Stuff piles up at Christmas and my wife and I only get to it later. She was having a bath this morning and asked me if I was as shocked as she was the other night when an older relative of hers mentioned something about a great aunt of hers, to me, over dinner: "Did you know that Aunt X thought it was a great idea that Hitler wanted to shoot the Jews?" Well no I didn't.
Usually when confronted with crude antisemitism, I adopt a line I heard from a sophisticated Manhattan architect years ago, when we were walking thru the 26th Street flea market in New York and saw some Nazi memorabilia for sale. "How charming," he said. That's what I learned to say, How charming. But this comment went way beyond that, and I just shrugged and said I hadn't heard it, and the party was quiet for a moment. I think everyone was a little shocked, embarrassed.
My wife and I took it apart a little this morning. She said that antisemitism of that intensity was probably common in small towns in Pennsylvania in that age. The great aunt surely felt the same way about blacks. She was not a sophisticated person. Though she was a beauty. Thanks to the beauty, she married well, and left a big house with a lot of great old junk in it. My wife's sister visited the old house not long ago and brought back two chairs she knew my wife would like. So I'm the beneficiary. I pointed that out to my wife, too. Well we got those chairs, and that great old gilt-framed photograph, out of it.
Then I said with typical optimism, The world moves on. Attitudes change slow, then they change fast. My wife's great aunt is the reason blacks and Jews made such a public identification 50 years ago: it was politically/culturally effective. Obama's in the White House and I'm at Christmas dinner.
Phil ("nose still up gentile anus") wrote:
"The world moves on. Attitudes change slow, then they change fast. My wife's great aunt is the reason blacks and Jews made such a public identification 50 years ago: it was politically/culturally effective. Obama's in the White House and I'm at Christmas dinner."
Yeah, and most of Europe's Jews were killed, and Muslims would (with your help Phil) like to kill the rest.
Nice work.
Now eat some more figgy pudding, you worthless fat fuck.
That's untrue; see this and perhaps your heart will be touched and your mind changed:
http://mwcnews.net/content/view/27496/26/
"Hunger Across Gaza As Bread Runs Out"
'Amongst the crowd a woman's voice arose above all people in the row. She started to scream and appealed for God requesting a salvation and easing for life conditions. I came closer to the woman, then introduced myself and then started to ask her some questions. The woman, Om Ali Shoman,45, with a pale bleak face draws the suffering of entire populations.
She said, "This is our destiny. It's a conspiracy machinated against us. What's the fault of my children at home to stay with no bread. Did they fire rockets? Did they kill Israelis? Are they holding guns?"'
steve R sounds worse than Phil's Great Aunt. At least she was an unsophisticated old lady and not an educated Jewish intellectual.
"3 Palestinians held for raping UN worker 25-Dec-08 05:10 pm
Three Palestinian teens were under arrest Thursday for allegedly raping and robbing a 60-year old UNIFIL worker in her east Jerusalem home, police said.
The three suspects, including two minors, were arrested after the woman, who is from a Scandinavian country, filed a complaint with police, Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said.
A fourth suspect remains at large."
Please join me in urging Eva Smagacz to replace this woman who will no longer be able to do her important work in Palestine!
The world moves on; attitudes change–here you go steve R, this video clip should make you feel better:
http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=6595
Happy Holiday!
"Attitudes change slow"
Organized Jewry's attitudes change slower than most. I wonder what role organized Jewish Bolshevik mass murder played in the aunt’s attitudes about Jewry. I wonder what role organized Jewish Zionist ethnic cleansing in Israel plays in Arab and Islamic attitudes towards Jewry. A few thousand Jews are starting to come clean on Jewish Zionist atrocities, but only a handful have acknowledged Jewish Bolshevik atrocities, which were of an immensely larger scale. Until organized Jewry does so, and is forced to make penance (as has Germany), it will continue to exploit the Holocaust and “crude antisemitism” both internally and externally to justify everything it does.
Left-wing Jews seem to believe that making penance for Zionism will suffice for Jews and the world to move along to the brave new multi-cultural socialist future — managed mostly by white left-liberals and Jews. That’s not how it works, as Jews should know better than anyone. I wonder how much these lawyerly, cherry-picked prostrations performed by left-liberal diaspora Jewry over right-wing Zionism are political theatre with a Jewish Bolshevik/Leninist-Stalinist renaissance in mind. For that matter, I wonder how many left-liberal gentile critics of Zionism have the same idea in mind. Inside every left-liberal ideologue is a little Lenin authoritarian screaming to get out, just like ethnic fundamentalists (some of them Jewish) have a wailing Hitler inside. One is no better than the other.
steve R sounds like an idiot.
"Muslims would like to kill the rest." ??
25% of the world is Muslim. One quarter of the universal population. Show me one place on the planet where the edict is to kill all the Jews. One place. With proof.
And dont cite Israel where this goes on:
link to flickr.com
/>
You're unintentionally hilarious, Ed.
Are you trying to alienate yourself from the entire world?
"…the world to move along to the brave new multi-cultural socialist future — managed mostly by white left-liberals and Jew."
No – just towards a more fair and sustainable future – not one where we rely on capitalist elites to make decisions based on the status quo which continues to be a world where a small minority own the entire plant and the poor and disenfranchised continue to grow.
So what's your solution, Ed?
from pal think tank – a picture
The picture MRW pointed to at Flickr
try again MRW's
Steve R is an idiot.
All Muslims want to kill Jews? Really?
And what's the point in posting that article? In 2 seconds anyone could find the same shit with an Israeli Jew doing a similar act or worse PLUS they'd get off easy.
Just recently a settler shot a Palestinian and paralyzed him from the waist down. The settler got 16 months. Happens all the time.
Israel still kills 10 times the number of Palestinian children. 5 times the civilians in general. Blah blah blah.
The facts aren't in your favor, douchebag.
…
"So what's your solution, Ed?"
Something different than the same old, binary socialist-left, socialist-right "solutions" trotted out time and again by the usual suspects and their sheeple useful idiots. War is the health of the State, and vice-versa. Israel would never have been in a position to make so much trouble but for Big Government America pandering to every sob story to come along, no matter how undeserving. Yet Israel is merely a metaphor for every parasitic mooch to come down the pike, from greedy Corporatists and banksters to greedy welfare fraudsters. Our main problem is that socialists and politicians who want to play god and control and pander to them all and everyone else are a dime a dozen in the post-Christian West.
Credit for last picture: link to rockthetruth.blogspot.com
Ed I fear the worst … sheeple and two parties …
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.volunteer26dec26,0,6284953.story
Michael W.
That's certainly a beautiful story of giving. Thanks for posting it. It points, however, directly to your misunderstanding of this blog. You seem to conflate Phil Weiss and his criticism of Israeli policy, supported and sometimes directed by organized American Jewry, with a blanket criticism of Jews. That is just not the case, and I'm wondering if your endeavor to erase the lines between 1) justified criticism of Israel's ethnic cleansing and apartheid, as well as the dual loyalty (or primary loyalty to a foreign country) of SOME American Jews, and 2) blatant anti-semitism (or self-hating) is deliberate. It seems to me that it is. What say you? I would go so far as to say that ALL of the posters on this blog would recognize your Baltimore Sun story of heartfelt giving as one of beauty and the desire to "Do unto others…". These volunteers should be and are admired. God bless them.
PM
Well THAT is shocking. Wonder if she also approved of lynching blacks.
I can understand a Palestine who has lost everything to Israel thinking that way,it's natural…but why would a non involved in anything woman in Pa. think that way?
I always will believe that racist are 'made',not born…she must have been raised in an enviroment that produced that attitude.
Yes, Michael W, give some money for them to eat:
"The synagogue also raised $3,300 for Our Daily Bread, some used for the Christmas dinner and the rest for the program's operating expenses, Palmbaum said."
And just a little bit more to control their minds:
"Mrs. LeFrak, of New York City, has donated $750,000 to Seton Hill's National Catholic Center for Holocaust Education."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08339/932513-56.stm
$750,000 to teach guilty to americans from a single jew. That's my kind of philantropist.
@ Paul M. Part I
I didn't post that link because of "blanket criticism of Jews" by Phil. I criticize Israel too. It's just that as someone in the Israeli-American community (born in Israel) and as a liberal Jewish American, I think I know what specifically needs to be criticized in Israel. Most of the commenter on this blog who watch Israel from the outside fail to understand the complexities in Israeli society and the players involved in this conflict. As a liberal Jewish American, I have observed non-Jewish and Jewish Americans of the Left criticize Israel and just see them fail to gain any support because they keep falling to that failure which is characteristic of the hard Left of just supporting the weak. They failure of the pro-Palestinian movement is that it hasn't criticized any players in its movement. It has to do so to present the general populace with a cause to which they can tolerate looking at. Till someone of the pro-Palestinian movement criticizes the likes of Hamas (which just killed two Palestinian girls today, but who cares?), you won't have a spokesperson or representatives which the media/Americans will accept or tolerate.
@Paul M. Part II
I hate the settlers just as much as the next liberal American or liberal Israeli. The fight between the settlers and the rest of Israel is always debated in the Israeli press, even between opposing right wingers. But the Palestinians don't have a well developed political system which provides the Palestinians with only two choices, Hamas and Fatah, which both are corrupt. I have hope with Fatah just because they are easier to deal with but Hamas just isn't tolerated by Israeli society.
Thomas Friedman has criticized Israel numerous times. He's a liberal Jewish American but because he criticizes the Palestinians as well, he won't be accepted by the rest of the pro-Palestinian hard left movement. Alan Dershowitz also criticizes Israel but he will never be accepted in the pro-Palestinian movement because it is highjacked by extremists who are probably right wing by the nature of a radical Islamic movement such as Hamas. The pro-Palestinian movement sometimes put Jewish spokespersons such as Norman Finkelstein or Richard Falk in front of viewers but they are never seen as leaders of the movement in America. They might provide the movement the appearance of intellectualism but these people are hardly respected in their own communities. They have no base from which to draw support from. Many people of the Israeli Left have distanced themselves from Avraham Burg because he himself has distanced himself from his own community. Frankly, I think he tried to do too much at one time with his book release in Israel. My Dad actually knows Burg back in the day when served in the same company. Burg was the commanding officer in another platoon but they had regular contact with each other. There are some things that Burg said which can be accepted by mainstream liberal Israelis.
On the issue of double-loyalty, I think it's laughable. If you want me to explain further, just ask again. I won't bother to address it here.
The likes of Ed has criticized organized Jewry. He called it "selfish" and "not concerned with all of humanity." He still hasn't responded to any of my questions to him such as after I provided evidence such as from the link I provided (I actually took part in this and it wasn't the first time), how can he call organized Jewry what he calls it. I also asked him how a "Christian America" will differ from the society which we have today.
Like I said before, I volunteered in something connected to that which is talked about the article I posted. But certain commentators talk of this movement of evil intentions, a corrupting nature which has plagued many Jews and politicians. That movement to which they refer to is Zionism. The complexities of the issue will always fly around them and they'll never be accepted in public discourse and the Left always pretend that they don't exist. Actually, some of these people which I referred to which are part of the far Right but they come full circle with the far Left which is disturbing and it should be for anyone who lends support to any cause of the far Left. This lack of self criticism (which is one of the more appealing Jewish characteristics, Ex: Look at our Bible) remains and is very evident to most Americans.
Excellent posts, Michael W!
You make me realize we, who take Israel/Palestine seriously, are not just screaming into the wind. There are people out there worth talking to. You have raised the level of discourse here enormously, please continue.
@Jim Haygood,
I'm assuming you are in the pro-Palestinian movement. Until you criticize the likes of Ed, rebut him in these comment threads, your movement won't go anywhere. It is very hard for those in the Israeli left to find genuine support from abroad till those pro-Palestinians abroad criticize the Palestinians as well, and there is much to be criticized. Frankly, I think you really do need a Jew to lead your movement not because Israel is the Jewish state, but according to certain individual commenters on this blog, Jews are very good at organizing. Those that are serious about the Israeli Palestinian issue, have to rebut the likes of "Anonymous" who commented in this thread. He leaves a very distasteful statement not worthy of debate on the issue. I can't blame it on him because Phil tolerates a very low civil discourse on this comment thread. Richard Silverstein who also blogs on the issue is better at this because the level of discourse is much higher on his blog but he still fails at self criticism.
In November, when I was waiting in line to vote, I talked with this elderly woman behind me in line. I told them I was born in Israel and we continued our discussion on the topic of Israel. I said something that baffled her on Israel because it was somewhat pro-Palestinian. "Are you Jewish?", she asked. I said I was Israeli and something that even centrist Israelis say that the peace talks are of out most importance. And then she rebutted me with talks about prophecies in Ezekiel and how the Russians and Arabs are going to attack from the north. I just didn't know how to respond to her. I didn't want to get in a heated debate minutes before I voted for the first time.
People like the old woman I just talked about are obviously not going to listen to the likes of Norman Finkelstein, and even not Alan Dershowitz because he's very liberal in the American political sphere. Dershowitz is utterly brilliant and could defend the creation of a Palestinian state any day if it wasn't associated with Hamas and not led by those that think delegitimizing the state of Israel is the right way to give the Palestinians what they want – which is hopefully a place where they can live freely and chose a destiny which doesn't threaten Israel. Dershowitz can easily speak in the media and present a position/course to the American people to which they can lend support which favors a Palestinian state.
If Norman Finkelstein was a realist, which I think he will eventually become (watch – link to blip.tv
he could lead this movement but he has been so academically ridiculed that hardly anyone in the American media would want to speak with him. He has many strengths when debating the issue but I don't think he knows what the right wingers think is important hence can't confront them properly. He keeps talking about "International Law". Does he really think that International Law means anything? It's like the King of England legislating laws on the American colonies. It's like a bunch of communists and dictators telling the west how it should behave. Even the European countries aren't trusted by Israel in the sphere of UN politics because of rising identification of Muslim Europeans with Islamic causes such as that presented by Hamas and Iran.
There is this struggle/debate in Israel between the liberal/centrist secular and the religious right. Finkelstein is aware of this and has used this many times. But when Al Jazeera English puts on 2 Arabs and an Israeli to debate on TV about something specific on the issue, even non-Hamas Palestinians/Arabs can't come to even criticize Hamas even one bit (watch the 2 parts, here is the first- link to youtube.com
Israel has no idea how to deal with Hamas. The Arabs/UN say you can't fire into Gaza even though Hamas terrorists are hiding in there. You can't stop providing them resources. You are still occupying Gaza even though there are no Israelis there. They keep comparing Israel to Hitler but the comparison doesn't even measure. It is insulting to all Israelis, even to those in the Left. Those in the movement just don't know how to speak to even liberal Israelis even though they have the same goals.
To those in the generation of Alan Dershowitz, the memory of the Holocaust and the creation of Israel are very important to their worldview. The must defend the memory of the Holocaust and Israel. My generation(young Israelis), which Dershowitz listen to because he's a professor, the memory of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is important to our world view and the solution is our goal.
"Tikkun Olam", the Jewish/Hebrew expression of fixing the world is important to all Jews which care about Jewish issues, one of which is Israel. Holocaust was the problem, Israel was the solution. The emerging Jewish issue is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There is a problem, and now we must find the solution which hopefully is the two state solution. We still care about the goals of our parents such as the security of Israel, but there is a new problem and we must come with another solution while still respecting Israel. Finkelstein said himself that he hasn't been involved in the issue since the early 80's. His parents survived the Holocaust, he didn't know anything about Zionism, he thinks that the problem was solved, his parents survived and he came into being. He doesn't feel obliged to respect the solution of his parents generation because he hasn't wasn't exposed to it, he wasn't aware of it.
RE: Holocaust was the problem, Israel was the solution. The emerging Jewish issue is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There is a problem, and now we must find the solution which hopefully is the two state solution."
The deeper problem is a solution that does not ignore the connective tissue between the "old problem/issue" and the "new problem/issue."
Direct cause, independent intervening cause, proximate cause–these are analytical principles of American tort law, of negligence, in civil liability (cf criminal Nuremberg liability)
in whether or not to recognize liability in damages. Using them as
a model, is the best solution to the harm addressed the two state or single state solution? In either case it seems a UN force would
have to enforce the verdict.
Hello Steve R,
Is this a lesson in democracy that you share with us on this blog?
An elderly woman has been raped by some randy goats of the men, and you think that I deserve to be raped as well?
You think women should look pretty, breed well and stick to the kitchen and not discuss politics?
And if she dares to speak out AND to speak in a way that displeases you a gang rape is just a thing she deserves?
You are a really nice person…. Many more of those like you where you came from?
Ignore Steve R, Eva– he must be Bill Pearlman's tight nephew; many of us posters here think you are wonderful! You have earned our respect and caring.
Michael W,
Can you explain why you're voting here if you're an Israeli? I know there are legal bases for such dual roles, but can you be specific about your own progress, why you're here and not there?
I take your point about criticizing Palestinians. But my main thrust is to address Americans. And it is confusing when someone who self-describes as an "Israeli" is voting in my presidential election, and lecturing me about how to address Americans. Phil
Interesting post, Micheal W. And although I disagree on some points, you come across as fairly reasonable and descent – unlike SteveR.
But I have to tell you – don't put your eggs in Dershowitz's basket. That man in seriously deranged – and has a problem with telling the truth.
You seem you are serious about peace – stay away from Dershowitz if you are.
Just my two cents, for what it's worth..
@Phil part I,
I moved to the US when I was ten years old. Now that I am of voting age, I can vote like any American adult. I was born with American citizenship because of my dad. I never plan to vote in Israeli elections (nor French elections, I actually got a letter from the French Army, LOL) even though I probably can. I am a member of the Israeli-American community, Americans with an Israeli background.
I described myself as an Israeli because A)I'm an Israeli national, B)I know better than you Phil the opinions of Israeli-Americans, and C)I know the complexities of Israeli politics and how liberal Americans should engage liberal Israelis. Secular (and Orthodox) Israelis can't understand very well Jewish Americans so it's safe to say that liberal Americans don't know how to engage liberal Israelis. I've been in both communities – liberal secular Israeli and liberal Jewish American.
@Phil part II,
You, Phil, as SOG frequently states, hardly belong in the Jewish American community. You said your "main thrust is to address Americans". But all you talk about is American's relationship with Israel. You don't know the national conscience of Israel and your perception of why Americans support Israel is messed up. You can start by going on your own journey to discover on what it means to be a good Jew. I'm not talking about following halacha. Being a good Jew can be interpreted many ways and you need discover how young Jewish Americans and Israelis will understand what it means to be a good whatever. You frequently talk about the Jewish American community and its relationship with Israel. You got to stop looking at them (Israel and the US) as nation states. You have to look at them as people with different opinions trying to figure out what it means to be a good self and what is good for the community.
I think most of what you say about the neocons is utter bullshit. I have one neocon friend and he would be considered a lefty in Israeli politics. Once an agreement is signed, he would let any remaining settlers that oppose to just be killed by revenge thirsty Palestinians. And he's a Bush supporting neocon! I suggest you read Michael Oren's (Yes, that Michael Oren) book on America in the Middle East.
The photo, Kill All Arabs, taken in Hebron of the hate graffiti by the JDL (Jewish Defense League) on a Palestinian's door, was taken and posted on Flickr by a Jew, who thinks Zionism is a cute word for racism.
I also think Zionists are giving the world a concrete reason to hate Jews. Before, they hated us because of myths like we had horns or drank the blood of babies. Now with the internet, the world gets instant images and news of the Jewish state's military campaigns on Palestinians that spills the blood of babies.