Artist imagines return to Jewish homeland (Poland)

bartana
Production Still from Bartana’s film Assassination, which imagines a Jewish leader’s assassination in Poland. Photo by Marcin Kalinski

In this year’s Biennale of Art in Venice, Poland is represented by Israeli Artist Yael Bartana. Her project grew from the idea of re-birth of Jewish nation in Land of Vistual River [i.e., Poland]

From an art publication‘s description of Bartana’s imaginary work:

‘We long to write new pages into a history that never quite took the course we wanted.’

So reads part of the manifesto of the [fictional] Jewish Renaissance Movement in Poland that could be collected from the Polish pavilion in Venice this year. The three [Bartana’ films that form the main content of the pavilion chart the rise of this organisation (in Mary Kozsmary, 2007), the successful establishment of its followers (in Mur I Weizar, 2009) and the assassination of its leader Slawomir Sierakowski (in Zamach, 2011).

The manifesto and the first film in the trilogy are expressions of the Zionist hope for Jews to return to their homeland (i.e. Israel), but transposed to Poland. In Mary Kozsmary the young Polish activist Slawomir Sierakowski calls for the three million Jews who left Poland as a result of WWII to re-settle in his country. One culture, one religion is no longer enough for the country they left, and only a repopulation will resolve the atrocities committed in the past.

( h/t to dumvitaestspesest)

  1. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Poland and Germany once again both welcomed and attracted Jews, to “return” from their exile in Israel? That would not erase the Holocaust, but somehow put it to a kind of rest.

    It would also, if the re-immigration were large enough, put the lie to the idea of Israel as the only (or even the essential) safe place for Jews to live.

    Be nice if Poland and Germany LOUDLY said “sorry” to the returning Jews and if the latter LOUDLY said “sorry” to the Palestinians they’d displaced.

    • It would be nice but it won’t happen. Israel would make sure that any liberal European politicians who talk about that would effectively be committing political suicide. The last thing Israel wants is reconciliation — anywhere. ESPECIALLY from states that are gifting “Holocaust reparations” to fund a clandestine nuclear program.

    • “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if Poland and Germany once again both welcomed and attracted Jews, to “return” from their exile in Israel? That would not erase the Holocaust, but somehow put it to a kind of rest.”

      It’s nauseating how you people just make up facts and then draw ridiculous conclusions from it. You obviously do not have a clue about the extend to which Germany has ‘welcomed and attracted Jews’ for a long time since WW II. Why comment on issues you know nothing about, substituting stereotypes abstracted from God knows where for reality? What does it even mean to ‘erase the Holocaust’ or ‘put it to a kind of rest’? Plain gibberish.

      “It would also, if the re-immigration were large enough, put the lie to the idea of Israel as the only (or even the essential) safe place for Jews to live.”

      Re-immigration to Germany has been large and continues to grow and there is overwhelming evidence already that Israel is not the only safe place for Jews to live, even if there wasn’t a single Jew living in Germany or Poland.

      “Be nice if Poland and Germany LOUDLY said “sorry” to the returning Jews ”

      Generally speaking, Poland, as ‘Christ among the nations’, doesn’t say sorry to anyone. As for Germany, you have obviously been living under a rock. But why should Germans who played no role whatsoever in the Holocaust apologize to ‘returning’ Jews who never suffered in it? I reject such primitive, tribal notions of collective guilt and innocence into the 3rd and 4rth generation. Find some other country to satisfy your idiotic, archaic notions of justice.

      And I’m sick and tired of the endless distortions of history. German (and Austrian) Jews suffered no more than other Western European Jews during the Third Reich and WW II. It’s rather questionable whether, all things considered, they suffered more than the Germans, and there’s nothing new or ‘revisionist’ about this. Current mainstream scholarship simply confirms what one finds, among other sources, in a report published in July 45:

      link to archive.jta.org

      So yes, the numbers have changed somewhat since 45, and estimates re how many Jews still lived in the Reich in 45 (not counting DPs) range between 20 000 and 200 000. Then there’s the question who counts as a Jew, a question for which Nazi Germany found no more definite answer than Zionist Israel. The 45 report estimates there were 300 000 ‘half Jews’ etc in Nazi Germany – a wild guess at best – and most of them died. This would include 150 000 ‘Jewish’ soldiers in the Wehrmacht. If they died, and many no doubt did, are they Holocaust victims? Is Goering’s deputy Milch, sentenced at Nuremberg, a victim of Nazi persecution? There were plenty of ‘honorary Aryans’ in the highest ranks of the Nazi leadership who would qualify for ROR to Israel today. They include SS – founder Emil Maurice who was SS member no. 2 (no.1 being Hitler), and even Heydrich, architect of the Holocaust and ‘butcher of Prague’. His assassination in 42 led to the major war crime committed by the Nazis in the Protectorate – the destruction of Lidice and another Czech village. Heydrich’s assassination was not the work of the practically non-existent Czech resistance, but a false flag operation planned and executed by Benes and the British SOE. Google ‘Operation Anthropoid’. The results – disproportionate retaliation – were entirely predictable and calculated to incite anti-German sentiment and facilitate the expulsion of 3 million Germans at the end of the war – a scheme Czech nationalists hd pursued long before Hitler. Benes is responsible for the death of many more Germans than Heydrich and the Nazis, and the Czechs destroyed several hundred German villages in ‘just reprisal’ for the Nazis destroying 2 Czech villages. Who is going to apologize to the Germans? Not the Czechs, who keep the Benes decrees on the books, including the amnesty decree that declares all crimes committed against Germans and Hungarians, no matter how horrendous, to be nothing but a ‘just reprisal’.

    • Another yes yes and yes.

      Have always noticed that in the endless reminders in the US MSM about the WWII holocaust…books, movies, radio programs etc etc. There is little to absolutely no attention on the 3 million Poles who were murdered during the Holocaust, Gypsies etc. This is almost always the case

      Not sure what the exact numbers of the “others” who were slaughtered during the Holocaust because there has been very little mentioned or written about the “others”
      link to holocaustforgotten.com

      • “Not sure what the exact numbers of the “others” who were slaughtered during the Holocaust because there has been very little mentioned or written about the “others””

        Nonsense. Get yourself to a decent library. Anyone who relies on US MSM (or any other MSM) for obtaining an even half-adequate view of WW II and the Holocaust is doomed to be misled. Do you believe the distortion is any less abysmal as it is in the case of the history of the I/P conflict, or that there is no connection between the two issues?

      • I saw on here I think it was, someone post about the number of deaths reduced on one camp , Auschwitz I believe, from somewhere around 4 million down to 1 and 1/2 million.
        That’s a reduction of 2 and 1/2 million. Someone must have had something convincing to get that death count reduced. The Holocaust industry would have fought that tooth and nail otherwise.
        I’ve never heard any explaination as to why it was reduced but it impacts the total number of Jewish deaths claimed by almost half if the numbers given for the death camps represented mostly Jews.

        Then I read that records from the Germans were released or found some time ago but given to some Holocaust agency but I don’t think they are available to the public. I think you have to make an inquiry about some specific name or person and then they will tell you if he or she is listed in the records.
        Anyone know anything about this?

        • Actually according to Auschwitz-Birkenau web site, out of 1.3 Million imprisoned, 1.1 Million lost their lives there ,….

          •960 000 Jews, almost all of them murdered in Birkenau not Auschwitz *

          •438 000 from Hungary **
          •300 000 from Poland
          •70 000 from France
          •60 000 from Holland
          •55 000 from Greece
          •46 000 from Czech/Moravia
          •26 000 from Slovakia
          •24 000 from Belgium
          •23 000 from Germany and Austria
          •10 000 from Yugoslavia
          •75 000 Poles
          •21 000 Romas
          •15 000 Soviet POW’s
          •15 000 Others (nationalities)
          ————————————-
          * Auschwitz sells better
          ** Due to Kastner/Eichman deal to spare 1600 Jews related to an influential Zionists. Around 150 000 ended up in other death camps.

        • The Hungarian Jews were all murdered in 1944 after the Allies discovered what the Germans were doing. They had been sheltered up until 1944 by the hungarian government but then the Germans took over and they were doomed. The Zionists didn’t do anything to save them. They just wanted to get their own people out. The Americans and British wouldn’t bomb Auschwitz. The Russians allowed the Germans to destroy Warsaw but did nothing for the Hungarian Jews.

          Appalling.

        • Americans shouldn’t have been involved in foreign wars as they were not in the broad National interest, especially any foreign European wars(See Washington, Jefferson, Adams et.al.) which are seemingly endless. The ethnic Europeans are always at war, that’s what we should have escaped, almost.
          Jews and Greeks(et.al.) are not our responsibility, Americans are. Unfortunately, wealthy, powerful, corrupt Jewish political interests are and have been very profitable for corrupt Democrats since Harry Truman. McCain lately as well. See the save he got financially in the last election when he was 20 points behind. In four weeks, 40 million made the difference. Just like Truman, huge amounts of cash in the last 4 weeks of the election campaign saved his bacon. Yes, it’s that easy.
          Hej!

        • “The Americans and British wouldn’t bomb Auschwitz.”

          They did have a few other things to think about at the time.

          But I’ve never been entirely clear how the Jews incarcerated in Auschwitz would have been helped by a flight of Lancasters dropping 500 lb and 4,000 lb bombs onto them.

        • “The Hungarian Jews were all murdered in 1944 after the Allies discovered what the Germans were doing….The Zionists didn’t do anything to save them. They just wanted to get their own people out …. “

          The disgraceful blame-on-the-Zionists-game goes on unabashed. Fact is: It was the Nazis who destroyed the Jewish communities in Europe, including the Hungarian Jews, while the allied forces were closing both eyes on the genocide. The Zionists did everything it could to save the lives of their brothers, but the means and influence at their disposal were limited. Nevertheless, the Ungarian Zionist movement became active very soon to help the persecuted Jews escape deportation.
          link to www1.yadvashem.org

          It is believed that Eichmann offered to “exchange” one million Jews for certain unspecified goods. The Zionist leaders discussed the issue
          link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org, but the deal was never finalized, due to Allied objections.

          Accusing the Zionists for having saved ‘only’ few thousand Hungarian Jews, while other 150’000 were killed in Auschwitz, means turn things upside down and pretend it’s true. This attitude must be called appalling here, not what the Zionist did in 1944.

        • jonah, i can appreciate your immediate emotional reaction, but you are confusing ‘blaming the victims’ with blaming zionists. many zionists cynically exploited the circumstances to promote their dream of eretz israel, even going so far as to blow up a ship-load (SS Patria) of european jews in haifa, rather than have british authorities turn them to a safe haven (mauritius) other than palestine. are the effing geniuses in the haganah who came up with this plan, murdering hundreds of jews who were lucky enough to get out of occupied europe, ‘victims of blame’?

        • “But I’ve never been entirely clear how the Jews incarcerated in Auschwitz would have been helped by a flight of Lancasters dropping 500 lb and 4,000 lb bombs onto them.”

          Me either…and I have looked into this throughly.
          This has always been an idiotic complaint.
          Obviously it would have killed the inmates of the camps, not just nazis.
          Made absolutely no sense.

        • “But I’ve never been entirely clear how the Jews incarcerated in Auschwitz would have been helped by a flight of Lancasters dropping 500 lb and 4,000 lb bombs onto them.”

          Me either…and I have looked into this throughly.
          This has always been an idiotic complaint.
          Obviously it would have killed the inmates of the camps, not just nazis.
          Made absolutely no sense.

          It makes sense to me. The killing at Auchwitz (as well the other death camps) was industrialized. The percentage of those killed who went from the trains to the gas chambers and never hit a barracks was incredible.

          The theory goes that if you bomb the camp and destroy the gas chambers/crematoria, you wouldn’t be saving the people who were then in the camp necessarily* but would save those who would have been shipped form the ghettos to the camps, because the camps (especially the Aktion Reinhardt camps) were specifically designed so as not to be able to house the vast majority of people who were sent there. Thus, if you destroy the gas chambers/crematoria, you slow/stop the shipment of people to the camps and, perhaps, those people (or some of them) would survive who would otherwise have been killed.

          Whether it would have worked, we can only speculate. But the theory has validity.

          *(although some may have escaped due to the bombing, although how many and how much, given the Auschwitz exclusive area of control, is another question)

        • I believe the idea was that destroying the death mechanisms would have saved the lives of those who would have been shipped there later. A dubious proposition. The Gestapo still had plenty of bullets.

        • “But I’ve never been entirely clear how the Jews incarcerated in Auschwitz would have been helped by a flight of Lancasters dropping 500 lb and 4,000 lb bombs onto them.”

          Auschwitz was a “death factory”. Many of the people that arrived there were taken to the gas chambers right away. The people in the camp were only a small number of total number killed in Auschwitz. If the camp and the rail system leading to it would have been bombed, the German ability to execute Jews would have greatly diminished. Yes, many Jews would have died in those bombings. But it was a sacrifice that was worth it. It would have saved multitudes of other Jews.

        • “A dubious proposition. The Gestapo still had plenty of bullets.”

          Well, it wouldn’t have been under the Gestapo, at any rate. But you would still have the same problems (as the Nazis saw it) that led to the building of the camps (speed, impact on the shooters, etc.) in the first place. So the theory is not so dubious at all, in my opinion.

        • Not only the zionists in Palestine but the influential Jewish leadership in US strong enough to secure US vote at UN to create Israel.

          Twice, in ’42 and ’43 Jan Karski (Polish courier) informed Jewish authorities in GB and US about the extermination of Jews in occupied Poland – Nothing was done to save them.

        • “Except for fighting (and sacrificing the lives of their soldiers) in the war against Germany…”

          Except that they were doing that anyway and not as a favor to the Jews.

        • “Except that they were doing that anyway and not as a favor to the Jews.”

          The issue, as presented, was whether they did anything to stop the Germans. The issue was not whether they did something they were not already doing or did something “as a favor to the Jews.” As a matter of unimpeachable historical fact, the Allies’ action in defeating the Germans saved the lives of Jews in Europe.

        • Correction ** ,…

          ** ** Due to Kastner/Eichman deal to spare 1600 Jews related to an influential Zionists. Around 150 000 ended up in other death camps.

          Should be:

          ** Due to Kastner/Eichman deal to spare 1600 Jews related to an influential Zionists around 600 000 perished in death camps, 450 000 in Birkenau, and 150 000 in other camps.

        • “Nothing was done to save them.”

          Except, of course, for the efforts of Chiune Sugihara, Per Anger, Raoul Wallenberg, Count Folke Bernadotte (who was thanked nicely by the Irgun), Aristedes de Sousa Mendes, Khaled Abdul Wahab, Dom Roberto de Castro Brandão, Hiram Bingham IV, Frank Foley, José Castellanos Contreras, Kiichiro Higuchi, İsmail Necdet Kent, Abdol-Hossein Sardari (The evil Iranians made a TV program about him) Ho Feng Shan, Jaap Penraat, Sir Nicholas Winton, etc., etc.

        • Well I just have to disagree…what expert opinion do you base your belief on?
          Every military opinion I found when looking into this nixed the idea as worthless in terms of accomplishing anything/saving any lives.
          We had a long discusison on this about a month ago and during that time I found a recent dispute about where the gas chambers even were….at one camp where they claimed them they were supposedly located outside of the camp itself…in houses….but if that is true it’s another detail no one knew it at the time.
          You can probably look this up and find it , didn’t save the site it was on.

        • “the Hungarian Jews. ” Well, here we have an Israeli court verdict and a court transcript and a famous, maybe infamous screenplay(I’d love to see it produced).
          It seems the Palestinian Zionists(Ben Gurion) and what remained of the SS/Gestapo collaborated on the most efficient transfers of Budapest Jews to the death camps. The last big SS operation ocured with substantial Palestinian Zionist cooperation. They made it possible.

          The Red Army was over 400 kilometers away, but moving fast. If you want the Israeli court transcript, the sole women judge was the only female judge of the 3 Israeli judges that sentenced Eichmann and was the presiding judge in this particular case. The court transcript was available in Hebrew the last time I checked and had been translated.

          The Israeli government official on trial, the accused was assassinated by a Mossad Agent on the steps of the Israeli Supreme Court in the late 50′s during the appeal of his conviction where he was being defended by the Israeli government?

          Excellent screenplay by the Austrian Jew thatwas the primary witness, don’t you think. This same Israeli was peddling an excellent screenplay for many years, I have a copy. Good luck getting it produced, but what a soap opera?

          Hej!

  2. “the three million Jews who left Poland as a result of WWII”

    Most of them were murdered by the Germans in Poland. The Zionists only got the remnants of the community.

    • seafoid,
      do you have a numerical basis you can provide with links? Anything? Or is this more wild unsupported Z.B.S.? Were there three million Jews in Poland? Please don’t cite the Alan Hevesi Swiss extortion figures as he’s still in prison over those numbers. How many Jews are living in Poland today? How many in Germany? How many in Teheran? How many in the States? Links please. There are plenty of good links to be to be found in Israel, what do you have? Wild speculation? Who exactly was murdered as opposed to dying from cholera infected fleas? You have exact numbers, any numbers?

      Just for your edification, my numbers interestingly enough identify the second largest Jewish community in the ME as residing in Iran. What do your figures reveal? I find this interesting because American Zionist groups have standing offers of about $100,000.00 for any one of them to leave to anywhere they want(Perhaps I should move to Teheran). They can’t get any takers among Iranian Jews. Could it be that Iranian Jews have guaranteed representation in the Iran Parliament and more rights than Palestinians? They, as are all non-Muslims, exempt from Islamic law restrictions, unlike non-Jews in Palestine or Brooklyn. Check the Israeli press.

      As for Auschwitz, it wasn’t bombed because because it was outside the range of heavy bombers hence a big part of it’s value. It sat on the richest coal vein in Europe and had a huge industrial city manned by slave labor to turn the coal into petrol and explosives. As all German men were engaged fighting the Russian Communists , it was among the most valuable labor in Europe. An irony not lost on Himmler. Here’s a surprise, it wasn’t all Jewish, not by a long shot. Auschwitz even had gentile celebrities. Eric Honeker, the East German Dictator for life was an electrician in Auschwitz for several years. He and all the other German Socialists/Communists arrived way before the Jewish bourgeois. Upon liberation, he incarcerated the very same Nazis survivors in the very same camps(other than the ones that he executed, of course). So you see, many more innocent people than just the Jews suffered during this time period.

      While you’re doing your homework, look up who he staffed the Stazi with? Look up who Pollard’s handlers were and the East German/Israeli link to his undoing?

      As for Hungarian Jews, we have Israeli court transcripts and a long dead, but excellent, but unproduced screenplay by the complainant to rely on, don’t we? Especially the court transcripts of a trial conducted by the sole female Israeli Judge(of the three) who sentenced Eichmann to death . A riveting story for those of you who are unfamiliar with it. It seems that the Palestinian Jewish leadership collaborated intimately with the SS in Austria to achieve an efficient transfer, unlike the Warsaw Ghetto. With the Red Army only 300 kilometers away, they bargained for the best prizes with the last of the SS fanatics and the rest were escorted to the trains by their new Zionist friends. The Israeli defendants were convicted, but before a political crisis could develop from the blackmail that resulted, the main witness was assassinated on the steps of the Israeli Supreme Court by a Mossad agent who was later convicted of the crime. What a screenplay! And some of you thought we were in trouble because of the relationship?
      Hej!

      • “Are you promoting this here, or are you criticising this idea??”

        Neither. You made a very perceptive remark in the other post about how ambivalent at the best and downright hostile at worst Polish people are at the idea of Jews coming back to Poland. I find idea disturbing myself. And I feel deeply uncomfortable at feeling the way I feel.

        The video touches all the buttons and makes me question myself in the way that any work of art should. This makes it, for me, a very powerful piece of work.

        The review by Karol Sienkiewicz is expressing the same ambivalence of feeling – of all concerned.

        He writes:
        [translation mine]:
        “Avi Pitchon, Israeli writer and artist, writes that Bartana only names and frames a foundation myth for the process that is already underway: devaluation of idea of Zion between Israelis and ongoing emigration to Europe (though not necessarily to Poland).
        Israel “does not offer them [opportunity] to fulfil their basic human needs”. In this situation, Israeli-ness becomes an international phenomenon, straining ideas of zionism. This reborn community bases itself on co-participation in history of Europe.”

        • yael Bartana is doing something amazing. Go watch the video Eva links to. Also google ‘Medinat Weimar’ another interesting art project that asks similar questions.
          Behind the question of Palestine is the question of Poland. Bartana is doing some very useful reimagining here. Given that Jews of Polish are in a way Israeli WASP’s, these questions strike at the heart of transnational, transgenerational, pre, post, and full on Zionist sensibilities.
          When I first saw the project, I had chills and could stop sharing it with friends for a while.

        • thank you, eva, for this post. and thank you even more for your honesty, which adds a depth absent from our 21st century tendency to reduce any issue to a marketing survey. (my informal poll of 300 european males between the ages of 27 of 43 found that 37% are ‘for this idea’; 33% are ‘against’; and 30% are uncertain. does that shed any light on the topic?)

          what disturbs me about the display and the commentary is the continual conflation of WWII and the holocaust; as if millions of gentiles weren’t murdered, starved, displaced by the war. many of my polish relatives had the foresight/luck to have fled Europe in the 30′s before the next stage in the millenia-long european civil war was set in motion, leaving for the States or South America. most unfortunately stayed behind, as if they had a choice in the matter, my male relatives being conscripted into the Red Army, victims of geography. what is going to be done to ‘welcome’ back the millions of east europeans displaced from their homes, pushed into the USSR by german forces, conscripted into the military or forced to work in factories in the USSR, Germany or elsewhere? where is eeee to tell us that he only gives a sh*t about ‘his family’, which only natural, so he says, and then whining on about the perceived lack of sympathy for jewish suffering?

          i think it was donald who i criticized before for promoting ‘bloodlands’. i was wrong. it is a well done examination of the meat grinder of politics in central europe during the war. curiously, it turns out, the nazis and soviet communists murdered millions of non-jews, the polish aristocracy/intelligentsia being the primary target of the nazi murder plot initially.

        • Gosh I dont find it disturbing. Half of the Jews of Europe were exterminated in the Holocaust, and central European powers bore responsibility. Poland was the homeland of Jews. Why isn’t this a just answer? It’s not about Israelness or Zionism, it’s about rights of return, which this community honors for Palestinians….

  3. Perhaps this is not the place for the this comment, but the discussion of Poland brought to mind German films from occupied parts of Poland in World War I. Polish Jews cheering the arrival of German troop trains who I suspect they hoped would save them from the excesses of their lives amongst Polish Catholics? Something I understand!
    From an American perspective and an unwilling son of the Jim Crow south, in hindsight I will admit, I think I would have preferred, life as a German or Polish Jew as opposed to life as a black person in say South Carolina, Alabama or Mississippi until maybe 1940.
    No doubt about it, I would have wanted to be an American or European Jew way before being black during any of the previous decades. German Jews were well integrated and very successful until the late 30′s compared to minorities in this country for many decades if not centuries. European Jews were inconvenienced at most, in comparison.
    Forget the late 19th Century in America, I’m not sure anyone here could have survived the walk to Oklahoma or the North, a few did. I’m not a grass eater. Well, not so far, never been that hungry. A bit worse than “The Color Purple”. But I did see those parts of this country as a white child from the perspective of a secret(a necessity), non-racist family in the 1950′s. A National “Crystal-Nacht” was not possible, nor necessary in America then because there were few if any successful black endeavors to destroy as they were completely under the thumb. The few that sprung up over time were crushed immediately or co-opted by the Klan. It was never possible because they couldn’t pass. No way out for “time immemorial”. It was simply never allowed to get started. I have several successful Jewish stories in my family that managed in that time period in the south, quite nicely.
    The Jews complain of what was lost in Europe, American blacks never had any of that to lose, but the Jewish media focus is always, constantly what European Jews lost in a few years of massive worldwide turmoil? There were others as well, everywhere.
    The woods in the South (and the North I imagine are next) are full of yet to be discovered Plantation system black graves that will easily number in the hundreds of thousands or more, if your counting? They’ve found quite a few larger than expected graveyards lately, the chain gang, plantation prison system with decades, centuries of victims, but the constant drumbeat is a couple of years in Europe where everyone was dying like flies(or was it fleas or lead)?
    This is Jewish Hollywood’s deal with the American Devil. We ignore your victims if you concentrate on ours. Comfortable, isn’t it. We have our own American Holocausts, but American media discounts them completely in comparison, while promoting wild stories of the greatest evil beast, the Germans. If the war had not intervened, the Nazis would probably been successful in forcing the Jews to leave(a bad idea), but they had their own problems with many bad strategies, especially from 1917 to 1945. The Germans were a very abused people as a consequence of WW1, their own Holocaust. One nasty event does seem to spawn another, don’t you think?
    Sometimes, I think Modoweisser’s get entirely too focused on the the Hasbara comment of moment which provides the IDF Hasbara Corporals(and other terrified children) with their opportunity to distract from history’s narrative. It takes way too much energy to dispute their talking points and what’s the point? Their deluded fanatics, at best.

    Phil, an ignore button please? A Mondoweiss BDS effort of a sort. Hitting the ignore button is definitely a statement. For all of you that would have put me on ignore, if you could, I will be leaving as I seem to have drawn some attention lately. It’s only prudent.
    Hej! Tumta

    • “the Jewish media focus is always, constantly what European Jews lost in a few years of massive worldwide turmoil? There were others as well, everywhere.”

      I have seen estimates of two million houses destroyed in Britain alone. That’s just houses. Not factories, shops, or other business premises.

    • Hej Tumta!

      I appreciate the way you brought the suffering of black people in America into light. It is definitely ignored in mainstream media and in Hollywood.

      Same with destruction of American Indians in settling of the country.

      I also reflected on the image you painted of Polish Jews welcoming German occupiers entering Poland at the beginning of World War II.

      There has always been a source of friction between Polish and Jewish inhabitants of Poland that the latter cooperated cheerfully with Occupiers at the time when Poland was (like Kurdistan) parcelled out between Russia, Austri0-Hungarian Empire and Prussia and didn’t officially exist as a country through the entire 19th century.

      That sense of Jews acting for their own tribal benefit while being unconcerned with fate of their host countrymen has been probably just as powerful in creating Anti-Semitic feelings between Poles as was concept of Jews as Christ killers.

      • “I also reflected on the image you painted of Polish Jews welcoming German occupiers entering Poland at the beginning of World War II. ”
        Eva , it was NOT WWII.
        It was WWI .
        Big difference.
        A lot of Polish people still remember the image of Polish Jews welcoming Russian occupiers entering Poland on and after September 17 1939.

        You are right, that there is a strong ” sense of Jews acting for their own tribal benefit while being unconcerned with fate of their host countrymen has been probably just as powerful in creating Anti-Semitic feelings .”

        • How does this differ from other ethnic rivalries – elsewhere, or even in Poland itself (vis-à-vis Ukrainians or Germans, for example)? If my understanding of Polish history is correct, significant progress was made in the interwar period (as well as a certain amount of regression) by the minorities as well as the majority in creating a broader Polish identity. I’m sure you are more familiar than I am with some of the contributions made by Jews to general Polish culture and life before the war. It’s difficult to say where this process might have led.

          I met a Jewish Polish actor a few months ago (born in Lvov in the 1960s, but lived most of his life in Warsaw) who said both that he “identified himself in Polish culture” and that he considered Yiddish “a great Polish language”.

        • Poland , until 11.11.1918, was officially non-existing as a country for 123 years prior to that. It was partitioned by three major European Powers at that time (Russia, Germany, Austria).

          “Partitions of Poland or Partitions of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth took place in the second half of the 18th century and ENDED THE EXISTENCE of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth, resulting in the ELIMINATION of SOVEREIGN POLAND for 123 years. The partitions were perpetrated by the Russian Empire, the Kingdom of Prussia and Habsburg Austria, which divided up the Commonwealth lands among themselves progressively in the process of territorial seizures.
          The First Partition of Poland, on August 5, 1772.
          Two decades later, Russian and Prussian troops entered Poland again and the Second Partition was signed on January 23, 1793.
          The Third Partition took place on October 24, 1795, as soon as the Polish Kościuszko Uprising was defeated.
          With this partition, the INDEPENDENT STATE of Poland-Lithuania CEASED TO EXIST.”

          The interesting thing is that Turkey was THE ONLY STATE IN THE WORLD that never officially acknowledged it.
          “The Ottoman Empire was the only country in the world that refused to accept the liquidation of the Republic of Poland as a result of partition , and RESERVED A PLACE IN ITS DIPLOMATIC CORPS for an Ambassador of Lehistan (Poland).”
          “Throughout the nineteenth century at the gatherings of the Diplomatic Corps of the Sublime Porte (the Ottoman empire),
          the Ottoman chef de protocol would call on His Excellency, the Ambassador of Lechistan (as Poland was known to Turks),
          to step forward, and an aide would announce his regrets for the ambassador’s temporary indisposition.”

          Thank you Turkey. We remember it.

          link to en.wikipedia.org

      • I’m sure the Polish Jews were happy to see the German troop Trains in WWI for a reason, don’t you think? Desperate people appreciate whomever they think might help them. That’s been my experience.

      • Well, I might have spoken out in defense of my own American Atheist tribal roots having grown up in Baptist, Catholic and on and on non-secular America.
        If you don’t tell me, I’d never ask because I don’t care. I was just trying to point out the irony of certain history which seemingly totally reversed itself in less than two decades.
        This American seems to sometimes get both sides of very old arguments I’m not part of. Story of my life. Not that I should take sides, I shouldn’t have to but here I am still waiting!
        Hej!

  4. Shmuel, you said:

    I’m sure you are more familiar than I am with some of the contributions made by Jews to general Polish culture and life before the war. It’s difficult to say where this process might have led.

    I met a Jewish Polish actor a few months ago (born in Lvov in the 1960s, but lived most of his life in Warsaw) who said both that he “identified himself in Polish culture” and that he considered Yiddish “a great Polish language”.”

    I was brought up on literary offerings of Jewish Poles:
    Korczak, Brzechwa, Tuwim, then Lesmian, later still Shulz. I cannot imagine polish literature without their creativity. And I never knew they were “different” i.e. jewish. They spoke to common humanity of their readers without disqualifying any of them by religion. Those wonderful people are un-separable part of polish culture and their work is cherished by generation after generation of Poles – of any and all religions.

    • ‘Korczak, Brzechwa, Tuwim, then Lesmian’ – They didn’t identify themselves as Jews and out of respect you shuldn’t either.

      • They didn’t identify themselves as Jews

        Judging by a quickie-wiki, at least Korczak (involvement with Jewish orphans, Jewish camp, Jewish paper, Palestine) and Tuwim (author of “My, Żydzi Polscy” [We, Polish Jews]) did.

        and out of respect you shuldn’t either.

        Why? Is it a disease? An insult? Incompatible with being Polish? At worst, it is an incorrect assumption based on their ethnic origins.

      • split, you wrote:

        ‘Korczak, Brzechwa, Tuwim, then Lesmian’ – They didn’t identify themselves as Jews and out of respect you shuldn’t either.

        Out of respect for what? What exactly do you want me to respect?
        Are you implying that Brzechwa was deliberately hiding his ancestral roots? Should I respect that?
        Are you implying that Lesmian was ashamed of being Jewish Pole rather than Polish Jew? Should I respect that?

        Their contemporary, Marian Hemar, playwright and poet, wrote the following [translation mine]:

        (…) Regardless from
        which town I’m from
        King Piast is not
        my ancester.

        No polish blood, due to chance
        and details on my birth certificate.
        And yet my ambition is to be
        a volunteer Pole.

        Professional and not conscripted.
        Not sure since -
        since reading “Lila Weneda”
        Or “Father of Stricken by Plague”?(…)

        In Israel, I could have been
        a Satirical Star
        And yet, it would never come to be
        as I am a Pole, an amateur.

        Let me remain convinced that poetry has ability to heal the chasms in society due to racial and cultural differences and mutual distrust.

        • ‘Are you implying that Lesmian was ashamed of being Jewish’

          Ain’t implying anything, just noted that they didn’t identify themselves as Jews and if that was their wish you should respect it ,…

  5. I don’t care if you think you’re Polish or Jewish or anything else. I do care if you intend to bring these ethnic animosities/disasters into my American political life. Not saying I can stop you, but I would if I could.
    Hej!