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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
From today's issue of The Onion:
link to theonion.com
I suppose if Palestinians were wailing and sobbing and gnashing their teeth, Rudoren would think that we were overly emotional savages incapable of reigning in our emotions like civilized people, who know innately exactly to what degree emotion is appropriately displayed. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. The plight of the oppressed indigenous person never changes. I don't know why she's wasting her time explaining herself so much; she could save vast acres of time by merely cutting and pasting some passages from any number of European books on the strange ways of the savages in America in the 1600s. It's just the same tired colonialist crap over and over and over again, and swallowing it over and over has become quite the unappetizing ordeal. Did she think for a minute that maybe over-expressing anguish over the loss of a child in a place where many, many people around you have lost a child would be conceived as insensitive or somehow disrespectful to the grief of others? In my culture, you don't make a big display so as not to demean the similar grief of those around you. We are all in it together. We are a grieving people, but also a fighting people, and without the belief that all these children are dying for something, the senselessness and violence of it all will become unbearable. If constantly putting yourself in the place of others isn't human, then I am proud to call myself a savage.
Congratulations on your brand spankin' new degree from Hollywood Upstairs Law College, Fredblogs. I thought your "understanding" of the first amendment was laughable, but it turns out your understanding of immigration law is even more preposterous. Kudos! The only question the U.S. Embassy needs to ask is if an individual is a citizen of the United States. If the answer is yes, the United States is obligated to assist that individual regardless of race or religion. I know that concept must be foreign to a bigot like you.
Fredblogs, you are such an authoritarian dimwit. The whole point of civil disobedience is to be DISOBEDIENT. You protest DESPITE the rules, not within the rules. You speak whenever and wherever the hell you want. If you are arrested, it is all the better. You suffer the consequences in support of your cause. That is what civil disobedience is all about.
You say: The rules are different in the UK, more things are unprotected, but putting on a play in your own venue is still pretty solidly protected from intervention by the government. So your protesters were infringing someone else’s right to speak.
Yes, protected from intervention BY THE GOVERNMENT. The government did not stop Habima from doing or saying anything, as far as I can tell. The right to freedom of speech does not give an individual a cause of action against another individual for the act of interruption. It limits the government's ability to suppress content-based speech. The actors' rights to free speech were in no way violated by anyone.
Iman, arguing with Fredblogs is a gigantic waste of time. It's almost, but not quite, as effective as the peace process. Just look at his argument! He thinks your brother deserved to be shot in the face because if one Palestinian was a terrorist, it is fair to assume that all Palestinians are terrorists. Everyone knows that Palestinians regularly strap themselves up with bombs and fake car accidents to blow up the members of The Most Moral Army In The World. It's just part of our nature. Maybe it's even in our genes. It's best to just murder us all, for safety reasons, of course.
I mean, just read this, "As for shooting him in the head. I don’t know whether that seemed necessary to the guy that did it." Who the hell says things like that??? It almost seems like high farce. Zionists are so utterly and completely out of touch with reality, that they don't even realize how cuckoo they sound to the rest of us. It's like listening to someone trying to explain that the Earth is flat.
I am so sorry about what happened to your brother. I know that nothing will ease the pain of losing him, but I pray that your family will know justice. My heart aches for you and his wife and children.
"LOL. Fredo might not be the smartest Corleone in the family, but his problem is a lack of ethics and morality."
Maybe just the frontal lobe, then? Or a microscope slide containing Fred's tiny, tiny heart? Not that Fredblogs would mind; Dr. Hiss is Jewish after all, and whatever he does, surely it is excusable and for a higher purpose.
I think we can all agree that the only explanation for Fredblogs is that Dr. Hiss removed his brain and buried it.
His children are so beautiful. The picture of him with his youngest daughter breaks my heart into a thousand pieces.
Samuel T. Jackass takes a quick break from his job as an editor at the Ministry of Truth to write:
"I encourage you to open your eyes, your minds and your hearts toward what is TRUE. Not what supports a particular, even twisted, contrived perspective.
This was a stunt, self-promotion and wreaks with the same authenticity of “reality TV shows” featuring Kim Kardashian and Company."
Oh, you are so right and ever so convincing. Since your post wreaks of actual authenticity (or something), I went back and watched the video again and, Samuel T. (for truth?), you are absolutely correct. A truth-seeking person can't decipher anything concrete from that video. I mean, do we even know where this was filmed? Or when? It doesn't look like Palestine or Israel to me. It kind of looks like Rock Springs, Wyoming. And that military truck thing....it doesn't have a Star of David on it or anything as far as I can tell. Doesn't Israel usually plaster all of its weapons and machinery with religious symbols? I think that truck thing must be owned by the Palestinians. Or maybe the Italians. Yep, definitely Italians; it even looks like the Italians sprayed tomato sauce in the faces of the "protesters" at one point in this indecipherable video. I put "protesters" in quotes not because I don't know how to use quotes like someone who shall remain unnamed (let's just call him "Samuel T. Jackass"), but because, well, do we really know if these people are protesting something? Do we even know if they are people? If they are Palestinian, they probably don't even exist. For all we know, they might be Jewish. Maybe they are atheists, and if they are atheists, then can they be Jewish? What does it mean to be Jewish? Oh, Samuel T, this is giving me such a headache! I thought this video was so clear and so simple, and now I am so confused!
Before I even attempt to comprehend the events "documented" in this video, I would like to see the uncut footage, examine the recording device, interview all of the people filmed (unless they are Palestinian, Christian, Muslim, non-Jewish, non-Zionist, non-military, European, American, African, Asian, or some other inherently untrustworthy source), and then run it by His Excellency Michael Oren, the ADL, Netanyahu, the Knesset, AIPAC, the U.S. Congress, and the New York Times for their opinions as to what actually occurred. After that, I'll try to figure out if the Holocaust had anything to do with it. If it still looks like some Israeli police sprayed some Palestinian non-violent protesters at point-blank range in the face with pepper spray after they exhibited courage and humanity, I will send it to you post haste so you can send it down the Memory Hole as quickly as possible. I think all truth-seeking people can agree on this course of action.
Oh, don't worry, poor scared little OlegR! Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and minorities are treated very well there. It's all in the Constitution, right? It also has the most moral army in the world, so if the minority gets uppity, I'm sure they will be treated fairly and with humanity.
Me too, Chaos. I am almost never surprised, but always horrified, disgusted, ashamed, and afraid of what's to come. I feel so useless.
What shocks me is how not shocked I am by those comments. We see this racism and this hate in practice, against Palestinian children, every single day. Why are the words more shocking than the facts? Children imprisoned and tortured, pregnant women and babies shot to death, mothers and babies dying at checkpoints, schools and playgrounds destroyed, bombs and white phosphorous dropped on houses, hospitals, and schools, children prevented from obtaining life-saving medical care, soldiers printing and wearing shirts with targets over women and children on them....the heinous expressions of hatred and racism go on and on and on and on and on and on and ON. What shocks me is not those words on Facebook, but the silence of the world in the face of such horror.
what is really off putting to arab commentators is that this double standard, we must be polite while our whole world is being pounded to bloody dust, is unnoticed or unremarked.
Gamal, you are exactly right.
Thank you for this post, kalithea. You literally made me cry. Sometimes, it is only people like you who give me hope and faith in humanity, and I agree completely with everything that you said. I also agree with your comment below about supporting a member of the tribe versus supporting an outsider. I love this blog, but I have to admit that I do feel like an outsider here. I don't think anyone here does that purposely to Palestinian commenters, but it happens just the same. I think it's probably natural because Palestinians are not the intended audience. It is a little disheartening that most of the comments on this site are in response to articles about the Jewish identity while the daily round-ups on the horrors occurring in Palestine and Israel against Palestinians are often met with silence, but I think that maybe most everyone here feels what I feel reading those, and that is disgust, sadness, horror, and exhaustion. I do agree with you that the best comments are the ones that are passionate. I think it is easier to post on Mondoweiss in a passionate way about what is happening because the level of knowledge of the conflict amongst most commenters is so high. It makes it, for lack of a better word, safer to use a certain vocabulary about what is happening than it is on other sites. I appreciate that, and I would be sad if that changed. I think it is more upsetting to me when people try to be fair and lukewarm about what is happening than when they are passionate one way or the other. There is no fairness here whatsoever, and to speak about the conflict in a fair and balanced way perpetuates the entire Zionist myth of the history of the region and peoples. There is a time to be calm and evenhanded and there is a time to be outraged. Thank you for your outrage. It gives me hope.
Eyad, I am so glad that your son wasn't hurt. My thoughts and my prayers are always with you and with all of the people in Gaza. I don't know if there was any motivation for this other than to kill yet more Palestinians.
eee, you can talk and talk and talk (and talk and talk and TALK) all you want, but everything that comes out of your mouth, no matter its disguise, shows you for what you are: a racist and a supremacist. Even if every Palestinian in the world converted to Judaism and adopted Jewish cultural traditions and values, you would still consider us all to be less human than you, less worthy of rights in your crumbling Israel, and just as far from "chosen" as before the conversion. This is about race and you are nothing more than an average, run-of-the-mill racist, with all of the small-mindedness and lack of intelligence that average, run-of-the-mill racism entails. What I mostly feel for you when I read your posts is pity.
Mooser, you are wonderful. I mean that sincerely.
One of my very first asylum cases was for a Palestinian man who was one of five sons born to a family in the West Bank. The IDF systematically and routinely called in the sons for questioning and viciously tortured each of them, including one brother who had Down's Syndrome, because a member of their family had been mayor of the town. I have handled hundreds of asylum cases from all over the world in the last twelve years since I had that case, and the torture of a young man with Down's Syndrome is still one of the most evil, sadistic examples of torture that I have ever had.
"Where's Obama with a drone missile strike when you need him most?"
Comments like those of Rachel Abrams should never be banned. This pure, unadulterated racism and hate needs to be publicized far and wide for the whole world to see. Abrams and eee and their ilk perform a very valuable service. They expose Zionism for what it truly is.
Speaking of our delightful little eee, when is he going to finally show up on this thread? I can't wait to see how the person who supports the torture of Palestinian children explains this one. I think it will go something like this: Palestinians hate Jews and want to throw them into the sea, so why shouldn't we throw them into the sea first? How is it immoral to torture the children and people who want to kill you and who deny your right to exist? Did you complain when the United States dropped nuclear bombs on Japan? Rachel Abrams's uncle/brother/fifth cousin twice removed/pet hamster knew someone whose daughter/cousin/chihuahua rode a bus in Tel Aviv once, and Palestinians blew up buses during the Second Intifada. Her feelings towards Palestinians are thus understandable and human. If you think she is a racist, you are an anti-Semite. Just you wait until you have to live through an intifada, you silly naive Americans!
End scene.
Chaos, I was literally coming here to ask asherpat if he fell through a portal from another dimension and you totally beat me to it! Great minds think alike, I guess. /high-five.
I can't get enough of it either, Taxi. I think the reason that it is so powerful is the determined look on Tilda's face. She almost looks as if she is daring someone to call her anti-Semitic or to question her political beliefs. I'm not sure why, but somehow I don't think this will harm her career in the least. In fact, maybe I am naive, but I have this feeling that this photo will give other people the courage to do the same.
Me too. She is an amazing actress and human being. That picture made my day.
Annie, I'm not sure if this link will work, but did you see Tilda Swinton in Vogue modeling her own clothes? link to facebook.com
Talk about going mainstream!
Thank you for posting that. It made my night. I love Abdel Halim Hafez like he is part of my family.
I'm sure DBG still doesn't see it, justice. He probably thinks Sharon's dismantling of the Jewish settlements in Gaza was ethnic cleansing, never mind that it paved the way for the slow and ongoing genocide of the 99.3% Muslim population and the .7% Christian population of Gaza. My aunts and uncles and cousins are part of that .7% Christian population, DBG. They are experiencing what Israel is doing firsthand, and I'm pretty sure they didn't vote for Hamas, so that old collective punishment trope doesn't really work on them. Also, in case you need more, my father was ethnically cleansed from Gaza in 1967. He was in law school in Egypt in 1967 and so Israel stripped him of his right to return and he has been separated from his family and his home ever since. I guess it doesn't really matter if you see it or not; the world is starting to see, and you are helping every time you post here.
You're right. What's happening in Gaza is worse than ethnic cleansing.
justice, I'll just answer for eee and save him the trouble:
Who cares if it is “illegal” or not? Who is the judge in this case, the UN that can’t pass a resolution about Syria? Yeah, we should listen to them. It is against Israeli interests and that is why Israel attempts stopping it.
Getting wheelchairs and medicine and food and vital building materials is against Israel's interest in ethnically cleansing Palestine of Palestinians, so who cares? And if you don't like it, you can pool your assets and buy a dingy and try to stop the all-powerful Israel. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
No, the Yanomamo. I don't think he thinks "the Jews" are "your people" since all you do is trash "the Jews" who don't agree with your political opinions on this site each and every day. The great irony of this site, which you claim is "Anti-Israel", is that the only people who consistently lump all Jews together into one group here are the Zionists.
I must say, eee, I really enjoy the patronizing tone that you always seem to use with me. I can't decide if it's because you hate Arabs, Americans, or women. It's probably a combination of all three. That's what makes conversing with you such a consistent delight.
So, you think these non-violent activists should have known better than to help a Palestinian because obviously it would provoke the settlers into violently attacking them? And beating non-violent activists, attempting to stab them, sending them to the hospital, and verbally haranguing them with insults of being traitors, Arab-lovers, and whores is merely "quite unwise" on the part of the settlers? You are a piece of work. You know, here in the United States, our government gives asylum to people who are persecuted on account of their political opinion by groups that their government is unwilling or unable to control. But according to you, those activists should just be happy they weren't killed, as they would have been had they provoked Arabs. Isn't that what you're saying with your ever so clever Iraq analogy?
I didn't see her push a camera into anyone's face. And I didn't see anyone bothering the settlers; they were helping a Palestinian man plant trees on his own property when the mob arrived to stop them. What you are saying is that this woman's political opinion, in and of itself, was enough of a provocation to earn her a violent assault. The settlers left their wonderful, hard-earned homes, knowingly purchased on stolen land, with the intent of harming the activists on account of their political opinion. These people were helping a Palestinian man plant trees on his own, rightfully owned, property. To you, anyone who expresses or harbors a political opinion in contravention to that of the right-wing extremists deserves to be beaten. Their mere existence is a provocation and an existential threat to the State of Israel, much like the cameras that they possess. She deserved to be beaten, just like Palestinian children deserve to be tortured.
eee, what was it about her behavior that was so provocative?
eee: Stones are stones. They can kill you. They are a dangerous weapon. The sooner you wake up to this fact the better. Neither side should use them.
Time to round up all the children in the settlement in the middle of the night and torture them until they give up the perps, right eee?
You are so right, LanceThruster. It's amazing (and sad....and disconcerting) how many times a day I think about Nineteen Eighty-Four.
Taxi, eee is right. There is no way the Israelis would sell the kidneys of their own family members. Why would they when there are so many Palestinian kidneys walking around? The better plan is to kill some Palestinians, who aren't making good use of their kidneys anyway, and sell THEIR kidneys to pay for Israel's existence. Duh!
Thanks! I will take being called beautiful as a people any old day. It is refreshing, especially as compared to what we are usually called. And I love Phil's optimism. I think the little things make a big difference. Even though I think things will get worse before they get better, I know they will get better in the end. The truth always finds a way to come out, and the more effort being put into suppressing the truth, the more powerful it is once it comes out. That's why the Zionists hate this website and the Irvine 11 and the children of Gaza and their art so much. It's kind of sad to think about how much time and energy and money they spend on suppressing such things, and beautiful to see how it always backfires. I share Phil's optimism. I think everything is changing, and what happens at the UN is irrelevant. What matters is that people are talking, and the conversation is very different from what it was even months ago.
It's okay. We are pretty hot. I think it all the time.
RoHa, that was gorgeous.
This is so beautiful it brought tears to my eyes. I wish more people were like your grandson. You must be very proud of him.
eljay, please don't encourage eee to quit! We need him! I actually think he needs a bigger mouthpiece than Mondoweiss. He should be writing for the New York Times or even DailyKos. The world needs to hear his voice. He is the true face of Zionism.
Anyway, eee, thank you for responding to my hypothetical with such intellectual honesty. You make me happy that I practice law in the United States. I can only imagine the kind of evasiveness and mental gymnastics it would take to practice law in Israel.
Indeed! Let's say a Jewish person runs into another Jewish person's home in order to save his own life. Does the home belong to the trespasser by virtue of his reason for entering, or does it still belong to the homeowner? Does title vest depending on the intent of the trespasser, or does it remain with the homeowner regardless of the trespasser's intent? Remember, both the owner and the trespasser are Jewish.
eee, if a person enters another person's house in order to save his own life, what duty, if any, do you think the intruder has to the homeowner once he is in the house?
I'm really glad you're here, eee. I think you do more to further the Palestinian cause than anyone else I know.
Cliff, of course you are right. Cast Lead was and is a very traumatizing time for me and my family. I probably can't discuss it in a reasonable manner, and it left me with intense fear about the fate of Gaza.
eee: very very few Israeli soldiers would obey an order to kill a Palestinian for no good reason let alone kill every last person in Gaza.
Yes, except when they use children for target practice: link to vimeo.com, or shoot disabled children in the head ten times, or kill over 300 children in a massacre, or so on and so forth ad infinitum.
What do you think Cast Lead was about, eee? What do you think a State is doing when it surrounds an entire population in a city that is closed off from the entire world, does not allow anyone to enter or to depart, and then drops bombs on it, taking special care to hit hospitals and medics in ambulances? Cast Lead was designed to teach the Palestinians a lesson, and that lesson was that they were alone, they were trapped, and no one in the world would help them. It was designed to instill the fear in them that Israel could exterminate them if it wanted to at any time without anyone stopping them. And congratulations, Israel succeeded. It put that fear in people, and now even Palestinians in the diaspora just like myself know that it can be done. I do fear it and I do believe that Israel is capable of it. It is not in the least irrational; it is based on past and current actions committed by your State designed to put that fear in me.
Thanks, you guys. My friends are good people; I think I can be very direct when it comes to my feelings about Palestine and I am definitely very critical of US foreign policy, so I think I am also partly to blame for their discomfort. I've just learned that I can't really be nice or sensitive when it comes to discussing these things, so I don't discuss them with them anymore. I think that is probably why I am here. Now you guys get to suffer. Sorry! ;)
Thank you, tree, and thank you, annie. I am honored to have something that I wrote posted on Mondoweiss. I do love being here.
There is no good that would arise from a massacre in Gaza? Oh, give me a break, eee. What about the good of punishing the entire population for voting for Hamas? Or the good of ending the rockets going into Israel forever? Or the good of ridding the world of over a million terrorists and their children, who are sure to grow up to be terrorists if you let them? And what about the good of taking the whole of Judea and Samaria, as promised by God? And most importantly, how about the good of insuring the true and complete security of the Jewish people of Israel, and maintaining the Jewish character of the entire State without worry of the creeping demographic problem? And the I/P conflict would finally be over and no more Jewish blood would be spilled. Now we're talking about the greater good!
eee, I don't care if you think I am anti-Semitic or if you call me anti-Semitic every day for the rest of your life. Your country has been ethnically cleansing and persecuting and murdering my people in cold blood since 1948. You can call me anti-Semitic until you are blue in the face and it won't change anything or make you look better. And I can take it. If my family can survive in Gaza then I can survive some baseless name-calling. Try another tactic.
You got me there! Good observation, eee.
Oh, here we go: I thought that we Jews are supposed to be good at everything we do, since we control the narrative, both ours and yours and the media, and the banks, and Congress etc etc.
Accusing me of anti-Semitism? Shocker.
Definition of Genocide, as found in the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide: any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Ethnic cleansing is defined as: the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous.
So, yes, I believe that based on these legal definitions, Israel is engaged in the slow but deliberate genocide of the Palestinian people in the occupied Palestinian Territories, as well as the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian population in Israel proper, with a focus on Jerusalem. I also believe that if the world was not watching, the State of Israel would have gone into the West Bank and Gaza and massacred as much of the population as possible years ago. If Israel could have continued Operation Cast Lead for as long as it took to kill every single man, woman, and child in Gaza without becoming even more of a pariah state, it would have. Since it can't, Palestinians are instead picked off a handful at a time on a daily basis, especially the women and children, while being starved, denied sufficient water and medicine, controlled, beaten, tortured, and traumatized. Just because it doesn't happen in one fell swoop doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
You: Yet, the Palestinian population in Israel and the WB/Gaza has grown significantly since 1948 and 1967.
How does that make you feel? Don't you just hate those fertile Palestinian women and all their little babies? They are such animals, popping babies out every year or two like that. It's a good thing that some of those babies are killed every few days, and some of their mothers left to suffer and die at checkpoints while attempting to get to the hospital. Just imagine how many of them there would be if that weren't the case! This demographic problem is quite the head-scratcher.
You: In fact, I would wager that life expectancy and literacy for example, have also gone up substantially among Palestinians in those areas since 1967.
Our literacy and the very high value that our culture places on education must be very upsetting, too. I think the solution is to bomb more schools, and maybe dole out some textbooks filled with incorrect facts and improper Arabic, too, while you're at it. It's much easier to fool and control an entire population of people if they aren't very bright. I don't know if Israel can succeed at this, though. We Palestinians tend to create underground schools and learn by hook or by crook if we have to. I'm sorry if that makes things more challenging for you. Maybe try preventing school supplies from entering the area? You could classify pencils as potential Hamas weapons. That's a good one.
You: I would like to ask you Rania, what do you think would have happened if your “friends” in Egypt, Syria and Jordan would have conquered and over run Israel as they promised in 1967? After all, they claimed they were doing this for you? I can tell you, that would have been real genocide. You want to talk ethnic cleansing, let’s talk about Jews in Arab/Muslim countries.
Good point. You should totally kill all of the Palestinians so that Egypt, Syria, and Jordan don't come to get you. You are right to put "friends" in quotes, LLI. The Palestinians do not have any friends in those governments, and everyone uses our misery and suffering to further their own political agenda. The people are something else altogether, though, and the times are changing. We may get some friends yet! I want you to know that if these new friends try to treat you the way that you have treated my family since 1948, I will stand with you and fight against them. I wouldn't want anyone in the world to be treated like that, and I don't think the rest of the world would stand for it either. That is why we have international law. I only hope it still has some teeth left after the I/P conflict finally ends.
LOL! Okay, that is hilarious! Best use of a Palestine-shaped shield ever!
I honestly and truly do not care what those clowns think. If they want to call a pacifist vegan lawyer who primarily represents victims of torture and persecution in asylum cases an anti-Semite and a terrorist, they can go right ahead. I wish them the best of luck! ;)
Of course, edit away! I should have done some major proofreading myself, but I was in stream-of-consciousness mode when I wrote it. Sorry about the lack of paragraphs...and the random changes in verb tense.
Yikes, I wasn't expecting to see this when I opened up Mondoweiss! I don't know what to say. You probably shouldn't trust what I say anyway since, according to DBG and Lightbringer, I am Palestinian and Palestinians have an irrational persecution complex and are liable to turn around and pistol-whip you at any moment.
Dear Henry, Citizen, CigarGod, and Sumud:
Thank you so much for your beautiful words. I really don't know what to say. I was just trying to make Haytham feel better, and it all just sort of spilled out. I have been where Haytham is so many times and it is not fun. His writing is very clear, concise, and logical, whereas mine is probably just emotional and all over the place (this is why I am certain that Haytham is a better lawyer than I am), but it is cathartic to be on Mondoweiss and to get all of this stuff out because most of the people here actually understand what the I/P conflict is about. I will be sad if Haytham leaves.
Henry, thank you for the Brecht recommendation. I have not read the play, but I will add it to my list. Even if I have the right to be anti-Semitic, I don't want to be. I think that kind of anger and hate is an occupation of the soul, and I want more than anything to be free. I think that's why charges of anti-Semitism do not bother me like they used to; I know who I am and what I am and what I am not.
Thank you for the beautiful comment, CigarGod. If I could hug you I would. I am also going to get the Palestinian hiking book. Thank you for the recommendation, Sumud. ("Sumud" is the best internet handle, by the way. Every time I see it, I smile.)
Love,
Rania
Thank you, tree. Your comment really means so much. I don't know about getting homework from Phil and Adam, though. With my track record, I'd finish it the day after the occupation ends, Israel becomes a democratic country for all of its inhabitants, and eee, longliveisrael, Richard Witty and I move into a house and spend all of our days holding hands and singing "We Are the World" together under an olive tree. ;)
Haytham:
From one Palestinian in America to another, do you think there is anything, ANYTHING, in this world that you could possibly do or say to prove conclusively to anyone that you are not anti-Semitic? Do you think that if you converted to Judaism, joined the IDF, and then moved to a settlement in the West Bank, people would believe you are not anti-Semitic? Or do you think that even then you would be accused of being a sleeper agent attempting to destroy the state of Israel from within? It took me a very long time to accept it, but I know that no matter what I do or say, because of my name and my skin and where I am from, I will always be suspected of being secretly anti-Semitic and attacked as such as soon as I say or insinuate anything that is even remotely critical of Israel, never mind that my family is suffering in Gaza. People also assume that I am anti-Semitic even when I have said nothing about Israel at all. This is part of the continuing crime against us and our people, and it is aimed at silencing our voices and our narrative. It goes beyond getting us off websites and blogs; it goes straight to the destruction of our culture, our history, our story, and our ethnicity as a whole. It is the story of genocide and ethnic cleansing, and we are not immune to it because we are in the U.S. In fact, I think the Palestinian voice is suppressed here just as much as it is anywhere else, if not more. If we are attacked as being anti-Semitic, the Palestinian voice loses all meaning and value, and becomes the crazed grumbling of an inhuman racist following in the footsteps of Hitler. Any anger that we feel about our own dispossession and the continuing genocide of our people is irrational and borne of racist hatred. From the perspective of those who would slander us as anti-Semitic, our anger is not righteous, and it never can be because we are not victims; we are the progeny of European anti-Semitism. This is the reason why when well-meaning friends ask me about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I only point them towards articles and books and websites written by Jewish people. The Palestinian voice has been left bereft of any power. That is why when you write your highly logical and persuasive arguments, it is only your anger that is heard, and to be an angry Arab is a very dangerous thing. I have been in the United States for thirty years, and still I have to prove how American I am on a daily basis. If I lose my temper about something, people look at me like I am about to strap a bomb to my chest and head to the airport. If I criticize the Obama administration, I am not a liberal or an American; I am a crazy person who secretly hates America. Like you, I was in law school on 9/11, and I was forced to spend my last year in school convincing everyone that I was just as upset as they, the "true" Americans, were. I don't believe in jingoism, flag-waving, or war, so you can imagine how difficult this has been. Recently, when Mubarak was deposed, I expressed elation for the Egyptian people, the whole of the Middle East, and especially Palestine. I was immediately accused of secretly hating America by my closest friends. I do not know if there is anything we can do to change this, but I do know that the Palestinian voice is worth hearing, and that speaking is liberating. I think by purposefully and systematically stripping our voice of power, those who slander and libel us to further their aims of ethnically cleansing our homeland have made our voice even more powerful and more dangerous to their cause. Speaking truth to power gives life to our culture and our heritage. Let the accusations of anti-Semitism fly; they only signal that you have hit on some truth that makes you powerful.
I agree with you 100%, Tzombo. Turkey has an opportunity to become the major power in that part of the world again. Erdogan is greatly admired in the Middle East, especially after walking out at Davos. I think Erdogan is standing up to Israel to show the rest of the countries in the Middle East that it can and should be done, and that the days of kowtowing to the West are over. Erdogan is ambitious, and he is not putting his head in the sand and pretending like the world has not changed in the last year. He can make Turkey a great power again, and I think he will.
This is bigger than you, dummy. Not everything is about you. With Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Syria, and Yemen in various stages of major change, and with Iraq and Afghanistan in upheaval, Turkey has an opportunity to become the new major power in the Middle East and North Africa. And all it has to do to get all of the peoples of that part of the world united behind it is to stand up to Israel. Erdogan is not a fool. The same can't be said for Netanyahu.
That video made my day.
Thanks, Haytham. I'm not sure what I'll be able to add to the various discussions here, but I suspect it will be merely sarcasm. Oh well. I think I'll go with it until it gets old.
So, are all of the Palestinians on this site lawyers? It's weird how we're drawn to the law even though we've all known from a very young age what total crap it is. I'm in immigration (read: imitation) court every day with DHS, so I am as jaded as they come.
Thank you for replying to my post. I have already learned so much from you. Thanks for that. I think putting your irritation with liberal-Zionism into words is heroic, whether you see it or not.
Haytham, you are my hero.
Haha! Thank you, James! That is very, very high praise coming from you. Thanks! He made the same stupid argument the other day on some other thread and I couldn't let it slide twice.
eee: What does it mean to document proper title? How can the authenticity of titles be validated? Which court will decide on the issue based on what criteria?
That's rich coming from someone who believes an invisible man in the sky gave him the title to the land on which my family has lived for 3000 years.
Annie, "Why I Believe That Palestinians are Holding up the World" could have come from my brain. Thank you so much for writing it. I agree with you, and with Max Blumenthal and, of course, Chris Hedges. I dream of sitting in a dark bar and drinking beer with Chris Hedges. I love his writing so much. It is full of truth and pain. He seems to be a highly moral person, and the darkness of the world makes him suffer. I have spent most of my life in the United States, and what I have found, especially in the years since 9/11, is that the Palestinian cause attracts the most beautiful and courageous truth-seekers in the world, many of whom post on this site.
To me the beauty of international humanitarian law is the fact that it is diametrically opposed to every other area of law. In most areas of law, the law is a weapon used by the powerful to maintain power. The powerless have to work very hard to eek out small kernels of rights from a system that is rigged against them. International law is the opposite; it was written to protect the powerless and to limit the rights of the powerful. Reading most law is tedious, but humanitarian law is beautiful. It represents everything that is good and universal in human nature. It makes me so sad to see it raped and abused every single day.
eee: Who is this arbiter of rights anyway? Or, what are the ground rules for determining rights?
Four Geneva Conventions, two Hague Conventions, three Geneva Protocols, the UN Charter, and the UN Convention Against Torture to start. Most of the body of international humanitarian law was borne of the atrocities of WWII in the hope that they would never again be repeated. To anyone. Anywhere in the world.
Ha! I have been busy today. I can't believe he brought up that time I personally tried to blow up his bus. Awkward!
eee, it's hard to fix your house when racist, brainwashed assholes keep demolishing it. It's the darndest thing. And I can't believe you haven't called me an anti-semite yet. I got "inhuman" and "terrorist," but I was hoping to get the trifecta from you. I feel like such a failure.
I hate to break it to you, but democracy and brainwashing are not mutually exclusive.....which is apropos of nothing since Israel can hardly be called a democracy. And you should take a look around you....democracy is sprouting up all over the place, just not where you live. I know it freaks your shit, but you have to accept it. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings by pointing out that you are a brainwashed robot living in fear of children who have no weapons, no representatives, no government, no infrastructure, no money, no power, no food, no water, no land, and not a single country that supports them but who are STILL kicking your asses so bad with the truth that you have to spend your entire miserable life spreading lies on the internet. I should have just kept that to myself and spared your feelings.
Thanks, James! I hope I don't do anything to make you regret encouraging me. :)
Thank you so much, Chaos4700. That means so much, especially since I really had to screw up my courage today to post. I have been a long-time lurker on Mondoweiss, but this is the first time that I've posted. What can I say, eee motivated me. I thought I had seen it all, but defending the torture of children? That is something else.
Also, eee, I think the difference between you and me is that I would do my utmost to prevent Jewish children from being tortured, just as I would Palestinian children, American children, Iraqi children, Chinese children and children of any race or religion, whereas you only care about your own people. Torture, or "interrogation using sleep deprivation" as you euphemistically call it, is wrong no matter who the victim or who the perpetrator. Some things are inherently wrong. I know you will never see that.
eee, I understand you perfectly. You have been indoctrinated and brainwashed. You are pitiful, and I feel only pity for you. Have you ever read 1984? You really should. It's all about the government using perpetual war to fool people into giving up their freedoms. It is also about torture, and minor things like sleep and food deprivation. It might open your eyes a little. It's supposed to be dystopic, but I think it will make you feel right at home. You will probably read it differently from most people. Most people find it terrifying, but you are so fully and completely indoctrinated that you will probably sympathize with the State. If you ever take any time off from trolling the web to read it, please let me know what you think.
Thanks, Cliff. I actually find this whole blog extremely cathartic. I love Mondoweiss very much. It makes me feel better about the world knowing there are so many people who recognize that eee and people like him are hateful buffoons. A sea change is happening; I can feel it. I am sure this is what scares eee the most. I have learned so much from you and from everyone on Mondoweiss, and that is cathartic to me even if eee never admits that he is a racist and an apologist for genocide.
Thanks, Annie. :) There should be a google translate button for eee.
Which of your points am I missing? Maybe it's because I'm a stupid Arab, but I am having a hard time following your crack-addled racist diatribes. As I parse through your comments, it seems to me that you believe that a) Israel has a blank check to torture, maim, kill, and steal so long as America does it, b) Israel can subject Palestinian children to arrest, sleep deprivation, interrogation, and torture because Israel is at war against all Palestinians, guilty or innocent, old or young, armed or unarmed, c) it does not matter if Palestinians choose violence, international law, non-violence, or "preaching" to advance their cause for liberation because you have other, more important, "moral dilemmas" about your own security that trump any and all concerns, and your security demands that Palestinians give up, leave, or drop dead, and d) no matter what the law says, the conflict between Israel and Palestine is a fair war between two, similarly situated parties.
Did I get that right? Allow me to respond. First, if the U.S. were to throw itself off a bridge, would you do the same? Just because your friends do something doesn't mean that it's right. Is that simple enough for you? I'm just trying to dumb things down since you don't believe in the law. Second, torture is wrong and torturing children is even worse. If you think we are at war, then how would you react to the torture, sleep deprivation, and interrogation of Jewish children? By your logic, you would think it is a necessary evil. I find this to be morally depraved and you to be morally repugnant. Anyone who unapologetically defends the torture of children is beyond redemption. You clearly do not view Palestinians as human. Third, I shudder to imagine what kind of moral dilemmas you live with if you are the kind of person who advocates for the torture of children. If you don't think violence, non-violence, preaching, or international law are viable methods, then what do you suggest? I imagine your suggestion is, once again, give up and leave, or drop dead, both of which amount to genocide. And finally, if this is a war between two equal parties, who started the war? The truth is that it is not a war and the parties are not equal. It is an occupation. Deal with it. There are rules of war and occupation for a reason, and the reason is to prevent barbarity like the torture of children.
What if Cliff were outside your house, DBG, uprooting your trees, demolishing your neighbors' houses, killing your animals, and shooting your disabled brother in the head ten times?
At the risk of stating the obvious, the reason international law exists is because we do not live in a perfect world. Your reasoning is faulty and embarrassing. Are you saying that because the world is not perfect, Israel has a right to torture children (or in your view, to "merely" subject them to cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment)? The Convention Against Torture is law precisely because torture exists, it is considered to be inherently wrong in any and all situations, and civilization and human progress demand that such barbarism is outlawed. As usual, you are blaming the victim. And, to again state the obvious to anyone who is not willfully ignorant, the Israelis and Palestinians are not at war. Israel is occupying Palestine. That is not a state of war; that is a state of occupation with a different set of rules, under which the occupying power (that's you) must not harm the occupied, who have a legal right to resist.
I wonder if your opinion would change if this cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment were used on your child, or any Jewish child, for any reason.
Not that the rule of law means anything to you, but the Convention Against Torture labels exactly this kind of treatment as torture and as cruel, inhuman, and degrading. Israel is a signatory to the Convention Against Torture. As an immigration and human rights lawyer, and as a Palestinian, I can't think of anything that exposes the sham that is international law more than this sad fact.