Richard Silverstein says:
I just signed a pledge of support for President Obama to act decisively and boldly to reach an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement. The President needs grassroots backing in order to go the whole nine yards for peace. There are powerful forces which want to drag out this process as long as possible or even stop it entirely. We must not let them win.
Please join me in pledging your support now.
I share the sentiment to back Obama if he stands up to the Israelis and their dead-ender supporters, however I object to signing on to an explicitly Jewish call. The Brit Tzedek site asks signers to identify themselves "I am Jewish; I am a non-Jewish ally The "we" here is meant to be Jews first and everyone else a supportive bystander. Although I recognize the tactical ysefulness of indicating "Jewish" support for Palestinian justice, this framing of the conflict as a "Jewish" issue first and foremost, rather than a matter of human rights and politics, plays into the Zionist/tribal framing. I won't be part of it.
I signed even though I object to the framing that the only opinion that matters is Jewish opinion (which pervades most discussion of these issues) because it is important for the right wing lobby to be broken. If the right wing lobby had to court non-Jewish opinion by standing up CUFI, I don't understand why Weiss and his cohorts don't do the same. But he has been doing this for a long time and he may know best. It's a shame because he is very persuasive.
To be honest, I have a difficult time believing that Obama has any interest in Middle East peace as he's rather busy ramping up the war on innocents in Afghanistan and Pakistan. I won't get fooled again.
I signed. I have reservations too, but they did allow identifying non-Jews sympathetic to what Obama faces to sign….
There needs to be continuous protests in front of the White House against military aid to Israel, against the settlements and against the American combatants in those settlements. Making trouble for the president will do more for the cause than being polite and respectful.
I signed.
With no objections, with support for Brit Tzedek.
I agree with you. Zionism-supporters make no bones about feeling that the sucess of Israel as a Jewish State is a responsibility incumbent on the world and deserving of its support. And the Zionist effort could not have come this far if it was the business of Jews alone. Making Israel change and at least relieving the collective punishment of those in the Occupied territories is a humanitarian position which can be subscribed to by anybody. And it will be, no matter how much the Zionist supporters scream we are not worthy of disagreeing with them.
I, too, jdva, have a really hard time seeing how he is going to go one way in Af-Pak and another way in Palestine. And I'm very disappointed by his seeming reversal of positions pretty clearly stated in the campaign. Has Obama forgotten that the wars were based on false pretexts? Being afraid to start a war is one thing, often a good thing. But being afraid to stop a war, when it is within your power, and represents the position of most who voted for you? That is so goddam craven it's beyond belief. Was it the Power-Point presentations? The urgent whisperings from Generals set to the music of clinking medals? And does Obama think the Officer class is ready to do him any favors, or sacrifice for him? I doubt they are, more likely, they will have no problem watching Obama take the blame. And what makes Obama think the military can do for him what they failed to do for George Bush, in spite of seven years trying? In the context of all that, we will have to see if Obama is ready to confront Israel's leaders with anything more than a frown.
Obama's Af-Pak war created one million refugees last week. The New Holocaust has begun.
How could Obama fall for the same "We-can-do-this-Sir" bullshit as Bush? What the hell good thing is going to happen for Obama which the military couldn't acheive for Bush? Obama can't be that stupid, vain and nieave, could he? Not to mention the absolute lack of compassion or human decency which undergird our policies. Create a million refugees? Sure, it'll all be fine when we "transform" Af-Pak. Sometimes I almost want to believe they have films of Obama with a white girl, or a black boy. The alternatives are much, much worse. So Obama's gonna take the Army, the military remains of what Bush used as a throw-away force, and win something with it? This I gotta see.
Sorry, just can't get over Obama sometimes.
Here is an email I sent to those delusional Jews at Brit Tzedek In Germany in the 30s, there were many Jews who felt more German then the Germans. Many of them didn't even consider themselves Jewish and looked down in contempt at their visibly Jewish "brethern" Their cultured German neighbours paid no heed however, and loaded them up to the gas chambers right next to those "other" Jews with the help of Jewish Kapos. Today, there are people like you who are just as ready to sell the Jews down the river, since you consider yourself the "nice good Jews" not like us nasty Israelis who fight for their right to exist. You even declare to the whole world that you are the nice Jews, not like those Israelis. Shame on you all.
Have you met them? They rationally believe that a state in diplomatic relations with its neighbors is more secure than one at permanent war.
Right, and we Israelis who actually fight in these wars and lose family and friends want permanent war? Don't you think Israelis want peace with their neighbors so that they and their kids don't have to deal with endless conflict, endless terror attacks in buses, cinemas, markets, pizzerias, passover dinners, thousands of rockets fired at their towns and cities etc. "Have you met them? They rationally believe that a state in diplomatic relations with its neighbors is more secure than one at permanent war. "
Don't you think Israelis want peace with their neighbors? No, I don't. Plus, I'm sick of this endless gibbering and wailing about Nazis.
"I, too, jdva, have a really hard time seeing how he is going to go one way in Af-Pak and another way in Palestine. " I look at what Obama does, not what he says. If Obama was serious about Palestinian statehood, Bibi would have walked out of the White House looking like he got spanked.
"we Israelis who actually fight in these wars " Fight all you want. I wish you'd stop doing it with American money and weapons.
I actually wish that America would stop loaning and granting Israel money too. They can go back to being the strong independent nation, like in 1948 when they established sovereignty without other nations meddling. Although, then we would miss out on a LOT of technological, agricultural, military and medical advances. Also If America stops sending money, who will you whine about? If the Palestinians had independence tomorrow and then attacked Israel, what would be the appropriate response? what would you say? I would say "Told ya so"
A dead end has been reached, and it was apparent in the Obama-N meeting. Obama is not Shrub, nor Clinton. The Jewish paranoia about gentiles is meeting the black paranoia about whites, and, no matter what, the blacks see the Jews as having capitalized on "white privilege" as much, if not much more, then they laid down their lives for slaves, etc, or to stop Jim Crow. The blacks would be right, historically speaking–check out who owned the slave ships, or even the Spanish galleons, not to mention circa mid-1960's who was the average black person's slum landlord? Anyey, here you go–getting up to date re Obama-N: http://860wgul.townhall.com/columnists/PatBuchana...
"If the Palestinians had independence tomorrow and then attacked Israel, what would be the appropriate response? what would you say? " If America was free and clear of Israeli influence, I'd say nothing. It's not our business what nations are fighting with each other or why they fight.
Why? How about protesting China, a much larger number of people are killed there daily, their body parts are used for various cosmetics and other things sold around the world. The human rights issues there are absolutely atrocious. How about Saudi Arabia and Egypt… The women are oppressed under Sharia Law, there are far worse human rights violations, human slavery and these are both countries that receive aid money from the US.
Arabs were the largest slave traders, they rounded up native people and sold them from their native lands. Everyone knows this. The Barbary coast pirates even kidnapped Europeans and Americans in the 18th century in order to hold them for ransom. Sometimes these people were put into the slave trade too. I can recall a more than a few Jews that died side-by-side blacks in the 1960's. I'm not sure what your ultimate agenda is, but you clearly don't like blacks or Jews.
I am equally sick of ilk such as your self comparing every Palestinians scraped knees to the Holocaust.
The kind of response I expected from Berkley. If I said that all leftists are Communists and we all know how benevolent they were, you would get all upset and talk about generalizations, yet its ok for you to label Israelis that way. The Holocaust talk may sound like wailing to you, but to those of us whose families experienced it, Never Again means exactly that. Of course we then have another poster stating that Jews were responsible for the slave trade. I thought you were all only anti-Zionist not anti Jewish . "Don't you think Israelis want peace with their neighbors? No, I don't. Plus, I'm sick of this endless gibbering and wailing about Nazis."
Those Power-Point presentations can be devious, you know. (Have you seen the study of how Power-Point was to blame for NASA failing to spot the problems before the Columbia shuttle disaster, btw?)
You have no idea what 'Never Again' means. If you did, you wouldn't be Doing It Again.
During my Oxbridge days I remember reading of someone from my university who had visited Harvard College to be part of some international issues discussion. S/he was amazed at how the Harvard undergrads set about reordering the world, without ever even wondering about their right to do so nor whether the population of the rest of the world would follow their diktats. Anecdote doesn't make data, but I think that says something about how the ideology of 'leadership', 'acting decisively', &c. inculcated at some of these places can leave the U.S. with leaders that may have a very skewed idea of the world and their relationship to it.
'Never Again' what? That's the question that must be answered. 'Never Again' is just an empty slogan without specifying one is talking about.