved, which then brought in more countries and international organizations.

        I recently watched a talk with NF and Tariq Ali. Ali made the claim that what really brought down SA was the defeat of its army by the Cubans in Angola.. I haven’t looked into this subject very much but that seemed like an unusual interpretation.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 15, 2016, 3:54 am

        @Dn

        but Dan Dan Dan, it wasn’t civil society getting involved anymore then it was foreign goats getting involved. The problem-according to the professors who did the research and study was that it involved the trans-national corporations and huge conglomerates that Apartheid South Africa owned or traded with. If there was a downturn brought on by factors involving resistance and worldwide scorn there would ALWAYS be somebody willing to sell the devalued shares and someone willing to buy at a bargain before they shot up again. In other words-the markets do not play by yje same political or social rules that so-called human rights org’s. do.

        It too vast a subject to go into what forces other then ‘boycott’ where in play at a single time in history that brought de Klerk to the decision it was time to leave. And in fact-the nation deKlerk stepped do2n from was in financially good shape. It would be the next ten years that have proven so difficult to grasp ways in which corruption can be tackled and services restored to those who expected them in the first place

      • otc
        otc
        July 15, 2016, 8:56 pm

        “but Dan Dan Dan, it wasn’t civil society getting involved anymore then it was foreign goats getting involved”

        I didn’t say it was – I don’t have enough expertise to have a strong opinion.

        But you haven’t proved that it wasn’t, or countered NF’s point.
        The study you cited was limited to the effects on the economy. If the study is correct then , since the economy wasn’t damaged, other factors must have led to the regime folding and De Klerk leaving – which you’ve said is too vast a subject to go into.

        You are assuming that the only effects of a boycott are economic.
        I don’t believe the study addresses (correct me if I’m wrong) the non-economic effects of a boycott – ostracism, exclusion from international and professional organizations. etc, that might have had an impact.

        It also doesn’t address the extent to which a civil society B/D campaign influenced govt’s to put diplomatic pressure on SA, or the effect international sanctions could have on influential individuals (that wouldn’t be noticed in the aggregate economic statistics).

        Unless you can demonstrate that non of the tactics I mentioned were put into place, or had an effect, you really can’t conclude that it wasn’t “anymore then it was foreign goats getting involved”

    • Eric
      Eric
      July 10, 2016, 4:01 pm

      Debakr: if boycotts didn’t put economic pressure on South Africa, why did whites voluntarily give up power? Were they just being nice?

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 12, 2016, 1:02 pm

        As I said, listen to the podcast from NPR or freakanomicsradio.com on boycotts and you might learn exactly why they didn’t work for SA. I didn’t make up the EU funded academic study which was not focused on the I/p conflict and seemed to have no political position. But your so certain, so don’t listen and remain a true believer

    • Qualtrough
      Qualtrough
      July 10, 2016, 10:56 pm

      DaBakr – Glad that’s settled. I hope you are busy now letting your friends living in JSIL and elsewhere know that they are totally wasting their time and money on all those anti-BDS efforts!

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      July 11, 2016, 10:36 am

      DaBakr

      Reality:
      http://www.timesofisrael.com/dysfunctional-israeli-leadership-failing-utterly-in-battle-against-bds-state-watchdog-warns/

      Times of Israel – May 24, 2016

      EXCERPT:
      “Dysfunctional Israeli leadership failing utterly in battle against BDS, state watchdog warns

      “Highlighting dismal propaganda performance during 2014 war, comptroller cites lack of overall strategy, absent funding, divisions between ministries, failure to coordinate with IDF.”

      Patrick Martin, Canada’s Globe and Mail correspondent in Israel:
      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/parliament-votes-to-reject-campaign-to-boycott-israel/article28863810/

      Globe and Mail, Feb. 23/16

      EXCERPT:
      “Israel is increasingly concerned with the successes of the boycott and divestment efforts. In 2014, foreign direct investment in Israel dropped 46 per cent from the previous year, in part, a United Nations report said, because of BDS efforts.

      “These initiatives are taking hold at North American universities, churches and trade unions, where many institutions are dropping investments in Israel or Israel-connected companies. In Europe where hundreds of academics and entertainers are personally boycotting Israel, major companies such as telecom Orange and water company Veolia are pulling out of Israeli ventures, and some EU governments are putting warning labels on products produced in Israeli West Bank settlements.”

      http://www.haaretz.com/.premium-1.719064?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
      “Israeli Exports Slump to Seven-year April Low. Harel says weak trade performance to cut 2016 economic growth outlook.”
      By Moti Bassok – May 11, 2016

      EXCERPT:
      “Israel’s deteriorating export performance hit a new low last month, as merchandise exports fell to their lowest April total since 2009, the Central Bureau of Statistics reported on Tuesday….”

      https://electronicintifada.net/content/ireland-latest-eu-state-defend-bds/16866
      Electronic Intifada – 28 May 2016
      Ireland latest EU state to defend BDS

      http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/In-huge-blow-to-Israel-Netherlands-declares-BDS-free-speech-455162
      Jerusalem Post – 05/26/2016
      In huge blow to Israel, Netherlands declares BDS ‘free speech’

      https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/french-court-overturns-illegal-ban-bds-event
      Electronic Intifada – 31 May 2016
      French court overturns “illegal” ban on BDS event

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 12, 2016, 1:09 pm

        @m

        According to the study in the podcast I referred to the only effect that boycott had that was significant was I the publicity department. So boycotts may very well work to bring negative publicity to the cause but do not succeed in bringing down the economy of the power they are directed at. If you want to play games and cite articles completely blind to the study you can happily remain the mediocre minded true believers I always said you were

    • Boo
      Boo
      July 11, 2016, 11:08 am

      “boycotts have no economic ability to bring a strong nation or its government, regime, dictator , etc to their knees. Nada. Nothing.”

      So in short, then, the Israeli government isn’t terrified of a mouse — it’s terrified of a mouse’s shadow.

      Gee, who’d’ve guessed? Such shtarkers, such cravenness!

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 12, 2016, 1:12 pm

        Listen and learn something smartass

      • amigo
        amigo
        July 12, 2016, 4:34 pm

        “Listen and learn something smartass” duh baker

        Don,t You mean “Smart Ass” , Alexander ?.

  8. rafa santisteban
    rafa santisteban
    July 9, 2016, 3:49 pm

    How about

    “Real Jews don’t persecute other peoples like the Jews were persecuted”

  9. inbound39
    inbound39
    July 9, 2016, 8:05 pm

    Kay24….this shows beyond doubt what a bunch of hypocrites the Cameron Government is. They claim to see the Two State Solution as the only option and support the Geneva Convention and the UN Charter and openly state settlements are illegal and yet they grant Diplomatic Immunity to a known Israeli war criminal like Livni. The UK needs to grow a pair as does the United States and call Israel what it is……an International Offence.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      July 10, 2016, 6:41 am

      The US and the UK continue to protect and support a rogue nation that has violated many international laws and is not adhering to UN resolutions. What they say is one thing, what they do is another.
      Shame on us all.

  10. Mooser
    Mooser
    July 10, 2016, 1:45 pm

    This is a great step forward in Israel’s security.
    The “Cry Horowitz, and they let you slip through” policy was bound to fail.
    Israel was leaving an wide-open door to activism or worse getting into the country, and Israel’s security needs preclude any such laxness. Shalom must be replaced by ” you shall not”. You got to be real, to get on Israel’s real estate.

  11. lonely rico
    lonely rico
    July 10, 2016, 7:37 pm

    >DaBakr

    Sometimes boycotts of specific companies can work if targeted and publicized properly.

    Sometimes boycotts of specific (racist, violent, cruel, insane) states,
    can work if targeted and publicized properly.

    For the Zionist state boycott is working, the free ride is coming to an end, and Saban’s and Adelson’s gold will not be enough to reverse the tide.

    In passing DaB, how are your Sodastream holdings doing ?

    Quick look-see –

    July 2011 $74.44
    July 2016 $23.35

    Down $51.09
    -68.63%

    Ouf – your (poisonous) Zionism is starting to look costly.

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