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J Street just took over the Israel lobby, and says it represents US Jews (thanks to Trump)

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The news on our issue from the midterm elections is that the center of gravity in the Democratic House just shifted a few degrees to the left. Progressives can boast that they’re driving this change, but the Congress remains solidly pro-Israel, and the big beneficiary is J Street, the liberal Zionist Israel lobby group.

“Overall, at least 50% of the new House majority will be made up of J Street-backed candidates,” Jeremy Ben-Ami, the head of J Street, crowed yesterday. Today J Street says, “more than half.”

Some of J Street’s endorsees are very progressive. Betty McCollum in St. Paul, MN, has called Israel an apartheid state. Newcomer Antonio Delgado in NY at one point said that Israel is not a Jewish democracy, though he walked that back later, and noted that he’s raising two Jewish children and cares deeply about Israel.

They will be up against more mainstream Democrats, such as Eliot Engel for whom Israel can do no wrong. And Sean Patrick Maloney, the ambitious Clintonite from the Hudson Valley. Both have appeared at AIPAC events, the centrist Israel lobby. Neither was endorsed by J Street.

And so yesterday nervous pro-Israel stalwarts said that a war has begun for the soul of the Democratic Party, between centrists and the left.

In that battle, J Street– which wants to keep giving Israel $3.8 billion a year–  can say that it is the new Israel lobby. It represents U.S. Jews. Yesterday J Street published a poll on Jewish attitudes and argued that it represents Jews on foreign policy. Jews are Democrats (by nearly 4 to 1), Jews are for the two-state solution and the Iran deal:

The president is also completely out of step with American Jews on key foreign policy issues. The poll found that 71 percent of Jewish voters support the Iran nuclear agreement, a notable increase of 8 percent from Election Night 2016. 67 percent oppose Trump’s abandonment of the agreement. The president’s refusal to back the two-state solution is also deeply out of step with the Jewish community. When presented with a detailed explanation of its likely contours, 78 percent support such an agreement, a significant increase from 2016 (70 percent). 75 percent want the US to play an active role in helping to resolve the conflict.

That brings me to the ideological crux of this story. Whatever you think of the two-state solution (I think it’s long-dead and the goal is democracy), the two-state solution is an article of faith in the American Jewish community and the US establishment– and something Benjamin Netanyahu opposes, with the abetting of the Trump administration.

We are seeing growing evidence that the destruction of the two-state solution is fostering American Jewish alienation from the Israeli government.

“The vast majority of American Jews are frustrated and confused and anxious about the lack of even any interest in the two state solution which has really been such a core part of our dialogue for decades,” Jonathan Greenblatt of the ADL warned Israelis earlier this year.

Samuel Freedman, a liberal Zionist, issued the same warning yesterday in Haaretz, saying that Netanyahu was the biggest loser of the election because American Jews are against Trump and for the two-state solution, and Netanyahu is alienating them:

Support for Israel in Congress and the White House had been one of the rare bipartisan exceptions until Netanyahu went all-in with an increasingly extremist version of the Republican Party. Now he owns the predictable result, which is that Israel is a partisan issue here and is bound to become ever more of one…

In tethering Israel to just one political party and one ideology in an America that is profoundly split between two, the prime minister has evidently never allowed for the turn of events indicated by the midterms: the realistic prospect that the political majority will swing back to Democrats and that the evangelical right will be outvoted by a burgeoning movement of multicultural progressives, including the vast majority of American Jews.

The Pittsburgh massacre only made the divide worse. According to J Street’s polling, 72 percent of Jews hold Trump’s comments and policies responsible for the Pittsburgh massacre. The Netanyahu government has stuck with Trump despite those attitudes, and American Jews notice.

Those Jewish attitudes now include concern about Palestinian persecution. The Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians is “coming home to roost” with U.S. Jews in the aftermath of Pittsburgh, Mitchell Plitnick wrote in Lobelog. “Americans are increasingly unable to look the other way when it comes to Israel’s long-term dispossession of the Palestinian people.”

Plitnick cited last week’s Economist/Yougov poll showing that the number of Americans who describe Israel as an ally is plummeting from 47 percent to 37 percent over three years. Chemi Shalev of Haaretz makes it clear that Jews are among the defectors: 

Although the polls indicate a slight increase in support for Israel among Republicans/conservatives, it does not offset the sharper drop in support among Democrats/liberals.

David Halbfinger reached a similar analysis in The New York Times. Pittsburgh had set American and Israeli Jews “at one another’s throats,” with Jews beginning to notice Palestinians’ treatment:

Politically liberal American Jews have been repelled by Mr. Trump’s solid support for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and by Mr. Netanyahu’s effusive embrace of Mr. Trump and his granting of a wish-list’s worth of political gifts. They range from scrapping the Iran nuclear agreement to repeatedly punishing the Palestinians and recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

Norman Finkelstein sees a “chasm” growing between U.S. Jews and Jews in Israel. As does Allan Brownfeld of the anti-Zionist American Council for Judaism, who says that in the destruction of the peace process, more and more American Jews regard Israel as a site of intolerance and racism– “not part of my family.”

An opinion poll published in June shows deep divisions between Israelis and American Jews. The survey of the American Jewish Committee (AJC) found that 77% of Israelis approved of President Donald Trump’s handling of U.S.-Israel relations, while only 34% of American Jews did. Eighty five per cent of Israelis supported the decision to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, upending decades of U.S. foreign policy and an international consensus that the city’s status should be decided through peace negotiations. Only 46% of American Jews supported the move.

The poll also found that 58% of American Jews favor the establishment of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, but only 44% of Israelis supported the idea….

In another recent survey, only a minority of Jews in the San Francisco Bay Area believe a Jewish state is important and only a third sympathize more with Israel than with the Palestinians. When 18-34 year olds were asked if they were “very attached” to Israel, only 11% said yes, compared to 45% of those 50 and older. Only 40% of the young said they were “comfortable with the idea of a Jewish state.”

Part of the reason for this alienation is Israel’s retreat from democr­atic values, its 51-year occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and intolerance and racism which is growing in the Israeli society.

Anti-Zionists are clearly a beneficiary of these trends: young Jews who believe in the right to vote for all people under a government, no matter their race.

But in mainstream politics the big beneficiary of these trends is J Street. It can now claim to be the address for Jewish pro-Israel voters and donors in the Democratic Party. Maybe it will even take stands to punish the settlement enterprise, knowing that it has a lot of new Congresspeople, and American Jews, at its back.

Netanyahu just keeps playing into J Street’s hands. Mairav Zonszein:

Netanyahu, in closed door Party meeting: “the occupation is nonsense, there are plenty of big countries that occupied and replaced populations and no one talks about them”

That most powerful force in Middle East foreign policy-making, the Israel lobby, is shifting and splitting like a glacier. Too bad it only moves at glacial speed. But it looks like we will finally be getting an open debate over Israel support in Washington. Progressives have a lot to say about that.

 

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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58 Responses

  1. edwardm
    edwardm
    November 8, 2018, 12:11 pm

    The vast majority of American Jews are frustrated and confused and anxious about the lack of even any interest in the two state solution which has really been such a core part of our dialogue for decades,” For DECADES. Plural. Some “dialogue”. Hand wringing excuse making and tone policing Palestinian supporters isn’t going to cut it.

  2. Bumblebye
    Bumblebye
    November 8, 2018, 1:17 pm

    J Street may feel as if it’s ‘won’ this election, but it just means it will now be the target of all the networked organisations that support any and everything israel does, brook no opposition, and smear and undermine any group supporting Palestine/Palestinians. They will do their utmost to get their people in and moving up the hierarchy so they can push j street in the direction they want. It won’t be the same organisation in the next couple of years.

  3. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    November 8, 2018, 2:28 pm

    Whatever you think of the dodo (I think it’s long-dead and the goal is feathers), the dodo is an article of faith in the American Jewish community

  4. marc b.
    marc b.
    November 8, 2018, 2:36 pm

    “It won’t be the same organisation in the next couple of years.”

    it doesn’t expect to be. as long as palestine remains a ‘jewish’ issue, that’s what matters.

    • Keith
      Keith
      November 8, 2018, 10:41 pm

      MARC B- “it doesn’t expect to be. as long as palestine remains a ‘jewish’ issue, that’s what matters.”

      Zionism without Zion?

  5. Mayhem
    Mayhem
    November 8, 2018, 4:39 pm

    “there are plenty of big countries that occupied and replaced populations and no one talks about them”
    and the hypocritical silence continues ……

    • annie
      annie
      November 8, 2018, 6:06 pm

      enlighten us mayhem, what “big countries” might netanyahu be comparing israel with. go ahead, name “plenty” of them for us.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        November 9, 2018, 1:23 am

        @a

        USA Canada Mexico Russia China Morocco Spain Great Britain India Pakistan Turkey Iran. There is more but that’s a start. Unless you are going to use the birth of modern israel as the historical cutoff date.

      • Misterioso
        Misterioso
        November 9, 2018, 10:34 am

        @Mayhem & DaBakr

        To be brief:

        Netanyahu, in closed door Party meeting: “the occupation is nonsense, there are plenty of big countries that occupied and replaced populations and no one talks about them”

        Bogus argument, as are yours. For the most part, the countries you cite “occupied and replaced populations” long before the United Nations was established in 1945 and those that did so afterwards, including Israel, are in violation of international law. Israel is a member of the UN and is legally bound to comply with its Charter, which prohibits the acquisition of territory by war, i.e., as reiterated in the preamble to UNSC Res. 242: “Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war…”

        As a UN member, Israel is also bound to comply with the Fourth Geneva Convention,* which prohibits collective punishment, (e.g., the Gaza Strip) and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the basis of UNGA resolution 194, which declares that refugees have the legal right to return to their homeland.

        *As declared by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC): “The whole of Gaza’s civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law.” The ICRC thus unequivocally stated that Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip constitutes a violation of international humanitarian law embodied in the Geneva Conventions. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, ratified by Israel, bans collective punishment of a civilian population.

        Nor should we forget that in accordance with international law, on 17 December 1981, the UNSC unanimously passed Resolution 497, which declared Israel’s 14 December 1981 annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights “null and void.”

        Israel’s refusal to abide by the UN Charter, etc., despite declaring it would as a precondition for admittance, should have long since resulted in its expulsion or suspension of membership as happened to apartheid South Africa.

        Furthermore:
        UN Security Council Resolution 2334, December 23, 2016: “Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, and reaffirming, inter alia, the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by force,
        “Reaffirming the obligation of Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, of 12 August 1949, and recalling the advisory opinion rendered on 9 July 2004 by the International Court of Justice,
        “Condemning all measures aimed at altering the demographic composition, character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians, in violation of international humanitarian law and relevant resolutions,….”

        Also: “In international law, East Jerusalem is occupied territory, as are the parts of the West Bank that Israel unilaterally annexed to its district of Jerusalem. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 and the Hague Regulations of 1907 forbid occupying powers to alter the lifeways of civilians who are occupied, and forbid the settling of people from the occupiers’ country in the occupied territory. Israel’s expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem, its usurpation of Palestinian property there, and its settling of Israelis on Palestinian land are all gross violations of international law. Israeli claims that they are not occupying Palestinians because the Palestinians have no state are cruel and tautological. Israeli claims that they are building on empty territory are laughable. My back yard is empty, but that does not give Netanyahu the right to put up an apartment complex on it.” (Juan Cole, http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/top-ten-reasons-east-jerusalem-does-not.html)

      • Antidote
        Antidote
        November 15, 2018, 12:17 pm

        @ mysterioso:

        “Bogus argument …. For the most part, the countries you cite “occupied and replaced populations” long before the United Nations was established in 1945 and those that did so afterwards, including Israel, are in violation of international law. Israel is a member of the UN and is legally bound to comply with its Charter, which prohibits the acquisition of territory by war, i.e., as reiterated in the preamble to UNSC Res. 242: “Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war…”

        Yours is an even bigger bogus argument. From the Israeli perspective , “big countries” are not just Canada, the US etc but also much bigger countries than Israel, such as Poland, which is almost as big as Germany and France. I just posted on the Polish issue at length, so I will be brief: The biggest violation of the principles you cite occured in Central and Eastern Europe in 45 and continuing for years, even decades after. The largest ethnic group affected by ethnic cleansing and massive expropriation of their lands and possessions were Germans, although
        there were millions of others as well. There are plenty of reasons why this has been sunk into a big memory hole, the most important being to support the myth that the defeat of Nazi Germany by the “civilized nations” somehow saved and established a better, more just and peaceful new world order, guided and guarded by the US and her allies. And we are now, because of Trump, supposed to fear that this wonderful, peaceful order will disappear. How about: good riddance to this horrendous hypocrisy? Take a look at Robert Kagan’s new lament how 70 years of peace and prosperity may come to an end. Peace and prosperity where?

        “Orderly and Humane”, now out of print, caused a bit of a sensation in the US, and claims to be the only book published in any language on its subject. Complete nonsense but typical marketing strategy.

        https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300166606/orderly-and-humane

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      November 8, 2018, 6:07 pm

      The alleged silence about the others is no reason to be silent about Israeli crimes as well.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      November 9, 2018, 2:32 pm

      You can either be a bastard or you can be whiny and needy but you cannot be all 3.

      Israel gets the attention cuz it doesn’t know what to do. Realpolitik is fine but for god’s sake don’t end up with apartheid. It looks as though you don’t know a way forward. Apartheid is a political version of gonorrhea. A never ending crisis. That is why Israel gets the attention. And Netanyahu is a scum bag.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 12, 2018, 12:22 pm

      “there are plenty of big countries that occupied and replaced populations and no one talks about them”“Mayhem”

      Yes, the operative word is “big”. Israel ain’t. It’s tiny and completely dependent. End of discussion.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        November 12, 2018, 3:58 pm

        Well said,Mooser. I also think that it is very hard to find a credible Jewish thug. Maybe it is the attention to detail. Just look at where we are now.

  6. annie
    annie
    November 8, 2018, 6:25 pm

    from phil’s “a war has begun for the soul ” embed.

    As younger voters, women and minorities move into leadership roles, Israeli interests need to adapt to the demographic shifts, opined former U.S. Ambassador to Israel Daniel Shapiro. Going forward, he advised, “It will be wise for Israel to build and strengthen relationships with these members and demographic groups, in the interest of maintaining the bipartisanship that has been such a key pillar of the U.S.-Israel relationship.”

    i’m curious, if it’s “wise for Israel to build and strengthen relationships with these members and demographic groups” is that the ‘adaptation’ shapiro was referencing? how are they going to build and strengthen relationships with groups w/ fundamentally different values? or, if he thinks israel is the party that needs to adapt, it begs the question, how so?

    the article has a big photo of linda sansour who they love to denigrate. but sansour is saying things on that panel that most progressives agree with. she not speaking on the election night panel hosted by The Intercept and Democracy Now because she’s a total outlier, she’s mainstream for the left (not to be confused with moderates/centrists). she’s exposing the same advice as ocasio-cortez and other progressives. and of course the article has to get a quote from Dershowitz, the most right wing dem position you’re ever going to find, who likes to think of himself as a moderate/centrist, but he’s not.

    Sarsour is an enemy of democracy and America, and of Israel.

    this is how he fights. one could just as easily say he was an enemy of democracy and America. Dershowitz is an enemy of democracy and America. see how easy that is? and then they get another quote on sansour. this is not about sansour, it’s about the progressive movement inside the dem party. they know this and they can’t face it, they cant argue it away, so they keep hammering on sansour. stupidity.

    • Donald
      Donald
      November 9, 2018, 12:24 am

      I read it too quickly, but if I understood him correctly it sounded like he might favor a one state solution with equal rights for Jews and Palestinians. I am not Palestinian, but it seemed fair.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 9, 2018, 11:52 am

      “To open minded people: Here is Chaim Gans’s Zionism:”

      Wonderful! Great! “L’chaim! But why are you telling us?

      Go convince the Israelis of its feasibility. It’s not the commenters at Mondo which are stopping Israel from making peace, is it?

  7. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 9, 2018, 7:17 am

    @Mayhem
    “there are plenty of big countries that occupied and replaced populations and no one talks about them”
    and the hypocritical silence continues ……”

    Are you and your soulmate the Yahoo perchance thinking of the nasty Roman Empire and Judea. Well I thought that Zios just when on and on and on and on and on talking about that “big country” and what it did (sob) to the poor persecuted native Semite population including Hebrews.

    Of course had the Geneva Conventions been around at the time the native Semites inc Hebrews might have complained about a blatant breach of the same. Nowadays Zios just urinate over International Conventions at will.

    BTW Nazi Germany was a “big country” and was into occupying other countries and replacing their populations. Great to know that you and the Yahoo are fans.

  8. bcg
    bcg
    November 9, 2018, 9:03 am

    @Mayhem: “there are plenty of big countries that occupied and replaced populations and no one talks about them”

    No, people DO talk about them – there are articles in the mainstream press on China’s treatment of minorities, just to give one example.

    The difference between Israel and the U.S. is that the U.S.-Native American story was played out a long time ago, the natives were disposed of their land over a century ago, whereas the Nakba is ongoing, it’s happening right now, it happened within living memory, and the U.S. is the main enabler of Israel.

    • festus
      festus
      November 9, 2018, 11:26 am

      Using historical crimes to justify ongoing crimes.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      November 9, 2018, 3:39 pm

      US-Indian Wars ended in the 19th Century, before international laws established as a consequence of two world wars. To not honor them in body and spirit is to say all the innocents who died or were horribly maimed in those wars died and were so maimed for nothing. I guess Zionist morality and ethics admire the cave man era.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        November 10, 2018, 7:03 am

        What happened then was very grievous but now we do not find there is a mass of First American refugees in other countries demanding a right of return, nor that a great mass of First Americans live under US sovereign power but in disfranchised state. If we could get things in Palestine to that point there would be reason for some optimism.

  9. zaid
    zaid
    November 10, 2018, 3:01 pm

    Dabakr

    “USA Canada Mexico Russia China Morocco Spain Great Britain India Pakistan Turkey Iran”

    All these countries granted the citizenship to the people living in the areas they “occupied”.

    So no occupation there.

  10. Marnie
    Marnie
    November 11, 2018, 1:00 am

    “Overall, at least 50% of the new House majority will be made up of J Street-backed candidates,” Jeremy Ben-Ami, the head of J Street, crowed yesterday. Today J Street says, “more than half.”

    the united states has lost its identity but no one seems to mind. zionist thieves and scoundrels have taken the entire nation and openly brag about it. politicians must pass muster, i.e., how low can you blow, or face the dreaded hechsher of ‘antisemite’. Do americans pay any attention to this at all? If my family is any indication, the answer is not one bit. They’re too worried about health care, taxes, and keeping their heads above water, but I hope they are the exception and not the rule. netanyahoo was telling the truth when he said it was very easy to move america. How very very sad, for americans and for palestinians.
    Are jewish people so blind in their devotion to idols not to see how dangerous the ‘state of israel’ is for jews in the rest of the world? And how many wars are engaged and how many lives are lost at the behest of the zionist state and its accomplices?

  11. Emet
    Emet
    November 12, 2018, 5:17 am

    Enjoy it while you can Philip. The liberal Jews with whom you count yourself, who have been mislead and/or lazy, are beginning to wake up to the lies of the Left. The number of Jews supporting the Democratic party is dropping. The Jews supporting J-Street are dinosaurs. Anti-antisemitism in the form of anti-Israel, anti-Zionist positions flourished under Obama. To ignore this is to ignore that the sun will rise from the east. It was fashionable to anti-Zionist and the ignorant Jews will understand the types of dangers we just witnessed in Philadelphia. The “hate industry” has a way of providing jobs and putting food on the table, for both the left and the right.

    • annie
      annie
      November 12, 2018, 5:44 am

      Anti-antisemitism in the form of anti-Israel, anti-Zionist positions flourished

      the powers that be altered the definition of antisemitism to include anti-Israel, anti-Zionist positions. lots of normal people simply do not recognize or agree this is a “form of anti semitism”. sans this new so called “form”, your argument has no legs.

      To ignore this is to ignore that the sun will rise from the east.

      i think we all get you and your cohorts have altered the definition of anti semitism. so much so you have to preface it with “in the form of”. but don’t fool yourself it’s accepted as ‘sun rising from the east’, that’s delusional. the hasbara campaign is only about decade old.

      The number of Jews supporting the Democratic party is dropping. The Jews supporting J-Street are dinosaurs.

      the polls are not agreeing with you emit. and i’m curious .. if j street (which is about a decade old) represents dinos, who does aipac represent, in your fantasy world.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 12, 2018, 12:15 pm

        “The liberal Jews with whom you count yourself, who have been mislead and/or lazy, are beginning to wake up to the lies of the Left”

        “Emet” you are doing the right thing, distinguishing between the good right-wing Jews and bad left-wing Jews.

        Why should the good right-wing Jews suffer for the sins of the Left? Why not point out the difference, so others will know which Jews are their friends and which the enemy?
        Besides, there’s the positive effect of letting Jews know which way safety and acceptance lies. As goes the Right, so goes the allrightnik.

      • Emet
        Emet
        November 13, 2018, 1:24 am

        The power and influence of AIPAC has always been over-estimated, especially by the ignorant. The leftist Jews who believe that J-Street is the new boy on the block, are tailgating to the hard core anti-Semites who are waiting in the wings for their chance to act, providing the beers and the steaks. And why do we know this? Because history has taught Jews exactly this and the violence usually originates from the Left. And what these same Jews do not realize is that they too will have their throats cut in the parking lots where a few moments before they where adding charcoal to the BBQ’s for those juicy steaks.

        If you have doubt about what I have just said, just look in the mirror and consider the energy and attention is given to this site by so called supporters of Palestinian Arabs all the while ignoring what the Arabs have done by their own hands.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 13, 2018, 9:50 am

        || Emet: … consider the energy and attention is given to this site by so called supporters of Palestinian Arabs all the while ignoring what the Arabs have done by their own hands. ||

        By contrast, consider the energy and attention given to this site by supporters of the “Jewish State” project all the while ignoring advocating, justifying, defending and supporting what Jewish supremacists (Zionists) have done and continue to do by their own hands.

        Supporters of “Palestinian Arabs” can and do call for justice, equality and respect for international laws and human rights in all situations. Supporters of the “Jewish State” project hypocritically do not.

      • annie
        annie
        November 13, 2018, 1:23 pm

        eljay, speaking of energy and attention given to this site by israel supporters, don’t you think this is sounding a little desperate?

        violence usually originates from the Left. …. they too will have their throats cut in the parking lots

        argh.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 13, 2018, 2:11 pm

        || annie: eljay, speaking of energy and attention given to this site by israel supporters, don’t you think this is sounding a little desperate?

        violence usually originates from the Left. …. they too will have their throats cut in the parking lots

        argh. ||

        Desperation for sure. Justice, equality and human rights…
        – used to equal anti-Semitism and “Jew hatred”;
        – now equal Jews getting their throats slit; and
        – will likely soon equal mass murder and genocide.

        Maybe that’s why the “Jewish State” has cozied up to justice-, equality- and human rights-free Saudi Arabia.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 13, 2018, 2:40 pm

        “The number of Jews supporting the Democratic party is dropping.”

        Yeah, it’s probably just those Conservative and Reform and secular Jews who support the Democratic party, and they don’t count.

        “violence usually originates from the Left. …. they too will have their throats cut in the parking lots”

        Don’t be alarmist, “Emet”. I’m sure the non-Jews can learn the difference. Especially if the distinctions are pointed out and sanctioned by Jews.

      • Emet
        Emet
        November 13, 2018, 5:32 pm

        Here’s one for you all. Please list 10 rights Jews have in their historic homeland. And please do not leave out rights that are connected to Jewish history and heritage. This is going to be interesting.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 13, 2018, 6:36 pm

        || Emet: Here’s one for you all. Please list 10 rights Jews have in their historic homeland. … ||

        Given that…
        – Jewish is a religion-based identity;
        – people all over the world – citizens of “historic homelands” all over the world – can and have embraced that identity; and
        – the rights of a Jewish person from “historic homeland” A may differ from the rights of a Jewish person from “historic homeland” B,
        …I suppose it depends which “historic homeland” you’re referring to.

        Personally I think every Jewish and non-Jewish person living in or up to n-generations removed from any given “historic homeland” – including (geographic) Palestine – should be entitled to justice, accountability and equality.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 13, 2018, 8:15 pm

        “Jews…will have their throats cut in the parking lots where a few moments before they where adding charcoal to the BBQ’s for those juicy steaks.” “Emet”

        You are expecting antisemitic attacks to take place at sporting event tail-gate parties? Sort of a Brisketknacht or Weinerknacht? (Or if the steak is tough, a Gristlenacht)

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 14, 2018, 12:15 am

        EMET- ” Because history has taught Jews exactly this and the violence usually originates from the Left. And what these same Jews do not realize is that they too will have their throats cut in the parking lots where a few moments before they where adding charcoal to the BBQ’s for those juicy steaks.”

        Thank you for this example of the extent to which the Mondoweiss comments section has become a forum for outrageous Zionist memes which, in fact, echo Classical Judaic memes. Has it really come to this?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 14, 2018, 12:31 am

        “Please list 10 rights Jews have in their historic homeland.”

        I’m going to assume you mean moral rights rather than legal rights, even though Zionists don’t understand morality.

        I’ll also assume that by “historic homeland” you mean Palestine.

        Jews have exactly the same moral rights there as any other human being has anywhere. And no more.

        “And please do not leave out rights that are connected to Jewish history and heritage.”

        I don’t see how Jewish history is connected with rights at all. Perhaps you can clarify why you think there could be a connection.

        “Heritage” has two meanings. The original and best is “stuff you inherit”. This can mean things that are left to you in a will, but it can also mean a body of ideas and cultural practices.

        The first type of stuff includes such things as Aunt Agatha’s ormolu clock and the family farm. The right to inherit such things is a legal right, and therefore will vary according to the local laws. Even for Jews.

        Once you have inherited the stuff, both law and morality will affect the rights you have. You may have both the legal right and the moral right to sell the clock. You do not have the moral right to let the chickens on the farm starve to death.

        The second type of stuff includes such things as Confucianism, Haydn’s symphonies, and Riemannian geometry. As far as I am concerned, they are the common inheritance of all mankind, and no group can claim any sort of exclusive use or special attachment to them.

        The second meaning of “heritage” is this annoying modern usage as equivalent to “ancestry”. Moral rights stemming from ancestry seem just as hard to find. I would suggest that an infant has a moral right to nuture by its biological parents, but I can’t think of much else.

        If you think there are some specific rights stemming from Jewish history or “heritage”, can you give an argument for them?

      • Emet
        Emet
        November 14, 2018, 2:12 am

        “Brisketknacht or Weinerknacht? (Or if the steak is tough, a Gristlenacht).” Not bad Mooser, you nearly got a smile out of me from something you have written. But unlike Kristallnacht, Jews like you are cheerleaders for the Brown Shirts. And don’t forget for a second that the Brown Shirts were Leftists. What you are participating in is pure idiocy. You need to internalize the very possibility that those you are helping don’t care about anything Jewish, anywhere, any place, any time. Go swallow that. It’s called Indigestionnacht.

      • annie
        annie
        November 14, 2018, 3:10 am

        Here’s one for you all. Please list 10 rights Jews have in their historic homeland.

        think i’ll pass. i’m not much of a proponent of historic homelands given i don’t even know where mine is, nor care for that matter, this sentimental thing for where our forefather came from 2/3/4k centuriess ago just doesn’t compel me at all. supposedly all of humanity comes out of africa. so, is that my historic homeland? whatever. the whole concept of emotional attachment to historic homeland is a non starter, for me anyway.

        the victor owns the conversation by the language that is accepted. ask a different question, one i can relate to., you might get a different answer. because your question makes assumptions that do not reflect reality; lots of jews do not have any more of a biological/historic connection to palestine/holy land than i do. my grandparents were christian ministers. hence, their religion was founded there. hence, i could claim some historic homeland there if i wanted to colonize it, i suppose. israel is at least as much of a historic homeland to me as it is to Ivanka. and ivankas are not rare, nor are her/their children or her/their as yet unborn children — at all. we’re all in this together. ;) everyones so-called historic homelands are kind of a mishmash concept when we’re discussing centuries ago.

        american jews, and all other immigrants to our county, born and raised here and you know who you are, this is your homeland certainly as much as it is mine (yes this is the only “homeland” i have ever known). information contrary to this is divisive, delusionary, agenda driven and brainwashing. certainly our indigenous, and people brought here as slaves, have a different story than ours. but this is our homeland, a term i can’t ever recall even being used during my upbringing. it simply wasn’t part of the american lexicon during my upbringing. now we have homeland security and other despicable word crap. no, take your “historic homeland” worship elsewhere as far as i am concerned. it’s all akin to white nationalist stuff as far as i am concerned.

      • Emet
        Emet
        November 14, 2018, 3:36 am

        Annie, what you are asking Jews to do is ignore the Torah. Unlike you, Jews have all this literature and history that ties Jews back to exact times and places. In effect you are denying rights to Jews and at the same time you promote rights for the Arabs which counter what you have just said is not okay for Jews. When you finally internalize this you will realize that you are calling for the destruction of the Jewish State. And if Palestine becomes another Islamic state I know that leftists like you will lose interest in the region and then return with greater zest to blame the “local” Jew for your problems, not that it’s not happening already.

      • annie
        annie
        November 14, 2018, 4:32 am

        Unlike you, Jews have all this literature and history that ties Jews back to exact times and places.

        did you watch this video? https://mondoweiss.net/2018/11/stephens-abandon-israelis/ note the israeli authors references to “myth”. and you can’t say ‘Unlike me, you have all this literature and history that ties you back to exact times and places.’ because as a 9 generation american, i do have ‘all this literature and history that ties me back to exact times and places’. it just doesn’t go back 2 thousand years. and frankly i have no surety attachment to 3k year old relatives has any meaning other than what one chooses to attach to it.

        i am not “asking” jews to ignore torah anymore than i am “asking” christians to ignore the second coming.

        In effect you are denying rights to Jews and at the same time you promote rights for the Arabs which counter what you have just said is not okay for Jews.

        what “rights of jews” are you referring to? you mean like my rights as an atheist? do you, as a jew, have some “right” distinct from other religious groups. and if so who bequeathed these rights other than the apartheid state of israel? i’m confused.

        you are calling for the destruction of the Jewish State

        because all roads lead to rome one presumes.

        leftists like you will lose interest in the region and then return with greater zest to blame the “local” Jew for your problems,

        well, contrary to the hasbara, i don’t believe one can actually “return” to some place, time, or idea one has never been to or whose parents or grandparents have ever thought of or considered. iow, i don’t blame jews for my problems so i can’t “return” to that state of mind, with zest or otherwise.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 14, 2018, 8:00 am

        || Emet: … When you finally internalize this you will realize that you are calling for the destruction of the Jewish State. And if Palestine becomes another Islamic state … ||

        The existence of religion-supremacist Islamic states did not and still does not justify the existence of a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”. (Murderers exist so it’s OK to rape is not a valid moral argument.)

        *If* Palestine becomes another Islamic state it will be a gross injustice to all of its non-Muslim citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees. That *if* does not justify the gross injustice that *is* “Jewish State”.

      • Emet
        Emet
        November 14, 2018, 5:10 pm

        Jewish rights? I asked for a list of 10 rights Jews have between the Jordan and the sea. So far no one has listed even one, which means you lot have nothing to offer the real cause for peace. You are simply bigoted hypocrites.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 14, 2018, 7:22 pm

        || Emet: … I asked for a list of 10 rights Jews have between the Jordan and the sea. So far no one has listed even one, which means you lot have nothing to offer the real cause for peace. You are simply bigoted hypocrites. ||

        Jews should have the same rights as non-Jews everywhere in the world including “between the Jordan and the sea”. The fact that you think Jews “between the Jordan and the sea” should have special rights (compared with non-Jews) means you are simply a Jewish supremacist (Zionist) hypocrite.

      • annie
        annie
        November 14, 2018, 10:53 pm

        ha! first off emet very clearly did not “asked for a list of 10 rights Jews have between the Jordan and the sea”. his initial request was all glucked up with histrionics he would never put up with if it meant him referring to the entirety of palestine as the palestinian homeland.

        but this part, almost thrilling. which means you lot have nothing to offer the real cause for peace. You are simply bigoted hypocrites.

        iow, the king sets the query, if you don’t go along and comply you’re worse than a worthless bigot. who could argue with that! LOL, king emet has spoken.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 14, 2018, 10:18 pm

        Emet, how does all literature and history tie Jews back to exact times and places?

        Could you clarify what you mean by that?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 15, 2018, 12:35 am

        Emet, I think this could be a starting point for rights for Jews everywhere.

        http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/index.html

        Of course, I hold the position that they are rights for non-Jews everywhere as well.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 15, 2018, 5:41 pm

        “And don’t forget for a second that the Brown Shirts were Leftists.”

        Oh, you bet, “leftists”! After all, the Nazis called themselves “National Socialists”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 15, 2018, 5:52 pm

        “Annie, what you are asking Jews to do is ignore the Torah.” “Emet”

        And Jews never ignore the Torah. The Torah, as interpreted by our religious authorities, rules our lives.

        (Wow, it certainly behooves non-Jews to make a detailed study of the Torah and what it commands Jews to do. So they can make Jewish intentions clear. And deal with them pro-actively.)

      • James North
        James North
        November 15, 2018, 5:54 pm

        Moose: Where’s “Grover?” Have you put him into hibernation?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 15, 2018, 8:22 pm

        “Moose: Where’s “Grover?”

        “Grover” knows when he’s licked. “Grover” has no intention of competing with “Emet”.

        “Grover” may be a sock-puppet, but “Emet” is the full panty-hose.

      • Emet
        Emet
        November 16, 2018, 4:40 am

        We see you coming Mooser. That’s right, straight out of Saul Alinky’s playbook, rule 4. When the other side makes valid points then ridicule.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 16, 2018, 9:19 am

        Emet, I’d like to see whether you are right about Mooser. Could you make some valid points, please?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 16, 2018, 2:34 pm

        “That’s right, straight out of Saul Alinky’s playbook”

        This “Saul Alinky” must be one of those self-haters, a persecution-internalizer who gave the game away, huh?
        Well, if I ever get my hands on that shaigetz, he’ll know to keep his mouth shut.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 16, 2018, 2:44 pm

        “Unlike you, Jews have all this literature and history that ties Jews back to exact times and places.”

        “Ties Jews back to exact times and places” That doesn’t sound so good.Maybe you could shred and burn all that before there’s an accounting for Zionism and the Nakba.

  12. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    November 12, 2018, 7:36 am

    How can an org dedicated to propping up a country responsible for mass murder be representative of US Jews?

    Jewish culture never worshipped human sacrifice as far as I know. Why should it now?

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