Maybe we should mourn the late great peace process, one of the amazing shams of history. From the Wall Street Journal’s Jay Solomon: "Netanyahu offers no advance in peace talks." Talk about tail between their legs:
"We’re going to continue what we’re doing: which is to try and get negotiations going," said a senior U.S. official briefed on Mr. Netanyahu’s visit. "I’m sure the president will make this clear to the prime minister tonight."
And here is Ethan Bronner of the Times offering this eulogy from Martin Indyk:
“At the end of the day, I fear that the United States, Israel and the Arabs will fall short of meeting Abu Mazen’s requirements for staying on,” he said. “More than likely, we are entering a new era.”
What’s that new era? Akiva Eldar in Haaretz:
The president surely knows what every traveler in the settlers’ land knows – bulldozers are breaking ground for the new neighborhood in Beit Arye, apartment sales have started in Ariel’s "university neighborhood" and construction on a new synagogue is to begin shortly in Eli.
…
[Netanyahu] has turned talking about solving the conflict into an inseparable part of managing the conflict….
When Netanyahu asks what the president intends to do to save Israel from the nuclear demon, Obama will likely answer: What do you intend to do to save Israel from the binational demon? The Americans understand that if Netanyahu doesn’t offer Abbas concrete actions instead of hollow words, the entire Palestinian leadership will go home with him and reiterate the demand made by Martin Luther King Jr., Obama’s hero: one man, one vote.
Related posts:
- Zellnik: make 2 democratic states (and then dream about one state)
- Yeah, and if we could only get rid of the black vote, John McCain would be president
- Obama beware, Netanyahu has a fever dream of a second Holocaust
- My ‘I-have-a-dream’ post
- Richard Engel says Arab states care more about Iran than Palestinian freedom
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Eldar has a lot more faith in Obama than I do.
If there’s one thing that’s become clear about the Obama presidency, particularly when it comes to foreign relationships, it’s an absolute blindness to any thought that doesn’t come out of the same box, any route that doesn’t follow the same long-worn rut.
Look at the statement issued by the WH after the obligatory meeting with BibiYahoo:
“Security” is code for “Letting Israel do as it pleases, as usual.”
The Obama administration will continue to keep beating that same dead horse of the “peace process” while the rest of the world tries to move away from the smell of it rotting on the gound.
Aawg for fuck’s sakes how many times does Obama have to say over and over and over again: “America’s bonds with our Israeli ally are unbreakable”. ?!! (Note the use of the plural)
How embarrassing robotic of him.
Or are the Israelis so fucking insecure about us even though we’ve literally given them the shirts off our backs, our soldiers in Iraq twice, billions and more trillions etc. etc. – that they need their (bloody) hand held 24/7?
In other words, is Obama babying the Israelis? Or is he a simpleton telling everyone the same story everywhere he goes?…..”America’s BONDS with our Israeli blah blah blah….
Another word for “bonds” is shackles, chains.
BONDAGE!
bondage [ˈbɒndɪdʒ]
n
1. slavery or serfdom; servitude.
2. (Historical Terms) Also called villeinage (in medieval Europe) the condition and status of unfree peasants who provided labour and other services for their lord in return for holdings of land.
3. (Psychiatry) a sexual practice in which one partner is physically bound.
Yes, we have entered a new era regarding the 2SS.
Cracked open by the Lebanon ‘06 war. Blasted into being by the assault on Gaza in ‘06.
And now, two years down the line of time and it’s clear to discerning minds that the end of the rule of Zionism in the middle east is surely upon us.
But not without the bloodbath that is surely coming along with it.
It’s gonna get real ugly before the roses are back.
J Street.
Two states, good neighbors to good neighbors, with full equal rights for all in each.
The single-state involves coercion to realize, and with the large number of very zealous on both sides that are unwilling to compromise, WILL result in unnecessary bloodshed.
The only question is whether it will happen in an orderly or disorderly manner. If disorderly, there will be civilian suffering (unnecessary), and the more powerful militarily will acquire more territory in any war, whether legal or not.
Good neighbor, Witty? Israel? How many times have they stolen Palestine’s mail, let their dog crap on the lawn and broke into the tool shed? Good neighbor? Seriously?
Do yourself a favor and avoid the metaphors, Witty. They are not your strong suit.
I am still chortling over that metaphor, actually. In the neighborhood where I grew up — sadly, almost exclusively white — there was one house that had a family which can, if you’ll allow me to be self-hating, be characterized readily as “white trash.” Besides selling drugs out of the house (there’s your ziocaine metaphor in full force, Mooser) they let their dogs run free on occasions (dobermans and pit bulls, as it happens) and caused all manner of problems for their immediate neighbors — up to and including building a fence and a concrete slab into the neighboring lot, and then trying to claim the new property line was “grandfathered in.” (As it happens, it wasn’t). My grandmother — also living in the neighborhood — has reason to think the hole (from a pellet… or bullet…) in her front window maybe came from them when she raised her voice about something they were doing.
I think we can all see who I’m implying represents Israel in this equation. As it happens, my parents lived across the street and my mom was cautiously friends with the mother of that family, and pretty much only to stay on their good side so that we didn’t end up with any trouble. I suspect my family, in this metaphor, is Europe.
Yeah Chaos, there’s white trash; plenty of other colors of trash too–we just can’t mention them in this land that is still, although declining rapidly, majority white.
Any irony there? Or is irony verboten too by PC?
“there’s your ziocaine metaphor in full force, Mooser”
Metaphor, my kosher palmate antlers! Hook a Zionist up to a brain-scan thingy, an EKG machine, and blood-chemistry monitor and you will see how much of a metaphor it is! Pay special attention to the vagus nerve.
To be fair, Citizen, and yes in the interests of political correctness, I only feel safe using the term “white trash” because I am, myself, white. It’s sort of like how African Americans can use the n-word and not get in the same sort of trouble.
Obama sat for 20 years in that pew listening to his preacher speak about white devils, and I’m sure the Jews were included too. What’s his answer? Well, some might say
Obamacare’s main function in to transfer wealth and health from the whites, especially the old whites, to the new emerging USA nation of non-whites. The mask is the whites in the banking, financial services, insurance industries for example, all whom he needs to make the basic transfer for the new emerging USA. He’s doing his best for the new era. Playing footsy with Israel is part of the price of practical politics he learned in Chicago. He’s slightly underestimated the obviousness of his path, for example, Acorn. Yeah, I know, I’m a white bigot. Where are we on the immigration issue?
Citizen, is somebody putting something in your tea? You might try switching to coffee.
“Yeah, I know, I’m a white bigot”
Thank you, it’s about time you made it plain. And you know what’s even funnier? Right about now, you might be the anti-Zionists best hope!
Ain’t that a kick in the pants, Phil? Run faster, Phil, work harder, they’re gaining on us!
Right, Mooser, we all know you don’t a single bigot antler; OK, I will go eat my white bread plastered with mayo even though I eat Jewish rye and don’t eat mayo.
Citizen? Do yourself a favor and find out the real story about both Reverend Wright and Acorn. Yes, there is racism in the African American community (in whose community isn’t there any, really?) but from what I’ve read up and learned, what you’re playing on is a big canard. And honestly, worse than that, it’s a bit of a side track. We’ve already got Witty distracting us from the core issue. (And maybe though I should shoulder blame for setting up a metaphor I knew was going to be controversial)
Chaos, I know all about Wright and Acorn. I lived in Chicago for 30 years, including in
poor black and Mexican areas, and including around the U of C. What do you know?
“Chaos, I know all about Wright and Acorn.”
Maybe, maybe not. Where I grew up most of the whites hated the local NAACP head–their favorite claim was “she’s more racist than they we are”. Which I very much doubt.
Anyway, Wright was mainly guilty of saying a bunch of far left things about US foreign policy and also Israel. That’s one of the main reasons Obama distanced himself from him.
Witty, Mister Rogers is dead; besides he wasn’t a Zionist to my knowledge.
Take the points seriously.
The two-state approach is the only one possible of realizing anything resembling justice and peace, without following horrendous bloodshed and institutionalized persecution.
My proposals, and J Street’s, are different than the current administrations. They require convincing Israelis that their interests lie in peace, more than in dominance. But, that requirement is necessary in ANY of the options.
I’m taking it at least as seriously as you and Netanahu.
It’s not a requirement, Witty. Why do you assume the Israelis must be kowtowed and catered to? They’re the biggest obstruction to peace; if they want to persist in that role, Witty, then they’ll have to live with the consequences. Although of course, that would require you to actually hold Israelis responsible for their own choices or actions, something you seem to only reserve for “lesser people.”
Persuasion is a requirement if you seek a solution that does come about through war.
English motherf*****, do you speak it?
Richard speaks “passive voice”.
It’s a language nearly impossible to penetrate, and incapable of attributing responsibility for actions to Israel or Zionism.
Persuasion is a requirement if you seek a solution that does come about through war.
How come it’s a war when you need to justify Israel slaughtering civilians, and then suddenly its not a war when you need Israel to be “the only consistent peacemakers” in the conflict? Aren’t you going to get carpal tunnel, changing your hat so often?
Witty – a fascist – like Avishai, just want to keep their exclusive Jewish country club. They want to maintain their Jewish majority (which only exists because Jews kicked out the Arab majority).
We should do that here in the States too! Wait, Jews like Witty are for open immigration here. Why?
From The Forward:
“Open Borders Threaten Jewish Clout”
http://www.forward.com/articles/785/
And while you’re at it, Cliff, read this one:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/opinion/09horwitz.html
“The two-state approach is the only one possible of realizing anything resembling justice and peace, without following horrendous bloodshed and institutionalized persecution”
Which is Witty’s oleaginous way of saying that a one-state solution will leave a lot of Israelis liable for prosecution, for war crimes, and all sorts of assaults and peculations.
Yup, that is a problem. Perhaps an amnesty will be given to the Israelis, and all those people will be left alone to make a paradise out of the new one-state.
How about amnesty for the Palestinians? or are you convinced they haven’t broken any laws?
These evil Israelis will not allow a 1 state solution.
Yeah, we know, yonira, a land without people for a people without land.
yonira, at the risk of taking your remark seriously, the fact is that when people make peace, they release each others prisoners. Amnesty is given to most participants in the conflict. The bloodlust for retribution is an obstacle to peace and must be foregone, even if some might believe that justice has not been served.
So is that the plan for the 1 state solution? just to jail all Israelis who will raise a stink about the taking of their Jewish state?
Well, that’s pretty much what it’s taken to get rid of Nazism, hasn’t it?
I am pleased that Yonira obviously supports Palestinian application to the world criminal court. It would be a good clearing of the air to have the dockets in the Hague filled so full of Jewish and Palestinian faces. Together at last as true equals. The commitment that the Palestinians have shown for ending terror on their part – to allow themselves to be held accountable for it under international law is a commendable step forwards in the peace process.
I am sure that Yonira, obviously a firm supporter of human rights, dignity, and equality, fully supports Israel following suit.
Chaos, I know its easy for you to sit in your dorm room and be a proponent for the Palestinians people and everything which I admire(especially if you are doing it all to try to score a fine hippie chick.)
Do you think your comparison of Nazism and Zionism or advocating a one state solution w/ all of the Jews jailed for war crimes is productive? Will it bring any sort of resolution any closer?
Even the idea of a one state solution will only bring the Israelis farther away from the table, they’ll feel more threatened, and in turn do more stupid shit. Also you are giving more false hope to the Palestinian people, who are the real victims here. It’s easy to be an advocate of a utopian solution when you have no stake in the matter, watching it all unfold on the blogosphere thousands of miles away, but it’ll take another 1000 years for anything like that to happen.
Each generation that is under occupation the opportunity for reconciliation is farther and farther away. The two people simply couldn’t live together in a one state solution, a two state solution would allow there to be some sort of reconciliation, with the end game being one state, but there needs to be a bridge between the two people.
Chaos, I know its easy for you to sit in your dorm room
Where do YOU live, Yonira? In Israel? Have you ever spent more than a month there?
The two people simply couldn’t live together in a one state solution, a two state solution would allow there to be some sort of reconciliation
You should read “Us and Them: The Science of Identity” by David Berreby. Its not specific to the I/P conflict at all, but is a good primer on the concepts of “us” and “them” and how to break through them. Separation and perceptions of inequality are what make reconciliations impossible. There is nothin intrinsically incompatible about Palestinians and Jews. Its the inequality and separation that has created the problem.
potsherd,
thank you for a direct answer and taking my question seriously. I guess the trading of prisoners and the amnesty thing is common sense to me, but there are many on this blog who believe that all of these Israeli war criminals should be prosecuted after the creation of this 1 state utopia.
What was your attitudes toward Nuremberg, out of curiosity, yonira? Or better yet, what about that octogenarian Polish immigrant who was deported and put on trial again for WW2 war crimes?
How are you feelings toward amnesty now?
you can’t compare the two, I know, I know, you believe the Holocaust and slaughter of 12 million is a myth and I can’t argue w/ someones beliefs. But I do believe that there were upwards of 12 million ppl killed so I have trouble not dismissing any similar argument automatically..
Nuremburg tried 22 of the worst Nazi offenders, you are advocating jailing all Israelis? I think there is a bit of a difference..
you can’t compare the two, I know, I know, you believe the Holocaust and slaughter of 12 million is a myth and I can’t argue w/ someones beliefs.
Do you know what they say when one makes assumptions?
When you make an assumption, you make an ass out of yourself.
Did Nomi have her world of warcraft account canceled?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PmyYZqoGIw
Talk about spazzing out.
It wasn’t an assumption, I am confident that Chaos does believe in the Holocaust, he just has a habit of false accusations against myself and Witty, so I thought I’d stoop down to his level, see if anyone bites.
So you went through all that trouble to prove you’re an idiot? It really wasn’t necessary, Yonira. We already knew that beyond the shadow of a doubt.
My own feelings are that amnesty for its war criminals are a price Israel will earn for ceasing its opposition to the binational state (or the other version, I’m not wedded to either.) And of course Israel understands this quite well, which is why BibiYahoo went into hysterical overdrive to quash the Goldstone Report.
yonira, you need to work on your irony skills
and probably my ironing skills also
First, there was never a “two state solution,” there was a one dominant all-powerful and murderous one state (Israel), and divided worthless bantustans with no self-defense prospects with a dead end future – that was the plan, if there was any. The only way to achieve the previous (which is nothing but a copy of the US and its indigenous population), is to exterminate most of the Palestinians just like the indigenous population in the USA territory was almost brought to extinction.
Obama and Akiva’s reference to him is supposed to appeal to his worthless advertised million dollar image, not reality in regard to Obama’s accepting a one state solution. Obama will do nothing to facilitate a one state solution.
Obama will do nothing to actually faciliate a two-state solution, either. He will only pay lip service to this idea, while drawing out the endless process of making a Palestinian state impossible.
PLO death penalty to any Arab who sells land to Jews.
And stupid left wing Jews on here want a 1 state solution to destroy Israel with these people.
http://www.jrtelegraph.com/2009/04/death-penalty-for-selling-land-to-jews.html
DON’T FEED THE TROLL
v, your facts are laughable.
Between 48 and 67 what stopped the Arabs from making a 2 state solution.
Why didn’t Arafat want a 2 state solution in 1964 when he made his racist charter?
Oh I know, it was the Jews who lived on the West Bank.
Wait, there was no Jews who lived on the West Bank. The Arabs kicked them out in 48.
So we cant use that excuse.
It was the bantustans that Israel planned to create on the West Bank to divide the lands in 64.
Oh Dam! i cant use that lie, Israel didn’t control the West Bank then.
“Between 48 and 67 what stopped the Arabs from making a 2 state solution.”
Gangs liek the Irgun and the Stern who were carrying out terrosit attacks. Then of coure, there was Ben Gurion, who vowed not to accept the partition.
Then there was the 750,000 Palestinians that Israel made homeless by driving off their land.
V,
http://www.likud.nl/extr450.html
Fatah TV broadcasts daily call for ethnic cleansing of Jews
When will v protest the genocidal aims of the Arabs?
http://www.likud.nl/extr475.html
Hamas: Jews has to be exterminated
Who will stop the enormous funding of Israeli’s genocide by the USA?
How long can v be silent?
Maybe cause deep down v is another racist who loves when Arabs murder Israeli civilians.
http://www.likud.nl/extr453.html
Palestinian TV:
‘Killing of all the Jews will not be satisfactory’
Nomi998,
You remind me of one fo those freaks who attends a Star Trek convention and walks out into the public, replete with tights and extended ears and can’t figure why everyone is laughing at him.
Hey! I’ll have you know that some of us freaks know exactly why people are laughing at us. :)
Seriously though. Don’t compare Star Trek fans to Zionist psychopaths. Please.
Even if so, one person, one vote, one time.
Those who pretend the Arabs will treat Jews as equals know very well this is not sustainable. The Jews know it too. There is no path to a one-state “Solution”. There might not be a path to a two-state “Solution”.
The problem Abbas has is not smatterings of construction that will, in any case, end in 6 months. The problems Abbas has is that he does not control Gaza, cannot make a deal as the Arab representative, is not the Arab leader of Palestine, and is aging.
Netanyahu is for starting negotiations now, and Abbas is demanding preconditions. Who is the obstacle?
Wait a minute AreaMan, wait a minute – I am having a hard time reading the monitor, it is this pile of Palestinian bodies that is obscuring my vision…
“Netanyahu is for starting negotiations now, and Abbas is demanding preconditions. Who is the obstacle?”
Oh, that’s easy. Netanyahu. He has never been interested in a peaceful solution.
Wow, all of a sudden one-state is the new black. Even people who despise the idea of it are saying it’s on track to become the only option.
Thats only because of Abbas saying he will give up.
And Abbas saying that he will give up is due largely to Netanyahu. (which I consider accurate).
The two-state solution is only dead when the populations of the West Bank and Israel each prefer a civil state to a national (which doesn’t exist currently and is hence an imposition), and/or when the proportion of population that are minorities are in the range of 35%.
Otherwise a single democratic state (that is actually democratic), results in Jewish purchase and development in the West Bank to the point that most of the West Bank is Judaized, like East Jerusalem is.
Its not a winning strategy, not a surviving strategy for Palestinians. It is Netanyahu’s dream in fact. He knows how to win that last move in the game.
Witty? It might surprise you to learn that Jews don’t actually control the entire world’s wealth. You honestly think Israel could just buy their way to an Eretz Israel? Now who’s the one who hasn’t read their history — that’s not what happened in the 1940’s.
I don’t know if you’ve read the papers, but Israel is not in recession as the US is. There is a LOT of wealth there, looking for real estate to buy.
In a democratic society, there can not be artificial ethnic screens to locations of residence, or property.
Or, did you miss that part?
“There is a LOT of wealth there, looking for real estate to buy.”
And you know this from your extenisive trips to theregion I take it Witty? Israel is not in recession, becasue Israel has an artificial economy the relies heavily on foreing aid and foreign donations.
Maybe it’s true that in a democratic society, there are no artificial ethnic screens to locations of residence, or property, but as we’ve already established, Israel is an aaprtheid state, not a democratic society.
Did you miss that part Witty, or just hoe that no one would notice?
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