Lots o' Haiti hasbara. O, where to begin?
--"Very interesting piece on ABC News the other night. Diane Sawyer and their medical correspondent did an extended and unflattering comparison between the activities of the Israeli medical team in Haiti and the lack of same by the U.S. military," writes Mike Desch. "Of course, it is great that the IDF responded to this disaster but the piece had a real feel of p.r. to it as well. Israel’s Hasbara crew understands that they have a huge p.r. problem post-Gaza and so they are always on the lookout for opportunities to present Israel in a more favorable light."
--Cynical? Here's an Israeli doctor making the same analysis:
"The extreme right wing in Israel is using the Haiti operation to reframe the fallout from the Goldstone report in the eyes of the world," Dr Yoel Donchin, an Israeli anesthesiologist and a veteran of Israeli rescue operations told The Media Line. "They know the Haitians are not part of the agenda and this is just for propaganda. But if it's good for Israel they don't care."
"You can't save everyone, and anyone who has studied mass casualty situations knows that the first thing you have to do is not rush in but to send a small team to evaluate what is the best way to help in the long run," he said. "So the fact that Israel wants to race to be the first to be there means nothing in the big picture, because Israel is usually the first to arrive but also the first to leave."
"If, for example, Israel were to bring water purification systems and chemical toilets it would be much more helpful," Dr Donchin said. "But their logic is that then it wouldn't get on the news."
Richard Silverstein has a translation of Dr Donchin's op-ed on this theme in Yediot here.
--And today I received the following email: "HOW MANY NEWS REPORTS HAVE YOU SEEN ABOUT THIS??????? Watch this news video from Haiti. It'll make you proud to be an Israeli and a Jew." Well I'm not an Israeli, but the link is to a CNN report by medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen about an Israeli field hospital in Haiti that is doing work other harum-scarum clinics are not. "I'm just amazed, I'm amazed by what is here... It's just amazing," says Cohen (and yes I wonder if she's pro-Israel).
--The other night on Hardball, Andrea Mitchell twice referred to Israel as providing important aid to Haiti, in her list of countries helping out. (I found it disturbing. I thought, She's Jewish and powerful, why is she thumping the hasbara).
“If, for example, Israel were to bring water purification systems and chemical toilets it would be much more helpful,” Dr Donchin said. “But their logic is that then it wouldn’t get on the news.”
Which is of course the crux of the issue.
Its a very good thing that Israel sent teams to help. They deserve credit for that.
A more pressing analysis was raised by Phil earlier. Why does Israel dedicate millions to conspicuous Haiti relief, and not similar commitment to Palestine (West Bank and Gaza)?
One element of the answer to that question lies with Israel, that Israelis are not as motivated to help Palestinians that condemn them – often for living where they live, and that there is a political struggle in the region, and certainly that many in Israel do crave annexation of large parts of the West Bank if not all of it.
And, another element lies with Palestine, of their relative willingness to accept, to invite aid from Israel. Some aid givers just help. Others demand recognition or more.
What do you think is a/the real answer to that question? Does Palestine want Israel’s help? (West Bank/Gaza). Do dissenters want Israeli to help? (Many here and prominent dissenters have adamently refused, condemned any Israeli desire to help, that isn’t accompanied by militant political stance).
What do you think is really desired?
[offensive language removed by webmaster]
Yea, technically that’s a truthful statement. It just misses the [ONLY] moral/relevant/logical point. It’s occupation and colonization. It’s not an equal relationship. Israel controls the West Bank and Gaza in any meaningful sense. Israel is blockading Gaza.
Did you not read the thread earlier where Dusval or whoever-the-fuck was threatening the PA over the Goldstone Report?
Have you read Sara Roy’s The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development?
Excerpt:
Everything you say is a lie or based on a lie. Furthermore, the point of the article has been stated, Dick. Why don’t you address Donchin’s factual account and then his analysis?
Whoops, I forgot – you’re full of shit.
Richard,
I recommend you email mondoweiss@gmail.com There is no need for you to be called a Nazi. I’ve talked to Adam about this before and he agreed there is no need for it on any blog.
It didn’t take Cliff long for him to start his old tricks again. If Adam and Phil really care about this cause they’ll understand that its not productive, it may get the Jew haters on here excited and make them feel good, but anyone else w/ a clue knows it doesn’t help anyone.
I recall you (in one of your schizo fits) saying you ‘understood’ what my argument was to Phil and annie.
And by ‘anyone else’ you mean the regulars here? You’re as much a troll as Witty, Julian, Baruch Rosen, et. al.
And predictably, you’re not commenting on Dick’s predictable analysis. Big surprise!
Oh and thanks for linking the MondoWeiss email to Witty – Phil’s acquaintance IRL. I’m sure he didn’t know it already.
You didn’t call anyone a Nazi in that argument Cliff. The Nazi thing is irresponsible. Its sickening. Calling a Jew(or anyone else) a Nazi because he doesn’t agree with you is so childish.
You just need to grow up man. That’s all.
So anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a troll? Is this how you live your RL? Its not going to get you very far in life Cliff.
Yonira, you better have a little chat with Baron Munchrosen, who is calling us (and I quote): “left-wing facists” at this very moment. If I’m not mistaken, he’s calling us “Nazis”, too, and “anti-Semitic whackjobs”
And if I were you, yosie (hopefully the Evil Eye didn’t hear that, I haven’t got the right foundation garments) I’d get used to it. If Israel is going to kill people, for whatever reason, people are going to call it lots of names, and disparage Judaism, which, of course, Israel is based on. Right?
Assholes, this is the stage you wanted to play on, to have your own country. Well now you got it, but you don’t like what comes with it.
Well, there were plenty (a vast majority) of Jews who could have told the Zionists this, at the time, but nobody could make them listen to Jews, when they could ride into Palestine on Allenby’s coattails.
Cliff i think yonira prefer you call Witty and her/him ZioNazi instead of Nazi, its more accurate. Thanks
Don’t forget the part where yonira called me “girlfriend” after I revealed I was gay and joked around with OJ about how calling me a “faggot” would just feed my “victim’s complex.”
Myself? I favor Zionazi as a term too. If the shoe fits…
yonira,
If I was arguing in real life, daily, with people who support racism, ethno-religious exceptionalism/supremacy, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, collective punishment, imperialism, occupation, and most importantly colonization – then yes, I would not get very far in life.
I would be a Palestinian.
And every day I would have to deal with such people. These people stole my land and are continuing in their attempt to erase me and my people every single day.
I’m not Palestinian though. I’m living a cushy life. And I will get far because I’m not a Palestinian.
If I’m rebuked online by some jerk-off Zionist, for calling another Zionist, a ‘Nazi’ – then I say, I have it infinitely better than the Palestinians who protest the colonization of their land and their society.
In Palestine, you could die for arguing w/ a Zionist.
Don’t lecture me about civility or etiquette. You are a two-faced schizo and a hypocrite, yonira.
Could Nazis be normal everyday people? Of course. They could be intellectuals. People who worked towards advancing propaganda for example.
And that is the context in which I call Dick Witty as Nazi. He is a pathological liar and Israeli propagandist.
If you were honest at all, you’d recognize that the guy never makes substantiated arguments and has historical amnesia whenever it is convenient to do so.
You also don’t chastise the OBVIOUS trolls on this blog who spam articles from Zionist websites. We’ve had countless trolls use that exact same tactic. When the Gaza massacre happened, tons of them came to this blog.
But as I said, you’re a partisan hack and hypocrite.
Chaos4700 You know Nazi were homophobic as well, so what do you expect from their brothers in struggle the ZioNazis?
Aparisian,
I appreciate your comments, but I do wish you’d ease up on the ZioNazi stuff. To the extent that it may have some value (although I personally don’t think it does) as a way of shocking people into recognising what is really going in I/P, you lose even that when you use the term as a matter of course.
Thanks Shmuel.
I understand what you say but i personally believe that Zionism has some similarities with Nazism. By using the ZioNazi term, i am alerting people about the danger of such colonial movement. You know Shmuel, it was usually a taboo in my entourage to defend Pals and say what i think but after the Lebanese war, the taboos fall down and i want to think freely. In my entourage some Jewish friends took distant and others support my position.
Mooser: If Israel is going to kill people, for whatever reason, people are going to call it lots of names, and disparage Judaism, which, of course, Israel is based on. Right?
Assholes, this is the stage you wanted to play on, to have your own country. Well now you got it, but you don’t like what comes with it.
Judaism managed to survive very well when the focus was Judaism. Now that the focus is the Jewish state with the Jewish right of return in occupied Palestine, its not surprising that Judaism will fall by the wayside.
aparisien:t i personally believe that Zionism has some similarities with Nazism
Some? Apart from the lebensraum for the chosen peoples [reinrassig], and indifference to the point of genocide for those who don’t make the grade [untermenschen], what else is there? (!) <—- my version of the SarcMark
Sammy, the main resemblance that Zionism has to Nazism, or for that matter a host of ideologies, is the reliance on human will and effort, instead of God’s will. And the other is that Zionism has no, nada, zip, principles, it only has aims, with not a single restraining factor, except what people are unwilling to do, and that isn’t much.
Zionism comes out of the unwillingness to accept the Jewish religion, and the relationship between God and the Jews posited by it. Problem is, it ain’t pretty, and it’s not a good relationship. The Zionist solution? Just pretend it never happened, and use the Torah piecemeal, like some Christian denominations do.
Now I don’t mind if the Zionists don’t want to be Jews, but instead be something else, but the model they picked (artificial nationalism with parameters bounded only by human will, and aims which supercede the people involved), is about the worst one around, especially if there isn’t very many of you, and BTW, has been proved a complete failure..
I did answer the question, in stating that I regard the politics of “hasbara” as incidental.
That it is a good thing that Israel sent aid, period.
Live with it.
It represents both good pr, and good internally motivated action. I know so many Zionists that are genuinely and commitedly helping poor people in the third world, three that spend a large portion of their lives in Haiti in particular prior to the earthquake and through very difficult political settings, that the implication that the purpose of the aid was primarily PR is ludicrous.
Even relative to Palestine, following the hopefulness of the Oslo period, MANY Israelis and Israel proper contributed considerable short and long-term aid to both the West Bank and to Gaza. But, things went south, and primarily as a result of the two reactionary militant parties: the ultra-rightwing in Israel illustrated by the assassination of Rabin (followed not by determined vote of support for his mission, but by fear-based election of likud); and the accompanying wave of suicide bombings and other terror on Israeli civilians by Hamas.
Each timed to distort peace-seeking. BOTH.
No, stop equating you crook.
The point of Donchin’s commentary is that Israel pursued an objective of PR.
He provided an example of what would be a more efficient and helpful gesture.
But that example lacked the ‘face-time’.
Hence, yes, the primary motivation is tactical. That’s just standard. It’s institutional. It’s the same for the US.
This same INSTITUTIONAL observation is seen in how the MSM frames the news.
What you are again trying to do, is humanize a State – a political entity. States are not moral actors.
And if Israel even met the criteria it would be a catch-22. Zionism would not tolerate humanism.
As expected, you ignored Sara Roy’s analysis of Gaza’s economy. As far as I know, she is the authority on this issue and has written one of the only thorough studies.’
And I’m sure there are Zionists who go outside of Israel-Palestine to be humanists. They are called hypocrites.
Phil’s article merely points how the MSM gives special kudos to Israel–what other country who is contributing aid has the MSM singled out for Haitian aid kudos, especially via our USA TV mass consumption? And how can she compare one team of Israeli doctors to the USA total effort as the principal donor and orchestrator of support system for all the aid coming in? Live with the whole truth, Dick Witty. Period.
Even if the Israeli contribution to Haiti was entirely motivated by PR (extremely unlikely), its still a good thing.
I hope you get that 100,000 people likely died, and it wasn’t accompanied by war. To politicize it solely, as now four articles here have done, is also a cynical approach.
For Israel, dealing with Hamas and other militants is a very difficult quandry. There is no possibility of mutual acceptance, as it has never been offered by Hamas.
To Israelis, your comments are part of a never-ending stream of hatred that is cited as response to actions, but always extends to vitriol that has and is threatening to existence, as if the most pleasing state for Jews living as Jews, is “on the run”. I don’t know if you feel that, but you express that.
Its not necessary to object to the same things that you object to, or in the same way, or from the same perspective, to work for good, in this case including the well-being of the Gazan and West Bank and Israeli and diaspora Palestinians.
The two-state peaceful solution at the green line is an answer to MANY of the tangible present issues. To adopt an attitude of hatred towards me because I come to that conclusion from different perspectives and priorities, is childish as Yonira expressed.
I get that you don’t understand the knot that Hamas as government of Gaza is in the world. It stops very very much that could otherwise occur, and even that with internal struggle in Israel in particular.
But, you calling liberals “nazis” stops most of what you urge. I hope you see that at some point, and learn to control your tongue and pen.
You are not a liberal. You abuse that distinction.
Your comment is once again devoid of evidence.
The context to my argument above, includes (but isn’t limited to) the build-up to the Gaza massacre, the PR during the massacre, the blockade before and after that is on-going, the various NGO reports confirming that Israel is intentionally killing civilians, etc. etc. etc.
I also have read books on Palestinian economy. And am reading one now on architecture and archaeology and how it has become politicized.
I never said it was all PR (perhaps I did though, in anger). I did say or imply, (probably ‘say) that the primary motivation was PR. And it was of course.
And no, this is not about the Haitian victims. I am not degrading them. I am focusing on the actions of a criminal State. A State that butchers 1300 people in 3 weeks, after starving them. Then continues to starve them. Etc.
You are a Nazi. Don’t put it in quotations, you know what it means. You are not, nor have you ever been a liberal.
Read the Goldstone Report, you ignorant buffoon.
Witty: “I did answer the question, in stating that I regard the politics of “hasbara” as incidental.
That it is a good thing that Israel sent aid, period.
Live with it.”
Israeli aid veteran begs to differ with Dick Witty, and tells Israelis so:
link to azvsas.blogspot.com
Period.
Citizen, believe me, it would not be beyond possibility for Israelis to finally decide they cannot go on living this way, and must join the civilised world, only to be obstructed by American Zionist-supporters, who don’t have to pay the price. Besides, any Israeli compromises might interfere with ziocaine production, which is what really matters to Zionist-supporters, like our trolls here. Why shouldn’t Israelis die to keep them high? They got no skin in the game.
Do you think the wave of Palestinian suicide bombings have anything to do with Israel’s feelings toward the Palestinians?
When your child, wife, brother, friend etc. gets blown up in a Sbarros, having Passover dinner, or on a bus it doesn’t generate good feelings.
Last time I checked, Zionists have been killing innocent Palestinians since before ‘the Jewish State’ existed.
It was Zionists who perfected the tactic of bombing buses, cafes, martketplaces, etc.
link to lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com
Whatever Palestinians have done to Israel, Israel has done to them in far greater frequency and scope. This is on top of the occupation and colonization.
And of course, there would be no Jewish State without the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.
Palestinians including Hamas have called for an end to suicide bombing.
link to guardian.co.uk
Suicide bombings which claimed the lives of 400 Israelis have largely ceased. Meanwhile, Israel continues its illegal brutal military occupation of the West Bank and Gaza strip, maintains a midieval siege on the Gaza strip, and enforces apartheid on the rest while still carrying out a policy of ethnic cleansing.
Remember, the Palestinians didn’t come to the Jews to start shit. Its Europeans Zionists who came to the Palestinians and kicked most of them off their land.
Thats what this conflict is about and until you rectify that issue it will persist.
“Do you think the wave of Palestinian suicide bombings have anything to do with Israel’s feelings toward the Palestinians?”
I agree, Julian, it probably didn’t. More than likely it had to do with their actions toward the Palestinians.
“‘Do you think the wave of Palestinian suicide bombings have anything to do with Israel’s feelings toward the Palestinians?”‘
No, because Israel’s founding fathers were writing vile drivel about Palestinians long before suicide bombings.
‘”When your child, wife, brother, friend etc. gets blown up in a Sbarros, having Passover dinner, or on a bus it doesn’t generate good feelings. “‘
What about bombs landing on you during Ramadan?
A newborn in Haiti was named “Israel”, after the heroes who saved the mother and child . My newspaper told me so.
Rasta bands used to associate themselves with Israel, since they identified with the ‘struggle’. I don’t think you’ll find a Jamaican group branding themselves with the name ‘Israelites’ today.
And Phil, Andrea Mitchell is carrying water for Israel, just like her Fed husband Greenspan did for 3 decades. You should’ve stayed on board with the team, man! The grass is Green on that side, bra…
It doesn’t do us any good to bash Israel efforts in Haiti. We need to focus on I/P issue and leave this humanitarian relief separate.
Thanks BDSNOW, but I think it is always worthwhile to capture another cynical moment in Jewish history. I keep tabs on this and I can still focus on BDS!
Stop saying ‘we’, BSD. You are a troll.
Why don’t you read the article, and address the content?
I guess Donchin is just trying to ‘bash’ Israel too, huh? Maybe he’s antisemitic.
You know, not *everything* has to be tortured into fitting one’s worldview. The Israelis do bad, they get whacked. They do good, they get whacked. (Here with this at least.)
Gee, and people wonder why Israelis/jews feel that no matter what they do they get whacked.
Nuts, even if it all *is* just PR, it’s still a good thing. Not every possible criticism always has to be made you know. (Much less ones founded completely on suspicion.)
Not one of Phil’s better moments I don’t think.
I see you fail to see to distinction between charity and PR.
If the shoe fits, etc. etc.
Is it PR? You just conceded it could be (of course it’s PR – have we forgotten who we’re talking about here?) PR.
I’ve been reading about the involvement of the Christian Right in Reagan’s Latin/Central American adventures. Guess who was also helping kill various shades of brown people? Israel!
I mean, stop thinking that States are moral institutions. Phil is being consistent. He’s not at a low-point.
I don’t know why you are trying to give Israel a mulligan? Wtf?
Cliff wrote:
“I mean, stop thinking that States are moral institutions…. I don’t know why you are trying to give Israel a mulligan?
I’m not, but one should either follow evidence where it leads or admit that the basis for their conclusions is nothing more than their untethered emotions. And by far the most remarkable piece of evidence out there is Israel’s incredibly quick response which is strongly indicative that this was not taken out of some ulterior, carefully weighted PR calculation but instead purely and simply the realization that Israel had something to offer quickly.
Beyond that, the not giving of even just possibly merited mulligans not only betrays one as having an ungenerous spirit, but also possibly of having a positively mean-spirited if not unhinged nature. The kind that would, if Israel had done nothing, would then result in the criticism that Israel never does anything for non-jews, and doesn’t even care enough about them to make a PR effort to help them.
Moreover if as you say no States are moral institutions, then Israel is no more worthy of criticism or condemnation here than any other country trying to help Haiti. And yet so far as I can see it is indeed Israel that has solely come in for your criticism here ( … for doing something!).
Forget just the idea that you hurt your own cause when arguing like this Cliff, eventually this kind of thinking corrupts your own intellect’s nuance and sense of balance. You can’t write as well as you do without having that; don’t lose it.
I agree with Sin Nombre here. It’s not moral to criticize people that are really doing good work. We have to remember that we are on the side of morality and we must respect and encourage good deeds from any quarter.
Simply request, BSD:
Paraphrase the criticism and then explain why or why not it is true.
If you can provide an argument ‘against’ – then we can go from there. If you’re going to issue idiotic and shallow requests that ignore reality then you’re no different from the other jackasses (yonira, Baruch, Julian, Witty, etc.) spamming this blog.
(Of course you are though. It’s obvious.)
“Gee, and people wonder why Israelis/jews feel that no matter what they do they get whacked.”
Yeah, Sin, I noticed that, too, when I was growing up! I used to ask myself (or even God sometimes, like Tevye) why we Jews had a paradoxical psychology of our own, completely different from the rest of humanity, which never feels like that.
I mean, look how much we Jews have contributed to the US, and badly we are held back and “whacked” here in the US. All you gotta do is go to any of the main Jewish organisations, like AIPAC, and their websites are all prefaced by long statements on how bad the US sucks for Jews.
But in one particular, your comment is dead-nuts accurate: all Jews feel the same response to events, at the same time, all over the world. It’s a Jewish thing.
Yeah, like who’s talking about the Icelandic special teams sent in very early? Just because their so homogenous Chris Matthews won’t even mention them–and what about that Palestinian aid coming in?
I think you fail to see the entire political calculation of Israeli objectives here, which many would perceive as cynical. This is a golden opportunity for most dumb americans to say,’ geez, Israel is the nice guy’.
Chu, how can you criticize a moral, goodness-filled, action such as this?
Do not think! Just accept the goodness!
Does it ever occur to Zionists that when you are stuck telling people what they can and cannot think, what they can and cannot say, you are way, way behind the curve.
It’s funny, Zionist supporters could never get mad at the Zionists for selling them a load of crap. They never say “Look you guys, you said it was gonna be easy, and we would get rid of these people, and now it ain’t happening, why not”? Now that might be a sensible question. It’ll get you a whole lot further than telling other people what they may and may not think. But no, the Zionists told you all this stuff about it being yours, so everybody else just better disappear or we will call them anti-Semites!
But no, they could never actually try to change the people they might have some influence on, or who are responsible for their condition.
The joy of 1947 was short lived.
Sin Nombre: Nuts, even if it all *is* just PR, it’s still a good thing. Not every possible criticism always has to be made you know. (Much less ones founded completely on suspicion.)
Perhaps it’s a good thing, but it’s also infuriating when you see how the MSM spews the high-octane hasbara to the American public, while disregarding the man-made humanitarian disaster that grows worse on a daily basis in Palestine. Every five minutes the MSM is hitting on me to TEXT another $10 for “Hope for Haiti” and they’re having a two-hour telethon tomorrow night to raise more money for those affected by the disaster in Haiti.
Meanwhile, the Palestinians are intentionally hidden away from view. S.N., you say it’s not one of Phil’s better moments, but I disagree: the hypocrisy is shocking. Haitians deserve our compassion, Gazans don’t?
Sin Nombre : You know, not *everything* has to be tortured into fitting one’s worldview. The Israelis do bad, they get whacked. They do good, they get whacked. (Here with this at least.)
Gee, and people wonder why Israelis/jews feel that no matter what they do they get whacked.
I recommend you read about Roger Ebert’s change of heart over the protest in TIFF
“I thought of it as an innocent goodwill gesture, but now realize it was part of a deliberate plan to “re-brand” Israel in Toronto, as a pilot for a larger such program- Roger Ebert”
Its not whether they are doing good or bad, its about intent. When Israelis stand a few meters from starving children who are clutching the corpses of their dead parents and block Red Cross aid so that the children can be rescued or when they don’t allow ambulances to pick up the injured and indeed, bomb hospitals where the injured lay dying, then all the PR on how marvelous they are in Haiti is just white wash for their crimes. It would be like a full page spread in the paper on how much Hitler loved his dogs. There is nothing wrong with loving dogs, is there?
link to Eberts article:
Oscar wrote:
“Haitians deserve our compassion, Gazans don’t?”
However much one shares your frustration with the MSM, Oscar, if you let that kind of thing trump your logic you’re lost, and you know in your bones that your “Haitians/Gazans” dichotomy is a false choice that doesn’t have to be made here, right?
Sammy wrote:
“Its not whether they are doing good or bad, its about intent.”
Hey, thanks for that Ebert thing but I still stand by my original thinking as to the issue with Haiti: It’s also about evidence and intellectual modesty about what we can know for sure, and moderation, and balance. (Which we all lose at one point or another for sure.)
For instance, even if the final Israeli decision-maker *purely* had PR as his or her intent (itself dubious), what about those brave and hard-working Israelis who are over there in Haiti sweating their asses off, risking disease and whatever, away from their families? And what about the Israeli taxpayers who funded this and are proud of what their money is doing?
It’s always a little suspicious seeing someone with a point of view trying to shoehorn absolutely *every* last fact or phenomenon into their theory. (E.g., that Israel is in the main going off wrong-headed, or led by zealots, or etc.) In the first place isn’t needed for their theory to have validity, and in the second even weakens it because everyone knows that damn near nothing is totally black nor totally white.
Because the final Israeli decision-maker here *was* acting as a representative of his or her country, to totally condemn what they did one has to posit that every person they represented had the same cynical intent or desire you believe they had. And don’t you really believe that the vast majority of Israelis did not? People are people the world over, and I don’t think they did.
Doesn’t mean that a tad bit of suspicion about the motives of the decision-maker is out of bounds, but surely a huge chuck of the reaction still ought to be laudatory. And that’s not what I was seeing here.
I guess giving Israel credit for good deeds in Haiti is like watching a serial killer or other sociopathic type mow an old woman’s lawn (or some other charitable thing). It’s hard to soften your heart and accept the gesture as authentic, especially after watching such clear-cut, consistent, regular efforts at hiding their misdeeds or creating justifications for unjustifiable actions.
It’s like saying ‘shouldn’t everyone get the benefit of the doubt?’. Well after following this stuff for the past now almost 9 yrs since 9/11 – Israel no longer gets the benefit of the doubt – they used up those credits with me long ago.
It’s almost funny how much Phil hates Israel.
So? Vot’s to love?
What’s there to love over there in Shtolenland?
Not as funny as watching Dershie do his spiel.
Faintly reminds me of when that white separatist group cleaned up and maintained that stretch of highway; kept it clean as a whistle; but the government sign honoring their effort and the stretch of road was change by naming it after a famous black lady.
Dunno if the charitable group is still keeping that stretch of road clean…
Congratulations John Smithson! You were quoted today by Bradley Burston in Haaretz! Okay, so he called you a racist, but as long as he spelled your name right. Right?
A very good chance to steal human organs for Israel.
The above comment crosses the line of fair criticism. Lives are being saved in Haiti and we should applaud that.
BSD, how did you feel about Israel illegally harvesting organs? Was that a moral action?
No one is saying that Israel shouldn’t be helping Haitians.
What we are questioning however are the intentions of Israeli actions in Haiti.
How could the Israelis be so quick to offer aid to a country on the other side of the world but at the same time won’t even allow basic goods much less reconstruction material into an area that they themselves carpet bombed.
The people in Gaza aren’t even asking Israel to give them aid they’re just asking Israel to lift the siege on their territory and to allow them the chance to rebuild the homes the Israelis destroyed.
“The above comment crosses the line of fair criticism.”
You shoulda stuck to religion and not have gotten involved with states, BSDNow.
Once you get to the level of states and politics, that whole “fair criticism” goes out the window. Sorry, don’t like it, but there’s nothing you can do about it. Like I said, lighting a couple of candles on Fri. evenings never killed anybody, and that can be demonstrated. Establishing a State, well, it isn’t all that clear, is it.
How much do you hate Judaism, that you would make it responsible for that? I can’t even imagine.
And you know what’s funny , Julian? The idea that Judaism provides any kind of framework or principles which are politically disciplining or even cohesive enough to found a State on, and call it the Jewish State.
Hey, but you go ahead and use your religion for whatever you want, like a rag you can throw away when you’re done.
BDSNOW, if saved lives is the issue why didn’t the american military 9which took over the airport) let the french hospital land and set up until 3 days after the israelis – miraculously – were cleared to land? the french hospital had considerably more resources – and has common language with the haitians – than representatives of a country that not long ago sanctioned the murder of 100′s of women and children and the whole sale destruction of habitat?
I agree with your name: BSD Now!
Now, who can top that cynicism?
One could easily assume organs have already been traded and transplanted, and perhaps should. Not because of Israelis, but because a valuable market exists for organs.
Watch out for organ stealing in Haiti:
link to blacklistednews.com
Remember how CNN spent nearly an hour with lavish praise for the israeli astronaut when the space shuttle Columbia disintegrated upon reentry Feb 1, 2003? Barely a minute on that beautiful woman from India and just a handful of minutes for the rest of the American crew but endless coverage of the israeli astronaut.
We all get it, our policymakers and our media are instruments for israel’s use.
I expect that now that Phil has been to Israel, he notes that Israelis are human beings, and that any political approach is both most humane and likely most effective treating them and referring to them respectfully.
Who sent aid to Haiti? Was it the state, or was it voluntary donations or some combination? A good journalist would investigate that, no?
The state is an elected but still different institution. It is reasonable to criticize actions by the state.
human beings just like the serbians were? or the africaneers and boor descendents in south africa? phil never assumed Israelis were inhuman only that they behave – as a collective – as a compromised humanoid organism. one that cares nothing except for themselves. As a result they have the governments they have, the last one representing pretty much the consensus. Unfortunately, the Israeli collective is also insane and should be approached as such. You witty have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The human face of israel can be seen in hebron and in gaza. it can be seen in their prisons. it can be seen in the apartheid, it can be seen in the schools – segregated by religion and by caste and by color. it can be seen in the brain washed platitudes you hear at every street corner. it can be seen in max blumenthal’s “feeling the hate” videos.
BTW, I find it interesting that the israeli team was clear to land ASAP even as medicines sans frontiers was turned away from the airport for days. I am sure there were words from above to ensure the hasbara act gets maximum play. To me it’s unbelievably cynical – and in fact, preverse, that these so-called “humanitarians” have no room in their hearts of stone for some sick and injured palestinians not 40 km from tel aviv.
OTOH, I am amazed that obama sent that duo of neoliberal and neoconservative ex-pres to haiti as america’s “front”. clinton who did as much as anyone to entrence haiti’s poverty through neo-liberal, inhumane policies and bush who is responsible for murdering over 1 million humans. Sometimes I wonder how hungry I’d have to be to accept as much as a hand shake from these operators. the great jeremy scahill has an excellent article on the “humanitarianism” exhibited by clintonesque policies. Just to see clinton and bush standing side by side looking ‘suitably ‘concerned” is enough to make one gag.
“I expect that now that Phil has been to Israel, he notes that Israelis are human beings..”
The Nazis were human beings too as I recall. So was Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao.
Your point Witty?
Its actually very upsetting to me to hear Phil evoke the “hasbara” theme. It indicates to me that he has adopted name-calling again, rather than making a better argument.
Seriously.
Sure Richard, we all know how receptive Israel is to “argument”. And how can you blame them, when every argument is an anti-Semitic plot to deprive them of something? After all, if the person wasn’t an anti-Semite, he would be a fervrent Zionist, so it’s pretty evident where anyone presenting an argument is coming from, right?
Try it. Try making contact with Zionists, listening to their concerns, and then successfully addressing the concerns rationally, rather than with ridicule only.
If you are accurate in how you convey Palestinian experience, and can demonstrate it in some way, the worst that will happen is that Zionists will have some tension that they have to resolve.
If there is an actual demonstrated path to peace, then they will quickly and easily choose that (if they have that dynamic inner tension between compassion and defense).
Bullshit. This place is infested with Zionists today. Their concerns are solely in promulgating the belief that all Arabs are murderers and terrorists and that the land of Palestine had no inhabitants until God gave it back to the Jews. They are entirely uninterested in listening to the Palestinian experience, entirely uninterested in any kind of peace that doesn’t involve Greater Israel arabenrein from the sea to the river, and hopefully beyond. And they demonstrate absolutely no compassion, except for the suffering of Jews.
My concern is to find a way that Israelis and Palestinians can live as good neighbors to good neighbors.
That includes freedom from harrassment for Israeli civilians, freedom from threats of violence from Palestinians and other Arabs and Islamicists, and acceptance of the right of Israel to govern as Israel at the green line (with consented modifications).
So, there are some other Zionists that you are talking about, not yoshira, wonderingjew, myself, other liberals that participate here regularly.
no concern about freedom from harassment for Palestinians, freedom from threats of violence from Israeli civilians, settlers and idf alike? or basically you just care about the making sure giving up their oppressors status doesn’t make israel less safe?
to hear Phil evoke the “hasbara” theme. It indicates to me that he has adopted name-calling again, rather than making a better argument.
Seriously.
namecalling? i do believe people who advocate for israel and israel diplomacy is self identified as hasbara. the word in itself is not insulting. as for the theme..Seriously..are you asserting its probably just a coincidence the whole world is aware of israels presents in haiti? you think it is a coincidence all the tv’s are yammering on about israel in haiti? off the top of you head what percentage of people heard those stories and thought to themselves ‘gee, they could have probably used some of that aid after the slaughter in gaza, especially considering how israel’s hasbara teams kept saying they weren’t targeting civilians. where are all the human rights workers from israel flooding into gaza?’ i wonder of the haitians need to answer hrs of questions before being allowed medical treatment in haiti?
Try making contact with Zionists, listening to their concerns, and then successfully addressing the concerns rationally, rather than with ridicule only.
nobody ever has to try to make contact w/a zionist. all one has to do is communicate online about palestine and they are there usually dominating the discussion. i would appreciate once and awhile being able to discuss the issues w/out the zionist viewpoint. at all. nada , finito, sans zionist viewpoint, american style where everybody’s equal like the good ol days. i’m not usually in the mood to address zionist concerns. how can we love you if you won’t go away? Try making contact with Zionists? lol
“Try it. Try making contact with Zionists,”
I grew up with Zionists, in a Zionist family, all the women were in Hadassah, and I probably have a few relatives in settlements right now. Halls full of plaques from Zionist organisations.
What a relief it must have been for Jewish parents to know that emotionally disturbed sons or daughters with violent acting-out problems would find useful employment for their disabilities and tendencies in the settlements. One airplane ticket is a hell of a lot cheaper than years of therapy.
“‘My concern is to find a way that Israelis and Palestinians can live as good neighbors to good neighbors.’”
Rubbish. Your concern is to find a way to continue to protect Israel from scruitiny and accountability. Your faux concern for tghe Palestinians is just a smokescreen to give win credibility.
The present is the present. What you “tried” in the past, is that past.
Better that you get good at what you try, if its important at all.
Ridicule instead of argument is an admission of your failure, and a renunciation to try.
Your concern is to find a way to get rid of Pals in order to build your bloody Eretz Yisrael, be honnest Dick Witty
The oppossite of that.
I sincerely am seeking co-existence, but in a manner that optimizes self-governance for both communities.
No, what you are seeking is the contuation of the staus quo.
Anyone who opposes BDS (which is legal) and decribes it as collective punishment, while supporting the illegal blockade (ie. collective punishement) of Gaza is a liar and a hyprocrite.
Anyone who claims to endorse self-governance, while insisting that the port in Gaza be managed by an international task group is a liar and a hyprocrite.
Anyone who argues that demanding Israle stop oppressing the Palestinians in the West Bank, becasue it would be overly intrusive to do so is a liar and a hyprocrite.
I don’t “support” the blockade as in urge that it continue.
I support Hamas joining the international norms of the world, permanently and firmly and confidently renouncing terror on civilians as a means of dissent, SO that the blockade can be lifted confidently.
Supporting the blockade is supporting collective punishment, while arguing that colelctive punichment against Israel is immoral.
That is hyprocrisy.
Hamas HAS joining the international norms of the world. It supports a 2 state solution and has said it will not oppose the Arab peace initiative. Israel and the US are the only countries that oppose these poisitions.
Israel has never permanently and firmly and confidently renouncing terror. Or are you arguing that terror is fine so long as it is used as a took of ppression and domination?
You are worse than a hyprocrite.
And how Israel is joining the international norms of the world if it never applied international law? Witty you keep repeating the same bullshit
Great point aparisian,
I too am curious as to how violating and flouting 100′s of UN Resolutions, enthnic cleansing, the Geneva Conventions and countless war crimes fits in to joining the international norms of the world.
My question to Witty, why this silence when we point out the contradictions in your comments?
Shingo, these guys are so hypocrites, liars, and manipulators.
Watch Finkelstein vs Ben Ami who showed that Israel never accepted International law. link to youtube.com
The funny thing aparisian, is that Witty, who has long opposed adn criticized BDS on the grounds that it has no specific and clearly defined goals, has inadvertently provided them.
Hipocrisy and lies is too subtle a description for them.
“Hamas HAS joining the international norms of the world. ”
Are you serious? Why does it continue to shoot rockets at civilians, then?
Witty the answer is simple: Because IDF cowards didnt allow them to have weapons to defend themselves against colonial Zionism.
Dick Witty, now its my turn. how Israel is joining International norms while it is/was committing war crimes and crimes against humanity? Why your crimes are more moral than the attacks of Hamas against innocent Israel civilians?
Yes we are serious Witty.
Hamas has givenm suport to the international consensus, while Isral rejects it.
“Why does it continue to shoot rockets at civilians, then? ”
They don’t, though Israel has been vilating the ceasefire and bombing Gaza, killing over a dozen Palestinians in the last few months. But when fighting break out again, you Witty, will be blaming Hamas for the escaltation right?
The same thing aplies in 2008. There were no rockets fired in 4 months, and becasue the ceasfire was threatening to become more permanent, Israel broke it to start a war because as Tzipi Livni said, a long ceasfire is not on Israel’s strategic interests.
During the massacre of Gaza, the UN overwhlemingly supported a ceasfire, which Hamas had also proposed, but only Israel (using the US as it’s proxy) blocked all calls for one. Inother words, Israel was not in concert with theinternational norms of the world.
The same took aplce in the 2006 Lebanon war. The UN overwhlemingly supported a ceasfire, which Hezbollah supported, but only Israel (using the US as it’s proxy) blocked all calls for one. Inother words, Israel was not in concert with theinternational norms of the world.
Hamas is more in line with international norms than is Israel.
Hamas isint the one militarily occupying millions of people illegally.
Hamas isint the one building illegal criminal settlements on occupied territory.
Hamas isint the one enforcing an illegal inhumane blockade on one of the poorest and densest territories on the planet.
Hamas isint the one blowing up hospitals, schools, homes, water treatment facilities, sewage treatment facilities, flour mills, factories, power stations, and all other manners of civilian infrastructure.
Hamas isint the one objecting to the 1967 borders as a basis for a 2 state solution.
The only thing Hamas is guilty of is firing primitive sugar powered rockets into Israel in retaliation for an Israeli imposed occupation and blockade.
Anyway Richard, I will bow to your superior knowledge. Are you still going with the “Brainwashed” or “coerced” theory of Phil Weiss, as you proposed when he returned from his first Gaza trip, or do you think its something even deeper and more pathological? I mean Gott in Himmler how could a nice Jewish boy turn against his family and their “intimate” friends like that? Please help me understand this tragedy!
You needn’t be afraid of being frank and truthful, Richard. I’ve already signed a form stating that when the Cossacks come to load us on to boxcars, Phil can take my place on the last plane out to Israel, so he won’t come to any harm.
Any aid provided to Haiti from Israel comes from US economic and military aid to Israel. One part of the aid probably not mentioned on the corporate owned news are the militant civilian control techniques developed by Israel.
Even on the Haiti issue, if you can successfully encourage the feeling of compassion for another, and can show that others, Palestinians, are similarly in need, then you will appeal to the goodness in people, that they are proud of (internally).
Why seek to rub people’s noses in dirt when there are other options?
Arab states?
You tell us, Mr. Wittypocrisy.
The people of Gaza sent aid.
Can you imagine that. I wonder if Israel will let it through, considering the blockade they still insist on maintaining on the strip.
Richard this has nothing to do with rubbing dirt in peoples noses.
Israels explicit goal in going to Haiti isint to help the Haitians, its to boost Israeli PR on the world scene after the massacre they inflicted in Gaza.
This is besides the sheer hypocrisy of Israel sending aid to an island half a world away when Gaza is only a kilomoter away and still reeling from the effects of a massive Israeli bombardment and massacre, not to mention illegal and inhumane siege.
Even more ironic is that Israel is probably billing the US for their costs and outlay.
“‘Why seek to rub people’s noses in dirt when there are other options? “‘
We were going to ask you the same question. For example, why start a war with Hamas, when there are other options, like a) observing the ceasfire and b) returning to the ceasefire after having broken it?
Dr. Richard Besser was obviously very impressed with the Israeli operation. He said they laid out their field hospital with “military precision” with individual tents for maternity, pediatrics, ICU. I assume his report is accurate and the Israeli operation was indeed impressive. And that raises an interesting question.
How is it that Israel is so able to mount such an impressive display so quickly, while the United States, which is so much closer and presumably better (or at least more massively) equipped, mounts only what Besser implies is a much more disorganized inferior response. Is it that Israel just has better medical personnel? Our medical response is run by FEMA or its equivalent? Why can’t we do any better? Why after all this time are other countries and organizations still complaining that we won’t let their planes land. Why did we concentrate initially in getting so many troops on the ground (which were then confined to airfield and vicinity instead of getting them out in the city.
If Bush were still president everyone would be calling this Katrina II. Why are we so apparently inept here?
“If Bush were still president”
With Obama sitting in the Oval Office, Bush might as well be President. Obama has neither tried to stop Bush’s wars, or tried to regain control of the military and the intelligence agencies.
He will end up being a placeholder for the next Republican President. He has gone out of his way to assure the military and the rest there will be no accountability for the Bush years. When he did that he reduced himself to “chump” status, and his reward will be a plethora of knives in his back.
Or do you think the military is just aching to give Obama the victories in Iraq and Afghanistan they denied Bush?
Obama is not a very smart man, but worse than that, he’s not very brave.
Anyway, if you want to know why we are so inept, it’s because nothing has changed since Obama has been elected.
Mooser, great observation as always . . . Hillary Clinton is having spasms of ecstasy over the possibility of a “do-over” for her to become the next Democratic presidential nominee. She’s thrilled that Scott Brown won the Senate seat in Massachusetts and the negative publicity that comes with polls showing her boss Obama is at historic lows on his approval levels.
Now, with this in mind, Ms. Clinton has two major incentives to make certain the “peace process” fails. 1) to not give Obama an historic accomplishment to allow him to retroactively deserve his Nobel Peace Prize (remember how hard Bill Clinton once lobbied for one of those puppies as a legacy booster, including hiring a PR firm?); and 2) not to piss off the Zionist campaign contributors who have promised her a “river of gold” if she runs again, while undermining the peace process by praising Israel as making “unprecedented concessions” while it speeds up settlement building in the Occupied Territories.
Yes, Ms. Clinton has come a long way since giving Suha Arafat a kiss on the cheeks and once glibly stating that Palestinians deserve an independent state. She’s the poster child for AIPAC infiltration of our foreign policy.
Hilary Clinton is by far the most craven Democrat politician in the country – even more craven than Rod Blogojevich.
Watching her in full Rovesque action during the last primaries was just as revolting and disturbing as watching Hannity et all on Fox tv.
Oh yes we are certain that Hilary would be nothing/nobody without her generous American Likudnik backers.
Maybe ‘the US’ gave Israel the lead on this one. I think the overlap of interests and blah blah is far too much. To the extent that our foreign policy is indistinguishable from Israel’s. So that’s not out of the question.
Israel probably asked Obama to let them get their photo op first.
Why are we so apparently inept here?
Isn’t the Israeli medical contingent IDF? Perhaps our response is so lackluster because our mobile medical detachments are in Iraq and Afghanistan patching up American soldiers wounded and maimed fighting two Zionist wars.
The larger the organization the more disorganized. FEMA was the dumping grounds for political favor jobs. Idon’t know if that is still true, but does anything ever change?
Meanwhile Israel has stopped issuing work permits for International NGOs working in the occupied territories. I guess we won’t see that on CNN or the symbolic donations of toys made by Palestinians to the children of Haiti.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1143854.html
Richard Witty:
I expect that now that Phil has been to Israel, he notes that Israelis are human beings, and that any political approach is both most humane and likely most effective treating them and referring to them respectfully.
I have never attacked Richard Witty directly, and this is the first (and hopefully last) time.
How can he possibly describe as ‘human beings’ an Israeli population that is overwhelmingly in support of their government’s devastating attack on a vast prison camp that they never, ever see?
How can he possibly describe the assassination campaign against Hamas leaders (Rantisi, Ahmed Yassin) with their ‘collateral damage’ as most humane and likely most effective treating them and referring to them respectfully
Richard, I suggest you stay at home, and do something pleasurable, like wanking, instead of posting your incomprehensible bullshit here. It has taken me some time time to realise quite how objectionable you are, but now I know.
Well, human beings are capable of terrible evil as well as fantastic good. Nazi Germans were, after all, human as well. The danger comes in where other human beings fail to recognized other human beings as human beings. That’s basically what Israelis do — they consider the Palestinians to be animals.
In a passive-aggressive way, that’s what Witty and other “polite” Zionists do to the Palestinians — at best, in their eyes, Palestinians are violent irrational savages (or alternatively, infantilized and need to be “cared for” behind concrete barriers and checkpoints). Witty openly ignores and disregards crimes against Palestinians, every time. Most of the time he doesn’t even deign to read the article or weigh in, and when he does it’s generally to desperately divert attention to Zionist talking points.
Also? I think in a way, Witty posting here is how he gets off. He definitely goes out of his way to stroke his ego, and I suspect the dog and pony show is a charade intended to “prove” how much smarter he is than the rest of us, and power of that sort can often be useful for generating arousal.
Richard, I’ve never seen Witty get so upset, or so abusive, as when Phil wrote from Gaza and called the Gazans “perfectly civilised”. It went through Witty like a knife.
The comments from Phil Weiss’ first Gaza post are in the archives. Witty was hopping mad. And his reply was stunning in its simplicity and logic: Phil had been “coerced” or “brainwashed” by the Gazans.
Thats a lie Mooser. You must have been reading someone else, or referring to some other comment.
And here we were thinking ‘de’ Nile was in Egypt.
“‘Also? I think in a way, Witty posting here is how he gets off.”‘
Witty gets a great deal of satiefaction from provoking a response, so that when he angers and frustrates others, he convinces himself that he’s won the argument because he is able to maintain his sanguine monotone in the face of their outrage.
I’m here to argue that there are other methods of dissent than abuse and than collective punishment (opportunistic BDS), that are both more humane and more effective at actually improving lives.
It is a great tragedy that Ali Abunimeh for example is one of the leaders of the theme that “anything good Israel does in the world is PR, cover for their exploitation”. It puts him in the position of opposing that Israel do good, including to Palestinians.
It is a component of the BDS effort, that results in 2 steps backward for every gamble of winning the lottery forward.
Better that people do good, create relationships, accomplish things as THE basis of political organizing.
“”I’m here to argue that there are other methods of dissent than abuse and than collective punishment (opportunistic BDS), that are both more humane and more effective at actually improving lives.”‘
You are also here to argue that while there are other methods of dissent than abuse and than collective punishment (opportunistic BDS), that are both more humane and more effective at actually improving lives, you will not consider those “‘other methods”‘ as options when it comes to Israel’s blockade of Gaza.
“‘It puts him in the position of opposing that Israel do good, including to Palestinians.”‘
Like what Witty? The unprecendented freeze on settlements? Isn’t that like offering a morotorium on genocide?
Regarding BDS, the Hasbara machine started to attack back, here is what they are diffusing these days link to youtube.com
I personally think that Witty is working somehow for a pro Israel Hasbara machine or maybe IDF. He is using the same logics.
I don’t think Witty is working somehow for a pro Israel Hasbara machine, but I’m pretty sure he’s studied it.
“but I’m pretty sure he’s studied it”
I’ve studied logic. I never heard the term “hasbara” until I posted here.
You ignore common sense from others perspectives, imagining an organized conspiracy.
I’ve studied logic as well but i don’t see the common sense on your comments. I just see hatred towards Pals, and unconditional love to Zionism.
What other methods? All you do here is A) not read content, but reply anyway and B) lecture people here as if you’re both sincere and moral
You have been proven over and over again to be a liar and intellectually dishonest.
Yet, you ignore everyone. We’re reading your posts. It’s you that is the problem and your inability to reflect and ask why the regulars (ALL of them) are able to dismantle your PR bullshit so effortlessly.
The only reason you aren’t partially banned from this forum, is because A) you do not tread on issues that bother Phil’s identity and B) you are his acquaintance in RL.
Richard Silverstein, a respected blogger, has partially banned you because he identifies you correctly as a troll.
What do you have to say to that, Dick?
” It has taken me some time time to realise quite how objectionable you are, but now I know.”
I know Witty often annoys me, but I should learn to be more patient. He is indeed a valuable anti-Zionist resource.
But Jeez, you would think his own kids would…. Oh, whoops, I forgot. Sorry, Richard.
“I have never attacked Richard Witty directly, and this is the first (and hopefully last) time. ”
You’re joking right?
Israel seized the chance to make big, positive, PR in Haiti, and they’ve won their gamble in spades. They’ve rescued a baby and got that very minor exploit publicised worldwide.
They even ensured Medecins sans Frontieres couldn’t get in before them (and still can’t – see: link to msf.org
Only the US (who took over the airport, and now coordinates landings) could have arranged that.
Katrina II ? – sure.
No amount of PR work is going to save Israel from where its going.
Zionists seriously think they can just get away with occupation, apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, and good old fashioned massacres with good PR work.
I’m sorry but its this kind of retarded thinking that will be the end of the Zionist project in Palestine.
Like I said, the Zionists are their own worst enemy.
Before long, they will be attacking Gaza or Southern Lebanon and whatever PR they’ve acrued from this will be gone.
Blackwater, and probably another few mercenary groups, will be licking their lips at the Haiti opportunity, and are almost certainly there already.
Blackwater’s new name, Xe, is derived from the Greek Chi (a symbol of Christ) and e for evangelism. Mercenary crusaders (just like the good old days of Richard the Lionheart) are in at the feast.
The question is: when they get to Palestine, will they massacre Jews like they did the first time round?
To my knowledge, only Amy Goodman went down to Haiti and told the unvarnished truth.
link to democracynow.org
She mentions that Cuban doctors and Venezuelans had gotten to Haiti first, had set up their hospital outside the destroyed Presidential Palace and were providing assistance, all while the American military machine was still bogged down at the airport worrying about so-called “security”. Typical bumbling gov’ment regulations; we’re probably spending 1000x what the Cubans are spending to help the same number of people all because individual freedom has been stamped out of the American military/corporate approach: we’ve become the Communists we fought to defeat.
Amy is a Jewish woman driving around in neighborhoods that our military is afraid to enter: she’s an example of the old traditional Jewish social activism (an ideal which today’s war-monger Jews and Israel-apologists sadly lack).
Good that the Cubans and Venezuelans offered to help. Good that the Americans offered to help.
People working together to help is one of the great constructors of peace in fact.
I, like Bradley Burston in an article today, regard the accusation that Israelis and Zionists are just funding and doing aid for PR, to be insulting.
I’m glad that Phil positively encouraged people to contribute to American Jewish World Service, which is definitely Jewish and likely led by Zionists, but also committed over the long-term for genuine aid and social service.
A few years ago, after the tsunami, my wife and I organized a prominent concert locally for tsunami relief through the AJWS, which went primarily to Islamic communities. A good thing.
Another group in Haiti that has in the past done service as PR, but still does real service in fact is the Ananda Marga Universal Relief Team (AMURT). link to amurt.net
“‘I, like Bradley Burston in an article today, regard the accusation that Israelis and Zionists are just funding and doing aid for PR, to be insulting.”‘
You are insutled by any and all criticism of Israel. If Israel were not doing AID for PR, they wouldn’t be making it into a PR stunt.
BTW Witty, what is insulting is when you spread your Hasbra propaganda and continue to repreat lies, even when you have been repeatedly corrected and proven wrong.
Dick will ignore books, reports, first-hand experiences, facts, etc. and basically any and all refutations of his perspective and ideology.
Dick, you are a liar and have ZERO credibility.
Yes, aren’t these Hasbrats remarkable, the way they casually dismiss any and all criticism of Israel from the UN, NRW, Haaretz ,B’Tselem, the Geneva Conventinos and even their own legal experts. No actual rebuttal is made, just vague statements about sraw dogs and the like.
I particulalry loved how YMedad said in this iontervview that B’Tselem was a radical, extremist, far left organisation. No effrot to refute their evidence and certainly no effort to explain what makes them radical, extremist and far left.
Also? I think in a way, Witty posting here is how he gets off. He definitely goes out of his way to stroke his ego, and I suspect the dog and pony show is a charade intended to “prove” how much smarter he is than the rest of us, and power of that sort can often be useful for generating arousal.
In short, he’s a wanker.
Well, he may be arousing himself, but he damn-sure ain’t arousing anyone to support his views. Of course, first they would have to know what his views actually are, and like you said, it can take a while.
And he keeps on playing on that “intimate friend of the Weiss’” angle, and I can’t help but notice that Phil seems to just flat refuse to answer him.
Richard Witty, can you confirm that you contributed funds to Mondoweiss when Phil and Adam conducted the fundraising drive last month? If not, you’ve contributing less than zero to this site.
Oh, I’m sure he made a generous donation. Don’t you remember his vague threat that Phil’s writing would “threaten his funding base”?
I’m sure Witty figgered (as he as expressed, many times) as soon as Phil looked into the facts, he would return solidly to the Zionist camp.
Which is just another example of how Zionists confuse politics with religion. When you contribute to a religion, you always get your money’s worth. With political causes, hell, you never know.
You should ask for your money back, Richard, so you can send it to Haiti.
It might be apt to compare pictures of two babies:
link to d.yimg.com
In this photo provided by Joe Shalmoni, a newborn Haitian baby lies in an incubator at the Israel Defense Forces operational field hospital in Port-au-Prince, Haiti on Wednesday Jan. 20, 2010.
But Kaukab al Dayah got very different treatment in Gaza:
link to 1.bp.blogspot.com
Kaukab al Dayah
Thanks for giving her name. There are too many unnamed victims in Palestine
Phil: The title is fantastic lol. I am going to try to bring up the “Zionization of Haiti aid” in my zionist teacher’s class tomorrow during current events.
link to haaretz.com
Bashing Israel for saving Haitians
Bradley Burston (another liberal Haaretz commentator)
I’d like to say a word of honor and thanks and, yes, pride for the Israelis, paramedics, physicians, nurses, midwives, and medical imaging technicians, who went to Haiti to save lives.
That’s it.
I believe that they are people, individuals, who went there to save limbs from gangrene and amputation, stanch internal bleeding, relieve crushing pain. To deliver babies. To risk their lives, using jackhammers and hydraulics and their hands to make crawl spaces under tons of concrete and silt, going in themselves to pull children and adults to safety.
link to nytimes.com
Haitians and Hasidim Find Common Cause
Spring Valley Village Hall sits in a drab strip mall along with Angel Nails, the Family Dollar discount store, the Caribbean Village restaurant and other modest businesses in this Rockland County village, which has a mix of Hasidic and other Orthodox Jews, Latinos and blacks. Haitians make up roughly half the population of more than 25,000.
Dick Witty,
Are you also proud of the Arab countries which are participating in the Humanitarian Aid?
i have the pleasure to announce you that following Arab Countries are participating in the Humanitarian Aid in Haiti:
Turkey
Morocco
Indonesia
Iran
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Malaysia
Pakistan
Qatar
United Arab Emirates
source: link to en.wikipedia.org
Dick Witty, what a liar you are!!!
Its wonderful that they are participating in the aid and relief effort. More power to them, even for PR.
Witty so how can you explain the media coverage to the Israeli Aid and not the same coverage to the other countries?
I read that Gaza had sent aid. Also more power to them.
The coming together in compassion for another is what cuts through animosities.
“‘I read that Gaza had sent aid. Also more power to them.”‘
It makes you wonder how they got the aid out with the illegal blockade in place.
Yes, more power to them, but let them starve and die quietly right Witty? Have o posted a retraction about your suggestion that the Arab states were MIA in Haiti?
Perhaps you misunderstood a question for an answer.
According to the LA Times a few days ago, there were contributions (including supplies, hospitals and personnel) from Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Morocco, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran and Turkey. I’m sure there were others too. Just a lot less horn-tooting than the Israelis.
Witty, you never answer the questions we address you? why you run out of arguments.
Qatar had a C-17 on the ground in Haiti last week with 50 tonnes of medical and other disaster relief a day before Israel did. It sent doctors and rescue teams, and set up a field hospital.
link to gulf-times.com
The list above does not include Syria.
Cheap how loudly you announce your AID Zionists, it is very smelly!
Apart from the glaring hypocrisy in sending relief halfway around the world, while actively starving and endangering millions at one’s own doorstep, I, Phil and ayone with any connection to even the most moderate of Zionists, have been receiving (and will undoubtedly recieve many more) e-mails praising Israel for its actions, denouncing the Arab and Muslim world for having done nothing for Haiti (a lie), denouncing the world for criticising Israel for anything (including Gaza), and personally denouncing Justice Godlstone (in shameful, insulting terms).
Prof. Donchin’s article confirms that this shameful and cynical hasbara op is not just the work of “bad apples” in cyberspace, but intentional government policy. In case anyone missed it, Yoel Donchin probably knows more about such rescue operations than anyone in Israel.
So please. Enough crocodile tears.
Thanks, Shmuel. As you know, ‘the rich Arabs don’t help poor countries’ is very old hasbara, dating back to the ’70s or maybe even earlier. The New Internationalist pointed out back then that Saudi Arabia actually gave a great deal of foreign aid, a higher percentage of its GNP than many of not all Western countries. The New Internationalist acknowledged that most of it did go to Muslim nations, like Pakistan, but of course the Saudis were not the first to use aid as a political/religious foreign policy tool.
It was interesting to see that one of Richard’s first reactions to the Haiti earthquake was to point out Israel’s generosity, while simultaneously raising a sly question about the Arabs.
If their government were not such a corrupt band of liars with regard to Palestine, their Haitian efforts might not be perceived as cynical. Change your behavior and the world will see you different. They’re such idiots. figure it out.
Here’s the short URL for aparsian’s wikipedia list of donors: link to z.pe
Pass it around.
Witty
I believe that they are people, individuals, who went there to save limbs from gangrene and amputation, stanch internal bleeding, relieve crushing pain. To deliver babies. To risk their lives, using jackhammers and hydraulics and their hands to make crawl spaces under tons of concrete and silt, going in themselves to pull children and adults to safety.
Witty, they are not people, individuals, but a ready-organised Israeli military team, ready and sitting, waiting for an opportunity to gain good PR from some disaster somewhere. They are all employed by the IDF
They know they will have to undertake all the heroic tasks you enumerate, but after 3 weeks they will be out of it, and sitting back at home waiting for the next emergency call to make some more hasbara PR.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/nyregion/21towns.html?hp
Haitians and Hasidim Find Common Cause
If you, Witty, actually read that, you would have realised that Jewish Hasidim in that town have not suspended their normal attitudes to niggers, nor have made any donations to a far-away nigger cause.
Apologies to whoever is offended by the term ‘nigger’. I use it intentionally as a term for a ‘no-account-black-guy’ as used by people who are obviously racially superior (like Hasidim, openly, and Ashkenazim who are a bit more subtle).
Actually, I suggest that someone keep a list of when each country pulls its aid teams.
It might be amusing to look at in a couple of months.
Ael: Actually, I suggest that someone keep a list of when each country pulls its aid teams.
That information is generally harder to come by, because slinking away with one’s tail between one’s legs is not the kind of thing one tends to announce at a press conference.
The first paragraphs that you are responding to are the words of Bradley Burston, an Haaretz columnist. The link was included in the post.
I agree with his words, though noting that he apparently has more direct knowledge of the specific aid and people than I do.
He, and many others, regard it as mean (literally) to distract attention from the charity towards the condemnatory political interpretation.
Social service contains an element of PR. The most charitable don’t, but who is that consistently. Hamas conducted social service partially as genuine social service to their community (for which they were lauded and even supported, and even by Israel), and partially as means to develop street credibility to distinguish themselves for political dominance on the Palestinian, Arab and Islamic street.
Ananda Marga, a yoga group that I was active in for two decades, similarly conducted and conducts sincere social service, that also serves as PR, as do most religious service groups (mix of genuine social service and PR).
It is what it is.
Better that the good occur, that the motive for genuine social service be encouraged.
Niggers in Israel
Try and take time to read this report:
link to spinner.cofc.edu
which reveals the full hypocrisy of using the ‘Law of Return’ to stuff that piddling little Levantine country with as many Jews as they could find, anywhere.
Fox Business News channel now has a panel of 3 pundits praising Israel to the sky for its
exceptionally good work in Haiti; specifically dissed were the aid efforts of Iran and Saudi Arabia (US celebrities giving more aid)–and also dissing US aid efforts, especially in contrast with Israeli’s. This in the introduction context that Israel is good and does not warrant its bad image in the world; the USA does not either.
Speaking of Richard Silverstein.
link to zimbio.com
Richard Silverstein Gets Nailed inventing False Comments on his Own Blog Site in name of “Z Street” and others.
Stopped reading there.
Baruch, here is a gift for you link to youtube.com
Baruch, your “source” claims:
The most common name of anyone posting a comment on Richard Silverstein’s pro-Nazi pro-terrorism blog “Tikun Olam” is “Hasbara Buster.” Invariably “Hasbara Buster” leaves sycophantic comments praising Dickie as the best thing to come along since the Sheikh Yassin and Ahmed Tibi.
Well, we have just learned that “Hasbara Buster” is none other than Little Dickie Silverstein himself.
So Richard Silverstein has created an alternative blog pretending to be an Argentinian, and has even learned Spanish to run a Spanish-language blog as well to make the deception more realistic.
OK, I’ve been outed. Let’s leave the closet once and for all. I’m Richard Silverstein and I make up the comments on my own blog.
For the sake of completeness, I must disclose I’m also Phil Weiss, and Tony Greenstein, and Gabriel Ash, and, while we’re at it, George Galloway.
Can anyone recommend a good shrink.
HB: OK, I’ve been outed. Let’s leave the closet once and for all. I’m Richard Silverstein and I make up the comments on my own blog.
For the sake of completeness, I must disclose I’m also Phil Weiss, and Tony Greenstein, and Gabriel Ash, and, while we’re at it, George Galloway.
I knew it! Adding all those local details about Rosario, Seattle, London, New York, etc. was a stroke of genius (as was the Spanish bit). Your hatred of Israel and Jews must be incredibly powerful to get you to go to all this effort. I for one am impressed. Of course if you are Phil Weiss (and Adam Horowitz?), then you probably make up all the comments on this blog (like you do at Tikun Olam), in which case I am really you. But then again, so is Baruch Rosen. My (your?) head hurts. I think I’ll go have a lie-down.
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