Open letter from Ismail Hanneya to Occupy Charlotte protesting the DNC: ‘We salute you’

Israel/PalestineUS Politics
on 70 Comments
catron letter 1
Ismail Hanneya at a prisoners’ rights rally in Gaza, 2012. (Photo: Joe Catron)

The open letter below was posted anonymously the online forum Paste Bin, on September 3, 2012. I verified the authenticity with Stanley L. Cohen Esq. who indicated Hanneya drafted the statement with the intent of Cohen reading the letter in Charlotte, North Carolina, to Occupy Charlotte on Sunday, September 2, 2012, one night before the Democratic National Convention. Due to extenuating circumstances, Cohen did not read the letter.

Hanneya signs the letter “Prime Minister,” although Mahmoud Abbas replaced Hanneya as Prime Minister with Salam Fayyad in 2007. Hanneya had been appointed Prime Minister following a Hamas victory in the March, 2006 Palestinian legislative elections, however leaders from Fatah carried out a soft coup three months later, effectively splitting the West Bank and Gaza into separately administered regions.
 

To the Bradley Manning Peace Camp at the Democratic Party Convention in North Carolina:

I wish that I could be with you today to read these words to you myself, but obviously I cannot, as I remain unwelcome in the United States. Instead I have asked my friend of many years Stanley Cohen to deliver this message of solidarity on my behalf.

I send the heartfelt greetings of the Palestinian people, as we salute you in your fight against the American military machine, against its secrets and lies, and against its vision of an American world order maintained through coercion and control. You bring your protest straight to the heart of the political system, there in Charlotte, and we are there with you in spirit, we Occupy Charlotte with you!

Gaza and the West Bank stand in solidarity with you, as we have stood against US military might for decades—we have been on the ugly receiving end of American policy for so long, fighting for our own freedom against Israeli and US control, that to know of your efforts gladdens our hearts. We understand that you have designated your Peace Camp as a sister-city to Gaza. On behalf of almost two million people who live in Gaza, we thank you for this honor, to know that others in the world stand with us gives us strength!

It has been seven years since we drove the settlers and the military from Gaza. It has been six years since the first free and fair elections in the history of our nation occurred, and in which the people in Gaza and the West Bank chose Hamas to act as the elected representatives of the Palestinian people. And it has been almost four years since we repelled the latest full-scale attack by the Israeli occupation forces. During this time, our people have been subjected to a systematic effort to break our will, to destroy our spirit, and to isolate us from the world. This Israeli-US agenda has failed, as surely as my words in your ears prove today.

In the seven years since the complete blockade of Gaza, the Israelis have attempted to create the world’s largest outdoor concentration camp. Living constantly under siege and attack, we are denied access to sufficient medicine, fuel, foodstuffs; we are subjected to the destruction of our infrastructure—our roads, water treatment and sewage facilities, ports and buildings; we are victimized by criminal phosphor weapons, mines, and the rape our environment; we live with unemployment over 30 percent; and hundreds of our men women and children have been killed, with many more injured—this is collective punishment, and we live it every day in our struggle. Yet we remain defiant and determined to prevail.

But we are not alone in this struggle—as your camp reminds us. The world is joining our resistance—we welcome with open arms the flotillas on the sea, the convoys on the land, and those solidarity activists who have stood shoulder to shoulder with our people. We hail the memory of Rachel Corrie, and the courage of her family. Rachel gave her life trying to stop war crimes against our people, and she is a martyr to our struggle. The injustice done to her memory by Israeli courts last week makes her even more one of us—it reminds the world how Israeli law does not give justice to Palestinians or anyone who struggles with them. We salute another American, Tristan Anderson, who bravely opposed occupation troops in the West Bank, and has paid a horrible price for standing for justice.

Like you, we want a stop to the endless wars promoted or fought by the United States; no more attacks on the Muslim world by American troops! We Palestinians want people to know the truth about US power, and its dirty deeds exposed to the sunlight. Palestinians hail all those courageous truth-tellers and activists everywhere who have shattered the veil of secrecy, for making information public at terrible risk to themselves and their families, so that those who struggle for independence can know the truth.

Our struggle against Israel and its massive, high-tech military bought and paid for by US taxpayers will not be defeated. Today there are more than nine million Palestinians who are stateless—six million of them are refugees living in camps throughout the Middle East. More than three million of us live under apartheid. The West Bank remains occupied by Israel’s army; Gaza remains blockaded. Despite this, we have no choice but to resist and demand our rightful position at the table of nations. Palestine will have justice, and it will need people of good conscience in America to stand up for us, and for the truth. Your presence and your voices there in Charlotte give American voters an alternative to the corrupt narrative of US power—you say, there is another way, there is another story, and you challenge the official secrets and lies of this government.

The American political process is now a global process—and we watch it from our corner of the world, waiting for some sign of change at the top. But meanwhile, it is the growing force from below that gives us hope. This movement is a global movement–our numbers are vast, we are legion, and we do not forget.

Thank you.

Ismail Hanneya
Prime Minister

Gaza
September 1, 2012

h/t Joe Catron.

70 Responses

  1. just
    September 6, 2012, 6:03 pm

    Thank you Allison.

    This is heartrending, yet hopeful.

  2. Annie Robbins
    September 6, 2012, 9:24 pm

    thank you allison

  3. ritzl
    September 6, 2012, 11:37 pm

    Thanks Allison. I hope this helps refocus attention on the plight of all Palestinians. Sounds too, like unity is the objective, however difficult it is to achieve.

    A few observations and many questions, but I can’t really pose them here, can I (given the pathetic state of our first amendment rights, HvHL)? Doesn’t Phil have to weigh in on this?

  4. Frankie P
    September 7, 2012, 12:12 am

    Is it not conspicuous and illuminating that this post, containing a letter of solidarity from the elected Prime Minister of Palestine, has generated only two comments on this blog? Meanwhile, the focus remains on the faux choice election coming up, meaningless DNC platforms, and the endless navel gazing and internal stuggles of American Jews. It’s absolutely no wonder we are getting no closer to a solution to this tired problem.

    Frankie P

    • Bing Bong
      September 7, 2012, 6:57 am

      I know, considering how notable Hamas are for what I presume are shared values round here such as “tackling more conservative groups” and as Joe Catron pointed out, Hamas’ integral commitment to gender equality and liberal progressiveness.

      I on the other hand seem to have fallen for the Zionist ‘boilerplate hysteria’ in my opinion of Hamas, like it seems all the silent Mondowiessians studiously ignoring the soapbox Allison Deger has respectfully handed Ismail Hanneya.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 7, 2012, 7:42 am

        this is definitely news worthy of publication and an excellent letter from PM Hanneya. fayyad is palestine’s ‘official’ PM and it’s doubtful he could ever get elected in any kind of democratic system in either the WB or palestine. why don’t you tell us what you don’t like about the letter.

        Our struggle against Israel and its massive, high-tech military bought and paid for by US taxpayers will not be defeated. Today there are more than nine million Palestinians who are stateless—six million of them are refugees living in camps throughout the Middle East. More than three million of us live under apartheid. The West Bank remains occupied by Israel’s army; Gaza remains blockaded. Despite this, we have no choice but to resist and demand our rightful position at the table of nations. Palestine will have justice, and it will need people of good conscience in America to stand up for us, and for the truth. Your presence and your voices there in Charlotte give American voters an alternative to the corrupt narrative of US power—you say, there is another way, there is another story, and you challenge the official secrets and lies of this government.

        no wonder it makes you hysterical. i suppose you support the recent massacres of targeted assassinations in gaza which the world press is for the most part completely ignoring.

      • tokyobk
        September 7, 2012, 8:43 am

        Annie,

        I would suggest you read, if you have not already, Professor As’ad Abukalil on Hamas. Why is he so critical of them? He is, for those who have never read “The Angry Arab” blog, no Zionist, to say the least.

        He is an Arab humanist intellectual and not a white liberal. On the the question of truly respecting agency (that is holding people and groups to the same standards of morality) I think the distinction matters. It is very easy for people in the West to romanticize their chosen freedom fighters. The religio-nationalist ideas of Hamas, even watered down, do not get a smidgen of sympathy by anyone here when they emanate from any Western source.

        It is in fact perfectly reasonable to ask if the people of Charlotte and the people at Mondoweiss share the values of Hamas even as (at least here) they share the same opponent. it is fair to ask if Occupy also, like Henneya, sees Bin Laden as a holy warrior and if generally it believes that the Palestinians are a nation of Jihad, has he has said. (no not spiritual strivings).

        link to guardian.co.uk

        Lastly, if one does believe that the struggle in Israel is a jihad to cleanse al-Quds and restore a proper Muslim government to all Muslim lands, that is their right. And it is the right of any American to believe and support that idea which is a key Hamas belief. But then please don’t invoke a universal an humanist appeal to the end of Zionism or admit (to yourself) that the universals are a tactic. If the struggle in Palestine is indeed about human rights, universally applied, there is much to dislike about Hamas.

        And without a doubt, “Hamas” is used as a tag to shut down conversation and uncomfortable inquiry into Zionism and Occupation. But waving away concerns about what Hamas says and does to its own people and what it says it will do to Israelis and Jews adds to the fortress Israel mentality.

        Agency means taking people seriously and at their word and by their actions.

        Lastly, there is no one here that takes seriously the idea that Hamas repelled the Zionist invader. The IDF is %100 responsible for how they chose to fight in Gaza, a densely populated civilian area. But, airing and admiring that kind of pathetic (in the true not pejorative sense of the word) boast is not only the racism of low expectations but just the kind of “Khyber ya yahood” sideline chanting that is so easy from the safety of the internet cafe.

      • eljay
        September 7, 2012, 10:07 am

        >> tokyobk @ September 7, 2012 at 8:43 am

        Good post.

      • Bing Bong
        September 7, 2012, 10:33 am

        Like!

      • manfromatlan
        September 7, 2012, 10:43 am

        Hi, tokyobk,
        Hamas is still a creation of Israel, promoted as a counterweight to Fatah, just as Osama bin Laden and the mujahedeen were a creation of America, just as the Muslim Brotherhood were promoted as an antidote to Arab nationalism.

        Hamas is only successful because of the corruption of Fatah and the Palestinian authority, and while it follows that ivory tower Marxist intellectual Professor Angry Arab doesn’t like religionists of every stripe, his views count for little among the er, masses.

        It doesn’t follow though that if we agree with Ismail Haniyeh’s various statements that we agree with his movements’ Islamic strictures. As far as I, an outsider, am concerned, if the Palestinians support Hamas then that is good enough for me.

        I also would not consider the Guardian as an honest interlocutor for the Palestinian cause. Their quote “After the attacks in New York and Washington DC in September 2001, children in Gaza were photographed giving out sweets to drivers” is incorrect and malicious. After September 2001, sweets were handed out in Jerusalem and Kuwait, with cameras ready to instantly beam the images around the world. But the Guardian, like all other ‘liberals’ will pick on Gaza because that’s the seat of Hamas’s power? Hmm.

        I also find it interesting that Osama bin Laden is the convenient ‘terrorist’ bogeyman, still trotted out to scare the sheep a year after his death. Israel and America are terrorist states of a greater magnitude than OBL, as the people of Gaza can well attest.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 7, 2012, 10:43 am

        It is in fact perfectly reasonable to ask if the people of Charlotte and the people at Mondoweiss share the values of Hamas

        tokyobk, i reviewed bongs comment and i did not read a question in there. he/she didn’t ask if the people of charlotte or the people of mondoweiss shared the values of hamas.

        furthermore, from your response here is it appropriate for me to assume you are not supportive of the site publishing this communication? if that is the case why don’t explain to us why you agree allison has provided a ‘soapbox’ for hanneya.

        also, do you think it would further a resolution to ignore or silence hamas off from the american people and the world? and if so how so? also, please explain in what way you feel the introduction of this communication as provided by allison does a disservice, in your opinion.

        But then please don’t invoke a universal an humanist appeal to the end of Zionism or admit (to yourself) that the universals are a tactic.

        is there a particular reason you are lecturing me here today? it may interest you to know i do not self identify as an anti zionist. what pray tell have i said that inspired you to launch into this lecture? imho it is newsworthy and it’s an excellent letter. if you disagree simply grab a blockquote of it and explain why you disagree. or by all means explain what it is about the segment i cited that prompted you to launch into this lecture.

        i am sure you know both israel and the US doesn’t openly dialogue with hamas (although both do privately). the mere citing of letter here on this blog is met with with silencing methods of attacking allison who has absolutely no authority here wrt what gets published as far as i know, those decisions are made by phil and adam. so if you agree with both US/IS policy of not listening to anything hamas has to say so be it. but i support the site publishing communications to the american people from hamas as well as communications from iran or hezzbollah or israel or elliot abrams or anyone who has anything to say relevant to the topics we cover.

      • Bing Bong
        September 7, 2012, 11:01 am

        **The following is of course not a genuine statement of my situation but a hyperbolic example to underline my initial point. Please don’t moderate this on the grounds of sock puppetry**

        My apologies, Hamas are of course a great bunch of guys.

        As a feminist, divorced, female, secular Jewish, gay, blogger of domestic human rights abuses and part time dancer/model/Goth Death Metal rhythm guitarist living in Gaza with a penchant for wearing cutoffs when shopping at the mall please forgive my inexplicable hysteria.

        For some reason I don’t feel entirely comfortable here. If only there was somewhere close by I could live which would feel like a better fit.

      • manfromatlan
        September 7, 2012, 11:16 am

        I’m sure you’d be more comfortable living in Israel, Bing Bong. Have you ever wondered why many Jews are not comfortable with living there?

        Why more and more young Jews are turning away from their parents views on this subject? That is what you should be concerned about.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 7, 2012, 11:17 am

        “If the struggle in Palestine is indeed about human rights, universally applied, there is much to dislike about Hamas.”

        Yes, but if the result of going after Hamas means that the greater foe, israel, can continue its damnable way in the occupation and the denial of human rights to Palestinians everwhere, would the wiser course not be to table the issue of Hamas until zionism is slain? After all, what good would it do to take on Hamas now, and, by doing so, potentially make the evil of the israeli occupation permanent?

      • Annie Robbins
        September 7, 2012, 11:32 am

        bing, your initial statement was hyperbolic. what’s the point of hyperboling your initial hype? it’s quite clear what you’re doing. your trying to shame first allision, then the site and shoving all these insinuations because you don’t want hamas’s voice in the discussion. well, they’re here. they exist. and you look childish throwing a hissy fit over this letter getting published.

        some reason I don’t feel entirely comfortable here

        then so go somewhere else, no one has a gun to your head.

      • Joe Catron
        September 7, 2012, 11:54 am

        “He is an Arab humanist intellectual and not a white liberal.”

        And he has nothing to do with Palestinian women, whom I believe we were discussing.

        “But waving away concerns about what Hamas says and does to its own people and what it says it will do to Israelis and Jews”

        So let’s hear these so-called “concerns.” I see lots of snide innuendos in this threat, but not a single factual claim. Go figure, right?

        “Lastly, there is no one here that takes seriously the idea that Hamas repelled the Zionist invader.”

        Curiously, lots of people here think it’s done quite a bit of repelling (along with other resistance factions; none of them would ever claim to have fought alone). By comparison, I really don’t know that your “here” counts for so much. No offense.

      • Bing Bong
        September 7, 2012, 12:06 pm

        “bing, your initial statement was hyperbolic.”

        No, I think that it’s reasonable to say that Hamas are not noted for gender equality and liberalism.

        “some reason I don’t feel entirely comfortable here”

        ‘here’ being Gaza. Which makes the following quite funny…

        “then so go somewhere else, no one has a gun to your head.”

        …..because to say that shows you’ve never been a feminist, divorced, female, secular Jewish, gay, blogger of domestic human rights abuses and part time dancer/model/Goth Death Metal rhythm guitarist living in Gaza with a penchant for wearing cutoffs when shopping at the mall then!

        And if you want Hamas’ voice in the discussion why are you complaining about people like me pointing out what Hamas are saying through their governance and ideology? Or is it just what they present in open letters to the outside world when they correspond to your opinion of things that counts? Rather an abandonment of the Gazan Palestinians you claim to care about who are not happy under Hamas rule isn’t it?

      • Bing Bong
        September 7, 2012, 12:10 pm

        er…they don’t support the occupation?

        Woody Tanaka would have them supporting Hamas as an alternative. That can’t be right can it?

      • Joe Catron
        September 7, 2012, 12:20 pm

        “For some reason I don’t feel entirely comfortable here.”

        As an actual (not fictional) foreign resident of Gaza, I can only respond that those uncomfortable with the cultural norms or political systems other people choose for their own countries are more than welcome to avoid them. It’s a big world out there.

        Yes, this is a more conservative place than some people from elsewhere might prefer to live. So’s Alabama. In both cases, this has much less to do with the elected government than outsiders might imagine.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 7, 2012, 12:32 pm

        No, I think that it’s reasonable to say that Hamas are not noted for gender equality and liberalism.

        that might be relevant had you limited your critique to hamas but you didn’t, you made it a referendum on the site with your “shared values round here” and adding joe and allison to the mix . just like your recent woody comment. you bore me. your interest is not talking about the topic but about the posters here and you do it with gotcha point scoring insinuations and often in the guise of questions “that can’t be right can it?”. boring! good bye.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 7, 2012, 12:40 pm

        “Woody Tanaka would have them supporting Hamas as an alternative.”

        Wrong. My point: Attacking someone who is fighting the greater foe is stupid. Churchill embraces Stalin when Hitler is on the march. People pulling their hair out over how or whether to view Hamas is objectively pro-israeli because it distracts attention from the main fight against that enemy. All else is commentary.

      • manfromatlan
        September 7, 2012, 1:03 pm

        Speaking for myself I support the right of Palestinians to elect any one they should so choose.

        And Israel (and its surrogates) should not interfere in that process.

      • Mooser
        September 7, 2012, 2:06 pm

        “then so go somewhere else, no one has a gun to your head.”

        Oh, come on! I was just taking aim, and you made him move. Now I’ll miss for sure.

      • Bing Bong
        September 7, 2012, 4:00 pm

        So your point is Israeli Jews who are anti occupation shouldn’t oppose Hamas’ reprehensible actions outwith the cause of slaying Zionism. Indeed, not even oppose Hamas’ more extreme wishes and ultimate aims regarding the non Arab Israelis for the sake of peace. This presupposes that Hamas is the only road to peace and a Palestinian state. And as I said, that can’t be right can it? Not least because of those very actions and ideologies you want to sweep under the carpet.

      • Walid
        September 7, 2012, 4:41 pm

        Tokyobk, eventhough I share its aversion to Israel, I don’t share Hamas’ values; at the end of the day, it’s an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood that has its agenda on where it wants to take the world.

        Annie, there’s more to Hanniyeh’s letter than meets the eye. Remember that Hamas’ executive is now stationed in Qatar, which is solidly in the US camp so you can say it’s changing its look. Combine the open letter with Hanniyeh’s declaration last week about its acceptance of the 67 borders and you’ll see what his “we too are humans that are suffering” message to Charlotte is about. Hamas had nothing to do with Sharon’s pullout from Gaza, the whole thing was an Israeli scam to sacrifice the homes and farms of 7,000 Gaza settlers in exchange of getting the US to guaranty the rights of 500,000 settlers to remain on the WB and to greenlight the expansion of the WB wall and to get the 2 resolutions from Congress that the Palestinians would be neither getting any wholesale right of return, nor any future removal of substantial settlement blocks from the WB. I think the Brotherhood would be just as happy getting whatever of the Swiss cheese of the WB is left behind along with Jordan. Maybe the MB, especially the one in Egypt, is not into RoR either and are looking at alternatives for the Palestinian problem.

      • Joe Catron
        September 7, 2012, 6:03 pm

        “Hamas’ reprehensible actions”

        As I’ve said before in this thread: lots of snide innuendos; not a single factual claim. A shameful, disgusting, but eminently transparent attempt at character assassination by insinuation.

      • seafoid
        September 7, 2012, 6:09 pm

        Hamas went down a lot in my estimation recently when a spokesman insisted that the people of Palestine were descended from Arabs in the Arabian peninsula. WTF? So the land was empty then pre 637, was it akhuwi ?

      • manfromatlan
        September 7, 2012, 6:09 pm

        Well, BB :) those Israeli Jews who are anti-occupation (doesn’t mean a fig unless they’re also for real democracy) will have to make whatever accommodation they must in order to live with the duly elected representatives of the Palestinians whether they like them or not, whether they’re the Islamists of Gaza, or the Quislings of the PA.

        Unless you want them to live in a state of permanent war and lack of safety. The cost of the present situation is the eventual breakdown of Israeli society, which you fail to recognize. Perhaps you have a home…elsewhere?

      • manfromatlan
        September 7, 2012, 10:38 pm

        @Joe Catron, it also is ironic that an Israeli sympathizer should talk about Hamas’s ‘reprehensible’ actions, without acknowledging Israel’s own.

        As far as I am concerned, if Israel reserves the right to attack Hamas, then Hamas reserves the right to defend itself. And who broke the numerous ceasefires? Certainly not Hamas.

      • manfromatlan
        September 7, 2012, 10:43 pm

        Would be interesting to see the context in which that was said about Palestinians being descended from the Arabs of the Arab peninsula, but historians pretty much agree that the “Hebrews” were a small pond in a vast sea of Semitic peoples that extended from Palestine all the way to Turkey, Arabia, and Babylon, just saying.

      • Bing Bong
        September 8, 2012, 6:01 am

        “Well, BB :) those Israeli Jews who are anti-occupation (doesn’t mean a fig unless they’re also for real democracy)”

        So I take it that Hamas without democracy isn’t worth a fig either?

      • manfromatlan
        September 8, 2012, 9:12 am

        Hamas was elected, Bibi. Even though you arrested many of their candidates and tried to disrupt their election. You can’t even treat your Arab citizens equally with the Jewish citizens. And your courts allow settlers and soldiers to kill Palestinians with impunity. So, relatively speaking, they’ve a better democracy than you do.

      • Bing Bong
        September 8, 2012, 10:05 am

        “As far as I, an outsider, am concerned, if the Palestinians support Hamas then that is good enough for me.”

        Does this apply to Israeli support of the Bibi government too?

      • manfromatlan
        September 8, 2012, 11:33 am

        “Does this apply to Israeli support of the Bibi government too?”

        No one’s stopped you. I can understand your emotional and self-preserving needs, but just don’t agree with them.

      • Bing Bong
        September 9, 2012, 4:15 am

        I don’t know what that means. If I was an Israeli I ceratinly wouldn’t have voted for him. You’re mistaken to think I did, would or are in a position to.

        Being anti Hamas is quite common outside of Israel you know, if not this discussion thread.

      • ColinWright
        September 9, 2012, 4:34 am

        The distinction would be that while Hamas is a bit inclined to the religious fundamentalist end of the spectrum, ‘the Bibi government’ is evil.

        Also, Hamas isn’t striving to bring on a universally disastrous war.

      • Bing Bong
        September 9, 2012, 6:27 am

        Yet it is funded and controlled by other religious fundamentalists in Iran who’s nuclear program whether peaceful or not is forcing the issue of war.

      • Bing Bong
        September 9, 2012, 3:00 pm

        “As I’ve said before in this thread: lots of snide innuendos; not a single factual claim. A shameful, disgusting, but eminently transparent attempt at character assassination by insinuation.”

        “…They screech “K-k-khamas!” and maybe throw in some boilerplate hysteria about “[I]slamic fundamentalists,” and we’re all supposed to go cower under our beds or something.”

        “Hamas is a bit inclined to the religious fundamentalist end of the spectrum,”

        Where is your proof that Hamas is a bit inclined to the religious fundamentalist end of the spectrum? Or is this just another snide innuendo designed to create hysteria?

        And in other news, apparantly you can be a little bit pregnant.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 12, 2012, 10:53 am

        “So your point is…”

        I’ve stated my point. If you lack the intelligence to understand clearly written words, please say so and I will be happy to restate it in small, elementary-school words. If you have any specific question, please ask it and don’t presume the capacity to accurately restate my position.

      • Bing Bong
        September 14, 2012, 6:10 am

        I technically understand your point, it just doesn’t hold water. As you’ve said before.

        “I support the rights of all people to rights (human, political, etc.) and the right to full equality. I personally don’t care if it is done in 1 state, 2 states, 10 states or whatever; so long as it’s done.”

        Although you have previously said you don’t support Hamas.

        Bing Bong “Hamas claim to be representing an oppressed people too. Why not support their preferred borders?”

        Woody Tanaka “Because I’m not a supporter of Hamas.”

        As far as I can see you are willing to relinquish your support of [Palestinian] rights (human, political, etc.) and the right to full equality while under the government of Hamas to ‘slay Zionism’ the ‘greater foe’ thereby somehow(!?) ensuring these rights in the wake of a solution (‘1 state, 2 states, 10 states or whatever’). And willing to do so for an organisation that you explicitly, and in simple primary school terms claim not to support (presumably because of their position on human rights and equality?). And in addition, extending this position of Hamas support as one Israeli Jews should hold who don’t support the occupation and support a peaceful state(s) solution.

        I’m certainly able to restate your position, the lack of intellect is within the point itself. In fact its borderline gibberish.

      • manfromatlan
        September 14, 2012, 10:25 am

        He supports Palestinian rights, but doesn’t necessarily support Hamas as a political organization. Rather like saying I support democracy, but will never vote Republican.

        I think it’s your comments, Bing Bong, that border on mendacity.

      • Bing Bong
        September 14, 2012, 11:52 am

        But his support of Palestinian rights is through supporting Hamas’ attempts to ‘slay Zionism’. This is supporting Hamas, especially as a great deal of their raison d’etre and political creation and creed is based on (and here I’m using the phrase rather euphemistically) slaying Zionism.

        Its gibberish when he says he isn’t and at the same time, is supporting Hamas.

        To use your simile, it’s like voting Republican on major issues but disagreeing on a number of other issues. It’s still voting Republican.

      • manfromatlan
        September 16, 2012, 12:50 pm

        I doubt very much he supports Hamas, that is merely your inference. No one believes that Hamas will slay ‘Zionism’. In my opinion the way to do that is to Boycott, Divest, and Sanction.

      • Bing Bong
        September 17, 2012, 4:30 am

        He says himself he doesn’t object to Hamas because they are trying to ‘slay Zionism’. He draws a comparison with his position as; “Churchill embraces Stalin when Hitler is on the march.” and he also says he is not a supporter of Hamas.

        The kindest conclusion would be that he’s lying down with dogs and quietly trying to brush off the fleas when nobody is looking.

      • manfromatlan
        September 17, 2012, 10:13 am

        He doesn’t send convoys of arms to Hamas as Churchill and Roosevelt did for Stalin, Bing Bong.
        I can criticize Hamas for its regressive policies, and at the same time, support the right of the Palestinian people to elect whomever they want. That does not make either of us a ‘Hamas’ supporter, or Churchill, a Stalin supporter.
        Funny world, still, that people dislike Israel more than they do Hamas. Try to grow an Israeli democracy before you decry the failings of others.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 17, 2012, 10:53 am

        “I’m certainly able to restate your position, the lack of intellect is within the point itself. In fact its borderline gibberish.”

        Nope. You simply don’t have the intellect to understand it. Sorry, but the world needs floor sweepers, too. Go find a broom.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 17, 2012, 10:55 am

        “I think it’s your comments, Bing Bong, that border on mendacity.”

        I think you are too kind.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 17, 2012, 10:57 am

        “But his support of Palestinian rights is through supporting Hamas’ attempts to ‘slay Zionism’. This is supporting Hamas, especially as a great deal of their raison d’etre and political creation and creed is based on (and here I’m using the phrase rather euphemistically) slaying Zionism.”

        When your premise is wrong, your conclusion must be wrong, too. Your premise is wrong.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 17, 2012, 10:59 am

        “He says himself he doesn’t object to Hamas because they are trying to ‘slay Zionism’.”

        Again, you should really invest in some remedial reading lessons. It might do you a world of good.

      • Bing Bong
        September 17, 2012, 11:12 am

        Strictly speaking the conclusion can still be right if the premise is wrong.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 17, 2012, 11:36 am

        “Strictly speaking the conclusion can still be right if the premise is wrong.”

        Regardless, here, both your premise and conclusion are wrong.

      • Bing Bong
        September 18, 2012, 4:35 am

        I’ve shown I’m correct.

      • Bing Bong
        September 18, 2012, 7:31 am

        “Sorry, but the world needs floor sweepers, too. Go find a broom.”

        I found one, your position was swept up and dumped in the bin a number of posts previously. I’ll leave the lid up if you want to delve in and pick it back out.

  5. mthunlan
    September 7, 2012, 1:02 am

    And where is the statement of this “Occupy Charlotte” in which they insist that, though they understand his position, only having the same enemy doesn’t imply they are allies i.e. they don’t say “Amen” to all the other views of the Hamas especially about women, liberals and gays despite his fight against their Zionist counterpart.
    And moreover he should end the civil war with the Fatah?
    It’s remarkable that since the death of Arafat, when the PLO got it first though on a moderate level convincing leadership ever, they faced a decline in popularity, that even here people are unscrupulous to show admiration for islamic fundamentalists.

    • Abdul-Rahman
      September 7, 2012, 3:45 am

      One thing I would note (regardless of what one’s opinion is on Hamas), Hamas has shown pragmatism in its rule that has actually led it to conflicts with more conservative groups within the Gaza Strip itself (see Hamas confronting a group called “Jund Ansar Allah” or “The Army of the Supporters of God” back in 2009 for example). From Al-Jazeera: link to youtube.com

      • mthunlan
        September 7, 2012, 5:05 am

        Sorry but it’s no news to me that even the Hamas turns from the hunter into the hunted even if they show some what can be in the farest sense interpreted as respect for the Israaeli position.
        That at least in the Gaza Strip, where you couldn’t imagine that there is even enough space to form a secession, not even the Hamas has the overall rule, is remarkable!

    • Joe Catron
      September 7, 2012, 4:00 am

      And what, pray tell, do you imagine that Hamas’ views on women and liberals are?

      It’s only a slight exaggeration to say that the movement, as an activist base and a voting bloc, IS women.

      link to conflictsforum.org
      link to chinadaily.com.cn

      And like any other broad, mass organization, it includes a liberal element. Ahmed Yousef is only one prominent example.

      As for “the civil war with the Fatah,” I don’t think it’s exactly a secret who began and continues it.

      link to vanityfair.com
      link to jpost.com

      This is really the least impressive rhetorical trick Zionists have. They screech “K-k-khamas!” and maybe throw in some boilerplate hysteria about “[I]slamic fundamentalists,” and we’re all supposed to go cower under our beds or something. I dunno, does anyone reading this actually fall for it?

      • mthunlan
        September 7, 2012, 5:08 am

        Sorry that’s also no news to me that sometimes the oppressed adopts the worldview of his oppressor.
        IMHO that’S the reason why so many Antizionist Jews are around.

      • Joe Catron
        September 7, 2012, 5:41 am

        I’m shocked – SHOCKED – to hear a Zionist (male, I think) denying the agency of Palestinian women! No, wait …

        Let’s be clear, the oppressors here are you and other supporters of the Zionist project. Everyone is perfectly clear on that, and curiously, nobody has adopted your worldview as a result.

        Dare I ask whom you imagine are oppressing the Zionist Jews? I probably shouldn’t, but this could be quite funny.

      • Mooser
        September 7, 2012, 2:09 pm

        “Sorry that’s also no news to me that sometimes the oppressed adopts the worldview of his oppressor.
        IMHO that’S the reason why so many Antizionist Jews are around.”

        ROTFLMSJAO!! Hey “mnthulan” did you see the article on the “Joel” guy? He went all the way over to the “oppressor”.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 7, 2012, 7:14 am

        i don’t fall for it joe, generally i just scroll past them. but i was going to add a link to the gaza bombshell and a link to helena cobban re the screeching about women. anyone who knows anything about palestine knows it’s the women who get out the vote. hamas won in both gaza and the WB and it was the women who organized that.

      • PeaceThroughJustice
        September 8, 2012, 3:14 am

        Good links on the women in Hamas, Joe. Thanks.

        Here’s that Helena Cobban article from 2006–
        SISTERHOOD OF HAMAS
        link to salon.com

      • ColinWright
        September 9, 2012, 4:38 am

        Joe Catron says: “…They screech “K-k-khamas!” and maybe throw in some boilerplate hysteria about “[I]slamic fundamentalists,” and we’re all supposed to go cower under our beds or something. I dunno, does anyone reading this actually fall for it?”

        Nevertheless, it’s a good tactic. Even if one fails to fall for it, one is then thrown into the position of defending a group whose exact tenets you aren’t sure of but strongly suspect you don’t unequivocally support.

        However, I believe in the incremental approach. Better is better than worse. Whatever its failings, Hamas is infinitely preferable to Zionism. Therefore, I prefer Hamas to Zionism.

    • manfromatlan
      September 7, 2012, 10:50 am

      And who says “Amen” to all the other views of the Hamas especially about women, liberals and gays”? Methinks I sense a pink washer argument here.

      One thing that has struck me is how many gay commenters, taught by their own political struggles and fight against prejudice, are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

      And I believe that many good people among the Palestinians are aware of this.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 7, 2012, 11:34 am

        And who says “Amen” to all the other views of the Hamas

        no one, it just makes for good theatre which is their specialty.

      • ColinWright
        September 9, 2012, 4:43 am

        “One thing that has struck me is how many gay commenters, taught by their own political struggles and fight against prejudice, are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

        And I believe that many good people among the Palestinians are aware of this.”

        I think the Israeli efforts at ‘pinkwashing’ must be strictly compartmentalized — they need to make sure that only certain potential Israel fans hear about this.

        I vote for getting the word out to Christian Fundamentalists: Israel is Gay and proud of it!

        This image in particular is a good one for — say — rural Arkansas.

        link to haaretz.com

  6. Bing Bong
    September 7, 2012, 5:17 am

    “Hanneya had been appointed Prime Minister following a Hamas victory in the March, 2006 Palestinian legislative elections, however leaders from Fatah carried out a soft coup three months later, effectively splitting the West Bank and Gaza into separately administered regions.”

    From Hostage

    “The fact that Hamas won the elections to the PLC didn’t make Ismail Haniyeh the Commander-in-Chief. Abbas won the Presidential elections in 2005 with 60 percent of the vote. The Hamas militias launched a coup in 2007 against the legitimate Presidential Security Force that had always been controlled by President Arafat and in-turn, by Abbas.

    The Vanity Fair article made it appear that Fatah had inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza through a pre-emptive coup. But it really looks more to me like the US and Israel intentionally provoked Hamas, knowing that would be the result. The bottom line is that the Quartet proposal to transfer control of the military from the President to an empowered Prime Minister was designed to force Arafat out of power and it was never implemented. So I think Hamas made the first move. Even if they held the moral high ground, it was still a coup.”

  7. seafoid
    September 7, 2012, 7:39 am

    Good stuff from haniyeh. It’s the kind of message that resonates in the West.

    But Hamas are pretty poor overall IMO. The Palestinians need V 2.0

  8. Annie Robbins
    September 7, 2012, 8:05 am

    Israel’s Supreme Court yesterday ordered the state to release the “red lines document” in which it purportedly established the minimum caloric intake required for the survival of residents of the Gaza Strip, as part of a policy in place until June 2010 that restricted the entrance of goods into Gaza. The document, dated January 2008, reportedly details the minimum number of grams and calories that Gaza residents would be permitted to consume, according to demographic data such as gender and age. The release date of the document has not yet been determined.

    link to gisha.org

    Barak: Israel may reoccupy parts of Gaza strip
    link to jpost.com

    sadism

  9. manfromatlan
    September 7, 2012, 8:18 am

    Every time I despair for the Palestinians, I also am in awe of their sheer resilience in the face of all odds.

    It is we that fail them, and our selves, by allowing this state of affairs to continue. And why Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions are the best, the only option we have.

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