Collision with Obama over Palestinian state? AIPAC rank-and-file shrug it off

by on May 5, 2009 44
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How important is Palestinian statehood to the AIPAC faithful? How likely is a confrontation between Obama and the Israel lobby? Answers: Not very important. And, likely.
I talked to a dozen AIPAC members last night and this morning and got the following consensus: Palestinian statehood is an essential element of Middle East peace, ultimately. It's our goal. It's in our lobbying package-- "a viable Palestinian state." But it has many, many preconditions. Security first. You can't just give a state to terrorists. You have to have a true partner; there is none now. We got rockets by giving up land before; we're not about to do it again without many guarantees.
That's a consensus. Some members were more hardline than that--a state is not a goal--and one or two were were more dovish, saying it was important. But even a dove said to me, Negotiations paved the way to Bergen-Belsen.
I said to some of these members: "Obama may well say, former terrorists formed part of the Iraq government; and Kosovo Muslims got a state without delay; Palestinian Arabs have been promised a state by the international community for 61 years. It's time for political self-determination for these people, and Arab states say it's the core issue."
The members said, That's preposterous, and started arguing with me. The Palestinians don't have any political self-determination among themselves!
And many of the members said that a confrontation between Obama and Netanyahu may well be in the cards. We don't know yet.
But the members I talked to said that AIPAC and Obama would come to terms. "It's like a marriage, do you argue with your wife?" one said. I said, "France and the U.S. got a separation during the Iraq process." "Yes they did, but that won't happen here. AIPAC leadership is very pragmatic. They will express their views strongly but politely. They will come down to Washington even more often..."
The lobby is united, wary, but strong.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Israel Lobby, Israeli Government, Neocons

{ 44 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. jdva says:
    May 5, 2009 at 3:18 pm

    "It's like a marriage, do you argue with your wife?" one said. So Israel's the boy and Obama's the girl?

  2. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 3:43 pm

    “We got rockets by giving up land before; we're not about to do it again without many guarantees.” The Israelis got a few rockets that killed a few people over many years for not granting the Palestinians their long-promised state, and for continuing to ethnically cleanse the West Bank and kill and persecute Palestinians in droves, even as they vacated the most highly-concentrated refugee camp on earth in Gaza while leaving it hermetically sealed from the outside world, rendering it politically and economically isolated. Are the Palestinians supposed to thank them for that? This is comparable to the kind of madman who kidnaps and rapes his victim for decades on end in his basement, and then lets her out, only to be chained in the back yard. He now wants credit for releasing her from the basement. Should such a person be congratulated, or arrested, imprisoned, and executed?

  3. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    "Negotiations paved the way to Bergen-Belsen." Oh, I see. Therefore ipso-facto ALL negotiations are inherently evil. All that is acceptable is allowing Jewish Zionists to eternally have their way, regardless of their behavior. Anything less ends at Bergen-Belsen. In reality, the road to Bergen-Belsen began by allowing Jewish Bolsheviks to have their way in the Soviet Union, murdering millions. A straight line can be drawn from that point directly to Bergen-Belsen. Therefore, giving Jewish Zionists their way is exactly the WRONG thing to do. It is groups like AIPAC that engineer the tracks to Bergen-Belsen.

  4. Shafiq says:
    May 5, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    It's time to get a divorce

  5. Mooser says:
    May 5, 2009 at 4:52 pm

    "Negotiations paved the way to Bergen-Belsen." Maybe he really doesn't want to bring those particular negotiations up. His argument might go better if he lets those alone.

  6. RowanBerkeley says:
    May 5, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    oh, you blame "Bergen-Belsen" on the Soviets?

  7. Mooser says:
    May 5, 2009 at 4:55 pm

    "In reality, the road to Bergen-Belsen began by allowing Jewish Bolsheviks… Ed, did you know that there is a Star-of-David concealed within the Communist hammer-and-sickle? It's like one of those color-blindness tests. Take a look at at old Societ Union flag on the web and if you stare at it for an hour or two (sometimes it takes several days, better start now) you'll see it. Let us know how you make out.

  8. jdva says:
    May 5, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Oddly, there is a Star of David on the back of the dollar bill. It landed there in 1935: http://i39.tinypic.com/246l35l.jpg I'm sure it's all some strange coincidence.

  9. Sin Nombre says:
    May 5, 2009 at 5:40 pm

    One can be a little too flip dismissing Ed's statement. In the very first place is hard to see Hitler coming to power if he hadn't had the German people scared shitless by what the Bolsheviks had already done and promised to repeat in Germany if they took over. (People like Trotsky talking about loosing rivers of blood and etc.) And then of course even if Hitler still had come to power the question is whether he would have unleashed the Holocaust absent his war with the Bolsheviks and etc. and so forth. Nothing laughable about Ed's point. Not near proven, but not near laughable either.

  10. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 5:46 pm

    @ Mooser and Rowan, Yes, I understand that visiting the mass murder perpetrated by statist-leftists is as uncomfortable and unpleasant for left-liberals as visiting the atrocities perpetrated by statist-Zionists is for Israelis and their supporters. Both would prefer to sweep it all under the rug so they continue down their respective dysfunctional roads indefinitely. Both would prefer to point there own fingers instead of looking in the mirror. Both are suffering from arrested development. Let me recommend a book I recently came across to each of you, The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel by Jack Bernstein, which has long excerpts here: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/israel.htm [cont'd in reply]

  11. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Bernstein goes into detail of how Jewish Socialists brought their politics with them from the Soviet Union, and have employed them on behalf of the Zionist project to this very day. What I find interesting is the seamless means by which authoritarian-extremists manage to put the powerful states they construct to work on behalf of their own personal aggrandizement and profit even as their politics move from Left to Right. We've seen this demonstrated by Jewish Zionists both in Israel, and in America. What it "proves" is that political identity if fluid, and today's authoritarian left-winger may well be tomorrow’s authoritarian right-winger, so it's better to take the dangerous instrument of state out of everyone's hands, because God knows what these authoritarian types attracted to coercive state power will be thinking and doing tomorrow. Those with an angry child's mind should not be allowed near loaded guns.

  12. Judge Judy says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    It's obviously at the very least, a time for a formal separation if not yet outright divorce, and not in a no-fault state of jurisdiction. Obama need to fill in the complaint and mark the appropriate box. Will he do this in ultimate concern for the American children, and all their neighbors, or will he put his small head in the sand, hoping against long-term hope that the mutual differences are not real? His spouse is hard-wired and, so far, much more cunning than he seems. We will know beyond a doubt which way this marriage will go before Xmas of 2010, and hence, the future of the children. Eventually, the Court Of Justice will determine the age-old menu, what's in the best interests of the children?

  13. Mother Theresa says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:29 pm

    Out of the mouth and eyes of the children, you shall know him. Err, which children?

  14. nurturenotnature says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Ah, the importance of Kindergarten. Let's see, who invented that? Are you sure?

  15. General Sherman says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:32 pm

    I won the war.

  16. Panzer TANK says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Economics won all wars.

  17. Shafiq says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:34 pm

    Isn't biblebelievers.au a neo-nazi site that thinks the protocols are true?

  18. YouDon't says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:35 pm

    That's why we have AIPAC

  19. Time says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    But we will eventually produce a new Lincoln.

  20. Autobahn says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    You mean, a new VW?

  21. ObamaNot says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:39 pm

    Ford is doing OK. It will take awhile. Don't count on Fiat. Who imagines Americans will ever buy Fiat, even if going to Greenland? Fiat has it chance.

  22. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    I don't know, but it happens to be hosting an excerpt of this book, which is unrelated to the site. Did you read the excerpt, or are you merely trying to defame the book by suggesting it's "neo-nazi" — the same tactic that Zionists often use dismiss legitimate critiques of their behavior?

  23. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 6:58 pm

    Hey, that's a great underground form of protest against the Jewish Zionist-owned US Congress and Fed: connect the dots on every dollar bill you come across. Even an idiot will have to wonder why its there and who inserted it.

  24. Doppler says:
    May 5, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    "But the members I talked to said that AIPAC and Obama would come to terms. "It's like a marriage, do you argue with your wife?" one said. I said, "France and the U.S. got a separation during the Iraq process." "Yes they did, but that won't happen here. AIPAC leadership is very pragmatic. They will express their views strongly but politely. They will come down to Washington even more often…" The lobby is united, wary, but strong." It seems to me that we need a strong Anti-Neocon Lobby to match AIPAC tit for tat. Let's divorce it entirely from whether one is Jewish or not, pro-Israel or not, Zionist or not. Let's define it in terms of the "clash of civilization," "the hundred years war" called for by the Neocons, versus reality-based diplomacy and leadership. Let's focus on the fact that the US is at war in Iraq and Afghanistan, with regular incursions and drone-attacks into Pakistan, which is a nuclear-armed Muslim country, with a deteriorating political situation. Let's focus on the fact that AIPAC's agenda is now centered around one thing, an attack on Iran, which they justify by emphatically but falsely defining as an immediate and existential threat to Israel. Let's focus on the map running for two thousand miles from Iraq, through Iran to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and recognize that the consequences of AIPAC prevailing in its escalating drumbeat for war against Iran is a hopeless American military quagmire across half the Asian continent. Let's force the creation of a Palestinian state, and encourage, through carrots and sticks, humane and legal Israeli actions vis a vis its neighbors. Let's hold the Neocons and AIPAC responsible for the blunders in Iraq, in prematurely short-changing the effort in Afghanistan, in adopting fascist-like programs of torture, renditions, secret prisons, pervasive wire-tapping, and bullying instead of diplomacy, because without accountability, these blunders will be repeated. Let's go after our Congresspersons for being or enabling Neocons, for their role in the series of Neocon blunders.

  25. SimoHurtta says:
    May 5, 2009 at 8:00 pm

    Well Bergen-Belsen was mostly full of Soviet prisoners of war. Most people in Bergen-Belsen died to malnutrition and typhus. By the way Germany and Soviet Union both attacked Poland and divided it. Britain, France, Canada etc declared war to Germany but not to Soviet Union. Why is a very interesting question in this case when those countries had a defence pact with Poland.

  26. Mooser says:
    May 5, 2009 at 9:12 pm

    "One can be a little too flip dismissing Ed's statement" Oh, really? I would hardly think so. The only failure regarding Ed is not to be flip enough. Yeah, that's me, Ed, a regular red-diaper tot. One nice thing, when I hear all your prattle, it makes me feel young, brings me right back to the 1950's.

  27. Mooser says:
    May 5, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    "Marxist Israel" Sure, okay Ed. Marxist Israel! And I bet they're Lennonist, too. Hey, BTW, how's that reverence-for-the-cross thing working for Mel Gibson these days? Looks like he stopped in between stations for a trip to divorce court. I would have thought he would have entered the priesthood first.

  28. Mooser says:
    May 5, 2009 at 9:24 pm

    Somebody really needs to warn all those folks at the AEI and AIPAC about "Marxist Israel" I mean, can you imagine living in a place where, every time somebody says "We're going to war!" the next guy says "If we're going to war, we are going to have to raise the taxes!" And somebody pipes up, every goddam time "I got an Uncle who lives in Texas!". Believe me, I know what it is to live with Marxists! Can you imagine the military briefings of this totalitarian regime? "Men of the IDF, never forget; you are fighting for this country's honor", (waggles eyebrows in Central Committee aproved manner) and they all shout: "Which is more than she's ever done for herself!" Israeli Marxists, of course, shape the Special Relationship with the US: "Close? Are we close? Why, if we were any closer we would be behind them!" Damn those Israeli Marxists!

  29. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Mooser, did you read the link? I'll give it to you again: The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/israel.htm If you'd read it, you might not have bothered to construct your own diatribe of prattle. Besides, I'm not the one who said re AIPAC, Obama, and the Democrats: "It's like a marriage, do you argue with your wife?" That was an AIPACer. So we've got Marxist Dems, and racists (Jewish Zionist AIPAC) in an American marriage now. No wonder America resembles Israel more and more every day. Someone should write another book: The Life of an American Patriot in the Racist Marxist post-Christian U.S.

  30. Ed says:
    May 5, 2009 at 10:01 pm

    PS: It was probably one of the Bush ancestors who added the Star of David to the dollar bill back in the 30's. These Racist/Marxist types all bleed together into one, and coalesce around Big Government and centralization of power and finance. They despise libertarian diffusion of power, because it's too hard to force independent thinkers or sovereigns into compliance with their agenda. Therefore, any advocate of consolidation and centralization of State power is either their ally, or a useful idiot gullibly working on their behalf.

  31. Citizen says:
    May 5, 2009 at 10:34 pm

    Ed, Mooser is just a child. He means well, and I think he is not a racist, or chosen supremacist of his own volition; he just is rather ignorant of what you know about history. The Wild One is, after all, a rather weak role model for anyone serious about the human condition, and most especially, about those annoyed at the activity of the one current super power nation.

  32. Chrisberel says:
    May 5, 2009 at 10:46 pm

    Glad to see that you are not concerned about numbers. Since the numbers are meaningless, even one rocket out of Gaza is cause to invade. Thanks for permission. I'll wire ahead.

  33. Mooser says:
    May 5, 2009 at 11:54 pm

    So, Citizen, you agree with Ed that Bolshevik Jews are to blame for the awful things the Communists did, and they did this (be awful Bolsheviks) because they are Jews? And what Ed knows about history is mostly contained in John Birch and other right-wing tracts from the fifties. Look, I don't mind disparaging the Israeli regime, but I get tired of Ed's constant anti-semitic tropes. Jewish Bolsheviks, give me a break.

  34. Ben says:
    May 6, 2009 at 12:57 am

    Phil, You're not an anti-Semite, and anti-Zionism may not be anti-Semitism……but, in the spirit of honest debate, have you ever considered writing a post rebuking the anti-Semites who post on your website? Blaming the Bolshevik revolution on Jews, and blaming the Holocaust on Jewish Bolsheviks, is uglier and more venemous than anything you cover in the pro-Israel crowd. Ed's a real peice of work.

  35. MRW says:
    May 6, 2009 at 1:48 am

    But the members I talked to said that AIPAC and Obama would come to terms. "It's like a marriage, do you argue with your wife?" one said. I said, "France and the U.S. got a separation during the Iraq process." "Yes they did, but that won't happen here. AIPAC leadership is very pragmatic. They will express their views strongly but politely. They will come down to Washington even more often…" The lobby is united, wary, but strong.

    They are making a grave mistake. AIPACers have assumed that if they control DC they control the USA — hey! why not, it worked for the past 30 years. They obviously did not pay attention to how Obama won the election. A lot of Blacks in this country are Muslims. They're not all gospel-singing schwartzes the AIPACers think they can throw money at to shut up, invoke Zion, or commandeer a MLK award for, in Harlem no less, to feign solidarity. "Look what we Jews did for you," which I've heard said. A lot of Blacks in this country are Muslims, and dedicatedly so, quiet simple devotion, or have family members who are. Their silence isn't deference. Neither is it honor. It's observation. . . . .

  36. jdva says:
    May 6, 2009 at 7:08 am

    Use red magic marker. Rothschild means 'red shield'.

  37. RowanBerkeley says:
    May 6, 2009 at 7:59 am

    I actually wrote a post on Niqnaq about Jack Bernstein: http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/an-america...

  38. Shafiq says:
    May 6, 2009 at 10:11 am

    The excerpt on the USSR seems to be far-fetched at best and has no basis on fact. It's all hypothetical and claims that the various commissariats were dominated by Jews are pretty much all false

  39. Mooser says:
    May 6, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    "They're not all gospel-singing schwartzes" MRW Please, go fuck yourself, kindly do! Gospel music is wonderful, and forms the basis for almost all American Popular music at present. Gospel music (among many others) is a miraculous gift to American culture, one we didn't deserve. You stick with Laurence Welk, I'll take Gospel. And remember that old joke, where the boss says to his secretary "Miss, there are two words you shouldn't use in the office: One is "swell" and the other is "lousy". She replies, "Of coss, but what words are you referring to?" You really can lose those two words "schwartze" and "Shicksa", and BTW "Goyim". I have, and I'm much the better for it. If I can give them up, you can. I know, I know, that's three words, but who's counting? As the man said about his Indian pig: Sow new, So Sioux!

  40. Mooser says:
    May 6, 2009 at 2:36 pm

    "and I think he is not a racist," This from a guy who posits that Jewish persecution is "all your own fault". Ed, Citizen, you might be surprised, but Zionism can be defeated and Israel changed without anti-Semitism. I know that'll break your heart, but it's true. And please don't reply "Anti-semitic, who, me? Moi? Each of you manages to include at least one anti-semitic trope in each comment. Claiming Jews have a collective mind and consistent characteristics related to their Jewish religion or origin to positing Jewish international conspiracies.

  41. Citizen says:
    May 6, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    No, Mooser, I don't believe that Bolshevik Jews were solely to blame for the awful things the Communists did. I do know that Jews were very disproportionately involved as leaders in the early top party committees, the Red Army, and the Red version of the Gestapo. I do know the first Red law passed was against anti-semitism. I know there are a number of reasons for this, including the obvious, that Jews were more trustworthy than non-Jews to take away the power of the Czar regime, including the lives of the Czar family, the Russian Orthodoxy, the patriotic feel for the land inherent in the peasants, etc. Somewhat ironically, despite pogroms, the Jews also were disproportionately university grads and financers in pre-Red Czar domain. Ed knows more than John Birch about this. I suggest you read up on the literature, slowly becoming available in the West, including on the internet, and often written by Jews–Solzinitsyn (sic) wrote a book about it, interestingly not yet published in the the USA (though translated otherwise in Western lands) despite his great stature, although there is a composite of readings of his that includes some very revealing passages indicating the truth of the matter.

  42. Citizen says:
    May 6, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    OK, Mooser, but you need to look at the context of the comment in which I wrote what you quote. I do not mean to imply all Jews are the same, nor all responsible for what some very influential Jews do in the name of all Jews. I will try to watch what I write more carefully. Thanks for the reprimand. I do value your POV.

  43. Ed says:
    May 6, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    More left-wing airbrushing perpetrated by professional liars. Leftists are as ignoble and dishonorable as Zionists, and lies spill from their mouths at about the same furious rate.

  44. MRW says:
    May 6, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    Mooser, I COMPLETELY agree with you about gospel music and I was remiss not putting quotes in to indicate my sarcasm.

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