Are we witnessing the stirrings of a new, large-scale Israeli military operation? Haaretz today reports that “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed Wednesday that the Israel Defense Forces would continue to use ‘firm determination and assaults’ on Gaza…[Netanyahu said:] ‘It could take the form of exchanges of fire, it could continue for a particular length of time.’”
UPDATE (1:40 PM EST): The New York Times is reporting on a statement put out by Defense Minister Ehud Barak in the aftermath of today's deadly bombing in Jerusalem. From the Times: "Israel held Hamas responsible for Wednesday’s rocket attacks, and added that 'responsibility comes with a price.' The Israeli army will 'continue to act to protect citizens of the state and to carry out preventive actions' along the Gaza border, he added. 'There will be ups and downs. It will not be over by tomorrow, but we are determined to restore security and calm.'"
Indeed, the stars seem to be aligning for another brutal Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip two years after “Operation Cast Lead” killed some 1,400 Palestinians, the vast majority of them civilians, and completely destroyed 3,000 homes in what Judge Richard Goldstone termed a “deliberately disproportionate attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population.”
Eerie parallels between the period leading up to “Cast Lead” and the situation now exist, and there’s nothing to stop Israel from launching another assault, given that the United States has sent the world the message that Israeli war crimes will go unpunished.
First, the parallels:
In the months leading up to the 2008-09 assault on Gaza, a tenuous truce held between Hamas and Israel as Hamas stopped firing rockets at Israeli communities and attempted to reign in other armed groups in Gaza from doing so. An August 2008 WikiLeaks cable that describes a visit by Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak to Egypt reports:
Regarding the Tahdiya ["calm" in Arabic], Hacham said Barak stressed that while it was not permanent, for the time being it was holding. There have been a number of violations of the ceasefire on the Gaza side, but Palestinian factions other than Hamas were responsible. Hacham said the Israelis assess that Hamas is making a serious effort to convince the other factions not to launch rockets or mortars. Israel remains concerned by Hamas’ ongoing efforts to use the Tahdiya to increase their strength, and at some point, military action will have to be put back on the table. The Israelis reluctantly admit that the Tahdiya has served to further consolidate Hamas’ grip on Gaza, but it has brought a large measure of peace and quiet to Israeli communities near Gaza.
Despite this “peace,” Israel decisively broke the truce on November 4, 2008 when they raided Gaza and killed six members of Hamas, leading to an increase in Hamas and other armed groups’ rocket attacks on Israel. According to a January 2009 report by investigative journalist Gareth Porter, Israel rejected a Hamas ceasefire offer in December 2008.
After the assault ended in January 2009, a tenuous lull, punctuated by sporadic violence on the Gaza-Israel border, has held. In January 2011, Hamas again attempted to reign in other armed groups from firing at Israeli communities.
But now this lull seems to be breaking down. The Israeli daily Haaretz reports on what has occurred in the last week:
The current tensions began exactly a week ago when Israel launched an air attack on a Hamas base in the ruins of the settlement of Netzarim, killing two Hamas men. That attack came in response to a Qassam fired from Gaza that landed in an open area. Hamas then responded with a barrage of 50 mortars on communities south of the Gaza Strip.
Israeli attacks on Gaza over the last few days have left eight people dead, including five civilians, and another twelve civilians have been wounded. The air strikes came after Hamas offered a truce--events that bear a striking resemblance to what occurred in the run-up to “Operation Cast Lead.”
What makes a renewed assault seem more possible is the fact that strident warnings are coming from Israeli leaders. Tzipi Livni, the head of the opposition party Kadima and who was the foreign minister during the 08-09 Gaza assault, recently said that “the right way to contend with [the recent rocket attacks] is through force, as Israel did during Operation Cast Lead and after it.” Both the Vice Premier and and the culture minister have voiced similar warnings.
The frightening warnings and attacks on Gazan civilians could stop if the international community would pressure Israel. But what’s to stop Israel if they have U.S.-guaranteed impunity? The Goldstone report recommended that proceedings against Israelis and Palestinians who committed war crimes occur if domestic systems do not uphold international law. No high-level officials, on the Palestinian or Israeli side, have been held accountable. The U.S. has ensured that Israeli leaders who committed war crimes will get off free.
A promise of law is that the deterrent effect of punishment may prevent future crimes. That promise goes out the window if there is no punishment–exactly what happened after the publication of the Goldstone report.
Alex Kane blogs on Israel/Palestine and Islamophobia in the U.S. at alexbkane.wordpress.com, where this post originally appeared. Follow him on Twitter @alexbkane.
Terrorist bombing in Jerusalem. Something is going to happen.
If Hamas takes responsibility, Cast Lead II.
The ordinary (Jewish) people of Israel don’t need another Cast Lead. They need a plan to dismantle YESHA and ensure Israel’s future in the region. Israel only ratchets up the neighbours’ hatred every time it lashes out at Gaza which after all is only a sink in which to hold all of the Arab goys that weren’t wanted in Israel’s shiny Jewish state back in 1948.
I’ll see you Cast Lead 2 and raise you BDS.
From 2009- Mossad Agent caught planting ‘fake’ bomb in Jerusalem
Hu Bris “From 2009- Mossad Agent caught planting ‘fake’ bomb in Jerusalem”
Yep, as Jeff Gates and many others have noted, their agent provocateur model of warfare has a limited repertoire.
I think/ hope Israel is just sabre rattling at the moment. It would be madness to launch a full scale attack on Gaza now that Egypt is no longer run by Hosni.
If Israel tries a repeat of Cast Lead it will just drive another wedge between Israel and the rest of the OECD. The YESHA project is building up into a massive disaster.
There is nothing to stop Israel delegitimising itself further.
“The air strikes came after Hamas offered a truce”
The airstrikes came after 56 rockets and mortars were fired at Israeli civilians.
The airstrikes came after 56 rockets and mortars were fired at Israeli civilians.
And the rockets were in retaliation for Israeli offensive military actions.
I can provide the links if necessary, but I think everyone knows the script by now:
- Israel has the right to “belligerent reprisals”, even if it “started it”; and
- “the PRESENT is what matters”.
(Funny how Palestinians are never entitled to reprisals regardless of whether they, or Israel, “started it”.)
Something happens to the spacetime continuum over there. The Palestinians always initiate the violence even if the Israelis shoot first.
That’s the beauty of pre-emptive defense. The Israelis ‘knew’ that the Palestinanians were about to act, so they got their pretaliation in first.
Israel’s batterings of Gaza are strategically useless. They never answer the question of what Israel is going to do with Gaza the day after the bombing stops. It’s like the smoker who has given up so many times but can’t resist just one more cigarette this time.
Gaza is the picture to Israel’s Dorian Gray.
Those are “feel good” operations, a kind of morbid circus. As far as “violated space-time continuum” is concerned, Israeli consensus is that Hamas is ALWAYS a legitimate target.
The airstrikes came after 56 rockets and mortars were fired at Israeli civilians.
the 56 rockets sat afternoon came after Israeli invaded sat morn and killed 2 hamas militia israel claimed were going to attack.
amend:
The mortars came after Iatael bombed a Hsmad camp in Gaza on the 16th, killing 2.
Amira Hass used a peculiar phrase in her most recent article that I to see what people thought of it. The phrase is “The fly’s right to play Ping-Pong with the elephant”, referring to the argument of the Palestinians’ right to respond to attacks.
The article is here:
link to haaretz.com
Reminder: Since 1 Jan 2008, more than 2,100 Palestinians and approximately 60 Israelis have died in conflict-related violence.
Citizen,
I believe the phrase is critical of the Palestinians, not Israel.
You mean they need their own AIPAC here in the USA, right? Their own Uncle Sam to give them their allowance?
Israel has watched as SA sent in troops to Bahrain to help the Sunni regime deal with Bahrain Shia civilian protesters. The US just said both sides should play nice. After the US dissed the Goldstone Report, and Rice’s UN veto regarding the settlements, and this even in Bahrain, and while Uncle Sam is now engaged in war against 3 Arab regimes, and considering who knows the pending tilt of the new Tunisian and Egyptian PTB, or the ones yet to emerge in Libya, why not take another big bite out of the Palestinians before someone big riding on the tide of the Arab Revolution notices and throws some real weight behind BDS? This mindset fits Israel to a T.
Spot on analysis, citizen.
“why not take another big bite out of the Palestinians before someone big riding on the tide of the Arab Revolution notices and throws some real weight behind BDS? ”
Like that’s really going to solve Israel’s demographic challenge.
I’m waiting for Bibi’s Bar Ilan II speech anyway :)
So, you’re actually brain dead, right? Is there any chance you can upload a doctor’s report on your condition? Obviously you can’t blame this on legal blindness, so.
The present is the primary concern, not Cast Lead. That is past.
In the present, BOTH sides are escalating, Israel and Hamas (and other factions).
Who will listen? That is who to talk to. Will Hamas listen if pro-Palestinian solidarity say “you are walking into suicide and committing war crimes. Please please stop”?
Will Israel listen?
They both say publicly that it does not serve their interests in the slightest for there to be war.
It is a responsibility of dissent to not urge Gazan factions to undertake actions that will put civilians at risk.
>> eljay March 23, 2011 at 11:31 am
>> … everyone knows the script by now:
>> – “the PRESENT is what matters”.
>> Richard Witty March 23, 2011 at 12:24 pm
>> The present is the primary concern …
Told you! :-)
>> It is a responsibility of dissent to not urge Gazan factions to undertake actions that will put civilians at risk.
Given that Israel’s ON-GOING aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder comprise actions that put civilians at risk – on BOTH sides, no less – it is an even greater responsibility of dissent to insist that Israel halt all of its ON-GOING aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder immediately, completely and forever. Israel is capable of doing this if it chooses to.
Witty’s The present is the primary concern, not Cast Lead. That is past.”
The Israelis use their past as the reason for everything they do*:
1. It’s the reason why Israel took land (punishingly) from another people in the first place.
2. It’s the reason why they lay claim to all the land to the Jordan River and beyond.
3. It’s the reason why they engaged in the 1967 war.
4. It’s the reason why they continue with an occupation that ignores UN Resolutions against it.
5. It’s the reason why they claim entitlement to US tax dollars for its existence.
6. It’s the reason why they dumped materiel and white phosphorous on the occupied, which international law demands they protect.
7. It’s the reason why their security politics and defense/security businesses have infested North America, and are destroying the fabric of our society.
8. It’s the reason they are dropping bombs on, and terrorizing, Gaza this month.
Don’t you dare slough it off on the Gazans, or mouth high-handed inanities about guarding against Hamas (the elected government) putting Gazan civilians at risk.
___________________
* Or, as someone wisely pointed out here yesterday, why is it that history only starts when it’s convenient for Israelis. Their past.
MRW, well said! Witty is the very embodiment of filtering his perceptions through the Jewish version of the PAST–and here he is saying we should only look at the moment now! Israel’s very existence was and is justified to this very day on the pre-1948 past. Don’t the Palestinian people also have a past? And shouldn’t they fear the present?
And the future too–especially since Witty lives in his imagined feared future where the 97% of non-Jewish Americans will jump on him when he’s out for a stroll and beat the crap out of him just for taking up space on the public sidewalk?
Mooser: I warned you about this a couple of days ago!! Here’s what Richard says above,
“It is a responsibility of dissent to not urge Gazan factions to undertake actions that will put civilians at risk.”
Richard is on to you, Mooser!! You’ve been using your back channels to the Gaza open-air prison to encourage “Gazan factions.” Please ponder what Richard says here, and stop it.
One mystery remains: Richard encourages “dissent” to speak to our supposed allies, “Gazan factions.” But he won’t take the time to go over to the Haaretz site and try to make the “better argument” to his supposed allies, the Israeli Jewish voting public. Instead, he wastes his time with us — an average of 14 comments a day.
Don’t look at me, I haven’t learned anything from history. I’m bound to repeat everything, the first time as farce, the second time as a joke everybody’s already heard.
Any way, Richard is not obligated to make the better argument, he’s already made the investment. “War is good business! Invest….”
The present is the primary concern, not Cast Lead. That is past.
Israel is about nothing other than the past. How else does one justify Erez Israel or the tramps in Hebron?
But civil war is about stimuli to anger.
If you have two people in a room about to kill each other, better that you cool the vibe down.
Really? So you disagree with the American Civil War, Witty, and what the US fought for when we fought for that? God, you’re so transparently segregationist.
>> If you have two people in a room about to kill each other, better that you cool the vibe down.
That sounds right. Except, in your interpretation of it, you let the Israeli guy punch the Palestinian guy in the head a couple more times and then you tell the Palestinian guy “the PRESENT is what matters”.
Oh, and you continually gloss over the fact that the Israeli guy is in the Palestinian guy’s neighbourhood, engaging in ON-GOING aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder of the Palestinian guy’s community, as though both parties are on equal footing.
…better that you cool the vibe down.
Assuming of course that its not one of those times where it is “necessary” to hold your nose and let others do what you could not.
“If you have two people in a room about to kill each other, better that you cool the vibe down.”
Ah, the good ol’ equvalency hasbara! He always goes for that.
No witty, what if you have a well-armed state, bombing the people of occupied territory. Wouldn’t that be a better analogy?
Right, Witty, and as well, better not to keep feeding the one while starving the other.
Could a U.S. veto of a Security Council resolution during a new Cast Lead be the last straw that leads the UN General Assembly to pass a binding resolution under “Uniting for Peace”?
I think that there will be ‘retaliations’ but I’m sceptical about major attacks at the moment, since the price in reputation has become so high. The retaliations, every one horrible of course, will never stop until there is a final settlement.
“Eerie parallels between the period leading up to “Cast Lead” and the situation now exist, and there’s nothing to stop Israel from launching another assault, given that the United States has sent the world the message that Israeli war crimes will go unpunished.”
Even though the question keeps coming up about why is the UN coalition attacking Libya for Gaddafi’s “massacres” (how many people have been killed by Gaddafi?) and not going into the Sudan, West Bank etc. This question is being repeated everywhere. The other day Sat March 19th during the open phone segment on C-Spans Washington Journal this issue and question was brought up three times. Although that open phone segment is not available at their site. Sent this comment and question into Washington Journal:
“To Producers of Washington Journal.
I have noticed that the way you post segments of Washington Journal has changed. One used to be able to go to your archives and access the program in order. The whole show with the open phone segment and then the guest on the program in order. Now there are times when the open phones segment is not available at your site. Especially when questions or comments about the Israeli Palestinian issue come up. I went to your archives for Sat Mar. 19th Washington Journal and the open phone segment is not available. There were three callers who brought up the I/P conflict and questions about why the US and the UN have not gone into help the Palestinians yet have gone into Libya and the contradictions with that. That segment is not available.
I noticed this at one other point just awhile back when callers had called in brought up the I/P conflict during open phones. When I went to your archives (will find that date in my notes) to find that segment of the program…it was not available.
Can you tell me how to access the open phone segment of the Mar 19th, 2011 Washington Journal program. The 7:oo am to 7:45 segment ? Odd that it is not available.
Also can you tell me why you have set your program archives up so differently than it had been before? Again it used to be in order with the open phones segment first and then each consecutive guest in order. Or you could just click and watch the whole show. Now sometimes the open phones is available and the guest are not in order.
Can you explain?”
———————————————————————-
I really think the editing over at Washington Journal has changed the last several years
I watch WJ too. Please let us know if you get a response from them.
Rachel Maddow’s program was especially interesting last evening. Worth the listen. Really great program
Rachel mentioned the West Bank on her program last night. Her program was especially good last night. Focused on Obama attempting to challenge the narrative in the Arab world. She mentions the West Bank at 8 minutes 57 seconds. 8:57 during the first segment of her program “kids in Cairo or in Bengazi or the WEST BANK get the Al Queda recruitment pitch”
Anyone else taken by how many times we are hearing Gaddafi’s actions described as “massacres…slaughters” You know how these same people (Senator Kerry, Clinton etc ) describe the deaths, injuries in Iraq as “collateral damage” And how did Israel and the U.S. describe the “slaughter…massacre” in the Gaza?
Self defense, necessary etc
Last night I heard Chris Matthews describe Gaddafi’s actions as a “small holocaust” WTF?
So, Kathleen, you say Maddow’s “kids in Cairo or in Bengazi or the WEST BANK get the Al Queda recruitment pitch” shows a ‘good’ program? Not even the ‘Muslim Brotherhood’ showed up in these places. Now Maddow must turn to that even worse enemy to make a point.
Why to ‘challenge the narration’? Just support the right groups, and the ‘narration’ will take care of itself. Maddow only needs to show her position re I/P. Her interference with Egypt is dubious from word #1.
Really, anyone who has seen one hour of Al Jazeera this year knows more than Rachel does.
I though that Kathleen was being ironical by drawing attention to the fact that the only mention of the West Bank lasted half a second and even then managed to give the impression that the people there were barbarous and gullible. I think that K should stop watching RM – the pain must be getting unendurable.
Then, I’ll reread it with different glasses. And concede. :-)
“Israeli attacks on Gaza over the last few days have left eight people dead, including five civilians, and another twelve civilians have been wounded.
Bet NPR has not whispered about this
Palestinian attacks on Israel over the last few days have left at least six people dead with over 60 wounded and substantial property damage.
Palestinian attacks on Israel over the last few days have left at least six people dead
source?
Reuven’s just being his usual asshole self by making a deliberately vague statement so as to try and land a silly ‘gotcha!’ when you query it, Annie,
He means the 5 dead in Itamar and the one dead from bus bombing in Jerusalem.
It is however a FACT that not one shred of evidence has been put forward to justify blaming Palestinians for the deaths in Itamar,
#
#It is also a FACT that other Israelis are openly questioning the presumption that Palestinians are responsible for the bus-bombing,
None of that is of any concern to a one-track-minded racist troll like Reuven, though.
Racist trolls like Reuven seem to have a pathological desire to grab by the throat any opportunity to display their racism to all and sundry
He’s assuming that the settlers in Itamar were murdered by Palestinians. Instead of the Thai suspects who are being questioned. Invisible ninja Palestinians that can get over barbed wire barriers and past perimeter cameras unrecorded. The sixth would be the British woman who was killed by a bomb that was definitely not planted by a Mossad trainee.
Palestinian side (Hamas, whomever): stupid … the lack of suicide bombings, aggressive action bought them invaluable credibility and global goodwill and highlighted the thuggish brutality of the zionist regime
israel: makes the wrong decision every single time and will escalate because that’s all they know how to do – more innocents murdered, more children murdered, more lies, more hollow justifications, more cruelty, more arrogance, more soul-destroying evil
Surprise-surprise. Egypt’s MFA warned Israel against any military action in Gaza following the bus bombing. What next, the opening of Raffah? I think if Israel makes the stupid mistake of attacking Gaza, a million Egyptians would storm Raffah Crossing.
From Now Lebanon:
Egyptian FM warns Israel against attacks on Gaza
March 23, 2011
Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil al-Arabi on Wednesday urged Israel to exercise restraint and refrain from launching any attacks on Gaza after a bomb attack in Jerusalem killed one person.
Arabi called on Israel “to exercise restraint and warned it against rushing into military operations in Gaza which will only lead to more tension,” his spokesperson, Menha Bakhoum, said.
“Israel must not be given a pretext to pursue violence,” Arabi said, while voicing that Egypt’s policy “is firm in its rejection and condemnation of the targeting of civilians.”
-AFP/NOW Lebanon
radii,
Firstly the bombing in Jerusalem wasn’t a suicide bombing. Someone left a suitcase filled with explosives beside a telephone poll.
link to haaretz.com
Secondly we don’t know it was Hamas, more likely its the work of Islamic Jihad or one of its many offshoots. Hell it could have even been Fatah using their militant wing to cause trouble for Hamas. At this early stage you probably couldn’t even discount Hezbollah (though unlikely) or even an Al Qaeda cell.
Thirdly global goodwill doesn’t count for much when you are constantly under attack. Just yesterday 4 Palestinian civilians were killed, the reality of global goodwill is that people will say how much they support Palestine’s non-violent approach and do nothing else until the day Palestine is gone.
we don’t know it was Hamas, more likely its the work of Islamic Jihad or one of its many offshoots. Hell it could have even been Fatah using their militant wing to cause trouble for Hamas. At this early stage you probably couldn’t even discount Hezbollah (though unlikely) or even an Al Qaeda cell.
we don’t know it wasn’t a false flag operation either. remember everytime israel attacks it’s preferred narrative is a ‘reaction’/justification. an attack like this could not only bring israel’s society in full support of another gaza massacre but the support of US and rest of the global community as well. until someone or group take credit for this action israel has as much to ‘gain’ from it as anyone. don’t leave them out of your calculation.
Islamic Jihad has denied responsibility for the Jerusalem bombing.
you can always count on arutz sheva for fair and balanced reporting
Massive mortar attack. Cost: USD 50
Pinpoint Israeli response that unfortunately killed 4 children but they deserved it. Cost : USD 1 million
They were both mortar attacks seafoid, one came from a mortar launcher, one was a tank shell. who are you trying to fool here? are you saying it was a tomahawk cruise tankshell that was fired into gaza?
more throwing crap against the wall and seeing what sticks.
The false flag theory costs nothing and offers nothing but a way out of the complexity of the situation. False flag, nothing to measure except israel’s evil, nothing to figure except Israel’s evil, nothing to consider except how to defeat Israel’s evil. even if you only give the false flag 50%, why not set it aside and then try to move the discussion in an intelligent direction. This false flag stuff might deserve a mention, but then try to get on with a real discussion. Y’think?
The cost of the siege of Gaza is well over $365 million per annum, DBG, and you know it. Israel spends $ 11bn a year on the military and a big chunk of that goes into oppressing the Palestinians.
$1 million was on the low side.
I agree with WJ. The Lavon affair did happen, but in Cairo, not Israel itself. If any Israelis were ever found to be responsible for planting a bomb in their own country, the consequences would be catastrophic for their reputation.
I remember the great black photographer Peter Magubane cautioning me when I arrived in South Africa back in 1978: “Don’t exaggerate. Apartheid is bad enough without people trying to make it out to be worse than it is.”
I don’t know how any Israeli Jew or diaspora Israel supporting Jew can feel comfortable with the fact that 80% of Gazans living under Israeli occupation depend on international food aid. And you may not call it evil but it certainly isn’t kosher.
seafoid- You are right that any discussion of the Hamas-Israel equation without factoring in the specific facts of Gaza is less than honest. The impoverishment of Gaza, the isolation of Gaza, the percentage of refugees who live there, the smallness of the territory and the density of the population and the dependence on handouts shows Israel’s policies (others as well but primarily Israel’s) to be an utter failure on every level.
“Failure” is not the word your Prime Minister uses, WJ. To him, the “Gazan diet” has been a resounding success.
The problem isn’t that it’s a failure, WJ. The problem is that it’s a crime against humanity.
I agree with you James and with WJ–false flag theories should be taken with a grain of salt. Sure, keep in mind that they might happen and have happened in the past, but don’t take speculation about them seriously unless there is evidence.
I actually think it makes the case for the Palestinians look weaker if people continually harp on false flag theories–it implies that what has been attributed to the Palestinians is so terrible it cancels out the justice of their cause. It makes it seem like we have to show that this or that murder attributed to the Palestinians has to be debunked or else people will start thinking that the Israelis were right all along. Is there someone here who doesn’t know that some Palestinians really have committed cold-blooded murder of innocent civilians, sometimes children? Of course they have. Does that mean their cause is nullified? Of course it doesn’t. Does it mean the atrocities were justified? No.
I remember being naively astonished when I was younger and found out that Native Americans had committed some really gruesome atrocities after all-somehow I had thought that this had just been a bunch of white man’s lies. It was as though in order to recognize the terrible injustices done to Native Americans I had to pretend they had all been saints.
Its a good point.
“I remember being naively astonished when I was younger and found out that Native Americans had committed some really gruesome atrocities after all-somehow I had thought that this had just been a bunch of white man’s lies. It was as though in order to recognize the terrible injustices done to Native Americans I had to pretend they had all been saints.”
That light should also apply to your observations about Israel, that it is human.
Right, Witty, and don’t you forget the Aryan Brotherhood is human too, and David Duke & Co. And lots of slaveowners in the old South were human too, not to mention a whole lot of Afrikkaners and those GIs coming home you may have spit at back in the day, and, Witty, even those young US military recruiters you analogized to pedophiles preying on your lovely son before he escaped to Israel.
radii : “Palestinian side (Hamas, whomever): stupid … the lack of suicide bombings, aggressive action bought them invaluable credibility and global goodwill and highlighted the thuggish brutality of the zionist regime”
EXACTLY!
Dr Gonzo “radii, – Firstly the bombing in Jerusalem wasn’t a suicide bombing. Someone left a suitcase filled with explosives beside a telephone poll.
From 2009- Mossad Agent caught planting ‘fake’ bomb in Jerusalem
Would the racist morons that run Israel bomb their own people in order to help justify another massacre in Gaza?
this answer is an unequivocal ‘YES!’
They have done similar things in the past e.g. they bombed Jewish targets in Egypt- google “Lavon Affair”
And also in Iraq in the 1950′s
Eveland, Wilbur Crane (1980). Ropes of Sand, America’s Failure in the Middle East. W W Norton & Co Inc. p. 48.
from the bbc link:
there is something a little strange about this story. was the evacuation ‘drill’ also part of the planned ‘training operation’ too? if so one might think the police would have been informed of that. otherwise if was just a training for planting bombs why evacuate the place. more likely once it was outted the place was evacuated to get rid of the ‘fake bomb’ before it exploded.
Let me get this right: because of the Lavon affair and the alleged bombings in Iraq – both incidents in the early 1950s!! – you’ve come to the conclusion that Israel is bombing itself. Brilliant.
“Let me get this right: because of the Lavon affair and the alleged bombings in Iraq – both incidents in the early 1950s!! – you’ve come to the conclusion that Israel is bombing itself.”
Don’t Israelis and its supporters point to the “three no’s of Khartoum”, which happened not much later, for reaching conclusions about the Arab world?
Israel hasn’t behaved any differently, jon, over six full decades. Not one iota of deviation — assassinations, bulldozers, torture, ethnic cleansing. The one time there was one Israeli leader who deviated even slightly, you people assassinated him and then replaced him with the same old warmongers that have been ruling your country since you’ve basically been a country.
There’s no reason to assume Israeli behavior has changed, jon. Doesn’t matter if it’s been more than five years, or more than fifty.
It’s not a false flag. no way.
But there’s no harm in speculating, and it seems to drive the Zionists nuts, so why not.
I’m all for it.
“But there’s no harm in speculating, and it seems to drive the Zionists nuts, so why not.”
Hm, when you put it that way… Still, I think there are better ways to drive them nuts.
.., better ways to drive them nuts.
It’s not a drive. Its a short putt.
Here is another account that’s relevant. I am not saying I can verify its accuracy. But the fact that it exists is worthy of note and should be added to this thread.
Naeim Gildadi: Ben-Gurion’s Scandals: How the Haganah and the Mossad Eliminated Jews
Interview with the author on youtube can be seen here.
my mom is on the phone now with my uncle, one of her brothers in Gaza. he said they are waiting in fear as each missile strikes the city of Gaza.
i remember during Cast Lead all my uncles and cousins thought each missile was their last breath. the priest would pray with them. during Cast Lead they huddled together closely in their home and each missile strike was accompanied with fear that they were at their life’s end. prayers for mercy and survival were on their hearts and lips. so much like the story of Anne Frank huddled in fear yet the planners and military behind this terror so blind to the similarities.
i’m praying for you and your family lydda.
heart
Me too, Lydda. May Allah, God, the Great Spirit, keep them safe and sound.
Lydda, we will remember what you say here; we will do what we can to help you and your family, to share your suffering, to work for the end of it, for justice.
There is one variable in all this: China.
China is operating efficiently and effectively in sub-Saharan Africa. It is doing what the World Bank and the IMF do not do: treat the loaners fairly. As a country, China is a partner in building African infrastructure.
The arc from Morocco to Iraq (including Saudi Arabia) sees China as a fair trading partner, and certainly, as a gigantic purchaser of their oil, cotton, and food products. China’s economy is going through the roof. Ours is declining rapidly (which history will show can be laid directly at the feet of Rahm Emanuel, Alan Greenspan, Bob Rubin, Larry Summers, Phil Gramm, and Sandy Weill in the 1990s: they reengineered the basic economic structure of the USA for transnational corporations, and we will never, not ever, get it back…because the US population does not understand what it lost or gave up. One look at the list of Republican accomplishments since taking over in November should show you the vacancy of understanding of the dangers we’re in).
The 225-year American experiment is over, and the Arabs know it. Their street, as the misnomer goes, wants a good life. China is a better partner for that than the USA.
you would do well not to believe in the good intentions and actions of the Chinese. they operate no more benevolently than anybody else and they often operate with even less regard to worker safety and other good stuff.
Fuster, you display absolutely no understanding of what she just said.
thats a comfort to me, Mooser. I had the strange idea that the comment might be promoting the Chinese as fair and good trading partners in Africa instead of just more of the usual.
I love it how fuster treats truthful and accurate analysis as blind support. “WHAT?! No demonization of the Chinese? Commie! Commie!!”
I guess Zionists quite literally can’t accept factual data. Like, at all.
“I had the strange idea that the comment might be promoting the Chinese as fair and good trading partners in Africa instead of just more of the usual.”
Yup, like I said, you had no idea what she was talking about, and starting whining about the yellow peril.
You are one nice piece of work, fella.
It must be disappointing to you then to learn that China is Israel’s leading trading partner in Asia- that bilateral trade between the two countries has been steadily rising and that there has been substantial defense cooperation between the two.
We do know that Israel is courting China; it has always done so whenever its current host country begins to look weak. But unlike with France and the USA, Israel cannot count on manipulating any Chinese guilt about the Shoah or any of Jewish history for that matter. What’s the percentage of Jews living in China? And their place in China’s economic structure? China never even had the precedent of court jews, did it?
China has the power to do to the U.S. what Ike did to the UK/France/Israel coalition when he forced it to back down over Suez in 1956 by mounting a run on the pound sterling.
I’ve been wondering China it might do this over Libya. Doing it over Gaza is perhaps more probable.
I doubt that China cares a whit about Gaza. Nor do I think it has any more of a moral component to its foreign policy than the US does.
And I certainly don’t think it would cut its own financial throat by causing a run on the dollar since it holds approximately 2 trillion in dollar denominated notes.
Interesting that I’ve read elsewhere recently that the Israelis will be the ones turning to China.
Doesn’t China have a great interest in energy supplies?
Yes, and that’s why I suspect they will stay out of the area’s politics.
The US has a great interest in energy supplies as well, but its politicization of the mideast cuts off its nose to spite its face, so to speak–Iran for example.
China on the other hand will trade with anyone and everyone.
It’s not about who China cares about, it’s about whether China has an advantage to press.
That is the future in a nutshell.
The US is going on a diet for the long term.
China strives very hard not to be a variable in any of this, and Chinese strategists would probably see becoming such a variable as a failure of its foreign policy. China also has its own major economic and political challenges looming. For the ME countries, putting all (or most or many of) their eggs in a Chinese basket would risk repeating and amplifying previous historical errors.
Even if the US papers and pundits ignore what a new Cast Lead means, should the Israelis be stupid enough to do it (which they are doing piecemeal now), the European papers will not.
It will mean the thorough isolation of Israel in Europe, and I suspect, reintroduce anti-semitism there willingly and gladly. It will be an Israeli-created demise that no amount of hasbara can overcome in the Internet age.
Recently, when Susan Rice tried to explain her vote on the latest resolution regarding settlements, it was ludicrous.
She had not clear answer during her interview.
If the US ambassador cant explain it in one paragraph why they voted this way, why would anyone trust U S intentions?
link to youtube.com
Alex’s setup at the top is totally predictable, and leads to most of the comments being likewise. For a much more provocative analysis, please read Amira Hass’ article (which was linked to above, but got no reaction):
link to haaretz.com
Hass of course doesn’t assert any kind of “equivalence”, but she challenges the “left” to be maybe a tad more creative (and in the end, more practical, if it’s killing we want to help stop).
I agree with Amira Hass’s point–Hamas should not fire at Israel unless they want to give the Israelis another excuse to inflict massive war crimes on innocent Palestinians. I also agree with Alex Kane’s point–Israel violates truces with impunity and commits war crimes with impunity and when civilians die, the US only condemns the crimes of Palestinians.
Somehow you seem to think there’s a conflict between Kane’s post and Hass’s, but I don’t see it. Now if you wanted to criticize some specific comments in this thread, that’s fine, but you didn’t do that.
“Dozens of casualties in Jerusalem explosion: police”
(1) So much for Israel’s vaunted security. Jerusalem is 1/3 the size of Vegas.
(2) False flag anyone?
As far as I know, no group has claimed responsibility for the bombing yet.
Of course the Mossad doesn’t often brag, especially about false flag ops, so it’s possible we may never know who did it…
You people have an excuse for everything. I believe that is the crux of why the Palestinians have and will continue to be occupied. None of their supporters can ever accept reality. It is constant excuses, disinformation, and subterfuge.
MRW your two statements are about as contradictory as they get, first you are mocking Jerusalem for their lack of security, then you are saying it was a false flag. Your statement basically sums up your entire movement: speaking out of both sides of your mouth, constant excuses, the inability to take responsibility for anything.
Find any WMDs in Iraq yet?
heart you Chaos. the hilarious, witty and incisive comebacks are splendiferous.
Heh, thanks. It’s nice to be a ray of sunshine in a dark, morbid world.
” You people have an excuse for everything. I believe that is the crux of why the Palestinians have and will continue to be occupied”
Yes. Hebron is all Mooser’s fault.
Zionism, no responsibility for anything.
thanks, seafoid, I was worried about the spread of Mooserism but hadn’t realized it was already causing difficulties.
link to us.123rf.com
I’ll have you know my mail, e-mail and phone calls are running at a steady 63% positive. I also receive offers of marriage from elegible girls all over the world and access to some very exclusive money-making schemes. So don’t worry about me, jack, I’m all right!
“None of their supporters can ever accept reality. It is constant excuses, disinformation, and subterfuge. ”
I’m sure you won’t be surprised to learn that is exactly how Israel’s supporters seem to me.
“So much for Israel’s vaunted security. Jerusalem is 1/3 the size of Vegas.
(2) False flag anyone?”
No, not without actual evidence.
There’s a different point that could be made if we assume that the perpetrators of the recent attacks really are Palestinians. It seems that for all the talk of the Wall and the security cooperation between the PA and Israel (which involves a lot of human rights violations), probably the real reason there hasn’t been much in the way of terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians is that the Palestinians haven’t been trying, at least not on a large scale.
Lawrence of Cyberia made this point in a post about the Wall some time back–she showed that Palestinians cross or climb over the Wall all the time and if they wanted to launch terrorist attacks they could have done so.
Thinking rationally about it Israel would be crazy to invade. But since that has never stopped Israel in the past it could be likely.
Interesting news is that Egypt’s new foreign minister has warned Israel against any Gaza offensive.
link to af.reuters.com
Indeed any attack on Gaza in the middle of the Arabic revolutions would make an explosive situation even more dangerous. Let’s remember that the “Cast Lead” operation took place before Israel lost its alliance to Turkey, before Goldstone damaged its relations with the EU, before the flotilla massacre, before Mubarak lost power, before Hezbollah won political power in Lebanon. The regional dynamic now is a lot less favourable to Israel than in 2008.
Israel will be making a massive mistake going for a Cast Lead 2. But again Israel has made plenty of stupid mistakes in the past so who knows.
I continue to wonder whether a Cast Lead 2, followed by a U.S. veto blocking Security Council action, might be the straw that finally leads the UN General Assembly to adopt a binding resolution on its own under “Uniting for Peace”.
In all likelihood, Israel has had plans drawn up for an attack on Gaza(and other neighbors)for some time, and is only looking for the right time to act. There could be any sort of reason for an attack on Gaza. My own belief is that preserving the value of present and future nearby real estate developments would be a factor in the decision to attack. I’m sure that some in the Israeli leadership feel that since the Mideast is in turmoil, it would be a good time to attack since everyone is distracted and it isn’t clear who would have the right to speak for some nations in the area. On the other hand, if Israel attacks now, it might find itself grouped together with other oppressors in the region, such as Khadaffi. But I’m sure there is some effort to try to position Israel on the side of the pro-democracy movement, and Palestinians as anti-democracy forces(Israel=the only democracy in the Mideast. Palestinians=anti-semitic fanatics).
Well it would be nice to see the remotest interest in democracy on the part of Hamas. It has been suggested that Hamas wants to heat up the situation to prevent it from being engulfed in the fate of other tyrannical regimes in the region- most recently Syria.
on the one hand, the revolutions in the ME will force israel to take action now rather then later. on the other hand, they no long know what egypt’s response will be. egypt wont go to war for gaza, but i highly doubt theyd be willing to keep the border closed to refugees and arms this time so a new onslaught can take many uncertain directions. plus, it could help further destabilize regimes in the gulf and force a potential catastrophe for american allies.
itd be nice if someone said: if you touch gaza we’ll attack you. but no one has the balls to do that (yet)
Should Israel commit another massacre like it did in late 2008, the United States ought to be prepared to kiss all its client dictators goodbye.
Current revolts in Bahrain and Yemen will morph into region-wide mass protests dwarfing those seen in Egypt.
Those familiar with the January 2009 events will recall that Israel’s attack on Gaza mobilized millions throughout the region to take to the streets of various capitals.
In addition, the Palestinian man who blew himself up at a CIA compound in Afghanistan killing 7 CIA officers had told his relatives that he decided to attack US forces in Afghanistan after he saw the gut wrenching images of Gaza’s children being slaughtered by Israel.
Is the US willing to risk losing the acquiescent Saudi monarchy, for example?
In short, should the US approve another Israeli attack on Gaza, it should not be surprised by the consequences.
More than that, Avi. If Israel commits another massacre, and the US openly supports it (which we’ve done pretty much every single time), I think it will cost us our alliances with Western nations. I suspect it might even cost us NATO. The United States has been treating NATO like our own personal goon squad for too long, and indenturing it the Israeli blood sausage industry isn’t exactly going to be regarded as kosher by rest of the allies.
Maybe, but it always seems that Israel does what it wants and there are never any consequences…oh wait, I forgot: the kids at Princeton talked about not eating Sabra hummus for a few days and some diplomats clucked their tongues after the Gaza flotilla was attacked. If it will help some Israeli politician get reelected, Israel will turn off the lights on Gaza and start bombing. Unfortunately, the only thing that will stop further all out assaults on Gaza is if Israel suffers high casualties and an election is lost.
Bravo,
Nasrallah categorically and logistically supports the Gazans. He has promised to defend the Palestinians in the event of a regional war breaking out. That’s what he said after cast lead numero uno.
And now that the world has the example of Saudi and UAE troops ‘interfering/occupying’ Bahrain, as well as the imperial western countries having this week stepped in to help the “people” of Libya, well… Hizbollah too now has more ‘room’ to maneuver and help Gazans if they’re under attack and fearing another civilian massacre.
If israel wants to this weekend ‘test’ the regional waters with another cast lead numbero duo, the hizb is waiting, ready and willing to boil israel’s big toe off and the Egyptians aren’t exactly gonna be keeping their borders closed if a massacre’s about to happen either.
Since the ‘Arab Spring’ occurred some two months ago now, all of israel’s millitary strategies have had to be shredded and flushed down the toilet.
Yeah they still have the bigger guns but they ain’t got a single cohesive military strategy configured yet, and they won’t have one for quite some time due to too many regional instabilities occurring simultaneously.
It’s not guaranteed now that a ‘limited israeli offensive’ on Gaza will be regionally containable.
Dont be so sure that the citizens of Lebanon are so enthusiastic about Nasrallah drawing them into another disastrous military misadventure. There were substantial demonstrations in Beirut recently against Hizbollah’s de fact takeover of the Lebanese government. If Assad falls this may fatally weaken Lebanese collaborators with the Syrian government who have been doing their best to suppress the ongoing investigation into the murder of Hariri.
Nasrallah has been in hiding since 2006- afraid of Israeli retaliation. As a result the Lebanese border has been more peaceful than it has been in the last 20 years.
Sure sure whatever dream-on-fabricate.
I can’t be bothered with your delusions today.
Or probably ever.
I’m so bored talking to people stuck in a 1939 time-wrap.
It seems to me that the Hamas’ escalation of their attacks is related to the revolutions in the Arab world, which have spread to Gaza itself. Recently there were popular demonstrations in Gaza and the West Bank, demanding an end to Palestinian disunity. In response Abu Mazen announced that he intends to go personally to Gaza to promote national reconciliation. Immediately afterwards came the barrage of mortars and rockets towards Israel’s civilians. It looks like nothing terrifies the Hamas more than a popular uprising against their regime, and in the interest of Palestinian unity. (OK, they’re also terrified by the prospect of the blockade being lifted.)