‘We are all Jews’ — the Holocaust as imperial export

US Politics
on 101 Comments

This is part of Marc H. Ellis’s “Exile and the Prophetic” feature for Mondoweiss. To read the entire series visit the archive page.

As International Holocaust Remembrance Day dawned, I was in the Philippines on a month-long teaching and speaking tour. In the Philippines, remembering the Holocaust feels different. The experience of devastation and suffering is ongoing here. When Filipinos look back to their history of suffering, they see their future.

For Filipinos, the future is different than the future Jews around the world experience. Rather than empowerment, with the unbridled and increasing aid Israel receives from the United States, the Philippines remains dependent and vulnerable to American imperial power. It’s unlikely that the current or any future president of the Philippines will be invited to address Congress as Prime Minister Netanyahu did some months ago. Prime Minister Netanyahu was critical of the proposed US deal with Iran. If a Filipino president addressed Congress, and was honest, what would he or she have to say?

So when President Obama declared at the Israeli embassy in Washington D.C, that “We are all Jews,” Filipinos might wonder how that applies to them. If it did apply, the Philippines would soon have a memorial museum in proximity to the Mall in Washington. Such a museum would commemorate their martyrs to the Spanish, the Japanese and, yes, to the Americans. What would that museum be named?

To internationalize Holocaust remembrance, it must cease being Jewish in time and place. Or become truly Jewish in light of Israel and the Palestinians. With the organized, systematic and permanent oppression of the Palestinian people by Israel, with the enablement of Jews in America and the United States government, the Holocaust has ceased to be a prophetic warning for the future. The Holocaust has become an imperial export that continues the cycle of violence and atrocity in different parts of the world, often in its name.

Later that day, I lectured on a Jewish theology of liberation and paid tribute to those Jews who mined the meaning of the Holocaust for Jews and others. Holocaust thinkers probed deeply the disconnection between God and the Jewish people and human endeavor and ethics, as a challenge to Jews and humanity. Yet the trajectory of Holocaust thought is Israel, unmindful of the horrific suffering Israel is causing the Palestinian people. Such thought then censors dissent on the consequences of the use of the Holocaust as a blunt instrument against the Palestinian people.

With the suffering of the Palestinians in mind, I moved quickly to the second “after” of Jewish life. After the Holocaust, yes, but also after what Jews in Israel and beyond have done and are doing to the Palestinian people. If indeed “We are all Jews,” then Jews, too, must contemplate how the memory of the Holocaust functions to the detriment of others. It must be a critical force against the misuse of Jewish power

My Filipino audience resonated with the Holocaust’s dual after’s precisely because the onslaught here continues. But it isn’t only the Philippines where both after’s apply. The truly international importance of Holocaust remembrance awaits a further exploration as the fiftieth anniversary of Israel’s permanent occupation of Palestine looms. When that exploration is named internationally, the horror of Holocaust will remain. It may even be disentangled from those who trumpet the Holocaust as an imperial and colonial power over others.

About Marc H. Ellis

Marc H. Ellis is retired Director and Professor of Jewish Studies at Baylor University and author of The Heartbeat of the Prophetic which can be found at Amazon and www.newdiasporabooks.com

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101 Responses

  1. echinococcus
    January 31, 2016, 11:09 am

    Thank you for this really thoughtful piece. You got the Imperial character of the maudlin commercialization of the dead exactly right.
    One single detail, though: It’s the 69th anniversary of the Zionist entity’s permanent occupation of Palestine that will be coming later this year. Not the 50th.

  2. Stephen Shenfield
    January 31, 2016, 11:55 am

    I don’t where Obama got the idea of saying “we are all Jews” but perhaps it comes from when the Paris students in 1968 chanted “we are all German Jews” after the French education minister referred disparagingly to Daniel Cohn-Bendit as a “German Jew.” If it is supposed to mean “we all stand in solidarity with the persecuted” — not that Obama has the right to claim any such thing — then the contemporary equivalent should be: “we are all Palestinians.”

  3. Steve Grover
    January 31, 2016, 5:56 pm

    Ellis Sez:

    “It’s unlikely that the current or any future president of the Philippines will be invited to address Congress as Prime Minister Netanyahu did some months ago.”
    Maybe a President of the Philippines would be invited as well if the Philippines were under existential threats from Iran.

    Ellis also sez:

    “To internationalize Holocaust remembrance, it must cease being Jewish”
    Why? I guess it is meaningless to you that it was perpetrated against the Jews and the Jews were the victims.

    • Annie Robbins
      February 1, 2016, 12:29 am

      I guess it is meaningless to you that it was perpetrated against the Jews and the Jews were the victims.

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      The Holocaust was a genocide perpetrated by the Nazis, that killed around 11 million people, the majority of whom were Jews.

      i think it’s reasonable to assume 1/2 were jewish, and not the majority.

      • joemowrey
        February 1, 2016, 7:43 pm

        Yes, but Annie, clearly the lives of the jewish half are the only ones that matter. That’s what Zionism is all about, isn’t it? Jews are more important than other people.

    • Mayhem
      February 1, 2016, 6:50 am

      Holocaust denial and distortion are generally motivated by hatred of Jews, and build on the claim that the Holocaust was invented or exaggerated by Jews as part of a plot to advance Jewish interests. This view perpetuates long-standing antisemitic stereotypes by accusing Jews of conspiracy and world domination, hateful charges that were instrumental in laying the groundwork for the Holocaust. Refer link to ushmm.org
      Ellis sails very close to the wind with his remarks, virtually advocating for the distortion of the plain reality of the Holocaust as something that fundamentally targeted to the Jews, by suggesting that we need to dejudaize the Holocaust, because the ramifications of the Holocaust are not directly relevant to some people. The uninformed must understand its special significance for the Jews whose global population still has not returned to where it was prior to World War II and the Filipinos may well learn important universal lessons and find out things of which they are ignorant.
      There were consequences for many nations and people following the Holocaust and to be virtually blaming the principal sufferers of the Holocaust for manipulating the Holocaust for political advantage is quite frankly obscene. Just as obscene as the efforts of those who try to jump on the Holocaust bandwagon to sell their own wares.
      Robbins, likes to tout the others who died at the hands of the Nazi war machine, but overlooks one key difference in that the Nazis were aiming to annihilate all the Jews in the world wherever they lived. This potential Holocaust for a single people that could have seen them completely wiped out was not faced by any other group.

      • Theo
        February 1, 2016, 8:42 am

        Samy Davis Jr. tried to help with the numbers, however I must wonder how did he prove that he is of jewish decent.

      • amigo
        February 1, 2016, 10:14 am

        Mayhem , scraping the bottom of the barrel , eh ?.

      • lysias
        February 1, 2016, 11:11 am

        This potential Holocaust for a single people that could have seen them completely wiped out was not faced by any other group.

        I wonder why Mayhem, like so many, forgets about the Gypsies.

      • Mooser
        February 1, 2016, 12:41 pm

        “Holocaust denial and distortion are generally motivated by hatred of Jews, and build on the claim that the Holocaust was invented or exaggerated by Jews as part of a plot to advance Jewish interests.”

        The present changes the past. And not always in ways we like. People make judgements about things in the past based on what they see in the present. I’ve been watching it happen. Yeah, in many ways it’s scary and awful.
        What do you think we can do about it?

      • eljay
        February 1, 2016, 1:23 pm

        When non-Zionists “single out ‘the Jews'”, it’s anti-Semitic and Jew-hatred.

        When Zio-supremacists “single out ‘the Jews'”, it’s anti-Semitic and Jew-hatred not to single them out.

        Interesting.

      • Froggy
        February 1, 2016, 3:55 pm

        Mayhem :: “The uninformed must understand its special significance for the Jews….”

        Back when I lived in the US my sons’ history / holocaust teacher made that point. Of course, knowing that she was Jewish I offered her my condolences on the loss of her relatives in Europe.

        To give the woman credit where it’s due, she was honest enough to admit that her family were already settled in the US by the end of the first decade of the last century. She went on to describe in pitiful detail the existential angst that she (and all Jews) felt over the [..]holocaust.

        My only response was to tell her that my grandfather was sent to Dachau, along with his brothers. Her shocked response was to blurt out, ‘I didn’t know you were Jewish.’ ~big grin~

        I responded by stating that my grandfather was a French Catholic… as were all the members of my mother’s family murdered by the Nazi occupiers. (These included my mother’s older sister, and her teenage brothers. She was only ten when our village’s residents were forced to watch as her brothers and other village lads were shot. Her sister, who had just turned 21, was taken away and tortured to death by the Gestapo.)

        ‘I didn’t know you were Jewish’, was, and is, the Americans response.

        Numerous factors have contributed to the American public’s perception of the Holocaust as an exclusively Jewish event. Recognizing these factors–misinformation, misrepresentation, and political agendas–should be the first step in correcting America’s skewed version of Holocaust history. The Holocaust was an event of mass prejudice and abuse of power. It entailed the murdering of many millions of people who were singled out for their differences, whether they be religious, ethnic, physical, political, social or national. Over six million Jewish people were murdered by virtue of their ethnicity and religion, while somewhere between sixteen and twenty million non-Jews were also murdered because they did not fit the homogeneous mold the Nazi regime had selected for the German nation. Consequently, the image of the Holocaust as strictly a Jewish event must be corrected. If not, millions of non-Jews will have died without a record in history, and the Holocaust will never be an accurate portrayal of the actual historical event.

        After the end of World War II, with the Jewish people seen as the victims of a Holocaust, those who had turned their backs on the exterminations felt a collective sympathy and guilt. World guilt, anger, and outrage at the Jewish death toll spurred not only the global attitude favorable for a Jewish state, but also gave justification to the Jewish people to fight, and to see themselves as martyrs of the world. This is an image that has been fostered and fiercely protected by the Jewish people since the end of World War II. As long as the Holocaust centers exclusively on the Jewish people, it reaffirms in the world consciousness the necessity to maintain the Jewish state of Israel, so an atrocity such as the Holocaust will never happen again to their people.

        Overlooked Millions: Non-Jewish Victims of the Holocaust Karen Silverstrim,
        link to ukemonde.com

        You can also read :

        Michael Berenbaum,ed., A Mosaic of Victims: Non-Jews Persecuted and Murdered by the Nazis (New York/London, 1990).

        Lukas, Richard C. The Forgotten Holocaust: The Poles under German Occupation 1939-1944. Lexington, Kentucky: University Press of Kentucky, 1986.

        There were consequences for many nations and people following the Holocaust and to be virtually blaming the principal sufferers of the Holocaust for manipulating the Holocaust for political advantage….

        Almost all of the ‘principal sufferers’ of the holocaust are dead. They died along with the Russians, the Poles, the Greeks, the Sinti and the Roma, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the homosexuals, the disabled, the popululations of Lidice and Oradour-sur-Glane, and the many millions of other civilian victims of Nazi (and Japanese) atrocities.

        Souviens-Toi

        Of course certain groups in the Jewish community manipulate the holocaust for political and financial gain.

        Just as obscene as the efforts of those who try to jump on the Holocaust bandwagon to sell their own wares.

        You just described yourself, and the other holocaust promoters, like my son’s rather dim teacher.

        Robbins, likes to tout the others who died at the hands of the Nazi war machine, but overlooks one key difference in that the Nazis were aiming to annihilate all the Jews in the world wherever they lived. This potential Holocaust for a single people that could have seen them completely wiped out was not faced by any other group.

        That is what these teachers taught my sons. Of course, it’s a lie.

        “Hitler had a vision of a Master Race of Aryans that would control Europe. He used very powerful propaganda techniques to convince not only the German people, but countless others, that if they eliminated the people who stood in their way and the degenerates and racially inferior, they – the great Germans would prosper.

        Neighboring Poland – The First Target: “All Poles will disappear from the world…. It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles.” — Heinrich Himmler”

        link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org

        People remain sympathetic to the real victims , but almost no one cares about the modern Jewish community’s manufactured and self-serving personal angst.

        We see how much concern the Jewish community has for the realJewish victims of the holocaust who are living amongst them. If they really care, why does the Jewish community permit so many of those Jewish holocaust survivors – the real victims, mind you – to suffer in such such terrible poverty? Where did the many tens of millions paid out by the Germans as reparations go if not to ease the final years of these people, the real victims of the holocaust?

        link to jpost.com

        link to ynetnews.com

        link to telegraph.co.uk

        link to npr.org

        link to rt.com

        Even as Israel has broadened its qualifications for survivor benefits, a large portion of Israel’s nearly 200,000 survivors live in poverty. A 2015 survey by the Foundation for the Benefit of Holocaust Victims in Israel found that one quarter of Israeli survivors can’t afford medicine, while 30 percent sometimes go without food. Two-thirds say they are “distressed” by their financial situation.

        link to jta.org

        Yes, the entire world sees how much Jews like you care about the Jewish victims.

        As for the non-Jewish victims of the holocaust, people like you remain ‘holocaust deniers’.

      • Stephen Shenfield
        February 1, 2016, 3:56 pm

        Mayhem: “was not faced by any other group”?

        Do you really not know about the Porajmos — the Romani genocide??

      • Mooser
        February 1, 2016, 5:45 pm

        “Samy Davis Jr. tried to help with the numbers”

        Theo, even when there’s no obvious ‘descent’ from Jewish people, there’s still, like most other religions, a conversion process. Sammy Davis Jr. was converted to Judaism.

      • Kris
        February 1, 2016, 6:29 pm

        Froggy @ February 1, 2016, 3:55 pm —

        Thank you for this outstanding post, Froggy.

      • Keith
        February 1, 2016, 9:48 pm

        MAYHEM- “…to be virtually blaming the principal sufferers of the Holocaust for manipulating the Holocaust for political advantage is quite frankly obscene.”

        The overwhelming majority of Jews who died in the Holocaust were either non-Zionist or anti-Zionist, and no one is blaming these principal sufferers of the Holocaust. Zionist Jews, on the other hand, cooperated with the Nazis more than any other Jewish group. You may care to read “Zionism in the Age of the Dictators,” by Lenni Brenner.

        As for Zionist exploitation of the Holocaust, it takes real talent to miss it, and a ton of chutzpah to deny it. A quote for you: “From a purely instrumental standpoint, the Shoah proved the greatest asset ever acquired by Zionism, one seduously cultivated over the Years.” (p66, “Overcoming Zionism,” Joel Kovel) Also, “Although many Jews were initially opposed to the creation of Israel, the Zionists were able to use the Hitler tragedy to obliterate anti-Zionist opposition and non-Zionist indifference in capturing every aspect of organized Jewish life.” (P206, “The Zionist Connection II,” Alfred M. Lilienthal). See also, The “Holocaust Industry,” by Norman Finkelstein.

      • rosross
        February 2, 2016, 1:25 am

        It was not for a single people, it was for a single religion. The Romanies were a people and discriminated against on the basis of race. The Nazis were responsible for the deaths of all Eastern European Gypsies and on a per capital basis, the Romanies suffered more than followers of Judaism.

        Yes, I know Hitler described Jews as a race but they were not and are not, beyond the same religious metaphor used by many in regard to their members.

        And since Jews during this time lived around the world and in parts of Europe not touched by the Germans and their allies, quite safely it seems, even Hitler’s obsession never threatened followers of the religion in any absolute sense.

        Hitler may well have managed to dominate Europe if the Germans had won but they were never going to dominate the world and Jews around the world would still not have been threatened.

        It is hyperbolic to suggest otherwise.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 2, 2016, 3:39 am

        i wasn’t touting anything mayhem. it certainly doesn’t demean the notion hitler targeted the jews to point out he also holocausted millions of other people does it? what’s the point of all this ‘majority’ anyway. i am not going to bicker w/you about precise numericals. why would you claim it is ‘meaningless’ to me?

        i am really not understanding what you are so miffed about. it was a world war, hence there was lots of death, cruelty and suffering. but frankly, i am not more upset about a millions of poles or millions of jews or gays or gypsies or whatever. and i don’t worship the holocaust as i don’t worship – in 2016 – the deaths of russians during the holodomor. it happened before my birth. my mother who was horribly effected is dead. her brother who died is dead. i am not wired to mourn humanities losses from 70 years ago when there are tragedies occurring in 2016. this is what strains my emotional barriers. thing like this: link to mondoweiss.net

        there are tragedies taking place right now. but it doesn’t mean it is meaningless to me what happened last century. i just do not place it on an alter or a shrine and keep a fire burning. when i went to the shrine / museum on the mall in dc — of course it was horrific. but the lessons i learned from it were not about jews, it was about mans capabilities to be cruel to mankind. of course to honor the dead.

        i understand his intent was to kill all the jews. but i can’t honor those who didn’t die as if he had. i can only honor those he killed, which includes lots of other people. it does appear, you put more weight on what his intent was, rather than honoring the ones who died. so for all the jews he wanted to kill, vs the non jews he did kill — i think it’s clear one means more to me over the other. when it comes down to the living or the dead, i will mourn more for those who died– rather thn the ones he intended to kill and didn’t.

      • lysias
        February 2, 2016, 10:43 am

        Hitler didn’t just want to exterminate all people who practiced the Jewish religion. He also set about exterminating those of Jewish ancestry who had converted to other religions, notably Christianity. (Also Islam, in the case of the Doenme.)

      • Keith
        February 2, 2016, 6:12 pm

        ANNIE- “i am really not understanding what you are so miffed about.”

        He is miffed because you are blaspheming his Holocaust religion. Eternal and irrational Gentile anti-Semitism and the uniqueness of the Holocaust are central themes of Jewish Zionism which will be defended. How else to defend and justify Israel? Of course it is not rational, how could it be? You are dealing with a form of fundamentalist zealotry. Mere facts are no match for faith and commitment.

    • Theo
      February 1, 2016, 8:04 am

      Noone with a right mind can deny the Holocaust, although the numbers killed vary according to different sources. Nevertheless, mass murder stays mass murder.
      What bothers me is that there were also millions not jews killed and this is never even mentioned when we talk about the german mass murder. In those concentration camps died gypsies, priests, homosexuals, communists and socialists, children and adults with menthal disability, slave workers from occupied countries, and according to records, over a million soviet POVs were starved to death. Altogether these may even surpass the number of jewish victims, so we should not forget those unfortunate persons, they were also systematically worked and starved to death or gassed outright.

      • rosross
        February 2, 2016, 1:35 am

        Quote: The genocidal policies of the Nazis resulted in the deaths of about as many Polish Gentiles as Polish Jews, thus making them co-victims in a Forgotten Holocaust. This Holocaust has been largely ignored because historians who have written on the subject of the Holocaust have chosen to interpret the tragedy in exclusivistic terms–namely, as the most tragic period in the history of the Jewish Diaspora. To them, the Holocaust was unique to the Jews, and they therefore have had little or nothing to say about the nine million Gentiles, including three million Poles, who also perished in the greatest tragedy the world has ever known. Little wonder that many people who experienced these events share the feeling of Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Milosz, who anxious when the meaning of the word Holocaust undergoes gradual modifications, so that the word begins to belong to the history of the Jews exclusively, as if among the victims there were not also millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, and prisoners of other nationalities. — Richard C. Lukas, preface to The Forgotten Holocaust: The Poles under German Occupation 1939-1944.

        It is often forgotten, not known, ignored, but the figure of six million dead Jews, a number by the way cited by the Zionists some 50 years before Hitler appeared, comes from a collation of all Jewish deaths during this period, by anyone, for any reason and does not apply to Jewish deaths only at the hands of the Nazis.

        However, the numbers are really not what is important given the carnage of the times, and if they were less or more or correct, is no longer the issue. It was all utterly horrendous and it was and is, all worthy of acknowledging.

        Ukraine lost up to 7million people at the hands of the Russians as well as the Nazis during the Second World War, and Russia, under Stalin, lost tens of millions, as much as 60million in some estimations.

        Mao Zedong is said to have killed more than Hitler and Stalin combined. Is number-crunching really what is important in regard to such horrors in our history?

        It is all utterly ghastly. And that is why the human experience of Holocaust must not be seen as particular to one group, but recognised for what it is; a deadly expression of the capacity of humans to fear and hate.

        Without accepting that such fear and hate can be a part of any of us, anywhere, anytime, we are doomed to repeat the horrors – as we have seen.

    • rosross
      February 1, 2016, 7:29 pm

      Jews were amongst those who underwent a holocaust experience at the hands of the Nazis and on a per capita basis, Gypsies suffered even greater losses.

      However, the greatest tragedy of the holocausts inflicted by the Nazis on the basis of race, religion, sexual preference, political beliefs, against Romanies, Slavs, Jews, homosexuals, political dissenters, Poles, Russians , is that it was not the first or the last and not the worst because all of the human experiences of holocaust have been and are horrendous. Suffering is equal, it is not selective.

      One group does not suffer more in the face of such horrors than another. One experience of holocaust is not greater or worse than that of others.

      The tragedy for Judaism is that it has carried a belief in the exceptionality of Jewish suffering in terms of the experience of holocaust. This is perhaps not surprising given the nature of the religion as it retains within its teachings long histories of suffering which have created a victim mentality in the religion itself.

      Zionism was founded on the exceptionality of Judaism and has worked hard to use the Jewish experience of holocaust as ‘justification’ for the colonisation of Palestine and the dispossession of the indigenous people.

      Israel, founded by Zionism, has always carried these beliefs in exceptionality and victimhood and the culture and society, by necessity, has always been and remains on a foundation of fear, more imagined than real, certainly for the past half century.

      No healthy human being can ever result as long as there is a belief in exceptionality or victimhood and when the two are combined, the destructive aspects are so much greater. No nation can survive with this combination of beliefs for each prevents healing and maturity, not to mention psychological balance.

      The human experience of Holocaust is what needs to be remembered if we are ever to learn anything about how and why it happens in order to prevent it doing so.

      There is no shortage, sadly, of the human experience of Holocaust that we can mine for greater understanding.

      As long as Holocaust is seen as being an experience particular to members of the Jewish religion, most of the world will fail to connect with it because it is not considered to be a part of their culture, society, religion or race, even as other holocaust experiences which are relevant to them, litter our past, destroy our present and threaten our future.

      When all experiences of Holocaust are considered equal and all are remembered and explored during any Holocaust Memorial, then, and only then, will we we honouring the terrible suffering of all human beings subjected to such trauma, and then, and only then, can we take steps to prevent it happening.

    • Theo
      February 2, 2016, 9:58 am

      Steve Grover

      The first victims of the nazis were not jews, but liberals, socialists, communists, catholic priests, etc., in general who were against the Hitler regime. If among them there were jews, they were not interned because of their religion, but for political reasons.
      Dachau was in business since 1933 and only five years later were jews interned for being jews.

  4. lysias
    January 31, 2016, 6:08 pm

    Whatever Obama may say, I am not a Jew. I suppose in a sense Catholics like me are Jews, but, as long as Israel behaves the way it does and too many Jews outside Israel support the misdeeds of Israel, I have no desire to identify myself as a Jew,

    • echinococcus
      February 1, 2016, 12:15 am

      Lysias,

      For that same reason, overwhelming support for conquest and genocide by the tribe, a number of “biological” Jews absolutely refuse to be identified as “Jewish”, too.
      Accepting the enemy as a brother doesn’t strike me as proper conduct in this war.

    • Mayhem
      February 1, 2016, 6:59 am

      If Israeli Jews learned one important lesson from the Holocaust it was “never again”- they would never again go meekly as sheep to the slaughter.
      If the weaponry that Israel has to defend itself was transferred into the hands of the PA and Hamas Israel would never survive.

      • talknic
        February 1, 2016, 7:26 am

        Israel is not defending itself. It is maintaining control over territory it has illegally acquired by war since proclaiming its borders. Territories the Israeli Government itself claimed were “outside the territory of the State of Israel” link to pages.citebite.com

      • eljay
        February 1, 2016, 9:32 am

        || Mayhem: If Israeli Jews learned one important lesson from the Holocaust it was “never again”- they would never again go meekly as sheep to the slaughter. … ||

        Meanwhile, Zio-supremacist Jews learned that:
        – acts of injustice and immorality against Jews justify acts of injustice and immorality by Jews;
        – Jews are entitled to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them; and
        – loyalty to the oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel is an essential part of being Jewish.

        IOW, they learned absolutely nothing of any moral value or having to do with justice, accountability and equality.

        Zio-supremacists are truly hateful and immoral hypocrites.

      • amigo
        February 1, 2016, 9:55 am

        “If Israeli Jews learned one important lesson from the Holocaust it was “never again”- they would never again go meekly as sheep to the slaughter.”mayhem.

        I don,t think they have learned that lesson at all.Expecting Palestinians to go meekly to the slaughter under the Zionist Jackboot that seeks to steal their land and ethnically cleanse and in many cases , exterminate them is hardly proof Jews have learned anything from their own history.

        The weaponry Israel has is not to defend themselves from marauding invaders.Au contraire , it is used to slaughter people who are defending themselves against zionist marauding land thieve and murderers.

        But worry not mayhem , the day is coming when Jews /Zionists like you will learn a lesson but it will be far too late.You had your chance to have a state but you f—-d it up and got greedy.There won,t be a second chance and this time , your welcome back into the diaspora will not be as welcoming as the last time.Oh well , no skin off my nose.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        February 1, 2016, 11:22 am

        Others have already pointed out that Israel is not in fact defending itself, but I have another point.

        If the only thing allowing Israel to survive is the fact that they have slicker weaponry than their ‘enemies’, that’s not much of a recipe for long-term survival, is it? Things never stay the same. Israel might have the best equipped armies today, and its enemies may be in disarray, but that will not always be the case. Even with the best weaponry US taxpayers’ money can buy, Israel has not won a war since 1973. Fancy guns are all very fine, but they don’t win wars against people who are prepared to live underground for months on end, while all your boyz can think of is whether they look hot in their uniforms in their Instagram pics.

        Israel has created so much hatred, not just among Palestinians, but among millions of people in the region. You seriously think you can hold that at bay indefinitely, just because you’ve got shinier guns? Wouldn’t it be better to try to get along with your neighbours, who outnumber you many times over? After all, Jews outside of Israel don’t depend on donated weaponry to survive. They just form a normal part of the socities they live in. Sounds a lot better than a miserable existence of war after war after war, which is all going to come tumbling down some day.

      • italian ex-pat
        February 1, 2016, 1:11 pm

        @Mayhem

        Forgive me if I’m wrong, but the fact that European Jews went ‘meakly as sheep to the slaughter’ is, I believe, a sore point for Diaspora Jews everywhere. Not exactly shame, but dismay that so many people didn’t have the guts to at least try to overwhelm some German guards, especially when they knew what was going to happen to them. I think I would rather die trying to wrestle a gun from a Nazi than being led to a certain death without a fight. Of course, it’s easy to judge in hindsight, terror can paralyze a person. But all of them? They certainly outnumbered the guards.

        In any case, trasferring the hate from the Nazis to the Palestinians strikes me as absurd. What did they have to do with the Holocaust?
        The Isreali don’t seem to have any problem with modern day Germany, in fact are more than happy to accept ‘reparations’ from the descendants of the WWII Nazi criminals. Is everything really all about money?

      • MHughes976
        February 1, 2016, 6:40 pm

        The Hilberg-Arendt theses , both imputing some blame to at least some Jewish people for those dire events, in a sense suggesting timorous or even meek behaviour, were not at all well received in Israel. Those ideas are any event open to objection for overstating the opportunities for resistance, but I also think, especially since reading Snyder’s Bloodlands, (I’m not its greatest fan) that there is an underestimate of real opportunities for resistance that were seized. Resistance that was called communist or partisan surely had a Jewish element that will be more recognised as the fog of propaganda lifts. The Jewish people caught up in those things were in a terrible situation but they didn’t disgrace themselves.

      • rosross
        February 1, 2016, 8:10 pm

        You appear to conveniently overlook the fact that most Jews do not live in UN mandated Israel or Occupied Palestine, never did and never will.

        Most Jews are citizens of hundreds of countries around the world, including Iran and consider themselves to be secure. Your misplaced paranoia is no more than a ploy to seek to justify the occupation of the Palestinians.

        Has it not occurred to you that first of all you might be quite wrong about the Palestinians, should they have access to Israeli weaponry, because then of course they would be free, and that so much slaughter by the Israelis would then end?

        There is an elitist assumption that Israeli colonists are superior in terms of handling weaponry when in fact it is Israel subjugating the Palestinians and killing and maiming them, Israel attacking its neighbours, and Israel the rogue state in the region.

      • echinococcus
        February 2, 2016, 8:21 am

        Mayhem,

        Give us one good reason why “Israel’ should survive. One.

  5. Jon66
    January 31, 2016, 8:23 pm

    “WASHINGTON — In a German prison camp 71 years ago, Master Sgt. Roddie Edmonds stared down the barrel of his Nazi captor’s pistol and refused to say which of his fellow prisoners of war were Jewish.

    “We are all Jews here,” said Sergeant Edmonds, the highest-ranking American noncommissioned officer at Ziegenhain stalag that day, instead ordering more than 1,000 of his fellow prisoners to stand together in front of their barracks. The Geneva Convention required prisoners to provide only their name, rank and serial number, not their religion, Sergeant Edmonds said, warning the German that if he shot them all, he would be tried for war crimes.

    That act of defiance in January 1945 spared the lives of as many as 200 Jews, and, on Wednesday, President Obama echoed Sergeant Edmonds’s words of solidarity with the Jews as he recognized him posthumously as the first American service member to be named Righteous Among the Nations, an honor bestowed on non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews during the Holocaust.”

    • Mayhem
      February 1, 2016, 7:01 am

      @Jon66, and we can’t forget the Danish people who wore the star of David on their arms to say to the Nazis that they were Jews too.

      • YoniFalic
        February 1, 2016, 9:16 am

        Such ignorant crap. Danes never wore the Star of David. Educated people must scorn the ignoramuses and the propagandists (viz The Star of David myth and the World War II rescue of Danish Jewry).

        BTW, King Christian X of Denmark was a member of the German House of Glücksburg. Thus, he was part of the Hohenzollern elite that the German Nazis displaced. It is hardly surprising that he had contempt for Hitler and his supporters.

        When ignorant propagandists and morons claim that the Danes wore the Star of David, I can’t help but doubt the Roddie Edmond’s story.

      • Mooser
        February 1, 2016, 11:55 am

        ” I can’t help but doubt the Roddie Edmond’s story.”

        Well, you must remember that in the US, Jews have no special protections, and are just citizens. And this principle can even extend to cover the exigencies of POW camps.

      • Kris
        February 1, 2016, 6:46 pm

        Here’s an account of how the Danish Jews were helped to escape to Sweden, after being tipped off by a German naval attache that the Nazis were about to deport all Danish Jews to concentration camps: link to bbc.com .

        What stories of heroic compassion can we find to tell about Israeli Jews? Does anyone know of any?

      • echinococcus
        February 1, 2016, 7:59 pm

        Kris,

        Important question, thanks.
        One answer that just suggests itself would be that the German population, being on its own soil, had all the different components of a nation: even under the extreme conditions of a Nazi military dictatorship many people were committed enough to risk their life fighting the regime and helping its victims.
        In he case of the Zionist entity, their master-race citizen population in its almost entirety was selectively imported by the illegal immigration system, outside those who had been forced to it during the war and the immediate postwar. The selection brought Zionists, and the local “culture” remains obviously one geared at producing the maximum of bubble-fed Zionists in the following generations. Even the presence of rare decent people, like Atzmon, Yoni Falic, Ms Abarbanel, etc. is almost a miracle.

      • rosross
        February 2, 2016, 1:47 am

        Quote: Although the Danes did undertake heroic efforts to shelter their Jews and help them escape from the Nazis, there is no real-life example of the actions described by this legend. Danish citizens never wore the yellow badge, nor did King Christian ever threaten to don it himself. In fact, Danish Jews never wore the yellow badge either (except for the few who were finally deported to concentration camps), nor did German officials Star ever issue an order requiring Danish Jews to display it.

        ….

        Although this legend may not be true in its specifics, it was certainly true enough in spirit. The rescue of several thousand Danish Jews was accomplished through the efforts of “thousands of policemen, government officials, physicians, and persons of all walks of life.” The efforts to save Danish Jews may not have had the flair of the “yellow star” legend, and they may not have required quite so many citizens to visibly oppose an occupying army, but those who were rescued undoubtedly preferred substance to style.

        link to snopes.com

    • Theo
      February 1, 2016, 8:21 am

      jon66

      The story must be true, however your mathematic must be corrected. You say out of 1,000 men he saved the lives of “as many as 200”. That would make that US military unit 20% jewish, an unbelievable ratio. I spent many years in the military and jews do not add up to even to 2%, their share in the US population, never mind 20%. Were those not 20 jews?
      This comment is not to change the spirit of the story, he was still a very brave man.

    • rosross
      February 1, 2016, 8:11 pm

      Was anything similar done for the Gypsies? It would be interesting to know.

  6. YoniFalic
    January 31, 2016, 8:25 pm

    People that say we are all Jews simply don’t know or don’t understand the history.

    It took me about 4 years to get all the ethnic/secular “Jew”/Leidensgeschichte crap out of my brain, and I had to spend a lot of time in Jewish studies courses and seminars at Columbia.

    The Yiddish-speaking minority in E. Europe and the Czarist Empire was an elite group just like Russian and Polish nobility. The Yiddish-speakers were poor, but everyone was (except for a small number of Russian and Polish magnates). It was a backward part of the world and desperately required modernization.

    Russianized Yiddish-speakers like Russianized Poles, Ukrainians, Latvians, Belorussians, and Lithuanians were angry because they did not move up politically or economically fast enough.

    The Czarist government simply was not willing to concede large parts of the economy to Yiddish community or to the Polish nobility, which in terms of educational and economic criteria was almost identical to to the Yiddish community.

    Overall the Yiddish community and the Polish nobility were more educated, lived longer, and had higher incomes than the other groups among whom they lived.

    It was a volatile situation and ended with the overthrow of the Czarist Empire because there was no clear solution and the absorption of a large part of Commonwealth Poland into Czarist Empire fatally destabilized the Czarist state.

    The Russian and Bolshevik Revolutions constituted in some sense the revenge of the Russianized minorities.

    The German Nazi Regime, which represented a comparable complete erasure of the Hohenzollern elite, was a reaction to the Bolshevik Bloodbath, for which the Russianized Yiddish community supplied an astounding proportion of the bloodiest protagonists.

    When I look at this history, I like Rosa Luxemburg see no particularly or especially “Jewish” suffering. It is time to get past this history. The Polish nobles got over their history and voted themselves out of existence. It is time for us, whose great grandparents practiced Judaism to get over the Jewish shtick and reject the “secular/ethnic Jewish” identity that is causing so much evil in the ME.

    When Obama, who does not have a clue about history, spews stupid cliches that we are all Jews, he sounds like a moron that might have claimed we were all French nobles during the Reign of Terror.

    Edmond Burke is supposed to have said, “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” Actually, the Soviet filmmaker Sergei Fedorovich Bondarchuk probably originated the idea in the narration of his version of War and Peace.

    In point of fact, good outcomes are usually highly improbably whatever good men do, but we progressives of Jewish ancestry can do some simple things to increase the probability of a good outcome in Palestine. We can reject “Jewish” identity, denounce the racist genocidal State of Israel without qualification, and scorn morons that babble idiocy as Obama does.

    • Mayhem
      February 1, 2016, 6:47 am

      YoniFalic’s potted history of the ‘Yiddish community’ would make many purveyors of anti-semitic tropes proud. He disingenuously skips the pogroms and the rampant anti-semitism that were the pre-conditions for the Holocaust. His flagrant rejection of Jewish identity as being valid puts him into a Jew-hating league of his own.

      • amigo
        February 1, 2016, 10:09 am

        Mayhem , a cursory scan of your archives demonstrates just how far from being a real Jew you have traveled. You are on the far right of zionism and you do not know how to go back..Your future is not potted.It does not exist.

      • Mooser
        February 1, 2016, 12:08 pm

        “He disingenuously skips the pogroms and the rampant anti-semitism that were the pre-conditions for the Holocaust.”

        And to think that all happened to us poor Jews during the period of the greatest peace and prosperity the world has ever known! All that peace, stability and prosperity, and they used it to come after us!
        I could plotz when I think about it!

      • Mooser
        February 1, 2016, 12:48 pm

        “His flagrant rejection of Jewish identity as being valid.”

        It is amazing what growing up in Israel and serving in the IDF will do for a guy.

      • Steve Grover
        February 2, 2016, 8:46 pm

        Mooser sez:
        “It is amazing what growing up in Israel and serving in the IDF will do for a guy.”
        Oh yeah Mooser IDF vets are fleeing Israel and are saying how much they hate their country in droves.

      • Mooser
        February 2, 2016, 9:35 pm

        “Oh yeah Mooser IDF vets are fleeing Israel and are saying how much they hate their country in droves.”

        “Steve”, let’s play “IDF trivial pursuits”! What’s the leading cause of death in the IDF? SQUELCH!! eww, what’s that smell?

      • talknic
        February 2, 2016, 10:00 pm

        Steve Grover “… IDF vets are fleeing Israel and are saying how much they hate their country in droves”

        If you say so. No-one else is

      • Steve Grover
        February 2, 2016, 10:41 pm

        Mooser,
        What’s your point?

      • Mooser
        February 2, 2016, 11:05 pm

        “What’s your point?”

        What’s my point? You, you, said: “IDF vets are fleeing Israel and are saying how much they hate their country in droves.” “Steve Grover” – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

        I simply pointed out one of the leading ways they do it.

    • Stephen Shenfield
      February 1, 2016, 5:01 pm

      Under Polish rule the Jews did indeed form a privileged estate allied with the even more privileged estate of the Polish nobility, but under Russian rule they all fell on hard times. It’s true that even an impoverished Jew or Polish noble was better off than a serf, and the Jewish poor could rely on communal charity. The Polish nobles never completed abandoned their noble identity, but they were absorbed into modern Polish nationalism, just as the Jews eventually created their own nationalisms, Zionism and Bundism, which borrowed a lot from their Polish counterpart. So the two cases are similar in many ways (abstracting from the colonial dimension of Zionism).

      I’m not convinced that our rejecting Jewish identity is helpful to Palestinians. Denunciation of Israel does not depend on rejection of Jewish identity. Many Jews denounce Israel in the name of Judaism or Jewishness. In fact, rejecting Jewish identity altogether may lead to near-indifference to the issue of Palestine. Why should a de-Judaized progressive care about Palestine more than about Myanmar, for instance? Rosa Luxemburg had no special feeling for Jewish suffering, but even if she had survived another few decades I don’t think she would have developed any special feeling for Palestinian suffering either.

      • Mooser
        February 1, 2016, 5:24 pm

        “I’m not convinced that our rejecting Jewish identity is helpful to Palestinians.”

        I don’t know Stephen, I would tend to trust someone raised in Israel, and possibly even with IDF experience, on that question. He ought to know.
        And aren’t there other ex-Israelis (if that is the correct term) who feel the same way?
        They should know. Sure I don’t like to think that rejection is necessary, but nobody has done with my Jewish identity what has been done with an Israeli’s so I don’t know.

      • rosross
        February 2, 2016, 1:53 am

        Of course rejecting Judaism makes no difference to Palestinians and Jewish identity comes from being a member of the religion.

        I am sure that most Palestinians know there is a difference between an Israeli Jew and Jews from other countries, just as not all Christians were hated because many Nazis were Christians.

        Most Jews do not live in Israel, never did and never will, and Israel does not represent Jews or Judaism.

        What is important for Jews however is to separate themselves from the actions of Israel as an occupier, coloniser and apartheid State and many of them are doing that increasingly with Mondoweiss being an admirable example of such integrity and common sense.

      • Mooser
        February 2, 2016, 10:50 am

        “Of course rejecting Judaism makes no difference to Palestinians”

        Huh? Who ever said it should?
        Rejecting Judaism might make a hell of a lot of difference to Zionism!!!

        Ever think about it that way?

      • rosross
        February 2, 2016, 5:39 pm

        @Mooser,

        The comment about rejecting Judaism meaning nothing to Palestinians was in reference to someone else’s comment.

        I also said at some point that it is important for members of Judaism to make it clear that they do not support Israel’s actions as occupier, coloniser and apartheid State.

        It is important for the religion to separate itself completely from the State and that means members of the religion must speak out.

        Anyone who retains the label Jew for themselves is a member of the religion, whether practising or not, and it behoves all of conscience to distance themselves from the Israeli State which claims to speak in their name.

      • Mooser
        February 2, 2016, 9:42 pm

        “The comment about rejecting Judaism meaning nothing to Palestinians was in reference to someone else’s comment.”

        Yes, you are right, and I should have quoted directly from that comment. I’m sorry, “rosross” and I’ll be more careful about that here on in.

      • rosross
        February 2, 2016, 10:11 pm

        @ Mooser,

        All good. By the way, how do you get quotes in italic?

      • Sibiriak
        February 2, 2016, 11:11 pm

        rosross: Anyone who retains the label Jew for themselves is a member of the religion…
        —————

        So an atheistic Jew is a member of a theistic religion? That’s some pretty fancy mental gymnastics!

      • Kris
        February 3, 2016, 11:59 am

        @Rosross: “All good. By the way, how do you get quotes in italic?”

        Here is a guide to using HTML commands: link to computerhope.com .

        To get italics, you type a lesser-than symbol , and then your quote, and then a lesser-than symbol , then a slash /, then an i, and then a greater-than symbol > .

      • Kris
        February 3, 2016, 12:15 pm

        RosRoss, I’m sorry, I edited my instructions so many times that they make no sense. Just go to link to computerhope.com and you will see how to put text into italics.

        Basically, you bracket the command, which is i for italics, between a less-than symbol and a greater-than symbol to begin your italics, and at the end of your italics, you do the same thing, only you also put a backward slash in front of the i.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 3, 2016, 12:28 pm

        ross,

        type this:

        <

        then type:

        i

        then type:

        >

        do not place any gaps between them. then write the text you’d like italiced.

        then type:

        <

        then:

        /

        next:

        i

        Lastly:

        >

        try it and see if it works. for bold replace the “i” with a “b”.

      • Kris
        February 3, 2016, 12:29 pm

        Thanks, Annie!

      • Annie Robbins
        February 3, 2016, 12:38 pm

        ;) my pleasure!

      • Mooser
        February 3, 2016, 4:19 pm

        “Here is a guide to using HTML commands: “

        Thank you, Kris!! And Annie! I tried to write out instructions for “rosross” but you know what happens, the system sees it as HTML commands and it vanishes. I got (not to put too fine a point upon it) completely famischt and all mica schist, too. For this I didn’t go to college. Well, not for anything, actually, except Varsity drag. Stay after school, learn how it goes…

        Your’s is the better answer, that page will also show him how to use “blockquote” and “bold” and other features of the system. Thanks, I felt like I was leaving him in the lurch.

      • Mooser
        February 3, 2016, 4:32 pm

        “So an atheistic Jew is a member of a theistic religion?”

        Do you think Jews are under some kind of obligation to announce to the congregation they are an atheist? We can fake belief as well, or better, than any other persuasion. Heck, with Judaism, you get a million opportunities to fake belief, if you need to, since there’s so much ritual..

        Besides, didn’t you ever hear the story of Graham Kerr and the 11 crab balls? Sometimes there are some of us “that just don’t know”! Same as anybody else.
        Hell, I thought I was an atheist until the big midsummer thunderstorm in 2000 here.

      • biggerjake
        February 4, 2016, 5:43 pm

        So all of this conversation about “Who’s a Jew?” , Jewish atheists, non-practicing Jews brings out a very important point:

        If we can’t even decide who is a Jew, why do we need a Jewish State?

        Why isn’t there just one state of Palestine with equal rights for everyone?

      • RoHa
        February 5, 2016, 6:03 am

        “If we can’t even decide who is a Jew, why do we need a Jewish State?”

        Just in case.

        It might turn out that someone, somewhere, (Mooser, perhaps?) actually is a Jew.

        If that happens, then we’ve got a nice, shiny, new Jewish state all ready for him.

      • Mooser
        February 5, 2016, 4:53 pm

        “If that happens, then we’ve got a nice, shiny, new Jewish state all ready for him.”

        Oy Gevalt I can’t afford the property taxes on an entire state. You’ll ruin me! I’ll trade the entire thing for a 5-bedroom custom-built colonial in Great Neck, and a couple of gilt-edged annuities. Oh, and a Cadillac and fur coat for my wife, Froomah Moosette.

    • rosross
      February 1, 2016, 8:14 pm

      Yes, good post. Many of us have ancestors who were members of Judaism but who dropped the religion, were no longer Jewish, and did not hand on the destructive combination of elitism/victimhood.

      Judaism is a religion. There are no atheist or secular Jews. It is impossible to put atheist or secular before the name of a religion and those who label themselves as Jewish, Christian, Muslim etc., and do not practice are simply lapsed. They cannot be secular, they are lapsed.

      Those who really dropped the religion like my ancestors were no longer Jewish and neither are any of their descendants, unless some converted.

      • Mooser
        February 3, 2016, 6:12 pm

        “Judaism is a religion. There are no atheist or secular Jews.”

        How do you know? All kinds of people feign belief, in all kinds of things, for all kinds of reasons.
        Religious faith can also be variable or transitory. Hare Krishna today, IDF goon tomorrow, (okay, rather improbable)you know what I’m sayin?

      • Sibiriak
        February 3, 2016, 8:58 pm

        rosross: There are no atheist or secular Jews.

        —————-

        You’re free, of course, to create your own definition of what a Jew is and then put forth tautologies based on it.

        But one else is forced to adopt your definitions.

        And your free to try to convince secular Jews that they are not Jews. Good luck.

        Example:
        link to dailymail.co.uk

      • echinococcus
        February 4, 2016, 4:17 am

        Sibiriak,

        And your free to try to convince secular Jews that they are not Jews. Good luck.

        Convincing the delusional is not a job for sane people.
        This is an objective fact, in the absence of a common culture, origin etc.
        If, on the other hand, you had been defending the existence of the Zionist tribe or even the Zionist religion you would have been 100% correct.

      • Mooser
        February 4, 2016, 3:38 pm

        “And your free to try to convince secular Jews that they are not Jews.”

        And while he is at it, he may want to convince other Jews (remember them?) who consider them Jews, and, oh yeah, all the non-Jews who consider atheist or secular Jews, well, consider them Jews.

        There is simply no telling whether or how much a person believes, or for that matter, disbelieves in God. People also prevaricate, and are mendacious. Or honestly can’t answer the question. Are you ready to evaluate their answer? Any distinctions made on that basis are meaningless. I don’t know, in addition, why you feel that distinction (between Jews, secular Jews, and atheist Jews) needs to be made, could be made, or would yield, if made (by whom?) positive results for the trouble..

  7. traintosiberia
    January 31, 2016, 11:21 pm

    Does it include the US ambassador also known as ” Jew Boy”?

  8. talknic
    February 1, 2016, 7:20 am

    We are all Palestinians, we are all Indians, we are all African slaves, we are all Australian Aboriginals, we are all Armenian, the list goes on forever

    • rosross
      February 1, 2016, 9:42 pm

      One could take it to mean the reality that we are all members of humanity and deserving of the same consideration.

      The biggest problem with the ‘list’ is that it puts the focus on the so-called ‘victims’ which perpetrates victimhood.

      All of us are descended from colonisers and colonists since all of us came out of Africa as Homo Sapiens 200,000 years ago.

      All of us are descended from people who have been persecuted for race, religion, culture, nationality since all of them have been persecuted. Some religions in fact did not survive the persecution.

      All of us are descended from people who persecuted.

      No suffering is greater for any group, race, religion, culture, nationality – suffering is suffering.

      And, having said that, one presumes if we ‘inherit’ cellular memory of our ancestors suffering then we also inherit the strength, resilience, courage, grace, determination and wisdom that the experience provided.

      Suffering is wasted in victimhood. A healthy human being grows, learns, heals and moves on from any suffering. Ditto for a healthy culture, religion, nation.

  9. MaxNarr
    February 1, 2016, 3:13 pm

    Up there with one of the most offensive articles I have read on this website. Simply a concerted effort to downplay the holocaust. Against the comments policy and against basic morality.

    • Mooser
      February 1, 2016, 4:33 pm

      “Against the comments policy and against basic morality.”

      And we know what a strict interpretation of “basic morality” you’ve got “MaxNarr”.

      The present changes the past, “MaxNarr”. You worried about how the Jewish past is perceived? Worry about the present, and the past will take care of itself.

      • MaxNarr
        February 2, 2016, 1:30 am

        No Mooser, the discourse on this website concerning Holocaust memorials is not only morally wrong. It’s plain terrifying.

      • talknic
        February 2, 2016, 6:38 am

        @ MaxNarr ” the discourse on this website concerning Holocaust memorials is not only morally wrong. It’s plain terrifying”

        But using the Holocaust to justify the Zionist Federation’s Greater Israel Ponzi scheme is morally right, right?

      • YoniFalic
        February 2, 2016, 6:58 am

        A Holocaust memorial is an obscenity if it fails to shout that after Auschwitz nothing is more evil than to found a state (like Israel) in post-Auschwitz genocide.

        A Holocaust memorial that does not address the context of the Holocaust is vile propaganda that teaches us nothing about preventing similar genocides in the future.

      • eljay
        February 2, 2016, 7:16 am

        || MaxNarr: … the discourse on this website concerning Holocaust memorials is not only morally wrong. It’s plain terrifying. ||

        A hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist expresses concern about morality even as he continues to justify and defend his / collective’s past and on-going (war) crimes.

        You, sir, are funny like a clown! :-P

      • Mooser
        February 2, 2016, 10:46 am

        “No Mooser, the discourse on this website concerning Holocaust memorials is not only morally wrong. It’s plain terrifying.”

        You LOVE IT, “MaxNarr” . Nothing else satisfies your self-hatred, nothing else titillates you as much. You’re not ‘terrified’.

        Hell, “MaxNarr”, don’t try to lie to another Jew- you’re on the edge of an orgiastic experience all the time you are here.
        You couldn’t leave if you wanted to

      • talknic
        February 2, 2016, 10:04 pm

        eljay “You, sir, are funny like a clown! “

        No. Clowns ought make one think or laugh, not puke

    • Keith
      February 1, 2016, 7:27 pm

      MAXNARR- “Up there with one of the most offensive articles I have read on this website. Simply a concerted effort to downplay the holocaust. Against the comments policy and against basic morality.”

      From “The Holocaust Industry”- “Holocaust awareness,” the respected Israeli writer Boas Evron observes, is actually “an official, propagandistic indoctrination, a churning out of slogans and a false view of the world, the real aim of which is not at all the understanding of the past, but a manipulation of the present.” In and of itself, the Nazi holocaust does not serve any particular political agenda. It can just as easily motivate dissent from as support for Israeli policy. Refracted through an ideological prism, however, “the memory of the Nazi extermination” came to serve – in Evron’s words – “as a powerful tool in the hands of the Israeli leadership and Jews abroad.” The Nazi holocaust became The Holocaust.

      Two central dogmas underpin the Holocaust framework: (1) The Holocaust marks a categorically unique historical event; (2) The Holocaust marks the climax of an irrational, eternal Gentile hatred of Jews. Neither of these dogmas figured at all in public discourse before the June 1967 war; and, although they became the centerpieces of Holocaust literature, neither figures at all in genuine scholarship on the Nazi holocaust. On the other hand, both dogmas draw on important strands in Judaism and Zionism.

      In the aftermath of World War II, the Nazi holocaust was not cast as a uniquely Jewish – let alone historically unique – event. Organized American Jewry in particular was at pains to place it in a universalist context. After the June war, however, the Nazi Final Solution was radically transformed.” (p41, 42, “The Holocaust Industry,” Norman Finkelstein)

      As Orwell stated in “1984,” “Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.” This ongoing and increasing emphasis on the Holocaust is the manifestation of an extremely powerful Jewish Zionism attempting to construct a social narrative conducive to Zionist power-seeking. Your taking umbrage at Marc Ellis thoughtful observations mark you as a defender of the faith of the Holocaust religion which underpins Zionism and Israel. A propagandist.

      • Mooser
        February 2, 2016, 12:03 pm

        “As Orwell stated in “1984,” “Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.”

        He stole that from me!

      • biggerjake
        February 4, 2016, 5:21 pm

        Kaching! You nailed it my man.

    • rosross
      February 1, 2016, 8:49 pm

      Since the Jewish experience of holocaust has been overplayed in the name of Zionism, the only way to achieve balance will be to ‘downplay’ by seeing all experiences of holocaust as equal. Which of course they are.

    • eljay
      February 2, 2016, 7:18 am

      || MaxNarr: Up there with one of the most offensive articles I have read on this website. Simply a concerted effort to downplay the holocaust. Against the comments policy and against basic morality. ||

      It’s “against basic morality” says the hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist who:
      – advocates Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine; and
      – justifies and defends the past and on-going (war) crimes committed by him and/or his co-collectivists.

      Do they pay you to be a buffoon, or do you do it for free?

      • Theo
        February 2, 2016, 10:30 am

        Not free, they get paid for it.
        The IDF has a special unit that reads blogs, watches YouTube and Wikipedia, and when there is anything that is depremental to that only democratic state in the ME, they file complaint and have information changed or removed.
        So if suddenly you do not find something in YouTube or Wikipedia changed the information, send a nice thank you letter to Tel Aviv.

      • Mooser
        February 2, 2016, 12:07 pm

        “Do they pay you to be a buffoon, or do you do it for free?”

        “eljay” he takes me in every time, too. He’s a parody-Zionist troll. No real Zionist would make themselves look like they stepped right out of the Protocols, and rhetorically embody every antisemitic trope. If they could help it.

      • rosross
        February 2, 2016, 5:36 pm

        Wikipedia is not accepted by any respectable university in the world as a source so it is best avoided. At best it is basic information and at worst it is pure propaganda. None of it is reliable.

        YouTube is no doubt much the same.

  10. Keith
    February 1, 2016, 8:00 pm

    MARC ELLIS- “To internationalize Holocaust remembrance, it must cease being Jewish in time and place.”

    Good luck on that! Please keep in mind that Holocaust remembrance was established in 2005 in response to Jewish Zionist power in order to provide ideological justification for Israeli actions and Zionist power-seeking. To universalize the Holocaust would undercut Zionism, the exact opposite of the intended effect. Additionally, narrowly focussing on the Holocaust tends to diminish knowledge of Western imperial mass-murder, something which the imperialists find attractive. Five-hundred years of Western war mongering gets set aside to focus on the Nazis and the Jews. In effect, a form of holocaust denial for those not Jews. Furthermore, an extended discussion on Western imperial barbarity is hardly something which would be allowed, much less encouraged. No, I am afraid that the one real lesson of the Holocaust is that reality can be shaped and shamelessly exploited to justify the goals and objectives of the elites, who appear to have zero empathy for those they abuse. Mass-murder has been going on for millennia and appears likely to continue in the foreseeable future. It is what wars and empire are all about.

  11. Theo
    February 2, 2016, 10:21 am

    Froggy

    Thank you for your great comment, you must have spent a lot of time for this precise information. For years I fight a loosing battle trying to let the readers know and accept, here and in other blogs, that in those concentration camps not only jews, but at least as many other people were murdered, gassed, worked and starved to death.

    In Germany every single year on Jan. 27th there is a great memorial on the liberation of Auschwitz, 100% dominated by the jewish suffering and jewish memories, jewish speakers imported from Israel or the USA. Not a word about any other victims. Gypsies were also killed in great numbers, just for being gypsies, and they try to get recoignation for years, however they do not have the backing like the Jewish World Congress, or similar zionist organisations.
    It would be great to honor ALL victims of that crazy regime, there are many from each country occupied by the german army.

  12. rosross
    February 2, 2016, 10:40 pm

    @Froggy,

    An excellent and comprehensive post. Many people also overlook, as Zionism wishes them to do, that many Jews have lived safely around the world for many centuries and their descendants still do.

    My Jewish ancestors emigrated from London in the mid 1800’s and none of my relatives were threatened during the time of Hitler. I have traced the family back to London in the late 18th century, where it is believed they came from Holland, Germany, Ukraine? Pick a country.

    Jews in the UK were also not under threat during the time of Hitler although if his invasion had succeeded, everyone would have been.

    You are right, the Zionist agenda in making the holocaust a tragedy purely for Judaism and therefore an ongoing threat for all Jews, is to justify the concept that Judaism alone, as a religion, requires its own State for the safety of its followers.

    Since most Jews do not live in Israel and never did and never will, one can presume that most Jews, even throughout the time of Hitler, did not feel a need for such a refuge.

    But more important, as you so eloquently suggest, is that this distortion of holocaust needs to be corrected for the sake of all who died and for the sake of human understanding.

    • rosross
      February 3, 2016, 12:11 am

      Actually, that was the late 17th century but missed the edit.

  13. OliviaU
    September 13, 2016, 1:31 pm

    Great post. Thanks for sharing.
    Olivia at link to ampronix.com

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