Israeli racism unmasks Netanyahu goodwill video

Israel/Palestine
on 99 Comments

Was it meant as an epic parody or an insult to his audience’s intelligence? It was hard to tell.

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu took to social media to apologize for last year’s notorious election-day comment, when he warned that “the Arabs are coming out to vote in droves” – a reference to the fifth of Israel’s population who are Palestinian.

In videos released last week in English and Hebrew, Netanyahu urged Palestinian citizens to become more active in public life. They needed to “work in droves, study in droves, thrive in droves,” he said. “I am proud of the role Arabs play in Israel’s success”.

Pointedly, Ayman Odeh, head of the Palestinian-dominated Joint List party, noted that 100,000 Bedouin citizens could not watch the video because Israel denies their communities electricity, internet connections and all other services.

Swiftly and predictably, the reality of life for Israel’s 1.7 million Palestinians upstaged Netanyahu’s fine words.

In a radio interview, Moti Dotan, the head of the Lower Galilee regional council, sent a message to his Palestinian neighbours: “I don’t want them at my [swimming] pools.” Sounding like a mayor in the southern United States during the Jim Crow-era, he added: “Their culture of cleanliness isn’t the same as ours. Why is that racist?”

Dotan was no extremist, observed the liberal newspaper Haaretz. He represents the Israeli mainstream. Notably, Netanyahu did not distance himself from Dotan’s remarks.

At the same time, Samar Qupty, star of a new film on Palestinians in Israel called Junction 48, was questioned for two hours and then strip searched at Ben Gurion airport and denied her hand luggage before being allowed to fly to an international film festival.

Stories of state-sponsored humiliation at the airport are routine for Israel’s Palestinian academics, journalists, actors and community leaders – in fact, for any Palestinian active in the public sphere.

The list of restrictions on Palestinian citizens is long and growing. A database by the legal group Adalah shows that some 60 Israeli laws explicitly discriminate against non-Jews, with another 18 in the pipeline.

Two laws passed last month intensify the repression of dissent. An Expulsion Law is designed to empower Israeli MPs to oust Palestinian lawmakers whose views offend them, while a Transparency Law stigmatizes human rights groups working to protect Palestinian rights.

Recently leaked protocols reveal that the police have secretly awarded themselves powers to use live fire against Palestinian protesters in Israel, even if they pose no danger. Yet another law threatens jail for any Palestinian citizen who tries to dissuade another from volunteering in the Israeli army.

Growing numbers of Palestinian citizens, including poets and writers, are being jailed or put under house arrest for posts on social media the Israeli authorities disapprove of.

Defence minister Avigdor Lieberman recently compared the work of the Palestinians’ national poet, Mahmoud Darwish, to Hitler’s Mein Kampf. Darwish is banned from school curriculums.

The culture minister, Miri Regev, meanwhile, has tied state funding for theatre and dance companies to their readiness to perform in Jewish settlements, illegally located in the occupied territories in the West Bank.

In his video, Netanyahu said: “Jews and Arabs should reach out to each other, get to know each other’s families. Listen to each other.”

And yet his officials have just halved funding for the training of Palestinian student teachers, though not Jewish ones, to deter the former from pursuing teaching careers. Jewish schools face severe staff shortages, but Israel’s educational segregation is so complete that Palestinian citizens cannot be allowed to teach Jewish children.

Netanyahu also extolled his government for a promise to increase funding for Israel’s near-bankrupt Palestinian local authorities. He forgot to mention, however, that he had conditioned the money on the same councils demolishing thousands of homes in their jurisdiction. For decades Palestinians in Israel have been routinely denied building permits.

Israel’s Palestinian citizens were not fooled by Netanyahu’s video. But as their leaders noted, they were not the intended audience. The video was a cynical PR exercise aimed firmly at the Europeans, who have been discomfited by Israel’s increasingly repressive climate and the government’s regular incitement against its Palestinian minority.

Netanyahu is worried about a backlash in the West, including growing support for the boycott movement, European efforts to revive peace talks, and potential moves at the United Nations and International Criminal Court.

Palestinians in Israel have known worse repression than they currently endure. For Israel’s first two decades they lived under military rule, locked into their towns and villages and largely invisible unless they agreed to do and say as they were told. Palestinian MPs could be elected to the parliament but only if they were first approved by Zionist parties like Netanyahu’s.

The Israeli right sounds ever more nostalgic for that era. Slowly the ethos of the military government for Israel’s Palestinians is returning – and the perfume of Netanyahu’s soothing words about ending “discord and hate” will not cover the stench.

A version of this article first appeared in the National, Abu Dhabi.

About Jonathan Cook

Jonathan Cook won the Martha Gellhorn Special Prize for Journalism. His latest books are “Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East” (Pluto Press) and “Disappearing Palestine: Israel’s Experiments in Human Despair” (Zed Books). His new website is jonathan-cook.net.

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99 Responses

  1. Marnie
    August 3, 2016, 10:06 am

    It’s a farce.

  2. affinity292
    August 3, 2016, 1:59 pm

    The Adallah “list” has long been debunked. I invite anyone who cares enough to be bothered to actually read the list for oneself and apply critical thinking skills.

    Here is a thoughtful report: http://www.ngo-monitor.org/reports/adalah_s_database_of_laws_imagining_racism_to_demonize_israel_/

    See also: below

    “Adalah’s legal database promotes the false and demonizing allegation that Zionism is racism, and labels all references to the Jewish connection to Israel, including use of the Hebrew calendar or menorah symbol, as racist,” Bar- Ilan University Prof. Gerald Steinberg, head of the Jerusalem- based NGO Monitor, told the Post on Tuesday…

    “Furthermore, almost half of these so-called ‘racist laws’ are actually fringe legislative proposals that were not approved by the Knesset,” he said. “Misleading readers by presenting draft proposals as approved legislation is not only dishonest but also totally distorts Israel’s vibrant democratic process.”

    The report, titled “Adalah’s Database of Laws: Imagining Racism to Demonize Israel,” takes aim at the database, launched in March 2013 on the Adalah’s website and promoted by it on Facebook with the more provocative name “Racist Laws.”

    The report notes that the database is a list of 101 laws and proposed legislation that never became law, which Adalah considers to “discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in all areas of life, including their rights to political participation, access to land, education, state budget resources, and criminal procedures. Some of the laws also violate the rights of Palestinians living in the 1967 OPT [‘Occupied Palestinian Territories”] and [of] Palestinian refugees.”

    NGO Monitor said one of the reasons it analyzed the database is that it spreads false information that has been used by various pro-Palestinian activists and cited in leading publications such as The New York Times.

    “Adalah does not define its selection methodology or describe systematically how each law is considered discriminatory,” stated the report.

    “In addition, although the database is in English, Adalah does not provide English translations of the laws. Instead it offers descriptions that are occasionally inaccurate or misquote the law.”

    In addition, Adalah “ignores the language in some laws that specifically promotes or protects ethnic minority groups in Israel.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Adalah-list-of-discriminatory-laws-is-faulty-meant-to-demonize-Israel-report-382839

    And

    Flag Law

    For example, the advocacy group Adalah cites the 1949 Flag and Emblem Law as an exemplar of what it calls “20 laws that discriminate against the Palestinian minority in Israel.”

    This claim is transparently absurd. Israel’s flag law asserts that the

    “State flag” means the flag which the Provisional Council of State, on the 25th Tishri 5709 (28th October 1948), proclaimed as the flag of the State of Israel, or a flag, of any size whatsoever, similar in design to the said flag and includes any object bearing the design of the State flag.

    To say that the law discriminates, presumably because the flag includes a Star of David, is akin to saying that the U.S. flag, with its 13 stripes, discriminates against the 37 states that were not among the 13 original colonies — never mind the crosses depicted on the flags of the United Kingdom, Denmark, Norway, Australia, Iceland, New Zealand and others. It is simply not a serious allegation…
    http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=35&x_article=2253

    • Mr.T
      August 3, 2016, 5:10 pm

      “Here is a thoughtful report”

      You made a mistake here. You promised a thoughtful report, and linked to a couple of propaganda outfits like {snort} ngo monitor.

      ““Adalah’s legal database promotes the false and demonizing allegation that Zionism is racism”

      There’s nothing either false nor demonizing in that truth: Zionism is racism. (Or at least, the moral equivalent of racism, if one is a pedant fixated on the fact that the basis for Zionist bigotry is the population’s ethno-religious background and not strictly race [although there is certainly much actual race-based racism in Israel. See, e.g., the interior minister’s boast about Israel being “for the white man.])

      ““Furthermore, almost half of these so-called ‘racist laws’ are actually fringe legislative proposals that were not approved by the Knesset,” he said. “Misleading readers by presenting draft proposals as approved legislation is not only dishonest but also totally distorts Israel’s vibrant democratic process.” ”

      Actually, I think it give accurate context to that “vibrant” so-called democracy that JSIL has. The fact that the Knesset seats the equivalent of Klansmen and permits them to propose laws sheds light on the bigotry that is a the root of the Apartheid State.

      “To say that the law discriminates, presumably because the flag includes a Star of David, is akin to saying that the U.S. flag, with its 13 stripes, discriminates against the 37 states that were not among the 13 original colonies…”

      This is sheer nonsense. The inclusion of the Star of David is discriminatory because it purposefully excludes half of the population living under the evil government that flies, and is the half that is under seize and oppressed by that evil government AND because the evil perpetrated by that government is meted out against the oppressed population based on whether the people are or are not Jews. That’s why it’s discriminatory.

      • Elizabeth Block
        August 4, 2016, 12:17 pm

        The Israeli flag, with the star of David, is like the old Canadian flag with the British coat of arms. When the new Maple Leaf flag was being introduced, a good fifty years ago, an English Canadian’s reaction was, “You’re giving the country to the pea-soupers!”
        Canada has improved since then. Israel, by all accounts, is only getting worse.

        BTW: A story which I hope is true. In 1963 one of the top stand-up comedians was in Toronto. (Mort Sahl? Lenny Bruce? Someone else? Dunno.) He met the press, and someone asked him what he thought of a country that didn’t even have its own flag. He replied, “It’s a start.”

    • Mooser
      August 3, 2016, 5:45 pm

      “CAMERA” and “JPOST” and “apply your critical thinking skills”!

      ROTFLMSJAO!! And you “affinity292” are applying those mad Zionist public relations skillz. Deep down, people have a desire to obey their betters, and will obey you.

    • amigo
      August 3, 2016, 6:36 pm

      affinity—-U very funny !!!

      NGO monitor and C.A.M.E.R.A —what,s next , maybe a dose of zionist racist nonsense from Joan Peters.

      Did you just graduate from Hasbarat central???.

      • DaBakr
        August 3, 2016, 8:10 pm

        @a

        look up ‘virtue signaling’ or just ‘signaling’. its what people in tight groups — especially far left wing– do to let the members of their group know that they are righteous, humane and ‘in with the program’.
        perfect example is the almost universal opinion on mw that c.a.m.e.r.a. is somehow a tainted, disgusting and unreliable news source or fact-checking blog Or- making sure people know to what degree one hates netanyahu, Shakid , Yaalon, dersh, and loves chomsky salieda , iran, and definitely the Tamini family(hard to not like), is de riguere . finklestein has some flexibility. ,

        . Use of other ‘trigger’ words that let your group know your…..i don’t want to say brainwashed but making sure the ‘group’ here is totally shut off from legitimate , intelligent (and naturally, like mw, wrong sometimes) defense of zionism or the state of israel

      • Mooser
        August 3, 2016, 9:13 pm

        Quick DaBakr! Run, run, before the “virtue signaling” (you know, like saying “God doesn’t want the Jews to have Palestine”) and refusal to fact-check at CAMERA and JPOST sucks you in, too!

        And DaBakr, did somebody tell you that there is such a thing as a ‘negative hit’ or a ‘negative UPV’ or a ‘negative session’? Cause it’s not true. Your “hits” count just like mine. In the exact same way. There’s no other way they can count, chump.
        You can’t even grasp that simple fact about the web, but you will keep Zionism going into the 21st Century. Ho-Kay!

      • DaBakr
        August 3, 2016, 10:07 pm

        @m

        don’t know what your babbling about with “hits” but i assume its something along the lines of your threatening me with the infamous mw archives. lol.

      • Marnie
        August 4, 2016, 5:04 am

        @ Dohbakr
        Still chained to your keyboard, forced to make comments on a site that you love to hate I see – your occupation is a real MF. Still prayin’ for your healin’.

      • Mooser
        August 4, 2016, 3:14 pm

        “I don’t know what your babbling about with “hits”…”

        Thank you, that was exactly my point. You just go on thinking every one of your comments is a hit against Mondo.
        Why, if you comment enough, it’ll drive Mondo to the bottom of the ratings! Keep trying.

    • Walker
      August 4, 2016, 12:05 am

      Here is a thoughtful report . . . I invite anyone who cares enough to be bothered to actually read the list for oneself and apply critical thinking skills.

      I did glance at your link, hosted by the thoughtful ngo-monitor.org, among whose International Advisory Board members are the uber-thoughtful Elliot Abram, James Woolsey, and Alan Dershowitz.

      I applied critical thinking skills. I found that, contrary to the NGO Monitor’s opinion, I do find discriminatory Israel’s refusal to grant citizenship to the West-Bank spouses of Israeli citizens when, according to Wikipedia, “Israel traditionally automatically granted citizenship to spouses of Jewish Israeli citizens”.

      I found it very interesting that NGO Monitor chose not to mention the most egregious discriminatory law. This is the Right of Return, whereby any Jew may immigrate to Israel even if he has no blood connection to the place, while no exiled Palestinian may return to Israel despite being born there.

      It also turns out that a link on the Adallah website gets redirected to this:
      https://ohkehbaby-country.net/56312038679/c8b5766d9acdf0009cdfaff88ee74be1.html

      which implored me to download a critical Firefox update immediately by clicking a button. I can imagine what might happen if I did. (I deleted a couple of characters from the above for safety).

      Funny how often malware is deposited on pro-Palestinian sites, or, failing that, how often those sites are falsely reported to to web security sites as dangerous. It’s all in support of thoughtful critical analysis!

    • talknic
      August 4, 2016, 5:10 am

      @ affinity292 ” I invite anyone who cares enough to be bothered to actually read the list for oneself and apply critical thinking skills”

      Oh. OK … Meanwhile, in the critical thinking skills area … “To say that the law discriminates, presumably because the flag includes a Star of David .. “

      It includes a religious symbol for Jews only. There are numerous religions in Israel.

      “… is akin to saying that the U.S. flag, with its 13 stripes, discriminates against the 37 states that were not among the 13 original colonies … “

      Uh huh. The 37 states were not colonies, so they’re discriminated against by not being included with the colonies. Makes Ziosense to someone with Ziocriticalthinkingskills … I guess.

      • Mikhael
        August 7, 2016, 4:03 am

        Mr.T August 5, 2016, 10:42 am

        “There is not one right under Israeli law that Jewish citizens of Israel have that non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have.”

        That’s an absolute lie.

        If your allegation that I am telling a lie is to be taken seriously then you must provide an example of a right that Jewish citizens have in Israel that non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have and cannot have under Israeli law soleley because they are non-Jews.

        But even so, the fact that your Apartheid democratic and secular Jewish nation-state that affords full equal civil rights to citizens who are part of the non-Jewish minority state makes this distinction concerning citizenship, while affording citizenship on a bigoted basis is, itself, enough to condemn…

        Many democratic nation-states make it easier for foreign-born people with ancestry in the dominant ethnic group to gain citizenship (e.g., Hungary, Germany, Greece, Armenia, Albania) than foreign-born people without ancestry in the dominant ethnic group. That’s right, just and fair.

        That’s not to mention the fact that it is, at the same time, talking out of the both sides of its mouth by claiming all of this land as “Israel” while also not extending to the non-Jews — whose land it actually is — the alleged rights that this evil state supposedly affords, solely because these people are non-Jews.

        Israel has been committed to a negotiated solution and territorial compromise since 1993.

        Either get . . . behind the green line, give everyone from river to sea absolute equality

        A two-state solution is necessary, but the contours of the first ever Palestinian-Arab state won’t be defined by the former “green line” which was nothing but a temporary armistice line between the Transjordan and Israel following the cessation of hostilities between those two states in 1949. That ship sailed a while ago.

    • Jon66
      August 4, 2016, 7:08 am

      Roughly a third of all countries, 64, have religious symbols on their flags. This doesn’t mean that the citizens of those countries who are of religions not depicted on the flag do not feel as included. But it is an accepted practice around the world and not generally viewed as discrimination.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/01/country-flags-religious-symbols_n_6250060.html

      • talknic
        August 4, 2016, 9:52 am

        @ Jon66

        “Roughly a third of all countries, 64, have religious symbols on their flags. This doesn’t mean that the citizens of those countries who are of religions not depicted on the flag do not feel as included. But it is an accepted practice around the world and not generally viewed as discrimination”

        Could be because they’re NOT discriminated against as are many non-Jews in Israel

      • Mr.T
        August 4, 2016, 10:29 am

        “But it is an accepted practice around the world and not generally viewed as discrimination.”

        Nor would it be in JSIL, if it were not coupled with, and reinforced by the ethno-religious discrimination and policies of that Apartheid state; policies which are inherent in, and part and parcel of and inexorably flow from, that state’s racist ideology.

      • Jon66
        August 4, 2016, 11:50 am

        Talknic,
        Do you view having a religious symbol on the national flag as a form of discrimination in those countries which have multiple religions?

      • Annie Robbins
        August 4, 2016, 12:46 pm

        Do you view having a religious symbol on the national flag as a form of discrimination in those countries which have multiple religions?

        jon, are you willfully ignoring talknics earlier response? he wrote

        “Could be because they’re NOT discriminated against as are many non-Jews in Israel”.

        or mr T:

        if it were not coupled with, and reinforced by the ethno-religious discrimination and policies of that Apartheid state; policies which are inherent in, and part and parcel of and inexorably flow from, that state’s racist ideology.

        maybe this analogy will clarify. on american money is states “in god we trust”. could one, as an atheist, feel this discriminates? if ones ability to use that money was hindered by a lack of adherence in trusting god, one would likely consider that statement on the currency a form of discrimination. or if one traveled to other countries and found ones ability to purchase items based on statements or symbols on their currency one might consider that a form of discrimination.

        do you understand?

      • echinococcus
        August 4, 2016, 12:26 pm

        John66,

        That’s it! Just the right argument, don’t you think? Compare historic flags from way back when religion was part of any country’s official identity… with a Crusader State founded in 1948, after the declarations of decolonization and the UN statute.
        That’s the way to convince us that your trendy, modern cutting-age state is the State of the Art in the matter of states.

      • Marnie
        August 4, 2016, 12:50 pm

        “however, if my ability to use that money was hindered by my lack of adherence in trusting their god, it might consider that statement a form of discrimination. or if i traveled to other countries and found my ability to purchase items based on statements or symbols on their currency i might consider that a form of discrimination. do you understand? ”

        +infinity Annie –

      • Annie Robbins
        August 4, 2016, 12:55 pm

        thanks marnie! you cited me before i edited my comment to a reference of “one” instead of using myself as an example. it didn’t change the meaning tho.

      • talknic
        August 4, 2016, 1:09 pm

        Typical Zionist propagandist ignores what has been said and digs his cathole deeper

        @ Jon66 August 4, 2016, 11:50 am

        “Talknic,
        Do you view having a religious symbol on the national flag as a form of discrimination in those countries which have multiple religions?”

        If they’re discriminated against. Non-Jews in Israel are!

      • echinococcus
        August 4, 2016, 1:50 pm

        maybe this analogy will clarify. on american money is states “in god we trust”. could one, as an atheist, feel this discriminates? if ones ability to use that money was hindered by a lack of adherence in trusting god, one would likely consider that statement on the currency a form of discrimination. …
        do you understand?

        I don’t.

        That statement on the money and the Eisenhower pledge of allegiance both tell me that being born in the US does not make me a real citizen in the eyes of its government. It has nothing to do with the validity of the currency.

        That, in fact, has been the trigger of a lifelong revolt not only for me but a lot of people I know. It tells us “the Constitution is invalid; it has been subverted by a de facto theocracy, here is a big middle finger and whaddyagonnadoboutit?”

        The Zionist flag shouts to all that the owners of the country are slaves by law. This does not mean that sneaky practices in the US are any more tolerable even though they don’t claim the same number of victims.

        Also, this is when you realize that there is a very good reason for the French ban on big crosses, skullcaps, veils and suchlike ostentatious religious statements on government property.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 4, 2016, 3:11 pm

        That statement on the money .. tell[s] me that being born in the US does not make me a real citizen in the eyes of its government.

        not to be picky, but how you feel about it or what it tells you is akin to jon’s usage of the term “view” (“do you view”). note the responses i cited from both talknic and mr t related to actions (policies) taken by the state demonstrating discrimination. this is what my analogy addressed — not feelings, views or opinion. although i understand people’s perceptions of the value of their citizenship (or non citizenship as the case may be) is an important topic, and likely there’s a wide range (multiple/varying) of responses in american society about this phrase on the dollar. but when i wrote “one would likely consider that statement on the currency a form of discrimination” (vs multiple/varying views) i was addressing a discriminatory policy (“ones ability to use that money was hindered by a lack of adherence in trusting god”).

        are there any examples you’re aware of representing discriminatory US policies or actions taken by the government against any US citizen (including you) as a result of this phrase on our currency?

        for an analogy to be applicable it needs to address the principles for which it was created. in this case discrimination should be represented by something concrete such as “policies of that Apartheid state”. i’m not justifying the phrase or arguing it is ok or i don’t oppose it. i’m suggesting for a charge of discrimination by the state to stick it’s got to be backed up by policies that discriminate. not sure the phrase itself does that.

        whereas, a demand by the state that someone recite the phrase against their will or stand in class and pray — that is a discriminatory practice.

      • Jon66
        August 4, 2016, 5:00 pm

        All,

        Talknic’s original post said,”It includes a religious symbol for Jews only. There are numerous religions in Israel.”

        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/08/unmasks-netanyahu-goodwill/#comment-170675

        He mentions the discrimination as a function of the one symbol on the flag vs many religions in the state. That is why I asked if the discrimination was related to only this condition. Later both he and other posters have said that the conditions for a religious symbol on a flag to be discriminatory it must be used in a country where there are other discriminatory laws as well as the symbol. And so it would seem most here feel that simply having a religious symbol on your flag is not a discriminatory law by itself. So is the flag of Denmark which has a cross and the Danish constitution an official state church a discriminatory flag?

      • echinococcus
        August 4, 2016, 7:57 pm

        Annie,
        Care to explain a little more clearly for my little brain that cannot see a difference (or one in degree only) between a state that violates its constitution to make statements directly excluding some of its citizens, and other discriminatory practice consisting in certain defined material advantages and benefits? It’s all unconstitutional discriminatory practice. That as a people we are roughly at the level of Saudi Arabia re the Establishment Clause, and that some US lawyers did try the hilarious acrobatics you mentioned should not make a major difference.
        There was a good reason for my mentioning the French law.

      • RoHa
        August 4, 2016, 11:31 pm

        The Israeli flag is certainly discriminatory against those who don’t like English folk dancing.

      • Mikhael
        August 5, 2016, 1:00 am

        talknic August 4, 2016, 1:09 pm
        Typical Zionist propagandist ignores what has been said and digs his cathole deeper

        @ Jon66 August 4, 2016, 11:50 am

        “Talknic,
        Do you view having a religious symbol on the national flag as a form of discrimination in those countries which have multiple religions?”

        If they’re discriminated against. Non-Jews in Israel are!

        There is not one right under Israeli law that Jewish citizens of Israel have that non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have. And non-Jewish citizens of Israel have more legal rights in Israel than Jewish non-citizens. Non-citizens of Israel, especially those who live abroad, Jewish or non-Jewish, do not have the same rights. Now, you will predictably link to the Israeli Declaration of Independence and claim that it grants every non-Jew who fled the former British Mandate of Palestine Israeli citizenship. This is false.

      • Marnie
        August 5, 2016, 3:53 am

        “So is the flag of Denmark which has a cross and the Danish constitution an official state church a discriminatory flag?” Nope.

        You’re either refusing accept you are wrong, wrong, wrong again Hans, or just want to drag out an unncessary conversation that was finished by Annie on 08/04/2016, 12:46 p.m. Either way, you should have been through much earlier.

      • Mr.T
        August 5, 2016, 10:42 am

        “There is not one right under Israeli law that Jewish citizens of Israel have that non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have.”

        That’s an absolute lie. But even so, the fact that your Apartheid state makes this distinction concerning citizenship, while affording citizenship on a bigoted basis is, itself, enough to condemn JSIL. That’s not to mention the fact that it is, at the same time, talking out of the both sides of its mouth by claiming all of this land as “Israel” while also not extending to the non-Jews — whose land it actually is — the alleged rights that this evil state supposedly affords, solely because these people are non-Jews. Either get your evil asses behind the green line, give everyone from river to sea absolute equality or STFU and wallow in your evil.

      • eljay
        August 5, 2016, 11:20 am

        || Mikhael: … There is not one right under Israeli law that Jewish citizens of Israel have that non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have. … Non-citizens of Israel, especially those who live abroad, Jewish or non-Jewish, do not have the same rights. … ||

        Do non-Jewish immigrants to Israel have exactly the same rights as Jewish immigrants to Israel?

        Do non-Jewish expats and refugees from Israel have exactly the same rights as Jewish expats and refugees from Israel?

        Do non-Jewish people up to n generations removed from Israel have exactly the same rights as Jewish people up to n generations removed from Israel?

        If all non-Jewish and Jewish citizens of, immigrants to and expats and refugees (“CIERs”) from Israel are equal in every way, what’s the point of calling Israel a “Jewish State” rather than an Israeli state?

      • Annie Robbins
        August 5, 2016, 11:28 am

        what’s the point of calling Israel a “Jewish State” rather than an Israeli state?

        because if it was an israeli state all israeli citizens would be considered israeli nationals and afforded the rights of israeli nationals (see nationality law which affords only jews certain rights denied to non jewish citizens of israel). #racism #apartheid

      • Annie Robbins
        August 5, 2016, 9:33 pm

        Annie, Care to explain a little more clearly for my little brain

        sure, people are more apt to view something as discriminatory or feel something is discriminatory when it infringes on their equal rights. however, it doesn’t mean a religious symbol (that doesn’t represent them) on their state flag they might not view as discriminatory.

        people are likely to feel discriminated against by accompanying actions (referenced as “discriminatory practice” — which is outlawed in the 24 amendment). but words do matter. i think references to god on our money and in our national anthem privileges the religious amongst us. but i don’t make a stink about it or think about it much because it doesn’t really impact me (not accompanied by a ‘practice’). i’m not a lawyer tho. this is just my hunch.

        jon:

        he and other posters have said that the conditions for a religious symbol on a flag to be discriminatory it must be used in a country where there are other discriminatory laws as well as the symbol. And so it would seem most here feel that simply having a religious symbol on your flag is not a discriminatory law by itself.

        i think you’re tweaking others words somewhat. my point was, people are more likely to feel discriminated against by a symbol if the implication of symbol is matched by discriminatory laws. the star of david on the flag, on military ammo, military equipment including weapons (used to kill and oppress others), etc etc is not a law, as far as i know. the star of david doesn’t kill anyone, but the state and (some of) the people who worship it do. so it’s likely when people burn it, they are burning its symbolism as a symbol of war, not the religion — not much different than when anti war activists burn an american flag. it’s a political symbol. whereas, denmark isn’t killing lately so know one thinks much about their flag except maybe the danish.

      • echinococcus
        August 6, 2016, 12:13 am

        Annie,

        Thanks, I now have a very fuzzy idea of where you’re going. As said, the attempt to define “discriminatory practice” as some action that materially and physically affects a group of people is not new; it’s the position of the enemies of the First Amendment, including some the usual suspects among the justices. It’s not unanimous; some people have won in federal courts by just claiming the Constitution and the right to be protected from religion as a captive audience. Absurdity for absurdity, I’ll answer that the discriminatory practice of an overt violation of the Constitution on the dollar bill threatens my life by menacing blood pressure spurts and stroke every time I use one.
        It’s not like an old-established, historical flag carrying a cross or a crescent.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 6, 2016, 9:55 pm

        I now have a very fuzzy idea

        that happens with little brains.

        the attempt to define “discriminatory practice” as some action that materially and physically affects a group of people is not new

        wow.

        the discriminatory practice of an overt violation of the Constitution on the dollar bill threatens my life by menacing blood pressure spurts and stroke every time I use one.

        have you tried a chill pill?

      • Mooser
        August 6, 2016, 3:53 pm

        “the star of david on the flag, on military ammo, military equipment including weapons (used to kill and oppress others)”

        “Annie, I can’t even remember how many times I’ve told “Yonah” and “Jon s” that Judaism really should try to incorporate the concept of sacredness into the Jewish religion. I’m a practical-minded person myself, but I think maybe some appreciation for sacred things might be introduced into Judaism without deleterious effects.

      • Mooser
        August 6, 2016, 4:16 pm

        “that the discriminatory practice of an overt violation of the Constitution on the dollar bill threatens my life by menacing blood pressure spurts and stroke every time I use one.”

        You can pay most everything on-line or with a debit card. And I wrote “God does not exist” with a indelible Sharpie on my debit card.

      • echinococcus
        August 6, 2016, 5:23 pm

        Mooser, when you pick on a deliberate absurdity offered as being just as absurd as the current pretext for violating the First, your first thought should be that a guy who has the time to claim his constitutional right can’t possibly afford a credit card.

      • echinococcus
        August 6, 2016, 10:41 pm

        Annie,

        It was prefaced “Absurdity for absurdity”, i.e. something as absurd –or a little less– than the ridiculous requirement to provide proof of one more, undefined, layer of discrimination. That request, of course, is the absurdity of those who are happy canceling the Establishment Cause.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 6, 2016, 11:01 pm

        the establishment cause? now that’s a cause i’ve never heard about before.

      • echinococcus
        August 6, 2016, 11:15 pm

        That’s the one Santy Caus is advertising for.

      • Mikhael
        August 7, 2016, 3:40 am

        eljay August 5, 2016, 11:20 am

        Do non-Jewish immigrants to Israel have exactly the same rights as Jewish immigrants to Israel?

        I’ll repeat. (Read the words highlighted in bold and try to process.) Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens of Israel have exactly the same rights in the State of Israel. Whether Jewish “immigrants” as opposed to non-Jewish “immigrants” have the same rights does not become relevant until those immigrants become citizens. Jewish immigrants to Israel (or non-Jews who can demonstrate at least one Jewish grandparent, or non-Jews married to a Jew or to another non-Jew with one demosntarble Jewish grandparent) can gain Israeli citizenship faster than a non-Jew with no Jewish ancestors or who is not married to a Jew or an Israeli. This is not only legal under Israeli law and intenrationallaw, but it is right, just and fair.

        Do non-Jewish expats and refugees from Israel have exactly the same rights as Jewish expats and refugees from Israel?

        Does this non-Jewish expat rom Israel that you are imagining have Israeli citizenship? If this person has Israeli citizenship, then yes, he or she has the same rights as Jewish expats from Israel who are Israeli citizens (and more rights than Jewish non-citizens of Israel). If such a person is not an Israeli citizen , then such a person is not entitled to the rights of Israeli citizenshipI’m not sure what Israeli citizenship rights he or she can claim if he or she lives abroad, other than to resume residence in Israel and claim lowered import duty as a returning Israeli citizen. Once such a person resumes residence in Israel, then this former expat has all the rights of any other Israeli citizen, Jewish or non-Jewish

        Do non-Jewish people up to n generations removed from Israel have exactly the same rights as Jewish people up to n generations removed from Israel?

        Absolutely not, and there is no morally justifiable reason why foreign-born non-Jews who claim that their ancestors lived within the borders of Israel n generations ago should be entitled to automatically gain citizenship n a Jewish nation-state in the same manner as foreign-born Jews can. Likewise, non-ethnic Armenians whose ancestors may have lived within the borders of the present-day Republic of Armenia (for example ethnic Azeri Turks) several generations ago are not entitled to Armenian citizenship, whereas ethnic Armenians from present-day Syria (what remains of it) whose ancestors lived in present-day Turkey n generations ago are entitled to Armenian citizenship rights in the present-day Republic of Armenia. This is right, just and fair.

        If all non-Jewish and Jewish citizens of, immigrants to and expats and refugees (“CIERs”) from Israel are equal in every way,

        Again, only the “C” — citizens — in your CIERs defined term has any relevance. If the “immigrants, expats and refugees” are not citizens then by definition they are not equal in every way.

        what’s the point of calling Israel a “Jewish State” rather than an Israeli state?

        Since states like Greece and Armenia and many others have citizens who do not belong to the dominant ethnic group but who enjoy equal rights under the law (in theory if not always in practice) then what’s the point in these states referrring to themselves as a Greek state or an Armenian state? And “Israeli” is basically just a synonym for “Jewish” anyway.

      • Mikhael
        August 7, 2016, 3:50 am

        Annie Robbins August 5, 2016, 11:28 am

        because if it was an israeli state all israeli citizens would be considered israeli nationals and afforded the rights of israeli nationals (see nationality law which affords only jews certain rights denied to non jewish citizens of israel)

        You mentioned Israel’s nationality law but you can’t name one right that it grants which privileges Jewish citizens of Israel to the detriment of non-Jewish citizens of Israel. Neither the Nationality Law nor any other legislation in Israel grants Jewish citizens rights that non-Jewish citizens are denied.

      • Mooser
        August 7, 2016, 1:14 pm

        “the establishment cause (clause)? now that’s a cause i’ve never heard about before.”

        Oh, “echin” is right, I think. Doing half the things conservatives say they want to do, (and Trump says he can do- LOL) would require doing away with the Establishment Clause and several other Amendments
        and lot’s of laws made on those bases.

        We could Google, say “what is required to overturn Constitutional Amendments” or a similar query.

        I think we are pretty much stuck with them.

      • Mooser
        August 7, 2016, 2:25 pm

        “right can’t possibly afford a credit card.”

        ‘Debit’ card. Not credit. In God they may trust, but in Mooser, never!

      • echinococcus
        August 7, 2016, 3:22 pm

        Michael,

        No need to force one whole, boring book on us: Greek and Armenian are not religions, period.

      • echinococcus
        August 7, 2016, 3:33 pm

        Mooser,

        No wonder the young haven’t heard about the Constitution (with an L or without.) Constitution is quaint, passé, out of fashion, useless, and as the other Zio guy Daniel says, a “throwback” to an “ideology and mindset” that is not for “human rights oriented, non-doctrinaire, humane progressive types”… like him.

      • Mikhael
        August 7, 2016, 6:15 pm

        echinococcus August 7, 2016, 3:22 pm

        Michael,

        No need to force one whole, boring book on us: Greek and Armenian are not religions, period.

        Jewish national identity isn’t solely contingent on adherence to any religion. My agnostic skepticism in an unproven deituy, disbelief in “Torah mi’ Sinai” and routine violation of the Jewish Sabbath makes me a Jew who does not observe any religion. That said, the Greeks and the Armenians both have officially recognized state religions (read the Constitution of the Hellenic Republic (Ελληνική Δημοκρατία), Article 3 explicity states Eπικρατούσα θρησκεία στην Eλλάδα είναι η θρησκεία της Aνατολικής Oρθόδοξης Eκκλησίας του Xριστού. (“The prevailing religion in Greece is that of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ)

        http://www.hellenicparliament.gr/Vouli-ton-Ellinon/To-Politevma/Syntagma/article-3/

        Pontic Greeks from the former USSR have been able to take advantage of their ethnic Greek heritage to obtain Greek (and thus EU) citizenship — a determinant for establishing their Greek heritage is a family history of belonging to a recognized Greek Orthodox church.

        http://www.ipw.uni-hannover.de/fileadmin/politische_wissenschaft/Dateien/luise_druke/nikolaidou_511_528.pdf

        https://www.scribd.com/document/35377559/MIGRATION-IDENTITY-AND-CITIZENSHIP-APPROACHES-FOR-ADDRESSING-CULTURAL-DIVERSITY-IN-GREECE

        Similar determining criteria exist to grant descendants of Armenians living in that country’s Diaspora the right to obtain Armenian citizenship. It is right, just and fair for both countries to grant citizenship to their co=-ethnic kin in the Diaspora; just as it is for Israel.

      • eljay
        August 7, 2016, 7:07 pm

        || Mikhael: I’ll repeat. (Read the words highlighted in bold and try to process.) Jewish citizens and non-Jewish citizens of Israel have exactly the same rights in the State of Israel. … ||

        Thanks for the unnecessary repetition.

        || … Whether Jewish “immigrants” as opposed to non-Jewish “immigrants” have the same rights does not become relevant until those immigrants become citizens. Jewish immigrants to Israel (or non-Jews who can demonstrate at least one Jewish grandparent, or non-Jews married to a Jew or to another non-Jew with one demosntarble Jewish grandparent) can gain Israeli citizenship faster than a non-Jew with no Jewish ancestors or who is not married to a Jew or an Israeli. … ||

        So, since Jewish immigrants can gain citizenship faster than non-Jewish immigrants, it becomes relevnat before those immigrants become citizens.

        || … This is not only legal under Israeli law and intenrationallaw, but it is right, just and fair. … ||

        No, it’s neither right, just nor fair for Jewish immigrants to receive preferential treatment.

        || Does this non-Jewish expat rom Israel that you are imagining have Israeli citizenship? If this person has Israeli citizenship, then yes, he or she has the same rights as Jewish expats from Israel who are Israeli citizens … ||

        That is right, just and fair.

        || … Absolutely not, and there is no morally justifiable reason why foreign-born non-Jews who claim that their ancestors lived within the borders of Israel n generations ago should be entitled to automatically gain citizenship n a Jewish nation-state in the same manner as foreign-born Jews can. … ||

        Thanks for stating clearly that Israel is a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        || … Since states like Greece and Armenia and many others have citizens who do not belong to the dominant ethnic group but who enjoy equal rights under the law … then what’s the point in these states referring to themselves as a Greek state or an Armenian state? … ||

        Greece and Armenia represent Greeks and Armenians. Israel should represent Israelis, not Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews.

        Greek and Armenian are bureaucratic nationalities that belong to all citizens of, immigrants to and expats and refugees from their respective countries (and if they’re not, they should be). This applies to Israel (and if it does not, it should), but not to “Jewish State”.

        || … And “Israeli” is basically just a synonym for “Jewish” anyway. ||

        Thanks for once again stating clearly that Israel is a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        BTW, I notice that you didn’t bother to address the question of Israel’s non-Jewish and Jewish refugees. No surprise there.

      • Mikhael
        August 7, 2016, 10:59 pm

        eljay August 7, 2016, 7:07 pm

        Thanks for the unnecessary repetition.

        The repetition was necessary as you have constantly repeated (probably hundreds of times) the outlandish notion that non-citizens who you deem to be “immigrants, refugees and expats” should be entitled to all of the same rights as citizens, whether those citizens could be categorized as “immigrants, refugees and expats” or whether those citizens came upon their citizenship by other means. It is absolutely true that Israel does not grant non-citizens who may be “immigrants, refugees and expats” the same rights as citizens who may be “immigrants, refugees and expats.” No country grants all the same rights to non-citizens as it does to its citizens — not even Israel!

        So, since Jewish immigrants can gain citizenship faster than non-Jewish immigrants, it becomes relevnat before those immigrants become citizens.

        Yup. This is right, just and fair. And while as a free human being you are entitled to whine about it as much as you want, your opinion carries no moral sway and even more importantly, will have no practical effect. Israel will always continue to favor Jewish immigrants over non-Jewish immigrants long after you and I are both dead. But for the record, as a general rule, Jewish immigrants to Israel usually gain Israeli citizenship faster than most non-Jewish immigrants, but there are several exceptions — for example a non-Jewish immigrant married to a Jewish immigrant spouse gets the Israeli citizenship at the same time as his or her Jewish spouse; another example is the Israeli Interior Ministry may have reasons for granting “non-Jewish immigrant X” immediate Israeli citizenship– as it did for an Indian Christian nanny of two Israeli children who saved the children’ds lives while their rabbinical emissary parents were being murdered in the Mumbai terror attacks . This is right, just and fair. There are many other countries that have very similar practices that favor immigrants of the majority ethnic group and fast-track them on the path to citizenship, among them the Federal Republic of Germany, which smoothes the process for ethnic Germans from the Eastern Bloc nations to acquire German citizenship, many of them multiple generations removed from Germany and who didn’t speak German, such as the Volga German descendants in Russia (although it has made this process more difficult in recent years); Armenia grants easy access to Armenian citizenship to ethnic Armenians from anywhere in the world, who have never set foot in Armenia and who may be descended from people who have never set foot within the borders of present-day Armenia; Greece also enables people of Greek ethnicity to easily immigrate to Greece. It is right, just and fair for Germany, Armenia and Greece to determine which category of would-be immigrants should have an easier ability to gain citizenship on the basis of ethnicity and it is right, just and fair for Isreael to do the same.

        || … This is not only legal under Israeli law and intenrationallaw, but it is right, just and fair. … ||

        No, it’s neither right, just nor fair for Jewish immigrants to receive preferential treatment.

        OK, you have yet again made your ridiculous opinion known on the record . And I will state again for the record that Israel will continue to give preferential treatment to Jewish immigrants long after you and I are both dead and that it is right, just and fair for it to do so. But non-Jewish citizens of Israel still have all the same civil rights as Jewish citizens of Israel. Although it’s easier for Jewish immigrants to obtain Israeli citizenship than it is for non-Jewish immigrants, that fact remains unaltered.

        || … Absolutely not, and there is no morally justifiable reason why foreign-born non-Jews who claim that their ancestors lived within the borders of Israel n generations ago should be entitled to automatically gain citizenship n a Jewish nation-state in the same manner as foreign-born Jews can. … ||

        Thanks for stating clearly that Israel is a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        The only way that that your allegation of Israel being a “religion-supremacist Jewish state” would be if you could provide evidence that Jewish religious law reigns supreme as the primary source of civil law over non-religious civil law and that the practice of non-Jewish religions (or no religions) are hindered with the encouragement of the state. There are elements that wish the latter to be true, but so far there is absolute freedom of (and from) religion; thus your description is without merit.

        Greece and Armenia represent Greeks and Armenians. Israel should represent Israelis, not Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews.

        Greece and Armenia represent people of ethnic Greek and ethnic Armenian descent who may or not be citizens of Greece or Armenia and who may or may not live with the borders of the Hellenic Republic of Greece or the Republic of Armenia. Israel represents Israeli citizens (whether Jewish or non-Jewish) and individuals who belong to Jewish communities in the Diaspora and and who may not yet have obtained Israeli citizenship but who identify with Israel. Whether you like it or not, Israeli Independence Day resonates more strongly for many Jews in Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal than Canada Day, even if those Jews are not (yet) Israeli citizens (but who may one day be). And Israel is fully within its legal and moral right to send emissaries to the Jews of Toronto, Winnipeg and Montreal to encourage them to obtain Israeli citizenship and move to Israel. Other than whine, there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it.

        Greek and Armenian are bureaucratic nationalities that belong to all citizens of, immigrants to and expats and refugees from their respective countries (and if they’re not, they should be)

        “Greek” and “Armenian” are ethnic descriptors that can refer to people who were never citizens of, nor are even descended from, people who were citizens of the Hellenic Republic of Greece nor the Republic of Armenia. There are Greek people who were born in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia whose grandparents were boirn in present-day Izmir, Turkey (formerly known as Smyrna) and were expelled from that city in the 1920s. They regard themselves as Greeks and the Greek government regards them as ethnic Greeks and as such, if they choose to immigrate to Greece they will receive preferential treatment and obtain Greek citizenship much more quickly than, say, a Nigerian who wants to immigrate to Greece. Ethnic Armenians from Aleppo, Syria fleeing the carnage of the civil war are automatically granted citizenship in the Republic of Armenia, even if their parents and grandparents never set foot in that country but rather lived in then-Constantinople before being deported to the Syrian desert by the Ottoman government. But while the Republic of Armenia is entitled to grant easy citizenship and refuge to its co-ethnics fleeing Syria, it owes nothing to the Syrian Arabs or Kurds who lived in the building right next door to those same ethnic Armenians form Syria and whose lives are threatened by the same conflict. It is is right, just and fair for Armenia to be choosy about what kind of people it wants to offer citizenship to and so far they have been rolling out the red carpet to people they consider fellow Armenians but haven’t been to helpful to non-ethnic Armenians fleeing Syria.

        || … And “Israeli” is basically just a synonym for “Jewish” anyway. ||

        Thanks for once again stating clearly that Israel is a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        Well, since “Jewish” doesn’t necessarily refer to a person who follows a certain religion, but does in fact refer to someone who is of a specific national and ethnic origin, in what way does stating the fact that “Israeli” is a traditional synonym for “Jew” show Israel to be a “religion-supremacist Jewish state” if non-Jewish citizens are legally considered Israeli citizens? Your allegation was that a status of “Israeli nationality” would answer the identity question of non-Jewish Israelis, but in reality t would be imposing a national identity on them that they don’t want or identify with. But “Israeli citizen” does not need to raise those identity questions as one can be a citizen of Israel without having an ethnically Israeli (which basically means Jewish) nationality — just as an ethnic Albanian can be a citizen of Greece without sharing an ethnic Greek national identity.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_communities_in_Greece

        BTW, I notice that you didn’t bother to address the question of Israel’s non-Jewish and Jewish refugees. No surprise there.

        There are no Jewish refugees in Israel and there are no Jewish refugees from Israel. Non-Jewish refugees in Israel who manage to obtain Israeli citizenship are entitled to all the citizenship rights that Jewish citizens of Israel have.

      • echinococcus
        August 8, 2016, 2:02 am

        Michael,

        No need to repeat yourself at length, people do get some things when written.
        First, I sure don’t need you to read me the Greek Constitution; I am perfectly familiar with the use of baptismal certificate for citizenship requests.
        Second, Greek or Armenian is still not a religion; a baptismal certificate does not make Greek a Russian or a Lebanese; vv. a Romaniote or Sefardí Greek, either Jewish or non-religious (or converted) with roots in Greece is as much a Greek citizen as any other.
        Finally, “Jewish without religion” is the height of absurdity. There is no such ethnicity, culture, nationality or peoplehood.

      • eljay
        August 8, 2016, 9:20 am

        || Mikhael: … No country grants all the same rights to non-citizens as it does to its citizens … ||

        I never said any country did. You might want to brush up on your reading / comprehension skills.

        || … Jewish immigrants to Israel usually gain Israeli citizenship faster than most non-Jewish immigrants, but there are several exceptions — for example a non-Jewish immigrant married to a Jewish immigrant spouse gets the Israeli citizenship at the same time as his or her Jewish spouse; another example is the Israeli Interior Ministry may have reasons for granting “non-Jewish immigrant X” immediate Israeli citizenship– as it did for an Indian Christian nanny of two Israeli children who saved the children’ds lives while their rabbinical emissary parents were being murdered in the Mumbai terror attacks . This is right, just and fair. … ||

        The last example is the only example of right, just and fair. The rest are examples of religion-based “Jewish State” supremacism.

        || … There are many other countries that have very similar practices that favor immigrants of the majority ethnic group and fast-track them on the path to citizenship, among them the Federal Republic of Germany, which smoothes the process for ethnic Germans … Armenia grants easy access to Armenian citizenship to ethnic Armenians from anywhere in the world … Greece also enables people of Greek ethnicity to easily immigrate to Greece. … ||

        Germany for Germans. Armenia for Armenians. Greece for Greeks. Israel for…no, not for Israelis (non-Jewish and Jewish alike) but for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews. Thanks for demonstrating once again that Israel is a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        || … The only way that that your allegation of Israel being a “religion-supremacist Jewish state” would be … ||

        …to point out that Jewish is not a bureaucratic nationality but a religion-based identity that can be acquired one of two ways:
        – a person undergoes a religious conversion to Judaism; or
        – a person is descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.

        And Israel was established and exists not as a state of and for all of its Israeli citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally, but as a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” primarily of and for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews.

        [Snip a whole bunch of blather.]

        || … There are no Jewish refugees in Israel and there are no Jewish refugees from Israel. Non-Jewish refugees in Israel who manage to obtain Israeli citizenship are entitled to all the citizenship rights that Jewish citizens of Israel have. ||

        And the non-Jewish refugees from Israel can go f*ck themselves. Got it.

      • Dan
        August 8, 2016, 7:20 pm

        Echinococcus

        I never said any such thing about the Constitution – you put words in my mouth – not a tactic I would have expected from you.

        Nor do I think your opinions expressed here re the Constitution are a throwback.

        What bugs me even more than the currency is the fact that Congress has paid Chaplains on the taxpayer’s dime.
        James Madison tried to prevent it, and years later argued against it “Detached Memoranda” circa 1820.

      • echinococcus
        August 9, 2016, 12:42 am

        Daniel,

        So you didn’t include the First in your list of dépassé throwbacks? You must be a quaint, antiquated exception then. For me but also for my enemies, it’s a package deal.

      • Mikhael
        August 21, 2016, 11:39 pm

        August 8, 2016, 2:02 am

        Michael

        Second, Greek or Armenian is still not a religion

        Right. “Greek” and “Armenian” refer to one’s ethnic and national identities. Like “Jew” refers to a national and ethnic identity.

        a Romaniote or Sefardí Greek, either Jewish or non-religious (or converted) with roots in Greece is as much a Greek citizen as any other.

        The few remaining Romaniote Jews or Sefaradi Jews (it is properly transliterated as “Sefaradi” by the way, not “Sefardí”) living in Yanina or Saloniki can be a Greek citizens, sure. They’re still of Jewish nationality by ancestry and most of them will assert this when asked, whether or not they are observant Jews. They are Greek citizen who belong to ethnic national minorities, just as there are Greek citizens who are ethnic Albanians, Greek citizens who are ethnic Turks, and Greek citizens who are ethnic Megleno-Romanians. These are minority communities in Greece that retain ethnic kinship ties and a natiponal bond with co-ethnics in other nation-states. Likewise, the tiny community of Greek citizens who belong to the Jewish national minority have ties to their fellow Jews across the Mediterranean in Israel and to the world Jewish community that are just as strong, and many would assert that those ties are stronger, than their ties to their fellow Greek citizens who do not belong to the Jewish community in Greece.

        Finally, “Jewish without religion” is the height of absurdity. There is no such ethnicity, culture, nationality or peoplehood.

        You can pretend that your story is true, but it doesn’t make it so. I didn’t stop being a Jew when I ceased to believe in God or keep Shabbat and kashruth.

      • Mikhael
        August 22, 2016, 12:36 am

        eljay August 8, 2016, 9:20 am

        || Mikhael: … No country grants all the same rights to non-citizens as it does to its citizens … ||

        I never said any country did. You might want to brush up on your reading / comprehension skills.

        Then why do you insistently repeat the ludicrous statement that Israel should treat “citzens, immigrants , expats and refugees” equally, as if immigrants, expats and refugees who are not citizens of Israel should be given all the same rights as people who are citizens of Israel .You are explicitly, not even impliedly, stating that Israel, alone of all countries, must grant non-citizens the same rights as its citizens have.

        || … Jewish immigrants to Israel usually gain Israeli citizenship faster than most non-Jewish immigrants, but there are several exceptions — for example a non-Jewish immigrant married to a Jewish immigrant spouse gets the Israeli citizenship at the same time as his or her Jewish spouse; another example is the Israeli Interior Ministry may have reasons for granting “non-Jewish immigrant X” immediate Israeli citizenship– as it did for an Indian Christian nanny of two Israeli children who saved the children’ds lives while their rabbinical emissary parents were being murdered in the Mumbai terror attacks . This is right, just and fair. … ||

        The last example is the only example of right, just and fair. The rest are examples of religion-based “Jewish State” supremacism.

        The last example is an example of humanitarian gesture of gratitude to a foreigner who helped Israeli citizens. I’m sure many Palestinian Arabs resent her gaining Israeli citizenship. But it is right, just and fair for Israel, the nation-state of the Jewish People to extend preferential treatment to its co-nationals living in the Jewish Diaspora. You’re still failing to demonstrate how this is an example of “religion-based” supremacism, since an atheist or agnostic person of Jewish nationality from Toronto has this right as well.

        Germany for Germans. Armenia for Armenians. Greece for Greeks. Israel for…no, not for Israelis (non-Jewish and Jewish alike) but for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews. Thanks for demonstrating once again that Israel is a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        I can’t accept your gratitude, because I’ve failed to demonstrate this. Israel is the secular nation-state of the Jewish People, which extends preferential conditions for immigration purposes to people of Jewish national heritage living in the Diaspora, whether or not they believe in Jewish “religion” or “God” or “Torah” or the Spaghetti Monster or whatever. Not only is Israel the nation-state of the Jewish People, whether they live inside the State of Israel or in the Diaspora, it is also the state of all Israeli citizens, even those who belong to natinoal minority groups and/or practice non-Jewish religions. It is not mutually exclusive for Israel to be the state of the Jewish People and of all of its citizens and its definition of itself as jewish state doesn’t negatively affect the civil rights equally enjoyed by all its citizens. Only a bigot would think so.

        …to point out that Jewish is not a bureaucratic nationality but a religion-based identity that can be acquired one of two ways:
        – a person undergoes a religious conversion to Judaism; or
        – a person is descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism

        A small, statistically insignificant minority of Israeli citizens have acquired Israeli citizenship through religious conversion to Judaism. The vast majority of Jewish citizens of Israel are descended from Jews who lived in the country during antiquity, albeit mixed with some descent from converts their ancestors mingled with in the Diaspora. Nevertheless, a “religion-supremacist” Jewish state would, by definition, replace secular civil law with Jewish reigious law. There are several modern examples of “religion-supremacist” states in our lovely region of the Middle East that use religious law as the main source of civil law. Israel is not one of these states.

        And Israel was established and exists not as a state of and for all of its Israeli citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally,

        Israel is a state of and for all Israeli citizens, equally. It is also the nation-state of the Jewish People state that members of the Jewish diaspora abroad can identify with as their ancestral and cultural homeland and will always offer them an opportunity to become citizens of Israel, whereupon they will have all the same rights as other Israeli citizens, equally. Foreign-born Jews from abroad, even those from places like Canada, who take advantage of their legal and moral right as Jews to acquire Israeli citizenship will even be equal to the non-Jewish citizens of Israel.

        Israel is NOT a state of non-Jewish “immigrants, expats and refugees” who are NOT citizens of the State of Israel. If these non-Jewish “immigrants, expats or refugees” somehow manage to acquire Israeli citizenship by any of various means (e.g., (A) marriage to an Israeli citizen, whether said Israeli citizen is of Jewish or non-Jewish nationality, (B) through a process of long-term legal residence and naturalization proceedings, or (C) by decree of the Interior Minister for any of a number of reasons, e.g., (1) a humanitarian gesture or (2) for possessing a skill or making a contribution deemed valuable to Israeli society) then these non-Jewish citizens of Israel, even if they are “immigrants, expats or refugees” have every right to consider Israel as their state and Israel is a state “of and for” such “immigrants, expats and refugees” who hold Israeli citizenship.

        || … There are no Jewish refugees in Israel and there are no Jewish refugees from Israel. Non-Jewish refugees in Israel who manage to obtain Israeli citizenship are entitled to all the citizenship rights that Jewish citizens of Israel have. ||

        And the non-Jewish refugees from Israel can go f*ck themselves. Got it.

        What’s a “refugee from Israel”? If you mean the Arabic-speaking non-Jews who are the descendants of the Arabs who fled the country in 1948-1949, many at the behest of Arab governments that tried to ethnically cleanse the Jews from the country, since most of them identify as Palestinian Arabs they are entitled to national self-determination in a Palestinian Arab nation-state. They must take up the issue of repatriation to that state when and if it comes into existence, or integrate into their current countries of residence if they prefer. They can apply for redress for properties and assets lost in the conflict but they do not have an automatic right to seek citizenship in Israel. Likewise, Israeli Jews who are descended from families that were expelled from places like Iraq and Egypt aren’t owed citizenship or residency in those countries, but they can and should be encouraged to seek compensation for forcefully abandoned properties that were confiscated or nationalized by the governments of such states.

      • eljay
        August 22, 2016, 8:01 am

        || Mikhael: … Then why do you insistently repeat the ludicrous statement that Israel should treat “citzens, immigrants , expats and refugees” equally, as if immigrants, expats and refugees who are not citizens of Israel should be given all the same rights as people who are citizens of Israel .You are explicitly, not even impliedly, stating that Israel, alone of all countries, must grant non-citizens the same rights as its citizens have. ||

        Untie the knot in your panties. What I have said explicitly and what I believe should apply to all countries is this:
        – All citizens must be treated equally.
        – All immigrants must be treated equally.
        – All expats must be treated equally.
        – All refugees must be treated equally.

        || … But it is right, just and fair for Israel, the nation-state of the Jewish People to extend preferential treatment to its co-nationals living in the Jewish Diaspora. … ||

        It is “right, just and fair” only in the Zio-supremacist sense because Israel exists as a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        || … You’re still failing to demonstrate how this is an example of “religion-based” supremacism, since an atheist or agnostic person of Jewish nationality from Toronto has this right as well. … ||

        “Jewish” is a religion-based identity. There exists no country of “Jewish” whence Jewish people emerged.

        || … Not only is Israel the nation-state of the Jewish People … ||

        Right: It’s a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        || … It is not mutually exclusive for Israel to be the state of the Jewish People and of all of its citizens and its definition of itself as jewish state doesn’t negatively affect the civil rights equally enjoyed by all its citizens. Only a bigot would think so. … ||

        Only a Zio-supremacist would think that an Israeli state which – among other things – rejects its non-Jewish Israeli refugees and favours non-Israeli Jewish citizens of countries around the world is anything other than a supremacist construct.

        I didn’t bother to read the rest of your (typically) ridiculously long, blather-filled comment, so I have nothing more to add.

      • Mooser
        August 22, 2016, 1:37 pm

        ” I didn’t stop being a Jew when I ceased to believe in God or keep Shabbat and kashruth.”

        Oh, this is just great. Now Mondo is letting apostates comment on Judaism.
        Good ol’ “Mikhael”! Doesn’t believe in God or keep Shabbat and kashruth! But don’t, if you know what’s good for you, question the validity of his gets!! And the moving figger having been writ, he moves on.

      • Mikhael
        August 24, 2016, 4:52 pm

        eljay August 22, 2016, 8:01 am
        Untie the knot in your panties. What I have said explicitly and what I believe should apply to all countries is this:
        – All citizens must be treated equally.
        – All immigrants must be treated equally.
        – All expats must be treated equally.
        – All refugees must be treated equally.

        No country, not even an egalitarian and liberal society like Israel, treats non-citizens and its own citizens “equally”. You constantly and incessantly name three categories of “immigrants, expats and refugees” and accuse Israel of not treating them equally without specifying whether people in those three categories are citizens of Israel. Of course “immigrants, expats and refugees” can become Israeli citizens, but until they do, they are not owed all of of the rights and benefits due Israeli citizens. That is right, just and fair.

        || … But it is right, just and fair for Israel, the nation-state of the Jewish People to extend preferential treatment to its co-nationals living in the Jewish Diaspora. … ||

        It is “right, just and fair” only in the Zio-supremacist sense because Israel exists as a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        Except Israel does not exist as such, as Jewish religious law is not the main source of civil law.

        || … You’re still failing to demonstrate how this is an example of “religion-based” supremacism, since an atheist or agnostic person of Jewish nationality from Toronto has this right as well. … ||

        “Jewish” is a religion-based identity.

        Jewish is a national and ethnic cultural identity. There are many Jews who are agnostics and/or atheist people (like yours truly) who do not believe in a any sort of supernatural deity and lead secular lives free of organized religious observance who are no less Jewish than the most devout adherents of the religion you believe is called Judaism.

        There exists no country of “Jewish” whence Jewish people emerged

        But there certainly was in antiquity a country called the Kingdom of Judah ( Malkhut Yehuda), an area in the Land of Israel, ( Eres Yisra’el), from which the Jewish People (ha Am ha Yehudi) derives its ethnonym, and from where the Jewish People emerged. This name was preserved in the later Roman province of Judea (also known in Hebrew as “Yehuda” and only subsequently named “Syria Palestina”) after the defeat of the Jews in thier homeland by the Romans, as well as the later Persian province of “Yehud Medinata”. The religious practices that westerners have started to call “Judaism” is actually a religion named after a national group, whereas its mutant offspring religions are named after the founding figures or ideas in the religion. However, the fact is that the State of Israel defines its non-Jewish citizens (who of course enjoy all the same rights under the law as their Jewish fellow citizens) bureaucratically as Israeli citizens,designating them in Hebrew by the word “Yisra’elim” that has been understood to be synonymous with Jews (“Yehudim“) for millennia. None of this is evidence of any sort of “religion supremacy,” of course, as all these citizens of the Jewish State of Israel (a secular society), whether they are of Jewish or non-Jewish national and ethnic background, are free to observe any religion or no religion and not compelled to observe any sort of religious law by the State of Israel against their will.

        || … Not only is Israel the nation-state of the Jewish People … ||

        Right: It’s a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        Your assertion does not make it so and you are still failing to provide any evidence of religious law being used as the prime source of civil legislation in Israel, or coerced or compulsory observance of religion, which you would find in a “religion suprema cist” state.

        Only a Zio-supremacist would think that an Israeli state which – among other things – rejects its non-Jewish Israeli refugees and favours non-Israeli Jewish citizens of countries around the world is anything other than a supremacist construct.

        What is a “non-Jewish Israeli refugee” and how are said imaginary people “rejected” by Israel? There are in fact no such things as “Israeli refugees” who are denied citizenship status in Israel, whether they are of Jewish or non-Jewish nationality/ethnic background. (Although there are some Israeli citizens who have successfully (and cynically) obtained asylum status and legal residency outside Israel — in Canada, of all places (nice scam) — but there’s no indication that if they were to return to Israel that they would be denied the same rights they always had. I asked you before if, when you mention “non-Jewish Israeli refugees” if you were referring to the Arabic-speaking non-Jews and their descendants who have adopted a Palestinian national identity. Even if one accepts that such people are in actuality “refugees” (a dubious contention since most have been resettled in other countries for many generations and in many cases have accepted foreign citizneship, which would ) it’s quite clear that said non-Jewish persons are not “Israelis” and never were “Israelis”. On what basis is the Canadian-born grandchild of a teenager who fled to Lebanon from Akko in 1948 war and subsequently immigrated to Montreal with his Lebanese-born wife in the 1960s an “Israeli” or a “refugee”?

        I didn’t bother to read the rest of your (typically) ridiculously long, blather-filled comment, so I have nothing more to add.

        You (typically) didn’t bother to consider any other arguments and you (typically) have done nothing but repeat the same meaningless and ludicrous formulations like “religion supremacist Jewish state” and “expats, immigrants and refugees”. You don’t even know what your own words mean and you don’t even know what you mean by them.

      • Mikhael
        August 24, 2016, 5:18 pm

        Mooser August 22, 2016, 1:37 pm

        ” I didn’t stop being a Jew when I ceased to believe in God or keep Shabbat and kashruth.”

        Oh, this is just great. Now Mondo is letting apostates comment on Judaism.
        Good ol’ “Mikhael”! Doesn’t believe in God or keep Shabbat and kashruth! But don’t, if you know what’s good for you, question the validity of his gets!! And the moving figger having been writ, he moves on.

        The consensus opinion of Jewish religious authorities (not that Jewish religious authorities matter to me as a secular Zionist Jew) is that when a Jew declares non-belief in Torah from Sinai , although this may defined as “apikorsuth” or “kefira” (both of which can be translated as heresy or non-belief/denial of faith) it is not “shmad ” (which is translated as apostasy), and is the category in which Jews who adopt other religions are placed in.

        Nevertheless, non-belief or even apostasy and adoption of another religion does not invalidate a get and according to all halakhic opinion, a Jewish woman still needs a get from an apostate husband. For that matter, even if a married Jewish male gets a sex change operation, and is then baptized and becomes a Catholic nun, according to Jewish religious law, he/she would still be required to give his/her ex-wife a get to divorce, as Judaism disregards baptism as not affecting Jewish status (just as it doesn’t regard a sex change operation as affecting male status).

      • Mooser
        August 24, 2016, 6:26 pm

        “Nevertheless, non-belief or even apostasy and adoption of another religion does not invalidate a get and according to all halakhic opinion”

        (In Church Lady voice) Well, isn’t that conveeeeenient!

        ” as Judaism disregards baptism as not affecting Jewish status (just as it doesn’t regard a sex change operation as affecting male status).”

        Gosh, you have the best of everything in Israel, “Michael”

        Well, really, “Mikhael” does anything express it better than the ye olde Yiddishe folk-song:

        “Them’s that got shall get.
        Them that’s not, shall lose.
        So the Bible says,
        And it still is news!”

      • Mooser
        August 24, 2016, 6:34 pm

        “Michael” does your branch of Judaism believe in reincarnation? Just asking. You seem to be determined to come back as a fish.

      • Mooser
        August 24, 2016, 7:10 pm

        “eljay August 22, 2016, 8:01 am:
        Untie the knot in your panties.”

        “Eljay”, I don’t think that will do any good. As “Mikhael” tells us:

        “Judaism disregards baptism as not affecting Jewish status (just as it doesn’t regard a sex change operation as affecting male status). – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/recent-comments/#sthash.VEE368cU.dpuf

      • eljay
        August 24, 2016, 7:47 pm

        || Mikhael: … [snip a (typically) excessive amount of blather] … You (typically) didn’t bother to consider any other arguments … ||

        I did consider other arguments.

        || … and you (typically) have done nothing but repeat the same meaningless and ludicrous formulations … ||

        As have you, only your meaningless and ludicrous formulations are significantly more verbose.

        || … You don’t even know what your own words mean and you don’t even know what you mean by them. ||

        I know what they mean and what I mean by them. You just don’t like it. :-(

      • Mikhael
        August 25, 2016, 12:34 am

        Mooser August 24, 2016, 6:34 pm
        “Michael” does your branch of Judaism believe in reincarnation? Just asking. You seem to be determined to come back as a fish

        I don’t adhere to any “branch of Judaism” as I am a secular, atheist-leaning (albeit still agnostic) Jew with no particular religious or spiritual inclinations. You suggested that such a declaration would make me an apostate according to Judaism and the validity of the religious bill of divorce I granted my ex-wives should be call into question. I corrected your ignorant assertion and informed you that according to halakhic opinions, an individual Jewish male’s religious belief or lack thereof does not affect the validity of a get or his obligation to grant it to his wife. As two of my ex-wives are observant Jews and wished to be granted a religious divorce, I complied.

        Nevertheless, to answer your insincere question, some streams of Judaism (notably among the Hasidim) teach that reincarnation happens. This of course is almost certainly poppycock, like the idea that there is a omnipresent, omniscient and omnibenevolent deity with agency in human affairs who revealed the law at Sinai and chose the Jewish People to observe that law. My declaration of disbelief in such a deity or the core tenets of what is simplistically referred to as “Judaism” does not make me a non-Jew, however.

      • Mikhael
        August 25, 2016, 1:01 am

        eljay August 24, 2016, 7:47 pm
        || Mikhael: … [snip a (typically) excessive amount of blather] … You (typically) didn’t bother to consider any other arguments … ||

        I did consider other arguments.

        I’m pretty sure you haven’t and if you have, you’ve offered no refutation of them except repeatedly intone a mantra of a state that should treat non-citizens as equally as citizens, which is the only logical conclusion that can be arrived at from your incessant repetition that Israel is at fault for not treating “citizens, expats, refugees and immigrants equally” . You’ve failed to offer any example of any state that treats “expats, refugees and immigrants” who are not citizens on an equal basis under the law with its citizens and you’ve failed to show how Israel does not treat all of its citizens on an equal basis under the law.

        || … and you (typically) have done nothing but repeat the same meaningless and ludicrous formulations … ||

        As have you, only your meaningless and ludicrous formulations are significantly more verbose.

        Whether my comments are verbose or not doesn’t address the validity of their content. And it’s obvious that AI can;t compete with your net prolixity — as of today you’ve racked up an impressive 4,662 comments since 2009 on this funny website as compared to my 400 or so. Where do you find the time?

        || … You don’t even know what your own words mean and you don’t even know what you mean by them. ||

        I know what they mean and what I mean by them. You just don’t like it. :-(

        I guess you’re making up your own definitions for these words that you use then. For example, “non-Jewish Israeli refugees”. You’ve never explained what that is. Can it mean a non-Jew who flees political or some other kind of persecution and becomes an Israeli citizen? In that case such a person becomes an Israeli once he or she gains Israeli citizenship, like the hundreds of non-Jewish Vietnamese “boat people” who received asylum in Israel in the late 1970s and eventually became naturalized Israeli citizens. Upon receiving Israeli citizenship, they became non-Jewish Israelis with all the same rights as other Israeli citizens, thus they became “non-Jewish Israelis”, but their refugee status ceased. So clearly “non-Jewish Israeli refugees” can’t refer to such individuals, can it? The other possibility of what you mean by “non-Jewish Israeli refugees” is that you’re referring to the non-Jewish Arabic-speakers who now assert a Palestinian national identity and live outside the borders of the State of Israel after they or their ancestors fled what became Israel in 1948-1949. In most cases these people cannot and should not be considered refugees, as they have become resettled and in many cases accepted citizenship in third countries, although the refugee status of many of them is perpetuated by organizations like UNRWA. But even if one accepts that the people living in UNRWA camps are “refugees” in what way are they “Israelis” as per your formulation, whether Jewish or non-Jewish? You’ve failed to clarify which group you are referring to by “non-Jewish Israeli refugees” and why, if they are not citizens of the State of Israel, they are owed all the same rights due under Israeli law to citizens (whether Jewish or non-Jewish) of the State of Israel.

      • Annie Robbins
        August 25, 2016, 2:52 am

        Mikhael, when i was in israel in 09 i met a man who was a citizen of israel but he was a refugee from his village. he took me to palestinian land a kibutz had confiscated but it was now in control of the JNF. there was a mosque on it covered w/barbed wire to make sure the palestinian – israel citizens di not come worship there any more. he lives in an unrecognized village. before this trip i (naively) didn’t understand there were people inside israel waiting to return — to their own land. so yeas, there are refugees living in israel as citizens. but they don’t have the same (privilegeG) rights as jews.

      • talknic
        August 25, 2016, 6:17 am

        @ Mikhael August 25, 2016, 1:01 am

        “… you’ve offered no refutation of them except repeatedly intone a mantra of a state that should treat non-citizens as equally as citizens”Your mantra, not eljay

        “… which is the only logical conclusion that can be arrived at from your incessant repetition that Israel is at fault for not treating “citizens, expats, refugees and immigrants equally”

        Word search : “citizens, expats, refugees and immigrants equally” 1 result … your words. Typical Ziopuke tactic. Make something up, falsely attribute it, then base a pathetic nonsensical argument on your fabrication

        “Whether my comments are verbose or not doesn’t address the validity of their content”

        Your comment content has no validity in respect to justifying Israel’s illegal actions in non-Israeli territories held under Military Occupation by Israel.

        “I guess you’re making up your own definitions for these words that you use then. For example, “non-Jewish Israeli refugees”. You’ve never explained what that is. “

        Try the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel non-Jewish Israeli citizens

      • talknic
        August 25, 2016, 6:38 am

        @ Mikhael August 5, 2016, 1:00 am

        digs his cathole deeper

        “There is not one right under Israeli law that Jewish citizens of Israel have that non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have”

        Marriage law. Jewish Israelis can marry a non Israeli and cohabit in Israel. Non-Jewish Israeli Arabs are restricted

        ” And non-Jewish citizens of Israel have more legal rights in Israel than Jewish non-citizens”

        Oh WOW!! Most if not all countries, grant their citizens more rights than they do non-citizens

        “Non-citizens of Israel, especially those who live abroad, Jewish or non-Jewish, do not have the same rights.”

        WOW!! You’re really on a roll now!

        “Now, you will predictably link to the Israeli Declaration of Independence and claim that it grants every non-Jew who fled the former British Mandate of Palestine Israeli citizenship. This is false.”

        Your assumption as to what I will claim is false.

        The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel is quite clearly talking about non-Jewish Israelis

        “We appeal – in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months – to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions”

      • eljay
        August 25, 2016, 7:22 am

        || Mikhael: I’m pretty sure you haven’t and if you have, you’ve offered no refutation of them … ||

        I have offered refutations of other arguments. I may not have offered refutations of all of yours but, quite frankly, you write so much dull blather I don’t bother to read most of it.

        || … except repeatedly intone a mantra of a state that should treat non-citizens as equally as citizens … ||

        Nope, I’ve never said that.

        || … which is the only logical conclusion that can be arrived at … ||

        You’re not very good with logic.

        || … Whether my comments are verbose or not doesn’t address the validity of their content. … ||

        You seem to think that using lots of words makes the content of your comments valid. That’s funny. :-)

        || … I guess you’re making up your own definitions for these words that you use then. For example, “non-Jewish Israeli refugees”. You’ve never explained what that is. … ||

        I didn’t think you were so dense that I had to explain it. A non-Jewish Israeli refugee is a refugee from Israel who is non-Jewish. But I know that you already knew that.

        The rest of your comment is more of your usual blather, so I won’t bother reading all of it or addressing any of it.

        Keep up the good work! :-)

      • eljay
        August 25, 2016, 8:01 am

        || Mooser: “Eljay”, I don’t think that will do any good. As “Mikhael” tells us: “Judaism disregards baptism as not affecting Jewish status (just as it doesn’t regard a sex change operation as affecting male status). ||

        OK, well, if Mike wants to keep his panties in a knot (ouch!), he’s welcome to do so.

      • Mooser
        August 25, 2016, 5:06 pm

        “OK, well, if Mike wants to keep his panties in a knot (ouch!), he’s welcome to do so.”

        The knot in “Mikhaels’s” panties is positively Gordian. And you know what it takes to undo one of those.

      • Mikhael
        August 25, 2016, 11:33 pm

        Annie Robbins August 25, 2016, 2:52 am
        Mikhael, when i was in israel in 09 i met a man who was a citizen of israel but he was a refugee from his village

        If he was a citizen of Israel and lived in Israel, then by definition he is legally not considered a refugee, although he may come under the category of an “internally displaced person”.

        http://www.unrefugees.org/what-is-a-refugee/

        Of course, there were many Jews who had to flee East Jerusalem and what became known as the “West Bank” after it came under the control of Transjordan’s Arab Legion in 1948. Of course once these people became Israeli citizens and were resettled they were no longer “refugees”, even if they had to abandon property and assets during the period from 1949-1967 when the West Bank was under Hashemite control.Of course, Israel is not alone among many countries in nationalizing private property (you’ve heard of eminent domain, haven’t you?), and private Jewish property was also expropriated by the government of Israel as well. Nevertheless, Israel’s Land Acquisition (Validation of Acts and Compensation) Law, 5713-1953 (חוק רכישת מקרקעין אישור פעולות ופיצויים תשי”ג 1953), provided for compensation to be made to Israeli citizens who were private owners of expropriated land at the time of the expropriation.

        he took me to palestinian land a kibutz had confiscated but it was now in control of the JNF.

        Did he say whether if it had been privately owned land or state land prior to its acquisition by the JNF, and if it was privately owned land if the former owners accepted comensation pursuant to the Land Acquisition Act, or did you bother asking him?

        there was a mosque on it covered w/barbed wire to make sure the palestinian – israel citizens di not come worship there any more

        There were synagogues in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem’s Old City that were used as stables and chicken coops by the Jordanians after the Jews were expelled in 1948. Cry me a river. If they want to use the mosque, they must try to come to an arrangement with the current owners of the land.

        he lives in an unrecognized village. before this trip i (naively) didn’t understand there were people inside israel waiting to return — to their own land. so yeas, there are refugees living in israel as citizens. but they don’t have the same (privilegeG) rights as jews.

        There’s no Israeli law that denies non-Jewish citizens any of of the same legal rights that Jewish citizens of Israel have. Israel’s non-Jewish citizens, just like its Jewish citizens, may lease land from the Israel Lands Administration or the JNF. However, Jewish citizens of Israel, just like non-Jewish citizens of Israel, don’t enjoy an automatic right to live on or enter nationalized property just because they are Jewish.

      • Mikhael
        August 26, 2016, 1:57 am

        talknic August 25, 2016, 6:17 am
        @ Mikhael August 25, 2016, 1:01 am

        “… you’ve offered no refutation of them except repeatedly intone a mantra of a state that should treat non-citizens as equally as citizens” Your mantra, not eljay

        Eljay’s mantra. See here:

        http://mondoweiss.net/2015/03/save-israel-now/#comment-754904

        http://mondoweiss.net/2015/03/save-israel-now/#comment-754904

        “… which is the only logical conclusion that can be arrived at from your incessant repetition that Israel is at fault for not treating “citizens, expats, refugees and immigrants equally”

        Word search : “citizens, expats, refugees and immigrants equally” 1 result … your words. Typical Ziopuke tactic. Make something up, falsely attribute it, then base a pathetic nonsensical argument on your fabrication

        Eljay’s words. Littered throughout this funny blog in varying permutations hundreds of times. You don’t know how to do a “word search”. Here are some examples:

        http://mondoweiss.net/profile/eljay/?keyword=citizens%2C+immigrants%2C+expats

        http://mondoweiss.net/profile/eljay/?keyword=immigrants%2C+expats+and+refugees

        http://mondoweiss.net/profile/eljay/?keyword=citizens%2C+immigrants%2C+ex-pats

        “Whether my comments are verbose or not doesn’t address the validity of their content”

        Your comment content has no validity in respect to justifying Israel’s illegal actions in non-Israeli territories held under Military Occupation by Israel

        Try to focus. The current matter being discussed here is the citizenship status of Israeli citizens and the rights that all Israeli citizens (whether said citizens hold Jewish or non-Jewish nationality). It was falsely alleged that non-Jewish citizens of Israel don’t have the same rights under Israeli law as Israeli citizens of Jewish nationality. It was also falsely alleged that non-Jewish foreigners who assert refugee status are “non-Jewish Israeli refugees”, a made-up category.

        The status of the disputed territories that were formerly occupied by the Hashemites after the armistice was signed between Israel and Transjordan in 1949, and which are currently claimed by the Palestinian Authority in their entirety, is not pertinent to this particular discussion. (However, I will say that whatever the contours of the borders of a potential future Palestinian Arab state and the State of Israel may be in a two-state solution, it is clear that the UN-proposed 1947 boundaries for a Jewish state and an Arab state in the former British Mandate of Palestine are null and void.)

        “I guess you’re making up your own definitions for these words that you use then. For example, “non-Jewish Israeli refugees”. You’ve never explained what that is. “

        Try the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel non-Jewish Israeli citizens

        The passage you predictably highlight and cite from the Israeli Declaration of Independence which was promulgated on the 5th of Iyyar, 5708 makes no reference at all to any “non-Jewish Israeli citizens. The clear, unambiguous language of the text refers to an “appeal” to Arab
        inhabitants to participate “on the basis of full and equal citizenship”. The Declaration of Independence, however, was not a legal instrument that governs the acquisition of Israeli citizenship, but only had the legal force and effect of declaring the establishment of the State of Israel and as an independent state by Israel’s then-provisional (look up the word “provisional” when you get the chance) government. The Israeli Nationality Law of 1952, legislated by the third Knesset, covers the eligibility requirements of Israeli citizenship in Section 3 and clearly excludes “Arab inhabitants” who rejected the Declaration’s “appeal” to “preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State”. It did extend Israeli citizenship to non-Jews who could prove that they were legal residents of the Mandatory at the time it expired and who were counted in the 1949 census and legally present in Israel in 1952. A subsequent revision was conducted in the 1980s to include people who weren’t counted in the 1949 census and the law was extended to apply to such individuals.
        http://www.idi.org.il/%D7%A1%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%A4%D7%A8%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%98/%D7%92%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%95%D7%9F-67/%D7%9E%D7%99%D7%94%D7%95-%D7%90%D7%96%D7%A8%D7%97-%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A9%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%9C/

      • Mikhael
        August 26, 2016, 2:50 am

        talknic August 25, 2016, 6:38 am
        @ Mikhael August 5, 2016, 1:00 am

        digs his cathole deeper

        “There is not one right under Israeli law that Jewish citizens of Israel have that non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have”

        Marriage law. Jewish Israelis can marry a non Israeli and cohabit in Israel. Non-Jewish Israeli Arabs are restricted

        Israeli Arabs (who of course by definition are non-Jews, therefore it’s superfluous for you to write “non-Jewish Israeli Arabs”) can marry non-Israeli citizens and cohabit with their non-Israeli spouse in Israel. All Israeli citizens are restricted from marrying and cohabiting in Israel with foreigners who are citizens of certain designated states that are either in a technical state of war with Israel or known to be state sponsors of terror. This list includes Iraq, Syria Afghanistan and Sudan, as well as the Palestinian Authority, which of course is not yet a state. This restriction applies to all Israeli citizens, whether these citizens are of Jewish nationality, Arab nationality (which of course by definition denotes people who are not of Jewish nationality) or Israeli citizens of any other minority nationality (e.g., the Armenian community long resident in Israel and East Jerusalem, many of whom hold Israeli citizenship, or foreign-born non-Jews who become naturalized Israeli citizens). Of course, under Israeli law, there are no restrictions on any Israeli citizens (whether of Jewish nationality, Arab nationality or other nationality) marrying and cohabiting in Israel with non-Jewish and non-Israeli citizens of Arab countries that are not in a state of war with Israel, e.g., Egypt. However, although Egypt is technically at peace with Israel, it has a law that can strip Egyptian citizenship from any Egyptian citizen who marries an Israeli citizen. In a truly discriminatory fashion, the Egyptian law takes into account whether the Egyptian citizen married an Israeli Jew or an Israeli Arab — at first any marriage of an Egyptian to any Israeli citizen was potential grounds for loss of Israeli citizenship, after protests that many of these marriages involved Egyptian Muslims married to Israeli citizen non-Jews rather than the accursed Zionist Israeli Jews, it was decided by the Egyptian High Court that the Interior Ministry could review how unpatriotic the marriages were on a case-by-case basis. But it’s all good because Israel is at peace with Egypt.

        http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2010/06/201065162218512205.html
        http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Egypt-restricts-marriage-to-Israelis

        http://www.bbc.com/news/10247437

        Oh WOW!! Most if not all countries, grant their citizens more rights than they do non-citizens

        “Non-citizens of Israel, especially those who live abroad, Jewish or non-Jewish, do not have the same rights.”

        But a certain commenter here frequently and explicitly asserts that Israel should be a “state of and for all of its Israeli citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally” without regard to whether “immigrants, expats and refugees” are citizens of Israel or not. He’s also subsequently denied that this statement implies that non-citizens of Israel who he deems to be “immigrants, expats and refugees” are due all the rights and protections of citizens of Israel.

        “Now, you will predictably link to the Israeli Declaration of Independence and claim that it grants every non-Jew who fled the former British Mandate of Palestine Israeli citizenship. This is false.”

        Your assumption as to what I will claim is false.

        You quite predictably linked to the Israeli Declaration of Independence and you quite predictably misinterpreted its plain language and falsely asserted that the text grants Israeli citizenship to millions of foreign Arabs who claim to be refugees or descendants of refugees.

        The Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel is quite clearly talking about non-Jewish Israelis

        It’s quite clear that you arrive at conclusions not supported by the text that you append.

    • inbound39
      August 4, 2016, 7:44 am

      No point using camera.org as a reference. That site is run by Eli Hertz who is a zionist himself and former IDF and his staff were caught manipulating and altering posts about Israel on Wikipedia to read more like the zionist view of Israeli History. Camera. org itself is know also for posting misleading articles made up of statements taken out of context and cobbled together to also paint a picture of the zionist view of Israeli history. In a nutshell Camera.org is not a reputable source for anything other than hasbara.

    • Emory Riddle
      August 4, 2016, 12:21 pm

      Of course Zionism is racism. Of course Israel law is discriminatory.

      How can anyone deny this? I don’t get it. I understand the power of a lifetime of conditioning but aren’t some things just so obvious that those subject to this conditioning can’t help but see the truth?

      I guess not.

  3. Ossinev
    August 3, 2016, 3:00 pm

    And this is the creepy repulsive QuasiNazi who Hillary Clinton will invite to Washington in her first month if elected President. Proof that compulsive liars are attracted to each other?

    BOYCOTT UGLY APARTHEID ISRAEL
    SUPPORT BDS
    TELL YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS ABOUT BDS

    QUESTION YOUR POLITICAL REPRESENTATIVES ABOUT ISRAELI BREACHES OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND YOUR COUNTRY`S SUPPORT FOR A STATE WHICH DEFIES INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IS IN BREACH OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS

    POST THE TRUTH ABOUT ISRAELI “DEMOCRACY” ON SOCIAL MEDIA

    WRITE TO YOUR MSM NEWSPAPERS HIGHLIGHTING THE DAILY BRUTALITY AND OPPRESSION WHICH THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE ARE BEING SUBJECTED TO

  4. xanadou
    August 3, 2016, 6:34 pm

    “Was it meant as an epic parody or an insult to his audience’s intelligence? It was hard to tell.”

    Not hard at all. What else could one possibly expect from the parody of a PM who cannot grasp the concept of basic diplomacy and statesmanship.

    As for JC’s second suggestion — considering netanyahoo’s sadistic papa, it would appear that Jr. is projecting the dead man’s contempt for humanity and his own spawn. There is also netanyahoo’s earlier cringe-worthy performance at the UN with the drawing of a bomb.

    This silly man is either exhibiting signs of creeping senile dementia or is unhinged and, considering his position, should seek professional help. Stat.

  5. JoeSmack
    August 3, 2016, 8:27 pm

    Why did he need to remind Israeli Arabs that 20% of Israel is Arab? And why’d he need to do that in English?

    He not only erased the millions of “Arabs” i.e. Palestinians that have been banished to the hell that is the refugee camps, he has millions more under military occupation. The only “Arabs” that appear to matter are the ones who have been granted the illusion of citizenship, and Mr. Netanyahu managed to whitewash the sheer brutality of the police services against them while audaciously suggesting that the real issue is not enough stormtroopers. Good riddance!

    • Mr.T
      August 4, 2016, 10:31 am

      “He not only erased the millions of ‘Arabs’ i.e. Palestinians that have been banished to the hell that is the refugee camps, he has millions more under military occupation.”

      Of course. The purpose of employing tokenism is to distract from reality.

  6. JoeSmack
    August 3, 2016, 8:30 pm

    Also, not completely sure but I think the three words of Arabic at the beginning are wrong. I think he is trying to say “Dear Arab citizens,” but he said “Citizenship of the Arabs” and then a non-existent word. Again, not sure because I’m not an Arabic pro but then again I’m not making propaganda videos to justify subjugating them.

  7. Atlantaiconoclast
    August 4, 2016, 12:15 am

    Has Mondoweiss ever discussed two state condominialism? For those who don’t know, here is a link to an article about it in Tikkun: https://www.tikkun.org/fmd/files/Nieli_full_transcript_for_Web.pdf

    On the surface, this “solution” seems impossible, but if you examine Nieli’s idea, you may come to see it as a logical and creative approach to ending the conflict. It is certainly not the standard two state “solution,” but still honors the national aspirations of both peoples.

    While we might want Jews and Palestinians to live together in perfect harmony, singing Koom Bay Yah, how likely is that to happen? Jews and Palestinians who prefer the company of “their own” should have peaceful and voluntary ways to enjoy freedom of association. Two state condominialism just might be the answer.

    • RoHa
      August 4, 2016, 1:31 am

      Interesting idea, and worth thinking about. At the moment the most likely solutions involve either the Israeli Jews driving out or killing all the Arabs, or the Arabs driving out or killing all the Israeli Jews, with the former being more probable in the short term.

      I’m a bit puzzled by his requirement that the Palestinian State be always so militarily weak that it poses no threat to Israel. He says ” Since the Palestinian state, by treaty obligation, will have a restricted military, and will implicitly be protected by the state of Israel from invasion from hostile outside powers” but says nothing about protecting the Palestinian State from Israel.

      • Mr.T
        August 4, 2016, 10:35 am

        “but says nothing about protecting the Palestinian State from Israel.”

        Exactly right. All of these two-state final solutions to the Palestinian question are designed merely to build the prison in which the Israelis plan to house their captives. Nothing more. Anything short of either (1) one-state, full political freedom for all or (2) two wholly separate states on the Green line with 100% autonomy in all things is Israeli duplicity.

    • silamcuz
      August 4, 2016, 8:41 am

      That solution is, if you excuse my language, bullshit.

      It is certainly not the standard two state “solution,” but still honors the national aspirations of both peoples.

      Herein lies the fundamental flaw of such thinking. There no “both peoples”. The Palestinian people already encompasses a diverse set of discrete groups that lived on the land since it was first settled, and this includes Jews, among many others.

      Israeli Jews refers to a disparate set of peoples, originating from various locations within and outside of the Levant with almost no shared national history, for example Ethiopian Jews and Russian Jews. They are only there in Palestine because of the Zionist political scheme developed in Europe as part of the Westphalian nation-state ideology and European colonialism of West Asia and (North) Africa.

      The later group has no right for any form of separate national aspiration in Palestine, at least not in the same legitimacy as the former. What they can aspire to instead, is to add themselves into the pre-existing fabric of Palestinian society, and peacefully assimilate into the culture and national identity that is already there.

      • Mikhael
        August 7, 2016, 3:11 am

        silamcuz August 4, 2016, 8:41 am
        ” The Palestinian people already encompasses a diverse set of discrete groups that lived on the land since it was first settled, and this includes Jews, among many others.

        Jews have never regareded themselves as part of any “Palestinian People” . Some Jews, including some still alive today, formerly held between 1925-1948 Palestinian citizenship in the British Mandate of Palestine, a defunct colonial entity,, and thus were technically “Palestinian Jews.” Such people include some of my aunts and uncles (as well as my late father) who were born in the Mandate and thus acquired Palestinian citizenship at birth. Prior to 1925, however, there were no Palestinian Jews. My father’s parents, born like my father, aunts and uncles in Jerusalem, only became Palestinians in 1925. Prior to that my grandparents were Ottoman citizens, although their family had lived in the territory that officially became “Palestine” for generations, we never had any “Palestinians” in the family until 1925. After May 1948, all of my father’s family became Israeli and pernanently gave up “Palestinian” status.

        Israeli Jews refers to a disparate set of peoples, originating from various locations within and outside of the Levant with almost no shared national history, for example Ethiopian Jews and Russian Jews

        All Jews have a shared national history. “Russian” Jews, in fact, were never officially designated as “Russians” under Czarist and Soviet governments, but had a designated nationality of “Yevrei” — Jews.

        the later group has no right for any form of separate national aspiration in Palestine, at least not in the same legitimacy as the former. What they can aspire to instead, is to add themselves into the pre-existing fabric of Palestinian society, and peacefully assimilate into the culture and national identity that is already there

        Hebrew-speaking Israeli Jews have their own national culture and will continue to organize themselves as a political unit in their own Jewish nation-state, which guarantees rights to non-Jewish national minorities. The Arabic-speaking non-Jews who have recently adopted and now assert a Palestinian national identity are entitled to national self-determination in their own state entity next to but not in place of Israel. The contours of the borders between that yet-to-be established entity and the Jewish state of Israel are yet to be determined.

    • Mooser
      August 4, 2016, 4:03 pm

      “Two state condominialism just might be the answer.”

      Which would leave the US, or whoever brokered and financed the condo, propping up Israel, and probably long after it may have collapsed on its own.
      I say: Nothing must ever be allowed to block Israel from shrinking to its destined size.

    • Annie Robbins
      August 4, 2016, 4:39 pm

      i don’t trust it because it leaves all the settlements in place w/their own policing, huge tracts of palestine’s hilltops looking down and dominating palestinian villages – prime real estate covered with settlements. how is this fair? and they police themselves? sorry, not trusting it. and it leaves israel to man the outside borders of the palestinian state? how is this fair?

      • silamcuz
        August 4, 2016, 10:34 pm

        Exactly, it’s like white people saying America is not like Israel just because the law states that all citizens are equal. But all the prime real estate of the country are owned by whites, and whites own a vast bulk of the material wealth of the country from buildings to roads to farms to industry. Blacks and natives on the other hand are left fighting for crumbs, with almost no hope of achieving economic parity despite their hard work and struggles for financial independence.

        This is why reparations is a cause we must pursuit in order to enact justice for the natives and blacks of America, as well as Palestinians in Palestine. Some form of nationalisation must take place followed by the redistribution of wealth on a federal level. In America, the legal framework and institutional infrastructure for such endeavor is already in place, thanks to the lifetime of struggles and sacrifices of innumerable progressives and social justice activists in shaping the country since its conception.

        So in a way, America is like an imperfect implementation of a one-state policy for a diverse group of citizenry. Sure legally speaking it’s one person, one vote and everyone is equal under the law. But in practice it is still a highly unequal country that privileges one sector of the population by oppressing the others. I wonder how would a two-state policy would have looked like in America?

  8. RoHa
    August 4, 2016, 12:29 am

    A bit of Israeli goodwill here.

    • Marnie
      August 4, 2016, 5:08 am

      Armed soldier/police vs 8-10 year old girl. Homocidal cowards and thieves, watching over their shoulders the whole time knowing that this was nothing but overlord cruelty with the kosher approval of the chief rabbit.

      • Mooser
        August 4, 2016, 5:15 pm

        All the have to do is let thePalestinians know the IDF follows “Qasim’s Conventions” strictly.

    • talknic
      August 4, 2016, 5:16 am

      What I think of that brave soldier is simply unpublishable

      • RoHa
        August 4, 2016, 5:24 am

        Yep. That girl was at least eight, and she was armed with a bike. And yet he did not quail or falter in his duty. Such heroism!

        The Israel supporters on MW must be bursting with pride.

      • a blah chick
        August 4, 2016, 8:06 am

        The hasbarists were all over that. They accused that little girl and her family of setting up that poor, innocent Border policeman. But reality turned on them when he got suspended. Haven’t heard how that fits into their pallywood nonsense.

  9. Ossinev
    August 4, 2016, 7:16 am

    @JoeSmack
    “Why did he need to remind Israeli Arabs that 20% of Israel is Arab? And why’d he need to do that in English?”

    Interestingly and coincidentally Mark Reguritev , the Yahoo`s pet wallaby now JSILi Ambassador to London posted a letter in the UK times yesterday. I quote in full:
    “Further to Ben Macintyre`s article (July 29) the 1917 Balfour declaration speaks of a”national home for the Jewish people” while calling for the protection of the “civil and religious rights” of the Arab population.
    Israel has honoured (sic) the spirit of the the declaration:ARAB ISRAELIS ENJOY THE FRUITS OF A PLURALISTIC LIBERAL DEMOCRACY :meanwhile , Palestinian national aspirations have been thwarted not by the Zionists , who were ready for a fair compromise but by their own successive leaderships whose desire to to destroy the Jewish national home far outweighed their commitment to achieving independence for their people. Israel remains ready for a just and secure peace based on the principle of two states for two peoples and calls for the immediate resumption of peace talks without preconditions”

    How jolly nice of Mr Balfour,a SCOTTISH BRITON to grant Arab lands to a hotch potch bunch of foreigners,BTW completly ignoring the Anglo- Arab Treaty of 1915 guaranteeing the whole of Palestine as an Arab state to the Arab population in return for Arab support against the Turks (fully honoured by the Arabs).

    And how jolly nice of Mr Regurgitev , an AUSTRALIAN , to remind the NATIVE Arabs in JSIL that they are enjoying the fruits (FFS!) of a ” pluralistic liberal democracy”. (double FFS!) in their own country.

    He makes this JSIL place sound great. It is tempting to consider moving there to enjoy the aforementioned fruits. If an Aussie can do why not a Brit. Oh wait a minute I forgot silly me I am not Jewish and only Jews (preferably white Anglo-Saxon/Aryan skinned types) can add to the pluralisation.

  10. Rashers2
    August 6, 2016, 6:31 am

    Mayor Moti Dotan’s comments, “I don’t want them at my [swimming] pools. Their culture of cleanliness isn’t the same as ours. Why is that racist?”, which speak volumes more about Israeli society than does Mileikowsky’s fatuous, verbal horse manure, seem to have drawn less attention from the esteemed readership than the presence/absence of religious symbols on nations’ flags (which I can’t see mentioned at all in Mr. Cook’s “National” Article).
    I have no intention of getting into a debate with the Hasbarim (or any others) who frequent this site on the respective merits of the prescribed ablutionary rituals of Islam and Judaism except to observe that the statement strikes me (as someone living for the past nine years in a Muslim society) to be as preposterous as it is overtly racist in character. Sadly, Dotan’s view and the system which gave birth to his belief that he had the right publicly to express it will doubtless resonate with the approx. 80% of his constituency who are not Arab.
    What should be really shocking, however, it that anyone holding or pretending to public office in a “pluralist, liberal democracy” such as that which Lyin’ Regev plucks from his parallel Zio-verse, would even consider uttering Dotan’s words. “At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” Like the original questioner, Chief Counsel Welch, we already know the answer.

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