Check out this video of the Laura Flanders show last night (and skip to 7:00):
Ali Abunimah challenges Mark Green and Katrina vanden Heuvel, saying that progressives haven't spoken out on Gaza. They respond by not speaking out on Gaza.
Mark Green defends the Israeli action and repeats some of Israeli propaganda's greatest hits, including holding up Ariel Sharon (!) of all people as having made sacrifices for peace. To her relative credit, vanden Heuvel just looks uncomfortable and ashamed and tries to change the subject as quickly as possible.
Both Green (Air America) and vanden Heuvel (The Nation) run flagship media outlets on the "left." That neither of them can, or are willing, to speak out against the carnage in Gaza says volumes. As Abunimah rightly points out, Bob Simon's outspokenness on 60 Minutes put both of them to shame. (Though in fairness, vanden Heuvel has run important Gaza pieces by Wallace Shawn, Richard Falk, and Laila Al-Arian).
Abunimah also rightly raises the question of how will progressives relate to the Obama administration: as principled advocates or a simple cheering section? Both Green and vanden Heuvel need to understand that on this issue, the ground is shifting beneath their feet. If they're not willing to speak out there are plenty of others who are. Abunimah is the future, will Air America and The Nation care to join him? (Adam Horowitz)
the non chalance with which green considers the lives taken in the massacre in gaza is exemplary of a cowardly american press.
the american press is a cowardly bunch of stooges.
i dont blame the rappacious zionist any longer, its the spineless press who dress in american passports as citizens of a free nation and lie and remain silent in the face of crimes against humanity.
"That neither of them can, or are willing, to speak out against the carnage in Gaza says volumes."
Indeed. The volumes speak about the fact that Israel was justified, in the eyes of those who run flagship media outlets on the left.
That's right. You heard it here. Even die-hard critics of Israel admit that Israel was justified in its actions.
You want 'ignoring palestine?' Well look no further than your media, when it triumphs that this is the first breach of the 'unilateral ceasefire.'
Israel breaks unilateral ceasefire- Western media silence. Israeli dies – Western media frenzy (citations inside)
There is no real ceasefire as there is no agreement. If things worked this way, Hamas would have had one in December.
Unfortunately, the Western Media has wholly forgotten the Palestinians it killed in Gaza after it declared its 'unilateral ceasefire.' It isn't until an Israeli gets killed (by a bomb that is not claimed or may or may not have been placed before or after Jan 18) that the Media starts talking about ceasefire violations.
Amazing.
This was the first breach of the unilateral ceasefire on Jan 22 and it was when Israel shelled Gaza's beaches unprovoked injuring several Palestinians. It wasn't even reported in any western media, except the Jerusalem Post.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-01/22/content_10702569.htm
And also the UN reported that two kids were killed by unexploded ordnance.
chris berel and thom = mark regev, ie. mouthpiece of the Isaeli govt = ignore
Thanks George.
Thats an additional source over the two i have on KOS.
Could you link the UN report?
It can be startling when people you would think of as being "on your team" are so off base on one of the major justice issues of our time. I too hope progressives do not just turn out to be cheerleaders for their side and work to actually shape the new agenda.
I love the imagery of "the ground [..]shifting beneath their feet" because that is exactly what is happening.
"Lead, follow, or get out of ther way." ~ LT
From Twitter
Confessions of an Israeli soldier: We treat Palestinians like animals
From Twitter
Israel broke the latest truce; "MIDEAST: Ceasefire Broken From Day One" link to tr.im
/>
So far, no proof has been issued regarding any violations of the truce.
Try something other than obvious propaganda pieces
Perhaps you can post something other than propagandistic pieces to show a breach. So far, I've seen nothing worth reviewing.
Political economic designations have little meaning when discussing geopolitical issues like Israel's occupation of Palestine. Israeli aggression supporters might support a policy to create the very best finance regulatory system, but they would still be supporting the mass murder of Palestinians with US made weapons. This Green person should have a Zionist prefix added to his designation of leftist, while vanden Heuvel's would be milquetoast.
Ali Abunimah got it exactly right! Now I understand why Air America "personalities" consistently parrot Israeli talking points. Green sounds like a Fox News commentator. Progressive? What colossal load of b.s. It's about time "progressives" in America started talking about the truth when it comes to Israel.
But they are talking about the truth. That should make you wonder who and what you are parroting.
PRAVDA = TRUTH = FOX
It's so simple! Why didn't I see it before?
/snark off
BTW, is talking about the truth the same as telling it?
~
yes. this is exactly the reason that the lefties hate ron paul and pat buchanan: too critical of their beloved israel. it sdoens't matter which party you vote for folks, you get the same policies more or less
Mark Green and Katrina vanden Heuvel are both left-liberal Judeophiles/Jewish supremacists, not unlike a certain Soviet and Western Communist faction of yore. Of course they don't speak out against Zionism. They will NEVER seriously speak out against Zionism.
Their type of left-wing intelligentsia, from Arianna Huffington straight through to Christopher Hitchens, should never be trusted by the earnest, well-intentioned Left. In fact, the question should be asked if they're not actually working on behalf of Big Brother fascism as a kind of pseudo-opposition, just like Orwell's Emanuel Goldstein (and Emanuel, Rahm for that matter).
Orwell had their type pegged decades ago.
tsk tsk tsk….
Posted on Jan 27, 2009
Since all three options are off the table, the 2 state solution is all that is left.
chris berel's not qualified to speak here. His IDF service doesn't count. Rodent-looking punks are not accepted.
Forget Jews and Palestinians. Ali nailed their asses on basic domestic policy. Conservative wins are only possible when the soft liberals march behind them in lockstep
I just got an email from The Nation asking me to subscribe. I think I'll hit the paypal button at Mondoweiss instead.
A. Horowitz: "Both Green and vanden Heuvel need to understand that on this issue, the ground is shifting beneath their feet. If they're not willing to speak out there are plenty of others who are. Abunimah is the future, will Air America and The Nation care to join him?"
Horowitz, don't bother trying to bring the Corrupt Ones along with the Cause. They simply can't be trusted — now or ever. Bringing them into the fold is only asking for trouble down the line. They know what the are; they like what they are; and they are what they are. They can't be "reasoned" out of their nature.
I subscribe to the three I's on the Zionist problem, whether they're on the Left or the Right: Identify, Immobilize, Isolate.
Try something other than obvious propaganda pieces
Well, Israel is itself a propaganda piece, but here's some cold hard facts, straight from the mouth of the Israeli government and military, via the Israeli press. I posted this a couple days ago.
Israeli Sources: Shock & Awe Planned For 6 Months>
Israel's ongoing onslaught on the sealed off Gaza Strip, marketed to the world as a response to Palestinian rocket-firing, has been planned six months ago and is Israel's version of America's "shock and awe" campaign against Iraq, Haaretz reported on Sunday, December 28.
"Long-term preparation, careful gathering of information, secret discussions, operational deception and the misleading of the public – all these stood behind the Israel Defense Forces "Cast Lead" operation against Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip," the Israeli daily wrote.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak ordered the army to plan for the offensive more than six months ago, even as Israel was negotiating an Egyptian-brokered truce deal with Hamas and other factions.
Shock & Awe
Major General Yoav Galant, the commander of the Israeli Southern Command, said the aim of the Operation Cast Lead is to "send Gaza decades into the past" and inflict "the maximum number of enemy casualties."
"This was a massive attack much along the lines of what the Americans termed 'shock and awe' during their invasion of Iraq in March 2003." [Obviously not something that was merely a "response" to Hamas behavior]
"Like the US assault on Iraq and the Israeli response to the abduction of IDF reservists Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser at the outset of the Second Lebanon War, little to no weight was apparently devoted to the question of harming innocent civilians," said Haaretz.
Israel's Shock & Awe Planned 6 Months
Justine, I agree about Air America.
Adam's right:
Mark Green betrayed every possible liberal principle in reciting reactionary Likud-Kidima propoganda. Then Green tried to downplay Ali Abunimah's discussion of Israel's slaughter of Palestinians, by casually remarking in an oh-so-distancing way, [approx] "we could have an interesting debate" about the easily disproved facts he alleged. Then Green had the nerve glibly to accuse Abunimah of making a "glib analogy to Nazi concentration camps on sovereign soil."
Vanden Heuvel did look ashamed, and she should.
Whatever happened to her participation in
"Jewish Soul-Searching Scheduled, Hallelujah"?
The neocon ascension is causing soul-searching at last within the Jewish community. A year after Yivo had an event to kill the messenger (a critical response to Walt and Mearsheimer), progressive Jews are doing what we must do and having an event at Central Synagogue in New York on November 23 to heal America and the Jewish community in the wake of Iraq–"a daylong call to conscience." Rabbi Ellen Lippmann, M.J. Rosenberg, Katrina vanden Heuvel, Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Amy Goodman. Great. I recommend the following text for daylong commentary: Six years ago a close relative of mine said, "Philip, what do you think of this war? I demonstrated against the Vietnam War, but my Jewish newspaper says this could be good for Israel."
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2008/09/jewish-soul-searching-scheduled-hallelujah.html
And then there's this Guardian piece from 11/05/2008, immediately after Israel broke the ceasefire, with an Israeli military statement, which attempts to deny that it was a breach of the ceasefire while simultaneously admitting they fired first. Ah, the Israelis and the art of doublespeak:
"This was a pinpoint operation intended to prevent an immediate threat," the Israeli military said in a statement. "There is no intention to disrupt the ceasefire, rather the purpose of the operation was to remove an immediate and dangerous threat posted by the Hamas terror organisation."
And then there's this reasoning by Ehud Barak and the IOF:
Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, had personally approved the Gaza raid, the Associated Press said. The Israeli military concluded that Hamas was likely to want to continue the ceasefire despite the raid, it said. The ceasefire was due to run for six months and it is still unclear whether it will stretch beyond that limit.
If they honestly believed that, then they're morons. Obviously, they knew Hamas would respond, so that then they could put "Operation Cast Lead", WHICH HAD BEEN PLANNED FOR SIX MONTHS, into full effect.
Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
Philip, what do you think of this war? I demonstrated against the Vietnam War, but my Jewish newspaper says this could be good for Israel.
I absolutely love that quote by Phil. I have posted it far and wide. It's so simple, yet gets right to the heart of the matter. Beautiful.
Boy this Laura Flanders sure is attractive. What channel is she on?
Here's Phil's full statement, which is a great way, I've found, to introduce people (who otherwise don't know what the hell I'm talking about – and might be tempted to smear me as an "anti-semite") to this all-important issue:
The reason this blog exists (I often say) is because of something one of my siblings said to me in 2003: "I demonstrated against the Vietnam war, but my Jewish newspaper says this war could be good for Israel.
My sibling's comment suggested that there was a Jewish interest that overrode even the antiwar spirit in my family culture, and it led me to look into my religious background and the role of Zionism in American Jewish life. I'd avoided looking at Israel/Palestine till then. Now I had to study the way that neoconservatism and its Zionist underpinnings had affected the Jewish liberal presence in American life.
The heart of this blog is the belief that the Iraq war was a disastrous turn for my country in the world, in which it imitated Israel's policy toward the Arab world, of militancy, occupation, arrogance. And from that comes my challenge to American Jewish identity: to come to terms with the Zionist push for this war, and the inherent dual loyalty issue in the Diaspora role in Jewish nationalism, and understand how it has corrupted Jewish tradition, let alone American policymaking.
"chris berel's not qualified to speak here. His IDF service doesn't count. Rodent-looking punks are not accepted."
Posted by: Carol White | January 27, 2009 at 05:40 PM
Wonderful comment. Reflects the reason why Israel refuses to back down from defending its citizens. Great to see that the critics of self-defense are so articulate.
Don't complain about chris berel posting here. We should encourage Israelis to engage. It would be better if he could get beyond Israeli government talking points but it is possible he lacks the intellectual tools to craft his own thoughts.
'Don't complain about chris berel posting here. We should encourage Israelis to engage.'
A thousand times, yes. Some feel Phil should 'police' these boards but 'it's better out than in', 'sunshine is the best disinfectant' etc. The only caveat is that every effort should be made to ensure people aren't pretending to be several other people in addition to themselves (a la SOG, who must be on hols or something).
An antiseptic comments section would quickly become just another bien-pensant circle-jerk.
I don't like what they say, but will defend to the very edge of my keyboard their right to say it.
Lovely, Glenn.
I agree. Well said, Glenn.
"Ali Abunimah challenges Mark Green and Katrina vanden Heuvel, saying that progressives haven't spoken out on Gaza. They respond by not speaking out on Gaza."
Well, this is a classic quote of the American "left wing" activists.
They were being polite. No sense telling a guest that he is on the wrong side of morality in this particular case.
Agree with Glenn about allowing multiple voices for a vital discussion, but chris berel is a tiresome attention hog and – even worse – utterly boring and predictable.
it is possible he lacks the intellectual tools to craft his own thoughts
jeez… ya think?
No he doesn't, and neither do you. But keep on trying, eventually you'll post something worth reading.
Do you think Richard Witty and Chris Berel swapped shifts?
I think Richard is probably sitting back and smiling, yes.
The Nation does not exist as a tool of
universal justice. It only exists to
hammer away at the white west.
There funds are probably in great doubt
right now after the maddoff scandal so they
will need to be careful.
In my previous comment…
there = "their"