MJ Rosenberg responds to an earlier post about Jeffrey Goldberg's suggestion that anti-Zionists aren't Jews:
So anti-Zionists aren't Jews. That is saying that the Bundists who fought -- alongside the Zionists -- in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising aren't Jews.
But it goes further.
Jews invoke the Six Million. In that context, they are all Jews whose memories can be used to advance the agenda that the Goldbergs/Goldfarbs choose to advance. But, using the Goldberg standard, how many were Jews only because they had Jewish parents, i.e. the Communists, Socialists, anti-Zionist Orthodox, converts to Christianity, atheists, etc.
From what I know of European Jewry, a million or two of the 6,000,000 were in those categories. That means that using the Goldberg standard, the Six Million figure must be reduced. I ban him from ever using that figure again. He is disqualified from using it.
But here's the thing. These guys welcome everybody as Jews once they are dead. It's only dissenting LIVING Jews they excommunicate.
Clever retort.
I prefer my analysis distinguishing between the range of what behavior and thinking adds up to “fully Jewish” rather than just the simplistic reaction to the black/white “you are not a Jew, you are assimilated” or “you are not a humanist, you are a Zionist”.
Association (expressed in loyalty and reasoned reform) AND goodness (expressed to one’s own and to others) is what makes a person a full Jew.
Is that also what makes a “full” human?
I am uncomfortable with your somewhat murky categories of “loyalty” and “reasoned reform.” Is a friend who takes his drunk buddy’s keys away from him loyal? Is a wife who has a mentally ill husband committed to a psychiatric institution loyal? I would say so, but others would disagree, particularly if the analogy is applied to Israel. Is reasoned reform something that a tiny minority can scream for, or is it something that only self-elected “Jewish leaders” may deign to occasionally engage in? We may even agree on this, but your definition doesn’t help.
Because there are so many kinds of Jews on the earth, I think the only real definition of “who is a Jew” is self-identification, together with the halachic requirements of a Jewish mother or conversion. Once you’re a Jew, you get a certificate authorizing you to argue with both G-d and the rest of the Jewish community.
“Goodness?” You’re setting your standard for being Jewish as goodness when you’ve openly justified Operation Cast Lead and characterize the theft of water right out from under the West Bank and Golan Heights during a drought to fill Israeli swimming pools and water Israeli lawns, and you say that you consider goodness to be part of your standard?
So… you’re not a Jew, Witty? Sorry, my mistake, I guess.
A lot of the Zionist founders of Israel wouldn’t be Jews either, by the standards of the Orthodox establishment.
Chaos4700,
The Golan Has Been Jewish for Centuries . These Arab colonialists have stolen lands from Kurds, Berbers, Copts, Babylonians, Chaldeans and they want to steal Jewish lands as well. The Golan was part of ancient and modern Israel for centuries, while it was under Syrian occupation for a mere 21 years!! The archaeology of the Golan is proof that the Golan is Jewish. I personally helped dig up a Talmudic era synagogue in Katzrin which is now has a visitor centre. The only Arab land is (Saudi) Arabia. The Arabs can go back there!!
You may be thinking of the Amorites, who lost control of it in biblical times, but modern Israel has only held the Golan since 1967, and by modern standards its settlements are in violation of international law. I really don’t give a damn about 5000 year old wars. But speaking of history, do you know how many empires once claimed the Golan? Alexander the Great, the Romans, the Greeks, the Turks. Jews will have to get in line behind a number of civilizations if they’re going to base land claims on ancient wars. The same goes for Jerusalem and the rest of Israel.
Chaos4700, a must read.
link to xrl.us
Chaos4700, doesn’t like to talk about Arab aparthied.
link to kurdmedia.com
Campaign for the international recognition of human rights of half a million Kurds “Buried Alive” in Syria
10/13/08
Introduction
Jeffrey Goldberg is not a Jew, he is a prison guard.