Trending Topics:

The self-hating goy

Israel/Palestine
on 79 Comments


Mo Rocca of the Cooking Channel was on WNYC this morning and– speaking to a Jewish host; Rocca’s not Jewish–talked up this trailer for a TV comedy he wants to make. It’s called Shabbos Goy. Check it out; I find it mildly repulsive. (And many readers on this site have told us how offensive they find terms like goyim, shegetz and shiksa).

During the era of postwar anti-Semitism (roughly from The Gentleman’s Agreement in ’47 to Dershowitz threatening to leave Harvard Law School if they didn’t get a Jewish dean, in ’71) it was a curse to call someone a self-hating Jew, for step-n-fetchit attitudes in the cause of ambition. Now we’re in a philosemitic era. It seems to have produced a different species of abasement.

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

79 Responses

  1. just
    just
    January 15, 2014, 12:30 pm

    Not even mildly amusing.

  2. Betsy
    Betsy
    January 15, 2014, 1:15 pm

    What’s with the *watermelon*? Where I come from, that is rank with racist connotations. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon_stereotype. So, images of someone being called something that sounds so like ‘boy’, and asked to step & fetch it, while totin’ watermelons — has connotations…

    Am I reading too much into this? it just seems like this watermelon came from nowhere & was gratuitous prop so one wonders…

    • just
      just
      January 15, 2014, 9:24 pm

      For a look at a Palestinian watermelon dish– unique and down to the very earth– see/read this:

      “September 17, 2013 at 12:30 am

      thanks pamela!

      wow, that was amazing. and they showed them making the barbequed watermelon dish in gaza w/laila i read about. incredible.

      the restaurant 20minutes south of ramallah …i wonder if that is the famous one they just shut down. or put up roadblocks or something.

      it was a fabulous show. fabulous.”

      http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/celebrity-foodie-anthony-bourdains-trip-to-palestine-highlights-gaza-blockade-racist-settlers.html

      As to your question: No, you are not reading (in America or anywhere else) too much into this…….I wonder as well. The “lowly” watermelon/melons/fruits have carried much to slake the thirst, hunger, and vitamin deficiencies of many all over the world.

      None of this lifesaving can be done without H2O, though. Israel has stolen the lives, the land and the water from the indigenous people of Palestine.

    • German Lefty
      German Lefty
      January 16, 2014, 5:54 pm

      What’s with the *watermelon*? Where I come from, that is rank with racist connotations. See link

      Really? That’s news to me. I have only read that black US citizens are rumoured to love fried chicken.

      Am I reading too much into this?

      Yes.

  3. American
    American
    January 15, 2014, 1:27 pm

    Shabbos Goy
    Web definitions
    A Shabbos goy, Shabbat goy or Shabbes goy is a non-Jew who performs certain types of work for a Jew on the Biblical Sabbath, work which Jewish Law enjoins the Jew from doing on the Sabbath. …
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbos_goy

    I had no idea what a shabbos goy was.
    I have a low opinion of the current entertainment mentality that thinks humor is about being snide and denigrating people—-thats all so called comedians do today, they make society more crass in general.

    But hey, the flip side of Shabbos Goy is Put a Lid on the Yids…..if you cant teach them manners then outdo them in a race to the bottom…..equal opportunity ridiculing…..coming soon on the Entertainment Today Channel.

    • Hostage
      Hostage
      January 15, 2014, 2:28 pm

      The point is that the Gentile servants don’t get the day off and this one is nonetheless clueless and happy about it.

      Resh Lakish said: A heathen who keeps a day of rest, deserves death, for it is written, And a day and a night they shall not rest, and a master has said: Their prohibition is their death sentence. Rabina said: Even if he rested on a Monday. Now why is this not included in the seven Noachian laws — Only negative injunctions are enumerated, not positive ones. See the Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 58b http://halakhah.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_58.html#PARTb

    • StanleyHeller
      StanleyHeller
      January 15, 2014, 4:53 pm

      Actually it is a sin for a Jew to ask a non-Jew to do anything that a Jew is forbidden to do on the Sabbath. However, what has been done over the years is to use an elaborate system of evasion. Rabbis ruled that if on the Sabbath someone had said, “Oh, wouldn’t it be nice if this dark room was lit by a candle” and the person had left the room and their non-Jewish servant heard that empty wish and lit the candle there was no sin. So all kinds of evasions developed. The “Sabbath Goy” became slang for that. Of course, the one who is supposedly being fooled is the Lord, a rather impious action.

      The term “goy” is racist term itself. It means non-Jew, but it’s used in a derisive contemptuous or mocking sense. For the most recent foul use of the term see http://www.thestruggle.org where an Israeli deputy minister explains that a Jewish soul is worth more than that of a “goy” even if the Jew is a homosexual.

  4. Dan Crowther
    Dan Crowther
    January 15, 2014, 1:45 pm

    repulsive? shit man, it’s not funny but it’s not repulsive, and if someone takes offense to this, they need to chill out.

    • yrn
      yrn
      January 15, 2014, 2:17 pm

      Don’t you see Dan Crowther, Phil Wiess has to take it out on the Jews.
      as his tribe is also guilty.
      They blame his friend max of been Antisemite, I will show them.
      That’s the level.

    • American
      American
      January 15, 2014, 2:18 pm

      It only offends my sense of what is ‘tasteful’….goy is about equivalent to using yid as slang for Jews….we have enough ‘slippery slopes’ to disrespect in what passes for entertainment as it is already.

    • richb
      richb
      January 15, 2014, 2:24 pm

      Here’s why it’s repulsive. During the Middle Ages usury was banned for Christians. Jews were used to be bankers in order for the economy to work. This ultimately caused full-blown anti-Semitism as epitomized by Shylock in Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice. When people of a different religious group are used as a “loophole” it promotes mutual distrust and hatred. Other examples are Christians used to sell alcohol in Iraq and using pigs to pick up garbage in Cairo. If keeping Sabbath is important to your religious obligations that’s great but using others who don’t — even as a joke — promotes the very inter-religious strife we are trying to avoid.

      • ziusudra
        ziusudra
        January 16, 2014, 6:05 am

        Greetings richb,
        All Euros. had their pet names for eachother till today.
        Banking was started by the Venetians in the 14thC.
        They sat outside on long wooden Banco di Legno
        They carried their coins in una Bursa.
        They gave Money at interest to whom the blieved,
        credere, credit. I believe you, i trust you.
        Hence, we have Banks, Burse, Credit.
        ziusudra
        PS If i’m not mitsaken, the first Ghetto was in Venice.
        Me thinks not that the Venetians would have allowed
        Italo Jewry in on such a guild!
        The German Jews were allowed such.

    • puppies
      puppies
      January 16, 2014, 4:01 am

      They call it “repulsive” because it brings out in full force (yes, even with that incredibly lame text and acting) the nasty racism of a tribal religion. And the bunch of people who still pretend to stick to it (or to other religions who are at lest as nasty while being more universalist…)
      From there to mobilizing the whole PC crowd against the “Antisemitism” of the big bad wolf critics of stone-age religion, it’s only one step.
      Anyway, good idea for a comedy but needs better presentation.

    • piotr
      piotr
      January 16, 2014, 10:59 am

      I am with Dan here. The pun here is concentrated on “Jewish American Princess” theme. They also look like married couple, don’t they? Also, my eye-sight is not what it was, but I seem to see her elbows (our princess is a devout Jewess only when it concerns her work).

      And to richb: Christian money lenders figured how to lend with profit at latest in 12 century, and devised methods approved by the Church. Even monastic orders with good cash positions were in that business. The very word “bank” comes from Italian Christian institutions. And using people of other religion to go around religious prohibitions is routinely done with nobody even thinking about an objection. Where I live, Amish working crews, Amish traders on farmer markets, and even Amish going to picnics use “Amish drivers”.

  5. annie
    annie
    January 15, 2014, 2:08 pm

    i’d put this in an ‘inside joke’ category. most people who are not jewish won’t get this and have never heard the term Shabbos Goy, or Shabbos for that matter.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      January 15, 2014, 4:14 pm

      @ Annie Robbins
      Yep. They never heard of Rachel Corrie either. Or the USS Liberty. The inside joke is really that most Americans are kept in ignorance, and they like it that way. And the big joke is definitely on them.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 16, 2014, 1:49 am

        Citizen- Rachel Corrie and the USS Liberty are serious issues. Shabbos goy is not. Agreed?

        And Annie- People who have read the bible (some atheists have read the bible, but last I heard there’s a part of the country called the bible belt and they have definitely read the bible), have heard of the Sabbath. It’s in the 10 commandments. A little translation and Shabbos becomes Sabbath.

      • Djinn
        Djinn
        January 16, 2014, 4:53 am

        I think you’d be surprised by the number of professed Christians in the Bible belt who’ve never read the bible. Passages here and there maybe but many prefer to thump it than read it.

  6. Ellen
    Ellen
    January 15, 2014, 2:51 pm

    Roy says he would love to play a comedy as the Shabos goy.

    My Father’s generation and his father’s generation also thought it was funny to play the N&&&&&GGrrrr to the white man.

    Real funny.

  7. Krauss
    Krauss
    January 15, 2014, 2:53 pm

    Can’t we just clone Philip Weiss and multiply him by a few millions?

    Self-hatred and PC racism never really goes away, it just transmogrifies itself into new shapes and forms. White Gentile self-hatred is increasing and it’s neither funny or entertaining; just ugly like all racial self-hatred is. Asian-Americans had these issues a generation or two ago, but the young Asian-Americans that I know are confronting this. Hopefully young white Gentile America, those who are in their teens today and younger, can do the same without descending into white nationalism of the ugliest kind, thereby avoiding the sins of both their parents(self-hatred) and grand-parents(ethno-nationalist hatred).

    As for PC racism, that is (still) okay to do against Arabs.
    The condition is that as long as you cover it under the mantle of Islam by shouting until you get red-faced how “Islam isn’t a race!!!1”, while avoiding the fact that the only muslims you seem to target are Arabs, you can get away with a lot.

    Hollywood still tends to cast Arab men in roles of terrorist or sleazebag and little in-between. The women are exotic temptresses who belly dance with sexual allure to the Western man or they are repressed ghosts in burqas with 10 children.
    Nothing in-between.

    • Krauss
      Krauss
      January 15, 2014, 3:04 pm

      Speaking of politically correct anti-Arab racism and orientialism which I mentioned before:

      The only thing missing is belly dancing and I’m hardly exaggerating.

      • Pamela Olson
        Pamela Olson
        January 15, 2014, 3:58 pm

        Wow, that was… really, really, really racist. And embarrassingly self-aggrandizing, at the expense of a population that is currently being victimized. If they were going for “So racist it’s not racist,” they failed. It’s just gross.

        Speaking of which, has anyone else seen the Book of Mormon? Maybe the cast I saw played it too straight, but to me it was shockingly racist against Africans, with a full-on white savior complex thrown in for good measure. It was supposed to be over-the-top and goofy, I get it, but even within those parameters, I felt uncomfortable while I watched.

        Anyone else get that feeling?

      • Kate
        Kate
        January 15, 2014, 4:59 pm

        Somehow I had managed not to see that disgusting Larry David video before. And I wish I hadn’t seen it now. Only managed to get through about half of it. Ewwwww.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        January 15, 2014, 4:00 pm

        Curb Your Enthusiasm is written, promoted, and acted in by a firm Jewish anti-Gentile prick. His whole theme always works to underscore how Jews need to be more subtle in their justifiable hatred of the goy.

      • anonymouscomments
        anonymouscomments
        January 17, 2014, 2:00 am

        sorry i find it funny. namely the larry david bit above, but even the goy thing. the goy bit almost points to the absurdity of talmudic crap.

        call it my thin (or unstereotypically thick?) half jewish skin. but then again my mother is not jewish, and my father converted to christianity… rabbi says ‘no’

        btw i’m nothing, in the end, but this does seem to come down to comedic taste and personal latitude, not mendacity and racism as much as some believe.

  8. Hostage
    Hostage
    January 15, 2014, 3:02 pm

    i’d put this in an ‘inside joke’ category.

    Yeah sure. Al Gore used to turn the lights off and on for Joe Lieberman http://www.hugequestions.com/Eric/TFC/Jewish-Week-Lieberman-Gore.html

    But there’s more “inside” information than just that, i.e. the belief that “the Sabbath is a sign between God and Israel alone” can have crude racist overtones.

    The Talmud contains discussions that say a gentile who tries to keep a day of rest is deserving of death, even if it’s on a Monday, i.e. you don’t get to rest on our sabbaths or holidays and you don’t get to celebrate the heathen ones either. This obligation was characterized as a positive injunction not enumerated in the Noachian law. http://halakhah.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_58.html#PARTb

    See The Obligation of Jews to Seek Observance of Noachide Laws by Gentiles http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/noach2.html

    Of course, many if not most, Jews embrace universalism and don’t subscribe to those views or need a shabbos goy. But the ones who do employ one are certainly familiar with the whole Talmudic background.

    • Krauss
      Krauss
      January 15, 2014, 3:08 pm

      Hostage, the new testament contains texts that says that homosexuality is punishable by stoning, too. There’s plenty of crazy, bigoted stuff in texts that are over 2000 years old. The Talmus certainly has it, as have the Koran and the Hadiths(not least about Jews) but the Talmud has many more things which are way more enlightened.

      That said, I’m typically a religious skeptic but the prophets and sages of the Jewish tradition can even allow my atheist heart to skip a beat or two when I read them at their most transcendant state, when their words do truly read to me like the words of God, or at least a God worthy of the title, for once.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        January 15, 2014, 3:20 pm

        That said, I’m typically . . .

        We aren’t talking about you. We are talking about people who use this shit, just like the KKK used the scriptures about the sons of Ham, in order to make fun of or persecute blacks, e.g.

        MK David Rotem (Yisrael Beiteinu), responded to claims the bill was meant to reject Arabs from joining Israeli towns. “In my opinion, every Jewish town needs at least one Arab. What would happen if my refrigerator stopped working on a Saturday?”

        link to haaretz.com

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      January 15, 2014, 4:19 pm

      I think most jews who embrace universalism never think much about how the jewish religion itself is by definition not an example of universalism. What jewish holiday celebrates universalism, as distinct from tribalism?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 15, 2014, 6:21 pm

        Rosh Hashana celebrates the new year, the creation of the world, which includes enough to qualify as universal. Tonight’s holiday, Tu bishvat, the new year for trees, might also be considered universal, because trees are not Jewish. Although the timing of the holiday makes more sense in the middle east rather than in Canada. (Everything is early this year and so, its timing is not that sensible even in the Middle East this year.)

        The distance between particular (this word, rather than tribal, does not carry the negative implications) and the universal is not that distant. The distance between Isaiah and Jesus was not that distant. Certainly parts of the Torah are antithetical to universalism, but certainly other parts of the Torah are not.

      • just
        just
        January 15, 2014, 6:50 pm

        ” Tu bishvat, the new year for trees”

        So this holiday commemorates the mean and deliberate destruction of ancient olive trees and other fruit trees in the OPT by the IOF and the terrorist settlers?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 15, 2014, 6:54 pm

        oh, just, you’re so funny and topical.

      • just
        just
        January 15, 2014, 8:54 pm

        Thanks yonah.

        I take that as an enormous compliment.

      • annie
        annie
        January 17, 2014, 11:26 am

        well, israel is rather known for both the destruction of millions of olive trees and the jnf for planting trees to cover up the villages they’ve ethnically cleansed.

        and if the 15th was a holiday for trees, what does it mean that 2 days before “Israeli settlers cut down nearly 50 Palestinian olive trees” http://www.imemc.org/article/66739

        so it’s interesting there’s a jewish holiday commemorating trees, but weird at the same time considering the destructive usage of trees in the colonization of palestine.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 17, 2014, 11:40 am

        yes, annie, if the discussion began with Zionism and trees that would be one thing. but the discussion began with an anti Judaic statement by citizen, that Judaism is only tribal and anti universal. So in the context of anti Judaic statement to return the conversation to Zionism is to eclipse the point that citizen was making an anti Jewish religion statement.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        January 16, 2014, 10:04 am

        “Rosh Hashana celebrates the new year, the creation of the world, which includes enough to qualify as universal.”

        How’s that? It’s a Jewish celebration in the Jewish calendar. Does anyone else recognize it? How is this “universal”?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 17, 2014, 11:44 am

        Woody- Please look at citizen’s statement and see if what I wrote is relevant or not. He was claiming that there is no universal content to any Jewish holiday and I say there is. And then you say, no it’s a Jewish holiday so by definition it is not universal whatever the content may be. So the original point by citizen is no longer what you are considering, but rather an entirely different point regarding the existence of a Jewish calendar in itself being in defiance of universalism. You have changed the topic.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        January 17, 2014, 11:53 am

        yonah, I wasn’t making any point. I was asking you a question. How is the fact that the Jews have a holiday which marks the New Year on the Jewish calendar (which only the Jews recognize/use) an example of Jewish “universalism”? I’m not changing the topic, I’m asking you to explain your answer, because it makes no sense.

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      January 15, 2014, 6:15 pm

      Hostage- But the ones who do employ one are certainly familiar with the whole Talmudic background.

      Nonsense, sir. Every person who keeps the Sabbath is aware of all the Talmud? No, the knowledge is not automatic or certain.

      The Sabbath is the key to the Jewish calendar and even to the Jewish survival in an exiled or diaspora condition. The chosen-ness aspect of the Sabbath and all the Torah is certainly (in my view) a negative aspect of Judaism. Whether Sabbath observance can survive without the belief in chosen-ness, is an unproven.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        January 15, 2014, 11:28 pm

        Hostage- But the ones who do employ one are certainly familiar with the whole Talmudic background.
        Yonah: Nonsense, sir. Every person who keeps the Sabbath . . .

        I wasn’t talking about everyone who keeps the Sabbath. I said everyone who uses a shabbos goy knows about the Talmudic background (or they wouldn’t be employing this particular racist legal fiction in the first place).

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 16, 2014, 12:50 am

        You’re still wrong, Hostage. People who carry using an eruv are familiar with the laws of the eruv? No. They use it. they are familiar with the loophole without knowing the laws. That’s how it works. People who utilize nonJews to turn their lights on or off for them are not Talmudic scholars by the fact that they utilize people to help them out. That’s how life is. Of course because you’re a legal scholar you assume that others are legal scholars. Not true.

  9. Stogumber
    Stogumber
    January 15, 2014, 5:55 pm

    We Europeans who are no Jews need a name of our own. That once was “Aryan”, but “Aryan” is understandably not much liked by the Jews,so we should prefer another name Jews are used to – why not “goyim”? It’s not repulsive in itself, and everyone can have his own connotations.

    • just
      just
      January 15, 2014, 6:07 pm

      How about ‘Europeans”?

      Or people?

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      January 15, 2014, 9:36 pm

      ‘We Europeans who are no Jews need a name of our own. That once was “Aryan”’

      But Farsi Iranians, Armenians, and lots of Indians are also Aryans.

  10. Daniel Rich
    Daniel Rich
    January 15, 2014, 6:03 pm

    Q: What would happen if my refrigerator stopped working on a Saturday?”

    R: You glue hummingbirds to the door frame on Friday… and hope for the best.

  11. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    January 15, 2014, 6:05 pm

    Sheygetz and shikse are offensive terms because of their etymological derivation. Goy means nation and is not a negative term. Israel, not the member of the united nations, but the nation chosen by God in el biblio, is referred to as a goy, meaning nation, most memorably in the prayers of Saturday afternoon, and if you wish I will study where israel is referred to as a goy in the bible itself.

    To object to the use of the word goy, is objecting to a private word for nonJew. Since the worst word regarding race is the n word which is merely derived from the Spanish word for black, it is clear that words can become objectionable merely upon usage rather than regarding etymology.

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      January 16, 2014, 12:55 am

      In the movie “Shortbus” a film about sex, a character introduces herself as “Shabbos goy”. Then she explains: I’ll turn your lights on for you.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      January 16, 2014, 10:07 am

      “Sheygetz and shikse are offensive terms because of their etymological derivation. Goy means nation and is not a negative term.”

      I believe it is a negative term in usage, because it presumes that all of the world’s non-Jews have something in common as opposed to the Jews, which is patently ridiculous. The etymology is not the only (or primary) basis for any word being offensive.

  12. Keith
    Keith
    January 15, 2014, 6:35 pm

    PHIL- “The self-hating Goy?”

    I think you are missing the point that the group being “spoofed” is the Orthodox Jews who engage in this sort of pointless deception to be able to break the rules without breaking the rules. I seriously doubt that this sitcom is marketable. Also, there could be fallout over Gentiles finding out that someone like Senator Lieberman believed it a sin to operate a light switch on Saturday.

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      January 16, 2014, 12:57 am

      Pointless deception, Keith? Are you Jewish? Have you ever kept one sabbath, with or without deceptions? So what do you know about pointless deceptions when you know nothing about the sabbath?

      • Keith
        Keith
        January 16, 2014, 5:07 pm

        YONAH FREDMAN- “Pointless deception, Keith?”

        Absolutely. Who is kidding who? These deceptions are designed to circumvent the religious prohibition against “working” on the Sabbath. The notion that activating a light switch constitutes “work” is bizarre to begin with. The further notion that it is not a sin if Gentiles perform this work upon receiving “hints” from the pious Jew implies a God who is rather stupid to be taken in by this charade. Is there a Rabbinical ruling in regards to timers and proximity sensors? Computerized instructions written on Friday? This is religious ritualization which has devolved into superstitious ritualism. These are Middle Ages beliefs that most Americans, including secular and Reform Jews, are unaware of.

        If taken seriously, these beliefs can have consequences. Israel Shahak notes: “I had personally witnessed an ultra-religious Jew refuse to allow his cell phone to be used on the Sabbath in order to call an ambulance for a non-Jew who happened to have collapsed in his Jerusalem neighbourhood. Instead of simply publishing the incident in the press, I asked for a meeting of the Rabbinical Court of Jerusalem, which is composed of rabbis nominated by the State of Israel. I asked them whether such behavior was consistent with their interpretation of the Jewish religion. They answered that the Jew in question had behaved correctly, indeed piously, and backed their statement by referring me to a passage in an authoritative compendium of Talmudic laws, written in this century.” (p1, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years,” Israel Shahak)

        Of course there are loopholes. If refusing aid endangers Jews, for example. Most Gentiles are unaware of these Talmudic teachings or of their status in Classical and now Orthodox Judaism. Many (most?) secular and Reform Jews are also unaware. As my original comment indicated, I seriously doubt that most Jews would welcome a “comedy” on this particular subject. I don’t normally discuss this subject because I think that it has minimal relevance in 21st century America. However, Israel is another story.

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      January 16, 2014, 1:42 am

      Keith writes “Also, there could be fallout over Gentiles finding out that someone like Senator Lieberman believed it a sin to operate a light switch on Saturday.” This is a bunch of bull. Orthodox Jews are already known for fucking through a hole in a sheet and that did not bring the world to an end, so why would not turning on electricity on Shabbat bring the world to an end.

      But one point is: Imagine a day when you are forced to disconnect from the internet and from television and from the telephone. That would be a godsend. Well, guess what, the net effect of not turning on lights is to have the godsend of a day off from the connectedness of this too busy world. The world would benefit if it could figure out how to learn this lesson from the Sabbath, but it’s tough to achieve without a divine Torah command.

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        January 16, 2014, 3:12 am

        yonah Fredman:

        the net effect of not turning on lights is to have the godsend of a day off from the connectedness of this too busy world.

        But what is the “net effect” (lol) of not turning on the lights yourself but having a non-Jew do it for you?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        January 16, 2014, 5:24 pm

        Sibiriak- Laws have loopholes, that’s the nature of laws, ask any lawyer. Of course loopholes make the law less complete and less pure and less wholesome. But if the law is worthwhile (my contention), then the loopholes are not the main story, but the side story.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        January 16, 2014, 7:32 pm

        “Sibiriak- Laws have loopholes, that’s the nature of laws, ask any lawyer.”

        Okay. I asked a number of lawyers I know and they all agreed that loopholes is not the nature of laws. In fact, they are a defects in laws, as lawmakers work to eliminate them. In fact, following the letter of the law and violating its spirit is seen as injustice.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        January 16, 2014, 10:09 am

        “Imagine a day when you are forced to disconnect from the internet and from television and from the telephone. That would be a godsend. ”

        Would it? To those who rely on that technology for human contact (and there are a lot of them) or for shear entertainment would disagree.

      • Keith
        Keith
        January 16, 2014, 7:48 pm

        YONAH FREDMAN- “Orthodox Jews are already known for fucking through a hole in a sheet….”

        Tell me you’re joking, please! Several comments are in order. First, had I posted that, I suspect that I would be banned from Mondoweiss faster than you can say “Sabbath Goy.” Second, I seriously doubt the accuracy of your comment, and suspect that you have been duped by an urban legend. Third, most Gentiles, when they think of Jews at all, think of secular and Reform Jews, and would be greatly surprised by Lieberman, the light switch, and Gore. I think that it could have a significant impact on the voters. Best not to even mention the sheets. Finally, your final paragraph claiming that not turning on the lights, etc, would be welcome respite from hectic life is just plain silly. What respite? As you state in your response to Sibiriak, there are loopholes to the prohibitions, therefore, instead of a respite, most would resort to an intelligence insulting ruse to get around the prohibitions making the whole business even more tedious and nerve racking. Frankly, I doubt that you are capable of an intelligent discussion on this issue as you are much too defensive.

  13. eljay
    eljay
    January 15, 2014, 7:07 pm

    Mo Rocca of the Cooking Channel was on WNYC this morning and– speaking to a Jewish host; Rocca’s not Jewish–talked up this trailer for a TV comedy he wants to make. It’s called Shabbos Goy. Check it out; I find it mildly repulsive.

    Dunno about repulsive but, wow, that was incredibly lame.

  14. doug
    doug
    January 16, 2014, 1:14 am

    I was a “Shabbos Goy.” Well, for one Friday night – Saturday at least.

    Some years back a friend of a friend was staying the weekend with me. He was actually a Catholic that had converted to Orthodox (no small doing!) a few years earlier. He had asked earlier if it would be OK if I operated the light switches for him when the time came and I agreed since, not being chosen, doing so wasn’t offensive to the FSM, er G-d. When the time came I had forgotten his request and he sort of indirectly reminded me. It was quite cute.

    I thought of it as quirky and strange but not demeaning.

    • German Lefty
      German Lefty
      January 17, 2014, 4:36 am

      I agreed since, not being chosen, doing so wasn’t offensive to the FSM, er G-d.

      LOL.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      January 18, 2014, 2:54 pm

      When the time came I had forgotten his request and he sort of indirectly reminded me. It was quite cute.

      Let me guess. He probably said that it was quite dark or bright in the room.

  15. quercus
    quercus
    January 16, 2014, 6:56 am

    Judging from many of the comments, I believe most of you are missing the point. I saw the clip as ‘mocking’ the idea of a ‘shabbos goy’ and in fact ‘mocking’ Orthodox Judaism itself, and frankly, that’s fine to me. Other religions have been mocked — why not Judaism.

    • American
      American
      January 17, 2014, 12:42 pm

      @quercus

      I like ridicule, its a good tool if its used to ridicule the right things or I should say used to ridicule the wrong things.
      The problem I have is when it gets into ‘micro picking’ things in a religion, cuture, etc. that arent even on anyones radar and no one cares about anyway–its silliness.
      But all this nit picking is too often ‘snideness” that has taken over everything in entertainment-dom.
      Its boring, stupid and just generates more copy cat snideness in return.
      I remember reading about Larry Summers (Harvard) ridicule of the gentile twins in the Facebook flap ‘wearing suits and ties’ to their meeting with him…..so I had the perfect opening to ridicule the silly caps Jews wear and the sect that grows beards and dresses in black get ups like some gangster mob.
      All this snide and ridicule crap treated as legitimate just encourages the public to be even more low brow and crass then it already is.

  16. eljay
    eljay
    January 16, 2014, 7:55 am

    >> I thought of it as quirky and strange but not demeaning.

    I find it kind of sad that, on a weekly basis, a person’s belief in and devotion to an imaginary being hinders his ability to be a fully-functioning human being.

  17. Talkback
    Talkback
    January 16, 2014, 8:32 am

    I think the actual joke here is that certain humans believe that they are not allowed to turn on or off the lights on a certain day of the week. It’s quite hilarious.

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      January 16, 2014, 5:26 pm

      Talkback- Is a day off from work hilarious? Of course not. The specifics of the Jewish sabbath can be ridiculed if you have another sabbath to offer as the alternative, but you have no alternative other than just your ridicule.

      • eljay
        eljay
        January 16, 2014, 5:58 pm

        >> Talkback- Is a day off from work hilarious? Of course not.

        What’s funnier than people equating flicking light switches with a day of work is people defending the piety of those who cheat the system by having someone flick the switches for them.

      • libra
        libra
        January 16, 2014, 6:04 pm

        yonah fredman: Is a day off from work hilarious?

        yonah, is turning a light on and off really work? I’ve been doing this unpaid night in, night out for almost my entire life. What an idiot I’ve been, I could have earned a fortune. Still, at least I haven’t been daft enough to pay someone else to operate the switch for me.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        January 18, 2014, 2:51 pm

        Talkback- Is a day off from work hilarious? Of course not.

        Straw man argument.

        The specifics of the Jewish sabbath can be ridiculed if you have another sabbath to offer as the alternative, but you have no alternative other than just your ridicule.

        Even more ridiculous. I’m not surprised.

  18. yrn
    yrn
    January 16, 2014, 9:27 am

    I think the actual joke here is that certain humans still believe today that someone killed their god.

    • eljay
      eljay
      January 17, 2014, 4:02 pm

      >> I think the actual joke here is that certain humans still believe today that someone killed their god.

      The bigger joke is that many humans believe in at least one god.

      The tragedy is that many humans believe that their belief in at least one god makes them special – perhaps even “chosen” – and that they can therefore act unjustly and immorally toward others.

      The mind-f’ingly stupid are the atheists affiliated with these god(s)-believers, who deny their god(s), but greedily cling to the “chosen-ness”.

    • MRW
      MRW
      January 17, 2014, 4:38 pm

      Or their God’s real estate deed.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      January 18, 2014, 3:00 pm

      I think the actual joke here is that certain humans still believe today that someone killed their god.

      I agree. And before and after that they believed that their god told them to kill.

  19. jon s
    jon s
    January 16, 2014, 4:09 pm

    Here’s a great Shabbes goy story: My grandfather, of blessed memory, while living in the States, employed a boy from the neighborhood to come in on Friday nights to turn off the lights. After the weekend, Zeyde ,as we called him, would give the kid a quarter. One time the kid told Zeyde: “Rabbi S., next week I won’t be able to come over. ” “Why not? ” ,inquired my grandfather. “It’s my Bar Mitzvah!”, said the kid.
    Turns out that the 12 year old had conned the old man into taking him for a goy. True story.

  20. German Lefty
    German Lefty
    January 16, 2014, 6:01 pm

    And many readers on this site have told us how offensive they find terms like goyim, shegetz and shiksa.

    I don’t find the term “Schickse” offensive. That’s because it’s used in Germany by non-Jews, too. Here, it has a different (or a further) meaning. It means “easy girl” or “silly girl”.
    http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Schickse
    http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Schickse

  21. PilgrimSoul
    PilgrimSoul
    January 16, 2014, 7:24 pm

    Love the story by Jon S.

    I have long said that the last stage of Christian antisemitism is the inability to criticize Jews when they make mistakes, or adopt bad policies. We’re now seeing many examples of this seemingly paradoxical situation. You could call it philo-Semitism, but it’s really just a form of spiritual laziness. Christians are terrified of being called antisemitic, because Christianity historically was antisemitic, and Christians never really tried to figure out why. So out of guilt they are terrified of having anything even remotely resembling a candid conversation.

    You will know that Christian antisemitism is finally dying when a Christian can look at all things Jewish and disagree with those things that seem bad to him, and support things that seem good, without caring what the cultural vigilantes of the Israel Lobby say about it. We can get there, if we learn to stop looking at each other as stand-ins for past trauma.

  22. puppies
    puppies
    January 17, 2014, 5:27 am

    “And many readers on this site have told us how offensive they find terms like goyim, shegetz and shiksa”

    To find them offensive, you both have to know Hebrew and be well acquainted with Yiddish tribal culture. As John Q. Public I couldn’t care less, and to me JQ Public they are no more than cute folkloric New York terms.

  23. seafoid
    seafoid
    January 17, 2014, 11:47 am

    Elton John’s elevator magnum opus

    Song for (the) goy

    with the unforgettable refrain

    “Zionism is a temporary thing”

  24. MRW
    MRW
    January 17, 2014, 4:40 pm

    Las Vegas concierges tell of Saturdays spent sending people up and down to guests’ hotel rooms to turn on lights, turn them off, run the bath, do this, do that. They hate Saturdays.

Leave a Reply