Well it’s happened. Netanyahu started selling ethnic cleansing of Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem as equal opportunity for Jews, and lo, the lobby is parroting him. He has been joined by the Boston Globe, of all places, which prints a repulsive op-ed saying stopping Jews from taking over Palestinians’ houses is racist and, more predictably, by Morton Klein of the Zionist Org of America who says that it’s "racist" to keep Jews from buying houses there. Here’s Jeff Jacoby in the Globe:
It is impossible to imagine the opposite scenario: The administration would never demand that Israel prevent Arabs from moving into a Jewish neighborhood. And the Obama Justice Department would unleash seven kinds of hell on anyone who tried to impose racial, ethnic, or religious redlining in an American city. In the 21st century, segregation is unthinkable – except, it seems, when it comes to housing Jews in Jerusalem.
One of the reasons Israel is under pressure is that it’s impossible to imagine the United States bombing a black ghetto, killing 300 children. And what about the two-state solution? And what about the fact that as Haaretz points out, joining Lara Friedman of Peace Now, Palestinians can’t buy in West Jerusalem. Not to mention the apartheid policies in the West Bank.
89 children. Palestinians are not Israelis. Israeli Arabs can buy in West Jerusalem just as Jewish Israelis can.
You are a very dishonest person to try to claim this is a racial thing when it is purely about citizenship.
Israel didn’t bomb a “black area” or the equivalent (an Arab area in Israel). They attacked an enemy city that was the base of a terrorist organization that acts to maximize civilian casualties.
A better analogy would be “can you imagine the U.S. bombing an al-Qaida stronghold in Afghanistan and and killing children”. I don’t have to imagine it, we did. The U.S. has killed thousands of civilians (low estimate is over 5000 directly killed) in Afghanistan. How many of them were children?
So any of you Israel bashers think the U.S. shouldn’t have attacked Afghanistan for 9/11?
Not true.
Over 90% of West Jerusalem is denominated as belonging to Israeli/Jewish institutions.
The land can only be leased/purchased by Jews.
The small remainder–less than 10%–is in fact available for purchase by Christians or Muslims.
Thom, you truly are deluded. Israel, and it’s policies, are the most racist in the world. Go ahead and read the book by Jack Bernstein, about his experiences living in Israel. He was an Ashkenazi Jew, so by all accounts he should have had it made in the shade. But he made the mistake of marrying a Sephardic jewess. He goes on to relate the experiences he had that will make your stomach turn. And you can’t say he was an anti-semite either. I guess that’s why the Mossad assassinated him? I mean the only thing he ever did to anger Israeli’s against him was to publish this book. One thing for sure… even other jews are not immune from the racism of Israel, as Bernstein’s book, “Living in Racist-Marxist Israel” points out in detail. Read a brief summation of the book with excerpts here…
link to thetruthseeker.co.uk
I looked it over. I also looked it up. It is by “Jack Bernstein” and “Len Martin”. Len Martin is a serious white-power whacko. The sort that claims that Federal laws don’t apply to him because he is a “sovereign citizen”. A later edition of the 31 page “book” is listed as “by JAck Bernstein as told to Len Martin”. The book is full of lies and there is no indication outside of the “books” written by Len Martin that “Jack Bernstein” ever existed. The Mossad has better things to do than assassinate self-hating Jews. Again, the only indication that the man even died (or lived) is in the book by anti-Semite white-power leader Len Martin.
If you want to claim that the Mossad assassinated someone who there is no evidence he ever existed outside of a neo-Nazi written book, you are going to need more than an unsourced claim from that neo-Nazi written book to back it up.
Thom, isn’t it true that any Jew from anywhere in the world can immigrate to Israel and become a citizen? But that a Palestinian who might have been born in what is now called Israel is denied entry? It seems to me that Israel is awarding citizenship rights based on race, so how can you say “this is not about race, it’s about citizenship?”
And with regards to the war on Afghanistan, I have been against it from day one. The people in Afghanistan have never harmed us and there is no moral justification for what we have done to them. Just like there is no moral justification for whet the state of Israel has done to the people of Gaza.
@AnaSanchez
Last time I checked, you can’t convert to another race. There are Jews of every race, all welcome in Israel. The non-Jews who are citizens have the same rights as the Jews, but non-Jews who are not citizens have a harder (or impossible) time becoming a citizen. Still, nothing racial about it.
“The people in Afghanistan have never harmed us”? What cave have you been living in the past 8 years? I know the fans of Phil and Adam are stupid and ignorant, but I didn’t realize I would encounter someone who doesn’t know the following facts:
On September 11, 2001, 19 members of the terrorist group al-Qaida hijacked four American passenger jets. They deliberately crashed two of these jets into the World Trade Center in New York city causing the buildings to collapse. They deliberately crashed a third jet into the Pentagon. They crashed the 4th into the ground when the passengers tried to overpower them. In total they murdered about 3,000 Americans that day along with people from 90 other countries. In terms of deaths it was the largest single attack on America in our history.
The leaders of al-Qaida were headquartered in Afghanistan and fully supported by the government of Afghanistan, the Taliban. We demanded that Afghanistan hand over the terrorists. The Taliban decided that picking a fight with the USA after 9/11 was a better idea than handing over al-Qaida. I can’t imagine why they thought that was a good idea. Can you Ana?
Maybe if we can figure out why the Taliban thought it was a good idea to go to war with the USA rather than handing over bin Ladin, we can figure out why the Palestinians think it is a good idea to be at war with Israel.
We demanded that Afghanistan hand over the terrorists and the Taliban said, fine, not problem, just show us your evidence.
We said, we don’t need no stinking evidence and seeing as we want to build a pipeline through your country, we’ll bomb you.
The sad thing is that we let Bin Laden go anyway.
Evidence of previous behaviour was th route we took to justify the invasion of Iraq. Sorry, but a request for evidence of Bin Laden and al-Qaeda’s coimplicity in 911 was a resonable request. In fact, Colin Powell said he would present this evidence in a presentation, which he never got around to doing.
And no, they had no evidence this time, at least not against Bin Laben. He appears on the FBI most wanted list, but none of the charges against hm include 911.
As we have seen with Iraq, when the U.S. says “hand over the terrorist” you are fucked eitehr way, because it means they want your oil and are comming to get it.
In Iraq, we didn’t say “hand over the terrorist”. We just said “cooperate with the inspections or else”. Hussein decided that maintaining his bluff about having WMDs was a good idea. I still don’t think we should have invaded. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but still.
Also, the Taliban wasn’t some innocent bystander that happened to be the government of the country OBL happened to be staying. They knew al-Qaida was a bunch of terrorists and they helped them. Their choice was not “hand over someone who we don’t know is a terrorist without evidence” or get invaded. It was “hand over someone we know from previous evidence is a terrorist and split up with the terrorist group we have been helping” or get invaded.
BTW, sheltering a terrorist wasn’t evidence of past behavior, it was present behavior. They were still refusing to hand him over for his previous attacks. They also let him run terrorist training camps. This wasn’t some random guy, this was the leader of the terrorist organization they had been helping for years. The demand to the Taliban to split with the terrorists was a gift. They had committed an act of war against the U.S. just by their previous helping of the terrorists and the U.S. would have let them get away with it if they had broken with the terrorists. Instead, nope.
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these terrorist supporting governments. Do they think this is a game? Your terrorist ally attacks the U.S. then you get to play footsie about whether there is enough evidence to convince you that the terrorists you have been helping all along are guilty or not?
@pineywoodslim
If you mean Israel as a whole, 93% of the land can’t be sold to anyone. 13% is owned by a private non-profit company JNF and used to be leasable only to Jews, 80% has always been leasable by any citizen. Now, even the 13% can be leased by any citizen.
If you mean West Jerusalem specifically, I don’t know what percent was owned by the JNF, whatever portion it is, it is now leasable by any citizen regardless of religion.
The JNF, a quasi-governmental institution, by its charter will only lease to Jews. It has always been thus. The Qaadan decision by the Supreme Court did not deal with private institutions, it only suggested that the ILA (Israel Land Authority) should not discriminate against non-Jews in lands it sells or leases.
Hey, Thom, dude, when your guy Bibi changes the goalposts of the peace process and says that Israel must be recognized as a “Jewish state,” isn’t that a prima facie racist demand? I mean, let’s declare the U.S. as a “Christian state” or a “Caucasion state” while we’re at it. What’s the difference between the KKK and Israeli policies? When Lieberman wants to ehtnically cleanse Israel of all Arabs, do you stand with these nutjobs and say “amen?”
More to the point, Thom, is there “no daylight” between your position on the I/P conflict and Lieberman’s?
Give it up Thom, no one is buying your argument. Yes there are Jews of every race, but to give preferential treatment to Jews is still bigotry. Anti Semitism is racism, even though there are Jews of every race.
The fact that declaring the U.S. as a Christian Nation would be against the U.S. Constitution, proves that it is ademocracy. A democracy must be secular.
There are no nations with a state religion that claim to be democracies. Saudi Arabia is a tyranny. Are you suggesting that we regard Israel as one also?
There are Jewish citizens of Iran and re even Jews in their legislature. So your argument about token Arabs with no power or influence being allowed into Israel’s legislature fails that test too and dare I see, hypocritical?
Would you regard Iran as a democracy?
Lieberman has unambiguously said he wants a loyalty oath for all Arab, though I am relived to hear you think it’s a stupid idea. He has also said he wants to drown the Arabs in the dead sea and nuke the Aswan dam.
@Shingo
What color is the sky on your planet? There are lots of democracies with state religions. England for example. Have you heard of the Church of England? Are you aware that the Queen’s titles include “Defender of the Faith?”. That no reigning monarch may marry a Catholic? Let’s see, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Greece. All democracies and all with state religions.
The fact that declaring the U.S. a Christian nation is against the Constitution doesn’t “prove the U.S. is a Democracy” the Soviet Union had no state religion either, and it sure wasn’t a democracy.
What it proves is that we have a First Amendment that bans the government from establishing a state religion.
The U.S. is a secular democracy because the constitution makes it one, not LOL by divine commandment.
Democracy just means rule by the people. If you have that, you are a democracy. State religions are a side issue.
Oh, and there are not “Jews” in the Iranian legislature, there is “Jew”. Always one and only ever one, by law. There are 20-25 thousand Iranian Jews left in Iran. They stay despite being persecuted. Well, some of them stayed. Less than 10% of the world population of Persian Jews lives in Iran. The rest left because of religious persecution. The Jews in Iran may prefer mild persecution to picking up and leaving the only country they know, but the Jews in Israel have looked at the conditions of the Jews in Iran and said “not here, no way”.
If Iran actually had real elections, and its leaders were determined by those elections, it would be a democracy.
The Palestinians briefly had a democracy, sort of. In that they had a real election, of course the winners then murdered the losers in Gaza anyway, so maybe not.
The number of children massacred was at least 389, and none of them were 17 You have been repeating this BS for weeks now. In the centre of Derry, on 24th January 2009, members of Derry Anti-war Coalition (DAWC) read a list of the names of more than 400 children killed by Israel’s attack on Gaza over the last month.
They could hardly have known the names if they weren’t killed.
Your sordid rant about 17 year old suicide bombers is pure desperation. Children and you don’t dismiss their existence by some arbitrary standard.
Israel doesn’t even allow Arabs to build on their own land, much less buy land just like Jewish Israelis.
The UN had already concluded that 257 children weer killed in Gaza, when the total death toll was only 783.
link to channel4.com
So where do you get your 89 children dead figure from Thom? Hasbra.com?
If you can’t accept reality, that is YOUR problem.
That attempt at rebuke, Thom, is so lacking in any fact or truth that it doesn’t even warrant a proper response.
It’s not Hamas’s numbers. It’s the Palestinian Center for Human Rights. And the rest of your post is the typical dehumanizing rhetoric of right-wing Zionist fanatics.
Intellectually dishonest. Superficial. Grossly generalized. Etc.
You do this song and dance all the time. Doesn’t work on this blog. Go back to JPost/Haaretz/Ynet/etc. where all the other Zerglings are.
Mondoweiss presents, a Thom Production
Scene: Gaza
Situation: Operation Cast Lead
- Knock, knock.
- Who’s there?
- It’s your neighbor. Johnny.
- Johnny?
- Yeah, you know me, it’s Johnny . . .
- I don’t know any Johnny.
Cue white phosphorus weapons t kill all kids inside the home . . .
link to haaretz.com
Isn’t Jacoby just following the Israel Project script like Olmert: Olmert Follows Israel Project Script?
In any case, Israel advocates and racist Jewish Zionists have long worked on poisoning the language of human and civil rights:
Poisoning Human Rights Discourse
Civil Rights for Some Americans
I wonder whether Israel considers it racist to refuse to allow refugees to return to their homes, due to their ethnicity.
There is VERY little available land in West Jerusalem at all, and a very small portion of that is sold to non-Jews. Maybe there are a couple families that have bought land or leased in West Jerusalem.
It doesn’t compare though to the taking of land by the “absentee land act”, when the Palestinian individuals that owned the land were forcefully removed, and not permitted to assert their claims in Israeli courts. Then the land is transferred to the ILA and then sold to Israeli developers offering Jewish only residence.
Its not just. We might assert that theoretically Jews should be able to purchase land anywhere (assuming that they abide by the laws of the locale, including accepted immigration), but asserting that taking by force is legal or appropriate is another thing entirely.
Israel should operate by the rule of law.
It does operate by the rule of law. Nations have the right to make laws regarding ownership of land within their borders. The U.S. Constitution says that when the U.S. government does it they have to compensate the owners, but not all governments do. Most of the absentee land was confiscated 60 years ago. The Arabs who stayed in Israel kept their land, the Arabs that left lost theirs, as did absentee landlords who didn’t live in the area to begin with.
Nations do have the right to make laws regarding ownership of land within their borders, but Israel projects it’s authority outside of it’s own. East Jerusalem, teh West Bank and Gaza are not within those borders.
Most of the absentee land was confiscated 60 years ago. The Arabs who were not driven out kept their land, the Arabs that were ethnically cleansed lost theirs.
You’re wrong about that, as you are about most of what you say. You are going off half-cocked because you don’t understand the history and you are probably relying on sources that either outright lie or distort the truth. I would recommend you look for more reputable sources, because your present ones are giving you false information.
There are many Israeli Arab citizens who have had their land expropriated. Those who had their land expropriated in the aftermath of 1948 are referred to in Israeli (Orwellian) parlance as “present absentees”. From wikipedia:
Other Israeli Arabs had their land confiscated later and Israel continues to confiscate land owned by its Arab citizens and dedicate that land to Jewish housing and infrastructure. One of the most famous cases involved the Arab Israeli citizens of Biram and Ikrit, who were dispossessed in 1949, sued and won an Israeli Supreme Court decision in 1953 but now over 50 years later they have still not been allowed to return.
From the Association for Civil Rights in Israel’s State of Human Rights Report:
And your interpretation of the Supreme Court decision in the Qaadan case is faulty. The quasi-governmental JNF has NOT been required to lease to non-Jews and continues to serve only the Jewish community in Israel. Only the ILA, which is a fully governmental body was admonished by the court to stop discriminatory practices in land sales and leases. However, the ILA has continued to try to skirt that legal ruling, and, since there is no required enforcement of Supreme Court decisions in Israeli law, it has been mostly successful at it.
I am replying to Thom above in case it is not immediately apparent, who is falsely claiming that no Israeli Arab citizen had his land confiscated by Israel. I forgot to include the link to ACRI’s State of Human Rights in Israel 2008. Here it is:
link to acri.org.il
I might suggest that everyone here read it. Although it covers more than just the inequality faced by the Arab citizens of Israel, it gives the lie to much of what Thom has professed here. There is no equality between the Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel and the Israeli Arabs have faced continuing confiscation and expropriation of their land throughout the 60 plus years of Israel’s existence.
A one-way heart valve is NOT rule of law.
Its not rule of law in Palestine, that prohibits new sales of land to Jews, and its not rule of law in Israel, that functionally (if not in writing) prohibits new sales or leaseholds to non-Jews.
[Khaleej Times] Of Conspiracies and Plots can help explain why Jacoby’s type of crude Zionist propaganda appears in the Boston Globe.
Thom knew that Joachim. The guy is pathetic. Read his posts – pounces at every opportunity to make a superficial ‘gotcha’ comment.
But it’s still superficial. This insincerity/intellectual dishonesty is a trait amongst the more aggressive Zionist commentators (ex: ‘Israel withdrew from Gaza and got rockets in return.’)
Like I keep saying, these people are garbage. They wouldn’t be able to get away with the theft of Palestine and all that it entails if they weren’t so corrupt and wealthy.
There is nothing dishonest in saying that Israel withdrew from Gaza and got rockets in return. Israel did withdraw from Gaza and the Palestinian response to the withdrawal was to increase their rate of firing rockets and mortars into Israel.
Saying Israel withdrew from Gaza is like saying that the Enola Gay was just doing a fly by over Hiroshima.
What Thom leaves out is that from the day Israel withdrew, it suffocated Gaza. over the 12 months that followed, Israel fired 7,700 shells into Gaza. Shells which are much more deadly than any Palestinian rockets or mortars.
The one and only comprehensive scholarly history of Israeli settlements n the occupied territories, which has just been translated into English, is called “Lords of the Land”, by Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar . It reads.
“After Israel withdrew it’s forces from Gaza, in August 2005, the ruined territory was not released for even a single day from Israel’s military grip, or from the price of the occupation that the inhabitants pay every day. Israel left behind scotched earth, devastated services, and people with nearly a present or a future. The Jewish settlements were destroyed in an ungenerous move by an unenlightened occupier, which in fact continues to control the territory and kill and harass it’s inhabitants, by means of it’s formidable military might.”
Excerpts from Living in Racist-Marxist Israel” by Jack Bernstein…
“”For the first three years of our marriage, it was necessary for us to live with Ziva’s aunt. This was because of the critical housing shortage in Israel and because of racism. Housing is allotted as follows:
* Ashkenazi Jews who have lived in Israel for many years are given first choice.
* Second in line are Ashkenazi Jews from Europe — especially if they are married or marry an Israel-born Ashkenazi Jew.
* The next favored are Ashkenazi Jews from the U.S. — especially if they marry an Israeli born Ashkenazi.
* Sephardic Jews have the next choice of whatever housing is left.
* At the bottom of the list are Moslems, Druze and Christians.
Opportunities for employment follow the same pattern: Ashkenazi Jews get the choicest jobs, Sephardic Jews next, and Moslem, Druze and Christians fill the menial jobs with a great many left unemployed. Even through I was an Ashkenazi Jew from the U.S., I was placed lower on the list for housing because I married a Sephardic Jewess.
Being denied housing was my second experience of the intense racism that exist in Israel. From the very beginning of my arrival in Israel, many slurs were yelled at me. We American Jews were merely being tolerated. Because Israel, to survive, must depend on gifts of American Jews and the sale of worthless Israeli Bonds in America, there is jealousy among the elite Israeli Ashkenazi Jews toward American Jews, even if the American Jews are also Ashkenazi. Many times I was told, “Go Home!” and, “We want your money, but not you.”
However, there was a portion of the American Jews who were welcome and given favored treatment. They were the card-carrying communist Jews.
Of the 50.000 American Jews who, like myself, had migrated to Israel between 1967 and 1970 about 20% (10.000) of them were Marxist oriented with a great number of them actual card carrying communists. They were welcomed by the Israeli authorities and local Ashkenazi and were given favored treatment — housing, jobs and social life. It must be noted besides coming from the U.S., a great number of communist Jews were migrating to Israel from Chile, Argentina and South Africa.
Of the 50.000 who had migrated to Israel during that time, 80% of us eventually returned to the U.S. The 20% who remained were those who were card-carrying communist or sympathetic to Marxism.
Israeli laws suppress all religion — For instance, it is against the law to try and convert a Jew to another religion even if the Jew is an atheist or humanist.
A Christian is permitted to preach the gospel in a church building, but for the clergy or anyone to even tell one about teachings in the Bible outside the church building will bring a 5 years prison sentence.
For a Christian to give a Bible or religious article to a Jew will also bring a 5 years sentence. Even an act of kindness by a Christian toward a Jew, such as giving a gift of food, can be interpreted as trying to convert the Jew to Christianity and can bring a 5 year prison sentence.
This same law of religious suppression applies to those of the Islamic faith who in an act of kindness give a gift of any kind to a Jew. A 5 year prison sentence can result. “”
Now tell me… is this not racism? And all this above is coming from an Ashkenazi jew about his own experiences in Israel. His writing this book angered jews so much, they killed him for it after he had already withstood 100′s of death threats.
LOL. I looked into the “book” pamphlet would be a more accurate description. It is by “Jack Bernstein” and Len Martin. Len Martin happens to be the leader of “Posse Comitatus” a violent anti-Semitic group. We are talking serious lunatic here, I mean Timothy McVeigh type stuff.
Martin is also the author of:
“Frank Walus: A Frame-Up Victim of the Nazi Hunters, by Len Martin. Martin is a leader of the Posse Comitatus, a violent and anti-Semitic American grassroots organization. Martin has written that the CIA and the FBI are not part of the US government, but part of the worldwide “Jewish Police.” The content of the Frank Walus book is an attempt to undermine the efforts of the Office of Special Investigations, a branch of the U.S. Department of Justice devoted to the prosecution of Nazi war criminals.”
As far as Jack Bernstein, other than the mention in the book by Martin, there is no indication that he ever existed. No reports on how or when he died, nothing about his life outside of the “book” by Martin. The copyright office website lists that as the only book by that Jack Bernstein. There are a couple of others floating around the net, all “coauthored” by Len Martin. In short, most likely Len Martin simply made him up, along with everything else in the “book”.
Congrats BTW, most of the anti-Semites here just cite fake quotes from real people, you cited a fake quote from a made up person, way to raise the bar.
Zionist just dismiss any quotes they don’t like the sound of as fake and attribute them to anti-Semites.
That’s odd, I thought I already replied to this once.
The copyright office says the book was by an anti-Semite, not me. Len Martin, of Posse Commitatus is the listed co-author. As for “Jack Bernstein” I can find nothing to suggest that he ever existed. The only writings supposedly by him are the copyrighted book also by Len Martin and a few non-copyright-registered “books” also by Len Martin. There is no other information about this Jack Bernstein. No report of his life outside of the Len Martin books, no reports of his death outside of the Len Martin books.
Couple that with the fact that the book itself is the kind of pure lies and venom you expect from an anti-Semitic, survivalist, white-power, “the Federal governemtn has no authority over me” nutjob like Len Martin and it raises enough suspicion that I think the burden is on you Mondo, to show some evidence that “Jack Bernstein” is something other than a made up character by a white-power lunatic looking to attack Jews.
“He has been joined by the Boston Globe, of all places, which prints a repulsive op-ed saying stopping Jews from taking over Palestinians’ houses is racist and, more predictably, by Morton Klein of the Zionist Org of America who says that it’s “racist” to keep Jews from buying houses there. ”
Are you serious in accusing the Boston Globe of “joining”? It printed an op-ed.
When you post a article expressing solidarity with the government of Iran, over the dissenters, is that then YOU stating?
Should we hold you to that?
If it’s part of a pattern of behavior Witty – then I understand the ‘joining’ part.
You’re nitpicking. You’re jumping the gun. Does the Globe have a history of publishing hard-line, we-are-the-Chosen, God-is-our-real-estate-agent, Zionist babble on a regular basis? Do they give a voice to the Palestinian cause? Is it meaningful and not superficial?
People often do not answer these prerequisites – they have an idea of them in their head. They don’t preface their articles in which they imply/accuse a mainstream news media source of blah blah blah by going through those questions every single time.
Maybe Phil should have. That would put your shallow gotcha comment to rest.
I mean, there’s plenty of context for this perspective. There have been studies on the MSM with specific regard to the I-P conflict.
Here’s one example on the NY Times vs. Haaretz, from Harvard (superficial credibility to make sure you don’t reply to me with your yuppie intellectual dishonesty):
link to belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu
There is books like ‘Manufacturing Consent’. Blah blah blah.
Don’t act like the Globe just opened up shop yesterday.
Here is an August 2007 Arutz Sheva article on leasing discrimination by the ILA: link to israelnationalnews.com
.
link to israelnationalnews.com
I have not been able to find evidence that the Kaadan’s were actually able to move into their home in 2008 in accord with the court ruling, but the appointment of Lavi in March 2008 to head the ILA ( link to haaretz.com
) indicates that the Israeli government is attempting to neutralize the pro-Kaadan ruling.
I have not been able to find evidence that the Kaadan’s were actually able to move into their home in 2008 in accord with the court ruling (of August 2007), but the appointment of Lavi in March 2008 to head the ILA ( link to haaretz.com
) indicates that the Israeli government is attempting to neutralize the pro-Kaadan ruling.
For anyone interested in more information about the situation in East Jerusalem I would recommend reading this:
Association for Civil Rights in Israel: Jerusalem Fact & Figures 2008
Small samples:
….
In Israel there is nothing that is not skewed institutionally by the occupation and racism. The racism is by definitive quality, the occupation is illegal activity. Asking for equal housing rights is not the same as ejecting Palestinians from their ancestral homes in Jerusalem, using the skewed judicial system in the process. Unfortunately there is nothing untouched by these above stated processes in Israel, it calls into question the whole nature of the society which essentially because of its underpinnings makes it an illegitimate exercise. Nothing can be taken seriously in regard to Israeli claims because of the current condition.
As Moshe Sharett said it best when he came to the conclusion that Israel cannot be ruled without deceit as if it’s essential for the Jewish state’s survival. He wrote just before resigning:
“I have learned that the state of Israel cannot be ruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism. These are historical facts that cannot be altered. . . In the end, history will justify both the stratagems and deceit and the acts of adventurism. All I know is that I, Moshe Sharett, am not capable of them, and I am therefore unsuited to lead this country”
(Simha Flapan, p. 52-53).
In other word, Moshe Sharett is saying that the “Jewish state” is incapable of surviving without lying to its citizens and the rest of the world; in fact it has been national security for the “Jewish state” to do so. This form of carefully crafted deception and lies is known in Israel by its Hebrew name: The art of Hasbarah.
Hear that everyone?
White phosphorus wasn’t used as a weapon, it just happened to be deliberately dropped on civilian neighborhoods. And bullets were not aimed at anyone, all those dead civilians just happened to be get in the way of those bullets.
There are no limits to the lengths to which Zionist propagandists like Thom will go to spin the truth.
Thom then tells us there shouldn’t have been any kids in the house, even when the IDF was instructing those kids to take shelter in those buildings.
Why do you he even bother Thom? Do you realize that the more desperately you Zionist extremists deny the truth, the uglier it makes Israel look?
It was dropped where the Israelis wanted smoke to cover their movements and make it hard for Palestinian soldiers to shoot at them. The Palestinian soldiers were their targets, so if they had decided to all meet for a nice civilized battle outside of the civilian areas, there wouldn’t have been any need for smoke in the civilian areas.
What percentage of the civilian casualties were shot and how many killed by bombs dropped on Hamas munitions storage houses where the Palestinians chose to have civilians and weapons in the same place?
The IDF told the civilians that they were coming into the area after Hamas, and to leave. The only reason kids got killed is because their parents didn’t heed the warnings.
How does the fact that the quote is 50 years old, amount to any kind of rebuttal? Since when do quotes don’t have a used by date?
Nor does the fact that Sharett was referring to “our generation” imply that it is of no relevance today either. Israeli’s myths remain unchanged from 50 years ago, so it only serves to highlight Sharett’s observation.
And where is your evidence that he was forced to resign?
This quote has a “use by” date. “in this generation”.
In any case, random quote by a bitter politician that had just been forced out. Oooh.
You have a real knack for posting quotes that are by people who are irrelevant. Israel is a country. If has had a lot of politicians over the years, some of them said stupid things. Big deal. Like most anti-Semites, you try to attribute to all Jews the actions and words of individuals.
It’s almost a compliment, you assume that Jews are never wrong or in disagreement. That we are superhuman. Well, we are people and people sometimes make mistakes.
And now the reply buttons after people’s comments aren’t working right, posting at the end of the messages instead of as a reply. Lovely.
I cite my own postings because they are generally rather long and the material would dominate the comment section if I cut and paste.
Generally, I provide citations in my articles and blog entries.
Joachim isn’t pretending to do anything Thom,
He provides a link and if you’d bothered to read that link, you’d realize that he includes footnotes and references at the bottom of the page.
Why are you so afraid to debate the facts with him Thom and stop this juvenile debate about whether he lnks to himself and whether he’s pretending to link to another source?
Of course you are not going to bother to read his links. You don’t want to know what he’s talking about.
I think you are referring to some combination of the JNF and the ILA. The variation in percentages usually results from disparate treats of the surface area of water bodies. I know the ILA was directed to lease to non-Jews, but I am unware of the ILA approving any Israeli Palestinians to lease properties. Of course, non-Israeli Palestinians don’t have the option to lease.
Generally Aimee Smith is very careful in the information she provides, and I would certainly trust her far more than a masbir.
If I am not mistaken, most of the properties held by the JNF and the ILA belong to Palestinians that were ethnically cleansed by Zionist genocidaires over the last 62 years.
Here is an August 2007 Arutz Sheva article on leasing discrimination by the ILA: link to israelnationalnews.com
.
I have not been able to find evidence that the Kaadan’s were actually able to move into their home in 2008 in accord with the court ruling, but the appointment of Lavi in March 2008 to head the ILA ( link to haaretz.com
) indicates that the Israeli government is attempting to neutralize the pro-Kaadan ruling.
You’ll have to forgive Thom, Joachim, he’s a very a slow learner.
Jews only owned 7% of the land in Palestine as of 1948. There are record from that period that are unambiguous in this regard.
The JNF knew they would not be able to secure more that 50% of the land and that this would prevent Israel from becoming a Jewish majority, because the Palestinians were not prepared to sell. This map shows Palestine before and after Nakba.
link to palestineremembered.com
As of 1947, Jews in Palestine owned UNDER 7% of the Palestine’s lands, and after the 1948 war 80% of the Palestinian people were DISPOSSESSED of their homes, farms, and businesses. This map shows Jewish owned land as oh 1947, including a breakdown of land ownership.
link to palestineremembered.com
Ben Gurion and many other Zionsist were speaking openly about the transfer of Arabs to make way for the Jewish state. This is in spite of the fact that such a policy was expressly forbidden by the Baflour declaration and the UN declaration.
In speech to the Jewish Agency on June 12, 1948, Ben-Gurion stated:
“I am for compulsory transfer; I don’t see anything immoral in it.” For tactical reasons, he was against proposing it at the moment, but “we have to state the principle of compulsory transfer without insisting on its immediate implementation.” (Simha Flapan, p. 103)
“With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority …. There can be no stable and strong Jewish state so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60%.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 176 & Benny Morris p. 28)
Flat earthers like you Thom would have us believe that inspire of this being the desire of the founders of Israel, the outcome was a big happy accident. As you wonder why people consider you an extremist.
Later, Rabin admitted to the ethnic cleansing, referring to it as the EVICTION ACTION, and underlined the cruelty of the operation as mirrored in the reaction of his soldiers. He stated during an interview (which is still censored in Israeli publications to this day) with David Shipler from the New York Times on October 22, 1979:
“Great Suffering was inflicted upon the men taking part in the EVICTION ACTION. [They] included youth-movement graduates who had been inculcated with values such as international brotherhood and humaneness. The EVICTION ACTION went beyond the concepts they were used to. There were some fellows who refused to take part. . . Prolonged propaganda activities were required after the action . . . to explain why we were obliged to undertake such a harsh and cruel action.” (Simha Flapan, p. 101)
You are either incredibly mistaken or are lying. In 1922, all inhabitants of Palestine were known as Palestinians.
Zionists have concocted the myth that Palestinians were ordered by their leaders to abandon their homes. This was conclusively debunked based on Israeli declassified documents. According to the Israeli historian Benny Morris:
1. ‘In general, during the first months of the war until April 1948 the Palestinian leadership struggled, if not very manfully, against the exodus: “The AHC [Arab Higher Committee] decided …. to adopt measures to weaken the exodus by imposing restrictions, penalties, threats, propaganda in the press [and] on the radio …. [The AHC] tried to obtain the help of neighboring countries in this context ….. [The AHC] especially tried to prevent the flight of army-age young males,” according to IDF intelligence’. (Benny Morris, p. 60)
2. Whatever the reasoning and attitude of the Arab states’ leaders, I have found no contemporary evidence to show that either the leaders of the Arab states or the Mufti [Hajj Amin al-Husseini] ordered or directly encouraged the mass exodus during April [1948]. It may be worth noting that for decades the policy of the Palestinian Arab leaders had been to hold fast to the soil of Palestine and to resist the eviction and displacement of Arab communities’. (Benny Morris, p. 66)
3. ‘In Kafr Saba [early May 1948], the locals, under threat from Haganah attack, wanted to leave, but were ordered to stay by the ALA [Arab Liberation Army] garrison. According to Haganah sources, the ALA, with the population of Ramallah about to take flight, blocked all roads into the Triangle: “The Arab military leaders are trying to stem the flood of refugees and taking stern and ruthless measures against them.” Arab radio broadcast, picked up by the Haganah, conveyed orders from the ALA to all Arabs who had left their homes to “return within three days. The commander of Ramallah assembled the mukhtars [official leaders] from the area” and demanded they strengthen morale in the their villages. The local ALA commanders turned back trucks which were coming to take families out of Ramallah. …. Haganah intelligence on May 6 reported that “Radio Jerusalem in its Arabic broadcast (14:00 hours, 5 May) and Damascus [Radio] (19:45 hours, 5 May) announced in the name of the Supreme Headquarters: ‘Every Arab must defend his home and property …. Those who leave their places will be punished and their homes will be destroyed.’. The announcement was signed by [Fawzi al-]Qawukji.’ (Benny Morris, p. 68-69)
Farther proof of ethnic cleansing (as if more evidence is needed) comes from Glubb Pasha, the British officer of the Jordanian army during the 1948 war, was on the spot at the time and therefore was in a position to know what is going on. He said:
“The story which Jewish publicity at first persuaded the world to accept , that the [Palestinian] Arab refugees left voluntarily, is not true. Voluntary emigrants do not leave their homes with only the clothes they stand in. People who decided to leave house do not do so in such a hurry that they lose other members of their family — husband losing sight of his wife, or parents of their children. The fact is that the majority left in panic flight, to escape massacre. They were in fact helped on their way by the occasional massacres–not of very many at a time, but just enough to keep them running.” (Bitter Harvest, p. 95)
There WAS a genocide, in fact several. The best known was at Deri Yassin, ironically now the site of a Ho9locasut Museum in Israel. The majority of the land was therefore owned by the Palestinian who were driven from their land as per the plans the Zionists had in place for half a century.
The myth that Arabs fled the fighting to give the Arabs a clearer shot at the Jews is not supported by any evidence whatsoever.
Gotta love the revisionist Zionist math.
You’ve got your facts wrong as usual. I suggest you look at my links below.
The number of children killed was 389. Probably higher considering that total was taken when the death toll was at just over 1100. Today it’s at close to 1500. So once again, you are being totally dishonest Thom.
Let’s not forget that 50 percent of Gaza’s population are under 18. So just the fact that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza shows they have no regard for civilian casualties. Also don’t forget the IDF t shirts made up after Gaza showing soldiers targetting children and pregnant women./
Rubbish,
The number of children massacred was at least 389.
The UN had already concluded that 257 children weer killed in Gaza, when the total death toll was only 783.
link to channel4.com
Give it up, Thom. You’ve gotten your facts wrong again. First off, its the IDF who considers any Palestinian over the age of 15 as an adult. And even they admitted to killing over twice the number of children under the age of 15 that you cite. And they are known for wildly overestimating “terrorists” killed and underestimating civilians killed.
Israel’s armed forces admitted on Wednesday that 189 Palestinian children under the age of 15 were killed during the assault on the Gaza Strip.
Rubbish. Israeli Palestinians are 3rd class citizens in Israel and have many limitations, like who they can bring in to the country to marry, for a start.
There are Israel Arab citizens who have been prohibited from returning to their homes, and others who have had their lands confiscated. You really should stop spouting off like you know what you are talking about, Thom. Look up “Present Absentee” on Wikipedia.
And you have this backwards:
The Palestinians who were forced to leave and denied the right to return are not citizens exactly because Israel denied them their rights to citizenship by refusing to let them return. And the reason for that refusal is their ethnicity and religion does not match that of the preferred group in Israel. And thats racism.
Thatnks for setting Thom string tree. Poor Thom has a knack for getting caught in his own circular logic (or lack there of).
If West Germany had refused to allow Jewish refugees to return due to them being of the wrong race, wouldn’t you call this rascism?
Q: If West Germany had refused to allow Jewish refugees to return due to them being of the wrong race, wouldn’t you call this rascism?
Thom: I’m not sure.
Really Thom, that’s your answer.
Actually the truth lies somewhere between what Bernstein wrote and what Thom wrote. From the US State Department’s 2008 Human Rights Report on Israel.:( Before anyone goes off half-cocked again, assuming that Israel is singled out, the State Department issues these reports on all countries. )
From the same report:
An improvement, you finally found a real Ben Gurion quote. Of course, you have taken it out of context, and you are off by ten years.
“I saw in the Peel Plan [proposed by England] two positive things: the ideas of state and compulsory transfer. I support compulsory transfer. I don’t see in it anything immoral, but compulsory transfer can only be effected by England and not by the Jews… Not only is it inconceivable for us to carry it out, but it is also inconceivable for us to propose it. ”
As for the rest of the quote “we have to state the principle of compulsory transfer without insisting on its immediate implementation”. The only source that says he ever said that is Simha Flapan.
Your quote about “Eviction action” refers to the Israelis driving out the population of Lod rather than leave a hostile and armed populace at their backs while fighting for their lives against the Arab armies that were attacking them.
Deir Yassin was exaggerated. In all 107 people killed. The Arab attempts to lie about it, saying that there were rapes and such backfired. They hoped it would make the local Arabs fight and encourage the Arab armies, instead the local Arabs fled. So to the extent there was ethnic cleansing, thank Hazam Nusseibeh for helping out the expulsions.
“Hazam Nusseibeh, the news editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service at the time, gave an interview to the BBC in 1998. He spoke about a discussion he had with Hussayn Khalidi, the deputy chairman of the Higher Arab Executive in Jerusalem, shortly after the killings: “I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story. He said, ‘We must make the most of this.’ So he wrote a press release, stating that at Deir Yassin, children were murdered, pregnant women were raped, all sorts of atrocities.”[77] Gelber writes that Khalidi told journalists on April 11 that the village’s dead included 25 pregnant women, 52 mothers of babies, and 60 girls.[72]
“This was our biggest mistake,” said Nusseibeh. “We did not realize how our people would react. As soon as they heard that women had been raped at Deir Yassin, Palestinians fled in terror. They ran away from all our villages.”[77][79] He told Larry Collins in 1968: “We committed a fatal error, and set the stage for the refugee problem.”[80] Mohammed Radwan, one of the villagers who fought the attackers, said: “There were no rapes. It’s all lies. There were no pregnant women who were slit open. It was propaganda that … Arabs put out so Arab armies would invade,” he said. “They ended up expelling people from all of Palestine on the rumor of Deir Yassin.”[71]” -Wikipedia Deir Yassin entry.
About 1922 people in the region all being called Palestinians, in 2009, the people in the North East of the USA are called “New Englanders”. That doesn’t mean they think of themselves as a separate country.
Some Arabs in the area did want to have a separate nation, but others considered themselves part of Syria.
What Len Martin wrote. Bernstein never existed. Actually, in a later edition of the book the author is “Jack Bernstein as told to Len Martin”.
So, an anti-Semitic pamphlet written by a white-power whackjob who says he heard it from a guy who never existed. That is what passes for “evidence” around here. No wonder this place has been classified as a hate site.
OK, apparently someone is deleting my posts. I said it would depend on the motives and definitions of racism. As in, whether it is racism to discriminate on the basis of what you think is race, but isn’t actually racial.
You anti-Semites really are outrageous, you aren’t content to lie and misquote people who are long dead or absent, you have the gall to lie about what people who are here to refute you said.
OK, apparently someone is deleting my posts. I said it would depend on the motives and definitions of racism. As in, whether it is racism to discriminate on the basis of what you think is race, but isn’t actually racial.
You anti-Semites really are outrageous, you aren’t content to lie and misquote people who are long dead or absent, you have the gall to lie about what people who are here to refute you said.
Ben Gurion was quite clear that Israel would initially agree to the UN partition and the conditions of Israel’s creation, but that Israel would then ignore these. In addition to that Ben Gurion quote, there are countless others from Zionists openly advocating the forceful removal of Palestinians.
Deir Yassin was the massacre of 240 villagers.
There are counttless quotes from obseverbvs, including Isrelis who gave first hand accounts of what they witnessed from the masacre.
Israeli Cabinet Minister, Aharon Cizling in 1948, after the savagery of the Deir Yassin massacre of 240 villagers became known. He said: “Now we too have behaved like Nazis and my whole being is shaken.” (Tom Segev – “The First Israelis”)
When the future Prime Minister Menachem Begin had the Arab village of Deir Yassin attacked on April 9 and many of its inhabitants killed (certainly including children and women) in order to terrorize and horrify the people, this was covered in the world press. Begin defended his deed with a typical Israeli bonmot: “The massacre of Deir Yassin not only had its justification – without the ‘victory’ of Deir Yassin there had never been a State of Israel.” (6) Four years later, the same Begin attempted to kill the German chancellor Adenauer (7) and in 1978 he received the Nobel Peace Prize.
“We eliminated every Arab that came our way.”
–Ben Zion Cohen, an Irgun commander
“I saw the horrors that the fighters had created. I saw bodies of women and children, who were murdered in their houses in cold blood by gunfire, with no signs of battle and not as the result of blowing up the houses. I have seen a great deal of war, but I never saw a sight like Deir Yassin.”
–Eliahu Arbel, Operations Officer in the Jewish Haganah
“The attackers chose to kill anybody they found alive as though every living thing in the village was the enemy and they could only think ‘kill them all.’…It was a lovely spring day, the almond trees were in bloom, the flowers were out and everywhere there was the stench of the dead, the thick smell of blood, and the terrible odor of the corpses burning in the quarry.”
–Yeshurun Shiff, assistant to David Shaltiel, commander of Jewish Haganah forces in Jerusalem
“… A total of more than 200 dead, men, women, and children…One was a woman who must have been eight months pregnant, hit in the stomach, with powder burns on her dress indicating she’d been shot point-blank.”
–Jacques de Reynier, Representative of the International Red Cross
“In the houses there were dead, in all about a hundred men, women and children. It was terrible. It was clear that the attackers had gone from house to house and shot the people at close range. I was a doctor in the German army for 5 years in World War I but I had not seen such a horrifying spectacle.”
–Dr. Alfred Engel, Red Cross worker
“What we saw were women, young children, and old men. What shocked us was at least two or three cases of old men dressed in women’s clothes. My conclusion was that what happened in the village so terrorized these old men that they knew being old men would not save them. They hoped that if they were seen as old women that would save them.”
–Yair Tsaban, was one of several youths tasked with burying the dead at Deir Yessin
Menachem Begin, one of the commanders overseeing the slaughter and who would one day become one of Israel’s Prime Ministers later remarked gloatingly that–
“The Arabs throughout the country were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives and this mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.”