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British gov’t welcomes Iran back into the ‘community of nations’ — why can’t we?

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Yesterday President Obama answered critical question after critical question about the Iran deal and repeatedly addressed Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu and even the Israel lobby working in Congress:

My hope is, is that everyone in Congress also evaluates this agreement based on the facts — not on politics, not on posturing… not based on lobbying, but based on what’s in the national interest of the United States of America.”

Obama promised the press that the deal is only about nuclear weapons, and Iran will continue to be frozen out, a rogue state.

But compare that to the British discussion of the deal, and it’s night and day. The Conservative British government regards the deal as a great opening to the Iranians, to include them in the world and make them a good neighbor.

“It’s opening that country up with investment, trade and travel,” Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said in discussion with Parliament on CSpan last night.

Britain wants to open an embassy in Iran by the end of the year, he said, and Brits have to start traveling to Iran and having the person-to-person interactions that will bring Iran back into the world. Iranian students have to be welcome in the west, so we will get to know one another. He expects Iran to play a leverage role over Hamas and Islamic militias in the Levant area.

“Iran is a major player in the region. It can if it chooses play an enormously positive role in the region,” Hammond said.

When a member of Parliament said that the deal would “bring the people of this remarkable nation back into the community of nations,” Hammond agreed.

“There is a huge opportunity to be grasped. It is in our interest and the world’s interest to grasp it.”

The deal gives the west a ten-year window, Hammond said, to change the “Iranian mindset,” and convince that country that the best future is one of cooperation with the west.

Hammond got a few skeptical responses from the MPs but generally they were celebratory. “Clearly this is a diplomatic triumph,” Nicholas Soames, a Conservative said. While Gerald Kaufman, the Labor MP from Manchester (and a Jewish critic of Israel), hailed it as the greatest achievement of Barack Obama’s presidency, a demonstration of the Churchill principle that Jaw Jaw is better than War War; and he called on Hammond to make sure that Israel doesn’t try and interfere in the deal. How many American politicians are hailing this as the greatest achievement of the Obama presidency and bewailing Israel influence? Only Obama himself, and only implicitly.

Hammond is in Israel now. He is going to try and convince Netanyahu that he cannot stop the deal in the US Congress. He was confrontational with Israel in his parliamentary remarks. “Israel doesn’t want any deal with Iran. Israel wants a permanent state of stand-off and I don’t believe that’s in the interest of the region, I don’t believe it’s in our interest,” Hammond said (per the Independent). 

This is the same body, the British parliament, that led Obama and US public opinion when he refused to attack Syria two years ago. Maybe we should listen to them now. American politicians have to start hailing this deal as a way of getting Iran back into the community of nations.

This is a demonstration of the power of the Israel lobby. A deal with Iran is surely in American interests as much as it is in the Brits’ and western Europe’s. World powers want to settle down a turbulent region. But Israel doesn’t see it that way; it wants a permanent cold war with Iran so it can do anything it wants. And the Israel lobby is based on the premise that Israel must cultivate connections and influence with the superpower, in order to effect policy there. That’s what we’re seeing, with the remarkable degree of influence Netanyahu has in Washington.

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About Philip Weiss

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50 Responses

  1. Krauss
    Krauss
    July 16, 2015, 9:47 am

    Presidential historians often argue that most presidents can be placed in two camps: those who are historical and those who are caretakers. You can be successful president as a caretaker, like Clinton was, but it doesn’t change the fact that you didn’t really change anything in the country and chose to operate within the confines of the current political structure.

    I think this is what Obama alluded to – and what so many liberals misunderstood – when he praised Reagan in the HuffPo interview some years ago and called out Clinton in the process(who in turn got even more embittered at Obama, driven by jealousy).

    Obama’s health care act is the biggest domestic achievement of any president for decades and if the Iran deal – which will inevitably fail at keeping Iran from getting nukes, but that’s okay. These people aren’t going to use them wildly in some kamikaze mission – goes through, it will be seen as another big feather in Obama’s hat.

    But the true significance of the Iran deal is not visavi Iran. It’s actually about the Israel lobby. If Obama could get a deal through the massive protests of the most consequentual foreign lobby in Washington which has had a near-strangehold on Middle Eastern policy since the mid-to-late 1980s up until now, the real legacy of this deal would mark the beginning of the end of the Israel lobby’s monolithic influence over U.S. Middle Eastern policy.

    So even if the Iran’s stated objectives will fail in the end, as I assume, the lasting legacy would be Obama’s contributions to get a more independent and more moderate approach to a region which has seen so much destruction thanks to the dominance of the neocons and their lobby allies.

    And that is one of the many reasons his presidency will be seen as historic, even beyond mere symbolism.

    • lysias
      lysias
      July 16, 2015, 12:19 pm

      I think that was the reason AIPAC waited a day before weighing in against the Iran deal. They realized they would be supporting what would probably be a losing side, and in the process would be exposing their diminished power. They must have come under a lot of pressure to give in.

    • JWalters
      JWalters
      July 16, 2015, 7:02 pm

      Spot on analysis.

  2. Citizen
    Citizen
    July 16, 2015, 9:58 am

    This issue already hit CSPAN WJ yesterday morning, in the form of questioning a Senator dissing the Iran Deal on his dual loyalty: http://jpupdates.com/2015/07/15/c-span-caller-questions-sen-cardins-u-s-loyalty-on-iran-deal/
    Looks like, apropos the Iran Deal, “Jewish Geography” has come home to roost amid the 98% Gentiles in the US?

    IMO, this is exactly what Netanyahu & AIPAC fear, that more Americans will look more closely at whether or not US & Israeli interests and values are identical. Bibi said to his crew what he fears most is Iran not cheating on the Iran Deal. If the US does not free itself from Israel Lobby, it will keep decreasing its own power and influence in the world, basically, Israel dragging down the USA’s reputation and economy with itself as US politicians keep competing as to who can show more love for Israel as the expense of US blood and treasure.

    • eljay
      eljay
      July 16, 2015, 10:10 am

      || Citizen: This issue already hit CSPAN WJ yesterday morning, in the form of questioning a Senator dissing the Iran Deal on his dual loyalty: link to jpupdates.com … ||

      … Cardin, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, immediately shot back at the caller. “I’m normally pretty tolerant to people who ask questions, but I’m not to your assumption,” he said. “I take great offense to that. Our loyalty is to America, our concerns are with America, our religion is our personal business and should have nothing to do with an evaluation from anyone as to our objectivity on issues concerning America.” …

      Who said anything about your religion, Mr. Cardin? Haven’t you heard that Jewish is more than just a religion – that it’s a tribe, an ethnicity, a culture, a people, a nation and a civilization?

      Perhaps you’re not as objective as you think, Mr. Cardin, what with you being part of the Jewish people and the Jewish nation, and given that the “Jewish State” is your one true homeland.

      Or do Zionists have it wrong, Mr. Cardin?

      • lysias
        lysias
        July 16, 2015, 4:02 pm

        There’s now a Washington Post article about the Cardin flap on CSPAN, with lots of comments. Cardin to caller who questions his loyalty to U.S.: ‘I take great offense to that’.

      • JWalters
        JWalters
        July 16, 2015, 7:10 pm

        Given the many Jews exhorting all Jews to be loyal to Israel above all, it is entirely reasonable to ask a Jew in an important decision-making position if they are of that mindset. This is a sensible question about their relevant decision-making priorities, and not about their religion per se. It is disingenuous of Cardin to pretend otherwise. Ideally, a questioner would phrase the question to make this clear.

        Glad to hear of this progress in the national discussion.

      • ckg
        ckg
        July 16, 2015, 9:33 pm

        I really don’t think Cardin’s religion/ethnicity is relevant. Recently some critics of Diane Rehm pointed to her ethnicity. It’s the flip side of the same coin.

    • just
      just
      July 16, 2015, 10:46 am

      I’m glad the caller made it through.

      I wish that folks would ask questions about voting records, etc. I’d like for them to ask why Israel gets their unquestioned and unwavering support. Those are the questions that I ask when I finally get the opportunity. It takes a bit of research, but it’s easy enough to find out what bills they sponsored and those that they vote for and against.

      I don’t ask about ‘religion’~ it’s easy for folks to get offended, and avoid the issues that I care about. I ask about loyalty/citizenship, and to explain why certain votes are actually necessary to US national security or the lives of Americans. I ask them about their statements, and to explain them.

      For instance, from Yousef Munayyer in the Baltimore Sun April, 21 2015:

      “Putting Israel’s interests before America’s is something you might expect from Republican politicians these days, especially in recent years as Democratic President Obama has clashed with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But you may not expect such behavior from a leading Democratic senator like Maryland’s own Ben Cardin. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what is happening.

      Tomorrow, Senator Cardin is expected to quietly insert a bill he wrote into another piece of legislation as an amendment during a markup session on Capitol Hill. The bill, the “U.S.-Israel Trade Enhancement Act,” was put forward by Senator Cardin and co-sponsored by a Republican counterpart, Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio. Since the bill received no further co-sponsors, it seems like the senators intended from the outset to sneak the bill in to avoid a public conversation over it.

      The bill itself instructs U.S. trade negotiators to make defending Israel from boycotts part of their negotiating objectives. This measure is aimed as silencing and mitigating actions taken by some European states alongside the movement to boycott, divest from and sanction Israel. The BDS movement is meant to ensure that financial dealings with Israel do not support violations of international law and stated U.S. policy, like the building and expansion of settlements and the myriad human rights abuses that are commonplace in military occupation.

      Senator Cardin’s initiative would effectively tie the hands of U.S. trade negotiators by requiring them to defend Israel’s violations of international law. No wonder the senators are trying to sneak this bill in. …”

      http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-israel-bill-20150421-story.html

      And then there’s Jim Michie’s article that references the above legislation:

      “Senator Cardin’s double standard on nukes in the Middle East” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/senator-cardins-standard#sthash.r3RMEwhJ.dpuf

      “AIPAC-backed legislation targeting BDS movement advances in Congress” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/04/legislation-targeting-movement#sthash.FJbojLDQ.dpuf

      • JWalters
        JWalters
        July 16, 2015, 7:14 pm

        Good suggestions for call-in questions on this issue.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        July 17, 2015, 8:32 am

        Just for President!

    • ckg
      ckg
      July 16, 2015, 11:40 am

      I don’t think the caller should have brought up Cardin’s religion/ethnicity. After all, Jews are well-represented in the ranks of Israel’s critics. There were other callers who questioned Israel’s oversized presence in the debate, but no one will take note of what they said. Instead the media accounts will focus on this one caller crossing the line. For example, in the Mediaite article headlined, “WATCH: Jewish Senator Shuts Down Anti-Semitic C-SPAN Caller”, the caller is quoted saying, “Mr. Cardin looks like a regular white guy, nice guy, but in actuality he’s a Jewish white guy.”

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        July 17, 2015, 8:34 am

        I don’t expect tip-toeing perfection…as we practice the ways to address this issue.
        We learn.

  3. aiman
    aiman
    July 16, 2015, 10:12 am

    The split in the Israel Lobby has made this deal possible. Obama has himself admitted that change cannot happen without necessary input. Next challenge will be to defeat the J Street lobby because I don’t believe the liberal Zionist mindset can deliver the Palestinians (O’s bellicose non-nuclear related statements on Iran signal this limitation). The whole liberal Zionist character is to wax poetry dedicated to that soiled virgin named Israel (the Beinart thesis). The next stop, hopefully and urgently, will move the focus from this self-obsession to the real time, in flesh and blood portrait of the Palestinian and his overdue freedom from most cruel bondage.

    • just
      just
      July 16, 2015, 10:54 am

      +1, aiman!

    • JWalters
      JWalters
      July 16, 2015, 7:19 pm

      It seems to me the conflict between J Street and AIPAC on this deal will open a public space for more people to divest themselves from the Zionist boondoggle, perhaps including members of J Street itself.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      July 17, 2015, 8:46 am

      It has been real nice to see people address the inordinate influence in recent months.
      The conversation is so much more real now.
      Learning how to take the Zionists out of their game plan is key.
      All you guys having the courage to keep trying until we get it right…really makes my day…these last few months.

  4. Tchoupitoulas
    Tchoupitoulas
    July 16, 2015, 11:04 am

    Some excerpts from Zack Beauchamp’s article “This Iran deal is a disaster for Benjamin Netanyahu” in Vox today:

    “But even if the deal does end up being good on net for Israel, there is just no debating that it is a complete disaster for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

    This deal is a huge policy failure for Netanyahu, who in recent years has staked ever more of his legacy and political reputation on stopping it — even at the cost of setting back Israel’s relationship with the United States. Now he has nothing to show for it but a giant political embarrassment that his opponents on the right and left are already using against him.”

    and:

    “It’s hard to overstate how much of a defeat this is for Netanyahu. He lost the policy fight on his top issue. It would not be too far off to imagine this as akin to Obama losing the 2010 vote on Obamacare, if Obama had insisted that without Obamacare, America itself faced imminent destruction.

    Netanyahu’s Iran policy has become a disaster, a boondoggle, a total belly flop. His top priority was blocking a deal, and he couldn’t get it done.”

    Ouch.

    The link: http://www.vox.com/2015/7/16/8974949/iran-nuclear-deal-netanyahu

    • annie
      annie
      July 17, 2015, 12:23 am

      thanks for the vox link Tchoupitoulas. great photos too.

  5. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    July 16, 2015, 6:30 pm

    If mw had a record of success in describing the middle east, had any record of any sort in describing a vision of the middle east and how we go from here to there, then mw’s wholehearted endorsement of the Iran pact would have some basis in reality, it would have a context in which it would fit. but mw knows only how to endorse mass rallies in cairo and not how to rule cairo. it only knows how to attack the dictators of Egypt and Saudi Arabia, not to describe the path of democracy and how to navigate the dangerous shoals that the Muslim Brotherhood presents. it only knows how to condemn those who wish to overthrow Assad but nary a word about Assad’s cruel regime. it only knows how to extol Hezbollah, but nary a word on how Lebanon is supposed to mature into a solid country rather than a country with a sectarian militia independent of the army. The Arab world: Iraq, Syria, Yemen are in turmoil. How does this pact fit into that? Show me some modicum of thoughtfulness on these issues then I would be forced to relate to your wholehearted endorsement of this pact in a context of thoughtfulness. but this site provides zero assessment of the middle east and its turmoils and its future and thus your endorsement of this pact is based upon ignorance and starry eyed “audacity of hope”. (and of course, opposition to Zionism).

    • justicewillprevail
      justicewillprevail
      July 16, 2015, 7:21 pm

      And your record is what? A litany of incoherent whining on a website. This is inane drivel, even from you. MW knows this and doesn’t know that – what on earth are you talking about? MW is a website which publishes a variety of views and links, get your knickers out of the twist you are furiously tying them in.
      If you want to know why this is a good deal there are a bazillion articles from all over the world, any one of which you could avail yourself of. Instead you post the most bizarre, childish prattle which doesn’t bear the slightest relevance to the issue. Are you serious? Evidently not. Grow up.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        July 16, 2015, 7:49 pm

        you remind me of the monty python routine. oh, you want arguments. arguments are down the hall, this is insults. nary a word of content, justice will prevail, only a litany of insults. not a word of comment on any aspect of the middle east, just a litany of insults. very weak, sir.

      • annie
        annie
        July 16, 2015, 8:08 pm

        only a litany of insults.

        yonah, jwp was responding to your litany of insults. or didn’t you notice?

        example:

        If mw had a record of success ….then mw’s … endorsement of the Iran pact would have some basis in reality…but mw knows only…it only knows how…not to describe … and how to navigate. it only knows how to condemn…it only knows how to extol…nary a word on…Show me some modicum of thoughtfulness..this site provides zero assessment…starry eyed “audacity of hope”. (and of course, opposition to Zionism).

        very weak, sir. where’s the argument? you want arguments. arguments are down the hall.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        July 16, 2015, 8:29 pm

        annie-

        the answer to my insult would be to link me to some writing that you or anyone here at mw has done on the topic of syria that shows some astute analysis. link me to one article on egypt that shows that you have your finger on the pulse of the changing region and mw is one step ahead of the tumult. you can’t answer my insult with a link, because my insults are spot on: mw is lacking in knowledge of the middle east. there are no links that will show such knowledge. there is no arguing with my insult, because i am accurate.

        the pact with iran will impact the region, a region about which this web site shows an amazing naivete and ignorance. yes, it’s an insult. an accurate one.

      • annie
        annie
        July 16, 2015, 8:51 pm

        you insult us sans one embed or blockquote/text as an example (iow, articles that shows “no astute analysis” ..or an example of some admirable press (unlike us) on “how to rule cairo”) and you expect me to go on a wild goose chase hunting down “proof” your unsourced and unsolicited allegations are incorrect? get real.

        you launch into an insult w/a bunch of allegations. i don’t work for you. and what have you written about syria and egypt that give you “a basis of reality” from which to launch into an endoresment of a point of view? go somewhere else yonah, no one is chaining you to the site.

        and PS, i noticed you didn’t counter jwp’s insult by “link[ing] to some writing that you” have written that is not “A litany of incoherent whining” or “inane drivel”. take your own advice on how to counter insults since they seem to be your specialty. that’s primarily what you do here for the most part, is insult the site and commenters on it. it’s called trolling.

      • annie
        annie
        July 16, 2015, 9:00 pm

        hey yonah, what do you think of the British discussion of the deal? that the Conservative British government regards the deal as a great opening to the Iranians, to include them in the world and make them a good neighbor? any opinion on that?

      • just
        just
        July 16, 2015, 9:34 pm

        Great questions, Annie.

        yonah?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        July 16, 2015, 9:45 pm

        Nope. No opinion.

      • just
        just
        July 16, 2015, 10:06 pm

        “the answer to my insult would be to link me to some writing that you or anyone here at mw has done on the topic of syria that shows some astute analysis. link me to one article on egypt that shows that you have your finger on the pulse of the changing region and mw is one step ahead of the tumult. you can’t answer my insult with a link, because my insults are spot on: mw is lacking in knowledge of the middle east. there are no links that will show such knowledge. there is no arguing with my insult, because i am accurate.”

        You don’t know much, yonah. You see things from a very provincial and privileged perch. It ain’t pretty. You don’t know the ME at all. Visiting Israel and your relatives there does make you an expert on Occupation, but nothing else.

      • eljay
        eljay
        July 16, 2015, 10:12 pm

        || y.f.: Nope. No opinion. ||

        All snark, no conversation. Very sad.:-(

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        July 17, 2015, 2:00 am

        @yonah

        ” mw is one step ahead of the tumult.”

        Sorry but you need to consult someone who is capable of fortelling the future. A fortune teller. Or perhaps a zionist which makes them an expert in alternate/fictional realities as well as “we all know what would happen” futures.

        What mw does excel at is identifying the realities of both past and current events, the motivators, the propaganda, the spin, the crimes being committed, the lies of those who wish to escape responsibility.

        But no matter, that is not a matter of interest to zionists such as yourself who seek to excuse crimes against humanity and try to pretend you live in a reality that is an alternate to the rest of humanity.

    • Kris
      Kris
      July 16, 2015, 8:52 pm

      Gosh, yonah, you have hit the nail on the head! Mondoweiss is not omniscient! I’m not sure why that’s not okay with you, though–I thought Jews believed in one god only.

      You know, the one G-d who forbids idolatry (even of weapons and power), graven images, killing (even untermenschen such as Palestinians), adultery (even in nightclub restrooms in Tel Aviv http://mondoweiss.net/2013/12/toilets-really-zionism), stealing (even Palestinian land and resources), lying (even in service of Israel), and coveting (this includes everything–house, wife, servants, ox, ass, any thing– that belongs to someone else, even if Palestinian).

      This one G-d even thinks we should honor our father and our mother (even if they are Holocaust survivors unlucky enough to live in Israel http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/thousands-israeli-holocaust-survivors-struggle-poverty-n293391 .

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew
      July 16, 2015, 10:27 pm

      just- if you read my self description on my commenter’s profile page you will see no claims for expertise. on the other hand mw flies the banner: the war of ideas in the middle east. it is clearly false advertising. there are no ideas about the wider middle east here. there are ideas for the Palestinians, against Israel, against the Israel lobby, against US military involvement . these are vital attitudes when preparing to dissect the middle east. but preparation like an appetizer, is not the same as a meal. there is no knowledge here regarding the wider middle east. and how can there be real ideas without knowledge. instead there is wishing and hoping. those are hardly ideas. Might i suggest changing the banner to “the war of ideas in Israel Palestine” or “the war of ideas regarding Palestine”. that would be truth in advertising.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      July 17, 2015, 12:40 am

      @yonah

      “(and of course, opposition to Zionism).”

      Why shouldn’t I be opposed to a racist ideology which has implemented a racist system, implemented racist laws, committed war crimes and crimes against humanity, which has killed many thousands including women, children and babies.

      I abhor radical jihadists. I abhor all dictatorships (though I note Israel and the Saudis are best buds. And Jordan and Egypt are also on the good [enough] list with Israel.

      Israel not only commits the crimes but supports and likes the dictatorships that exist as long as they support Israel.

      Neither you nor Israel has any highground to stand on. Anyone who supports those who commit those crimes has no voice to lecture others.

      Certainly there are times when you have to chose the lesser of evils. There’s no valid reason for the the non democratic ethnocracy called Israel to be on the chosen list. It’s as vile as the other states in the region and not the only functioning democracy in the middle east.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      July 17, 2015, 8:56 am

      Yonah, dude.
      Who did you give your password too?
      You were doing so badly, you had to give up your chair, didn’t you?
      Won’t make any difference, the new guy doesn’t reason any better than you.
      Weak, dude.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 17, 2015, 12:21 pm

        “Who did you give your password too?”

        CigarGod, would it make any difference? Like there would be much vriation?

        He’s just another guy headed for the schlimazeldammerung.

  6. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    July 16, 2015, 6:49 pm

    RE: “A deal with Iran is surely in American interests as much as it is in the Brits’ and western Europe’s. World powers want to settle down a turbulent region. But Israel doesn’t see it that way; it wants a permanent cold war with Iran so it can do anything it wants. ~ Weiss

    SEE: Netanyahu launches US media blitz against Iran deal, By Herb Keinon, JPost.com, 07/16/2015

    [EXCERPT] . . . In an indication of the direction that Netanyahu is taking the battle, he told the Knesset during a Knesset session in honor of Ze’ev Jabotinsky that “the agreement signed in Vienna is not the end of the story. We will continue to fight.”

    He said that Jabotinsky, as well as Theodor Herzl, understood that “in the modern world turning to public opinion is vital in furthering the interests of a sovereign state.”

    He then quoted Jabotinsky as saying that there was no friendship in diplomatic matters, “only pressure,” and that what tips the balance on diplomatic matters is not whether a particular ruler is “good or bad,” but rather the amount of pressure applied. . .

    SOURCE – http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran/Netanyahu-launches-US-media-blitz-against-Iran-deal-409125

    P.S.
    The right-wing Zionist leader Vladimir Jabotinsky once told Menachem Begin that if he despaired of the conscience of the world, he should “jump into the Vistula”.

    “Zionism is a colonising adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. There is no other ethic.” ~ Vladimir Jabotinsk

  7. Rodneywatts
    Rodneywatts
    July 16, 2015, 6:57 pm

    “American politicians have to start hailing this deal as a way of getting Iran back into the community of nations” You are so right Phil, and not just because it is right for Iran, but also because not to do so will be detrimental to the economic and political standing of the US on the world stage. It is very clear in the ‘Independent’ article how Israel is viewed by us in the UK and that there is an enormous gulf in thought between most American and British politicians wrt Israel.

    @Just above has referred to the moves in Congress to pass a bill to try and prevent BDS by nations of the EU, by having clauses in the Trans Atlantic Trade Pact /TTIP. Well, anybody following the EU’s deliberations will know that the European Parliament last week, whilst agreeing that negotiations should continue, also expressed grave reservations about some things wanted by the US. To now add clauses of protection for Israel against BDS would appear to be the height of folly.

    As a matter of Interest Sir Nicholas Soames is the grandson of Sir Winston Churchill and both mentioned above. Sir Nicholas is on the right of the conservative party so his favorable comments put into stark perspective the gulf I mentioned. I really feel for you folks with such terrible politicians in power. However, on the bright side, it can be said that justice in I/P and the comeuppance of Netanyahu is getting closer.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      July 17, 2015, 6:17 am

      “Sir Nicholas is on the right of the conservative party ”

      Which, in comparison with American Democrats, would put him very slightly to the right of Mao Tze Tung.

  8. oldgeezer
    oldgeezer
    July 17, 2015, 12:33 am

    It will be a good thing to welcome Iran back into the family of nations. Is Iran a model country? No far from it. What country is a model. They have some serious internal problems that need sorting out but they are their problems and they should be allowed (meaning the citizens) to sort it out on their own in due time.

    Iran does support some groups which are considered by some countries to be terrorists. Again this is wrong but let he who is with out sin cast the first stone. The major groups supported by Iran are counter groups to a much more vile country which has been abusing human rights on an international scale for well over a half century and, for that same period, been committing war crimes.

    Now I understand that the leader of that country, Netanyahu and Israel respectively, are upset that a country which stands against their crimes is to be allowed to escape punitive sanctions. Of course if Israel was not a rogue state it’s opponent groups would cease to have a reason to exist. As is always the case Israel seeks to blame the victims while trying to pretend through crocodile tears that it is the victim. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    I understand, as well, that they fear that Iran could obtain a nuclear weapon. I don’t see that happening but if it did then Israel would lose it’s hegemony over the region which would bring it’s criminal enterprise to a grinding halt. That is what they fear the most.

    This would be a good thing.

    Israel has had hegemony over the region for a half century. Under that scenario all we have seen is a middle east which becomes more and more destabilized. An ongoing series of war crimes and crimes against humanity perpetrated by Israel on an ever increasing basis.

    Too many people have died. Too many lives destroyed.

    Those opposed to this deal with Iran are the same people who championed war with Iraq and intervention in Syria. The same people who praise Israel with lies about it’s operations to support ISIS.

    It is time for a new world order in the middle east and it needs to be outside of the hands of Israel. It has proven itself unsuitable to the task and not fit for purpose. It’s racist nature has only led to death and destruction.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      July 17, 2015, 6:08 am

      “What country is a model.”

      San Marino, maybe?

    • catalan
      catalan
      July 17, 2015, 9:15 am

      “What country is a model.”
      Denmark, Scotland, Austria, Luxembourg, Netherlands. Norway.
      Any country whose leader does not have the power of life or death over the citizens. Where he legal code is not based on 7th century religious dogmas. It helps if people are not publicly executed. Freedom of speech. Not killing gays. Etcetera.
      But I am glad that America has a new best friend. It shows what I have all suspected – hatred of Israel and complete state control of the economy and society are more important to liberals than mere human rights. It provides some clarity as to where things are headed. The chaos of overpopulation and scarcity seems to lead inevitably to dictatorship.
      On the other hand, the comical aspect of a press conference of the ayatollah and Obama is to be looked forward to. Also the faces of the first wife and daughters stepping into Iran. Politics can be fun too.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        July 17, 2015, 11:03 am

        7th century?
        Surely, that is not the founding date of Judaism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 17, 2015, 12:14 pm

        “Catalan” with the wonderful as-a-conservative-I’m-the-real-liberal schtick so beloved of the American all-rightnik!
        Such nachos I get from watching my fellow lantzmanns become real Americans!

      • Tchoupitoulas
        Tchoupitoulas
        July 17, 2015, 2:12 pm

        Hi Catalan. From your earlier post:

        “We are discussing how wonderful Iran is and how we should be best friends with them. I am noticing their prohibition of Facebook and Twitter, gentle penal code, public executions, and other wonderful features worthy of emulating….Be best friends with them and while at it, Google videos of their public hangings, there is one where a guy is fighting with the executioners, a bunch of kids are watching. Humane, liberal progressive stuff.” – Catalan

        Be honest. Is your beef with Iran human rights issues? Or a (perceived) threat to Israel? Just be honest. Because I’m no expert, but doesn’t Saudi Arabia beat Iran, hands down, when it comes to human rights violations? Isn’t Saudi Arabia, so chummy these days with Israel, the progenitor of all the worst, most barbaric Salafist militants we are seeing in the ME today? I don’t hear you complaining about our relationship with Saudi Arabia. Why is that? Be honest.

      • Keith
        Keith
        July 17, 2015, 7:38 pm

        CATALAN- “It helps if people are not publicly executed.”

        How would you catagorize the US trained and controlled death squads utilized in Latin America? Could the mounds of corpses, many tortured, be considered public? And when the US established similar death squads in Iraq, does that not offend your sensibilities? Ever heard of Col.(ret)James Steele? He was brought in to Iraq to duplicate his murderous techniques from Latin America. It was referred to as “the Salvadoran option.” Nothing Iran has done even remotely compares with this. But being an empire Jew, you single mindedly condemn Iran in lock-step conformity. You can Google James Steele for more info. Below is a link to a Guardian documentary which persons of conscience will find interesting.
        http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/mar/06/james-steele-america-iraq-video

  9. catalan
    catalan
    July 17, 2015, 7:23 pm

    “Because I’m no expert, but doesn’t Saudi Arabia beat Iran, hands down, when it comes to human rights violations”
    I don’t know. There are plenty of horrific execution videos from Iran. Then again, the same stuff happens in Saudi Arabia, a whole assortment of barbarisms there as well. I can’t speak as to which one is worse, both are completely foreign to my ideals. I know that many wonderful individuals reside in both of these countries, it’s not about the people, but the systems.
    I don’t see many people saying how Saudi Arabia is wonderful. Yet suddenly I see this outpouring of warm feelings towards Iran.
    Look, to each their own. As Annie points out, that’s what the Iranians want. Many people yearn for a paternalistic state and religion. I am kind of a libertarian myself.
    If their systems are so wonderful, why are they so afraid of free internet, media, and elections?

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