Steve Inskeep of National Public Radio did a superb interview with Iranian President Ahmadinejad today in which he asked him about his disgusting threat, to wipe Israel off the map. Ahmadinejad explained it in much the way that he sought to do to CBS two years ago, and which "60 Minutes" failed to report, that he was in favor of complete democracy in historical Palestine, i.e., a binational state and an end to Zionism. "Our proposal has been to offer the Palestinian people a free referendum. Everyone who lives in Palestine [should be able] to participate in a referendum to decide the future and the nature of its government." So Ahmadinejad sounds like an anti-Zionist. Views not that different from many commenters on this blog. Though he refuses to use the word "Israel." Like when I visited Syria, and my friends walking the streets with me spoke of "Disneyland," lest someone overhear us talking about the Jewish state.
I wonder what multicultural Americans, about half of whom are for Obama, would think of these answers if they were more widely distributed. Notice that Ahmadinejad talks about colonizers oming to the U.S.--and how would we feel? Kudos to NPR for bucking its own audience in airing these answers. Especially after the fear-mongering at the U.N. yesterday. But the excerpts:
NPR: Let me delve into two more areas. As you know, Mr. President, you are known in much of the world, and not only in the United States, as the man who wants to "wipe Israel off the map." Are you?
A: Is the problem of the U.S. government the Zionist regime? I believe the extremity to which the U.S. government has gone to extend support to the Zionist regime has caused the U.S. government problems around the world.
NPR: you accept the label of the man who wants to wipe Israel off the map? You're not?
A: Please pay attention to the fact that there are two issues that go side by side in this discussion. The first part is the proposal we have given to resolve the problem of Palestine. For 60 years, wars and killings have been going on over there.
Every peace proposal that has been put on the table so far has failed to give results. Why? Because it neglects the rights of the Palestinian people. Our proposal has been to offer the Palestinian people a free referendum. Everyone who lives in Palestine [should be able] to participate in a referendum to decide the future and the nature of its government.
Let me create an analogy here — where exactly is the Soviet Union today? It did disappear — but exactly how? It was through the vote of its own people. So therefore in Palestine too we must allow the people, the Palestinians, to determine their own future.
And then the second side of this same issue, and I'd really like to invite you to pay attention to it. Especially you — you must, because you are always being subjected to [the] unilateral sort of information that is coming from the administration here.
Let's ask ourselves, where exactly did the Zionist regime come from? Palestine has existed historically with people who live there for thousands of years. Then at gunpoint several million of the indigenous people there were forced out of their homes and became displaced. And it didn't stop there; others were brought from elsewhere in the world to replace them. How can you accept this regime?
One other comment. Notice his reference to the Soviet Union disappearing, as its constituents broke away. This reminds me of Noam Chomsky's understanding of the right of a state to exist. Did the Soviet Union have a right to exist? And is there a way to discuss all these things without Holocaust hysteria kicking in? Alas, Ahmadinejad has contributed to this fearful climate....
I'm so glad to see Phil admitting he's with Ahmadinejad. I, myself, would like to see Israel NOT be wiped off the map, so let's resolve to wipe Ahamdinejad off the map first. And, why not, Phil with him?
Of course, when I say wipe Phil off the map, I merely mean replace him with a more balanced individual.
I don't think that Ahmenidijad really wants what he says he wants.
If, as stated he would accept (and presumably the Palestinians and all of the Arab world should accept) the results of a plebiscite of current residents of the land, then the whole land would be Israel, by a slim majority.
That would be an unjust solution.
A more just solution would result from an election (a plebiscite is unnecessary) within boundaries.
That already occurs, in both settings.
In Israel such actions result in 90 day campaigns, much name-calling, fear-mongering, but when its over a peaceful transition of power.
In Palestine, it's resulted in a presidency fighting with a parliament and enacting civil war. The Hamas-led majority in parliament, refused to acknowledge law passed by its predecessor parliament, as if a new government meant a blank slate, no law, no treaty, no precedent.
And, if he accepts the present, what will happen to his contention about the past? Will he continue to support the efforts of revolutionary theocratic parties? Or will then say, "they voted, accept it".
I'd like to remind from an event in American history. That is the plebiscites in Nebraska and Kansas on whether to become free states or slave states immediately before the civil war.
Nebraska overwhelmingly voted to be a free state. In Kansas, supporters of each attempted to stack the deck, enlisting supporters to move to the territory just so they could vote. John Brown learned his skill at terror there, and then applied it at Harper's Ferry.
Ultimately resulting in civil war, the worst outcome possible.
It is the ONLY prospect that revives the concept of a "Greater Israel", as the civil war in 1948 allowed the annexation of a larger partition, and the 1967 war allowed the annexation of the West Bank and Golan.
Multiculturalism does not have a good history, or any history for that matter(at least in recent memory), in the the Middle East. Unless you consider dhimmitude multiculturalism. If Israelis and Palestinians are united in one state, it could lead to civil war like Lebanon. Is Lebanon even a democracy? I don't understand why Phil or anybody else for that matter keep bringing up the one state idea. I do understand why Palestinians want a one state solution and it is so they could plunder Israel. They know how rich the Israelis are.
There is a lot more multiculturalism in Israel than anywhere in the Middle East. The Arabs won't even send their kids to Israel for free surgery. A student exchange program would be inconceivable. And those following Wahabism are fundamentally anti-multicultural.
Actually, one of the motivations for the Arab League recognition offer to Israel was for access to Israeli hospitals.
They're the best in the region, and both patients and doctors would be well-served if the Arab countries established diplomatic relations.
Ahmenidijad has other objectives than Arab unity or more importantly a Middle East whose fulcrum is on the Mediterranean, rather than east.
"The Arabs won't even send their kids to Israel for free surgery."
Another example of the heartless crazyism of Arabs generally.
On the other hand how many Arab children have died because the ambulances they were in couldn't get through Israeli checkpoints in time to save them?
How many Arab children have died because the medicine they needed to survive was blockaded and unavailable?
How many Arab children have been blown to bits by Israeli weapons?
Gunned down by Israeli soldiers?
How many have had their homes torn down on top of them?
How many Arab children are in Israeli jails?
Neither Richard Witty nor Michael Weis has those numbers to hand I bet.
There's an easier answer than numbers, though.
Too many.
And another of the motivations for the Arab League, Richard, was to see the desert bloom. They (the Arabs) love looking at flowers.
Also, by my official tally, President Bush, "the decider", mentioned terrorism today about 96 times, and he did so because he's just that deeply concerned about protecting Americans and other human beings.
Richard's probably right about Ahmadinejad as well. His real motivation for wanting to exterminate the Jewish people and re-orient the entire Middle East in one fell swoop is probably something as simple as his early artistic failures and conspicuous lack of "height".
My name is P.A.Z., and I'm a Zioholic.
Well, you have been drinking.
Your parodies would be more interesting if they referred in any way to comments that I've actually made, or attitudes that you are CLEAR I hold.
You are one of those fools that wish only "pure" dissent, rather than work respectfully together on efforts that can actually change things.
I was young and immature once too.
So, what do you guys think the consequences of a plebiscite among the current residents of the sea to the river would be?
Yes, well I believe the Iranian president has well considered the matter, and, properly, desires a plebiscite AFTER the right of return has been implemented.
What kind of multiculturalism are we talking about?
I'm sure M Weis is all for a multi-cultural America and all it entails(forced bussing of white kids to the ghetto, homosexual marriage, open borders and illegal immigration, no Nativity scenes on public land, etc) yet he is not so multi-cultural for a shitty little country thousands of miles away.
What's good for the goose …
'I was young and immature once too'
You're only young once Richard, but you can be immature forever.
Commenters here often refer to the anti zionists who are commenting. But it is the racist commenters who repel the average Joe. . . . . And the collapse of the Neocon empire we are witnessing makes the rightwingers seem out of touch completely.
@patrick
We are talking about the Middle East, not North America.
And just wondering, have you ever even been to this "shitty little country"? Hard to describe something you've never seen.
I'm talking about making wise choices. I wonder if Israel's neighbors even know what multiculturalism is. They need to accept the fact that the dhimmis are going to rule themselves now.
Weis: Israel's multiculturalism is thanks mainly from its direct offshoots from a European heritage, hence your rather audacious claims of Israel's superiority as against the rest of the Arab culture, whom Israel wants rid of in its own state when it threatens the Zionist foundation that was so helpful to creating the state in the first place. What is even more offensive is the fact that the Palestinians are part of the Israeli state and have been at odds with it for quite some time now. You should know of its effects on Palestinian life; you cannot erect a state on Palestine without them having some sort of understanding as to why they came. Plenty of Palestinians are accommodating of Jewish stigmas and fears, as well as there are many Israelis who do the same for the Palestinian culture.
Possibly the "wise choice" could be that an Israel multiculturalism could be sympathetic to a Palestinian narrative too; one that does not study it for the purpose to negate it or demonise it but to embrace it as an important step for reconciliation. Perhaps if there was more recognition of a Palestinian story there may be more compassion from the Israelis for such a compromise (and the same for the Palestinians).
Lastly, the Arabs of Palestine were perhaps the most progressive out of the Arab nation. It sends its children abroad to study, they deal with plenty of internationals and even Israelis. This does not indicate a willingness for hermetically sealing the area for an isolated homogenous way of life.
I would have to assume that you have traveled to these Muslim nations in order to make your assessment of their ideology.
Joshua wrote: "Possibly the 'wise choice' could be that an Israel multiculturalism could be sympathetic to a Palestinian narrative too; one that does not study it for the purpose to negate it or demonize it but to embrace it as an important step for reconciliation. Perhaps if there was more recognition of a Palestinian story there may be more compassion from the Israelis for such a compromise (and the same for the Palestinians)."
So true, Joshua, so true. I am reminded of what the late Edward Said had to say:
"So far as the United States seems to be concerned, it is only a slight overstatement to say that Moslems and Arabs are essentially seen as either oil suppliers or potential terrorists. Very little of the detail, the human density, the passion of Arab-Moslem life has entered the awareness of even those people whose profession itis to report the Arab world. What we have instead is a series of crude, essentialized caricatures of the Islamic world presented in such a way as to make that world vulnerable to military aggression." -Edward Said, "Islam Through Western Eyes," The Nation, April 26, 1980
"Joshua wrote: "Possibly the 'wise choice' could be that an Israel multiculturalism could be sympathetic to a Palestinian narrative too; one that does not study it for the purpose to negate it or demonize it but to embrace it as an important step for reconciliation. Perhaps if there was more recognition of a Palestinian story there may be more compassion from the Israelis for such a compromise (and the same for the Palestinians).""
Very true.
Its why when Phil presented a summary of the Nakba Day presentations at Columbia, I suggested that instead of hateful polemic, pro-Palestinians organized information (only) presentations, and willingly take them round to Jewish communities.
Educate, rather than not. Educate, rather than browbeat.
Obfuscate, rather than clarify. Obfuscate, rather than relinquish anything.
What is there to relinquish?
The "right" to call names, to insult? The "right" to undertake regime change (in the name of opposing the thesis of regime change)?
What is there to relinquish?
I dunno, Judea and Samaria?
But even on that account, you produce nothing but prevarication, apologism, and the pointless pseudo-philosophical exercises that are your trademark here, Richard.
Hello Richard,
I was stricken by the forcefulness of your comments.
Could you confirm that you are acting out yourself on your own advice how to improve Israel's regime through the communication?
Do you personally take Nakba narrative to the Jewish community at your neighbourhood, and when you do, how do they react? What is your personal experience of educating?