Thanks, my enemy. I love Palestine

ActivismIsrael/Palestine
on 161 Comments
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Palestine flag-face, artist unknown occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com

Every time I happen to think of Palestine, pretty fast beats my heart. It takes me back in memory to my grandpa’s orange field, my grandma’s embroideries, and my pa’s textile doll. All I have – all new Palestinian generations have – is what our ancestors tell about Palestine. I behold every grain of sand Palestine has in their eyes; I smell the smell of the old land in their palms. I have my own Palestine; they have theirs!

I have read the history of the Canaanites, the Persians, the Babylonians, the Wanderers, Alexander’s the Great –with his ups and downs-, the French, the English, the World War I, the World War II , the Ottomans, and the Arabs, but I never found Palestine. You murdered Palestine; you eliminated us. Even your books cannot recognise us!

We have never been invaders. We are landowners. But you cannot admit it; the first time you do, you condemn yourselves. You expose yourselves. Our lands have always been occupied; our blood has always been shed. You always tear our soft bodies apart. You smash our bones. You burn our flesh. For GOD’s sake, WE ARE HUMANS! Just let go. Leave us. Do not kill us. Do not destroy us. It is you… YES! You! You always start it all. Do you not live without killing? Can you not ignore me? Just ignore me. Think I am invisible. I want peace: for me, for you, for every living thing. Please, help me live in peace.

You call me names? You call me ‘terrorist’?!! You step on me; you fuck me; you steal my land; you abduct my child; you rape my wife; you lock up my brother; you kill my father, and you call me a ‘terrorist’?? Is it because every time you strip me naked I scream?? Is it because every time you smash my bones I cry?? Is it because I shed tears for my younger brothers every time they hear your bombs?? Am I a ‘terrorist’??

It is my pleasure then, call me a ‘terrorist’!

I cannot prosecute you. You are the judge and the victimizer. You are the legislator and the killer. I cannot prosecute you. Simply! But you know what I can do? I can tell my children about you. I can teach them how to love Palestine. I can make Palestine their father, mother, brother, everything–I can make Palestine everything for them. I can make it their only motive to live. And you know what?? I can teach them how to live and die with honor!

Yes, son… live for Palestine and die for Palestine.

I will teach my son how to co-exist, how to respect, how to– I will never make him a monster. A monster just like you! My son is human. Is yours? Do you stuff your son’s mind and soul with hatred, grudge, and evilness? Do you pass your rotten hate to him and make him thirst for our death? Is he prostituting for killing? But you know what… thanks, my enemy. You taught me how to love Palestine. Thanks, Israelis. You taught me how to love Palestine!

About Waleed al-Meadana

Waleed al-Meadana is a 21-year-old Palestinian. His grandparents were expelled from Jaffa. He is a lecturer at the University College of Applied Sciences (UCASGaza).

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161 Responses

  1. Richard Witty
    December 30, 2011, 12:37 pm

    Is the word “enemy” your word?

    How will you teach your family to co-exist with Israelis, with Jews, if you name us as “enemy”?

    • dumvitaestspesest
      December 30, 2011, 1:18 pm

      If you stop killing Palestinians, abuse, oppress them, imprison them, steal their land, humiliate them, deprive them of water, food (and almost everything else ), then, then maybe they will stop treating you as an “enemy”.
      For now they know exactly who and why is their enemy .

    • Kris
      December 30, 2011, 1:41 pm

      Maybe the author is trying to stay in the realm of reality, so he would realize that Israel, based on its entire history, is the enemy of the Palestinians.

      It seems to me that Israel is also an enemy of God, since it claims to be a “Jewish state,” yet consistently acts in ways that every world religion, including Judaism, understands to be evil.

    • Cliff
      December 30, 2011, 1:51 pm

      Why would he call you a friend, Witty?

      You support the Nakba. You think ethnic cleansing is acceptable if it means a Jewish State.

      You said nothing about Mustafa Tamimi in both threads. You said nothing about the 30,000 Palestinians who might lose their residencies in E. Jerusalem.

      Nothing about the 60,000 Bedouins who might lose their homes and lands.

      ETC ETC

      Who the hell do you think you are, Witty? We know you. 11,000+ comments of nonsense.

      • Richard Witty
        December 30, 2011, 2:30 pm

        Either/or Cliff?

        I love the liberation that the state of Israel represented, and I feel that the nakba was a necessary wrong that needs to be healed.

        Similar language to Slater, though I doubt that he’ll acknowledge that.

        • eljay
          December 30, 2011, 4:17 pm

          >> RW: … I feel that the nakba [sic] was a necessary wrong …

          Zionist terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians was “a necessary wrong”. But, according to RW, “There is no case in which I ‘defended’ Zionist terrorism.”

          Too funny. And so very hateful.

        • CloakAndDagger
          December 30, 2011, 4:24 pm

          “necessary wrong”, RW?
          That is disgusting, even for you.

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 4:33 pm

          It was war. I’m glad that my community won, rather than lost.

          Those were the only two options at the time.

          Today though the options included healing and repairing, undone.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 30, 2011, 4:53 pm

          richard, it was an ethnic cleansing operation. or did you miss that part of the interview. it’s not a war when you surround a village and expel all the people most of whom didn’t even have guns or weaponry.

          go away and leave the thread for awhile, you’re sounding like a fanatical nutcase.

        • CloakAndDagger
          December 30, 2011, 4:53 pm

          “It was war. I’m glad that my community won, rather than lost.”

          A war that your community instigated on an innocent victim. A pox on your community.

          I am glad that you can sleep well at night.

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 4:55 pm

          1948 Annie. Not an ethnic cleansing operation, a war.

          You’ve drunk the cool-aid.

        • Woody Tanaka
          December 30, 2011, 5:04 pm

          “I’m glad that my community won, rather than lost.”

          Your community? I thought you were an American from New England…

        • Dan Crowther
          December 30, 2011, 5:16 pm

          Go Team Go! Eh, Witty?

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 5:20 pm

          My community. The grandparents of my children.

        • American
          December 30, 2011, 5:28 pm

          Yes Richard, just be quiet, you’re getting worse.
          You’re baiting people..on purpose I think.

        • john h
          December 30, 2011, 5:56 pm

          I’ll take cool-aid over ziocaine any day thanks.

          Ethnic cleansing, a war; whatever, that’s mere verbiage.

          They were not the only options at the time. The third option was to carry through the UN plan as laid out for the two states.

          The real option that should have been taken much earlier was no state but living together in relative peace as in pre Balfour times.

        • straightline
          December 30, 2011, 8:33 pm
        • lyn117
          December 30, 2011, 8:59 pm

          Ethnic cleansing, the nakba, was a necessary wrong only if an ethnically purified Jewish state was necessary. If your goal was people living in peace and equality with each other, far more options were available. A single state, which all the Arab leadership and most of the population supported, rather than the giving away of the majority of the territory to recent immigrants (many of them illegal immigrants) and depriving native people of sovereignity in their own land which the zionists were after, was a perfectly achievable without resorting to mass murder or driving anyone into the sea.

          RW, are you incapable of noticing that the zionist goal of ethnic supremacy against the will of the majority of the people is a racist goal in the first place, regardless of whether they achieved it by deliberate mass murder and terror (and it;s clear that was the zionist intention)?

          Do you really think that the wrongs of racist policy can be “healed” without ending the zionist official state-sponsored and imposed racist policies?

        • Donald
          December 30, 2011, 11:22 pm

          “Similar language to Slater, though I doubt that he’ll acknowledge that.”

          You don’t understand why. The difference is that Slater struggles hard to think of a way that Israel could have been founded without murder and terrorism against innocent Palestinians and doesn’t pretend that the murder was justified. Hell, I’ve wondered whether there was some way the Zionist movement could have turned out all right myself, though I don’t have the emotional stake in it that Jerome does–to me it was a utopian idea that was very unlikely to work in the real world, and in fact led to civil war, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Slater doesn’t endorse the Nakba. You just did. In fact you gleefully leap on Slater’s internal struggle, say to yourself “see, even Jerome says 1948 was okay” and beg him to “dialog” with you. Face it, Richard–he doesn’t acknowledge you because as someone who has spent much of his life criticizing Israeli atrocities that you try to whitewash, he finds you an embarrassment.

        • RoHa
          December 30, 2011, 11:55 pm

          “I love the liberation that the state of Israel represented”

          Liberation from what, and for whom?

        • RoHa
          December 30, 2011, 11:59 pm

          “I’m glad that my community won”

          What makes that bunch of invaders “your” community?
          Did you buy them?
          Were you a member? (But that must have been in a previous life. You, now, are too young to have been one of them.)

          Why does the fact that your parents were members make you call yourself a member?

          Why do you associate yourself with that lot?

        • Taxi
          December 31, 2011, 12:15 am

          But you haven’t “won” the ethnic-cleansing “war”, witty.

          You haven’t arrived at the necessary ‘peace’ that defined the end of a war – or defined your borders yet.

          And you NEVER will have the luxury of peace on stolen land either.

          You’ll be fought for the next six hundred years and longer if it’s “necessary”.

          Better advise your grandchildren to advise their grandchildren of this certainty.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 31, 2011, 12:34 am

          Why does the fact that your parents were members make you call yourself a member?

          it was his wife’s parents. iow, in 48 there was nothing about ‘his survvial’, he inherited the survival factor later in life.

        • Cliff
          December 31, 2011, 12:48 am

          So the Nakba was necessary to win? Or a Jewish State needed a Jewish majority?

          You are a racist, war-profiteer either way Witty.

          More proof that you do not care about peace and you instead post 11K+ comments on MW out of pathological necessity. You are a joke around here.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 5:45 am

          “Slater doesn’t endorse the Nakba.”

          If you honestly believe that Slater is grappling today with how Israel could have been established 64 years ago without ethnic cleansing, I think you are ignoring an important question.

          He may be. I actually do as well, but I recognize that it is LONG LONG past, and not unduable, except in the ways that I’ve named, specifically working for repeal of the 49-51 laws that prohibited return, that prohibited Palestinians from their day in court, then took all lands that had been “abandoned” for more than two years.

          The important question that you should ask Slater, and Phil actually alluded to in a post of his a long time ago, is how would you have achieved Israeli liberation? And, really test out your speculation, which would then require in depth knowledge of the time, pro and con.

          Which step would he have not seen done? (I’ve spoken that there is MUCH that I could not do, and would not do, and would not order anyone else to do.)

          But, on his end, would he have not facilitated immigration to Israel? Would he have not defended Israeli settlements from sniper attacks? Would he have not defended Jerusalem from siege? Would he have not developed institutions of Israeli governance? Would he have asked the 20-something vibrant socialist girls to dress more modestly to not offend the Arabs sensitivities? Would he have adopted a policy of “hire an Arab to do dirty work” rather than “create the New Jew, willing to work physically and collectively”?

          I get that he (and I) feel very bad about cruelty to others, that in retrospect appear to have been unnecessary.

          I stated above that I thought that the forced removals were necessary, and that is innaccurate. The truth is that I don’t know.

          It is in the present an arbitrary litmus test, that DOES distract from working in the present for Palestinian independence, rights, and well-being.

          The litmus test is only useful for the either/or question of “which side are you on?”. Sadly, that even Dr. Slater engages in, and thereby NEGLECTS what might be a more helpful mission, of attempting to improve lives, rather than be “right”.

          The “narrative war”.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 5:56 am

          So, Jerome, honestly now.

          How does Israel get from genocided, continual refugee after WW2, refused acceptance at their former homes, to independence, without struggle, and without struggle with difficult moral questions?

          And, please just keep on the content, and discipline yourself from lapsing into some condemnation of what you imagine my thinking is?

        • American
          December 31, 2011, 10:25 am

          “How does Israel get from genocided, continual refugee after WW2, refused acceptance at their former homes”

          First Richard the Jews were not refused their former homes, they could have returned and indeed some reclaimed their homes and property and stayed in Germany when they were released from the camps…..the US occupying forces carried out a big program to return to Jews any property they had owned. So you don’t know what your talking about there.

        • Donald
          December 31, 2011, 2:22 pm

          “I get that he (and I) feel very bad about cruelty to others, that in retrospect appear to have been unnecessary.”

          I’m sure Slater would support genuine self-defense by both sides in 1948. He wouldn’t support attacks on unarmed civilians by either side. This isn’t moral rocket science Richard. You hem and haw and avoid the obvious when it’s a question of atrocities committed by Jews, while you don’t hesitate to condemn atrocities by Arabs.

          It was a war in 1948 and the responsibility for that goes further back and involves the goals of the Zionist movement, which were to create a Jewish state even at the expense of the Arab population. That was immoral. Once the war began then I for one don’t blame either side for legitimate acts of self defense–one is justified in defending civilians from attack even if one is on the side which is in the wrong, but again, there’s a distinction to be made between that and war crimes and deliberate acts of ethnic cleansing. Did you ever show up in the comment section of the post where an old Israeli veteran of the 48 war talks about the atrocities he committed?

          “The important question that you should ask Slater, and Phil actually alluded to in a post of his a long time ago, is how would you have achieved Israeli liberation? ”

          It’s a more important question to recognize that two wrongs don’t make a right. The oppression of Jews doesn’t justify the oppression of Palestinians. Creating a Jewish state at the expense of another people was almost certain to require atrocities and create bitterness and hatred that would stretch on for generations. Maybe it could have been accomplished without harm to the Palestinians if the Zionist movement had been led by men and women of great moral integrity–Zionist Gandhis, genuine ones with empathy for both sides and not the sort of hypocrite who uses the language of Gandhi but thinks tribally. But it wasn’t led by such men. It was led by ideologues who were willing to do what it took to obtain “liberation” for their group at the expense of others. Leaders like that are a dime a dozen in history. The important question is why you don’t recognize this?

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 3:04 pm

          “Maybe it could have been accomplished without harm to the Palestinians if the Zionist movement had been led by men and women of great moral integrity–Zionist Gandhis, genuine ones with empathy for both sides and not the sort of hypocrite who uses the language of Gandhi but thinks tribally.”

          Maybe, except for the low-blow last phrase. (You can’t leave those out?)

          Gandhi was an advocate, a “tribalist”.

          In the present the effort to restore Palestinians to health, is delayed by the application of litmus tests on the past.

          The question to Slater remains. You hold him as a hero, but he has not stated his opinion on the question whether if morally questionable actions were required and committed to achieve the Jewish nation in Israel, if he would choose something different at the time, maybe sending them back to Hungary and Poland.

          There is a math law, that if in a plane a line divides two points, one must intersect the line to get from point a to point b.

          Either cross the line, or turn back.

          A moral question is about one’s life “Do you regret any action that you’ve taken in the past?”

          “Yes, I had the option of doing x, but instead I was fearful and did y”.

          “Is there then anything that you can do to repair what was broken?”

          “Yes, I can help their children get back on their feet.”

          Stated by a hypothetical former Irgun Zionist, now in their 90′s.

          Or, by someone that was not alive at the time.

          “Do you regret that someone acting in your in-laws behalf did immoral actions?”

          “Yes, the actions were repugnant, but the alternative was worse. (The alternative being that they could be massacred when returning again to their old village, after being chased away after surviving the Hungarian death marches.)”

          “Is there anything that you can do to heal the results of these actions?”

          “Yes, I can help their children and grandchildren get back on their feet.”

          Have you addressed those kinds of questions? I’m a beneficiary, an indirect beneficiary, who merely respects my in-laws struggles.

          Either/or is the wrong answer.

        • James North
          December 31, 2011, 3:30 pm

          Richad Witty said, ‘I’m more concerned with getting Professor Jerry Slater to respond to my bizarre meanderings than I am to listen to Waleed’s original post. Waleed gave us a view from inside Gaza — one we do see on Mondoweiss, but we will never see in the mainstream media — and I jumped in at the top of the thread to distort his message and to whine.’

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 3:34 pm

          I read Waleed’s original post.

          I expressed my confusions about what he meant. He could have come back to clarify after his first comment, but didn’t.

        • Donald
          December 31, 2011, 3:36 pm

          “Maybe, except for the low-blow last phrase. (You can’t leave those out?)”

          It was meant to describe you Richard. Maybe eventually you’ll recognize yourself. Slater isn’t “my hero”. He’s an honest man who doesn’t distort the history or cover up the war crimes of Israel even though he’s a Zionist. People like that are rare in politics, though I wouldn’t quite call it “heroic”. It is admirable. You could learn a lot from him. He is who you imagine yourself to be.

          Anyway, James North is right–you’ve hijacked the thread and I’m an accomplice, so I’ll bow out.

        • James North
          December 31, 2011, 3:51 pm

          Richard Witty said, ‘Let’s review the facts, to underscore my arrogance and insensitivity. Waleed files a post from inside blockaded Gaza, on the third anniversary of a murderous attack that killed 1400 people, including 300 children, many of whom he probably knew. Instead of reading his post and giving it a little thought, I jump in at the top of the thread and whine that he called “me” an enemy. I disrespected him so much that I didn’t notice his post never used the word “Jews,” and wasn’t even directed at “me”.
          ‘I’ve never apologized for misreading and insulting him. Instead, I now accuse him, Waleed, of not “coming back to clarify.”
          ‘My callousness has never been more on display. Waleed lives in a society under siege, where Israeli drones and warplays patrol the skies. He may not even have an internet connection at home, having to go out to an internet cafe, where the connections are not as reliable as in my comfortable home up here in western Massachusetts.
          ‘I don’t care. What matters is that he, Waleed, should reassure me, Richard Witty, that he is not my enemy.’

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 3:55 pm

          You don’t have a clue how I think.

          But, you leave your insults in, pretending to be discussion.

          Leave them out so that the content of the discussion is what takes place, please.

          I didn’t hijack the thread in the slightest. I responded to you. Maybe you hijacked the thread.

          I’d like to learn a lot from Jerome, if he talked with me.

        • Donald
          December 31, 2011, 10:21 pm

          “I’d like to learn a lot from Jerome, if he talked with me.”

          So it’s only possible for you to learn from Jerome if he massages your ego. Got it. I learned a lot from Slater long before I “met” him online. That’s kind of normal–Slater is a very smart knowledgeable man and one can learn things by reading what he writes. Try it.

        • traintosiberia
          January 2, 2012, 2:31 am

          What kind of war was it Mr Witty?

          BenGurion starts smuggling planes,aircraft carrier,guns of differnet calibre and also WW2 war veteran from US despite clear laws against such activities. He bribes Truman to support an UN resolution that has no leagl authority and that was non binding. Usng the post ww2 situation created by uncertainty,epidemics,war fatigue,displacemnet,lack of money,breeding rebellion in Greece and Italy and Turkey and impending death facing European citizen ( accoring to Ben Guiorn things that may not be possible in ordinary times can be accomplished in the confusaion of a crisis) Ben Guiron’s gang in US forced UN to divide a land against the wishes of the indigenous people . It was also nonbinding and it had no legal authority to fenorce it. But using the stolen firepowers Israel provoked a war that they knew they would win. US and USSR and other power lent a legitimacy to this horrendous exrecise in human story.
          Never ask a pedphile to baby sit a child and never ask the Zionist to heal and repair the wound.

    • Annie Robbins
      December 30, 2011, 3:30 pm

      richard, i recall some idf brass just said he was ready to make another war on gaza in the near future. technically isn’t this defined as the enemy?

      how would you charcterize the relationship between gaza and israel? why are you so concerned about a word or a definition instead of the reality.

      for anyone who doesn’t remember waleed’s other recent contributions to this site this month link to mondoweiss.net

      i highly recommend Two Palestinians dead in Gaza, a story of mourning and peace.

      maybe after you read these entries richard you will understand why waleed would use the word “enemy”.

      • Richard Witty
        December 30, 2011, 4:34 pm

        Gazans aren’t my enemy unless they harm me.

        I consistently understand the anger. And, I consistently understand that it is our responsibility to CHANGE the pattern, rather than repeat the pattern.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 30, 2011, 4:45 pm

          richard, it is a natural and normal and correct response. if you want to change the pattern you’re at the wrong site. we support the oppressed here, most of us anyway. you on the other hand are berating the oppressed. so go change israel if you want the pattern of ethnic cleansing to stop and quit blaming the victim and go address the predator.

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 4:50 pm

          A common response.

          It is built on the theme that the conflict is an oppression and not a conflict, with no circularity involved. Circularity means the idea of a circle of conflict, one side stimulating the other to angers.

          I prefer the theme of “I will not hate”.

          The editors chose the article, and chose the headline. Maybe it was you personally.

          Please don’t demand that we ostrich relative to the promotion of rage, in the name of “doing something”.

          Better that we calmly do something, and actually make changes, including in the language from all sides.

          Resistance breeds two things:
          1. Courage
          2. Hatred

          Your effort is laudable to encourage the courage.

        • john h
          December 30, 2011, 5:35 pm

          RW, you have now given your definition of what an enemy is. And yet you had the gall to criticize Waleed for using it accordingly. His use does not multiply but simply calls a spade a spade.

          Your (Zionist Jews) responsibility is not to merely change the pattern, but to reverse the pattern and replace it with what is required to achieve reconcilation.

          The occupation would not exist without Zionism; Zionism is the real issue.

          Circularity is your convenient way to avoid ultimate responsibility. The conflict had a beginning, and would not exist without Zionism.

        • Cliff
          December 31, 2011, 12:52 am

          So we are not enemies unless we harm one another. Ok.

          So is the occupation a ‘harm’? Is the continued colonization of Palestinian land, a ‘harm’?

          Is the theft of Palestinian resources, a ‘harm’?

          eee, the racist who uses Jewish identity like a human shield, lectured a Palestinian commentator on the proper manners of neighbors yesterday. He told him, don’t fire rockets and we won’t be enemies.

          When will you and the hateful nationalist nitwit, eee, acknowledge your crimes are far worse, far more frequent, without consequence, and the instigator of most Palestinian crimes?

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 6:24 am

          Even when they seek to harm, I still try to remember that they are not “enemy” as in permanence, but opponent or temporary threat.

    • Refaat
      December 30, 2011, 3:37 pm

      the occupation is the teacher of all hate. Palestinians are soldiers in a war imposed on them by a ruthlessly hideous occupation. Kids who regularly see ppl killed by israel, kids whose classmates stop going to school because they got killed or blinded or disabled by israel do not not need some one to teach them to hate. Your planes, missiles, and drones are the most articulate teacher of hate.

      • James North
        December 30, 2011, 4:08 pm

        Thanks, Refaat, for telling the truth:

        Kids who regularly see ppl killed by israel, kids whose classmates stop going to school because they got killed or blinded or disabled by israel do not not need some one to teach them to hate.

        You could not be more clear.

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 4:35 pm

          Who could support the occupation?

        • Cliff
          December 31, 2011, 12:56 am

          Exactly, North. Exactly.

          Jewish tribalism puts the humanity of Jews above all others. Not in the sense that you would clearly care more about your own family in life/death situations but in the sense that you are narcissistic and indifferent to the suffering of non-tribal members (except in a way in which that non-member enhances your own profile; see: Israel’s Haiti relief effort/Zionist fixation on sweeping Israeli crimes under the rug while harping on Darfur).

          So Dick and eee and hophmi always, no matter what the Israeli crime, attempt to sweep them under the rug and whine about X/Y/Z other country’s crime.

          And when they talk to Palestinians, they say (like eee), ‘don’t fire rockets’ without factoring in Israeli involvement in the conflict.

          It’s corrupt, unfair and narcissistic. People like those trolls have no class and aren’t just terrible human beings simply because they are rabid Zionists, but because they are terrible human beings in general.

        • Hostage
          December 31, 2011, 5:28 am

          Who could support the occupation?

          Who can support racist Jewish segregationists in Israel? Separate funding of public sectors for education, housing, and etc. Thousands of new Jewish communities have been built, but not a single Palestinian one. One in five citizens are Non-Jewish, but live in a state which claims that it is for the Jewish people, and only the Jewish people. Political parties are outlawed if they challenge that proposition. What a wonderful western democratic state. I’m certain the Palestinians gladly pay their taxes there (not)!

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 5:00 pm

          When someone calls me prospectively “enemy”, I don’t hear “we teach life”, I hear “they are threatening me”.

          Its the difference between non-violent language and language that includes violence.

          I see through it, and hear the struggle. And, I also hear the threat.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 30, 2011, 5:03 pm

          zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 5:19 pm

          Another brilliant and respectful response, Annie.

        • Bumblebye
          December 30, 2011, 5:22 pm

          Hey, hypocritty witty, how many times have you raised this “enemy” stuff when oiks like eee & his ilk refer to all Palestinians as ‘the enemy’?
          And since when did he call *you* his enemy? You’re not Israeli, you’re just an American Jew, albeit one who can barely see the tiniest flaws in the diamond Israel.
          You might not “hate” – what the hell reason would you have to do so? – but you sure are indifferent to any suffering inflicted by your jewel on those it oppresses.

        • MRW
          December 30, 2011, 5:42 pm

          Substitute comprehension for threat next time and you might have better luck.

        • john h
          December 30, 2011, 6:09 pm

          So you hear “they’re threatening me”? You poor diddums.

          When a woman being raped considers the man her enemy, is that threatening to him? Grow up and get a life.

          You have a love affair with language. We have a love of justice and morality and truth.

          You are hearing voices; we see through you because there is so little of substance.

        • eljay
          December 30, 2011, 6:43 pm

          >> Another brilliant and respectful response, Annie.

          Yeah, Annie, why can’t you just defend “repugnant, likely avoidable” Zionist terrorism and ethnic cleansing as a “necessary” wrong? It’s easy! Just repeat after RW:
          > RW: If I was an adult in 1948, I probably would have supported whatever it took to create the state of Israel, and held my nose at actions that I could not possibly do myself.
          >> RW: The nakba [sic] that occurred in 1948 was accompanied by the independence, the liberation, of the Jewish community. So, I primarily celebrate …

          Before you know it, you, too, will be prepared to excise non-Jewish Israelis out of their own nation if their demographic threatens the permanent-majority status of Jewish Israelis!

        • eljay
          December 30, 2011, 6:45 pm

          >> When a woman being raped considers the man her enemy, is that threatening to him?

          Apparently you haven’t heard: To RW, both the rapist and his victim are “aggressors”. He, because he rapes her; she, because she dares to slap and punch him.

        • justicewillprevail
          December 30, 2011, 7:46 pm

          You want respect? Earn it.

        • RoHa
          December 31, 2011, 12:14 am

          “You have a love affair with language.”

          He loves to abuse language.

        • Cliff
          December 31, 2011, 12:59 am

          Richard Witty, you have no right to lecture the Palestinians on what is and is not threatening when you supported their tragedy for a Greater Israel.

          You are not here to advance your ideas and ‘speak your mind’. You are here because your own blog is a failure, as is your views.

          The only reason why Zionists are so successful is because of military force/money/emotional blackmail and the support of Christian fundamentalists, the MIC, and anti-Arab/Islamophobic sentiment.

          Zionism is a stupid, racist ideology.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 5:19 am

          I’ll continue to honestly speak of my impressions, my experiences.

          You want to ignore that dissent is a communication process, speaking to someone that you hope will be motivated by your message, its your choice.

          There are other options, that are still courageous, determined, just, assertive, that don’t also communicate “you are nothing, not a human being”, in declaring themselves assertively “I am something, a human being.”

        • American
          December 31, 2011, 11:00 am

          “I’ll continue to honestly speak of my impressions, my experiences”..witty

          What are your experiences witty? You weren’t in a German camp, you weren’t in Israel or Palestine. You’ve never been in a war. I doubt you’ve ever been threatened with anything or endured any oppression or physical harm. And yet you go on and on about how Israel taking Palestine was a war instead of a ethnic cleansing, on and on about ‘enemies’ and on and on about your community(Israel) as if you actually had some important place or stake in it. Which you don’t, because you’re a guy living in the US and evidently you’re not one who worries about anti semitism as a reason for your Israel support because you never meniton it except in relation to anti -zionism being anti semitism.

          I think I have figured out what you are about Richard—you’re a voyeur….you live some kind of vicarious life by associating yourself with the tradegies of some Jews and Israel and the zionist movement and what you think are the triumphs of your community when it’s all really second hand and removed from your real life and has nothing to do with you. It’s the ‘drama’ of zionism, the great life and death cause, that attracts you.
          That’s why much of what you write shows no real interest in the actual historical facts of what you are so attached to. Zionism is your Batman and Superman.

    • James North
      December 30, 2011, 4:02 pm

      Richard Witty said, ‘Here I go, threadjacking again. Waleed al-Meadana has given us a passionate, powerful depiction of life under the violent Israeli siege, and all I can do is quibble over a single word.
      ‘What’s more, my comment is thoroughly dishonest:

      How will you teach your family to co-exist with Israelis, with Jews, if you name us as “enemy”?

      ‘Nowhere in Waleed’s post does he mention the word “Jews.” Once again, I’m playing the same old game of trying to conflate “Israel” — which blockades his homeland, and regularly invades it — with “Jews.” I’m trying to slyly suggest that Waleed’s anger is motivated by old-fashioned anti-Semitism, instead of the fact that he lives with the Israeli siege and violence.’

      • Richard Witty
        December 30, 2011, 4:38 pm

        Calling someone “enemy” anyone, multiplies the number of enemies in the world.

        I’d rather that that number get divided rather than multiplied.

        “Threadjacking”. The word is in the headline!!!

        • eljay
          December 30, 2011, 6:04 pm

          >> Calling someone “enemy” anyone, multiplies the number of enemies in the world. I’d rather that that number get divided rather than multiplied.

          And yet, rather than divide the number, RW multiplied it by conflating “Israelis” with “Jews”.

          What an absurd and hateful person he is.

        • lyn117
          December 30, 2011, 9:26 pm

          “Calling someone “enemy” anyone, multiplies the number of enemies in the world.”

          You celebrate the nakba. You approve of deliberate mass murder of his compatriots, and the expulsion of all his people from their land of origin. Why do you resent being called an “enemy” if indeed you were called that?

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 10:47 pm

          You’re projecting.

          I do NOT celebrate the nakba. I regard it as a catastrophe, requiring healing.

          But, I DO celebrate the liberation that the state of Israel means to the Jewish people, that from the condition of genocided, abused following WW2, refugees, we (which I participate in) achieved a status of freedom.

          I wish it for others. I do not wish that it stop for my own.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 30, 2011, 11:59 pm

          liberation? what if someone referneced the holocaust as a form of liberation richard? the ethnic cleansing of palestine did not ‘liberate’ the jews. they could have gone there in peace to live as good neighbors. they chose not to.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 12:01 am

          Annie,
          They weren’t welcomed as good neighbors.

          You should read more.

          There are two EQUALLY accurate narratives, not either/or.

          If light can be both a wave and a particle, why would you hold that history could only be one thing?

          50/50 population, but only the Palestinian experience is of any merit?

          There is NO QUESTION that the establishment of a sovereign Jewish Israel was a liberation to the traumatized and long suppressed Jewish people.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 31, 2011, 12:40 am

          There is NO QUESTION that the establishment of a sovereign Jewish Israel was a liberation to the traumatized and long suppressed Jewish people.

          richard, israel didn’t have to ethnically cleanse palestine to become sovereign. everybody knows that.

          There are two EQUALLY accurate narratives, not either/or.

          what is this? throw everything against the wall night and give it all equal footing. no richard, all narratives are not equal..iow, the land w/no people for a people with no land is BS. it doesn’t get equal footing because it is a lie. that’s why we’re arguing here richartd. team i is fighting tooth and nail for the predominance of their narrative that has worked wonders for them..up til now. it is being exposed as LIES, because, for the most part, it was built on lies. you can’t even admit it was a friggin colonialist process. no one believes narrative built on lies become EQUAL with the truth. nobody.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 5:33 am

          “richard, israel didn’t have to ethnically cleanse palestine to become sovereign. everybody knows that.”

          Do you? I don’t. It was 64 years ago, following a horrendously traumatic century, for Palestinians (even before WW2) and certainly for European and then Arab-world diaspora Jews.

          I neither advocate for it, nor declare that it wasn’t necessary, in spite of the very oft-repeated accusations that I “advocate” for the nakba (an event 6 years before my birth).

          There is however NO QUESTION in my mind that the establishment of the state of Israel was a liberation for the Jewish people, really all Jewish people, but in reality for the European and Arab-world diaspora Jews that migrated following WW2, and then following independence.

          There is also NO QUESTION in my mind that it does need to continue, that “enough Israel” is attained, and if anything by expanding territory and treating Palestinians harshly and not facilitating their independence, that Israel is growing less healthy and weaker.

          The “which side would you have been on” litmus test as an either/or is a stupid one.

          If you are arguing for “which side are you on?” now, then you are warring now.

          There certainly are other options than to war now.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 5:52 am

          The most important point in my comment above was

          “I wish it for others (liberation)”.

          Somehow you chose (in your wisdom) to not work with that, to assault it.

          Its counter-productive, mean.

          If that was the primary message of Waleed, then we are allies, not enemies.

          If the primary message was “we are enemies, it doesn’t matter what you intend, what you are willing to do to be of help”, then we are not allies, and Waleed has some confusion that needs to be resolved.

        • Hostage
          December 31, 2011, 6:24 am

          Waleed: But you know what… thanks, my enemy. You taught me how to love Palestine. Thanks, Israelis. You taught me how to love Palestine! . . . . Witty: Calling someone “enemy” anyone, multiplies the number of enemies in the world.

          The Israeli security cabinet unanimously adopted a decision on Wednesday, 19 September 2007 to declare the entire population of the Gaza Strip an “enemy entity”. link to palestinemonitor.org

          Ostensibly that allowed for the imposition of collective penalties on the 1.5 million Palestinian civilians living in the Gaza Strip. Those collective punishments have subsequently been declared illegal and crimes against humanity by the treaty monitoring bodies of the UN and ICRC.

          My community. The grandparents of my children.

          Yep they are the ones alright. Their elected representatives designated the Gaza Strip as an “enemy entity” and committed crimes against humanity on the population there. You know, you’ve defended them against that charge here on MW at great length.

          Gazans aren’t my enemy unless they harm me.

          Then you’re not subject to the jurisdiction of the Israeli government and weren’t being addressed by Waleed in the first place. FYI, I’d suggest that you check with the US government before claiming that Gazans aren’t your enemies. The government has claimed that it’s illegal to help finance schools, hospitals and social welfare programs for communities in Gaza and have sentenced members of US charitable organizations to prison for doing that, despite the fact that none of those Gazan communities were ever designated by the U.S. government as illegal organizations. link to articles.latimes.com

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 9:31 am

          “There is also NO QUESTION in my mind that it does need to continue, that “enough Israel” is attained, and if anything by expanding territory and treating Palestinians harshly and not facilitating their independence, that Israel is growing less healthy and weaker.”

          That was meant to be “There is also NO QUESTION in my mind that it does NOT need to continue, that “enough Israel” is already attained, and if anything by expanding territory and treating Palestinians harshly and not facilitating their independence, that Israel is growing less healthy and weaker.”

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 9:33 am

          “Then you’re not subject to the jurisdiction of the Israeli government and weren’t being addressed by Waleed in the first place. FYI, I’d suggest that you check with the US government before claiming that Gazans aren’t your enemies.”

          Its hard to distinguish the rockets or the verbal assaults directed collectively, as “not at me”.

          So you think Waleed was only talking about the state, and that was clear?

        • American
          December 31, 2011, 11:19 am

          “There is however NO QUESTION in my mind that the establishment of the state of Israel was a liberation for the Jewish people, really all Jewish people, but in reality for the European and Arab-world diaspora Jews that migrated following WW2, and then following independence.”

          You never answer when asked to explain something witty…but I’ll ask anyway.
          Exactly how did Israel liberate You and ALL Jewish people?
          What has it done for Jews outside of Israel?

          All I can see it has done is made many people associate Jewish with zionist Israel and it’s crimes. And kept up the holocaust fear and fanaticism of the holocaust generation with a new existential threat every year. For neo Jews it’s obvious Israeli hubris gives them something like viagra to enhance their manhood.
          But I can’t see anything positive Israel or zionism has actually done for Jews.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 11:28 am

          It has asserted “never again”.

          You want to name that change in psychology as “viagra”, then good for you.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 31, 2011, 1:22 pm

          You want to name that change in psychology as “viagra”, then good for you.

          richard, who are you talking to? i’m not finding this viagra reference up their.

          It has asserted “never again”.

          like this, just for jews?:

          “Never again!”, the slogan of the Jewish Defense League
          Never Again! A Program for Survival, a 1972 book by Jewish Defense League founder Meir Kahane
          “Never Again”: A History of the Holocaust, a 2000 book by Martin Gilbert

          because israel obviously is not asserting ‘never again’ in the history of mankind for humanity. you can’t promote never again while ethnically cleansing people.

        • Hostage
          December 31, 2011, 2:46 pm

          So you think Waleed was only talking about the state, and that was clear?

          You betcha!

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 3:12 pm

          American changed his posting Annie.

          Its an odd phenomena of the posting rules and edit timing here. That people change their posts after appearing.

        • straightline
          December 31, 2011, 9:18 pm

          The Jews fleeing the holocaust, and the survivors could have gone elsewhere than Palestine. Zionists lobbied in various countries to prevent their immigration to anywhere but Palestine.

          link to desip.igc.org

          The Jewish people escaping the holocaust could, for instance, have gone to New England and I believe that some did but the Zionist cause sought to prevent it.

    • john h
      December 30, 2011, 4:46 pm

      Richard, you obviously have no idea how morally empty your words show you to be. Just a clueless and hypocritical clot living in his own hermetically sealed world.

      You are a disciple of Jabotinsky and his disgusting brand of so-called morality.

      Your response to Waleed has exposed your partisanship for all to see, and your claim to support “solidarity” and “progressive values of universal humanism” is shown to be absolutely false.

      Is the word “enemy” your word? How will you teach your family to co-exist with Israelis, with Jews, if you name us as “enemy”?

      That is what you say to someone who said:

      I will teach my son how to co-exist, how to respect, how to– I will never make him a monster.

      I want peace: for me, for you, for every living thing. Please, help me live in peace.

      For GOD’s sake, WE ARE HUMANS! Just let go. Leave us. Do not kill us. Do not destroy us.

      But you know what I can do? I can tell my children about you. I can teach them how to live and die with honor! I can teach them how to love Palestine.

      Compare that with what you said:

      I love the liberation that the state of Israel represented, and I feel that the nakba was a necessary wrong that needs to be healed.

      The apparent “liberation that the state of Israel represented” was what made them an enemy of Palestinians, and the Palestinians their enemy. The liberation of one was the nakba of the other.

      This so-called “necessary wrong” can never be healed. >b>It needs to be righted. That means confession of guilt and full application of the right of return.

      Not co-existence Richard, but reconciliation. Not words and language, but action and deeds.

      • Richard Witty
        December 30, 2011, 4:51 pm

        The liberation was our survival. (My wife’s family, my childrens’ antecedents.)

        I’m sorry that was too uncomfortable for you.

        “The liberation of one was the nakba of the other.”

        I agree with that.

        The other side of that is “the nakba of one was the liberation of the other”.

        Lets end the nakba, the actual actions of it, and the psychology of it.

        Lets not multiply it, not keep the same relations going indefinitely.

        • john h
          December 30, 2011, 6:22 pm

          Two wrongs do not a right make.

          Yes, let’s end the nakba, but equally, let’s end the liberation, the two wrongs, and make the right come to pass for both peoples.

          Not too uncomfortable for me, but far too uncomfortable for Palestinians, and for Jews who have the courage to face the truth.

          link to mondoweiss.net
          link to markbraverman.org

        • Richard Witty
          December 30, 2011, 10:48 pm

          A liberation is a wrong?

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 12:05 am

          You should respect the experience of the Jewish people, the European and Arab world diaspora Jewish people, that came to comprise the vast majority of Jewish residents of Israel.

          Their lives are real, of merit, and represent the transition from abused, genocided, to self-governing.

          That is a liberation.

        • RoHa
          December 31, 2011, 12:12 am

          “The liberation was our survival. (My wife’s family, my childrens’ antecedents.)”

          And your wife’s parents (not yours, I now see) were so much more important than other people that the suffering of others was justified to save them.

          But what you refuse to face is that your wife’s family could have survived without the nakba. They could have entered Palestine to live at peace, instead of entering to take over the land.

        • Annie Robbins
          December 31, 2011, 12:58 am

          spare us your crap richard. arab jews, for the most part led extremely decent lives in the ME for centuries prior to the zionist project. the were successful in commerce, politics etc etc. no ethnic group went thru centuries seamlessly. none of them. quit trumping your victimhood. zionism required bodies to populate the areas they ethnically cleansed and they assisted in making that happen.big time. nobody was genociding jews in the ME, you can’t transfer jewish victimhood in europe onto the arab countries like some kind of trade off for ethnically cleansing palestine, it doesn’t fly.

          all over the world in every culture the masses reject the elite when they are oppressed, prior to zionism, to the extent jews represented the elite in these ME countries was that elitism rejected. that’s normal when people are oppressed just like it is normal people reject wall street. but it was not pervasive for the vast majority of the time. then zionism hit and things became explosive (big duh), but don’t pretend, for the most part these countries rejected their jewish communities, because, over time, they didn’t. and they really didn’t in palestine until zionsim reared it’s ugly head. either way history is not measured by blurps in time, it is measure over centuries. we’re in a bad time but it will blow over and things will stabilize. at the rate it’s going israel won’t last 100 years. how long did it last the time before? not much.

          this was a small pocket of time. quit excusing colonialism richard by masking it in colonialist framing like ‘liberation’. no different than excusing the genocide of native americans as ‘liberation’ for the politically prosecuted in europe and where ever everyone else came from.

          the ‘liberation’ of ‘the jews’ after the holocaust did not require the ethnic cleansing of anyone, this is pure fantasy.

        • john h
          December 31, 2011, 2:18 am

          A liberation is a wrong?

          I did not say “a liberation” but “the liberation”. That is the term you used, not me, and refers to the practical application of the ideology of Zionism. A liberation is usually not a wrong; the liberation (this Zionist one) was and always would be wrong regardless of the particular circumstances.

          The Zionist plan, with its necessity for war and related ethnic cleansing, was known and put in place before the rise of Hitler. It was clearly laid out by Jabotinsky in 1923.

          It was not “the transition from abused, genocided, to self-governing.” Rather, it was the transition from abused, genocided, to the abuser, the ethnic cleanser, the oppressor, the enemy of all who resisted in any way.

          What “the liberation” achieved was not liberation but the continuing nakba for Palestinians and another kind of bondage that continues for Israeli Jews.

          Their fateful choice was, as a people in that place, to live a lie and to never know true freedom, the kind you yourself have as a Jew in another place, the US.

          Instead, they have to be eternally vigilant, always looking over their shoulder (metaphorically and too often literally), never knowing when something serious might happen.

          And their children have to spend time in the IDF, which takes away another freedom, to think and act as ordinary humans and to develop their integrity and ability to mix freely with others who are different, in a normal environment.

          They learn well the Zionist morality, which is that might is right, the end justifies the means, and Zionism trumps all else.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 6:00 am

          “But what you refuse to face is that your wife’s family could have survived without the nakba. They could have entered Palestine to live at peace, instead of entering to take over the land.”

          My family were refugees, denied safety in their prior home.

          They entered Palestine/Israel to live in peace, not to war.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 6:05 am

          Spare us your crap, Annie.

          You want to be angry at the architects of Zionism, wonderful.

          That is NOT what is the substance of Zionism, of Israel. The substance of Zionism is the people, the 600,000 that migrated between 45 and 50 from Europe, the 800,000 that migrated from North Africa and Mideast.

          You are drinking the cool-aid on the utopian Arab world relative to Jews as well.

          Especially after the Israeli independence. The harrassment of Jews that happen to live in North Africa and Mideast, is collective punishment, no matter what you want to call the precipating stimuli to the collective punishment.

          Have the guts to actually name things as they are, not per a story.

          Allow yourself to have conflicting understandings, rather than simplistic.

          “only to the extent jews represented the elite in these countries was that elitism rejected.”

          Please don’t go to the racist anti-Zionist themes, Annie. Please have a bit of skepticism about what you ingest and then repeat.

        • RoHa
          December 31, 2011, 7:00 pm

          “My family were refugees, denied safety in their prior home.

          They entered Palestine/Israel to live in peace, not to war.”

          Did they oppose the Zionists? If not, they were invaders.

        • eljay
          December 31, 2011, 7:16 pm

          >> Have the guts to actually name things as they are, not per a story.

          What amusing advice from the gutless, “humanist”, Zio-supremacist hypocrite who names:
          - Zionist terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands a “‘necessary’ wrong” and “liberation”; and
          - a religion-supremacist “Jewish state” from which he has no qualms about excising non-Jewish citizens a “democracy”.

          RW remains a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist. And, recently, he has shown that he’s a particularly proud and defiant one at that, too. Bravo.

        • straightline
          December 31, 2011, 9:21 pm

          Honestly Richard, do you realise how stupid this looks? Of course a liberation is in itself not a wrong – but if it goes along with ethnic cleansing, yes it is.

        • lyn117
          January 1, 2012, 10:10 pm

          From RW:

          “The liberation of one was the nakba of the other.”

          I agree with that.

          And you “primarily celebrate” the event, you’ve said so many times, therefore, you celebrate the nakba. You celebrate the deliberate murder in mass of people who never did you any harm.

          The liberation was our survival. (My wife’s family, my childrens’ antecedents.)

          The vast majority of people who were murdered by zionists in 1948 weren’t killed fighting, were simply unarmed civilians, and of those who were armed most were killed while defending themselves, not attacking. The vast, vast majority of people who were expelled were expelled simply because if an election had been held they would have voted against the zionist parties. That such an election wasn’t held, to see whether the people desired their land split or who would represent them in a sovereign country, could be blamed on the UN or Britain. However it was the zionist parties who demanded that no democratic institutions be built in Palestine which could conduct free and fair elections, for the very reason that they knew they were a minority. It was the zionist parties who insisted on partition, rather than voting and referendum to decide the future of Palestine, and they’re the ones who stirred up the war that they could use as cover to expel the Palestinians from their villages.

          Perfectly peaceful means for Jews to live in Palestine existed prior to 1948, who knows, had the zionists not made it their goal to take over from the native people, perhaps those native people (whose culture from my observations is one of openness, generosity and hospitality) might have learned of the holocaust and been as horrified as the rest of the world and been fully open to welcoming more refugees. But no, the zionists insisted on Jewish rule which meant no rights for non-Jews, they insisted on Britain giving them favorable treatment until they had enough military strength to force out the Palestinians by means of terror and massacres.

          I seriously doubt your wife’s family would have been in much danger unless they were part of zionist militias, and only because the zionists insisted on first, partitioning a territory that didn’t belong to them, giving themselves the majority area, and secondly, stirring up more violence, throwing bombs into crowds and so forth. The only reason for the “war” in 1948 was to establish a “Jewish state” with a clear Jewish majority. It was in no way a war for the survival of the Jewish people, either in Palestine or elsewhere.

        • RoHa
          January 1, 2012, 10:49 pm

          “My family were refugees, denied safety in their prior home.

          They entered Palestine/Israel to live in peace, not to war.”

          And if this is true, if they were not Zionists, then they too were victims of the Zionists, for the Zionists denied them peace and brought them war.

  2. dumvitaestspesest
    December 30, 2011, 1:05 pm

    Beautiful post. Thank you.
    Here is a great video in which a Palestinian family tells their fate after being expelled from their land in 1948.
    The love which they have for their land will never cease.
    link to gilad.co.uk

    • Krauss
      December 30, 2011, 1:35 pm

      Well done, you’re linking to the site of a man who has denied the Holocaust and claimed that there is no need to denounce the Protocols Elders of Zion ‘because American Jews already control the world via proxy’.

      There are some strange people lurking on this site.

      • Cliff
        December 30, 2011, 2:01 pm

        Shut up Krauss. This is the internet. There is no screening process to register on MW.

        Have you chastised eee for trying to tell us who is and is not a Jew?

        Did you reprimand hophmi for calling all Palestinians, Nazis?

        And what about EVERY SINGLE Zionist blog in existence except for the exceptions of those written by the very few ‘liberal’ Zionists like J. Slater who criticize major Israeli military operations in an almost anti-Zionist tone?

        What about Haaretz or Ynet or JPost? All those disgusting comments.

        Phil tries to be fair to everyone across the spectrum of views. That means if you’re criticizing this guy for LINKING to Gilad Shalit – for consistency, let’s see you criticize your ideological allies as well.

        Whoops you won’t. You’re just another partisan hack, point-scoring.

        • Philip Weiss
          December 30, 2011, 2:20 pm

          thanks for props Cliff, but can you be a little more civil? I respect a lot of Krauss’s views too and dont want people to feel uncomfortable posting here. Thx, Phil

        • dumvitaestspesest
          December 30, 2011, 2:27 pm

          Thx Cliff.
          Not a guy ,but a lady though:)

        • MRW
          December 30, 2011, 5:46 pm

          Cliff, it wasn’t Gilad Shalit, it was Gilad Atzmon. Krauss, Atzmon never denied the Holocaust. His view is the same as Finkelstein’s The Holocaust Industry. Page 148 of his latest book.

        • dumvitaestspesest
          December 30, 2011, 6:51 pm

          Mr. Finkelstein has been labeled “Holocaust denier” ,” self-hating Jew” and some other “lovely” names of that kind.
          That’s what hasbarist poropaganda does. They invent a label, for everyone who dares to contradict or opposse them , and then glue it ,over and over , on a person’s back. And some fall for it ,and start believing in it.
          Sad yet true.

        • Cliff
          December 30, 2011, 10:52 pm

          Sorry. I dont know why i wrote shalit. I knew he meant aztmon lol.

        • Cliff
          December 31, 2011, 1:02 am

          Ok Phil. I get that you want more Zionist voices here.

          I think I’m done w/ this blog.

        • john h
          December 31, 2011, 2:49 am

          Nah Cliff, stick around man!

        • Walid
          December 31, 2011, 5:06 am

          “Ok Phil. I get that you want more Zionist voices here.”

          I don’t know about Phil, Cliff, but speaking for myself, I’d like to see more of them. Without them we’d all be speaking to ourselves most of the time since we are almost on the same wave length. The Zionists add colour; not always nice and smelling pretty but necessary to keep us on our toes. Today’s soupe du jour is being spiced up by Krauss; Annie’s saying another one starting to bloom is Ambv. eee’s remade new persona has evolved into a more literate one. And so on.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        December 30, 2011, 2:02 pm

        Send you phony complains directly to Gilad.
        Maybe he”ll answer you.
        You are a “strange person lurking on this site”.
        You usage of language reminds me of hasbara talk.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 30, 2011, 3:21 pm

        our new zio poster ambv linked to a youtube of david duke the other day. yuck.

        • PeaceThroughJustice
          December 30, 2011, 3:30 pm

          “our new zio poster ambv linked to a youtube of david duke the other day.”

          I don’t remember Krauss lashing out that time. Oh well, maybe he missed it.

          Strange people indeed.

      • lyn117
        December 30, 2011, 9:22 pm

        According to , he does not deny the holocaust. Please provide evidence that Atzmon believes that “American Jews already control the world by proxy.” As far as I can determine, he only thinks zionists control U.S. foreign policy. Zionists, not Jews in general, and not the whole world.

      • Danaa
        December 31, 2011, 3:12 am

        Krauss, I like a lot of your posts, but it is wrong to put Gilad Atzmon or anyone else in Herem. Gilad has bitter enemies – especially in the UK where he seems to have riled up a great many of the anti-zionist camp; especially people like Gabriel Ash and Tony Goldstein (the latter even wrote a 15 page anti-Gilad polemic. Impressive). But just because there’s a group on the left that sees fit to call Gilad names and interpret any number of his proclamations as “anti-semitic”, doesn’t mean they are right. It just means they have a major beef with Gilad’s views – or maybe just with his manners in answering his critics. Or maybe he just pushed their buttons ( how would I kno? me not English)

        Be it as it may, Gilad is indeed a controversial figure in some quarters, primarily the Jewish ones and there are many on MW – including some excellent posters like Shmuel, who consider him just too divisive. But just because I respect some people’s opinion doesn’t mean that I – or others here – will go along with some mysterious collective decision – taken on my and others’ behalf – to shun Gilad or portray him as an “enemy of The Jews” (yes, I meant the capital this time). You could probably be portrayed the same way by certain illustrious members of the jewish right or just the jewish establishment. And DKos put all of MW in herem – and we all have buddies there. Israelis BTW understand Gilad quite well BTW – after all, many of them fshare the same “take no prisoners’ approach to debate and many freely admit – even relish the irony that the protocols that were once a forgery, are coming true a century later. Why, people like Bibi even boast about the outsize influence of the jewish establishment on policy, be it in the US, or canada or Australia.

        I am not trying to start a discussion on Gilad here, but it’ unacceptable to forbid bringing up his name. I don’t think that MW should fall into the trap that some leftist camps do, especially as some commenters freely express opinions every bit as radical as Gilad’s and then some.

        Besides, putting selected people from their own camp into herem has traditionally been one of the fault lines splitting the left from time immemorial. Whether they are anti-zionist, or progressives, or occupy participants.

        Personally I have zero patience with the brandishing of the anti-semitic label. It’s for the most part utterly pointless. Kind of like discussing religion in general but not being allowed to bring up Dawson, him being an established and proven heretic. If you, or others, don’t accept a reference as valid, that’s your prerogative. But to issue blanket denounciations on account of something that someone thought that someone else said or meant is nonsensical and not worthy.

        Kind of reminds me a bit of the Ron Paul debates still raging. Jerry Slater for example has already denounced Blankfort as ‘anti-semite-de-jour” on another thread.

        The flinging of this particular accusation has been nothing but detrimental to the causes which we all share.

        • MRW
          December 31, 2011, 7:21 am

          Danaa, you’re a prize (and I’m going to bed). I hope everyone reads this post of yours.

    • Annie Robbins
      December 30, 2011, 3:49 pm

      that happens to be a really good video krauss. here it is on youtube:

      Plight of Palestinian families in exile-Diaspora , Lauren Booth meets Zidane family from north Gala Ley village.

    • Danaa
      December 31, 2011, 3:23 am

      Now, if someone wants to look at a really stomach churning revenge fest, check out this lovely piece from NYT:

      link to nytimes.com

      I think I am feeling a wave of anti-semitic cloud wash over me. Or is it just nausea? can someone please put the ‘author’ (not a very good one) in herem pronto? before the goys get a good whiff of the biblical/triumphalist crap she peddles?

      Me thinks I’ll go read Gilad’s new book now. Need an anti-dote.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        December 31, 2011, 9:12 am

        What do “me” thinks of Mr Atzmon’s new book??
        Me read very good reviews of it ,and I’m curious what do you think about it.
        The NYT Saddam Ladle story is more than pathetic. “I want it burned, hanged”. What a sick mind would write and brag about its (her)hidden, sadistic inclinations? She manages to repeat briefly in this pitiful story majority of the MSM lies reg. Iraq and Hussein.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 31, 2011, 12:24 pm

        oh jeez that is a hideous link danaa. why oh why does the msm see fit to publish such garbage time and again. do the think the american public needs to keep shoving a stake in the heart of saddam as if he will reemerge as soon hero to the left in the coming future?

  3. Annie Robbins
    December 30, 2011, 3:42 pm

    You always tear our soft bodies apart. You smash our bones. You burn our flesh. For GOD’s sake, WE ARE HUMANS! Just let go. Leave us. Do not kill us. Do not destroy us. It is you… YES! You! You always start it all. Do you not live without killing? Can you not ignore me? Just ignore me. Think I am invisible. I want peace: for me, for you, for every living thing. Please, help me live in peace.

    i just want to say..for those of you who have not been paying attention over the last week or so..we’ve had stunning contributions from a number of gazan writers relating to the anniversary of the massacre under the theme ‘i am the terrorist’.

    we didn’t plan this, i don’t know if they planned it but i have a hunch it is not a coincidence.

    it really means a lot to me to be able to hear your voices, if you guys are listening out there. whoever put this together ..if it was ‘put together’ ..this expression is so real, raw and exquisite and big thank you.

    especially i’d like to thank phil and adam for publishing work many might undoubtedly consider controversial.

    and finally, waleed..you’re one heck of a talented writer. thanks for your honesty, and passionate emotion.

    • MRW
      December 31, 2011, 12:54 pm

      Waleed, I completely agree with annie. You are one heck of a talented writer, poetic in your understanding of your world, with a raw eye. “You always start it all. Do you not live without killing?”

  4. Waleed Meadana
    December 30, 2011, 4:56 pm

    Richard Witty says:
    December 30, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Is the word “enemy” your word?

    How will you teach your family to co-exist with Israelis, with Jews, if you name us as “enemy”?

    Could you please me what you call me… what you call all Palestinians ??

    Witty, I never mentioned “JEWS” or even gave hints related to them. Read history !!! We, Palestinians, and the Jews of Samaria– whom you hate and degrade– lived in peace here in Palestine.

    Also, read literature. Mainly “The Merchant of Venice,” by Shakespeare. I think that Shakespeare speaks my mind at some points.

    uhhh, yes man. Have you noticed these few words “I want peace: for me, for you, for every living thing. Please, help me live in peace.” ????? I doubt !!!!

    • James North
      December 30, 2011, 9:58 pm

      Waleed: Thanks for your humane response to Richard Witty’s insensitive foolishness. No one here at Mondoweiss takes Richard seriously. Please keep on, and keep writing and carrying the message about life in Gaza.

    • Richard Witty
      December 30, 2011, 10:44 pm

      “Could you please me what you call me… what you call all Palestinians ??”

      Neighbor. Human being.

      Waleed,
      I had an experience with a Palestinian blogger who held a gun in his picture associated with his name. When I asked him why he would have such a potentially aggressive picture (you’d have to see it, it wasn’t just a pose), he asked me “so I can shoot the likes of you”, then after someone asked him to “stop joking”, he asked me “did you sincerely think that the gun was directed at you?”

      Please don’t evoke the Merchant of Venice, and then complain that you are being misinterpreted in speaking about Jews.

      Recommendation, at the risk of “stealing your anger”. If you want peace, don’t refer to people as enemy. At least use a temporary word like opponent, or something that is not so aggressive.

      I don’t know if the headline was yours, or if someone else wrote it.

      It would be honest to declare.

      • Cliff
        December 31, 2011, 1:01 am

        Richard Witty calls Palestinians a necessary wrong because in 1948, they were ethnically cleansed as a ‘necessary wrong’ for the establishment of a Greater Israel.

        Go to hell, Witty.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 6:31 am

          I call Palestine a nation.

          I oppose the concept of “greater Israel” and advocate for “enough Israel” (green line).

          You don’t like that I am proud that Israel exists, is a home. (Not mine personally, but was the birthplace of my wife.)

      • Koshiro
        December 31, 2011, 7:26 am

        It would be honest to declare.

        “Honest”. Now that’s a good word. It means something like “truthful”, right?

        Well, here’s a bit of truth:

        Israel is the Palestinians’ enemy! That’s the way our reality works!
        Maybe in Wittyverse, an institution that occupies your land, expels many of your people, reduces the rest of them to the status of third-class citizens at best, unfree serfs at worst, takes your natural resources, destroys your economic opportunity, routinely humiliates you just because it can and kills, maims or imprisons everybody who dares raise a finger against all this is not an enemy. But in this universe, it is.

        To not call Israel an enemy of the Palestinians would be a lie, and nothing else. No rational human being can honestly say that the state of Israel is a “neighbor” or, zenith of absurdity, a “friend” of the Palestinian people.

      • Walid
        December 31, 2011, 7:28 am

        Until Israel changes its evil ways, it is the enemy and will remain the enemy. If you would have been a resident of Gaza, what would you have called Israel?

      • Donald
        December 31, 2011, 2:36 pm

        “Neighbor. Human being.”

        So long as they stay on the other side of the fence and don’t try to come back to their homeland, that is.

        But you are right that the Merchant of Venice is anti-semitic. Though I don’t know what he meant by invoking it.

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 3:14 pm

          “So long as they stay on the other side of the fence and don’t try to come back to their homeland, that is.”

          Your projection.

        • Koshiro
          December 31, 2011, 4:03 pm

          “But you are right that the Merchant of Venice is anti-semitic.”
          You know, the anti-semitic interpretation is just one. One other plausible view of Shylock’s speech in particular is as a poignant expression of the rage of the oppressed as a trait that may collide with Christian morals, but is basically very human. This is the way I have always interpreted this part of the play.

        • James North
          December 31, 2011, 4:07 pm

          Koshiro is right. Waleed, a Palestinian in Gaza, knows more about Shakespeare than the American English-speaker Richard Witty. One theory is that Shakespeare took a stock character of the time, the financially rapacious Jew, and through his genius gave him a human dimension. If the play were simply anti-Semitic it would not continue to be performed.’

        • Richard Witty
          December 31, 2011, 4:16 pm

          You had to take a pot-shot at me?

          “Also, read literature. Mainly “The Merchant of Venice,” by Shakespeare. I think that Shakespeare speaks my mind at some points.”

          Walleed can return and clarify what he meant, whether he meant an anti-semitic allusion, or something more “subtle”.

          I took it as an anti-semitic warning. Meaning “Maybe Shakespeare was right in his very negative descriptions of Jews.”

        • Donald
          December 31, 2011, 10:17 pm

          ““So long as they stay on the other side of the fence and don’t try to come back to their homeland, that is.”

          Your projection.”

          Ah, no, it really isn’t. You are a master of doublethink. You don’t favor a one state solution, preferring that Israel remain a Jewish state. But you don’t like it when someone points out the implications of your own beliefs. That’s been shown over and over again.

        • Walid
          January 1, 2012, 1:08 pm

          “But you are right that the Merchant of Venice is anti-semitic. Though I don’t know what he meant by invoking it.”

          I always felt it was very anti-Jewish and very racist. On the other hand, Shakespeare was only reflecting the common thinking of his days about the Jews and he tried, although in a condescending manner, to show that they had a human side. I wasn’t happy with the ending.

    • eljay
      December 31, 2011, 7:28 pm

      >> How will you teach your family to co-exist with Israelis, with Jews, if you name us as “enemy”?

      This is too funny for words. Waleed – an oppressed Palestinian – rightly names oppressive Israelis as his enemy, and RW – an American – suddenly makes himself a victim of some imagined “verbal oppression”, all the while ignoring the entire thrust and horror of Waleed’s powerful message.

      RW is, truly, an ass.

  5. W.Jones
    December 30, 2011, 5:48 pm

    Jesus said to love the enemy and forgive them. He did not say there is no such thing as people who hate us.

    Likewise, the Palestinian author does not have to pretend a friendship that does not exist. He is saying he recognizes the racial-construct hatred against him and trying to avoid being sucked into it himself. May he succeed in the spiritual fight against hatred.

    • Walid
      December 31, 2011, 7:44 am

      “May he succeed in the spiritual fight against hatred.”

      You could wish some of that good stuff on the Israelis; they need it more than the Palestinians that more preoccupied with staying alive for another day while the bad guys are looking into more efficient ways of liquidating them.

      • W.Jones
        December 31, 2011, 12:50 pm

        Yes, it is a sad situation for me, and there are a few Israelis, who are trying to fight against hatred. May they succeed.

        And yet, the most important spiritual fight may begin within ourselves.

        Health and Happiness to you in the New Year, Walid.

        Salaam.

        • Walid
          January 1, 2012, 12:45 pm

          W.Jones, thanks and the same good wishes go out to you.

          Of course there are good Israelis but the actions of evil ones are drowning them out.

  6. Danaa
    December 31, 2011, 3:31 am

    Waleed, this is a very powerful piece. May you write many more such.

    Too bad our MSM – blogs included – won’t publish voices like yours. If it’s any comfort, they also rarely if ever give the podium to the real iraqis or the Afgans vanquished by our drones.

    Luckily, many of us here listen, and a few in Israel too (no, not too many, alas). And each of us passes things on to others. And it all has an effect – not always instantly visible. But in time, more and more bits of the truth will be trickle out, until one day, it’ll be a torrent.

  7. Waleed Meadana
    December 31, 2011, 8:05 pm

    Richard Witty says:
    December 31, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    You had to take a pot-shot at me?

    “Also, read literature. Mainly “The Merchant of Venice,” by Shakespeare. I think that Shakespeare speaks my mind at some points.”

    Walleed can return and clarify what he meant, whether he meant an anti-semitic allusion, or something more “subtle”.

    I took it as an anti-semitic warning. Meaning “Maybe Shakespeare was right in his very negative descriptions of Jews.”

    Witty, you always consider the negative side of yours.!! Think big and read behind the lines, please.
    I myself have lots of close Jewish friends.. My dad has too.. seems like you cannot get it. It is not about “Jews”. It is about humilating the others and thinking that you are more superior than them. Operation Cast Lead /War on Gaza proved so.. We would accept a two-state soultion, but Israel would not. So it is not “us” who impedes peace process but those headstrong Israeli officials. All I want to say is that “let’s live in peace together side-by-side”.

    • James North
      December 31, 2011, 8:23 pm

      Waleed: Only on Mondoweiss would an articulate young multilingual person like yourself who is living under a violent siege that is a violation of international law have to reassure a prosperous (barely) unilingual American who is living far from any war zone — who has not in fact visited Israel since 1986, but who claims to know everything about it.

    • Annie Robbins
      December 31, 2011, 9:13 pm

      It is about humilating the others and thinking that you are more superior than them.

      waleed, even in your humiliated position richard seeks to humiliate you even further. it is never enough humiliation you have suffered..as we all can see he competes with you here. and why would that be?

      perhaps because after all the humiliation heaped on you your voice is so strong. he berates, he berates because this weapon is all that he knows. his is of the ‘superior positioning’ in relation to you (and all others of your ilk and your supporters) for he cannot nor will not admit the unflinching moral superiority of your stance.

      and, it is crystal clear to all of us witnessing.

      touche!

    • Richard Witty
      December 31, 2011, 9:35 pm

      So, do you understand how when you (or someone representing you in the headline) declares “enemy”, but without naming specific persons, institutions, etc. and in language that might be construed as permanent and unconditional, that that invokes some fear?

      That’s all I was trying to say.

      That ambiguity, any possible ambiguity, will be taken in the most defensive terms, unless clarified as not meant that way.

      So long as a gang here jumped on my comment, before you got to respond, it got out of hand.

      I agree with you that Israel has rejected peace, and I consistently describe that as misguided, harmful, a betrayal of my understanding of the Zionist ideal which is of “live and let live”.

      I’m sure that their support is helpful, but to the extent that they exagerate communication problems, they harm you further.

      We have enough war. We need people that will see the others’ comments charitably as opportunities to reconcile, rather than opportunities to rile.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 31, 2011, 9:38 pm

        So, do you understand how when you (or someone representing you in the headline)

        richard, that’s about as far as i f’ing got. waleed wrote enemy in the headline and in the text. are you accusing the site of placing that word in the headline? or me? do you think that was my doing? just spit it out/AGAIN why don’t you.

      • john h
        December 31, 2011, 9:53 pm

        Me, me, me, “do you understand my fear, my understanding, my comment”….

        You are so full of yourself and so unfeeling that you have the insolence to talk to a Gazan about what you call “the Zionist ideal”, something found only in your vivid imagination, not recognizing that Zionist Israel is a gang that jumped on them time and again for many decades with extreme loss of life and liberty as their living example of Zionist reality.

        We all see so clearly what you have no awareness of, living in your fairytale ivory tower, that It is about humilating the others and thinking that you are more superior than them.

      • john h
        December 31, 2011, 10:30 pm

        We need people that will see the others’ comments charitably as opportunities to reconcile, rather than opportunities to rile.

        That’s exactly what you could and should have done in response to Waleed’s article. You did the very opposite.

        to the extent that they exaggerate communication problems, they harm you further.

        Always blaming others, never taking personal responsibility.

        You are like a thousand bulls in a china shop; everything you touch is damaged and harmed.

        Such a classic hypocrite, someone who fails dismally to practice what he preaches, and doesn’t even know that he doesn’t.

        There’s no one here more prone to “exaggerate communication problems” than you are, Richard. You’re always telling us we’ve misunderstood you.

      • Bumblebye
        December 31, 2011, 10:45 pm

        RW
        The Zionist ideal has NEVER EVER been “live and let live”!
        It has ALWAYS been “live and let LEAVE” at its least harmful!
        People here are incapable of penetrating the dense fog of hasbara that constitutes your mind – in part because of your hypersensitivity to the merest perceived insult or slightest provocation of “fear”, which is combined with your impervious INSENSIBILITY to the slurs you cast on those who either disagree with you or utterly fail to comprehend the weird way you combine words.

  8. Annie Robbins
    December 31, 2011, 9:35 pm

    You always tear our soft bodies apart. You smash our bones. You burn our flesh. For GOD’s sake, WE ARE HUMANS!

    sorry, just had to repeat that.

    • Richard Witty
      December 31, 2011, 9:41 pm

      “You always tear our soft bodies apart. You smash our bones. You burn our flesh. For GOD’s sake, WE ARE HUMANS! ”

      As are we. We share that.

  9. john h
    January 1, 2012, 12:05 am

    Face it Richard, you are a successful thread highjacker, it must make you so proud.

    Over 140 posts, and virtually every one all about sweet little innocent misunderstood and misunderstanding you.

    You owe a real apology to Waleed, as I feel I do because I have taken part in depriving him of his freedom to be appreciated as he is and for what he wrote.

    Waleed, I am sorry your heartfelt cry for justice and peace has been lost in our welter of verbiage here. I know it is nothing compared with what you describe so clearly of your long experience with Israelis. I am sorry that I have contributed to what has, overall, taken away from the impact of your own story and what you shared from the depths of your own heart.

    And such a heart it is. Your gentle but clear response to RW is so special and and so gracious, such a fine example. Thanks so much.

    • Danaa
      January 1, 2012, 12:55 pm

      john h to Waleed – apology seconded.

      • Philip Weiss
        January 1, 2012, 1:36 pm

        Allow me to echo John H’s apology to Waleed.
        Waleed:
        We are deeply grateful that you have shared your ideas with us in America and the rest of the world, taking risks inside a tiny territory under siege from the 4th largest army in the world. We admire your courage and were inspired by your inspiration. I apologize that thru careless comment moderation, we allowed Richard Witty’s comments on your post to dominate the response to it.
        We urge you to try us again and count on us to show greater control over the manner in which the conversation about your ideas is conducted.
        HAppy new year!!!

        Phil

        • Donald
          January 1, 2012, 1:43 pm

          I also apologize, as I’m one of those who was part of the group responding to RW. I gotta cut back on that.

  10. Quagmire
    January 1, 2012, 8:27 am

    Witty is a liberal zionist who doesn’t like blood on his hands. But when pressed, he’s perfectly ok with someone else shedding blood for Jewish supremacism.

    Such people have immense influence in the media especially in the US, and virtual total control of most ‘progressive’ media.

    Why are they allowed to go on and on here, a forum that’s supposed to provide alternative points of view?

    • CloakAndDagger
      January 1, 2012, 10:14 am

      @ Quagmire


      Why are they allowed to go on and on here, a forum that’s supposed to provide alternative points of view?

      To paraphrase another, I find what RW, 3e, et. al., have to say here quite reprehensible, and often disgusting, however, I will fight till my dying breath for them to have the right to say so. Freedom of speech only makes sense when you disagree with the views of the speaker , no matter how obnoxious.

      We just have to counter their insanity with our humanity.

    • Richard Witty
      January 1, 2012, 11:34 am

      I am not interested in “Jewish supremacism”. That is a line that someone else told you and you somehow decided to repeat.

      I am interested in my community’s survival and well-being.

      There is very very sadly blood on every advocate’s hands. You think that the second intifada didn’t happen, that mass murders of civilians didn’t happen?

      And, motivated by the very same arguments posed here, even by the more moderate Palestinian solidarity?

      The better questions are to find alternatives that are NOT warring ones, that are not suppressive ones in any form, and that are not warring or suppressive BOTH ways.

      And, that takes talking and understanding the other respectfully, not dismissively, not for the purpose of propaganda.

      And, also, for us Zionists, to note what elements of Zionism are necessary to remain alive, versus what are expendible.

      • Donald
        January 1, 2012, 1:08 pm

        “You think that the second intifada didn’t happen, that mass murders of civilians didn’t happen?”

        You don’t mention that the overwhelming majority of the killing of civilians in the second intifada was conducted by the Israelis. It would actually help your case, asking for the mutual respect, if you acknowledged that every time you bring it up, before pointing out that Israeli civilians were murdered, but you never do. I shouldn’t have to point this out to someone who claims to want mutual respect. That’s not a “cheap shot”–it’s the simple truth. (I have to say I’ve never seen much difference in your responses whether I am angry, sarcastic, or direct and straightforward and calm when I respond to you. None of it seems to register except as an unfair attack in your mind.)

        • Hostage
          January 1, 2012, 3:28 pm

          “You think that the second intifada didn’t happen, that mass murders of civilians didn’t happen?”

          Yes, in 2000 the UN Commission on Human Rights reported:

          “widespread, systematic and gross violations of human rights perpetrated by the Israeli occupying Power, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute war crimes, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and crimes against humanity.”

          See E/CN.4/RES/S-5/1 19 October 2000 link to unispal.un.org

  11. Waleed Meadana
    January 1, 2012, 10:10 am

    Richard Witty says:
    December 31, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    “You always tear our soft bodies apart. You smash our bones. You burn our flesh. For GOD’s sake, WE ARE HUMANS! ”

    As are we. We share that.

    Witty, do not steal my ideas and thoughts please to serve what you believe to be a “necassary wrong”.

  12. Mooser
    March 6, 2012, 8:03 pm

    So this was the straw which broke the chamoole’s back and got Witty banned.

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