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Beinart’s detention at airport is said to signal new Israeli policy re American Jewish dissenters

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The detention of Peter Beinart for an hour of political questioning at Ben Gurion airport yesterday as he and his family arrived to attend a bat mitzvah is roiling the Jewish world today. Beinart is a strong Zionist. And today the Prime Minister himself rushed out an unusual statement in English saying he had “immediately” looked into Beinart’s detention. (“He was told it was an administrative mistake. Israel is an open society which welcomes all – critics and supporters alike.”)

Of course detentions are nothing new at Israeli ports, and we have reported on countless incidents in which Palestinian activists have been deported. Here a young American schoolteacher denied entry for arbitrary reasons. Last year a young skateboarder was interrogated aggressively for eight hours before being deported.

But Beinart is a Zionist Jewish writer who has become more and more critical of Israel in the last 10 years, and his detention is causing alarm in American Zionist circles about the political culture of the country they love. “This is crazy,” writes a prominent neoconservative. J Street says the Beinart treatment is part of an Israeli government pattern of targeting American Jews, which is politically dangerous for Zionism:

the Israeli government is shamefully signaling its contempt for the beliefs of progressive American Jews and for the norms of liberal democracy. As with the recently passed nation-state law, they are alienating supporters of Israel around the world.

Daniel Gordis, a conservative Zionist, shares the concern that Israel is alienating Jewish opinion:

Although it is hard to know exactly who is issuing directives to the security services on this issue, the clumsiness leads one to suspect there is an unstated goal. It seems likely that Netanyahu has decided to stoke the embers of “Zionists versus Israel’s enemies” discourse, which will win him points with the right-wing factions of Israeli society he needs to win the next elections.

Gershom Gorenberg, a liberal Zionist writer, is also alarmed by the detentions of Jews:

Mr. Netanyahu, you are keeping lists of people whose opinions you don’t like. …Seriously, Mr. Netanyahu, I have lived here for 41 years, raised 3 children here, and I love my country. But you are not making me or people with my concerns about your government feel welcome.

The alleged pattern includes a few earlier Jewish detentions. On August 5, Simone Zimmerman of IfNotNow and the Sanders campaign tweeted that she and her friend Abby Kirschbaum were detained for four hours at the Taba crossing from Egypt, and were asked about their political views.

We are being questioned solely about our political opinions and activities vis a vis Palestinians esp in the occupied territories… [Later] We’re out. That was four hours of rounds of interrogation, waiting and mostly attempted intimidation centering on our connections to Palestinians.

Before that it was author Moriel Rothman-Zecher, who was detained and questioned over his actions in the territories with Breaking the Silence and All That’s Left, and told by a security official that his grilling was a “warning.” (“Just listen to my warning. Make sure not to go down the slippery slope. You can go now.”) Rothman-Zecher was plainly disturbed by the treatment, and sees a pattern of targeting dissent. 

A month ago it was Meyer Koplow, a leading American donor to Israel who is on establishment boards, because he had a copy of This Week in Palestine in his luggage. He’d just been on a liberal Zionist tour that included the territories. Times of Israel:

“The most disturbing question she asked me, and she asked me more than once, was what was I going to do with the information I learned in the territories,” Koplow said. “What business is it of security at departure as to what I’m thinking or what I might say?”

Dani Dayan, the Israeli consul general in New York, later apologized to Koplow for his treatment but justified the questioning on security grounds.

Israel has long targeted Jewish dissenters. Jews who have been balked by Israel include: Ariel Gold, a supporter of BDS prevented from entering last month; Norman Finkelstein, who was arrested in 2008 and deported, for visiting a human rights activist (Finkelstein was told he can’t come back for ten years); Lillian Rosengarten, author and Holocaust survivor, deported in 2010 for trying to enter Gaza in the freedom flotilla; and Noam Chomsky, prevented from entering the West Bank in 2010, after hours of questioning. The Ministry of Interior said later that Chomsky’s refusal had been a mistake.

Beinart’s detention is shining a light on the treatment of others. Elizabeth Tsurkov:

The uproar about ‘s questioning at Ben Gurion Airport forced Netanyahu to come out with this statement. When people of Arab descent & non-Zionist Jews were questioned & even deported, he kept mum

Yousef Munayyer notes that Netanyahu has cracked down long ago on other dissenters, including those supporting BDS (Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions), so who is he to talk about democracy.

This is laughable from the head of a government leading, coordinating and pumping money into a world wide repression effort against dissenters.

Rebecca Vilkomerson of Jewish Voice for Peace points out that the action is part of a longstanding pattern.

translation of “administrative mistake”: when actual ongoing undemocratic policies are noticed by the world. The nation state bill and the response to it is on the same continuum

And Abby Kirschbaum noted last week after her questioning, “the level of surveillance and intimidation we experienced tonight was unsettling, but it is a fraction of the lived reality for the Palestinians I know and am proud to work with.”

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About Philip Weiss

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87 Responses

  1. Keith
    Keith
    August 13, 2018, 6:06 pm

    PHIL- “The detention of Peter Beinart for an hour of political questioning at Ben Gurion airport yesterday as he and his family arrived to attend a bat mitzvah is roiling the Jewish world today.”

    Perhaps it is time for Zionists to reconsider Argentina?

  2. echinococcus
    echinococcus
    August 13, 2018, 7:13 pm

    …detention of Peter Beinart for an hour of political questioning at Ben Gurion airport yesterday as he and his family arrived to attend a bat mitzvah is roiling the Jewish world

    Serves him right. The Zionazis are starting to enforce the boycott themselves; with the current government no need for us to even work to make the tribals understand that the boycott starts with avoiding private travel to the Zionist entity! That’s also why it’s far better to have the stupid in power.

    Why does Weiss discuss this as if personal visits to officially invader-settled areas (like those by this Beinart, or Gold etc.) were the same as travel to meet legitimate Palestinians (see Finkelstein and Chomsky trips)?

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      August 13, 2018, 8:41 pm

      @echinococcus

      C’mon you must be able to see that the denial of people such as Finkelstein, etc will not have the same impact on the psyche of US supporters as people like Beinart, etc would.

      The support of a major power is critical to Israel. This will more than likely erode that support base.

      Not that Israel cares a whit about the US as long as they can sign up Russia (who netty has been getting real pals with lately) or the Chinese to be their sugar daddy.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 13, 2018, 10:29 pm

        Old Geezer,

        Of course the banning of Beinart or even Ariel Gold, etc., will have the effect you describe in the US; I wasn’t suggesting anything different. That’s why I say more power to the Obtuse Branch of the Zionazis. Better they than the sleek Beinart types, any day! They are enforcing the boycott themselves and I remain thankfully yours.

        But then, that is surely not a reason for throwing tribals who travel to meet invaders in the same pot as Chomsky or Finkelstein, who were not traveling to do that.

      • genesto
        genesto
        August 14, 2018, 4:34 pm

        Question is, will eroding that support base really make any difference in the long run? We’d all like to believe it will. But, after reading an article of how the Israeli economy is booming despite its stature in the world falling, I’m not so sure anymore.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 15, 2018, 11:34 am

        @genesto

        I’m not sure there was ever a reason to believe that BDS could cause any overall damage to Israel’s economy. The boycott of South Africa didn’t do any heavy damage.

        The cultural , athletic and educational boycotts will/can have much greater impacts. And the economic boycott can cause damage in certain sectors, make international financing more difficult, etc.

        The boycott’s greatest impact is on raising awareness of the situation around the world. And on prestige and esteem for Israel in the world. These are not insignificant issues, as the GoI recognizes by it’s efforts to halt it. It’s responses, particularly the hysterical and over the top ones, only serve to even even further educate the general public on the situation and demonstrate the irrationality that the Palestinians have to cope with. BDS is a political movement and it’s on that level that it’s success or failure will occur. Boycott is only a preliminary step. Divestment is beginning to occur even if investment is going up. By that I mean some banks are beginning to stop investing even if other banks are currently increasing their stake. That will spread. Sanctions will eventually start to be put in place.

        The calls for a boycott of South Africa began in 1959. It’s a long term game unless Israel comes to it’s senses and changes into a positive moral force adhering to international law. There’s no sign that is near to happening. As Reuben Rivlin said, Israel is a very sick society.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        August 18, 2018, 1:30 am

        as long as they can sign up Russia (who netty has been getting real pals with lately)

        Appearances notwithstanding, I wouldn’t be so sure about the chumminess here. Russia does what it has to do to keep Israel calm about Syria. They got essentially a guarantee that they will not interfere when the operation by the SAA to recover Daraa province was going on. That took some doing.

        The way Russian do things is “first things first”. Their main purpose now is to secure Syria – especially all the main population centers. It may seem like they are giving way to israel, but everyone knows that these two – israel and Russia – are heading towards a conflict. A major one over Iran. That’s why yahoo keeps taking little trips to Moscow. And he keeps receiving more vague “assurances’ that Iran will not get “too close”, which is left to be defined by each party as they wish.

        FWIW, some have already pointed out that the current villification of Russia, and Putin in particular, that’s part of the propaganda machine in the US, has tacit israeli – and Jewish support (no, not from the progressive wing, of course, which recognizes the Muh Russia thing to be the hoax that it is). There is a strong “behind the scenes” anti-Russia PR effort that Israeli elements are part of. Right along with many from the Russian-Jewish-American community. They all have their reasons of course, but ultimately, israel knows that it is up to Russia – and with it China – to circumscribe its dire plans vis-a-vis Iran. So they know that it was Russia that upended their plans (concoted with Saudi-Arabia/US/Qatar with Turkey as a side party) about regime change in Syria. They have seen the military capabilities Russia displayed in Syria as well as the general competence demonstrated by its strategic approach, where military success is accompanied by diplomatic/reconciliation efforts.

        So Israeli planners know very well (at least as well as I do) that ultimately Russia is the biggest impediment to their nefarious plans. A Russia supported by China is a formidable adversary, of course (and the Chinese are busy playing their own little games re israel, but that’s another story). But right now everyone is in a state of pause.

        An aside: the pause will be broken once Turkey decides whether it wants to change camps. That’s why the idlib and Lathakia plans are on hold (or seem to be). naturally, Trump administration is doing what it can to push Turkey away, so waiting seems by far the wisest policy.

  3. JWalters
    JWalters
    August 13, 2018, 7:37 pm

    American Jews are discovering that in reality their beloved Uncle Israel is and always has been a serial abuser.

    For new Mondoweiss readers, this reality has been investigated and written about eloquently by Israeli-born, Jewish therapist Avigail Abarbanel in the following two articles (among others).
    “It’s time for American Jews to recognize they have been duped”
    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/american-recognize-duped
    “Why I left the cult”
    https://mondoweiss.net/2016/10/why-i-left-the-cult

    • Avigail
      Avigail
      August 15, 2018, 8:48 am

      Thank you for the mention @JWalters. Please also note this article from 20017 about the Israeli police state, which was published in Electronic Intifada: https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-police-state/7049

      As I said on FB today, back when I wrote that article 11 years ago, I don’t think many people took it too seriously. Fast forwarding to Beinart’s story and the more recent one by Reza Aslan who was inspired to speak up by Beinart’s experience everyone can see it more clearly. A.

      • Boomer
        Boomer
        August 16, 2018, 2:08 pm

        Avigail, thanks for the link to your 2017 article. While on that site, I also found something of interest to me, as an American. It shows the role played by some American entities in supporting censorship of pro-Palestinian voices. I imagine a lot of this goes on, and a lot more will in the future:

        https://electronicintifada.net/content/paypal-censors-journalists-who-criticize-israel/25096

      • JWalters
        JWalters
        August 28, 2018, 7:01 pm

        Avigail, thanks for that link. I’ve read the article and saved the link.

  4. eljay
    eljay
    August 13, 2018, 8:41 pm

    It must suck for a supremacist to find out he’s not supremacist enough for the supremacist state he loves and believes in.  :-(

    Maybe Beinart could maim or kill a few Gaza Palestinians to bolster his cred. (If he’s worried about the optics, he can cry after he shoots.) This may be tough for him to do, but no-one ever said aggressor-victimhood was an easy gig…

    • Avigail
      Avigail
      August 23, 2018, 8:56 am

      @eljay— deliciously sarcastic. Not my personal style but I like it.

  5. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    August 13, 2018, 10:14 pm

    RE: “Beinart’s detention at airport is said to signal new Israeli policy re American Jewish dissenters”

    SEE: “Israel Is Not a Liberal Democracy” | Paul R. Pillar | NationalInterest.org | Aug. 12, 2018
    Israel does not share many of the most important values of Western liberal democracies, including the United States.

    [EXCERPT] Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared a “defining moment in the annals of Zionism and the annals of the state of Israel” when the Knesset enacted earlier this month a basic law (having constitutional status in Israel) making the right of national self-determination “unique to the Jewish people” and not applicable to all citizens. The law further enshrined religiously based discrimination, including a clause that points to priority for Jewish-only communities by declaring “the development of Jewish settlement as a national value” and promising “to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation.”

    The law has been a subject of much controversy in Israel. It passed the Knesset by the narrow margin of sixty-two to fifty-five. Opponents argue that it constitutes a step away from democracy. But this was one more item on the agenda of the ruling right-wing coalition that, given the rightward move in Israeli politics in recent years, the coalition was able to push through.

    However much sympathy one may have for the opponents, they are not only on the losing side of an Israeli political trend but also trying to square a circle. There always has been an inherent and fundamental tension between the idea of Israel as a democracy and the concept of giving preferential treatment to a single religious or ethnic group over all others.

    Major proponents of the new law recognize this, and some of them have been disarmingly frank about it. The hardline Minister of Justice, Ayelet Shaked, has explicitly disparaged the idea that Israel should respect universal values. She has stated openly that if there is a choice between maintaining the Jewish majority and Jewish character of Israel and observing human rights, it is human rights that should be sacrificed. Or take it from the most influential big-money backer of Netanyahu and of American support for Netanyahu’s policies: casino magnate Sheldon Adelson. At a conference in 2014 that discussed implications of perpetual Israeli occupation or annexation of the West Bank without giving Palestinian residents the right to vote, Adelson declared , “Israel isn’t going to be a democratic state. So what?” . . .

    ENTIRE COMMENTARY – https://nationalinterest.org/blog/paul-pillar/israel-not-liberal-democracy-28392

  6. Emet
    Emet
    August 14, 2018, 5:44 am

    I am not saying that Israel cannot be criticized but any Jew who’s livelihood is fulfilled by the need and even requirement to criticize Israel on a daily weekly or even monthly basis, is a Jew how holds little to no integrity. This goes for Weiss and Beinart. These Jews have no place in Israel and had better get used to the fact.

    • eljay
      eljay
      August 14, 2018, 8:19 am

      || Emet: I am not saying that Israel cannot be criticized … ||

      If you were saying that, you’d look pretty foolish.

      || … but any Jew who’s livelihood is fulfilled by the need and even requirement to criticize Israel on a daily weekly or even monthly basis, is a Jew how holds little to no integrity. … ||

      integrity: The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.

      Zionists sure do love re-defining words. Criticizing injustice and immorality “on a daily weekly or even monthly basis” is consistent with having integrity. Being a hateful and immoral supremacist – even just a plain old Jewish supremacist (Zionist) – is not.

    • JohnSmith
      JohnSmith
      August 14, 2018, 8:24 am

      Duuh. I’m sure Mr. Weiss and any other sane person who cares about human rights would be happy to never have any Israeli human rights abuses to report on.

      Duuh. No one is avid to do the reporting on this. It’s a sad duty.

      What about a human being who has some “need [or] even requirement” to constantly defend Nazis? Where’s the integrity in that?

      • Emet
        Emet
        August 14, 2018, 6:03 pm

        Ask Arabs living in Israel, in private conversations of course, if they want to live under Arab rule (Palestinian Authority) and you will get your answer about human rights abuses. How do these same Arabs enjoy the highest level of freedom and quality of life compared to their equivalent brothers in Muslim controlled countries with all these so called abuses going on?

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 15, 2018, 4:37 am

        Emet: “Ask Arabs living in Israel, in private conversations of course, if they want to live under Arab rule (Palestinian Authority) and you will get your answer about human rights abuses. ”

        To live under the rule of the PA means to live under Israel’s occupation terror and military law Nobody wants to enjoy even less rights.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      August 14, 2018, 10:36 am

      @Emet

      For your much needed edification:

      Just received from a Canadian friend.

      A righteous and very well informed Jew steps forth and tells the ugly truth:

      https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/palestine-l/mDI7SMY2Avo

      “Coming to terms with my Jewish upbringing” by Tsiporah Grignon, August, 2018

      EXCERPTS:
      “My story of growing up Jewish in Canada is similar to my peers in America and England, perhaps in other western democracies. We were taught to feel immense pride in Israel.

      “That pride has dissolved for many. In the words of psychologist Dr. Gabor Mate: ‘The beautiful dream of Israel has become a nightmare.’

      “From a rising awareness of political realities that keep all planetary citizens on edge, I realized it was time for me to stop avoiding my Jewish heritage – for I had come to the inevitable conclusion that my Jewish upbringing has played a key role in the seemingly intractable Israel/Palestine conflict. So I set out to learn ‘the other narrative’ – through reading books and articles by Palestinian and international historians, journalists, conscious writers of the political arts including an Israeli general’s son, and eyewitness accounts from those who live under terrible living conditions in Palestine.

      “First to understand is that the focus of this conflict has been two different groups wanting to live on the same piece of real estate. When Israel became a state in 1948, the land was divided, and Palestinians were given specific areas to inhabit – the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. Since that time, Israel has purposefully fragmented Palestinian territory in the West Bank – taking land that was to be Palestine through building Israeli settlements, illegal according to international law, which together with illegal outposts and Jewish only roads, covers close to 60% of the West Bank. It is eye-opening to see a map of land left for Palestinians.

      “Besides having their land and water sources stolen, Palestinian lives are controlled completely by a harsh military occupation, by one of the world’s mightiest military powers. To witness what Palestinians must endure on a daily basis is heartbreaking. It is indeed a nightmare. In today’s world of instant online media, because any citizen armed with a cell phone can document on site developments, the world can see what Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) were ordered by their military superiors to do.

      “It is shocking to see images of IDF soldiers spraying raw sewage onto Palestinian homes in the West Bank. One can imagine the humiliation Palestinians feel as they wait in long lines at checkpoints on their way to work or school, caged like animals, where any soldier can arbitrarily deny the Palestinian to pass through the checkpoint despite having the correct permit required by Israeli occupation policy. And we can see the anguish of a Palestinian woman desperately clinging to a productive olive tree, in the wild hope of saving it from being destroyed by the IDF. As global food supply becomes increasingly jeopardized due to climate change, I believe that purposeful destruction of a centuries old source of food is as much a criminal act as cruelty to sentient beings.

      “Palestinians in East Jerusalem must qualify for legal status in order to formally work, move freely, renew drivers’ licences, or even obtain their children’s birth certificates which are needed to register them in school. Legal status can also be revoked for any number of bureaucratic reasons. Palestinians may apply to become permanent residents, to prove they maintain a ‘centre of life’ in Jerusalem, but most reject doing so since it involves pledging allegiance to Israel, the occupying power. According to international humanitarian law, an occupying power is forbidden to compel people under occupation from pledging loyalty to it – however Israel does not comply to such laws. Its extensive bureaucratic system makes it extremely challenging for Palestinians to obtain official status as a Jerusalem citizen.

      “The other Palestinian territory is the 140 square mile Gaza Strip. Because of an 11 year blockade by Israel and enforced by Egypt to the south – in which Palestinians are not allowed to leave and needed goods are not allowed in – Gaza has the unsought after distinction of being called ‘the largest open-air prison’ on the planet.

      “Israel has assaulted Gaza heavily three times since the end of 2008, which caused the deaths of thousands as well as enormous damage to its infrastructure and crippling Gaza’s economy. Severe cuts to electricity have had a devastating impact on medical aid, food and technology. The water situation is dire – since Israel destroyed Gaza’s sewage infrastructure, raw sewage flows into the ocean, polluting their beaches and leaching into and polluting almost all of Gaza’s groundwater, making it undrinkable. Almost everyone in Gaza depends on water delivered by tanker trucks. Since building materials are prohibited from being allowed into Gaza, valuable infrastructure cannot be rebuilt. Being a fisherman in Gaza is now a very dangerous occupation, for the IDF routinely fires on fishing boats, injuring, arresting and killing fishermen, as well as confiscating and even destroying fishing boats. How might any of us react to such an inhumane blockade? Would we risk our lives to protest?

      “That is exactly what Palestinians in Gaza have been doing with The Great March of Return. This spring, tens of thousands rose up in mass solidarity, in an unarmed and civilian-led protest. As of this writing, Israeli snipers have shot and killed more than 150 Palestinians, and injured more than 16,000. Confronting their jailers has unified the people of Gaza in the hopes of sending a clear message to the international community to demand an end to the blockade. Meanwhile, Israel explains this collective punishment of Gaza’s 1.8 million Palestinians as necessary for the security of the Jews in Israel.

      “I cannot accept any justification for abusive treatment of human beings. I am tired of being told the Israel/Palestine conflict is complicated. In simple language, it is one group of people treating another group very badly.

      “Why would Jews, a group persecuted for centuries, be so willing to persecute others? Are we to carry hatred in our hearts forever? I am of a generation who are the children of holocaust survivors. We all grew up learning about concentration camps and gas chambers, of the efficiency of Nazi cruelty. My father never spoke about his parents killed by the Nazis, not even of any happy childhood memories – it was too painful, and I think he felt guilty for somehow not being able to save them.”

      “Settler Colonialism”
      “Before and after the birth of the Jewish state of Israel, Zionist leaders spoke with confidence about the ongoing process of settler colonialism, premised on occupation and the elimination of the native population. Quotes by Zionist leaders do not mince words.

      “From the founder of Revisionist Zionism, Zeev Jabotinsky: ‘Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out in defiance of the will of the native population’.

      “From Moshe Dayan, IDF Chief of Staff, Israeli Minister of Defence: ‘before their eyes we turn into our homestead the land and villages in which they and their forefathers lived … We are a generation of settlers, and without the steel helmet and gun barrel, we shall not be able to plant a tree or build a house.’

      “From the Director of the Jewish National Fund, Yosef Weitz: ‘It is clear that there is no room for both peoples together in this country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighbouring countries – all of them. Not one village, not one tribe, should be left!.’

      “The word ‘transfer’ was and continues to be Zionism’s euphemism for ethnic cleansing. Such strong statements make it crystal clear that from its beginnings, the leaders of the new state of Israel planned to rid their homeland of Arabs.

      “Why I must speak up for Palestinian human rights”
      “I cannot in good conscience stay silent about the behaviour of a country I was led to believe was the most wonderful thing to happen to Jewish people.

      “This conflict continues, with the continuation of the military occupation of the West Bank, strict enforcement of legal status for Palestinians in East Jerusalem, and the blockade of Gaza. For most Israelis, life is good – while only a short distance away, a people long for freedom.

      “Imagine if any of us had to deal with daily serious human rights abuses perpetrated on us, authorized by law, and enforced by 18 year old soldiers with a gun. Shocking numbers tell the story of Palestinian losses and their daily struggles since the military occupation began in 1967: 48,000+ homes and structures demolished; over a million olive trees uprooted; 100,000 detained without trial; 500+checkpoints and obstacles controlled by a soldier’s arbitrary decision; 600,000 Israeli settlers living in 130 government-approved settlements on occupied Palestinian land, and 100 unofficial ones, all in defiant violation of international law.”

      “One of the groups involved in this conflict is the political party Hamas, acknowledged by the world as terrorist militants. In 2006, a year after Israel withdrew its settlements and bases from Gaza, Hamas was elected to form the government in Gaza. It must be understood that Israeli withdrawal did not change the basic fact that Gaza remains occupied – Israel controls Gaza’s land and sea borders, territorial waters, natural resources, airspace, telecommunications and power supply. To the world, Hamas is a group responsible for attacks on Israeli Jews. To the people of Gaza, they are the group that created a necessary and extensive social welfare programme. This is not to say that everything Hamas does is wise or the best strategy. But let us remember that Israel constantly invokes its right to self-defence. We must understand that Palestine also has the right to self-defence. Since Gaza is a territory with no official army, navy or artillery, Hamas are the fighters, unwilling to ignore mistreatment and dispossession of the people they were elected to govern. Are Palestinians expected to simply accept their situation? Do the protesting Gazans at the Great March not exemplify the noble American expression, ‘give me liberty or give me death’?

      “In December of 2017, a video went viral of 16 year old West Bank Palestinian freedom fighter Ahed Tamimi who slapped an IDF soldier outside her home. She was charged with assault for actions she took with her bare hands against a fully armed and protected soldier. Ahed has recently been released from 8 months in Israeli prison, along with her mother charged with incitement for filming the incident. The village in which they live has held non-violent demonstrations for more than 6 years, to resist Israel’s occupation that confiscated village land, and to protest settlers who stole their freshwater spring.

      “For continuing to exercise her right to resist, Ahed Tamimi has become a symbol of Israel’s victimization of children – every year about 750 children are arrested. Currently over 300 Palestinian children are held in Israeli prisons, all, like Ahed, in military confinement. Millions around the world saw this fierce teenage girl stand up to her oppressors.

      “‘The only democracy in the middle east’ is a myth”
      “Democracy means more than voting in elections. In essence, in a democracy the law applies to all equally. Israel’s control over Palestinian life disqualifies it as ‘a beacon of democracy’, a term that supporters of Israel love to use.”

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 14, 2018, 12:04 pm

      “These Jews have no place in Israel and had better get used to the fact.”

      Not true, “Emet”. Zionism is the expression of the entire Jewish people. right?
      And the Jewish people can help shut it down when they determine it has failed, or is harming us.

      Of course, if you want to tell us there are two, separate and opposed Jewish nations, peoples, go right ahead.

      • Emet
        Emet
        August 14, 2018, 5:56 pm

        Unfortunately there are “Jews” who are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate Jews. Why they do this is explained in the new book “To Heal The World? How the Jewish Left Corrupts Judaism and Endangers Israel”.

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 14, 2018, 6:56 pm

        || Emet: Unfortunately there are “Jews” who are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate Jews. Why they do this is explained in the new book “To Heal The World? How the Jewish Left Corrupts Judaism and Endangers Israel”. ||

        Yessir, the world is full of:
        – “men” who don’t beat their women because they are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate men*; and
        – real men who beat their women and don’t give a f*ck what anyone thinks about it.

        And it’s a fact that no-one ever despises real men for the evil they deliberately and unapologetically do.

        Keep up the good work, Emet.
        ________________
        (*Or because they believe in being good and moral…but real men cannot comprehend such a “weakness”.)

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 15, 2018, 6:09 am

        Emet: “Unfortunately there are “Jews” who are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate Jews.”

        Yes, Yes. If only they would be more interested in looking good in the eyes of Jews who do hateworthy things to Nonjews and to those who critisize this, right?

        There’s so much antisemitism in your comment, Emet. I don’t even know where to start.

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 15, 2018, 10:32 am

        TALKBACK- “There’s so much antisemitism in your comment, Emet.”

        Anti-Semitism, not anti-Gentilism? Interesting.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 15, 2018, 10:56 am

        “Unfortunately there are “Jews” who are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate Jews.” “Nathan”

        Isn’t that awful? How did we end up with a problem like that?
        How extensive is it?

        But I won’t hear any slurs on Peter Beinart’s Orthodoxy. He is a man who visits the Wailing Wahl every day!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 15, 2018, 11:08 am

        “Anti-Semitism, not anti-Gentilism? “

        Well, “Keith”, between the two (Jews and Gentiles) which group is smaller, less powerful and easier to push around? “Nathan” is no dummy, he knows who to go after.

        “A devastating critique of the presumed theological basis of the Jewish social justice movement—the concept of healing the world.”

        That’s one heck of a protocol elder Jonathan Neumann is pushing.

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 15, 2018, 4:45 pm

        MOOSER- “That’s one heck of a protocol elder Jonathan Neumann is pushing.”

        Well, at least he is honest about actual historical Jewish practice and belief.

        “In this lively theological polemic, Neumann shows how tikkun olam, an invention of the Jewish left, has diluted millennia of Jewish practice and belief….” https://www.amazon.com/Heal-World-Corrupts-Judaism-Endangers/dp/1250160871

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        August 15, 2018, 5:34 pm

        Subject to correction, I think that ‘tikkun olsm’, a phrase of Jewish prayer, did not refer originally to putting things right in the existing order of things, when idolatry is still not abolished, but to perfecting the world when that abolition had occurred. Maybe it was a response to Christian talk of ‘redeeming the time’ amid evil days, which Jewish theologians may have considered an attempt to have it both ways, predicting the End and being happy without it.

      • gamal
        gamal
        August 15, 2018, 5:41 pm

        “Well, at least he is honest about actual historical Jewish practice and belief”

        that is rarely true of right wing tracts, I notice that in the panel below it shows that people who etc also liked the number one best seller in the Muhammad in Islam section: Robert Spencers “Jihad: from Muhammad to ISIS”, it is unlikely that I would want to discuss your or anyones impressions or questions that may arise from a reading of Spencer, however “honest” or “actual” it may appear to an ingenue.

        as to Jewish historical practise mostly revolutionary and socialist in modern Europe, getting on with their lives in the Arab world like everyone else, Zionism has yoked them to another cart.

        how would you describe English historical practise and belief, or German or French…

        It’s not going to sound pretty is it?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 15, 2018, 7:25 pm

        “Well, at least he is honest about actual historical Jewish practice and belief.”

        And I’m sure “Nathan” would agree with you. He’s honest, too.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 16, 2018, 9:19 am

        Keith: “Anti-Semitism, not anti-Gentilism? Interesting.”

        Anti-Gentilism? How?

        In Emet’s worldview there are only real Jews and fake Jews. The real Jews don’t give a sh** about what they do to Nonjews. And the fake Jews do, but only out of Jewish self interest. According to him Jews as such don’t/can’t care for the well being of all humans.

        Now if that’s not antisemitic, what is?

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 16, 2018, 10:39 am

        TALKBACK- “Anti-Gentilism? How?”

        Emet refers to “Jews” who are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate Jews.” Who do you suppose he is referring to as “those who hate Jews?” You are unaware of the concept of eternal and irrational Gentile anti-Semitism? Emet is not expressing hatred for Jews as a group, he is castigating those Jews seeking Gentile approval by criticizing Israel. It takes a full measure of perceived victimhood to categorize a comment lamenting concern for Gentile opinion as anti-Semitic. Someone who sees “blood libel” as a significant problem in contemporary Britain.

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 16, 2018, 11:16 am

        TALKBACK- ” The real Jews don’t give a sh** about what they do to Nonjews.”

        You are putting words in Emet’s mouth. The underlying rationale/pretext for Zionism and for Israel is the belief in eternal and irrational anti-Semitism. The belief that Gentiles are fundamentally Jew-haters. Zionists have always maintained Jewish innocence and purity, that their actions are defensive in nature. Show me a quote where Emet says that “real Jews don’t give a sh** about what they do to Nonjews.” And while that may well be the ultimate consequence of Zionist ideology, Emet’ s statement is anti-Gentile (Jew-haters) and in no way anti-Semitic. Apparently, Jewish anti-Gentilism is inconceivable to you, everything perceived through the lens of anti-Semitism.

        “Therefore, the real test facing both Israeli and diaspora Jews is the test of their self-criticism which must include a critique of the Jewish past. The most important part of such a critique must be detailed and honest confrontation of the Jewish attitude to non-Jews.” (p103, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years,” Israel Shahak)

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 16, 2018, 1:33 pm

        Keith: “You are putting words in Emet’s mouth.”

        Nope. I have been reading all of his comments from day one.

        Keith: “Zionists have always maintained Jewish innocence and purity, that their actions are defensive in nature.”

        Exactly. This self delusion is their way of not giving sh** about what they do to Nonjews. It is exactly Emet’s view and that anyone who questions this is a “Jew” not a real Jew.

        Keith: “Show me a quote where Emet says that “real Jews don’t give a sh** about what they do to Nonjews. And while that may well be the ultimate consequence of Zionist ideology, …”

        ROFL. Do you need me to prove that Emet is Zionist, too? It is this consequence that shines through all of his comments. Why don’t you give Emet a chance to reject my accusations and clarify his position? He won’t do it. He never did.

        Keith: “Emet’ s statement is anti-Gentile …”

        Again, how?

        Keith: “Apparently, Jewish anti-Gentilism is inconceivable to you, everything perceived through the lens of anti-Semitism.”

        ROFL. Actually most if not all of my comments deal with the Jewish “anti-Gentilism” especially of Zionist MW commenters and I rarely talk about antisemitism. Something seems to be wrong with your lens.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 16, 2018, 4:10 pm

        “he is castigating those Jews seeking Gentile approval by criticizing Israel”

        Do you think there are a lot of those, “Keith”? “Jews seeking Gentile approval by criticizing Israel”, that is.

        (Of course, if there is such a cohort of Jews, that’s Israel’s tough luck. Maybe Zionism shouldn’t just take us all for granted.)

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 16, 2018, 5:13 pm

        MOOSER- “Do you think there are a lot of those, “Keith”? “Jews seeking Gentile approval by criticizing Israel”, that is.”

        No. Emet is dishonestly implying that those Jews who criticize Israel are seeking Gentile approval. Definitely dishonest, yet hardly anti-Semitic except to those raised to believe in eternal Jewish victimhood. On the other hand, “Jew-haters” is how Zionists like Emet refer to non-Jews, is it not? I thought I made that clear. So you agree with Talkback that referring to Gentiles as “Jew-haters” is anti-Semitic?

        “Two central dogmas underpin the Holocaust framework: (1) The Holocaust marks a categorically unique historical event; (2) The Holocaust marks the climax of an irrational, eternal Gentile hatred of Jews.” (p41, “The Holocaust Industry,” Norman Finkelstein)

        “The myth is that “the Holocaust” is a unique event, which, despite its “uniqueness,” teaches compelling lessons about why Jews must be Jewish….So if you want to know why be Jewish, you have to remember that (1) the gentiles wiped out the Jews of Europe, so are not to be trusted, let alone joined; (2)if there had been “Israel,” meaning the State of Israel, there would have been no Holocaust; and so (3) for the sake of your personal safety, you have to “support Israel” (p6,7, “Stranger at Home: “The Holocaust,” Zionism, and American Judaism,” Jacob Neusner)

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 16, 2018, 5:53 pm

        TALKBACK- “ROFL. Do you need me to prove that Emet is Zionist, too?”

        No, simply be honest. While it may be difficult to get quotes while unable to search the comments, can you honestly say that Emet has ever said that “real Jews don’t give a sh** about what they do to Nonjews.”? That is you talking, partner. A more honest interpretation of Emet’s comment would be that “there are disloyal Jews who join forces with Jew-hating Gentiles to attack Israel.” No?

        TALKBACK- “Again, how?”

        Unless you can show that “those who hate Jews” is referring to some group other than Gentiles, then the reference to those who hate Jews is anti-Gentile in the extreme. The whole notion of irrational, eternal Gentile hatred of Jews is anti-Gentile. You can’t see this?

        TALKBACK- ” Actually most if not all of my comments deal with the Jewish “anti-Gentilism” ….”

        Pity the archives are messed up so I can’t search “anti-Gentilism.” No doubt you will claim that castigating Zionists for supporting the abuse of Palestinians constitutes fighting “anti-Gentilism.” Also, defending Corbyn. Not so. An overemphasis on Jewish victimhood constitutes a form of anti-Gentile bias. You can’t see this? Tell you what. In a previous thread you maintained that “blood libel” was relevant in contemporary Britain. Why don’t you compile a list of all of the incidents of “blood libel” for the past year in Britain so that we can evaluate your concern.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 16, 2018, 7:28 pm

        “According to him (Emet) Jews as such don’t/can’t care for the well being of all humans.”

        Look, we Jews can’t look out for every tiny minority in the world!

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 17, 2018, 4:35 am

        Keith @ Mooser: “So you agree with Talkback that referring to Gentiles as “Jew-haters” is anti-Semitic? … On the other hand, “Jew-haters” is how Zionists like Emet refer to non-Jews, is it not?”

        LOL. Ao you are not even sure, if Emet refers to Gentiles as “Jew-haters”. But based on that questionable premise you even claim that I claimed that referring to Gentiles as “Jew-haters” is antisemitic. I never did. Refering to Gentiles as “Jew-haters” is obviously anti-Gentile.

        Keith: “While it may be difficult to get quotes while unable to search the comments, can you honestly say that Emet has ever said that “real Jews don’t give a sh** about what they do to Nonjews.”?”

        I made accusations about his view based on everything he wrote, not what he explicitly confessed in one comment. And I don’t really care, if he explicitly used these words or not. But how about you proving that he refers only to Gentiles as Jew-haters instead of refering to Jew-haters as such and not Gentiles as such. And you could also prove where I claimed that ‘referring to Gentiles as “Jew-haters” is anti-Semitic’.

        Keith: “A more honest interpretation of Emet’s comment would be that “there are disloyal Jews who join forces with Jew-hating Gentiles to attack Israel.”

        I never interpreted these words. So yes, your interpretation of his words is more honest than your interpretation of my words. But he does not think that these Jews are disloyal. He thinks that they are not Jews at all and puts the word Jews in quotation marks while refering to them. That’s the underlying antisemitism I see in his statement.

        Keith: “Unless you can show that “those who hate Jews” is referring to some group other than Gentiles, then the reference to those who hate Jews is anti-Gentile in the extreme.”

        ROFL. Now it is up to me to provide evidence for your claim that he is only refering to Gentiles as such? Fair enough. Unless you can show that Emet doesn’t think that real Jews don’t give a sh** about what Jews do to Nonjews it is anti-Semitism in the extreme.

        Keith: “Pity the archives are messed up so I can’t search “anti-Gentilism.”

        I rarely use the word “anti-Gentilism” or “anti-Gentile” or “Gentile”. I talk about “Nonjews” and what some Jews do to them.

        Keith: “No doubt you will claim that castigating Zionists for supporting the abuse of Palestinians constitutes fighting “anti-Gentilism.” Also, defending Corbyn.”

        Seriously. What’s your problem?

        Keith: “In a previous thread you maintained that “blood libel” was relevant in contemporary Britain.”

        I maintained that “blood lible” againt Jews is something whe should be (still) concerned about. Any other of my comments you need to distort? Don’t hold back to waste our time.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 17, 2018, 5:17 am

        P.S.

        Keith: “Emet is dishonestly implying that those Jews who criticize Israel are seeking Gentile approval. Definitely dishonest, yet hardly anti-Semitic except …”

        What’s the difference between Emet and an antisemite who claims that real Jews choose loyality to their tribe and only hold integrity by not altruisticly endorsing universal/humanitarian values for example by critisizing those who don’t and especially those who claim to speak for them?

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 17, 2018, 2:59 pm

        TALKBACK- “LOL. Ao you are not even sure, if Emet refers to Gentiles as “Jew-haters”.

        Jeez, are you dishonest! You rearrange my words, leaving some out, to misrepresent my clear meaning. Is there no bottom to your barrel?

        TALKBACK- “Refering to Gentiles as “Jew-haters” is obviously anti-Gentile.”

        Well, you finally admit it! On 8/16 @ 9:19 you said “Anti-Gentilism? How?” At 1:33 you said “Again, how?” Now, at last, you admit that referring to Gentiles as Jew-haters is “obviously anti-Gentile.” And since you have made no attempt to show that Emet is referring to anyone other than Gentiles, the obvious reference consistent with Zionist ideology, then you have finally conceded the obvious. But it was like pulling teeth to eke out even a smidgen of reluctant honesty. You have come a short way, baby.

        TALKBACK- “What’s the difference between Emet and an antisemite who claims that real Jews choose loyality to their tribe….”

        The rest of this long sentence is so incoherent that it is difficult to decipher. Traditional anti-Semites don’t differentiate between real Jews and phony Jews, they lump all Jews together as sharing numerous common characteristics by virtue of their being Jews. They strongly dislike or hate all Jews simply because they are Jews. Emet and other Zionists don’t hate Jews, although they may hate individual Jews. The Conference of Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations don’t hate Jews, yet are Zionist to the core. Zionists are anti-Gentile Jewish supremacists, your attempts to depict them as anti-Semites would be laughable if not for the underlying emphasis on anti-Semitism.

        This will likely be my last comment on this thread. Had I dreamed that my obvious observation would precipitate such a lengthy barrage of dishonest pilpul, I would have not made it. I don’t find it worthwhile to attempt discussions with those lacking a requisite minimum of intellectual integrity.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 17, 2018, 3:23 pm

        “Zionists are anti-Gentile Jewish supremacists”

        Anti-Gentile Jewish supremacists! Oh my! Try not to let them scare you “Keith”. The numbers are just slightly on the Gentile’s side.

        Look, “Keith” I know the Zionists sell a lot of bullshit about Jewish supremacy, but if you ever start to believe it, just think of me.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 17, 2018, 4:41 pm

        Keith: “Jeez, are you dishonest! You rearrange my words, leaving some out, to misrepresent my clear meaning. Is there no bottom to your barrel?”

        ROFL. What an infantile retort after I accused you of exactly doing with my statements. You asked “On the other hand, “Jew-haters” is how Zionists like Emet refer to non-Jews, is it not?” I didn’t rearrange or misrepresent your words. I simply didn’t intepret it as a rhetorical question. Especially after reading your “Unless you can show that “those who hate Jews” is referring to some group other than Gentiles, …”

        Keith: “Well, you finally admit it!”

        ROFL. You are nuts. Simply nuts. This is getting kafkaesque. There is no need for me to “admit” what I never contested and never will.

        Keith: “On 8/16 @ 9:19 you said “Anti-Gentilism? How?” At 1:33 you said “Again, how?” Now, at last, you admit that referring to Gentiles as Jew-haters is “obviously anti-Gentile.”

        OMG. Don’t you understand the difference between the claim that refering to Nonjews as Jewhaters is antigentile (I agree) and your claim that this is exactly what Emet does (which had nothing to do with my original accusation of antisemitism)? You are confusing two claims. And my accusation of antisemitism doesn’t even have anything to do with the question if Emet does refer to Nonjews as Jewhaters or not or if this is antigentilism or not.

        Keith: “And since you have made no attempt to show that Emet is referring to anyone other than Gentiles, …”

        You made this claim that he is. Don’t be ridiculous to ask from me to prove your claim, only because you fail to do so far.

        Keith: “… the obvious reference consistent with Zionist ideology, then you have finally conceded the obvious. But it was like pulling teeth to eke out even a smidgen of reluctant honesty.”

        Again, you are nuts. I simply agreed that refering to Nonjews as Jewhaters is antigentile. I never agreed that this is exactly what Emet is doing. So much for your honesty.

        Keith: “You have come a short way, baby.”

        Your unfounded arrogance is even more pathetic.

        Keith: “The rest of this long sentence is so incoherent that it is difficult to decipher.”

        Do you agree that it is antisemitic to claim that if Jews endorse universal values that they hold no integrity (because they are disloyal to the tribe)? Or that they only do it out of self interest? I think it is. And this is exactly what I think Emet views on Jews is.

        Keith: “Had I dreamed that my obvious observation would precipitate such a lengthy barrage of dishonest pilpul, I would have not made it. I don’t find it worthwhile to attempt discussions with those lacking a requisite minimum of intellectual integrity.”

        Yes, you should put more time in improving your reading and logical thinking skills. You will notice less “dishonesty” and more “intellectual integrity” around you. And regarding your obvious observation. Still waiting from you to show us that Emet refers to Gentiles as Jewhaters.

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 17, 2018, 5:15 pm

        MOOSER- “Anti-Gentile Jewish supremacists! Oh my! Try not to let them scare you “Keith”. The numbers are just slightly on the Gentile’s side.”

        Even more so in the UK where Jeremy Corbyn is running roughshod over this tiny minority!

        “The full adoption of the IHRA definition of anti-semitism will be a major victory both for Israel and its apologists in Britain, who who have been seeking to silence all meaningful criticism of Israel, and for the British corporate media, which would dearly love to see the back of an old-school socialist Labour leader whose programme threatens to loosen the 40-year stranglehold of neoliberalism on British society.

        Besieged for four years, Corbyn’s allies in the Labour leadership have largely lost the stomach for battle, one that was never about substance or policy but about character assassination. As the stakes have been constantly upped by the media and the Blairite holdouts in the party bureacracy, the inevitable has happened. Corbyn has been abandoned. Few respected politicians with career ambitions or a public profile want to risk being cast out into the wilderness, like Ken Livingstone, as an anti-semite.” (Jonathan Cook) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50063.htm

        “The current hysteria engulfing the British Labour Party resolves itself into a pair of interrelated, if discrete, premises: Anti-Semitism in British society at large and the Labour Party in particular have reached crisis proportions. If neither of these premises can be sustained, then the hysteria is a fabrication. In fact, no evidence has been adduced to substantiate either of them; on the contrary, all the evidence points in the opposite direction. The rational conclusion is that the brouhaha is a calculated hoax—dare it be said, plot?—to oust Jeremy Corbyn and the principled leftist politics he represents from British public life. But even if the allegations were true, the solution would still not be to curb freedom of thought in the Labour Party. At its worthiest, the Left-Liberal tradition has attached a unique, primordial value to Truth; but Truth cannot be attained if dissentients, however obnoxious, are silenced. Given the fraught history of anti-Semitism, on the one hand, and its crude manipulation by Jewish elites, on the other, an objective, dispassionate assessment could appear beyond reach. Still, it must be attempted. The prospect of a historic victory for the Left might otherwise be sabotaged as, thus far, Corbyn’s supporters, whether it be from fear, calculation, or political correctness, dare not speak the name of the evil that is afoot.” (Norman Finkelstein) http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/08/17/finkelstein-on-corbyn-mania/

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        August 17, 2018, 9:26 pm

        talkback: What’s the difference between Emet and an antisemite who claims that real Jews choose loyality to their tribe…[etc.]
        ————————

        Emet thinks that’s a good thing; the antisemite thinks that’s bad.

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        August 17, 2018, 9:58 pm

        talkback: In Emet’s worldview there are only real Jews and fake Jews. The real Jews don’t give a sh** about what they do to Nonjews. And the fake Jews do, but only out of Jewish self interest… [emphasis added]
        ——————————-

        I don’t think that is accurate.

        Emet wrote:

        “Unfortunately there are “Jews” who are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate Jews. [emphasis added]

        So, the “fake Jews” , in Emet’s view, are NOT acting out of “Jewish self-interest”, but on the contrary are acting AGAINST Jewish self-interest– by trying to please people who “hate Jews”.

        Keith got it exactly right when he wrote:

        Emet is not expressing hatred for Jews as a group, he is castigating those Jews seeking Gentile approval by criticizing Israel.

        And since Emet is not expressing hatred for Jews as a group, he is not expressing antisemitism.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 17, 2018, 11:09 pm

        And now can we stop this wrangle about Emet?

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        August 17, 2018, 11:45 pm

        talkback: Do you agree that it is antisemitic to claim that if Jews endorse universal values that they hold no integrity (because they are disloyal to the tribe)?
        ————————————–

        1) That is not what Emet wrote in the specific post you responded to when you made the antisemitism charge. (To repeat, he wrote: “Unfortunately there are “Jews” who are more interested in looking good in the eyes of those who hate Jews“. ) He said nothing about universal values in that statement. If you think that is Emet’s position and want to criticize it, you need to substantiate that with other quotations.

        As a matter of fact, though, castigating Jews for aiding and abetting people who hate Jews could be perfectly consistent with universal values–if the charge were in fact true. Similarly, if an African-American castigated other African-Americans for aiding and abetting people who hate African-Americans, that too would not necessarily be inconsistent with with universal values.

        2) The real problem with Emet’s statement is that the charge is doubly false. The non-Jewish critics of Israel (with very few exceptions) are not acting out of hatred of Jews, and the Jewish critics of Israel are not acting out of a desire to obtain the approval of non-Jews.

        3)Emet is basically labeling non-Jewish critics of Israel as antisemites, and Jewish critics of Israel as self-hating Jews. Standard stuff. That doesn’t make Emet an antisemite. That makes him a pro-Jewish, pro-Israel ethnonationalist.

        4)By falsely labeling non-Jewish critics of Israel as antisemites (Jew-haters), Emet is indeed expressing “anti-Gentilism.” Keith is correct on that essential point. Although I find the expression “anti-Gentilism” slightly awkward, the basic idea is exactly right: Gentiles are accused of having an eternal, irrational hatred of Jews, and that irrational hatred is alleged to be the motive for criticism of Israel.

        5) I understand the motive to try to flip the powerful antisemitism charge back on those who habitually use it themselves, but this convoluted attempt to label Jewish ethnonationalists as antisemites is misguided.

        First, it simply doesn’t work, either logically or polemically.

        Second, it reinforces and legitimizes the use of the antisemitism epithet. So now we have to worry about Jewish antisemitism on top of the already massiviely exaggerated non-Jewish antisemitism? Let’s just keep this idea of antisemitism in the center of attention? Let’s just keep repeating that word, antisemitism? That’s a terrible strategy.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 18, 2018, 2:59 am

        Sibiriak: “So, the “fake Jews” , in Emet’s view, are NOT acting out of “Jewish self-interest”, …”

        What I meant was that in his view they were acting in self-interest to protect themselves as Jews, because they are Jews.

        And what I find antisemitic is that in the big picture he implies that Jews as such can’t have altruistic motiviations to critisize what some Jews do to Nonjews an that the only motivation to do so is that they are selfish and are only concerned with whats good for them as Jews. (This also a respond to your second comment.)

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 18, 2018, 10:08 am

        Talkback

        Do you agree that it is antisemitic to claim that if Jews endorse universal values that they hold no integrity (because they are disloyal to the tribe)? Or that they only do it out of self interest? I think it is. And this is exactly what I think Emet views on Jews is.

        I really couldn’t care less than I do for either “antisemitism” or Hemet, but logic I do care for.
        Your formulation is faulty here: not “if Jews endorse universal values that they hold no integrity” but “Jews who endorse universal values hold no integrity”

        So Emmet’s accusations are directed at
        – a subgroup of “Jews”, whatever his definition of it,
        – this subgroup is defined by a political belief (“universal values”), not “Jewishness”.

        As “Antisemitism”, by any conceivable definition, is directed against “Jews” as a group prejudice, for the only fact of their being defined “Jews” (no other characteristic needed),
        opposition to a subgroup of “Jews”, for an attitude unrelated to “being Jewish” cannot, by definition, be called “antisemitism”.

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 18, 2018, 11:22 am

        SIBIRIAK- “That’s a terrible strategy.”

        Not for a tribal anti-Zionist who places a strong emphasis on perceived anti-Semitism, “blood libel,” etc.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 18, 2018, 5:55 pm

        echi: “Your formulation is faulty here: not “if Jews endorse universal values that they hold no integrity” but “Jews who endorse universal values hold no integrity”.

        My claim is that Emet’s view is that Jews as such are not able to endorse universal values. And if they pretend that they do they only want to look good in the eyes of antisemites. And I find this antisemitic.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 18, 2018, 8:28 pm

        My claim…/…find this antisemitic.”

        Exactly, “Talkback”.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 18, 2018, 11:32 pm

        “Emet’s view is that Jews as such are not able to endorse universal values. … And I find this antisemitic.”

        I don’t care what is and what isn’t anti-Semitic. It doesn’t matter. The important question is whether it is true.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 19, 2018, 2:24 pm

        ” The important question is whether it is true.”

        Ah, but given all the possibilities for deception and double-talk, can you ever really know?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 19, 2018, 9:15 pm

        “Ah, but given all the possibilities for deception and double-talk, can you ever really know?”

        Perhaps not, but it’s still the important question.

        Can you tell me whether it is true or not? I am certain that you wouldn’t try to flim-flam me with deception and double-talk.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2018, 5:39 pm

        “Can you tell me whether it is true or not?”

        No, I can’t. Not as a general thing.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 21, 2018, 7:13 am

        RoHa: “I don’t care what is and what isn’t anti-Semitic. It doesn’t matter. The important question is whether it is true.”

        All forms of racism are a logical fallacy and therefore not true. Even if the accusation against one member of a set of people is true one can not logically conclude that this applies to all members of the same group.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 22, 2018, 12:57 am

        “All forms of racism are a logical fallacy and therefore not true. ”

        I’m not sure what your point is.

        It is certainly an error to assume that a non-defining characteristic of some members of a class is shared by all members of that class.

        But it is also an error to assume that it is not so shared.

        It may be, in fact, true that all Australians are coarse, beer-swilling, louts, and that the idea of the genteel, cultured, Australian is just a product of a disordered imagination.

        And it is certainly the case that we can make generalisations about a group without wishing to suggest that the generalisation applies to the whole group.

        The important question to ask is whether or not the generalisation is true.

        (And, as a point of logic, a fallacious argument can have a true conclusion. E.g.

        1. Some people with an “r” in their names are grumpy old gits.
        2. RoHa has an “r” in his name.
        3. Therefore, RoHa is a grumpy old git.)

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      August 14, 2018, 3:18 pm

      Emet: “…is a Jew how holds little to no integrity.”

      ROFL. That’s is even more orwellian than your nick name, Sheqer.

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      August 16, 2018, 6:02 am

      Excuse me emek but you’ve mistaken anyone here for giving a fuck about what you’re saying. You’ve made your POV crystal clear. Just sayin’.

      As far as you claiming ‘Weiss and Beinart, These Jews have no place in israel and had better get used to the fact’. Thanks for the chuckles! I’m sure Phil and Peter will love it as much as I did! *ROFLMFJAO!!!! BWAAHAAAHAAAHHHAAAHAAAHHHAAAHHHAAAHHHAAAAHHHAAAAA!

      *Property of Mooser (I think)

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 17, 2018, 3:30 pm

      “This goes for Weiss and Beinart. These Jews have no place in Israel and had better get used to the fact.”

      Let me get this straight, “Emet”. You want them to stop sending donations?

  7. Kay24
    Kay24
    August 14, 2018, 6:30 am

    They have much to hide. Why else would a so called “democracy” not allow an American journalist and his family into their country? Did they, for one minute, think he is a terrorist? They are like parasites taking tax payer money for years, yet treat Jewish Americans like dirt. They have killed US citizens, bombed our ships, and spied on us, yet it seems the US keeps kissing up to them and sending them billions of dollars. Many Americans have been harassed at their airport, yet the unwavering support for this criminal nation goes on. There is no end to this insanity.

  8. Misterioso
    Misterioso
    August 14, 2018, 11:25 am

    Another informative gem by Professor Lawrence Davidson:

    “Food Theft as a Form of Cultural Genocide—An Analysis” (6 August 2018) by Professor Lawrence Davidson

    “Part I—Cultural Genocide”

    “Back in 2012 I wrote a short book entitled Cultural Genocide (Rutgers University Press). It looked at four case studies of this phenomenon: the American Indians, Russian treatment of Jews in the 19th century, Chinese assimilation of Tibet, and Israel’s ongoing treatment of the Palestinians. It is an aspect of Palestinian plight that I want to revisit here.

    “The idea behind cultural genocide is relatively simple—it is the systematic erasure of the culture of indigenous people subject to colonization. The endgame here is that the conquered land will no longer be popularly identified with the culture and traditions of those who were once native to it. Instead, their culture will be replaced by that of the colonizer. The most common way of doing this is to disperse or actually wipe out a good part of the indigenous population, with the resulting trauma causing their culture, at least in its native form, to disappear. However, sometimes the colonizers will appropriate elements of the native culture as their own. This is cultural genocide by theft as well as destruction.

    “In Cultural Genocide I laid out how the Israelis were attempting to undermine and ultimately destroy Palestinian culture in a seemingly never-ending effort to ‘Hebraize’ the territory now called Israel. Here are some of the techniques employed: (1) the practice of renaming, which began as early as the 1920s: ‘With the help of archeologists, geographers and biblical scholars’ the Zionists ‘began to systematically erase Palestine’s Arab history and heritage from what would be Israel’s own official records, maps and histories’; (2) The physical destruction of Palestinian archeological sites, artifacts, ancient mosques and historic houses to the extent that the Unesco World Heritage office describes the Israeli actions as ‘crimes against the cultural history of mankind’; (3) The purposeful looting and subsequent destruction of Palestinian libraries, archives and museums; and (4) the imposition of literally thousands of regulations designed to make it impossible for Palestinians in occupied territory to express themselves culturally or politically. For further information, see Cultural Genocide, pp.. 77-80.

    “Part II—Mislabeling Palestinian Cuisine”

    “When I wrote this book in 2012, the issue of the appropriation of native foods as the colonizer’s own did not come up. It was, if you will, ‘under my radar.’ It got on my radar about five years ago, whereupon I began complaining (often to no avail) to supermarkets and restaurants about hummus and falafel being advertised as ‘Israeli food.’

    “I was again reminded of the issue by a series of events, most recently, a local catered dinner to raise money for Playgrounds For Palestine. The food was all Palestinian. The well-known chef Anan Zahr reminded us all that ‘this is a crucial time for the Palestinian people, whose identity and culture are aggressively threatened on a daily basis by the Israeli government. It is so important for us to highlight and showcase the Palestinian cuisine to prevent ongoing food appropriation.’

    To ‘highlight and showcase Palestinian cuisine’ here in the West is a difficult task, if only because the effort must overcome a sea of ignorance and indifference. Despite the decades of ongoing conflict that has been grist for the mill of mass media, there are still millions of Americans, and others too, who know little about the cultural genocide of the Palestinians. What resides now in the minds of most people (when they consider the topic at all) is Israel presented to them as a ‘normal country’ periodically threatened by Muslim Arabs. And, just as the Italians eat Italian food, and the French eat French food, the average American assumes that the Israelis eat ‘Israeli food.’

    “A good example of this was the controversy sparked by celebrity chef Rachel Ray, who appears on a number of on-line and televised cooking shows.. Back in December 2017 Ray, who is not Jewish, put out a number of tweets describing ‘an Israeli meal.” The foods she tweeted about included hummus, tabbouleh (“tabouli”), stuffed grape leaves, chicken fried in za’atar and cucumber salad—all of them traditional Palestinian foods.

    “As the Times of Israel described it, ‘the posts spurred a cascade of more than1,600 replies, most of them critical.’ This is an expression of the fact that Palestinians ‘see Israeli claims to these foods as just one more form of oppression.’ Yousef Munayyer, who directs the U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights, placed the situation in context: ‘place names, street names, historical markers have been changed. Forests have literally been planted above our villages, obfuscating the very remnants of our history and the graves of our ancestors. So please understand, when you label this food ‘Israeli’ you’re participating in a broad process of replacement that goes way beyond what is on a plate and is instead about denying Palestinians [to] even have a place at the global table.’ He asserted that Ray’s tweets had contributed to ‘a culture in which Palestinians, as a people, are often told they do not exist.’ In other words, by taking Palestinian food and renaming it Israeli, the Zionists perform an act of cultural genocide.

    “All of this must have left Rachael Ray’s head spinning. She did not directly respond to the consequences of her faux pas but quickly moved on to tweeting about Greek cuisine. As far as I can learn, her mislabeling of Palestinian cuisine as Israeli was largely due to ignorance. She has no particular connections to Israel beyond the fact that she has a friend who goes there and brings her back recipes. She certainly is no hard-core Zionist. For instance, back in 2008 Ray was accused of giving moral support to a ‘murderous Palestinian jihad,’ by appearing in a commercial for Dunkin Donuts wearing a scarf that ‘looked too much like a keffiyeh.’

    “Part III—The Zionist Response”

    “Zionists and their supporters have a response to these complaints. However, like all their other arguments, they rest on an utter unwillingness to take responsibility for their own collective actions. What they do in this case is talk around the issue, thus avoiding a complete picture. Thus, their principle response, given here by one Alex Kay, goes like this: ‘Israeli cuisine is a beautiful celebration of Jews from around the world, including 800,000 Jewish Arabs thrown out from Arab countries. In Israel you have Eastern and Western food mixed perfectly. … Palestinians don’t own chopped salad or za’atar.’

    It is quite beside the point whether or not Israeli cuisine is ‘a beautiful celebration of Jews from around the world’ or ‘in Israel you have Eastern and Western food mixed perfectly.’ The context for the complaint of food appropriation has nothing to do with the celebration of ‘Jewishness’ or a melding of cuisines. Nor, quite frankly, has it to do with the allegation that 800,000 Jewish Arabs were ‘thrown out from Arab countries’ soon after Israel was founded. This assertion is an exaggerated element of the broader Zionist mantra. Jewish Arabs faced much less hostility in most Arab countries than the Zionists say they did, particularly considering that, at the time, the Zionists had begun to ethnically cleanse Palestinians. However, in every case these Arab Jewish communities faced relentless Zionist pressure to emigrate. And, when they did go to Israel they faced discrimination because of their Arab heritage.

    “The only pertinent allegation in the Zionist retort is ‘Palestinians don’t own chopped salad or za’atar.’ Yet, within the broader context in which Israel’s appropriation of Palestinian food takes place, the truth is that the Palestinians do ‘own’ these foods—not only historically, but also morally. As noted above, that greater context is one of purposeful destruction of the Palestinian people, and that makes all the difference. As long as the Israelis practice ethnic cleansing and continue down the road to apartheid state status (as they did with their recent nationality law), their claim on any aspect of Palestinian heritage—be it land or food—is a de facto act of cultural genocide. And, if this form of destructive racism is not to become ever more frequent, every aspect of Zionist appropriation must be fought, right down to the last ‘Israeli’ falafel.”


    Lawrence Davidson
    [email protected]

    Blog: http://www.tothepointanalyses.com

  9. John O
    John O
    August 14, 2018, 4:31 pm

    Well, Mr Beinart. You didn’t speak up for the Palestinians when they came for them; and now they’re coming for you. You shouldn’t be surprised.

    • chocopie
      chocopie
      August 14, 2018, 9:33 pm

      Good point. And he better hope they don’t break down his door in the middle of the night to take his kids. That’s what comes next.

  10. Emet
    Emet
    August 14, 2018, 5:31 pm

    Go read the book “To Heal the World? How the Jewish Left Corrupts Judaism and Endangers Israel”.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      August 15, 2018, 6:14 am

      Not necessary. To heal the world just read Kants categorical imperative. But I have to warn you that it may endanger the corruptions of your mind.

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      August 16, 2018, 8:00 am

      Stick to cheese.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 16, 2018, 4:16 pm

      “To Heal the World? How the Jewish Left Corrupts Judaism and Endangers Israel”

      subtitled:

      “My Human Problem – and Ours”

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 16, 2018, 4:42 pm

        Here’s a little bit of antidote to Neumann:

        Dr. Glosser on his nephew, Stephen Miller

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 18, 2018, 10:19 am

        Mooser,

        That article is pure nonsense. That anyone who is of immigrant stock is not allowed to oppose immigration, is the only argument.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 18, 2018, 12:58 pm

        “That article is pure nonsense.”

        Well, then, you stick with his nephew’s immigration ideas.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 18, 2018, 4:12 pm

        Mooser,

        Back in my time they used to teach, at elementary school, that a critique for lack of logic was not the same as espousing the content of any side of an argument. In much simpler words that I can’t reproduce verbatim, and introducing the actors Jim, Nancy and Sally or some old-fashioned names like that.

        So you can copy this 100 times: if Sally points out that Jim’s argument against Nancy is absurd, that does not mean that Sally necessarily approves or rejects either A’s or B’s views.

        Report back when you’re done.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 18, 2018, 8:36 pm

        “Report back when you’re done.”

        Okay, I will. (Reads article again.) I’m done, here’s my report: “That anyone who is of immigrant stock is not allowed to oppose immigration, is the only argument” is an absurd and ridiculous characterization of the article.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 18, 2018, 9:10 pm

        “That anyone who is of immigrant stock is not allowed to oppose immigration, is the only argument.”

        And that is no argument. Of course, that comma should not be there.

        I don’t know Sally. I practice Aikido with Nancy and , sometimes, Jim. Nancy and I hold the same rank.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 18, 2018, 11:44 pm

        RoHa,

        As opposed to my frequent mistakes and typos, I can defend that comma. Used by several of good old-timer US authors when writing a longish phrase as a subject, introduced by ‘that’. Rex Stout has Archie use that a couple times, repeating street speech style. Don’t remember exactly which of the 70+ books but I’ll start looking. A couple more are still in my mind, but it will take searching. I’ll provide the lot if you are patient.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 18, 2018, 11:48 pm

        Mooser,

        Of course it’s not the only argument –but that’s the central one, and the only strongly illogical one. All the rest is standard fare.

  11. chinese box
    chinese box
    August 16, 2018, 7:02 am

    Panic is beginning to set in for a lot of prominent American Zionists. There’s been one opinion piece after another in the major newspapers after another about Israel in the major newspapers in the last few days. New one today in Wapo by Max Boot.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 17, 2018, 12:47 pm

      “New one today in Wapo by Max Boot.”

      Max Boot! Ain’t that a kick in the head! As the sailor said, quote: ‘Ain’t that a hole in the boat’.

  12. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    August 19, 2018, 2:57 pm

    Detaining Beinart seems very Naftali Bennett. I think Netanyahu has surrendered to him. Israel is Bennetty now. Pretend there is nothing wrong and attack anyone who disagrees. I am sure there there is a portion of the Torah that says such a policy is really stupid.

  13. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    August 22, 2018, 11:36 pm

    There are dozens of not hundreds of Israeli citizens that can criticize Israel to their heart’s content without fear of being held up at the border. Beinhart knew exactly what he was doing and he almost certainly believes his mission is successful. Not that many American Jews even know him well and he may very well be still riding the lucrative high paying gig Obama gave him. Nobody of any significance is going to harp on PB exclusion from entry. He can cry and whine all he likes but his audience is his own people. He is a paid hack not a unique, intellectually independent thinker like Gurion, Eban, Sharon, and many others. Along with former heads of mossad have been equally as critical. However, I think three distinct was made between who would step over the line to hurt the nation or to preserve it

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 23, 2018, 6:31 pm

      “There are dozens of not hundreds of Israeli citizens that can criticize Israel to their heart’s content without fear of being held up at the border”

      Really? “Dozens of not hundreds”? “Hundreds”, plural, like more than one hundred?

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