The Catholic church's sex abuse scandal turns out to be epochal: it is having salutary effects across society in institutions that have covered up abuse-- at university athletic programs, for instance. Now the New York Times is exposing patterns of covering up sexual abuse inside the community of a quarter million ultra-Orthodox Jews in New York. This is great reporting by Sharon Otterman and Ray Rivera:
Abuse victims and their families have been expelled from religious schools and synagogues, shunned by fellow ultra-Orthodox Jews and targeted for harassment intended to destroy their businesses....
“There is no nice way of saying it,” Mrs. [Pearl] Engelman [mother of sexual abuse victim] said. “Our community protects molesters. Other than that, we are wonderful.”
Rabbi Nuchem Rosenberg of Williamsburg, for example, has been shunned by communal authorities because he maintains a telephone number that features his impassioned lectures in Yiddish, Hebrew and English imploring victims to call 911 and accusing rabbis of silencing cases. He also shows up at court hearings and provides victims’ families with advice. His call-in line gets nearly 3,000 listeners a day.
In 2008, fliers were posted around Williamsburg denouncing him. One depicted a coiled snake, with Mr. Rosenberg’s face superimposed on its head. “Nuchem Snake Rosenberg: Leave Tainted One!” it said in Hebrew. The local Satmar Hasidic authorities banned him from their synagogues, and a wider group of 32 prominent ultra-Orthodox rabbis and religious judges signed an order, published in a community newspaper, formally ostracizing him. “The public must beware, and stay away from him, and push him out of our camp, not speak to him, and even more, not to honor him or support him, and not allow him to set foot in any synagogue until he returns from his evil ways,” the order said in Hebrew.
“They had small children coming to my house and spitting on me and on my children and wife,” Rabbi Rosenberg, 61, said in an interview....
“If a guy in our community gets diagnosed with cancer, the whole community will come running to help them,” [Rabbi Tzvi Gluck] said. “But if someone comes out and says they were a victim of abuse, as a whole, the community looks at them and says, ‘Go jump in a lake.’ ”
scum. and to be clear, this isn’t just protection of the abusers from outside scrutiny, this policy effectively promotes the abusive conduct. the catholic church’s handling of its culture of abuse ended any hope of reconciliation between me and my immediate family and the church (my mother is a member of many groups actively advocating for the open inclusion of homosexuals in the church, the ordination of women, etc. who advocate reform not revolution necessarily) i consider myself catholic only in the ethnic cultural sense. the vatican and its enablers can go f*ck themselves. and so can these pigs.
Marc, not to defend the churches’ handling of the scandal, but on a local level here in DC, the arch diocese has done a lot to help clean up the problem. In order to volunteer at my child’s school, I had to get fingerprinted and take a training class that all volunteers, teachers, preists and bishops have to go through. They’ve screened out an awful lot of folks this way, but nothing is fool proof.
Only speaking on my experiences with a local church/school, they’ve been so warm and welcoming and kind to my family and our child. Wish I could pay the Catholic tuition rate, but hey, they’re willing to accept a child who’s dad is Jewish, so it’s all good.
mark, it’s easy to say, but yes, you’re right, alot has been done, particularly at the local level. i had my kids in parochial school for years and have nothing but good things to say about the experience. on the other hand i see that creep the former archbishop of boston bernard francis law flying off in his skirt to the vatican to live out his golden years in luxury and i just see bright red.
My parents were life-long Roman Catholics; they sent us kids to Catholic grade school, only a couple of years when they could afford it. I’m glad the priest scandal erupted after my mother died because she had a lot of faith to be taken down, the kind who said a rosary every night. Alone, my father drifted, but the priest scandal finished off any religious belief his wife had welded to his natural skepticism while she was alive. He died despising the church. OTOH, my son received a good education in Catholic HS; my Jewish wife insisted, and I figured she knew what she was talking about since she was a lifer teacher in the Chicago Public School System.
I am sure this can be somehow tied up to Israel and the Occupation but
i just can’t see it at the moment.
Maybe seafoid or chaos would?
Or is it an off topic article ?
I agree Oleg. Nothing to do with the occupation.
The occupation is bad enough already.
I’m trying to figure it out myself. Maybe the fact that these guys are anti-Zionists?
were you guys around when phil wrote about that football coach pedophile in pennsylvania a couple months ago?
Fair enough, but you could argue that the Joe Paterno post showed he was concerned about injustice in all its forms. That would add weight to his concern about Israel’s behavior towards Palestinians, make it harder to claim he was just going after Jewish malfeasance.
This post makes it seems like he’s mainly interested in injustice (or abuse) committed by Jews. It then undermines his concern about Israel’s behavior towards Palestinians.
iow, your argument is that the non jewish pedophile showed he was concerned about all forms of injustice but the jewish pedophile indicates he’s interested in jews.
got it. that’s quite an argument you got goin there evets/not.
This post makes it seems like he’s mainly interested in injustice (or abuse) committed by Jews.
Clue for you here. This is also showing a concern for injustice committed AGAINST Jews. Who do you think the victims are here? Christian Scientists? Presbyterians? Sikhs? Muslims? No, the sexual abuse was perpetrated against Orthodox Jewish children.
This is also showing a concern for injustice committed AGAINST Jews.
but but but…ahhhh… it’s so confusing and..complicated!
Yeah but the article in general is concerned with something gone badly wrong in the ultra-Orthodox community. That’s the thrust. That’s the taste it leaves in the mouth. And that’s the taste it should leave. But, to the extent that Phil Weiss focuses disproportionately on flaws in the Jewish world unconnected to the I/P situation, his case against Israeli actions can be construed as part of a general obsession with Jewish misbehavior. I don’t think it helps his cause.
/I don’t think it helps his cause./
Maybe that’s because Phil does have an obsession with Jewish misbehavior.
It’s like a known Jewish trait to always be interested whether this or that successful person was/is a Jew or not.
Only Phil made his own twist to it.
Maybe it’s like that.
evets, there is an entire site dedicated to the quirks of the orthodox community called failed messiah. the amount of pedophilia in that community is heavily documented, except generally only in the local press, rarely in the national discourse, unlike the scandal w/catholicism. but it’s there for all to see post after post after post after post. finally the nyt writes about it.
if phil were interested in pushing this stuff there’s a ton to choose from but he hasn’t. it’s a little different when its on the front page of the nyt. he writes about it and what do you guys talk about? phil writing about it.
funny you seem to have no concern whatsoever for the victims of child abuse here. maybe you guys are just obsessed with phil, eh?
You’re right. What business of Phil’s is any of this – it’s not like he’s Jewish.
I thought he was American first?
Yeah but the article in general is concerned with something gone badly wrong in the ultra-Orthodox community. That’s the thrust. That’s the taste it leaves in the mouth. And that’s the taste it should leave. ,/i>
Then stop complaining so loudly.
I don’t think it helps his cause.
Articles about “Jewish identity” have been regular features here for a long time. I think this just shows that Phil cares about that subject and the role that the Rabbis in this community are playing as authority figures in covering-up or exposing a problem that effects the members of the Jewish community.
The news on this subject also details how the Brooklyn district attorney is criticized for his handling of ultra-Orthodox Jewish child sex-abuse cases. And he’s been following custom, a custom that robs the secular law of any teeth to protect abused children when they belong to this particular Jewish community. A lighter analog is separation of the sexes on public buses running though the neighborhood, if memory serves.
I think the subject ties in with Phil’s stance that the Jewish community, including the Orthodox sub-community, should end the absurd notion that they are special victims these days, either in USA or elsewhere–because the favoritism they are shown will be their long-term undoing, whether he’s talking Israel or a local community that is so blind it cannot see what it’s doing to its own children.
Or is it an off topic article ?
really just shut the eff up olerg. what mental process lead you to believe that your inmmature snark could be appropriately inserted at this particular moment is a question for you and your psychiatrist and probably shouldn’t be publicly exposed.
the article and the conduct speak for themselves, at least to anyone capable of the slimmest of objectivity, but since you’re apparently too busy masturbating your ego to notice, israel and the occupation are not the only topics discussed here. putz.
I do apologize if i struck a nerve here.
The snark was not directed at the issue described in the article
but at the author.
It’s really disgusting that in the case of even sexual abuse in the Jewish community, you have nothing else to say but accuse MW of being anti-Israel.
You’re a pathetic cultist.
>> I am sure this can be somehow tied up to Israel and the Occupation but i just can’t see it at the moment.
According to Mrs. Engleman: “Our community protects molesters.” Israelis may be protective of their Jewish state’s immorality but, as crazy at it may sound, the Jewish state is not the only place in the world where the Chosen People do immoral things.
Yes, but this website is supposedly about criticizing Israel, not about bashing Jews. And yet, somehow, they end up posting anything that makes Jews look bad, anywhere in the world. It is a fair question to ask “why?”.
>> Yes, but this website is supposedly about criticizing Israel, not about bashing Jews. And yet, somehow, they end up posting anything that makes Jews look bad, anywhere in the world. It is a fair question to ask “why?”.
It’s been pretty evident to me that this site, while being primarily focused on the I-P issue, is not exclusively about “criticizing Israel”.
This thread is about a story in the New York Times. Rather than expressing disgust at the immorality of members of your nation / people / tribe / community / religion, you’re here expressing dismay that Phil is not helping to hush it up. Nice colours you’re showing there.
fred, that’s your interepretation of what ‘this website is supposedly about . . ..’ but it isn’t, and you don’t even have to go off the scroll to see other articles that discuss the topic of the relationship between american jews and larger society. admittedly this article does not place some jews in a very complementary light, but its their medieval conduct that invites criticism. i don’t have any more sympathy for your feelings of persecution here than i had for catholics who complained about the bad press the church got for covering up sexual abuse.
and by the way, thank you for not couching your questions in the snide, arch tone taken by others. i mean that sincerely.
“they end up posting anything that makes Jews look bad, anywhere in the world.”
I would think the best remedy for that is to not sexually abuse. Just as many Catholics work hard to expose wrongdoing in their community, so do many Jews. If my Rabbi is screwing a kid I’ll shout it from the rooftops.
Besides, isn’t this helping to expose a problem in our homeland?
This blog is about showing Israel a sustainable future away from the madness and nihilism of Likidnik/Kadimik messianic Zionism.
@markb
People on this site often deny that it is anti-Jew. Yes the particular article is about bad people who happen to be Jews, but it doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the only Jews written about on this site are bad ones, other than ones who are lauded for turning against Israel and their fellow Jews.
but it doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the only Jews written about on this site are bad ones
that’s just not true fred. in fact, it’s absurd.
>> … other than ones who are lauded for turning against Israel and their fellow Jews.
They are rightly lauded for choosing morality, justice, human rights and just plain decency over the immoral, unjust and narrow-minded tribalism Zio-supremacists like you stand for and advocate for.
fred, again that’s just your perspective. from my perspective phil goes out of his way to find the best bits in even the most ignorant, talentless of jews. take tom friedman or jeffrey goldenberg for example whom he still finds a way to refer to as ‘intelligent’ or whatever misnomer he employs. for christ sake, he tried to find a way to make that shully hecht character sound like a mensch, and tied himself into drunken pretzels doing it. phil is fixated on jews/himself, the jewish question, jews in america, jewish authors, jews in the matchbook industry, …. so you can’t wheel out the charge of obsession selectively. his disorder is what makes him so informed.
FREDBLOGS- “…but it doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the only Jews written about on this site are bad ones, other than ones who are lauded for turning against Israel and their fellow Jews.”
With all due respect, I think that your strong bias has caused you to misconstrue this post and the purpose of Mondoweiss. It seems to me that the lesson of the post is that this particular group places organizational solidarity above human rights and elementary moral decency. This is not an exclusively Jewish problem, nor is the behavior of a group of ultra-Orthodox Jews typical of American Jews, however defined. The point is that when group loyalty trumps group morality, you are headed for trouble. Does this pertain to the Middle East? You betcha! It also pertains to empire and our responsibilities in that area as well.
@Annie Robbins
I’m always willing to be proven wrong. So please link to a few articles on this site that show Jews in a positive light, that isn’t about Jews who are against Israel or against other Jews. With all the charity work and good deeds done by Jews it shouldn’t be that hard to find positive stories about them in the media. So show me some that this site has reported.
i went to the top of the page to the archives link. grabbed any month (i picked november) and started checking out phil’s posts from top to bottom. it took me about a minute to find this:
link to mondoweiss.net
Fredblogs,
If someone brings up sexual abuse scandals in the orthodox Jewish community on a blog that is devoted to the Israel Palestine conflict but also deals with Jewish identity related issues, is it being off-topic?
No.
You’re doing damage control strangely enough. Why? Do you feel solidarity with pedophiles because they are Jewish and/or zionists?
Sick.
“Besides, isn’t this helping to expose a problem in our homeland?”
Errr – which homeland is that? The one you were born in, raised in, went to school in, got married in, had your children in, and where you live now, or the real homeland to which you have never been but have some sort of vague cultural connection?
Annie,
Did you even read that article you linked to?! It comepletly makes Fred’s point, which was, Jews are only presented in a good light here when they criticize Israel.
@Annie Robbins
The point was to find one about a good Jew that _isn’t_ about a Jew who is turning against Israel. Awesome. Mr. Weiss actually uses the phrase “should be lauded” about this Jew who is turning against Israel. Finding praise of a Jew who is on your side isn’t impressive. Try finding one article about a Jew, doing something good, where the “good” thing isn’t supporting the Palestinians against Israel.
“on your side or supporting your side” that is.
i didn’t see Avishai as turning against israel or jews. i saw him as trying to find a solution.
and please stop moving the goal posts fred. here is what you said:
doesn’t seem to be a coincidence that the only Jews written about on this site are bad ones, other than ones who are lauded for turning against Israel and their fellow Jews.
still not concerned with the children eh, you guys are obsessed with phil. i’m done helping you spam this thread.
Well you don’t get Phil fredblogs.
Phil actually does identify as a Jew in a “heritage- people way”….that is why he is so offended by criminal Israel….because of what he thinks it does/says/shows/etc. & is doing to Jews. Yes he is tribal himself in some ways.
BUT in this story he is pointing out, I think, a really extreme version of that in the Jews who are threatening the Rabbi for exposing this along with also pointing out the Jewish Rabbi is a good guy.
OR, it could be just another story of people covering for sexual child abuse.
So what’s your problem with it?
Fred has a point. What about the rights and privacy of child molesters?
Brilliant comment Marc B.
Fredblogs, the Jews this blog is often concerned about are those Jews and their Establishment that are short-sighted, both about what is good for the Jews here and in Israel, and also good for the USA, and the world–in the long er run. This blog is not about “turning against Israel and fellow Jews” but about being a friend to both–and a good friend will criticize you to your face if that friend sees how you are ruining your own life, and those you say you care about.
Yes, but this website is supposedly about criticizing Israel, not about bashing Jews.
This is a story about Jewish people who are being victimized by some of the authorities in their own community and the response of good Rabbis who are speaking-up and fighting back against a formal campaign that is designed to silence the victims and keep them from reporting crimes and abuse.
The NYT and MW are helping the victims, like the Engleharts, and the Rabbis, like Nuchem Rosenberg and Tzvi Gluck speak out. It looks like you are trying to silence everyone with your dickish comments. It’s people like you who look bad, not Phil Weiss. Stay classy.
I don’t have a problem with the nyt posting it, the nyt isn’t anti-Jew. The problem is that this site is exclusively about bashing Jews,other that Jews that agree with Mr. Weiss.
The problem is that this site is exclusively about bashing Jews
obviously if that was the case you would loose your posting privileges. we also would not have all those posts discussing beinart and many many others. you’re like a broken record. why can’t you go somewhere elese if you don’t like the discussion here? do you think you will change things by complaining about them? phil has written a new post addressing your accusations
link to mondoweiss.net
and still, you persist. this site documents the nakba and the injustices of zionism along with other things. there is no balance in that ongoing crime just as there is no balance justifying war crimes and no balance justifying the holocaust. the intent is not to balance the crime. if you want balance go elsewhere. or why not post comments yourself about people in the ultra orthodox community trying to fix this? they are there, they are even mentioned in the story. highlight them yourself, why not?
your tunnel vision doesn’t allow you to see the words of the 4 page article phil chose to republish highlighting the balance, does it? you see only what you want to see and disregard the rest and litter the threads with your constant complaints, spamming off topic making it about phil or the site. either engage in the topic or do not engage.
I don’t have a problem with the nyt posting it, the nyt isn’t anti-Jew. The problem is that this site is exclusively about bashing Jews,other that Jews that agree with Mr. Weiss.
You spend most of your time here posting shopworn propaganda and kvetching. It sounds like you’re upset because the real world doesn’t operate on the principle of the Negroponte doctrine. Anti-Zionist Jews do exist and we don’t have to manipulate history in order to have a conversation about our own communities and the day to day acts committed in our name by the so-called “Jewish state”.
@Annie Robbins
Beinart was posted about because of his positions that agree with Mr.Weiss. The section you quoted was from the original article, not from Mr.Weiss.
What the Irish Zionist (this week) is saying is that, zionists are in solidarity with pedophiles.
So Fred, you are offended by MW reporting on pedophilia in the orthodox Jewish community but not about the issue itself. Yet, when MW reports on the Israel-Palestine conflict directly, you are as vile as ever anyways. You will still disassemble along with the other trolls/sockpuppets/rejects like terryscott, OlegR, Mayhem, hophmi, etc.
In this case, you are in solidarity with pedophiles. Disgusting but unsurprising considering you are often in solidarity with ethnic cleansing, colonialism, bureaucracy laden injustice and racism, etc.
“Or is it an off topic article ?”
When you run a successful blog, you can post topics that are important to you.
I applaud Phil for it. As pointed out from other posters, it’s a problem that has scarred people from many different eligious and ethnic backgrounds.
Want to be horrifed? Plow through the U.S. foster care system. Every single child represents a tragedy of epic proportions, over 500,000 of them.
But I can bring it around to Israel in a ’round about kinda way Oleg – tossing 3 billion a year out the door in welfare to Israel surely could be better spent here at home helping victims of sexual abuse and prosecuting those responsible, no? Heck, it might even help those stuck in foster care find a home, treatment, etc., no?
/ tossing 3 billion a year out the door in welfare to Israel surely could be better spent here at /
I am so tired of repeating the simple fact that this money goes right back into the US economical system.
Anyway i see that people actually took seriously my jab at Phil.
And since this topic is really not about Israel and it deals with a real and a serious problem i will refrain from further comments regarding I/P
here.
I’m sick and tired if debunking it.
First of all, only 75% of it is spent on arms industry in the US, which is not part of the US economy, but a massive financial sink hole.
Israel back engineers the US technology and flogs it to China.
The money is borrowed by the US to give to Israel, so the US pays interest on the borrowing. Then because Israel gets the cash up
front, it buys US government bonds with the money, which skims more money from the US is interest.
And that doesn’t even take into account the tens if billions in forgiven loans and loan guarantees (loans Israel doesn’t repay).
Shingo, OlegR does not want to hear your facts about US aid to Israel. Also, he seems to think we Americans here are happy about how the aid to Israel feeds into the Military-Industrial Complex Ike warned us all about (as well as to enmeshment with foreign country, as Washington warned us about). Some of us here would like to see the Pentagon not only audited, but its budget cut by half. God knows we could use the money, as MarkF points out. Israel has a higher bond rating than the USA, and yet we continue to underwrite Israel’s debt.
Abuse of children is evil, pure and simple
and it crosses community and religious lines
link to guardian.co.uk
“Abuse of children is evil, pure and simple
and it crosses community and religious lines”
Damned straight. Especially evil are those who are supposed to be “pious”.
Julie Bindel
“Our complacency about organised sexual exploitation leads to few convictions, regardless of the ethnicity of perpetrators”
link to guardian.co.uk
The weakest members of society are the most vulnerable
“”He made me feel pretty,” said the victim who tried to raise the alarm four years ago, of the first man to rape her. The abuse of young girls who lack the kind of family life that would keep them safe has been steadily increasing for years. A third of the victims are in care, the rest tend to come from poor homes, to have low self-esteem and little confidence in their ability to change their lives: easy pickings for the exploitative and unscrupulous”
link to guardian.co.uk
“They had small children coming to my house and spitting on me and on my children and wife.”
What’s with the spitting?
link to csmonitor.com
link to 972mag.com
“What’s with the spitting?” indeed! having known the cultural significance of throwing a shoe at somebody in the Arab world, this spitting business appears to be the Jewish version of it, albeit a litte less hygeinic.
Perhaps the more knowledgable folks here (and there are plenty on this site/thread) would care to explain.
Having said that, there is absolutely nothing Jewish about this type of child abuse. All minority and super close knit religious societies are susceptible to this type of folly. It comes from a strong desire not to air the family’s dirty laundry lest the “other” might use it agains them.
Abu, it’s an old European Jewish tradition to spit on churches when one passes by; these days, Israeli Jews have resurrected this custom from pre-Enlightenment days, in Israel, where they spit directly on Christian clergy & nuns, etc–it’s been in the news lately.
i’m kind of amazed the nyt finally put this on the front page. it’s been a scandal in ny for a long time. at the very end of the nyt article it says:
“Friday: The Brooklyn district attorney is criticized for his handling of ultra-Orthodox Jewish child sex-abuse cases”
big news in ny:
link to newsinferno.com
link to sfjny.org
annie, there were similar issues regarding the insularity of the brooklyn jewish community after the murder of Leiby Kletzky last summer.
link to thejewishweek.com
There was a sign outside the apartment in Borough Park where Leiby Kletzky’s family was sitting shiva for him last week that said: “DO NOT share rumors, stories and information you have heard – at all!!”
It’s not unsusual for the authorities to turn away when the crime happens in a minority community. Here’s a Zionist in Manchester UK who makes the point quite eloquently
link to guardian.co.uk
• There is one controversial aspect of the Rochdale sexual grooming case: that originally the Crown Prosecution Service had decided not to prosecute two of the men convicted on Tuesday and that, as a result, the offences continued for a further two years. It was only with the appointment of a Muslim, Nazir Afzal, last summer to the post of chief crown prosecutor that this decision was reversed. Was his predecessor inhibited from action by considerations of political correctness?
Martin D Stern
Salford, Greater Manchester
did catholic priests accused of child sex crimes similarly receive blanket protection from being identified?
Sexual molestation of children is horrific. But cutting off parts of their genitals at birth *is* okay? We should be at least as outraged about the latter as the former. Genital mutilation is taking place in broad daylight in Jewish congregations, and in mainstream secular American medical settings. Where’s the outrage, the accountability, the demand for justice? Why do parents and Rabbis think they have the “right” to take away this choice from infants who can’t speak for themselves; infants who, if they were left intact, would be highly unlikely to get circumcised as adults? The overwhelming majority of intact men I know say circumcision is madness and they are very glad it wasn’t done to them, as they enjoy having intact genitals and the natural sexual pleasure provided by the foreskin. It bothers me to see all this outrage over Rabbincal molesters but no outrage about forced genital cutting of infants!
It makes the catching and transmitting of STDs less likely. That’s why they are circumcising adults in Africa now.
Fredblogs,
See the Doctors Opposing Circumcision website at link to doctorsopposingcircumcision.org — they say that there is no clear evidence that circumcision prevents STDs, and in fact, there is evidence to the contrary. Furthermore, see the Canadian Children’s Rights Council — link to canadiancrc.com — they say that circumcision of both males and females is an “assault” that should be outlawed.
For sake of discussion, if cutting off part of a baby girl’s genitals were *conclusively proven* to lower the risk of STDS, would we do it in this country? Heck no! Feminists would be up in arms about such an atrocity, and rightly demand that grown women be able to make such a choice for themselves. Why don’t we protect baby boys too?
It’s in fact illegal to circumcise a newborn girl. Why should it be legal to circumcise a newborn boy (whose choice is taken away), when it’s illegal to do the same to a girl? Don’t boys deserve equal rights? Don’t men of the age of consent deserve the right to make this choice for themselves?
Condoms and responsible sexual choices prevent STDs, not cutting off body parts!
My point is: circumcision is child abuse; it’s in fact a form, arguably, of sexual child abuse; and why is there no outrage here on this discussion thread about this form of abuse? It’s disgusting that this practice goes on in broad daylight and so few are speaking out against it. Yes, religious-shieled sexually molestation of children deserves condemnation, but so does cutting off body parts!
A half century from now, most of humanity will see infant circumcision for what it is: barbaric, abusive genital mutilation, that must be stopped.
Matthew Taylor, you are correct and that’s why Europe quit routine circumcision of baby boys decades ago; the US is the only Western country that still supports the practice, although that support has been falling off in the medical community here and hence in the general public for at least 30 years. It’s only recently that across the land parents are even being instructed that there is no medical need for circumcision. It’s been done way too long now without even asking the expectant parents. Doctors, hospitals get paid and each circumcision adds up to a lot of money (paid for by Medicaid in many states), plus, the foreskins are sold to the cosmetics industry for another tidy aggregate profit–off the painful abuse of baby boys for new medical reason, when they are totally helpless.
Thank you Citizen for your several comments about circumcision. I appreciate knowing I’m not the only one on this thread who feels outrage about this.
Your welcome, Matthew Taylor. To supplement what we’ve already said here about this stupid barbaric practice of routine male baby circumcision in America, which is definitely a case of boys not getting equal protection as girls on this literally painful issue, money saved by defunding circumcision can go to necessary, life-saving healthcare, improving healthcare to the poor. Circumcision proponents say that defunding Medicaid paid circumcisions reduce healthcare for the poor; this is not only false, but also unethical. Infant circumcision is not healthcare; defunding circumcision means more money is available for healthcare. This claim is substantiated by the Federal Government; the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services has defined elective circumcision (ICD-9-CM V50.2) as medically unnecessary. And, Congress appropriates funds only for medically necessary services (42 U.S.C. 1396(1)). Infant circumcision is not recommended by any national medical health organization in the world, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the American Cancer Society.
Routine, non-therapeutic infant circumcision costs taxpayers up to $70 million annually, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics. Costs are more when payments for complications and extended hospital stays are included. Eighteen states reallocate millions of dollars each year by not funding infant circumcision (Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, Utah, and Washington). It’s really interesting that neither Obama nor any GOP POTUS candidate nor either party’s leaders in Congress has brought this issue up considering its Constitutional gravitas and the see-saw back and forth about what should be cut to help our horrible economy. One might ask, why?
US lawmakers are clueless about routine #circumcision of baby boys, which is a form of tax-payer funded child abuse: link to healthpolicysolutions.org
Colorado is the current bellweather state on the issue of routine baby boy #circumcision; it was cut from Medicaid, now a Jewish legislator wants it back in: link to healthpolicysolutions.org
Anyone who cares to do research on the subject with an objective mind will conclude this practice as a form of government-sponsored child abuse–actually infant abuse. The Europeans ditched the practice decades ago and have had no negative health results (just a lot of good sex).
It sure has been profitable for doctors, hospitals, and the cosmetic industry. Thanks to the long irresponsibility of the US medical profession, i’s an issue that’s been hard to face for many new expectant daddy’s because Sonny won’t look like him. To the extent the issue has been dealt with in our pop culture, check out for example the Seinfeld issues that deal with circumcision. In one, if memory serves, Kramer sees it as a barbaric act; in another, the notion is the girls prefer circumcised penises because the uncut look queer, odd, Martian, etc; less aesthetic. European girls would find this vision absurd and counter to their own experience.
Oh, those doctors just want to stop the Jews from maintaining our cultural practices. They ignore all the evidence. Same as people who want to stop Kosher slaughter, they say its for humanitarian reasons, but that is just a smokescreen. As for why boys and not girls, the male equivalent of female circumcision would be cutting off the penis, not cutting off the foreskin. The two procedures aren’t even close. There is no comparison.
“The World Health Organization (WHO; 2007), the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS; 2007), and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC; 2008) state that evidence indicates male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of HIV acquisition by men during penile-vaginal sex [but still use a condom].”
link to en.wikipedia.org
Rather, Fredblogs, US history on male circumcision reveals the contrary; the American Medical Establishment has long pushed such practice (at first, to cure masturbation & any actual physical ailment you can think of) despite any medical reason; this became the majority view beginning during WW2 (coincidentally, the time Jews in Europe were being forced to drop their pants by the Germans to identify Jewish males, which was well known to the rapidly growing number of Jewish American doctors). It was only in the late 1970s that the US medical establishment began to look at what the medical establishment in Europe had long known, and why the latter ended routine circumcision. It was painful to the baby and useless as a health recipe, and it deprived males of a wonderful part of their body much more useful than an appendix). For another score of years the American medical establishment became neutral on the issue, and only very belatedly did it decide to come out officially and say there’s no medical reason to circumcise routinely. And even later, American doctors began to advise prospective parents that the choice was theirs to make, and circumcision was cosmetic; in the most recent years the circumcision rate has been dropping off steadily in USA. Circumcision of males reduces transmission from women to men of HIV transmissions, but it only provides MINIMAL protection and by no means can and will NOT replace other prevention methods. There is insufficient evidence to show protection of male to female transmission and men who engage in anal sex with a female partner. CDC estimates that only 4 percent of men in the United States engage in MSM (Male to male sex); the rate of new HIV diagnoses among
MSM in the United States is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522 – 989 per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per
100,000 other men). link to cdc.gov
I retract my guess of 50% as to currently, although it likely was a good guess for around 1945:
“Jewish medical school candidates reportedly made up 60 percent of the applicant pool in 1934…. Michael Nevins, a New Jersey cardiologist who also studies the history of Jews in medicine, estimates that at the tail end of the 20th century there were between 80,000 and 100,000 Jewish physicians in the United States, comprising between 12 percent and 15 percent of the nation’s 684,414 medical doctors. Jews make up 2 percent of the total U.S. population. If Jewish doctors seemed more ubiquitous than these statistics imply, it is because they are clustered in major urban environments, especially in California and the Northeast. link to jewishjournal.com
>> Oh, those doctors just want to stop the Jews from maintaining our cultural practices. …
A primitive cultural practice that involves mutilating a male infant’s penis by snipping skin off it is a practice that is neither worth bragging about nor worth preserving.
If Jews really MUST snip skin off penises, they should just leave it be until the males are of consenting age, at which time they can gather together and have at each other with scissors.
>> As for why boys and not girls … The two procedures aren’t even close. There is no comparison.
Actually, there’s quite a bit of comparison: Both practices are cultural, both involve mutilation and both are opposed by those horrible doctors.
Fredblogs, the evidence in Africa now indicates that circumcised males are more prone to all the ailments, including STDs and AIDS, than the uncut African males.
Matthew Taylor, I share you outrage that in America (not Europe) routine baby boy circumcision is still more common than not (although it’s falling slowly) despite the fact even the doctors’ organizations have finally admitted there is no medical reason to justify it. It’s a fact that what is cut off is the most erotic nerve cells in the human male body, and that the foreskin also functions to increase sexual stimulation by its sliding action, and as well, babies cannot be numbed from the pain as their systems are too young to absorb pain medicine without harming their health immediately. Some states allow medicaid funds for such painful, barbaric and medically useless routine cutting. Talk about some spending we could cut without remorse! There’s a battle going on in some states about this practice and its governmental funding. Jewish groups say the protesters against the practice are violating their religious practice by trying to end routine circumcision in the state. I say it should at least be ended in all publicly funded hospitals and Christian hospitals. Jews can still have the mohel do it elsewhere; then it’s a case more similar in issue to the Ultra Orthodox subject here; who’s really thinking about the best interest of the Jewish child, or rather tiny baby boy?
Female circumcision of any type and at any age, even a mere nick at the clitoris, is outlawed in the USA, and this despite fact some Muslims have the custom.
Every single organization in the history of humankind that puts adults in authority positions over children will draw people interested in sexual relations with children – such jobs provide access … add the authority and respect of a religious position and they have that much more cover to commit abuse … what is newsworthy is how this has been covered-up
radii, and have you noticed, with equal opportunity, the growing number of cases of child abuse, of sex with underage boy students, involving female teachers, other professionals and service providers?
people are raising the question of the relevance to I/P.
for me it is quite relevant. this displays a quite common tendency among tribal/ethnic/religious groups to cover the crimes committed by those with power, within the group (if not even rationalize that a given crime, was not even a crime; eg israeli apartheid).
the members of the “group” almost assume a collective consciousness, thus become resistant to internalizing or even acknowledging crimes or injustice perpetrated by leaders of the “group”. they identify so strongly with the collective itself, they almost feel a personal responsibility for the actions of the few/elite (and the mirror of this stunted thinking, from the outside, fuels much of modern antisemitism). this often leads to either denial/rationalization (the way most jews support israeli lawlessness/crimes), or for some, quite the opposite, where people feel a need to tell the truth, change the collective actions, and profess “not in my name” (i think this personal reaction plays a subconscious role in how phil, myself, and many of jewish descent approach the conflict… our jewish heritage not only informed us of the conflict, but we do feel a personal responsibility of sorts, even if we disagree with such thought paradigms).
with jews, this sense of *tribalism* and loyalty to the tribe is quite thick. one used to ask “is it good for the jews?”. i am only ethnically, half jewish, but i still had some of this tribal feeling instilled in me. i still may.
one might still ask how an orthodox jewish community in brooklyn has any connection to the government of israel. i suggest it is connected in a loose way, but the larger point is that it shows a tribal means of action, exhibited across many groups, throughout all of known history.
the question is if an individual can realize they are subject to such self-destructive biases, and if they can rise above them.
this collective “consciousness” applies not only to religious/ethnic groups but to nationalities, for example, the denials or rationalizations often heard when reports surface that our presidents lie us into wars &/or that u.s. troops in afghanistan are committing war crimes.
anonymousecomments, & yourstruly, I agree with your comments. Another case in point a few years ago was that leader of that Mormon Fundamentalist break-away sect that continued with polygamy, FLDS.
He had tons of wives, many teen-agers and some as young as age 12. There was a documentary last week on cable TV showing how some have, and some have not come to grips with the fact they supported such abuse of young girls. Your comments are all illustrated in that documentary.
Philip,
I note that some are questioning the relevance of your article as to the Middle East equation. Is this article pro-this or anti-that? Does it support Jews or Palestinians?
If I may, from my perspective, share my thoughts on your article. I see it as an exploration of those who are in trusted and sometimes authoritative position(s) Whether that be within the Denominational boundaries of any Religion that does not properly weigh the gross injustice perpetrated upon the life of a child, through the act(s) of a sexual abuse which scar and victimize an innocent both physically, mentally and emotionally and through haunting trauma, perpetually.
It is criminal and an abhorrent abuse of [Human Rights] towards the life of a child, regardless of that child’s ethnicity or birthright. Can one advocate for crimes against humanity and then selectively and disproportionately balance that view based on heritage, which is a gift given to, not chosen by a child.
Others may not be able to appreciate the level of trust that is imparted to those which give counsel to others in their relationship to God. Whether the abuser is in a position of such trusted authority or is granted an ambiguous position of silence by that trusted authority they have taken part in a notorious evil.
Silenced by the shame of the act, instead of awakened in fury and contempt on behalf of the innocent child, vehemently condemning the action(s) regardless of any religious affiliation a pedophile may have.
Jesus, (a Jew) said It would be better for (the abuser) if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Do you stand up for what is right and condemn what is wrong or do you cover up, and ignore, the action(s) of your own belief systems? Political, religious, personal or otherwise…
Fredblogs,
This exclusive, self segregated community of Jews provides a window into extremes of religious nationalism in which many of the Jews in this Orthadox community are more concerned about remaining secretive, seperate and entitled than they are about child victims or the law of the land. A metaphor for Israel and her supporters.
dbroncos, very succinctly put. Thanks.
Except that these are Satmars. Far from religious nationalists, they are anti-Israel.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Except that these are Satmars. Far from religious nationalists, they are anti-Israel.
I think you mean the “State of Israel”, not “Israel”. The Satmar certainly do consider themselves part of Israel. They are religious Zionists who believe in a return to Zion too, even though they are opposed to Medinat Yisrael. Their Rabbis insist that the nation of Israel should not return to the Land in a mass aliya and establish a state. They believe that only the Jewish Messiah can bring that about.
dbroncos said that this is a self segregated community of Jews who identify on the basis of religious nationalism and that they are: “A metaphor for Israel and her supporters.”, when in fact they are literally a subset of Israel. So of course, they do provide a window into extremes of Jewish religious nationalism.
Satmar even keep separate from other Haredim. For example, they have withdrawn from Anti-Zionist protests because of the presence of Neturei Karta. link to books.google.com
I think one issue is “insularity”, which is that Haredi communities are little theocracies that discourage cooperation with the state, like police and DA. The more interesting issue is to what extend they manage to manipulate the political system of the state, in this case, DA office, and the second NYT article expands on that.
And indeed, one can recognize the patterns that are present in the interactions of USA with Israel, and manipulation of the political system in USA. One can also ponder what would happen if we treated our domestic politics in the same fashion as we treat Middle East. For example, in addressing the issue of victims of sexual molestation, should we examine if those putative victim belong to a “genuine” ethnic group or to an “invented” one? When the victims are invisible, there is no limit on absurdities.
“The more interesting issue is to what extend they manage to manipulate the political system of the state, in this case, DA office, and the second NYT article expands on that.”
That is the issue. Politicial and ethnic or religious considerations interfering in prosecutions of these people. …and really sick is ignoring or covering for some pedophile sports coach for the sake of the sport or team or college…the people who do that are as demented as the pedophile.
the DA is an elected official. sounds like he’s more interested in satisfying a component of his constituents than enforcing the law.
A sexual interest in young children (pedophilia) has always existed and been frowned on by society generally. It is only fairly recently that western legislation has deemed it criminal. Previously its practitioners would simply have been ostracized, or ignored if they were persons of power, like the emperor Tiberius or a quattrocento cardinal . Generally enforceable legislation against it is probably less than 100 years old. It shouldn’t really be confused with ephebophilia, a sexual preference for pubescent and adolescent boys which is also illegal in the west, but more morally ambiguous and frowned on less in some societies.
I don’t imagine there are more of either in rabbinic society than elsewhere. However, it is the ability of some groups, as American writes above, to divert the laws of the land, whatever they are, that is principally at issue here and it is not a phenomenon restricted to sexual activities. It is quite natural for an individual to seek to wriggle out of punishment but when you find a group within society defying the law to protect him then that is a whole other matter and in a sense more dangerous than the contained offences themselves.
Not directly related to this story, except that this is also about N.Y. Jews and sex: today’s NY Post has a story, plus photos and online video, about a woman who is filing an EEOC complaint against the Orthodox Jewish owners of a Fifth Avenue lingerie outlet because, according to her, they canned her for being “just too hot” for their showroom.