Here is the National Jewish Democratic Council attack on Walt and Mearsheimer. It includes the NJDC’s head, Ira Forman, arguing in the Jewish Week, that a group of neoconservatives could never have bullied Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld, et al into going into Iraq. The idea is "absurd," he says.
This is the standard line in the Democratic Party, even among liberals. They ought to study Jerrold Nadler, who says the neocons came along with their forceful ideas at just the right moment. They ought to study Glenn Greenwald, who blames the Israel-centric neocons for the war. Or study The Best and the Brightest, or the history of the Peace Corps, or the saga of Ollie North–all cases in which ideologues who had access to the White House successfully pushed their clearly-articulated policy agendas, for good or ill. I’m not blaming the Jews; I’m blaming some rightwing Jews.
I understand Forman’s defensiveness. He must distance the Democratic Party from Walt and Mearsheimer in the same way that Pelosi distanced the Party from Jimmy Carter even before his book was published a year ago–lest fundraising would somehow be compromised. Now is the time when real democrats should be analyzing this war to understand how and why we got into it; and that means understanding that the neocon agenda of remaking the Middle East was forceful and persuasive for a lot of weaker minds, including Bush and many Democrats…
Well at least the debate is on!
How were Powell, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Bush bullied into war, asks Forman:
As documented in Mearsheimer and Walt's book, we know Rumsfeld was on the bullies' side to begin with because he signed the pro-Iraq war letter to Clinton in 1998 sent by the neocon Project for the New American Century. Cheney, in his younger and smarter days, had opposed invading Iraq (as shown on recently circulated video), even listing all the correct reasons such as causing civil war, etc. Perhaps Cheney lost neurons during his multiple cardiac procedures. And Bush never had many neurons to begin with, it would appear. However, no doubt what neurons they had were brainwashed by faulty intelligence coming from Feith's lair. As reported in George Packer's "The Assassins' Gate" (pp 444-5), during Powell's goodbye meeting with Bush Jan 2005, Powell complained about the fact that the Defense Department had too much power in shaping foreign policy. Powell specifically pinpointed Feith.
Former Senator Abourezk's review of M&W isn't groundbreaking, but it has some interesting anecdotes of what life is like in a Congress under occupation–
link to calitreview.com
He describes an early encounter with an AIPAC employee named Wolf Blitzer.
This is where the *fun* really begins.
If the idea (true and verifiable) takes root in the general population that the Lobby has the American political class completely under its control and this idea begins to circulate freely at all levels, but no politician dares to speak about it, then people begin to laugh… raucously. This laughter is very subversive. This laughter endangers the entire system. The final effects of a backlash against an emasculated political class could be catastrophic and not just for the lobby.
Its still a facade of a mountain.
"debate".
Its still a facade of a mountain.
"debate".
Its still a facade of a mountain.
"debate".
The responses to W&M would appear to be confirming W&M's thesis to a capital T. QED.
This scenario is a behaviorist's stimulus-response dream. Except that the actors are not rats but the apex of the evolutionary pyramid.
And not a sign of embarrassment amongst W&M's targets, leave alone guilt.
Meanwhile the suppurating Israel continues on its inexorable path to lebensraum at the expense of the inferior races.
"And not a sign of embarrassment amongst W&M's targets, leave alone guilt."
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Evanj,
Look up the word "chutzpah" here:
link to onelook.com
Philip,
You say you are not blaming "the Jews", just some "right-wing Jews", but your commenters tend to go a step further – They are blaming THE JEWS! Of course Jews are going to be defensive when people start throwing around terms like the "jews are to blame for this war". Not only is it inaccurate, but it's just the sort of thing that got millions of Jews slaughtered and/or forced to live as second class citizens not very long ago. Perhaps they fear "debate" on this issue because they lack confidence that the debaters will simply grab a bat and beat them to death in order to settle the debate. It's not like there hasn't been a precedent. As your commenters sneer about the scared little Jews and claim that this fear is either paranoia or a mendacious attempt to manipulate the sheeple, they empower every unstable Buford Furrow to visit his local Jewish Community Center and protect his country. Does this mean the neo-cons didn't have a strong influence on the Bush administration? No, of course not, but we are now well into the demonization of a group of people and a distortion of their ideas that indeed goes beyond the pale. A populace that is addicted to Britney Spears, American Idol, and the X-Files is not going to sort through the nuances and contradictions. They are simply going to say Jew = Bad. Worse, Jew = Evil. And you can cry all you want that you're a left wing Jew, it's not going to make a bit of difference to the Furrows of the world.
Evanj – Lets do a little experiment. Lets get your real name and publicize that you regularly masturbate to the images of small children. We know that you regularly pleasure yourself, and while we don't have definitive proof that your are fantasizing about little boys and girls while you do so, we do know that you sometimes watch little boys and girls, and we have zero proof that you don't fantasize about them. If we were to actually share these accusations with your family, neighbors, and work colleagues we can anticipate that you would deny them and attempt to discredit the accuser. Your family would also likely treat the accusations as highly skeptical and also seek to discredit the accuser. And Wa-La, classic stimulus-response.
Thank you for your time.
I agree that antisemitism lurks in the definitive article "The" as in "The Jews".
Precisely the abuses we are talking about are the acts of "Some" Jews, a small, rich and powerful minority of a small minority, a group that however small it is encloses within itself an amazing spectrum of human types, from the Haredi yeshiva nebbishes to the neo-Nazi thugs just apprehended in Israel.
You have completely disarmed us Jan. Let those who clamored for war in Iraq and clamor yet again for war with Iran hide under the skirts of their ethnicity unbothered. Let them buy our politicians (cheaply) and impose their and Israel’s will upon all of us. Hundreds of thousands have and will die but that’s not important. Your logic is convincing though. I'm sure you won't hear a peep from any of us again. We gentiles are simple people. I remember this logic from childhood. Moe, Larry and Curly = funny. Moe, Larry and Curly = Jewish. Jewish = funny. I like Jewish. Perhaps you are right when the bombing starts in Iran you may want to get out of town. Rest assured though, I will hide as many as I can.
So Jan..
According to you we should not discuss the Jewish Israeli centric element in our current FUBAR…because it scares you?
Because according to you Americans are too stupid to understand the difference between THE JEWS and SOME Jews? Well, we arent' that stupid, neither are we natural bigots. If we were all the natural born anti-semites poeple like you live in fear of then the Jews in question would never have gotten as far as they have in our government.
So let's just let just sweep this Israel abberation in US policy under the rug and let it continue until it really does tar all the Jews and blows up in everyone's face…is that your preference?
Better to identify who and how we really did get into this mess.
Its a fantasy that military power succeeds at changing hearts and minds.
It has little to do with Israel-centrism.
Now holt on just a gosh-darned minute here. You boys are messin' up the plan, don't you see?. It says right here in my Scofield Transmuteulated Bible that The Jews are Gawd's Chosen People ™ and thats the final word as far as I'm concerned. Now, you good boys that are getting antsy about them The Jews getting more than their fair share, just settle down. Keep in mind that in the good book of Revelations, may it come to pass today, The Jews get smoked along with all the rest of the heathens. All except that one hunnert fo-fo thousand or so that join up to the Gospel way. We'll deal with them leftovers later, unnerstand what I'm saying.
I ain't been sweatin gravy over this for the last twenty years to see it go flaming down around me at the last minute. Leave them The Jews alone, and let 'em keep up their perifidious ways. Gawd will sort 'em out, what's left of 'em.
The center of the problem is how politics is financed in the USA. Perhaps you remember this quote from M&W (taken from the Sunday Times:
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They quote the experience of a Senate candidate who was invited to visit AIPAC early in his campaign for “discussions”. Harry Lonsdale described what followed as “an experience I will never forget. It wasn’t enough that I was pro-Israel. I was given a list of vital topics and quizzed (read grilled) for my specific opinion on each. Actually, I was told what my opinion must be . . . Shortly after that . . . I was sent a list of American supporters of Israel . . . that I was free to call for campaign contributions. I called; they gave from Florida to Alaska”.
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That is really the nub of it, Lonsdale, who was running for the Senate in Oregon received donations from "Florida to Alaska". If people from all over the USA can contribute to local elections in other states, than that opens the door for special interest groups to control America's policies. Senators and congressmen are not representing the people they are said to represent… They can't, and they cannot reform the system either, because all the lobbies would gang together to save the system as it is.
This is a failure of the system and I think it is similar to kidney failure, the body poisons itself and all the other organs fail… and the patient dies.
This "democratic kidney failure" is why Americans are not only joined to Israel at the hip, it is why they have no universal health coverage and it is why the nation is awash is pistols and assault rifles… etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Except for a massive, grassroots citizen's movement to reform campaign financing things are going to get "worser and worser".
Yes Dave, but the good news is that we can blame THE JEWS!!!
David Seaton wrote: "Except for a massive, grassroots citizen's movement to reform campaign financing things are going to get "worser and worser"."
Yes, you are right, but in my opinion, it is also the other way around. Things will have to get much worse for any grassroots movement to materialise. Americans are too spoilt. They live in a country that has never been invaded, never seen a foreign army bomb its cities to the ground, never experienced occupation. None of this will ever happen probably, but for such a spoilt nation it will probably suffice to experience a huge economic crisis and a string of big and embarrassing failures in its military campaigns abroad, events that might end America's hegemony and might wake Americans up from their barbeques and ballgames and trips to the shopping mall. The blood of American soldiers, the casualties, will also help. Nobody really gives a damn about those hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and the two million Iraqi refugees. All everyone is talking about is the 3,000 American soldiers who died for nothing. Read what Alex has written on this blog about blood. He means primarily one's own blood. For any meaningful change, more American blood will have to be spilled. And tons more of innocent foreign blood. Only then will Americans start paying attention, will start asking questions, will hopefully take their country back from the lobbies and the special interests and will put all those warmongers in jail, where they belong.
In short, America needs an "earthquake" to shake her up. She shall get one because that's the price to be paid historically for such hubris and arrogance as we are witnessing today.
An out of control world power with corrupt rulers, a whole class of bloodthirsty sycophants and an indifferent citizenry tends to draw the ire of the Gods historically.
We ain't seen nothing yet.
Disclaimer: In discussing America's experience, I was thinking about 19th and especially 20th century warfare. Think Hiroshima, Dresden, the Eastern Front etc. What happened in the War of Independence is not even remotely comparable and the US was not an independent nation yet. As for the Civil War, for all the tragic deaths and great battles it was an internal affair which is not comparable to what Europe, Russia, China and Japan experienced in WWII alone.
I'm trying to imagine a best case scenario and wanted to know what people thought. If the Israelis and Palestinians come to a realistic peace agreement (under heavy pressure from the US and Arab states) with a partition of Jerusalem, return of the occupied territories or equivalent land swap of equal value, viable connector to Gaza, and a satisfactory right of return solution, would the Israeli Lobby lose much of its reason for existing and thus its power? An Israel at peace would not require the sort of vigilance that an Israel at war demands of American Jews. An Israeli-Palestinian peace could also go a long way towards alleviating anti-US sentiment in the region. I'm not sure that this last point is necessarily true, but it surely couldn't hurt. With the eventual weakening of the Israeli Lobby and heightened awareness of the corrosive affect of other lobbies on key issues, could not the system reform itself? I think American Jewry has an important role to play in pressuring Israel to make concessions in any peace agreement. This will be useless, however, if similar pressure is not also placed on the Palestinians to accept a reasonable offer and to give up the pursuit of Israel's destruction.
The unfolding disaster Middle East is the fault neither of the THE JEWS or SOME JEWS.
Let me suggest that real guilty party is THE JEWISH ESTABLISHMENT — or most of it anyway.
The Jewish establishment is much more right wing and pro war than the average Jew. AIPAC, ADL, The Zionist Organization of America,, The Conference of Presidents, JINSA, etc. never tire of inciting hatred for Arabs and Moslems and trying to trigger a "clash of civilizations" that they think will benefit Israel.
The unfolding disaster Middle East is the fault neither of the THE Christians or SOME Christians.
Let me suggest that real guilty party is THE Christian Fundamentalist ESTABLISHMENT — or most of it anyway
Why single out the jews?
The extent of dual loyalty that so many American Jews have is gonna trigger a serious backlash.
As a Christian, saddened by the balkanisation of my country it dismays me that Jews refuse to discuss the impact of their dual loyalty. Jews make up much of the U.S. elite, due in no small part due to their hard work and intelligence. But they must become America Firsters! They are the elite. If they wont provide an example of putting America first then how can we ask Hispanics to give up their identity and become Americans?
Do Jews really want an incoherent, destabilised balkanised America?
^
I am happy to be a leading proponent of dual disloyalty. US stinks and Israel also stinks. Admit it. Happy holidays to all.
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"Do Jews really want an incoherent, destabilised balkanised America?"
Hmmm. Not sure about ALL Jews, but for the elite I think it all depends on how fast they can establish a position in China.
link to haaretz.com
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