Ben Rhodes says ‘there’s no more difficult issue in the world’ than Israel/Palestine conflict

Just caught this. Ben Rhodes, Obama’s foreign policy guru and deputy national security advisor, in a press gaggle with reporters last week on Air Force One:

“And the fact of the matter is, there’s no more difficult issue in the world.  There’s a reason why it has not been solved for decades.  But its importance is indisputable to U.S. interest, to Israel’s interest and security, to the Palestinian interest in achieving an independent state.”

Full context:
 

Q    How optimistic are you that Secretary Kerry is making progress in the Middle East versus sort of acting on his own hopes that there will be progress without evidence that there really is?
 
MR. RHODES:  Well, first of all, Secretary Kerry has been very active in the Middle East at the direction of the President.  When the President went to Israel and met with Israeli and Palestinian leaders, gave a speech in Jerusalem that touched upon the importance of making peace, he then signaled that Secretary Kerry would take the lead on this issue for the administration going forward.
 
And the fact of the matter is, there’s no more difficult issue in the world.  There’s a reason why it has not been solved for decades.  But its importance is indisputable to U.S. interest, to Israel’s interest and security, to the Palestinian interest in achieving an independent state.
 
And what Secretary Kerry has been able to do over the course of the last several weeks is methodically work with both parties to try to bring them closer together so that if they get into a negotiation, it can deal with the core, fundamental issues.  And so the point here is what can be done so that if the parties do come back into talks, there’s a chance that those can succeed and that we know that they’re focused on the final status issues that need to be addressed for there to be a resolution.  And so we want to make sure that work is done before you would have that type of formal negotiation, and that’s what he’s been doing.  And as he indicated yesterday, he believes that the parties have come much closer together, that they have reached, through their discussions with him, a better understanding of what would have to inform talks between Israelis and Palestinians, but he’s going to keep at it.  He’ll be returning to the region in the near future.
 
Q    Are Abbas and Netanyahu going to meet?
 
MR. RHODES:  I will leave that to them to announce.  I think right now the focus, though, is to figure out a way not just for them to meet, but to make sure that any negotiation addresses final status issues so that it has the potential to actually solve this very protracted issue.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Israel/Palestine

{ 114 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Woody Tanaka says:

    It is “difficult.” It’s difficult because the US enables the zionists in their quest for the destruction of Palestine and the ethnic cleansing of its people. If Rhodes and his boss weren’t puppets for AIPAC, they might find a way to solve that “difficult” issue.

  2. gingershot says:

    The ‘difficulty’ of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process is all Israeli spin because she can’t find an outcome she likes that will let her steal all of Palestine

    It’s the same ‘difficulty’ of getting blood out of a turnip

    It’s time to cook the turnip up and eat it

  3. Karl Dubhe says:

    “There’s a reason why it has not been solved for decades.”

    Why didn’t the reporter follow up with the obvious question asking him to identify that reason? If it really is a singular thing that is holding it up (I know, it’s not) then solving the problem should be easy as making good pea soup.

  4. American says:

    “There’s a reason why it has not been solved for decades.”‘>>>>>

    And we all know what that is—-US Zionist and their many political pressure orgs and activties in the US.
    That’s it’s, all the other claptrap surrounding I/P is just claptrap.

    The ‘solution’ to Israel and I/P has always been completely obvious and simple.
    If Israel wants to remain as a Jewish state it must withdraw to the exact territory UN Res 181 allocated to it and live up to all the other conditions of 181 which would mean restoring to any Palestines and/ or their descendents any property confiscated in the Nabaka.

  5. talknic says:

    Adhering to the law isn’t difficult. Tomorrow, with the stroke of a pen, Israel could stop its 65 years of creating illegal facts on the ground and start dealing with how to repatriate all those Israeli citizens now living in non-Israeli territory.

  6. DavidK says:

    Norman Finklestein makes this point in one of his books that Zionists like to say the conflict is so hopelessly complex to the point of being insoluble, but like the Gordian knot, the solution is ridiculously simple. 1) Equal rights for all in Israel proper and the occupied territories, 2) Pay reparations to all the the indigenous people who lost land and property since 1948 and 3) any foreign Jews who don’t like this move back to eastern Europe or Brooklyn where you came from!

  7. The reason the Israel/Palestine problem has not been solved is simply that powerful Jews in the US have prevented a resolution of the dispute. Fair statement?

    • American says:

      @ James

      “The reason the Israel/Palestine problem has not been solved is simply that powerful Jews in the US have prevented a resolution of the dispute. Fair statement”>>>>

      Imo that is 100% correct in regard to I/P.
      And US capitulation to Zionist/lsrael applies to some other issues and events in the ME….but not all of them.
      However If we dont distingush between different US actions re ME we come across as the same kind of hasbara simpletons or liars as those who claim I/P is a US colony and Israel is just the US workhorse in the ME carrying out the US will..

      • @American – - I agree there are other powerful forces at work in determining US policy in the Middle East.
        And sometimes, the Israel lobby in general takes a position not necessarly favored by Israeli gov’t.

  8. Citizen says:

    The analogy is to the issue regarding US immigration policy and illegals pouring over the border from Mexico all these years, with one amnesty past, and another begging now, with nothing changed in between. The simple fact there is that the US government had one official policy, and a second de facto policy–never enforcing existing US law. It’s a fact that US big business has exploited the illegal Mexican immigrants for decades, both at the expense of those immigrants (still making more money than they could at home), and US workers, who won’t work for such pitiful wages–it’s not the demeaning work, it’s the wages paid. Very few humans care about what they do for work so long as they get paid enough to have the basics in life with just a little extra to spare. The I-P situation is no more complicated. The US official policy has been at most, de jure the settlements are wrong, and at least de facto an obstacle to peace. The US government has handed itself off to Big corporation profits, and as well, to big Zionist benefits. The USA ruling class badly needs some Depends.
    Meanwhile, the bulk of us beneath it just keep getting shat upon.

  9. What blabber ‘n smoke. As pointed out here, it is not complex. The solution has been made available for decades, but Israel and its chief apologist have a vested interest in talking up how ‘difficult’ it is, how ‘painful’ concessions are blah blah. And of course, if a solution looks close, they can always choose some violence to stall it in its tracks. This is camouflage, deliberate obfuscation in order to give cover to the planned, ongoing dismantling of the indigenous people and their resources. Ethnocide by slow, meticulous degrees of strangulation and dispossession. This kind of wringing of hands whilst doing absolutely nothing, demanding nothing of Israel which openly opposes any solutions other than its own, is feeble hypocrisy and quite nauseating to watch. It is an excuse to do nothing serious. Meanwhile Kerry is pleading for a tiny concession from Israel which will merely briefly slow down settlement building, on his knees begging for a few square inches of the camouflage net which he can triumphantly take back to his boss, and declare “Look, they have given us some holes to disguise ourselves with. We must reward them with more billion dollar arms deals and unending subsidies for their industries, their welfare and their wealthy citizens”.

  10. mondonut says:

    Does Mr. Rhodes know that there are at least half a dozen people at this blog that have it all figured out?

    • Philip Weiss says:

      Touche. But you’re selling us short. I’d say 30 or 40

    • It’s not this blog. The solutions have been on the table for decades. People here are simply pointing it out, and refusing to fall for the carefully promulgated mythology beloved of the lobby. It would require serious commitment and an independent stance by the US, both of which have been successfully neutered.

      • mondonut says:

        justicewillprevail says: It’s not this blog. The solutions have been on the table for decades.
        ============================================
        Au contraire. Unless of course you mean those plans whereby Israel is expected to either commit national suicide or succumb to forceful intervention.

        • Cliff says:

          Israel keeps expanding Jewish colonies. So it could be potentially committing national suicide when all the Palestinians have left is a tiny 1% island of checkpoints and IDF soldiers and PA goons policing them on their reservations.

          Don’t act like poor poor Israel is being asked to do the impossible.

          You stole an entire country from the indigenous population and act like a victim when those you wronged want justice.

        • Citizen says:

          No national suicide is contemplated, merely giving the Palestinian people the same rights as Jews in the region, and the same sovereignty and power of self-determination. Equal opportunity, whatever the solution plan–it’s a well established American value, and value of all Western countries in the 21st Century. No forceful intervention, just employ the full range of carrots and sticks the US, UN, EU, etc have at their disposal, and do employ with other problem states that are roadblocks to progress of the world’s human community.

        • Nobody is asking or expecting ‘national suicide’. Your implied answer is that Israel can only live by violence, terror and threats and not have democracy or universal human rights. Only by hiding behind such melodramatic hysterical claims can you refuse to make a just settlement and carry on waging war. A classic boilerplate response.

        • mondonut says:

          justicewillprevail says: Nobody is asking or expecting ‘national suicide’.
          =====================================================
          That is entirely false, just read the comments on this very page. Expecting Israel to go away is a dominant opinion at Mondoweiss. Every person who demands both the 1ss and the RoR intends for Israel to be dismantled.

        • mondonut says:

          Cliff says: Don’t act like poor poor Israel is being asked to do the impossible. You stole an entire country from the indigenous population and act like a victim when those you wronged want justice.
          ===============================================
          Israel is being asked alternately to accept a 1ss/RoR solution or a 2ss/RoR solution in which they must forfeit Jerusalem and move 650,000 people.

          Israel would not survive either – which is entirely the point.

        • Shingo says:

          Au contraire. Unless of course you mean those plans whereby Israel is expected to either commit national suicide or succumb to forceful intervention.

          Giving up stolen land and ending the occupation and ending the brutalize toon if Palestinians might be a hard habit to break, just like heroin, but it’s bit suicide.

        • talknic says:

          mondonut “Unless of course you mean those plans whereby Israel is expected to either commit national suicide or succumb to forceful intervention

          Still trying to peddle your putrid propaganda. What a tiresome job.

          The only threat Israel has ever faced has been to its illegal facts on the ground in NON-Israeli territory.

          Were Israel to live up to its legal obligations for once, live within its borders for the first time in 65 years, it would render forceful intervention un-necessary and bring Israel under the protection of the UN, like Kuwait.

        • RoHa says:

          “National suicide” is a sneaky way of trying to imply that people will die when all that is being proposed is a change in political organization.

        • Shingo says:

          Israel would not survive either – which is entirely the point.

          Of course it would. Israel accepted UN194 so it clearly believed it could indeed survive without refusing return of refugees. Israel was also surviving happily without the occupied territories and Jerusalem prior to 1967.

        • Shingo says:

          That is entirely false, just read the comments on this very page.

          The comments on this very page call for Israel to return to 1967 borders and the end of occupation (within which Israel existed successfully for 20 years) and return of refugees (which Israel agree to under UN194).

          Expecting Israel to go away is a dominant opinion at Mondoweiss.

          Strop lying. You can’t even make an honest point without gross dishonesty and deceit – unless of course, you think giving up Jewish privilege is ‘national suicide’.
          Every person who demands both the 1ss and the RoR intends for Israel to be dismantled.

        • Shingo says:

          Still trying to peddle your putrid propaganda. What a tiresome job.

          What else is he gonna do? The only other option is to admit he’s wrong.

        • talknic says:

          @ mondonut“Israel is being asked alternately to accept a 1ss/RoR solution or a 2ss/RoR solution in which they must forfeit Jerusalem and move 650,000 people”

          A) Jerusalem is not Israel’s to forfeit and; B) Moving 650,000 people isn’t impossible.

          Israel would not survive either

          Twaddle.. Israel was given enough territory for every Jew on the planet. Why should the Palestinians pay for Israel’s idiocy?

        • eljay says:

          >> Unless of course you mean those plans whereby Israel is expected to either commit national suicide or succumb to forceful intervention.

          Only a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist like mondonuteee could view as “national suicide” calls for Israel:
          - to behave in a just and moral manner;
          - to be held accountable for past and ON-GOING (war) crimes;
          - to engage in sincere negotiations for a just and mutually-beneficial peace; and
          - to be a secular, democratic and egalitarian state of and for all of its citizens, equally, instead of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state.

        • Walker says:

          Israel survived just fine through 1967. It would certainly survive withdrawal from the occupied territories. In fact, that’s the only way it can survive, long-term. It can’t muscle and connive its way to long-term success on the current road, against the opinion of the rest of the world save the US. If it continues, one result may be the reduction of US influence, leaving Israel exposed.

          Israel is simply doomed if it doesn’t do the difficult thing and reconsider its policies.

        • mondonut says:

          Shingo says: Of course it would. Israel accepted UN194 so it clearly believed it could indeed survive without refusing return of refugees. Israel was also surviving happily without the occupied territories and Jerusalem prior to 1967.
          =======================================
          That is pure revisionism. Israel never agreed to accept the RoR. And no, it would not survive it they did.

        • mondonut says:

          RoHa says:“National suicide” is a sneaky way of trying to imply that people will die when all that is being proposed is a change in political organization.
          ====================================
          Nonsense. What is being proposed are that millions of hostile Palestinians be permitted to enter Israel, not as citizens, but as Palestinians who a reclaiming what is theirs. Israel would cease to exist under that arrangement and everybody knows that.

        • Shingo says:

          What is being proposed are that millions of hostile Palestinians be permitted to enter Israel, not as citizens, but as Palestinians who a reclaiming what is theirs.

          Rubbish.

          1. Of course they would have to become Israeli citizens, otherwise that wold be full blown apartheid and no one but you wants to see that.
          2. Property rights are the cornerstone of any democracy, so allowing those refugees to reclaim or be compensated for the territory that was stolen from them is perfectly reasonable.

          And no, it would not lead to Israel ceasing to exist, only Jewish privilege.

        • Shingo says:

          That is pure revisionism. Israel never agreed to accept the RoR. And no, it would not survive it they did.

          No it’s pure historical fact.

          Israel agreed to 194, which called for ROR. Simple. And yes it would survive, but not as the ethnocentric, supremacist state that you dream about.

        • Shingo says:

          Israel was given enough territory for every Jew on the planet.

          Very true, considering hat most Jews on the planet don’t want any of it.

        • eljay says:

          >> What is being proposed are that millions of … Palestinians be permitted to enter Israel, not as citizens, but as Palestinians who a[re] reclaiming what is theirs.

          Indeed.

          I wonder if mondonuteee will get in trouble for straying from the script and letting slip a bit of truth Zio-supremacists prefer to keep well-hidden.

        • @Walker – - Israel indeed is manufacturing its own problems, intentionally. Almost entire planet wants “1967″ borders for Palestine.

        • American says:

          mondonut says:
          July 11, 2013 at 9:04 am
          Shingo says: Of course it would. Israel accepted UN194 so it clearly believed it could indeed survive without refusing return of refugees. Israel was also surviving happily without the occupied territories and Jerusalem prior to 1967.
          =======================================
          That is pure revisionism. Israel never agreed to accept the RoR. And no, it would not survive it they did”

          Well then, if you cant exist within the condtions and boundaries of Res 181 then you shouldnt survive.
          In fact since UN Res181 was never even sent to the UNSC to be accepted you really arent even legitimate…you are indeed illegitimate.

          Some day the zio con game is going to crash like Madoff’s ponzi scheme and you’re going to wonder what hit you——–you could avoid that ending by moving your 600,000 settlers out of Palestine and keeping your nose out of the rest of the ME…and out of the rest of the world.

        • RoHa says:

          “Israel would cease to exist under that arrangement and everybody knows that.”

          Exactly. A change in political organization. That does not imply people dying. The word “suicide” implies people dying. The phrase “national suicide” is intended to imply that the change in political organization is as bad as the deaths of people.

        • talknic says:

          mondonut ” And no, it would not survive it they did.

          Odd. The Jewish People’s Council and Zionist Movement obviously thought otherwise when UNGA res 181 was accepted (without official reservation link to pages.citebite.com ) , when they declared and pleaded for recognition link to trumanlibrary.org and when Israel became a UN Member state (1949) automatically obliging itself to adhere to prior adopted UN/UNSC resolutions, incl UNGA res 194 (1948) .

          Under UNGA res 194 a refugee had to have actually lived in the region link to unispal.un.org (no lineal descendants ). No more could return than had left and not all left.

          Which leads to the inevitable, ubiquitous hole in your fetid olde Hasbara shown by the statement undeniably made by the Jewish People’s Council and Zionist Movement

          “WE APPEAL … to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. “

          Maybe they didn’t know at the time that Jewish forces were already razing non-Jewish villages, homes, farms. However it’s doubtful they were not aware of what the Jewish terrorist groups were up to link to nationalarchives.gov.uk .

          Maybe they were simply lying again? Maybe you’re not very good at maths?

          I’m sure you’ll be back with some other gnawed bare bone because its not in a propagandists brief to try to understand, learn, be swayed or interested in factual information, truthfulness, empathy or morality

        • talknic says:

          @ mondonut “What is being proposed are that millions of hostile Palestinians be permitted to enter Israel”

          There is no such proposal. You’ve been shown it’s twaddle on more than one occasion, yet here you are again LYING again, which is completely against the basic tenets of Judaism. Now that’s really really weird. Willing to lie for the Jewish state! Whatever will readers think.

          The Palestinian claim for RoR to Israel is under UNGA res 194 (1948). The idiotic millions figure Israel’s apologists and propagandists love so much, comes from the unrelated and irrelevant UNRWA definition which was written 12 months after UNGA res 194 and has nothing to do with final status. link to unrwa.org

          ” not as citizens, but as Palestinians who a reclaiming what is theirs”

          Like most apologists for Israel, you’ll say anything, no matter how nonsensical, untrue, ridiculous or illogical. Returnees must have been or will become citizens of the state granting return.

          ” Israel would cease to exist under that arrangement and everybody knows that”

          Anyone who is stupid enough to believe that is the arrangement But it’s not the arrangement. It is a silly nonsensical propaganda mantra that has no basis.

          The Palestinian claim for RoR to Israel is under UNGA res 194 (1948)

          You’re talking about Palestinians returning to where Israel has built its ILLEGAL ‘facts on the ground’ in “territory outside the State of Israel” ..”in Palestine” link to wp.me

          Israel is not required to recognize RoR of Palestinians to “territory outside the State of Israel” ..”in Palestine”

        • Djinn says:

          If it is not possible for Israel to exist without discriminating against people on the basis of ethnicity then it does not deserve to exist.

          If it is not possible for Israel to comply with international laws they swore to uphold then it does not deserve to exist.

          Israel and Israelis are not the same thing. Just as ending apartheid in SA did not mean pushing all non black South Africans into the sea, ending Israel’s institutionalised discrimination, land theft and occupation does not mean that Israelis are under any threat. Unless of course they feel threatened by others having equal rights.

        • lyn117 says:

          “… Palestinians who a reclaiming what is theirs. ”

          I am so glad you admit that most of Israel actually belongs to the Palestinians.

          As far as Israel ceasing to exist, a state which can only exist by denying equal and full rights to its indigenous population (or any segment of its population) perhaps does not deserve to exist.

          If Palestinians are hostile, perhaps they wouldn’t be if Israel didn’t expel them from their land, bomb, torture and imprison them. And BTW UN194 specified that Israel should re-admit anyone willing to live at peace with their neighbors.

        • talknic says:

          @ mondonut“… the comments on this very page. Expecting Israel to go away is a dominant opinion at Mondoweiss. “

          Example….. quote … verbatim … thx

          “Every person who demands both the 1ss and the RoR intends for Israel to be dismantled”

          Israel’s actions are leading to a 1ss. Even without RoR there would be a majority of non-Jews in such a state. Unless of course Israel illegally cleanses the extra non-Israeli territories it intends to acquire of non-Jews.

          The Palestinians claim to RoR to Israel is under UNGA res 194 ( link to unispal.un.org no lineal descendants and return only to the territory that became the State of Israel as the Israeli Government asked to be recognized 1948 link to wp.me ).

          UNGA res 194 on which the Palestinians claim RoR, does not include any of the non-Israeli territories in which Israel has created its illegal ‘facts on the ground’.

          The Palestinians have no need to ask Israel for RoR to non-Israeli territory.

          The only dismantling needed is of Israel’s illegal facts on the ground, as required by law, negotiations or not.

  11. seafoid says:

    This crap about the world’s most insoluble problem is well past its sell by date. [...]
    I think it’s because the elite know that they don’t have a leg to stand on. The notion that Israel is forever is a psychological truth with no basis in reality.

  12. ahadhaadam says:

    “No solution” says the oppressor to the oppressed.

  13. just says:

    This is totally “solveable”.

    Our enabling of the Israelis and our hypocrisy toward I/P is, however, a major reason why we are mistrusted, disliked (even hated) by many all over the world. $$$ isn’t going to fix anything in Palestine and for Palestinians. Neither is talking to, holding hands of, or tolerating the status quo vis a vis the Israelis — all the visits in the world by John Kerry or others is just a waste of taxpayers’ dollars, time and energy.

    Our policy has to change — starting with telling the truth, withholding $$$, exercising our vote in the UN properly and with honor. (No more blanket vetoes for the Zionists)

    • mondonut says:

      just says: This is totally “solveable”.
      ================================================
      Then solve it. Solve Jerusalem, refugees, borders, security, water and air rights to the satisfaction of BOTH parties. But do not bother with any of the various schemes in which Israel ceases to exist or that requires military force to achieve.

      • Shingo says:

        Then solve it.

        Solving it would require removing all the compromised and corrupted members of Congress who are beholden to AIPAC

        • mondonut says:

          Shingo says:Solving it would require removing all the compromised and corrupted members of Congress who are beholden to AIPAC
          =====================================
          That sounds difficult. So now you agree with Ben Rhodes.

        • Shingo says:

          That sounds difficult. So now you agree with Ben Rhodes.

          No it isn’t and no I don’t. Simply pass laws that force AIPAC to register as a foreign lobby so that all their activities become transparent. That way, anyone who accepts money from AIPAC members will be exposed as corrupt.

          Simple.

        • talknic says:

          mondonut “That sounds difficult. So now you agree with Ben Rhodes”

          By your comment .. Ben Rhodes considers members of Congress to be compromised and corrupted and beholden to AIPAC.

          Well done…. Keep wading around in the elephant poop.

      • mondonut- I agree that RoR is something that Israel will not accept and those who expect Israel to sign on to RoR are not on the same page of reality as you and Ben Rhodes. On the other hand, I’m not sure how many settlers are able to stay in their homes according to the proposal that Abbas made to Olmert, and to expect Abbas to move in the direction of greater land swaps given the fact that Hamas opposes any land swaps is not on the same page of reality as Ben Rhodes. Those who see a 2SS that is more pro Palestinian than Abbas’s proposals or more pro Israel than Olmert’s proposals are proposing a 2SS that will not happen.

        • talknic says:

          @ yonah fredman “..those who expect Israel to sign on to RoR are not on the same page of reality as you and Ben Rhodes”

          What page of reality? The only threat to Israel in respect to RoR is to Israel’s 65 years of ILLEGAL ‘facts on the ground’, none of which are in Israeli territory. link to wp.me

          The UNGA res 194 definition of a refugee ( link to unispal.un.org no lineal descendants ) , the life expectancy of a Palestinian in 1948/1950 (about 45 yrs ) and simple maths (65 years has passed) tell us that the vast majority of Palestinians who had RoR to what became the State of Israel 1948, are long dead.

          ” I’m not sure how many settlers are able to stay in their homes according to the proposal that Abbas made to Olmert, and to expect Abbas to move in the direction of greater land swaps”

          Uh huh. You expect the Palestinians to swap greater amounts of Palestinian territory with Israel for Palestinian territory, so Israel can keep Palestinian territory. Cute. How about Israel swap some of its territory? It has never offered.

          “given the fact that Hamas opposes any land swaps”

          Fair enough. The Palestinians have absolutely no legal obligation to forgo any of their legal rights.

          ” not on the same page of reality as Ben Rhodes

          Er… a page from the book of denialist stupidity 101, is not reality.

        • Shingo says:

          I agree that RoR is something that Israel will not accept and those who expect Israel to sign on to RoR are not on the same page of reality as you and Ben Rhodes

          Rhodes is a lying scum bag, who bends to the will of Israel like his employer in public, and who in private, knows full well that the lobby and the corruption of Washington is the problem.

          It’s comical to hear apologists claim that ROR is so unacceptable when Israel has already accepted in when they accepted UNG194. It just goes to prove that Israel cannot be trusted to keep it;’s word with reagard to anything.

        • mondonut says:

          talknic says: The UNGA res 194 definition of a refugee ( link to unispal.un.org no lineal descendants ) , the life expectancy of a Palestinian in 1948/1950 (about 45 yrs ) and simple maths (65 years has passed) tell us that the vast majority of Palestinians who had RoR to what became the State of Israel 1948, are long dead.
          ================================
          As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, your interpretation of the RoR is meaningless. It is not the RoR the Palestinians claim nor is it one to which they would agree.

        • Shingo says:

          As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, your interpretation of the RoR is meaningless.

          Why is it meaningless? Just because you don;t like it doesn’t make it meaningless.

          It is not the RoR the Palestinians claim nor is it one to which they would agree.

          Based on what evidence? Oh that’s right, you have none.

        • talknic says:

          mondonut “As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, your interpretation of the RoR is meaningless. It is not the RoR the Palestinians claim nor is it one to which they would agree”

          A) As has been pointed out to you repeatedly the UNRWA definition written in 1949, cannot possibly be a part of UNGA res 194 which was written in 1948

          B) The Palestinian claim for RoR to Israel IS under UNGA res 194. By making their claim by it they agree to it.

          C) The Palestinians have no need to ask Israel for RoR to “territory outside the State of Israel” ..”in Palestine” link to wp.me

          The only so called ‘threat’ is to Israel’s illegal ‘facts on the ground’ in “territory outside the State of Israel” ..”in Palestine”

        • piotr says:

          I would apply the same argument to refugees from the failed rebellion of Bar Kochba. Given that not a single one lived for more than 1000 years (with one possible exception, but he is not in Israel) …

      • talknic says:

        @ mondonut “Then solve it”

        The ball is in Israel’s court. Has been for 65 years. The solution has been obvious and stated by the UN/UNSC time and again.

        Tomorrow Israel could stop its illegal ‘facts on the ground’, adhere to the law and start rectifying the problems it has foolishly created for itself.

        “Solve Jerusalem, refugees, borders, security, water and air rights to the satisfaction of BOTH parties”

        Adherence to the law would solve Jerusalem, refugees, borders, security, water and air rights.

        As for “BOTH parties”. The Palestinians only ask for their legal rights. Israel is the only party dis-satisfied with adhering to its legal obligations.

        ” do not bother with any of the various schemes in which Israel ceases to exist or that requires military force to achieve”

        Were Israel to adhere to its legal obligations, it would neither cease to exist nor would it require any military force to achieve, except perhaps to repatriate hundreds of thousands of duped and rightly angry Israeli civilians currently under the illusion that they are living in Israeli territory.

        • mondonut says:

          talknic says:Were Israel to adhere to its legal obligations, it would neither cease to exist nor would it require any military force to achieve, except perhaps to repatriate hundreds of thousands of duped and rightly angry Israeli civilians currently under the illusion that they are living in Israeli territory.
          =========================================
          So that is how you would “solve” the problem. Your proposal is that Israel retreat to its 1948 borders and place itself under the protection of the UN.

          Next.

        • Shingo says:

          Your proposal is that Israel retreat to its 1948 borders and place itself under the protection of the UN.

          Don’t be a liar. The PLO has already ceded any claim to the territory between the 1048 and 1993 borders.

        • ritzl says:

          @mondonut So that is how you would “solve” the problem. Your proposal is that Israel retreat to its 1948 borders and place itself under the protection of the UN.

          And therein lies the opening position/basis for an actual, meaningful negotiation. Israel’s opening position would be, of course, what it is today, tiny, disconnected, dependent bantustans for 2.5M Palestinians and the rest of the WB for Jewish-Israelis. Sounds like a balanced contention and discussable.

        • talknic says:

          mondonut
          “So that is how you would “solve” the problem” …….. “Your proposal is that Israel retreat to its 1948 borders”

          Nice try you poor deluded denialist. I used it there to point out the stupidity of the smelly little propaganda poop ‘Israel would cease to exist’.

          I’ve said often and clearly enough and YOU HAVE READ & ANSWERED TO IT link to mondoweiss.net : that the only legal way out out Israel’s illegal ‘facts on the ground’ situation is to plea bargain with the Palestinians while Israel can still convince the US to maintain the veto vote in the UNSC

          Knowing where Israel’s actual boundaries lay and exposing the blatant lies perpetuated by successive Israeli Governments & the likes of yourself, is essential to understanding why there are so many UNSC resolutions reminding Israel of its legal obligations under binding Law, the UN Charter and relevant binding resolutions and; how a just solution might be reached in good faith. An element completely missing from your repertoire

          Israeli propaganda guarantees ongoing animosity, delusion and misunderstanding from which spring racism, bigotry, more lies, more excuses, no justice and no peace for the Jewish people’s homeland state

      • Djinn says:

        Sorry but only one party is acting illegally, that would be YOURS. It is not at all necessary for the outcome to be to the satisfaction of all parties when one party is acting in a criminal manner.

        Israel has NO water/air/security rights outside it’s own declared borders, ie those that existed when Israel became a UN member and agreed to abide by all it’s rules.

        The fact that Palestinians are even willing to consider a deal based on 67 lines means they’ve already compromised way more than they have to.

        Sadly nothing except the permanent subjugation of Palestinians will ever be accepted by Israel, a position they have demonstrated time and time again.

  14. RoHa says:

    “But do not bother with any of the various schemes in which Israel ceases to exist”

    Since the existence of Israel is the problem, this requirement excludes the possibility of a solution.

    • mondonut says:

      RoHa says:Since the existence of Israel is the problem, this requirement excludes the possibility of a solution.
      ======================
      Thanks for adding that. Some commentators are peddling the nonsense that nobody expects or wants Israel to go away. Thanks again for clearing that up.

      • @Mondonut – - All Arab countries agree to accept Israel within 1967 borders. Israel’s own stupidity is what brings the entire enterprise into some question. And Israel’s own stupidity is encouraged by the US Congress, year after year after year.

        • mondonut says:

          James Canning says: @Mondonut – – All Arab countries agree to accept Israel within 1967 borders.
          ============================================
          First of all the reference was to other commentators, not Arab countries. And as for your spin, you are wrong again, they do not. There is not a single Arab country that is on record as willing to accept Israel without MILLIONS of Palestinians first being permitted to enter Israel.

        • Shingo says:

          And as for your spin, you are wrong again, they do not.

          Not yet, because Israel refuses to agree to the offer, but 22 Arab states have signed the agreement.

          There is not a single Arab country that is on record as willing to accept Israel without MILLIONS of Palestinians first being permitted to enter Israel.

          Lie. The Peace Initiative refers to a just settlement of the refugee problem. That includes the option to pay compensation.

        • talknic says:

          @ mondonut “There is not a single Arab country that is on record as willing to accept Israel without MILLIONS of Palestinians first being permitted to enter Israel”

          Quote them, verbatim. Anything but the continual unsubstantiated drivel you serve up here (and I dare say elsewhere)

          Go ahead put up some evidence .. thx … I’ll wait …. link to talknic.files.wordpress.com

          Meanwhile

          b. Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194. link to guardian.co.uk

          UNGA res 194 is only for people whose normal place of residence link to unispal.un.org was in the territory of the Jewish state as it was recognized at 00:01 May 1948 (ME time ) link to trumanlibrary.org

          So as they say (whoever ‘they’ are) , put up or shut up…. you can … yes?

  15. just says:

    Jerusalem ‘belongs’ to all the world.
    Israel has undeclared nukes. Israel has ROR,— the indigenous Palestinians have nothing.

  16. yrn says:

    “Touche. But you’re selling us short. I’d say 30 or 40″
    Well…… count you will not get to this amount.
    50% out of those want the Israelis first second and third generation out of Israel.
    that’s one great solution Israel will accept.
    some here think that the Zionist are looking to expand Israel and take over parts of Syria Lebanon and Jordan, so what solution do they have ?

    This is totally “solveable”. sure ……………..

  17. just says:

    mondonut– I can tell you how to solve it in the next hour, but it is up for you and yours to do. By the way, you don’t seem to want to solve it with all of your preconditions and maintenance of the status quo………….continued theft and oppression from and of the indigenous semitic Palestinians.

    “Then solve it. Solve Jerusalem, refugees, borders, security, water and air rights to the satisfaction of BOTH parties. But do not bother with any of the various schemes in which Israel ceases to exist or that requires military force to achieve.”

    They don’t need a Jewish only ‘democracy’ or enclave in the ME. Stop oppressing and torturing people and you will be happily surprised. Your hysteria is wearing thin– nobody has advocated that Israel should cease to exist. Israel must learn to be a decent neighbor, and live in the present.

    • Philip Weiss says:

      I’ve always wondered what Jew would want their child to die to preserve a Jewish state? If I had a child, I’d much rather the state be transformed than my child die for it. I think this must be David Grossman’s deep philosophical problem. He cant believe that a militarist state based on ethnosupremacy was worth the loss of his beloved son.
      Which is not to say that the transformation is a walk in the park. As they say, it’s a tough neighborhood: Emerging Democracy. But the alternative, a Jewish discriminatory state disliked by its neighbors, is simply a recipe for unending animosity

      • Shingo says:

        But the alternative, a Jewish discriminatory state disliked by its neighbors, is simply a recipe for unending animosity

        Sometimes, I can’t help but wonder if that’s how the mondonuts of this would want to keep it – which is why the Arab Peace Initiative was so roundly rejected. The prospect for peace is the biggest threat to the Israeli identity that seems rely on conflict to sustain itself.

        That’s definitely what went through my mind when I saw footage of Israelis with their heads down or their hands cupping their faces after the Iranian elections. The election of a reformer/moderate was their greatest fear.

        Insane I know.

        • @Shingo – - And let’s remember the moron in the White House ignored the 2002 Saudi peace plan. Thanks partly to his grossly incompetent National Security Advisor.

      • mondonut says:

        Philip Weiss says: I’ve always wondered what Jew would want their child to die to preserve a Jewish state?
        ==========================================
        Surely nobody WANTS their child to die. But I am sure there are thousands of parents who are quite proud of the ultimate sacrifice their families made in fighting for the creation and preservation of a Jewish state.

        • talknic says:

          @ mondonut “I am sure there are thousands of parents who are quite proud of the ultimate sacrifice their families made in fighting for the creation and preservation of a Jewish state:”

          Problem. Since being given, completely gratis, the ‘territory’ for a Jewish state, its military forces have been according to the Israeli Government May 22nd 1948 in their statement to the UNSC, in territories “outside the state of Israel” .. “in Palestine”

          Successive Israeli Governments, none of whom have been legally elected under a constitution according to the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, may have convinced Israelis into believing they are preserving the Jewish state. However when one checks the record, the Jewish state is in breach of International Law, the UN Charter and relevant Geneva Conventions, because of its activities as the Occupying Power over territories “outside the state of Israel” .. “in Palestine”.

          Successive illegitimately elected Israeli Governments have purposefully encouraged and assisted Israeli citizens to contravene GC IV by illegally settling in territories “outside the state of Israel” .. “in Palestine”

          Ask yourself what kind of successive governments would purposefully encourage its civilian population to break a convention adopted to protect all civilians, including its own from the likelihood of violence expected when one belligerently occupies another people.

          Furthermore, after having purposefully duped its citizens into illegally breaching a convention adopted to protect them, what kind of government would then illegally sell its citizens land in territories “outside the state of Israel” .. “in Palestine” ?

          Far from being sacrificed to preserve the Jewish state, they have been sacrificed to preserve and expand Israel’s illegal facts on the ground “outside the state of Israel” .. “in Palestine”. There has never been a war in Israel. The UNSC resolutions on the Question of Palestine call for “peace in Palestine”, not Israel.

          After 65 years Israel’s expansive illegal facts on the ground have put it in a position where protected only by the US UNSC veto vote, it cannot now even afford to adhere to the law, which would see the Jewish state bankrupted paying rightful reparations as it tried to resettle hundreds of thousands of illegal Israeli settlers back in Israeli territory.

          The ONLY way out of Israel’s self created illegal bind, is to negotiate a plea bargain settlement with the Palestinians who have absolutely no legal obligation to forgo any of their legal rights in any negotiations. Yet every generous offer by the Palestinians, asking far less than their legal rights, has been met by Israeli Governments purposefully expanding ILLEGAL settlements, dragging Israeli citizens further into the mire. What sort of government does that to its people?

          So despite all the well intended warnings, the lying and denying and putrid propaganda peddling continue. You must be so proud!

      • yrn says:

        Ask yourself a more fundamental question.
        “I’ve always wondered what Jew would die to preserve his Jewish religion or Identity?
        Your assumption and wondering that someone want his child to die to preserve anything is sick, if that’s your way of thinking, your understanding of the Israeli society is Zero, meaning you can visit Israel a Million times, but you prefer to stay in your square closed way of thinking, if it bothered you so much, how come you never asked after so many times you have been to Israel? or your connections are only with Palestinians as Israelis are not your cup of tea.

        Why did so many Jews Die in order to preserve their Jewish Religion or Identity all over history.
        You are not the one to answer, as for you it has no meaning, as for you being Jewish can change by your social,economical interest.
        You will never understand people like David Grossman , as you lack the basic understanding of being a Jew in Israel.

        • yrn says:

          oops I forgot, in this blog you cannot comment on what GOD Philip Weiss writes….. as it’s the holy scripture.

        • Shingo says:

          You will never understand people like David Grossman , as you lack the basic understanding of being a Jew in Israel.

          Many Jews outside Israel have the same problem. It’s difficult to embrace apartheid, ethnic cleansing, occupation and oppression of another population.

        • yrn says:

          “Many Jews outside Israel have the same problem”
          Speak for yourself…… I don;t expect from an Ignorant like you to understand David Grossman.
          but I bet you share the same sick idea, that any human would want their child to die to preserve anything…… is it also something Many Jews outside Israel think or is it people like Philip Weiss and you share this sick rational.

        • talknic says:

          @ yrn Seems you’re wrong… link to mondoweiss.net

        • Shingo says:

          but I bet you share the same sick idea, that any human would want their child to die to preserve anything

          Take a look in the mirror – that’s the same sick idea that Israeli prime minister, Golda Meir, perpetuated about the Palestinians.

      • Ludwig says:

        Sounds like blackmail to me. “Abandon your beliefs or we kills your children.”

      • homingpigeon says:

        I was just looking for a place to put my comments and you took the words out of my mouth already!

        To elaborate further, if people have internalized the totalitarian concept of the national state being the people, “destruction” of the state implies harming the people who live in that state. People who recognize the national state as being pustulent cankerous treif and talk about destroying it inadvertently frighten those who perceive the state as the people. The use of “transform” is much better than “destroy” in this regard. I would emphasize that that those enamored of the national state are the ones getting their children killed for it. Those who would like to transform it into a multicultural country with equality for all would sincerely like for those children to live.

        Oh and Mondonut Habibi, you’ve read the comments long enough to know that there are some people who accept Israel but reject the ’67 conquests and argue for the two state solution and there are others who don’t. I politely confess having no interest in either a Palestinian state or an Israeli state and work for the transformation of both.

      • talknic says:

        @ Philip Weiss

        I’ve often wondered why any Jewish person would go against the basic common sense tenets of Judaism in their attempts to justify the Jewish state’s illegal actions as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territory. Yet they do, purposefully, over and over. From low grade propagandists to persons in the high position
        link to wp.me Peres
        link to wp.me Netanyahu
        link to wp.me Professor Ruth Lapidoth

        Even establishments supposed to further Jewish interests act contrary to the basic tenets of Judaism
        link to wp.me & link to wp.me

      • Phil- You’ve put your finger on one essence: (modern) Zionism was born in Eastern Europe ca. 1900 and would never have been born in America ca. 1900 or ca. 2013.

        The situation of the Middle East ca. 2013 and forward should certainly be uppermost in the minds of those who want to build a future better than the present and past.

        Those who sacrifice their sons are hostage to the policies of the government and army. But many individual Israeli Jewish citizens believe that the army-less-ness of the Jews was a crime of negligence (of fathers against their children, of leaders against their followers) at various times in our past and therefore a Jewish army is the one certain demand of the Jewish present.

        The wide ranging change that you are proposing are not on the minds of the mainstream of Israeli Jewish society.

      • jon s says:

        Phil, No sane person “wants” their child to die , for any reason. The question is whether there is any ideal, any cause , for which you would be willing to give your life , or accept the sacrifice of a loved-one. As an American , would you be willing to put yourself in danger, to risk your life, to help defend your country, if it was under attack? Think of the Americans who were willing to don a uniform, put their lives on the line, to fight for independence from the British, to preserve the Union and abolish slavery in the Civil War, to fight Hitler and the Japanese in WW2.
        So it is that thousands of Israelis have been willing to give their lives for the ideal of establishing, and defending , the state. They didn’t think of themselves as fighting for a “militarist state based on ethnosupremacy”, any more than Americans in WW2 saw themselves as fighting for a society based on racism and segregationism. David Grossman can speak for himself -and does so , eloquently-as to how he regards the loss of his son . Most Israelis regard such sacrifice as the price to be paid to preserve the ideal of a Jewish State.

        • seafoid says:

          The ideal of a jewish state is so much more alluring than the grubby reality of Israel. You can only have a state if you renounce the whole point of being jewish. Leviticus must be turning in his grave.

        • Citizen says:

          @ jon s
          But eventually Americans woke up and tried to right the wrongs their ancestors had allowed, and we’re still working on it. Given 2 World Wars, Nuremberg, Geneva, etc;, isn’t it about time Israel move beyond its colonial & lebensraum project? It can start by officially acknowledging the #Nakba. Y should anyone acknowledge Israel before Israel does that?

          More than 20% of the total US population died in the Civil war, 750,000 people, and the maimed were even more. link to nytimes.com

          How many Jewish Israelis have died defending the basic human rights of Palestinians in Israel and the Israeli OT? What percentage?

        • jon s says:

          Seafoid, when ideals turn into reality, there’s always a gap between the original ideal and the “grubby ” implementation. That’s life.
          It almost looks like you think that the whole point of being Jewish is to not have a state.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          ” Think of the Americans who were willing to don a uniform, put their lives on the line, to fight for independence from the British, to preserve the Union and abolish slavery in the Civil War, to fight Hitler and the Japanese in WW2.”

          Who are you to insult those people by comparing them to the people who fight for your bigot state?? The people who fight for israel are just like those who fought for the Confederacy and Nazi Germany, and are not those who fought against those states.

        • Shingo says:

          It almost looks like you think that the whole point of being Jewish is to not have a state.

          Since when is the point of being Jewish to have one?

    • mondonut says:

      just says: mondonut– I can tell you how to solve it in the next hour, but it is up for you and yours to do. They don’t need a Jewish only ‘democracy’… – nobody has advocated that Israel should cease to exist.
      =======================================
      Then please do, please solve it within the next hour. Create two states living side by side with agreed borders.

      And BTW your first sentence is a complete cope out, throwing out proposals the Israelis will not agree to is not “solving” anything. I can just as easily propose something that heavily favors the Israelis, and then declare it is up for you and yours to do.

      • Shingo says:

        And BTW your first sentence is a complete cope out, throwing out proposals the Israelis will not agree to is not “solving” anything

        Throwing out, as in including or dismissing?

        I can just as easily propose something that heavily favors the Israelis, and then declare it is up for you and yours to do.

        That’s what Israel has been doing since the 1900s. You hasbratas have called it Palestinian rejectionism.

      • talknic says:

        @ mondonut ” throwing out proposals the Israelis will not agree to is not “solving” anything.”

        A) Israel failing to adhere to the law solves nothing and has created more Red Heifer sh*t to wallow in
        B) Israel has rejected EVERY effort anyone has ever made towards peace

  18. SQ Debris says:

    The word “difficult” is a lot like the word “complicated,” both can be used as either a verb or an adjective. The I/P conflict is complicated (past perfect verb) by those who ground their arguments in ethnic exceptionalism. You can see it in statements like “Israel would not survive” Palestinian refugees exercising their inalienable rights.
    Yes, it will be “difficult” to persuade products of Israel’s education system that being born Jewish is no different than being born Palestinian. The mechanisms of state will be “difficult” through resisting rational change. George Wallace was “difficult” too, but in the end Alabama became a 1p1v state.

    • mondonut says:

      SQ Debris says: …Palestinian refugees exercising their inalienable rights.
      … born Jewish is no different than being born Palestinian.
      =================================================
      Sorry but the Palestinian refugees (you should define this) do not have an inalienable right to reside in Israel. And being born Israeli is quite a bit different from being born non-Israeli, insofar as which rights are available within Israel.

      • Shingo says:

        Sorry but the Palestinian refugees (you should define this) do not have an inalienable right to reside in Israel.

        Yes hey do. The fact hat Israel denies then that right doesn’t change the fact they have a right o return to heir own property.

      • talknic says:

        @ mondonut “Sorry but the Palestinian refugees (you should define this) do not have an inalienable right to reside in Israel”

        It has been defined for you time and again. Here its again for you to ignore again link to unispal.un.org Only purposeful propagandists and fools ignore irrefutable evidence

        Those from the territory that became Israel DO have an inalienable right to return to where they lived. Their life expectancy was 45 when they left. It is 65 years later and very few have lived beyond their life expectancy. They are not a threat to the demographics of Israel.

        “And being born Israeli is quite a bit different from being born non-Israeli, insofar as which rights are available within Israel

        A) Define within Israel.

        B) Not in respect to RoR (International Law), which is not the Law of Return (Israeli state law). International Law trumps, especially when a state declares it will adhere to International Law.

        C) You can’t help yourself. This is what was said ” born Jewish is no different than being born Palestinian”

        Thanks again for showing folk that Israeli apologists simple cannot be trusted. Bravo.

        • mondonut says:

          talknic says: It has been defined for you time and again. Here its again for you to ignore again link to unispal.un.org Only purposeful propagandists and fools ignore irrefutable evidence

          Those from the territory that became Israel DO have an inalienable right to return to where they lived. Their life expectancy was 45 when they left. It is 65 years later and very few have lived beyond their life expectancy. They are not a threat to the demographics of Israel.
          =================================================
          Still tilting at windmills I see.

          Your interpretation of a Palestinian refugee is not accepted by the Palestinians, the Israelis or the UN. Your definition of citizenship is not accepted by the Israelis, nor is it claimed by the Palestinians.

          Please point out the long line of old Arabs who are claiming Israeli citizenship and who wish to reside there as Israelis.

        • Shingo says:

          Your interpretation of a Palestinian refugee is not accepted by the Palestinians, the Israelis or the UN. Your definition of citizenship is not accepted by the Israelis, nor is it claimed by the Palestinians.

          False on both counts.

        • talknic says:

          @ mondonut “Still tilting at windmills I see”

          Still in a state of denial I see. You’ve not produced a shred of evidence to back your idiotic claims. NOTHING!

          “Your interpretation of a Palestinian refugee is not accepted by the Palestinians, the Israelis or the UN”

          A) As it IS THE CLAIM of the Palestinians under UNGA res 194, it IS most certainly accepted by the Palestinians. There is no other official claim for RoR to what became Israel 00:01 May 15th 1948 ME time link to trumanlibrary.org

          The Palestinians have no need to claim RoR to what remained of Palestine after Israel was declared independent of Palestine. They can however demand Israel allow refugees return to Palestinian territory and as the Occupying Power over territories “outside the State of Israel” Israel is obliged to comply.

          B) Israel accepts nothing contrary to its propaganda mantras which like your nonsense, simply doesn’t pass the slightest scrutiny.

          C) As it is the UNHCR definition, it IS accepted by the UN, you’re wading neck deep in elephant crap

          “Your definition of citizenship is not accepted by the Israelis, nor is it claimed by the Palestinians

          A) It is not my definition. B) Israel accepts nothing that might spoil it’s delusions C) It IS THE CLAIM of the Palestinians per UNGA res 194

          “Please point out the long line of old Arabs who are claiming Israeli citizenship and who wish to reside there as Israelis

          There is no long line. Do the maths. Its so simple even an annoying denialist propaganda peddling pest like yourself can surely figure that a person of 1948 vintage, with a life expectancy of 45yrs is very likely to be DEAD in 2013.

          If the few that have survived to the OVER ripe old age of 65 (absolute minimum) were granted RoR they would as a matter of course become ISRAELI citizens. The same as Jewish folk choosing to return to Germany become as a matter of course, German citizens.

          People who cannot accept irrefutable evidence, logic and simple maths are either insane or propagandists. Take your pick

  19. MHughes976 says:

    At least the interest of the Palestinians were mentioned, maybe insincerely, as if they were genuine and legitimate. If we could only get that point across in the western political world there would be progress.

  20. just says:

    Great comments, Phil and SQ.

    Thank you.

  21. Citizen says:

    Are the settlements illegal? Why or why not? What is the basis for the Israeli term “disputed territory”? This has been rehashed on this site many times. I thought you all might want to check out this attempt to answer that question, which includes the different handling of the situation by a string of US regimes: link to the-american-interest.com

    Can you spot the nodes of weakness in this attempt to be objective on the issue? Some are overt, some are by omission.

  22. piotr says:

    I started to think that this is not merely problem of Middle East. Setting some type of negotiating process is an age old bureaucratic trick to obfuscate the fact that there is no intention to solve a problem. But lately my brain is almost stalling. Consider the following charades:

    Afghan Taliban opens an office in Qatar, with American encouragement, so USA can negotiate with them. Karzai government rejects the idea, but suppose that they did not. Can anyone, anywhere fathom what possibly our government may offer to Taliban and vice versa?

    Negotiations of Syrian government with the opposition that State Department wants to start with the help of Russia. Here at least I know the postulates of the opposition in the recent and not so recent past. In not so recent past the opposition required that the government should resign as a precondition. Most recently they modified the preconditions to obtaining more and better weapons (why didn’t Abu Mazen think of something like that?). The government is allegedly ready to negotiate, but I can guess their position: “go to Hell”.

    Rhodes, Kerry and Obama give no hint about their preference, so whatever it is, it will not happen — assuming, for the sake of argument, that their preference is different that the status quo.

  23. Citizen says:

    First thing to do is for Israel to recognize the Nakba. The follow-up follows much easier than when one says solving the I-P conflict is “very complex” and/or “difficult.”
    The Jews owned 6% of the land in question when they declared their state unilaterally, and they had already established they didn’t want to interact with the natives at all. Further, Balfour never authorized a Jewish state, only a Jewish homeland in the Mandate land that was conditional on not violating native rights. The Partition plan was just that, a plan, never authorized by the UN via UN SC. Even when the UN accepted Israel into the UN as “a nation among nations” it was only on condition subsequent that the natives scared out of the land would be allowed to return ASAP. The World is still waiting…and Israel keeps gobbling up the little left of native land not already “officially” Israel’s

  24. just says:

    mondonut—I have never “cope”(d) out. The Palestinians were not responsible for the Holocaust. The Israelis snd the “west” were and are responsible for the Nakba and the continuing Occupation and Apartheid.

    Deal with it. The Palestinians do NOT deserve the grotesque treatment that they are dealt and so cavalierly dispensed with by many– far too many Zionists and their erstwhile supporters and adherents.

    “cavalierly”
    5.
    haughty, disdainful, or supercilious: an arrogant and cavalier attitude toward others.”

    link to dictionary.reference.com

    btw, Oday Aboushi is a Cavalier of the first order.

    “one having the spirit or bearing of a knight; a courtly gentleman; gallant. ” And a big shout out to UVA for supporting this man and his education, talent and prowess!

    A gentle giant– yeah! Go ‘hoos!