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Why the coup determination is now irrelevant to the question of US aid to Egypt

Israel/Palestine
on 67 Comments

There are two provisions of the Leahy Law— [which “makes it clear that when credible evidence of human rights violations exists, U.S. aid must stop”]– that apply to the situation in Egypt.

One, in “22 USC § 8422 – Authorization of assistance,” applies to a military coup or military decree that removes an elected head of state.

restricts assistance to the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree

The other, in “22 USC § 2378d – Limitation on assistance to security forces”, cuts off funding to units of the security forces of a foreign country if the Secretary of State has credible information that the units have committed a gross violation of human rights– like gunning down 300+ demonstrators.

No assistance shall be furnished under this chapter or the Arms Export Control Act [22 U.S.C. 2751 et seq.] to any unit of the security forces of a foreign country if the Secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights. 

Hostage
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  1. Hostage
    Hostage
    August 15, 2013, 10:36 am

    In this case, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, headed-up by General Abdul Fatah al-Sisi, happens to be the unit or command echelon responsible for giving the specific direction to employ armed force to remove the demonstrators.

  2. Dan Crowther
    Dan Crowther
    August 15, 2013, 10:47 am

    Not to be a jerk – but this is sort of likes those alternet or salon articles that read something like “five things the democrats can do to fight wall street’s excess” to which the response, invariably, is “No shit!

    Having the Suez Canal in the hands of a compliant gov’t is far more important to the US gov’t than protecting human rights is, and I’m pretty sure that’s actually the US’s official position, regardless of whatever laws may be in place. There’s a sort of Dreyfussardian element to Hostage’s obsession with “the law,” and in my opinion a failure to understand what’s really going on here.

    • Shegetz
      Shegetz
      August 15, 2013, 11:00 am

      There’s a sort of Dreyfussardian element to Hostage’s obsession with “the law,” and in my opinion a failure to understand what’s really going on here.

      Au contraire! I think Hostage understands all too well what’s ‘really going on’. He’s merely supplying pieces of the big puzzle for you, foundations for future arguments, and staking positions out. It’s methodical and relentless – and when you stand back from it and look at it all together, if you’ve been paying attention, you get to see the patterns he’s weaving.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        August 15, 2013, 11:56 am

        The Dreyfusards did have a point, though, didn’t they?

      • Dan Crowther
        Dan Crowther
        August 15, 2013, 12:05 pm

        Shegetz apparently doesn’t “getz” my meaning of Dreyfussard. The Dreyfussards messed up when they didn’t take their story and their side “to the streets” where the real battle over the case was taking place, they remained in elite circles, in courthouses and so on – the ones “in the streets” were the anti-dreyfussards and the antisemites. The family had no use for the mob and it’s vulgarities, and so they distanced themselves from it “we are right and we have the law and connections on our side” was more or less what the family thought, at a time when European nation states were making clear their regard for the “law” and convention with their new imperialist ventures around the world. They clung to the law at precisely the time nations and societies decided they had no use for it.

        And it’s pretty much the same here.

      • Shegetz
        Shegetz
        August 15, 2013, 12:24 pm

        Oh, I ‘getz’ it just fine! Har har.

        I simply disagree with you. I think you’re flat out wrong.

        This hardly means I ‘don’t get it’.

        I can (believe it or not!) understand the basis for your opinion, empathize with your viewpoint, and still not agree with your assessment.

      • Dan Crowther
        Dan Crowther
        August 15, 2013, 1:39 pm

        Shegetz and Hostage are probably right, I mean you can hardly go a day without a western backed dictator being brought before a war crimes tribunal to be punished, and we all know how much Americans love international law and convention. I can’t believe I’ve wasted this much time on this nonsense.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        August 15, 2013, 3:01 pm

        I mean you can hardly go a day without a western backed dictator being brought before a war crimes tribunal to be punished

        The Leahy Act is a municipal US law on appropriations that has nothing to do international criminal tribunals. But it has been used on a number of western-backed totalitarian regimes. There’s quite a bit of support in Congress to end the relationship with Egypt. There are plenty of other ways to give money to US defense contractors and suppliers, while keeping AIPAC happy. If nothing else they’ll just ask that it go to Israel instead.

        And it’s pretty much the same here. . . . I can’t believe I’ve wasted this much time on this nonsense.

        I can’t either, since the Muslim Brotherhood did take their demonstration to the streets and over 500 people have been killed.

        They aren’t Dreyfussards supporting the struggle of a member of an ethnic minority, or dealing with a case of racial bigotry at all. The Saudis and other Gulf States were bailing out Morsi and the Brotherhood. So they weren’t very likely candidates to turn the tables, close everyone’s cash cow, and disturb the deliveries that generate the Saudi & Gulf oil business revenue streams.

      • Daniel Rich
        Daniel Rich
        August 15, 2013, 7:17 pm

        @ Hostage,

        When I read a forum member’s claims that “…the ones “in the streets” were the anti-dreyfussards and the antisemites.” as if said member was amongst those ‘in the streets’ and also notice how ‘antisemites/antismitism’ is covertly woven into what I see as a fallacy masqueraded as ‘fact,’ it makes me wonder why the diversion is away from your [Hostage] verifiable facts of provisions in the Leahy Law ‘which “makes it clear that when credible evidence of human rights violations exists, U.S. aid must stop.’

        As the house of Saud [a British protectorate] and Qatar [a British protectorate] are merely tools crafted by the west [in a distant past] and their interference anywhere is murky at best, but biased no matter what the outcome might be.

        These anti-freedom entities are in bed with the Bush and Clinton dynasty, so both sides of aisles are covered and innocent people can be slaughtered without the usual DC hubris of ‘demanding this, that and the other thing.’

        Oil and troubled waters.

        Anyway, thanks for bringing this up. I do need to be reminded of what’s going on at times and this is one of them.

    • Keith
      Keith
      August 15, 2013, 11:16 am

      DAN CROWTHER- You are quite right, Dan. Empire touts the law when it is advantageous to do so, and violates it when it is advantageous to do so. In many respects, laws are little more than the codification of existing power relationships, with the obvious consequences. Surely necessary to provide some social stability, but hardly a cure-all to force the powerful to act decently when it doesn’t suit them. Concentrated power is the root of much evil, and a primary goal of social justice advocates should be the diffusion of power, including imperial power. Empire’s are intrinsically evil.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        August 15, 2013, 8:51 pm

        keith, of course you are right about the regard governments have for the law (use when convenient….), as is Dan Crowder.

        But so is hostage. In the face of the great evils that governments propagate in the name of power, the common man has little recourse, but to point out the moral grounds – high and low.

        Governments that pretend to uphold the law and profess undying respect for it, should indeed be reminded day in and day out, that they are in fact in full violation of those very laws. it may be difficult to win a fight against malfeasant governments and the PTB (who are malfeasant by definition) but we CAN serve as witness to the violations – the more vocal the better.

        In that hostage does a great service. it’s not that we know they lie, it’s that we can show the proof. Then tomorrow show it again. One day, the dam of lies will burst, whenever that is. We can only hope we’ll be ready when that happens, and perhaps that’s where the emphasis should be – readiness, rather than street fights with extremist elements 9though the latter is important too).

        in some ways this is what greewald et al do too. keep reminding
        them” that we notice in what low regard “they” hold the law. Will they change tomorrow? of course not, Power never changes willingly. But we just need to make sure that one of us will be back tomorrow – with a reminder that no, we didn’t get tired of pointing out the malfeasance and never will.

  3. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 15, 2013, 10:47 am

    I presume the Leahy Law predates 9/11.
    The US didn’t torture people back then either.

    • Hostage
      Hostage
      August 15, 2013, 12:03 pm

      I presume the Leahy Law predates 9/11. The US didn’t torture people back then either.

      It was passed in 1997. The Clinton counter-terrorism program at that time included renditions to countries that practiced torture. In any event, forced disappearance or abduction is an obvious violation of human rights, in and of itself. That didn’t stop Leahy from cutting-off funds to units in countries like Bolivia, Colombia, Guatemala, Indonesia, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Turkey.

    • Keith
      Keith
      August 15, 2013, 3:15 pm

      SEAFOID- “The US didn’t torture people back then either.”

      Surely you jest.

  4. amigo
    amigo
    August 15, 2013, 10:53 am

    US laws are like rubber.You can stretch them in almost any direction you wish .

    We are the superpower and can interpret our laws any way we desire.

    And screw International Law or opinion.

    As long as the folks at AIPAC are happy who gives a s–t about Eygptians.

  5. American
    American
    August 15, 2013, 11:36 am

    Delighted to see you posting article Hostage.
    Re Philp’s article about being bored with the Jews and expanding on other issues I suggest he can just include/cover more about our own governments corruption in these events/matters…as illustrated by the US Law conflict in this post.

    Meanwhile….I dont know how anyone can continue to deny what this Rev-Coup is about.

    ElBaradei Resigns, But Others in Egypt Junta Defend Crackdown
    PM Lauds ‘Restraint’ After Police Kill Hundreds
    http://news.antiwar.com/2013/08/14/elbaradei-resigns-but-others-in-egypt-junta-defend-crackdown/

    Protesters storm building in Cairo, Egypt death reaches 525
    http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-seethes-under-curfew-hundreds-killed-011808571.html
    ”Despite shocking scenes in Cairo and beyond, including television footage of unarmed protesters dropping to the ground as security forces opened fire, many Egyptians support the crackdown, underlining how deeply divided society has become.”

    ”Appointment of 19 Generals as Provincial Governors Raises Fears in Egypt”
    New York Times ‎- by David Kirkpatrick ‎- 19 hours ago
    The move was a return to a tactic used by President Hosni Mubarak, in which governorships are dangled to cultivate top officers’ loyalty while…

    I will try to refrain from saying I told you so to those who insisted the 2 day revolution that ousted Morsi was an actual ‘people’s revolt’ and not a military coup.

    • Daniel Rich
      Daniel Rich
      August 15, 2013, 7:21 pm

      @ American,

      side note: “… including television footage of unarmed protesters dropping to the ground…”

      One more reason to keep one’s guns where they should be [not in my cold, dead hands].

  6. upsidedownism
    upsidedownism
    August 15, 2013, 11:38 am

    The US is at war with Egypt; On the one side are the Egyptian people, and on the other side is the Egyptian military, which has become little more than a proxy for the US and Israeli governments.

    Never forget that Al-Qaeda is essentially an Egyptian phenomenon; Al-Qaeda was born in the torture cells of Egypt; Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, the current head of Al-Qaeda, was one of those tortured by the Egyptian military; his main grievance was the military regime’s accomodation with Israel.

    When assessing the history of Al-Qaeda and its nature, now that Bin Laden is dead, the Bin Laden/Saudi era will seem more like an aberration; with al-Zawahiri in charge the organization’s essential Egyptian-ness is clearer. Al-Qaeda then are more like Hamas; just as Hamas are the more radical part of the Palestinian resistance, Al-Qaeda are radical side to the resistance against US/European/Israeli domination of Egypt.

    • bilal a
      bilal a
      August 15, 2013, 3:17 pm

      Obama’s emissaries McCain and Graham had perfect timing in distancing the usa from what was about to happen, and the subsequent church burnings seem opportune in allowing western opinion to sympathize with the war criminals . Even albaradei is acting strategically, stepping out in order to run as the compromise candidate later.

      see

      “But wait ! Add another lie, and claim that the people in the street are not only members of the MB, but potential extremists working hand-in-glove with the “terrorists” of Hamas (a propaganda trick that never fails in the West) who would not hesitate to use violence. Foreign Minister, Nabil Fahmy, lent public credence to the fabrication when he claimed that Amnesty International had noted that the demonstrators were armed or were concealing weapons. Amnesty immediately published a communiqué sharply denying his allegations (4). The new Egyptian authorities are now attempting to demonize the non-violent demonstrators in the streets ; in the wake of the July 8 massacre, when the police fired on the unarmed crowd in the name of legitimate defense. A new media campaign is now being deployed : if the government wishes to clear the streets of demonstrators—as it claims—the demonstrators must be portrayed as dangerous and violent, as “terrorists.” Western media are unfortunately quite happy to play along with the Egyptian military and civilian authorities. Anything can happen in the coming days. Violent actions by tiny, unidentified “extremist” or “terrorist” groups (the Egyptian secret services are past masters at concocting perfectly synchronized “clashes” or “attacks”) may be used to justify massive police and military action (while trying to surround and isolate the protesters) . The next big lie : the armed forces are simply defending themselves.
      Trariq Ramadan,
      http://www.tariqramadan.com/spip.php?article13042&lang=fr

    • Hostage
      Hostage
      August 15, 2013, 3:17 pm

      The US is at war with Egypt; On the one side are the Egyptian people, and on the other side is the Egyptian military, which has become little more than a proxy for the US and Israeli governments.

      I’m certain that the US would like nothing more than to obtain the Egyptian government’s cooperation in observing the Camp David Accords. But the military there is not acting as an agent for the USA when it starts killing its own civilian population in the streets. At the moment, General Sisi seems to be ignoring US and EU demands, while pursuing his own personal interests.

      • gamal
        gamal
        August 15, 2013, 5:14 pm

        “But the military there is not acting as an agent for the USA when it starts killing its own civilian population in the streets.”

        In terms of the bi-lateral relations between Egypt and the USA there can be a tendency to over emphasize the Arab/Israeli aspect, Egypt is of vastly greater significance to the US than that, especially after the loss of control in Iran, Iraq didnt go as well as the US hoped, so Egypt is still a key component of US regional hegemony.

        But the Egyptian Oligarchy are anything but passive over awed agencyless dupes, at a time when US elites are engaging in massive looting and larceny in their own states the Egyptian elites are quite unwilling to make any concessions to good governance that might impact on their own extractive activities. Washington was tolerably happy with Morsi, but Morsi represented a threat to the privileges of the economic and power elite. The Army is intent on crushing all opposition or “democratic” forces, will expel the MB from the economy as much as possible, where they supply cheap goods to all and employment to some, and through a protracted period of emergency re-engineer the political landscape to their liking, chaos in the satrapies (rentier states) is an expression of American decline.

        The ridiculous Kerry I/P process only serves to demonstrate the USA’s impotence. The massacres in Egypt serve no one’s interests, except those that have entrenched themselves in the demonic Egyptian state, the USA has predictably lost influence on events as the process proceeds towards a further confrontation and years of seething resistance, the Egyptian elite are intent on meeting the challenge to their privileges, as in Lebanon in the 70’s 80’s Washington is going from protagonist to bystander, but like MacArthur they will return, they always do, the growing independence of the Egyptian rulers represents a real threat to Israeli influence, ie Sisi et al may not be as cheap a date for the US/ISR as hitherto. And neither the US/Isr/Gulf axis nor the Nato one can countenance an armed rebellion in Egypt, in the end they will except slaughter at whatever level Sisi et al deem necessary to achieve their objectives and avoid a popular input into policy making, on that all are agreed. The USA looks bemused, its officials apparently quite pissed off with Egyptian rulers, but what can you do other than acquiesce, when you have few capable partners willing to follow the USA’s program of pillage and politicide, imperialism.

        only my opinion, and what I have heard on the grapevine, sorry no references, or anything useful.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        August 16, 2013, 12:41 am

        only my opinion, and what I have heard on the grapevine, sorry no references, or anything useful.

        I agree most of that seems to fit-in with what we already know or can know. There were US lawmakers weighing in on the situation all day, and many of them are insisting that we can’t continue giving aid to Egypt after this in the form of military assistance or be seen as siding with the military, on the wrong side of history, & etc.

        I don’t know if Obama will even be able to spend what’s in the Treasury accounts and procurement pipeline now. I think there would have been a congressional hold in place if he hadn’t started canceling things like the annual joint exercise, while explaining that business as usual simply can’t go on. Nobody is buying the talking points about a generations-long transition to an elected government. If he keeps talking like that, and this regime is still around, he’s not likely to find any military funding there when the next fiscal year rolls around. That’s my impression of the mood as of today, but I’m not a prophet or a psychic.

  7. Hostage
    Hostage
    August 15, 2013, 11:50 am

    Having the Suez Canal in the hands of a compliant gov’t is far more important to the US gov’t than protecting human rights is, and I’m pretty sure that’s actually the US’s official position, regardless of whatever laws may be in place.

    This article simply points out that all the news reports which keep laying great emphasis on Obama’s and Kerry’s efforts to avoid a determination on the coup are missing the point when it comes to the Leahy Law. It’s the media who have fixated on that legal issue, not me.

    BTW, if you think that General Sisi was being compliant when he ignored US and EU demands to avoid this armed confrontation, then gimme some of whatever it is that you’re smoking. The Egyptian government isn’t going close its only remaining cash cow. But if this idiot manages to start a civil war, no amount of expenditures in the form of US foreign assistance production contracts will be able to keep the Suez Canal open anyway. You may not have noticed, but the ships passing through it are sitting ducks. Thats why the Canal has been closed for extended periods in the past by sunken ships or armed conflicts.

    It isn’t in US or EU economic interest to aggravate the Iranian government, boycott its oil industry, and destroy its economy, while further weakening the troubled economies of several European states that it used to supplied. But that hasn’t stopped those governments from doing exactly that very thing.

  8. lysias
    lysias
    August 15, 2013, 12:13 pm

    If the U.S. executive branch has been able to evade the one law by refusing to say whether or not a coup has taken place, I am sure it will be equally able to evade the other by refusing to say whether there has been a gross violation of human rights.

  9. bilal a
    bilal a
    August 15, 2013, 3:31 pm

    Protestor ‘clashes’ seems to understate the seriousness of the war crimes, these do in fact echo WW2 era brutality .Killing your political opponents, burning the wounded, and covering up the body count.

    “We also note that at the time of the intrusion, the hospital – which occupies six floors in a building near the square, as well as several spacious halls attached to the mosque – was packed full of thousands of dead and injured citizens, due to a siege of the hospital by security forces who prevented ambulances from coming through, since the beginning of the violent crackdown.

    We warn the attacking forces against interfering with the dead or injured for the purpose of hiding the evidence of their heinous crimes. In this regard, we affirm that we have documented all cases of death and injury, and that we will make those public to the whole world.
    http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=31238

    #Police Butchers burn dead bodies at #Nahda Sq and sweep their remains away in garbage trucks #Egypt #SaveEgypt #SisiTheButcher
    @NusaibaTheReal Yesterday
    http://inagist.com/all/367688727243395072/

  10. Hostage
    Hostage
    August 15, 2013, 3:52 pm

    I am sure it will be equally able to evade the other by refusing to say whether there has been a gross violation of human rights.

    Well, I wish Kerry lots of luck selling that idea to his own Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, or the crusaders serving on the congressional appropriations committees that threaten to close-down the government at the drop of a hat. Lack of inertia and gridlock alone might keep the Generals from getting their funding. Those who oppose it will have plenty of backing from Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, & the whole human rights lobby.

    I’m sort of surprised that someone hasn’t already filed for a “writ of mandate” asking the Courts to make Obama or Kerry to perform an act required by law, e.g. 28 USC § 1361 – Action to compel an officer of the United States to perform his duty http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1361

    If you can go after people as dickish as Nixon or Cheney using a writ of mandate, you can probably get away with going after these guys too.

    • American
      American
      August 15, 2013, 7:56 pm

      “”I’m sort of surprised that someone hasn’t already filed for a “writ of mandate” ”…Hostage

      humm….hadnt thought of that, but doesnt the writ enforcement have to come after a court case has been won?…or not?
      and what party would do that?….

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        August 16, 2013, 2:22 am

        humm….hadnt thought of that, but doesnt the writ enforcement have to come after a court case has been won?…or not?
        and what party would do that?…

        If you read the sections of the US Code above, you’ll see there is both a duty cut-off funds and a duty to report to or inform others, including the Congress. Since this is an appropriations law, that isn’t an intrusion upon the President’s exclusive constitutional powers. Any member of Congress could take the issue to Court, and it’s not at all usual for them to do that.

  11. ToivoS
    ToivoS
    August 15, 2013, 4:53 pm

    If nothing else let us hope the military coup groupies will now begin to realize what it means to back a military dictatorship. The chances of things working out well were very low from day 1 and now with over 800 pro-democracy demonstrators shot down likes dogs in the streets we can see exactly how things are working.

    Obama’s response to this latest atrocity is simply wrong. There is something seriously broken with his foreign policy. The only initiative he is currently pursuing is the not only utterly useless (to the US) but destructive (to the Palestinians) peace process.

    • Donald
      Donald
      August 15, 2013, 5:37 pm

      “If nothing else let us hope the military coup groupies will now begin to realize what it means to back a military dictatorship. The chances of things working out well were very low from day 1 and now with over 800 pro-democracy demonstrators shot down likes dogs in the streets we can see exactly how things are working.”

      True, but a lot of people really don’t buy into the notion of universal human rights–it’s their tribe, however they define it, that matters and nothing else. We see this even in some self-identified “liberals”, like those who support Obama’s drone campaign because it is aimed at repressive women-hating tribesmen (I’ve gotten that argument at another blog) or people who identify with secular pseudo-liberals in the Middle East–and here I don’t just mean the Zionists. It’s been depressing to see Egyptian liberals cheering for the military and I doubt they’ll all stop, so long as they can persuade themselves it’s just those bad Islamists being shot.

    • Taxi
      Taxi
      August 15, 2013, 6:16 pm

      Kool aid drinker, get your facts right. “800 pro-democracy demonstrators”? Last count was 512 democracy and freedom-hating moslem brotherhood misfits, some of them armed. And how convenient that you don’t mention all the churches and small business that the MB thugs burned down to elicit such a violent clamp down from the army. How convenient that you omit to mention that the MB were fire bombing police stations and attacking women on the streets who are not wearing a hijab.

      Yes revolution may be good, but it ain’t pretty. Especially for the losers. All adults know this, TovioS.

      There are also bloodless coups.

      That’s why political turbulence is a little more complex than your two-tone, black and white interpretation.

      But do go ahead and enjoy swimming in your sea of conspiracies based on Saban and Saudi media-blitz information.

      * * * * * * * *

      @American, your referencing of the Middle East Monitor poll that states that 68% of Egyptians are against the coup is…. well, let’s just say that the Middle East Monitor is Saudi funded and Egyptian moslem brotherhood operated – so is the “field study” research center they reference. Didn’t it strike you as odd that only one poll was published on Morsi’s ouster?

      In case you didn’t know, the Middle East Monitor is the brainchild of Arabia Inform:
      “Arabia Inform was founded in 1998 as a privately held company. We have corporate offices in Washington DC, Dubai & Cairo; and representative offices in Doha, Jeddah & Riyadh.”
      “Arabia Inform is the parent company and sole provider of Middle East Monitor, the most expansive online current and archived Arabic print newspaper/magazine, internet and broadcast content.”
      http://www.arabiainform.com/pages/about-arabia-inform.htm

      Get your fine tooth comb out and take a good look at this very sophisticated, very expensive propaganda outfit.

      Reuters is dodgy. AP is a joke. Western media is a polished lying turd whose veracity you yourself have endlessly criticized. Oh yeah and btw, most Arab mainstream media is saudi/qatari owned and pumped too. “To get to the truth, you gotta ask: who OWNS the story”, my political analyst dad used to say.

      Honestly, I really was gonna leave all things Egypt on MW alone till after the elections. You guys are making it real hard to do this with so much bs freely being thrown around. Why don’t you start questioning the source of your information?

      Awwwwww what’s the point?! You’ll stick to your POV and yes so will I. Do we really want to waste each others’ time this way? I don’t. So I’ll be seeing you again on the Egypt thread after their elections.

      Adios amigos.

      • ToivoS
        ToivoS
        August 15, 2013, 8:44 pm

        Taxi the number is 800. This is the third massacre since the coup. The first was 51 dead, the second was 123 and this last one was over 500 in Cairo and over 600 throughout Egypt. My 800 number is close.

        Taxi you are embarrassing yourself. Take your own advice and keep quiet until this blows over. Perhaps you will turn out to be correct — the people’s revolution is leading the way and the military is meekly following. When that evidence comes in you can come back and let us all know that “I told you so”.

      • Donald
        Donald
        August 15, 2013, 9:44 pm

        “the people’s revolution is leading the way and the military is meekly following”

        Actually, based on that horribly unreliable Western press, it appears that many “liberal” Egyptians applaud the slaughter.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 17, 2013, 10:29 am

        it appears that many “liberal” Egyptians applaud the slaughter.

        Not Al Baradei, who resigned.

      • American
        American
        August 15, 2013, 9:46 pm

        Taxi-

        “@American, your referencing of the Middle East Monitor poll that states that 68% of Egyptians are against the coup is…. ”

        I havent referenced any Middle East Monitor poll that I can remember…..

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        August 16, 2013, 2:21 pm

        Right you are, American – my mistake. I meant to address MW’s very own Citizen. MHughes, I was thinking of too.

      • yrn
        yrn
        August 16, 2013, 6:20 am

        Annie.
        What is your response to Humanist, life caring, Taxi.
        Should the Egypt issue been wiped under the table as Syria ?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 17, 2013, 10:47 am

        What is your response to Humanist, life caring, Taxi.

        Here’s mine. Taxi now sounds like you guys.

        I can’t help wondering if this is the same Taxi that stated the she was

        “truly shocked by the execution image.” of a Palestinian being shot in this video, but dismisses the same treatment dished out to 800 Egyptians.
        http://mondoweiss.net/2013/08/purported-idf-video-has-men-laughing-as-palestinian-is-brutally-killed.html#comment-583949

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 17, 2013, 10:46 am

        Last count was 512 democracy and freedom-hating moslem brotherhood misfits, some of them armed.

        The number is over 700 according to the Egyptian health ministry, and yes, some of them were armed, as opposed to the Egyptian military who were all armed and who initiated the violence.

        And how convenient that you don’t mention all the churches and small business that the MB thugs burned down to elicit such a violent clamp down from the army

        And how convenient that you don’t mention all the plain clothed thugs and government operatives who are among those setting fire to those churches.

        Yes revolution may be good, but it ain’t pretty. Especially for the losers.

        The same could be said of democratic elections. The losers decided they couldn’t get their way at the ballot box, so they used the army to do it – which you ironically refer to as freedom loving.

        The sad fact is that this is not a revolution but a counter revolution.

        That’s why political turbulence is a little more complex than your two-tone, black and white interpretation.

        So complex in fact that not even you are able to explain it.

        But do go ahead and enjoy swimming in your sea of conspiracies based on Saban and Saudi media-blitz information.

        While you go ahead and enjoy swimming in your sea of conspiracies based on Egytian media owned by Mubarak aligned elites who have been attacking Morsi since the day he took office.

        well, let’s just say that the Middle East Monitor is Saudi funded and Egyptian moslem brotherhood operated

        Sounds like a conspiracy theory.

        Why would he Saudi’s fund a poll that opposes their own position? And do explain how the MB are able to fund a poll when all MB media and news outlets have been shut down?

        Didn’t it strike you as odd that only one poll was published on Morsi’s ouster?

        Especially if what you say is true and such polls are funded by the Saudis,. who have just handed 8 billion to Egypt.

        Get your fine tooth comb out and take a good look at this very sophisticated, very expensive propaganda outfit.

        And now get out your brain and try to explain who is funding it now, seeing as the guys with the cheque book are the ones funding the coup?

        Reuters is dodgy. AP is a joke. Western media is a polished lying turd whose veracity you yourself have endlessly criticized.

        You might have a point, but what does that leave us? Are you saying that IPS news is also lying?

        “To get to the truth, you gotta ask: who OWNS the story”, my political analyst dad used to say.

        Good advice. May I suggest you apply it to your own arguments? The only news sources in Egypt and owned by the elite and they are exclusively Morsi enemies and aligned with Mubarak.

        So why don’t YOU start questioning the source of your information?

        The fact is Taxi, that your arguments are entering the Twighlight Zone. You claim that the world’s media is in on some collective conspiracy, even though the only interests that are siding with you are the US government, the Saudis, and the US owned Egyptian military.

        How can you possibly believe for a minute that you are not the wrong side of the debate with such dubious allies?

        So I’ll be seeing you again on the Egypt thread after their elections.

        There won’t be any, but we hope to see you before the civil war breaks out.

      • gamal
        gamal
        August 17, 2013, 7:18 pm

        The post Ramadan onslaught is very significant, for those who don’t know what happens during the Holy month: all the women in an area come together to cook the Iftar’s and discuss stuff of importance to them, the men congregate and do like wise, in the current turmoil that is a threat to the Quisling rulers.

        using a hysterical public discourse of “terrorist” threats, the state has unleashed a pogrom and Elbaradei and anyone with any sense is distancing themselves as fast as possible from these insane acts, not all but most of the serious players, there are no errors of judgement here, on the part of the military, Egyptians, despite appearances are not fools.

        The people are not rejecting Islam, or even Islamism, or even the MB, what they most certainly are rejecting is the empty non-respresentative corrupted democracy, as practiced in the west.

        They most certainly are rejecting Morsi and his coterie, for being ineffectual, for failing to honour a single promise, for failing to speak out on behalf of the millions who live in such stressed abjection you could hardly picture it.

        The regime is, as Washington did in Iraq, opting for chaos out of which they hope to both discipline the people and find a usable group of comprador frontmen, Dr. …tells me that a sizeable part of the security apparatus is monitoring the barracks, remember the Islambouli brothers, you can be sure Sisi does.

        you can wander round Cairo and count the multitude of people blinded by glaucoma, lacking a $150 op, that’s the Egyptian state.

        The utterly dire conditions endured by millions in Egypt since the Infitah during which, abandoning the wisdom of millennia, hotels and other things were built on agricultural land, you used to see single flag stones prized up in Cairo and people would plant 3 corn or a handful of barley, I have photo’s from the ’70’s, but Egypt lost a significant part of her arable land to this development, it did not escape our notice nor did we fail to understand its import. If Egypt steps out line they think they can starve us,

        Yes SCAF is trying to subvert resistance, but the impetus is popular, and if we enter a period of chaos who knows how it will work out, the power of the military is not uncontestable or monolithic, but it is determined, ruthless and rich in means to forestall effective organization and resistance to the neo-liberal rather than the “Islamic” agenda, so long as they can command the loyalty of the rank and file, and the Colonels and Majors.

        The tactic right now is to prevent unity and foment division, many loudly voicing support for the killing of their brethren are doing so out of fear, and pragmatism, first you must survive, my relatives have been praying in the street in front of the Christian Church on Gesr al Suez, regarding that as greater act of piety and solidarity than attending the Mosque, and being less concerned with survival than perhaps they should, Egyptians are not sectarian in outlook.

        It is the position of many to both reject the Morsism of the MB and the authority of the military, but in the latter case if anyone asks its probably Taqiyya time. In Egypt the secret police are not secret we can see them a mile off, class division is the thing that is crippling the people, a fora is desperately needed but the obvious one of the Independent Unions has minimal middle and upper class involvement or support, honestly I am a bit pessimistic about the medium term, unless new players emerge.

        whatever can be said of Morsi, which papers did he close, whom did he imprison or kill, right he couldnt, because he never ruled Egypt and instead of voicing the peoples yearnings he tried to carve out a fiefdom for his
        sub-group, its all squalid and hopeless, it will remain so until the people can impact on the regime and gain some input in to how the nation is run and acquire a reasonable share of the social product.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        August 18, 2013, 4:05 am

        Hey wait a minute, Shingo: you forgot to parse and dissect my “Adios amigos”! LOL! I could pick your nits one by one too but foof! who cares what you think, considering your sources of information. I ain’t ‘debating’ Egypt with no Mr. knowy Smalls. But I may throw the occasional water balloon at yer mug in the dim hope of sobering you up from… whatever it is you’re suffering from dude, I don’t care to examine the box between your ears.

        It’s utterly pointless now to talk Egypt on MW. I’m by far more interested in observing the brainwashed and shocked from the vantage of a balcony seat – aaaah the romantic bedding of the self-confessed liberals with islamists.

        And are you, again, Shingo, being despicable or just paranoid when you say that ‘Taxi is one of them’ – LOL! Get over yourself! I’m not one of them, and I’m definitely not one of you either.

        Gosh it must be emotionally exhausting to sob so hard for the Moslem Brotherhood, Shingo. On the first day of protests, before the army stepped in, what did the awesomely ‘democratic’ MB promise and threaten Egypt with? Sectarianism and “Rivers of blood” (Syria redux?). And so it was that rivers of blood they got. That’s frigging hard-core life for all you sheltered people out there. I ain’t defending anyone’s violence here, just saying this is to be expected in times of political turbulence and upheaval – it’s happened before and it will happen again. Adults deal, children complain.

        Is it gonna take a lunatic christian zionist as president in the White House for you to understand the grayer shades of democracy?

        Hitler was democratically elected too. And so I guess if the German people had revolted against him after one year of office and the SS took the side of the German people, you’d be defending Hitler’s ‘rights’ to 3 more years of power too? (No, Shingo, Morsi is not Hitler, but they both follow supremist ideologies – zionism isn’t the only heinous, supremist ideology that’s kicking around the mideast, in case you didn’t know).

        And the irony of all ironies is that you are defending the Moslem Brotherhood in the name of democracy, while the Moslem Brotherhood have zero interest or belief in democracy, liberalism, or universalism. They despise democracy, liberalism and universalism. They also despise people like you and everything you stand for. They’re on a mission from god to destroy democracy, liberalism and universalism. They’re on a mission from god to destroy people just like you. You’d better believe they bloody well mean it!

        When a group of zealots are committing sectarian crimes under the pretext of defending democracy, where does that leave your hifalutin bullsh*t conspiracies? You still think everything in Egypt is just black and white? Army bad, MB good?

        Should nuns be marched down the streets of Egypt by Moslem Brotherhood mobs, as if they’re war criminals?
        http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-islamists-hit-christian-churches-235144103.html

        If a group of violent, armed zealots, for whatever reason, were burning churches (or other places of worship) in my neighborhood, I expect internal security forces or the army (if need be) to step in and put an end to such criminal sectarian activities. But I guess, Shingo, you’d rather the whole neighborhood went up in flames while security forces just looked on, right? Anything is better in your books than the “fascism” of the armed forces. So unbelievably idealistically naïve – political pragmatism as alien concept to you?

        You’re siding with the godheads of Alquaida. You will regret this position when you grow up. Which ain’t gonna happen any time soon, it seems.

        While you’re loving on the takfiris, the evil plan to divide the middle east by creating sectarian warfare in every country surrounding isreal is going full steam ahead – and with your help, I may add.

        Oh the bathos of so-called liberalism!

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 19, 2013, 7:38 am

        What’s really sad about our post Taxi, is that ever sentence is riddled with hypocrisy and projection. I could care less about the MB, and I would accept that they were a bunch of incompetent half wits. But it what is clear that you have no idea what you want, anymore than do those who called for Morsi’s ouster.
        On one hand you accuse the MB of not being interested in democracy, even though they were democratically elected and undemocratically removed from office. On the other hand, you denigrate democracy altogether, because hey, even Hitler rose to power democratically.
        Of course, the supreme irony is that you’ve pinned your hopes on the ultimate success being elections, ignoring the fact that Mubarak had elections too.

        could pick your nits one by one too but foof!

        You have, and after 3 or 4 attempts you have completely failed to present a cogent or convicting case. In fact, you have merely demonstrated that, as American pointed out, you have replaced reality with your desire for what you hope will become of this farce.

        who cares what you think, considering your sources of information. I ain’t ‘debating’ Egypt with no Mr. knowy Smalls.

        We already know where you are getting your information from Taxi. Egyptian state run news stations with banners praising the military, replete with soaring music. or maybe you;re tuning into Glenn Beck and Fox News interview with John Bolton?

        It’s utterly pointless now to talk Egypt on MW.

        You’ll probably find the same experience on pretty much any forum where you find people who are literate.

        Gosh it must be emotionally exhausting to sob so hard for the Moslem Brotherhood, Shingo.

        I am not sobbing for the Moslem Brotherhood Taxi, I am sobbing for Egypt, who have squandered their one chance of self determination, independence and democracy.

        On the first day of protests, before the army stepped in, what did the awesomely ‘democratic’ MB promise and threaten Egypt with? Sectarianism and “Rivers of blood” (Syria redux?).

        That usually happens when the army is threatened to destroy you. Again, you are simply parroting the same justifications the Israeli army uses any time it decides to massacre Palestinians.

        I ain’t defending anyone’s violence here, just saying this is to be expected in times of political turbulence and upheaval – it’s happened before and it will happen again. Adults deal, children complain.

        Another line right from the hasbara manual. They too complain that they live in a tough neighbourhood with neighbours that are you to kill them, so they gotta play for keeps.
        Bibbi would love you.

        No, Shingo, Morsi is not Hitler, but they both follow supremist ideologies – zionism isn’t the only heinous, supremist ideology that’s kicking around the mideast, in case you didn’t know

        Hitler also believed in using the state’s military to crush dissent – so that includes the Egyptian military junta.

        And the irony of all ironies is that you are defending the Moslem Brotherhood in the name of democracy, while the Moslem Brotherhood have zero interest or belief in democracy, liberalism, or universalism.

        No the supreme irony is that you claim that tje Moslem Brotherhood have zero interest or belief in democracy, when the only time they ever rose to power was through Egypts only democratic elections and that you support the undemocratic way in which they were removed from power
        It’s clear that those who despise democracy, liberalism and universalism and the minority who support the coup.

        When a group of zealots are committing sectarian crimes under the pretext of defending democracy, where does that leave your hifalutin bullsh*t conspiracies?

        Right behind to your fascist conspiracies that the whole world’s media is apparently participating in.

        Should nuns be marched down the streets of Egypt by Moslem Brotherhood mobs, as if they’re war criminals?

        No one condones this behaviour Taxi and I am as disgusted by it as you are, but you are the one that justifies every abuse by the military on the grounds that this is to be expected in times of political turbulence and upheaval.
        Nice cherry picking and selective outrage there Taxi.

        If a group of violent, armed zealots, for whatever reason, were burning churches (or other places of worship) in my neighborhood, I expect internal security forces or the army (if need be) to step in and put an end to such criminal sectarian activities.

        Yes you would expect that, except during the 12 months that Morsi was in power when the police refused to do their job.

        But I guess, Shingo, you’d rather the whole neighborhood went up in flames while security forces just looked on, right?

        Again you must be confusing me with the police who were happy for that to happen while Morsi was in power.

        political pragmatism as alien concept to you?

        There is a difference between political pragmatism and selling out Taxi, and you will find out sooner rather than later. You’ll be regretting this position long before I grow up. In fact, in spite of the affection and regard we all have for you on this blog Taxi, you’ve become the personification of a human train wreck.

        In fact, you’ve opened my eyes to the fact that the progressive except for Palestine transformation that we observe in liberal Zionists is not unique to Israeli supporters.

        You’re siding with the godheads of Alquaida.

        And you’re siding with the Zionists and the Saudis.

        Oh the bathos of so-called freedom lovers!

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        August 19, 2013, 2:07 pm

        Shingo,

        You haven’t got a clue where I get my sources from. Most certainly not from western media or Egyptian state TV like you fantasize I do.

        You’re outta touch if you still think that saudi/israel/usa have any control over Egypt – that train has already left the station and is heading towards a cliff and you’re on it too.

        Only Egyptian islamists would agree with your pov on Egypt. Other majority Egyptians would not consider you as ‘caring’ friend of Egyptians in the slightest – and they’re right – cuz it’s all about your ego and smearing others who don’t agree with you with the ‘zionist’ brush. A pathetic and despicable maneuver.

        Bon voyage on your propaganda trip and take your garbage conspiracies with you.

      • American
        American
        August 19, 2013, 2:52 pm

        Hey Taxi,

        Let me ask you something wthout making it an arguement.
        So far what this rev-coup has produced is a return of the old guard to control thru enforcement by the military.
        I dont need to list all the evidence of that, I’m sure you’ve seen it.
        I also think it’s become clearer and clearer that the Israelis and the Egyptian Generals are in collusion against Hamas, Gaza, Palestine.
        The benefit of that collusion for Israel we know, the benefits for the E-Military colluding with Israel against Palestine is a another question–SINCE—we know that that is not the sentiment or will of the Egyptian street.
        You are insistng that the US-Saud-Isr had no and are having no influence on the results coming out of the rev-coup.
        “If” they are all ‘havng no’ influence how do you explain the huge crackdown on Gaza, the Egyptian media propagandizng that MB and Hamas are twin terrorist that ‘threaten’ Egypt.
        Clearly the Egyptian street did not previously link MB and the Palestine Hamas together as threats to Egypt’s “security’.

        The only way I can read your claim *in light the actual current reality* that ..”You’re outta touch if you still think that saudi/israel/usa have any control over Egypt – that train has already left the station and is heading towards a cliff ….”

        Is that you actually dont really see the current reality… OR ….you believe there is something *wating in the wings* that is going to surface and turn the current reality on it’s head.
        So is that what you think, that there is something yet to come? And what would it be other than another revolt to wipe out the results of this revolt?

      • Walid
        Walid
        August 19, 2013, 3:56 pm

        “I also think it’s become clearer and clearer that the Israelis and the Egyptian Generals are in collusion against Hamas, Gaza, Palestine.”

        In all fairness, you should add the PA of Abbas to the dynamic duo.

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        August 19, 2013, 5:26 pm

        Thank you, American, for your intelligent questions, and for your fair-minded intentions. This is indeed the first time I’ve been asked ‘why’ do I think what I think, as opposed to either being smeared or dismissed for my Egypt posts.

        It is past midnight now where I am, and I would very much like to answer all your important questions with as much mental zest and clarity as possible – especially given the complexities and multitudes of players on the Egypt stage. I would therefore like to do this tomorrow.

        But I will leave you with this thought in the meantime: there is a distinct and tangible sense of the ‘snowball of change’, a little faster every day, rolling into an avalanche – not just in Egypt, but in the region as the whole, and especially intensely so, in the countries surrounding israel. I’m right in the middle of it and it’s undeniable. It ain’t ‘clean change’, and it won’t be for a while, but it’s change alright.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 19, 2013, 6:56 pm

        Of course there is change, but the question is, change to what. I know you think that being where you are is giving you a uniques insight, but it can also blind you to the bigger picture. Those stick in the middle of a traffic jam don’t usually know what’s causing it.

        In fact, they rely on the outside world for that information. You refuse to listen.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 19, 2013, 8:43 pm

        You’re outta touch if you still think that saudi/israel/usa have any control over Egypt – that train has already left the station and is heading towards a cliff and you’re on it too.

        As the saying goes, follow the money. Egypt has it’s hand out and they are the US and Saudi Arabia are writing the cheques.

        Anyone with a brain knows that Egypt has become Saudi Arabia’s bitch and paid security service.

        Bon voyage and take your garbage conspiracies with you.

        I hope the hangover/withdrawal symptoms from whatever it is your smoking isn’t as severe as I suspect it will be.

        The destination in which you and your ilk are headed will surely make you nostalgic for the Mubarak days.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 19, 2013, 8:48 pm

        You haven’t got a clue where I get my sources from. Most certainly not from western media or Egyptian state TV like you fantasize I do.

        But Taxi,

        Surely if this is a popular revolution being mid wives by the oh so upright, moral and righteous military, then Egyptian state TV would have nothing to hide. Why would they need to lie to the public if they are serving the public’s interest as you insist?

  12. cogit8
    cogit8
    August 15, 2013, 5:17 pm

    lots of smoke in these above comments obscuring some interesting basics about the Egypt situation vis a vis Israel and the house of Israel in the USA.

    Firstly, the Arab Spring revolution in Egypt was provoked by the great majority of people in the streets, who also believed that Israel’s blockade of Gaza was wrong and that Egypt should help the Gaza people. Without going into all the details, along comes the Muslim Brotherhood (MB), who end up carrying Israel’s water, flooding the tunnels, etc, and amazingly, dancing to AIPAC’s tunes.

    Second, that same great majority in the streets were basically hoping for a better life (meaning improved economy – less corruption). Now comes the MB and what did the people get: not a whiff of a better economy, effing with the constitution, incompetent governance, and (the most important thing to AIPAC) the complicity with such bastions of democracy as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Emirates, etc, in promoting the Sunni vs. Shiite bloodbath now in progress against Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, and any other enemy of the house of Israel. The great majority got back in the streets and said “enough is enough, MB out now!”. The military backed the majority as the lesser evil to their own interests and ousted the MB.

    Third, one would need to be anesthetized to believe that Obama or Kerry’s crocodile teardrops for the MB now being shot down in the streets has anything to do with democracy for the majority Egyptian people: it has everything to do with the house of Israel.

    • Marco
      Marco
      August 16, 2013, 1:21 am

      So let’s get this straight.

      Are you saying that if a government is freely elected and then fails to produce economic prosperity during its term in office, it’s not only acceptable for the military to overthrow it, but also to mow down many hundreds of protesters as well? Is that right?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 19, 2013, 8:03 pm

        Good question Marco.

        The MB made a lot of mistakes, but would even a competent government have been able to reverse 30 years of poverty, deeply entrenched corruption, a parallel government (ie. the military), and a Mubatak appointed judiciary and police force that refused to cooperate?

        They expected Morsi to perform miracles, and yet they accused him of a power grab every step of the way.

        Can you imagine people accusing a US president of a power grab for appointing directors for the DOJ, FBI, Military and CIA?

  13. anthonybellchambers
    anthonybellchambers
    August 15, 2013, 6:32 pm

    America must suspend the $1.3 billion (£830 million) it gives Egypt in military aid in the wake of yesterday’s massacre of non-violent protesters against the military junta that has seized power in Cairo. Not least because this slush fund is now contrary to America’s own legislation.

    However, central to the violence and instability in Egypt is the state of Israel.

    The United States has effectively bribed the Egyptian government, as it bribed former president, Hosni Mubarak, for so many years in order that Egypt would subscribe to the agenda of the Israeli lobby in Washington to continue the siege of Gaza that has prevented the movement of essential supplies and still ensures that 1.6 million civilians in Gaza live on the edge of poverty and that Israel can continue its aggression against the Palestinian people by its illegal settlement in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

    There is no doubt that the US congress is complicit in this violation of human rights against the largest indigenous people of the region, the Muslim Arabs of Palestine, by its annual payment of $1.3 billion to the Egyptian government and $6 billion to the Israeli government in aid, gifts, grants and loan guarantees.

    US ‘aid’ is, in effect, an anti-democratic tactic that enforces an American foreign policy strategy in the Middle East that is determined not by the American people but by an unelected lobby.

    • cogit8
      cogit8
      August 16, 2013, 12:38 pm

      Well-spoken and I completely agree – the money given Egypt never trickled down to the average people and instead was used to coerce ‘peace’ with Israel. By coerce I mean the same usage of ‘house’ money in the USA: to get people to act against their own morals because of a bag of silver coins

  14. bilal a
    bilal a
    August 15, 2013, 9:11 pm

    Egyptian Christian Bishop evokes possibility of police .thugs (private security in civilian clothes) coordinating simultaneous attacks on Coptic targets rougly coincident with war crimes in rabaa.

    ———–
    #Minia bishop exposing ‘coordinated church attacks/police complicity/timing while sitin being broken’ > #Police_State http://www.youtube.com

    #Minia bishop exposing 'coordinated church attacks/police complicity/timing while sitin being broken' > #Police_State http://t.co/3eTlXa1GFM— Gehad El-Haddad (@gelhaddad) August 16, 2013

  15. Kathleen
    Kathleen
    August 15, 2013, 9:37 pm

    Within days of the coup Leahy stated that US funding should be cut off. Sure did not get much traction

    • Hostage
      Hostage
      August 16, 2013, 2:06 am

      Within days of the coup Leahy stated that US funding should be cut off. Sure did not get much traction

      He doesn’t need any traction. He is the Chairman of the Senate Committee on State Department and Foreign Assistance Appropriations. He can stop or place a hold on the Treasury Accounts all by himself at any time. You may remember when the chairwoman of the U.S. House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee, Ros-Lehtinen, did the very same thing to the PA after the UNESCO vote and the unity negotiations with Hamas.

      See Ros-Lehtinen releases security funds, holds humanitarian money http://www.jta.org/2011/11/08/news-opinion/united-states/ros-lehtinen-releases-security-funds-holds-humanitarian-money

      * 22 USC § 2378b – Limitation on assistance to the Palestinian authority http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/2378b
      * 22 USC § 2378c – Limitation on assistance for the West Bank and Gaza http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/2378c

      Here is her statement on conditioning our aid to Egypt:
      http://ros-lehtinen.house.gov/press-release/only-leverage-united-states-has-over-egypt-power-purse-%E2%80%93-conditioning-our-assistance

      Any of the Appropriations Chairs in either House can do that with respect to their functional area. The Federal Budget is broken down into 12 Appropriations bills. There are overlapping committees for most of them, e.g. Military and State Department.

      • Kathleen
        Kathleen
        August 16, 2013, 3:09 pm

        Did not know that. Thanks. Too bad Leahy does not have the cajones Ros Lehtinen has. Ros Lehtinen sure has done a great deal of damage to even the thought of fair and balanced legislation when it comes to the middle east. She is one individual who persistently pushes Islamophobia through her words and destructive legislation that she has put forward

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        August 17, 2013, 10:50 pm

        Did not know that. Thanks. Too bad Leahy does not have the cajones Ros Lehtinen has.

        Yes. This year he can blame Obama, but next year there won’t be any appropriation voted out of the Committees, if our representatives “put their money where their mouth is” in all their media sound bites. See for example: US politicians criticise Obama’s Egypt stance: “Aid to the Egyptian military should cease unless they restore democracy,” said Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy. 17 Aug 2013 13:35
        http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/08/2013817102638992608.html

  16. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 15, 2013, 10:01 pm

    Egypt is a “lakhbatah gaamidah” as they say in Cairo. A total mess.
    The coup was a really bad move. There’ll be instability for as long as it takes to get everyone back around the table again.

    • Marco
      Marco
      August 16, 2013, 1:24 am

      There’s no negotiating table. The legitimate government was overthrown.

      All the worst grievances against the MB during their year in power don’t even rise to the occasion of one of the three major massacres the military has caused since the coup.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 16, 2013, 11:27 am

        Yes, it was the legitimate government.
        But it will end up with negotiations. I just wonder how many more people have to die.

  17. bilal a
    bilal a
    August 16, 2013, 2:51 am

    The Saudi-American funded Military occupation of Egypt ‘Restores Democracy’. Do these people look like Terrorists?

    VIDEO High Res Rabba

  18. cogit8
    cogit8
    August 16, 2013, 12:30 pm

    “Are you saying that if a government is freely elected and then fails to produce economic prosperity during its term in office, it’s not only acceptable for the military to overthrow it, but also to mow down many hundreds of protesters as well? Is that right?”

    The above quote is a skillful piece of hasbara by the house of Israel, now flooding the slanted narrative in the USA. Obama, Kerry, and the above poster are all carrying Israel’s water. Failure to produce economic prosperity was not mentioned in my original post, “a whiff of improvement” was what I said. And yes, when people get out in the streets by the hundreds of thousands and demand a change in government, I support that.

    I’ve watched the house long enough now to recognize it’s hypocrisy; although there are undoubtedly unwitting accomplices such as Amy Goodman.

  19. PilgrimSoul
    PilgrimSoul
    August 16, 2013, 1:35 pm

    Political Islam must have a way to participate in elections, or it will go underground. Once that happens, it will stay underground for a long time, it will probably pick up the gun, and the Arabic-speaking Middle East will become one big insurgency/counter-insurgency. Let’s hope that pragmatists within political Islam will adopt the Turkish model, and run as Muslim candidates in a secular state. Once the violent underground alternative is chosen, it will probably last for at least a generation.

    • piotr
      piotr
      August 19, 2013, 4:12 pm

      I differ on details.

      Democracy in which a significant political faction is “not allowed to win” is not a democracy. In Egypt, the only viable alternative to democracy is kleptocracy.

      The way it is going, the only way to differentiate positively al-Sisi from Asaad is that in Egypt nobody alleged the use of chemical weapons. The regime spend a lot of time and energy demonizing MB as “terrorists” and now the security forces are LITERALLY running amok. The most recent piece of news I read was killing of a van-full of 38 arrested protesters. It is difficult to have “partially insane” rulers. We are not talking about pragmatic moderate fascists anymore.

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