Obama tells Americans it is ‘abrogation of my constitutional duty’ to defer to Israel on Iran Deal

US Politics
on 207 Comments

President Obama just gave his strongest speech yet in support of the Iran deal. At the end, he called on the public to call up your representatives and tell them what kind of America we want to be. And he both honored the role of the Israel lobby in our politics and then defied it.

Don’t succumb to “political concerns,” he told the Congress, in implicit reference to the power of the Israel lobby, the millions marshaled by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, AIPAC. And he boldly defined an American national interest that is different from the Israeli one. Israel is the only country in the world that is against this deal, he said. Europe and the Security Council are behind it all the way. And while Benjamin Netanyahu is completely “sincere” in his opposition, Obama said, “As president of the United States, it would be an abrogation of my constitutional duty” to defer to Israel’s wishes on this matter.

When has the president stated before that the Israel lobby wants him to abrogate his constitutional duties? He has done so now, and let that word go forth.

In his speech at American University this afternoon, Obama was most forceful in his denunciation of the “mindset” that got us into the Iraq war, a mindset that believes in unilateral action, that exaggerates threats, and whose advocates mislead Americans about the costs of war.

Over and over again he stated the costs of the Iraq war, materially and in human suffering, even referring to the great numbers of Iraqis who died for our folly.

And the costs of war in our country are borne by the less than “1 percent,” Obama said movingly– those in uniform. While those who make the decision to go to war do not suffer the personal consequences.

He made clear that absent the deal there is no other path than a path to war, ultimately. Absent a deal, Iran will continue to develop its nuclear program, and there will soon be calls for military strikes. The very same people who are advising this route are the ones who pushed for the Iraq war.

“The same mindset, in many cases offered by the same people who seem to have no compunction about being repeatedly wrong, led to a war” that did more to strengthen Iran than anything else.

That mindset, he said, is “out of step with American traditions of foreign policy.”

He cited Reagan and Kennedy here, and called on American idealism in a global age. We are “one nation among many,” he advised. And our diplomatic credibility is at stake if we cannot pass the Iran deal.

Chris Matthews said after the speech on MSNBC that Obama is trying to expand the electorate, to those who do not see Israel’s interest as ours. This is the heroic part of the speech: Obama is taking on the lobby directly. The Forward complained earlier this week that he was dog-whistling about Jews wanting wars. He’s not saying that. He’s saying that only Israel and the lobby and the Republicans support this warmongering mindset; and it is damaging our country.

207 Responses

  1. just
    August 5, 2015, 2:22 pm

    Finally.

    Hallelujah.

    “President Obama Remarks on the Iran Nuclear Deal”

    video here: link to c-span.org

    “Obama said, “As president of the United States, it would be an abrogation of my constitutional duty” to defer to Israel’s wishes on this matter.”

    Too bad that so many members of Congress (including Israel, Deutch, and Lowey) can’t say the same.

    Thanks, Phil.

    • Kay24
      August 5, 2015, 2:29 pm

      Thanks a lot Just, I did not see your comment when I posted mine. I appreciate the link.
      It is a much watch. I would love to hear this great speech, that I did not expect at all.
      I am beginning to have my faith in Obama restored again. :))

    • Citizen
      August 5, 2015, 4:19 pm

      At last, Obama is being a true American leader in foreign policy! If Dick and Jane don’t wake up now in this arena they won’t until we’re engaged in WW3 & looking in vain for enough Americans to strap on boots, all the while our economy spirals down.

      • Krauss
        August 5, 2015, 5:31 pm

        The reason why some GOP outcasts voted for Obama, like Scott McConnell, was in part because of Obama’s independence from the lobby to a much, much greater extent than the drones from the Republican party, of which Gingrich was only the most vulgar and transparent(but Romney wouldn’t be far behind).

        I’ll miss this period, as a Clinton WH would inevitably try to move back into the pre-Obama era as much as possible. I’ll miss this period of an American president proudly and boldly taking an independent approach, away from the lobby, without fear.

        Obama’s speech will really be for the 2024 candidate, and the electorate who remembers a great president who actually had a backbone and wasn’t a subservient and willing tool of the powerful in the way Hillary was and remains.

        Oh, and yes, of course Obama will win in the end. I’m doubting AIPAC has the votes, but even if it does, it doesn’t matter. This isn’t something the U.S. will do on its own and Obama will not try to convince the EU to keep the sanctions going.

        Either way, he wins. And either way, AIPAC/Bibi loses.

    • treeman
      August 7, 2015, 5:47 am

      So what , Obama is an antismeite, how surprising. He favours Muslims everywhere he casts his mephistophlian gaze. Many others feel his Iran deal is a naive attempt to shore up his failing legacy. In fact 19 Gulf countries are supporting Israel in its attempt to have this mans ego trip scuttled.

      French leaders think the U.S. president is dangerously naïve on Iran’s ambitions, and that his notion of making Iran an “objective ally” in the war against ISIS, or even a partner, together with Putin’s Russia, to find a political solution to the Syrian crisis, is both far-fetched and “amateurish.”

      When Claude Angéli says that both France’s Foreign Minister, Laurent Fabius, and its President, François Hollande, have told friends that they rely on “the support of the US Congress” to prevent Obama from giving in to Iran’s nuclear ambitions, it is the kind of quote you can take to the bank.

      French diplomats worry that if Iran gets nuclear weapons, every other local Middle East power will want them. Among their worst nightmares is a situation in which Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia join the Dr. Strangelove club.

      French diplomats may not like Israel, but they do not believe that the Israelis would use a nuclear device except in a truly Armageddon situation for Israel. As for Egypt, Saudi Arabia or Turkey going nuclear, however, they see terrifying possibilities: irresponsible leaders, or some ISIS-type terrorist outfit, could actually use them. In other words, even if they would never express it as clearly as that, they see Israelis as “like us,” but others potentially as madmen.

      • just
        August 7, 2015, 8:44 am

        You describe yourself as:

        “Smat, articulate and sophisticated. I never take anything or anyone at face values and am usually able to sift through the bullshit”

        You could’ve fooled me with this:

        “So what , Obama is an antismeite, how surprising. He favours Muslims everywhere he casts his mephistophlian gaze.”

        It’s spelled ‘mephistophelian’. Please cite evidence for your allegations wrt President Obama.

        By the way, are you a “French leader” or a “French diplomat”? How are you privy to their thoughts, and what on earth are you saying here? :

        “In other words, even if they would never express it as clearly as that, they see Israelis as “like us,” but others potentially as madmen.”

      • Bumblebye
        August 7, 2015, 9:06 am

        Yes just – our “smat” new commenter has sifted thru the “bullshit” and now he’s spreading it!

      • Annie Robbins
        August 7, 2015, 9:42 am

        and speaking of bs, wrt his “Claude Angéli says” it appears our new commenter is unaware france is part of p5+1 and already signed the deal! “to prevent Obama from giving in to Iran’s nuclear ambitions” my arse. lol.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 7, 2015, 9:50 am

        “smat” as in ‘i’m intilegent, relly i am’?

      • CigarGod
        August 7, 2015, 9:55 am

        Yeah, dude.
        We’ll take your French Obama/Iran rumours from cocktail party chatter..”…to the bank.”

      • just
        August 7, 2015, 9:58 am

        @ Annie and CG and Bumblebye~ well said, and lol!

        “When Claude Angéli says that both France’s Foreign Minister, Laurent Fabius, and its President, François Hollande, have told friends that they rely on “the support of the US Congress” to prevent Obama from giving in to Iran’s nuclear ambitions, it is the kind of quote you can take to the bank.”

        Perhaps not/peut-être pas:

        “As of 2004, the publisher of the Canard was Michel Gaillard, and the head editors were Claude Angeli and Erik Emptaz.”

        “Le Canard enchaîné (French pronunciation: ​[lə kanaʁ‿ɑ̃ʃɛne]; English: The Chained Duck or The Chained Paper, as “canard” is French slang meaning “newspaper”) is a satirical weekly newspaper in France. Its headquarters is in Paris.[1] Founded in 1915 during World War I, it features investigative journalism and leaks from sources inside the French government, the French political world and the French business world, as well as many jokes and humorous cartoons.”

        link to en.wikipedia.org

      • Sam332
        August 8, 2015, 12:38 pm

        Many muslims are Arab and Arabs are Semites in every way that Israelis are . Israel has somehow made North America think they are not Middle Eastern. Sorry bub, Israelis are closer to Arabs then any other race or ethnicity.

      • Hostage
        August 9, 2015, 2:58 pm

        By the way, are you a “French leader” or a “French diplomat”? How are you privy to their thoughts, and what on earth are you saying here?

        Okay, I’ll bite. No, he’s just a Control-C Control-V copy and paste-up aficionado of an outdated Gatestone Institute piece of illogical agit prop material on the subject of “What France Really Thinks of U.S. Iran Policy” from last spring. link to gatestoneinstitute.org

        The remainder of his text, with the exception of the introductory paragraph that claimed Obama is a Muslim, was plagerized from that article without attribution. I recognized it, because I try to read all of the major Zionist organization’s electronic mailing list messages everyday (so that other’s don’t have to;-)

        As Annie mentioned, it’s hard to take that nonsense as serious analysis, since both of the named French officials signed-off on the subsequent agreement and Fabius was dispatched to Tehran begging to restore the billions of lost euros in trade that French firms, including Total oil, and automobile manufacturers PSA Peugeot-Citroën and Renault have lost in the Iranian market as a result of hostile French foreign policy. The Germans and Koreans have already visited Tehran too.

        If my Jewish upbringing taught me nothing else, it’s that you really can’t take something like a Gatestone “money quote” “to the bank”. News reports claim that French and German investors who knew that were among the very first to start pocketing profits from stock speculation over resumed trade with Iran;-) If the commenter is French, then he’s probably missed out on the opportunity to make windfall profits there. But thanks to the US Congress, there’s still time to make a little money here. I would advise anyone not to “bet the farm” by shorting their investments on the risky odds that Obama will not have a veto proof majority in favor of ratifying the deal.

      • just
        August 9, 2015, 3:27 pm

        “I recognized it, because I try to read all of the major Zionist organization’s electronic mailing list messages everyday (so that other’s don’t have to;-)”

        I so appreciate your devotion to the cause of truth, Hostage.

        So, treeman is a plagiarist. Good to know. Sacré bleu!

        Somewhat interestingly, Anne- Elisabeth Moutet (the author of the piece that treeman stole) is a “Distinguished Senior Fellow” at the odious and loathsome Gatestone Institute.

        I found another article about her:

        “Anne-Elisabeth Moutet is a French journalist and author working on “La Droite La Plus Intelligente Du Monde: À la Rencontre de l’Amérique de George W. Bush,” a book that examines the responses of the Bush Administration to 9/11 within the larger historical and ideological framework of the American Conservative movement.

        The book will include interviews with members of the Reagan and Bush administrations, as well as with intellectuals, journalists, academics and politicians representing the various trends of the American Right: Norman Podhoretz, Irving and Bill Kristol, William F. Buckley, Senators Orrin Hatch and Jesse Helms, Dov Zakheim, George Shultz, Neal Kozodoy, and many more. …”

        link to oocities.org

        ugh.

      • Mooser
        August 10, 2015, 11:55 am

        “I recognized it, because I try to read all of the major Zionist organization’s electronic mailing list messages everyday (so that other’s don’t have to;-)”

        You, sir, deserve a good hard beatification for that!

      • Hostage
        August 10, 2015, 4:27 pm

        You, sir, deserve a good hard beatification for that!

        No just an occasional beer, while my hard drive is being reformatted as part of the ritual of destroying any lingering concentrations of pure Zionist evil and upgrading to a shiny new release of my favorite Linux distro. You know, “why is this night so special?” Because we are going to reboot!

      • Annie Robbins
        August 10, 2015, 4:39 pm

        you must have been cut off in mid-edit hostage. i am going to close out your quote for you ;)

        if i wasn’t moderating and trying to finish some drafts i’d like nothing more than finishing all the link i found last night due to one of your other conversations (googling jta info). what would we do without you!

        i’d love to have a beer with you. maybe we should all rendezvous in kansas or oklahoma or where ever it is our national treasure (you) resides.

        in our dreams perhaps.

      • Hostage
        August 10, 2015, 6:14 pm

        you must have been cut off in mid-edit hostage. i am going to close out your quote for you ;)

        No, the reason that those nights are so special, is because it’s the only time I shutdown and reboot my home server. Even when I’m not awake, everyone else around here is logged-in remotely and using at all hours of the day.

      • Hostage
        August 10, 2015, 6:37 pm

        P.S. I just noticed this, in case everyone else hasn’t heard: Gaza infant mortality rate rises for first time in 53 years, UN study reveals

        The number of babies dying before four weeks old has risen from 12 per 1,000 live births in 2008 to 20.3 in 2013, agency for Palestinian refugees says — link to theguardian.com

        Because of the increase they will conduct another survey this year. That evidence suggests that the conditions of life that have been imposed there are taking a heavy toll on the most vulnerable members of the targeted population. That’s one of the possible elements of the offense of apartheid, which the Palestinians have referred to the ICC Prosecutor.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 10, 2015, 9:10 pm

        i noticed that report too hostage. it reminded of fidaa’s abuassi’s nephew dying link to mondoweiss.net

        my mom told me that during the war my sister couldn’t breathe properly because of inhaling too much toxic smoke. She didn’t know she was then two-month pregnant. Terrified, I prayed nothing would harm her or her baby.

        …..A couple of hours later, the doctor told my mom that she could take my sister home. “What about ibni (my son)?” my panicked sister cried out. “He has to stay here till we can figure out his breathing problem. He might need an operation.” The doctor shot back. “An operation? Why? What’s wrong with ibni mom?” she pleaded. My mom tried to assure her that he was doing well but just needed a simple operation to help him breathe more properly. My sister then left the hospital, in tears. She kept mumbling all the way “Why wasn’t I allowed to –at least –hold him? To breastfeed him? Isn’t he hungry, mom? Please tell me how he will be fed? I wanted to clothe him. Please let’s go back; I want to see him one more time.”

        I was crying silently. I couldn’t handle this. Every time I tried to open my mouth to tell her not to worry about him, I found myself unable to utter any word of comfort. We spent two days just waiting a word from the doctor. Her husband, Monir, couldn’t endure seeing his wife groaning for her son. He went to the hospital to check on his son and register his birth only to be told that his son died a couple of hours ago. Such bad news was hard per se, but breaking it to us was even harder on him. He didn’t know what to do but to call us. The news had shaken us from the inside out. It was so shocking we couldn’t quite believe it.

        …….

        It was such a moment of intense sadness. I tried to remember when my family had last been this sad. It dawned on me that we had never experienced sadness before. He was born to die. …..

        His name “was” Laith. His name means “strength”, “bravery” and “toughness”, yet he was neither strong nor tough enough to survive. He was just brave enough to leave such a terrible world for which he was too good and pure to be in. Laith is now in a better place. In Heaven.

        The doctors said most babies born after the war didn’t survive. Should we then blame Israel for the death of my sister’s baby? Should the occupation be held accountable for such a crime! For all its endless crimes? Shall we blame/sue whom? I couldn’t help but remember all bereaved mothers who lost their grown-up kids in front of their eyes in a matter of seconds! My sister’s agony isn’t even comparable to that of those who lost their entire family overnight. My sister’s experience seemed to us one of its kind, yet she was definitely not the only, the first or the last one who experienced such a great loss. I had always thought I could understand the pain of those mothers. I was wrong. My sister made me feel it for real. I have never felt pain like this before. I wasn’t in her position, either. Her son wasn’t mine. Even when trying to put myself in her shoes, I will never feel the pain she feels nor feel the agony of all mothers when losing a child. I am not a mother after all.

        It is hard. It really is. Yesterday midnight, we heard her crying. We hurriedly got up to see her. We found her cling on tight to her baby’s clothes. Upon seeing us, she exploded into wild tears. “Say Alhamdulillah,” mom kept reminding her, “remember, my dear, he’s in Heaven, in a better place.” “I could be his Heaven, mom. I made his room Heaven-like,” my sister made us all weep uncontrollably. “Habibti, remember those whose kids were all at once killed in an airstrike, and say Alhamdulillah,” I finally managed to say something. “Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah.” She kept saying. I couldn’t bear the mournful look of her eyes. It was hard on all of us.

        We haven’t yet survived the trauma. Broken-hearted, each one of us has his share of the pain. Both my parents and Laith’s parents have a bigger share. My dad is a story by himself. I didn’t see him as sad as he is now when his own father died a couple of years ago. I have never seen him break down like this before. We live a moment of deep sadness that made us forget if we had ever been sad or even happy before. We have felt substantially devastated. This moment of sadness killed our entire life’s moments of joy.

        …… The death of my nephew, the agony of my sister, the intense sadness we have all felt has killed such a delight….. Because of my Kafkaesque reality, I want to escape to a different reality and to a better world. In Heaven, probably, where Laith is. May he rest in peace. May I rest in peace.

    • Kathleen
      August 7, 2015, 1:09 pm

      “finally” And all of us need to keep doing our part to support this deal as P Obama has pointed out. Contact our Reps, write to local papers in support, call into national radio programs, Washington Journal, local radio programs in support. Share this MW page on fb, Huff Po, other websites. Keep pushing for this peaceful deal

  2. Kay24
    August 5, 2015, 2:26 pm

    OMGosh, is this some kind of satire? This is the speech I have been waiting to hear for years.

    This will be the first time I have heard an American politician refer to the suffering of the Iraqi people, something that no one addressed, referred to, or showed remorse for. We know that thousands died for what he called “our folly”, but their lives seemed to be of no consequence to anyone in our government, nor in the media. I am very impressed that he was able to call on Israel (and it’s lobby) for their BS. This is strong criticism for Israel’s negativity about the Iran deal, and bring attention to the fact that it is the ONLY nation that is against it. Even the Saudis have show some signs of adjusting to it. Israel has been shown to be the only nation wrong about the deal, and that they were wrong about Iraq too.

    He has obviously opened himself to criticism from spineless pro Israeli elements, who foolishly have tied themselves to a nation that has shown it cannot work with the rest of the world.
    If they had any sense, they would not bet against the world.

    I wish I could have heard this speech, and anyone who can link it, thank you.

    • Citizen
      August 5, 2015, 4:21 pm

      Fox TV news channel is already calling on pundits to diss Obama’s speech; there seems no end to these war mongers.

  3. michelle
    August 5, 2015, 2:34 pm

    .
    i hope congress heard him loud and clear
    .
    though they might not personally visit other parts of The Middle East they sure do need to consider what is going on on the other side of the wall
    the internet has plenty to offer there
    .
    G-d Bless

    • Kay24
      August 5, 2015, 3:36 pm

      I hope all Americans hear him loud and clearly, although the main tv channels are non stop about the wing found in a remote island belonging to the Malaysian airline that is missing, the circus by the republican candidates, and right now some shooting at a theater in TN.
      Quite a busy news day, however even on a slow day the zionist media may not have given this the attention it deserves.

      • Citizen
        August 5, 2015, 4:23 pm

        Yep, you are right so far, the cable tv news/infotainment channels are not informing the public of just how important this speech is.

    • Hostage
      August 9, 2015, 3:37 pm

      i hope congress heard him loud and clear . though they might not personally visit other parts of The Middle East they sure do need to consider what is going on on the other side of the wall

      Correction: As creatures of the US Constitution, I just wish that our Executive and Legislative branches would stop signing bills into law that violate their Constitutional duties regarding the “establishment” of religion on the “Jewish” State’s side of the #$@! Wall! See 22 U.S. Code § 8602 – Statement of policy, i.e. “It is the policy of the United States:
      (1) To reaffirm our unwavering commitment to the security of the State of Israel as a Jewish state. As President Barack Obama stated on December 16, 2011, …” link to law.cornell.edu

      The United States government has voted to adopt General Assembly and Security Council resolutions that absolutely require the establishment of a Palestinian state within provisional borders on at least two occasions (See UN GA resolution 181(II) and UN SC resolution 1515. It was obliged to begin promoting international recognition of Palestinian statehood and UN membership in accordance with the terms of both of those resolutions. But the latter resolution, established a deadline of no later than December of 2003.

      The Middle East Quartet’s Road Map dictated the terms of Palestine’s internal governance and Constitution. It created an “empowered Prime Minister” position, precisely because Israel and the USA no longer wished to deal with the President, Mr. Arafat. He had won the position in internationally supervised elections for an office that should have only lasted as long as the 5 year interim period prescribed in the Oslo Declaration of Principles. The Road Map also required the new Palestinian government to suppress attacks on Israeli civilians and to cooperate on regional security. In exchange for the best cooperation ever, our government responded by punishing international institutions and the Palestinians for promoting Palestinian statehood and membership in international organizations. It has even gone so far as to deny that Palestine even has a government with a President or Prime Minister:

      “Let me be very clear: the United States does not recognize a government with respect to Palestine, because that would recognize a state and there is no state,” Kerry said. “This is not an issue of recognition of a government.”

      — See: Kerry: US doesn’t recognize Palestinian gov’t because there is no Palestinian state link to ynetnews.com

      So the pretense that this administration isn’t doing the bidding of the government of Israel or its Lobby is simply ridiculous. It has continued the proud tradition of Balfour, Wilson, and Truman, i.e. [they] have made no statement of fact [to the Palestinians] which is not admittedly wrong, and no declaration of policy which, at least in the letter, they have not always intended to violate.”

      • just
        August 9, 2015, 3:49 pm

        “So the pretense that this administration isn’t doing the bidding of the government of Israel or its Lobby is simply ridiculous. It has continued the proud tradition of Balfour, Wilson, and Truman, i.e. [they] have made no statement of fact [to the Palestinians] which is not admittedly wrong, and no declaration of policy which, at least in the letter, they have not always intended to violate.”

        This is entirely reprehensible. No wonder the US is not trusted by many people and countries~ it shouldn’t be.

        This entire comment of yours is bookmarked, Hostage. It will come in very handy in any future discussions that I have with the unconvinced and indoctrinated.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 9, 2015, 5:08 pm

        In exchange for the best cooperation ever, our government responded by punishing international institutions and the Palestinians for promoting Palestinian statehood and membership in international organizations. It has even gone so far as to deny that Palestine even has a government with a President or Prime Minister

        i can’t wait for this farce to be over. this is why israel uses iran to suck up so much energy, to evade the inevitable. thanks hostage.

      • Mooser
        August 10, 2015, 2:20 pm

        Hostage, one of your posts about inspired me to make up a joke the other day and it goes like this:

        Q: A decade from now, what will be the main difference between American zionists, and American ex-zionists, non-zionists and anti-zionists?

        A: Whether or not the person is still the subject of a Federal investigation, or under indictment.

      • Bornajoo
        August 10, 2015, 4:01 pm

        “Hostage, one of your posts about inspired me to make up a joke the other day and it goes like this:

        Q: A decade from now, what will be the main difference between American zionists, and American ex-zionists, non-zionists and anti-zionists?

        A: Whether or not the person is still the subject of a Federal investigation, or under indictment.”

        Ha ha Brilliant Mooser! Too good

      • Hostage
        August 10, 2015, 4:14 pm

        Q: A decade from now, what will be the main difference between American zionists, and American ex-zionists, non-zionists and anti-zionists?

        A: Whether or not the person is still the subject of a Federal investigation, or under indictment.

        פֿון דײַן מויל אין גאָטס אויערן fun dayn moyl in gots oyern.

      • Hostage
        August 12, 2015, 1:17 pm

        i can’t wait for this farce to be over.

        Well it isn’t over yet. You’ve probably already heard the news that the US government submitted an “unofficial appeal” to a New York court Monday to reconsider a ruling against the Palestinian Authority to pay $218.5 million in damages to victims of terror attacks. link to ynetnews.com

        Bear in mind that States, as such, are immune from that sort of lawsuit under the terms of the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act.

        The Justice Department cited concern that such a hefty amount could “compromise the PA’s ability to operate as a governmental authority.” Secretary Kerry was simply restating a rule of customary international law that is reflected in § 203 “Recognition or Acceptance of Governments” of The Restatement (Third) of the Foreign Relations Law of the United States pp 84, which stipulates that: “A state cannot recognize or accept a regime as a “government” without thereby accepting the statehood of the entity which the regime claims to be governing.”

        The hypocrisy of denying the State of Palestine’s existence, rights, and immunities, while at one and the same time serving as the single largest foreign donor to the operation of its government since 1993, simply rises to the high heavens. You’d have to be schizophrenic to accept the Obama administration’s explanations for our current foreign policy, because no sane intellect could make heads or tails out of our Orwellian Doublespeak.

      • michelle
        August 14, 2015, 10:56 am

        .
        dear Hostage
        may you & all you love be filled with the best of Blessings
        m
        you are right of course i agree
        and add that all the world leaders should lead dick&jane into a more just world/life
        no matter what side of the wall they live on
        .
        G-d Bless

  4. US Citizen
    August 5, 2015, 2:37 pm

    Finally a two state solution. A separation between the USA and Israel. Wait…..what is that …..the fat lady is singing !!!!!!!

    • SonofDaffyDuck
      August 6, 2015, 11:12 am

      Oh yeh!
      The “two state solution” Great Line.
      Let this be the cry of all those who want an Israeliectomy carried out on the American Policy.

  5. ckg
    August 5, 2015, 2:40 pm

    Thanks, Phil. Here is one minor nuanced clarification. You write

    He made clear that absent the deal there is no other path than a path to war, ultimately. Absent a deal, Iran will continue to develop its nuclear weapon, and there will soon be calls for military strikes.

    Here is the actual quote from the transcript:

    Congressional rejection of this deal leaves any U.S. administration that is absolutely committed to preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon with one option, another war in the Middle East. I say this not to be provocative, I am stating a fact. Without this deal, Iran will be in a position, however tough our rhetoric may be, to steadily advance its capabilities. Its breakout time, which is already fairly small, could shrink to near zero. Does anyone really doubt that the same voices now raised against this deal will be demanding that whoever is president bomb those nuclear facilities? And as someone who does firmly believe that Iran must not get a nuclear weapon and who has wrestled with this issue since the beginning of my presidency, I can tell you that alternatives to military actions will have been exhausted once we reject a hard-won diplomatic solution that the world almost unanimously supports.

    I don’t think Obama means to imply that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. But rather that its nuclear program that was developed for energy is sufficiently advanced that it has a decreasing breakout time if Tehran were ever to choose to produce weapons.

    • just
      August 5, 2015, 2:43 pm

      I agree, ckg.

      Thanks.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 5, 2015, 2:49 pm

      thanks ckg, i am going to edit that.

    • Philip Weiss
      August 5, 2015, 5:07 pm

      thanks for that, yes, will fix

    • lysias
      August 5, 2015, 5:27 pm

      So this speech amounts to a denial that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. A significant first for a U.S. president?

      • ckg
        August 5, 2015, 7:12 pm

        I don’t think that Obama here denies that Iran has a nuclear weapons program, but I don’t think he has ever implied that Iran does have one. The easy conflation of Iran’s acknowledged nuclear program and a nuclear weapons program is what the hawks do. He does mention how the nuclear program for energy began under the Shaw.

    • CigarGod
      August 6, 2015, 8:53 am

      I believe we still surround Iran with 45+ military bases…for the obvious top three reasons (oil, Israel and projection).
      I’m sure Obama’s “…folly…” comment is not sitting well with these polarized usa personnel.

      • michelle
        August 6, 2015, 1:30 pm

        .
        i learn so much here ty
        .
        if America wants peace over war shouldn’t those bases be recalled
        military lock down does not equate to peace first
        bit of a mixed message that
        .
        i had hoped that America & Iran were turning over a new leaf/making a fresh start together
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

      • CigarGod
        August 6, 2015, 5:04 pm

        Unfortunately, Michelle.
        There was a strong merchant and royalty class in Shah era Iran…who then had to flee. They are a strong lobby. They consider Iran, as their personal property…but will share it…in return for a partner with muscle.

        Same format took place in Cuba 20 years earlier.

  6. Qualtrough
    August 5, 2015, 3:03 pm

    Further to President Obama pointing out that it is the 1% in the armed forces who suffer when the US gets involved in fighting, I think the military should establish accommodations at some forward bases for neocons and others who loudly push for war from the safety of their desks back home. They would then be invited by the US government to set up there, regardless of age, so that they can provide further advice in person and in real-time to the men and women on the front lines. The soldiers on the front lines would also be able to thank them in person for their advice.

    • Citizen
      August 5, 2015, 4:26 pm

      Would you like to be in a trench with Sheldon Adelson? How about with Joe Lieberman? Or Bill Kristol? Ugh!

    • David Doppler
      August 5, 2015, 5:30 pm

      Good idea, Qualtrough. For some reason, I’m reminded of a scene from Band of Brothers, where Capt Winters and his team have just rousted Germans out of a little town, having run through machine gun fire to do so – major house-to-house fighting for hours – and, as they walk down the street during mop up, a Major asks them cautiously, is it safe? which brought a smile and chuckle to Winters’ face?

    • tokyobk
      August 5, 2015, 8:56 pm

      Qualthrough – Warmongering from a safe vantage is one of the several anti-war themes in the great movie All Quiet on the Western Front. Your comment reminded me of the jingoistic professor blathering about battlefield glory in his class and then, with other old men, pouring over maps discussing battles in which young men are dying in the thousands.

    • eljay
      August 5, 2015, 9:53 pm

      “‘Forward!’ he cried from the rear and the front rank died
      The general sat and the lines on the map moved from side to side”

      link to youtube.com

  7. Qualtrough
    August 5, 2015, 3:36 pm

    No mention of that key phrase in the BBC report:

    link to bbc.com

  8. hophmi
    August 5, 2015, 3:41 pm

    Today’s speech supported Israel’s qualitative military edge and called Iran’s behavior “offensive and incendiary.” It also said that no one could blame Israel for being skeptical of Iran, a regime that had adopted an ideology of “antisemitism” and had “denied the Holocaust.” The President supported enhanced security cooperation between the US and Israel. It’s good to hear that all of you are supportive of all of this.

    • amigo
      August 5, 2015, 4:13 pm

      ” It’s good to hear that all of you are supportive of all of this – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net” hopknee.

      Oh , he has said all that patronising crap before.We are more interested in what he is saying for the first time.

      A smart cookie like yourself ought to be also.

    • ivri
      August 5, 2015, 4:26 pm

      @Hophmi
      Yes, you are right. Thais was not at all an anti-Israel speech. But the people here are so eager for a bit of bad news about Israel, even just a bit of a bit, that they are not going to let that spoil their joy.
      The reality is that given the collapse of so many Arab states in the region, Obama is keen to keep Israel solid, as almost all the Capitol, Democrats as Republicans, do – there is simply no much choice anymore.
      Now, the Iran agreement is a big gamble – and Obama understands it very well. It is not yet clear that it will go through – there are all kinds of obstacles on the way. Importantly, it is not Israel opposition that Obama is really worried about – that just makes a good headline – but rather the Congress. People there now had the time to look into the fine details of the agreement and get a better grasp of the many serious holes in it. In my own view the actual materialization of this agreement still hangs in the balance.

      • ckg
        August 5, 2015, 9:39 pm

        The reality is that given the collapse of so many Arab states in the region, Obama is keen to keep Israel solid…

        Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain now look solid too. Never underestimate repression.

      • Brewer
        August 5, 2015, 11:59 pm

        “given the collapse of so many Arab states”

        Not the “mot juste” in my humble opinion. Some others:

        subjugation
        invasion
        annihilation

        I would be happier with Obama if he had renounced all predation on Israel’s behalf such as the ongoing Syrian catastrophe:
        http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/pentagon/2015/08/03/us-air-strikes–syria/31069911/

      • MRW
        August 6, 2015, 2:47 pm

        Gee, these guys have taken longer to read the Iran deal (which was FAR FAR shorter in pages) than they took to read the Patriot Act.

      • Walker
        August 6, 2015, 3:58 pm

        The reality is that given the collapse of so many Arab states in the region . . . there is simply no much choice anymore.

        Gee, and just how did that happen?

        If you look at the neocons’ policies and their behavior when they had a chance to affect outcomes in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, it’s hard to believe that their goal (and Israel’s also) was to anything other than to fragment Arab nations and destroy their societies. To take one example, look at Douglas Feith and his painstaking preparations for the care of Iraq.

      • hophmi
        August 7, 2015, 11:35 am

        “Hoppy, I wonder if you could, just for a moment, consider how this statement is received by relatives of the 50 million among the Allies who died fighting the Axis and the millions of wounded and traumatized who survived, none of whom knew anything of the Holocaust until late in 1944.”

        I wonder if you could, just for a moment, consider how your statement is totally beside the point, predictably defensive, and obtuse. Nobody is taking anything away from the Allies; it’s pure nonsense that no one knew anything about the Holocaust until late 1944, and the fact of the matter is that 6 out of every 11 Jews in Europe were murdered, and it is little solace that, for reasons having relatively little to do with the Holocaust, the Allies eventually defeated our murderers.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 7, 2015, 11:41 am

        NO, it is most definitely NOT beside the point, predictably defensive, and obtuse. and you’re most definitely ‘taking something away from the Allies’.

        tree’s right, it’s a blood libel and it’s gross. you act like we don’t have families and personal memories ourselves, relatives – fathers and brothers and uncles who died and suffered, mothers and sisters and grandparents who wept and wept and wept. permanent painful family scars.

        just stop hops. i think we’ve collectively heard the fact of the matter is that 6 out of every 11 Jews in Europe were murdered about a zillion times . it will never erase others suffering. it was a WORLD WAR – lots of suffering!!!

      • Bornajoo
        August 7, 2015, 12:16 pm

        “NO, it is most definitely NOT beside the point, predictably defensive, and obtuse. and you’re most definitely ‘taking something away from the Allies’ trees right, it’s a blood libel and it’s gross. you act like we don’t have personal memories ourselves, relatives – fathers and unlces who died and suffered. just stop hops. i think we’ve collectively heard the fact of the matter is that 6 out of every 11 Jews in Europe were murdered about a zillion times . it will never erase others suffering. it was a WORLD WAR – lots of suffering!!!” (Annie)

        +100 Annie! Perfectly and passionately stated. Absolutely true and correct

        Hophmi believes that Jewish victimhood trumps all other suffering which just doesn’t seem to count very much at all in his world view. Yes Tree is absolutely right, it is a blood libel

      • Annie Robbins
        August 7, 2015, 1:07 pm

        ha! you caught my quote in mid-edit mode bornajoo. well, i didn’t change it that much. i was actually crying as i was editing it. it made me so mad. and part of those edits i made reveal (more of) who i was thinking of, ever so personally of course.

      • RoHa
        August 7, 2015, 12:22 pm

        I think that response from Hophmi confirms my previous post.

      • yonah fredman
        August 7, 2015, 12:57 pm

        Recently citizen in the comments section has referred (not in these very words, but in words that meant the same thing) to WWII as a war that the Jews led the United States into.

        And Pat Buchanan has spoken disparagingly about WWII and US participation. Let’s be clear. World War II was the birth of the modern world and there was no way for the US to avoid it and those who are still arguing the side of America First circa 1941 are just wrong headed. Hitler was not something that could be condoned. War was the only cure for Hitler.

        (The Japanese alliance with Hitler and the clash between America and Japan in the Pacific is a colonial slugfest and the inevitability of that war or the coincidence of that war and the German reaction to WWI, are of a less inevitable situation. But whoever is willing now in retrospect to envision America sitting out that war has a very contused view of history, in my opinion.

        How does a kid born in 1995 react to WWII? Like ancient history.

        I don’t know what FDR could have done for the Jews and there is no precedent in the time of conflict that was unprecedented for a president to worry about anything other than victory. atrocities being committed by the other side are issues for after the war. atrocities of this scale might be unprecedented, but the dawn of modernity was unprecedented and FDR had a war to fight and win. I don’t know if Jewish powerlessness in 1942 is similar to other powerlessnesses at the time or before or since.

        In Walker Percy’s the Moviegoer, the narrator describes himself as a southerner who reads constantly of the civil war and is always trying to change the past while reading. WWII is kind of like that for me.

        in ian kershaw’s fateful decisions hitler’s decision to kill the jews is one of the ten decisions. maybe some here feel that kershaw is some kind of a zionist rather than a historian. but there is little question that the primary takeaways of most end of the 20th century historians rated “the holocaust” as one of the primary stories of the century and those here who think different can find their historians as well.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 7, 2015, 1:35 pm

        there is little question that the primary takeaways of most end of the 20th century historians rated “the holocaust” as one of the primary stories of the century

        i don’t think anyone would dispute that. here’s wiki: link to en.wikipedia.org

        1 Events in the 20th century

        1.1 The world at the beginning of the century

        1.2 The imperial crisis

        1.2.1 “The war to end all wars”: World War I (1914–1918)
        1.2.2 The Russian Revolution and communism

        1.3 Between the wars

        1.3.1 Economic depression
        1.3.2 The rise of dictatorship

        1.4 Global war: World War II (1939–1945)

        1.4.1 The war in Europe
        1.4.2 The war in the Pacific
        1.4.3 The Holocaust
        1.4.4 The Nuclear Age begins

        1.5 The post-war world

        1.5.1 The end of empires: decolonization
        1.5.2 The Cold War (1947–1991)
        1.5.2.1 War by proxy
        1.5.3 The space race
        1.5.4 The end of the Cold War
        1.5.5 Information and communications technology

        1.6 The world at the end of the century

      • just
        August 7, 2015, 1:22 pm

        Thanks, Annie & Bornajoo.

        Thank you for expressing so well the outrage that I feel.

        hophmi is WAY out of line~ again.

        “I think that response from Hophmi confirms my previous post.”

        It certainly does, RoHa.

      • Mooser
        August 7, 2015, 3:05 pm

        “it’s pure nonsense that no one knew anything about the Holocaust until late 1944, and the fact of the matter is that 6 out of every 11 Jews in Europe were murdered, and it is little solace that, for reasons having relatively little to do with the Holocaust, the Allies eventually defeated our murderers.”

        So, what do you figure you, as a Jew, are owed? Look, don’t be shy, name a figure.

      • Mooser
        August 7, 2015, 10:47 pm

        “well, i didn’t change it that much. i was actually crying as i was editing it. it made me so mad.”

        Just astounding what Hophmi can accomplish, when he goes into ‘outreach’ mode!

      • Hostage
        August 9, 2015, 6:56 pm

        it is not Israel opposition that Obama is really worried about – that just makes a good headline – but rather the Congress.

        LoL! The reason that the Great Powers had to finally make a deal, is because Israel and the US overplayed their hands and destroyed international support for the sanctions regime.

        They did that by demanding that Israel be allowed to keep a nuclear free Middle East and its own illegal weapons program off of the IAEA agenda, while demanding that Iran’s entire nuclear program be eliminated, including the portions allowed to every country under the terms of the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

        The US and Israel did the most ignorant thing any country can do after leveling those extravagant demands, when both started threatening Iran with military strikes and actual terror attacks. The UN never prohibited Russia or China from selling Iran convention weapons to defend itself from that sort of thing. Every NPT signatory can withdraw from the non-proliferation regime “for cause” if its own strategic interests, survival, or territorial integrity are threatened in accordance with the terms of Article X of the NPT and Article 51 of the UN Charter. See “LEGALITY OF THE THREAT OR USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS”, Advisory Opinion of 8 July 1996 link to un.org

        The UN Security Council isn’t even sanctioning the other states, like India and Pakistan, that acquired nuclear weapons, and we sure as hell wouldn’t be having any discussion about attacking Iran if it had any. It’s an open secret that Saudi Arabia financed the development of the Pakistani nuclear weapons program, and the Kingdom has publicly announced plans to simply purchase nuclear weapons from Pakistan’s inventory. So it’s a small miracle that Iran did reserve its right to acquire a weapon to counter the existing Saudi and Israeli threat.

        Under the circumstances, Putin was signaling game-over to the UN and the Israeli-US backed sanctions regime months ago when he announced resumption of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile deal and Obama admitted Russia had never been under any UN obligation to stop delivery. Frankly the US Joint Chiefs have never been eager to try and penetrate the homegrown Iranian defense systems or deal with what happens in the Strait of Hormuz the day after an attempt is made to do so. They’re not interested in scoring a pyrrhic victory or own goal for a guy who can’t even swing enough votes to get his own coalition to sign-off on a gas deal. Likewise, I don’t think that Israelis have stopped to figure out how much worse the missile barrage coming from both Iran and Lebanon could be in comparison to the disruption to their lives and economy that was caused by a single missile attack Ben Gurion airport.

        Meanwhile, there’s billions of dollars to be made in commodities and manufactured goods off of the Iran deal. The Soviet Union and the French, German, and Koreans are falling all over themselves to fill the vacuum. If you think that the people in this country who lobby and sign checks to fund election campaigns for the members of Congress are going to just release the levers of power and sit on their hands and let Bibi or AIPAC take full control and dictate the outcome of that vote, then I think you’re making a series of serious miscalculations.

      • straightline
        August 9, 2015, 7:25 pm

        You’re a class act, Hostage! Three outstanding comments on this thread! When I tell others about MW, as I do often, particularly those who believe the lies in the MSM, I always add “And be sure to read “Hostage””. You’ve said what I’ve been trying to say, but much more eloquently and cogently.

        The sanctions regime is over. So if the US wants to do anything to Iran (and I can’t work out why, in its own interests, it would), it has to be war not continued sanctions. But finding a “coalition of the willing” will be much harder this time – Canada maybe? I’m not even sure they’d get Australia or the UK across the line. From a global perspective, the anti-Iran crowd in the US is well and truly snookered. It would be in Israel’s interests too to accept the inevitable and look for alternative ways to achieve its egregious aims.

      • Hostage
        August 9, 2015, 8:37 pm

        I wonder if you could, just for a moment, consider how your statement is totally beside the point, predictably defensive, and obtuse. Nobody is taking anything away from the Allies; it’s pure nonsense that no one knew anything about the Holocaust until late 1944, and the fact of the matter is that 6 out of every 11 Jews in Europe were murdered, and it is little solace that, for reasons having relatively little to do with the Holocaust, the Allies eventually defeated our murderers.

        Yes you are – and you come off sounding like a complete snot, every time you do so. I’ve responded to your libels here in the past, as a matter of form. Here’s a link in case you’ve forgotten: link to mondoweiss.net

        Every time a member of the Zionist movement mentions the Holocaust, they should have a copy of the Haavara Agreement jammed in their nasty mouths. At least the Allies didn’t sign a formal partnership agreement and go into business with the Nazis to fleece the Jewish victims out of a third of their fortunes, after the Boxheim Documents were published revealing Hitler’s official plans to intern the Jews and other non-German groups in order to starve them to death. link to archive.jta.org

        I’ve pointed out many times in the past, that the Haavara Agreement did nothing at all for the penniless Jews who could not afford the cost of obtaining a quota from the Jewish Agency or pay the 1000 Palestinian Pound bond for a Capitalist Immigration Certificate from the British authorities. It only helped wealthy Jews circumvent the Nazi’s currency controls and transfer amounts larger than 1000 pounds out of the country. So the Yishuv entered into a cozy and profitable arrangement and pro-actively frustrated any other avenues of escape or competing efforts to raise money to help the poor Jews you are always so busy shedding crocodile tears over.

        That was all in perfect harmony with Herzl’s original hair-brained plan to harness anti-semitism as the engine to drive Jewish outward emigration to his Jewish nation state by using the wealth and businesses of the dear departed as bait. Any wealthy Jew could purchase a capitalist immigration certificate, but he never had a clue about saving the rest from suffering the consequences of his scheme.

      • CigarGod
        August 9, 2015, 9:04 pm

        Right on, Hostage.
        I wasn’t sure I’d live to see the day the myth of Universal Jewish Sainthood would be challenged authoritatively.

      • Hostage
        August 9, 2015, 9:54 pm

        I wasn’t sure I’d live to see the day the myth of Universal Jewish Sainthood would be challenged authoritatively.

        Sainthood? The wholesale levelling of the centuries old Mughrabi quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem, including the Sheikh Eid Mosque and Tomb, was a war crime that permitted the construction of the plaza adjacent to the Western Wall where clueless tourists, including Obama have subsequently been herded through like so many sheep for indoctrination.

        I’ve complained in the past that one of the institutions that the State of Israel established on some of that pricey new real estate was the World Headquarters of Aish International. They’ve trained thousands of the Hasbara Fellowship members you encounter here over the years. link to aish.com

        The flaming @sshats that serve as Aish spirtual leaders have brass balls big enough to openly publish anti-Semitic propaganda that says the Jewish victims of the Holocaust were the reincarnated souls of “great sinners” who only got what they actually had coming to them: See Holocaust: Reincarnated Souls? link to aish.com

        If it weren’t a violation of the Mondoweiss comment rules, they’d be using Phil and Adam’s free bandwidth here to proclaim that it was really Divine justice that caused sinful, assimilated Reform and Anti-Zionist Jews to bring about the Holocaust experienced by those great sinners. The Zionist State not only keeps company with those troglodytes, it promotes them to the highest positions within the Rabbinate. Are we supposed to pretend not to notice all of that, and just swallow Hophmi’s insults and shopworn propaganda hook, line, and sinker?

      • CigarGod
        August 9, 2015, 11:14 pm

        I didnt know that stuff.
        No wonder people get fed up.

        Being out front is the only place to be. Your unflagging efforts are more inspirational than you know.

        My efforts in my community meet as much hostile resistance from liberals as conservatives. Happy to pay the price.

      • talknic
        August 10, 2015, 12:15 am

        @ Hostage Haavara Agreement – drawn a blank at your JTA link

        link to jta.org

        For those interested link to self.gutenberg.org

      • Hostage
        August 10, 2015, 12:23 am

        @ Hostage Haavara Agreement – drawn a blank at your JTA link

        Sorry, I was trying to point readers to the news that eventually triggered the Worldwide Jewish Boycott of Germany that the Zionists deliberately chose to ignore: “Jews to Be Starved out if Hitlerists Come to Power: Boxheim Documents Were Authentic Official Statement” JTA, April 25, 1932 link to jta.org

        I hope that one works.

      • RoHa
        August 10, 2015, 3:58 am

        Psssst, Hostage!

        Brilliant, devastatingly well-informed, analysis. (Not that we ever get anything less from you.)

        But in “The reason that the Great Powers had to finally make a deal, is because Israel and the US overplayed their hands and destroyed international support for the sanctions regime” ,you’ve got a comma after a subject clause.

      • talknic
        August 10, 2015, 4:01 am

        @ Hostage

        thx

    • Citizen
      August 5, 2015, 4:31 pm

      Not to worry, Israel will keep getting even more billions from US taxpayers while they work three jobs to pay for a roof over their heads. And Iran gets the ability to use their own unfrozen assets to play their proper role in their ancient neighborhood.

    • Kay24
      August 5, 2015, 5:28 pm

      Israel is the ONLY nation against this deal, and Netanyahu is the ONLY leader that has tried to control American policies through his agents who pretend to have the best interests of the US.
      Those who hang on to Israel’s coattails (especially Congress members) will find themselves looking like idiots, when the rest of the world has already opened diplomatic channels with Iran, and they are on the wrong side. Wile E. Coyote’s cartoon bomb has backfired and it could not have happened to a more deserving troublemaker.

      • hophmi
        August 6, 2015, 8:17 am

        Yes, Israel is the only nation opposed, just as they were about the only nation to say that democracy would not break out in Egypt.

        As we all know, history is the story of how courage is defined by standing with whatever most people believe.

      • Kay24
        August 6, 2015, 9:37 am

        The man who represents Israel, Netanyahu, was also wrong about Iraq, in fact he firmly said there was “no question” Saddam Hussein was working , seeking and advancing, towards the development of nuclear weapons NO QUESTION”.

        link to youtube.com

        Netanyahu has lied, manipulated, mislead, exaggerated, and lead us to paths of no return, and the man who comes from a nation that has not signed the NPT, does not allow inspections of their nuclear facilities, and has attacked it’s neighbors too many times, expects the world to trust and believe the pot calling the kettle black. In the US it is courageous to stand up to interfering and controlling nation that has interfered too much in our policies. When it is you against the world – bet on the world.

      • hophmi
        August 6, 2015, 10:38 am

        “The man who represents Israel, Netanyahu, was also wrong about Iraq, in fact he firmly said there was “no question” Saddam Hussein was working , seeking and advancing, towards the development of nuclear weapons NO QUESTION”.”

        He was indeed. So was most of the world’s intelligence agencies, President George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and most Americans.

        “In the US it is courageous to stand up to interfering and controlling nation that has interfered too much in our policies.”

        You’re right. It’s past time to stand up against China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia.

        “When it is you against the world – bet on the world.”

        Nah, I’ll pass. The world allowed Hitler to kill six million of my people, gives dozens of dictatorships a right to make decisions about the international community, including on human rights policies, and permits a third of its inhabitants to live in dire poverty.

        Betting on the world is a nice way of encouraging injustice.

      • michelle
        August 6, 2015, 2:14 pm

        .
        @ hophmi
        where/what is this democracy you speak of
        i have been told that i was born into one that i live in one
        though when i look toward other countries i see little that is different
        and less that is better due to this democracy
        …. if it were a true democracy …. maybe
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

      • Brewer
        August 6, 2015, 4:41 pm

        “The world allowed Hitler to kill six million of my people ”

        Hoppy, I wonder if you could, just for a moment, consider how this statement is received by relatives of the 50 million among the Allies who died fighting the Axis and the millions of wounded and traumatized who survived, none of whom knew anything of the Holocaust until late in 1944.
        To allege that they “allowed” it is, to me at least, a disgustingly ignorant act.

      • just
        August 6, 2015, 4:54 pm

        +1, Brewer.

      • yonah fredman
        August 6, 2015, 5:11 pm

        Brewer- The leaders of the free world knew about the Holocaust early on (1942). Their passivity regarding the Holocaust was attributed by Jan Karski to the statelessness of the Jews.

      • tree
        August 6, 2015, 5:40 pm

        To allege that they “allowed” it is, to me at least, a disgustingly ignorant act.

        It’s more than that. Its the Zionist blood libel against all non-Jews. One that hophmi continually traffics in, along with the idea that only Jews are “his people”. He’s no more than a bigot and a hateful apologist for Israel… and of course the “outreach”guy.

      • just
        August 6, 2015, 5:45 pm

        +1, tree.

        Thanks to both you and Brewer. I couldn’t manage a decent response.

      • RoHa
        August 6, 2015, 6:32 pm

        No, Brewer, I genuinely believe that Hophmi can’t. “His” people* are the only ones he can feel any concern for. The only important events are those that involve them, and the world exists for them only. The full horror of WW2, the death and destruction from Darwin to Dalien, from Moscow to Manchester, the ruined lands and shattered lives, are simply outside his attention. He is not really aware of them. All he can see is the Holocaust, and he blames the world for that.

        And he is quite incapable of seeing that anyone else could have any other view.

        (*He can show you the receipt.)

      • Kay24
        August 6, 2015, 6:38 pm

        Hoppy, Netanyahu’s fake claim about Hussein having WMD’s was in 2002, from that time onwards he and his mindless minions have been chanting the same story, giving Cheney and other war mongers, who damn well knew the yellow cake story was concocted, yet another reason to push for war. He lied like a criminal to the Congress, and almost 10 years later stood at the UN with his cartoon bomb and lied to the entire world. Netanyahu keeps feeding BS to the world, and especially to the US, so that the pro Israeli neocons have the talking points to sell his wars. The Americans do his bidding are more loyal to the liar than to their own country.
        Here, refresh your memory:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        “You’re right. It’s past time to stand up against China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia.” Hoppy

        Why? Are they receiving billions of dollars in charity from us, weapons and being protected by us at the UN? They are not parasites, who take from us, then sell our weapons to other nations, bombed the USS Liberty, sent their terrorists to kill an American in California and then protect those terrorists by not cooperating with our investigators, and their leaders have not manipulated our congress, and disrespected on our soil, our President, like the Israeli PM has.
        All this from our dear “ally” in the ME. The ally that is called the top spying threat to the US.
        link to mondoweiss.net

        As for those who lost their lives at the Holocaust, I think Brewer has answered you well.

        Yep, time to stand up to those who have brought us nothing but trouble while pretending to be an ally.

      • lysias
        August 6, 2015, 6:47 pm

        And, like the blood libel against the Jews, this blood libel against gentiles could easily result in murderous acts by people deceived by it. Indeed, it undoubtedly already has.

      • just
        August 6, 2015, 6:48 pm

        Nicely done, Kay24.

      • straightline
        August 6, 2015, 6:52 pm

        His lies about Iran have been going on far longer than from 2002.

        link to firstlook.org

        Netanyahu 1992: ‘Netanyahu advised the Israeli Knesset that Iran was “three to five years” away from reaching nuclear weapons capability’

        Netanyahu 1995 book: ‘“Fighting Terrorism,” Netanyahu once again asserted that Iran would have a nuclear weapon in “three to five years,”’

        Then he decided that it wasn’t a good idea to put a fixed time period on it (I wonder why).

        Netanyahu 1996:
        ‘“If Iran were to acquire nuclear weapons, this could presage catastrophic consequences, not only for my country, and not only for the Middle East, but for all mankind,” adding that, “the deadline for attaining this goal is getting extremely close.”’

      • oldgeezer
        August 6, 2015, 7:57 pm

        @hophmi

        That most of the worlds western intelligence believed in the hussein nuke accusation ispure necon propaganda. Many of them stated to the contrary.

        That the world allowed hitler to kill the jewsis pure garbage. It isnt a new low for you though. Just the usual lies and despicable hate speech.

        @yonah

        The world new of the holocaust by 1942…. fine the war started in 39. We were rather occupied. If only the zionists would have as a actively involved in the fight but they didnt care enough

      • yonah fredman
        August 6, 2015, 8:06 pm

        Here’s an article about karski and reaction to him from the Brits and from FDR.link to dailymail.co.uk

        If FDR had made a big deal out of the holocaust while it was happening would that have helped deter the nazis. if the german people had been warned about the consequences of their actions would that have deterred the nazis? these are unanswerable questions. bombing the railway tracks has been discredited as a viable method of making a dent in the nazi killing machine by people who know something about making war. i don’t know. but one has to wonder about whether FDR decided not to make it an issue because of those who called wwII a jewish war. he could not get out front and say, this is one of the goals of our effort to stop this, because he had to keep the american people rallied behind the cause and he feared that antisemitism or the american first sentiment that still existed (and still exists to this day here in our very own little corner of mw comments) would view such a declaration as an impediment to the war effort. in which case, then if such an announcement would have made a difference in the behavior of the nazis and if fdr refrained from making such an announcement due to his fear of the reaction of the american people, then at least in fdr’s mind he had to hide the holocaust from the world in order to keep the american people unified in its effort because he suspected the american people of saying, “so, it is a jewish war after all” and his fear of these “anti jews” was in fact in his mind when he did (nearly?) nothing in reaction to the news brought to him by karski and others.

      • eljay
        August 6, 2015, 8:43 pm

        || RoHa: … All [hophmi] can see is the Holocaust, and he blames the world for that. … ||

        Zio-supremacists like hophmi look to acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews and conclude not that the world would be a better place if justice, accountability and equality were universally and consistently applied, but that:
        – acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews justify acts of injustice and immorality committed by Jews; and
        – Jews are entitled to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them.

        Zio-supremacists like hophmi – who advocate, support, justify and/or excuse Jewish supremacism in a supremacist “Jewish State” and related past and on-going (war) crimes – are truly hateful and immoral people.

      • Kay24
        August 6, 2015, 8:58 pm

        Straightline, Netanyahu is a serial liar, an exaggerator, and a drama queen. Has been for years.

      • Kay24
        August 6, 2015, 9:23 pm

        Nice response Brewer. I am sure Hoppy is happy he got so many great responses. :))

      • talknic
        August 6, 2015, 11:19 pm

        @ yonah fredman “Their passivity regarding the Holocaust was attributed by Jan Karski to the statelessness of the Jews”

        Odd, Jews lived as citizens of many states for centuries.

      • echinococcus
        August 7, 2015, 2:18 am

        Talknic,

        Thanks for pointing out the crazy Fredman quote. Calling “stateless” that so-called ethnic group that has hands down the highest proportion of two- and three-passport people is really a feat.

      • Brewer
        August 7, 2015, 4:00 am

        Yonah’s response deserves a far more referenced and solid refutation than I can spare the time for right now (I’ve a drainage disaster of heroic problems on my hands). But he is wrong on several counts. Karski’s account did not convince “The leaders of the free world “. Even Hilberg disputes his account. But even if it did, what action could they have taken? I have read some idiot calling them to account for not bombing the railways leading to the camps – which would have resulted in starvation earlier than it did occur in 1945.
        I may be imagining it but do I detect an effort to skew the raison d’etre of WWII into some narrative placing the plight of European Jews smack in the forefront? I was born three years after the end of that War but I can attest that I ingested it with my mother’s milk. All of the men who impressed my childhood had served. My favourite uncle was captured (in France) and interned by the Nazis, escaped and was recaptured in the Western Desert and again interned in a POW camp. The Jewish situation was not a blip on his radar. His experience was such that he never again grew bodily hair.
        We (and let me remind you that I am a Kiwi, the nation that contributed over twice as many War dead per head of population than the U.S.) fought against what we thought was an attempt at hegemony (kinda like what the U.S. appears to be fighting for in this era) – but that’s another story – one that sheds light on the common political realities that accompany disproportionate power incidentally.
        Let me be very clear Yonah and Hophmi. If you push this barrow too hard, it will overturn.

      • Brewer
        August 7, 2015, 4:25 am

        Sorry for the double post. Obviously I exceeded the the word limit in trying to elucidate a point and my edit got posted twice, without the addendum. Too tired to re-write. Hope the mods will delete the dupe.

      • straightline
        August 7, 2015, 5:28 am

        @Kay24 I know he is, and I know you know he is but, since the MSM conveniently forgets to tell the public this, it is important to keep putting the message out.

        In Australia, and I know it’s also true in the US, we are constantly being told by “pundits” in the MSM what we should do in the Middle East by people who told the lies that caused many of the current problems.

      • just
        August 7, 2015, 6:52 am

        Brewer~ I very much appreciate your comments here, and this last one bears repeating even though you didn’t mean to post twice!

        “Let me be very clear Yonah and Hophmi. If you push this barrow too hard, it will overturn.”

        As it should. It’s despicable.

        I am sorry for your “drainage disaster” and hope that it is resolved without heaps of difficulty and worry and more.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 7, 2015, 8:29 am

        I may be imagining it but do I detect an effort to skew the raison d’etre of WWII into some narrative placing the plight of European Jews smack in the forefront? I was born three years after the end of that War but I can attest that I ingested it with my mother’s milk. All of the men who impressed my childhood had served.

        brewer, i’m part of this generation too — and the memories that come with it for the same reasons you mention. i don’t think you’re imagining, i think our history is being manipulated.

        and tree, right on.

      • hophmi
        August 7, 2015, 11:38 am

        “All he can see is the Holocaust, and he blames the world for that.”

        Actually, that’s a better description of you than it is of me. I can see the world for what it is and people for what they are, and my people especially owe nothing to anyone when it comes to caring about others besides us.

        You’re the type of callous person who would ask a father whose wife and children were murdered by a home invader to move back into the house where they were killed.

      • RoHa
        August 7, 2015, 12:16 pm

        “do I detect an effort to skew the raison d’etre of WWII into some narrative placing the plight of European Jews smack in the forefront? ”

        That’s the way it seems to me, thoguh it also seems that the effort has been going on for a long time, and getting more and more intense.

        I was born in 1946, and I saw a lot of the films and books from the fifties. The European Jews were included in the picture, but not the central issue. In the sixties, they became a more prominent part of the story. Now they are the story.

      • RoHa
        August 7, 2015, 1:08 pm

        And “thoguh” is a good word.

      • eljay
        August 7, 2015, 2:02 pm

        || hophmi: … You’re the type of callous person who would ask a father whose wife and children were murdered by a home invader to move back into the house where they were killed. ||

        Your indignation is amusing, given that you’re the type of hateful and immoral person who would encourage a co-collectivist father whose wife and children were murdered by a home invader to invade someone else’s home, drive out or kill most of the family and then claim the home for himself.

      • Brewer
        August 7, 2015, 2:10 pm

        Hoppy.
        You’re the type of callous person who would ask a father whose wife and children were murdered by a home invader to move back into the house where they were killed.

        Once again you give us a peek into the mind of a Zionist, and what a bizarre sight that is. Did you forget that this forum is dominated by folk who sympathize with Palestinians who would like nothing more than to move back into the houses where their forbears were subjected to just such an evil as you claim – as your shield, your mantra and your exclusive property.
        One would have to cast a very wide net to ensnare a more vivid example of the perversity at the very heart of Zionist thought.

      • RoHa
        August 7, 2015, 2:16 pm

        “You’re the type of callous person who would ask a father whose wife and children were murdered by a home invader to move back into the house where they were killed. ”

        I certainly would not encourage him to take over someone else’s house.

      • just
        August 7, 2015, 2:38 pm

        “I can see the world for what it is and people for what they are, and my people especially owe nothing to anyone when it comes to caring about others besides us.”

        You’ve only managed to prove nearly every single one of Avigail Abarbanel’s points in her many comments and articles here, hophmi.

        You put your tribe, your cult, your people above all other people and concerns in the world~ that’s not human, it’s sick. Israel is a sick society. Your comment says much about you and is disgusting, imo.

        Brewer and RoHa~ thanks again for your comments.

      • Bornajoo
        August 7, 2015, 3:06 pm

        “You’ve only managed to prove nearly every single one of Avigail Abarbanel’s points in her many comments and articles here.

        You put your tribe, your cult, your people above all other people and concerns in the world~ that’s not human, it’s sick. Israel is a sick society. Your comment says much about you and is disgusting, imo.”

        Thank you Just. Absolutely spot on. +100!

        Unfortunately nothing will get through to hophmi unless he undergoes intensive de-programming

      • Mooser
        August 7, 2015, 3:11 pm

        “The world allowed Hitler to kill six million of my people,”

        And we owe you for all of them, “your people”, too? Gosh, this is a debt which can never be repaid. The world is so screwed. We will always be under obligations to you and “your people”.

      • Brewer
        August 7, 2015, 3:18 pm

        RoHa
        I thoguht so too!
        Thnaks to all.

        Oh well, back to the drains.

      • echinococcus
        August 7, 2015, 3:34 pm

        Just,

        Continuing on your observation, I think (without having much to do with psychology) we can diagnose the problem. Unfortunately it will have to called a treif name: the Miss Piggy syndrome. Because “It’s all about Me”.

      • echinococcus
        August 7, 2015, 3:55 pm

        hophmi,

        You’re the type of callous person who would ask a father whose wife and children were murdered by a home invader to move back into the house where they were killed

        Correct, hophmi. Great insight. I don’t know about RoHa, but I effectively continue to insist that the war is finished, Nazism has been defeated and salt sown into its foundations (no thanks to the Zionists!) and that everyone can now go back to their respective countries as there is not the shred of any excuse to colonize any other peoples. It’s never too late to do the right thing.
        But of course, that does not touch you at all; being snugly somewhere in the US anyway, you won’t have to go back to the Bronx or wherever it is you are from.

      • just
        August 7, 2015, 4:26 pm

        Perhaps not so ‘treif’ anymore, echinococcus.

        “Hebrew National serving up bacon in summer ad”

        link to jta.org

        Thanks Bornajoo @ 3:06 pm. ;-(((

      • echinococcus
        August 7, 2015, 6:40 pm

        Bornajoo,

        If it’s Hebrew National, that’s special –they’re exempt, you see: their slogan is “We Answer to a Higher Authority”.

        link to youtube.com

      • Kris
        August 7, 2015, 8:59 pm

        @hophmi: “I can see the world for what it is and people for what they are, and my people especially owe nothing to anyone when it comes to caring about others besides us.”

        Can you provide any citations for that unbelievable claim? You mean Israel, not Cuba, right, when you say “my people”? Israel, unlike Cuba, is not known for generosity or compassion or helping non-Jews.

        Cuba, though very poor, is the country that has done the most to help people beyond its borders, through providing free medical training to foreign students, providing free cataract surgery to poor people throughout Latin American, through sending doctors to serve poor communities all over the world, and through providing comprehensive help worldwide following disasters.

        Cuba has been quietly performing countless acts of mercy for decades, despite the crippling U.S. embargo. I’d love to know of anything Israel has done (for longer than it takes to have some photo ops) for non-Jews.

      • talknic
        August 10, 2015, 1:04 am

        @ hophmi “As we all know, history is the story of how courage is defined by standing with whatever most people believe”

        Yeeeup. Most people once thought the earth was flat. You’d have to be courageous to keep that up today. Like Israel didn’t proclaim any borders or there was no occupation before 1967 or any of the crappolla coming from Israel’s apologists … link to wp.me

      • talknic
        August 10, 2015, 1:09 am

        hophmi “You’re the type of callous person who would ask a father whose wife and children were murdered by a home invader to move back into the house where they were killed”

        Uh huh … link to forward.com

    • Sibiriak
      August 7, 2015, 2:11 pm

      hophmi: Today’s speech supported Israel’s qualitative military edge and called Iran’s behavior “offensive and incendiary.” It also said that no one could blame Israel for being skeptical of Iran, a regime that had adopted an ideology of “antisemitism” and had “denied the Holocaust.” The President supported enhanced security cooperation between the US and Israel.

      —————————
      Yep, there’s very little difference between a neocon imperialist and a liberal imperialist. The Iran deal indicates at least one point of contrast, though.

  9. yourstruly
    August 5, 2015, 3:53 pm

    Proposal for Dual bumper stickers

    1) Down With Israel Firsters

    2) Delegitimize Israel

    • Vikram
      August 5, 2015, 4:02 pm

      There is no need to delegitimize Israel. It was never legitimate in the first place, unless one considers ethnic cleansing to be legitimate.

      • tokyobk
        August 5, 2015, 8:58 pm

        Actually most of the world considered the (usually forgotten) ethnically cleansed soil at their feet to be quite legitimate. Its a good thing if this has changed since cleansing should be illegitimate.

      • Marnie
        August 6, 2015, 12:04 am

        So true.

  10. just
    August 5, 2015, 5:11 pm

    “Obama accuses Iran deal opponents of luring Congress toward Middle East war

    ….. I have had to make a lot of tough calls as US president, but whether this deal is good for American security is not one of those tough calls,” he added. “It’s not even close.”

    In a rare move, the speech was also aired live on Iranian state television, to the astonishment of some viewers. “It’s stunning that the Iranian TV is airing the #ObamaAtAU live now. millions watching..powerful defence of #Irandeal,” tweeted Iranian journalist Omid Memarian.

    This was not the first time Iran’s national television broadcast a speech by Obama. Obama’s formal presidential address announcing that diplomats in Vienna had reached a historic agreement was also broadcast live in Iran last month.

    Iran’s state TV also streamed US secretary of state John Kerry’s grilling before Congress late last month, but the network stole a live feed and simultaneous translation from the BBC’s Persian service, which is loathed by the Iranian establishment. The BBC eventually relocated their watermark to the center of the screen in retaliation, abruptly ending the pirated broadcast mid-stream.

    White House efforts have begun to pay dividends, with several key Democrats coming out in favor of the deal this week. Three senators who were viewed as on the fence – Bill Nelson of Florida, Tim Kaine of Virginia and Barbara Boxer of California – all backed the president on Tuesday, and as did several House Democrats.

    Some early defections include Jewish Democrats in Congress, who have been sceptical of the deal since the beginning. But at least one of them – Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee – sided with Obama in a sign that momentum for the agreement is growing within the president’s party.

    McConnell nonetheless highlighted on Wednesday the congressional Democrats who have criticised the deal as evidence of “growing bipartisan concern”.

    “It’s clear this deal is making members of both parties uneasy – and with good reason,” McConnell said on the Senate floor ahead of Obama’s speech. “Senators and the American people are being asked to weigh the consequences of what it would mean to allow Iran to become a nuclear threshold state with the power to dominate its neighbors, spread its influence, and threaten our allies. This is a serious decision to make, with serious consequences for our country. America deserves a debate worthy of it.”

    McConnell would still need 13 Democrats in the Senate to buck the president and join Republicans to override a veto. In the House, 44 Democrats would be needed to do the same.

    The odds, at least for now, appear to be shifting in Obama’s favor – but it was clear the president was taking nothing for granted on Wednesday.

    “As members of Congress reflect on their pending decision, I urge them to set aside political concerns, shut out the noise, consider the stakes involved with the vote that you will cast cast,” he said. “If Congress kills this deal, we will lose more than just constraints on Iran’s nuclear program or the sanctions we have painstakingly built. We will have lost something more precious: America’s credibility as a leader of diplomacy and the anchor of the international system.””

    link to theguardian.com

    No mention of “abrogation of my constitutional duty” in this article either, Qualtrough. Odd.

    • Marnie
      August 6, 2015, 12:07 am

      Was this a “whoops, forgot that bit” or was it the deliberate abrogation of responsible reporting when the reporters/networks/newspapers/neocons don’t like the message? You can’t hide from the truth.

  11. Abierno
    August 5, 2015, 5:13 pm

    Obama is absolutely correct; this is an important speech. Not only is he check mating Netanyahu but he is positioning the U.S. for the upcoming fall of the current Likkud government and the accession of a far more right leaning government in Israel, more probably than not under Naftali Bennett. He is also aware that the 1 in N5 + 1, does not stand for the U.S. Congress, unlike all of those congress persons genuflecting to Netanyahu and AIPAC. Whereas Clinton, Schumer, and the gaggle of Republican presidential candidates are channeling Saban, Adelson, the Koch brothers, etc., he is channeling Dennis Muilenberg (CEO Boeing), Rex Tilletson (CEO Exxon Mobile) and Mary Barra (CEO GM) etc., whose companies’ health are crucial and essential to the U.S. economy. While our Congress is unable to see across the Potomac, he clearly views the line up in downtown Iran of our allies and competitors (China, Russia) rushing to establish themselves in the giganto enormous resources and markets, with massive pent up demand. Finally, the acronyms BRICS, SCO and ADB (Asia. Development Bank) are not just letters on a page but very real threats to the petrodollar as the world reserve currency. He, Kerry and the rest of the team are to be lauded for their efforts, they are well and truly patriots of this country at the first rank.

    • David Doppler
      August 5, 2015, 5:47 pm

      “upcoming fall of the current Likud government”

      Amen, Abierno.

      “the accession of a far more right leaning government in Israel, more probably than not under Naftali Bennett”

      No way, my friend. Likud would not have beaten Zionist Union, but for Netanyahu’s last second appeal about “Only Likud. Only Netanyahu.” with images of Arabs being bused to the polls, and a promise never to make peace, resulting in a surge away from Bennett to Netanyahu.

      A new election would surely put Herzog over the top, especially as the Right’s failures resonate.

      If the right wing strengthens, and unites behind Bennett (with Netanyahu ceding power and supporting him, which would never happen, but would have to because a divided right wing will easily fall to the large middle), well, then, it will be over for Israel in the world of nations, and in the US.

      Bennett: all of the barbs, none of the charisma, of Netanyahu.

      There will be a natural alliance between Obama and Herzog. If Obama wins in this surprising show of strength in this signature battle, Israel will have every incentive to change its leadership, and the world will be a safer place with Netanyahu and the rest of his right wing nuts off of the nuclear button, and out of the command chair at IDF.

      • a blah chick
        August 5, 2015, 7:10 pm

        “There will be a natural alliance between Obama and Herzog. If Obama wins in this surprising show of strength in this signature battle, Israel will have every incentive to change its leadership, and the world will be a safer place with Netanyahu and the rest of his right wing nuts off of the nuclear button, and out of the command chair at IDF.”

        Herzog has said nothing to indicate that his policies would be any different than Netanyahu’s, in fact he’s come out against the Iran deal. He supported the carnage in Gaza. He refuses to team up with the Joint List to provide a real opposition and spends all his time trying to convince the Jewish Israeli public that he’s not a lefty and hates Arabs as much as they do. Herzog as PM would only allow the government there to sport a more polite veneer on their awful policies.

        The only reason he wants to be PM is because he’s a member of the Zionist elite and it’s his turn.

      • Abierno
        August 5, 2015, 11:21 pm

        Actually, Likkud and the far right won 46% of the most recent vote with an additional 4% being accounted for by rightist parties that didn’t make the cut. 10 % were the United Arab party with whom no one in Israel politics will make a coalition. Thus, even if Herzog were to win a majority he will be unable to cobble together the necessary 61 votes.Tzipi Livni was in this position several years ago and Netanyhu stepped in and pulled together all the rightist and religious parties to become PM. The wind shifted long ago,Israel will continue to move further and further to the right. Most of Likkud is even further to the right than Netanyahu, with many stating that the Iran deal is the worst diplomatic failure in Israel’s history. The government will fall when Abbas, Jordan and the Arab league arrive at the Security Council with the wind of the ICC at their backs. Predictably Israel will show its defiance by electing an even more instransignient government – like Bennet, who told Haim Sabin, “the world is a little thing.”
        The assumption is that irrespective of the violence, killing and land theft the U.S. Will continue the daily $10 million dollar handouts.

    • piotr
      August 5, 2015, 7:55 pm

      Abierno: “positioning the U.S. for the upcoming fall of the current Likkud government” ????

      It is not easy to make a coalition without Likud, given the abhorrence that center-left has for relying on Palestinian votes. In any case, Zionist Union and Yesh Atid differ a little on that, most probably they would oppose the deal with Iran less histrionically, but who knows if they would be more effective (and what should we care).

      The only changes that I could see is an anti-haredi coalition, but it is not easy (and what should we care). And on “cottage cheese” issues it is hard to tell if the center-left has any edge.

      For Palestinian issue, there will be no immediate changes, but the habit of automatic deference to Israel will most probably be gone. I expect that pretty soon the media establishment will discover that this pinnacle of deference to our “most important ally” was not all that long, definitely less than 20 years. It is the nature of the Lobby to always claim a crisis and always fight for more, and if the fight (and donation) would stop, the sky would most assuredly fall. The effective intelligence level of Iran strategy of the Lobby was about the same as among micro-organism moving toward a higher concentration of nutrients. Those that do not move in such a way loose Darwinian competition.

      • Bornajoo
        August 6, 2015, 10:58 am

        “Herzog has said nothing to indicate that his policies would be any different than Netanyahu’s, in fact he’s come out against the Iran deal. He supported the carnage in Gaza. He refuses to team up with the Joint List to provide a real opposition and spends all his time trying to convince the Jewish Israeli public that he’s not a lefty and hates Arabs as much as they do. Herzog as PM would only allow the government there to sport a more polite veneer on their awful policies.

        The only reason he wants to be PM is because he’s a member of the Zionist elite and it’s his turn.”

        +1 abc! Great comment. I absolutely agree.

  12. just
    August 5, 2015, 5:53 pm

    Headline @ Haaretz on Barak Ravid’s article:

    “Obama Isolates Netanyahu as Head of Warmongers

    In a speech that is liable to be seen as turning point in U.S.-Israeli relations, president clarified that the two countries’ security interests are not always the same.”

    read more: link to haaretz.com

    Excellent.

    *sigh of relief*

  13. lysias
    August 5, 2015, 5:58 pm

    Obama delivered this speech at American University, the same place where JFK delivered his speech calling for an end to the Cold War, a few months before he was assassinated. I think that, in choosing this venue, Obama meant to underline the importance of the speech.

  14. Bandolero
    August 5, 2015, 6:08 pm

    I disagree with the title – and much of the tenor of this MW article.

    Obama tells Americans it is ‘abrogation of my constitutional duty’ to defer to Israel on Iran Deal

    Obama didn’t say that. He said:

    I recognize that prime minister Netanyahu disagrees, disagrees strongly. I do not doubt his sincerity, but I believe he is wrong. I believe the facts support this deal. I believe they are in America’s interests and Israel’s interests, and as president of the United States it would be an abrogation of my constitutional duty to act against my best judgment simply because it causes temporary friction with a dear friend and ally.

    To me that sounds more like Obama says it would be an ‘abrogation of my constitutional duty’ to defer to Netanyahu on the Iran Deal – and he does so because he thinks it’s in the best interest of America and Israel to do so.

    And regarding confronting the Israel lobby in that speech head on, I would say it requires a lot of imagination and background knowledge to see it as Obama did this. To me it looks more the other way round. Obama slimed submissive to Israel and the lobby and spread a lot of hatred against Iran in the service of the lobby – but at least he defended the deal. That maybe in the end what counts, but only if, and that’s a big if, or a huge bet if you will, he will use the chance of the deal to built on it moving to cooperation with Iran in the future and stop hostility against Iran to please Israel. I do think that the logical course of action is that Obama will do that in the future, because without that the whole effort to get the deal would be pointless, but I don’t see it as guaranteed, and in no way I can see it in this speech.

    Stephen Walt put up an interesting article a couple of days ago, which outlines this important point:

    Even the reasonable people in Washington are still talking about containing Tehran — which is why the United States is about to squander a rare opportunity.

    link to foreignpolicy.com

    The Leverett’s said that the deal is a very, very good step in the right direction, however, to have a real effect on reality, (like ending existing Western Asia wars and avoiding new ones) it must be followed by further steps (of rapprochement with Iran).

    I agree with that analysis. I’m willing to bet that some form of of rapprochement with Iran will come after this deal, because the US alliance with the sponsors of Al Qaeda is unsustainable, however in Obama’s speech I saw no sign of it. Obama was all occupied declaring his big love for the axis of sponsors of Al Qaeda while showing hostility to Iran.

    • irishmoses
      August 5, 2015, 8:22 pm

      Good comments, Bandolero. A bit too much MW optimism.

      I’d point out that Obama will likely hold off on really strong criticism of Israel and Netanyahu until the agreement is ratified. Once that happens, we can hope he’ll cut the cords and work on redoing US ME relationships while ending the entangling one-way alliance with our so-called great ally.

      He’ll be in a great position to do so if he has the moxie. If he does, he’ll go down as one of the great presidents.

      • Jabberwocky
        August 6, 2015, 2:43 am

        Hopefully, once the deal is done he can use the lobbying by Israel as an example of AIPAC working as the agent of a foreign power and force legal registration changes for AIPAC.

        Let’s finish what JFK tried to do!

      • hophmi
        August 6, 2015, 10:40 am

        “Once that happens, we can hope he’ll cut the cords and work on redoing US ME relationships while ending the entangling one-way alliance with our so-called great ally.”

        Spoken like one who is fooling himself.

      • irishmoses
        August 6, 2015, 2:44 pm

        Per Hophni,

        “Spoken like one who is fooling himself.”

        You’re probably right, Hops, but then again, he has nothing to lose, no more elections, not going to get any donations for his presidential library from those folks, and Congress is a lost cause for any decent legislation. So all he has left is foreign policy and a mess in the Middle East he could have some impact on. Plus, he has a lot of time left.

        He’s also been showing some moxie-ish signs. e.g. Cuba, and some of his executive action, plus he’s had some significant victories from the courts. He’s kind of on a roll and the Lobby has no leverage with him anymore.

        He’s in a great position to get some important things done and could use his bully pulpit and speaking skills to great advantage.

        I may be dreaming, but there’s at least some basis for my optimism.

      • Bornajoo
        August 6, 2015, 11:07 am

        “He’ll be in a great position to do so if he has the moxie. If he does, he’ll go down as one of the great presidents.”

        Well, whatever” moxie” actually means I don’t believe he has it. I do think something positive will happen for the Palestinians but only if the deal is defeated

      • Bornajoo
        August 6, 2015, 11:13 am

        Just looked up “moxie”.

        “force of character, determination, or nerve.”

        Great word. Thanks. But nah…. He doesn’t have enough moxie to do that in my opinion. But he might do something out of revenge if the deal is defeated

      • RoHa
        August 6, 2015, 11:19 am

        Don’t watch old films, read old thrillers?

        It was the name of a soft drink, once a rival to Coke.

      • Bornajoo
        August 6, 2015, 11:34 am

        Thanks RoHa. I guess I never noticed it before. It is indeed the origin of the word. Introduced in 1876 and still going today. From Wikipedia:

        “Moxie is a brand of carbonated beverage that was an early example of mass-produced soft drinks in the United States. It continues to be regionally popular today. It is produced by the Moxie Beverage Company of Bedford, New Hampshire, which (through several levels of wholly owned subsidiaries) is part of the Kirin Holdings Company of Tokyo, Japan). As a result of widespread brand advertising, the brand name has become the word “moxie” in the English language, meaning “courage, daring, or spirit”.
        link to en.m.wikipedia.org

      • irishmoses
        August 6, 2015, 12:00 pm

        “Moxie”

        I would have guessed a Yiddish origin. In fact, it’s got to have had an origin other than a soft drink name. Why would you pick Moxie unless it had some other association or meaning? Gotta be Yiddish.

      • tree
        August 6, 2015, 1:23 pm

        Gotta be Yiddish.

        You didn’t read all of Bornajoo’s link. It’s most likely from a Native American word.

        While Thompson claimed that he named the beverage after a Lieutenant Moxie,[2] a purported friend of his who he claimed had discovered the plant and used it as a panacea, and the company he created continued to promulgate legendary stories about the word’s origin, it likely derives from an Abenaki word that means “dark water” and which is found in lake and river names in Maine, where Thompson was born and raised.[5]

      • irishmoses
        August 6, 2015, 2:32 pm

        “Abenaki”

        That’s gotta be Yiddish too. Where’s Mooser? He knows this stuff.

      • Mooser
        August 6, 2015, 3:18 pm

        I’ve never had Moxie, but I have fond memories of the “Dr. Browns Cel-Ray” used to drink that when I went to visit my relatives in Brooklyn.

      • inbound39
        August 7, 2015, 6:44 pm

        There is much chatter on the Internet that once the deal is done Obama plans on recognising a Palestinian State and more or less setting up a virtual Palestinian State that will tie up Netanyahu and the Right Wings Settlement program. EU is apparently behind it also. Obama may table a Resolution with the Security Council at the UN. Huffington Post has the best current article on it.

      • CigarGod
        August 7, 2015, 8:39 pm

        Cant possibly be true, but Im going to smoke a cigar anyway.

      • just
        August 7, 2015, 8:43 pm

        Could you link to the article, inbound39?

        I looked and failed to find it.

        (glad you’re still around)

        lol, CG! It’s Friday, after all. ;-)

    • Sibiriak
      August 6, 2015, 12:47 am

      Good post Bandolero.

      This pretty much sums it up for me:

      Obama slimed submissive to Israel and the lobby and spread a lot of hatred against Iran in the service of the lobby – but at least he defended the deal.

      But not only “in service of the lobby”– in service of the bi-partisan U.S. Establishment geopolitical worldview.

      • inbound39
        August 8, 2015, 9:07 am

        Attention “just”….couldn’t find the article at Huffington Post again either but found the same article at the Washington Post……. link to washingtonpost.com

    • Boomer
      August 6, 2015, 6:01 am

      I agree Bandolero, Philip’s heart may be in the right place, but he (like all humans) sometimes twists things to conform to his preferred view of the world (or of Obama). I rarely agree with hophmi, but in this case I have to agree with him too. He observed, “Today’s speech supported Israel’s qualitative military edge and called Iran’s behavior “offensive and incendiary.” It also said that no one could blame Israel for being skeptical of Iran, a regime that had adopted an ideology of “antisemitism” and had “denied the Holocaust.” The President supported enhanced security cooperation between the US and Israel.”

      I would ask, what has Obama done to help Palestinians, or to reduce America’s complicity in their oppression?

  15. Kay24
    August 5, 2015, 7:24 pm

    So this is an interesting article:

    Israel, Not Iran, Started Middle East Nuclear Arms Race\

    “Israel has never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has never admitted it has a nuclear weapons arsenal. The United States stopped protesting the Israeli program in the Nixon administration. Neither Jerusalem nor Washington publicly discusses Israel’s arsenal. If pressed, US officials refer to an alleged nuclear arsenal.

    The Economist this year estimated Israel has 80 nuclear weapons in its arsenal. That puts it just behind India and far ahead of North Korea in terms of the number of bombs.

    Israel has a triad of nuclear delivery systems. Its US-supplied F-15 and F-16 aircraft can deliver nuclear weapons anywhere in the Middle East. The Israeli air force has a well-deserved reputation as the best air force in the region with the best pilots. It has twice destroyed incipient nuclear programs in Iraq (1981) and Syria (2007).”

    link to usnews.com

    • straightline
      August 5, 2015, 8:47 pm

      A few remarks in that US News article:

      1. “Israel has a right to develop a nuclear arsenal” But not Iran apparently!

      2. “Iran fights to the last Lebanese, Palestinian, Syrian, Iraqi or Yemeni” And what would be the Western response if Iranian soldiers were on the ground in those countries?

      3. “The Israeli military has demonstrated repeatedly that it is capable of dealing with these threats [Hamas and Hezbollah]” Really? Hezbollah?

      4. “The Iranian deal may be flawed” How? No explanation!

      But I guess it is better than Fox and it is getting the message to a wider audience.

      • straightline
        August 6, 2015, 1:04 am

        Answering myself and repeating what I have said several times on MW, it’s all over! This is not about whether the sanctions on Iran will continue. It is about whether the US will be party to the deal. The other P5+1 countries are heading to Iran in a big way:

        link to theguardian.com

        Let the US miss out on the fun if it wants to. Let it shoot itself in the foot as it has done over the QME – see Bandolero on another thread. The rest of the world will drop the sanctions. Ultimately if the US fails to sign up it will lose – not Israel. Israel will probably break US sanctions in any case – it has done before.

        link to ynetnews.com

      • hophmi
        August 6, 2015, 10:42 am

        “This is not about whether the sanctions on Iran will continue. It is about whether the US will be party to the deal. The other P5+1 countries are heading to Iran in a big way.”

        Yep, but they won’t be able to do a dime’s worth of business if they can’t access US banks. Europeans are not going to give up doing business with the United States to do business with Iran. Sorry to say, the notion that the sanctions regime is over whether Congress quashes the deal or not is complete balderdash.

      • straightline
        August 6, 2015, 2:06 pm

        And if the US tries to prevent trade with Iran by closing access to the banks then this process will just be hastened:

        link to moneymorning.com

        link to businessinsider.com.au

        The US Congress ought to realize that they are not voting for or against sanctions but for or against US involvement in trade with Iran. And where China and Russia go, the Europeans will not be far behind. They have no loyalty to the US.

        link to globalresearch.ca

        Although, it looks like – or should logically appear – that Europe is waking up. Even the most stubborn stooges of Washington are gradually seeing the light. Hungary and Poland, historically not great friends of Russia, are wondering whether they might not be better off with the east, rather than licking Obama’s boots. German business is angry about Merkel’s obsessiveness with Washington imposed ‘sanctions’. They see Russia as the trading partner of the future, as it has been until Washington didn’t succeed in Ukraine – today an almost hopeless but still murderous basket case – and wanted to crush Vladimir Putin and his country. Even the spine and brainless Hollande is responding to France’s business – ‘sanctions’ – enough is enough.

        link to zerohedge.com

        Even the UK and Australia have joined the AIIB against US wishes.

      • straightline
        August 6, 2015, 2:59 pm

        A couple more:

        link to truthandaction.org

        link to orientalreview.org

        link to bloomberg.com

        And even my own pro-Zionist country, Australia, is getting in on the act:

        link to en.trend.az

      • MRW
        August 6, 2015, 3:02 pm

        @hophmi,

        Yep, but they won’t be able to do a dime’s worth of business if they can’t access US banks. Europeans are not going to give up doing business with the United States to do business with Iran.

        What an idiotic statement. You haven’t heard of the Euro? The Federal Reserve doesn’t control the Euro, and EU savings aren’t all parked at the Federal Reserve. A cursory look at foreign-owned US treasury securities could tell you that in a heartbeat.

        Don’t forget that if other countries in the world don’t want to hold their net savings in USD, the USD is dead as a reserve currency. Gone.

        EDIT: We get away with murder being the reserve currency (as a federal government). We get to buy their stuff for the cost of a keystroke, oil included. Once our reserve currency status is gone, we’ll have to hold foreign currencies to purchase foreign goods. That’s a real cost to us.

      • Bandolero
        August 6, 2015, 7:52 pm

        hophmi

        Europeans are not going to give up doing business with the United States to do business with Iran.

        Well, maybe, maybe not. If the US just unilaterally declares next month that it will sanction every EU entity doing business with Iran, watch for SWIFT. If Iran abides by the deal SWIFT is obliged by EU decision to do business with Iran. If the US just unilaterally declares it will breach the JCPOA and do no business with EU and SWIFT anymore, than, since SWIFT is doing the payments, there will be just no EU-US-business anymore.

        Of course, this won’t happen. There will be politicking to get a more sensible decision. However, there the US must convince the EU Commission and the member countries to reverse course and sanction Iran. That will be a tough sell for the US. The main EU argument will be that the EU doesn’t want the Iran business to be a gift to China.

        And here the whole strategy of rejecting the Iran deal to get something better goes broke. To get over that snag the US must fight and win a trade war against China, so that China abandons Iran. It means to go back to a new cold war. The US can’t fight that alone.

        But don’t count on Germany’s help on this. German politics is VW and VW makes the bulk of it’s money in China. Other major German companies have similar structured balance sheets. German state debt is reportedly also sold a lot to China. And the German public is 70 to 20 for the Iran deal and economic relations with Iran.

        So here’s what Obama just said on this situation:

        If, as has also been suggested, we tried to maintain unilateral sanctions, beefen them up, we would be standing alone. We cannot dictate the foreign, economic and energy policies of every major power in the world. In order to even try to do that, we would have to sanction, for example, some of the world’s largest banks. We’d have to cut off countries like China from the American financial system. And since they happen to be major purchasers of our debt, such actions could trigger severe disruptions in our own economy, and, by way, raise questions internationally about the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency. That’s part of the reason why many of the previous unilateral sanctions were waived.

        Show that Obama is wrong on this. Btw, I’m not against realizing your idea of disrupting trade between the US and the EU, because I think it will break NATO and I think that would be a great achievement, only comparable in scale to George W. Bush’s great achievement of spending a trillion of Dollars to hand over Iraq to Iran.

      • straightline
        August 7, 2015, 10:32 pm

        SWIFT on internationalization of RMB:

        link to swift.com

        I’m not sure why my last post mentioning RMB was “modded” but as I tried to say then, this is not about the EU – that’s not the elephant in the room – it’s China. And how would the US blockade trade between Iran and China?

        link to presstv.com

        Echoing Bandolero, go to China (as I have very recently) and see the VWs, Audis, Mercedes on the roads there – much larger proportion than in Australia.

        A propos your last remark Bandolero. I once heard a phone-in program about Iran in which an Iranian caller said that the US was Iran’s greatest friend. When asked why, he said “It has destroyed our two traditional enemies, Iraq and Afghanistan”.

      • piotr
        August 8, 2015, 9:14 am

        Israel surely know how to deal with Hezbollah threats. Quite recently, Israel killed some senior officers of Hezbollah and Iran. Two weeks later, Hezbollah killed two Israeli soldiers and wounded several more in Shebaa Farms (Israel views them as a part of Golan, Lebanon views them as a part of Lebanon), so Israel decided to (a) have the last shot and (b) avoid dangerous escalation. Thus they killed a Spanish UN peacekeeper. Spain announced that they are miffed, and thus the situation was de facto resolved.

    • Boomer
      August 6, 2015, 6:07 am

      Kay24, good points about Israel’s nukes. Actually, I believe former President Carter cited an even higher number years ago. As a prior recipient of CIA briefings, he would be in a position to know. Though in truth, after the first few dozen, I’m not sure how important a few more are.

      • Kay24
        August 6, 2015, 7:49 am

        The hypocrisy from Israel is nauseating. The pot always keeps calling the kettle black.

  16. Les
    August 5, 2015, 7:35 pm

    For those who share this news in the cybersphere, be sure to include “abrogation of my constitutional duty” in your subject heading since so many media outlets, including Haaretz, are deliberately not citing that phrase nor its breakthrough nature in the history of US Israeli relations.

    • tokyobk
      August 5, 2015, 9:57 pm

      Obama is a very measured person. He does not say things randomly and tries his best not to off-the-cuff which is not his talent (hence teleprompters always). It is a very specific and as you say historical point.

  17. David Doppler
    August 5, 2015, 8:13 pm

    A great speech, now that I’ve watched it all. There’s a lot of relevant, and portentous background, in his choice of American University, and his recalling of President Kennedy’s speech there in 1963, in Douglas’s JFK and the Unspeakable.

    Kennedy, having survived the Cuban-Missile Crisis, used the speech to announce a unilateral halt to atmospheric nuclear tests, which began the process of reversing the arms race, and earned himself a hardening of the opposition to him within his own military- industrial complex, who regarded his actions as treasonous, worse than Chamberlain at Munich. Five and a half months later he was dead. Much of the detail about how his death was plotted and by whom is obscured by their cover-up, but the book documents that there were plans to pull it off and concrete actions to implement those during a prior trip scheduled to Chicago a month or two earlier, foiled by a change of schedule. It is within reason to hypothesize that his AU speech was an important catalyst for the events that led to his assassination, and Douglass makes the case pretty compellingly.

    So Obama pulled out an important symbol today, in his choice of location, and the direct invocation of that speech. He’ll fight with everything he’s got. And it’s about time he stood tall and fearless and drew a line in the sand. Herzog could take a lesson.

    • Patrick
      August 5, 2015, 9:26 pm

      The parallel with Kennedy’s speech (his finest one) is the first thing that came to mind when I heard that Obama had given his address at American University.

  18. JLewisDickerson
    August 5, 2015, 9:12 pm

    RE: “Obama tells Americans it is ‘abrogation of my constitutional duty’ to defer to Israel on Iran Deal”

    MY COMMENT: But the monetary rewards are so damn enticing! ! !*
    And there is that presidential library to raise funds for.
    Meanwhile, back at “comb-over central” . . .

    * FROM THE CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS (opensecrets.org) AS OF 8/03/15:

    ● Pro-Israel: Money to Congress
    • SUMMARY
    • All cycles

    Dems: $71,700,750
    Repubs: $43,054,007
    Other: $1,552,596
    All Candidates: Total to All Candidates: $116,307,353
    Incumbents Only: Total to Members: $93,416,000

    House
    Party / # of Members / Avg. Contribution / Total
    Democrats 1,554 $16,821 $28,077,908
    Republicans 1,083 $14,814 $17,055,956
    Independents 2 $836 $11,700
    TOTAL 2,639 $17,107 $45,145,564
    The US House of Representatives has 435 members and 5 non-voting delegates.
    Totals may exceed 440 due to mid-term replacements.

    Senate
    Party / # of Members / Avg. Contribution / Total
    Democrats 388 $75,287 $30,202,925
    Republicans 310 $51,035 $16,639,371
    Independents 5 $93,965 $1,366,890
    TOTAL 703 $68,576 $48,209,186
    The US Senate has 100 members.
    Totals may exceed 100 due to mid-term replacements.

    The numbers on this page are based on contributions from PACs and individuals giving $200 or more.

    All donations took place during the -1-All election cycle and were released by the Federal Election Commission on Monday, March 09, 2015.

    SOURCE – link to opensecrets.org

  19. Krendall Mist
    August 5, 2015, 9:28 pm

    Let dog have its day–and Congress destroy the deal (at least for the US) with a veto-proof majority. Even the most obtuse citizen of the US will then understand that Zionists dictate US policy in catastrophic derogation of the welfare and security of 98 % of Americas. Perhaps, then, the instinct for self-preservation in the American body politic will hit a critical mass–and we will finally cleanse Washington of its Zionist infestation

  20. JLewisDickerson
    August 5, 2015, 10:16 pm

    RE: “Obama tells Americans it is ‘abrogation of my constitutional duty’ to defer to Israel on Iran Deal”

    JOE SIX-PACK SEZ: “Abrogation? What the hell does that mean? It does sound kind of scary!”
    Meanwhile, back at “comb-over central”, Donald Trump is offering to give everyone a complimentary rectal examination! ! !

  21. yonah fredman
    August 6, 2015, 3:58 am

    I think Obama’s speech was particularly effective, particularly in his cool. I doubt that Americans are listening. August is not a month of serious business. In September after Labor Day when the Congress takes its first vote (before the veto) on this matter, that is when the battle will sharpen. If on the first vote there is not a 2/3rds majority, then the game is won. if there is a 2/3rds majority then the battle royal will begin.

    (Obama’s cool differs so markedly from Netanyahu’s heat. McLuhan cool and heat, of course.)

    Bibi is playing for the history books. “I did my utmost to stop this agreement” he will be able to claim. He is in no danger of losing his reins of power as a result of his policy on Iran. He has already served too long and so the Likud party would be well advised to replace him. Bennett’s time, if it comes, is not soon. Likud got 30 seats and Bennett 8 seats, down from 12, explain to me how he is the next prime minister?

  22. RoHa
    August 6, 2015, 4:47 am

    It seems weird that O gives the impression that the U.S. would have to go to war if the deal does not go through. I simply cannot see the necessity.

    I’m sure that he does not want war with Iran. Aside from Afghanistan, he’s already playing both sides in Iraq/Syria, supporting the Saudis in Yemen, giving hard looks at China, and, most importantly, trying to work up a war with Russia. He probably thinks that Iran would be a bit too much.

    • michelle
      August 6, 2015, 2:40 pm

      .
      maybe this is the ‘proof’ that
      America and Israel are two different countries
      without this proof/break
      when Israel attacks Iran America will bleed
      .
      G=d Bless
      .

    • just
      August 7, 2015, 7:34 am

      I agree with you, RoHa.

      Yesterday I received an email from Major General (retired) Eaton on behalf of VoteVets who wrote that there are two choices~ “diplomacy or war”. I don’t think that war against Iran is a given. It would be another illegal war of choice with absolutely no evidence of any kind of clandestine nuclear weapons program or intentions.

      Worth reading:

      “The US secretary of state, John Kerry, has said the Vietnam war was the result of a “most profound failure of diplomatic insight and political vision” as he marked the 20th anniversary of diplomatic relations between the two countries.

      Kerry on Friday extolled the virtues of reconciling with former enemies at the end of a five-nation tour of the Middle East and south-east Asia that has been dogged by domestic US debate over the Iran nuclear deal.

      He lamented that discussions have often focused on the alleged necessity of conflict.

      “Standing here today, I’m reminded of conversations I’ve had recently with people who talk almost casually about the prospect of war with one country or another. And I’m tempted to say: ‘You don’t have the first idea of what you’re talking about’,” Kerry told an audience of civic and business leaders in a speech at a Hanoi hotel.

      “For sure, there are times when one may have no choice but to go to war, but it is never something to rush to or accept without exploring every other available option,” he said. “The war that took place here half a century ago divided each of our countries and stemmed from the most profound failure of diplomatic insight and political vision.”

      The Vietnam war veteran did not mention Iran or the nuclear deal but he made clear that the American-Vietnamese experience of the past 60 years could serve as a model for others. …

      … “Vietnam and our shared journey from conflict to friendship crosses my mind frequently as I grapple with complex challenges we face today,” he said.

      “That we are standing here today celebrating 20 years of normalised relations is proof that we are not doomed merely to repeat the mistakes we have made in the past. We have the ability to overcome great bitterness and to substitute trust for suspicion and replace enmity with respect.”

      “The United States and Vietnam have again proven that former adversaries really can become partners, even in the complex world we face today. And as much as that achievement matters to us, it is also a profound and timely lesson to the rest of the world,” Kerry said. …”

      link to theguardian.com

      He’s in the right place at the right time. He speaks the language I’ve long yearned for, and has done the difficult work of making peace a reality.

  23. mikeo
    August 6, 2015, 5:32 am

    I get the feeling the American public are waking up…

    Check the comments on the NYT story:

    link to nytimes.com

    I struggled to find any supportive of Netanyahu at all in the “Readers Picks”

  24. Kay24
    August 6, 2015, 7:10 am

    The coverage about this on Morning Joe was predictably disappointing. The panel seemed to blame Obama and how he is dissing even Democrats. It was unbelievable. I felt some in the panel had come with instructions from their masters. When that warmonger Booby thumps his chest and makes his usual insulting speeches, even HE does not get criticized so much.
    Sick of this zionist media and those that run these corporations.

  25. just
    August 6, 2015, 8:24 am

    “Iran’s Zarif: Obama’s Nuke Deal Speech Aimed at ‘calming Zionists’

    Iranians respond to U.S. president’s speech, claiming Tehran never wanted to build a nuclear bomb.

    DPA – Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif on Thursday described U.S. President Barack Obama’s speech on the recent nuclear deal with the international community as irrelevant and merely for a domestic audience, which he said included addressing “Zionist” fears.

    Iran is also not responsible for the crises in the region and the spread of terrorism; rather it is the indiscriminate Middle East policies of the United States and its allies that bear the responsibility, Zarif said in response to Obama’s speech.

    “Therefore the president’s speech was more directed at a domestic audience and the critics in his own country, and especially at calming the Zionists,” Zarif said in his statement.

    “The claim that the deal has blocked Iran’s path to a nuclear bomb is a renewed attempt to prove the absurdity of the topic,” he said, adding that Iran never wanted to build a nuclear bomb and will never want to build one.”

    read more: link to haaretz.com

    Zarif nails it again.

    Especially this, though I would add ‘hypocritical’ to ‘indiscriminate’:

    “Iran is also not responsible for the crises in the region and the spread of terrorism; rather it is the indiscriminate Middle East policies of the United States and its allies that bear the responsibility, Zarif said in response to Obama’s speech.”

    There it is~ the TRUTH.

    Even if populations here, there, and everywhere are not all A students in the Wests’ continuing ‘grand game’, everyone can smell, taste, hear, see, and feel the hypocrisy. After all, it is the populations that suffer~ always.

    • inbound39
      August 8, 2015, 9:32 am

      Ain’t that the truth. I know when I worked out what was going on in Nam and worked out the truth of what I was doing in the operations room on the ship I was on I became very confused. I felt betrayed and that the military as a whole had been betrayed. I could no longer in good conscience serve. Operations Room on an Australian Warship is what Americans call a Combat Information Center. Politicians lie and politicians send troops in then nobble the rules of engagement and people start dying for no reason and you question the intelligence of those at the top.

      What America and Israel have been doing in the Middle East is sowing the wind…..Israel more so with its meddling and border violations of neighbours. From what I see the conditions for a perfect storm is set. It is simple a question of who will trip the switch. If America has any sense it will alter course and correct some of its faults and keep its troops out of any Battle Israel may want to involve America in or start. Let Israeli troops be the boots on the ground. They are apparently the experts with all the answers.

  26. NickJOCW
    August 6, 2015, 8:48 am

    One would hope all candidates for office will study this, and even if they still disagree take salutary note where spontaneous applause broke out.

    What’s more likely to happen should Congress reject this deal is that Iran would end up with some form of sanctions relief without having to accept any of the constraints or inspections required by this deal. So in that sense, the critics are right. Walk away from this agreement, and you will get a better deal — for Iran.

    (APPLAUSE)

    But if we’ve learned anything from the last decade, it’s that wars in general and wars in the Middle East in particular are anything but simple.

    (APPLAUSE)

    But superpowers should not act impulsively in response to taunts or even provocations that can be addressed short of war. Just because Iranian hardliners chant “Death to America” does not mean that that’s what all Iranians believe. In fact, it’s those…

    (APPLAUSE)

    …In fact, it’s those hardliners who are most comfortable with the status quo. It’s those hardliners chanting “Death to America” who have been most opposed to the deal. They’re making common cause with the Republican Caucus.

    (APPLAUSE)

    , and as president of the United States it would be an abrogation of my constitutional duty to act against my best judgement simply because it causes temporary friction with a dear friend and ally.

    I do not believe that would be the right thing to do for the United States, I do not believe it would be the right thing to do for Israel.

    (APPLAUSE)

  27. German Lefty
    August 6, 2015, 9:58 am

    “And our diplomatic credibility is at stake if we cannot pass the Iran deal.”

    LOL. What diplomatic credibility?

  28. SonofDaffyDuck
    August 6, 2015, 11:15 am

    There is one undeniable benefit from all this.

    AIPAC-congress can no longer be the passionate attachment that dare not speak it’s name.

  29. michelle
    August 6, 2015, 2:56 pm

    .
    seems like if the republicans want more election dollars
    they would be less predictable in their opinions/votes
    and at the least ride the rails more often
    sit booboo sit
    good dog
    .
    G-d Bless
    .

  30. unverified__5ilf90kd
    August 6, 2015, 3:21 pm

    The NYT has an editorial today entitled “Obama Takes On Opponents of the Iran Deal”. They define the opponents as Congressional Republicans, Mr. Netanyahu and other opponents. Not once does the word AIPAC appear. What a whitewash as usual. No wonder antisemitism is on the rise.

  31. just
    August 6, 2015, 7:48 pm

    Silvan Shalom:

    “They say actions speak louder than words, and perhaps this universal truth is even more evident in the Middle East, where the sound of rocket fire and the explosion of bombs often drowns out the written word. We in Israel know all about that, having been at the receiving end of gun and missile fire for decades. In that time we have learned, the hard way, that it is only our actions that ensure our survival, not written promises. Our neighbourhood does not play by western rules, and as the only democracy in the region we know all too well what it is to fight an enemy that abuses our values.

    In our region, one regime stands out above all others in its destructive role. That same regime is attempting to camouflage its actions by employing diplomacy and by relying on the short memory of international public opinion. The ayatollahs in Tehran would have us believe that they are a peace-loving regime that seeks a tranquil, stable Middle East, and that the Vienna nuclear deal is proof of their benign intentions. But reality is telling us a different story, one that totally contradicts this narrative.

    If we are to understand the Iranian regime, we must look at what it is doing, not just saying, and ask ourselves whether its actions are compatible not just with western interests but, more important, with western values. …

    …We must be clear eyed when it comes to Tehran’s intentions. If the past teaches us anything about the current regime, it is this: the terror will continue, as will Tehran’s destructive regional role, and the military nuclear project will be close on its heels.”

    link to theguardian.com

    I read this and substituted ‘Israel’ and ‘Tel Aviv” for ‘Iran’ and ‘Tehran’, and then it sounded real. Then I got to the end, and everybody knows that it is only Israel in the region that has military nuclear weapons and a clandestine program.

    Just another Israeli liar, front- paged again.

    I go back to Zarif’s words after Obama’s speech @ AU:

    “Iran is also not responsible for the crises in the region and the spread of terrorism; rather it is the indiscriminate Middle East policies of the United States and its allies that bear the responsibility, Zarif said in response to Obama’s speech.”

    link to haaretz.com

  32. PeaceThroughJustice
    August 7, 2015, 2:28 am

    This was fast–
    Alan Dershowitz, The Case Against the Iran Deal: How Can We Now Stop Iran from Getting Nukes? (Kindle ebook edition)
    link to amazon.com

  33. German Lefty
    August 7, 2015, 5:19 am

    Shir Hever on The Real News: Is Netanyahu Fueling Anti-Semitism?
    link to youtube.com

  34. Sulphurdunn
    August 7, 2015, 12:36 pm

    I am sick and tired of the anti-Semite ad hominen leveled at anyone who challenges the hegemony of Israel over our Middle East policy. Listen carefully. Even if Obama is what you claim (and that claim is absurd) it would still bear no logical relationship to his argument.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 7, 2015, 1:01 pm

      it’s always been the #1 fall back and forwarding position of israeli advocacy, for good reason, it works. it shuts people up. society has to learn to unwind the brainwashing and speak up or things are never going to change.

      i’m really sick of it too.

  35. lysias
    August 7, 2015, 2:55 pm

    Justin Raimondo rejects the criticisms of Obama’s speech: The Liberation of US Foreign Policy: The Iran deal is the Israel lobby’s Armageddon:

    The Iran deal is a turning point in US foreign policy, and its approval by Congress will represent a sea change in American politics: it will mark nothing less than a day of liberation which future generations might dub “VI Day” – victory over Israel day.

  36. Citizen
    August 7, 2015, 4:01 pm

    Banner Headline:

    Schumer tells Americans it is ‘abrogation of my Jewish Zionist constitutional duty’ to defer to the POTUS on Iran Deal

  37. inbound39
    August 7, 2015, 6:23 pm

    Haven’t been around for a while due to illness. I am a former serviceman and up until Cast Lead I had the mindset that Israel was one of us. The Iraq War had me questioning what the hell America was doing when it missed the major necessity out of a three part plan…namely having troops following up behind the main force to hold ground already taken and why Israel was told not to send troops in…..Why not? They were most vocal.

    Then I stumbled across Talknic and found a kindred spirit that believes in justice and following the facts and reality. I visited his blog and was amazed and astounded at the wealth of information he had compiled and my headspace has never been the same. Talknic inspired me to set up the longest running and biggest thread on YahooNZ that was simply called Palestinian State. It ran from 2008 until the message boards were shut down on Yahoo here around 2012.Three of us ran the thread and we recieved death threats and took on all comers from the Israel Lobby and Hasbara Boys….lol. Thanks Talknic…you gave me the truth and opened my eyes and I still actively engage Israeli’s wherever I find them.

    I also like Kay24’s input here. This site is amazing. Obama has finally shown the Obama I always knew was hiding in there. The Lobby shut him down and tied him up for a long time. Now in his final year he cannot be silenced or harmed. It hurts me to see America having its status undermined by Netanyahu and the Right Wing terrorists in Israel. It has to be stopped and Israel’s impunity has to be erased. AIPAC is nothing more than a Foreign Agent and should be banned in America and elsewhere where it undermines the elected Government. A cleansing needs to occur and years of injustice needs to be put right and particularly America and Britain need to take responsibility for bringing that about given that in the beginning and since they gave Israel the support and weaponry that it has misused to commit a multitude of sins. Glad you people are here and I love this site for its honesty and first class articles.

    • just
      August 7, 2015, 6:38 pm

      I hope that you are feeling much better, inbound39. Welcome back, and I hope that you are around more often now!

      Thank you for sharing your wonderfully rich comment here.

      “Glad you people are here and I love this site for its honesty and first class articles.”

      Ditto!

      • inbound39
        August 7, 2015, 7:01 pm

        I will be “just”. Seems Haaretz is making it more difficult to comment now with a requirement to log in etc. Israeli press seems to be taking steps to isolate Israeli’s from seeing the large scale opposition that is facing them. I have said on many occasions that AIPAC and Netanyahu may well be able to bribe and buy politicians but that is the limit of their influence. They cannot buy the global man in the street. A large backlash against Israel is building and the bought politicians will be ducking for cover shortly.

      • straightline
        August 7, 2015, 8:51 pm

        Thanks for the comment inbound39. I am wondering how this is playing out with your average Joe in the US. I am a frequent visitor, but am not there currently, and in any case, when I’m there, I don’t hang round in bars (like the lumberjack – just to confuse Annie) much. I always thought that the Israel-firsters would finally push things too far that that Americans would, despite the efforts of the MSM, begin to ask questions about their congressmen (and women) and the country they are loyal to. Am I right in thinking this might be happening?
        I hope my comment passes the RoHa punctuation test; I worked hard at it.

      • RoHa
        August 8, 2015, 4:16 am

        Not bad. I’ve seen much worse. You include capital letters, there is no confusion of defining and non-defining relative clauses, and there are no comma-after-subject-clause errors.

        You do need a comma after “comment”, and one after the “and” to give “and, in any case, “.

        Might I also suggest “unlike the lumberjack”, and “push things so far”?

        Excellent use of the semicolon in the last sentence!

        I’ll give you 8/10 for it.

        (Do you have buttered scones for tea?)

      • straightline
        August 8, 2015, 8:27 am

        @RoHa: B**ger! It’s a fair cop. I plead guilty on all charges.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 8, 2015, 4:37 pm

      good to have you around inbound! come back and visit us more often.

    • talknic
      August 10, 2015, 4:14 am

      @ inbound39

      Wow. Thx. I’m kind of embarrassed ’cause simply consider it an obligatory moral duty

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