A security camera image of the suspected bomber in the Burgas airport attack. (Image: Haaretz)
Bulgarian Foreign Minister Nikolay Mladenov has told Benjamin Netanyahu to slow down before using the terrorist attack in Burgas as an excuse for war with Iran or Hezbollah. So far all that is known about the suspected bomber (pictured above) is that he was traveling with a fake Michigan driver’s license. Haaretz reports:
However, speaking on Thursday, Bulgarian Foreign Minister Nikolay Mladenov said that he thought “it is wrong and a mistake to point fingers at this stage of the investigation at any country or organization.”
“We are only in the beginning of the investigation and it is wrong to jump to conclusions,” he added, saying that Bulgaria had “excellent cooperation with the Israeli security forces in matters pertaining to the investigation.”
Mladenov added that the countries “will investigate until we discover who is behind the attack. At this stage all we know about the identity of the culprit is his external appearance and a copy of a counterfeit Michigan driver’s license.”
Yesterday, Netanyahu issued a statement saying, “all signs point towards Iran.” News sources are reporting this morning that Iran denies any responsibility.
Haaretz commentator Amir Oren says Netanyahu wants to turn an Israeli intelligence failure into an excuse to attack Iran:
And yet Benjamin Netanyahu, for his own reasons, is trying to turn the failure into an accomplishment. Two hours after the attack, he was saying that “all signs lead to Iran.”
Naturally, this is a well-founded suspicion; but from a prime minister – as opposed to a commentator – one expects a little more proof. And until he has proof, Netanyahu is talking about a worldwide pattern “in recent months” and the 18th anniversary of attack on Jewish community in Buenos Aires (which did not justify, in his eyes, a heightened alert concerning terror attacks). The conclusion: “This is an Iranian terror attack.” The aspiration that follows: “Israel will react forcefully to Iranian terror.”
Even if Netanyahu’s wish comes true, and evidence to Iran’s responsibility is found, it would not justify moving beyond the shadow war of what appears to be mutual terror attacks and onto a big war, the one that according to Ehud Barak would only take the lives of 500 Israelis – all in all, Burgas times 70.
Meanwhile, look who the Syrian government is blaming for that suicide bombing in Damascus that killed the Syrian officials: Al-Assad wounded, wife in Russia: Report:
Saudi Arabia is neck-deep in this. It supports the overthrow of all dictators who belong to the wrong sect. But tell them that you want a change of regime over there and you’ll probably get beheaded. Muslim ethics will continue to go downhill until the Saudi monarchy is replaced with a democratic government that champions the rights of women and those on the margins of society. Once again tribalism defines politics.
” Muslim ethics will continue to go downhill until the Saudi monarchy is replaced with a democratic government that champions the rights of women and those on the margins of society. “
Would that be anything like the ‘secular democracy with a tilt towards Israel’?
Project! I’m so excited…
Not really, you appear to have misunderstood me. Like anti-Zionist Jews provide a critique of Israel, I am critiquing injustice in the name of Islam. My view, as articulated by Muhammad Abduh in the modern era, is that Islam is a good, egalitarian religion that cares for the oppressed, even ill-treated animals. Sheila McDonough’s book on Muslim ethics shows how states and authorities misappropriated the iconography of Islam to suit their agendas much like the Christian Right has done to Christianity. I don’t care about labels like “religious” and “secular” and disagree with how they are generally applied. To me “religious” is “moral”. In his book Principles of the State and Government in Islam, Muhammad Asad writes that the leader of a country must be chosen from the most righteous and educated persons. Muhammad prophesied that uneducated persons would one day rule over people. I think the idea of a country defined by a religious label is unhelpful and breeds inequality. It has nothing to do with “religion” if it has nothing to do with “morals” of compassion and fairness. The concern is “egalitarianism”, not “secularism”.
“is that Islam is a good, egalitarian religion that cares for the oppressed, even ill-treated animals.”
I’m touched. Thank you! That is so thoughtful. You oughta see the treatment I get around here, it’ll wring your whithers.
BTW, which animal do you consider to be the king, the best beast that beats all the bunch? When I found out my family name was Al-ces I felt closer to Islam, too.
Mooser, you can be the best beast LOL.
Adam, you may want to add on this post Israeli Defense Minister Barak’s admission that they have no idea who was behind it. He said the attack was “initiated by probably Hezbollah, Hamas, [Islamic] Jihad or any other group under the terror auspices of either Iran or other radical Muslim groups.” In other words, somebody was behind it. The clip was played on Democracy Now this morning and starts at about 2:15 of the broadcast. link to democracynow.org
The concrete proof will come in time. We must note that this happened on the 18th anniversary of the Argentinian terrorist attacks against Jewish civilians by the Islamic Republic. In addition, the Islamic Republic as of late has been trying to do this all over the world and such plots were unraveled. Such plots were foiled in Azerbaijan, Baku, Thailand, India, Cyprus, and more. And in all these other countries the local authorities tied them to the Islamic Republic. All the circumstantial evidence points this to a plot that simply was executed flawlessly and was not unraveled unlike the other plots. The concrete evidence will come in time, but all the signs point to an Islamic Republic plot.
Hasbara Central requires at least 6 mentions of “Islamic Republic” in one post. You only mentioned it 4 times.
The anniversary argument is, quite possibly, the weakest piece of alleged “evidence” I’ve seen for any claim. Ever.
“The anniversary argument is, quite possibly, the weakest piece of alleged “evidence” I’ve seen for any claim. Ever.”
It does check a lot of boxes.
1. Completely fails to provide an actual motive.
2. Relies on an explanation for an event that has been discredited.
3. Assumes that a party was the perpetrator when in fact there is no overwhelming reason to assume that party was the perpetrator.
I believe tomorrow’s the forty third anniversary of the Apollo Moon Landing. I guess you’d best watch for me jumping off my deck. Never mind that actually, I didn’t participate in the moon landing, that this wouldn’t give me a motive for jumping off my deck, and that actually, the deck isn’t finished. You can pretty much guess I’m going to do it.
lol now you are going to deny the Islamic Republic was behind the Argentinian terror attack? Is that why Interpol has arrest warrants out for regime thugs based on the case? Is that why Argentinian authorities have indicted the hooligans? Next you are going to say the regime wasn’t behind the Mykonos assassinations in Germany and the wave of assassinations of dissidents throughout the years. Give me a break…. stop being an apologist for this brutal terrorist regime.
Yes, seeing as the FBI also does.
Clinton was going to lift those warrants, knowing they were bogus, but was unable to do it for political reasons.
Assassinations, which are routine for Israel and the US, are a far cry from bombing civilians.
Fail. Tell your Hasbra and MEK mother ship that your Mossad buddies have to stop being caught on CCTV cameras.
Seems to me the terrorist regime label can also be given to the Jewish state. After all, it was the Jewish state that terrorized 3/4 of the Palestinian population in 1947/8, ethnically cleansed them and stole their lands. In the following years, they managed to attack their neighbours and steal more land and resources. In one memorable summer in 1982 they managed to kill approx 20,000 people in Lebanon, not to mention the subsequent killings in the next 18 year occupation. Yes, the Jewish state is a terrorist regime and you are being an apologist for them. Stop being an apologist for this brutal terrorist regime.
lol… I am either Shahi or MEK or Mossad. Which one?? You can’t chose all three like you have. Good one.. :)
More substantially, Israel is a terrorist regime in the worst possible sense.
She has no legitimacy at all for close to half the people she rules. She only exerts authority through raw terror.
“Next you are going to say the regime wasn’t behind the Mykonos assassinations in Germany and the wave of assassinations of dissidents throughout the years…”
Now there you are. The ‘Mykonos restaurant assassinations’ do fit Iran’s M.O.
” Iranian-Kurdish opposition leaders Sadegh Sharafkandi, Fattah Abdoli, Homayoun Ardalan and their translator Nouri Dehkordi were assassinated at the Mykonos Greek restaurant in Berlin, Germany on 17 September 1992…”
The Burgas bombing doesn’t; Zio-fantasies notwithstanding, while Iran does assassinate political opponents who have fled overseas and takes a healthy interest in promoting her position in Iraq and Afghanistan, she doesn’t engage in other forms of terrorism.
Since Israel has plenty of other enemies, since the apparent killer had links with those enemies but not with Iran or Hezbollah, and since on the one hand not one shred of evidence has been produced to show that Iran or Hezbollah carried out the operation but on the other hand Israel has both a track record of unhesitating duplicity and every reason in the world to finger Iran, I really see no reason at all to give any credence to Netanyahu’s claim.
There are several parties that seem more likely than Iran or Hezbollah.
1. Al Qaeda. Both the nature of the attack and the identity of the supposed bomber fit this to a tee.
2. Israel herself, working through proxies. This isn’t necessarily distinct from any of the other possibilities.
3. One of the more radical Palestinian groups.
4. Some radical Turkish group.
5. Some radical Zionist group.
Iran or Hezbollah come in somewhere after these. Why should I think different? Because of what Netanyahu said?
“Seems to me the terrorist regime label can also be given to the Jewish state.”
Israel is a Sparta that will kill anyone that gets in its way. And terror is part and parcel of the package. The fact that the killers are in uniform is irrelevant.
I’ll be there with a net or trampoline (which ever can be rented locally) as soon as I can catch a flight. Of course, I should have known and been there already.
How so? Anniversary dates are very important to these hooligans. It is symbolic for them.
If so, there are a helluva lot better anniversaries to honor than something that happened 18 years ago in Argentina. There isn’t a date on the calendar that isn’t the anniversary of something. When you are reduced to this kind of claim all you prove is you’ve got nothing whatsoever.
If I worked for Hasbara, I would at least wait till I had something plausible to hang my hat on before making a public fool of myself. What’s wrong with waiting for some evidence before demanding war? Isn’t that what responsible people do?
Anniversary dates are very important to these hooligans.
they are very popular to other people too, like israelis. check colin’s list:
the anniversary would work equally well if someone was planning a false flag. iow, in itself there’s no meat to it. also, would you mind providing some evidence “Anniversary dates are very important to”…. iranians..wrt assassinations or something terror related.
I don’t suppose you can provide any evidence to support that assertion? That is to say, that ‘these hooligans’ pay any more attention to anniversary dates than the rest of us do. Extra executions on Khomeini’s birthday? Whatever. I’m all ears.
That sassy new dude likes a good laugh doesn’t he? Drunk on ziocaine, blood and arrogance? Or maybe he’s just nervous around us.
Even his picture is, well, stolen.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s an ex idfer with a long list of operations against civilians to his (stolen) name.
Meh – who cares anyway!
Everything he says is anti-smart and anti-anti.
lol my picture is now stolen? What a paranoid bunch. Anyone who disagrees with your false ideology is automatically given a label. I love it. Quite a paranoid bunch indeed.
Ohhahahaha ohahaha yes dearly – I just knew you’d respond to your “stolen” foto comment oh-hahaha owheeheehee – so frigging predictable too that you make a reference to “paranoid”. Puzzling though that you didn’t use the word ‘antisemite’ with it eh.
It’s a kinda scary foto for Crest toothpaste commercial.
“What a paranoid bunch. Anyone who disagrees with your false ideology is automatically given a label. I love it. Quite a paranoid bunch indeed. ”
Oh dear talk about projecting. Cannot count the times I have been labelled a Muslim, or a Nazi, by the ones sent by a propaganda squad to infest comment sections on blogs made up of loathsome cretins who are always looking over their shoulders for assumed threats. “Israel” was put under a state of emergency after the attack in Bulgaria, not Bulgaria itself. Just one example of paranoia of a people so insecure of themselves being on land that belongs to another. Don’t even get me started about false ideologies ahem zionism ahem!
Sassan or whoever you are – your picture is priceless. Coupled with the laughable nonsense you keep spamming here and on other websites – it fits perfectly with your bizarre persona.
Regarding Sassan’s “bizarre persona” (yes, it is bizarre): perhaps Sassan has already mentioned this, but what is his nation of citizenship, religious background, ethnicity and political affiliations, if he would care to share? Where is he coming from on Mideast politics?
I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s an ex idfer with a long list of operations against civilians to his (stolen) name
It’s not stolen, but he’s a Shah fanboy with a serious man crish on US puppet dictators. He likes to cite an anti Iranian web site, which I can’t recall, which was set up a few months ago, so he’s probabyl a paid shill working for the MEK or their political wing.
Oh don’t worry, that’s comming.
Sassan cliasm to be an Iranian living in America, who loves Iran and his fellow Iranians so much that he is desperate for the US to go to war adn bomb the place back to the stone age and liberate his beloved Iranians.
Oh, and he’s really conerned for teh well being of Israel.
Oh c’mon, seany – you can accurately answer every question yourself now. But if it helps your out, he’s a zionist from zionistan worshiping the zionist golden calf and skunk-drunk on ziomoonshine.
He claims to be Iranian. He loves Israel and hates the Iran (in the context of the Islamic governance).
He would like to see a war with Iran and regime change and pushes all manner of b.s. here and elsewhere on the web with that unintentionally funny picture of himself as his call-sign
Sassan,
Actually, my impression is that Israel is fond of inserting clever symbolic messages into its terrorist operations. That particular anniversary date would be of much greater significance to Israel than to Hezbollah — which raises uncomfortable questions about yet another possible Israeli false flag op. Netanyahu immediately jumped on this incident to try to trigger a war against Iran, just as he and his neoconservative allies in American politics exploited 9/11 and the 9/11 anthrax attacks to help drive Americans into the Iraq War, the Global War on Terror and the Clash of Civilizations.
By the way: where are you coming from on Mideast politics? What are your cultural biases and personal interests in these matters?
Me: third-generation American citizen, Roman Catholic by upbringing, currently agnostic, Anglo-Irish by ethnicity and progressive libertarian in politics. How about you? What is your stake in this unholy mess?
I can think of at least a dozen pressing issues that are of much greater concern for Americans than Israel’s problems with its neighbors.
Let me be specific about some of the pressing issues that should be of greater concern for Americans than Israel’s endless (and largely self-created) problems with its neighbors:
1. addiction to alcohol
2. addiction to cocaine
3. addiction to heroin
4. addiction to pain killers
5. addiction to tobacco
6. air pollution
7. Alzheimer’s disease
8. autism
9. cancer
10. climate change and extreme weather
11. collapse of the US middle class
12. collapse of US infrastructure
13. collapse of US manufacturing base
14. coral reefs collapse
15. diabetes
16. drought
17. economic competition from China
18. economic competition from India
19. genetically modified foods
20. global warming
21. heart disease
22. Judeo-Christian fascism (Christian Zionism)
23. lack of exercise
24. North Korean nuclear threats
25. obesity
26. ocean acidification
27. ocean pollution
28. outsourcing of jobs
29. overpopulation
30. peak oil
31. poverty
32. radical wealth inequality
33. water resources
What say you, Sassan? What policy issues and social problems do you most care about and why?
Virtually all Iranians in Iran and of the diaspora oppose both sanctions and military action against Iran (even the Crown Prince!) except the MEK. So now all we have to do is add 2 and 2 to figure out who “Sassan” is. Also the fact that he even put up a picture of some Middle Eastern dude suggests that he is insecure and really really badly wants to prove his “Iranian identity.”
Well, let me ask Sassan outright: are you pro-MEK or anti-MEK?
“Regarding Sassan’s “bizarre persona” (yes, it is bizarre): perhaps Sassan has already mentioned this, but what is his nation of citizenship, religious background, ethnicity and political affiliations, if he would care to share? Where is he coming from on Mideast politics?”
I am Iranian-American, atheist (technically born Muslim but that doesn’t matter since the vast majority of Iranians are not religious), born in Iran, a moderate Democrat, but follow the school of Realpolitik and liberal interventionism. Basically, I don’t believe in party labels. I am to the left on most issues (i.e. health care, environment, death penalty) and to the right on some issues (like foreign policy and illegal immigration) and to the middle on the majority of issues. I believe party politics and ideology is like a virus. And unlike most of you, I am not anti-Israel. To look what a culture or society has contributed to society and humanity (particularly in the fields of science and medicine) I simply look at the Nobel Laureate list. Anyhow, that is me in a nut shell. Ask more if you like.
What Roya said was absolutely false. Most Iranians inside the diaspora support sanctions. The majority do not support military action at this time, but even that a strong minority do. Based on my experiences inside of Iran (I was in Iran for over 8-months just a year and a half ago) a substantial portion of Iranian society inside of Iran does. But that is another debate for another day.
As for MEK, I am completely opposed to them. For any individual to cite someone who they disagree with as some other political ideology simply because one does not agree with their preconceived notions, I find to be extremely disingenuous. The MEK were the same thugs who helped Khomeini’s henchman during and after the Revolution. Only when Khomeini was finished using them, did he turn on them. The MEK are communist Muslims. Saying this, they will be able to in a liberated Iran ONLY operate as another political party among all the other political parties. They virtually have zero support inside of Iran. When I was in Iran this last time, I did not meet a single Iranian that supported them.
And as for me and my Iran politics, I support a democratic and secular Iran. The reality is that Iran is the only country in the region that once liberated will truly become democratic and secular. This is why many Iranians inside of Iran say that Bush’s mistake was liberating the wrong country. We will have this conversation later but only to say that I support a democratic and secular Iran in a type of government to be determined at a later date. Iranians in the future will decide in a national referendum what type of secular government (i.e. Republican, limited constitutional monarchy). I personally think the days for even a limited constitutional monarchy even like the U.K. is over. But that is not the issue right now. We need to be united and let this campaigning and political haggling come at a future date when Iran is free. For now, we all need to be united in our opposition to this tyrannical and medieval regime.
:)
My picture comes from my Facebook picture. Nice try again Roya. I ask why you come to an anti-Israel site for you being Iranian? Most Iranians no longer have qualms with Israel. But you come to a site opposed to Israel and seem to support their dogma. And you question my intentions and loyalty? Good one. :)
http://www.IranResearch.org? Which was world class research done through a psychological questionnaire and world class researchers to determine the secular democracy proclivities of the Iranian people? Yes, I am MEK you found me out. Because I like to look at science and reason in helping me to determine the facts and ultimately my worldview. :rolleyes:
“By the way: where are you coming from on Mideast politics? What are your cultural biases and personal interests in these matters?”
I have to run for the day but I will respond last with this. Before even being Iranian, I consider myself pro-humanity. First and foremost I believe in human dignity and human freedom. As for Iran, I want to see my homeland free. I want to see Iran again a proud nation in which we can start to rebuild our homeland from the swamp and terror that is the Islamic Republic. We will most definitely get there in my lifetime.
Human dignity and personal dignity must not be undervalued. These occupying Mullahs are fanatics who rape our young sisters before executing them so that they don’t “die as virgins” as “virgins go straight to heaven”. Thus, they do a “sigheh” or forced marriage on these pour souls and rape them before executing them. Truly barbaric and despicable. And as someone who I truly admire and reflects a lot of my political views, I am a huge fan and admirer of the late and great Christopher Hitchens.
Good day for now. :)
Sassan,
Thanks for the direct and forthright response. I share quite a few of your views.
Do you think that Americans face much more pressing problems domestically and internationally than Israel’s endless and largely self-created problems with its neighbors?
Do you support the Israel-centric neconservative/neoliberal agenda that has dumped trillions of dollars down the drain in losing and self-destructive foreign wars that have been based on lies?
Did you support the Iraq War? A war against Iran? Likud’s plans to integrate the occupied territories into biblical Eretz Yisrael through brute force and the violation of international law?
My priority is with science and reason and being against totalitarianism and Islamic fascism. We didn’t bring the “clash of civilizations” upon us. 9/11 Islamic fascism declared war on us. Bottom line: the enemies of human civilization must be defeated. These Islamic radicals (who control the regime in Iran) are at their core Islamic Imperialists who want to bring an end to humanity. They will not settle for Israel. Remember, it was Khomeini who refused to end the Iran-Iraq war twice when he had the chance (once early on during the war in a ceasefire organized by the Saudis and later by the U.N. before the war reached its bloodiest apex) but Khomeini instead declared, “On to Karbala, Jerusalem, Saudi Arabia, and the west!”. This is a regime that believes at their core that they must “create the conditions” for the “return of the hidden imam” in a global war in which 2/3rd of humanity perishes. Before one starts comparing it to the Jewish or Christian messiah and all that… the difference is that this regime believes that they must “create the conditions and worldwide havoc” for this to take place! This regime poses grave threats to not only the Iranian people but to humanity at large. History has taught us to take the ideologies of evil madmen seriously. And in this case, ignoring these threats will be at the peril of mankind. This is not just mumbo jumbo, this is the ideology of these medieval fanatics!
@ sassan: Say was Palestine yours to give away? Hate is a strong word. Seeking justice is how I would describe my character. Ta
Sassan,
You wrote:
“And unlike most of you, I am not anti-Israel.”
Define “anti-Israel.”
Is it “anti-Israel” to oppose aggressive religious Zionism, the settlements, anti-democratic Likud policies, the abuse of Palestinians, Israeli-instigated foreign wars, AIPAC, neoconservatives, Sheldon Adelson, etc.?
Most Americans express strong disagreements with the American government all the time — I know I do. Are Americans free to express strong disagreements with the Israeli government? Or is Israel a sacred cow, a privileged entity that is not subject to the standards applied to the rest of humanity?
“Even his picture is, well, stolen.”
But he’s so good-looking, and look at those teeth! I wish mine were as nice.
Oh well, now that I know the truth, love has flown. Bye-bye, love! Bye-bye happiness! Hello, emptiness, I think I’m gonna plotz!
Is anecdotal evidence all you have to offer on this? “Most Iranians inside the diaspora” want their relatives to be starved to death by crippling sanctions as the people in Iraq were prior to their being “liberated” (again, you choose odd terminology)? “A substantial portion of Iranian society inside Iran” wants their country to be bombed back to the 2nd century? Most Americans oppose war with Iran and you are telling me that Iranians support it? As I said, not even Reza Pahlavi, who dreams of ascending to the Peacock Throne one day soon supports either sanctions or war. And this website iranresearch.org, which you claim conducts “world-class research” gives away its motives in the “Who We Are” section: We are a team of Iranians and Israelis who decided to take upon ourselves this enormous challenge… You got that? Israelis. You think Israelis have the best interests of the Iranian people at heart?
My opposition to Israel has nothing to do with my being Iranian. It has to do with my being human and opposing apartheid, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, militarization, occupation, and discrimination, all of which Israel embodies. And if you require that I tie a nationality to this sentiment, I would say that my American side is more opposed to the apartheid state of Israel than my Iranian side given U.S. government complicity in upholding Israeli apartheid and the fact that every time I buy a bottle of water or a pair of jeans the tax I pay enables Palestinian suffering. That being said, having read Walt and Mearsheimer’s The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy and learned of how the Israel Lobby has actively impeded improvements in diplomatic relations between Iran and the U.S., and the fact that every time I turn on the news I hear some Zionist neocon expressing his desire to annihilate my cousins, I have no reason to be fond of Israel as an Iranian either.
So he’s a Joe Liberman type.
So in otehr wiords, he despises Aisans, Latinos and Black African nations too becasue they have short Nobel Laureate lists.
Hassan has no evidence fo this, he’ll just tell youi that he knows all the Iranians in the diaspora personally and we are suposed to take him at his word that they all agree with him.
Teh minirity being his friends, the MEK.
Actually, they dodn;t say that at all, but Hassan will run with it regardless, because he;ll have you believe that there are dozens fo towns in Iraq desperate to become anotehr Fallujah.
Whether the IRanians like it or not.
While supporting others….
http://www.IranResearch.org? Which was world class research done through a psychological questionnaire and world class researchers to determine the secular democracy proclivities of the Iranian people?
World class psychological questionnaire huh?
From the front page:
Get this folks – the interdisciplinary centre Herzliya Lader school Government, which is is a private college in Herzliya, Israel. Isn’t that a surprise!! So a “private” sollege in Israel decided to conduct a psychological questionnaire developed by professor Shalon Schwatz for the Iranians.
So here is Hasan, who claism to knw what all Iranians think, citing a report by an Israeli group.
Sassan is an Israeli stooge folks
Which uis why Hasan suppots the bombing of Muslim countries. He’s a big fan of the Iraq “liberation” you see, becasue he knows all the Iraqis in the diaspora who wre in favor of shock and awe.
He considers Iran his homelabnd but has never lived there.
His regard for human dignity and personal dignity is why he has such a huge man crush on the Shah, who he insists was a well meaning man who was just misunderstood. Never mind that Amnesty INternational described Iran as the worst human rights violator in the world under the Shah – he still insists he cares about human dignity and personal dignity. Apparently he sees no contracduiction between torture and murder and human dignity and personal dignity.
Just like the babies in the incubators in Kuwait or Saddam’s human shredder. It’s true folks, honest to God.
So Saddan is blaming Iran for 911 eventhoguh 1 million Iranians came out in protest against the attacks and the leadership condemend the attacks.
Gt that folks? The US started aw ar based on lies in Iraq, which claimed 1 million lives, but the enemies of human civilization are the Iranians. They are the ones who want to bring an end to humanity, in spite of the fct that they have not attacked or invaded anyone in 300 years.
Notice the double standards. Iraq atatcked, but it was Iran’s fault for not accepting a ceasefire on Saddam’s terms.
This BS is stragith from the neocone playbokok of the American Enterprise Instititure and the Weekly Standard. No Iranian leades has ever said anything of the kind, but that doesn’t stop Bill Kristol and hassan telling us about it.
Which is exactly wwhat Israel’s largest support base in the US believes. That the cfreation of a gretare Israel will hasten the rapture.
No sources or course, just hyperbole.
It’s pretty lcerar that the real madmen are the cult that Hassan belongs to.
Don;t fall for this guy Sean,
He’s a con man and a pathological liar and propagandist. The anti Islam and anti Rianin bile that he poster at Foreign Policy sounds like the kind fo crap David Horowitz would vent.
Hassan claims that hsi priority is with science and reason, yet in spite fo tall the sciene and evidence refuting that Iran is working on nukes, he insists otherwise.
Sassan,
1. Do you support or oppose Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders, Melanie Phillips, David Horowitz, Steven Emerson and Daniel Pipes on Muslim issues?
2. What do you think of Michele Bachmann’s attacks on Huma Abedin (an aide of Hillary Clinton) on the basis of her Muslim faith?
seanmcbride says: “Do you think that Americans face much more pressing problems domestically and internationally than Israel’s endless and largely self-created problems with its neighbors?”
Hateful ideology is an issue we must all stand against. I am not pro-Israel, I am simply not anti-Israel. The fact that many people on here claim about Israel is ridiculous. Israel was created through the League of Nations mandate and later ratified through the United Nations. While I support a two-state solution, it must come with a Palestinian side that does not have blood in their hands and continue to call for the destruction of the Israeli state.
“Do you support the Israel-centric neconservative/neoliberal agenda that has dumped trillions of dollars down the drain in losing and self-destructive foreign wars that have been based on lies?”
I think you overestimate Israel’s influence. In relations to foreign wars, I think you forget that it was other intelligent agencies including the Russians and Chinese that were warning us of Saddam’s chemical stockpiles. To claim that the Iraq war was based on a “lie” is not completely truthful.
“Did you support the Iraq War? A war against Iran? Likud’s plans to integrate the occupied territories into biblical Eretz Yisrael through brute force and the violation of international law?”
At the time, I did support the liberation of Iraq. In hindsight, I think Iran was a greater priority and that Bush’s biggest mistake was not liberating Iran before Iraq. With Iran, the populace would have supported it. Additionally and most importantly, you would not have had the post-war terror that we have seen in Iraq. The reason? Simply put that Islamic Arabs would not have been able to infiltrate into Iranian society to commit the post-war terror attacks for two reasons. 1) Ideological, 2) Islamic Arabs would not have been able to infiltrate into Iranian society. As for Iran, I hope that military intervention can be avoided but I am not so sure. Only time will tell but there is no doubt that this regime poses grave threats to not only the Iranian people or to Israel, but to civilization itself. One thing history has taught us is to take the ideology of evil madmen seriously. The last time we didn’t, a whole race of people were nearly wiped out.
As for the Israeli settlements etc, I do not support the illegal settlements. BUT, what you fail to realize or mention is that the majority of Israeli society doesn’t either. The fact is that an estimated 15-30% of Israelis are atheist Jews and that over 60% of Israelis consider themselves secular. Settlements need to go and are illegal but frankly, they will go when the Palestinians and Israelis negotiate in good faith for a two-state solution. The Palestinians need to bring honorable men like Mahmoud Abbas who actually want peace and not terrorists in Hamas whom have not only been responsible for suicide bombings, but continue to indoctrinate little Palestinian children to hate Jews and to glorify martyrdom. What most people don’t realize is that even though Israel is the “Jewish state”, it is mostly cultural and historical and not religious for most Israelis. In contrast, the Palestinians have a culture of martyrdom, hatred, and intolerance. In Israel, the rights of minorities are defended. An estimated 20% of Israelis are Arab Muslims. Homosexuals have rights in Israel and are not discriminated upon in the way they are in the Islamic world. In the Islamic world including the Palestinian territories they are executed. Additionally, atheists and free thinkers are encouraged! In the Islamic societies, they must either keep their rationality to themselves, are chased out of society, or are executed as “apostates”. In contrast, Israelis value their free thinking Jews as seen by the disproportionally high number of atheist Jewish scientists who top the Nobel Laureate list year in and year out. The Jewish culture has provided greatly for humanity. When is the last time in recent history we see an Islamic culture which has helped move humanity forward in the sciences and medical arenas?
No doubt Israel is not perfect, but they are also not the villains you make them to be. Israel is the only secular democracy in the entire region. People make lots of claims on here. For example, I support a two-state solution but the fact is that “Palestine” as a nation-state has never existed. Both sides have grievances and there must be a two-state solution but with real peace partners and not terrorists. In addition, it has been Israel who has been attacked over and over throughout the years including by all her neighbors. People on here are either knowingly disingenuous or simply have bought into the leftist propaganda movement in which Palestinians are complete victims and “never do any harm”.
Americans are free to disagree with Israel as they wish. This is why we live in a free country.
Mr. “genius” & “Roya”, did you even happen to read the study? Israelis tend to be the greatest researchers and scientists. Just because they were done by a research team from Israel, does not make them invalid. I suggest you read the study before spouting off your irrelevant rhetoric.
As for the study, people can access the entire research at http://www.iranresearch.org.
Here is a summary from: link to online.wsj.com
“Iranians Have Democratic Values
New research reveals that Iranian society has a pro-liberal value structure deeply at odds with the fundamentalist regime.
By YUVAL PORAT
In the high-stakes international discussions surrounding Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons, Iran’s 80 million people are often forgotten. So I, along with a small team of Israelis, decided to explore the driving forces of Iranian society. There have been signs, on the streets and over the Internet, of a battle raging between the country’s Islamic fundamentalists and the proponents of freedom. The question we set out to explore is where the majority of the people stand.
Soon we were joined by leading experts in the fields of social psychology, cross-cultural research, the Shiite Muslim religion, statistics, and dozens of Farsi-speaking volunteers.
Circumventing Iran’s “electronic curtain”—as President Obama described the Iranian government’s efforts to control contact with the outside world—our research team conducted telephone interviews in late 2011 and earlier this year with nearly a thousand Iranians. The latter constituted an accurate representative sample of Iranian society, including all of Iran’s 31 provinces as well as a representative distribution of all ethnic groups, ages and levels of education. The interviews were conducted anonymously and the country the calls came from was concealed in order to ensure the safety of the respondents.
To overcome the challenge of measuring the potential for freedom and democracy in an autocratic country like Iran, we had to innovate. Typically, researchers use questionnaires that include questions such as “are you for or against democracy?” Or “have you ever signed a petition?” However, citizens in authoritarian countries are often afraid to respond to such explicit questions, and if they do respond their answers are likely to be distorted by fear.
Therefore we used a psychological questionnaire that measures the basic values of society without posing a single question in political terms. The questions described the views of a figurative third person and then asked the Iranian interviewee to what extent that person was similar to them. The third person was described in sentences such as “It is important to him to make his own decisions about his life,” “thinking creatively is important to him,” and “it is important to him to be the one who tells others what to do.”
The questionnaire used in Iran was developed by cross-cultural psychology expert Shalom Schwartz as part of his “Theory of Basic Human Values,” which is widely used by psychology researchers. In cooperation with Prof. Schwartz, our team created an index which measures the potential of a society to foster democratization, based on its values.
We validated the index by representative samples from 64 countries, and 162,994 respondents, from the United States and Sweden to Indonesia and Ghana. This revealed a strong correlation between a society’s score on the index and its degree of democratization (based on the Freedom House measure of what constitutes a liberal democracy).
Conducting the interviews in Iran, we were amazed by how forthcoming the Iranian people were.
An analysis of the Iranian sample showed that alongside conservative values, such as conformity and tradition, Iranian society is characterized by strong support for pro-liberal values such as a belief in the importance of self-direction and benevolence. For example, 94% of the respondents identified with the sentence “freedom to choose what he does is important to him,” and 71% of the respondents identified with the sentence “being tolerant toward all kinds of people and groups is important to him.”
Once we had samples from Iran, we could analyze them with global samples using the new index. Iran was placed on a continuum measuring the tendency of societies world-wide to foster liberal democracy. Remarkably, in comparison to 47 countries surveyed in the World Values Survey, Iranian society’s potential for liberal democracy was found to be higher than that of 23 others—including Arab countries such as Egypt, Morocco and Jordan, and Asian countries such as South Korea, India and Thailand. In comparison to 29 countries surveyed In the European Social Survey, Iran was found to have higher tendencies toward liberal democracy than Russia, Ukraine, Slovakia and Romania.
We also discovered an abnormally large gap between the societal potential for liberal democracy in Iran and the actual level of democracy in the country. In most countries there is a high correlation between the two. When such a gap exists, there is a strong tendency for the country’s level of democracy to adjust in accordance with the society’s potential.
Our findings demonstrate that Iranian society as a whole is characterized by a pro-liberal value structure that is deeply at odds with the fundamentalist regime. This presents considerable potential for regime change in Iran and for the development of liberal democracy.
Mr. Porat is an Israeli political strategist. His full report can be found at http://www.iranresearch.org. “
Shingo, this is the last time I will reply to you since you seem to be very childish with your remarks. Simply put, none of them offer the slightest semblance of rationality.
As for you ignoring the evil ideology of the Islamic Republic regime, here are some quotes by the regime henchman. People can themselves judge the ideology of these fanatics. This is not “AEI propaganda”, this is the CORE ideology of these Twelver fanatics..:
“Ahmadenijad constantly states “marg bar Israel” which means “death to Israel”. Ahmadenijad in a speech on February 20th, 2008 stated, “In the Middle East, they [the global powers] have created a black and filthy microbe called the Zionist regime.”
More importantly, what comes out of the Supreme Animal’s Khamenei’s mouth? On December 15, 2000, he declared on Islamic Republic State TV: “Iran’s position, which was first expressed by the Imam [Khomeini] and stated several times by those responsible, is that the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region.”
During military parades, they have slogans draped “Israel must be wiped off the map” over the missiles in military parades. In addition, similar slogans and signs are present at every Friday prayer.
In an address to the “World without Zionism” conference in Tehran on October 26, 2005, Ahmadenijad said, “Va Imam-e-aziz-e-ma farmudand ke in rezhim-e- eshghalgar-e Qods bayad az safhe-ye ruzegar mahv shaved. In jomle besyar hakimane ast” which translates to “Our dear Imam [Khomeini] ordered that this Jerusalem-occupying regime [Israel] must be erased from the page of time. This was a very wise statement”.
In addition in the same speech he added: “Be-zudi in lake-ye nang ra az damane donya-ye Islam pak khahad kard, va in shodani’st” which translates to: “Soon this stain of disgrace will be cleaned from the garment of the world of Islam and this is attainable”.
Further examples include a speech on April 14, 2006 which he stated, “Derakht-e khoshkide va puside’i ast ke ba yek tufan dar ham khahad shekat” which translates to: “A dried, rotten tree that will collapse with a single storm”. Furthermore during a military parade on April 17, 2008 referring to the U.S. and Israel he stated: “Mantage-va jehan amade-ye tahavolat-e bozorg va pak shodan az doshmanan-e ahrimani’st” which translates to: “The region and the world are prepared for great changes and for being cleansed of Satanic enemies”. Again, on May 14, 2008 in a city called Gorgan he stated: “Israel’s days are numbered” and that “the people’s of the region would not miss the narrowest opportunity to annihilate this false regime” and he continued, “Thanks to god, your wish will soon be realized, and this germ of corruption will be wiped off the face of the world”.
THIS IDEOLOGY IS AT THE CORE OF THIS REGIME SINCE KHOMEINI as Khomeini always declared he would destroy Israel as the “reconquering” of Jerusalem is necessary for the “return of the hidden imam”.
To go back to the Supreme Animal Khamenei, he stated on January 15, 2001 at a meeting with organizers of the International Conference for Support of the Intifada, “The foundation of the Islamic regime is opposition to Israel and the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region” and in fact the original translation by Islamic Republic journalists were “It is the mission of the Islamic Republic of Iran to erase Israel from the map of the region”.
One of Khamenei’s top Ayatollah’s, Ayatollah Shariatmadari stated on October 4, 2007: “Death to America and Death to Israel are not only words written on paper but rather a symbolic approach that reflects the desire of all the Muslim nations”.
Ayatollah Janati: “The blind enemies should see that the wish of these people is the death of America and Israel”.
General Safavi (Revolutionary Guards): “With god’s help the time has come for the Zionist regime’s death sentence” (February 2008). and in Hamadan on February 23, 2008 he stated: “Death of this unclean regime [Israel] will arrive soon following the revolt of the Muslims”.
The thug Mohammad-Ali Ramin: on June 9, 2006: “Among the Jews there have always been those who killed god’s prophets and who opposed justice and righteousness. Historically, there are many accusations against the Jews. For example, it was said that they were the source for such deadly diseases as the plague and typhus. This is because the Jews are very filthy people. For a time people also said that they poisoned water wells belonging to Christians and thus killed them”.
Ayatollah Nuri Hamadani in April 2005, “One should fight the Jews and vanquish them so that the conditions for the advent of the Hidden Imam will be met” and he continued, “at present the Jews’ policies threaten us. One should explain in the clearest terms the danger the Jews pose to the [Iranian] people and to the Muslims. Already from the beginning the Jews wanted to hoard the world’s goods in their greed and voracity. They always worked in important professions and now they have hoarded all of the wealth in one place. And all of the world, especially America and Europe, are their slaves”.
General Mohammad-Ali Jafari in February 2008 in a message to Hassan Nasrallah: “In the near future, we will witness the destruction of the cancerous microbe Israel by the strong and capable hands of the nation of Hizbollah”.
Former foreign minister Mottaki on February 18, 2008: “The west has tried to impose a fabricated regime on the Middle East, but after sixty years, the Zionist regime [Israel] has neither gained any legitimacy nor played any role in this region”.
Majles speaker Adel in February 2008 stated, “The countdown has begun for the destruction of the Zionist regime”.
What the hell else do you want to prove this regime is a threat?? How about a documentary produced by the regime in which Khamenei, Hassan Nasrallah, and Ahmadenijad are portrayed as key members of the Hadith whom will usher in the return of the “Hidden Imam” in which conquering Jerusalem is a prerequisite and the end-goal is to spread Islam to “all corners of the Earth” in a worldwide chaos in which 2/3rd of humanity will “perish through death, havoc,and famine? And they believe that the Middle East freedom movements are all a part of an “Islamic Awakening” for this end…: link to youtu.be “
Yes, Hassan is a huge fan of all of the above.
He’d be bbf with Humpty Dumpty if dear old Humpty was islamophobic.
And by the way, sassy’s been hired (as cheap labor) by hasbara central.
“Most Iranians no longer have qualms with Israel.”
Dude, you’re soooooo deluded. Even my shahist iranian friends in los angeles want to throttle israel!
P.S. Can a real moslem help me out here: is there such a thing as a self-hating moslem?
Say Hassan, you against christian and jewish fascists too or just buggered up good by islam?
Do you even like Arab christians – you know, the ones who like their moslem countryfolk?
Thenkeep your ISlamophobic nose out of their bunsiness.
There have been signs, on the streets and over the Internet, of a battle raging between the country’s Islamic fundamentalists and the proponents of freedom.
You know there is noting scientific about a paper when it presents such 2 dimensional arguments as this. The proponents of freedom are not ever mentioned, because in reality, the opposition party still holds many of teh same values as the ruling party. The imge they are tryign to give us is that there are a bunch of progressives who want to turn Iran into a mirror image of the US.
What’s particularly funny about this is that Sassan disapraiaged another study that was conducted in the same way. His argument was that this methodology cold not be trusted becasue the Iranian government listens in on everyone’s phone conversations and that the Iranian public are aware of this, so they don’t give an honest answer.
In other words, when the stufy produces an outcome he agrees with, the methodology is sound. When it doesn’t, the methodology is unreliable.
In other words, the study posed questions that were deliberately vague and allowd the researchers to read what they wanted into the responses, even if they were not literal.
So Sassan has taken this result to try and argue that Iranians want to be invaded and have an Iraq type do over – even though any true expert on Iran will tell you that any kind of Western internvention or interference would play into the hands of hard liners.
We are all human beings, Homo sapiens. I am not against Arabs as a people. I am not even against Muslims as a people. I completely support the plight of the Syrian people. My grandparents even still pray (although are not fanatic and completely against the regime). My qualms is not with not only Islamic fascism but totalitarians and fascists of all stripes. But Islamic fascism poses the gravest threat to civilization. But even the Arab spring in which some Islamicists are popping out such as in a limited fashion in Egypt must not be shunned upon. We must simply ensure that a system is put in place of regular elections. At the end of the day, the concept of human freedom and human dignity will beat out totalitarianism and authoritarianism.
I am not Muslim. And that is simply not true. We and the Jews share over 2500-years of history since the time of Cyrus the Great. We are historical friends and allies. The fact is that most Iranians ask themselves, why is it that the Islamic Republic supports militants and extremist groups instead of supporting the Iranian people? Answer? The lives of Iranians and the welfare of Iran means nothing to this fanatical regime. Go talk to Iranians of all stripes (apparently your Shahist friends don’t like Israel) so in L.A. walk into a local Starbucks and start a random conversation with Iranians in the diaspora) and you will realize that the issue of Israel is a non-issue for Iranians. If the regime says something is bad, the opposite must be true. What the regime shares as an ideology and what the Iranian populace share are completely antagonistic with one another. Israel and Iran will once again share a natural friendship together once this illegitimate and terrorist regime of the Islamic Republic is overthrown.
Apparently I am not allowed to answer such questions based on the censorship guidelines on this site. I responded to you with your questions but was not allowed to answer. Quickly (if this is posted) Michele Bachmann is a loon. Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller are conspiracy loons as well. David Horowitz is an intellectual who one must read to be intellectually honest (although not always agree with). And Mr. Wilders should be applauded for standing against the failed policies of multiculturalism. And the others I am not sure about. Anyhow, I will further post on here as the censors seem to delete half my comments in which I have not used ad hominem attacks against any individuals; but rather simply because of my points of view. Good day.
Shingo, this is the last time I will reply to you since you seem to be very childish with your remarks.
Don’t flatetr youerself Sassan. I could care less if you replie to me or not. I am just going to be wathcing you and exposing you for what you are – an extremist right winger, a proagandist and an liar.
Yeah we kow all about the insults Ahmadenijad and his gang have directed at Israel.
Booohooo. Are you suggesting hurting ISrael’s feelings is reason to go to war? Yeah, you probably are, because that’s the kind of sociopath you revealed yourself to be on other blogs.
I keep hearing this claim from right wing neocons, but no one has ever presented any evidence to support it. They can’t even cite a credible report that makes this claim, otehr than other right wing blogs.
But gettin back to what I asked you, where is the statement by Iran’s leaders of the 12 Imama and how they believe they have to create teh circumstances to usher in his return? Like the crap you guys spread about every Friday prayer, you never seem to be able to come up with a statement by Iran’s leadership to support this.
No, all you;ve produced is every insult that Iran has directed at Israel, and suggested that this proves Iran is a threat to humanity. And you wonder why you’re regarded as a Zionist stooge?
Khomeini has NEVER declared he would destroy Israel or that “reconquering” of Jerusalem is necessary for the “return of the hidden imam”.
Oh not that crap again. I alreayd debunked this BS for teh joke it was. You were unable to explain why it is that the State of Iran, with all it’s resources could produce it’s own footage, bur had to use footage from other news sources?
This is a piece of BS that was produced out fo some neocon’s basement, probbably with you sitting alonside him.
This hillarious video BTW, was produced by the phaton knows as Reza Kahlili, who claims to have been a CIA agent embedded in the Iran Revolutionary Guard. He won’t show his face, he won’t reveal his true indentity.
He’s no doubt another MEK marketing gimmick, who you cites as the source for all your anti Iranian BS.
You’re an absolute joke.
Defo Shingo, (s)he/it was roused on another site. Damn wish i could remember where. Same photo even and I remember it linking me to a blog it had – yeah with that photo again. Also, “most of” was another dead giveaway. they seem to think they have a mandate to speak for most of us , including Jews.
You are against Islam, and osessively so, therefore you are against Muslims as a people.
Whnich peopel are you referrign to? The Shia? teh Allawites? The Chrisitians? Or are you refering to the suciide bombers who call themselves teh FSA?
No it isn’t. You’re one fo teh Shah’s biggest fans, who was a totalitarians dictator.
How so? Islamic fascism has not come close to threatening civilization. It has not threatened the US, South America, Europe or Asia.
Iagree, but sadly, Washington is dong that. Washington has fought hard to suppor the counter revolution, so that their sock puppet tyrants remain in power. They contine to send billion so teh military junta in Egypt. They are backing th Saudis and Bahrain in their supppression of the protests in those countries.
Really? Why not let the people of those countries worry about that? Does’t that make you a fascist for deciding what’s best for them?
You;re all for fascism and dicattorships, you just don’t like some of them.
That’s funny, bcause as I recall, you were fawning all over that Pamela Geller wannabe, who was a big supporter of Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller. You described her as a strong woman with wonderful values.
Horowitz is a sick pathological liar, but we get that you’re a fan.
So you are a facuist after all, and a racist who despises other cultures. That much is obvious.
“Anyhow, I will further post on here as the censors seem to delete half my comment”.
Is all that spam only half your comments (that are “allowed” through)? Fredblogs whines of the same and speaks of “most Americans” the way you spoke of “most Iranians”. Who are you returning back as fred-saSSan? A Tibetan? Or how about a disgruntled Pakistani Muslim?
Yeah sure, which makes it souble sad that Netenyahu is so obsessed with attacking Iran.
If it’s a fact, then you shoudl be able to provide evidence, but you won’t because you can’t.
Yeah, that’s the place to go and talk to Iraniams, in a Starbucks in Santa Monica. I’ve been to Iran, and I have spoken to real Iranians, not you Shah and MEK Fanboys. It is true they have no problem with Israel (other than it’s brutal and illegal occupation of Palestine). Speaking of Palestine, I seem to recall you’re a big fan of greater Israel (ie. Eretz Yisrael).
Vut Iranians in Iran want no outside interference in their affairs. The only group that wants the US to intervene is the MEK.
For the FINAL TIME and I am done with you, the video was LEAKED by Mr. Kahlili, not “produced”. The regime even admitted that people inside of Ahmadinejad’s camp produced it. They simply said it was “unauthorized”. And as for the quotes, go read back all the quotes instead of briefly skimming through it to see the very “hidden imam quotes” you are saying there is none of. This is the CORE ideology of these fanatics and it is not even something they themselves refute. :yawn:
Sassan,
You wrote:
“But Islamic fascism poses the gravest threat to civilization.”
This is the same crazy Nazi-style rant that is being promoted by hate extremists like Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Geert Wilders and Michele Bachmann. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Judeo-Christian fascists, Christian Zionists and Christian Armageddonists like John Hagee represent a much greater threat to Americans, certainly, than any variety of Muslims. They are much more powerful than Muslims in American politics, they have control of WMDs, and their overwrought fantasies about imminent Armageddon can easily match and exceed the lunacy of any Muslim fanatic.
From the *American* standpoint, your priorities are a mess. I wonder if you really understand American culture at all. You seem to be thoroughly mired down in Iranian politics and feuds that have very little to do with the most pressing issues that are facing Americans, most of whom who absolutely no connection to Mideast politics. Please stop trying to drag your foreign and ancestral holy wars into American politics. You are being a bad American.
Sassan,
You wrote:
“At the time, I did support the liberation of Iraq.”
Many American foreign policy experts regard the Iraq War to be worst foreign policy disaster in American history. It has cost several TRILLION dollars and counting, failed to achieve any of its announced objectives, and severely damaged American strategic interests in the region.
I strongly opposed the Iraq War and accurately predicted its disastrous outcome long before it occurred based on a rational analysis of all the factors in play. And I never believed that Iraq possessed WMDs.
Since you and your neoconservative confederates (like Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, William Kristol, Michael Ledeen, etc.) bear responsibility for a foreign policy disaster of this magnitude, shouldn’t you all retire from the punditry business? Stop offering foreign policy advice from a feeling of guilt and shame?
Why in the world would anyone listen to you based on your abysmal track record? If you drove Microsoft into the ground financially on the basis of harebrained policy decisions, would ever land another big job in the software industry?
No.
Face up to your failures regarding the Iraq War and engage in some serious introspection about their causes. Your political judgment is severely faulty. You can’t rely on it. Something is messed up in your mental wiring. You will keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
Islam poses the greatest threat to civilisation. How can you deny it? Don’t you remember WW2? Which countries were the aggressors? Which countries forced their entire states into a total war economy? Which states incorporated every scientific advance into weapons technology immediately? And finally, when the greatest advances ever were made in physics and physical sciences, which countries immediately turned those advances toward the most terrible weapons ever seen?
I mean, wow, if that doesn’t spell M-u-s-l-i-m to you, you must be blind!
Hassan,
First, you can’t even pay me enough money to walk into that abhorrent corpo zionist cafe called starbucks!
Second, I have had Iranian friends from all walks of life and religions since 1975 – starting in London, stringing to Paris, Barcelona, New York, Porto Rico, Los Angeles and Oakland. And I can assure you that if asked by random strangers how they feel about Apartheid israel, they usually stay shtump and passive. But in private, they are extremely distressed by the zionist state’s warmongering against Iran, even though they ALL are against the domestic policies of the current regime. This is what separates you from them, the real patriotic Iranians. You Hassan would rather Iran was obliterated in the hope of regime change, which is not even guaranteed, and by the way is also immoral and illegal under international law. While they, my Iranian friends, prefer a more “civilized” approach – you know, like LESS BLOODY! My Iranian friends do NOT appreciate Apartheid israel’s murderous hostility towards their country and some of them are mad as hell ’bout it – and rightly so. I have two Iranian jewish friends and both of them feel the worst of the lot cuz they’re agonized and torn between their love for their country and their love for judaism. Both refuse to take sides and are constantly advocating for a peaceful resolve.
Frankly, you are the furthest from any Iranian I know and the closest to a ziocon propagandist – a paid one that is. I really don’t feel like pointing out your numerous contradictions and hasbaric dishonesties cuz it’s a beautiful breezy summer afternoon and I’d just be wasting my poetic time on your tedious, inconsequential BS.
But mark my words: there are people who are much, much smarter than you – and not morally hindered by the black-hearted islamaphobia you’re all too gleeful to flaunt.
Truth is, YOU TOO – arrogant, misguided people like you – are the REAL threat to human civilization. You are NO different to the islamist you so virulently denounce.
If it were up to me, I’d consign you both to a life on a small island, somewhere far far far from planet earth.
The world is still a better place without Saddam Hussein. I simply stated that liberating Iran should have been a strategic priority. The world is still a better place without Saddam Hussein. I believe getting rid of Saddam, led directly to the freedom movements in the Middle East. People no longer saw their leaders as untouchables. Particularly in that of Ghaddafi as Ghaddafi gave up his nuclear program because of Saddam’s demise. And the Libyan people then consequently rose and were successful in their revolution. And now in their first ever election, they elected a secular liberal government.
Like all heartless psycho fanatics, sassan forgets to account for the millions who died, got injured, maimed and refugeed just so his zioconness can make the ego-maniacal and ridiculously inflated claim that “The world is a better place without Saddam Hussein”.
Well I got news for you sonny boy: with or without Saddam, it’s still a frigging bad world!
As if evil is concentrated solely in the form of a single man!
Let us not forget here folks that the Arab Spring was ignited by the Tunisian Mohamad Bouazizi. A man who had not a single thought of Saddam Hussein when he set himself on fire, but of his diabolical Tunisian dictator who served the interests of his imperial American masters and not his own people. The beloved Mohamad Bouazizi is a man sassan will never be able to understand or feel for. And how could he? They don’t share a single principle or virtue. I reckon sassan is even jealous of Bouazizi’s fame – oh yeah I recognize a bombast polemicist when I see one.
Because warmongering greedy arrogant people still exist, the world is STILL full of evil.
It looks like nobody here believes you as it is, but you’ve pissed me off so much with your lies that I’m going to take the time to debunk your claims, Sassan, so that not even a smidgen of the thought that you may possibly represent the Iranian or Iranian-American community crosses anyone’s mind. To start off, this Sassan character is full of contradictions. He is a “moderate Democrat”, but oh no, he doesn’t “believe in party labels.” He believes “party politics and ideology is like a virus” but he happily subscribes to the ideologies of Zionism and liberal interventionism (which in practice doesn’t differ much from neoconservativsm). He considers himself “pro-humanity” and puts “human dignity and human freedom” above all, but relinquishes his priorities when considering Palestinians. He decides whether or not ethnic cleansing and terrorism is acceptable from a society based on that society’s Nobel Laureate list (“I am not anti-Israel. To look what a culture or society has contributed to society and humanity (particularly in the fields of science and medicine) I simply look at the Nobel Laureate list”). While a majority of diaspora Americans including me don’t support the Iranian government’s domestic policies, they favor diplomatic relations between the U.S. and Iran over Sassan’s desire of Iran being bombed back to the Achaemenid Empire; according to a 2007 study of Iranian Americans residing in California, the state most densely populated with Iranian Americans:
He also claims that “Most Iranians no longer have qualms with Israel.” Based on the California study,
Furthermore, a 2010 International Peace Institute survey of actual Iranians in the actual Iran rather than the fictional Iran that Sassan visited for 8 months a year and a half ago years ago showed that an overwhelming majority (68%) continued to support Iran’s relationship with and support for Hamas and Hezbollah.
Nima Shirazi, journalist, frequent contributor to Mondoweiss, and another Iranian who happens to defy Sassan’s claim that “most Iranians” love Israel, took the time to debunk “iranresearch.org” at his blog. Highlights of his article:
But if you ask Sassan, this was “world class research done through a psychological questionnaire and world class researchers to determine the secular democracy proclivities of the Iranian people.” He also insists that he likes “to look at science and reason in helping me to determine the facts and ultimately my worldview. :rolleyes:”
Seanmcbride asked Sassan what he thought of the MEK. His response, “As for MEK, I am completely opposed to them.” A typical Iranian’s response would be, “As for MEK, they are a group of traitorous crazy freak killers.” MEK gained their claim to fame when they turned on Iran during the most bloody period of the country’s recent history. During the brutal war that took the lives of a combined one million Iranian and Iraqi civilians, the MEK set up base in Iraq and helped Saddam kill the Iranian people. Iranians don’t like traitors. They don’t like murderers either. From Wikipedia:
But if you ask Sassan, the MEK are victims (“Only when Khomeini was finished using them, did he turn on them.” [Gasp]) And for reasons known only to Sassan, he supports the MEK as a potentially legitimate political party in a free and democratic Iran. (“Saying this, they will be able to in a liberated Iran ONLY operate as another political party among all the other political parties”). To be clear, I’m not accusing Sassan of being MEK. I’m just pointing out that he has very odd and questionable priorities. And as Trita Parsi correctly noted, “The MEK has the dubious honor of being the only entity more disliked by the Iranian people than the Iranian regime itself.”
By the way, Sassan, have you heard of Armin N. Rosen? You should reach out to him, you two would get along great!
Like I said, ther was no Kahlili and the video was clearly done by some hack with no access to the footage that the Iranian government would have had.
Yeah, you said that before as well and when I asked you to produce evidence of that admission, you refused.
There are no “hidden imam quotes” and npo statement about hastenign the return of th 12 Imam. You hasbrats alwasy play this game. When you can’t provide quote to support your claims, you insist you laready have or that the meaning is hidden.
The only fanattic is you.
If you want to argue that, tehn you also have to aergue that the world is better off without the million Iraqis who died asa result of the invation of Iraq – one based on lies no less. But it is interesting to note that on one hand, you supported the invasion and attack on Iraq (based on lies) while condemning the Iraninans for not accepting Saddam’s ceasefire.
The US were not interested in any ceasefire with him, and they ended up killing more people. Just abnother ecxample fo your biggotry, racist and fanaticism.
You believe wrong. The freddom movements in the ME began with Tunisia.
Another BS neocon talking point. Firs of all, there was no nuclear program to speak of, onlyh remenants of an abandoned attempt and secondly, Ghaddafi had been making this offer since the Clnton years, but had been repeatedly rebuffed. It was only when the Iraq war was turning out to be a disaster that the Bush gang seized on the offer and spun it as an example of one success from an otherwise failedc campaign.
No it was johadist mecernaries and most fo the deamage being inflicted by NATO.
Great ersponse Roya,
You absolurly decimate this lying shrills case from A to Z. If he has any self respect, he’ll either be gone or admit he’s wrong. But as we know with neocons, being wrong is but a minor glitch and can be safely dismissed as irrelevant.
Sassan’s arguments mirror those of Porat. He favours create destruction of Iran in order to give birth to the pro western, liberal Pheonix that will surely arise from the ashes.
Thanks for mentioning Shirazi’s demolition of Porat’s pathetic piece.
You’ll have noticed that Sassan didn’t even address or deny my point that he’s a devoted fan of the Shah.
@ Roya – nicely debunked! I buy your thesis.
According to Fars news agency, Ayatollah Nuri-Hamadani stated in a discussion of religious texts: “One should fight the Jews and vanquish them so that the conditions for the advent of the Hidden Imam may be met.” He added: “Crazy ideas such as secularism, liberalism, and humanism are part of our enemies’ plans to sow disunity”.
So Shingo, I don’t plan on responding to you because you are so childish, but again simply read back through all the quotes and you will find that same quote though. This is the ideology oh these Twelvers at their core.
As for the “hidden imam” video, read this article: link to guardian.co.uk
“But the feud has taken a metaphysical turn following the release of an Iranian documentary alleging the imminent return of the Hidden Imam Mahdi – the revered saviour of Shia Islam, whose reappearance is anticipated by believers in a manner comparable to that with which Christian fundamentalists anticipate the second coming of Jesus.
Conservative clerics, who say that the Mahdi’s return cannot be predicted, have accused a “deviant current” within the president’s inner circle, including Mashaei, of being responsible for the film.”
Therefore, it was produced by the regime and once it was leaked, they tried to back track it because the world was finding out about their ideology. Their concept of “keeping things to themselves” was being unraveled when the whole world was being exposed to their ideology.
And I will finally say, we should be proud of the fact that Libya in their first ever elections elected a secular pro-west liberal government. We should be proud that the concept of liberalism and human dignity is moving forward. And this would NOT have happened without the liberation of Iraq. And also Shingo, at least don’t make up false numbers. While any death is a travesty, the total number of deaths in Iraq is 100k and not 1-million. This is what the U.N. says as well as the Iraqi Health Ministry. And the vast majority of those deaths were not from the hands of our missiles or weapons but from terrorists, suicide bombings, etc. Check out the statistics http://www.iraqbodycount.org .
The world is most definitely a better place without Saddam Hussein. Only history can judge the legacy of President Bush, and I think it will be a very favorable one indeed.
And the Shah was a great leader we can be proud of. He was NOT perfect, but for his time and place we can at least appreciate the fact that he was an Iranian who loved his country. Now Iran is run by a bunch of megalomaniacs who care NOTHING for Iran. I don’t believe in the restoration of the monarchy, but in the context of history, the Shah was not a ruthless dictator in comparison to today. He had the best interests of Iran, the future of Iran, and the lives of Iranian in mind in doing what he did. His mistake was that he was not forceful enough against the Mullahs early on in his tenure. For example, he should have taken care of Khomeini early on. Sending him to exile was a mistake.
Yes, the man who resided over what Manesty Intentaional described as the worst human rightss violator in the world at the time is someone Sassan is proud of. The man who was never elected, but was installed by a CIA backed coup and who put tens of thousands of Iraniasn to death is someone Sassan is proud of. The man who gave away Iran’s assets to foreign intersts and lived an ibscenely exceessive existence at the expense of Iranians is someone Saddan is proud of.
These, according to Sassan, are all consistent with his liberaa and pro democratic values. These actions, according to Sassan, demonstrates how much the Shah loved Iran. Evidencelty, giving away the countrys resources to foreign intersts is in the best intersts of the country.
Hassan is pretty much a Bill Krystol wannabe.
And Roya, I happened to save my response to you expecting that my message might not go through (since half of my posts are for whatever reason not approved). If you’d like to read my response to you point-by-point, I would suggest emailing me offline from here. You tell me how I could mail you and I will oblige. Or I can give you an alternative email address of mine and you could email me there. Otherwise, my posts simply do NOT go through if they have criticism of the Palestinians on there.
I will try one last time to see if my post that I posted last time will be approved..:
“And on the onset, when you use someone who is a nobody like Nima Shirazi, you lose credibility. This is an individual who kisses up to Mohammad Marandi, an Islamic Republic operative who actively works for the regime.
As for “no one believing me”. That is obviously going to happen on a site like this in which everyone is anti-Israel and automatically anyone who disagrees with your cliche is “Hasbara” or “Mossad” or “MEK”.
And yes, I don’t believe in party labels and voting with a party just because you align yourself more with that specific party. I just happen to still be a registered Democrat and align with the Dems more on specific domestic issues but I also have some proclivities that lean me to the right on certain important issues.
And if you read what I wrote, I support a two-state solution but not with terrorists in Hamas. I am also against illegal settlements but those will take care of itself with negotiations when the Palestinians really want peace and not terror. You cannot expect Israel to negotiate with a side that wants to kill them through an indoctrinated ideology of hatred and martyrdom.
I have always said this but the Palestinians won’t have peace until they start to love their children more than they hate the Jews. This is the reality of the situation. Stop teaching hatred from the cradle. Until you do that, you won’t have peace and love.
As for that poll of Iranian-Americans, I would love for you to post the actual link for the survey and study so I could read the actual methodologies and details of the study. The one question and answer you noted depends heavily on how the question was asked and in which context. So I cannot comment further until I read the details.
And the same with the Israel-Iran question you posted of Iranian-Americans. The “natural allies” question was put in the context of the Islamic Republic. It didn’t put it in the context of a free Iran. It also didn’t put it which side it put the blame on due to the hostilities of Israel and Iran (based on the information you provided). And yes, our policies do favor Israel over Palestine as it should. Israel is the only secular democracy in the region and is a friend of the United States. It serves our national security interests and our cultural interests of a free society.
Now here is where I have qualms with you are going. NO SURVEY, let me repeat: NO SURVEY or poll taken inside of Iran has any scientific validity or reliability due to the fear factor involved. This is why Mr. Porat’s research was so important as it used a psychological questionnaire that directly avoided this “fear factor”. Iran is a totalitarian and fascist society. Iranians are thrown in prisons, raped, tortured, and executed for simply holding certain political or religious views. So when someone calls them and asks them direct questions on such sensitive political matters such as “if you support Hamas/Hizbollah”, it will naturally be skewed because of the fear factor of having their telephones monitored etc. that such a survey/study automatically becomes scientifically invalid and unreliable. Any individual who has studied the most basic levels of science understands this. And one who is a student of psychology, one can to an even greater extent appreciate this phenomenon. So while I want to read more on the Iranian-American survey you inferred and mentioned, any survey/poll done inside of Iran directly asking sensitive political questions is automatically hogwash and unrepresentative.
And to close, you bring Trita Parsi, an individual shunned upon in the Iranian-American community. Really, I know you are obsessed with the Israel issue but maybe you should start caring about the interests of a free Iran.”
This is truly hillarious. Sassan has cur this stright from the necon web site MEMRI. MEMRI claims that this quote comes from the Fars news agency, but are unable to link to the report and no Google Search shows this quote from Fars.
The MEMRI paper then claims this was reported by 2 other web sites who’s links don’t work. How pathetic is that?
The Sassan says he provided the quote and demands I go back and re-reasd that, but no sich quote exists – let alone a link.
This takes the cake. So according to Sassan, proof that the video was made by the Iranian government is the fact that Khamenei ordered the arrest of those that were accused of producing the video. That along with the statement that the video is apostasy to Iran’s religious decrees proves it was a cover up.
His argument is that the rejection of the vide proves it was made by the regime.
I think the reason Sassan’s eyes are so droopy is becasue he spends far too much time smloking weed.
lol
No one agreed with you over at the Foreign Policy blog eitehr Hassan, except for that right wing Islamophobic Pam Glellar wannabe.
The rebels in Syria and Lybia were terrorists and you support them don’t you?
Right from the mouth of Golda Meir. Does anyone dispute thsi guy is a Likudnik plant?
I think it;’s pretty obvious that Sassan is the love chiold od Forrest Gump and Caroline Glick.
You mean the Shah loving Iranian-American community who enjoyed privelage under a murderous and corrupt dictatroship.
You don;t czre about the interests of a free Iran. You want to see an Iranian puppet subordinate itself to America/Israel.
You shoudl really quit while you can Sassan. You’ve already cponcemend yourself as a rabbid, derranged neocon.
Azizam, you love Israel, hate Iran, adore the late Shah, and sympathize with the MEK. Why should I trust you with my email? I would love to continue this discussion somewhere else but I’m not giving you my email.
Nonsense. Many hasbarists reign free on this site.
Thank you Shingo. You’ve done quite a bit of debunking yourself. And as far as the Shah thing I think we can find our answer here:
It’s quite funny he says this, because what led to the revolution was a universal desire to overthrow the Shah among various opposition groups regardless of their different political and ideological beliefs.
Thank you CloakAndDagger and there will be Sassan Debunked 2.0 if he keeps going at it.
He obviously broe therules fo teh forum and engaged in Nakba denial.
Mossadeg h not only had Iran’s best interests at heart, but he was also popularly elected, unlike the Shah, who was put on the throse by the US and Britain. But Hassan loves the Shah but has no reagrd for Mossadegh.
A typical Liberal Zionist and a seriously anti intellectual one at that.
“Azizam, you love Israel, hate Iran, adore the late Shah, and sympathize with the MEK. Why should I trust you with my email? I would love to continue this discussion somewhere else but I’m not giving you my email.”
I support a democratic Israel against terrorists who glorify martyrdom and jihad, LOVE IRAN, despise the Islamic Republic, and have great respect for the late Shah (despite how imperfect he might have been). I sympathize in NO WAY with the MEK. As I have said, they are the same people who helped Khomeini with the revolution and the oppression of opposition groups. Only when Khomeini was done with them, did he start to purge them. I simply don’t see them as the enemy when we have one enemy all of us Iranians need to unite against, and that’s the Islamic Republic of Terror.
And you don’t need to give me your email address. My last post was fortunately posted. I have a facebook, if you want my facebook account, just email me at this alternative email address, “wisemanw51@gmail.com” from an anonymous email addy and I will give you my facebook. It doesn’t really matter though.
You should learn how to use spell check and learn how to write proper grammar.
And MEMRI offers a great service and should be applauded. Their translations have time and time again been 100% accurate and spot on. The truth hurts, doesn’t it? All they do is provide translation services for the rest of the world to know the truth about evil ideologies.
Do you support terrorism, mass murder and ethnic clensing that was impemene to create Israel?
So you love tyrants who live like KIngs at teh expemse of their contiuents. What about Mossadegh?
So you DO support the MEK, even though every Iranians despises them.
MEMRI is a dissinfomamtion and propaganda service.
Their translations have been exposed as flawed repeatedly ansd have their lies
MEMRI’s Doctored Mickey Mouse-Hamas Story and How It Suckered the MSM
link to richardsilverstein.com
MEMRI Nazis
link to normanfinkelstein.com
And then those traslations are debunked such as the famous BS about wiping Israel off the map.
MEMRI’s fanatical Islamophobic propaganda reminds one a great deal of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda from the 1930s and 1940s– same themes, same rhetorical methods, etc. There is not a dime’s worth of difference among Julius Streicher, Joseph Goebbels, Pamela Geller and MEMRI.
Sassan why did you open a sockpuppet on Mondoweiss? This is also you, no? link to mondoweiss.net
So let me guess—mommy and daddy were really rich and powerful under the Shah. Then the Shah left and mommy and daddy were rich and powerful no more. So you enroll at Hasbara Central and do whatever you can to help overthrow the government because Mr. Pahlavi promised mommy a nice social circle and daddy the title of nokhost vazir when he comes back to power. Am I right or am I right?
seanmcbride: All they do is provide translation services to reveal the truth about evil ideologies.
And Roya, one more thing. I had a different moniker but because people on here were so paranoid that my userid was “wiseman”, it was assumed my last name was “wiseman” and that I was a “Jewish Zionist” when my username really referred to “Wise Man”. So I decided to make this moniker of my first name. Simple as that. :)
Again please, tell me more about my family and I. I enjoy the story telling. :)
Sassan,
You wrote about MEMRI:
“All they do is provide translation services to reveal the truth about evil ideologies.”
MEMRI is a Nazi-like operation specializing in hate propaganda, exactly like Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, Caroline Glick, David Horowitz, Melanie Phillips and Geert Wilders. If these methods were being used against Jews — and it would be very easy to do that, culling selective quotes from publications like the Jewish Press — the howls of outrage coming from the Jewish establishment would be deafening.
Your hasbara skills are so weak and laughable that I can’t work up any motivation to get into an argument with you.
If anyone here thinks that someone who is still defending the Iraq War and praising George W. Bush requires any kind of refutation, good luck with that. As far as I am concerned, Sassan has already inflicted more damage on himself than anyone else possibly could.
We need to coin a new term: Iran Firster. Sassan is much more preoccupied with Iranian issues than he is with the best interests of Americans. Sassan doesn’t feel anything like an American.
Sean, Sassan is not an “Iran Firster.” He advocates broad sanctions and war with Iran which is not exactly in the best interest of Iranians. He is just some monarchist who probably just wants to revive the glory days his family enjoyed under the Shah. He is a “Sassan Firster.”
“You should learn how to use spell check and learn how to write proper grammar.”
Unless you are referring to the physical act of writing out the characters for ‘proper grammar,’ the correct usage would be ‘use proper grammar.’
…Since you brought it up.
“…And Mr. Wilders should be applauded for standing against the failed policies of multiculturalism…
It’s ridiculous of him to do so. Wilders’ mother was Indonesian and his father’s Dutch. He’s a product of multiculturalism.
No multiculturalism, no Geert. He could at least be grateful.
To sean “…Your hasbara skills are so weak and laughable that I can’t work up any motivation to get into an argument with you…”
There’s your problem. No sense of humor. Sassan is great. I’m hoping he sticks around long enough for us to put together a ‘greatest hits’ compilation.
Even funnier is that Sassan, who claims to be an Iranian living in Califorinia, is denegrating multiculturalism. These hasbrats have no sense of introspection do they?
He won’t have to stick around long to compile one of those. He tends to be a one trick pony. He’s pretty much used up his repetoire here already.
Sassan ain’t even iranian. Don’t believe a word this paid hasbarado claims.
What are you talking about? It was entirely based on lies. The fact that you can’t even bring yourself to elaborate as to what it not “completely truthful” only proves it.
What are you talking about? Bush had to lie to the American public to support the attack in Iraq. Most of the public beleved that Iraq was inked to 911 becasue of those very lies. He would have had to lie about Iran to win that support, seeing as the public was focused on going after the perpetrators of 911.
Absolute rubbish. There are attacks comming from Balochistan, which spans both Iran and Pakistan. Jundulla have had no problem carrying out such attacks in Iran.
Why would military intervention even be considered? Iran is not making nukes and has not attacked or invaded anyone in 300 years. They pose no threat to anyone.
One thing we know about you is you know nothign about history or intelligence assessments. Both the US and Israeli ontelligence community have stated that the Iranian leaders are rational actors and not suicidal.
Who are you trying to kid? The Israeli government, who enjoy a healthy majority support the settlements, and polls show that most Israelis do in fact, support the settlements.
link to haaretz.com
BTW. Your glorious liberation of Iraq is going swimmingly. 145 were just killed in the recent spate of violence.
Shingo,
You’ve done a great job in effectively rebutting Sassan. I can’t rouse myself to debate him — he is too ridiculous on his face. But his false statements do indeed need to be countered.
Most neocons these days are too ashamed even to mention the Iraq War and their role in engineering it — they are at least that smart. Sassan continues to support the worst foreign policy disaster in American history and sing the praises of the hapless George W. Bush.
Sassan’s “arguments” consist of stock neocon propaganda phrases, strung together randomly, with no rational argument whatever. There are smarter chatbots out there in the year 2012 than Sassan. It would be easy to improve on his performance with a computer program.
The anniversary argument has been used before. link to mondoweiss.net
Sassan the Shah fanboy has come along to soil ths this forum. Ignore him people, the guy is a right wing nutcase. Now to his point.
After spending several months interviewing officials at the US Embassy in Buenos Aires familiar with the Argentine investigation, the head of the FBI team that assisted it and the most knowledgeable independent Argentine investigator of the case, I found that no real evidence has ever been found to implicate Iran in the bombing. Based on these interviews and the documentary record of the investigation, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that the case against Iran over the AMIA bombing has been driven from the beginning by US enmity toward Iran, not by a desire to find the real perpetrators.
link to thenation.com
Such plots were foiled in Azerbaijan, Baku, Thailand, India, Cyprus, and more.
BS. The stunts in India and Azerbaijan were clearly set ups intended to pin them on Iran. They were not carrised out by anyone who had a clue what they were doing. Probably Sassan’s buddies from teh MEK posing as Iranians.
I’ve heard a few other Iranians making remarks like Sassan. They are either Iranian communists in the UK, or nationalists who lust for the Zoroastrian past of Iran. When Sassan talks about Cyrus the Great etc. as opposed to the Islamic Republic, I get the feeling he is some sort of an ultra-nationalist. He is free to express what the likes, but should think about cutting down on disinformation, emotive jargon, and romanticising a past that never existed. Reminds me of the white Australia policy and the readings I’ve done on contemporary Hindu fundamentalism and its paragons who talk about a past that never existed in the first place and how they feel so wounded by history. Naipaul, the literary Hindu fundamentalist, wrote a book castigating Islam particularly even as he lives in the West. He shed no tears for the Indigenous peoples discriminated against by his fellow fundamentalists. Ever wonder how all (of whatever religion/country) posters on the other end of our argument/s subscribe to some form of tribalism…
Hindus can go completely wild with the Islamophobia. I’ve read posts from them all but openly assuring all and sundry that Muslims are some kind of inhuman vermin that should all be exterminated as soon as possible.
…They can make a drunken truck driver with a KKK membership card in his pocket sound tolerant and humanitarian.
The Israeli government severely and permanently damaged its credibility years ago by repeatedly making untrue statements on a wide range of issues and topics that were easily proven false. The first rule of effective propaganda is to stick close to the truth and don’t get caught in too many misstatements and lies. Why do the Israelis do what they do? Why do they seem to go out their way to undermine their own credibility?
The unseemly haste with which Netanyahu tried to exploit this event to move forward the Israeli campaign to go to war against Iran raises all kinds of legitimate suspicions about who might have been behind attack. Who was first out of the block to exploit the attack? Who benefited?
The smart rule of thumb in all incidents of this kind is to be patient, collect all the evidence and then try to draw rational conclusions about what’s what based on solid facts.
Remember the 9/11 anthrax attacks? They turned out to be a false flag op and inside job. Despite calls by even the New York Times and Wall Street Journal to conduct a new investigation into the 9/11 anthrax attacks, the powers that be continue to obstruct any meaningful inquiry into what really happened. Why the stonewalling and fears about investigating the issue?
Sean, glad you brought up the Anthrax attack. A FFO, if there ever was one. No wonder it was so effectively hushed up. Thing is, everyone knows who ever looked into that sordid story. This one does not even require much of a conspiracy theory to stitch together – the government itself – in its attempt to pin it on Ivins has done part of the work for us. The only remaining questions have to do with where the Anthrax really came from and why the blame pinning kind of went off the rails.
So yes, governments will absolutely sacrifice a few of their citizens to get a much desired war going. Did Israel do in its own citizens? who knows? we do know it’s a ruthless country that resorts to murdering scientists and anyone else they don’t like or just gets caught in their designs.
We’ll know in good time….
Danaa,
You wrote:
“The only remaining questions have to do with where the Anthrax really came from and why the blame pinning kind of went off the rails.”
“blame pinning kind of went off the rails” is an understatement — the official story on the attacks is a ludicrous mess — that is why the entire story is being systematically censored (with a few exceptions) by the mainstream media. Don’t talk about it. Don’t go there. Forget it ever happened.
We do know for a near certainty that the anthrax came from an American military research lab.
I am withholding any judgment about the Bulgaria attack until I see many more facts. The information I’ve garnered so far simply by using Google News in “Sorted by date” mode has provided me with much better intelligence than anything Netanyahu and Lieberman apparently have access to.
More on how to crudely and prematurely exploit a propaganda opportunity before the bodies are cold to achieve a longstanding political objective:
BEGIN QUOTE
He [Netanyahu] said it was time for the world to accept that “Iran is behind the wave of terror” and was the most “dangerous country in the world.”
“A terror state cannot have a nuclear weapon,” he said. “The most dangerous country in the world cannot have the most dangerous weapons on earth.”
END QUOTE
link to huffingtonpost.com
On a common-sense and gut level, it is difficult for me to imagine that the Iranian government would hand Israel an opportunity on a silver platter for its long-desired war against Iran. But I am still not jumping to conclusions without more evidence and facts.
There are two things we know about the anthrax. As sean mentions the strain came out of Fort Dietrick. Second is that the preparation that Ivins had, though it was the same strain, was not the preparation used in the attacks.
At the time of Ivins suicide I read about the strains, preparations and equipment that would be required to prepare gram quantities of anthrax. I know this field having worked in it for 30 years. It was only just barely possible that Ivins had the equipment to make gram quantities of anthrax but it would have been near impossible for him to do it without someone seeing what he was doing. The simplest explanation is that a near industrial scale lab made the preparation used in the attacks. Never heard a word on any investigation in that direction. The original case against Hatfield was also absurd on this account since he did not have access to any large scale preparation facility.
“The first rule of effective propaganda is to stick close to the truth and don’t get caught in too many misstatements and lies. Why do the Israelis do what they do? Why do they seem to go out their way to undermine their own credibility?”
It’s a good question. Here are some thoughts.
1. Israel lies all the time because every element in her paradigm of reality is a lie. She can no more refrain from lying than a scientist can refrain from thinking in terms of hypothesis and experimental verification.
2. (closely related) Israel has to lie continuously. To admit any element of the truth would lead to the collapse of the whole house of cards.
3. Israel really is incredibly arrogant. They assume a vast and insuperable superiority over everyone else in every respect (this really is a compulsion, and repeatedly trips them up, as in 1973 and in 2002).
They are much smarter than anyone else. They can easily fool us with their incredibly clever deceptions. Witness the succession of rather ham-fisted Mossad operations, with great big bloody footprints leading straight back to Tel Aviv. I tend to assume that leaving a clear trail is part of the message, but maybe they really do think they’ll fool everyone.
A couple years ago I had a conversation with a librarian about Wilhelm Marr. The librarian is Jewish; a very nice person, helpful and intelligent, and we’re good friends.
I said to him that Marr did not invent the word or concept “anti-semitism;” it had been used at least as early as the 15th century, to apply to both Moors and Jews in Andalusia.
He did not say anything in words, but I wish I could verbalize his body language; his eyes and face contorted and he moved his head and shoulders in a way that seemed to suggest to me that he had no ‘receptors’ to take in the information; the concepts were totally beyond anything he had the neural capacity to process.
I think some Israelis — like Netanyahu– really really believe they are the sharpest knives in the drawer, and they really believe they are behaving morally when they kill people. They have conditioned away — snipped off — the neural transmitters through which one would process information to the contrary.
“They have conditioned away — snipped off — the neural transmitters through which one would process information to the contrary.”
You need to talk to Klaus. He is also working on the effect of circumcision on brain development and Jewish-identity formation. Evidence that loss of the receptors in the prepuce effects moral and/or neural development would be very interesting to him! He’s over at the Jewish Identity thread, but it takes forever to get in there (500 comments or so)
Anyway, all I can say is that Thank G-d circumcision affects moral and neural development, with out effecting sex function.
Was Albert Einstein circumcised?
Was Albert Einstein circumcised?
I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke. I will not make the obvious joke.
Speaking of Albert Einstein, looks like the Jewish genius wasn’t a fan of Zionism—letter to NYT on December 4, 1948:
“I will not make the obvious joke”
Did somebody say “obvious joke”? Well here I am, drum roll, please!
Q: Was Albert Einstein circumcised?
A: It’s all relative.
Thanks folks, and don’t forget to tip your server.
Oh, and I heard another one, a little more risque but I think it will get past The Moderators:
Q: What did Albert Einstein say when he was circumcised?
A: Eeeeee! My MC has been squared!!
Tell it all you want, but I would appreciate proper attribution. Try not to break up yourself before the end of the joke. It delivers better that way.
Because that’s what they have been doing for decades. Israelis know that American (and generally Western) mainstream media is on their side and that their armchair journalists will reliably and consistently construct pro-Israeli stories based on information that that the lobby gives them. Throughout the latter half of the 20th century virtually all Americans regarded Israel as the crown jewel of the Middle East, a place of flourishing democracy and perfection. Then the Internet came along and ended establishment monopoly on information networks and the more open-minded Americans chose to wake up and accept the reality, but the majority of people still flock to Fox , CNN, and Jon Stewart for their news so they don’t even realize they’re being lied to. Just walk down a random street and ask people what they think of Israel–they’ll mutter a little something about the Middle East being complicated and then proudly declare that Israel is a thriving democracy that the U.S. should wholeheartedly support.
The bodies are still warm and Netanyahu is already using it as a brick to use to bash Iran with.
link to ynetnews.com
Can’t he at least let people mourn for a few days before he uses their dead bodies for his own political gain?
Even if Iran is indeed behind this, people should be allowed to bury their dead and mourn with their families. Bibi almost seems happy for this opportunity to bash Iran. Sickening.
The suicide bomber was Mehdi Ghezali, a Swedish citizen who spent time at Gitmo. When he was released, in 2004, the Swedes flew him home in a government plane.
link to timesofisrael.com
There’s more on him here
link to weeklystandard.com
The Swedes deny this…
link to theatlanticwire.com
If he was imprisoned at Gitmo, the CIA have his fingerprints.
I have a hard time believing investigators actually lifted any usable prints from the bomb scene.
In addition to fingerprints, the CIA would certainly have taken a DNA sample.
That would all depend on what the exact script is. If usable prints were going to be needed, I imagine they’ll turn out to exist.
And DNA.
What will be interesting to see is if the Israelis will allow the Bulgarians to carry out this investigation without interfering. They’ve sent over teams of diplomats and rescuers etc.
It’s hard to imagine they’ll come back without some “evidence” for Bibbi.
Then get ready for a hard time, they have his fingerprints and DNA.
link to news.nationalpost.com
Not hard given that they also have his fingers.
Hey, but they found his driving licence that miraculously survived the inferno. Like a certain passport I could mention………. “I mean, who writes this stuff?”
From The Times of Israel:
‘Bulgarian officials deny bomber is Mehdi Ghezali’
link to timesofisrael.com
“America’s ABC News on Thursday reported that Bulgarian officials denied Bulgarian news reports that the Burgas bomber was identified as Mehdi Ghezali. The Atlantic Wire also reported Swedish officials making identical claims.”
You see: this is why one waits for all the facts to trickle in before making any judgements.
It would be nice to have a link to those “Bulgarian media” stories.
A look at Mehdi Ghazali’s Wikipedia page shows a pattern of association with various Sunni groups, including al Qaeda.
There’s no history of contacts with Shia groups at all, and in particular, no contacts with either Hezbollah or Iran.
Even if this was an authentic terrorist attack, I doubt very much if it had anything at all to do with Iran or Hezbollah.
That’s point one. Point two is more speculative. Given that Ghazali was recently released from Guantanamo, I submit that it is entirely possible that the Mossad has been tracking him ever since. They could have been watching when he got on that bus.
Look: if I was fighting terror, that’s what I would do. Ghazali was probably still visibly devoted to the cause. If I turned him loose, I’d follow him and see where he went. Hell, it would be one of the few good uses I can think of for all those dollars we devote to ‘fighting terror.’
Now, I probably wouldn’t let him get on the frigging bus– but then, I’m not Mossad.
“Now, I probably wouldn’t let him get on the frigging bus– but then, I’m not Mossad.”
Of course not! You would run up to him, and grasp him with a grip of steel, and be blown to flinders saving the lives of those on the bus. But that’s just the logical extension of the passion for justice and nobility of character you display in all your comments.
Pretty stupid remark, Mooser.
Personally, I can’t figure out why Israeli security, which claims that it had warnings of a terrorist attack on Israeli tourists, possibly involving tour buses, would let ANY non-Israeli on the tour bus, especially one with such an obviously fake ID and a BIG backpack, which was apparently cheerfully stored in the bus luggage storage area. Anyone care to explain the gross laxity involved?
Peter Beinart fingers Iran for the Bulgarian attack
Look at how quickly, without a shred of concrete evidence, Peter Beinart, a “liberal Zionist,” took his lead from Likudnik Benjamin Netanyahu in fingering Iran for the Bulgarian attack:
BEGIN QUOTE
There are explanations for why Iran (the most likely suspect), perhaps in conjunction with Hezbollah (a plausible suspect as well), yesterday murdered seven Israeli tourists and wounded 33 more in Bulgaria. Iran may be retaliating for Israel’s assassination of its scientists. Hezbollah may still be seeking revenge for Israel’s assassination of master-terrorist Imad Mugniyah, the man reportedly responsible for Hezbollah’s 1994 attack on a Buenos Aires Jewish Community Center….
In this case, the only way to understand such horrors is to understand the character of the Iranian regime, a regime willing to torture, murder and rape its young in order to keep itself in power. What Tehran did yesterday in Bulgaria was export its fundamental disregard for the dignity and sanctity of human life.
END QUOTE
link to thedailybeast.com
Incredible: “What Tehran did yesterday in Bulgaria” — with no qualifications whatever in that sentence.
In many ways, Peter Beinart is still the same neocon who goaded Americans into a disastrous war against Iraq on the basis of lies and false information.
Beinart’s readers don’t appear to be too happy with his relapse into mindless neoconservative hysteria — check out the comments. Best insight so far: Netanyahu is “looking for his Gulf of Tonkin moment.”
By the way, we know now that the Gulf of Tonkin was essentially a false flag op designed to serve as a pretext to justify the Vietnam War.
The 9/11 anthrax attacks, another false flag op, were a key justification for the Iraq War — the mainstream media at the time exploited them to the hilt.
And now Israel has been desperate for the last four years or so — and especially now — to goad the United States to attack Iran.
One is reminded of Netanyahu’s remarks on 9/11, as reported in Haaretz:
BEGIN QUOTE
The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.
We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,” Ma’ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events “swung American public opinion in our favor.”
END QUOTE
link to haaretz.com
Yes, thoughtful observers discern a pattern here.
Beinart is one of the Never Learns.
Go ahead attack Iran..and we will be writing 10 years out the same about Iran we are now saying 10 years after Iraq:
“In the run-up to the war in Iraq, neoconservative hawks in and out of the Bush administration promised that the U.S. invasion would quickly transform that country into a strong ally, a model Arab democracy and a major oil producer that would lower world prices, even while paying for its own reconstruction.
“A new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example of freedom for other nations in the region,” President George W. Bush told a crowd at the American Enterprise Institute in 2003, a few weeks before he launched the attack.
Ten bloody and grueling years later, Iraq is finally emerging from its ruins and establishing itself as a geopolitical player in the Middle East — but not the way the neocons envisioned.”
Froomkin
———————————–
My correspondent writes that the final “denouement” will come when Iraq declares that Israel has no right to exist. pat lang
“
This Scientific American article is old — 1968 — but packed with fascinating information about Iran’s qanat system of “making the desert bloom” — providing water for irrigation and consumption to a country that is half-mountain, half-desert link to users.bart.nl
It’s an underground water system that channels mountain runoff to and along 170,000 miles of streams deep under the desert floor.
The author writes that “the system provides 75 percent of the water used in Iran.”
Dennis Ross and his henchmen Mort Zuckerman, Michael Makovsky, Elliot Abrams, Nicholas Burns and Steve Ruderman were delighted that the US Congress agreed to provide bunker busters to Israel, so that Israel could mount a “credible threat” to Iran.
Think about what a bunker buster would do to Iran’s water system.
Factor in that same bunker buster releasing nuclear radiation.
Toss in the fact that much of Iran lies on an earthquake-prone geological platform.
Then explain to me why Ross & his merry band, AIPAC, Hillary Clinton, the US Congress are not in bullet-proof cages at the Hague facing charges of inciting to commit genocide.
The sheep’s clothing he now dons, is a cheap guise.
He’s another agent that’s flipped, but always tied
to the cause. Why did he come to this crossroads
at 40 years of age. It should have been in his 20′s.
But after cheerleading for a failed war he had to
manage to stay in the lime light somehow….
“Look at how quickly, without a shred of concrete evidence, Peter Beinart, a ‘liberal Zionist,’ took his lead from Likudnik Benjamin Netanyahu in fingering Iran for the Bulgarian attack”
Is anyone surprised? Bienart said that if he was forced to choose between his supposed liberal “principles” or israel, that he would abandon his supposed principles. The man’s a con artist selling snake oil.
Beinart’s stance is incredible.
“Beinart’s stance is incredible.”
And his back-swing and follow-through a thing of beauty. Whack! over 250 yrds, straight as a die down the fairway. Say, did I ever tell you guys about the Golfing Gorilla?
We need to get you a spin off site. Have you signed any product endorsement agreements yet?
“We need to get you a spin off site. Have you signed any product endorsement agreements yet?”
Colin, if you want me off the site, you know who to talk to. See the “Contact” (or rather “CONTACT”) tab at the top of the page, (next to “ABOUT”) and be sure to tell Phil you represent the Jewish Community.
But I’ll confess. Colin, you bring an exquisite, deadpan absurdity to the comment threads which I just can’t resist. Promise me that whither ever I goest, you will cometh too, and I can be your straight man, just like here.
Beinart and Ben Ami have to work both sides of the fence, remember. That’s the tragedy of liberal Zionism.
A possibility.
The guy is wearing a wig, dark glasses and a cap pulled down to mask part of his face. A bomb in rucksack, placed in luggage compartment with timer / mobile remote trigger. Man keeps small bag with him. At a rest stop, he gets out , goes into the restroom, takes out long pants and long sleeve shirt from bag, puts wig, hat and glasses in bag and walks away. Sometime later – boom!
Something is a bit wrong in your scenario. I think it was a chartered bus, so it is not obvious how to simply place a bag in the luggage. If that was possible, then why board the bus rather than switch on a timer, say for 5 or 15 minutes?
We need more forensic details.
To the extent that the US media sees one of its functions is to be an echo chamber of the government of Israel, we should not be surprised at the following,
“Americans’ confidence in television news is at a new low by 1 percentage point, with 21 percent of adults expressing a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in it,” the Gallup report begins.”
link to counterpunch.org
“The guy is wearing a wig, dark glasses and a cap pulled down to mask part of his face.”
See! There you go! He was dressed in accord with Muslim strictures concerning modesty! Put that together with the anniversary of a bombing carried out by someone else in the first place and we’ve got a smoking gun, with the trail leading right back to Teheran.
“Hezbollah on bus bombing: We wouldn’t target tourists for revenge”
link to news.yahoo.com
BEGIN QUOTE
Some speculate that the Bulgaria bus bombing that killed five Israelis was revenge for the death of a Hezbollah commander, but Hezbollah said it does not consider tourists an equivalent target.
The Israeli government has wasted little time in blaming Iran and its Lebanese ally, militant Shiite Hezbollah, for yesterday’s bus bomb blast that killed eight people, including five Israelis, in Bulgaria.
“For over a year, Iran, along with its protégé Hezbollah, has been waging an international terror campaign,” said Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, in a televised statement today. He called Iran “the world’s No. 1 exporter of terror” and Hezbollah its “long arm.”
But the attack by a suspected suicide bomber bore little resemblance to past bomb spectaculars pinned on Hezbollah that left hundreds dead and in 2002 earned the organization the tag “the A-team of terrorists” from a Bush administration official.
END QUOTE
A believable denial? Maybe. I would make a small bet at this point that the denial is true.
Most of the pro-Israel and neoconservative publications I’ve scanned today have embraced Netanyahu’s claims about responsibility for the attack in full force and without any questions. They may regret doing that.
You lose the bet. He was Hezbollah.
“A senior American official confirmed Israel’s assertions on Thursday that the suicide bomber who killed five Israelis in an attack here on Wednesday was a member of a Hezbollah cell operating in Bulgaria.”
link to nytimes.com
Not yet I don’t. Read your own damned link.
“…He also declined to describe what specific intelligence — intercepted communications, analysis of the bomber’s body parts and other details — that led analysts to conclude that the suicide bomber belonged to Hezbollah… “
It’s merely an unsupported assertion at this point. What I do know — and what is supported — is that the guy went through his whole life without any ties to Iran, Hezbollah, or Shi’ism. He was also a recent releasee from Guantanamo, and I’ll make another bet:
We or the Mossad were tracking him. The guy was picked up in 2009 in Pakistan, up to something or other. He was a mug.
Of course I read it. It says they aren’t saying how they know, not that they don’t know.
Fredblogs,
More background on that New York Times report, based on anonymous official sources:
BEGIN QUOTE
“The attack does bear some of the hallmarks of Hezbollah but we’re not in a position to make any final determination on who was responsible,” press secretary George Little told reporters.
“The Bulgarians are investigating,” he said.
…
“We are working to assess the facts and, with our partners, to discover who was responsible,” White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters aboard Air Force One en route to Florida. But Carney said he could not confirm if Hezbollah was behind the attack.
END QUOTE
link to dawn.com
Do you really think this is nailed down?
NYT report:
” The bomber was carrying a fake Michigan driver’s license, but there are no indications that he had any connections to the United States, the American official said, adding that there were no details yet about the bomber — his name, age or nationality. He also declined to describe what specific intelligence — intercepted communications, analysis of the bomber’s body parts and other details — that led analysts to conclude that the suicide bomber belonged to Hezbollah”.
No details; declined to describe intelligence – in other words: “Take my word for it”.
Just a coincidence that it happens to serve Israel’s purposes, I guess.
Also, it’s interesting that this “official” didn’t take the opportunity to say that a DNA examination eliminated Ghezali as a suspect.
Thanks for the comic relief Fred.
From the report.
So they don’t know who he is, but know he’s Hezbollah. Hillarious.
Is this getting funnier by the minute or what?
So the official, who insists on remaining anonymous, has no details and provides no evidence knows it was Hezbollah.
Please feel free to continue maing a complete fool of yourself Fred.
Lots of ways to know the attack was Hezbollah, but not know who the attacker was. One intercepted phone call between known Hezbollah agents talking about the attack could tell them what group, but not who. Also, he provided no details, he didn’t say he didn’t have any details. Lots of times intelligence gathering lets you know more than you can safely reveal.
“Lots of times intelligence gathering lets you know more than you can safely reveal.”
ROTFLMSJAO! Okay, Freddy-boy, when you manage to gather any intelligence, you be sure to let us know.
“Lots of ways to know the attack was Hezbollah, but not know who the attacker was.”
Sure. But we’ve yet to be told a single one of the ways this is ‘known.’
Let us suppose I decide you carried out the bombing. Have I proven my case if I then go on to claim that ‘I’ve got evidence’?
Wouldn’t you prefer that somebody ascertain what that evidence is before they fire off the drone?
For at least the last eighty years, it’s been pretty much mandatory to concoct a bogus claim that ‘they attacked’ before launching a war of aggression oneself. Gleiwitz, the Tonkin Gulf incident…
Why should this be different? We (and our Israeli masters) have been openly threatening to attack Iran. Almost necessarily, some pretext for doing so will have to be created. So why on earth should anyone give credence to our unsupported allegations that Iran or Hezbollah carried out this attack?
That is what we would say. It’s meaningless.
Fredblogs,
Have you forgotten that the New York Times, using “senior officials” as sources, herded Americans into the multi-trillion dollar Iraq War on the basis of false stories and outright lies that were later exposed as such? The New York Times also tried to pin the blame for the 9/11 anthrax attacks on an innocent man, James Hatfield, who was later paid a handsome settlement by the FBI for the abuse he suffered.
The mainstream media over the last decade has told one immense lie after another — *proven* lies — to further the neoconservative agenda of endless American wars in the Mideast — largely on behalf of Israel and Likud political objectives. The once august New York Times has been a journalistic joke for quite some time now.
I didn’t believe any of these stories while they were being told, and challenged them at the time. I got it right.
Was Hezbollah behind this latest attack? Maybe. I’ll believe it when I see the convincing evidence. So where is your evidence? Can you cite a single solid fact to support this claim? Please do so in your reply.
One single fact? Attack on Israelis that the U.S. confirms is Hezbollah is more than enough proof for me. Of course, I’m not paranoid.
Fredblogs,
Do you have an IQ of about 100?
I pointed out to you that the New York Times, using “official sources,” has amassed an impressive track record over the last decade of issuing false information and outright lies on important issues and stories in order to promote a neoconservative and pro-Israel political agenda.
Why do you believe this latest claim, which is based on thin air and which produced not a single fact or piece of evidence to support it?
Did you also believe that Iraq had WMDs? That Steven Hatfill was behind the 9/11 anthrax attacks?
It’s possible that Hezbollah may have been behind this attack, but I haven’t yet seen a shred of proof to support the claim. Where is the proof?
Edit: James Hatfield > Steven Hatfill.
For the full story on how the government, in collusion with “reputable” media outlets like the New York Times, falsely tried to pin responsibility for the 9/11 anthrax attacks on Hatfill, see his Wikipedia entry:
link to en.wikipedia.org
The cover-up on the 9/11 anthrax attacks continues to remain in place.
“Of course, I’m not paranoid.”
No, you’re simply a fool. Really, Fredo, after the dog-and-pony show at the UN by Colin Powell about how the US “Confirmed” that Saddam had WMD, you are actually stupid enough to believe anything the US government says?
As I recall, the first media reports on the anthrax attack sought to connect it to Iraq and Saddam Hussein. It was only much later when it became apparent that the anthrax source was definitely US in origin that Hatfill became the target.
“Attack on Israelis that the U.S. confirms is Hezbollah is more than enough proof for me. “
Well, I say it was you that carried it out. Perhaps Mooser will decide that’s more than enough proof for him and do the honors.
breadflogs, i don’t know why, but i have a soft spot for you. you remind me of witty, but not as smart. in any event, you are making an ass of yourself with these pronouncements. in the span of 24 hours, the suspect has changed, and will likely change again. in other words, as the authorities like to do, they have already managed to condemn two contradictory perpetrators. the importance of this is that years from now some % of dolts will ‘remember’ that al-queda/hezbollah are responsible for the attack (like they ‘remember’ sadaam hussein’s involvement in 9-11) long after some other smuck is tried and sentenced. which leads me to my second point. you remember the lockerbie bombing, right? well that was the iranians, no, wait, lebanese, no, palestinians, no, wait, palestinians working for the iranians, no, wait, the libyans. problem is, of course, that it now turns out the lockerbie investigation and prosecution of megrahi was a farce, with confirmed manipulation of the most important bits of physical evidence and the payment of $$$ for falsified testimony. and now you come along with your ‘if an anonymous US source says it’s true, that’s good enough for me’ schtick. really, you embarrass yourself.
“breadflogs, i don’t know why, but i have a soft spot for you. you remind me of witty, but not as smart…”
The interesting bit is that Frodo manages to sound noticeably more intelligent if he’s not attempting to defend Israel and its works.
I read that as evidence of just how utterly indefensible the Israeli position is. You can’t say anything intelligent in support of it.
The interesting bit is that Frodo manages to sound noticeably more intelligent if he’s not attempting to defend Israel and its works.
you’re right, colin. and fredrick is infinitely more intelligent than the ‘iranian’ vidal sasson character above. my two cents: i don’t think that he is MEK, more likely sasha baron cohen’s nephew impersonating an iranian. (he measures contributions to society by counting ‘nobel prizes’ and opposes ‘islamic fascism’. what, no cuddling by an open fire and long walks on the beach, miss july, playboy israel edition? geesh, time for another cover buddy, that one is blown.)
ps sorry, fred. colin’s assessment about your intelligence is correct. kick that ziocaine habit brother, it’s killing brain cells.
“breadflogs, i don’t know why, but i have a soft spot for you. you remind me of witty”
Well, if you liked Witty, check out commenter “annan” (or is it “anan”?)
It’s Dick redux!
Is there a country in the Middle East, that, among other virtues, has a peculiar expertise in the production of convincing fake passports, fake ID’s, fake drivers licenses?
YES! Afghanistan cave country according to SC Rep Joe Wilson.
Well, this wasn’t a particularly convincing drivers license:
link to haaretz.com
(For those outside the US, a Michigan Drivers License would never contain a Baton Rouge, Louisiana address…)
This actually kind of rules out a major player of any kind being directly involved in the operation. This guy never would have been able to pass even a moderately competent screening. Why give him a driver’s license that’s a red flag to anyone who knows enough?
It suggests a minor faction of some kind, which may or may not have been sponsored or manipulated by almost anyone.
Dispatch the bombers and push this pestilencial swamp into the sea!! No more tolerance of Louisianan terrorism and those awful gumbos!
For those who do not live in USA: a part of postal code tells the state of the address, and the first letter of the code is always the first letter of the state. For all I know, there could be Baton Rouge in Michigan, but zipcode “LA” has to be from a state like Lichigan or Lassachusetts.
Very interesting… in addition to Israel’s involvement in the assassinations of Iranian scientists and bombing of weapons depots and pipelines, it is possible that Israel has assassinated up to ten Iranian Revolutionary Guard officers recently…
link to upi.com
I’m not sure Israel is in any position to be lobbying the world to add the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to the list of “terrorist organizations.”
link to haaretz.com
No — but they may be engaged in determinedly baiting Iran into striking back.
Maybe they did succeed.
Barak now saying ‘coulda been anyone’ — shortly after Netanyahu smoothly swung on the pitch — does fit with the ‘this was to be ‘play ball!’ for the attack on Iran’ theory.
So the attack happens, Netanyahu knows exactly what to say, Britain, France, Russia et al immediately call Israel and call Obama — and Israel is warned off. She backs down. Hence Barak’s remark.
Pretty good reading:
link to jpost.com
The Jerusalem Post’s ‘analysis’ of the attack. I’m too lazy to post excerpts, but it’s a hoot. Trust me.
There’s even a punch line:
“…But, above all, it[Israel] will first work to create an intelligence dossier to prove to the world that Iran really was behind the bombing.”
Good writing! ‘Create’ is exactly the right word choice.
Anyway, the wistful hopes of the Jerusalem Post notwithstanding, it’s over. Seven dead have a half-life of about 48 hours as a casus belli these days. Israel won’t be able to attack.
Them posters on jpost – the depth of their cogish brainwash – well it just makes me wanna be a fly on their wall when their zio fantasies come a-tumblin’.
But just fer future reference.
Let us suppose nothing more at all comes to light about this attack (which is more than likely — particularly if Israel doesn’t want anything to come to light).
Watch. Even though there is absolutely nothing at this point to link Hezbollah and Iran (who for some reason are now a monolithic entity) to this attack, two years from now the Hasbaroids will be firmly referring to this as a ‘Hezbollah attack’ or an ‘Iranian attack.’
And it works! Most of us, two years into the future, will no longer clearly recall this at all — and will accept that there was some kind of link to Hezbollah or Iran.
Of course. Today Israeli and American officials routinely refers to Iranian and/or hezbollah as responsible for the Buenos Aires attack. They might have been involved but have you ever looked at the evidence for this claim — practically non-existent.
NY Times is now reporting: A senior American official confirmed Israel’s assertions on Thursday that the suicide bomber who killed five Israelis in an attack here on Wednesday was a member of a Hezbollah cell operating in Bulgaria.
But the article goes on to say that the assassin remains to be identified.
This is almost fatuous:
” A senior Israeli official said on Thursday that the Burgas attack was part of an intensive wave of terrorist attacks around the world carried out by two different organizations, the Iranian Quds Force, an elite international operations unit within Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, as well as Hezbollah.
“They work together when necessary, and separately when not necessary,” the official told reporters on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to publicly discuss national security issues…
Remember the Beirut truck bombing? Remember Israel’s rebuff in 2002? Going back further, remember Iran’s successful assassinations of ex-officials of the Shah’s regime?
Both Hezbollah and Iran are perfectly capable of being extremely effective. Yet now we have them supposedly ‘mounting an intensive wave of terrorist attacks around the world’ — and up until now, they’ve been apparently conducted by the gang that couldn’t shoot straight.
I say Israel is monitoring, encouraging, and surreptitiously nurturing some marginal group. They’re sincere enough — but they’re working for Israel, even if they don’t know it.
There’s what I find to be a revealing juxtaposition of headlines at Haaretz.
One has the expected flurry of stories about the Burgas bombing — and then some columnists piece:
”A man has set himself on fire!”
That would be a reference to last Saturday’s burning man — who of course threatened to rekindle Israel’s social protest movement, last seen a year ago.
Of course, that was last Saturday. But now we’ve got the bombing, and it’s all okay.
Just like a year ago.
Starting with your conclusion and then selecting items from the past and stringing them together to ‘prove’ it is a pernicious non-forensic practice that can be employed to ‘prove’ almost anything.
…and here is a good example link to spiegel.de
“Starting with your conclusion and then selecting items from the past and stringing them together to ‘prove’ it is a pernicious non-forensic practice that can be employed to ‘prove’ almost anything.”
It beats simply asserting there’s unspecified evidence to support exactly the conclusion you would obviously find most pleasing.
Yes, Colin, it does.
Interesting to read up on the Buenos Aires bombing. Nothing in particular indicating that either Iran or Hezbollah did it, that I can see. Funny how a different impression has been implanted over the years…
About all that is clear is that (a) the bombing happened, (b) whoever did certainly wanted to kill a lot of Jews, and (c) the Argentinian judicial and political system seems to be remarkably susceptible to outside influence and corruption.
No one seems to have considered that the perpetrator might be an anti-Semitic Anders Breivik, inspired to the act in response to that atrocity.
Pulling back a bit on the whole Iranian and Hezbollah ‘ global terror assault’ (or whatever its being called), I have mixed feelings.
Maybe with so many accusations and so many arrests, there’s something to it.
But then I think, isn’t that about what the average German must have felt about Jews by about 1941? ‘Well, they always seemed okay to me — but look at all these stories…’
Even if we got any clear evidence, I can’t see it being recognizable as such. As I say, Iran and Hezbollah aren’t monoliths. Hezbollah has sympathizers — and Iran has individual players and factions all over the place. Any one of these could act off their own bat — and any one would be susceptible to manipulation by third parties.
Meanwhile, of course, Israel is going to be doing her best to mount herself and us on this horse and ride it straight off a cliff. To say the least, it’s depressing.
Guys, gals and inbetweeners: even if this is a genuine terrorist attack (which I profoundly doubt), let’s be mindful here that there’s NOTHING that Apartheid israel can do ’bout it. They’re unable to retaliate with a strike against either Iran or Hizbollah cuz they lost their deterrence capability back in 2006 when they lost the 34 day war to hizbollah.
They’ve been actively avoiding direct attacks on their neighbors since then and simultaneously pretending that they can. They know that only the usa can do the retaliation from here on and they’re pissed that obama won’t take us to another war in the mideast on their behalf.
Cornered rats in Tal Abib pretending to be lions? You betcha!
Israel never does well in wars that last more than a few days.
“Guys, gals and inbetweeners”
Thank You, Taxi! That was considerate and inclusive. I feel much better now.
Hezbollah is preparing ‘a big surprise’ for Israel, Nasrallah says
link to veteranstoday.com
Hey Blakey,
Let’s try guess how many mosadists watch Nasrallah’s speeches. Do they pass the popcorn or the Kleenex box at mosady cantina?
Lol. I would say they pass around fear.
It’s questionable how much Israel will be able to milk this incident, now that Batman shootings have pushed it out of the news cycle.
“James Holmes, 24, was a former neuroscience PhD student at University of Colorado-Denver…”
Not all neuroscience students are terrorists, but all terrorists are neuroscience students?
Anyway, thank God he wasn’t Muslim.
Further thoughts about the Batman killings. (Great name, by the way — catchy).
“…At least 12 people have been killed and 59 wounded in a shooting at a midnight cinema showing of the new Batman film near Denver, Colorado.
Witnesses said a man wearing a gas mask opened fire after tossing a tear gas canister in the auditorium as movie-goers watched The Dark Knight Rises…”
Life meets art. It definitely works better than if he’d done it at the opening of ‘Sex in the City II’ or something. Anyway, thank God he wasn’t Muslim.
…which raises a point. Muslims make up about a fifth of all the world’s people, and while I don’t know the exact proportion of these ‘random terrorist attacks in otherwise peaceful countries’ are conducted by Muslims, I daresay it’s as likely to be less than one-fifth as more than one fifth.
Which suggests that we’re misunderstanding the problem. We’re focusing on a subset of what is really a generalized outbreak of acts of random homicidal violence. It may be secondary as to whether these people have decided Allah wants them to do it or the dog next door wants them to do it.
Even before the Batman massacre, one noticed that Israel seemed to jam the brakes on Netanyahu’s initial efforts to use the Bulgaria bombing to whip the world into a frenzy against Iran. What happened? It’s possible that Israeli intelligence services realized that Netanyahu was talking sh*t and warned him to back off.
“Even before the Batman massacre, one noticed…”
See, I do restrain myself quite a bit.
“It’s possible that Israeli intelligence services realized that Netanyahu was talking sh*t and warned him to back off…”
Your post reveals an almost touching persistence in assuming that Israel deals in the coin of truth and fact.
I think the major powers realized Netanyahu was talking shit and warned him to back off.
Reading it that way, Barak’s sudden reversal makes perfect sense. Israel publicly abandons the claim — as she was told in no uncertain terms to do.
“Bulgarian president says Mossad gave no warning of possible attack”
link to timesofisrael.com
“Bulgarian President Rosen Plevneliev said on Wednesday that officials from Israel’s Mossad spy agency gave no warning of a pending terror attack on their soil when they met with Bulgarian officials a month ago, according to the Bulgarian Sofia News Agency.”
Netanyahu refuses explicit Iran threat @ link to atimes.com
“A security camera image of the suspected bomber in the Burgas airport attack.”
Wait a minute, I think I jammed with that guy in Seattle! It was a while ago, but who can forget somebody who looks so atypical?
Laughed out loud again. My first thought was, I miss Alice in Chains.
I don’t understand what is taking so long to identify this person — they have a wealth of information to work with.
“I don’t understand what is taking so long to identify this person — they have a wealth of information to work with.”
He keeps not having a connection with Iran or Hezbollah? It could be very frustrating.
We’re starting to backpedal. From Haaretz:
“…A suicide bombing that killed Israeli tourists in Bulgaria this week bore hallmarks of Iranian-backed Hezbollah militants but the U.S. Defense Department has not yet concluded who was behind it, a Pentagon spokesman said on Friday. ..”
So now we’re down to ‘hallmarks.’ I’m definitely reminded of the Arbabsiar thing. What was it Obama had in his first announcement about that: ‘conclusive evidence’?
Something like that.
Fredblogs,
That small bet I made is still looking fairly solid.
From USA Today, 17 minutes ago:
“White House not blaming Iran, Hezbollah in Bulgaria attack”
BEGIN QUOTE
The White House isn’t yet backing Israel’s assertion that Hezbollah, with the help of Iran, was behind this week’s deadly bombing of a tourist bus in Bulgaria.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak on Friday reiterated the Israeli belief that Hezbollah was responsible for the terror attack on Wednesday which killed five Israelis and a Bulgarian bus driver. And a U.S. official speaking on the condition of anonymity also told the Associated Press on Thursday that Iranian-backed Hezbollah was behind the attack.
But asked on Friday about possible Hezbollah involvement, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney was circumspect.
“It is certainly the case that Hezbollah and Iran have been bad actors, as a general matter,” Carney said. “But we’re not, at this point, in a position to make a statement about responsibility. ”
END QUOTE
Can we have a peek at that special intelligence you possess which leads you to a different conclusion than the American government?
Okay, this is for all the brainwashed idiots in the world:
Before you go around accusing hizbollah of the Bulgaria attack, why don’t you go learn a coupla facts about this Lebanese resistance group – ask yerselves a coupla obvious questions.
Like for instance, why would a small army (hizbollah) who militarily defeated israel TWICE on the battlefield spend its resources on the softest of targets, like attacking tourists? What gain for them?
I’ve even heard it said that it’s revenge for their slain military leader, Imad Mughniah. Well do you think that such an important and worshiped leader is worth ONLY seven tourist lives in the eyes of Hizbollah?
Think people think!!! Dammit!
The photograph of the alleged bomber ought to end racial/religious profiling in security lines once and for all.
Curious that we haven’t heard anything more about the fingerprints of the guy in the photo.
Few more curiosities:
1. comment on a Washington Times communities blog re Colorado killings: “the killer was wired by CIA. The Agency has a headquarters in Colorado. What is the likelihood that a lone dude could get all that firepower, and wire up his apartment . . .”
2. This morning, Dr. Larry Weinstein was guest on NPR (??) to discuss his book about CIA Mind Control experiments in the 1950s. Weinstein’s father had been treated at a psychiatric hospital associated with McGill University in Canada, and emerged from treatment with the functional capacity of a 3-year old. link to enotes.com
The comment on the Washington Times blog sure seems like genuine conspiracy theory, until you recognize that the US can do and has done the things alleged.
3. Statement in a different Washington Times communities blog:
responses to statement:
“Curious that we haven’t heard anything more about the fingerprints of the guy in the photo.”
AllenBee we haven’t heard anything because they haven’t been able to find an Iran link. Buffoons are desperately searching…
The DNA samples were send to labs in USA, and Bulgarian police is supposedly in possession of photo fit of possible second terrorist.