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A response to Eric Alterman’s question: ‘Does anyone take BDS seriously?’

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Eric Alterman’s July 29 New York Times opinion piece asks: “Does Anyone Take the B.D.S. Movement Seriously?” Alterman argues that the BDS campaign (boycott, divestment and sanctions) is all symbolism without any real substance or economic impact and that support for BDS has become an empty progressive catch phrase. I feel compelled to answer his question because Alterman and I are looking at the same information and coming to opposite conclusions.

I will start with his flippant remark: “with each iteration of the B.D.S. ‘debate,’ the underlying issues seem to recede into obscurity.”  He focuses on how BDS is used as a political tool in our increasingly dysfunctional Congress, rather than on the realities in Israel/Palestine.

Just to be clear, this is not about us. The “underlying issues” include the increasingly racist Israeli government that has made it unambiguously obvious that maintaining Jewish exceptionalism and privilege is a higher state value than the democracy and equality of all its citizens that is so eloquently stated in the Israeli Declaration of Independence. The “underlying issues” include a more than fifty-year-old occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, the exploding Jewish settler growth in the West Bank, the catastrophic siege in Gaza that has brought the Strip to a humanitarian catastrophe, the brutal expulsions and home demolitions that are taking place in East Jerusalem as we speak.  The “underlying issues” include millions of Palestinian refugees living without recognition of their internationally guaranteed rights and without a clear path to a viable future.

These issues have not receded anywhere and in fact are more obvious and more internationally understood than ever before thanks to YouTube, blogs, social media, human rights groups, and eyewitness reports that are readily available to anyone who wants to know.

Yes, the Israeli economy is humming, but as the Israeli government allies itself with repressive regimes from Saudi Arabia to Russia and builds its reputation as a major exporter of surveillance tools, border walls, and military machinery, it will become increasingly difficult for American Jews to happily hum along. Alterman ignores the utter failure of decades of “peace talks” and UN Resolutions.  He chooses not to see the major corporations, the pension funds, the governments, the universities, the performers that are boycotting Israel because of concern for the wide range of well-documented human rights abuses. He is blind to the major social movements like Black Lives Matter that are allying themselves with critics of Israeli policy because they recognize racism and police brutality when they see it.

Alterman complains that supporters of BDS do not recognize “Israel’s right to exist,” and quotes Omar Barghouti, one of the leaders of the BDS movement as saying “no Palestinian — rational Palestinian, not a sell-out Palestinian — will ever accept a Jewish state in Palestine.”  Language and clarity are critically important here. I would argue that states come into existence out of a confluence of many factors: aspirations, wars, migration, colonization, treaties, etc., etc., but Israel does not have any more of a “right to exist” than Ecuador or Malaysia.  Settler colonialism and manifest destiny do not have credibility in the twenty-first century. There is no such right. That argument is a veiled accusation of anti-Semitism which is used to silence critics of the policies of the Israeli state.

It is also important to pay attention to Barghouti’s full statement in which he describes the rights of the indigenous Palestinian population, the system of racial discrimination that exists, and his opposition to any exclusionary state, Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. Because I listen to and work with many Palestinians, I can say quite clearly that it is extremely unlikely that any native people would welcome the creation of a state in what was recently their homes that excludes their inalienable right to self -determination.

In fact, Barghouti’s call for a democratic secular state is something we would all support in every country in the world…. Except Israel.  This is a problem.

I hear that Alterman is tired of the “regular earful about the importance of B.D.S” that he gets as a college professor, a columnist for the Nation, and from his college-age daughter.  He sees these earfuls as “a purity test of sorts for progressives,” which I think gets us to the real problem. Progressives who support civil rights and women’s rights and LGBTQ rights want a carve out when it comes to Zionism, the national political movement that supports the creation of a state which was born out of the settler colonial movements of the European empires as well as the horrors of the Nazi Holocaust. This national political movement is used to justify policies that create severe harms to Palestinians. I would argue that it is also deeply corruptive for Jews who carry out these repressive actions and who historically have flourished in multicultural and (gasp dare I say it) Islamic societies. The Israeli government is involved in a massive project of self-ghettoization and this is very dangerous.

Additionally, for decades, Palestinians have lived under internationally-recognized occupation and siege, have experienced repeated military incursions, high rates of injury, PTSD, and depression.  They live with severe restrictions of movement of goods and people including health-care providers and clinic and hospital supplies, high rates of child incarceration and administrative detention (detention without charges or trial), food insecurity, and aggressive displacement and home demolitions as most recently and vividly seen in East Jerusalem.

They cannot be expected to live under these conditions without resisting their oppression. This would be true for any of us. Despite the level of violence that they experience on a daily basis, mostly from the Israeli Defense Forces and other Israeli security forces as well as Jewish settlers, Palestinians have been widely condemned for any violent resistance. It stands to reason that when over 170 Palestinian civil society organizations ask the international community to nonviolently boycott Israel in order to pressure the government to change policies that are clearly harmful to Palestinians, we, the international community should focus our attention on honoring that request.

So BDS is not: “Like vegetarian diets and carbon-neutral living… something that is vital to espouse, but much less important to explain, let alone carry out.” Professor Alterman, finding a resolution to these issues and injustices, respecting the needs of Jewish Israelis and Palestinians as equal human beings, is one of the more critical challenges facing our society. Boycott, divestment, and sanctions is a creative and time-tested strategy to create political and social change.  Your daughter says this is important. Listen to her.

Alice Rothchild

Alice Rothchild is a physician, author, and filmmaker who has focused her interest in human rights and social justice on the Israel/Palestine conflict since 1997. She practiced ob-gyn for almost 40 years. Until her retirement she served as Assistant Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Harvard Medical School. She writes and lectures widely, is the author of Broken Promises, Broken Dreams: Stories of Jewish and Palestinian Trauma and Resilience, On the Brink: Israel and Palestine on the Eve of the 2014 Gaza Invasion, and Condition Critical: Life and Death in Israel/Palestine. She directed a documentary film, Voices Across the Divide and is active in Jewish Voice for Peace. Follow her at @alicerothchild

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76 Responses

  1. David Green on August 1, 2019, 12:17 pm

    Alterman is generally a liberal clown, but he’s getting at something truthful about the hype and ineffectuality that characterizes the BDS movement, especially on college campuses. The Palestinian cause has been folded into “intersectionality,” to its detriment. In order for the Palestinian rights movement to seriously challenge the status quo, it’s going to have to challenge USFP at a fundamental level. That’s not what “intersectionality” does. The agnosticism of BDS regarding one state-two states is part of the problem. Alterman exploits that, in spite of being the foolish man that he is. The movement invites him to exploit that. It shouldn’t; but it doesn’t know what else to do, so it keeps doing the same ineffective thing.

  2. Elizabeth Block on August 1, 2019, 4:43 pm

    If BDS is so feeble, why has Israel diverted serious resources from security to fight it?

    And: I just read about artists demanding, and getting, action at the Whitney and elsewhere, re the Sacklers (pushers of opiates) and Warren Kanders, manufacturer of tear-gas used on asylum seekers at the border.
    People are waking up, and some of their protests are having an effect.

    • JWalters on August 1, 2019, 7:10 pm

      Absolutely! Alterman is using the cheap tactic of saying to the uninformed, “Nobody important cares about this, so don’t waste your time on it.” As Alice Rothchild’s article makes clear, it is a feeble, fact-free tactic. Alterman is an intellectual and moral buffoon.

  3. JustJessetr on August 1, 2019, 11:04 pm

    “He chooses not to see the major corporations, the pension funds, the governments, the universities, the performers that are boycotting Israel because of concern for the wide range of well-documented human rights abuses. ”

    Not one university in the Western Hemisphere boycotts Israel. Student unions or student senates may, but not the university. Unions and Senates are nowhere near representative of all students since most don’t care enough to participate in politics at that level. And please don’t try to slide Hampshire past me. Hampshire unequivocally states that they do not boycott Israel.

    Alice, if you could get that simple fact wrong, what else are you getting wrong about I/P?

    • Joshua Laskin on August 2, 2019, 12:45 pm

      Colleges and universities can’t afford to allienate their alumni donor-base; so their Boards will always play it safe. But, BDS isn’t really about money; it’s about reputation. When activist students vote BDS, they’re casting their vote in the global reputational sweepstakes. Zionists have become aroused, not that they’re losing money; but because they’ve been losing status. They want to walk public space, and feel admired, not disparaged. Their natural need for respect, has now become their greatest psychic vulnerability. Thus, Alterman’s annoyed, being left out the glowing circle of anti-Zionist comradery.

      • Citizen on August 4, 2019, 8:40 am

        Yep. Their concern is not Israel losing money, but Israel losing the moral high ground (which has never been earned.)

      • JustJessetr on August 6, 2019, 12:30 am

        But you missed the point of my comment.

        The author has the facts wrong.

  4. lonely rico on August 2, 2019, 4:38 am

    Alterman’s question: ‘Does anyone take BDS seriously?’
    should be answered with another question:
    ‘Does anyone take Alterman seriously?’
    The answer to that question:
    ‘Fewer and fewer people. His opinion(s) neither relevant nor interesting.’

  5. Misterioso on August 2, 2019, 10:08 am

    Alterman is peddling bull crap.

    By asking “Does anyone take BDS seriously” and writing a NYT article on the subject, he makes it very clear that he takes “BDS seriously.”

    “Israel’s” worldwide image is in free fall and it’s only going to get worse, much worse.

  6. James Canning on August 2, 2019, 10:16 am

    I continue to think BDS movement is actually in Israel’s own best interests. What other means are available to prompt an end to the occupation of the West Bank?

  7. mezvinsky on August 2, 2019, 12:15 pm

    Eric Alterman’s major argument was that BDS “has had no discernable impact upon Israel’s economy.” In her article Alice Rothchild tried to refute Alterman by disagreeing generally. To be more effective, Rothchild should have made specific references, if any exist, to discernable negative impact upon Israel’s economy, made by BDS.

    Norton Mezvinsky

    • DaBakr on August 3, 2019, 1:54 am

      @mz

      Sodastream is a good example. BDS claimed a victory a few years back when they targeted the company and thought it forced them to close its west bank factory which imployed 100s of Arabs working side by side with jews. The company stock tanked further lifting the bds hopes. Sodastream closed the factory and rebuilt in the negev employing Arabs Bedouin and Jews. The west bank Arabs lost their jobs except for some that could obtain work permits. Sodastream stock has surged for whatever reason. It probably has absolutely zero to do with BDS which is the point.

      • hai_bar on August 4, 2019, 9:12 am

        @DaBakr: “Arabs working side by side with the jews”

        Arabs as in Egyptians? Yemenis? Syrians..etc? working together with Jews from where? Jews from Russia? Ethiopia? Poland..etc?

        Perhaps you mean Palestinians and “Israelis”? Or sharper you mean Muslims and Jews?

        Arabs & Jews is such a deceitful use of language “DaBakr” – what comes afterwards is probably another deceitful presentation of information, even if it contains some truth (do you have soda-stream profit charts/data?

        “in the negev employing Arabs Bedouin and Jews”

        So here you mention “Arabs Bedouin” – is it so difficult for you to recognize “Palestinians”? Is it your duty or goal to – together with hordes of Zionists- commit a literal genocide of everything that is, was, and most probably will be Palestinian? Quit already, it’s going to be fruitless. Use the time instead to enjoy those privileges you have thanks to your murdering ancestors and their colonization of Palestine.

      • Nathan on August 4, 2019, 11:11 am

        hai_bar – If you have the ability to read a simple newspaper article in Arabic (or listen to a radio program in Arabic), you’d find out that also the Arabs refer to the two sides of the conflict as “Arabs and Jews”. The reason is really very simple: The Arabs don’t have any hang-ups about identity. They are Arabs, and they’re in conflict with the Jews.

        Another possibility for you (if you can’t read an article in Arabic) would be to come and participate in a demonstration anywhere in the Arabic-speaking world. For example, you might hear the following chant: “Khaibar, ya yahud, jeish muhammad sa-ya’ud!” (Remember Khaibar, O Jews, the army of Muhammad shall return). You might want to “correct” their choice of words by telling the crowd that they should scream “Khaibar, O Israelis….”, but it probably won’t be too convincing.

      • hai_bar on August 4, 2019, 5:53 pm

        @Nathan

        Are you saying that all Arabs (from your intensive reading of simple news articles in Arabic) describe the conflict as (Arabs vs Jews)? If that’s what you meant, I disagree. Arabic news articles or radio/tv programs I’m familiar with describe “Israel” as “Zionist occupation”, “Israeli Army”, or “Occupation Army”.

        What I have got exposed to so far of past footage from interviews with past PLO members and other groups incl. Hezbollah and Hamas (during Ahmed Yassin time) is that they refer to “Israel” predominantly as the (Zionist enemy), no more, no less.

        Some Arabs (including many people in my village outside Ramallah), however, increasingly and naively call Israelis as “il-Yahud”, so for example “ajo il-yahud” or “the Jews came” even though some of the soldiers mentioned are Druze or Beduins (not really Jewish), even though most of these people consciously almost always realize that fact. This sometimes quick nominal conflation between Israelis and Jews is perhaps the fruit of a long campaign the Zionists went through to make sure that they are the Jews, and only they. I think Arabs who do this, are indirectly (and some directly) playing the Zionist game of distorting language and meaning.

        “Another possibility for you (if you can’t read an article in Arabic) would be to come and participate in a demonstration anywhere in the Arabic-speaking world. For example, you might hear the following chant: “Khaibar, ya yahud, jeish muhammad sa-ya’ud!””

        Well thanks for mentioning this. “Khaibar”, in the mainstream Islamic revision of Islam history was a Jewish tribe that allegedly conspired against Mohammad and so they have a bad spot in this version of history. This makes this chant a strictly religious one and used almost solely by religious groups protesting “Israel”, or at least people who are fond of these groups. In this context, it would be accurate to say (Muslims* & Jews), because then again, some Arabs do not subscribe to this idea or to Islam as a whole and Khaibar were/are Arab and Jewish (or whatever language group that was spread in the Arabian peninsula at that time).

        * Even here this is very inaccurate as many of today’s Muslims are very Zionist (think Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain..etc). I mentioned it to emphasize on the religious nature of this chant.

        In the end, you’re not only conflating Zionist Israelis with Jews, the latter group being larger and way older than the former, you’re also nominally aligning a language group (that contains Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Atheist, and other elements) with a religious group and mix the whole thing up. This is a lot of language misuse, which is a vital component in cultivating hatred and barriers between different people intra- and inter-group, in my opinion.

      • DaBakr on August 6, 2019, 12:38 am

        @hb

        Bediouns, in case you did not know, like to identify as bedouin. Just as druze prefer druze. You can pat yourself on the back for your semantic ploy to argue a stupid point. I understsnd the differences between Arab, Arab jew, bedoiun, Palestinian, etc. as well if not better then you.

        Your point is absolutely meaningless to the two sides of the conflict. And if you truly live outside ramallah you know very well.

      • Talkback on August 6, 2019, 8:49 am

        DaBakr: “Bediouns, in case you did not know, like to identify as bedouin. Just as druze prefer druze. You can pat yourself on the back for your semantic ploy to argue a stupid point. I understsnd the differences between Arab, Arab jew, bedoiun, Palestinian, etc. as well if not better then you.”

        The main point is that nobody can identify with being a Bedouin Israeli or Druze Israeli, because the nationality “Israeli” officially doesn’t exist in your settler Apartheid entitiy.

      • hai_bar on August 6, 2019, 1:45 pm

        To “DaBakr”:

        “Bediouns, in case you did not know, like to identify as bedouin. Just as druze prefer druze.”

        Beduins in Palestine, Jordan and in general identify as Arabs (language) and to Beduin lifestyle in general, in contrast to villagers. Druze are elements in the (Arabs is in language group), they have their own interpretation of Islam/Religion (Sufi version), not Jewish (if you read my reply to “Nathan” at all).

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rNleFhNtDs

        These are Druze youth from the movement (Refuse, your people will protect you – an initiative for young Druze to refuse obligatory military draft in “Israel”). English subtitles are an option in the video.

        “You can pat yourself on the back for your semantic ploy to argue a stupid point. I understsnd the differences between Arab, Arab jew, bedoiun, Palestinian, etc. as well if not better then you.”

        Okay.

        “Your point is absolutely meaningless to the two sides of the conflict”

        Certainly not. Maybe it’s harmful to your perception of things, especially the conscious or unconscious habit to misuse language to pass a new version of land history, people’s identities..etc

        P.S. Your use of the word “conflict” is another form of this language distortion – there is no conflict in Palestine, there’s an ongoing classical colonial invasion.

        “And if you truly live outside ramallah you know very well.”

        Because I am from there and partially living there I know very well, thank you.

      • gamal on August 6, 2019, 3:09 pm

        “Beduins in Palestine, Jordan and in general identify as Arabs”

        The plural of Bedouin is Bedouin, it’s part of our charm, and while my multi-culti fluidity causes me to blush a little I am a (25%) Bedouin and Arab and Egyptian and a big dollop of Irish with Scottish twist but subsumed into the kind Banu ‘Awf , sure we like to mix it up, 100% Arab, 100% Bedu, 100% Egyptian and 100% Black British, not to go one about it or anything. I think I am a Super-Ethnic.

      • DaBakr on August 18, 2019, 12:43 am

        @tb

        So following your logic nobody over in America can identify as African American, Irish American, etc. The law doesn’t prevent anybody from identifying as anything they want but they are, if citizens, officially Israeli.

        @hrb

        I understsnd not all Israeli druze are sympathetic to the Israeli govt.and do not want to enlist. I also know plenty of bedouin. Some feel aggrieved but not most. I know bedoiun who have enlisted.

        Your point, from my perspective is that Israel is as multi-culti as many western, Hispanic and even Muslim nations. Iran for example….very multi…

      • Talkback on August 18, 2019, 4:51 pm

        DaBakr; “So following your logic nobody over in America can identify as African American, Irish American, etc.”

        That’s not my logic, but your pseudo logic. Following my logic everybody in America can identify as American, but nobody in Israel can identify with being an Israeli, because there is no Israeli nation in your settler Apartheid entity.

        DaBakr: “The law doesn’t prevent anybody from identifying as anything they want but they are, if citizens, officially Israeli.

        Nice try. The law prevents citizens of Israel to officially belong to the nation of Israel. Only Jews do. Compare that to states that are neither under Apartheid nor Nazism. The citizens of the US, France, Great Britain, Germany etc belong to the nation of these states. “Jewish” is not a citizenship and will never be. That’s Israel inherent racism and its differentiation between nationals (only Jews) and citizens is similar to Germany under Nazism where Jewish citizens didn’t belong to the German nation.

      • Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:32 pm

        “So following your logic nobody over in America can identify as African American, Irish American, etc.” “Dabakr”

        No, in America somebody’s cultural, religious, social or racial self-identification should not make any difference to their rights as a citizen, and above that as a person, even if they are not a citizen.

      • DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 3:15 am

        @tb

        Now is just foolishness. Every citizen is entitled to an Israeli passport

      • Talkback on August 21, 2019, 5:18 am

        DaBakr: “Now is just foolishness. Every citizen is entitled to an Israeli passport.”

        Is your ludicrous response an example of what you call “just showing your blind hatred and lack of logic when it comes to your obsession with israel and zionism”?

        What does the fact that every citizen of Israel is entitled to a travel document have to to with the fact that the Supreme Apartheid Court of Israel has ruled that there is no Israeli “nation” (except Jews are the nation of Israel) and that Israel differentiates between nationals (only Jews) and fake “citizens” which do not enjoy full citizenship rights as Israel’s nationals (only Jews)? Or that Jewish is not citizenship and therefore a “Jewish state” is not the state of all of its citizens like the US, France, Great Britain, Germany, etc.?

        Why don’t you give us another example of a state after 1945 which differentiates between nationals and citizens to privilige the former.

      • DaBakr on August 22, 2019, 6:11 pm

        @tb

        I think you have made far too much hay about the new iteration of the basic law that’s been in place for decades. It does not prevent any Israeli citizen from any civil or legal protection under the law. It does not allow for discrimination under the law based on religion ethnicity colour, sex, gender. And your hysterical about this. It was hotly debated. Jews, druze, bedoiun, and palestinians all protested vocally in print and in the streets. but it’s been months and nothing has changed. There will be some appropriate modifications (e.g. On language)
        . It seems to me your fury is directed at Israel specifically because it does have a few special distinctions that set it apart from other nations. It is not the only nation with specialized distinctions but it’s obviously the one that gets under your skin. I suppose you have devoted your life to total and complete equality between all nations,cultures and ethnicities in the world. If it’s homogenized, you’ll be satisfied.

      • Talkback on August 23, 2019, 5:39 am

        DaBakr: “I think you have made far too much hay about the new iteration of the basic law that’s been in place for decades. It does not prevent any Israeli citizen from any civil or legal protection under the law. It does not allow for discrimination under the law based on religion ethnicity colour, sex, gender.”

        That’s the Zionist trick, isn’t it? Claiming equality between it CITIZENS allthough only Jews are Israel’s real NATIONALS with full citizenship rights.

        You could equally claim that the Nazi’s Nuremberg laws did not “prevent any German citizen from any civil or legal protection under the law” and that these laws did “not allow for discrimination under the law based on religion ethnicity colour, sex, gender.” Why? Because you would be also only talking about Nazi Germany’s fake “citizens” instead of nationals. (And you could also claim that everything was legal what happened to these citizens unless it violated Nazi laws.)

        DaBakr: “It is not the only nation with specialized distinctions but it’s obviously the one that gets under your skin.”

        Well it get’s under my skin if a country after Nazism differentiates between nationals and citizens. IMaybe because learned from Nazi Germany’s history and how it slowly enabled the Germans to commit atrocities against the citizens it didn’t consider to be part of the its nation. It’s obvious that what gets under your skin is only when the victims of these and equal policies are Jews.

        DaBakr: “I suppose you have devoted your life to total and complete equality between all nations,cultures and ethnicities in the world. If it’s homogenized, you’ll be satisfied.”

        Another example of your hatred and lack of logic.

        There’s a difference between homogenizing nations, cultures and ethinicities (in the world) and giving all nationals=citizens equal rights within a state.

        So I suppose that you have devoted your life to a total and complete inequality between nations, cultures and ethnicities wihin a state. If it’s nazified, you’ll be satisfied. Or should I say “judaized”?

      • DaBakr on August 24, 2019, 12:59 am

        @tb

        Although I imagine you like to believe this way there is no actual “trick” implaced or employed.

        The Nuremberg laws during the third reich did not consider ‘germans’ -or- deserving of any protection from the German state. Your comparison is too outrageous to compare. Israeli Arabs and non jews have none of the issues /laws /or restrictions the German reich imposed upon jews and gypsies.

  8. Jejasalo on August 2, 2019, 1:23 pm

    In some ways I think Alterman is right – “BDS” seems to have become more a rallying call for protesting US-Israeli ties than a serious movement of genuine substance.
    I support BDS, but I wish the focus were more about improving the lives of Palestinians and stopping Israel’s criminal oppression than on being a political battle cry.

  9. Jejasalo on August 2, 2019, 1:26 pm

    P.S. I think Israel’s behavior SHOULD be in the spotlight, but not at the expense of hardcore, results-based activism. I believe there needs to be more of the latter.

  10. snaidamast on August 2, 2019, 2:41 pm

    I have read Eric Alterman’s articles in the past and I agree with everyone else here who sees the man as a buffoon.

    However, as it regards BDS, it is just one of hundreds of various movements that is attempting to fight similar issues earnestly.

    This simply cannot work in the long term due to the diverse and subsequently diffuse nature of all such movements. This is not to say that BDS has not won any victories, as it has. However, the war that BDS is fighting will continue unless the actual tactics change.

    No movement in history has ever won its claimed issues directly. Such changes in society have come about from sociological changes that many movements have begun. However, let us take a classic example of where there is a perception of change that was initiated by a movement; the Women’s Movement that began in the 1970s, though aspects of it had actually begun in the 19th century.

    The Women’s Movement appears to have changed the situation that women find themselves in relating to the former second-class citizens they were forced to endure as. The result has been numerous laws to protect women from various infringements on their rights. However, such changes have been rather limited to a great degree.

    Most women still cannot get equal pay as compared to their male counterparts in many professions. Women are still raped and attacked and many of these perpetrators escape the consequences. I believe in New York State alone, thousands of rape kits in the law enforcement’s hands are simply filed away and never developed as evidence against perpetrators. And even today, women who have been raped must go through various levels of emotional trauma in the courts to win any sense of justice. As a result, many women still do not report such abuses to the authorities since they know what will happen to them.

    However, with BDS things are very different in that the people this movement is fighting for no longer have the leisure to wait for change. And this is where one sociologist has criticized such politically, important movements; while the movements are doing their thing, people are suffering terribly.

    Thus, to make BDS more effective, it has to become more cohesive and one with similar movements where resources can be more centralized and subsequently more efficiently controlled.

    Further, most such movements appear to be very soft opponents for the people they are going up against; meaning that such movements are filled with people who have little understanding how to truly fight conflict. Instead, the “activism” itself becomes a means to an ambiguous end and subsequently becomes the overriding concern of all such movements, leaving the actual reason for the movement in the first place as a secondary endeavor.

    So what is to be done?

    From a military analytical point of view, the BDS movement is now fighting the wrong war. This is because so much of original Palestine has been absorbed into the Israeli state while fracturing the Palestinian People to the point that there is no hope whatsoever of ever achieving equality and rights for all of the dispossessed Palestinians from Israel; that ship sailed a long time ago. And attempting to deal with Israel rationally today as BDS is attempting to do is an impossibility as Israel is a classic sociopathic state, marching to its own very narrowly focused agendas.

    However, this does not mean that BDS should give up. Certainly not! However, they should be going after a goal far more achievable than the “pie in the sky” task they are attempting to achieve now; getting the Palestinians out of Palestine so that they can rest and recover as a people in a way that will lead to a rejuvenation of their culture and health.

    Of course Israel will take the rest of Palestine for themselves but it will be a rather temporary victory as Israel as a nation is finished as the younger generations in the United States increasingly turn against the Israeli state. And with Israel’s close relationship to the behemoth that is stomping all over the globe, it is highly unlikely she will find many substantial allies once US ideologies change in the long term.

    However, once they do, then the Palestinian People can begin to address their grievances from a position of strength and not their current position of tragic weakness.

    I believe, with the size of Iran and its support of the Palestinian cause, she could be negotiated with to bring the Palestinians into her borders where young and capable Palestinians can join the Iranian military forces and get training while the older of the Palestinians could develop their own and newer forms of supportive agriculture among other endeavors.

    My concept is based on the idea that defeating the Israeli state must take a long term approach and not the hoped for short-term and short-sighted BDS approach that the movement is currently working under.

    To get an in depth understanding of such an approach militarily, one must study military science. And the book for this is Captain Liddel Hart’s famous treatise on the “indirect approach”, entitled, “Strategy”, which is still available though first published in the 1930s…

    • oldgeezer on August 2, 2019, 9:51 pm

      We have a comedian.

      • snaidamast on August 3, 2019, 7:09 am

        That is the best you can say? If that is the case, what plan do you have?

      • oldgeezer on August 3, 2019, 1:45 pm

        Hardly all I can say. All I could be bothered to say. Your solution is total capitulation to a rogue state operating in violation of international law. Give up their rights, give them all they want and some magic fairy will, by some means, at some point in the future, rectify everything and make it right.

        I’ll be on board with you when the Palestinians are. Until then short thrift is all the idea deserves.

        Or in short, you’re a comedian.

      • DaBakr on August 15, 2019, 7:43 am

        @og

        your belief in so -called international rights is not only bogus but a total lie and fantasy,

      • oldgeezer on August 15, 2019, 10:33 am

        @dabakr

        I know that the rogue state of Israel, and it’s supporters, are trying to make international law irrelevant. What else would you expect a racist, human rights abusing state to do? There is, and will continue to be, pushback against the lawless state.

      • Talkback on August 15, 2019, 12:41 pm

        DaBakr: “your belief in so -called international rights is not only bogus but a total lie and fantasy,”

        What is? International rights or that he beliefs in them? You are very close to repeating Nazi propaganda. As usual.

      • DaBakr on August 18, 2019, 12:52 am

        @tb

        Yeah. I know. With you, everything about israel skirts close to nazi and the third Reich

        @og

        I actually agree the above proposed solution is absurd but I’m assuming for different reasons. The idea that the fanatical Shia iranians would recruit Sunni/tribal Palestinians is the first ridiculous assumption that comes to mind. The Palestinians in Syria didn’t fare too well with Assad and his troops as they neither fare too well in lebanese refugee camps. And that’s just for starters @snmst

      • Talkback on August 18, 2019, 4:33 pm

        DaBakr: “Yeah. I know. With you, everything about israel skirts close to nazi and the third Reich.”

        This time I was only talking about your attitude towards international law that reminded me of Nazis. I can’t help it. I have studied Nazism more than you or Israel would like.

        Now if you also want to feel like a Nazi go and serve like an occupation soldier in the Westbank.

      • Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:36 pm

        “your belief in so -called international rights is not only bogus but a total lie and fantasy,”

        That’s right! It’s Israel’s nuclear weapons which underwrite the survival of the Jewish people!

      • oldgeezer on August 18, 2019, 10:36 pm

        @dohbaker
        “The Palestinians in Syria didn’t fare too well with Assad and his troops as they neither fare too well in lebanese refugee camps. And that’s just for starters @snmst”

        Quite true. You just left out that they suffered so much because their camps were attacked and taken over by western and Israeli, yes Israeli, backed AQ/ISIS.

        While there is no shortage of blood on Assad’s hands this one is on Israel and the west.

      • DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 4:42 am

        @og

        That you blame Israel for Assads slaughter of his own citizens and Palestinians in Syrian refuge camps is absurd. Even if you hate Israel or zionism that the status quo existing under Assad before the Civil War he helped create at the northern border would be something Israel “created” is totally absurd. Dealing in reality as a pragmatic, Israel had to deal with the situation that existed during and now after the war. That you would expect Israel to not take actions responding to the shifting border situation is you just showing your blind hatred and lack of logic when it comes to your obsession with israel and zionism

      • DaBakr on August 22, 2019, 6:38 pm

        @og

        You can call Israel a “rogue” state all you want. In actuality it is meaningless. I believe Bernie Sanders called the US a rogue nation when he was fighting for the peasant militias in Central and South America but conveniently ignored he was aiding and abetting the most brutal iron fisted totalitarian entity, the USSR, Stalins baby. Sanders is every bit a rogue communist as marie le pen is a rogue rightest. So, in your book Israel is rogue. In most of the developed world Iran is rogue, North Korea is rogue. I would think Putin is rogue but nobody says that. I would be surprised if you didn’t think trump was rogue. China vis-a-vis Hong Kong? Pretty frkkn rogue.
        How about Japan slaughtering 10000s of whales illegally saying is for ‘scientific research’?
        Pretty roguish. Somali pirates supported /protected by govt.? Rogue or victim? Ang Sung Suu Kyi? Rogue or nobel Lauriate?
        Basically, nobody much is worrying about the few that call Israel a rogue nation but I appreciate your dedication to explaining why we are a criminal enterprise

      • oldgeezer on August 23, 2019, 12:16 am

        @dabakr or dohbaker. both the same

        Palestinians in Syrian refuge camps is absurd. ”

        What’s absurd is both your claim that I blame Israel and that you deny Israel was a willing and unlawful participant in that slaughter.

        Israel is/was a participant and is partly responsible for that slaughter no matter how much you deny it.

        What lack of logic? Please do tell. Is arming ISIS/AQ pragmatic? How many lives has it saved? How may lives has it taken? Similarly with respect to air cover or air force assistance in taking out the regimes infrastructure to impede their ability to defend. Yes regime. He’s a dictator and a vile creature. As is Israel and it’s leaders.

        Yes Israel is a pure match for the definition of a rogue state.

        1. Conducts massacres against defensless civilians on a regular basis.
        2. Defies and violates IHLincluding the GC.
        3. Ignores legal rulings that IHL and GC applies.
        4. Ignores legal rulings as to the legitimacy of it’s actions.
        5. Denies international law exists. Not only the state but literally you in particular. Oh except when it works in your favour.
        6. Defies over 70 UNSC resolutions which are not merely advisory and never were. Struggling to think of another country allowed to get away with violating that many UNSC resolutions.
        7.Violates it’s written commitments without hesitation. That includes the UN Charter Article 25 rendering the written word of the GoI meaningless and untrustworthy.

        Yep Israel is a rogue state. It is lawless. It respects neither it’s agreements nor agreed and signed rules of international behaviour.

        There has never been a rogue state quite like Israel and there likely never will be again.

        Until it reforms then the world would be far better off without it.

        Just for the record your mentioning of individuals in reference to the term of rogue state show’s the extreme lack of sincerity in your comment. While I think you’re scum I don’t think you’re stupid. I expect even you know the difference between an individual and a state. Sad that you need pretend you don’t.

      • Talkback on August 23, 2019, 6:00 am

        DaBakr: “So, in your book Israel is rogue. In most of the developed world Iran is rogue, North Korea is rogue. … Basically, nobody much is worrying about the few that call Israel a rogue nation …”

        Unfortunately because of Zionist indoctrination you can’t accept that Israel is number two of the world’s rogue states right after Iran according to a poll two months ago.
        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/19/us-russia-saudi-arabia-israel-iran-forces-for-bad-poll-finds

        So what is actually “rogue state”? A state that is considered to be a threat to world peace. It is also called an “outlaw state”. So why would anybody call Israel a state that doesn’t abide to international and human rights law? Not to mention rulings from its Supreme Apatheid Court? ROFL.

    • Talkback on August 3, 2019, 4:28 am

      Snaidamast: “This is because so much of original Palestine has been absorbed into the Israeli state while fracturing the Palestinian People to the point that there is no hope whatsoever of ever achieving equality and rights for all of the dispossessed Palestinians from Israel;”

      The fact that South Africa had been absorded into the Boerish state was a given when the Boycott movement started. It was not the end, but the starting point.

      Snaidamast: “My concept is based on the idea that defeating the Israeli state must take a long term approach and not the hoped for short-term and short-sighted BDS approach that the movement is currently working under.”

      Ah, I see. For a moment I thought that your comment is all about Israel finally getting all of Palestine and getting rid of all of the Palestinians.

      But how is Israel actually going to be defeated in your concept? That crucial point is missing.

      • snaidamast on August 3, 2019, 6:39 pm

        The problem with your view point and that of the previous commenter, is not that either of you are wrong in your desire to see the Palestinians gain their rights and equality but your perception of when that is going to happen is completely incorrect.

        Unless the United States collapses tomorrow, Israel will never surrender its perceived right to obtain all of the lands that it views as part of its “Greater Israel” project. And given this, they will never yield in their efforts to rid themselves of the Palestinian People.

        If either of you believe that by protesting or using any other form of rational form of civil disobedience or resistance, no matter how extensive, is going to procure what the Palestinian People are entitled to, you are living on another planet.

        Israel is doing what it is doing because the US continues to be its benefactor since so many elected officials are paid to be its benefactor while certain Arab states in the region are simply turning a blind eye to the situation. Only Iran and Syria have steadfastly refused to yield to Israeli intransigence on the matter.

        The result you are left with then is a more long term approach to t he problem, unless of course either of you have an army that can be put at the disposal of the Palestinians.

        Currently, within the US populace, Israel’s image is losing its glamour (only with Republicans is it continuing to retain steadfast support due to Christian Zionism.), and younger generations are even turning against this pitiful excuse of a nation (ie: see Norman Finklestein’s research on the matter). This means that in a generation, support for Israel may be at a point where it no longer exists with any substance in the US. Just recently, it has been reported that a primary front-organization, The Israel project, has been forced to close down due to declining support.

        At the same time both China and Russia are slowly coming into their own in terms of becoming world power centers while Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah in Lebanon and even Lebanon itself have successfully thwarted Israels plans for their destruction.

        The only result then based on these realities is to align Palestinian aspirations with these growing power centers and Mid East nations.

        Currently Israel is committing a slow form of Genocide of the Palestinian People, while the Palestinians themselves will be committing suicide by remaining in such an untenable situation.

        If they were to voluntarily leave with Israeli assistance for resettlement in another nation such as Iran, Israel will of course gain their coveted lands but it will be a Pyrrhic victory and only temporary.

        In the long term, the Israelis have completely lost this round with the growing hatred that abounds around the world towards them. Simply look at any site that actually tries to discuss this horrendous situation (The Unz review) and you will find that practically all of the commenters in such article postings will be vehemently anti-Israel.

        If you are going to fight a Devil then you must let the Devil do what it does best, which is let it use its own arrogance against itself…

      • oldgeezer on August 18, 2019, 10:44 pm

        Without the time and energy to address the larger issues I often wonder how brain dead and devoid of humanity of you have to be when you’re in competition with North Korea for the worst of the worst and at the same time trying to pretend you are a beacon of light or a democracy.

        I don’t want to beat around the bush about my opinions but Israel is not remotely a democracy. Even the CCCP had votes and elections. It’s irrelevant.

      • DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 4:44 am

        @og

        Said like somebody who obvious never experienced Israeli democracy and writes from blind ignorance

      • oldgeezer on August 19, 2019, 9:32 am

        @dabakr

        Israeli democracy is an oxymoron. It’s risible it claims to be one

      • Talkback on August 21, 2019, 5:07 am

        DaBakr: “Said like somebody who obvious never experienced Israeli democracy …”

        Ask Palestininian refugees who should be Israeli citizens how they experience Israeli democracy. Try to give another example in modern times where the outcome of an election depends on keeping unwanted voters expelled, denationalised and disenfranchised.You should know by now what examples come to my mind. But are you going to have the balls to tell them?

      • DaBakr on August 22, 2019, 7:07 pm

        @tb

        Which Palestinians want to be Israeli citizens? The millions that already are? I did not know the Palestinian people living in ramallah or Hebron (oh right, a tiny %, like less then 8% of Hebron is disputed and has Shahuda st, separated. Look at a map of Hebron and you’ll see a huge urban city overflowing with Palestinian life, hi rises, mansions, slums, malls and so many luxury cars. But it’s a strict islamic city. No movie theaters, clubs, dancing. But go ahead. Look at the 92% of Hebron that’s all Arab and tell me they want Israeli citizenship. And if you tell me they do? Ill tell you exactly why and it isn’t for love of Israel.
        I am so often accused here of everything from idiocy, racism nazism facism etc.

        Most, not all refugees from 48 Israel could have returned had they negotiated (but they weren’t a declared nationally yet)

        The Arabs in judea and Samaria never said a word about the Jordanian occupation. Then Jordan idiotically entered the ’67 war on the THIRD day and lost his holdings while Christians gained access to their holy sites

        Its so simple : negotiate or keep waiting. Hamas has made it abundantly clear when they honestly declare they will never negotiate away an inch of land until all Israel is replaced by Palestine. So, there is that. And the rest you know. Fighting is exciting, horrific and builds tenacity. Negotiating is much more difficult. We gave up the richest oil fields in Sinai and a huge geographic buffer from attack and ability to keep the suez open. We got a real peace in return although it is only the Egyptian govt. Israelis aren’t stupid. We know something like 95% of egyptians hate Israel, hate the jews there and woukd cheer our destruction.

        So keep explaining how the aggrieved refugees in surrounding Arab nations really want to be Israeli citizens but aren’t willing to negotiate with Israel because they want to be citizens so badly but nobody should even suspect for a second that it has anything to do with becoming a majority voting block sooner then later and switching things up, just a tiny bit.

      • Talkback on August 23, 2019, 6:51 am

        DaBakr: “Which Palestinians want to be Israeli citizens? The millions that already are?”

        I used the term “Palestinian refugees” to refer to the millions who aren’t Israeli citizens. Unfortunately I’m not intelligent enough to simplify it even more so that even someone like isn’t confused. Please be patient.

        DaBakr: “I am so often accused here of everything from idiocy, racism nazism facism etc.”

        It is always in your power to change yourself.

        DaBakr: “Most, not all refugees from 48 Israel could have returned had they negotiated (but they weren’t a declared nationally yet)”

        1.) You know very well that even Israel’s non Jewish citizens are considered to be a “demographic threat”. And you know very well that this is exactly the only reason why the refugees are kept expelled even if they were all saints whose only goal was to save the bodies and souls of the Jewish people.
        2.) The right of return is enshrined in international law. You will find it also in the definition of the Crime of Apartheid as one of the rights that an Apartheid regime could deny to maintain being an Apartheid regime. So no, the right of return is not negotiable in itself, but what the UN calls “inaliable”. So how could one party even “negotiate” with another to restore a right (right to return, right to nationality) when the latter insists that this fundamental right needs to be violated for “Jewish and democratic” reasons which is the legal explanation why every fundamental right can be violated by Israel’s Supreme Apartheid Court in full accordance with one of its Apartheid Basic Laws?
        3.) I don’t understand what you mean by “(but they weren’t a declared nationally yet)”. Palestinians have been a nationality since 1925. Contrary to Israel’s racist and disenfranchising nationality law all subjects of the predecessor state (Turkey) who habitually resided within Palestine became IPSO FACTO citizens of Palestine because of Palestine’s nationality law. This is actually customary law when states are created and the new nationality is transfered to its habitual residents. This is also the reason why it is reflected in the partition resolution.

        So let’s summarize your response. I asked you to try to give another example in modern times where the outcome of an election depends on keeping unwanted voters expelled, denationalized and disenfranchised. And what’s basically your response? The expelled, denationalized and disenfranchised are to blame for this anti-democratic policy.

        So don’t act surprised if the accusations of idiocy, racism, etc. against you are going to continue.

  11. wdr on August 2, 2019, 7:37 pm

    Before Alice Rothchild tells Israel to commit national suicide, she should (literally) put her own house in order by giving her house in Massachusetts back to the American Indian tribe she stole it from. I know nothing about her, but I would be surprised to learn that her family has had any connection with Mass. for more than two generations- whereas the Jews have had what is now Israel as their central connection for 3000 years. How can she near to live for even 24 more hours in property she stole from someone else? Secondly, the posting just above suggests that Palestinians align themselves with Iran. Fine, if you want to see more dead Palestinian fighters, killed by the Sunni powers who hate Iran.

    • eljay on August 2, 2019, 10:39 pm

      || wdr: … the Jews have had what is now Israel as their central connection for 3000 years. … ||

      I don’t doubt that people all over the world – citizens of homelands all over the world – who have chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish have an ethereal, religion-based “central connection” to geographic Palestine.

      But geographic Palestinians – the indigenous population of geographic Palestine – have a real, tangible connection to their actual homeland of geographic Palestine.

      How can Zionists near to live for even 24 more hours in territory they stole (and continue to steal) from someone else?

      • DaBakr on August 22, 2019, 8:35 pm

        @ej

        Again, like the old geezer keeps referring to Israel as a ‘rogue’ nation (which is his right) you have steadfastly adhered to the definition of Jewish people as a “religion based identity”. I can’t really find any definition that hews that narrowly to jews but as with og your perfectly able to express your view.

        I just wonder if you did widen your understanding of what being Jewish or being descended from a centuries long line of other jews how that could effect your view of Zionism or Israel? I mean, you theoretically could be just as opposed to zionism even with a broader understanding of the differences, nuances, ethnic, racial and class based between the actual religious practice and doctrine and the idea of being Jewish.
        E.g. an older Ethiopian jew (theoretically the oldest jews in the world) may feel that what binds them to all other Israeli jews is the Jewish religion but if you asked them if their identity was a religious-based one that made them equal in jewish experience to the Mizrahi jew whos family were 30 generations in Iraq. I think you find that like any old people, culture, ethnicity, and place in society are intertwined with this ‘religious based identity’ dogma you adhere to.
        If you think it would have been possible for a large community of jews in say, northern Africa to just up and proclaim, ” we no longer choose to be jews ” and that would have washed with the Muslim rulers, forget it. If they said they choose to be nothing? Probably killed. Possibly, they might have converted to islam but then you get to the 22 Islamic religion based identity nations today.
        What is the difference?

        Anyway, I’m not trying to convince you to support Israel or zionism. (If I could do that with anyone on MW id probably be hearing from schneerson himself) I just don’t think you need that dogma any longer to express your view. Your getting older, supposedly wiser. Hone your skills. Sure, as a young person in, I’m guessing, a very secular society identifying as Jewish may seem absurd of one isn’t observant or even religious. It may stay this way. Society might become more religious and there will always be people who choose a religious identity who you undoubtedly are correct about. I just disagree that the founding of Israel and the zionist movement in the late 19th had much to do with that

      • eljay on August 22, 2019, 9:22 pm

        || @aak: @ej … you have steadfastly adhered to the definition of Jewish people as a “religion based identity”. … ||

        No, I have steadfastly adhered to the definition of Jewish as a religion-based identity.

        My understanding is that it can only be acquired by:
        – undergoing a religious conversion to Judaism; or
        – being descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.

        My understanding is that it cannot be acquired by:
        – being born in or living in Israel / “Jewish State” / “Judea & Samaria” / “Land of Israel”;
        – speaking Hebrew; and/or
        – partaking of Jewish culture and cuisine.

        Please do let me know when that changes.

      • RoHa on August 22, 2019, 10:46 pm

        “My understanding is that it cannot be acquired by:

        – partaking of Jewish culture and cuisine.”

        So eating bagels now and again doesn’t make me Jewish? Are you sure?
        At the risk of insulting you, I’d like a second opinion from Mooser.

      • Talkback on August 23, 2019, 4:56 am

        DaBakr: ” just wonder if you did widen your understanding of what being Jewish or being descended from a centuries long line of other jews …”

        Are Christians a people, race, ethnicity being descended from a centuries long line of other Christians? If not, what’s the difference to being Jewish?

      • Mooser on August 23, 2019, 2:20 pm

        ” I’d like a second opinion from…”

        Of course you would, and I, who was once a Saucier’s Apprentice, studying to become a Chef Rabbi, am just the boychik to give it you. As the Whole-Earth Megillah says: “You are what you eat.”
        And consuming the occasional bagel may give you the strength you’ll need to wrestle with an angel on horseback, should the need arise.

      • Keith on August 23, 2019, 5:02 pm

        TALKBACK- “If not, what’s the difference to being Jewish?”

        A core component of Jewish ideology is the belief that Jews are a people. The primary criteria of “peoplehood” is that those affected believe themselves to be a people and act accordingly. Peoplehood is an ideological construct. At the beginning of the twentieth century, Reform Judaism sought to separate Reform Judaism from the notion of peoplehood to become just a religion. Not any more. Jewish Zionism empowered by the Holocaust has reestablished the ideology of Jewish peoplehood based upon birthright. It is a reworking of the ideology of Classical (medieval) Judaism into secular form. This belief in peoplehood (kinship) has consequences.

      • Talkback on August 24, 2019, 5:51 am

        Keith: “A core component of Jewish ideology is the belief that Jews are a people.”

        Racializing Jews is just an anti-assimilation psy-op. Because if Jews or antisemites claim that Jews belong to a “people” membership is written into your DNA and you simply can’t quit. And then they make you believe that gene pool is more important than individuality and that you have to sacrifice the latter. Otherwise you are a “traitor” to the Jewish “people”. Catch 22.

    • Keith on August 3, 2019, 12:39 am

      WDR- “… whereas the Jews have had what is now Israel as their central connection for 3000 years.”

      Metaphysically perhaps, however, this “longing for the sacred soil” is a new invention. Israel had one hell of a time recruiting Jews to make aliyah up until about 1967 and the six day war which signaled the gentrification of a militarily secure Israel, a glamorous outpost of empire analogous to India under the Raj. The notion that ATHEIST Askenazi Jews were motivated by the religious connection to the metaphysical Israel, except as a disingenuous justification, is ludicrous.

    • RoHa on August 3, 2019, 2:56 am

      I watched a lot of old films on late night TV. As a result of that, I have a sentimental connection to New York. Does this give me any rights there, even though I am not a US citizen?

      • eljay on August 3, 2019, 10:13 am

        || RoHa: I watched a lot of old films on late night TV. As a result of that, I have a sentimental connection to New York. Does this give me any rights there, even though I am not a US citizen? ||

        Of course. It would be entirely wrong:
        – to deny you the right to return to your ancient and one true homeland*;
        – to establish in it as large as possible a supremacist “RoHitic State”;
        – to do whatever “necessary evil” is required to maintain it.

        And if anyone complains about all the (war) crimes you insist on committing, just sigh and tell them that all you really want is “peace”. (jon s can explain how that works.)
        ____________________
        (*Doesn’t matter in the least if you have no actual ties to it.)

      • DaBakr on August 22, 2019, 8:39 pm

        @rh

        You have every right to go there and try and find a 600 Sq ft. studio for under $1,000,000 like all the other people’s from every corner of earth.

        If your talking upstate? Sure. Lots of land. You could probably find an abandoned American style dining car diner and spruce it up for not too much.

      • RoHa on August 22, 2019, 9:34 pm

        “like all the other people’s from every corner of earth.”

        So the sentimental connection doesn’t give me any rights I would not have had without that connection.

      • echinococcus on August 23, 2019, 5:55 pm

        RoHa,

        The sentimental connection doesn’t give you any rights, true, but I am pretty confident that you could sue and collect damages for the pain and suffering caused by the pons asinorum apostrophe.

      • RoHa on August 23, 2019, 10:41 pm

        Thanks for the tip, Echinococcus. I’ll find a smart lawyer to handle that. I’ve heard there’s a bloke called Dershowitz who is pretty good at that sort of thing. Do you know anything about him?

    • Talkback on August 3, 2019, 4:13 am

      wdr: “Before Alice Rothchild tells Israel to commit national suicide, …”

      wdr wants to tell us that the state of Israel and its Apartheid regime are so interconnected that the one can’t exist withouth the other. As if Germany couldn’t exist with out being Aryan (or volkish German) or South Africa couldn’t exist without being Boerish.

      Well, wdr, if that is really the case than Israel should really cease to exist. We don’t need another racist state which is not the state of all of its citizens. That’s what most of us learned from the past.

      wdr: “… whereas the Jews have had what is now Israel as their central connection for 3000 years.”

      Ah, now the connection is even “central” and that justifies colonization and expulsion. Must be a Hasbara update.

      wdr: “How can she near to live for even 24 more hours in property she stole from someone else?”

      How can the vast majority of Israeli Jews is the more relevant question. Especially because all of it happened in the post-Nazi era when international law changed and human rights law were introducded.

    • oldgeezer on August 18, 2019, 10:52 pm

      @wdr
      “- whereas the Jews have had what is now Israel as their central connection for 3000 years”

      Blood and soil wdr?

      No Jews have not had a physical connection to what is now Israel. An emotional one perhaps. Not for me to judge.

      ” How can she near to live for even 24 more hours in property she stole from someone else? ”

      hey good question. Ask zionists that and let me know the answer will you?

  12. Somervillein on August 3, 2019, 12:15 am

    BRAVO, Dr. Rothchild! The BDS movement may have some weakness; but the case for Palestinian rights has none–yet has been ignored or frustrated for more than 8 decades. I only regret that Palestinians have been forced to rely, at this very late date, on such a mild means for some justice, which they so clearly deserve.

  13. bpm on August 6, 2019, 1:11 pm

    I can’t believe The Nation still employs Alterman, a willfully dishonest “intellectual.” He is the worst type Zionist hiding under label of progressive Jew.

    • Mooser on August 6, 2019, 4:29 pm

      “He is the worst type Zionist hiding under label of progressive Jew.”

      That’s the way the matzoh crumbles…

      • DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 4:49 am

        @msr

        “…….. hiding under the label of progressive jew.”.

        Omg. Again, we agree. WTF? Is the world coming to an end?

      • Mooser on August 19, 2019, 12:30 pm

        …sometimes, into a half-baked cracker.

      • DaBakr on August 22, 2019, 8:43 pm

        @msr

        are you calling me a cracker? is that a still a very nice thing to say these days?

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