I have no doubt that Palestinians will be victorious, sooner than later

Officer points loaded weapon into face of Palestinian, Palestinian does not back down. 

More from Haaretz:

According to B’Tselem, a human rights organization that uploaded the video, on June 18 IDF forces came to arrest a youth from the village for allegedly throwing stones when his cousin stopped the IDF officer to try to prevent the arrest.

The video shows the IDF officer, a First Lieutenant, shouting and pushing the Palestinian man and then immediately cocking his loaded gun into the man’s face. When the man continued to fight with him, the IDF officer again pointed the gun at him.

Posted in Israel/Palestine

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  1. chet says:

    Notwithstanding that I am a huge Haaretz fan, it occasionally appears that its reporting has a tinge of IDF stenography to it.

    In this article, the Palestinian man is described as having “stopped” the IDF thug, connoting physical contact, while in fact none occurred – it appears he was verbally trying to get him to stop. Further: “…the man continued to fight” – again, no physical contact even with the IDF thug’s provocation – imagine what would have happened if the Palestinian man had laid hands on him!

    Quibbles, I know, but they are Haaretz’s choice of words.

    • Seham says:

      Chet, there is a lot of IDF stenography in a lot of Haaretz articles. To be honest I don’t think Haaretz does nearly enough to remind its readers on a daily basis that they are living in a country that is a colonialist apartheid regime oppressing millions. I see articles like this one to be a red herring video to tell the world that they are “mindful” of the crimes of the occupation. It’s not enough for me, not even close.

      • tree says:

        Chet, there is a lot of IDF stenography in a lot of Haaretz articles.

        Lawrence of Cyberia has done a series of posts on “liberal” Haaretz. Her latest one, from February of this year is here, with links to earlier ones.

        link to lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com

        and here’s an except from one in 2004:

        Ha’aretz is “liberal” in exactly the same way: it gives a platform to outstanding individuals who will challenge conventional wisdom on Israeli affairs in a way that the newspaper as a whole will not. Amira Hass and Gideon Levy regularly supply eyewitness accounts of the realities of Palestinian life under Israeli occupation that no U.S. newspaper would dare print for fear of the orchestrated outrage that would follow from so-called “friends of Israel”. Danny Rubinstein (on Palestinian affairs), Akiva Eldar (on the peace process) and Gideon Samets (on internal Israeli politics) also regularly report on their respective areas of expertise with a degree of nuance and understanding that defies the “you’re either with us or against us” school of reporting that U.S. newspaper readers have to put up with when it comes to Israel and Palestine. I’m sure I have quoted all of them at various times on this blog.

        There is one area of Ha’aretz’ reporting that I doubt I have ever relied on however, and that is their reporting of I.D.F. affairs.

        Too often, reports from Ha’aretz’ military analysts consist of an unquestioning repetition of unsubstantiated claims about Palestinian intentions and military capabilities, or an uncritical justification for I.D.F. actions with no analysis, no corroboration and no source except some unnamed, unspecified “military source”. If I wanted to read a press release justifying the I.D.F.’s latest “incursion” or “targetted killing”, or laying the groundwork for the next mass home-razing in Rafah, I could go to the I.D.F.’s homepage: I don’t need to have it regurgitated as “news” on the pages of Ha’aretz. Adding a correspondent’s name to the top of an I.D.F. press release and publishing it in a respected newspaper doesn’t suddenly turn propaganda into journalism.

        And here’s another post by Diane(L of C) in 2009 critiquing their reporting.

        First, quoting a Haaretz article:

        “Two Palestinians were lightly injured Friday following confrontations with settlers near Havat Gilad in the Samaria region.

        One of the Palestinians was hurt by rocks hurled at him and the other from an aerosol spray of a yet-to-be-determined nature.

        The spat broke out following a dispute over agricultural practices in the area.

        Samaria local council officials said that a group of about 25 Palestinians arrived around noon to the vicinity of Havat Gilad and began tending to lands that constitute part of the settlement’s fields.

        The officials also said that the settlement’s residents, accustomed to such provocative acts, preferred to avoid a direct conflict with the Palestinians and notified the IDF.

        The Palestinians assaulted the settlers, according to the Samaria council official, using rocks and pick-axes until IDF forces arrived 20 minutes later and dispersed the gathering.

        The officials said it was unclear how the Palestinians were injured since the settlers “never went near them.”

        The Samaria police has commenced investigating the incident, and Israel Police has reported that no arrests were made as of yet.

        The two Palestinians injured in the quarrel were evacuated from the scene for medial treatment in a Nablus hospital.”

        Then, after posting a long list of reports on the continual violence by Jewish settlers from the (illegal even according to Israel) settlement outpost of Havat Gilad against the Palestinian farmers of Jit, she concludes:

        So, now we can put this genteel “spat” into some kind of context, what can we say about Friday’s report in Ha’aretz? A few things that immediately come to mind are:

        1. This is not a “spat” or a “quarrel”, it’s almost certainly an assault – the latest in a series of well-documented assaults. Ha’aretz wouldn’t be calling it a “spat” or a “quarrel” if it were two Israelis hospitalized in the latest of a long series of attacks on some kibbutz by infiltrating Palestinians trying to force them off their farmland.

        2. Settler violence directed at Palestinian farmers with the intention of intimidating them off their land really isn’t accurately described as “a dispute over agricultural practices”.

        3. That farmland doesn’t “constitute part of the settlement’s fields”; illegal settlement outposts don’t have fields. They’re illegal; they don’t have anything except the right to go away.

        4. Palestinians farming land they legally own in spite of the illegal presence of Israeli settlers is not a “provocative act”, any more than Palestinian farmland that settlers plonk a trailer on becomes “part of the settlement’s fields”. A so-called professional journalist shouldn’t simply regurgitate these descriptions without comment. This is the ideological terminology of a Yesha press release, not a serious newspaper.

        5. On the one hand the incident reportedly began when “The Palestinians assaulted the settlers…using rocks and pick-axes”; on the other hand, the settlers don’t know how any Palestinians could have gotten hurt because the settlers “never went near them.” Well, if the settlers were never anywhere near them, how did the Palestinians assault them? How is that even possible? What’s the range of a pick-axe? Is Ha’aretz content simply to juxtapose whatever contradictory claims the settlers feed them, and call that reporting the news? It’s bad enough that Ha’aretz should dishonestly reduce the latest attack on the farmers of Jit to a he-said-she-said story of a spat between dueling “agricultural practices”; do we really have to put up with internal incoherence too?

        The really odd thing about the whole tone of this Orwellian report is that Ha’aretz knows very well the story of the long struggle by farmers in Jit and Far’ata against settlers trying to violently force them off their land, because the story’s already been covered in respected news outlets like … well … Ha’aretz! For example, here’s a feature it ran on the subject of Jewish Israelis who are so appalled by the repeated settler violence carried out on area farmers by settlers acting in the name of the Jewish state that they go to Jit every year to participate in the olive harvest, in the hope that their presence might deter the settlers from attacking the farmers and stealing their crops.

        link to lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com

        • lysias says:

          Aren’t Ha’aretz and all other Israeli newspapers under military censorship? That would affect how they can report on matters concerning the IDF.

      • radii says:

        remember, Haaretz is widely-read outside of israel – not within israel … and there is no mainstream journalistic organization that can work freely within israel’s “democracy” so facts have to trickle out through a black-market of bloggers and activists and journalists willing to take real risks … yet anyone who is really interested does indeed know that basic outlines of what is going on there and lots of specifics get out too … the wave is building and it will be within a year or two (maybe even September) when Palestinians assert themselves and israel is fully exposed to the world as the pariah murder regime it is

        • Citizen says:

          I’m reminded of that list of countries furnished the other day on MW that ranks countries according to their willingness to allow free speech–the US was ranked #20, England #19, and Israel #86, if memory serves.
          I think if they got more particular regarding free speech allowance and the I-P conflict, the US would rank at the very bottom of the list.

          So much for the mother of free speech, the USA…

      • I totally agree with this statement as well as the message of the article. That moment when the Palestinian man is not afraid to be shot tells you everything you need to know about the steadfastness of the Palestinian people and why they will win

    • Bumblebye says:

      Perhaps they have the “stenography” flavor from the fact they have to pass the censor! However, this same video plus two more of the same officer – in the last of which a Palestinian man has his hand deliberately broken – are on 972mag:
      link to 972mag.com
      And is this by the law center that went after Flotilla II in Greece? Watch the “Mission to Israel” video and then book your next hasbaraholiday!
      link to antonyloewenstein.com

  2. Dan Crowther says:

    Eventually, Israeli’s are gonna be faced with trained soldiers pointing their weapons back at them, and it wont be a hodge podge of militia type fighters, but a regular ,uniformed army – and their gonna get their clocks cleaned.

    In the words of Bart Scott ( someone has to be a Jets fan on this site) : “Cant Wait”

    • eee says:

      Boy, you know nothing about the IDF. But Dan, why don’t you and your buddies wear uniforms and come over? Or who did you have in mind that is going to “clean our clocks”? Some imaginary force riding unicorns?

      • Taxi says:

        Try hizbollah on for size eee – uhuh that’s what I thought: hiding under your (stolen) bed again.

      • Citizen says:

        The US Marines could clean the IDF’s clock easily. If the US quit giving Israel military stuff, it would be even more of a joke.

        • Let’s see, the Marines had one bombing against them in Lebanon and they took off. In Somalia, you had a bunch of ragtag beggars run you off. In Iran you failed miserably in your hostage rescue attempt (remember Israel and Entebbe) In Panama, you had to resort to disco music to flush out Noriega. In Grenada, you barely were able to take on 600 Cubans. It’s the Air Force and Cruise missles that wins battles for the US, and even then not always. American soldiers, marines, like to think of themselves as Rambo, but the reality says otherwise.

        • Shingo says:

          Let’s see, the Marines had one bombing against them in Lebanon and they took off.

          So would Israel had they lost more than 200 in a single hit. Israel called in quits in 2006 after losing 110.

          In Somalia, you had a bunch of ragtag beggars run you off.

          A bunch of ragtag beggars with weapons yes.

          remember Israel and Entebbe

          Remember Shalit and the 3 Israelis captured by Hezbollah?

          In Panama, you had to resort to disco music to flush out Noriega.

          In Lebanon, you caught the wrong Nasrallah.

          In Grenada, you barely were able to take on 600 Cubans.

          In Lebanon you got your buts kicked by a few thousand Hezbollah. TWICE!!

          American soldiers, marines, like to think of themselves as Rambo, but the reality says otherwise.

          Perhaps, but they would eat IDF nancy boys for breakfast.

          Let’s not forget that one retired and unarmed marine on the Mavi Marmara disarmed two Israel elite commandos.

        • Dan Crowther says:

          longliveisrael-

          true, reagan pulled the Marines out of Lebanon. imagine a right winger doing that today….
          The Marines in Somalia actually never got attacked- we wore black boots, the Army wore tan boots – The Somali’s actually had “standing orders” not to fire on the guys in black boots…..true story. And blackhawk down and such were all Army operations.
          The Iranian hostage rescue was actually Navy Seals, and it was helo crash, not Iranians giving it to Seals and Marines.

          You can dump on the American Military all you want, but I’d leave the Marine Corps alone, we’re a different breed of cat.

      • Daniel Rich says:

        I can give you 119 reasons as to why beating the crap out of women and murdering kids will eventually backfire link to mfa.gov.il

      • Dan Crowther says:

        eee,

        Ive actually helped to train the IDF. I’m a former US Marine that was stationed at 29 Palms California, and was part of a battalion that ran the combined arms ranges. pilots, tank and artillery commanders from several countries ( including Israel) came through there….Im not taking credit for any command experience, but we certainly showed folks how to use and do stuff….. So, there.

        But dont worry eee, im not much for uniforms anymore – and neither are most of my friends.

        semper fidelis,

        Dan

        • Shingo says:

          Fascinating Dan,

          Out of curiosity, when you were referring to Israelis facing trained soldiers pointing their weapons back at them, who were you referring to?

        • Dan Crowther says:

          Well, I was thinking of an army comprised of all the “fighters” from all over the middle east that have been getting a sht ton of live training the last decade. and it wont be a rag-tag group, it will be men who fought the american monolith and recently. so maybe not a “regular” army but certainly comprised of experienced and well trained soldiers. The key word in my original post being “eventually” – I really dont know who it would be, but hizbollah kicked their ass in southern lebanon, and every single country in the world knows it……

        • richb says:

          Heck, just look at what a single unarmed Marine could do against them. From the UN report on the 2010 flotilla:

          A fight ensued between passengers and the first soldiers to descend onto the top deck that resulted in at least two soldiers being pushed down onto the bridge deck below, where they were involved in struggles with groups of passengers who attempted to take their weapons. The equipment jacket of at least one soldier was removed as he was pushed over the side of the deck. A number of weapons were taken from the soldiers by passengers and thrown into the sea: one weapon, a 9-mm pistol, was unloaded by a passenger, a former U.S. Marine, in front of witnesses and then hidden in another part of the ship in an attempt to retain evidence.

          116. A number of the passengers on the top deck fought with the soldiers using their fists, sticks, metal rods and knives.69 At least one of the soldiers was stabbed with a knife or other sharp object. Witnesses informed the Mission that their objective was to subdue and disarm the soldiers so that they could not harm anyone. The Mission is satisfied on the evidence that at least two passengers on the bridge deck also used handheld catapults to propel small projectiles at the helicopters. [My note: who's the David and who's the Goliath?] The Mission has found no evidence to suggest that any of the passengers used firearms or that any firearms were taken on board the ship. Despite requests, the Mission has not received any medical records or other substantiated information from the Israeli authorities regarding any firearm injuries sustained by soldiers participating in the raid. Doctors examined the three soldiers taken below decks and no firearm injuries were noted. Further, the Mission finds that the Israeli accounts so inconsistent and contradictory with regard to evidence of alleged firearms injuries to Israeli soldiers that it has to reject it.

          Here’s one of the terrible weapons the fearless IDF fought valiantly against:

          At least one of those killed was using a video camera and not involved in any of the fighting with the soldiers.

          Some more:

          As the seriousness of incidents on the outer decks became apparent, there was growing concern among some of the flotilla organisers that holding the captured Israeli soldiers may have serious implications for the security of all passengers on board.74 It was decided that the soldiers should be released and they were taken to the bow of the lower deck. Once on the bow deck two of the soldiers jumped into the sea and were picked up by Israeli boats. The third soldier did not jump and was rapidly joined by Israeli soldiers who came down from the top deck.

          Think of this. Civilians with no firearms disarmed, captured and released three special forces soldiers who fled in abject terror. Think what a modern, armed, regular army could do.

        • Dan Crowther says:

          Thanks Rich, for that. I was about to post the same thing. I can say for certain that Israeli fighter pilots are very very good and very professional – but based on my experiences, with the IDF officer class, i would have serious doubts about their ability to hold up against a modern force, to say nothing of the general lethality of their military. i think they fired something like 5 million rounds of different armaments during Cast Lead – thats a WHOLE LOT. “sprayin and prayin” as we called it……

        • Shingo says:

          That’s a fair comment Dan,

          After all, Hezbollah wouldn’t be the formidable force it is today, were it not for the 18 years of Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon.

      • I may be incorrect as to the source, but I believe it was General Schwarzkopf back in the 80′s during the cold war who stated that the Israeli army wouldn’t last 30 minutes in a war on the central plains of Europe.

        I have also read that the Israeli army is notoriously undisciplined–as should be obvious by that video.

      • Mooser says:

        That “eee” is so brave! Oy, so brave! He’s ready to take on the world, but not ready to give his own name.

    • ToivoS says:

      People here are having fun ridiculing the IDF, today they certainly deserve it. However in 1948, 1956 and 1967 they were definitely an fighting force worthy of that name. In 1948 the IDF (or whatever it was called, Stern gang, hagana, Irgun…) was made up of trained soldiers with combat experience during WWII. In fact the Zionist organizations encouraged their youth to volunteer to join the British army to gain combat experience.

      What changed is that the IDF over the last 30 years has become an army of occupation — their only experience has been in suppressing mostly unarmed civilians and terrorizing civilians. This has seriously degraded their ability to fight real armed combatants. The IDFs showing in Lebanon in 2006 showed the whole world how ineffective they have become.

      Basically, the IDF outnumbered the Hezbollah fighters by 20 to 1, they had complete air dominance and total artillery superiority. Hezbollah had only committed fighters with small arms and some very lethal antitank weapons. In addition, they had good mortars and ground to ground missiles. The net result was that 150 Israeli soldiers versus 185 Hezbollah fighters were killed. In addition Hezbollah destroyed a number of those fearsome Merkava tanks and other APCs. At the end Israel was unable to hold on to any of the territory they tried to conquer.

      Uri Avnery described this at the time (BTW, Uri’s brother died fighting with the British in Egypt against Rommel’s corps during this time when the Zionists were encouraging their youth to fight during WWII). The whole military world knows that Israel no longer has an army that can confront a real dedicated and trained opposition.

      The IDF has been totally corrupted by being nothing more than an army of occupation suppressing unarmed civilians.

      • Shingo says:

        What changed is that the IDF over the last 30 years has become an army of occupation — their only experience has been in suppressing mostly unarmed civilians and terrorizing civilians.

        There’s a saying that if you’re only fighting a weak enemy, you become weak. The IDF have become lazy, soft and pamapered and heavily dependent on state of the art weaponry.

        One of the reasons given for the defeat of the IDF in 2006 was that none of them were willing to die for their country, whereas Hezbollah were.

        What really sums up the attrophy of the IDF was their claim that the Gaza turkey shoot was their belief that they had regained their deterrance capacity. In other words, by picking on a soft target, they believed they regained their street cred (as Witty woudl call it).

        How pathetic is that?

        • eee says:

          500-600 Hezbollah fighters lost their life in the 2006 war.
          link to en.wikipedia.org

          Since the border with Lebanon has never been more quiet since 2006, it is clear Israel won the war. Yes, there were failures in planning. Halutz (chief of staff at that time) thought he could win just by using air power. That was a major mistake.

        • marc b. says:

          brilliant, eee-ah. the kill-ratio theory of victory. it worked so well for the US in vietnam. the only ‘success’ enjoyed by israel in 2006 was the wanton destruction of civilian infrastructure and the lacing of s. lebanon with bomblets to be found by lebanese children and farmers.

        • Shingo says:

          500-600 Hezbollah fighters lost their life in the 2006 war.

          According to thaty wonderfulyl reliable source of factual informations….the IDF. the same IDF that got their butts kicked.

          The following sentence says “Sources can be conflicting.”

          Thanks for the comic relief eee.

          Since the border with Lebanon has never been more quiet since 2006

          False. The border was more quiet between 2000 and 2006. After all, since 2006. there was a firefight between Israeli and Lebanese forces and Israel kidpnapped a Lebanese man earlier this year.

          Yes, there were failures in planning. Halutz (chief of staff at that time) thought he could win just by using air power.

          Theyu tried sending in greound troops and gthey got their asses kicked, so air power and gound troops wasn’t going to win it either.

  3. Cliff says:

    IDF is an army of 18-year-old brainwashed thugs. They are professionally trained bullies, with a God-complex.

    • marc b. says:

      agreed. it’s hard not to want to see them get their ass kicked when they so regularly beat up and kill men, women and children. unfortunately the ass kicking would likely be part of a larger mess, which i don’t wish on israelis or palestinians.

      but take heart. the israelis treat everyone like sh@t, even their nominal friends.

      link to cryptogon.com

      i like the bit in the story where new zealand forces confront the israeli ‘rescue’ team. would have been satisfying to hear that they shot a few rounds over their heads at least given that israel so blatantly violates new zealand sovereignty.

    • eee says:

      The IDF is one of the best armies in the world Cliff, get used to it.

      • Cliff says:

        No they aren’t. They have faced very few real challenges. Their victories have been exaggerated and mythologized, as have their opponents strength and efforts.

        The best example is the 1948 War.

        An army of crooks, who everyday face down men, women and children.

        You subjugate virtually helpless people, so you can steal their land and resources. You deny these people even exist, so it makes it easier in your mind to steal from them.

        • MLE says:

          My grandfather fought in the 48 war. I went to visit him and the news was on and they were talking about the stalemate in Libya.

          Terrible fighters, he says. The Arabs were always terrible fighters.

          Poppop, they’re not trained soldiers, they’re protestors who took up arms to defend themselves after Gaddafi fired at them with anti-aircraft artillery. They have no training in combat.

          Well they should get trained, he snapped, or they should have trained before they started this whole mess. It’s like in 48 when we fought the Arabs, when we got close- they ran away. We used to track them down because they would leave their weapons behind, sometimes they would leave a trail of clothing, shoes and things behind them and that’s how we would find them. Unprofessional. Like I said, the Arabs are terrible fighters. Pathetic.

          I think I followed up with some comment about the Libyan rebels not being able to train because they weren’t really planning on the fighting escalating to this point, and it would have made it much easier for Q’s security forces to pick out the organizers of the uprising and snuff the opposition out, but I was much more interested in this new revelation of his. The tiny state of Israel was supposedly surrounded by enemies intent on wiping it off the map, but they would run away when you approach, leaving their weapons and shoes behind?

          Unfortunately, I don’t get much more details than this. He knows where my sympathies lie and it upsets him, and during the time I have left with him, I’d rather we have more good moments than bad. I can’t even blame him all that much for joining the army. He was an 18 year old unemployed Romanian FOB refugee. Of course he was going to enlist. Besides, he didn’t know the politics behind the conflict- he was given some training and a gun and told- ‘the Arabs are trying to kill us, shoot them before they shoot you.’
          His dream wasn’t to live in Palestine/Israel, it was to come to the US. He eventually took the entire family and moved to Brazil, to increase the chance of getting there.

        • Shingo says:

          Terrible fighters, he says. The Arabs were always terrible fighters..

          Always?

          I wionder what he’d say today about Hezbollah. It was the Israelis who did the running away in 2006.

      • marc b. says:

        the idf is soft, and wouldn’t fare well against similarly armed forces. they would be embarassed in a confrontation with any americans or Brits with experience in iraq or afghanistan, and they had their ass handed to them in s. lebanon in 2006. get used to it.

      • chet says:

        What about the reports of the brave and intrepid Israeli soldiers holed up in a house under fire during the Lebanon incursion soiling themselves in fear.

      • Charon says:

        LOL! Is that why they got their butts handed to them by the Hezbollah? An unorganized resistance group using mostly amateur weapons?

        The IDF have never faced a serious war. EVER. They’re weak. They have advanced and mostly US technology which makes them powerful, but the actual soldiers are cowards. Just like in the video with the coward pointing the gun. All the comments saying “what about xxxxxx? nobody died so who cares” But that’s just rule #4 everything sucks.

        You don’t point guns at unarmed civilians. Unless you’re a cowardly criminal thug. Let’s see, in 1948 IDF only faced one ‘real’ army in Jordan. Contrary to popular belief, nobody ‘won’ that war. If they ‘won’ then the we wouldn’t have the status quo still in effect. In 1967 IDF destroyed (from the air) Egyptian and Syrian military targets. That’s how they ‘won’ that war.

        Using Lebanon and the Palestinians for target practice over the years doesn’t make your army any good. If the US marines ever fought the IDF, they’d all go down like dominoes.

        • Shingo says:

          Let’s see, in 1948 IDF only faced one ‘real’ army in Jordan.

          Very good point, and Jordan had already promised the British that they would not push into Israeli territory. The British had concluded a deal with the Zionists that there would be no confrontation between the Jordanian Arab army and the Jewish forces. This is why Glubb later called the ’48 war, the phony war.

        • James says:

          charon – your comment reflects the video up at the top very succinctly..

          “You don’t point guns at unarmed civilians. Unless you’re a cowardly criminal thug.”

        • Egbert says:

          He is also wearing a tee shirt. Who does he think he is? Someone who has the right to bare arms?

          Also look at the 3rd IDF thug near the stairs at the rear of the shot at about 1:00. He is absolutely terrified of unarmed civilians – the guy with bare arms has scared him sh*tless.

      • MRW says:

        Not according to US Colonel Lang, who was DIA + Liaison Officer in the Middle East for a long time. He said the IDF wasn’t really an army, more like a police force. Said the soldiers were undisciplined and were trained by 24-year-olds who did not have military discipline themselves.

    • radii says:

      that sums it up neatly, Cliff

    • seafoid says:

      The IDF at this stage is no more than a colonial police force.
      What does the picture show? A European Jew with a gun in the Middle East. It is still ludicrous
      63 years on.

      • Citizen says:

        The IDf looie reminds me of a nerd playing macho in his mother’s basement. He’s a disgrace. The Israelis have chosen this guy as their replacement “light to the world.” They get a lot out of those old German movies, don’t they?

        • The IDF are kids with guns. Real tough guys when the targets are civilians, journalists, women and children. But put them in an equal fight and they are a bunch of crybabies. Like the KKK, all front, pointy heads and air-for-brains racists.

      • libra says:

        seafoid: “A European Jew with a gun in the Middle East.”

        He didn’t look any different from the Palestinian to me. What’s specifically European about him? Really seafoid, your continual comparison of Israelis to Europeans says much more about you than anything else. The Israelis are out there on there own, nothing really European about their behaviour at all. If anything, I would say they are reverting to biblical times but with modern weapons (that might explain their fascination with white phosphorus shells – those airbursts literally look like Yahweh smiting their enemies).

        That said, the Zionist influence via the elite could be dragging Europe down as it has America. Yet another reason to fight it.

        • Taxi says:

          Most israeli citizens are of european origin – just look at the frigging Knesset members! How many of them even ‘look’ like brown-skinned mideastern semites?

          Also read up on the Khazar of central Europe.

          “The Israelis are out there on there own, nothing really European about their behaviour at all.”

          Hahahaha you’re kidding, right?!

        • libra says:

          Taxi: “Hahahaha you’re kidding, right?!”

          No I’m not. Where in Europe to you find this behaviour to be the norm? Don’t give the Zionists easy excuses with lazy racially-based thinking.

          As for the Khazars, you’d be foolish to get drawn into this blind-alley as an explanation for anything. Only of interest to a serious student of human migration.

        • Taxi says:

          Libra,

          I have no interest in linking you to the facts of history – you go google and you go discern for yourself!

          But I’ll give you a teenee weenee puny little hint: zionism itself is an 18th century european colonialist ideology – duh!

          And actually, YOU’RE the “blind-alley” that dismisses chunks of history to suit their perverse definition of what is the ‘norm’. Wow the audacity and folly of your dismissing the seismic effects of “human migration”! So like you ever heard of ‘genealogy’? Ever heard of ‘geopolitics’?

          Yeah you probably have but ‘prefer’ to dismiss them too huh?

        • libra says:

          Taxi: “But I’ll give you a teenee weenee puny little hint: zionism itself is an 18th century european colonialist ideology – duh!”

          Early Zionism was undoubtedly a product of its time, place and people. So it blended colonialism, “volkish” thinking, socialism, Judaism and no doubt more. But so what? Zionism is not an immutable idea that is tied to a specific “racial group”, nor is any “racial group” tied to immutable ideas.

          Israel is essentially an isolated place with its own language, the perfect place for it’s culture to rapidly evolve in a unique direction. And of course Europe’s culture has changed after two world-wars, but in a very different direction. Just compare modern Israel with modern Germany, for instance. I just don’t see much resemblance, except perhaps the faces in the Knesset may have a passing resemblance to those in the Bundestag.

          Israel may like to show a “European” face to the world, but don’t fall for it. The two are far apart today. Indeed, America with the rise of the Old Testament-leaning religious right is much closer in attitude to Israel.

          But the reason I bring this up is a serious one. Israel’s behaviour is against global norms. It does not help to build a global coalition against it, which needs to include European countries, by making these poor (and very lazy) comparisons.

        • Taxi says:

          Oh the ‘exceptionalist’ argument, yeah right Libra. “Lazy”, yeah right again you are.

    • Shingo says:

      IDF is an army of 18-year-old brainwashed thugs. They are professionally trained bullies, with a God-complex.

      More like professionally trained Dough Boys, who would wet themselves if ever they had to stare down anyone armed as well as they were.

  4. eljay says:

    >> The video shows the IDF officer, a First Lieutenant, shouting and pushing the Palestinian man and then immediately cocking his loaded gun into the man’s face. When the man continued to fight with him, the IDF officer again pointed the gun at him.
    >> “On the surface this looks like a serious incident.”

    You bet it does. Why, it’s enough to make a Zio-supremacist want to touch himself! 8-o

    Anyway, the IDF thug was right to raise his weapon. The Palestinian man clearly possesses fists, so we cannot say that he was “unarmed”.

  5. Mndwss says:

    This made me think about the stories my father told me about how he and other children threw stones at German soldiers in occupied Norway. He was living in a building on a cliff above the soldiers in the harbor. I asked him if he was scared. He said no, throwing stones from a distance is not dangerous if you hide when you see the flash from guns shooting back. The scary part came later.

    The scary part was when the soldiers came to the building looking for the children.

    • Citizen says:

      Yep. And that’s a perceptive historical analogy, Mndwss. The only difference is that the German soldiers kept themselves cleaner and neater. And, oh yeah, they actually could face a strong opponent, and did.

    • Rag says:

      Perfect analogy. Palestine is occupied, and any population has the right to defend itself and have an active resistance against an occupation. Quoting from our phone book in Sweden during the cold war, ‘Any message that the resistance should end is false.’ The same page contained tips on how you could resist and perform simple sabotage while still qualifying as a non-combatant.

  6. seethelight says:

    The video frame on this blog post (above), with the IDF soldier’s rifle barrel only inches from the Palestinian’s face, captures in exquisite detail the depth of depravity to which the IDF, and the Israeli society it represents, has fallen. (What courage it must have taken for this unarmed Palestinian to stand his ground.) The IDF is an army of state-sponsored thugs. And, yes, won’t Israelis be shocked when these state-trained hoodlums begin pointing weapons at them in the not too distant future. Because that’s the direction Israel civil society is headed.

    This photo frame should be made into a poster! It is powerful.

    • tree says:

      What courage it must have taken for this unarmed Palestinian to stand his ground.

      Yes, my thought exactly. Although, sadly, I imagine that he’s probably had a lot of unrequested and undesired practice at it.

    • annie says:

      This photo frame should be made into a poster!

      i want one!

      • eljay says:

        >> (What courage it must have taken for this unarmed Palestinian to stand his ground.)

        Yup. And it’s easy for a scrawny supremacist to be a tough guy when he’s got a gun in his hand, his government’s blessing to commit murder and the world’s sympathy for his (aggressor-)victimhood.

        Damn you, Hamas!!!

    • mudder says:

      Such a powerful video frame! Please, someone make a good quality still image. It would make a great poster.

    • MLE says:

      It needs to become an internet meme.

  7. RE: “I have no doubt that Palestinians will be victorious, sooner than later” ~ Seham

    From: Josh Ruebner, US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation
    Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:24 AM
    To: dickerson
    Subject: John, Tell U.S. Not to Veto Palestine UN Membership in Security Council

    TAKE ACTION: Tell U.S. Not to Veto Palestine’s Membership in UN Security Council – link to salsa.democracyinaction.org

  8. Cliff says:

    The Palestinians are very patient. Having to endure this bullshit everyday.

    Kids being convicted of crimes for throwing rocks at soldiers of the occupying army. The soldiers safe-guarding the religious fanatical colonists who steal from and abuse the Palestinians. These soldiers, who regularly humiliate elders in Palestinian society. Kids having to watch their parents treated like dirt in front of them. Parents watching their kids treated like animals.

    Disgusting. Even if the IDF were ‘the best trained’ – no decent person would give a damn. Monsters is what they are.

  9. seafoid says:

    Keep up the good work, Israel

    This is just unbelievable. They really think this is going to fly and half a million settlers will pull it off.

    link to haaretz.com

    The Knesset passed a preliminary reading on Wednesday of a bill that would extend Israeli law to museums in West Bank settlements. The bill passed by a vote of 51 to 9. According to its creator, National Union MK Uri Ariel, the bill is the first in a series whose purpose is to strengthen Israeli sovereignty over the West Bank and put an end to the “humiliating discrimination” against the settlers.

    This is what the Board of Deputies in the UK, the ZOA, AIPAC, the French Jews, the German Jews, the Australian Jews are doing by their tacit support – they are condemning Zionism to death .

    • Bumblebye says:

      How can you “strenthen…sovereignty” where you have none?
      And is it regular Israel doing the “humiliating discrimination” against illegal settlements in this case, since the museums are in them?

    • Shingo says:

      This is just unbelievable. They really think this is going to fly and half a million settlers will pull it off.

      Why so outraged Seafoid? Didn’t you listen to Witty? The two state soluition is alive and well.

      Move along, nothing to see here.

  10. Taxi says:

    Bravo Palestine.

    Eff you israel.

    Bravo Palestine AGAIN!

    So patient, so righteous, so noble, so brave, so beautiful!

    I lllllllllllllove ya, yer men, yer women, yer children – everything ’bout you I just forever love!

    • You don’t wonder why he is supposedly not afraid? Would he do the same if faced with Hamas thugs? Syrian security? Not bloody likely. He knows very well that Israeli soldiers operate under a moral code. Of course, none of you will accept that, but I speak from direct experience.

      • Shingo says:

        You don’t wonder why he is supposedly not afraid?

        He’s not afraid because he’s not afraif to die. Israel kill more civlians than Syrian security or Hamas.

        He knows very well that Israeli soldiers operate under a moral code.

        You might have a point. After all, he wasn’t a 13 year sold girl, so maybe he figured he was safe.

      • Cliff says:

        Israeli soldiers have no moral code. What stopped him was his own fear.

        Often Zionists will say “Israel didn’t seek to inflict devastation on the civilian life/infrastructure in Gaza” because the IDF hadn’t ‘nuked’ it into oblivion.

        Essentially, if Israel isn’t shoving people into ovens or wiping them off the map, nothing they actually do is a bad thing.

        It’s always relative to what X, Y, and Z countries do. Hence, they whitewash their own criminality.

        At the same time, Israel and its supporters justify their actions due to terrorism or more specifically, for example, the rockets fired at S’Derot.

        So they whitewash their own crimes and downplay the suffering of the Palestinians by comparing the Israel-Palestine conflict to some OTHER conflict.

        So, if we follow their argumentation style, we could say ‘don’t whine about suicide bombing, YOU kill far more civilians than the Palestinian terrorists have AND you occupy, steal from, murder, abuse, and humiliate them – all without reproach.

        They use an irrelevant comparison as a tactic, and we use a relevant one.

        Yesh Din studies show how there is virtually no accountability within the IDF in the territories. And of course, all the news stories about IDF shootings of civilians, abuse, etc. Protecting racist, abusive and often murderous settlers. Etc.

        Only deluded Christian fanatics, the far-right, and Zionists believe in the moral stature of the IDF.

      • RobertB says:

        Hey lli-Lie

        >> “He knows very well that Israeli soldiers operate under a moral code. Of course, none of you will accept that, but I speak from direct experience.”
        ~~~~~

        Hmmm… “Israeli soldiers operate under a moral code”!!!

        You must think that Americans, Europeans & others are naive to fall for your hasbara & deceptive lies.

        Israeli IDF thugs/killers shoot & murder 9 & 10 year old Palestinian boys & girls…or any Arab/Palestinian regardless of age and/or gender… And they NEVER have to spend one hour in prison…NEVER!

        They slaughtered 1400 Palestinians in Gaza most of the dead were civilians and many were women & children {December 2008-January 2009}. They used the most sophisticated American made weapons…500 pounds plus bombs, missiles…etc… on homes, neighborhoods…Israel’s IDF even gunned down unarmed Palestinian civilians holding white flags. To top it all, they used their “white phosphorus”, a chemical weapon, on a civilian population. The Israeli army/IDF at first denied using white phosphorus…and only after investigation & witnesses results…Israel’s army admitted to the use of white phosphorus in Gaza.

        Nice operational moral code for your Israeli IDF killers…eh!!!

        Israel & AIPAC/zionist controlled US News media called the heavy military assault on Gaza…A war!!! How could it be a war when the Palestinians have NO army, no tanks, no Apache helicopters, no fighter jets, no missiles, no navy, no air force…etc… The Palestinians had a few rifles…and home made “rockets” that are about as accurate as fire crackers.

        Israel’s army/IDF have NO moral code … if they did, there would be less deaths of Palestinian/Arab children, women, grandmothers, grandfathers….

      • MLE says:

        Thats what the Syrians are doing now en masse. Standing in the face of the guns Assad is pointing at them. It’s what the Egyptians did on their way to Tahrir on January 28th and what the Tunisians did as well. The residents of Benghazi didn’t go back in their homes when Gaddafi’s forces fired anti-aircraft guns at them, in fact even more of them came out onto the streets and joined the protests.

        The Arab Spring will include the Palestinian people. I don’t know why you keep bringing up Syria anyway- everyone here supports the Syrian people. The point of this website is to break the media hypocrisy which portrays the Palestinian attempts for self-determination and dignity in a different light than the other movements in the region. Nobody says Palestinian blood is holier than Syrian blood, but the coverage of the Syrian uprising is reflective of the situation on the ground and the Syrian regime is very bad at reshaping global perception. The I/P conflict is covered in the biased narrative that has been shaped over the past 60 years.

  11. annie says:

    throwing stones my ass. so f’ing what! show these friggin iof bullys for what they’re really made, of. they need rifles to feel like men. what wimps.

  12. Kate says:

    I find it fascinating how the Israeli army occasionally decides to make a big thing out of a relatively minor outrage (not at all minor to the Palestinian victim, obviously, but minor compared to even worse behavior – see story below), apparently in the hope that the rest of the world will think ‘What a moral army!’ They always seem to choose some action which won’t result in serious jail time for the perp.

    BTW, look at the Ynet version of the gun-to-head story to see how badly the brave victim (and his family) were affected by the actions of this soldier once the adrenaline wore off: link to ynetnews.com “The Palestinian man told Ynet that since the incident he has been having trouble returning to the site and is no longer able to drive his cab. “I don’t understand why they did it to me. I’m just a person who wishes to live, with a wife and four children. My wife is also scared after a weapon was aimed at her husband, and the children aren’t doing too well either.” Haaretz didn’t go into that.

    Now consider the behavior described below — shooting and ultimately killing an innocent young man on his way to pick up his family. It clearly wouldn’t do for the army to admit to this deed. Only Gideon Levy seems to think this outrage worth mentioning; certainly the Israeli army is not going after the perps in this case (which was in my Today in Palestine list yesterday but engendered no comments):

    link to haaretz.com

    Twilight Zone: Drive-by shooting / Gideon Levy

    Haaretz 15 July — Jalal Al-Masri was fatally shot by soldiers while driving to collect his family for a weekend vacation in Eilat. Six months after the incident, his bereaved family are still looking for answers — What happened in January this year? During that month, Israel Defense Forces soldiers, using live ammunition, killed three Palestinians in incidents at checkpoints and another, aged 66, as he slept in his bed. In the six months since, not one Palestinian has been killed in the West Bank. Last week, however, the fifth casualty from January died. The circumstances of his death are especially puzzling and infuriating.

    Jalal Al-Masri was a 28-year-old truck driver from Jerusalem’s mixed Arab-Jewish Abu Tor neighborhood, married and the father of two children. He carried cargo between Ashdod and Sde Uziyahu, a village near the port. He had a blue ‏(Israeli‏) ID card and yellow ‏(Israeli‏) license plates on his private Peugeot 205. Before becoming a truck driver, he worked as a domestic in the Eldan Hotel in Jerusalem. His brother, Jamil, a taxi driver in Jerusalem, says Jalal loved his work; he once suggested that he switch to the public transport sphere, like him, but Jalal declined.

    He had no security or criminal background, was never arrested or interrogated, never “belonged,” and was never “active.” He liked to vacation in Eilat, with his wife, Safaa, who is from the southern West Bank town of Idna, and their two small children, Khalil, four, and Razal, two and a half. They had been married for five years. Last January they planned to spend a weekend in Eilat at their favorite hotel. It was cold in Jerusalem, and the family wanted to bask in southern sunshine for a couple of days.

    Late in the evening of Thursday, January 20, Jalal left his home for Idna, to pick up his wife and children ‏(who were there for a short family visit‏), ahead of the trip to Eilat early the next morning. Jalal was in good spirits, say his two brothers, Jamil and Hakham. He had supper with his parents and left Abu Tor for Idna around 10 P.M. in his Peugeot. The details of what happened on the way are few and very unclear. What’s known is that around noon the next day, the police called Hakham and told him Jalal had been injured in a road accident and was in Hadassah University Hospital, Ein Karem.

    Jalal had driven south on Highway 60. He was shot with live ammunition by soldiers who were standing on the roadside outside the town of Halhul, near Hebron. Three bullets tore through the rear window of the Peugeot; no bullet struck the wheels or other parts of the vehicle. One bullet hit Jalal in the back of the head and exited through the front, doing lethal damage to his brain….

  13. Cliff says:

    link to ynetnews.com

    Check out the Zionists in the comments section. These people are insane.

  14. Kathleen says:

    And he probably would have pulled the trigger if there were not cameras

    • Shingo says:

      Seriously Kathleen,

      It’s obvious that the IDF guy was only defending himself. He has that right, haven’t you heard?

      Witty would call this “humanising the other”.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Yeah. To Witty, human is to humanizing as fish is to fishing.

      • James says:

        witty never shows himself on threads like this…

        i guess he is hiding under the table with eee…

        • Cliff says:

          Dick Witty always ignores the facts-on-the-ground types of reporting.

          He only posts in academic discussions about how to end the conflict.

          However, in his case, he is not interested in ending it. He spams the same garbage over and over (is awarded his own topic for it) and essentially talks to himself, while every anti-Zionist on this blog (including me) fall for it and take the time to refute his lies.

          That is the flow-chart for Richard Witty on Mondoweiss. And in another 10,000 comments it will not change. Phil will likely award the troll another congratulatory post.

  15. Kathleen says:

    New Terror Report Warns of Insider Threat to Utilities
    link to abcnews.go.com

    Few talk about why so many people still want to attack the US. Hell Diane Rehm has stopped doing shows on the Israeli Palestinian conflict and so has Neil Conan. The I lobby is closing down the openings

  16. Colin Murray says:

    The IDF ground force, Col. Patrick Lang, Sic Semper Tyrannis

    As a result of this system of manning, the IDF’s ground force is more unpredictable and volatile at the tactical (company) level than might be the case otherwise. The national government has a hard time knowing whether or not specific policies will be followed in the field. For example, the Israeli government’s policy in the present action in the Gaza Strip has been to avoid civilian casualties whenever possible. Based on personal experience of the behavior of IDF conscripts toward Palestinian civilians, I would say that the Israeli government has little control over what individual groups of these young Israeli soldiers may do in incidents like the one yesterday in which mortar fire was directed toward UN controlled school buildings.

    In Beit Suhur outside Bethlehem, I have seen IDF troops shoot at Palestinian Christian women hanging out laundry in their gardens. This was done with tank coaxial machine guns from within a bermed up dirt fort a couple of hundred yards away, and evidently just for the fun of it. In Bethlehem a lieutenant told me that he would have had his men shoot me in the street during a demonstration that I happened to get caught in, but that he had not because he thought I might not be a Palestinian and that if I were not the incident would have caused him some trouble. I have seen a lot of things like that. One might say that in war, s–t happens. That is true, but such behavior is indicative of an army that is not well disciplined and not a completely reliably instrument of state policy. In my travels in the west Bank in March of 2008, it was noticeable that the behavior towards Palestinian civilians of IDF troops at roadblocks was reminiscent of that of any group of post-adolescents given guns and allowed to bully the helpless in order to look tough for each other. I think the IDF would be well advised to grow some real sergeants.

    • dimadok says:

      I was the platoon sergeant in IDF during the second intifada. Although I do not endorse the behavior of that particular officer I can assure that vast majority of the soldiers are trained, hardened and can take any challenge thrown at them. We are the real sergeants and it seems that most of people forget the fact that at half of the IDF troops are reservist force, at their late 20s to 40s years old. So keep on your rants about child- thugs with gun, it only makes us more resilient to stand our ground.
      P.S. Please do not tempt the IDF from your own comfortable places- it seems childish and immature.

      • Shingo says:

        I can assure that vast majority of the soldiers are trained, hardened and can take any challenge thrown at them.

        Provided those challenges are limited to the Palestinian youths throwing rocks.

        So keep on your rants about child- thugs with gun, it only makes us more resilient to stand our ground.

        Yeah, all that resilience was on full display in 2006, as those trained, hardened men came back, crying into their hankershiefs – that is, the ones that didn’t go AWOL.

        It seems your traned and hardened colleagues can’t even deal with fighting an enemy that is unarmed.
        link to haaretz.com

        And more recently, it seems your, ahem “trained, hardened” colleagues are still losing control of their bodily functions at the first sight of their fellow trained, hardened colleagues geting th chit kicked out of them

        Flotilla evokes post-traumatic stress in former soldiers
        link to ynetnews.com

        Please do not tempt the IDF from your own comfortable places- it seems childish and immature.

        Why, are you afraid you might lose control of your own bodily functions?

        In any case, I wouldn’t worry about the IDF being tempted by anyone other than an unarmed Palestinian, or a peace activist on a boat – it’s not like your Dough Boys have taste for taking on anyone who can fight back.

      • Taxi says:

        LOL dimdock and oooooooh you’re like soooooo scary.

        NOT!

        LOL the arrogance and lies of idf soldiers like dimdock who come here to Mondoweiss to set us all straight! Gee thanks for the bad joke you jerk!

        “… childish and immature”. What’s the difference between these two words huh? NOT MUCH! But they show you’re very upset (cold rage). See: you really are a thin-skinned jerk who can’t handle even verbal confrontations let alone physical ones.

      • Bumblebye says:

        You should take a look at this ape with a gun! I don’t think he’s had much training:

        The little guy’s naked too. Can’t tell whose army he belongs to.

      • Djinn says:

        Please do not tempt the IDF from your own comfortable places- it seems childish and immature

        My experience in ‘tempting’ (by the way what exactly do you mean by that, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and asssume that it’s simply a case of ESL rather than the far less flattering interpretation) was in the West Bank. I did not have skunk water, tear gas, riot gear, guns and total legal impunity. From where I stood THEY were the childish, not to mention cowardly, racist and obnoxious ones.

        Perhaps you shouldn’t ‘tempt’ Palestinians from your safe place, ie as a member of the apartheid class.

      • annie says:

        do not tempt the IDF

        oh my, a warning. yawn.

      • American says:

        “P.S. Please do not tempt the IDF from your own comfortable places- it seems childish and immature”

        rotflmao…..you’re funny.
        But I guess there’s only one way to settle this.
        The pro Americans in the DOD and CIA do a false flag attack on the US or it’s overseas interest and set up the Israelis as the culprits.
        Maybe something like an attack on a US military base in the ME in Iraq since the Israeli motive of keeping us in Iraq to prevent Iran from spreading it’s influence is well known and would be obvious.
        Then we can attack Israel.
        And see who wins.
        Sounds like a plan to me!

      • Mooser says:

        “P.S. Please do not tempt the IDF from your own comfortable places- it seems childish and immature.”

        I have not yet, that I know of, had a comment rejected by moderators, a testimony to their patience if I ever saw one. But I, as a Jew, know of no apropriate answer to that that would keep my record intact.
        I will say that most of them begin with the word “Go”!

  17. eljay says:

    >> I was the platoon sergeant in IDF during the second intifada. Although I do not endorse the behavior of that particular officer …

    Thank you for that comment.

    >> … I can assure that vast majority of the soldiers are trained, hardened and can take any challenge thrown at them. … So keep on your rants about child- thugs with gun, it only makes us more resilient to stand our ground.
    >> P.S. Please do not tempt the IDF from your own comfortable places- it seems childish and immature.

    So…keep on with the rants, but do not tempt the IDF. Got it.

    FWIW, most people here express disgust with the IDF’s behaviour in general. I do not believe anyone actually wants to “tempt” the IDF to carry out even more violent and criminal acts than they already do.

    • dimadok says:

      Would you feel disgust by that?
      link to youtu.be or by that link to youtu.be ?

      Please tell me where are your morals, because I know where I’m standing and why I put my uniform every time I went to stand in front of people, which some of them are determine to kill me our my fellow soldiers, family or friends.
      Israel is very convenient target for the outburst of rage, anger, suppressed fears and other complexes exhibited by the readers comments here, and particularly to my comment above. It’s easily forgettable that there are two parts to that conflict, which has a very basic principle of nation building underneath of it. I choose to be on the Israeli side and will do everything in my powers for it to prevail.

      • Taxi says:

        Well I ain’t in uniform and I AIN’T GONNA LET YOU WIN buster!

        In case you haven’t noticed, you Apartheid israelis are LOSING the ‘war over the hearts and minds’ of the world – losing the propaganda war. Why? Is it because of anti-shamnticism? A big fat NO! I’ll give you two hints: it starts with the letter ‘A’ and ends with the letter ‘d’.

      • annie says:

        oh great, another new israel defender relying on clips from the 2nd intifada to make his point. file this under pizza parlor.

        • dimadok says:

          Well I’m sorry but the facts on the ground as they are now are the direct consequence of the 2nd intifada. It seems it is OK to bring stories form ’48, ’67 or even 06′ as long as they serve your line of arguments, but it is major no-no to bring the 2nd intifada lessons as viewed by the Israelis.

          And Taxi -get some rest , you get too excited when you see new faces here, especially if their opinions contradict your view of the world.

          Nobody in Israel feels like “losing” some propaganda wars, and I think most of the are not aware of such, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, Bedouins or anyone with any real connection to the land of Israel.

        • mig says:

          dimadok :

          “Well I’m sorry but the facts on the ground as they are now are the direct consequence of the 2nd intifada. It seems it is OK to bring stories form ’48, ’67 or even 06′ as long as they serve your line of arguments, but it is major no-no to bring the 2nd intifada lessons as viewed by the Israelis.”

          ++++ Have they told you what was the reason for 2nd intifada ? No, not that one….this one and story behind of it :

          link to theredmountainpost.com

          “Nobody in Israel feels like “losing” some propaganda wars”

          ++++ Because you dont know that is the real story. And thats why you still think its the real one. Stick around and you will see. Be polite, and we will take you to the wild side. Unfortunately after that you’ll have to cut all your family ties, to be precise, they’ll skip you out. And you gonna be self-hating jew. Now, does that sound interesting ?

          Take the blue pill :

          Other side you will stick with your family, following zionista propaganda.

          Take the red pill :

          Other side you will join us, live life with truth, and you’ll never see your family again.

          “and I think most of the are not aware of such, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, Bedouins or anyone with any real connection to the land of Israel.”

          ++++ Right, thats what they have told you, and thats you telling us. Not your fault, you just dont know any better. Because that information is blocked from you.

          So how its gonna be dude ?

        • Taxi says:

          “And Taxi -get some rest , you get too excited when you see new faces here, especially if their opinions contradict your view of the world.”

          Au contaire mister Apartheid israel dimadok – I get BORED not excited with the same old same old same old same old hasbara!

          And you reckon we’re deluded? Hahhahahhah yeah right. Keep thinking this – it’ll really make israel safe and secure.

        • annie says:

          the facts on the ground as they are now are the direct consequence of the 2nd intifada.

          ah yes, the ol ‘israel only reacts’ lingo. impressive/not.

          Taxi -get some rest , you get too excited

          this is not a majority rule site. the attitude you present, entering these threads advising people to get rest, will probably not endear yourself to the ptb here. just saying. i could be wrong, but i doubt it. bloviation, declarations of winning arguments, haughty holier than thou presentations and the like will never compensate for a weak argument. hauling out isolated incidents to justify state sponsored policies (like targeted assassination squads) and decades of draconian oppression, especially incidents that took place years ago that have been humped and humped til kingdom come just show us how weak your argument is.

        • tree says:

          Well I’m sorry but the facts on the ground as they are now are the direct consequence of the 2nd intifada. It seems it is OK to bring stories form ’48, ’67 or even 06′ as long as they serve your line of arguments, but it is major no-no to bring the 2nd intifada lessons as viewed by the Israelis.

          The 2nd intifada came long after the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the start of Israeli theft of private land from the Palestinians there.( 23 years later, to be exact) The closure policy that Israel instituted came before the 2nd intifada as well( in 1991), and in the first month of the 2nd intifada, the vast majority of the casualties were Palestinians killed by Israelis, during the time when, according to official Israeli sources, the IDF shot over one million rounds of ammunition in the West Bank and Gaza and invaded most of the West Bank cities with armored tanks. The first suicide bomb didn’t happen until over 4 months after all the Israeli violence and Palestinian deaths.

          And you have the chutzpah to claim that everything that came BEFORE the 2nd intifada happened BECAUSE of the intifada? Because the “facts on the ground” are simply an extension of actions that Israel took well before the 2nd intifada, and in fact well before the 1st intifada. What is it about Israelis that makes them think that they can treat people like dirt, and steal their land, and not expect any blowback from dishing out that kind of horrendous treatment? Seriously.

        • Shingo says:

          Nobody in Israel feels like “losing” some propaganda wars, and I think most of the are not aware of such, including Israeli Arabs, Druze, Bedouins or anyone with any real connection to the land of Israel.

          Does that include the bedoins who’s houses you are demolishing?

          As for losing propaganda wars,  well, let’s just say that enjoying popularity and prestige similar to that of North Korea doesn’t bode well.

          BTW. There’s no such thing as the Land of Israel.

      • eljay says:

        >> It’s easily forgettable that there are two parts to that conflict …

        No, it’s not easily forgettable. Everyone knows that there are two parties. But only one side:
        - ethnically cleansed the Palestinians (an unjust and immoral act that some Zionists on this site choose to justify as “necessary” and a “required” evil); and
        - is engaged in an ON-GOING campaign of occupation, land theft, colonization and destruction.

        The blowback from that should not come as a surprise to you or to anyone else.

        • dimadok says:

          Well as long the Israel admits his wrongdoings, whether truthful or not- everlasting peace will be achieved? I saw the rise and fall of Oslo accords, I saw PA reaching the levels of unthinkable interactions with Israel , everyday I watched 50 thousand of workers heading to their jobs in Israel, and now everything is gone.
          Now my question is where are the limits of bending over for the Israel, and the answer as you may see in geopolitical scene in Israel is -enough is enough.
          So we shall endure, keep living our lives and protecting our families, while other side consider his steps. Israel is viable state, living in full, while Palestinian society , after receiving about 100 bn USD in aid (link to unrwa.org, link to en.wikipedia.org) , still remains hateful, disintegrated and totally dependent of daily supplies of goods.

        • eljay says:

          >> Now my question is where are the limits of bending over for the Israel …

          It’s amusing that you seem to think Israel is doing everything to accomodate the Palestinians (“the limits of bending over”) when the facts clearly show that Israel continues to occupy, steal, colonize, destroy and kill…and refuses to stop.

          While raping his victim, the rapist wards off her punches. “See how she punches me? Where are the limits of bending over?! Why must I endure this anger, this hatred, this violence?!! There are two parts to every conflict!!!”

        • American says:

          “Israel is viable state, living in full, while Palestinian society , after receiving about 100 bn USD in aid (link to unrwa.org
          link to en.wikipedia.org , still remains hateful, disintegrated and totally dependent of daily supplies of goods”

          The problem is that isn’t true.
          Israel is the biggest welfare state in the universe.
          You are living on welfare mainly from the US and partially from Germany.
          Even most of your industry comes from US companies locating there due to the combinations Jewish lobbying businesses in the US and cheaper labor in Israel just like they go other third world countries for.
          All your IT is owned by USA companies.
          All you military hi-tech is given by or pirated from the US…which Israel ‘modifies”, slaps an Isr sticker on and sells to other countries
          Your drug industry is 90% generics off expired patents or pirated patients from France and the US. Teva, your so called premier drug producer is the most ‘sued’ drug company for illegally reproduced drugs from US, German and French patents.
          There is no way to describe Israel except as a parasite.
          And an ungrateful parasite at that.
          As far as most can tell all you produce on your own is hot air and chaos. For all your tough talk and insulting you’re just monkeys pretending to be silverbacks.
          Currently the only thing standing between Israel and it’s total disappearance is a bunch of corrupt and zio US congress people– and when we get rid of them where will you be then?
          And that will happen because you are stupid enough in your little pissant hubris to make it happen. So keep it up, people everywhere are looking forward to your last and final mistake.

          link to fas.org

          CRS Issue Brief for Congress

          SUMMARY
          Israel is not economically self-sufficient,
          and relies on foreign assistance and borrowing
          to maintain its economy

        • eee says:

          Dimadok,

          Welcome. The people on this site do not believe that Israel should have been founded. Most of them are anti-zionists. Therefore, an argument that you are protecting yourself and your family falls on deaf ears since they will tell you that it should be expected that you are attacked since you are a colonialist. Yes, they are that extreme.

          But as you say so well, we will prosper and prevail and they will keep howling at the moon.

        • eee says:

          American,

          You are completely delusional and incorrect.
          From wikipedia:
          The Economy of Israel is a technologically advanced market economy[6], consisting of a rapidly developing high-tech sector, which is backed by a strong Venture capital industry. Israel possesses a substantial service sector and the Israel diamond industry is one of the world’s centers for diamond cutting and polishing. It is also a world leader in software and telecommunication development and is a major tourist destination with 3.45 million foreign tourists visiting in 2010. The major industrial sectors include metal products, electronic and biomedical equipment, processed foods, chemicals, and transport equipment. Relatively poor in natural resources, Israel depends on imports of petroleum, coal, food, uncut diamonds and production inputs, though the country’s nearly total reliance on energy imports may change with recent discoveries of large gas reserves off its coast.[7]
          In September 2010, Israel joined the OECD,[8] which praised Israel’s scientific and technological progress and described it as having “produced outstanding outcomes on a world scale.”[9] Israel has also signed free trade agreements with the European Union, the United States, the European Free Trade Association, Turkey, Mexico, Canada, Jordan, Egypt, and on 18 December 2007, became the first non-Latin American country to sign a free trade agreement with the Mercosur trade bloc.[10][11]
          American billionaires and business tycoons including Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and Donald Trump have each praised Israel’s economic environment,[12] and the country was the destination for Berkshire Hathaway’s first investment outside of the USA when it purchased ISCAR Metalworking, and the first research and development centers outside the USA for companies including Intel and Microsoft. The high concentration of high-tech industries in Israel gave it the nickname “Silicon Wadi”, which is considered second in importance only to its Californian counterpart.[13][14]

        • American says:

          wikipedia?….wikipedia?

          As a “Accurate “source for the truth about Israel?
          LOL you have got to be kidding me.
          Anyone can write anything in wikipedia.

        • eee says:

          Really? Then try changing that entry to your “facts”. The article is well sourced also.

        • dimadok says:

          Thanks. It is very amusing to read these comments here. Most of the people here never set foot in Israel and yet made self-righteous remarks, which I presume gives them some sort of satisfaction. The exchange of views here is ridiculous and the use of words to describe us (Israelis) is appalling. So here I am spending some time here and punching hot air from them. You are not alone.

        • mig says:

          dimadok :

          “Thanks. It is very amusing to read these comments here.”

          ++++ You are mostly welcome, fun is all on our side.

          ” Most of the people here never set foot in Israel and yet made self-righteous remarks, which I presume gives them some sort of satisfaction.”

          ++++ Wrong, and just a little hint, ask before you make such remarks.

          ” The exchange of views here is ridiculous and the use of words to describe us (Israelis) is appalling.”

          ++++ They say that truth hurts.

          ” So here I am spending some time here and punching hot air from them.”

          ++++ Lovely. And before you continue, here is some homework for you.
          link to unispal.un.org

          And after few years when you have read those, you are welcome to come back.

          Have fun !

        • Shingo says:

          Thanks. It is very amusing to read these comments here.

          That’s hardly surprising comog from a Zionist. Only a Zionist could find humor in listenign to outrage over crimes against humanity, aopartheid, ethnci cleasing, mass murder and land theft.

          Hot air is probably the only thing you’ve ever punched.

        • Shingo says:

          I saw the rise and fall of Oslo accords…

          The same ones that Nenetyahu boasted about sabotaging right?

          So we shall endure, keep living our lives and protecting our families, while other side consider his steps.

          Living your lives and protecting your families where dimadok? In Isrlae or in the occupied territories?

          …while Palestinian society , after receiving about 100 bn USD in aid.

          Where did you gert the 100 billion figure from dimadok? None of your links alude to 100 billion, unelss you are confuising Palestinians with Israel.

          Your Wiki link states that the PA received the follwing sums, which comes to a grand total of 6.1billion.

          $929 million in 2001
          $891 million in 2003
          $1.1 billion in 2005
          $1.8 billion in 2008
          $1.4 billion in 2009

          So where did the other 94 billion come from?

          If Israel were viable state, they woudl be lving off the largetst aid payments in the world, not to mention the billions in annual loan guarantees (loans Israel doesn’t repay) and the preferntial trade agreements it has with the US, that the US giovernment ahs described as a $10 billion annual grant to Israel.

          I am pretty sure that without the massive foreign aid and unconditional US support, and living under 60 years of occupation, Israel too would be isintegrated and totally dependent of daily supplies of goods.

          As it stands, you’ve already succeedeed in cprioducing a hateful apartheid society.

        • Djinn says:

          Strange that such a robust economy needs to sponge billions of dollars a year from the US.

          Either Israel is an economic basket case OR you are willfully stealing from American working people who could perhaps use those billions for something of actual benefit to them, say the kind of healthcare and social welfare Israel provides to it’s citizens. So which is it eee?

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Keep in mind what eee’s academic record is like.

          In a word? Embarrassing. Eee wouldn’t know a documented fact from a hasbara spoon-feeding.

        • eljay says:

          >> Therefore, an argument that you are protecting yourself and your family falls on deaf ears since they will tell you that it should be expected that you are attacked since you are a colonialist.

          Yeah, it’s funny how the rapist’s argument that he is protecting himself from the victim’s punches AS HE CONTINUES TO RAPE HER falls on deaf ears.

          Your amusement at the fact that your country is an oppressor nation, and that thugs like you can’t get enough of shoving your hatred down other people’s throats, is distasteful. And your whines of ersatz victimhood are pathetic.

          But at least you have a new co-collectivist to play with in your sandbox. Goody for you. :-)

        • MLE says:

          Yeah- my uncle works in the Israeli diamond industry. Things aren’t looking so rosy there right now. Lots of second- rate stones while the high quality business is moving east.

        • Mooser says:

          “they will tell you that it should be expected that you are attacked since you are a colonialist. Yes, they are that extreme.”

          Because, as everybody knows, the Zionists only came to Palestine with the intent of spreading a light unto the Palestinians.
          But maybe I’m wrong, andd “eee” the “expert in international law” will tell us about the law which protects “colonialists”

        • Mooser says:

          As a Jew, and particularly as an American Jew, let me be the first tio apologise for “eee” and “dime-a-dozen” or whatever his name is.
          They just don’t know no better.

        • Djinn says:

          This is what I don’t get about the hasbaratchiks here and elsewhere, if my statements were so thoroughly and regularly discredited I’d be so embarrassed I’d slink away quietly. Although given they feel no shame about ethnic cleansing, occupation, collective punishment, torture and murder then expecting them to feel shame over their demonstrably false propaganda is unrealistic of me.

        • Cliff says:

          dimadok,

          You don’t know anything about the ‘majority’ of anti-Zionists here; their life stories, their travels, their motivations.

          You don’t know a damn thing. Yet, somehow you conclude that ‘most of them’ have never been to Israel.

          This is a common Zionist talking point. One that shows what a mental midget you are.

          No one has to visit Israel, to discuss this issue. No one has to pass an litmus test presented by some Zionist.

          Common Zionist talking points such as yours, essentially boil down to disregarding criticism of Israel because the criticism is being made by someone who does not fit a certain set of criteria.

          Well, that criteria is actually impractical. You cynically use it to dismiss anything negative about Israel, or quite simply the hard truths.

          You being an Israeli, just as an American being an American – does not imply any inherent intelligence or honesty or sincerity.

          That is demonstrated.

        • “They just don’t know no better”

          Yes they do.

          Ignorance is no justification for evil.

      • “I choose to be on the Israeli side and will do everything in my powers for it to prevail”

        Do they sound bugles when you guys defecate in Palestinian homes you’ve commandeered, and target practice on farmers and fishermen?

        Perhaps a medal….

        The Distinguised Big Pile Cross.

        Or, even more honorable; The Dead-Eye Farmer-Fragger Medal of Freedom??

        Or even an honor of lesser degree?

        Perhaps the Arms Competency Award, “for excellent accuracy and performance at targeting American citizens with outlawed high velocity tear gas cinisters”. Three head shots, and VOILA!!! You’re a hero!!!!

      • Shingo says:

        Would you feel disgust by that?

        Who wouldn’t be disgusted by this?
        link to youtube.com

        What business did those IDF troops habve in Ramallah? Oh that’s right, they were there to enforece the occupation that is stealing Palestionian land, evicting Paelstiniasn from theri homes, demiolishing them, ethnically cleasing them and mass murdering them.

        Please tell me where are your morals Diamadok, because I know where you were standing was on someone else’s land that your government and people were stealing, not to mention killing those that resisted your land grabs.

        Israel is indeed a very convenient target for the outburst of rage, anger, because it’s policies evoke rage and anger and outrage.

        It’s easily forgettable that there are two parts to that conflict…

        Let’s not forget that in a rape, the assailant is a victim tooo right dimadok? What right does a woman have to deny a man an orgasm?

        I choose to be on the Israeli side and will do everything in my powers for it to prevail.

        In making that choice, you also chose to support ethnic cleansing, land theft, colonialism, apartheid and mass murder.

        There’s no pointr complaining about the fact that humans are predicposed to being digusted by such policies.

  18. You didn’t feel that it was relevant to post my comment that the term “victorious” is a war term, a recipe for permanent war, as if that status is a “democratic” one.

    • eljay says:

      >> You didn’t feel that it was relevant to post my comment that the term “victorious” is a war term, a recipe for permanent war, as if that status is a “democratic” one.

      Since you’re worried that a single word represents “a recipe for permanent war”, you should be beside yourself with concern at maxNarr’s latest (re-hashed) proclamation:
      >> All should remember that since San Remo, the Sovereigny of the Jewish people over the entire Land of Israel, from the med to the sea is enshrined in International law. Nobody can successfully argue otherwise.

      That there is “a recipe for permanent war” if I ever saw one. You might want to express your disapproval to his comment in that thread.

      • tree says:

        …. from the med to the sea. ???

        Is that what he said? He does know that “the med” IS the sea, doesn’t he? That makes for a less than infinitesimal “Land of Israel”. Not too bright that one.

        • eljay says:

          >> He does know that “the med” IS the sea, doesn’t he?

          My guess is that he meant the Sea of Galilee. Regardless, “Sovereigny of the Jewish people over the entire Land of Israel” is clearly “a recipe for permanent war”. RW really should express his disapproval of such language.

    • Chaos4700 says:

      And the Knesset calls the siege of Gaza a “diet” and has openly threatened “shoah” against Palestinians. You never felt motivated to react to that.

    • Koshiro says:

      “Victorious” is actually the end to a conflict (not a war, since you can be victorious in all kinds of conflict), so it’s the opposite of permanent war.

      And again, you ignore reality by ignoring the fact that the Palestinians are being assailed by an intractable enemy – the state of Israel – all the time.

    • Cliff says:

      Dick, invents definitions and context all within the Zionist blinders.

      Dick states that discussing ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 48′ is academic, but his disgusting equivocations (removing illegal Jewish colonies and colonists, which are expanding at the expense of the Palestinian peoples’ humanity, identity, lives, very existence) are legitimate?

      Dick endorse ethnic cleansing, then weasels (polite way of describing his racism) his way out of the accusation of hypocrisy by re-defining ethnic cleansing.

      This is the guy Phil awards his very own post. A bastion of ‘liberal’ Zionism.

      This is why Zionism is a fascist ideology.

  19. Rag says:

    Is that really correct uniform for the Israeli military? To me, looking at those pictures, the only thing separating him from a random person wearing green is the weapon, and some small marking on the shoulder. No other insignia, belt with equipment or anything, and a bare head. Looks unprofessional (even before the behavior) .

    I’m quite new on this site, and have not really paid enough attention earlier in my life, so pardon what is probably a stupid question.

    A translation of what is being said would be invaluable, I’m really curious about what is being said.

  20. Online “tough guys”, proffessing to be bigger-than-life soldiers, have always intrigued me. I always get this image of someone sitting in front of their monitor, fat, wrinkled and aged, bath robe frayed, clicking back and forth between their favorite porn site and their favorite political blog. Armed and dangerous with the only “gun” they’ve ever shot in their life.

  21. Aw, c’mon, monitor! If they can insult our intelligence, can’t I at least insult their sensitivities? Where’s your sense of humor?