Ralph Seliger says he and I are near the end of our dialogue. Here’s his latest. I have no response for now. Maybe later. But I like to give opponents the last word here anyway. Ralph:
Since you were curious about this, Phil, I consider myself
fortunate to have no relatives on the West Bank. Most of my Israeli
relatives are moderate to left-wing; one is very left-wing. But their
behavior says nothing about me. They know I’m a Meretz supporter. Some
disapprove, others are pleased, but they all know I mean them well.
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I don’t “extol” ethnic affinities. I only say they are natural and
should not be condemned out of hand. We should all aspire to be as
broad and universalist in our concerns as we can be, but universalism
doesn’t require that we turn our backs on our own people. In fact, I
take it as both my universalist duty and Jewish particularist
obligation to agitate and educate as I have for years for a sane policy
that ends Israeli rule in the occupied territories and leads to peace
and reconciliation in the area. Why you seem to hit me with the sins of
occupation is baffling.
should not be condemned out of hand. We should all aspire to be as
broad and universalist in our concerns as we can be, but universalism
doesn’t require that we turn our backs on our own people. In fact, I
take it as both my universalist duty and Jewish particularist
obligation to agitate and educate as I have for years for a sane policy
that ends Israeli rule in the occupied territories and leads to peace
and reconciliation in the area. Why you seem to hit me with the sins of
occupation is baffling.
As the Meretz USA executive director, Ron Skolnik, wrote in our publication
early this year: “Knee-jerk support for Israeli government policy and
actions isn’t right, and it isn’t smart: This year’s [Meretz
USA] Israel Symposium participants neither overlooked nor absolved
Israel’s mistakes and flaws: They recognized them as part of a
three-dimensional reality in which all parties – Palestinians, the
greater Arab world, the US, et al. – have too frequently blundered and
erred.”
early this year: “Knee-jerk support for Israeli government policy and
actions isn’t right, and it isn’t smart: This year’s [Meretz
USA] Israel Symposium participants neither overlooked nor absolved
Israel’s mistakes and flaws: They recognized them as part of a
three-dimensional reality in which all parties – Palestinians, the
greater Arab world, the US, et al. – have too frequently blundered and
erred.”
Like you, Phil, I also regret the way in which Israel has become a
“lodestone” of American Jewish identity — not because this is bad, per
se, but because it has done so largely in a crude, chauvinistic and
ignorant way. It is a sad fact that Israel has become an object of
worship for Jews who see too little else in their history and culture
to celebrate.
“lodestone” of American Jewish identity — not because this is bad, per
se, but because it has done so largely in a crude, chauvinistic and
ignorant way. It is a sad fact that Israel has become an object of
worship for Jews who see too little else in their history and culture
to celebrate.
You do not express yourself well regarding the issue of Jewish
donors. We are either free as individuals to donate and lobby as we see
fit, or we are not. I happen to “lobby” for two states and peace and
reconciliation; I have nothing to apologize for in this regard.
donors. We are either free as individuals to donate and lobby as we see
fit, or we are not. I happen to “lobby” for two states and peace and
reconciliation; I have nothing to apologize for in this regard.
You are factually wrong — as are Mearsheimer-Walt, Klein and
Matthews (since when is Chris Matthews an authority on anything?) —
regarding the weight of the neocons on the Bush administration’s
decisions (I believe, as does Daniel Levy, that the neocons were more
used than users) but this doesn’t mean that I support them in any way.
I and my fellow progressive Zionists are not part of the “lobby” that
you constantly harangue about.
Matthews (since when is Chris Matthews an authority on anything?) —
regarding the weight of the neocons on the Bush administration’s
decisions (I believe, as does Daniel Levy, that the neocons were more
used than users) but this doesn’t mean that I support them in any way.
I and my fellow progressive Zionists are not part of the “lobby” that
you constantly harangue about.
That you would say anything approving of the hate-mongers Martillo
and Atzmon does not reflect well upon you. You admit that “I don’t
study Martillo or Atzmon, but I find they have interesting ideas….”
I say read them and study them more, not less; but your instincts are
so bad, your judgments so lacking in perspective that I still
doubt that you’d come to a saner conclusion about their ravings. This
is why I cannot regard you as a true liberal. I wish it were otherwise.
and Atzmon does not reflect well upon you. You admit that “I don’t
study Martillo or Atzmon, but I find they have interesting ideas….”
I say read them and study them more, not less; but your instincts are
so bad, your judgments so lacking in perspective that I still
doubt that you’d come to a saner conclusion about their ravings. This
is why I cannot regard you as a true liberal. I wish it were otherwise.
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