‘When I have the opportunity to do it, I will’: Likud lawmaker vows to demolish Al-Aqsa mosque

Israel/Palestine
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“If the day comes and I have the opportunity to lead the country, not to mention become the prime minister, I will build the temple on the Temple Mount,” rookie Likud lawmaker and Deputy Speaker of the Knesset Oren Hazan announced last Thursday night at a panel in Petach Tikvah, an Israeli city 20 kilometers east of Tel Aviv.

After the panel discussion organized by the group Students For The Temple Mount, we asked Hazan how he would demolish Al-Aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock in order to make way for a temple, he replied, “It would not be responsible at this point in time to tell you how we would do it, but I will say it clear and loud: When I have the opportunity to do it, I will.”

Embroiled in controversy, Hazan was recently demoted by Likud from participating in parliamentary committees for “purposefully avoiding votes” while the party holds a razor-thin majority in the Knesset. Since he secured a spot on the Likud list in a slot reserved for young members in 2015, Hazan has gained a reputation for boisterousness, sometimes bordering on outright belligerence. Soon after he took his Knesset seat, it was alleged that Hazan had hired prostitutes for his friends and used crystal meth during a stint as a casino manager in Bulgaria – charges he vehemently denied.

Hazan told the students that demolishing Islam’s third holiest site would not incite violent blowback or elicit significant international condemnation. “It was said that the world would get riled up – blowing up Arafat’s helicopters, blowing up the airport in Dahaniya [Gaza], and destroying the [Palestinian] government buildings, etc. In every case, people were afraid. And they folded, and nothing happened. I think it’s the same with the Temple Mount.”

But as Israeli politics blogger Yossi Gurvitz explained to us in a Tel Aviv restaurant Thursday afternoon, demolition of the Al-Aqsa compound and construction of a temple is part of a messianic prophecy that spawned the Temple Mount movements. “They are consciously preparing for the final war in which humanity will be divided into those who serve God and those who serve the devil – and those who serve the devil will be destroyed.”

In order to “liberate the Temple Mount,” Hazan asserted that public discourse must be changed. “It is not extreme. It is the basics. It is the foundation,” he told the audience, before warning that if Israel does not build a temple, “We may not even have Tel Aviv.”

Organized by Students For The Temple Mount, the panel also featured Jewish Home party activist and settler leader Shimon Riklin, Haaretz West Bank settlement correspondent Chaim Levinson, and Uri Zaki, former director of B’Tselem USA and chair of the Meretz Central Committee.

Held in a Petah Tikvah performance space lit with dim blue-lights and a DJ playing Justin Timberlake’s Rock Your Body, the audience of several dozen young people – both religious and secular – eagerly greeted and snapped selfies with Hazan when he arrived. The event began fashionably late, though without Uri Zaki, who got lost en route.

After screening a short video montage of Jews being escorted by police around the Temple Mount grounds, two students introduced themselves.

“We are from the hasbara [propaganda] team of Students For The Temple Mount. My name is Hadas. As you can see, I don’t have a strong connection to religion,” referring to her torn-at-the-knees jeans and leather jacket. After being invited to a lecture, she explained, “I learned that there is something else going on there – that there is blatant discrimination against Jews.”

Shimon Riklin called the status quo on the Temple Mount “apartheid” against Jews, and claimed that the Temple Mount in the only sacred place in the Jewish religion. Riklin said that all the stone walls surrounding the Temple Mount, including the Western Wall, are not holy to Judaism, and that Joseph’s Tomb and Rachel’s Tomb are not just profane, but also fake. “In the Land of Israel, there is one holy place – one. One! Everything else is just stories.”

Gurvitz describes the Jewish demand to pray on the Temple Mount as a red herring. “The point of the Temple Mount movement is not to pray on the Temple Mount because prayer is not important to the Temple Mount movement. The creation of the temple is supposed to abolish prayer. Prayer is a pale imitation of the spiritual experience you will feel once we again slaughter sheep and spread their blood and guts on the floor, for the glory of God,” says Gurvitz. “Originally – and by originally I mean before the destruction of the second temple in 70 AD – the main form of Jewish observance was sacrifice.”

According to Gurvitz, “No one [Jew] may be allowed to climb the Temple Mount: this is the official position of the vast majority of orthodox rabbis in Israel and in the world. A very small minority – I would say less than 5% – are saying Jews may be allowed to climb up the temple mount. This minority, however, is very politically strong in Israel, and it is deforming historical reality for its religious political needs.”

Hazan is one of several Knesset members to express support for the Temple Mount movements, many of whom hold much more prominent positions than him, though his promise to destroy Islamic holy sites and build a temple may be the most hawkish to date. Tens of legislators, primarily but not exclusively from right-wing parties, have expressed support for Jewish prayer rights on the Temple Mount; these include top government officials Culture Minister Miri Regev, Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked, Transportation Minister Yisrael Katz, former Public Security Minister Yitzhak Aharonovitch, and, for a time, Secretary General of Labor and Deputy Speaker of Knesset Hilik Bar. Some of these, including Agriculture Minister Uri Ariel and former Deputy Speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin, have gone so far as to publicly call to build the temple. Deputy Defense Minister Eli Ben Dahan has donated $12,000 of his own money for the temple’s construction.

Despite the fact that Hazan’s gaffes have embarrassed Likud, it is important for Netanyahu that Hazan completes his entire term, because if Hazan were to leave the Knesset, the seat he currently occupies would be taken up by top Temple Mount activist Yehuda Glick.

“This would rubber stamp Likud as the Temple Mount party,” Yossi Gurvitz said.

No Knesset member embodies the growing power of the Temple Mount movements more than Yehuda Glick, the American-born settler rabbi and self-described “human rights activist.” Since an assassination attempt on Glick in October 2014, his profile has risen dramatically, and the campaign to change the status quo on the Temple Mount and permit Jewish prayer there has gained momentum. Currently 31st on the Likud list, Glick is in the on-deck position to become an MK should a sitting legislator lose their seat for any reason.

Netanyahu has repeatedly stated that Israel would not alter the status quo on the Temple Mount. Doing so would be seen as an affront to Muslims around the world and could upset Israel’s diplomatic standing with its international allies and its relations with its neighbor to the East, Jordan, with shares control of the Al-Aqsa compound with Israel.

Despite the prime minister’s denials, statistics show that Israel has in fact been steadily shifting the status quo. In recent years, the number of days in which Israel restricted Palestinian access to the Al-Aqsa compound have increased exponentially, from 3 days in 2012 to 8 days in 2013, to 41 days in 2014 (statistics for 2015 have not yet been made available). Netanyahu has also shown that he is not above razing non-Jewish holy sites; Israel occasionally demolishes mosques in Palestinian communities, and during its 2014 assault on the Gaza Strip, it damaged or destroyed 278 mosques and two churches.

Hazan has clearly realized that under the current circumstances, his Knesset seat is secure, leaving him free to stake out positions on Temple Mount prayer that even the lobby’s more prominent advocates have hitherto refrained from vocalizing publicly. On Saturday night, Hazan signalled that he will not be constrained by coalition discipline during Knesset voting, telling Israel’s Meet the Press: “I will continue to tell the truth without any doubt, without any fear that they will fire me,” adding, “I am obligated only to the Jewish people, to the Land of Israel, to the Torah and to the truth.”

Not all of the Petach Tikvah panelists view the Temple Mount through the lens of the Hebrew Bible, however. Journalist Chaim Levinson, a secular Jew, said, “It’s meaningless, I don’t believe in anything holy, it’s a place that crazy people are willing to kill and be killed for. If it was up to me, they could open up a coffee shop there.”

Riklin took issue with Levinson’s worldview saying, “Levinson is a perfect example of loss of identity – a man who has forgotten what it means to be a Jew.”

“It’s because he needs to be Judaized!” shouted one man from the audience, who later approached the panelists and put a kippah (religious skullcap) on Levinson’s head.

Liberal zionist Meretz Party activist Uri Zaki arrived, apologizing and blaming being late on bad driving directions because he used “an application of goyim [derogatory term for non-Jewish people].” He admitted being hesitant to partake in the panel after fellow “activists from my [liberal-zionist] camp” showed him evidence that Students For The Temple Mount works with a radical group called “Returning to the Mount,” Lehava leader Bentzi Gopstein, and other followers of Rabbi Meir Kahane – the late leader of the banned Kach party which advocated instituting a theocratic government and ethnically cleansing Palestinians from Israel and all the territories it occupies. “You are going to [speak to] the group that is essentially the ‘pretty face’ of other groups,” he said.

An audience member interjected, “But not as a movement,” – confirming that Students For The Temple Mount cooperates with Gopstein in an unofficial capacity.

Zaki described Gopstein – who has called for torching of churches in Israel – as “disqualified,” and accused the student group of “granting legitimacy to Jewish terrorists.”

That’s when the wheels came off.

Zaki and Riklin began arguing, while a moderator attempted to calm the situation: “It’s important for me to say that we didn’t come here to determine that some people are illegitimate – not even settlers and hilltop youth.”

Incensed by Zaki’s criticism of Gopstein, Riklin stormed off the stage and left the event.

The audience became hostile to Zaki, and after a few minutes, he too walked offstage, leaving Hazan and Levinson as the only remaining panelists.

Steering the panel back on course, Levinson said that Zaki was attempting to explain that those like Hadas, the secular moderator who understood the Temple Mount issue as a Jewish rights issue, were being exploited by messianic fundamentalists in order to fulfill their apocalyptic prophecy.

“There are many people that are all about the Temple Mount, and all about democracy and rights,” Levinson said. “But they are cover for people for whom their thing for the Temple Mount is not democracy, but an apocalypse, and to knock out the mosques and start a religious war.”

“The things you are saying could be very, very true – there are those that use this platform to cover up for their deficits or dark sides,” replied Hazan, conceding Levinson’s point.

Gurvitz had earlier explained this dynamic, whereby religious dominionists ride into power on the coattails of secular nationalists, as the Kookian concept of the “Messiah’s Donkey,” developed by the first Ashkenazi chief rabbi of Palestine, Avraham Yitzhak HaCohen Kook. According to Kook, secular Zionists “will be acting as the servant of the messiah,” Gurvitz said. Unaware of their role as the donkey, the secular Zionists will toil to create the Jewish state and army and conquer the biblical land of Israel, which will usher in “the Kingdom of God” – a Jewish theocracy.

Hazan asserted, however, that the political opportunism of religious reactionaries was no reason to abandon the struggle for Jewish rights on the Temple Mount. “At this rate, if everyone is fearful of those that would be in proximity to them,” said Hazan, “there will be no ideology, there will be no action, there will be no contribution, and all be lost.”

Delineating the difference between his own aspirations and those of others who seek the destruction of the Al-Aqsa mosque, Hazan said he would not ban Muslims from the Temple Mount. “I’m not in favor of kicking the Muslims out of there, I’m in favor of freedom of religion for all religions on the Temple Mount,” he told the audience. “Why? For one reason: In order to prove that the reason [for objection to Jewish activity on the Temple Mount is] anti-Zionist, anti-Jewish, and hate for us, and not because of some religion.”

Given his ostensible support for freedom of access on the Temple Mount to Jews and non-Jews, we asked him if he opposed the 2011 Acceptance Committees Law, which allows villages throughout Israel to restrict admittance based on their own secret criteria. Historically, these powers have been used to restrict admittance to Palestinian citizens of Israel, Middle Eastern and African Jews, queer folks, single-parent families and other minorities. “Today I signed, I joined [the sponsors of] the bill that calls to cancel the Acceptance Committees,” he replied, earning himself congratulations and a friendly pat on the back from Levinson.

When we asked Hazan which US presidential candidate he sees as supportive to Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount, he replied, “Trump, I think? I don’t know why, but I trust him. People tell me a lot that Trump is the American version of Oren.”

About Dan Cohen

Dan Cohen is an independent journalist and filmmaker based in Palestine. He tweets at @dancohen3000.

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About David Sheen

David Sheen is an independent journalist and film maker who lives in Dimona. His website is http://www.davidsheen.com/.

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103 Responses

  1. rugal_b
    February 29, 2016, 10:00 am

    These people are hilariously villainous, it’s really a testament on how ridiculously unsophisticated and unintelligent Zionism is, for it to produce clowns like these in leadership positions. Seriously, how do these people expect to be taken seriously which such infantile threat of violence and destruction? So embarrassing…

    • Kay24
      February 29, 2016, 10:14 am

      What they lack in intelligence, they make up for it with viciousness.

      • rugal_b
        February 29, 2016, 10:26 am

        Nah I wouldn’t call these people vicious, that’s a too good of a compliment IMO. I think these people are wimps trying way too hard to sound badass.

      • Mooser
        February 29, 2016, 12:00 pm

        “Seriously, how do these people expect to be taken seriously which such infantile threat of violence and destruction?”

        Especially when all of Zionism’s past actions show clearly that Zionism just blusters a bit now and then, but never actually does anything violent. So why even pay attention to the threats. Leave Israel alone.

      • rugal_b
        February 29, 2016, 1:08 pm

        No Mooser, regardless if the threats are genuine or not, the person making them is absolutely a joke and cannot be taken seriously.

      • inbound39
        February 29, 2016, 5:08 pm

        Yes Kay….it is the viciousness that will be Israel’s undoing. The viciousness will lead to Israeli rejection globally. It is the viciousness that tells the World Israel is not house trained and cannot be trusted or relied upon and is a threat to all. Everyone will ask when Palestine falls who is next on Mad Israel’s list…..Syria,Jordan,Egypt?

      • Kay24
        February 29, 2016, 7:54 pm

        Inbound, I am sure they will love a piece of all three. They are fully capable of stealing, and pretending it was theirs because some God said so.

      • DaBakr
        February 29, 2016, 8:39 pm

        @ r, k

        “unintelligent” ….”lack in intelligence”

        hah ha ha.- lol,

        albert einstein: zionist. and so forth and so on…… now you can spew out some nasty response. unless of course if you mean euphemistically. lol

      • oldgeezer
        February 29, 2016, 8:42 pm

        @rugal

        There are graveyards filled with the remains of people who thought zionists wouldn’t be that evil, murderous and bat … crazy.

      • DaBakr
        February 29, 2016, 10:51 pm

        @gz

        while that may be true it could also be said that countless graveyards are filled with those who thought the zionist state would perish quickly, then less quickly, then maybe not so quickly, and then whenever.

        and yes. we have heard the minions telling us when it comes, its going to come down hard. we zionists will be punished but good for the evil wicked ways they so viciously employed to stay on the map. how we have employed methods so devious they previously were unheard of. how we will go down surely as one of the most expansionist empires of all time claiming swaths of the earth nobody could ever imagine they would conquer. alexander, xerxes.,khan, augustus, mao, d.b.g. that we possessed arrogance such that nobody had ever seen the likes of . gobbling up more and more land that , unbelievably, has no connection to them and their history whatsoever and how we invaded from europe and tricked a million jews to flee the safety and bliss of their we have heard that the minions believe we are marked with cain. we’re more diabolical then hitler yet we have the most unintelligent ideology on the earth. stupid, conniving, blatant tricksters, hasbarists and liars yet laid our plans-since before ’48- bare for everybody (who is truly intelligent , of course) to see. we have never offered any reasonable peace treaty that would satisfy demands and now , of course its far too late to negotiate a peace. and for this situation ,which is (as recent polls suggest) considered 95% our fault we will also suffer.

        and can you imagine the sound of knee slapping laughter , lip smacking smirks and i-told-so’s?
        if ever a nation in the entire history of the ‘modern’ world deserves to be cut down, punished and taught a lesson it is the zionist nation. absolutely no effort has ever been made to address the issues important to our minority citizens. surely most commenters here-the most disgusted, resentful and vengeful- have traveled all around here to witness the banality of evil right in the middle of gay pride in tel aviv. what an ingenious(yet stupid) clandestine plan all the ‘-washing’ must be.

        and then….of course what we lack in intelligence we more then make up for in viciousness, avaricious and snide behavior . there is just something so appalling about rank bigotry and racism that begs for the world at large-the world since the formation of the u.n. which has been known to live up to the most principled of ideals to slap down the most egregious violator of the laws of humanity and restore the region to the way it has always and should always have been. (since at least the arab/muslim conquest)

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 12:41 am

        Albert Einstein Zionist? Never did live there, did he? Did he take the Presidency he was offered?

      • Kay24
        March 1, 2016, 12:55 am

        Dabakr, so nice of you to lump Albert Einstein as one of those vicious zionists in Israel.

        Look at this letter he had cosigned warning the world about zionist racism in Israel:

        Einstein Letter Warning Of
        Zionist Facism In Israel
        Letter That Albert Einstein Sent to the New York Times
        1948, Protesting the Visit of Menachem Begin
        11-1-4

        “The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a “Leader State” is the goal.

        In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin’s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.”

        http://www.rense.com/general59/ein.htm

        You CANNOT compare A. Einstein to vicious men like Oren Hazan, Netanyahu, Bennet, even Ariel Sharon’s pathetic son, Gilad Sharon, who called for Gaza to be bombed.

        It was a lame try on your part.

      • rugal_b
        March 1, 2016, 1:57 am

        “There are graveyards filled with the remains of people who thought zionists wouldn’t be that evil, murderous and bat … crazy. – Oldgeezer

        LOL, I’m pretty sure graveyards will be filled with remains of people regardless of how the Zionists are perceived.

      • Kay24
        March 1, 2016, 7:22 am

        Talknic, two great minds thinking alike. Heh.

        Dabakr learns something new here every day!

      • eljay
        March 1, 2016, 8:02 am

        || DaBakr: @ r, k “unintelligent” ….”lack in intelligence” hah ha ha.- lol, albert einstein: zionist. and so forth and so on … ||

        For every intelligent Zio-supremacist, there are thousands of Zio-supremacist simpletons. The simpletons can perhaps be forgiven for not knowing better; the intelligent ones – the ones who advocate, commit, justify and/or support evil knowing it is evil – cannot and should not be forgiven.

        It’s hard to know for sure, but you strike me more as evil than fool.

      • oldgeezer
        March 1, 2016, 8:47 am

        @dohbaker

        Get off the crack.

      • talknic
        March 1, 2016, 9:49 am

        @ Kay24

        “Dabakr learns something new here every day!”

        Uh? :-)

      • DaBakr
        March 1, 2016, 9:49 pm

        @k @ej etc.

        true-i do often learn something new here regularly. but the einstein letter was not one of them since it is common knowledge to anyone with even basic higher education.

        what you anti-zionists really need to do instead of calling out zionist-jews as evil is start to categorize what you mean by evil, vicious zionist. since albert einstein is exceptionally then there needs to be a full accounting of the brilliant jews that were zionist back in the day are not like zionists now, who are all vicious nazi-like creatures. there are too many others that would make this list that it would then make your broad commentary about what zionists are like more sensible. in other words, zionists are ok if they made it clear in the 40s thru 60s that they were against any zionist they thought were far right extremists?

        and the fact remains that while it is absurd to compare einstein with oren it is true they were and are zionists. it pure speculation to imagine what einstein would have to say in this day and this age. you can guess , logically surmise but you can not know.

      • Sibiriak
        March 2, 2016, 5:07 am

        DaBakr: …and the fact remains that while it is absurd to compare einstein with oren it is true they were and are zionists..
        ——————

        That’s the problem with the word “Zionist’–since there has never been a single, undifferentiated Zionist ideology, the label lends itself to deceptive use.

        To label Einstein “Zionist’–or “anti-Zionist”– without any qualification or context is indeed to an act of deception; it obfuscates far more than it elucidates.

        I’m too short on time to pull up all the original sources, so I will rely on Wikipedia for convenience. The Wiki article gives a good overview of Einstein’s nuanced, evolving, and perhaps contradictory stance toward Zionism and Israel.
        ————————–

        [Wikipedia:] Einstein was a prominent supporter of both Labor Zionism and efforts to encourage Jewish-Arab cooperation.[16] He supported the creation of a Jewish national homeland in the British mandate of Palestine but was initially opposed to the idea of a Jewish state “with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power.”[6]:33 Einstein was a Cultural Zionist rather than a Political Zionist; he supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine but until 1948 conceived of this as a bi-national state with “continuously functioning, mixed, administrative, economic, and social organizations.

        * * * * *
        In a 1938 speech, “Our Debt to Zionism”, he said:

        “I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain—especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state. … If external necessity should after all compel us to assume this burden, let us bear it with tact and patience.”

        His attitudes were nuanced: In his testimony before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in January 1946 he stated that he was not in favour of the creation of a Jewish state,[24] while in a 1947 letter to Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru intended to persuade India to support the establishment of a Jewish state, Einstein stated that the Balfour Declaration’s proposal to establish a national home for Jews in Palestine “redresses the balance” of justice and history.[25] Einstein remained strongly supportive of unlimited Jewish immigration to Palestine.[26][27]

        The United Nations did divide the mandate, demarcating the borders of several new countries including the State of Israel, and the 1948 Arab-Israeli war broke out immediately. Einstein was one of the authors of an open letter to the New York Times in 1948 deeply criticizing Menachem Begin’s Herut (Freedom) Party for the Deir Yassin massacre (Einstein et al. 1948) likening it to “the Nazi and Fascist parties” and stated “The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party”.

        This letter has led some[who?] to believe Einstein to be anti-Zionist[citation needed], although Einstein’s motivation was a concern for the future of Israel if the Freedom Party continued to gain power.[citation needed]

        When President Harry Truman recognized Israel in May 1948, Einstein declared it “the fulfillment of our (Jewish) dreams.”[28] Einstein also supported vice president Henry Wallace’s Progressive Party during 1948 Presidential election which also advocate pro-Soviet and pro-Israel foreign policy. [emphasis added]

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein#The_formation_of_a_Jewish_state

      • Mooser
        March 2, 2016, 11:09 am

        “it is common knowledge to anyone with even basic higher education”

        Psst! “Dabacle”, look, I don’t want to make too much of a point of this, but the usual indication of “basic higher education” is writing in complete sentences, correct spelling, reasonable punctuation, and an understandable syntax.

        So it’s pretty easy to see just how high you got in school.

    • inbound39
      March 2, 2016, 6:24 pm

      rugal…..I cannot wait for Macedonia lodging a legal claim to Israel based on its historical ownership under Alexander the Great. Then David Cameron being confronted by Italy claiming large tracts of Great Britain as Italian territory….Londinium being one site. The Partition Plan was never legal in Palestine given the UN has no mandate or legitimacy to carve up existing nations.

  2. eljay
    February 29, 2016, 10:11 am

    “If the day comes and I have the opportunity to lead the country, not to mention become the prime minister, I will build the temple on the Temple Mount,” rookie Likud lawmaker and Deputy Speaker of the Knesset Oren Hazan announced last Thursday night at a panel in Petach Tikvah, an Israeli city 20 kilometers east of Tel Aviv.

    After the panel discussion organized by the group Students For The Temple Mount, we asked Hazan how he would demolish Al-Aqsa mosque and Dome of the Rock in order to make way for a temple, he replied, “It would not be responsible at this point in time to tell you how we would do it, but I will say it clear and loud: When I have the opportunity to do it, I will.”

    Looks like Oren “MaxNarr” Hazan finally got himself a job.

    • jon s
      March 1, 2016, 5:31 pm

      Kay24, Albert Einstein certainly was a humanist and a Zionist, who opposed Begin’s brand of Zionism.

      Note that Kay24 links to the Anti-Semitic rense.com.

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 7:02 pm

        “Albert Einstein certainly was a humanist and a Zionist, who opposed Begin’s brand of Zionism.”

        “Jon s” shows what an idiot Einstein was. If he was smart, the Israelis would have listened to him. They knew better than him.
        Too bad, too. Albert Einstein could have been the patron saint of Zionist ‘whataboutery’! The man who said: “It’s all relative”!

        Oh, BTW, “Jon s”, how many ‘life credits’ does the world owe Israel for Einstein’s “humanism”? Might as well put a figure on it.

        “Jon s” ever think of finding the reply button instead of running your commenting like the occupation?

      • talknic
        March 1, 2016, 9:20 pm

        @ jon s

        ” … the Anti-Semitic rense.com”

        Arguable… However, the information it gave in this instance isn’t Anti-semitic

        https://archive.org/stream/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948/Einstein_Letter_NYT_4_Dec_1948#page/n0/mode/2up

      • talknic
        March 1, 2016, 9:23 pm

        Mooser

        “… ever think of finding the reply button … ?”

        Tch tch tch. That’s simply not disruptive enough

      • DaBakr
        March 1, 2016, 9:31 pm

        @m

        some people may find you too ridiculous to consider an actual reply. your usual comment is a narcissistic , fecally infused joke, studded with asinine yiddish clichés and and inane spoonerisms. i, however , sometimes feel a reply might just be a small mercy lest you forget that you live on int the mw archives forever.

      • Kay24
        March 1, 2016, 9:41 pm

        Jon S. What you claim is laughable. Dismissing that letter because Rense.com put it out there does not mean it did not happen. This is part of history. If you bothered to look at the website, you will see that Rense has NOT given it’s opinion, written an article, or made any “anti -semitic” remarks.
        It has simply ONLY shown us that letter. Talknic has also given you a link supporting that fact.
        It is very hasbaric of you to try and dismiss that letter with claims of “anti-semitism” by Rense, but nothing you say can change the fact that Einstein did sign this letter warning the world about the evils of a fascist Israel.

        Here is another interesting link to an article by Jerusalem Post criticizing that LETTER, and that Einstein should not have signed it
        I guess JP must be anti semitic too.

        http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Terra-Incognita-When-Einstein-was-wrong-330710

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 9:59 pm

        “Kay24” he thinks “anti-semitism” is a magic word. A shibboleth.

        “Tch tch tch. That’s simply not disruptive enough”

        “Jon s” is convinced Mondo is his histrionic homeland, and he can settle in any where he goddam pleases. After all, this is “Mondoweiss”, not “Mondosmith” or “Mondojones” so “Jon s” feels he has has priority.

      • Kay24
        March 2, 2016, 12:00 am

        Mooser, I agree that Jon is simply trying that old worn out anti semitic card to dismiss what Rense has shown (that has been done by other websites too), he, true to hasbara style, is ignoring the subject and being critical of the website. I guess when you cannot defend the indefensible, you must resort to that. Hasbrats must be paid by the comment, because some here get their propaganda disproved in a few sentences, yet keep coming back for more!
        Most times, they vanish unable to respond to facts, but appear again to spew the Bull.

      • Mooser
        March 2, 2016, 11:24 am

        ” Hasbrats must be paid by the comment,”

        “Kay24”, they are being paid to supply ‘hits’, ‘UPVs’ and “sessions” to Mondo! End of story, and thank you very much, ziobots.
        I wonder if there’s a Yiddish expression which translates to “own-foot-shooter” or the like.

        Ziobots, they believe in magic (abra-cadabra anti-semitism historic homeland Jewish) words, and don’t understand how the internet works. I never ever thought we could ever raise such precious flowers, but there they are.

        (“Jon s” really, brother, I gotta know. Do you say a little brocha before you comment, and then tell yourself : ‘Today is my day! Today no one will point out my bald-faced prevarications and constant mendacity, and today’s the day they see what a nice, sincere person I am!’
        We’re supposed to be so goddam smart, and you aren’t able to pick up that maybe the shtik isn’t going over? Okay dude, whatever.)

  3. Kay24
    February 29, 2016, 10:12 am

    The zionists have absolutely no respect for other religions, since they think they are superior to all, and the rest of mankind is all dirt, and insignificant. They are desperate to steal, and claim, any land that is beyond the borders they were given, and will kill, demolish, and say anything to achieve that. What this deranged man says may not jive with what is being presented to the rest of the world by the present leaders, but judging from what they keep doing, they must wish they can demolish one of Islam’s holiest places of worship, and take over that entire region.

    I hope they are able to stand it when the Muslims world retaliates, and they find much more attacks against them. So far, history shows they can dish out but cannot take it.

    • hophmi
      February 29, 2016, 10:35 am

      LOL. In the Middle East, Israel is the place where freedom of religion is most respected. Nowhere else comes close. You’re either dead, a refugee, or in hiding in most of the Middle East if you’re a Jew or a Christian right now.

      • Kay24
        February 29, 2016, 12:00 pm

        So bad eh? I wonder why those 10,000 Jews refused to leave Iran when Nutty land offered them thousands of dollars to do so. They must love to have no freedom of religion, and last I heard they are not dead or refugees.

        Also it seems dear ole Israel is not the greatest democracy in the ME. According to the Economist:

        “There is one country, however, which shines as a beacon of freedom for the region. It’s commitment to the rule of law and the maintenance of the basic standards of human dignity serve as an example to its neighbors. No, not Israel, silly. Tiny Tunisia is The Economist’s shining city on the Arab hill.”

        http://hotair.com/archives/2014/07/08/new-rules-the-economists-only-democracy-in-the-arab-world-isnt-israel/

        It seems it is getting obvious Israel is not as “democratic” as it claims, and the world has seen by now the lack of commitment it has for the rule of law, and basic human dignity for the goyim.

        Only those in denial keep thinking it is still that beacon of shining light.

      • amigo
        February 29, 2016, 1:49 pm

        “Only those in denial keep thinking it is still that beacon of shining light.” Kay 24

        I prefer to call it , “The Deacon of declining light”.

      • Talkback
        February 29, 2016, 5:56 pm

        hophmi: “LOL. In the Middle East, Israel is the place where freedom of religion is most respected. Nowhere else comes close. You’re either dead, a refugee, or in hiding in most of the Middle East if you’re a Jew or a Christian right now.”

        ROFL. Are we talking about the “Israel” that keeps more than 5 million people expelled, because they aren’t Jewish? How many mosques has it allready destroyed since 1948? I lost counting after 1000.

      • chocopie
        February 29, 2016, 6:48 pm

        You mean Israel, land of religious co-existence, where ancient Muslim cemeteries are transformed into Jewish parking lots? Where infrastructure and utilities bypass Bedouin villages to service Jewish dog cemeteries instead? In Israel, freedom of religion means if you’re the right religion, you get freedom. And if you’re the wrong religion, you’re free to leave (unless you’re in Gaza, and then you’re locked in, and everyone is free to forget you).

      • talknic
        February 29, 2016, 9:42 pm

        @ hophmi ” In the Middle East, Israel is the place where freedom of religion is most respected.”

        By a Likud lawmaker and Deputy Speaker of the Knesset threatening to destroy a mosque.

        I understand your need. I really do. It must be terrifying having no ground under your feet, no substance to your arguments and beliefs firmly entrenched in & supported by propaganda that simply never adds up

      • oldgeezer
        March 1, 2016, 8:49 am

        @hophmi

        That’s a nice claim hophmi but it isn’t backed up by anything in reality. Israel is a million miles ahead of ISIS in this regard but so are a lot of other nations.

      • Froggy
        March 2, 2016, 11:47 am

        hophmi :: ‘LOL. In the Middle East, Israel is the place where freedom of religion is most respected. Nowhere else comes close. You’re either dead, a refugee, or in hiding in most of the Middle East if you’re a Jew or a Christian right now.

        You mean ‘freedom’, as when the Israelis deface, damage and burn Christian churches and Mosques, and spit on clergy.

        Ultra-Orthodox Spitting Attacks on Old City Clergymen Becoming Daily
        http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/ultra-orthodox-spitting-attacks-on-old-city-clergymen-becoming-daily-1.393669

        Being spat at remains part of life for Christians in Jerusalem
        http://warincontext.org/2011/11/05/being-spat-on-remains-part-of-life-for-christians-in-jerusalem/

        Israel’s not-so-stellar record on treatment of Christians
        http://972mag.com/israels-not-so-stellar-record-on-treatment-of-christians/43325/

        And this : According to the US State Department 2011 Report on International Religious Freedom, published in July 2012 –

        “Strict closures and curfews imposed by the Israeli government negatively affected residents’ ability to practice their religion at holy sites, including the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, as well as the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.”

        “Reports of Christian clergy, nuns, and other religious workers unable to secure residency or work permits increased during the year. Christian advocates claimed that the difficulty of obtaining permits gradually worsened in the last 10 years. Israeli authorities continued to limit visas for Arab Christian clergy serving in the West Bank or Jerusalem to single-entry visas, complicating clergy travel, particularly to areas under their pastoral authority outside the West Bank or Jerusalem. This disrupted their work and caused financial difficulties for their sponsoring religious organizations.”

        “Separately, Israel generally prohibited entry into Gaza by Arab Christian clergy, including bishops and other senior clergy to visit congregations or ministries under their pastoral authority.”

        “The [West Bank] separation barrier significantly impeded Bethlehem-area Christians from reaching the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem and made visits to Christian sites in Bethany and Bethlehem difficult for Palestinian Christians who live on the Jerusalem side of the barrier.”

        http://imeu.org/article/discrimination-hate-crimes-against-christian-palestinians-in-the-holy-land

        From the U.S. Department of State document:
        2011 Report on International Religious Freedom: Israel and the occupied territories – the occupied territories
        http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2011/nea/192889.htm

        Give it up, hophmi. Your Hasbarist BS may work on evangelicals and the prune juice drinkers in Boca, but the rest of us see through it.

    • jon s
      March 2, 2016, 4:10 am

      I didn’t dispute the authenticity of the letter to which Einstein added his signature. As I noted, it shows that Einstein opposed Begin’s brand of right-wing Zionism and regarded it as fascist.

      That letter can be found in numerous sources, I found it curious that of all those sources Kay24 chose the Anti-Semitic rense.com.

      • echinococcus
        March 2, 2016, 4:21 am

        Before weaseling out on “Begin’s brand of right-wing Zionism”, you may want to 1. bring definitive proof of support to any brand of Zionism, i.e. establishment of a racially conditioned state on other people’s land and 2. show why Mr Einstein should be considered any kind of authority in the matter.
        As for “finding curious”, put it in your head that only heavily indoctrinated people have any problem with “Anti-Semitic” sites. If documented, it’s good, so it does not call for unsupported snide remarks outside Zionistan.

      • Sibiriak
        March 2, 2016, 4:38 am

        jon s: That letter can be found in numerous sources, I found it curious that of all those sources Kay24 chose the Anti-Semitic rense.com

        ————

        Rense.com comes up first on the site list if you do a Google search for either Einstein Letter Zionism or Einstein Letter Anti-Zionism.

        That might have something to do with it. Or not.

      • Kay24
        March 2, 2016, 5:36 am

        Let me put an end to your curiosity. I do not link Rense normally because I do not get any info from there. I link a lot of Haaretz articles, because I follow it.

        I just happened to google this letter and because of it’s simple presentation linked it.
        I do not know much about Rense, although I have come across articles on and off.
        No big deal, and no links to anti-semitic websites.
        You can relax now.

        So what do you think about those illegal settlements?

      • talknic
        March 2, 2016, 6:46 am

        @ jon s “I found it curious that of all those sources Kay24 chose the Anti-Semitic rense.com”

        Why? It’s the first cab off the rank

        Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist

        Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism

        Einstein Letter Warning Of Zionist Facism in Israel

        Don’t you find it curious that Einstein was right?

      • gamal
        March 2, 2016, 8:25 am

        “Don’t you find it curious that Einstein was right?”

        Dear Talknic, may I intervene on behalf of my old friend Jon, whose argument can be summarized in the following silligism

        Rense Anti-Semitic

        Rense approvingly quotes Einstein

        Einstein Anti-Semitic,

        that’s how it usually works, bit of a hasbara own goal if you ask me.

        We were talking about Likud and the destruction of the Haram ( people should really stop calling it the temple mount) and bam Jon gives us Einstein is an anti-semite, returning to the topic lets remember from above

        ” and that Joseph’s Tomb and Rachel’s Tomb are not just profane, but also fake.”

        as if we didn’t know about the fakeness of these “Jewish” shrines so is the temple mount scam.

      • Keith
        March 2, 2016, 12:33 pm

        JON S- “…I found it curious that of all those sources Kay24 chose the Anti-Semitic rense.com.”

        I have heard Zionist Jews refer to rense.com as anti-Semitic. Other than the anti-Semitic label being applied by numerous Zionist Jews, what exactly is your reason for labeling rense.com as anti-Semitic? This is a serious question. Please defend your use of the label.

      • Sibiriak
        March 2, 2016, 1:37 pm

        Keith: …what exactly is your reason for labeling rense.com as anti-Semitic
        ————–

        If I read an article there, I judge it on its own merits.

        If your interested, the indictment against Rense can be found here:

        http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/rense-web-site-promotes.html

        With so many false and malicious “anti-Semitism” charges abounding, there certainly has to be a presumption of innocence. I don’t have time (or interest) to look into this case myself.

    • inbound39
      March 2, 2016, 5:05 pm

      Kay24 I totally agree with you. It is the Supremacist attitude that has the global community placing Israel on a par with 1939 Germany and its National Socialist Party. Whilst Israeli Zionists may have bought politicians Worldwide like Americas Republican Party and a few Dems and in Britain they have bought David Cameron et al…..the backlash is brewing.

      I see the following things as a possibility and very likely if Israel persists on its current path. Very shortly the World will slap sanctions on Israel. America will have little choice but to follow or be outcasts and isolated also. A One State Solution with full democratic rights to all will be imposed and a civil war will ensue with International forces used to squash the settlers. In the process Israel will be lost as a Jewish State and be renamed Palestine. A Two State Solution will be imposed in order to keep Arabs and Jews apart and avoid conflict,likely reimposition of Original Partition Plan thus allowing Gaza to reclaim all its original territory and join to the West Bank. Those Jews living within Palestine can become Palestinian citizens and remain.

      The Doomsday Option threatened by Zionists will result in Israel becoming a glasstop table with no survivors and the retaliation from the greater percentage of nations against Israel and the subsequent fall out in general against Jews will mean thousands of jews will lose their lives,Israel will cease to exist and the Jewish people will be more or less outcasts and an even smaller minority than they currently are. The Doomsday Option is plain suicide and will do more harm to Jews than anyone else. Tragically it spells out how sick Zionism is and how sick zionists are to be so deluded as to think this will all end in their favour. It will not and cannot. Owning politicians is one thing but the general populace can never be bought.

  4. a blah chick
    February 29, 2016, 10:30 am

    “It was said that the world would get riled up – blowing up Arafat’s helicopters, blowing up the airport in Dahaniya [Gaza], and destroying the [Palestinian] government buildings, etc. In every case, people were afraid. And they folded, and nothing happened. I think it’s the same with the Temple Mount.”

    I hate to say it but he makes a good point. The world has shown a lot of tolerance for Israelis predations. Would the Arab states risk war over Jerusalem? I use to believe they would, now I’m not so sure.

    Seth Frantzman had an interesting blog post up recently in which he said that most of the people clamoring for the temple wouldn’t even be allowed inside. Back in the day the heart of the complex was not open to the public but only to the priests and Levites. I wonder if the temple people know this.

    • echinococcus
      February 29, 2016, 11:52 am

      Good point? He’s absoffinglutely right. Not only the Masjid al Aqsa compound, even the extermination of Palestinians is not registering in the Zionist-occupied “West”.
      And please, Cohen and Sheen and the others, stop calling the place “Temple Mount”!

    • John O
      February 29, 2016, 12:30 pm

      Helicopters and government buildings can easily be replaced. Great cultural monuments cannot, and their destruction does get people riled up. One thinks of the destruction of Coventry Cathedral and the Dresden Frauenkirche, and the declaration of Rome as an open city to avoid cultural catastrophe, in WW2.

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 10:09 pm

        “and the declaration of Rome as an open city to avoid cultural catastrophe, in WW2.”

        Maybe my memory is faulty, but I seem to remember, long ago, something about Jerusalem being like that.

    • jon s
      March 2, 2016, 2:07 pm

      echinococcus,

      1. There are numerous quotes and anecdotes regarding Einstain’s Zionism:
      http://www.zionism-israel.com/Albert_Einstein/Albert_Einstein_zionism.htm

      2. It’s well known that after the death of our first president , Haim Weizmann, Prime Minister Ben Gurion offered Einstein the Presidency. Do you think that BG would have made the offer to a person whose Zionism was in doubt?

      3. Einstein willed his personal papers and archive to the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.
      http://www.albert-einstein.org/.index.html

      • echinococcus
        March 2, 2016, 2:16 pm

        1. Tainted source. Zionist. I have the same visceral reaction to that as you to a PFLP or Rensse link.
        2. Of course that Dovid Grün, tricky murderous bastard, would have done just that
        3. Maybe there is some quote that explicitly supports invading other people to establish a racial supremacist dictatorship over them. So what? That wouldn’t be the first mathematician who gets caught by that kind of nonsense.

      • Mooser
        March 2, 2016, 2:22 pm

        “Jons” if you are working your way towards justifying the use of an atomic bomb on Al Aqsa, you might want to go to your settlement blog.
        I think at some points the Mods may cut you off, before you get all the King’s Torah quotes and republished comments in.
        I get it, tho; Einstein, is Jewish, he’s a Zionist, and inventor of the atomic bomb. It’s just going to be difficult for others to accept our right to do this on that pretext.

        Or is there some other connection Einstein has to destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque. Would Einstein have been in favor of that? Cause it’s all relatives?

      • MHughes976
        March 3, 2016, 4:05 am

        Jon’s claims about Einstein can’t just be laughed off but there is some of the dreaded ‘complication’ in the matter. In 1921 an article about Einstein appeared in Judische Rundschau headed ‘Why I became a Zionist’ – it was somewhat typical that Einstein did not write this headline but allowed the journalist who had interviewed him to write it. But it set the tone for the way his remarks were taken by the public from then onward. During the years when partition was being discussed he consistently said that he would prefer ‘accommodation’ to partition, which I think meant one state with unlimited Jewish immigration rights. Partition was not, he informed the Anglo-American Commission led by Judge Joe Hutcheson, ‘according to his heart’ . A few years later – 1952, I think – he remarked to A.M. Lilienthal that he had never been a Zionist. It seems to be agreed that he said in private that had he become President of Israel he would have to say things that would not go down well, as Rivlin was later to do. And he certainly regarded Begin as a kind of Nazi, as we have noted.
        However, all that has to be set against the fact that he did some high-profile public work – a well known letter to Nehru and flattering statements, quoted above by Sibiriak, about Truman’s support for Israel – in the Israeli cause. Above all, he never made any public statement disclaiming Zionism, saying that he had ceased to support it once ‘accommodation’ had disappeared. It seems not to have occurred to him that he had an obligation, as a highly influential figure, to make in any event the statements which he would have made as President and which might have alerted the world to injustice and suffering before the ‘Exodus’ narrative gained its overwhelming popularity.
        That is to say that Einstein liked to have it both ways. That’s the complication. After his death the NY Times saw to it that the complication was forgotten. That is one of the themes of Fred Jerome’s book about Einstein that was reviewed here in 09. But Einstein himself had made it easy for them. He had let the Zionist label be pinned to him, did much to draw attention to it and never tore it off. Dislike of Begin at that time resembles fastidious dislike these days of the vulgar, violent Netanyahu – it is not by any means necessarily a repudiation of Zionism but a wish that the public face of Zionism were nicer, a salve to some consciences. We can’t deny Jon the use of Einstein’s name that Einstein did not prevent.

      • Mooser
        March 3, 2016, 3:17 pm

        “Jon’s claims about Einstein can’t just be laughed off”

        Really? They sure as f–k can. Okay, Einstein was a big Zionister! So f–kin what? Does that make it all right to constantly threaten AL Aqsa? Does it make one proton’s worth of difference in anything having to do with Israel?
        Are you saying we should entertain “Jon s” ridiculous and patently self-serving, soft-serving, diversions and endure his nauseous-making sanctimony? I don’t think so.

        Read a biography of Einstein. The man knew his relativities, but had a penchant for signing lots of political letters, he was known as an easy mark for that.

        Does it ever occur to you to question “jon s” motives in bringing this up? After all, he is completely disinterested.

    • jon s
      March 2, 2016, 2:41 pm

      Keith,
      I’m assuming that you’re not kidding, in asking why rense.com is Anti-Semitic, but I must ask you whether you’ve ever looked at it. Because if you have, you don’t have to be a Zionist Jew to see what I mean. It’s full of the most nauseating Anti -Semitic propaganda.
      Just one example :if you want to know what a fun place Auschwitz was…
      http://www.rense.com/lets_stop_with_the_auschwitz_lies.htm.html

      • talknic
        March 2, 2016, 5:33 pm

        Oooooops

        jon s is antisemitic.

        He provided a link to an article at Rense

      • RoHa
        March 2, 2016, 6:20 pm

        Now you have a chance to explain to me what no-one has succeeded in explaining so far. What makes that article anti-Semitic?

      • Mooser
        March 2, 2016, 9:44 pm

        “RoHa”, that fact that “Jon s” thinks he can do more for Zionism by skipping out of threads and starting a new thread on the same subject, tells me more about Zionism than any letter from Albert Einstein ever will.

        Wait a minute, maybe “Jon s” thinks Einstein proved that two objects can occupy the same space at the same time?

      • gamal
        March 2, 2016, 9:51 pm

        ” “Jon s” thinks Einstein proved that two objects can occupy the same space”

        No man in Jon s’ case it’s that two abjects, namely those of stupidity and dishonesty, can simultaneously occupy the same brain,

      • Mooser
        March 2, 2016, 10:18 pm

        ” namely those of stupidity and dishonesty”

        Gee, “gamal” is it possible that “Jon s” has latched on to this Albert Einstein thing because he is desperate to not discuss the destruction of Al Aqsa Mosque (May it never happen!) the building of the Trump Temple, and the extremist plan to kidnap house-pets for sacrifice?
        Of course it is! The thought of little blond curly-headed children running down suburban streets screaming tearfully: “Mommy, I think the frummers got Fluffy!” every time the cat goes missing for an hour is not a pleasant one.

        But that’s too tricky for any of us to see. I guess we’ll just have to talk about Albert Einstein. Dude didn’t wear sox.

      • Keith
        March 2, 2016, 10:38 pm

        JON S- “Just one example :if you want to know what a fun place Auschwitz was…”

        That one example is enough to convince me.

      • Mooser
        March 2, 2016, 10:38 pm

        “What makes that article anti-Semitic?”

        “Jon s” says it is! His Zionism qualifies him as a disinterested objective judge of anti-Semitism.

      • RoHa
        March 3, 2016, 4:27 am

        Mooser, admit it. You put that comma after the subject clause just to annoy me, didn’t you?

      • Mooser
        March 3, 2016, 3:34 pm

        “You put that comma after the subject clause just to annoy me, didn’t you?”

        I noticed it too late! I knew I would be taken to task. I looked at it and said to myself (there was no one else around but the cat) “Darn, the very thing “RoHa” mentioned the other day, the comma after the subject clause. And I just did it, dad burn it! I ain’t got no class, I ain’t got no principles! And I got no innocence, and, and…I can’t even think of a word that rhymes!”

        On the other hand, every once in a while Life imitates Mooser. Je suis Generic!

    • gamal
      March 2, 2016, 6:51 pm

      “Would the Arab states risk war over Jerusalem? I use to believe they would, now I’m not so sure.”abc

      I reckon the immediate effect would be that one whole heap of Arab states would fall and erupt, with all the bragging about Israel’s unparalleled might she has never faced concerted Arab resistance the War of attrition showed Israels inability to wage protracted war and the 2nd Intifada and Southern Lebanon both showed how vulnerable Israel is to popular Arab resistance as the states fall Israeli hubris is going to be short lived the main factor restraining the Arab masses have been the Arab states it shows how grave are Israels problems (and the US’s) that they are embarking on this crazy scheme, many Arabs have decided that they will embrace division because first the Arab enemies the allies of various rapacious foreign forces must be defeated, then the Hegemon and the regional superpower, say a century more of war and slaughter, something like that from look of things.

      Muammar Gadaffi said for the Arabs this is a heroic age of trials and resistance, its just going to be ruinous all round.

      • jon s
        March 3, 2016, 3:30 am

        Keith,
        Nice to see a voice of sanity.

  5. Ossinev
    February 29, 2016, 2:31 pm

    IMHO taking over/demolishing the Al Asqa mosque/denying acces to Muslims will = thousand fold multiplication of ISIS type lone wolf attacks on Jews , Israeli Zionist or otherwise , throughout the world. It is not a question of Jordan or the other Arab states ” objecting ” and even breaking off any ties which they have with Israel. All that will be of no consequence. Even the Yahoo and some of his less unhinged cohorts realize what the real scenario will be and are desperately trying to avert it while trying to keep the fruitcake extremists in their wobbly coalition on side.

    What is truly worrying is that because the ” centre ” and ” left ” in Israeli politics have imploded under the Yahoo`s “watch” the batshit crazy groups and individuals which he depends upon to stay in power are creeping ever closer to REAL power in the country = it is not inconceivable that in the very near future they will have access to the nuclear trigger. The older generation of Israeli military commanders who used to have a moderating and restraining role appears to have given up the fight and/or have been replaced by an entirely new breed of settler inspired or settler spawned extremists.

    Forget Iran and the ” Mullahs ” getting access to nuclear weapons. The West including the ever obliging Israel first USA may wake up too late to the reality of nuclear weapons under the control of 21st century Masadists.

    • Mooser
      February 29, 2016, 5:53 pm

      “under the control of 21st century Masadists.”

      Masadadammerung here we come!

  6. HarryLaw
    February 29, 2016, 2:56 pm

    Unfortunately it seems the Israelis could get away with any crime without the ‘west’ doing anything about it [they may say it is ‘unfortunate’ or some other meaningless gesture]. Even the Arab world could care less, Saudi Arabia has just received a senior Israeli delegation “Israeli channel 10 quoted Saudi officials as saying during the meetings that they are not interested in solving the Palestinian cause. However they want the Zionist entity to stand by Saudi against Iran”. The Palestinians can only rely on the backing of the ‘arc of resistance’ Iran, Iraq, Syria and Hezbollah. Unfortunately the Palestinian Authority still cling to the US/Saudi /Israel way forward, which means they will continue be dispossessed. The PA are backing the wrong horse. http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=257904&cid=23&fromval=1&frid=23&seccatid=18&s1=1

  7. ahadhaadam
    February 29, 2016, 5:40 pm

    Israel’s government cannot and will not officially destroy Al Aqsa. The bigger risk is the mainstreaming of this messianic lunacy, which will eventually allow a fringe group to carry out or attempt to destroy Al Aqsa. Such an act will formally turn what has been so far a classic colonial conflict into a centuries long war between Judaism and Islam with repercussions that cannot be underestimated. Much like Christians viewed Jews as killers of Christ, Jews will be known in Islam as those who destroyed Al Aqsa. And it is sad because Muslim-Jews relations were generally good in Muslim majority lands before Zionism.

    To make clear, I don’t think the destruction of Al Aqsa is a likely scenario but people have to understand that Israel is like a volcano – even when it is quiet on the surface, there is always something going on underneath which sets the stage for the next eruption. It cannot be a peaceful state as long as Jewish supremacy is the ruling ideology. Never has been, never will be.

  8. Herchel
    February 29, 2016, 5:43 pm

    What other group of people would start WW3 because thier “3rd holiest site” was demolished?

    • Talkback
      February 29, 2016, 5:58 pm

      What other group of people would demolish someone elses 3rd holiest site to start WW3?

    • Mooser
      February 29, 2016, 7:03 pm

      “What other group of people would start WW3 because thier “3rd holiest site” was demolished?”

      Exactly, “Herchel”! The Temples (First and Second) were the premero uno ultimo Jewish Holy Sites, not some third rank subdivision.

    • eljay
      February 29, 2016, 9:08 pm

      || Herchel: What other group of people would start WW3 because thier “3rd holiest site” was demolished? ||

      Dunno. What other group of people would annihilate 100% of Amalekites – slaughter every last one of them, wipe them off the map and push them into the sea – because a “god” told them to?

      Anyway, Muslims didn’t start WW1 or WW2, so maybe it’s their turn to start WW3.

      • DaBakr
        March 1, 2016, 12:18 am

        @ej

        1- yes.it is definitely their turn. however-it is not in the spirit of islam to ever start a war. only finish.

        2-there are also many people here who believe zionists had much to do with starting ww1 and ww2 which fits in neatly into the concept of muslims wreaking vengeance upon israel.

        3-yeah. the egyptians, assyrians, persians and other nations did the whole ‘annihilation’ thing without a stupid ‘ol god to tell them what to do. leave it to those crafty jews to build in the ‘g-d excuse’. what was wrong with annihilation after a simple omen, a crow, a red cow, a frog?

        4- a bit i[mo]ronic that your citing ‘history’ of a people that are only referred to in a book that some “god” wrote for ‘his’ people. get your ideology straight. either the bible is bs and the jews bs with it or it isn’t bs. . really. dude. or maybe you want an edited edition of the bible where only the stories that paint jews as evil incarnate to be printed. that sounds like its right up your alley. isn’t that exactly what those racist americans do to the quran….picking out the most violent things the prophet-pbuh- wrote. what intellectual prowess for one accusing zionists of such stupidity.

      • talknic
        March 1, 2016, 9:54 am

        @ DaBakr March 1, 2016, 12:18 am http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/when-i-have-the-opportunity-to-do-it-i-will-likud-lawmaker-vows-to-demolish-al-aqsa-mosque/#comment-827733

        Whatever drivel you need to post pal. Paid by the word is seems, definitely not for making sense or having a cohesive argument

      • eljay
        March 1, 2016, 11:33 am

        || @aar: @ej 1- yes.it is definitely their turn. however-it is not in the spirit of islam to ever start a war. only finish. … ||

        I hear ya – it’s unfortunate that Islam is always left to clean up other people’s messes.

        || … there are also many people here who believe zionists had much to do with starting ww1 and ww2 which fits in neatly into the concept of muslims wreaking vengeance upon israel. … ||

        If you say so.

        || … the egyptians, assyrians, persians and other nations did the whole ‘annihilation’ thing … ||

        But they didn’t annihilate the Amalekites.

        || … a bit i[mo]ronic that your citing ‘history’ of a people that are only referred to in a book that some “god” wrote for ‘his’ people. get your ideology straight. either the bible is bs and the jews bs with it or it isn’t bs. … ||

        You Zio-supremacists use Biblical “history” to justify your “Jewish State” project and your past and on-going (war) crimes. As soon as you stop doing that and let me know it’s all bunk, I’ll stop citing it. Otherwise, man up and own it. Make your King (Bibi) and your Captain (Israel) proud.

        || … or maybe you want an edited edition of the bible where only the stories that paint jews as evil incarnate to be printed. that sounds like its right up your alley. … ||

        That just makes you sound like a tool. The Bible as it stands is full of hatefulness and immorality – there’s no need for a special edition.

        || … isn’t that exactly what those racist americans do to the quran….picking out the most violent things the prophet-pbuh- wrote. ||

        Nope, it’s not remotely the same thing. Racist Americans pick out violent things from the Qur’an to justify hatred and violence against all Muslims. (And some people pick out violent stuff from the Bible to justify hatred and violence against all Jews.)

        I rightly despise the acts of injustice and immorality committed by Islamofascists (and by Zio-supremacists), but I don’t want hatred and violence against all Muslims (or all Jews) – I want justice, accountability and equality from and for all Muslims (and all Jews).

        (Same applies to all non-Muslims and non-Jews.)

        BTW, it’s cute that you wrote “pbuh”. :-)

      • DaBakr
        March 1, 2016, 9:21 pm

        @ej

        “cute”. it is just a courtesy.

      • eljay
        March 2, 2016, 7:12 am

        || @aBk: @ej “cute”. it is just a courtesy. ||

        If I were Muslim, I might have considered it a courtesy…although, knowing the source, it’s more likely I would have considered it an obvious attempt at ingratiation.

        But I’m not Muslim – and I’m certain you know that – so it was just cute.

    • talknic
      February 29, 2016, 9:31 pm

      @ Herchel February 29, 2016, 5:43 pm

      “What other group of people would start WW3 because thier “3rd holiest site” was demolished?”

      Uh? A reaction to the idiotic actions of the demolishers would be a consequence, not the start.

      What group of people would destroy a holy site knowing it might start WW3?

    • Kay24
      March 1, 2016, 1:00 am

      What other group of people would send precision bombs into civilian structures, including UN shelters, killing over 2000 people, mostly women and children?

      • rugal_b
        March 1, 2016, 2:03 am

        “What other group of people would send precision bombs into civilian structures, including UN shelters, killing over 2000 people, mostly women and children?” – Kay24

        The US, UK, Australia, NATO member states, Saudi Arabia, France…pretty much all white capitalist countries. And please recall that it was only a few gens ago that the US dropped two atomic bombs on civilians, mostly women and children and old folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing in excess of 2 million and permanently damaging the bloodlines of millions more through the radioactive fallout.

      • Sibiriak
        March 1, 2016, 2:42 am

        Kay24 : What other group of people would send precision bombs into civilian structures…
        —————-

        The Americans, the Saudis, the Russians ET AL. wouldn’t….or would they?

        With US help, Saudi Arabia is obliterating Yemen

        […] Asiri, the coalition spokesman, brushed off criticism that the coalition has targeted civilian infrastructure. “Please don’t be too naive, we are in a war,” he said. “We are talking about military operations, we are not talking about a soccer game.”

        http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-11-30/us-help-saudi-arabia-obliterating-yemen

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 11:00 am

        “And please recall that it was only a few gens ago that the US dropped two atomic bombs on civilians, mostly women and children and old folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing in excess of 2 million and permanently damaging the bloodlines of millions more through the radioactive fallout.” ‘rugal b”- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/when-i-have-the-opportunity-to-do-it-i-will-likud-lawmaker-vows-to-demolish-al-aqsa-mosque/#comment-162641

        Lotta concern for those dead and “bloodline” damaged folks! Oh, but wait, “progressive Marxist” dialectic demands a different standard when it’s Zionists or Israel doing the killing:

        “LOL, I’m pretty sure graveyards will be filled with remains of people regardless of how the Zionists are perceived.” “rugal b”- See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/recent-comments/#sthash.kRYUWwjB.dpuf

        Who needs his non-existent archive? This is all in the same thread! Who the hell does he think he’s kidding? For everything, there is a season, spin, spin, spin.

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 11:12 am

        “The US, UK, Australia, NATO member states, Saudi Arabia, France…pretty much all white capitalist countries.”

        “rugal b” You have been trying for months now to elicit or incite expressions of racism in response to your ridiculous statements. It’s really obvious, and nobody is biting.

        (Actually, I’m getting quite a bit natchez from the fact that people here are way too smart to respond in kind.)

      • Kay24
        March 1, 2016, 9:07 pm

        So Rugal and Sibi, you are equating Israel’s horrible crimes to that of the US. I have never condoned what the US has done, waging wars, drones, etc. But, two wrongs do not make a right, and Israel has this on going OCCUPATION, and has been condemned by the entire world, for it’s deliberate crimes against humanity, that has BEEN GOING ON FOR OVER SIXTY YEARS, and it is obvious it has no desire to end. The US nor other nations you have mentioned have civilians blockaded and oppressed today.

        I would appreciate it if you addressed the consistent land thefts and the continuous building of illegal settlements that even Israel’s sugar daddy, condemns. It seems that is okay by Israel’s apologists.

      • Sibiriak
        March 1, 2016, 11:13 pm

        Kay24 : What other group of people would send precision bombs into civilian structures…. [emphasis added]

        * * * * *
        two wrongs do not make a right

        ——————

        I never suggested they did.

        The question is: why didn’t you just focus on Israel’s wrongs. Why did you feel the need to falsely compare Zionist actions to the actions of other groups of people?

        Why didn’t you just write: “Israel sends precision bombs into civilian structures… ETC.” and discuss/condemn that?

        Why did you need to falsely suggest that no other group of people would do that?

        How does that promoting that falsehood help the anti-Zionist cause?

      • Kay24
        March 2, 2016, 12:30 pm

        Sibiriak, you really should read the comments above mine and you might see the light.

        Let me help you here.
        I simply kept the same theme going:

        “Herchel February 29, 2016, 5:43 pm
        What other group of people would start WW3 because thier “3rd holiest site” was demolished?

        Nothing to get outraged about.

      • Sibiriak
        March 2, 2016, 12:42 pm

        kay24: I simply kept the same theme going
        —————

        I noticed. Not sure why you’d want to keep bigotry going… but whatever….

      • Kay24
        March 2, 2016, 9:01 pm

        Sibi stop the BS. There is no bigotry in asking about the crimes of an apartheid nation, and the killing of civilians by their military. The anti-semitic card does not play well here, in case you did not notice, and it will never stop the commenters from criticizing the occupation and land grabs by the zionists.

      • Sibiriak
        March 2, 2016, 11:57 pm

        kay24: Sibi stop the BS. There is no bigotry in asking about the crimes of an apartheid nation…

        Nice try. Of course there is no bigotry in asking about apartheid crimes.

        I have ZERO problem with your writing about Israel’s crimes. I invited you to do just that. My archive is open; my opposition to Zionism/Israel’s policies are clear as day.

        You wrote:

        Kay24 : What other group of people would send precision bombs into civilian structures…. [emphasis added]

        I wrote:

        The question is: why didn’t you just focus on Israel’s wrongs. Why did you feel the need to falsely compare Zionist actions to the actions of other groups of people?

        Why didn’t you just write: “Israel sends precision bombs into civilian structures… ETC.” and discuss/condemn that?

        Why did you need to falsely suggest that no other group of people would do that?

        The only issue I raised was your suggestion that no other group besides Israeli Zionists “would send precision bombs into civilian structures…”

        You can try to deflect all you want and misrepresent what I said, but it won’t fly.

        So here is the question again:

        Why didn’t you just write: “Israel sends precision bombs into civilian structures… ETC.” and discuss/condemn that? Why did you need to falsely suggest that no other group of people would do that?

        You can answer the question or not, I don’t care. But don’t try to misrepresent it.

  9. yonah fredman
    February 29, 2016, 5:53 pm

    I have not read the whole article.

    “But as Israeli politics blogger Yossi Gurvitz explained to us in a Tel Aviv restaurant Thursday afternoon, demolition of the Al-Aqsa compound and construction of a temple is part of a messianic prophecy that spawned the Temple Mount movements. “They are consciously preparing for the final war in which humanity will be divided into those who serve God and those who serve the devil – and those who serve the devil will be destroyed.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/when-i-have-the-opportunity-to-do-it-i-will-likud-lawmaker-vows-to-demolish-al-aqsa-mosque/#sthash.CIWE28dy.dpuf

    I’m sure Gurvitz has read more of the literature of the hard core “Temple Faithful” than I have, but this battle between those who serve God and serve the devil is not part of the run of the mill “temple faithful”. (The photoshopped photo of the temple mount without the mosques and with a temple was common back in my day in “73 and I use the noncapitalized temple faithful to refer to the widespread desire for a rebuilt temple among those who pray three times a day.)

    In other words the hard core ideologues who are serious about blowing up the Mosque might indeed see the act as something akin to starting world war III, which Gurvitz’s comment portrays. (Those who blew the legs off the mayors in 1980 and also wished to blow up the mosques, did not express themselves in such terms. They said that the human effort to deal with the job of building the temple required of them the human effort of blowing up the mosques and that the rest was up to God to grant them the red heifer and other means of building the temple. If indeed they also were thinking in terms of a battle between servants of God and servants of the devil, they certainly kept quiet about it.)

    This guy Hazan is an idiot and til a year ago I never heard of him and he does not seem to me to be and up and coming star, but rather someone grabbing 15 minutes of fame.

    So let us leave his person for the moment and deal with the segment of the Israeli public to whom he is talking.

    The radical zealots of the west bank are dangerous, but their primary danger is in the types of acts of violence we have seen in the recent past: burning the family in Duma and burning the Khdeir kid, harassment and burning of fields, uprooting trees and the sort.

    Defying world opinion in the battle against Arafat and even against the Palestinians is certainly of a sort with which we are familiar. But the destruction of the mosques is of an entirely different magnitude and this highlights Hazan’s idiocy.

    Unfortunately his idiocy and the idiocy of Lieberman and Bennett are not that far apart. Unfortunately the common sense of people like Lieberman and Bennett has been damaged by their living in a bubble and so the idiocy of Hazan reminds me of some real damaging idiocy.

    • Mooser
      February 29, 2016, 6:56 pm

      “I have not read the whole article.”

      “Yonah” not reading the article, announcing you haven’t read the article, and then writing an irrelevant comment can lead to a failure of communication! When that happens, can you depend on the kindness of strangers?

    • Sibiriak
      March 1, 2016, 3:01 am

      Yatom: Jews Nearly Succeeded in 1984 Temple Mt. Bomb Plot”
      Haaretz (2004)

      Likud MK Ehud Yatom, who as a former Shin Bet official was one of the commanders of the operation to seize the members of the “Jewish Underground” terror group, said Sunday that the group was “very close” to carrying out a planned multiple bombing against Muslim holy sites on the Temple Mount in 1984.

      Security sources have said possible actions included an attempt to crash a drone packed with explosives on the Temple Mount, or a manned suicide attack with a light aircraft during mass Muslim worship on the Mount. Other possibilities include an attempt by right-wing extremists to assassinate a prominent Temple Mount Muslim leader, perhaps from the Waqf Islamic trust.

      Yatom, speaking on Army Radio of the Jewish Underground of the 1980s, said, “We were very close, close as touching blood, to a most serious terrorist bombing as members of the Underground planted five bombs in five buses,, which were then to convey innocent civilians and tourists.

      “We were close, very close, to a situation in which people with truly distorted, wicked minds, tried to strike a place very sacred to Muslims on the Temple Mount.”
      * * * * *
      […]Israeli security sources speculate that the assassination of a Waqf official might be chosen even though it would not cause mass injury or damage to the Al-Aqsa mosque or the Dome of the Rock. The aim of the Temple Mount attack conspiracy, they said, would be to carry out a visible provocation that sparked violent confrontation in the territories.

      * * * * *
      Speaking on the Channel Two “Meet the Press” program Saturday, Hanegbi said: “There is no information about specific individuals, because the Shin Bet and police would not let them continue [with their plot]. But there are troubling indications of purposeful thinking, and not detached philosophy … There is a danger that [extremists] would make use of the most explosive site, the hope that a chain reaction would bring about the destruction of the peace process.” [emphasis added]

      http://www.haaretz.com/news/yatom-jews-nearly-succeeded-in-1984-temple-mt-bomb-plot-1.129418
      ——————–

      Those Jewish terrorists were completely delusional– they actually thought there was a genuine “peace process” to be destroyed.

  10. Talkback
    February 29, 2016, 6:05 pm

    Jewish democracy 101:

    A Jews can still be the deputy speaker of the parliament, after he admits planning an act of terrorism to destroy the 3rd holiest site of the Nonjewish community.

  11. lysias
    February 29, 2016, 6:36 pm

    One more parallel with Nazi Germany, which burned down the synagogues.

  12. James Canning
    March 1, 2016, 12:56 pm

    Oren Hazan is an idiot.

  13. MHughes976
    March 1, 2016, 5:20 pm

    I don’t think that the threat to restore the Temple should be taken seriously. The Israeli public cannot, from all we hear of it, be ready for altars streaming with blood: just not right for tourism and the international image. The religious establishment can’t be ready for a whole new (to the modern world) centre and new-sry.e leadership nor the political authorities for the election of a High Priest who would remember the pre-eminence of his office in the golden Hasmonean days. The existence of the Muslim edifices is a good excuse for avoiding the topic and blaming someone else. The Temple Faithful are all talk and no Urim and Thummim.

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