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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
Talk about the Liberty is verboten and Witty has been banned?!? I've only been absent for a month or so - sounds like its been an eventful month.
Also sounds a lot like the rednecks around my part of the world who insist that indigenous people are happy their land was colonized because now they have technology and brick houses to live in. Small minded colonial wankers can be found all over the globe unfortunately.
When did Blumenthal register as solely a participant for a conference with the intention of attending as a journalist?
I'm sure Philip et al are peeing in their pants in fear that someone who has consistently proven they are either a liar or woefully ill informed and incapable of basic research (see your assertions re UK and others immigration policies) might write some slag piece on MW. Ego much?
Unless the point he's making is "I'm too stupid/lazy/illiterate to read and understand instructions" he failed.
So one movie makes a point? There are many many more movie/TV shows that portray that war as just, the soldiers as well intentioned with perhaps just one or two "bad eggs". When the US fully compensates Vietnam for the horrors it rained upon it then maybe one could advance the argument that the lessons there had been learnt, perhaps not ploughing in to more non defensive war while pretending the victims will greet you as liberators would also help. Maybe an apology to the Vietnamese people.
Seriously you think Platoon demonstrates that the US has atoned on this front?
Americans have realized that what they did in Vietnam was an unprovoked war crime? Really? You'd never guess by the reams of TV/film glorification of that crime or the fact that despite compensating US soldiers for Agent Orange effects they still havent compensated the nation it was dumped on destroying two thirds of the vegetation and leaving a legacy of genetic disorders that persists to this day.
As for Cuba, the continuing trade/travel ban, the protection of terrorists who attempt to harm Cuba and the many many attempts on Castro's life would suggest that there's still some acknowledgement of past crimes required there too.
Simply ask the hypothetical question which country you would support if both were at war with each other, then you know which country you place “first”.
What if your answer is that you wouldn't support either of them given that the vast majority of wars are fought for economic reasons that never help the working class? Or if you really believed in the ostensible reasons given for the war, what if your answer was that it would depend on the circumstances? If Australia started putting people in concentration camps and the UK declared war I'd support the UK, if it was the other way around I'd support Australia. What does this say about who I place "first"?
The is a middle ground between loving the term and using it and wanting it banished (has anyone here suggested it shouldn't be used? I don't think they have but may have missed it). You can be of the view that a term/argument/campaign etc is problematic or not the best strategically (what I read as the point of this piece) without any suggestion at all that it should be banned or substituted. Agree that there's no euphemism for injustice which is why I prefer concentrating on the injustice of the situation and not on whether or not American interests are being served. Admittedly I'm not trying to convince Americans so don't have a dog in this fight but it seems an entirely pointless fight from here in the cheap seats.
But they also know their polity has been 100% bought and sold, they know millions live in poverty while billion dollar wars are fought, they know they work 2 jobs and still live in a trailer, they know they can't afford asthma medications for their kids. Even the self interest thing doesn't seem to have energized the 99% all that much. I sometimes wonder if the 1% have managed to spike the entire nations drinking water with Valium.
Americans gain every day by the exploitation of the nations most immigrants are coming from, and have been doing so for a few generations now, it's a bit much to want to keep those benefits while barring the door for the tiny minority who attempt to go to the US.
Personally some of my giving is local but as I live in a first world country where no-one starves to death or is imprisoned without trial or tortured, the majority goes elsewhere. I see absolutely no reason to care about person X over person Y or why I should have some hierarchy of loyalty to them just because of the accident of fate that has us citizens of the same country which only exists because of colonization and/or some rich old white guys drew the line of the map there instead of there.
Completely agree stopaipac. I find the loyalty/dual citizenship thing odd for two reasons, one because my plurality of citizenship has not caused any harm to the nation I live in. More importantly because I loathe nationalism. Just because something is "good" for your country doesn't mean it should be supported. Australia's colonialisation of Papua was a boon to this economy but it was not in any way something I would ever have supported (it ended several years before I got here). As pointed out above most of America's foreign adventures have been good for American interests but they were still wrong. I get the reason for wanting to make this a "what is good for America" conversation, presumably people think that's the way to sway US public opinion (which is a pret depressing assessment of American values) but there's a nasty concomitant to this line of argument. If something vile *is* good for America, what then? I much prefer the what's good for human dignity, safety and health in general line.
Probably when activists there feel they've done enough groundwork for it to actually pass. 101 of campaigning. Have to admit, I share eGuard's curiousity about the point of your posts.
Sadly however most Australians will continue supporting sending our troops to die in offensive (in both meanings of the word) wars Americans start in the deluded notion that if needed the US would protect us. Given the only nation with even a remote possibility of attacking us in the next century is China, I think we'd be on our own. As you say it's $ not loyalty and the Chinese have it over us in spades on that score. We could have a Tiananmen Square moment on Swanston St and the US at best would make quiet murmurs about "minimizing casualties" and leave us to be bulldozed. Sucks being a poodle state.
As Australia has now unquestioningly followed the US into 3 pointless immoral wars when do we get our 3 billion a year?
Gaza is not occupied?
Why did I need the permission of Israel to exit at Erez and enter Gaza? I have travelled in every continent except Antarctica and I have NEVER before or since required the permission of the state I'm LEAVING to enter another.
Why do you have to be very careful not to wander within 300-500 meters of the Gaza border (on the GAZAN side) so as not to be shot by Israeli snipers?
Why can't people in Gaza build any structures or plant any crops within that arbitrarily imposed buffer zones because if they do the tanks roll back in an demolish them?
Why does Israel think they have the right to prevent Gazan access to their own territorial waters?
I can't be the only one tired of the lectures from BIOC. What makes you think that reading this blog is all anyone does? How does talking about something prove that that is all you do? As for resolutions to boycott, it is counter productive to put up resolutions that will fail, the groundwork needs to be done first. Here in Oz almost every union has passed some form of boycott resolution with many going the full BDS route (mostly relevant in the divestment column as unions aren't really big purchasers of soda streams or Strauss group food). So have church/religious bodies. Those who advance resolutions without doing the grassroots campaigning FAIL. How many resolutions have you successfully been instrumental in passing BIOC?
Based on previous form? even they probably know that "he was protecting terrorist dirt" or "there was a tunnel under the dirt" wont fly this time and will have to rely on "no-one forced him to stand in front of a tractor, he should have moved" and the always popular victim switcheroo "standing in front of soldiers when they ask you to move is a violent act".
It's not just an analogy. Apartheid does not just refer to the system of minority control in South Africa, it is a crime under international law. One which Israel is demonstrably committing.
My government doesnt approve of every bit of killing and torture carried out by Assad's regime, they don't take sponsored PR visits to Damascus, they dont insult and abuse us when we protest at various murdering regimes embassies. So those of us who care about human rights feel the need to fill in the gaps of their concern and condemnation. BTW Think the loathing is pretty roundly reciprocated.
I think this is a bad idea for all the reasons well expressed by others already, particularly the issue of people beginning to self censor and a consequent narrowing of discourse here.
I'm also dubious the holocaust/nakba denial rule will be applied equally. That Werdine's screed is still visible doesn't engender confidence.
That said its not my sandpit and it's not censorship for private owners to set their own rules, I'm a free speech/best disinfectant is sunlight junkie but just because I fully support your right to say something doesn't mean I have to listen to it my house.
Women in their mid 40s *can* be attractive...phew I guess I don't have to hide my shameful face under a rock in ten years time.
This comment is way too lowbrow for MW but I can't help myself and there's not much point saying to anyone here (we tend to ignore US presidential races until the challenger is decided) - how on earth did Gingrich managed to bag a single wife let alone be on his third, he looks like someone engineered him from a blend of DNA somehow extracted from the Muppets' Statler & Waldorf
Pushing the proverbial uphill trying to base any argument on religious texts. The NT is riddled with contradictions, it's possible to justify pretty much any stance by cherry picking and impossible to denounce anything because for every passage banging on about peace and love there's another full of fire and brimstone for anyone who displeases God. Basing any stance on modern political issues on a text written by people who thought the earth was flat and edited, re-edited, translated and retranslated over the years for political expediency is lunacy. I understand the temptation to do so in a nation so bizarrely (for the developed world) attached to the Bible but it simply gives legitimacy to the notion that someone's interpretation of a myth is a good basis to work from.
Wow that's some list, you expect the rampant hatred of Arabs and Muslims but the equally rampant wider cast racism, misogyny and homophobia was a classy touch. Can't say much for their research methods though, they have 2 of my friends listed as the wrong gender (and these are hardly people in hiding) 1 has a completely wrong photo (all the bio is correct so it's definitely him they're getting at) and another was listed as living in a country that to my knowledge she's never even set foot in. That was just in the first half of the alphabet and only skimming looking for specific people. Nit picking about accuracy aside, well done Masada for compiling such an extensive Righteous Jews list, may it be inscribed on a monument some day as a testament to their decency and bravery.
So Sand *doesnt* say what Blake claims but at the same time makes a valiant attempt to do just that. Get some rest, your Hasbara is getting increasingly sloppy.
Can I ask where you live Winnica because you seem to claim a grasp of the feelings of people in a large number of nations which would be quite an achievement. You have also been proven woefully wrong on issues of UK immigration and once again are pontificating on that group of countries so are you a UK citizen who is ignorant of your own immigration laws or are you just using your special diving powers to judge that all Jews there don't really feel at home?
it's surprising that a few Mondoweiss readers are trying to spin Adler’s words to reduce their toxicity.
No whats surprising is that you think its fair to characterise a few people who can see that Adler expressly did not call for an assassination as an attempt to spin his words to render them less toxic. Did ANYONE say they weren't toxic?
Why are you trying to do that?
oh I dunno, maybe because its a discussion thread and we disagree with you? You know the same reason you're insisting on your own interpretation here (albeit without having to respond to sneering accusation of reading difficulties and insinuation of nefarious motives)
Do you have a reading comprehension problem?
Given you appear to think saying X has probably considered doing Y makes one agree with the action of Y which is patently false I'm not sure that's a particularly stone you should be throwing.
Do you know nothing about the Kahanist culture in which Adler is apparently embedded?
Wouldn't call myself an expert but would experiencing it up close and personal in Hebron be enough for you?
Accidents happen all the time, even to members of foreign governments.
Not sure anyone has made excuses of any sort, but would you *really* claim that someone who wrote about some right wing militia nuts having pondered assassination of the President had *themselves* advocated that action be taken?
Pointing out that he did not say Israel SHOULD assassinate Obama has nothing to do with being left or right leaning politically. I fit most comfortably within an anarcho-syndicalism framework, not even remotely right wing, but can still read what was *actually* written. You can acknowledge that had any Muslim or Arab said this they would likely be in custody without wanting that kind of Orwellian draconian response applied to ANYONE.
Of course killing someone is a crime in most countries, doesn't mean governments don't have plans to do it, and occasionally actually do it. Spookland tends to involve a fair bit of ignoring the law.
But he didn't *call* for the President to be assassinated, he wrote that within inner circles it would have been discussed. ALL nations have plans covering all sorts of scenarios, even those that are very very unlikely to ever come to pass. Despite the US polity laboring under the Zionist yoke, I guarantee there are plans somewhere that detail options for the US assassination of Israeli figures and military strikes against Israel. Agree that this would be taken FAR more seriously we're it said by an Arab or Muslim but it's not absolving Adler to point out that HE personally did not say the President SHOULD be assassinated. I can't see that he committed any more of a crime than I would had I said that certain nutty militia groups in the US have probably mulled over the same scenario.
It may be of interest to you to know that the Israelis took responsibility for the attack moments after it occured, offered medical attention to the survivors, apologized to the United States government, and paid some $12-13 million in damages to the government, Liberty survivors, and the families of those who were killed.
Without buying into the nonsense argument that the attack on the Liberty was a mistake, it grates so much that Israeli apologists seem to believe providing medical care to people who were not a threat when Israel attacked them is something noble.
Like RoHa I'm a dual citizen, one of them is British. Your assertion is 100% bull. That you didn't bother linking to said article makes the cynical and uncharitable part of me (admittedly it has a controlling share) think you know that too.
Don't know about that seafoid, nation wide institutionalised bigotry and hatred has been pulled off many times in several English speaking countries.
Normally states tend to confine their infrastructure projects to areas within their borders. Of course Israel refuses to even define it's borders and there's no normalcy to be found in an Apartheid state.
I go with 'crime of Apartheid' to overcome those useless arguments. Calling it Apartheid-like opens up wiggle room. If you use the crime of apartheid you negate discussion of South Africa and focus on the crime - the definition of which is impossible to (truthfully) deny applies to Israel regardless of whether certain features of S.A apartheid were/are copied.
Israel doesn't need Palestinian resources cause they're such a shining economic example, one wonders why they keep stealing from Palestininians? Irredeemable assholery? What say you eee? Much like your claim that Israel doesn't need US money you can't have it both ways. Either Israel *needs* to steal resources from those it oppresses & to leech from US taxpayers OR Israel takes food from the mouths of others that it does not need. Which is it?
Proudzionist777 - speak to your doctor about getting help for those auditory hallucinations you seem to regularly be responding to in your posts here. Seroquel might be in order.
When the sin in question is drum beating for an illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands if not millions of people that posed absolutely no threat whatsoever to me & mine, I'm pretty comfortable casting stones.
There were no 'terrorists' fighting the US in Iraq in the same way there are no 'terrorists' fighting the IOF in the OPT. There are people exercising their legal right to oppose the occupation of their land.
Yes I blame the 'kid'. That doesn't mean I absolve those who sat in luxury while sending others to die or those who make millions from war & destruction. They are also obviously culpable. However if you don't know at 18 that bombarding a civilian town in a nation that posed no threat to yours is 100% wrong then you're probably a sociopath.
Yes plenty join for college/health insurance but you know what LOTS of settlers only live in the West Bank because of financial imperatives, the fundie nut bag Kahanists are a minority. Again we give no free pass to them because they simply wanted to be able to house their family.
I have never seen anyone here defend Israeli actions in this way and the US has a 100 year record of this shit. I understand people who have served in the US army feel an emotional response to this criticism but so do IDF and settlers and all their ex soldiers who became politicians. If the army that trashed Fallujah was Spanish I doubt anyone here would have any hesitation in saying this but it always hard when you have to look into a mirror.
No-one here gives a pass to the illegal actions of Israeli soldiers while they prosecute their illegal invasion & occupation, I really don't understand why it should be different when US soldiers in an entirely voluntary army carry out atrocities when prosecuting *their* illegal invasion & occupation.
Following orders does not and never will cut it.
When Israelis talk about how much their military service wounded them we call it shoot & cry. The American Army is voluntary and hasn't been used in a defensive role for a very very long time (if ever, I'll leave the Pearl Harbour debates for another thread). I personally can't stomach any shoot & cry for US troops anymore than ex IOF.
I'm the same, photos outrage me but they rarely cause me to flinch anymore and it scares me that man's inhumanity to man is like the sun rising in the morning.
Zionism is pretty compatible with the Bible I've read - God says its OK to kill certain unpeople. There's far more of that kind of stuff in the Bible than there is of the turn the other cheek love thy neighbour stuff.
Using ancient morality written by (or copied by - far too many similarities with older god myths) people who believed the earth was flat that has been translated, retranslated and edited for political expediency over the years to base one's actions on is a fruitless endeavour. People with evil intent can find plenty in the Bible (or any other holy book) to justify their actions (god is down with slavery why shouldnt we be - god is down with offering up ones daughter to mass rape why shouldnt we be) and good people do the same.
Religion is utterly irrelevant to people's motivations, it's just used as an excuse (for the bad) and an explanation (for the good) that people were going to do anyway
I have one remaining jar of Nabali olives (the same ones they sell at PalestineOnline) brought back from my trip. They're delicious.
You can order koffiyeh from the Herbawi factory (and a host of other great stuff) from link to PalestineOnlineStore.com
When I came back through the Erez Crossing there was a Palestinian woman who was forced to hand her baby to an Israeli official where he was taken out of sight and through the body scanners without her. Given those machines see everything (while Israelis stand a floor above you and point and laugh) there was no reason the woman could not hold her own child, it was just more of the same routine humiliation, intimidation and cruelty for the pure joy of it. These kinds of actions are the preserve of sociopaths.
Apart from the issues of holding *any* international conference in an Apartheid state, shouldn't a conference about 'The New European Policy for Health' be held in, I dunno, maybe Europe?
Because of there high birthrate the chareidim suffers from a severe housing problem. The only alternative to building more settlements in the west bank is to settle them inside the green line. Charish is not in any “Palestinian area”. It is within Israel proper, just off highway 6, perhaps half an hour away from tel aviv. (the guy claiming charish to be in northern Israel obviously doesn’t have a clue about Israel geography). If building a Jewish town in charish is illegitimate then a can’t think of anywhere else it might be legitimate. Where do you expect young jewish couples to live? Perhaps in the sea
If you can't find somewhere to house your current 5 kids try not having 5 more. As for Harish not being a Palestinian area, you are deliberately obfuscating or you're quite dim. In Melbourne the suburbs of East St Kilda and Caulfield are known to everyone as Jewish areas. Obviously they are ALL Australian areas and not officially or legally designated as suburbs for the Jewish community but if someone tried to build a housing development on Balaclava Rd that was explicitly for Seventh Day Adventists it would not only raise a justified hue and cry it would be ILLEGAL.
"The white majority in the US and Australia is “artificial” because it is the result of ethnic cleansing, discriminatory immigration policies and gerrymandering. Oh wait, no one calls those majorities “artificial” eee(k)
Um what? I won't speak for the US as I've spent limited time there but the fact that Australia's white majority is artificial is explicitly recognized and spoken about. Before almost any public function an acknowledgement is given that the land is Aboriginal land that was never ceded, that it is stolen land. While we have a minority of numpties who you'd likely get on well with who might dispute certain issues around the Stolen Generation or black deaths in custody, NO-ONE in Australia would dispute that the only reason this is a country with a northern European majority is because of invasion & land theft. You'd have to be an utter moron to do so. The same goes for the majority in Israel, sadly however there are MANY Israelis (and Israeli supporters elsewhere) who DO question that patently obvious fact.
What has happened to the people of Hebron is worse than one night of window/business smashing. It is disgusting. The settlers abuse and harass anyone and everyone who isn't on board with their ethnic cleansing. They throw sewage and garbage at children, they've cordoned of whole streets for the sole use of Jews, they spit at people, they assault people and they've been doing it for a LONG time. Settlers in Hebron are vile and that your taxes pay for them to be provided with 3 IOF personnel for every one of them so they can uphold their apartheid should make your blood boil. The fact that you try to downplay the situation says everything that needs saying about you.
Eee's right. I've often wondered why people got so upset over slavery in the US, those slaves were provided with enough food and water to enable them to work and a shack to sleep in by their benevolent owners. Bloody ingrates.
Whereas supporting ethnic cleansing if it's "necessary" is taking the moral high road. How many panes left in your glasshouse Witty?
Only "our" movement? Funny, every SINGLE Palestinian advocacy action I've been involved in has been disrupted by abusive Zionists screaming vile abuse at me. Today we held a speak out in a busy Melbourne shopping strip, we disrupted NO-ONE, we went out of our way to not even obstruct the flow of foot traffic. We held up signs saying Free Palestine, sang a reworked version of Pink Floyd's The Wall (hey Israel, leave those kids alone) and threw in a couple of mic check moments. A Zionist attempted to disguise herself as one of us & held anti-semitic signs to discredit us and a man stood in front of me calling me a fucking bitch. At other actions we've been physically attacked by Zionists (and the Australian Fascist Parties who support them) and had our gear smashed and stolen.
YOU lot do plenty of disrupting.
Wish they'd just drop the flimsy pretense and officially outsource all foreign policy to Israel, it's happening anyway and at least this way you could just have Regev do all the talking and save the money wasted on things like Ms Nulands salary.
"This is not to make a defense for Turkey’s internal policies. Its war on the Kurds and its crackdown on dissenting journalists is to be condemned but that did not bother these seven Jewish members of Congress, or non-Jewish members, when Turkey was kissing Israel’s behind and it doesn’t now. Their primary job in Congress, aside from being re-elected, is to serve Israel and it’s long past time when such individuals need to be publicly targeted as such."
Exactly. It is one thing thing for people who actually give a crap about human rights to unselectively point out Turkey's internal policies, it is beyond hypocrisy for rock solid Zionists to do it.
Seriously Krauss, do some f'ing research. There are SO many basic errors of fact in your post it's embarrassing, cringingly so when you compound your ignorance by insisting upon your errors and claiming others lack credibility.
While I find Kraus attempt to play fair arbiter entirely transparent, I have to (mostly) agree with his views on the increasing oppression in Turkey. Quite apart from the oppression of Kurds, including torture and mass rape, theres the sham trials against half the military and one of the worlds worst records for the intimidation and imprisonment of journalists. While it's not possible to oppose arms sales to Turkey for human rights reasons while *giving* them away to Israel and remain consistent, and Erdogan has lately been saying things I agree with on Israel, I have no allusions that it has anything to do with concern for human rights or international law. The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend.
Get your propaganda right Kraus, in Jordan, Palestinians refugee are not forced to live in tent cities and refused citizenship. That would be Lebanon (and while the camps are crowded, with infrastructure jerry-rigged from mains making it dangerous and unsanitary they are not tent cities). Most Palestinians in Jordan do not live in camps, those that do are there for economic reasons not political ones and they are neighbors there with poor Jordanians. Jordan provides health care and education too. It is hard to take is as anything other than feigned sympathy when you care so little about basic facts.
So 3 billion a year of those those working people's tax dollars flowing to Israel while they're denied any kind of national health isn't an issue?
I'm sure you'd rather it wasnt recognized as an issue RW but I'm sure many working Americans could see better uses for their money.
Exactly, frustrates me no end that many think (or just spin) that it's just a Bibi/Likud problem. It's like the memory of the 60 years before that has been wiped.
Theo, I've been to the West Bank and Gaza and will be back next year as soon as the bank balance allows to work with a village in the West Bank, stuff like human rights reports, escorting kids to school and farmers to their lands as an international presence tends to somewhat (sometimes) lessen the chances of violent attack by the IOF or settlers terrorists. While at home I am active in the BDS campaign and other actions - flash mob against the Apartheid Wall this weekend for anyone in Melbourne - and speak about Palestine at various functions. Many people here have longer 'CVs' than mine, you're barking up the wrong tree here.
Plenty of Palestinians speak Hebrew, so do many anti-Zionist Jews. Hebrew is a language not a problem.
The Australian kid should try to keep his head down too. Don't imagine a little thing like the murder of one our citizens would be enough to remove our government's* head from the fetid bowels of Zionism.
*and the opposition, Zionism and the invasion/occupation of Iraq & Afghanistan being the unholy trifecta of bipartisan feeling down here.
Some day we'll have to. As long as there's no major conflict between our slavish kow towing to US foreign policy and the economic interests of the Chinese then it's steady as she goes but the US Empire is in decline and we'll jump off eventually and hitch our ride to whoever the next big kid on the block is. Our foreign policy still won't be our own and won't be any better, only the victims of it will change.
Not really sure where the idea that Rudd would be better on Palestine comes from. Rudd, whatever his personal views, has always been outwardly pro Zionist, just like any careerist politician. There was a considerable reaction to the flotilla attack, more so than is usually the case in Oz, he couldn't really avoid saying something about it. Rudd was toppled by the mining lobby and the fact that he no factional support. Every Oz PM is a Zionist, even if for no other reason than they know fine well they are simply governors of America's pacific colony. We have NO foreign policy, it is set 100% in Washington. Rudd is actually less sympathetic on Palestine than Gillard is personally (doubt we'll ever see Gillard calling BDS campaigners Blackshirts for example) but their personal views are irrelevant. Until we become an independent nation or the US changes it's stance, Australia's love and support for Israel will continue on it's merry bipartisan way.
There does seem to be a mushrooming of the particularly low rent variety. Crying out for an ignore function.
I understand not wanting to block people from MW no after how base their efforts at Hasbara but it would be REALLY sweet if individual posters could block having to see their drivel. Especially on threads like this one where the junior school have joined in.
Those chants, and much worse, are regularly heard from screaming, red faced Israeli citizens all over the West Bank, and as has been pointed out already, are not unheard of in Israel either.
Is there ANY chance at all that you could post something that isn't riddled with demonstrable untruths?
He's still here, I'll be seeing him on Saturday
Yeah sure you did LLI - you scoured the archives of Le Monde et al going all the way back to 1968 cause they're all on the interwebs dontcha know.
The world has adopted the Palestinian narrative (AKA historical fact)
Rudd isn't even remotely pro Palestinian. He was one of the first politicians to crawl to Max Brenners and to liken BDS activists to Nazis. He has a long Zionist history. His ousting was fear of electoral routing after the Murdoch media & Rinehart & Forrest spent a fortune trashing the super profits tax on mining. Didn't help that he had zero factional support and is a total nightmare to work with.
"potentially grossly anti-semitic"
Potentially? FFS now apologists can use not only the actual slur but also label people as 'potential' bigots? It's like the Zionist version of Calvinist predestination ideology - you are all potential bigots but if you work hard enough and grovel enough you might one day be absolved.
Israeli society not only glorifies terrorists it's builds museums & statues venerating them, names streets after them and elects them to the highest office.
eee you are nothing more than a screeching bigot and I do not understand why you are allowed to pollute this site with your racism.
Having seen close up the results of occupation, oppression and Israeli bombing I do NOT view the entire Israeli society as demented. I guess I'm not a racist bigot simply looking to justify my hatred which was there long before.
Whatever you class the movement as the I find the Tahrir references a huge stretch at best if not outright offensive.
People in Tahrir were fighting a murderous dictator thug who was fond of torturing & imprisoning political activists. There is absolutely no comparison to a protest about middle class living standards. Just in case the usual suspects show up in this thread bleating, I objected just the same when people referred to protests in Spain with Egyptian overtones. Although I never saw Spanish protestors doing themselves, unlike with the J14 protestors.
They're not insane at all. The war cheering knuckle dragging Fox watching bozos may be but the people at the top of the ladder promote war for very sane (though utterly vile) reasons. They stand to make a shitload of money & gain more power out of it. If they were crazy and actually believed their bullshit, Gulf of Tonkin, domino theory, WMD, nuke programs, Al Qaeda etc then they could be (at least a little) absolved of responsibility. They are not.
I don't know anything about this guy, so am only referring to this one issue, but this really impressed me, not only for opposing mindless Islamophobia but for refusing to pussyfoot around. He didn't waffle about people being ill informed, or understandably concerned or any other guff, he called them what they are, crazy & ignorant.
The quote says they have a sense of solidarity with Gaza, not that they were comparable. Being able to comprehend what you read is necessary for responding to it without sounding like a propagandising tool.
The fact that the Australian BDS movement has grown from almost nothing to large (and growing) actions in Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne & Sydney is one of the very few things that give me hope in the political nous of my fellow citizens. The fact that we've been slandered by Kevin Rudd, Ted Baillieu, Michael Danby & Andrew Bolt in recent weeks just makes me smile even more.
Edit clearly didn't work:
Matthew try reading actual studies rather than demonstrably partisan websites ie don't link to a site opposing circumcision but rather to Hofvander's actual work or a reputable journal carrying it. When you don't do that it undermines your credibility as someone who has actually researched anything properly.
Hofvander is a credible researcher, O'Hara is a total and utter hack. Her ONE published study (preliminary only) has a methodology so flawed even a high school student could pick it. She surveyed a tiny number of women after placing an ad in a ANTI-CIRCUMSION newsletter. You dont any selection bias there? The rest of the paper follows the same sad pattern. Her work is utterly laughable.
No Matthew, it's in a category by itself because, like I said, the overwhelming majority if FGM practiced is of a nature that goes FAR beyond removal of the foreskin. The fact that you have ANY sensation and are able to orgasm attests to that.
Before assuming I'm culturally brainwashed to give male circumcision "a free pass" Perhaps you'd like to read what I wrote, which was that I do not support circumcision and think it's obscene.
Also it is nonsense to have sex with 2 guys and put down any difference in sensation to having a foreskin or not, rather than interest in the respective men, even slight differences in length/width, position, general mood at the time, and a host of other reasons.
Seriously dude you have an amazing ability to people who are ON YOUR SIDE on the defensive.
Try searching Hofvander 2002 in PubMed. Also for future reference there's this amazing new fangled tool called Google, it might help you look less like and old fashioned tool.
Nobody makes pro-abortion arguments. No-one encourages people to abort for cultural, religious or tribal reasons. There is absolutely no comparison between a PRO CHOICE argument which understands the difference between a person and a human (a fetus is one but not the other, the woman carry it is both) and an argument against non consensual non necessary amputation.
As an aside, these posts on circumcision, which have nothing whatsoever to do with the Middle East, is only further evidence of the malicious and hateful intent of this blog.
So why insist on reading & posting here? I can't imagine wanting to hang around people I genuinely felt were malicious & hateful. If you really do feel we're all hateful the fact that you continue to stay seems pathological.
I don't agree with circumcision (although comparing it with FGM is a bridge too far the most widely practiced FGM would be the equivalent of cutting your entire penis and testicles off, not the foreskin). It strikes me as utterly bizarre that someone would decide to perform unnecessary surgery on an infant simply because their sky god wants all the foreskins to himself. Or even worse because you want to be "part of the club", it's not as if you all drop your daks to confirm membership. To deliberately hurt a child for these reasons is quite obscene.
That said, I wouldn't think there's any validity to the argument it has any bearing on a women's pleasure. I don't know a single woman who has ever noticed any difference, myself included. At the pertinent time, they're all pretty much the same.
The fines were for the usual crap, trespass/public disorder/obstructing police. The sorts of stuff cops use to arrest people they don't like much. Same stuff they used at the S11 protests years back. BTW there was quite a few more than 500 people there. The arrests swelled the protests significantly, this last action had far more people than the one that the arrests occurred at.
Australian politicians love of Israel (and it's both major parties and a majority of the Greens who are now the third party) is purely and simply and extension of American foreign policy. We have NEVER had an independent foreign policy, for the first 150 years we were a client of the British Empire (Australia entered both world wars the second - literally - the UK did) and since the end of WW2 we have been purely beholden to America. We will continue to fight in Oz but the plain truth is without a change in US policy there are limits to how successful we can be. It's not really about changing the minds of Australian politicians it's about educating the public.
Surprised at the 'low' numbers of cops, the actions we had at Brenners prior to the ones where the arrests occurred had a similar number, also with mounted offics with far less protestors. Can't wait to be back in Oz - have missed too much already!
Don't hope Shingo, organize!
I've often wondered if that's exactly why Brenners & Jericho et al choose them rather than high street shop fronts. They get much more protected from protests that way.
The hold they have is pretty simple, we are a client state of the US, if they stopped supporting Israel 'our' support would dry up overnight.
Shortly after this action our FM felt the need to have a jolly photo op at this Brenners store sipping hot chocolate and likening the protestors to Nazis.
BDS support in Melbourne (at this point at least) comes from non high profile people, so any attempt to pick a few people to target would unlikely to be too successful, the leaders aren't people who have a high profile or social obligations/standing to upkeep. I really can't see a name & shame type campaign getting the Zionists anywhere. They certainly tried it with the Marrickville councillors and they did cop crap from the Murdoch hacks but then again the Murdochcracy had always demonized Greens so even that wasn't overly successful. The faux outrage they pedaled on that just put the spotlight on a campaign that is really still in it's infancy in Oz and brought it more publicity. As I say, bring it on.
Um it's not like we're hiding Mr Harris, if you google BDS & Australia you'll find my name quite easily, my photo is also there. With that information it would take 2 seconds to find out where I work and live.
Go ahead "shame" away, the more publicity for BDS the better.
Thanks for posting this. I watched some of the Oslo memorials. Flowers, speeches about democracy and tolerance and anti Nazi hymns. Not an angry face, or banner demanding the death penalty to be seen.
Imagine what the world would be like if everyone reacted to violence like the Norwegians.
Bullshit. The call to BDS was initiated by Palestinian civil society and western activists act in solidarity. Our protests are more visible because we are unlikely to be skunk watered, gassed, shot with gas canisters, arrested & detained without charge for years for staging them.
When was the last time you went to the West Bank Hophmi? Or spoke to a Palestinian citizen of Israel about the boycott campaign? NEVER that's when.
You are so full of it, I can smell the stench from here.
"Western-led boycott movements like BDS"
How on earth do you support this statement? How exactly is the boycott western led?
Even if you wanted to argue the relative ideologies (I wouldn't obviously but theres a few usual suspects here that do) the fact the the Islamophobes are the ones in positions of power and influence should make that blindingly obvious. Not that logic & rationality are in strong supply these days.