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After a hard week in the news, Israeli gets valentines all weekend from NPR

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I thought Israel had a bad week. There was all the fearful boycott talk by Netanyahu and his ministers, from Herzliya to New York, not to mention the prime minister compelling the head of the French telecom Orange to come to Jerusalem to apologize for saying he wanted to leave Israel. The Financial Times calls boycott, divestment and sanctions Israel’s latest existential threat.

And there was that Israeli military report whitewashing the country of any war crimes during its attack on Gaza a year ago in which 2200 Palestinians were killed. The slaughter of the four boys on the Gaza beach last July– no problem, the Israeli report said; and the world is shocked.

Well, TGIF- and TGINPR too! You’d never know Israel was having a hard week on National Public Radio this weekend. I get a lot of my news from NPR (and yes I contribute) and they ran one happy story after another.

Yesterday I was painting a door when I thought I heard an Israeli accent, and yes– Arun Rath was interviewing the Israeli writer Etgar Keret about his new memoir. Keret spoke about Palestinians rockets hitting near Tel Aviv; and there was not a word about all the Israeli missiles that hit Gaza:

The moment that you hear the alarm, if you’re in the middle of the street then you have 30 seconds, you know, to find a hiding or if you don’t have a hiding to lie on the ground. And I was with my wife and son when the alarm went off and it was like the first time in his life that he was in a missile attack and we asked him to lie on the ground.

And he said, “If it’s too dirty to eat from it when something falls on it, then it’s too dirty to lie on it.” And you find yourself that you have kind of 25 seconds to convince your son to lie down. And you don’t want to be stressful, you don’t want to shout at him.

So I suggested to him a game called “Pastrami Sandwich,” in which my wife lies on the ground and he lies on her and I lie on him and together we form this pastrami sandwich and he kind of liked it because it was warm and cozy. And after the missile attack, he asked me if I can promise him that there would be more missile attacks so we can play the game again.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t hear Israeli stories. But remember, five Israeli civilians were killed in the war a year ago. And one of them was a child. By contrast, more than five hundred Palestinian children were killed. Would NPR cover the Ukraine or Syria– any other foreign conflict, with similar imbalance, even if it was a cultural story? I don’t think so. Not on the week that Israel gave itself a pass for slaughtering four boys playing soccer, saying they believed they were part of the Hamas Navy, whatever that is. The NPR coverage reflects pro-Israel bias.

Then today I slept in and turned on the radio at 8:30 when I was brushing my teeth and — another Israeli accent!

The report was “Israel bringing its years of desalination practice to California,” by Emily Harris. What a feel-good story. An Israeli company is helping build a big new desalination plant near San Diego to help California. But San Diego was mentioned only once more. This was about Israel’s water policy.

The story was about the miracle of Israel’s extracting fresh water from salt water. As if it’s the only country that does this. “Israel has learned, desalination is not the only answer.”

The story was about Israeli water policy; and there was not a mention of all the water that Israel takes from Palestinians, the fact that Israel uses an aquifer in occupied territory and gives its citizens at least 2-1/2 times the amount of water stateless Palestinians get.

Then an Israeli gets to lecture the United States about our water management, how screwed up it is.

[Avraham] Tenne says U.S. drought problems are due to hodgepodge management.

“There is no central management of the water sector in the United States — not even states!” he says. “Nobody is responsible for the water sector.”

Like maybe we should be stealing more water from across borders? I’m not saying that our media shouldn’t report on Israeli desalination efforts. But when I google international desalination, this website tells me that 150 countries around the world practice desalination; and its annual report shows that plenty of other countries beside Israel have large projects. As for San Diego, the LA Times says that a Boston company is building the plant, though Israelis will run it.

And Israel is a foreign country that occupies another people’s land, and water issues are a huge political issue there; and you’d never know that from the NPR report. Americans deserve better.

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123 Responses

  1. amigo
    amigo
    June 14, 2015, 12:29 pm

    “So I suggested to him a game called “Pastrami Sandwich,” in which my wife lies on the ground and he lies on her and I lie on him and together we form this pastrami sandwich and he kind of liked it because it was warm and cozy.”

    Israel plays the “Pastrami sandwich game ” all the time , only they use Palestinians as the meat , sandwiched between illegal settlements.Hardly a condition that conjures up feelings of being warm and cozy.

    Then the ” pièce de résistance:” !!.

    “And after the missile attack, he asked me if I can promise him that there would be more missile attacks so we can play the game again.”

    To which the answer should have been,

    “Sure son, the IDF will make sure you get to play this game for the foreseeable future.

    Not surprising , this zionist comes up with this analogy. Fits nicely in with , “Summer Rains , Cast Lead and Protective edge and let,s not forget , “Mowing the lawn” .

    Sick b——s.

    As for NPR ,they must be getting lots of calls from unhappy zionist contributors who think Israel gets unfair treatment in the MSM.

    NPR should change it,s name to , INPR , (Israeli National Public Radio—US division) .

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      June 14, 2015, 12:42 pm

      NPR could have got the disease that MSM has been infected with.

      The Israeli lobbies keeps spreading the germs.

    • Kris
      Kris
      June 14, 2015, 2:17 pm

      It has really been NZR–National Zionist Radio–for as long as I can remember.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 10:29 am

        I do a lot of street talk reporting/interviewing. I try to ask thoughtful questions. I often ask questions inspired by NPR stories. When I mention NPR…I often get responses like this: “National Communist Radio, National Jewish Radio, National Propaganda Radio, National Socialist Radio.” etc. It used to make me cringe. I live in a very conservative part of the country.

  2. aloeste
    aloeste
    June 14, 2015, 12:41 pm

    no doubt, for we have been complaining about NPR [national palestine radio] for a long time ….

  3. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    June 14, 2015, 12:57 pm

    I stopped listening after 9/11 and have never looked back. Couldn’t stomach their coverage. And this was after having been a devoted listening for nearly thirty years. I wonder how many others they lost like me.

    • surewin
      surewin
      June 14, 2015, 6:26 pm

      It might have taken me until 2005 or so to completely cut NPR off, but shortly after 9/11, when their reporters accepted all of the vocabulary given to them by Cheney and Rumsfeld, I started the process. They called the Guantanamo prisoners “detainees”, and they called a whole wide range of things “weapons of mass destruction”, as they were instructed to do. I would like to think that Phil listens to NPR not to “get his news” but as a self-sacrificing service to his readers.

      I think it’s important to have some boycotts going on in one’s life. I got rid of my television ten years ago, I boycott the New York Times and the New Yorker almost completely, Hollywood movies almost completely. And radio. The only radio I’ll listen to is Joe Frank.

      Any “news” institution with a payroll is easily pressured. Few of them refrain from spinning and twisting their discourse in response. These days you have to get your news and commentary via news aggregators on the web, the best of whom barely make a living, and from carefully chosen podcasts and youtube channels, and the like. I’m grateful to people who monitor the New York Times and so on, but there aren’t many people who can do that without being somewhat affected by the brainwash.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      June 15, 2015, 10:07 am

      I have never stopped listening. It is the tool I use to tune my BS Detector.
      It takes a lot of practice for me to hear the more suble manipulations. To see what is missing/unsaid.

      I use the BBC to even more finely tune. It seems somewhat more honest, but the stories and reporters and hosts are still ridiculously unbalanced. You might think the reporter for India or Venezuela is an example of a broad, liberal organization…until you do a bit of homework and find that reporter is Jewish and the story relects a Zionist Israel agenda.

      I think it might be in order to bring back that report by Walt and (?) which tracked NPR’s bias over a long period of time.

      • Abu Malia
        Abu Malia
        June 15, 2015, 4:13 pm

        “I have never stopped listening. It is the tool I use to tune my BS Detector.
        It takes a lot of practice for me to hear the more suble manipulations. To see what is missing/unsaid.”

        CigarGod, you have a good point with the above comment. However, you apparently have a stronger constitution than i do – i just can’t stomach it. Especially that tongue-smacking fool, whats his name, Seagal?

        My B.S. detector got overloaded and bursted into little pieces long time ago. Now I am operating under the assumption that all that is said by the MSM is B.S. – especially with regards to Zios.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 4:38 pm

        I agree…they are freaking awful!
        The way they guide conversations, reminds me of how bad cops guide the mentally challenged to confess to crimes.
        There is no slimey act they will not perform, in service to The Cause.

    • Abu Malia
      Abu Malia
      June 15, 2015, 12:34 pm

      “I stopped listening after 9/11 and have never looked back. Couldn’t stomach their coverage. And this was after having been a devoted listening for nearly thirty years. I wonder how many others they lost like me.”

      Here is another one they lost blah chick. My breaking point was when they refused to call “torture” torture opting instead for the infamous “enhanced interrogation” euphemism.

      Ughh…the other day while cleaning my wife’s car I turned on the car and the radio was on NPR. Some hack named Mike something was reporting on the Texas pool party police brutality incident. This hack, was saying how this police officer was trying to subdue a uncooperative teenager (read a 14 yearl old child in a bikini) and was compelled to pull his weapon when two “males” ( read two young black boys – children really) approached him in a threatening manner – I immediately shut if off and put on the Scott Horton radio show.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 1:33 pm

        Abu Malia,
        Good point on torture reporting.
        If you recall, it was Democracy Now that exposed the APA for creating/sanctioning torture science/justifications.

        A couple weeks ago…NPR was busy rehabilitating the APA…as they have all the other war criminals.

  4. Mooser
    Mooser
    June 14, 2015, 1:16 pm

    “And he said, “If it’s too dirty to eat from it when something falls on it, then it’s too dirty to lie on it.”

    Gee, who knew they were so aidel gepotchket over in Israel.

  5. sawah
    sawah
    June 14, 2015, 1:19 pm

    So, is a boycott of NPR in order?

    I must say, I am tired of reminding them via email of their biased stories…

    Because they bring up a sympathetic Palestinian story now and then, is that their protection?

    I mean, NPR surely has strong Zionist supporters…but there are supporters ‘on the
    ground’ who might expect more if they knew…..

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      June 15, 2015, 10:41 am

      I also have written and called NPR to correct their bias. No response. When I call one of their state affiliates…the staff…even tho it is Jewish…is often sympathetic and helpful. But, the station managers I have met, spoken with…have all been very Zionist…and I have sometimes had to step back so I dont get covered in heavy showers of the spit flying from their mouths. Very intimidating behavior…until you remember this is the same hysterical behavior we see everyday from jon s, yonah, etc…and just as unreasoned.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      June 15, 2015, 10:47 am

      There was a challenge in congress to their funding/bias a few years ago. If I remember correctly, the bias was excused for the following reasons: Holocaust, bigotry, ebony magazine, native american radio network…and Jews donate most of the money, so the donors get to dictate content, staffing, etc.

  6. joemowrey
    joemowrey
    June 14, 2015, 2:25 pm

    “I get a lot of my news from NPR.”

    Great article. But just as a reminder, what you are getting from NPR is not news. It is propaganda. And not just on the subject of Palestine. Across the board NPR is a source of misinformation and corporate/government spin. If it were giving us anything else, it would be defunded in a jiffy.

  7. Donald
    Donald
    June 14, 2015, 3:59 pm

    I agree with the human rights groups that the rockets are war crimes and I agree with Phil that Israeli stories should be reported, but as danger and drama go, this guy’s rocket story is a lot less impressive than the stories you hear on the weather channel–hell, I personally have experienced situations that were probably more dangerous than being out in the open when a Hamas rocket was going to land somewhere. Admittedly in my stories it was my own damn fault–I got caught while running a mile from my parents’ house when a derecho hit, for instance. That was exciting. My fault because I knew a squall line was approaching, but didn’t know just how quickly.

    People run to storm shelters and basements all the time in the US (done that too) and the difference is that there really isn’t anything one can do about severe thunderstorms and tornadoes except seek shelter, but if the Israelis don’t like the rockets, they could try treating Palestinians like human beings. Instead, they treat them like animals and then complain when their children are endangered–at least when I went for a run with a cold front approaching I only endangered myself. Oh, another difference–tornadoes are vastly more dangerous than Hamas rockets. An individual tornado can do as much damage to a neighborhood as an Israeli military operation. My point is not that rockets are okay because tornadoes are worse, but just that the rocket danger is hyped and there is something the Israeis could do about it that doesn’t involve killing 500 children.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      June 15, 2015, 10:51 am

      The Hamas rocket hysteria also works because humans are bad at calculating odds.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        June 15, 2015, 1:00 pm

        Excellent point CigarGod, seems they cannot look at the stats and realize damage is always minimum unlike when Israel mows the lawn.

        Just curious, but were you the same CigarGod in Huffpost. I had a friend over there, and missed this person when he/she stopped commenting. I am not a commenter any more.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 1:18 pm

        Yes, Kay.
        That was me.
        I left when The Huff took a hard 6g turn to the right…and all the reasonable people left.
        When toying with jon s, yonah, etc. I often think of the twin brothers over there. Dont recall their names, (one used dr. Who photo) but they finally got booted…when the community got enough dirt on them.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        June 15, 2015, 1:49 pm

        It was quite ugly over there, when hasbarats were able to spew horrible, and even personal attacks. One even told me I should get cancer!!!! So much for God’s chosen who do the work of the devil. Anyway, I missed your “presence” when you left, and also your great comments.

        When they linked membership to FB, I decided I could not participate, for one thing I do not have FB, and did not want the exposure. What a coincidence we are here right now!

        By the way did you try those “beedis” yet?

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 15, 2015, 4:04 pm

        Yeah, we had a go team going at Huff…but with the sale…it all changed. Yeah, if there has been a shred of honesty between they, I might have had reason to stay. No, I didnt want to pollute my FB with criminal minds, so I didnt link. We are really lucky to have Annie to clean house/mow the lawn as needed.
        No, i need to order those beedis!

  8. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    June 14, 2015, 4:02 pm

    RE: “I suggested to him a game called ‘Pastrami Sandwich’, in which my wife lies on the ground and he lies on her and I lie on him and together we form this pastrami sandwich . . .” ~ Etgar Keret

    MY QUESTION: Is that kosher? ? ?

    IDF Soldier To Be Jailed For Eating Non-Kosher Sandwich – http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2015/06/idf-soldier-to-be-jailed-for-eating-non-kosher-sandwich-on-idf-base-234.html

    • Stephen Shenfield
      Stephen Shenfield
      June 14, 2015, 4:16 pm

      It’s kosher if the pastrami doesn’t contain pork and if margarine is used on the bread. Butter would mix meat with dairy.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        June 14, 2015, 4:52 pm

        Oh! The surprising longevity of the utterly discredited margarine finally explained.
        Many thanks for the insight, Stephen.

      • JLewisDickerson
        JLewisDickerson
        June 14, 2015, 10:56 pm

        A nice, hot Reuben on rye beats pastrami any day. Come and get it!

      • Walid
        Walid
        June 14, 2015, 11:48 pm

        “A nice, hot Reuben on rye beats pastrami any day. Come and get it! ” (JLD)

        Doesn’t take much to beat a fatty pastrami, JLD, ever try a hand-sliced Montreal-style smoked meat sandwich on rye?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 15, 2015, 11:21 am

        This is like the third time in a week that wonderful, fatty, salty and fried and brined food has been discussed. As you are a human being and can pity the unfortunate, please stop. Do you people realize that I am subsisting almost entirely on lettuce? “We’ve got to eat it before it bolts” my wife tells me.

      • JLewisDickerson
        JLewisDickerson
        June 16, 2015, 7:28 pm

        Truth be told, I’m virtually a vegetarian/vegan. I ❤ soy (TSP, texturized soy protein)! ! !

      • eljay
        eljay
        June 16, 2015, 8:02 pm

        || JLewisDickerson: Truth be told, I’m virtually a vegetarian/vegan. I ❤ soy (TSP, texturized soy protein)! ! ! ||

        I’m a big fan of Tofurky deli slices. :-)

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        June 16, 2015, 8:21 pm

        “Do you people realize that I am subsisting almost entirely on lettuce?”

        And a few worms, I presume. Better than sushi, anyway.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 20, 2015, 12:29 pm

        Pity me, RoHa, and remember me in your prayers. The squash are coming on, including 6-foot-long tromboncinos.

  9. Atlantaiconoclast
    Atlantaiconoclast
    June 14, 2015, 4:03 pm

    Just turn off National Propaganda Radio. Do not support NPR.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      June 15, 2015, 10:54 am

      I quit funding a few years ago. They still send the donation envelope. I send it back with note.

  10. eljay
    eljay
    June 14, 2015, 4:08 pm

    I wonder if Mr. Keret believes in and advocates justice, accountability and equality or whether he – like jon s and other Zio-supremacists – instead pines for “peace” while supporting his country’s decades-long and on-going campaign of intransigence, belligerence, occupation, colonization and sundry (war) crimes.

  11. June 14, 2015, 5:31 pm

    Notice too a large increase of late in the aren’t-we-great promos on NPR.

    Someone made the observation (on jumptheshark) that The Daily Show started taking itself too seriously after they stopped trumpeting their show in the opening credits as “The most important television show — ever.” Not surprisingly, that happened, if I remember correctly, immediately after 9/11.

  12. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    June 14, 2015, 7:41 pm

    I believe that Mr Keret is the same individual who wrote an article, in the wake of Kashua’s leaving for America, saying he would never leave Israel.

    Well why should he? He’s a white Jewish male who can expect to be treated with due deference.

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      June 14, 2015, 8:22 pm

      a blah chick- Here is a link to an exchange of letters between Keret and Kashua. I believe your summary of Keret’s stance with its implications of disdain for Kashua’s reactions to be totally off base. You owe your fellow mondoweiss readers an apology for being misleading, unless you can come up with some link that casts his reputation in the shadow that you were shining upon him.

      http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/tell-story-happy-ending-exchange-etgar-keret-sayed-kashua

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        June 14, 2015, 9:09 pm

        No one except perhaps Mr. Fredman can shine a shadow. Did you mean that that Keret, ehm, person, is nobler than depicted? Also, I can read too, and there was no implication of anything. Are you lawyering up for another whiny federal case? Are the Mondoweiss readers, to a man, fans of a Zionist scribbler, that they absolutely are “owed” explanations on a non-existent “implication”?
        I, for one, a Mondoweiss reader, hereby declare zilch interest in any such explanations.
        I suggest reading the following, which is much more informative than the ridiculous shit in the New Yorker:
        http://mondoweiss.net/2014/10/indian-letter-occasion

      • a blah chick
        a blah chick
        June 14, 2015, 9:21 pm

        What I offered was an opinion on why Keret would not feel the same pressures to leave Israel that Kashua felt. I don’t think it the least bit misleading but you are entilted to your opinion as well.

      • annie
        annie
        June 14, 2015, 9:26 pm

        You owe your fellow mondoweiss readers an apology for being misleading

        yonah, you were being misleading in a much more odious way when you stated the plo charter “included the odious expulsion” of jews http://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/practicing-standard-countries#comment-774425 as did the one state solution and by extension the bds campaign. and you admitted at the link i just provided your statement was “confusing” and later admitted “In fact there is no statement of compulsory expulsion” but went on to claim it was “implied”.

        don’t you think, under the circumstances of you thinking you’re in some position of dishing out what others “owe” readers here, you owe us all an apology for being misleading?

      • can of worms
        can of worms
        June 15, 2015, 3:17 am

        echinococchus, thank you for the superb link to Hatim Kanaaneh.

        Hatim Kanaaneh is criticizing the NYT caption which ridiculously starts, “Kashua, who was born in the predominantly Arab town of Tira….”

        To this he quips, “’Predominantly’ as in ‘one hundred percent’” ; “An essential element of truth [100% segregation] is missing here that doesn’t even occur to the American reader. The smoke screen is so heavy one doesn’t even know it is there”; “ The reader is left with the impression that Arabs and Jews in Israel mix at will in their residential choices. But Mr. Keret, you and I know that Arabs and Jews in Israel live in segregated communities. And the racial exclusion mechanism on the Jewish side has just been given the blessing of the Supreme Court of Israel. In so-called mixed cities like Lod and Ramla, Arab slums are separated from Jewish neighborhoods by concrete walls and barbed wire.”

        So let’s first agree to a basic civil rights axiom: in 100% segregated cities there can’t be a question of equal power.

        If this is agreed, let’s go a step further.

        All Palestinians everywhere need is equal rights, AND power.

        Palestinians say BDS, but citizens wait for the Zionist court every time one of us gets brains to attempt moving their family out of the ghetto into Jewish Only Land.

        Of course, some people like living in the ghetto. Because they think the big advantages of living close and cuddly outweighs economic strength, liberty and power. Still others like the ghetto because they’ve become big doctors in Jewish cities and party members in the Knesset. Here we have Odeh giving up refugee rights in all of Palestine, promoting “the right of the Palestinian people to have their own state”; “his audience will include every major Israeli politician…and Sarkozy.” (He’s been promised “committees” to “discuss” “reforms”.)

        It’s not that Palestinians don’t have power in reserve. The one single thing Jewish Israelis are scared the hell of is those on the inside of the power structure. The citizens.

        We all know Palestinian citizens are brutally put down every time they protest against inequality. Because they don’t have power.

        Those Labor liberals, those Jewish Israeli Ashkenazim with real estate, will freak out when the talk comes round to reducing that 100% segregation to 0%. There may be some White Flight, but then, where to run to keep that real estate value? Not to speak of those who don’t even know there IS a segregated Jewish State, because their segregated school made sure they will never see any human forms there.

      • Boo
        Boo
        June 15, 2015, 9:57 am

        “the shadow that you were shining upon him.”

        You’re asking the impossible. It’s only you and your fellow hasbaristas who can “shine shadows” on people and situations. The rest of us try to shine light on them.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        June 15, 2015, 11:39 am

        can of worms,
        Thank you for opening my eyes about another dimension of the problem.
        I’d love to share your optimism but my fear is that reducing segregation from 100% toward 0%, as you so appropriately say, may well have to be forced by circumstances so catastrophic that cancellation of all abusive real estate can also be enforced. Or fail to happen at all, due to the elimination of the conquered population.

      • can of worms
        can of worms
        June 15, 2015, 3:40 pm

        @echinococcus, the Munayyer-Beinart debates convinced me again that Israel’s regimes of segregation are not just a dimension of the problem, it is the core. You can’t ‘end’ apartheid in israel, Israel IS apartheid. So much is riding on theJewish State’s internal segregation alone: mass ignorance, mass self-entitlement, ominpotence, American donations, weapons selling, killings, massacres. Now they’ve tortured a 22 year old Palestinian to death by making him lie under a truck dying for three hours, while forbidding anyone to help him. Hyper-segregation inside Israel is why it can go on. But if you weaken the core columns of internal segregation the structure of inequality collapses.

        Reducing that segregation from 100% down to none? Ya it’s a revolutionary task, no one looks for easy struggle. The regime of segregation can be unconsciously brought down by the force of circumstance, or, it can be brought by consciousness and organization.

  13. for-peace
    for-peace
    June 15, 2015, 1:58 am

    I too had been an NPR listener/supporter for over three decades. Though I felt its perspective can be narrow minded when it comes to international affairs at times, I have accepted it as par for the course in comparison with other mainstream media outside the US.
    Within the last year, I too started noticing something funny going on with NPR when it comes to all matters Israel.
    The first instance was the reporting of the tragic death of Kayla Mueller. While most news outlets provided Kayla’s activism and humanitarian efforts starting in the Palestinian territories, NPR reports of the tragic event just skipped any mention of Palestinians while extensively covering all her other volunteer efforts in the Middle East. It was like listening to a young child conveniently omitting a troublesome part in a story.

    A few days ago, I was traveling out of town and happened to be tuned to a local NPR channel in the rental car. There was a story regarding African migrants. As I listened with interest, the story ended with the punchline that these two migrants were intending to travel to Israel. At that point, I had to laugh. Of all the masses looking for a better future in Africa, they found the couple aiming to settle in Israel, where the effort to reconcile superiority of a religion with democracy continues in this day and age.

    These NPR episodes make me think something akin to “placement” is going on where Hollywood movies feature commercial products in the natural flow of a film story in return for advertising payments.

  14. CigarGod
    CigarGod
    June 15, 2015, 11:05 am

    You get it, ol’ pard.
    Advertsing is considered the content. The stories are the filler. The advertisers provide the stories, NPR runs them.

  15. Hugo Pharr
    Hugo Pharr
    June 15, 2015, 3:26 pm

    For God’s sake can somebody please explain to this man’s son the reasons why he has to endure the “pastrami sandwich game”. This article underlines the fact that israelis, who seem to think that they are being under intense bombardment, need to gain a sense of justice and care for humanity.
    He should take his son and show him the destruction in Gaza,and tell him this is hardship, which israel has inflicted upon the people of Gaza.People like Edgar Keret would do much better to stop playing the “victim” and be truthful to his son about the reasons for his inconvenience,for that’s all it is (in comparison).
    It seems that Palestine is a virtually forgotten crisis. Is it too much to expect israeli citizens,who have a conscience, to speak out in opposition to this regime of apartheid and murder. Please.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      June 16, 2015, 11:41 am

      “For God’s sake can somebody please explain to this man’s son the reasons why he has to endure the “pastrami sandwich game”.”

      I thought that was really sick, and a really, really cheap literary stunt ‘Look! With our own flesh we protect our children.’ I better go rinse my mouth.

  16. jon s
    jon s
    June 15, 2015, 4:15 pm

    When you’re under rocket fire from the terrorists in Gaza, concerned with protecting your family, as described by Etgar Keret, it’s very difficult to simultaneously feel sympathy for the people of Gaza. I tried to do so last summer, to remember that the people in Gaza were being deliberately sacrificed by Hamas, but it was an effort.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      June 15, 2015, 5:07 pm

      “I tried to do so last summer, to remember that the people in Gaza were being deliberately sacrificed by Hamas, but it was an effort.”

      Gosh, what an officious and blandly hypocritical little git you are, “Jon s”.

    • Froggy
      Froggy
      June 15, 2015, 5:13 pm

      That’s what happens to thieves.

      People shoot things at them… things like rockets. If injured or killed, the thieves’ families are ‘collateral damage’.

      As the song says: ‘every form of refuge has its price’.

    • Kris
      Kris
      June 15, 2015, 5:41 pm

      jon s, if you had to worry about unguided rockets from Gaza, you were on land that belongs to the Palestinians.

      When the families in Gaza are under fire from the terrorists in Israel, it’s very difficult for me to simultaneously feel sympathy for the despicable Jewish colonialist thieves, many of them from the U.S. I try to do so, to remember that the “settlers” are being used as human shields by Israel, but it is an effort.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      June 16, 2015, 1:46 am

      oh boo hoo.

      Just imagine being a Palestinian family wiped out by zionist terrorists with HE guided explosives .. In other words done intentionally with cold blood and pure intent. Your family would be harmed only by bad luck.

      You haven’t clarified where you live and I understand that but as others have pointed out, if you live in fear of Gaza rockets then you live on stolen land. It matters not that you make payments for it. The heel of your boot is on a Palestinian neck or grave headstone.

  17. jon s
    jon s
    June 16, 2015, 2:49 am

    My family and I are civilians, living in Israel, not the occupied territories. In other words, we’re not “settlers” , as the term is used these days. We don’t live on stolen land.
    It’s the Hamas terrorists who deliberately target innocent civilians.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      June 16, 2015, 3:12 am

      If you live in sederot or ither ethnically cleansed land then you kive on stolen land. It would too hard to overlook your qualification of the phrase stolen land. There are other communities that are similarly built on stolen land within Israel. Stolen land and it’s original owners denied the tight of return as required by IHL to which Israel had agreed.

      It’s the terrorist state of Israel which intentionally targets civilians with high explosives ensuring a large overkill and knowingly takes out children, women, thed and infirm, hospitals, doctor, teachers, civilian infrastructure… The list could go on and on as you well know.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        June 16, 2015, 3:22 am

        Old Geezer (but I see you’re so young you could pass for a kid…)
        Can we please stop complying with the Zionist nonsense of renaming places that have perfectly appropriate names of their own? Sederot my left ear, that place is Najd, birthplace of very dear friends. Let’s please try to keep alive the memory of all murdered towns.

      • Kris
        Kris
        June 16, 2015, 1:58 pm

        @ echinoccus:

        Can we please stop complying with the Zionist nonsense of renaming places that have perfectly appropriate names of their own? Sederot my left ear, that place is Najd, birthplace of very dear friends. Let’s please try to keep alive the memory of all murdered towns.

        Renaming places that have perfectly appropriate names of their own is an important part of cultural genocide, so of course it’s an important chapter in Zionism’s handbook of genocidal practice and procedure. Good article here–apparently Canada is trying to right some of its own colonialist, genocidal wrongs: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/06/08/canada-should-replace-colonial-place-names-with-indigenous-ones.html From the article:

        A preoccupation with toponymy, or place names, may seem trivial or irrelevant in light of last week’s report by the Canadian Truth and Reconciliation Commission. But in some ways, and in many places, the map of contemporary Canada reflects the “cultural genocide” perpetrated against aboriginal peoples. The renaming of prominent geographical features has the potential to acknowledge Indigenous history, celebrate Aboriginal resilience and help turn the page on Canada’s dark colonial past.

        A prime example is the Canadian Arctic Archipelago, which includes some of the world’s largest islands. Maps of Northern Canada depict islands named Victoria, Prince Patrick, and King William (for English royals); Baffin, Bathurst and Melville (for English bureaucrats); Devon, Southampton and Ellesmere (for English places). Ellef Ringnes and Axel Heiberg stand out only for the fact that these islands are named, bizarrely, for Norwegian brewers.

        What no official map shows is the names given to these majestic places by the Inuit who spend all or part of their lives there — and who have done so since long before the land was explored or claimed, in all its vastness, by European states. To speakers of Inuktitut, for example, Victoria Island is Kitlineq, Baffin Island is Qikiqtaaluk and Devon Island is Tatlurutit.

        The latter names have contextual meaning and resonance. They inspire and they evoke. Their supplanting by the mundane toponymy of 19th-century European explorers and royals is, at best, arrogant and insensitive. At worst, such place names are part and parcel of the historical “policy to eliminate Aboriginal people as distinct peoples,” as impugned by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        June 16, 2015, 7:10 pm

        I understand your point.

        In Australia we do keep a lot of Aboriginal names (not the Aborigines themselves, of course) for places, even though we forget that the names mean “Don’t camp here , you idiots. It’ll be flooded when the rains come.” In Brisbane we have suburbs called Kelvin Grove, Newmarket, and Wavell Heights, but also Toowong, Enogerra, and Indooroopilly.

        And some names have been revived. I admit, though, I struggle to remember to say “Uluru” rather than “Ayer’s Rock”.

        “Baffin Island is Qikiqtaaluk and Devon Island is Tatlurutit.

        The latter names have contextual meaning and resonance.”

        But mostly I’d be concentrating on pronouncing them. Yet the other names also have meaning and resonance. The arrival of the British and French explorers is also part of the history of Canada.

        And I’m in favour of honouring brewers.

    • Atlantaiconoclast
      Atlantaiconoclast
      June 16, 2015, 11:05 am

      This use of the word “deliberate” means nothing if we can’t call Israel’s killing of civilians deliberate. Israel KNOWS that it will kill many innocents when it attacks Palestinian areas, but does so anyway. That is deliberate. And THAT is truly terrorism. How many civilians did Hamas kill last year? Five? How many did the IDF kill?

    • talknic
      talknic
      June 16, 2015, 6:19 pm

      @ jon s

      “My family and I are civilians, living in Israel, not the occupied territories”

      Strange. Be’er Sheva has never been legally acquired by Israel by any agreement.

      “It’s the Hamas terrorists who deliberately target innocent civilians”

      A) Illegal settlers are not innocent civilians. Elsewhere B) under the Laws of War, Art. 25. it is permissible to bombard towns and villages that are defended. All Israeli cities, towns and villages are defended. Collateral is highly likely.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 6:23 pm

        Awesome post!

  18. echinococcus
    echinococcus
    June 16, 2015, 3:14 am

    John S,

    I doubt that you are a civilian. You have been in reserve and maybe still on reserve. That is not a civilian. Besides, you wouldn’t really like being counted as a civilian while being a brave little propaganda soldier, would you?

    If you live in “Israel”, that is occupied territory anywhere, a part of Palestine confiscated and occupied by Zionist invaders by the force of arms and right of conquest, no matter which colonial allies of Zionism approved it in valueless UN recommendations. That the occupation was pre- or post-1967 only has detail value.

    You certainly do live on stolen land in terms of sovereignty and highly probably stolen land in real estate terms.

    Which innocent civilians were “targeted” by Hamas, by the way? All I can see is a couple uniformed murderers, perhaps an occasional settler, by definition a war criminal.

  19. jon s
    jon s
    June 16, 2015, 4:06 am

    oldgeezer, Again, I don’t live on stolen land, unless you consider all of Israel as such.

    The IDF makes a real effort to reduce civilian casualties. Could it do even more? I suppose it could. On the other side, we’ve seen how the Hamas terrorists use hospitals, schools, mosques and civilian residences for military purposes, deliberately causing civilian casualties among their own people.

    • Walid
      Walid
      June 16, 2015, 4:33 am

      jon s, the land on which you are living may not be stolen but as with the rest of every Israeli irrespective of where they are living, you are assuredly living off the stolen fruit of the land. Over half of the water you are consuming is stolen and this cannot be denied.

    • talknic
      talknic
      June 16, 2015, 7:59 am

      @ jon s June 16, 2015, 4:06 am

      ” I don’t live on stolen land, unless you consider all of Israel as such”

      All Israelis benefit from Israel’s illegal exploitation of non-Israeli resources in all the territories Israel has claimed to occupy since proclaiming its borders effective 00:01 May 15th 1948, none of which has ever been ceded or legally annexed to Israel by any agreement.

      “The IDF makes a real effort to reduce civilian casualties.”

      Bullsh*t! Although it gives forewarning, (by dropping a bombs on roofs FFS) Israel, the Occupying Power, has had all the crossings closed including those between Gaza and Egypt under the 2005 agreement with Egypt thereby preventing civilians from fleeing a war zone, BEFORE attacking, which is illegal under Geneva Convention 1V…Section II..Occupied territories..Art49…The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Civilians could not even flee into the sea, because Israel controls the Palestinian territorial waters.

      “On the other side, we’ve seen how the Hamas terrorists use hospitals, schools, mosques and civilian residences for military purposes, deliberately causing civilian casualties among their own people”

      Strange. Hamas don’t fall out of the sky, they are their own people. All of them have family, brothers, sisters, parents, wives, grandparents. If you think they purposefully cause their deaths you have rocks in your head.

      Israel actually needs the Palestinians to have military in civilian areas because under the Laws of War, Art. 25. The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.

      However, the Palestinians have no defense against Israel’s war ships miles off the coast or Israel’s guided missiles or war planes. Israel’s use of that weaponry is illegal. Only the US UNSC veto vote saves Israel from the law.

    • eljay
      eljay
      June 16, 2015, 8:01 am

      || jon s: The IDF makes a real effort to reduce civilian casualties. ||

      Yup, you see it every day in the way it:
      – maintains and enforces Jewish supremacism in/and a supremacist “Jewish State” and the decades-long occupation and colonization of Palestine;
      – plows a jeep into a non-Jewish civilian and then spends three hours doing its best to ensure his death;
      – maims, tortures and/or kills unarmed protesters.

      A real “moral beacon”, that IDF is.

      || Could it do even more? I suppose it could. ||

      So do I. :-)

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      June 16, 2015, 8:26 am

      Israeli apologists must stop comparing how militants operate to make them look good, because the so called democracy in the ME has shown time and time again it behaves like terrorists do, killing more civilians than militants. Intelligent Israelis should be able to fathom this out, because numbers don’t lie, nor scenes from an ongoing war. I guess the next step will be to dismiss the UN as not credible. If the IDF makes a “real effort” to reduce civilian casualties, they must be shamefully inept.

      “Israel killed more Palestinian civilians in 2014 than in any other year since the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip began in 1967, a UN report has said.

      Israel’s activities in the Gaza Strip, West Bank and East Jerusalem resulted in the deaths of 2,314 Palestinians and 17,125 injuries, compared with 39 deaths and 3,964 injuries in 2013, according to the annual report (pdf) by the UN Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA).

      The conflict in Gaza in July and August was largely responsible for the dramatic increase in fatalities. It claimed the lives of 2,220 Gazans, of whom 1,492 were civilians, 605 militants and 123 unverified.

      More than 11,000 people were injured and about 500,000 Palestinians were internally displaced at the height of the conflict. About 100,000 remain so.
      There was also a sharp rise in fatalities in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, where 58 Palestinians were killed and 6,028 injured – the highest number of fatalities in incidents involving Israeli forces since 2007 and the highest number of injuries since 2005.

      Most of the incidents took place in the second half of the year, following the abduction and murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir, which led to daily riots and protests in East Jerusalem.”

      Guardian UK.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      June 16, 2015, 8:38 am

      Sorry, dude,
      Your behavior here gives me no confidence in your statement about not living on stolen land. The way you deny, pretzel, excuse, deflect on virtually every topic, is evidence enough of your inability or refusal to be honest.
      I suspect you do live on stolen land, and were we to investigate and prove it, you would still justify and deny.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 16, 2015, 11:33 am

        Notice that even with all of his sanctimonious equivocations, “Jon s” will not say the name of the place!. He’ll tell us what we are supposed to think about it, but he damn sure won’t name it. Who the hell does he think he is fooling?

      • jon s
        jon s
        June 16, 2015, 3:34 pm

        CigarGod, You don’t need much of an investigation. All you have to do is check the record of my comments and you’ll see that on numerous occasions, especially last summer, I mentioned that I live in Be’er Sheva.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 3:46 pm

        Got it.
        Bir Seb’a.
        In 1931, there were 2791 muslims, 152 christians, 11 jews.
        In 1948, IDF took over.

        Nope, no likelyhood at all that you might be living on Palestinian land…maybe even in a Palestinian house.

      • eljay
        eljay
        June 16, 2015, 3:45 pm

        || jon s: … I live in Be’er Sheva. ||

        Israeli Army Builds a Desert Outpost—Tech Firms Follow

        BE’ER SHEVA, Israel—A global tech hub is sprouting in the Israeli desert.

        Over the next decade, Israel’s army is moving a large portion of its offices—including those of many of its key technology commands—out of the greater Tel Aviv area and relocating them some 60 miles south, to this city in Israel’s rock-strewn Negev desert.

        Already a legitimate military target (The largest employers in Be’er Sheva are the … Israel Defence Forces … ), your government is about to make it an even more-legitimate target.

      • catalan
        catalan
        June 16, 2015, 4:18 pm

        “Bir Seb’a. In 1931, there were 2791 muslims, 152 christians, 11 jews. In 1948, IDF took over – ” cigar
        Smyrna. in 1905, there were 100,356 Muslims, 73,636 Orthodox Christians, 11,127 Armenian Christians, and 25,854 other. In 1923 te Turkish army took over and killed/expelled virtually all Christians.
        Cigar, change the name of the town and ethnicity (Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Russian, Armenian, Azeri, etc) and you will have ten thousands such towns – in Europe, Asia, Africa, everywhere.
        That’s the story of the 20th century – it’s one of displacement. Why do you focus on Beersheva with no context?

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 5:16 pm

        I guess you have to do your homework and read up-thread. The context is there. But as usual, talking is more important than reading…and the talk is always the same: Deflect, deflect, deflect. Why do you keep trying to sell me a piano, when I came in to buy a violin?

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 16, 2015, 5:50 pm

        @ jon s “I live in Be’er Sheva”

        When was Be’er Sheva legally annexed to Israel? Date, signatories on the agreement please …. thx I’ll wait

        Meanwhile, Be’er Sheva was not proclaimed as Israeli in the Israeli Government’s plea for recognition. http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk Subsequently it has never been recognized as Israeli.

        https://talknic.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/beersheba.jpg

    • michelle
      michelle
      June 16, 2015, 10:35 am

      .
      one wonders
      how much was paid to the willing sellers who owned/lived on the land before Isreal took over
      if i understand how this all came about England is the one that gave the Jewish people
      property that was already owned/claimed
      if this is true one has to wonder what England was thinking
      or for that matter the other world powers who were aware of what was being done
      .
      G-d Bless
      .

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 10:42 am

        We have recorded stories of such “willing” sellers.
        Both anti-zionist Jew and Palestinian…terrorized by the new Modern Zionists into selling.

      • michelle
        michelle
        June 16, 2015, 11:52 am

        .
        witnessed and recorded by England otherwise invalid
        being as the property was under English protection/rule
        and as such rule/power could not be transfered without
        the proper considerations toward the property owners
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 12:27 pm

        Right…nice orderly process, that. Especially, the…bulldozing of 500+ villages (with incidental slaughter) How many individual land deeds?
        We could ask the 750k who decided to move to the more temperate clim’s…of refugee camps…about that orderly British process. Their words are the one’s that count.

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 16, 2015, 6:00 pm

        “how much was paid to the willing sellers who owned/lived on the land before Isreal took over “

        Irrelevant. Jewish settlers (pre 15th May 1948) bought ‘real estate’, not territory. Japanese corporations and Japanese citizens own real estate in Australia, it doesn’t give them any territorial rights what so ever.

        One doesn’t need a deed for territory, it belongs to all its legitimate inhabitants, whether they own real estate, rent or lease real estate or live under a bridge.

        The territory for the Jewish state cost Israel NOTHING!

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 6:11 pm

        Perfect.
        They bought real estate, not a country.

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 16, 2015, 6:40 pm

        @ CigarGod “They bought real estate, not a country”

        and the Israeli Land Fund lie about it http://wp.me/pDB7k-yI

        They’ve lied about everything:
        UNGA res 181 http://wp.me/pDB7k-Yx
        Israel did not proclaim any borders http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf
        The UN is biased against Israel http://wp.me/pDB7k-XU
        Arabs are 20% of the population http://wp.me/pDB7k-19Y
        UNSC res 242 demanded negotiations on borders http://wp.me/PDB7k-6r
        Hamas do not wear uniforms http://wp.me/PDB7k-Y#Hamas-uniform
        The three no’s of Khartoum http://wp.me/pDB7k-18N
        Making the desert bloom http://wp.me/pDB7k-BP#peres-deserts-bloom
        Israel is a democracy http://wp.me/pDB7k-D6
        They’ll write a constitution http://pages.citebite.com/p2b0i7o9o6xlh
        Never has a country gone to such extraordinary lengths to remove the enemy’s civilian population from harm’s way http://wp.me/PDB7k-Y#minimizing-civilian-casualties
        etc etc etc
        The stench is overwhelming

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 16, 2015, 7:22 pm

        Thanks for preparing my evening read. Awesome!

      • michelle
        michelle
        June 16, 2015, 8:30 pm

        .
        fine now my good impression of England is a foul wind
        is there no good ‘earth’ to look to as an example
        .
        thanks for all the data
        better to seek/know the truth than to live a lie
        .
        G-d Bless
        .

      • jon s
        jon s
        June 18, 2015, 4:25 am

        eljay,
        In the link you provided, the IDF is listed as one of four major employers in Beer Sheva.
        It’s undeniable that there are military and defense-related facilities in and around the city. That still doesn’t mean that the civilian population is a legitimate target, any more than the civilian population in the DC suburbs could be seen as such because of the proximity to the Pentagon. And there are plenty of other cities in the US with military facilities , think of the naval bases in San Diego and Honolulu and elsewhere.
        The real point is that the IDF is not using hospitals, schools, synagogues and mosques and civilian homes as launching sites, weapons depots and so forth, unlike the Hamas terrorists.

      • jon s
        jon s
        June 18, 2015, 4:34 am

        Michelle,
        Some of the land was purchased before British rule, under the Ottoman Empire.
        The British initially allowed land to be bought and sold. The price was detemined by market forces, supply and demand. In the last years of their rule the British imposed restrictions, in the context of the White Paper, restricting the free market.

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 18, 2015, 5:58 am

        Jon s June 18, 2015, 4:25 am

        “It’s undeniable that there are military and defense-related facilities in and around the city. That still doesn’t mean that the civilian population is a legitimate target, any more than the civilian population in the DC suburbs could be seen as such because of the proximity to the Pentagon.”

        There is no internationally recognized ratio of collateral. An operative on the ground estimates the value of a military target, factors in the likely civilian collateral then knowingly and PURPOSEULLY fires the weapon. Civilians are purposefully made a part of the target. That’s why there IS a rule on proportionality.

        ” And there are plenty of other cities in the US with military facilities , think of the naval bases in San Diego and Honolulu and elsewhere.”

        Once war has been initiated, any military installation or supply line or depot of the enemy is a valid target and nearby civilians can be purposefully and knowingly factored into the target.

        “The real point is that the IDF is not using hospitals, schools, synagogues and mosques and civilian homes as launching sites, weapons depots and so forth, unlike the Hamas terrorists”

        A) The IDF terrorists have no need. B) It’s quite common for people under attack to use what ever they can to store and hide arms, it does not amount to ‘terror’ and is not illegal.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 18, 2015, 8:47 am

        In addition, since only about 26 of the worlds 200 nations designate Hamas a terrorist organization, it seems the world has voted, and they are not.

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 18, 2015, 6:01 am

        jon s “Some of the land was purchased before British rule, under the Ottoman Empire.”

        Irrelevant. Real Estate is not territory. Israel paid nothing for its territory.

        “The British initially allowed land to be bought and sold. The price was detemined by market forces, supply and demand. In the last years of their rule the British imposed restrictions, in the context of the White Paper, restricting the free market.”

        In the context of the LoN Mandate for PALESTINE and everything the Zionist colonizers agreed to and then ignored.

      • eljay
        eljay
        June 18, 2015, 7:36 am

        || jon s: eljay, In the link you provided, the IDF is listed as one of four major employers in Beer Sheva. It’s undeniable that there are military and defense-related facilities in and around the city. That still doesn’t mean that the civilian population is a legitimate target … ||

        Who said anything about the civilian population being a legitimate target? The military and its installations/infrastructure are the legitimate targets; the rest is “collateral damage”. That’s how it works when “we” do it to “them”, so surely you don’t hypocritically object to the same when “they” do it to “us”…right?

        || The real point is that the IDF is not using hospitals, schools, synagogues and mosques and civilian homes as launching sites, weapons depots and so forth, unlike the Hamas terrorists. ||

        The real point is that for almost 70 years the IDF has been a powerful military force of terrorism, ethnic cleansing, oppression, occupation, colonization, devastation and murder.

        But I completely agree with you that the people of Gaza should be equipped with the same highly-sophisticated weaponry and defence systems that the IDF has so that the two sides can conduct their battles on a level playing field.

    • Atlantaiconoclast
      Atlantaiconoclast
      June 16, 2015, 11:03 am

      Israel too has military bases within residential areas. If Hamas were to operate in an open field or some bunker, Israel would simply bomb it to smithereens even faster, not that civilian homes stops Israel.

      • jon s
        jon s
        June 18, 2015, 3:06 pm

        talknic, Are you really saying that using hospitals , schools, mosques and other civilian facilities for military purposes is legal ? As far as I know, it’s a violation of laws and norms.

      • amigo
        amigo
        June 18, 2015, 3:28 pm

        jon ,s , preventing civilians from leaving a war zone is a “War Crime”.

        Dropping white Phosphorous on civilian is a war crime.

        Collective punishment of the civilian population is a War crime.

        Transferring citizens of the Occupying power to occupied territory is a war crime.

        Shall I continue jon s .

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 18, 2015, 5:02 pm

        @ jon s

        “talknic, Are you really saying that using hospitals , schools, mosques and other civilian facilities for military purposes is legal ?”

        What I really wrote is still there.

        ” As far as I know, it’s a violation of laws and norms”

        So cite the law … I’ll wait

        Meanwhile, I’m guessing you also ‘know’ belligerents are required to wear a uniform and that you also know Hamas don’t wear uniforms and that you ‘know’ Israel didn’t declare any borders.

        I’ll bet you know a lot of sh*t!

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 19, 2015, 9:55 am

        Seems jon s has run away

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        June 21, 2015, 1:30 am

        talknic: @ jon s “talknic, Are you really saying that using hospitals, schools, mosques and other civilian facilities for military purposes is legal?” […] ”As far as I know, it’s a violation of laws and norms”

        So cite the law …

        ——————

        IF the civilians in the schools, hospitals, mosques etc. were being used as “human shields” (i.e., “their presence or movement is aimed or used to render military targets immune from military operations” ), then that would be a violation of international humanitarian law, Rule #97:

        https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule97

        —————–

        Amnesty International Q&A:

        The Israeli authorities claim that Hamas and Palestinian armed groups use Palestinian civilians in Gaza as “human shields”. Does Amnesty International have any evidence that this has occurred during the current hostilities?

        Amnesty International is monitoring and investigating such reports, but does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks.

        In previous conflicts Amnesty International has documented that Palestinian armed groups have stored munitions in and fired indiscriminate rockets from residential areas in the Gaza Strip in violation of international humanitarian law.

        Reports have also emerged during the current conflict of Hamas urging residents to ignore Israeli warnings to evacuate. However, these calls may have been motivated by a desire to minimize panic and displacement, in any case, such statements are not the same as directing specific civilians to remain in their homes as “human shields” for fighters, munitions, or military equipment.

        Under international humanitarian law even if “human shields” are being used Israel’s obligations to protect these civilians would still apply.

        https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/07/israelgaza-conflict-questions-and-answers/

        ————–

        Human Rights Watch Q&A:

        3. What are the obligations of Israel and Hamas with respect to fighting in populated areas?

        Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. International humanitarian law does not prohibit fighting in urban areas, although the presence of many civilians places greater obligations on warring parties to take steps to minimize harm to civilians.

        The laws of war require that the parties to a conflict take constant care during military operations to spare the civilian population and to “take all feasible precautions” to avoid or minimize the incidental loss of civilian life and damage to civilian objects.

        These precautions include doing everything feasible to verify that the objects of attack are military objectives and not civilians or civilian objects, and giving “effective advance warning” of attacks when circumstances permit.

        Forces deployed in populated areas must avoid locating military objectives – including fighters, ammunition and weapons — in or near densely populated areas, and endeavor to remove civilians from the vicinity of military objectives.

        Belligerents are prohibited from using civilians to shield military objectives or operations from attack. “Shielding” refers to purposefully using the presence of civilians to render military forces or areas immune from attack.

        At the same time, the attacking party is not relieved from its obligation to take into account the risk to civilians , including the duty to avoid causing disproportionate harm to civilians, simply because it considers the defending party responsible for having located legitimate military targets within or near populated areas.

        http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/08/03/qa-2014-hostilities-between-israel-and-hamas

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        June 21, 2015, 2:51 am

        jon s: Are you really saying that using hospitals , schools, mosques and other civilian facilities for military purposes is legal ? As far as I know, it’s a violation of laws and norms.
        ———————–

        There’s a good discussion of this question here:

        http://opiniojuris.org/2014/08/01/guest-post-use-human-shields-international-criminal-law/

        The post presents a rather pro-Israel legal interpretation, and many of the comments reveal the weaknesses of that position.

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 21, 2015, 7:38 am

        @ Sibiriak

        “IF the civilians in the schools, hospitals, mosques etc. were being used as “human shields” (i.e., “their presence or movement is aimed or used to render military targets immune from military operations” ), then that would be a violation of international humanitarian law”

        Correct. IF they do it to render themselves immune to military operations.

        Otherwise under the laws of war, it simply becomes a belligerent target, subject to the rules of proportionality.

        Furthermore, civilian areas cannot be attacked unless they are protected. Laws of War, Art. 25. The attack or bombardment, by whatever means, of towns, villages, dwellings, or buildings which are undefended is prohibited.

        Under belligerent occupation, one is allowed to resist by whatever means, sans attacking civilians. Gaza and the West Bank are under belligerent occupation.

    • diasp0ra
      diasp0ra
      June 21, 2015, 8:24 am

      Oh please spare us, the SAME exact claims were made during the Lebanon war of 2006, that Hezbollah were using civilians for human shields. Yet the Human Rights Watch investigation report found that there was no evidence to these claims and that Hezbollah did not deliberately use civilians to shield themselves.

      http://www.hrw.org/node/10734/section/10

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 21, 2015, 9:40 am

        Well, you know jon s uses a “Z” micron size filter, so none of the rest of the alphabet makes it into his brain. His back up filter is the O’reilly. As long as Bill looks right into the camera at jon s and says: ‘I’m lookin’ out for you” and points his finger at him…jon s feels he”s got an honest process.

      • Walid
        Walid
        June 21, 2015, 11:45 am

        “Oh please spare us, the SAME exact claims were made during the Lebanon war of 2006, that Hezbollah were using civilians for human shields.” (diaspora)

        Hizbullah fighters were actually fighting from within residential areas, but what the lame-brained Zios could never understand was that these fighters were doing the fighting to defend their homes. One of the findings on the resons behind Israel’s failure to occupy south Lebanon in 2006 was that Hizbullah fighters were assigned to protect their respective villages in contrast to young Israeli soldiers having been thrown in to fight in a foreign country for a cause they didn’t believe in. This was made clearly evident in the battle of Bint Jbail that was so obliterated by the shelling they started comparing it to Stalingrad. Yet, the Israel army of thousands could not take what was left of the city because the Hizbullah fighters there were citizens of Bint Jbail that were fighting for their homes and they knew every nook and cranny of the city. The same scenario was repeated in all the other villages that the IDF tried to enter and they failed at every opportunity. You could say the same of Hamas fighters in Gaza that have nowhere to hide. Saying that Hizbullah and Hamas use human shields is just making excuses for Israel’s failures.

  20. Kay24
    Kay24
    June 16, 2015, 7:55 am

    Israelis have a filthy habit of blaming the entire world for all their ills. They never seem capable of looking at the mirror and realizing that the occupation, illegal settlements and continuous human rights violations could be the cause of world condemnation.

    Michael Oren now blames Obama for “abandoning” Israel. Yeah right. Oren seems to forget
    Israel kept refusing to get to a peace table, and disregards US request to stop the illegal settlements. It is NEVER their fault.

    “Former Israeli Ambassador to U.S. Michael Oren: Obama abandoned Israel
    The Knesset member writes a Wall Street Journal piece accusing Obama of deliberately damaging U.S.-Israel ties.”

    Haaretz article

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.661437

    • jon s
      jon s
      June 19, 2015, 3:38 am

      Talknic,
      You wrote “is not illegal”. (On the military use of civilian facilities). Is that your view?

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 19, 2015, 9:54 am

        @ jon s

        Yes. Do you have any actual evidence to the contrary?

    • jon s
      jon s
      June 20, 2015, 4:44 pm

      talknic,

      “Seems jon s has run away”
      First of all, unfortunately, I can’t spend my whole life commenting on MW, I have a family, a job (and last week was the History matriculation exam), and -believe it or not – other interests.
      Secondly, we’re in way different time zones. A good many hours could pass before I see your comment, and can reply.

      Finally, on topic: I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking that maybe I had misunderstood you, and you were not really saying that the way Hamas uses civilian facilities for military purposes is perfectly legal. Once you made it clear that that’s really your opinion, it was “case closed”.
      It’s noteworthy that other anti-Israel (and pro-Hamas) commenters have usually denied that Hamas has such a strategy at all.

      • ckg
        ckg
        June 20, 2015, 6:22 pm

        jon s: I have a family, a job (and last week was the History matriculation exam)

        As you’re still a student, you and your family may benefit if your apply for a Hasbara Fellowship to earn tuition shekels for your efforts here. I don’t know if they pay by the word count or the epithet count, but either way you should do well.

      • talknic
        talknic
        June 20, 2015, 10:49 pm

        @ jon s June 20, 2015, 4:44 pm

        ” A good many hours could pass before I see your comment, and can reply.”

        You ran away from the question “do you have any evidence to the contrary?”

        “Finally, on topic: I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking that maybe I had misunderstood you, and you were not really saying that the way Hamas uses civilian facilities for military purposes is perfectly legal.”

        Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

  21. jon s
    jon s
    June 19, 2015, 3:40 am

    Amigo,
    A wonderful term I learned right here on Mondoweiss: whataboutery.

    Not to avoid your points:
    On the transfer of population (the settlements) – I agree, and I oppose them, as you probably know by now.
    To the best of my knowledge the use of white phosphorous by the IDF has been discontinued, since “Cast Lead”.
    Collective punishment is wrong in principle, but I really can’t think of any war, even the most justified, in which civilians didn’t suffer. And the principle applies to Israelis as well.

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      June 19, 2015, 4:45 am

      jon s: Collective punishment is wrong in principle, but I really can’t think of any war, even the most justified, in which civilians didn’t sufffer. And the principle applies to Israelis as well.
      ———————

      So, collective punishment is as immoral as terrorism?

      And, isn’t much of Palestinian terrorism tantamount to collective punishment against Israel?

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        June 19, 2015, 9:00 am

        Oh, Jesus Christ!
        There must be a mutant absurdity gene running rampant.

    • jon s
      jon s
      June 23, 2015, 2:07 am

      ckg, I’m not a student, see my profile.

    • talknic
      talknic
      June 19, 2015, 10:07 am

      Thanks for the incriminating link jon s …. keep up th’ good work

      There were no Israeli troops in the UN compound. White phosphorous wasn’t used to shield them from view

      It was the type dispersed in the air over a wide area. So it wasn’t used to mark an enemy target

      It was used in daylight hours. So it wasn’t used to illuminate

      I’m sure you’ll find some other pathetic justification for it having been used, take another sip of Ziobile and get back to me … thx

  22. jon s
    jon s
    June 19, 2015, 4:48 pm

    Talknic, you’re welcome.
    When did I justify the use of wp?

    • talknic
      talknic
      June 20, 2015, 11:00 pm

      @ jon s “When did I justify the use of wp?”

      Uh? I didn’t say you had pal. I leave the false accusations up to Israel’s propagandists

      The photo incriminates Israel. It’s daylight and not of the type used for illumination

      There were no Israeli troops on the ground in the area to hide behind the smoke and; being widely dispersed high in the air, was not for marking a target.

      • jon s
        jon s
        June 21, 2015, 3:05 pm

        I’m certainly not an expert on this, but I understand – and the report says – that wp was used not for illumination, but for smokescreen purposes.
        In any case, as I wrote, the use of wp was discontinued, and as far as I know, there were no allegations regarding wp during last summer’s conflict.

    • amigo
      amigo
      June 21, 2015, 4:26 pm

      “When did I justify the use of wp?” jon s

      I will let talknic deal with that issue but you seem be ok with preventing civilians from leaving a war zone.You failed to condemn the most important point I outlined for you above.

      Question is , how many less civilians would Hamas have been able to (allegedly ) use as human shields or hide behind if Israel did not prevent them from leaving.Besides , Israel has used Palestinians as human shields on many occasions. Google , “Israeli soldiers caught using Palestinians as human shields”.If you have the moral courage, that is.

      .As to whataboutery–well that is the staple diet at hasbara central.You know, what about SA and NK and Pakistan and Al Q and ISIS and Sudan and Syria and , and , and so on and so on.

  23. jon s
    jon s
    June 21, 2015, 3:22 pm

    talknic, it’s pretty clear:

    “Hospitals, both fixed and mobile, ambulances, hospital ships, medical aircraft, and medical personnel—whether civilian or military—are also entitled to protection from hostile fire under the Geneva Conventions, provided that structures are marked with a red cross or red crescent and not used improperly or near military objectives, and staff are properly protected. Staff include not only doctors, nurses, and orderlies, but the drivers, cleaners, cooks, crews of hospital ships—in short, all those who help a medical unit to function. Some aid workers—for example, Red Cross volunteers treating the sick and wounded on the battlefield—are also covered, as are military chaplains. Other than hospitals, certain other buildings cannot be attacked. Places of worship and historic monuments are protected, as are civilian structures like schools and other objects that are not being used to support military activities. Under the 1954 Convention on Cultural Property important places of worship, historic sites, works of art, and other cultural treasures are likewise protected from attack.
    There are exceptions. A school, for example, becomes a legitimate military target if soldiers are based there. With hospitals, the situation is more complicated since they are permitted to keep armed guards on their grounds. But immunity from attack can be lost if the people or objects are used to commit acts that are harmful to one side in a conflict.”
    – See more at: http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/immunity-from-attack/#sthash.zkC7irAB.dpuf

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