How Israelis imagine their future

Israel/Palestine
on 60 Comments
Border Police pregnancy
Israeli government Border Police website image

From Ofer Neiman: A photo of body painting on a pregnant woman (one hopes not a tattoo) published on the official Israeli Border Police Facebook page. The baby/foetus in the image is sleeping under a blanket with the Border Police’s logo. The caption– לוחם נוסף בדרך — means: ‘Another fighter on the way..’”

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60 Responses

  1. HarryLaw
    November 25, 2012, 6:29 pm

    The demographic threat, the ideological threat and the military technology threat, all three will see the end of the apartheid regime, in Iraq and Afghanistan the greatest armed force the world has ever seen, has been defeated by a rag tag insurgency armed with small arms and fertilizer based IED’s. The Zionists will be sorry they spurned the Arab peace initiative in 2002.

    • Scott
      November 25, 2012, 8:34 pm

      Yeah, spurned it when it was repeated five years later too. A huge turning point in the conflict I think –though barely mentioned in the MSM. It’s hard to see how allegedly smart people can be so stupid.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2012, 11:35 am

        “It’s hard to see how allegedly smart people can be so stupid.”

        There is no doubt that Zionists are very smart, much smarter, apparently, then the av-er-age Jew. They sure took us in.

    • American
      November 25, 2012, 9:10 pm

      Well it’s real stretch to call the Israel military the greatest armed force the world has ever seen….the pentagon military liasons to Israel liken the IDF to a undiscplined teenage gang.
      But anyway…from some commenters who hang out at Col Langs and are the still active duty and some missile defense experts……the consensus is that Iron Dome did work well for the Gaza rockets….but and it’s a big but….neither Iron dome Dome nor Arrow 2 missile defense could actually protect Israel if both Hamas and Hizbollah , who has serious missiles, launched enough missiles at Israel at the same time…..one failing is that the missile defenses can’t tell dummy missiles from loaded missiles and if cheap and easily made dummies were rained down with real missiles Israel would get some serious damage….couldn’t intercept them all and would be chasing a lot of dummies that would overstrain their defense.

      • straightline
        November 25, 2012, 11:29 pm

        This has always been the problem with missile defence systems. They are much cheaper and easier to counter than to make effective. Sakharov

        link to articles.chicagotribune.com

        said as much to Reagan.

      • chinese box
        November 26, 2012, 7:31 am

        Does anyone know if Iron Dome really gets 85% of the missiles or is that just spin?

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 26, 2012, 10:51 am

        Good question. I’d say we’ll never really know, unless some IDF insider reveals all. As an earlier article on this site shows, we don’t even really have a clue how many rockets are sent at Israel in the first place – we only have the (conflicting) figures from various Israeli sources to go on. That being the case, it would be very hard to know how many rockets have been shot down by the Iron Sieve,link to palestinianpundit.blogspot.ie and what % of the total amount this represents. And I suppose it goes without saying that I wouldn’t believe a single word from any Israeli govt source on this, or any other matter.

      • OlegR
        November 26, 2012, 11:37 am

        How about applying some logic to it then.

        Take some estimation about the number of rockets fired at Israel.
        Use Hamas source if you like.
        Then consider the accuracy of those rockets when they are aimed at cities ie
        doesn’t really matter where they hit as long as they do.
        Then estimate how much damage (in lives) they should have inflicted and compare with what actually happened.
        And extrapolate the effectiveness from there.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2012, 3:03 pm

        “How about applying…/…from there.”

        OlegR, did you try this before you recommended it? I tried it, and it showed me the anti-missile system is completely ineffective. Look how easily it was defeated by a few Hamas rockets and the Israeli election!

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 26, 2012, 3:06 pm

        ”How about applying some logic to it then.”

        I might say the same to you, as your post contains nothing approaching logic.

      • ritzl
        November 26, 2012, 6:37 pm

        @cb Partial spin. Around Dimona, it was about that. Overall, the effective engagement rate is about 30%-40%. That’s impossible to improve with these kinds of “pop-up” extremely short range missiles, and it’s easy to saturate the system, as American pointed out.

        Add to that, you kind of have to define what an “effective engagement” is. If you look at the pix of Iron Dome launches, their inclinations are >70 deg. whereas the Palestinians rockets are being launched at about 40-60 deg., so the intercepts are taking place over Israel and the debris field is also in Israel. Also, the target is destroyed, post-boost, so the warhead trajectory may or may not be altered significantly. It’s hard to tell how Israel is defining “success” on this.

      • Inanna
        November 26, 2012, 9:32 pm

        @chinese box: there’s a really easy strategy to ensure that the Iron Dome becomes ineffective. Hamas, Islamic Jihad or Hezbollah can set of hundreds of rockets without a warhead into Israeli and watch as the Dome starts to work. I guess they can also send in some rockets with read warheads too and the Dome won’t know which is which. Now if someone like me with not military background can this up, I’m sure the people at your local resistance strategy meeting can think up even better ways to deal with anti-missile technology.

  2. jl1
    November 25, 2012, 6:47 pm

    Ironically similar to the Third Reich’s program late in the maelstrom of WWII encouraging fertile German females to embraces impregnation as a means towards replacing the decimated ranks of it armed forces. One wonders if such hubris is to be rewarded in like fashion?

    • Citizen
      November 26, 2012, 8:37 am

      @ jl1

      I made a comment here yesterday that it smelled like a whiff from the Lebensborn-Hitler Jugend movements. Everything in the best interest of the child of course. But my comment was given the hook. It’s not here today.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2012, 11:31 am

        “But my comment was given the hook. It’s not here today.”

        Ciyizen, check my comment archive. It’s probably there. They do that to me all the time.

    • Ellen
      November 26, 2012, 9:42 am

      To be fair: the Dritte Reich’s government policy and propaganda is not the same thing as a deranged individual in Israel who has somehow confused his/her humanity, and that of a child on the way, with a nationalistic war enterprise.

      Yes, most Israelis are enamored by their military service and the military culture. But this set of obscene graphics and words is probably no more reflective of most all Israelis than any other individual deranged freak walking around anywhere else.

      • Citizen
        November 26, 2012, 11:14 am

        Well, yes, Ellen
        The Jewish Israelis have learned a thing or two about being more subtle than the Nazis, and, after all, they operate in a world after WW2 and Nuremberg, and its international legal progeny, Geneva, et al, not to mention the rising input of the internet which did not exist during the Nazi era. Given all that, I don’t think an educated, observant, rational person would go with your POV. Think about it, thanks.

      • Ellen
        November 26, 2012, 1:31 pm

        Citizen, am thinking, and maybe I did not express myself well. (not the first time!) I meant an official government policy of bringing as many warriors into the world as possible to fight the Zionist cause.

        For any woman to think like that about a child she carries and gives birth to is well…..really very sick, and dehumanizes her own child. It is monstrous.

        I have no doubt there are a number of such wacko extremists, but cannot imagine that to be the typical Israeli mother mindset.

        (Nor was it typical of any German or Russian woman, regardless of propaganda to create such a mindset.)

        As for Zionist subtly? Israel and some of it’s elected leaders have already set themselves up for charges of Genocidal intent. Does not sound like they have learned too much.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2012, 3:17 pm

        “I have no doubt there are a number of such wacko extremists, but cannot imagine that to be the typical Israeli mother mindset.
        (Nor was it typical of any German or Russian woman, regardless of propaganda to create such a mindset.)”

        Your point is well taken, Ellen. When the beliefs or ideology is extreme, like Zionism, there’s no need for everybody to embrace it to the extent of being “deranged freaks”. Nope, all it takes is not very many of those tribally sociopathic people, and a regime willing to make use of them and their delusions, to cause an awful lot of trouble and suffering. And it requires of the rest of the people a willingness to oppose them, if anything is to be done about it.

      • jl1
        November 26, 2012, 3:39 pm

        @Ellen
        ” is not the same thing as a deranged individual in Israel…”

        I beg to differ. This image was posted on the official Israeli Border Police Facebook page. That there is knowledge of this image is directly linked to Israel’s military promoting such visual statements as a positive approach towards rectifying the ‘Palestinian Problem’.

        It is not the approach of “a deranged individual in Israel”, but the approach of Israel’s deranged military. And if the military does not have Israel’s support (explicit and implicit in all this derangement), if its actions do not exist as surrogate for the national culture and mindset, please inform me as to my error by identifying the institution(s) better exemplifying the same?

  3. Betsy
    November 25, 2012, 7:44 pm

    I’m speechless. This is shocking on so many levels.

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2012, 11:29 am

      “I’m speechless. This is shocking on so many levels.”

      Betsy, for the sake of your own stability, do not, under no circumstances do any research on world history in the Twentieth Century. I don’t think you could take it.

      • Betsy
        November 27, 2012, 3:40 pm

        the Moose speaks like the sphinx — one never can quite know what he means… Does Mooser means that the 20th c. was a violent bloody mess that inures one to shock. Or, perhaps he means that this sort of thing was typical & widespread, so why the shock? If yes to either, I beg to differ. I’m pretty familiar w/ the 20th c. — but painting images like this on ones pregnant belly seems exceptional &, as others have suggested, unusual, disturbing as in weird & creepy. I can’t think of images like this from said 20th c. Yes, there was the cult of motherhood under Naziism — to build demographic power. And, when my father was in Palestine many years ago, someone spoke re/ birth rate & said that’s what would change the balance of power with Israel.

        But, to me, there seems something distinctively disturbing about putting this on ones belly. I can’t think of other examples like this (which could show my ignorance more than anything else). I do know of examples of enemies writing on the bellies of women they have killed — but that only suggests how ‘off’ this is. It doesn’t seem like the mother is in conversation with her unborn child here — I strongly suspect that this is really an adult-to-adult conversation. It seems that she’s flaunting her commitment to the security state to other adults. It feel creepy to me, because it feels like the epitome of a kind of ‘group-think’ that goes so deep that this absorption into the collective identity swamps any other role. It actually reminded me of the guards at Abu Ghraib or other facebook photos of soldiers doing disgusting things. Playing to the camera, doing ‘hijinks’ that express a kind of situational craziness because of their violent settings. Probably underpaid grunts ending up in bad job situations carrying out the imperialist imperatives of distant ruling elites — flaunting their tough prison guard identity to each other. But, the fact that she’s branding her unborn child into this imagery, locking that child like this — to me shows a breakdown of individuality & ordinary parent / child bonds. Even in very extreme situations, there’s usual a bit of space left around the role of parents — so that they can have a kind of primal loyalty to their child — to their own child’s right to survive, to claim other futures. Most places, there’s some recognition that this loyalty has unique power & is in tension with group identities. I agree strongly with Ellen — that this is almost surely true even in ghastly totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany — the dream of the patriarchal tyrants is that they have this kind of control over women’s reproduction — but I wonder how deep that went into many women’s identities in relationship with their own children & their own bodies. I’ve lived for years in some of the most economically marginalized communities in the world — & in places where parents could expect up to half of their children to die. My experience is that most people show an astonishing tendency to hope that their children will LIVE & get out of their hellholes. I feel like there are pretty strong taboos usually against ‘marking’ children in the womb — I can’t think of examples of women putting marks onto their bellies that ‘brand’ the unborn so deeply into ‘cannon fodder’ roles — or their own bodies into the role of cannon fodder factory. Amidst the violence of the 20th c, this feels like a pretty strange kind of dehumanization. Of course, there have been much worse & more violent things — but this is pretty distinctive in its creepiness. I’d like to know what the social setting was within which this woman decided to do this — I bet it was a kind of group-think, where she was pulled into doing something as a kind of spectacle for adult others — a group identity that swamped her relationship to her unborn child. If that’s correct, it’s a militarization of life that goes about as deep as it can go…I think it’s a trophy for & by the military apparatus. To lose one’s ability to feel shock at that kind of dehumanization of individuals would be a kind of dehumanization of oneself. Furthermore, that’s an endless spiral to go into — as Lily Tomlin says “no matter how cynical I get, I can’t keep up with world developments”. I think stability in the face of violence, comes FROM an ability to be shocked.

  4. talknic
    November 25, 2012, 9:39 pm

    Odd thing to wish for any baby

    • jl1
      November 26, 2012, 4:15 pm

      The best evaluations are often those laconic.

  5. MRW
    November 25, 2012, 10:39 pm

    Low-rent. Crude. Typical. What else is new?

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2012, 11:39 am

      “Low-rent. Crude. Typical.”

      MRW, there’s no need for formality after all this time, just call me ‘Mooser’. The rest sorta goes without saying.

  6. Avi_G.
    November 25, 2012, 11:57 pm

    On the face of it, anyone who is not familiar with Magav — the Hebrew acronym for Mishmaar Ha-Gvool (Border Guard) — would get the false impression that this is some innocuous reference to Israel guarding its borders (Wherever those borders actually are). After all, what sovereign country wouldn’t want to protect its own citizens and guard its borders.

    But Magav (The acronym is also the Hebrew word for a squeegee type mop like the one pictured here) isn’t merely a border guard-like force.

    Magav is actually a paramilitary force Israel created by merging regular civilian police with the military. So they ride around in military vehicles, but they can also pull anyone over for a traffic violation if they so choose.

    Note that since 1948, Israel has been using — and continues to use — what it calls State of Emergency Laws.

    But here’s the fine print: Israel has only used those laws against the non-Jewish minority within the Green Line. As such, anything goes. In Hebrew, those laws are called, Takanot Sh’aat Kherum. And theses regulations are enshrined in Israel’s Basic Law.

    As for Magav, they have a long history of being one of THE most brutal forces that Israel uses to suppress Palestinians on either side of the Green Line. Their powers and mandate are so broad that they are involved in anything from going after protestors in the occupied West Bank, hunting down car thieves and drug dealers, to harassing non-Jewish law abiding citizens, often kicking them and beating them to a pulp, oppressing Palestinians in occupied East Jerusalem and standing at the entrances to Moslem holy sites in Jerusalem where they more often than not allow foreign tourists into these sites, but prevent Moslem worshipers from entering.

    • Avi_G.
      November 26, 2012, 12:15 am

      In conclusion, Israel utilizes a two-tiered law enforcement system, one that wears proverbial white gloves and treats Jewish citizens with respect and dignity and another that Israel utilizes like a sledge hammer against the ethnic Palestinian minority west of the Green Line, as well as, east of the Green Line in the occupied territories of the West Bank.

      • sandhillexit
        November 28, 2012, 7:38 am

        I’d like to know who and why…… these “border” guys have been invited in to train the Alameda County sheriffs dept. Just not what Calif needs. (Problem with an empire is that the nasty stuff being done up in Germania or out in Parthia doesn’t stay there, bad habits come back to the center.)

    • OlegR
      November 26, 2012, 11:01 am

      /hunting down car thieves and drug dealers, to harassing non-Jewish law abiding citizens/

      I am confused are you saying it’s NOT ok to hunt down drug dealer and car thieves
      or are you saying that it’s OK to harass non-Jewish law abiding citizens?

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2012, 2:50 pm

        Watch out, Oleg! Speaking of drug-pushing, I’m pretty sure pushing pilpul is a crime, even if it’s prescription pilpul. Of course, I guess that stuff is pretty much OTC in Israel.

      • Avi_G.
        November 26, 2012, 3:02 pm

        I am confused are you saying it’s NOT ok to hunt down drug dealer and car thieves
        or are you saying that it’s OK to harass non-Jewish law abiding citizens?

        Yes.

  7. john h
    November 26, 2012, 12:18 am

    I agree with Betsy. “Another fighter on the way”. Isn’t this concept the very thing Palestinians are constantly accused of promoting? And that being supposed evidence of how little they value life?

  8. VR
    November 26, 2012, 12:28 am

    Another colonial thief/thug on the way…

  9. David Doppler
    November 26, 2012, 12:58 am

    The Israelis must be liberated of their fear.

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2012, 11:26 am

      “The Israelis must be liberated of their fear.”

      Oh, I see David, it’s the Israelis who need to be liberated? Those poor Israelis!

      And oh yes, isn’t it just a matter of indisputable record that when Israel is “liberated from fear” it becomes less intransigent.

      Funny how these not-a-Zionists always think of the Israeli emotional condition , before they think of the lives of non-Israelis. Now why is that? It’s the kind of behavior I would expect from, well, a Zionist.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        November 26, 2012, 3:10 pm

        It’s a bit like the way many will object to sanctions against Israel on the grounds that they would alienate ‘moderate Israelis’. Well, where are all these ‘moderate Israelis’? Are they protesting against wars? Refusing to serve in the occupation army? Boycotting the ‘settlements’? Voting for governments that want to end the occupation?

        And so on. Decades of pandering to Israeli ‘fears’ and ‘sensitivities’ have only brought us Netanyahu, the siege on Gaza and increased racism in Israeli society. Enough of that.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2012, 3:35 pm

        MDM, better steel yourself. When Israel commits a crime like Cast Lead, or its latest little atrocity, many, many liberal Zionists and not-a-Zionists think retreating into fantasy is the only possible answer. And it never occurs to them that giving Isreali “fears” and Palestinian lives an equivalence is wrong! Not to mention letting you know exactly where they are at.

    • American
      November 26, 2012, 12:19 pm

      David Doppler says:
      November 26, 2012 at 12:58 am

      The Israelis must be liberated of their fear>>>>>>>>

      Er……..how do you propose to do that?

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2012, 1:20 pm

        “Er……..how do you propose to do that?”

        By eliminating, as any kind of a force (military, moral, intellectual, political, legal, you name it) the Palestinians. And there go Israeli fears! I mean, c’mon, what’s more important, the lives of Palestinians, or the ostensible “fears” of Israelis? Of course, if you want to take the long way around, you can use the Doppler effect.

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2012, 1:30 pm

      “The Israelis must be liberated of their fear.”

      What do you propose to do, David, rain down marijuana from heaven? Import opium into Israel? Israelis have an awful lot to be afraid of, by any rational measure. And some day they may actually figure out who is scaring them. Never occurs to them to ask “Why are Jews not very afraid anywhere but Israel, where Zionism has triumphed? Could that be the source of our fears?”
      Which tells me they aren’t as scared as they should be.

      • MRW
        November 26, 2012, 5:00 pm

        @Mooser

        Never occurs to them to ask “Why are Jews not very afraid anywhere but Israel, where Zionism has triumphed? Could that be the source of our fears?”

        That Pacific sea air and your Chocolate Lab (What’s his name? Buddy?) does wonders for American Jewish thinking, which I claim you excel at. And I’ll include your wife in that mix, otherwise you’re in the doghouse. ;-)

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2012, 1:53 pm

      “The Israelis must be liberated of their fear.”

      Tell you what, Dave, why not start small, and then, move on to the big-time?
      We’ve got lots or Israelis, or ostensible Israelis, (or plausible Israelis, at any rate) posting here, guys like “Dimadok”, “jon s” , “gilad”, OlegR, and the rest. So why don’t you engage them, and “liberate” them “of their fear”? I’m telling you Dave, once the positive effect of liberation “from their fear” is noted, you will get unlimited support for a fear liberation campaign involving all Israelis!

      And then, we can start on the Jewish supremacism, the general bigotry, their funny conceptions of legality, their military philosophy, and by that time, Yonah will have the past “fine-tuned”. And we’ll all live happily ever after. Oh, whoops, I sorta disappeared the Palestinians, didn’t I? And the environmental problems, too. Oh well. More unicorns for me!

  10. seafoid
    November 26, 2012, 1:46 am

    It is perhaps a bit of a stretch to suggest the border police represent israel. The meanest, the cruelest but they are also the dumbest of the secular jews. They will still be singing mavet le aravim after zionism falls apart.

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2012, 1:25 pm

      “The meanest, the cruelest but they are also the dumbest of the secular jews. They will still be singing mavet le aravim after zionism falls apart”

      Hey, don’t knock ‘em! Wouldn’t they be just the guys you’d like to have around if world anti-Semitism forced Israel into an egalitarian, constitutional type of politics? They would be just the guys to help allay those Israeli “fears” (like loss of supremacy and impunity) Doppler posits.

      • seafoid
        November 26, 2012, 4:29 pm

        The “Border” part of “border police” stands for borderline intelligent. I wouldn’t have them making any decisions.

  11. elephantine
    November 26, 2012, 2:40 am

    Yuck. That’s so creepy.

  12. AhVee
    November 26, 2012, 2:56 am

    I doubt it’s a tattoo because it looks fresh / wet, and there’s no reddening around the sides. Though, if it was a tattoo that would be hilarious. Just imagine how shriveled and prune-ish it will look once the lady gives birth… also if you squint and fuzz out the text, you can easily pretend that it’s baby Shepard wrapped in a blanket adorned with an U.F.O., dreaming of his future among the stars. The only part I don’t get is why he’s sleeping in a large puddle of diarrhea.

  13. ToivoS
    November 26, 2012, 4:30 am

    My brother in law told me 30 years ago he was going to have three sons. He figured he would lose one in the war against the Arabs. He served in the IDF but never saw combat, only patrolled in the WB. He was raised here in the US and after serving the motherland returned to the US. After 2 daughters and 1 son his wife said enough. They were all raised in the US and as young adults today not one is interested in Israel. In fact his only son just married a catholic. So much for those long term demographic plans.

  14. eljay
    November 26, 2012, 7:55 am

    >> ‘Another fighter on the way..’

    Or perhaps it’s just another hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist on the way to help maintain the “Jewish State’s” ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.

    I sincerely hope not.

    • Shingo
      November 30, 2012, 7:20 am

      ‘Another fighter on the way..’”

      Anotehr example of Israeli hypocrisy bites the dust. I’ll remember this the next time a hasbat complain about how Palestinians are feding hatred to their children.

  15. pabelmont
    November 26, 2012, 8:43 am

    Oh dear! With world over-population such a direct and obvious precursor to Global Warming, how can Israel (or Palestinians, either) even think of encouraging population growth? (I defend Israeli and Palestinian reproductive excess — as I see it — by saying that these are not large populations, and it is “the west” broadly defined and China and India and Africa, again broadly defined, that “matter” in the overpopulation business, but babies to avoid “demographic threats” INSTEAD of peace-making and territory-sharing? Come ON!

    I think Israel is going to become a lot smaller and more crowded soon. So watch out for emigration for all those new babies.

  16. ahhiyawa
    November 26, 2012, 10:19 am

    Imagination? Delusional is more apt.

  17. Mooser
    November 26, 2012, 11:20 am

    “How Israelis imagine their future”

    Who cares? The only thing Zionism ever imagimes is how to get away with it.
    Call me when the Israelis cannot imagine any future, and maybe we will see some progress. In the meantime there are others whose emotional wellp-being matters much more to me. Yes, criminals often have bad moments, when they ‘imagine’ they will be caught, held to account, and punished.

  18. American
    November 26, 2012, 11:25 am

    ”EU looks to compile blacklist barring entry to ‘known violent’ Israeli settlers
    EU committee of Middle East experts recommends move in response to a report on settler violence showing their increasing strength and impunity.”

    link to haaretz.com

    I continue to be amazed why the EU even bothers with their little punishments that have absolutely no effect on Israel…while they reward Israel on with the other hand by letting it into EU and world organizations as if it’s not a terrorist state.

    |

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      November 26, 2012, 3:12 pm

      Exactly. And I suppose the ‘known violent settlers’ would be those who have been convicted by the Israeli authorities. Bit of a joke, considering that it’s well known that they collude in ‘settler’ violence. It’s all part and parcel of the grand plan of making Palestine unlivable for the native people.

      As for the EU, it’s sad to see how their position has drawn ever closer to that of the US, even as disgust for Israel grows among ordinary people in Europe, and everywhere else.

  19. Annie Robbins
    November 26, 2012, 12:48 pm

    i have heard of this phenomena before, pregnant israeli mothers as vessels for future soldiers. but to have it confirmed like this is weird.

    • Mooser
      November 26, 2012, 1:40 pm

      “i have heard of this phenomena before, pregnant israeli mothers as vessels for future soldiers. but to have it confirmed like this is weird.”

      Yes, in Israeli Hebrew it’s called Kraft durch Freude .

  20. chinese box
    November 27, 2012, 9:53 am

    LOL @ Mooser

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