‘Most-read’ article at Washington Post calls Israel ‘savage, unrepairable society’

US Politics
on 105 Comments

The leftwing movement of criticism of Israel is getting more and more mainstream by the second. Everyone is walking the path; they’re just getting there a little later. The Washington Post, a hotbed of neoconservative ideas for the last 15 years, has another article harshly critical of Israel today, written by an Israeli. And guess what: that article along with yesterday’s article by the two prestige Jewish academics calling for boycott of Israel are the two “most-read” articles on the Post list this morning!

This one tops the list: novelist Assaf Gavron’s article titled, “Confessions of an Israeli Traitor.” It turns out that Max Blumenthal’s portrait of a rightwing Israel was an accurate one:

The internal discussion in Israel is more militant, threatening and intolerant than it has ever been. Talk has trended toward fundamentalism ever since the Israeli operation in Gaza in late 2008, but it has recently gone from bad to worse. There seems to be only one acceptable voice, orchestrated by the government and its spokespeople, and beamed to all corners of the country by a clan of loyal media outlets drowning out all the others. Those few dissenters who attempt to contradict it — to ask questions, to protest, to represent a different color from this artificial consensus — are ridiculed and patronized at best, threatened, vilified and physically attacked at worst. Israelis not “supporting our troops” are seen as traitors, and newspapers asking questions about the government’s policies and actions are seen as demoralizing…

Facebook pages calling for violence against left-wingers and Arabs appear frequently, and even when they’re taken down, they pop up again in one guise or another. Any sentiment not aligned with the supposed consensus is met with a barrage of racist vitriol. One Facebook group calling itself the Shadow Lions discussed how to disrupt a wedding between an Arab and a Jew, posting the groom’s phone number and urging people to call and harass him. On Twitter and Instagram, hashtags like #leftiesout and #traitorlefties abound. Film director Shira Geffen, who asked her movie audiences for a moment of silence to respect Palestinian children killed in an Israeli offensive, was flayed across Israeli social networks. “Shame,” a new and brilliant play by actress Einat Weitzman, brings to the stage a selection of the hateful comments she received after wearing a T-shirt bearing the Palestinian flag. One example from the play: “If the baby that was murdered was yours I wonder which flag you would put on yourself. Now step on it and get your ugly head back to your tiny apartment and bury yourself from the shame until you die there alone and maybe in your funeral we will ask the Jihad to read verses from the Koran.”

Gavron is in Omaha this year. He denounces Netanyahu’s Holocaust revisionism and the extrajudicial executions by Israeli law enforcement:

what I hear and read from Israel leaves me appalled. Again led by politicians from the right (with the perplexing support of members of the supposed opposition, such as Yair Lapid), then circulated by the sensationalist mainstream media, there has been a unified demonization of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. One recent poll by the newspaper Maariv found that only 19 percent of Israeli Jews think most Arabs oppose the attacks. This past week, the trend reached its absurd peak, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ridiculous claim that Hitler decided to annihilate the Jews only after being advised to do so by Jerusalem Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, the leader of Palestinian Arabs at the time. ..

There have been calls to kill attackers in every situation, in defiance of the law or any accepted rules of engagement for the military. Lapid, for example, said in an interview, “Don’t hesitate. Even at the start of an attack, shooting to kill is correct. If someone is brandishing a knife, shoot him.” Minister of Public Security Gilad Erdan also gave his blessing to that notion. And the head of the Jerusalem police department, Moshe Edri, announced, “Anyone who stabs Jews or hurts innocent people is due to be killed.” Knesset member Yinon Magal tweeted that authorities should “make an effort” to kill terrorists who carry out attacks.

Such sentiment has led to incidents like the death in East Jerusalem of Fadi Alloun, suspected of a knife attack but shot by police as they had him surrounded. Sometimes, it backfires: This month, a Jewish vigilante near Haifa stabbed a fellow Israeli Jew who he thought was an Arab. Late Wednesday, soldiers killed an Israeli Jew whom they mistook for a Palestinian attacker.

The low point (so far) was last Sunday night’s lynching of 29-year-old Eritrean asylum seeker Haftom Zarhum…

These events are symptoms of Israel’s soul sickness:

The cumulative effect of this recent mindless violence is hugely disturbing. We seem to be in a fast and alarming downward swirl into a savage, unrepairable society. There is only one way to respond to what’s happening in Israel today: We must stop the occupation.

He understands that Israel is an isolated militaristic society:

No matter how many soldiers we put in the West Bank, or how many houses of terrorists we blow up, or how many stone-throwers we arrest, we don’t have any sense of security; meanwhile, we have become diplomatically isolated, perceived around the world (sometimes correctly) as executioners, liars, racists.

Gavron calls for Israel to end the occupation now because it is destroying Israel. I imagine many liberal Zionists will agree.

But how do you just end the occupation? You don’t. The Jim Crow south didn’t end Jim Crow. You need outsiders to help you. Governments have done nothing of course. So that means civil society, and the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement.

And who knows: soon maybe the Post will run articles by Palestinians describing their experience, Palestinians calling for BDS.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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105 Responses

  1. Kathleen
    October 25, 2015, 12:31 pm

    “soul sickness” Seems to accurately describe the situation in Israel. Although they may have caught this sick condition from the U.S. Genocide tactics, slavery, systematic oppression, denial. Yes this is a very sick condition

    As far as articles reporting the truth in the Wapo etc. So it goes “better late than never”

    Sure makes you wonder if as awareness grows about the facts on the ground will there ever be an avalanche of justice?

    • pmb1414
      October 25, 2015, 8:11 pm

      “Although they may have caught this sick condition from the U.S. Genocide tactics, slavery, systematic oppression, denial.” If you can document examples of “US genocide tactics” please share them with us, because that’s going too far.
      Certainly we Americans have an unsavory history ~ slavery, the Jim Crow south, and too damn many unnecessary wars, but at least we have acknowledged our moral failures and are trying to do something about them. Our unquestioning support of the Israeli military is truly frustrating and an embarrassment for an increasing number of Americans, but we are beginning stand up and question that.

      • Kathleen
        October 25, 2015, 11:04 pm

        It’s true many more Americans are “beginning to stand up and question that” However most Americans do not want to think at all about our own horrific behavior in Iraq, Libya, Syria. Hundreds of thousands have died due to the U.S.’s actions.

      • ziusudra
        October 26, 2015, 2:59 am

        Greetings,
        ….Israelis having no sense of security….
        How can this be?
        Israel has the military might to leave the battle field of illegal occupation unilaterally w/o fear of attack.
        Israel controls contiguous Palestine, where eclectic Israelis only reside on 9,0K Km2 out of 21.
        Israel enjoys all the resources of Palestine cheaply.
        Israel has Big Brother, EU, UN & Nato in their pocket.
        Israel has more Shekels than Solomon & Croesus combined.
        The Tyrant encroaches on into the religious sphere of the Pals & they go on a rampage killing ca 7 Israelis losing ca 50…….
        & it is the Israelis that feel insecure & bewildered?
        The frightful thought that a wayward Pal. knife could injure any of the 6 mn Israeli individuals & their army couln’t protect them!
        Their own Ox Paddies have been ventilated onto the Knesset floor & King Bibi moves on to tightening of the bolt of security!
        At this rate, not even with the Pals. totally vanguished from Palestine will they feel secure in their never ending quest of greater Eretz Israel.
        ziusudra
        PS Wasn’t it Kafka that showed us the man in the hugh flat that couldn’t answer the doorbell because, he had become a Beetle unable to leave his bed as his ultimate hopelessness? I repeat, it only took a few low tech. knives to manifest Israeli’s age old inate sense of insecurity!

      • niass2
        October 26, 2015, 9:01 am

        Walk me out in the Morning Dew today.

      • RockyMissouri
        October 26, 2015, 11:40 am

        We have stomped our way around the world, never caring who we stomped upon, or had to remove, because of our own self-serving interests.

        AT LAST, Now that the PEOPLE are plugged-in and attuned to what’s happening in the world, we are FINALLY AWAKENING, albeit late!

      • Doubtom
        October 27, 2015, 12:47 am

        I suggest pmb1414 that it has gone beyond ’embarrassment’ to full anger, as more are accurately seeing Israel’s illegal activity as being done in our name, due to this often stated “special relationship” we’re suppose to have with that rogue state and which no one has ever defined for the American public. It’s past time to “question” ,,,we should be in the “shouting angrily” mode.
        Like it or not, we are seen ,by the world, as complicit in every illegal event perpetrated by the Israelis–that’s the simple truth and we must crawl out from under the control of the Jewish lobbies and the out-sized influence of the Jews in our high offices. There is no mystery about why the Arab world despises us and it’s time we addressed it honestly and did something about it.

      • michtom
        November 2, 2015, 2:46 am

        Really? You are unaware of US genocide tactics? The US was built on genocide: The Trail of Tears, Wounded Knee, the Indian wars. Etc., etc., etc., and so forth.

        Read about Celilo Falls in the Columbia River: “the oldest continuously inhabited community on the North American continent until 1957, when the falls and nearby settlements were submerged by the construction of The Dalles Dam.”
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celilo_Falls

      • Mooser
        May 31, 2016, 11:22 am

        And all of that genocide and war and slavery and Jim Crow sure stands in stark contrast to the experience of the Jews in America, doesn’t it?

    • Jabberwocky
      October 26, 2015, 1:43 am

      Kathleen, to your point about Americans ignoring the carnage that their military creates; the numbers are millions, not thousands:

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-we-ignore-the-civilians-killed-in-american-wars/2011/12/05/gIQALCO4eP_print.html

      • Kathleen
        October 27, 2015, 11:54 pm

        Yep

  2. traintosiberia
    October 25, 2015, 12:42 pm

    Pakistan in 1980 ,Saudi Arab from 1930 and India from 1992 have slowly and inexorably gravitated to intolerant ,spiritually bankrupt,religiously fanatics controlled nations .
    Israel has joined the gangs a little late just like it joined the European colonization projects a little late .

  3. Krauss
    October 25, 2015, 1:02 pm

    Phil, he doesn’t call Israel an unrepearable society, he calls it:

    We seem to be in a fast and alarming downward swirl into a savage, unrepairable society

    Seem to, going in the direction.

    He ends his piece with the typical “end the occupation” claptrap. It’s not going to end now. If you don’t call for a democratic state at this stage, you’re supporting Apartheid by extension. Enough with the Labor/J Street “liberals” for whom Israel is always “in danger” or “seem to” becomming something which it already is, and whose remedies are always curiously ignoring issues like RoR. These are not liberals. Never have been, never will be.

    On a metapolitical note, isn’t it weird that the former neocon rag is now in the center while the supposedly “liberal” NYT is now hard-right on Israel/Palestine?

    WaPo is not left. It’s merely centrist and for us to think that there has been some huge shift, while in reality WaPo just stopped being crazy racist, is very indicitative of just how far the discourse has been pushed to the racist far-right on this topic. I don’t know what happened to the Sulzberger family but they turned out to be a bunch of a bigoted racists. Maybe it was always like that, only that there was no pressure beforehand to reveal this as truth.

    • jaspeace2day
      October 26, 2015, 3:52 pm

      “… isn’t it weird that the former neocon rag is now in the center while the supposedly “liberal” NYT is now hard-right on Israel/Palestine?” just follow the money and who owns the majority of media in the US…just like following the money for all the weapons we (the US) are selling like firewood into tinderbox box countries we have hung out to dry.

    • SQ Debris
      October 26, 2015, 4:40 pm

      Gavron’s book The Hilltop is tepid critique the occupation at best, let alone political zionism. Liberal zionist Claptrap indeed. I don’t think that when he writes “end the occupation” he’s talking about the occupation of Haifa. He just wants to ameliorate “The Demographic Threat.”

  4. just
    October 25, 2015, 1:16 pm

    You quote this:

    “The cumulative effect of this recent mindless violence is hugely disturbing. We seem to be in a fast and alarming downward swirl into a savage, unrepairable society. There is only one way to respond to what’s happening in Israel today: We must stop the occupation.”

    And you left this critical bit out:

    “Not for peace with the Palestinians or for their sake (though they have surely suffered at our hands for too long). Not for some vision of an idyllic Middle East — those arguments will never end, because neither side will ever budge, or ever be proved wrong by anything. No, we must stop the occupation for ourselves. So that we can look ourselves in the eyes. So that we can legitimately ask for, and receive, support from the world. So that we can return to being human.”

    He shows regret and concern only for himself and his people. How does one “return to being human”, anyway? The choice to act savagely has been made by the majority of Israelis and Israel itself for decades now.

    I’m glad that this was published, but boy oh boy does he have a long row to hoe. And what the heck does he mean by:

    “So that we can legitimately ask for, and receive, support from the world.”?

    That’s all they’ve ever had… sickeningly blind “support”, billions of dollars, weapons, enabling, and the veto.

    Thanks, Phil.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 25, 2015, 2:40 pm

      Not for peace with the Palestinians or for their sake

      believe me, this was exactly what jumped out at me too.

    • Laurent Weppe
      October 25, 2015, 4:47 pm

      Oppressive system tend to develop their own specific form of magic thoughts: Oppression breeds hatred and a desire for revenge: the people who benefit from it realize that, and tend to react by doubling down on the abuse: “If we keep beating the downtrodden, they’ll never become strong enough to successfully overthrow us“: it’s a bully’s logic scaled up to Nations.

      Eventually, you see emerging from the privileged class people like Assaf Gavron who realize two things:
      1. The bully’s logic is unsustainable: strength is transient and diplomatically isolated rogue states are fated to collapse, usually very violently.
      2. Appealing to their peers sense of decency to convince them to change their behavior is a pointless endeavor: it will at best be ignored or ridiculed, at worst cause the people appealing to them to be banded as traitors and forcefully relegated to the abused class.

      So they try to appeal to their peers’ sense of self preservation, try to convince them that it’s by doing the right thing that they will ensure their own survival.

      • just
        October 25, 2015, 5:52 pm

        “So they try to appeal to their peers’ sense of self preservation, try to convince them that it’s by doing the right thing that they will ensure their own survival.”

        Thank you Lawrence. They’re so transparent. Sorry, but I can barely stomach it anymore. How and why do they whine so when they have clandestine nukes and the most advanced weaponry in the region and use it on defenseless and Occupied people??? I just don’t get it. Is it because what Israel has done is so heinous that they would decimate anyone who did it to them if they could? Is this ultimate example of projection? Is this why this guy only cares about his own? Why on earth do the Palestinians have to endure this violence?

        Thanks to Annie @ 2:40 pm, too. It literally jumped up and jabbed me between the eyes! Same old pain, too.

    • niass2
      October 26, 2015, 8:59 am

      whose people? Not Mine. -Sincerely, Mr. Cohen

  5. rensanceman
    October 25, 2015, 1:26 pm

    The U.S. is Israel’s main sponsor and will remain so until our compliant Congress and Executive branches of government view our relationship with this rogue state in realpolitik terms. Israel has and is injecting its freemasonry ideas for reconstituting Eretz Israel via the strategic plan outlined in the CleanBreak/Rebuilding America’s Defenses documents. When our citizens discover that the destruction of Iraq, Libya, Lebanon, and Syria were pre-ordained according to the grand plan to neutralize all surrounding states of Israel, and not because of any threats to our national security, then a possible transformation of our foreign policy relative to Israel may occur. But first, the power centers: media and our Government must cut the idealogical cord that connects Israel to our political Establishment.

  6. JLewisDickerson
    October 25, 2015, 1:30 pm

    RE: “There seems to be only one acceptable voice, orchestrated by the government and its spokespeople, and beamed to all corners of the country by a clan of loyal media outlets drowning out all the others.” ~ Assaf Gavronf

    MY COMMENT: Gleichschaltung? *

    * SEE: “Who Will Save Israel”, by Uri Avnery, zope.gush-shalom.org, 23 May 2015

    [EXCERPTS] THE BATTLE is over. The dust has settled. A new government – partly ridiculous, partly terrifying – has been installed. . .
    . . . Now the situation inside Israel proper is about to change drastically.
    Two facts attest to this.
    First of all, Ayelet Shaked has been appointed Minister of Justice. One of the most extreme right-wing Israelis, she has not made a secret of the fact that she wants to destroy the independence of the Supreme Court, the last bastion of human rights. . .
    . . . PERHAPS WORSE is Netanyahu’s decision to retain for himself the Ministry of Communication.
    This ministry has always been disdained as a low-level office, reserved for political lightweights. Netanyahu’s dogged insistence on retaining it for himself is ominous.
    The communication Ministry controls all TV stations, and indirectly newspapers and other media. Since all Israeli media are in very bad shape financially, this control may become deadly.
    Netanyahu’s patron – some say owner – Sheldon Adelson, the would-be dictator of the US Republican party, already publishes a give-away newspaper in Israel, which has only one sole aim: to support Netanyahu personally against all enemies, including his competitors in his own Likud party. The paper – “Israel Hayom” (Israel Today) – is already Israel’s widest-circulation newspaper, with the American casino king pouring into it untold millions.
    Netanyahu is determined to break all opposition in the electronic and written media. Opposition commentators are well advised to look for jobs elsewhere . . .
    . . . One cannot avoid an odious analogy. One of the key terms in the Nazi lexicon was the atrocious German word Gleichschaltung – meaning connecting all media to the same energy source [SEE: Gleichschaltung @ Wikipedia – J.L.D. ]. All newspapers and radio stations (TV did not yet exist) were staffed with Nazis. Every morning, a Propaganda Ministry official by the name of Dr. Dietrich convened the editors and told them what tomorrow’s headlines, editorials etc. were to be.
    Netanyahu has already dismissed the chief of the TV department. We don’t yet know the name of our own Dr. Dietrich. . .

    ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1432296815/

    P.S. RE:“Those few dissenters who attempt to contradict it — to ask questions, to protest, to represent a different color from this artificial consensus . . .” ~ Assaf Gavron

    MY COMMENT: “artificial consensus” = “manufactured consent”*
    * Manufacturing Consent – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

  7. DaBakr
    October 25, 2015, 2:07 pm

    if i had a nickel for every left-wing Jew from 1948 until October 2015 who has fretted, suffered with or complained about the perception that we:

    “don’t have any sense of security; meanwhile, we have become diplomatically isolated, perceived around the world (sometimes correctly) as executioners, liars, racists. ”

    i’d be watching adelsen getting smaller and smaller in my lamborghini’s rear view mirror.

    as usual-PW getting all excited about yet another in an infinite stream of leftie hand-wringers more worried about ‘perceptions’ then the more honest and harsh reality that his people face. his good intentions belong with all the other trillions of pavement blocks leading off to la la land

    • Mooser
      October 25, 2015, 6:00 pm

      ” infinite stream of leftie hand-wringers more worried about ‘perceptions’ then the more honest and harsh reality that his people face.”

      I know what you mean, “Dabakr”. But he probably doesn’t want to expose Washington Post readers to just how hopeless Israel is just yet. What a deep hole they dug themselves into and then covered over.
      Maybe he is saving that for the next installment.

      In the meantime, don’t worry about that “infinite stream of leftie hand-wringers”. I mean, “infinite”, that’s not many.

      • thankgodimatheist
        October 26, 2015, 2:33 am

        “In the meantime, don’t worry about that “infinite stream of leftie “. I mean, “infinite”, that’s not many.”
        A very good one.

    • niass2
      October 26, 2015, 8:55 am

      There is no we here. I amj ewish, and i am not part of any we. Isreal has nothing to do with me. I hate it. I am a european Jew who couldn’t care less that I am Jewish, except I do like to be contrary. I just found out my wife’s niece is joining the IDF. My wife doesn’t like to talk about it. If it was my kid she’d be thrown out of the house and her name taken out of any will and she would be dispossessed of any relationship with me. My lawyer would be very busy, if I had one. There is no we, there is a bunch of maniac psychotic nationalistic people, calling them Nazis doesn’t do their hatred justice, i will not be a member of a club that would have me as a member, especially a hateful one like isreal. Judaism I don’t know about, but I do know a lot about Isreal and its hatred.

  8. yourstruly
    October 25, 2015, 3:14 pm

    Israel and Nazi Germany

    same supremacist credo
    same intolerance of dissent
    different dehumanized others
    while the world stands by
    genocide
    live

  9. Amar
    October 25, 2015, 3:26 pm

    “Most read” by whom? By those who have a keen open-minded interest in the subject or by those who are forwarding it en-masse as part of coordinated actions by pro-zio media watch dogs like Honest Reporting and Camera in preparation for a vicious counter-attack against it?

    • lysias
      October 25, 2015, 4:07 pm

      This article is now number 2 on the “most read” list. Number 1 is the other article featured by Phil, by the two Zionists calling for BDS.

    • John O
      October 25, 2015, 4:08 pm

      Good point.

      I took the trouble to read the BTL posts both on this WaPo article and the Dahlia Scheindlin article in the Observer/Guardian (on Netanyahu’s Mufti speech) mentioned in an earlier MW thread:

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/25/netanyahu-holocaust-mufti-palestine

      Both have the same pattern – 100 or so early comments, many well thought through and informative, and then the gradual arrival of a slew of hasbaristas disrupting, deflecting and, above all, screaming “anti-Semitism” at every opportunity until the whole debate collapses.

  10. Keith
    October 25, 2015, 3:38 pm

    “…Jerusalem Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, the leader of Palestinian Arabs at the time. …”

    FORMER, BRITISH APPOINTED Mufti who had fled the country and had very little influence on the Palestinian Arabs at the time of his brief meeting with Hitler. Even as Assaf Gavron criticizes Netanyahu, he perpetuates the myth of the Mufti as an Arab leader rather than a rather marginal figure. Less significant than fascist sympathizers Yitzhak Shamir and Manachem Begin.

  11. Keith
    October 25, 2015, 3:56 pm

    PHIL- “The leftwing movement of criticism of Israel is getting more and more mainstream by the second.”

    And the charges of Left anti-Semitism by people such as author Benjamin Ginsberg grow apace. This rightward drift by Israel parallels the rightward drift of the US, and is an inevitable consequence of neoliberal globalization. As Jeff Halper notes, Israel is at the cutting edge of the techniques of societal pacification. There isn’t going to be any compromise on these issues. The global oligarchy is attempting to crush any and all resistance to corporate/financial control. Divide and conquer has become divide and destroy, the empire of chaos engaged in endless war leading to a neofeudalism of debt servitude. Things are going to get worse before they get better, if they get better.

    • niass2
      October 26, 2015, 8:57 am

      I love arabs how can I be anti semitic?

    • niass2
      October 26, 2015, 9:12 am

      We need the Republicans to understand it, not the politicians but that one moderate conservative guy in Indiana, I think his name is Bill. Sorry he’s the only moderate conservative I know of out of 120 million or so Republicans. I am a leftist, screw the left, there is no such thing. The left is people with intentions, not actions. Its like calling someone a hippy when in actuality there is no such thing and the word Hip is wolof (senegal). It means “up to date.” so hippies were up to date and everyone else is slow. The left will not solve this problem, its not a left right issue ,cue cardin. what happened to his Bill anyways? If sanders doesn’t get it how does the left help in any way, there are actually a big problem leftists who think they care but have expensive leather shoes. anyways why don’t we get the Vietnamese army in there to seperate isreal from itself. They kick ass.

  12. oldgeezer
    October 25, 2015, 4:12 pm

    I see no way to salvage Israel. Like amigo I was pro Israel due to the information that was available. As recently as 2 or 3 years ago I was pro Israel to the extent that I thought it could be saved by Israelis who had to be decent people who wanted justice and moral right.

    Not anymore. I see no hope. They were on the edge of a cliff and nt a slippery slope. That have made the choice to step off of it.

    There is little worth saving and it’s supporters are primarily racists and bigots. Not counting the bought of course who are available to anyone for a price.

    • inbound39
      October 26, 2015, 12:06 am

      Yes Old Geezer…..I was the same until I saw White Phosphorous being dropped on civilians in Gaza in Cast Lead and I washed my hands of Israel from that point. I have never failed to disgust me further since. They drop lower and lower every week it seems and I feel it is going to lead to a tragic end for Israel. People around the World are so sick of what they are doing and the only people holding Israel up is American Politicians and British Politicians and even they are beginning to dwindle in number. Israel is becoming too distasteful to attempt to defend.

    • niass2
      October 26, 2015, 8:58 am

      dont salvage it. why would we bother? Again what does it have to do with us Polish Jews anyways?

  13. Les
    October 25, 2015, 4:30 pm

    Guess what kind of people Temple Emanuel has invited to discuss BDS on election day Tuesday November 3 at 7:00 PM? What Jewish Philadelphia lawyer will argue that the efforts of BDS to get international law enforced is illegal?

    David Harris, Executive Director of American Jewish Committee, will bring a global perspective on this strategy that continues to try to undermine the Jewish state across the globe.

    Panel includes:
    Eric Fingerhut, Executive Director of Hillel International
    David Harris, American Jewish Committee Executive Director
    Lauren Rogers, Activist/California College Student

    Moderated by Rabbi Joshua M. Davidson.

    Additional panelists to be announced.

    Jewish BDS supporters owe it to themselves to show up.

    for details:
    http://emanuelskirballnyc.org/events/the-bds-movement/

    • just
      October 25, 2015, 4:40 pm

      All BDS supporters in the area that can make it should show up. Everyone owes it (and more) to the Palestinians.

      And what is this with groups putting Israel first again on US election day?

      FIrst this:

      “First-Ever U.S. Presidential Candidates’ Forum Held Abroad in Jerusalem, Israel, November 2-4, 2015

      US presidential candidates have been invited to participate in the first-ever US Presidential Candidates’ Forum held abroad, focusing on foreign and defense policy issues. From Jerusalem, Israel, each presidential candidate will have an opportunity to present their views on U.S. foreign policy, US-Israel relations, threats affecting US allies in Europe and Asia, the instability in the Middle East, terrorism, and solutions to increase the economic well-being and security of Americans in the US and abroad. …”

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/natasha-srdoc/firstever-us-presidential_b_8367160.html

      and now this at Temple Emanuel…

    • Annie Robbins
      October 25, 2015, 5:03 pm

      what a balanced panel!

    • niass2
      October 26, 2015, 9:19 am

      That’s nice. Its like a human yelling in a room. I don’t care and wouldn’t attend, and those who would are like….lame and very boring and likely all caucasian big time. . Dead and Company a la the grateful dead are in Philly on the 5th. I’d suggest jews and palestinians attend that instead. valley girls don’t date zionists anyways.

  14. Laurent Weppe
    October 25, 2015, 4:32 pm

    One recent poll by the newspaper Maariv found that only 19 percent of Israeli Jews think most Arabs oppose the attacks.

    Qui veut tuer son chien, l’accuse de la rage.

    ***

    No matter how many soldiers we put in the West Bank, or how many houses of terrorists we blow up, or how many stone-throwers we arrest, we don’t have any sense of security

    This is something that deserves to be repeated: even if the Israeli government followed its bullying policies though to their logical conclusion and ethnically cleansed Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, the Palestinian diaspora is already 8 million people strong: the Israeli population wouldn’t be nor feel safer: there would still be a Palestinian people, more susceptible to revanchist rhetoric than ever: the existential dread would still be here, it would still be exploited by right-wing hardliners whose continuous militaristic one-upmanship would eventually push Israel to bite more than it can chew.

  15. just
    October 25, 2015, 5:30 pm

    Interesting:

    “America is changing its mind on Israel: How Netanyahu is alienating his most essential ally

    The most recent flare-up in the Middle East reveals America’s shifting political fault lines

    DAVID PALUMBO-LIU

    The current violence in Israel-Palestine—immediately following the debate about the Iran arms deal, which revealed growing fissures in American support of Israel–has brought the conflict into the foreground of U.S. political discourse. The absence of any serious mention of Israel-Palestine during the first Democratic presidential debate thus speaks volumes. It tells us that even as polls show more and more of the Democratic base shifting its support away from Israel, the leading candidates for the Democratic nomination are reluctant to talk about Israel. It will be interesting to see if they shift their stances at all in the next few months, given the stakes that are emerging. Recent polls have shown that Latinos, a critical constituency, are lending their sympathy to the Palestinians. They join the young, progressives, Blacks, and Asian Americans. This is not only the perception of supporters of Palestinian rights, this point of view is shared by advocates of Israel as well.

    Everything seems in play, and that calls for our attention. Here’s what is unfolding on the American political scene:

    To begin with, let’s look at the reactions of the U.S. State Department regarding the escalation of violence in Israel-Palestine. On October 13, Secretary of State John Kerry declared “What’s happening is that, unless we get going, a two-state solution could conceivably be stolen from everybody… And there’s been a massive increase in settlements over the course of the last years, and now you have this violence because there’s a frustration that is growing.”

    Upon being accused of laying the blame for the violence on the building of settlements, the State Department rushed to back off from the October 13 statement:

    “State Department spokesman John Kirby told reporters that Kerry had not been ‘trying to affix… blame for the recent violence’ during a Tuesday evening address at Harvard University, when the secretary told his audience that ‘there’s been a massive increase in settlements over the course of the last years and there’s an increase in the violence because there’s this frustration that’s growing.’ The two ideas, Kirby suggested, were not meant to be interpreted causally.”

    Right. It’s hard to believe anyone bought that spin. What this flip-flop indicates is precisely the fluid state of our political discourse on Israel-Palestine.

    It is much more likely that Kerry knows exactly who is to blame for the violence, and his reaction to Benjamin Netanyahu’s bizarre and macabre statement that the blame for the Holocaust lay not with Adolf Hitler but with the Mufti of Jerusalem showed his growing impatience with the behavior of the Israeli government. Although he said after his October 22 meeting in Berlin with Netanyahu that he was “cautiously optimistic,” that feeble pronouncement, behooving a compassionate physician at the bedside of a terminal patient, was overshadowed by his statement in reaction to Netanyahu’s Holocaust thesis:

    We have to stop incitement, we have to stop the violence. And I think it’s critical… It is absolutely critical to end all incitement and all violence, and to find a road forward to build the possibility that is not there today for a larger process.

    And this time the State Department, instead of retreating, doubled down. John Kirby characterized Netanyahu’s comments as “inflammatory” and “factually incorrect” and contradicted by “scholarly evidence. …”

    the rest @ http://www.salon.com/2015/10/25/america_is_changing_its_mind_on_israel_how_netanyahu_is_alienating_his_most_essential_ally/

    Here’s hoping for the alienation to continue and that decent people are finally fed the heck up. I still wonder about this:

    If a Republican or a Clinton had been President during these last years, would this “alienat[ion]” have occurred?

    I think not. No way. I think that Netanyahu is a bonafide racist and an extremist. He treated this administration, and the American people by extension, as was natural for him~ like dirt.

  16. Danaa
    October 25, 2015, 6:43 pm

    Gavron is saying what I (and not a few others) have been pointing out for some time now, namely that the reality as seen from Israel is vastly different for those who read hebrew and those who don’t.

    I know exactly what he means by calling attention to the savage, barbaric posts on Israel’s Facebook and other social media. I see some of these every day. And I also see the ubiquitous calls for expelling/getting-rid-of the Arabs/Palestinians, made sometimes by a couple of commenters, who then get 10,000 likes. I see what they are sharing and what they are commending. I see references to discussions and talks and events and interpretations of events that raise the hair on the back of one’s neck.

    Even the most casual reader of Facebook in Israel (the Hebrew one, of course) picking postings up at random on the “situation”, will be aghast, if they hail from any civilized country. And that’s not all. The vitriol heaped upon Obama is beyond the pale – postings that in the US may result in an arrest for hate speech and incitement to violence, get hearted in Israel. And these heart-awarders, are not just some young misguided men who have nothing better to do. They are ALL the nice people – the grandmothers, who other than posting pictures of cute grandkids and recipes, call outright for the worst punishments meted unto the “Arabs”. Once, I thought of making a collage of “disgusting things said by gentle grandmothers”, but luckily, no time or inclination for “collages.

    The truth is as Gavron said it and as did Peled, Abarbanel, Halper, Levy, Hass and a few, too few, other Israelis and ex-Israelis – Israeli society has descended deep into the heart of darkness. And no, the nice’ Jews of the US, in their ever-cultured pretences to being part of a “great” religion, cannot follow them there, and will not, because instinctively they know what lurks in the dark. So, the “nice jews” of the “Tikun Olam” crowd, prefer their own little squabbles, on who is and who isn’t admissible to their little club, and their soirees with panels where they can publicly decry the ghastly going-on-occupation with wails of the traditional Oy-vey, while the palestinians – and increasingly, Israeli Arabs – bear the brunt of the horrid hatefulness and abject violence heaped upon them by the lynch peddling residents of the “Holy land” who believe themselves to be somehow more “jewish” by being more “resourceful” in the soft-lynch , and crying-and-beating department.

    Don’t believe me? just post something about MK Zoabi – In hebrew – on your own facebook and ask a couple of willing Israelis to share, as an experiment. I am pretty sure you’ll be locking your house with nuts and bolts, if not moving altogether, shortly thereafter.

    PS yes, there are English readers in Israel – but they tend to be the worst, since they came from the worst the US had to offer. Israeli Americans form some of the most zealot infested settlements in the WEst Bank. That’s why you are better off sticking to hebrew – might even get one of those nice grandmothers to invite you for some nice coffee-with-borsht, so she could show you the error of your ways and regail you with the Holocaust stories of others (that she read somewhere and adopted as her very own. Yes, israelis do do that and then some).

    • MRW
      October 25, 2015, 7:37 pm

      Thanks, Danaa. Loved your “nice jews” of the “Tikun Olam” crowd description.

      And yeah, you have been pointing this out for a while. Only this time you’re being more straight-forward, and direct.

    • just
      October 25, 2015, 8:17 pm

      You give me truth.

      For that (and more) thank you, Danaa.

    • Jabberwocky
      October 26, 2015, 1:50 am

      Great post. Would love to see your collage (with translation!!).

    • Ellen
      October 26, 2015, 2:37 am

      Thank you Dana. Would love to see your writing a major outlet like the Post, and always great to see it here .

    • Danaa
      October 26, 2015, 3:03 am

      Thanks guys for the encouragement. Sometimes it’s needed.

      And Ellen – about me and writing – problem is and always was – the ultimate goblin-maker – it’s name is Time. I don’t have enough of it, and so the goblins keep multiplying and running around, biting a little here and a little there, and sometimes all i can do is watch – in exasperation.

      Addendum – in case anyone is left wondering (other than the wandering Jew, Yonah, who never wonders out of his box) – yes, I happen to think that ultimately, it is the great jews of America, the lovers of a constitution they did not get to write but wish they did – it is them who history will hold as the guilty party for whatever it is that’s about to befall the Palestinians that hasn’t yet.

      I believe in collective guilt, if not punishment. The Germans did it. The Roman Church did – somewhat, if sheepishly. To some extent – albeit a limited one – the americans of today feel true remorse about what was done to the native indians. And the American Jewry – collectively – good and not so – are guilty as sin for not stopping the evil that has and is happening in Israel – in their name and with their – collective – support.

      I don’t blame the NYT and WaPo for skimping on information. – they have to to survive. I don’t blame sanders for turning into deaf and mute when it comes to IP – if he showed more care, well – we know his little “free” ride would be all but over. I do somewhat blame the language barrier for preventing Americans – jews included – from knowing what’s in the heart of hearts of israelis. But truth is, I don’t need to find excuses for any of it. Each and every jewish person in America is part and parcel of the occupation and the terrors it begets. They all know. They surely do – even when they avert their eyes, they know. Some do something to lift to burden and some do a lot. Some of course refuse to admit there’s a burden in the first place. But it doesn’t matter because in the end, none has done enough and none will. Even those who want to and try. Even you and me, whoever you are – wedid not do enough.

      So what can the rest of us – jewish and not – do that they haven’t done enough of? perhaps demand that the Jews of the wrold -especially Americans, at least admit the crime and feel the guilt. Because it is theirs to carry, till the end of times. Because it’s there – the guilt, for each of us to partake from. Watch congress blame the palestinians and cut their support – we elected them. Watch Kerry weave and turn away from the ill- wind. We elected this White house. Watch MSNBC’s Snow twist left and right – we watched them and maybe wrote a little letter, but it wasn’t enough. Watch the ones who were banned, tarred and feathered through the years. The ones we couldn’t sve fro disrepute and firing and reputation smearing. Watch what happened to the NYT and PBS and NPR and every other public channel. We supported and watched these channels and may be called in, But we did not have the wherewithall to stop their descent into the abyss. Then after watching – carefully – tell me where the guilt lies. That before we even get to measure just how much has accumulated – while we watched.

      • Hastobe
        October 26, 2015, 2:33 pm

        Excellent article Danaa!

      • MHughes976
        October 26, 2015, 3:05 pm

        Collective responsibility in many ways, yes – though people are released from guilt if they are doing all they can within the collective to change things. But no responsibility or guilt exists by heredity. You’re not responsible for anything because of your parentage or ancestry.

      • Frankie P
        October 28, 2015, 1:19 am

        @Danaa – you are the wave of truth for the future. You are the important voice, an ex-Israeli Jew willing to speak the truth, not only about the apalling actions and mindset of Israeli Jews, but also about the guilt of American Jews in their kvetching and avoidance of facing thier own actions supporting and enabling the racist state.

        Phil Weiss and editors of Mondoweiss,

        Please invite Danaa to repackage and expand upon the above comment and then post it as an article. You will have another 500+ comment article, a meaty one that people on Mondoweiss want to comment and discuss. I know, it doesn’t really follow with your agenda of presenting Jews as endless Social Justice Warriors, but it is truthful. Do you care about the truth, or is it all about perception?

        Frankie P

      • Annie Robbins
        October 28, 2015, 3:23 am

        Do you care about the truth, or is it all about perception?

        oh my. as if i don’t already have enough on my plate.

      • Danaa
        October 28, 2015, 3:48 am

        MHuges – you do have a point the way you state it. It’s just not the way I meant my point to be taken. I am asking for the assignation of collective guilt in the Now and in the Then and in the Soon for actions that were actually taken and inactions that were actually exercised allowing the reprehensible actions to be taken and to then be covered up and papered over. It is not the jews of 400 years from now that concern me, but the jews of the past 100 years and the next 50. Within our lifetimes or overlapping with them.

        Once, long time ago, before I lost faith in Elie Weisel the man, there was Elie Weisel the author, who wrote a book – “The man in the window” I believe it was called. I had many arguments with people as to whether the “man in the window” in that Hungarian town, looking down on the street as jews were rounded up and brutalized, had any responsibility for what happened and/or whether he should have had any guilt for what transpired. Some said to me – what could he do? rush into the street and get killed? but I was of the opinion that there was always more one could do than just watch through the window, or wave a gun. There are things one can do in he face of intolerable calamities that fall well short of suicidal. There is passive resistance. There is witnessing and photographing. There are letters that can be written. and for some there are just things they could choose to not do and not support.

        In an americaln context, this translates to who one cares to vote or not vote for. painful conversations one CAN engage in as opposed to avoid. Donations that can be made and not made. Trips to israel that can be taken or not. Many small actions that when undertaken by many will indeed have an effect.

        It is in the absence of the many such small actions that the guilt lies, I believe. I know for some it’s just laziness or busyness. But for many it is indifference to the fate of others not like them. and for still many more, it is actually an approval of the direction israel is heading.

        What and who will feel guilty 200 years from now is another story. who should be feeling guilty now and for what is the real story, isn’t it?

      • Sibiriak
        October 28, 2015, 4:36 am

        Danaa: believe in collective guilt, if not punishment.
        —————

        I’m sorry to hear that. But not surprised. The concept of collective guilt– antithetical to enlightenment thought, secular individualism, rational ethics, but quite in line with the thinking of Dershowitz and other ethno-nationalists–naturally leads to collective punishment, and in many circumstances, war crimes and crimes against humanity.

    • amigo
      October 26, 2015, 5:08 am

      Thanks Danaa. Excellent as usual.

    • DavidDaoud
      October 26, 2015, 1:13 pm

      Danaa,
      I have to say that yours is the most moving comment I’ve come across here, possibly most accurate and in touch with present reality. Thank you.

  17. barrynisman
    October 25, 2015, 11:55 pm

    Israel has its flaws, but considering the massacres of Arab citizens by their own (insane and/or murderous) leaders, we’re talking about flaws in a democratic state……….but do we wish to have another Libya, another Syria…….Saudi Arabias royal family are murderers, bankrolling terrorists to kill other Muslims….Iran ?….loved by other nations?…..Mubarek who was thought to be more civil, inheriting a great nation in the aftermath of Sadat’s leadership, and we learn that he was persecuting his people….it’s one after another, and and this Wash Post article wishes to have me view Israel as the most savage, unrepairable…….” ? Sorry, I respectfully have a different view of the murderous chaos that is going on that has nothing to do with Israel…..Christians are being slaughtered, and Israel is the most unrepairable ?”…….I’m very comfortable with aligning myself with Peace Now factions and groups…J Street, but the hyperbolic characterization of Israel, as it sits surrounded by the barbaric killings of innocent citizens of Arab countries, is always hard to digest.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 26, 2015, 1:07 pm

      I’m very comfortable with aligning myself with Peace Now factions and groups…J Street, but the hyperbolic characterization of Israel

      why are you bringing up peace now and j street? it doesn’t even matter when your views are no different than likud.

      surrounded by the barbaric killings of innocent citizens of Arab countries

      how is pumping 8-10 bullets in a 17 yr old schoolgirl ( http://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/executed-arshid-hebron ) less barbaric than anything else going on in the region today?

    • eljay
      October 26, 2015, 1:16 pm

      || barrynisman: Israel has its flaws, but considering the massacres of Arab citizens by their own (insane and/or murderous) leaders, we’re talking about flaws in a democratic state … ||

      The rapist has flaws, but considering how horrible serial killers are, we’re talking about flaws in a well-employed member of the community.

      (So we shouldn’t care that he kidnaps women, chains them in his basement and rapes them. And to hell with justice, accountability and equality.)

      || … it’s one after another, and and this Wash Post article wishes to have me view Israel as the most savage, unrepairable…….” ? Sorry, I respectfully have a different view … ||

      I agree that Israel is not the “most savage, unrepairable”. Sure, it’s nowhere near as good as the best but, as Zio-supremacists are always happy to point out, it’s not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.

    • John Smithson
      October 26, 2015, 1:20 pm

      But the difference barryisman is that I’m paying for Israel – my tax dollars go to support ISRAEL.

    • diasp0ra
      October 26, 2015, 1:26 pm

      I’m sorry, so is your argument basically that because this piece of fish is only mostly rotten we should eat it because there is completely rotten fish out there?

      Of course you’re comfortable aligning yourself with the likes of J-Street, it costs you nothing to do that and they don’t challenge Zionist positions of privilege and superiority in the conflict.

      It’s not as if Israel hasn’t killed thousands upon thousands of Palestinians in the last few years..what number is acceptable for you to be barbaric? Tens of thousands? Are we not being murdered fast enough for your conscience to wake up? We’re truly sorry.

      BTW, saying that Israel is a democracy means nothing. Apartheid South Africa was a Democracy. Jim Crow USA was a Democracy. What kind of democracy, and how democracy is applied, however, is something you don’t seem to question.

      Netanyahu is literally thinking of stripping hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living in the Jerusalem area of their residency rights, what kind of democracy does that? What kind of democracy has dozens of discriminatory laws against people it calls “citizens”?

      When you have an argument other than “but there are worse things out there” come back here and have an actual discussion, until then this “argument” has been debunked a million times and would not hold up in any court of law or in the mind of any reasonable person.

      • MHughes976
        October 26, 2015, 2:59 pm

        I suppose it would be logical to eat some of a half-rotten fish if the only alternatives were completely rotten. It would not be logical, though, to proclaim that fish fresh and encourage others to eat from it. Extremely irresponsible, in fact.
        The ME is full of contests between groups based on current or ancestral religion and no one has set up a constitutional government with all persons subject to the local sovereign power fully and effectively enfranchised. This leads to flare-ups of various kinds, like the tragic Arab Spring.
        The main characteristics of the Palestine situation are a more or less total monopoly of power by the Jewish half of the population, much longer continuation of the flaring or ‘burning coal’ (Paddy Ashdown’s term) in the same form, constant intense humiliation (which is, if long continued, as much of a distress to the human spirit as are short-term threats to life) of non-Jewish people, Since this system is maintained by the Western powers with one accord it will always arouse major anti-Western sentiment in the ME and will constantly destabilise the ME countries themselves as they kick against the structure of the Western-dominated world. It is maintained with a loud volume of applause in Western circles, the equivalent, to maintain both metaphors, of proclaiming absolutely fresh the fish which is significantly rotten and pretending that a room with a burning coal in its midst will definitely not catch fire.
        It is this illogical and irresponsible praise which the small, though clearly growing, minority in the West that sympathises with the Palestinians should, because it is so dominant and so dangerous, challenge in the true spirit of anti-racism, taking comfort in the support of many Jewish people. There is no remotely equivalent task of challenging loud and sustained public praise in the West for Islamic State.

    • John O
      October 26, 2015, 1:30 pm

      Yes, Israel is probably not as awful, on balance, as Iraq and Iran. But it has long way to go before it joins the ranks of Ireland and Italy as a beacon of democracy.

  18. Zaghlul
    October 26, 2015, 2:15 am

    Thanks for another fine piece, Phil. I know you get criticized for your incessant optimism, but believe me, it’s a welcome feature. The hasbara brigade are intent on erasing all hope, and sometimes our pessimism dovetails right into this strategy. But I do believe that the tide is turning.

  19. MHughes976
    October 26, 2015, 6:44 am

    I recall from not long after the 73 war reading Walter Laqueur (I think he wrote an account shortly afterwards) remarking that the occupied territories weakened Israel, and I think that liberal Zionosts, striking the pose of candid friends of Israel or critical Israeli patriots, calling for the occupation to end are nothing all that new. I am sure Mr.Gavron is a very nice and perceptive guy but there’s something disturbing about the way he centres the problem on the way the nice people, those like himself, are now being treated by the Nasties. But I’m sure he has the comfort of being in the huge majority in liberal America.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      October 26, 2015, 10:14 am

      Even Ben Gurion (or David Grun, to give his real name) thought Israel should immediately evactuate the ‘territories’, keeping only Jerusalem. Of course he was not motivated by any concern for Palestinians, but felt that turning into an occupying power would destroy the ‘soul of Israel’ or some such nonsense.

      Nearly 50 years on, the ‘occupation’ is a bit of a red herring. It’s as clear as day that this is no longer a belligerant occupation, and never really has been. Israel intends to keep pretty much all the ‘territories’. Its only problem is the one that has always plauged Zionism – it wants the land, but not the people. Sadly for Zionism, those pesky Palestinians just won’t go away.

      • Sibiriak
        October 26, 2015, 10:49 am

        Maximus Decimus Meridius : Nearly 50 years on, the ‘occupation’ is a bit of a red herring

        ————-

        Not entirely. The fact that Palestinian territories are designated as occupied under international law means that any Israeli annexation of that territory is illegal; settlements in that territory are illegal; the Apartheid Wall is illegal; and so on. While its true that international law has not yet been enforced, that may change in the future, and in any case, the ability to show that Israel is in violation of international law is critical to its deligitimization.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        October 26, 2015, 1:47 pm

        I agree. My point is that the half-hearted calls from ‘Liberal Zionists’ – like the author of the Washington Post piece – to ‘end the occupation’ are basically meaningless. It’s the LibZio cop-out – that Israel was once, and could be again, a decent, democratic sort of place, if only they would ‘end the occupation’. In reality, Zionism is the problem, not ‘the occupation’.

        And in any case, it’s probably logistically impossible to ‘end the occupation’ now. It might have been possible 20, 30, 40 years ago, but, thank largely to the blind eye turned by the world, and in particularly by the LibZios, the occupation cannot now be reversed. Do these people honestly think that half a million Israelis – many of them armed and fanatic – would just up sticks and move to ”Israel” if the call came down from on high? Would Israel seriously give up the water and other resources they have exploited for decades in the OPT? Just like that? Of course not.

        The ‘end the occupation’ cry is just another LibZio denial tactic. It’s a bit like claiming that Netanyahu is the problem, and if he’d only go away, everythink in Israel would be all so nice and liberal again. In fact, the problem is not Netanyahu, or the ‘occupation’. They are merely symptoms. The problem is Zionism. And that is precisely what they refuse to face up to.

      • Mooser
        October 26, 2015, 3:01 pm

        “Do these people honestly think that half a million Israelis – many of them armed and fanatic – would just up sticks and move to ”Israel” if the call came down from on high?”

        A call from the very Government of Israel, in conjunction with the proclamations from the Chief Rabbis? Of course they would, how could they not?

        Do they want to show the world Israel is not even in control of the Occupation?

      • Naftush
        October 26, 2015, 3:34 pm

        It wasn’t only Ben-Gurion; the Government of Israel under his successor, Levi Eshkol, put this proposal on the table as such and was requited with the three no’s of Khartoum.

      • Rashers2
        October 26, 2015, 9:23 pm

        Don’t you start, MDM… You’ll upset some of our readers if you, too, deny the Titans of Zion their Zionist conceits and refer to them by their real and very European names.

      • talknic
        October 27, 2015, 3:51 am

        Naftush “It wasn’t only Ben-Gurion; the Government of Israel under his successor, Levi Eshkol, put this proposal on the table as such and was requited with the three no’s of Khartoum”

        The three no’s of Khartoum were based on valid legal argument in reply to the nonsense demands of Israel

        No peace with Israel. No recognition of Israel. No negotiations with Israel.

        Most importantly, what were the conditions that prompted the Arab states to adopt this stance?

        2. The conference has agreed on the need to consolidate all efforts to eliminate the effects of the aggression on the basis that the occupied lands are Arab lands and that the burden of regaining these lands falls on all the Arab States.

        3. The Arab Heads of State have agreed to unite their political efforts at the international and diplomatic level to eliminate the effects of the aggression and to ensure the withdrawal of the aggressive Israeli forces from the Arab lands which have been occupied since the aggression of June 5. This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.

        This is simply a reflection of UNSC res 476

        1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;

        No peace with Israel: While territory sovereign to Egypt was under Israeli occupation the two states were technically at war. In the eventual Egypt Israel Peace Treaty Israel was first required and agreed to withdraw from all Egyptian territory before peaceful relations were assumed.

        On withdrawal, Israel got peace with Egypt.

        No recognition of Israel: There is no legal basis for demanding recognition.

        A) States can’t demand recognition. States plead for recognition

        B) ” ..in the view of the United States, International Law does not require a state to recognize another state; it is a matter for the judgment of each state whether an entity merits recognition as a state. In reaching this judgment, the United States has traditionally looked of the establishment of certain facts. The United States has also taken into account whether the entity in question has attracted the recognition of the International community of states.”

        There are numerous UN Member states who do not recognize other UN Member States.

        All states are never the less required to show respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”.

        This is reflected in UNSC res 242. Israel has failed dismally, having invaded and at some time occupied territories belonging to ALL its neighbours

        No negotiations: Israel is in breach of numerous UNSC resolutions, International Law, the UN Charter, relative conventions. There is no legal requirement for negotiations.

        For example the words ‘negotiate’, ‘negotiations’ do not appear in UNSC res242 on which the Egypt Israel Peace Treaty is based. Israel was and still is required to adhere to the law, negotiations or not.

        Egypt and Jordan were correct in refusing negotiations while Israel was in breach of its legal obligations in respect to their sovereign territory.

        The signing of a negotiated peace treaty between Egypt and Israel was by default an act of recognition and; after Israeli withdrawal peaceful relations were assumed. Likewise with Jordan.

        Both are examples of what UNSC res 242 was formulated to achieve. The end of hostilities between UN Member States.

        However, while Israel occupies non-Israeli territories in Palestine, the Golan Heights, Shebaa Farms, the Alghajar village UNSC res 425 and UNSC res 426, Israel is technically at war and those states have a right to “restore” sovereignty over their territories. Professor Stephen M. Schwebel / Elihu Lauterpacht

        The Palestinians meanwhile are under no legal obligation to sign a peace agreement with an Occupying Power, to recognize an Occupying Power or to negotiate with an Occupying Power.

        Negotiations mean only one thing, the Palestinians forgoing some of their legal rights so that Israel can keep non-Israeli territory illegally acquired by war, illegally annexed and illegally settled by Israel since 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) when Israel proclaimed its borders to the world http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

      • Sibiriak
        October 27, 2015, 4:56 am

        Don’t forget Israel’s Three No’s:

        No Palestinian people
        No Palestinian self-determination
        No Palestinian state

        It wasn’t until 1992 (!) that Israel recognized the existence of the Palestinian people. Yitzhak Rabin was the first PM to accept the idea that the Palestinians were a people, but he steadfastly refused to accept that this people had a right to national self-determination and statehood. And the same is true today.

      • MHughes976
        October 27, 2015, 5:08 am

        The idea which some politicians have with or without sincerity adopted, that there ought to be negotiations and concessions over the territories, is not the same as the idea advocated over the decades by the more strongly liberal Zionists, that it is unconditionally in Israel’s interests to withdraw from those places, since Israel is weakened or damaged by their possession. No Israeli government has ever given the latter idea even the slightest perceptible credence.
        This is what enables the liberals to strike the (slightly annoying) Candid Friend pose – why can’t they see that they’re injuring themselves when the fact is so obvious to people of goodwill? When a distinguished writer like Mr. Gavron expresses this idea with all the force that good writers can command it looks for a moment as if a big change is occurring. Perhaps it is, but when you consider that another distinguished writer, Walter Laqueur, was making a point which was essentially the same about 40 years ago, you wonder. All right, I admit that I haven’t checked that it really was WL who said this – it was certainly in a book by a respected author in a university library and stuck pointedly in my memory.

      • MHughes976
        October 27, 2015, 5:36 am

        The question of whether the Arab governments should have negotiated after 67 is open to debate, though I think that Israeli policy was already what it was to be in the later negotiations with Sadat and even later at Oslo – the Palestinian areas were to have ‘self-rule’ but not independence. However, whatever the truth of that, Palestinian human rights are determined by the fact that they are human beings, not because of what governments in possession of other territories say about them.
        As Maximus says, they’re still there. Israel’s strong preference must always have been to remove them and Israel has overwhelming coercive power. The only reason why they are still there is that Israel does not have the resources – really the money – to effect the removal. Every means of removal, from consensual ones involving payouts and compensations to horrendous ones with great loss of life, would cost enormous – never yet available – sums. Receiving countries too would have to be paid off. However, the Great Syrian Migration may turn out to be a significant precedent.
        I’m repeating what I’ve said before, I know. Just to add that one of the long-term aims must be not to look like Nazis (or Muftis) – this creates a big preference for ‘paying them to leave’.

      • Sibiriak
        October 27, 2015, 5:38 am

        @MHughes976 — In a 2003 preface to his 1972 book “A History of Zionism,” Walter Laqueur rehearsed many of the classic themes of liberal Zionism:

        Excerpt:
        ——————

        Over the past thirty years a belief has gained ground among the right wing that the entire historical Palestine is “ours by divine right.” This has resulted, among other things, in the mushrooming of settlements in areas of the West Bank and Gaza that have been occupied by Israel since the Six-Day War in 1967. Most of them do not make sense either economically or militarily, and defending and guarding them ties down a considerable part of Israel’s army.

        They are also a major obstacle on the road to some form of peaceful coexistence with the Palestinians. The pseudo-religious mysticism that rationalizes their existence would have been wholly alien to earlier generations of Zionist thinkers who, while giving all due deference to traditional religious practices, were profoundly secular in outlook and would have regarded with abhorrence the intrusion of religion into politics. If the lack of governmental planning in advance of the “ingathering of the exiles” in the 1950s was a serious mistake, the failure of the State of Israel in those years to adopt a written constitution that provided for a division
        between religion and state was another.

        This new manifestation of right-wing nationalism is not, as Herzl’s Zionism had been, a product of the Enlightenment; it is not connected with the struggle for political liberty and a free society. It fears alien influences, is antagonistic to strangers, and does not count individual freedom among its primary concerns. As one of the ideologues of this new creed put it, “This Zionism does not seek to solve the problem of the Jews by setting up a Jewish state, but it is an instrument in the hands of the Almighty which prepared the people of Israel for their Redemption.”

        Pre-state Zionism had not been based on religious zealotry and chauvinism. And even the religious Zionism of that era had stressed the international, universal message of Torah and redemption, rather than national egotism. To the Revisionist Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky, a nationalist in the liberal nineteenth-century mold, the anti-Western, isolationist character of today’s right-wing Zionism would have been incomprehensible and repugnant.

        […]It was the misfortune of Zionism that its ancient homeland should be located in the middle of a particularly troubled part of the world, one that has shown in modern times a particular ineptitude in establishing democratic societies and in making social and economic progress.

        The travails, the frustrations, the resentments of the people of the Muslim and Arab world are well known and need not be discussed in detail here. The very existence of a Jewish state within this world is seen by these people as a provocation, and it is not surprising that Israel has borne the brunt of much of their rage and frustration.

        It is more than doubtful that a conflict between Israelis and Palestinians could have been prevented, given the fact that two peoples were claiming the same land. But far from trying to defuse the conflict and prevent its spread, Israeli policy has often added fuel to it, thus increasing the dangers confronting the state.

        Prior to 1967 there was nothing for Israel to discuss with its Arab neighbors because they rejected the very existence of Israel. But after the Six-Day War Israel was in a position to make concessions; it waited for Arab initiatives that never came. But why should it have surrendered the occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza if the Arabs were still unwilling to make peace? For the simple reason that Israel could not indefinitely impose its rule over so many people who did not want to live in a Jewish state and at the same time maintain the democratic character of the country.

        Establishing Jewish settlements in the middle of a hostile Arab population was not an answer; on the contrary, it aggravated the problem. Sooner or later the settlements would have to be given up, and the longer this was delayed, the more painful it was going to be.

        The second sin of omission concerned the Arab citizens of Israel. There is no certainty that they would have become Israeli patriots if they had been given full equality, or even if preferential treatment had been given to them. But only a halfhearted attempt was made to integrate them into Israeli society, and there were too many promises that were not fulfilled.

      • MHughes976
        October 27, 2015, 1:36 pm

        Thanks for information about the more recent Laqueur, Sibiriak. I suspect I was reading his 1974 book ‘Confrontation’.

  20. Ossinev
    October 26, 2015, 6:58 am

    BOYCOTT APARTHEID ISRAEL
    BOYCOTT APARTHEID ISRAEL
    BOYCOTT APARTHEID ISRAEL
    BOYCOTT APARTHEID ISRAEL

    Say it loud and say it clear , write in clear bold type. At every opportunity and in every forum including social media repeat the mantra / display the mantra.

    You will be using the tried and tested Hasbara technique of repetitive use of phrases such as Anti – Semitism , existential threat , threatened with second Holocaust , constant barrage of rockets , political terrorism , diplomatic terrorism , economic terrorism , cultural terrorism sporting terrorism and on and on ad nauseam. Only this will be the truth and not Hasbara.
    It may just tip the balance in the US where the unspoken is just beginning to become the spoken. It will certainly impact in Europe.

  21. Kay24
    October 26, 2015, 7:31 am

    There is no doubt some Israelis and supporters are fed up of the situation, and maybe realizing that Israel is mostly to be blamed for the situation. The Palestinians have been asking for their freedom, to be released from their shackles, to be able to live their lives like the occupiers do – free and able to progress as a people. At this point, considering the unwavering support of the US, it will take a seismic shift in American attitude to make that happen. As long as we aid, arm and protect the monster, it will keep killing, stealing, and terrorizing it’s victims.

    • inbound39
      October 26, 2015, 2:05 pm

      It would seem America does this time and again and still has not learnt from Noriega,Saddam Hussein or Osama Bin Laden. They seem to enjoy backing despots then stand in shock and quickly abandon them when the truth creeps out. Israel though and Americas undying support of it is the sickest journey America has taken yet and the damage to Americas status will be felt for decades.

      • Kay24
        October 26, 2015, 4:40 pm

        This will be an endless sick journey, that will never end in our lifetime. There is some devious reason why the US has such a sick relationship with Israel, which I suspect is connected to the American wars, interference and destabilization of other nations, and toppling of governments who not do not toe our line. In return the nation that is disliked by others, gets the nod and a wink, to take over Palestinian lands, and the slow genocide of Palestinians.

  22. Kay24
    October 26, 2015, 7:51 am

    This is interesting. An article in Haaretz describing the anger against Israel presently.

    Thank you Kris for telling me about Cached:

    “Yet the indifference at Oxford towards the recent outbreak of violence should not be mistaken with acceptance of Israel’s policies vis-a-vis the Palestinians. The feeling towards Israel becomes apparent in hallway conversations with other students. There is a facial expression one encounters time and again when you say you’re from Israel. It is not one of repulsion — but of disapproval, of anger and of condemnation.
    It would be fair to claim that, if the past is any indicator, Oxford and the other top-tier UK universities are key incubators of the future leadership of the UK. But Oxford is much more that. It is a global melting pot: The dining halls are filled each night with students from Switzerland, the Netherlands, Korea, Japan, Nigeria, Egypt and India. Conversations flow from English to French and to Swazi
    The manner in which Israel is perceived by all these future leaders is therefore of great importance — and it is perceived poorly.

    read more: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.682350

    If attitudes are changing it is not because of anti-Semitism, it is because what Israel keeps doing, the unbelievable lies and anger shown by Israel’s PM, the killing of innocent children, and so many war crimes, has DISGUSTED those who are able to filter out the hasbara, and figure out the truth. Israel is doing it to itself. You cannot expect anything different.

  23. Vera Gottlieb
    October 26, 2015, 10:44 am

    About a year ago, israel’s President Rivlin openly stated that israel was a sick society in need of treatment. As true as this statement is, it seems to me that this society does not want treatment, much preferring to continue on this righteous path which, in the end, will lead to self-destruction. Golda Meier is to have once said…’after the Holocaust, Jews can do anything we want’. Not even in your dreams, Golda…if you were still alive. There is such a thing as ‘dignity’ sadly lacking.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 26, 2015, 4:25 pm

        what a bunch of nitpicking hogwash. here’s levy in in 2006

        Israel must not try to win petty profits from the memory of the Holocaust, and it should not use it over and over for emotional blackmail, as it has done for years. Israel has the right and duty to lead the world’s campaign against racism and anti-Semitism, but it must take care to avoid any manipulation in the spirit of Golda Meir’s terrible comments to Shulamit Aloni, “After the Holocaust, Jews are allowed to do anything.”
        read more: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/denial-is-not-a-reason-for-arrest-1.181199

        and here’s your article:

        Though Gidon Levy previously told CAMERA in an email that he had no source for the quote in question, we’ve been able to determine there is a source for at least a variation of the alleged quote – the late Shulamit Aloni. However, even Aloni isn’t clear on the details or the exact origin of the alleged Meir quote, and so even this “source” only represents hearsay.

        Additionally, in tracing Aloni’s retelling of the alleged quote, it’s clear that it has changed considerably over the years.

        Aloni, 2002

        Talking at a Gush Shalom (A left-wing NGO) conference in Tel Aviv in January 2002, Aloni stated:

        Golda said that ‘after the Eichmann Trial we have the right to do everything’. During the Lebanon War Begin said that ‘no one has the right to tell us what to do, definitely not those who bombed Dresden’. (Translated from the original Hebrew)

        Aloni, 2009

        In 2009, Aloni published an op-ed in [Hebrew] Haaretz which opened with the alleged quote by Meir.

        [Meir said] after the Eichmann trial, now, when everyone knows what they did to us, we can do anything we want, and no one has the right to criticize us and tell us what to do. (Translated from the original Hebrew)

        first of all, note how they didn’t quote levy’s response wrt “no source for the quote in question”? why not? maybe it means he didn’t send them a source but it was easy enough for camera to find quotes of Shulamit Aloni’s allegations. and the words “‘after the Eichmann Trial” implies after evidence was revealed about the holocaust. the exact words (after holocaust vs after eichmann trial) are unimportant.

      • amigo
        October 26, 2015, 5:33 pm

        Naftush , are you aware that the folks at CAMERA have the ability to pre photoshop the images on their CAMERA .Here is how it works.They feed the CAMERA with data before taking an image and then bingo –out comes the desired result.The same image taken with any other CAMERA would be completely different in that it would capture reality .

        You have been quoting CAMERA all over the net for years and you still believe what they feed you .

        Wise up.Even Joan (plagiarist) Peters is more believable (just) than the nutjobs at C,A,M,E,R,A.

      • Rashers2
        October 26, 2015, 8:58 pm

        “[W]hat a bunch of nitpicking hogwash. here’s [L]evy [ ] in 2006” – sitting on the fence again, I see…. Of course it’s “nitpicking hogwash”! I don’t know who funds UK Media Watch (?Hasbara Central?). “Promoting fair and accurate coverage of Israel” = jumping on every faint criticism of Israel and pronouncing it suspect and/or motivated by the ubiquitous Jew-hatred that the Hasbarim tell us lurks under every bed. Shulamit Aloni, whose honesty about Hasbara would probably go down extremely badly in mainstream Israel today were she still alive, seems more credible, given her official roles and contacts, than some sewage-panning UKMW or CAMERA nerd. Aloni held healthily cynical views about Israel’s relentless exploitation of the Holocaust for political ends, too: “As Education Minister, she also criticized organized tours by Israeli high school pupils to Holocaust concentration camps on grounds that such visits were turning Israeli youth into aggressive, nationalistic xenophobes, claiming that students ‘march with unfurled flags, as if they’ve come to conquer Poland’.”

  24. DavidDaoud
    October 26, 2015, 12:01 pm

    Thank you Assaf Gavron for your article.
    Thank you for writing it.
    It may help to enlighten some people.

  25. MaxNarr
    October 26, 2015, 5:27 pm

    Here is the big difference, the other side has actually been committing violence, with stabbing attacks against Jews on a daily basis. Nothing of the sort is seen in Israel.

  26. JustJessetr
    October 26, 2015, 10:16 pm

    Forget questions of morality or legality. Boycotting Israel, if your true aim is alleviate Palestinian suffering, isn’t even practical.
    Israel has been under boycott officially and unofficially by the Arab/Muslim world since ’48. Yet Palestinians suffer more while Israel grows stronger.
    Get the connection?

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/french-high-court-bds-activists-guilty-of-discrimination/

    • Danaa
      October 28, 2015, 1:41 pm

      Boycotting Israel is, in fact, the only way of getting across the message that state sanctioned barbarism has consequences. Boycott alone will not stop or eliminate the evil that lurks in the heart of Israelis over night. But it will make some take notice of the practical trade-offs for israel. This, in psychological parlance, is called behavior modification.

      At this point in time it is not yet easy to see the positive impact as most israelis are still in a state of denial and/or rage, with their elected officials and representatives resorting to foaming at the mouth, and their hasbara brigades in full hysteria mode. But as the boycott movement tightens and widens, as it becomes clear to israelis that they are indeed pariahs to the rest of the world, the choices they must make will become starker. I believe, a point will come when more and more israelis will start getting beyond the denial and rage phases and re-evaluate who and what they are as humans on this planet. I say that because I also believe that most Israelis do indeed care about the opinion of the world, especially as it reflects their good or bad opinions of themselves. This stage is what begins a transition into something more conducive to civilized behavior – both individually and collectively.

      In the meantime, the palestinians will indeed continue to suffer, but with the growing realization that their sufferings do not go unnoticed, and that each punishment inflicted upon them becomes a boomerang upon the perpetrators in the spiritual dimension. The alternative is to continue and suffer with no one to look or care. So the choice is, again, clear, and I am certain most Palestinians understand the stark choices before them.

      Of course, for the boycott to be effective it does need to become deeper and spread wider. It has to even include a chill in personal contacts with israelis, IMO. Basically ALL israelis and ALL the jews who support them in the west must process what price the occupation exacts. Not of them as mere citizens of a country, but of each and everyone as individuals with choices to make, a spirit to defend and a tradition to preserve.

      • JustJessetr
        October 28, 2015, 3:56 pm

        Well, I’m disturbed that you’re willing to pursue a path that you admit will lead to more Palestinians suffering physically just so you can bring Jews to spiritual suffering (which they have processed masterfully through the centuries without your help by making self-referential art and comedic films). It’s pretzel logic, ultimately uncaring for those you claim to care about, and hateful of Jews.

        Once again, I maintain that boycotts are not practical. And your comment only cements my position.

      • lysias
        October 28, 2015, 4:31 pm

        Exactly what used to be said about boycotting apartheid South Africa: it will hurt the blacks the most.

      • Mooser
        October 28, 2015, 4:39 pm

        JustJessetr: “Well, I’m disturbed…”

        That’s right, you are, now I remember you. Okay, I’ll scroll on down.

      • talknic
        October 28, 2015, 7:28 pm

        JustJessetr

        “… your comment only cements my position.”

        That’s not cement you’re standing in, it’s Ziopoop

    • talknic
      October 28, 2015, 7:52 pm

      @ JustJessetr “Forget questions of morality or legality”

      How Naziesque

      “Boycotting Israel, if your true aim is alleviate Palestinian suffering, isn’t even practical”

      Palestinians are better off under a brutal occupation? What an interesting theory. I’m sure you have plenty more rattling around in the nutcase.

      “Israel has been under boycott officially and unofficially by the Arab/Muslim world since ’48. Yet Palestinians suffer more while Israel grows stronger.
      Get the connection? “

      Yes. The bully bashes, smashes, kills, steals and rather oddly for a so called ‘Jewish’ state, breaks the basic tenets of Judaism while growing fat on the weaker kids’ lunches

      You’re barking up the wrong tree. Take your moaning and groaning and nutcase notions to the Israeli Government and Zionist Federation. It’s their moronic ideas that’ve put Israel in breach of hundreds of UNSC resolutions affording it the OPPORTUNITY to adhere to the BINDING laws/charter/conventions those resolution reaffirm and emphasize.

      BDS aims to rectify that situation. If you or the Israeli Government or the Zionist Federation had the slightest hint of decency or morality you’d be ….. Oh right … I forgot to “Forget questions of morality or legality”

      • JustJessetr
        October 28, 2015, 9:20 pm

        No, I don’t think you do make the connection. Your insistence on supporting boycotts based on morality or legality are simply one more thing that haven’t improved Palestinian lives one bit. How long has this boycott gone on, since ’48? The Arab/Muslim world has put boycotting or even destroying Israel outright in exactly those terms all along: Israel doesn’t deserve to exist, or that it’s just evil. I don’t honestly think that they or you have the interests of the Palestinians in mind. Otherwise you’d be posting pictures of yourself restoring destroyed shelters, or feeding children, or creating business opportunities. It’s obviously just a lot easier to blame Israel for everything which is not the same thing as being pro-Palestinian. It’s activism on the cheap, where you don’t have to sacrifice a thing, but it’s OK if Palestinians suffer because that’s part of your plan to save them.

        Try an approach that produces results, unless your goal is to just sit in bed behind your MacBook and post on websites so you can feel superior.

      • JustJessetr
        October 28, 2015, 9:22 pm

        And I don’t think that the Palestinians are better off under a brutal occupation. But they are certainly better off without you.

      • Mooser
        October 28, 2015, 11:37 pm

        “It’s activism on the cheap, where you don’t have to sacrifice a thing, but it’s OK if Palestinians suffer because that’s part of your plan to save them.”

        So, Israel occupies Palestinian land because Israel is irritated by the comment threads at Mondo, and we should stop. Naturally, “Justjessetr” I take it this is what all your Palestinian friends tell you?

        And what is the Israeli plan to lessen Palestinian suffering? You know, the one which has ground to a halt thanks to Palestine-solidarity activism?

      • diasp0ra
        October 29, 2015, 8:50 am

        @JustJessetr

        What are you even on about?

        Are you so orientalist that you don’t even see that the call for BDS was started by Palestinian civil society? Do you assume that we have no agency at all that the whole boycotting thing was imposed on us from abroad?

        It’s the other way around. We Palestinians know exactly what we are calling for, and people all over the world are responding to OUR call for BDS, not the other way around. Palestinians living under occupation cannot for obvious reasons boycott all Israeli products, but we support the boycott of Israel in any form according to the BDS principles.

        Your “concern” for us is touching. But the same “concerns” were used also in South Africa, arguing that really, you’re harming the people you want to help. History proved everyone who said that otherwise, and history will prove you wrong on this as well.

        This is the most realistic -and in my opinion effective- tool for pressuring Israel. Seeing Israel’s reaction to it, and spending millions to combat it, proves without a doubt that it DOES produce results. They will not be instant, but things are moving.

  27. echinococcus
    October 27, 2015, 12:28 am

    Thank you, Mr Weiss, for the next-to-last paragraph.

  28. Doubtom
    October 27, 2015, 12:28 am

    What? Mon Dieu! and Sacre Bleu besides! You mean to tell me that the Post has joined the reality club? How astounding! Maybe we can look forward to an article delving into this permanent status of victim-hood so often used and abused by the Israelis, or perhaps the automatic smear of ‘antisemitic’ directed to any and all who dare to criticize Israel and its illegal policies? Or maybe an article addressing the stranglehold the Jewish lobbies have on our whorish Congress, which has yet to issue a NO vote on any bill supporting Israel ‘s clearly illegal activities?
    Of course the ultimate demonstration of honest journalism, would have to be an article debunking the “eternal victim-hood” status of the Jews, by pointing to how many of our most populous states are in fact being represented by Jews, despite the well known fact that the Jews represent a bare 2% of the population. Such pitiful “victims”, almost makes one get misty.

  29. thetumta
    October 29, 2015, 10:46 pm

    Perhaps the final solution of the Palestinian problem needs to be completed before all the hand wringers now know what their looking at with certainty? Oooh, we didn’t know!

    Zionism is Racism and an existential threat to American Constitutionalism. Zionism is the last and most successful of the tribal “isms” of the 20th Century. Stalinism, Communism, National Socialism and all of the other “isms”. Zionism is the last man standing and they will take us down the worm hole yet again(Oct.1973).

    Hej! Tumta

    PS Phil do you have a new AV provider? I haven’t been able to post a coherent comment here in some time.

  30. WTraveler
    May 31, 2016, 5:01 am

    Israel has used extraordinary violence and intimidation against Palestinians since 1948, yet its often brutal policies of being “tough” on the Palestinians has not brought Israel any real security. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results. When will the Israeli government learn that its brutal occupation and illegal settlement policies will not lead to peace nor security for Israel?

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