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‘I mourn my Jewish community, which seeks to justify these inexcusable acts’

Israel/Palestine
on 67 Comments
 Bay Area If Not Now When action (photo:  Susannah Nachenberg)

Bay Area If Not Now When action (photo:If Not Now)

This morning, I stood with a group of young Jews coming together through #IfNotNow to block the entrance to the Jewish Federation/Jewish Community Relations Council building, two of the largest Jewish institutions in the Bay Area, to mourn lives lost in this most recent Gaza massacre, through performing shiva, the Jewish mourning ritual.

We were there to demonstrate our dissent for the American Jewish institutional response to the violence, which continues to blindly support the state of Israel without acknowledgement of the immense suffering and disproportionate lives lost in Gaza.

We read the names of Palestinians and their stories. Some were medics, journalists and children, in some cases entire families. Every name matters.

And many of us spoke about why we chose to stand up and speak out. One participant talked about his family’s experiences in the Holocaust. He explained that no amount of violence, of killing of civilians, is going to bring about security. That in order for this cycle of violence to end, we must support a just peace and an approach rooted in nonviolence and in the spirit of two main Jewish values we were taught: 1) wrestling with and questioning in the face of difficult situations and 2) all human life is precious.

Several weeks ago, when the death toll was around 600, I took part in a similar mourning ritual and now, weeks later, I continue my mourning, as the casualties reach over 2,000, mostly civilians, over 700 of which are women and children.

I am not however just mourning for the lives lost on both sides, but I’m also mourning the state of my American Jewish community, which seeks to justify these inexcusable acts, straying away from the social justice spirit of tikkun at the foundation of Judaism.

“If I am not for myself who is for me? And being for my own self, what am ‘I’? And if not now, when?”

This quote from Hillel the elder was written on the outside of the JCRC building. Until these institutions heed this call and stand up against violence and oppression and take a stand that supports the dignity and freedom of all people, we will continue to raise our voices as a growing number of Jews in rising up for justice and equality for all in exclaiming, “The JCRC and Jewish Federation does not speak for me. End the Occupation and End the Siege!”

 Bay Area If Not Now When action (photo:  Susannah Nachenberg)

Bay Area If Not Now When action (photo:If Not Now)

Susannah
About Susannah Nachenberg

Susannah Nachenberg is an activist with Jewish Voice for Peace in the Bay Area.

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67 Responses

  1. eGuard
    eGuard
    August 19, 2014, 5:16 pm

    The title is a quote. Who said it? (it’s not in the article)

    • annie
      annie
      August 19, 2014, 5:35 pm

      maybe you missed it, 6th paragraph:

      I’m also mourning the state of my American Jewish community, which seeks to justify these inexcusable acts,

      • eGuard
        eGuard
        August 19, 2014, 6:54 pm

        I see.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 19, 2014, 8:00 pm

        Only a matter of time, and not a whole lot of time, before somebody, maybe one of the people in the pictures with this thread, maybe not, decides that non-Zionist Judaism needs a tangible presence in the American religious landscape, and that it is possible to provide it.
        Has anybody completely figured out exactly what this non-Zionist Judaism will consist of? Probably not. But then I don’t remember a lot of discussion about how Zionist Judaism was going to work and what its consequences would be, and to what lengths the religion should be involved with the project.

      • Betsy
        Betsy
        August 19, 2014, 8:21 pm

        @Mooser — from your mouth to God’s ear!

      • AbigailOK
        AbigailOK
        August 20, 2014, 9:18 am

        And those of the rest of the Jewish people globally too. Amen veamen!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 12:34 pm

        “@Mooser — from your mouth to God’s ear!”

        Wait a minute, it’s God? And not Goddess? So all the nibbling and little endearments probably aren’t helping, huh?

        Fifth paragraph from top

      • Trygve
        Trygve
        August 19, 2014, 11:00 pm

        In his book “Genesis,” John Judis writes about Asher Ginsberg’s cultural Zionism which Ginsberg offered as an alternative to political/colonial Zionism. Could the scholarly among the Mondoweiss comment about that?

      • jon s
        jon s
        August 20, 2014, 10:47 am

        Asher Zvi Ginsberg (1856-1927) is best known by his pen-name, Ahad Ha’am (literally: “one of the people”) and is considered one of the founding fathers of modern Zionism. He wasn’t a leader in the political sense, his influence was primarily as a thinker and writer, on the moderate wing of the Zionist movement . He was one of the first who expressed concern about the future of Jewish-Arab relations, at a time when most Zionist leaders preferred to ignore the issue . Ahad Ha’am saw the conflict looming in the future.

        See here:
        https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/ahad_haam.html

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 12:35 pm

        “In his book “Genesis,” John Judis writes about Asher Ginsberg’s cultural Zionism”

        He was looking for investors in a chain of bagel-bakeries.

      • MRW
        MRW
        August 20, 2014, 5:13 am

        @Mooser,

        Or the Southwestern US equivalent: ‘Mourn all you want; no one gives a shit about your conjured phony angst anymore’.

      • AbigailOK
        AbigailOK
        August 20, 2014, 9:39 am

        @ Mooser You sound as if Judaism without zionism would have to be established and built or made up from the ground up again. Judaism is thousands of years old. Not so zionism which is a political movement from the end of the 19th century only! (Sorry if I sound like a lecturer). Take out the prayer for the state of israel and its orcs er..soldiers in many sidurim or daily prayer books and voila!

        What is more important is that the zionist hasbara has to be purged from the Jewish mind. No israeli hasbara agent or shaliach sent to head the Jewish youth movements should be sent all over the world anymore where there are Jewish communities. The minds of Jewish kids get poisoned.

        Jews should start learning of their spiritual heritage and there are great books to read in English or any other language. You don’t immediately have to learn or know Hebrew. Even if that helps with the original text so that you know and are not taught by others. Lots of layers of interpretation although the deepest or mystical side has been kept away from the population at large for centuries. Only known to a few insiders. Power? Yes, that had something to do with it. We are quite patriarchical although Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative have done a great job in changing that but they are mainly American denominations. Orthodox fundamentalism which holds sway these days is mainly rigid and sometimes even in some respects obsolete and backward.
        Maybe with some common sense some Jews should come down to earth and not think ourselves holy by birth. We are not. That is a misconception and a very dangerous one imho. We have some immense treasure in our hands but put it on a shelf for God is apparently an anomaly or a made up thing. Then that’s where zionism crept in.
        Oppressive religion which had nothing to do with Torah ethics and standards which should give voice to so many interpretations, antisemitism, and getting out of the ghettos, may have contributed to losing our sights of living halachah and learning and living joyously on a daily basis.
        Synagogue services used to be learning events instead of boring, unspiritual, repetitive get togethers because it is a holiday or shabat or you want to see such and such, or a bar mitzvah that costs thousands to outdo others…. Books by Aryeh Kaplan z”l about Jewish meditation (has nothing to do with Eastern religion’s meditations) gives great insights in not only Jewish history but certainly how Judaism was lived without the straitjacket it has declined into over the past centuries with now the idolatry of the state of israel around it. Filler-up of a void maybe.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 12:39 pm

        “@ Mooser You sound as if Judaism without zionism would have to be established and built or made up from the ground up again. Judaism is thousands of years old.”

        I sounded that way because I was hoping somebody braver than I would point out that there has been a non-Zionist Judaism, there all the time, and Zionist Judaism is the aberration. And I thank you for doing it, AbigailOK ,very much.

      • jon s
        jon s
        August 21, 2014, 1:11 am

        AbigailOK, Modern Zionism did, indeed, appear at the end of the 19th century and was influenced by European nationalism of the time . But it also had its roots in Jewish history and traditions. If you think that the Jewish communities can be “divorced ” from the Jewish state – it will be a cold day in hell when that happens. In any case, the Anti-Semites won’t allow it:

        http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/17/sainsburys-removes-kosher-food-anti-israel-protesters

      • michtom
        michtom
        August 20, 2014, 10:49 pm

        Judaism is NOT Zionist. They are two VERY distinct–and not inherently related–things.

        Many Orthodox Jewish sects are anti-Zionist and feel it is in contradiction to the Tanakh.

        The essence of Judaism to me is in the Seder where Jews are told three things:

        We should think of ourselves as having personally come out of slavery;
        That no one is free until everyone is free;
        That Jews have an obligation to work for universal freedom.

        Based on that, Zionism is in opposition to Judaism.

      • AbigailOK
        AbigailOK
        August 21, 2014, 8:22 am

        @Michtom
        +1 and then some!

      • AbigailOK
        AbigailOK
        August 21, 2014, 8:29 am

        @jon s

        No, buddy. What you are getting wrong is the prayer to one day be able to return to Zion or the holy land – which is not in Uganda as Herzl would want it but hey, he wanted a whole people to convert to Roman-Catholicism, what does he know right? I always wonder what Nutanyahoo and others before him know or care a bit when they stand in front of a huge picture of this nutcase who apparently was a Jewish antisemite. Ha!
        That prayer was inserted centuries ago. Fully knowing that this last diaspora that is still there since 70 CE, till this day thus, would only be lifted through the coming of Mashiach. Of which no one knows when that will be but God him/her/itself and certainly no peyes wearing person nor a secularist military dictator as Ben Gurion and his ilk then.
        The zionism people refer to is the zionism of Herzl the Uganda/converter propagandist. And don’t you know it. But hey, getting the words “antisemite” in might work for you. But not for others here. Too knowledgable a commenting crowd at MW not suffering from psychopathic poor little me/the hell with anybody else syndrom.

      • just
        just
        August 21, 2014, 8:43 am

        Great comment!

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 21, 2014, 8:44 am

        >> michtom:

        The essence of Judaism to me is in the Seder where Jews are told three things:

        We should think of ourselves as having personally come out of slavery;
        That no one is free until everyone is free;
        That Jews have an obligation to work for universal freedom.

        That sounds so much more moral and admirable than the essence of Zio-supremacism, which appears to be: “Jews are entitled to a colonialist, expansionist and supremacist ‘Jewish State’ of (Greater) Israel in Palestine.”

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 21, 2014, 8:58 am

        >> jon s … link to theguardian.com

        Louise Mensch, the former Tory MP, accused Sainsbury’s of racism, writing on Twitter: “Dear @Sainsburys kosher is JEWISH food. Israel is a COUNTRY. How DARE YOU equate Jews’ food to ISRAEL, how dare you #EverydayAntisemitism”

        I wonder if Louise Mensch is at least as troubled by the fact that Zio-supremacists constantly equate Jews to Israel, how DARE THEY!

        #Over60YearsOfEverydayAntisemitismCommittedByZionists

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        August 21, 2014, 9:16 am

        @ Jon S.
        “If you think that the Jewish communities can be “divorced ” from the Jewish state – it will be a cold day in hell when that happens.”

        This sense of inevitable identification with Israel is relatively recent. As recently as the 1950s, there was a viable stream within organized liberal Judaism that was anti-Zionist. The American Council for Judaism saw Judaism as a religion. It divorced Judaism from Israeli nationalism. Oddly enough, just like secular Israelis today.
        The surge in American Jewish identification correlates with the successes of the State of Israel and its popularity in the general American and world culture. Given the continuing downward spiral of Israel’s reputation, it is likely that Jews will turn away from Israel long before hell becomes a temperate climate.

  2. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 19, 2014, 5:39 pm

    Great comment at haaretz.
    http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.611184
    “• For people who are so worried about a possible drop in the Jewish population
    o By Reuben Jacobs, London
    o 19 Aug 2014
    o 08:41PM
    all that needs to happen is go back to the Solomonic era rules when it was easy to become Jewish. Nowhere in the Torah does it say that it should be difficult to become Jewish. This is a modern ghetto rule, made to appease the Christian and Muslim overlords who were concerned about proselytizing. (and the switch from male to female lineage came about to combat the amount of illegitimate children born after Jewish women were raped by the occupying Roman army). If Jews were able to free themselves from this weak ghetto thinking they wouldnt care a hoot if one or 2 women choose to leave the faith for their husband. ”

    I nominate Mooser to become CEO of NEWJEW PLC.
    Anyone can join and become Jewish. Within 2 or three months using Twitter and a Groupon Jewpon Coupon style scheme he could easily sign up say 20 million NJs with keen Wall St interest as long as the vehicle can be quickly monetized. Even $20,000 in year one would be enough as long as Mooser can sell very juicy growth projections and the analysts will buy it if he points out how much Twitter went for. They could do a reverse takeover of Judaism and spin Zionism off into a SPV somewhere in the Bolivian jungle. Take away the intermarriage paranoia and introduce some chill along with human rights.

    Should work like a dream

    • just
      just
      August 19, 2014, 5:46 pm

      Brilliant! I’ll second the nomination.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 20, 2014, 3:39 am

        I’ve been urging him to take up the task for weeks. C ‘mon, Mooser, get to it.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 1:07 pm

        RoHa, The only thing I’ve ever led is loss.

    • adele
      adele
      August 19, 2014, 6:34 pm

      of course your fellow MW’ers will get first dibs on the IPO! Too too funny.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 19, 2014, 7:38 pm

        I accept! The first thing I will do, after getting 5 million dollars for research and development, is fly to Israel, and keep right on going. So long suckers!

      • just
        just
        August 19, 2014, 7:39 pm

        YaY!

    • adele
      adele
      August 19, 2014, 6:40 pm

      is it just me or does the below not make any sense whatsoever??

      from the reuben jacobs comment in ha’aretz: ” (and the switch from male to female lineage came about to combat the amount of illegitimate children born after Jewish women were raped by the occupying Roman army)”

      • annie
        annie
        August 19, 2014, 6:57 pm

        the phrasing is not optimum. meaning to combat the loss of those children from being designated jewish.

      • adele
        adele
        August 19, 2014, 7:58 pm

        thanks for clarifying. I usually don’t expend any mental energy on religious mumbo jumbo but that just didn’t make sense the way I was interpreting it.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 2:00 pm

        “the phrasing is not optimum. meaning to combat the loss of those children from being designated jewish.”

        Yes, but it means we’ve been mongrelized! And I thought the blood which flows in my drug-stream was the pure and unalloyed schmaltz, handed down from the Patriarchs with no dilution!

    • lonely rico
      lonely rico
      August 19, 2014, 6:57 pm


      I nominate Mooser to become CEO of NEWJEW PLC.


      I nominate Mooser to become president of the USA !

    • Pixel
      Pixel
      August 19, 2014, 7:13 pm

      .

      All together now,
      repeat after me…

      Give me an “M”.
      M!
      Give me an “O”.
      O!
      Give me an “O-S-E-R”.
      OSER!
      What does it spell?
      MOOSER!
      Say it, again.
      MOOSER!

      YAAAAAAYYYY

    • a blah chick
      a blah chick
      August 19, 2014, 7:24 pm

      You’re going to need consultants, lots of them. May I put myself forward as an advisor on Blah Affairs? I’m losing some of my pension in the Detroit debacle so I don’t come cheap!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 12:52 pm

        Detroit, I would think, might be a perfect place to draw musical talent and inspiration from for the new denomination. I see it as a melding of Gospel music and traditional Jewish liturgical music.

      • just
        just
        August 20, 2014, 12:55 pm

        might want to throw in some Arab hip-hop if you’re drawing from Detroit…..

        just saying.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 1:04 pm

        “might want to throw in some Arab hip-hop if you’re drawing from Detroit…..”

        Absolutely. But believe me, I’m not going to worry about it too much. If there is one thing the new denomination will have in abundance it will be musical talent and competence. I have no doubt of that.

      • just
        just
        August 20, 2014, 1:17 pm

        It will indeed make a joyful noise!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 1:39 pm

        “It will indeed make a joyful noise!”

        There’s gonna be a meeting!

      • just
        just
        August 20, 2014, 1:44 pm

        thanks, Mooser!

        amen.

    • AbigailOK
      AbigailOK
      August 20, 2014, 9:47 am

      @ seafoid LOL! Make the SPV an SUV and drive the thing into a ravine with rocks so that no tree is damaged. Bolivian jungle eh? What would president Morales think of that? Good idea though. In a jungle within a few weeks or maybe sooner everything is overgrown and nothing is seen anymore. Yippeeeeee!!

      • AbigailOK
        AbigailOK
        August 21, 2014, 9:05 am

        And what a meeting it will be! Black gospel is the most spiritual music that goes right through my soul!

        Thank you, Mooser!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 21, 2014, 4:33 pm

        I’ve been a Gospel fan since I was a kid, “The Mighty Clouds of Joy” are some of my favorites, and I love “The Sensational Nightingales” also Margaret Allison. here’s a stunning performance by “The Canton Spirituals”: the song “God Loves You”

  3. just
    just
    August 19, 2014, 5:44 pm

    Thank you Susannah, If Not Now, and JVP.

    There is strength in solidarity– especially when working for justice. Mourning is also critical, as it is a manifestation of respect, and the responsibility of many of us.

  4. Pixel
    Pixel
    August 19, 2014, 7:19 pm

    .
    Susannah, thanks for writing and sharing your journey with MW.

  5. Empiricon
    Empiricon
    August 19, 2014, 7:52 pm

    Wonderful article, wonderful action. As a Christian, I want to echo your sentiment, I am “…also mourning the state of my American [Christian] community…” many of whom also “[seek] to justify these inexcusable acts, straying away from the social justice spirit of tikkun at the foundation of Judaism”AND Christianity. Nothing separates people more than “religion.” Nothing brings people together than recognizing every individual’s humanity.

    • globalconsciousness
      globalconsciousness
      August 19, 2014, 11:15 pm

      I agree with most of what you wrote but is it just religion? It often seems to me that those who profess to be ‘cultural Jews’ are very often the ones who are rational on some many core values and issues but when it comes to discourse on this conflict, they become wrapped up in their Jewish identity and cling to their sense of both ‘jewishness’ and victimhood and sadly lose sight of both rationality and a common humanity….

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 12:56 pm

        “It often seems to me that those who profess to be ‘cultural Jews’ are very often the ones who are rational on some many core values and issues but when it comes to discourse on this conflict, they become wrapped up in their Jewish identity and cling to their sense of both ‘jewishness’ and victimhood and sadly lose sight of both rationality and a common humanity….”

        As I know it, for what my opinion is worth, it’s mostly pretext and pretension. When those self-serving attitudes are no longer fashionable, accepted or uh, useful they will drop ’em like a stone.

  6. Citizen
    Citizen
    August 19, 2014, 9:27 pm

    Thanks, Susannah. Keep it up.

  7. jayn0t
    jayn0t
    August 19, 2014, 10:02 pm

    “One participant talked about his family’s experiences in the Holocaust. He explained that no amount of violence, of killing of civilians, is going to bring about security.”

    But suppose a certain amount of violence, of killing of civilians, would bring about security. Would Susannah Nachenberg be in favor of it? And if not, why mention it?

  8. globalconsciousness
    globalconsciousness
    August 19, 2014, 11:08 pm

    With academics like these, pity the students…

    “The only thing that can deter terrorists, like those who kidnapped the children and killed them, is the knowledge that their sister or their mother will be raped.” This assertion was made by Middle East scholar Dr. Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University about three weeks ago on an Israel Radio program. “It sounds very bad, but that’s the Middle East,” added Kedar, of Bar-Ilan’s Department…

  9. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    August 20, 2014, 3:56 am

    Hello Susanna Nachenberg. I do not come to comment on your opposition to the killing of Palestinians in Gaza over the last two months. I am sure that your parameters for a solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict are not identical to mine, but no matter. I come to comment about how the different branches of Judaism can possibly talk to each other.

    I favor Israel talking to Hamas and some type of creativity to improve the situation of Hamas as written by Amir Oren in the Haaretz of Aug. 20th expresses my hopes regarding Israel and her neighbors to the south.

    I oppose the status quo regarding the west bank and gaza. I would have reacted differently to the reconciliation talks between fatah and Hamas.

    Yet, when you state: I and my position are the righteous ones who believe in tikkun and those who oppose my position, they are blind murderers, then you are not in effect communicating with the people you disagree with, but merely using them as a prop to make some sort of statement.

    The “our way or the highway” attitude of Jewish organizations to nonZionists and antiZionists has set a tone that is not conducive to communication. Granted. But your communication, which is not really an attempt to communicate, but to use a megaphone, follows in the same tone as that set by those organizations.

  10. straightline
    straightline
    August 20, 2014, 6:44 am

    Strawman alert!

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 20, 2014, 12:58 pm

      “Strawman alert!”

      Don’t worry, there plenty of matches.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 20, 2014, 1:47 pm

        You know, that gives me an idea for a very effective ritual, fully in line with the oldest Jewish sacrificial traditions. And unlike so many things Zionists do, it doesn’t involve a live goat. or even dead boys.

      • just
        just
        August 20, 2014, 1:51 pm

        Pray tell…

        Bear in mind that most straw men (and women) are lacking a brain and other necessary qualities.

        (Oz didn’t come thru. Neither have others)

    • AbigailOK
      AbigailOK
      August 21, 2014, 10:31 am

      @Straightline Read this for a change. Oh, and let no one react on the titel CD put after the slash. Entirely their idea. http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

  11. Larrysturn
    Larrysturn
    August 20, 2014, 9:35 am

    Many have died and the calculus of war is a terrible thing indeed. Israel has spent millions of dollars on a Code Red system to alert it people and countless millions more on building the shelters necessary to protect its people. If not for the Iron Dome air defense system built by Rafael with significant American investment some 600 rockets, mostly the upgraded M75’s would have hit populated areas in Ashkelon, Beersheva, Dimona, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and beyond and inflicted casualties that would have been more proportionate for you. In Gaza, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Army of Islam and others fire all their weapons at the civilian population of Israel and spent millions of dollars building the offensive tunnels from Gaza into Israel to threaten and kill the civilian population of the Negev. The other tunnels they built under Gaza protect their warriors and do not provide shelter to their own civilian population. I am a Jew, (like many) who mourns every death. But I will not do it blindly.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      August 20, 2014, 11:25 am

      Thanks Larry

      Very helpful. If you kill a Palestinian family does it count as a mitzvah ? Or is it just one of those things that happens in a system of apartheid ?

    • eljay
      eljay
      August 20, 2014, 11:35 am

      >> Larrysturn @ August 20, 2014 at 9:35 am

      Lots of words in that post, but no mention of:
      – Jewish terrorism;
      – the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands;
      – the establishment of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel in Palestine; and
      – the supremacist state’s 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder.

      Funny how that happens…

      • AbigailOK
        AbigailOK
        August 21, 2014, 10:01 am

        @eljay

        Amen. Funny indeed or – since I am still angry at the ongoing slaughter of innocents in Gaza – shameful for the lack of another word.

        @Larrysturn They must show who’s boss with their high-tech weapons to show those Untermenschen that there is no resistance against them allowed. So the orcs of israel bomb whole families and wipe them out. Day in night out. Imagine that. No water, no food, and losing everything you have. If that is not enough the shithoses steal your money and jewellery just to make sure you are and stay destitute.
        But, oh, their rockets can now reach us. Yeah….isn’t that terrible that the concentration camp inmates still have some energy to fight back? Why not show us some history about the Warsaw ghetto uprising and the uprising in Sobibor for a change? Let’s have it, Larry.
        Show us some one-sided wicked reaction from you, another apologist or strawman. BTW My family was wiped out in Sobibor and Auschwitz. So don’t bother to come up with that…..wicked sh*t. Don’t use that genocide to cover our genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza and, slower, in the West Bank. Turn around, Larry and wash the dirt out of your eyes.

  12. CitizenC
    CitizenC
    August 20, 2014, 9:40 am

    Yet more “Jewish debate.” The protestors act “as Jews”, not as American citizens. Support for Israel is a Jewish internal issue. They mourn “the community” not its victims in Palestine and southwest Asia, and the US, as on 9/11, which was mainly an attack on US support for Israel. Yet this liberal Jewish narcissism is viewed as heroic and exemplary.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 20, 2014, 1:23 pm

      “The protestors act “as Jews”, not as American citizens.”

      No, not exactly. It’s pretty much their rights as American citizens, even if they are arrested, which keep some Federation goons from pulling them into a room and beating the tar out of them. Or simply disappearing the leader. And saying “It’s a Jewish community matter” But Jews wouldn’t? So there’s pretty much an interesting mix of as Americans and as Jews.

  13. CitizenC
    CitizenC
    August 20, 2014, 3:15 pm

    Mooser, is it really so complicated? They are “Jewish Voices”, they organize “as Jews”, they don’t appeal to gentiles to join them, because these are displays of “Jewish dissent”. They implicitly (and explicitly, in JVP literature) accuse gentiles of anti-Semitism by these Jews-only exercises. (“If we don’t showcase ‘Jewish dissent’ constantly the gentiles will think askance of us”). Never mind the immense damage Zionism is doing in the world. The main thing is Jewish interest.

    I have zero appetite for an extended discussion. I will let Moose have his call and bow out.

  14. Mooser
    Mooser
    August 20, 2014, 8:01 pm

    “Mooser, is it really so complicated? They are “Jewish Voices”, they organize “as Jews”, they don’t appeal to gentiles to join them, because these are displays of “Jewish dissent”.”

    Guess you will have to convert if you want to get in on all this fun.

  15. Sudhama
    Sudhama
    August 21, 2014, 11:34 am

    jvp is one of the most awesome groups to come out of america in a long time. u guys rock!

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