Game-changer: NYT’s Roger Cohen visits Iran and views Israeli and US militarism from the other side

Roger Cohen does a great service in today's New York Times in a surprising article "What Iran’s Jews Say." Reporting from Esfahan, Cohen blows away the image of Iran that AIPAC and the Israel lobby have worked so hard to craft as a frothing anti-Semitic cauldron of hate. Cohen writes:

…I inquired how [Soleiman Sedighpoor, 61, a Jew] felt about the chants of “Death to Israel” — “Marg bar Esraeel” — that punctuate life in Iran.

“Let
them say ‘Death to Israel,’ ” he said. “I’ve been in this store 43
years and never had a problem. I’ve visited my relatives in Israel, but
when I see something like the attack on Gaza, I demonstrate, too, as an
Iranian.”

Just as importantly, Cohen goes on to call out the double standard by which Iran's nuclear program is watched under a microscope while Israel's is willfully ignored. Remember that Obama refused to "speculate" about whether Israel has nukes at his first press conference:

I asked Morris Motamed, once the Jewish member of the Majlis, if he
felt he was used, an Iranian quisling. “I don’t,” he replied. “In fact
I feel deep tolerance here toward Jews.” He said “Death to Israel”
chants bother him, but went on to criticize the “double standards” that
allow Israel, Pakistan and India to have a nuclear bomb, but not Iran.

Double
standards don’t work anymore; the Middle East has become too
sophisticated. One way to look at Iran’s scurrilous anti-Israel tirades
is as a provocation to focus people on Israel’s bomb, its 41-year
occupation of the West Bank, its Hamas denial, its repetitive use of
overwhelming force. Iranian language can be vile, but any Middle East
peace — and engagement with Tehran — will have to take account of these
points.

"Repetitive use of overwhelming force." Don't forget that Cohen was "shamed" by Gaza a few weeks back. He finishes with a final shot across the neocon bow–proclaiming "we won't be fooled again" into a war with Iran:

Green Zoneism — the basing of Middle Eastern policy on the construction of imaginary worlds — has led nowhere.

Of course, no good deed goes unpunished and the JTA wasted no time going after the article. Uriel Heilman takes an oddly Zionist tone even for the JTA in this post, "Naive on Iran": "Iran is a place where Jews are punished for expressing the fundamental Jewish value of yearning for Zion." Heilman thinks that Cohen was basically duped and doesn't understand "the possibility that Jews in Iran may be holding back when they talk to him for fear of the regime's long arm." He faults Cohen for not devoting more time to discussing Iran's nuclear program (in an article about Iranian Jews?), and ends by more or less putting Cohen in league with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ("Don't we have enough anti-Israel rhetoric coming out of Iran already?") as he echoes the lobby's litany of Iran talking points.

Contrast this with Rabbi Brant Rosen's take on the article. Now, one apparent difference between Rosen and Heilman is that Rosen has actually been to Iran (Heilman's bio mentions reporting from Israel, the United States, Europe, South
America, and Africa). Rabbi Rosen writes on his blog:

Cohen’s words are very much in line with my own experience. When I attended an interfaith delegation to Iran this past November, we spent considerable time with the Jewish community – and among the many surprising impressions we received was their obvious sense of comfort and safety living as Jews under an Islamic regime.

American Jews are invariably astounded when I tell them that I myself wore a kippah publicly throughout Iran without a moment’s nervousness. (Once we were approached and asked by an Iranian man if we were Jewish – he turned out to be a Jew himself and he promptly invited us to his shul for Shabbat). I’m not being facetious when I say that I actually felt safer as a Jew walking the streets Tehran than I often do in Israel: the only place in the world, frankly, where Jewish lives are under constant threat.

The lobby is only successful as long as journalists (and politicians) are willing to regurgitate its talking points and not actually go to Iran to see for themselves. The Green Zone was made possible through similar misinformation and ignorance. It's looking like they're going to have a tougher go this time around.

About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Beyondoweiss, Iran, Israel Lobby, US Policy in the Middle East

{ 46 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Lysander says:

    Thanx, Phil

    I have always said that change will come, not from public perception here in the U.S., but from a change in the regional balance of power; a balance less favorable to the U.S. and Israel.

    Iran is a prime example. The change you see is precisely because Iran stood firm for years in its nuclear program despite numerous veiled and open threats and despite sanctions and resolutions. They also outmaneuvered the U.S. in Iraq and are now looking like a much needed potential ally in Afghanistan.

    Now the U.S. has to take them into account. That is why you can see an article such as this from Roger Cohen. This is not to take anything from Cohen. He seems like a reasonable guy who knows the score. He also catches flak for bearing the bad news to the bomb Iran crowd.

    But If Iran had succumbed to U.S. demands back in 2003, it wouldn't matter what Cohen wrote.

  2. Citizen says:

    The USA has more important things to worry about than Iran, although better relations with Iran could only help us, especially considering that at Columbia University last Friday, legendary hedge fund manager George Soros shocked his audience, proclaiming …

    ”We witnessed the collapse of the financial system. It was placed on life support, and it's still on life support. There's no sign that we are anywhere near a bottom.“

    Soros went on to say that …

    The crisis is actually more severe than the Great Depression …

    It’s like watching the demise of the Soviet Union, and …

    There is no prospect of a recovery any time soon.
    Former Fed chief Paul Volcker — President Obama’s top economic advisor — laid his cards on the table as well — declaring that the U.S. economy may be deteriorating even faster and more broadly around the globe than it did during the Great Depression.

    They’re right. There can be no question that this crisis is growing more destructive almost by the day …

    Or that this great bear market will continue to rage for many months — probably many years — to come.

  3. Ed says:

    'Cohen goes on to call out the double standard by which Iran's nuclear program is watched under a microscope while Israel's is willfully ignored. Remember that Obama refused to "speculate" about whether Israel has nukes at his first press conference'

    There are so damn many double standards when it comes to the Zionists, I'm beginning to wonder of Americans aren't being conditioned to accept some kind of half-ass caste-system ala Hindu India, with Jewish Zionists as the Brahmin. There are definitely some very poisonous, primitive, "exotic" eastern ideas in combination with authoritarian secular enforcement that tear at the heart of the former values of Western civilization being cultivated in Zionist-occupied Washington. They are waging a war against the very foundations of traditional Western principles of right and wrong.

  4. Suzanne says:

    So, I guess the Iranian Jews who fled Iran, including the small community near me, are a bunch of dirty Zionist (aka Jewish) liars. Is that it?

    You know Adam and Phil…this has gone beyond Israel. It reallllllly has. It's way beyond Israel. guys.

    The subtext of everything you say is that Jews are deceitful, untruthful, and always have ulterior motives. And you are spoonfeeding it to a very hungry audience here.

    Mark my words, you will someday feel great sorrow for this. That is not a threat. This is not about Jewish vindication.

    It's just something I know is going to happen. You have lost all perspective –and someday, for whatever reason, you are going to wonder at which point your good intentions took a deeply tragic wrong turn.

  5. doug says:

    Imagine a "one state solution" with 200 nukes and a different finger on the trigger.

    I'd rather not. I like democracy but I'm not a Puritan about it.

  6. Seven says:

    "So, I guess the Iranian Jews who fled Iran, including the small community near me, are a bunch of dirty Zionist (aka Jewish) liars. Is that it?"

    People migrate all over the world for better opportunities all the time. No difference between the Iranian Jews that "fled" Iran and the Mexicans who "flee" Mexico because of poverty.

  7. Seven says:

    Complaint…

    I really hate typing in the captcha (whatever it's called) thing each time I post a comment here.

  8. Shield of Asherah says:

    I'd sooner trust a NYT journalist's report of what Jews in Iran told him there, not to mention Rabbi Rosen's experience, than an anonymous person on a blog (Suzanne) who has presumably never been to Iran making claims about what some emigrants might have told her.

    "Iran is a place where Jews are punished for expressing the fundamental Jewish value of yearning for Zion."

    Perhaps we should let Iranian Jews decide for themselves what are and are not their fundamental values.

  9. Suzanne says:

    Seven

    Let me ask again. Are you saying that the Iranian Jews who said they fled a hostile revolutionary Iran are liars? When they say they are concerned about relatives back in Iran, are they liars?

    Are the people who have said this to me in casual conversation liars?

    (PS… thousands of Muslim born Iranians fled as well and it wasn't economic)

    Your attempt to whitewash this is extremely offensive.

  10. syvanen says:

    There is a sizeable Iranian Jewish community living in LA. I met a few and was really interested in their personal stories. They had left in the first decade after the Shah's fall. They feared for their safety. But other than that there weren't any stories about arrests, executions of relatives or other overt atrocities that I was fully expecting. These were people from just two families so consider this just an anecdote. But it is interesting to see how these reports making Suzie near hysterical. As I said before, antisemitism is needed by some Jews to give their life meaning.

  11. David F. says:

    "Iran is a place where Jews are punished for expressing the fundamental Jewish value of yearning for Zion."

    Considering that "Zion" is a hostile foreign power, I don't see what is particularly objectionable about this.

    Is being disloyal to one's own country a "fundamental Jewish value?"

  12. *Breaking research finds US weapons in Gaza?

    *From: Amnesty International USA (alerts@takeaction.amnestyusa.org)

    “A new report released just hours ago reveals that U.S.-made white phosphorus artillery shells among other U.S. weapons were found throughout Gaza. When white phosphorus munitions are used in densely-populated civilian areas as Israel has, it violates international humanitarian law’s prohibition on indiscriminate attacks and amounts to a war crime.

    In light of this new finding, we are urging Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to immediately call for:
    - an investigation into Israel’s use of U.S. arms in Gaza
    - a suspension of U.S. military aid to Israel and
    - to urge the United Nations to impose an arms embargo on all parties in the conflict…..

    Urge Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to immediately call for an investigation into Israel's use of U.S. arms in Gaza and a suspension of military aid…."

    *TO SEND AN E-MAIL –
    link to takeaction.amnestyusa.org

  13. Shield of Asherah says:

    Suzanne, are you saying that Cohen and Rosen are liars? Are you saying that the Jewish Iranians they talked to are liars?

    Apparently it's not antisemitic to suggest that Jews are liars if they're insufficiently Zionist…

  14. chimpsky says:

    This is from Ari Ben-Menashe's " Profits of War":

    "Even within the Jewish community in Iran there were divisions.  The Iraqi Jews, who had a highly developed sense of Western and European culture and Jewish awareness, would not mix with the Iranian Jews, who regarded themselves as Iranians who happened to have another religion.

      "Those Iranian Jews who emigrated to Israel were generally financial refugees without emotional connections to their new home.  They certainly didn't leave Iran because of oppression.  There was little anti-Semitism in Iran, and still isn't, even under the new regime." " … most Iranians harbored none of the hatred of Jews that existed in Europe." (pp. 3-4)

  15. Seven says:

    Suzanne,

    What I am saying….

    I have a lot of Iranian friends who happen to be Jews and none of them fled Iran for the reasons you claim. I've also read so many op-ed pieces about Iranian Jews by the mainstream media in the last few years to know that they certainly don't feel as persecuted as Zionist hasbara agents make them out to be.

    As to whether your friends are liars or not… you seem totally out of your mind, so I could totally see how you might be friends with some liars.

  16. Dag Andersson says:

    @Suzanne

    So, I guess the Iranian Jews who fled Iran, including the small community near me, are a bunch of dirty Zionist (aka Jewish) liars. Is that it?

    .

    The Zionists claim that the yearning for Zion is inherent in every Jew.
    Still your claim is that they "fled" to Israel. Which is it ? And why did 4000 iranian Jews flee back to Iran ?
    Then you really shit in your pants, by asserting that Zionists are aka Jews. The majority of zionists are NOT Jews, and many Jews are NOT zionists.

  17. chris berel says:

    All Jews, who identify themselves as Jews, religiously, are zionists.

    It would be safe to assume there are about 70 milllion christian zionists in the US.

  18. Richard Witty says:

    The Iranian Jews do face persecution and selective application of law. Its just that their status in Iran is MUCH BETTER than the status of Jews in Arab countries.

    Persia has been uniquely accepting, inviting, to Jews.

    Iran is still adamently opposed to Zionism, nearly certainly NOT on the basis of desire for egalitarian democracy in all of the world (as they don't promote it nor practise it). More likely on the basis of Islamic waqf, especially concerning oversight of historical holy places.

    Iran STILL funds, arms, trains militants with the long-term objective of removal of Israel, and through extra-legal militias (even as it suppresses anything that resembles a threat to the Iranian state).

    Jews in Iran are not Zionist, in the sense that they do not desire to self-govern.

    Those that do are enemies to Iran, and enemies to confused people in the states, Europe and Arab world.

  19. MRW. says:

    The people who were persecuted after the Iranian revolution were the Baha'is for a reason I forget. Iranian Jews were not. If Iranian Jews fled, it was their internal fear that caused it, not any external event. There were no reported incidents involving Jews in Iran, and you can search the NYT archives in an attempt to find one, but you wont.

    Instead of paying attention to the overwrought rants of our resident zionist burrs, read this from someone who lived there during the Iranian Revolution, an Iranian Jew who wrote in the World Jewish Digest:
    Our Iranian Allies by Roya Hakakian

  20. Richard Witty says:

    Most of the Iranian Jews that left did so following 1948, some voluntarily some not, same is in other Islamic communities. Jews were persecuted in Iran following the revolution largely on political grounds associated with their religious association.

    Currently, Jews are not peers in Iran, but accepted minorities.

    It is true that a war between Iran and Israel would be an insult to history, but what is the cause?

    If Iran continues to fund, arm, train militias actively agitating on Israel's borders, aiming at Israeli civilians, don't you call that provocative?

    I do. When they stop, then maybe your point about war between Israel and Iran will be a level-headed approach.

    There is potential, but not based on current Iranian behavior.

  21. Jim Haygood says:

    'Imagine a "one state solution" with 200 nukes and a different finger on the trigger. I'd rather not. I like democracy but I'm not a Puritan about it.' — doug

    Ah HA! Well of course, that would be a COMPLETELY different situation. The U.S. would immediately demand that the new state sign nuclear treaties, permit international inspections, negotiate missle reductions, etc. etc. — all the demands which are completely absent today.

    By any rational standard, a country with undeclared nuclear weapons, involved in frequent shooting wars with its neighbors, is a radical threat. It's unbelievably reckless that the U.S. lets Israel get away with this. There can be no greater double standard than saying it's OK as long as Jews are in charge, but if Arabs finally get some power, it's time to crack down.

  22. LeaNder says:

    Seven, simply "Sign In" get yourself a free TypePad account, then you don't need to type in the captcha every time you sent a comment.

  23. Eva Smagacz says:

    This is another quote from the Cohen's article:

    (..)
    Perhaps I have a bias toward facts over words, but I say the reality of Iranian civility toward Jews tells us more about Iran — its sophistication and culture — than all the inflammatory rhetoric.

    That may be because I’m a Jew and have seldom been treated with such consistent warmth as in Iran. Or perhaps I was impressed that the fury over Gaza, trumpeted on posters and Iranian TV, never spilled over into insults or violence toward Jews."
    (…)

    There is a palpable fear in some people that ANY criticism of anything Jewish – as in case here – Zionism – will deteriorate into pogroms and another genocide of Jews.

    It may be this fear, rather than inability to separate right from wrong that drives Israel apologists.

  24. chris berel says:

    By your rational standard, sure. By a reasonable standard, sorry, doesn't wash. Your tepid antisemitic remark towards the end betrayed why you confuse rational and reasonable.

    It is entirely possible that the US has less concern because the trigger finger belongs to a group with a bedrock foundation of what is considered post-WWII western civilization.

    The actual Iranian power is a theocracy bound by a 7th century religious clash of civilization mentality.

  25. See Chris Hedges on:

    "A Choice Between Peace and Peril

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090223_a_choice_between_peace_and_peril/

    Posted on Feb 23, 2009 By Chris Hedges

    Bibi Netanyahu’s assumption of power in Israel sets the stage for a huge campaign by the Israeli government, and its well-oiled lobby groups in Washington, to push us into a war with Iran."

  26. chris berel says:

    Reminds me so much of the hysteria from this forum concerning Israel using the cover of the Iraq war to ethnically cleanse Israel. The only thing that pushes the US into war is the interests of America and its citizens.

  27. And thanks for the great articles, friends: they were fascinating.

  28. Suzanne says:

    Most of the Iranian Jews that left did so following 1948, some voluntarily some not, same is in other Islamic communities. Jews were persecuted in Iran following the revolution largely on political grounds associated with their religious association.

    The Persian Jews I know of came here directly from Iran after the revolution. They had their assets taken away from them and basically came here with nothing. They also feared for their lives. Not a sentiment singular to Jews, I might add.

    I read historically that there were anti-Jewish pograms. Not like on the scale of Europe, I believe. But religious (and I suppose ethnic) minorities were treated heavyhandedly depending on who was in power.

    One's status as second class citizen is always precarious…as Israeli Muslims are now seeing for themselves. The hypocrites here will happily talk about that but insist Iran is paradise. That is evil.

    Anyway, it is clear to me that Phil and Adam no longer see this as simply about Israel. It's nearing the point, I believe, where they'd sell their own mothers down the river.

    It is beyond me how they think this will come to any good. It won't.

  29. Suzanne says:

    PS…I'll have to ask…but I'm not convinced that everyone from the Iranian Jewish community here was politically active in Iran. I think there was a lot of fingerpointing for an excuse to steal assets and terrorize people into submission.

  30. @BLG

    Thanks for the link. It underlines what Naeim Giladi
    wrote in his book. For some obscure reason-(not) is the book hard to come by , but you can read some of it here
    Here he shed some light on the mysterious bombs in Bagdad your link mention. (Mordechai Ben Porat)

  31. American says:

    Laura Rozen on the new Israeli parliment. If you think our crackpots in government here are crazy take a look a this. The US just elected a black man as president and Israel is in full official racist,sexist and zio nazi bloom…there are gonna be fireworks.

  32. American says:

    @ syvanen

    "As I said before, antisemitism is needed by some Jews to give their life meaning.

    Posted by: syvanen | February 24, 2009 at 12:46 AM">>>>>

    I have said the same. It comes thru in the way they use the anti semitic thing as a answer and response to everything and try to equate Judism with zionism to make other jews think that if they are jews then they must believe in zionism too.

    Let's be clear …Judism is a religion, zionism is a cult. The first tactic of a cult is to prevent people from thinking for themselves.

    Here is the FBI checklist used to determine if a movement is a cult:

    *The group is focused on a idea to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.

    *The group is preoccupied with making money.

    *Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    *The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel.

    *The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader (s), and members.

    *The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.

    *The group's leaders and followers believe they are not accountable to any authorities.

    *The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group.

    *The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

    *Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group

  33. Hass says:

    Actually, even the Jews that "fled" to Israel would prefer to go back to Iran:

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1131043721479&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

    "So 10 months ago gray-haired Ishak gave up on the Zionist dream and began to move his family and belongings back to Iran. He filled some of his numerous suitcases and trunks with the Persian carpets, silverware, and home decorations he came here with, and flew to Turkey with his two sons. There they sent their new Israeli passports by express mail back to his daughter in Israel. Then they took out their Islamic Republic of Iran passports and boarded a flight to Teheran. "

  34. Suzanne says:

    American–you forgot to mention…ZOG is paying me $250 per post! That's how BIG AND IMPORTANT you are.

    Not sure how much Berel et al are getting.

    Be sure to include that in your checklist! Also: #10 on your checklist should be: JOOOOOOOS hiding under the bed! hahahaha!

  35. Ed says:

    @American,

    Wow, that FBI cult checklist fits Zionism to a T. Next they'll be saying there's an antisemitic conspiracy being carried out by G-men who model their cult profiles on Zionism.

    Suzy-ha-ha might be on to something: #10 on the list: cultists believe there are [boogey men, antisemites, etc] around every corner and hiding under every bed, and instill this fear in their fellow cultists for control and profit.

  36. Thom says:

    @"American"

    ROFLMAO "The leadership dictates how members should think"? LOL Haven't you hear the saying "two Jews, three opinions"? Jews obey local laws, so "not accountable" doesn't fit. We aren't preoccupied with making money any more than any other group (we make more on average because we are preoccupied with education and that tends to boost salaries). No on the exalted ends justifying unethical means. Regardless of what the Hamas propagandists, and their parrots here say, Israel has the most ethical military in the world. What other army calls, texts, and leaflets civilians to say "please get out of the way of your soldiers so you don't get hurt in the crossfire".

    @Suzanne. You need to take a remedial course in evil laughter. You have to start with "Mwa" as in "Mwahahahaha".

  37. Eva Smagacz says:

    Chris,
    Calling Israel apologists Israel apologists is anti-Semitic?

  38. Suzanne's mentor says:

    @ Suzanne

    "lso: #10 on your checklist should be: JOOOOOOOS hiding under the bed! hahahaha!

    Posted by: Suzanne | February 24, 2009 at 01:05 PM"

    You forgot # 11: Anti-semites hiding under the bed! hahahahah!

  39. Citizen says:

    @ Thom

    "ROFLMAO "The leadership dictates how members should think"? LOL Haven't you hear the saying "two Jews, three opinions"? Jews obey local laws, so "not accountable" doesn't fit. " No on the exalted ends justifying unethical means."

    If two jews, three opinions, than why don't the other two jews speak up, and in public? All the USA masses ever hear is one opinion. Phil and commenters here have documented this forever. If you want to know what the single opinion is, just send an email, letter, or make a phone call questioning Israel's policies. Given jews have so many opinions, why is there only one coming from their major oganizations, and for so long? Why do 99% of USA Congress have that same single opinion, and why is identical to AIPAC's talking points? I mean, it's not like American Jews are living as ethnic Germans did during the NAZI regime, where when they had a radio it is given to them by Goebbel's propaganda ministry. And it's not like American Jews are subject to the harassment of the state under color of law.

    "We aren't preoccupied with making money any more than any other group (we make more on average because we are preoccupied with education and that tends to boost salaries). "

    Yeah, right, money is no more important to a typical jew than it is to a typical gentile. Look at the stats.
    Readers here can look at their own experience to see if that's more or less true. Lot's of google info is available too, to check if there's a pattern. Can't deduce from that? And being recognized as a MOT
    means nothing too? Try some American Jewish writers on that, e.g., Philip Roth. And, why not check out the recent thread on this blog, one example I recall is Noble prize recommendations, another is
    Hollywood, yet another is suggested by the names on Wall St, and on the Fed Reserve Board. The Mafia
    dons always said, "What Mafia?" There was never an OLd boys WASP club, so there's no MOT club either–wonder what Madoff would say about either?

    "Regardless of what the Hamas propagandists, and their parrots here say, Israel has the most ethical military in the world. What other army calls, texts, and leaflets civilians to say "please get out of the way of your soldiers so you don't get hurt in the crossfire".

    More ethical than the USA military, for example? How so? Try listening to the IDF vets in Breaking The Silence. They were there, you were not. You can hear what they have to say on YouTube.

    PS: I don't remember hearing of US soldiers shitting all over the place in homes they temporarily occupied. Or breaking kids' bones for throwing stones at tanks. To the extent the US soldiers engaged
    in torture, I think a reasonable case can be made they were copying what policy makers borrowed from
    Israel IDF policy.

  40. chimpsky says:

    @ American:

    You are so right! Ziontologists do long for antisemitism as it is the raison d'etre of Ziontology.

    This is Chomsky discussing an interview with a settler:

    "One great achievement of the Lebanon war was that it aroused anti-Jewish passions throughout the world, so that now 'they hate all those nice Zhids' (an anti-Semitic slur) who write books and play music, all those now often derided in Israel as 'beautiful souls.' "This man's goal is 'to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel, to burn them, to make us hated by all, to make the ground unstable beneath the feet of the Jews in the Diaspora so that they shall be forced to rush here crying."

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

  41. Thom says:

    @Citizen

    The consistency of opinion on the issue of support for Israel is not because Jews march in lockstep. We argue about a lot of things. Whether the sun shines isn't one of them. Likewise, whether there should be an Israel isn't one of them either (though in both cases, there is a small lunatic fringe who might argue the point).

    I expect Bernie Madoff would say whatever he thought would help Bernie Madoff, whether it was true or not. Jews are no different from other people in that some Jews are criminals, just as some members of any other group are criminals. Bernie Madoff is different only in scale from the Ponzi scheme con artists that use their membership in Christian churches to lull their coreligionists into a false sense of security and trust. He stole from Jews and Gentiles alike, so he was an equal opportunity scumbag.

    I never heard of U.S. forces giving up the element of surprise so they could tell civilians to evacuate an area that was going to be attacked.

    Got a source for "breaking kids bones for throwing stones at tanks?"

    What stats? You aren't making any sense. We win lots of Nobel prizes because we are more focused on education that average. Or is that a big conspiracy too?

    BTW, in one of your earlier posts, you seemed to be under a false impression as to what "Goyim" means. It means "Nations".

    What does MOT mean?

    Oh, and Hamas Charter.

  42. Citizen says:

    Anyone carrying to test if the word "Goyim" or "goy? or "shicksa" or "shaggot" (various spellings occur) is pejorative can either google those terms, or read American Jewish literature, or they can can gift themselves with Hollywood movies or Canadian movies and sitcoms. Why don't you start with The Apprentice Of Duddy Krawitz, written by a Canadian jew with some real moral integrity? You could also read old Yiddish tales, readily available at your local library. That's my recommendation for those Gentile Americans who
    don't have their own personal experiences to consult. (Those who minimally don't watch where their tax dollars are going, and what their representatives are doing in their name, thanks to USA campaign finance laws.) Of course the USA's literature on this issue does not exist alone–Eva has shared some word of mouth from Jews living in Poland, for example. She didn't edit such, merely quoted it. If you think the old Establishment WASPs have been critiqued in classic literature, and in politics, and rightly so, then
    you should start searching for the same within the new Establishment–the one Phil is so aware of.

    And that does not mention the actual goys who are concerned about this pattern, only Jews who make the tribal mistake of depicting the world as it actually is, and was.

  43. Suzanne says:

    Citizen—I suspect you're a bit of a troubled lad, and I'm surely wasting words on you.

    Duddy Kravitz is not the prototype of the Jew, but rather a profile of the dark side of cultural traits. In this case Jewish.

    The thing is, EVERY ethnicity, culture, religion etc, possesses that dark side. Without exception. Lots of authors from countries like Germany, Spain, England–certainly the US have written critically of their respective dark side.

    Here's my point: I fear that you are a bit too focused on the Jew to the exclusion of examining your own dark side.

    I challenge you to be honest. Do you mind saying what your ethnic makeup is, and how that dark side expresses itself in said ethnicity(s)?

    I have low expectations that this request will be met with integrity or honesty.

    But asking, and observing the response (or lack thereof) will be interesting nevertheless. Thank you.

Leave a Reply