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Trump repeats ‘neutrality’ vow on Israel, surely sensing shift in US opinion

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Donald Trump has doubled down on his statement at a town hall last week that he aims to be neutral in his comments on the Israel/Palestine conflict so as not to injure his ability as president to negotiate a deal between the parties. On Meet the Press yesterday he pointedly did not buy into the Republican “orthodoxy” on Israel, saying he’s very pro-Israel but peace there is the “ultimate deal” and he wasn’t going to prejudice matters.

Chuck Todd: Let me give you one more issue where you sort of went counter to what is perceived as Republican orthodoxy, and that is on the issue of Israel and the Palestinians… Explain what neutral means, because some heard that in the pro-Israeli community and thinks, “Oh, he’s going to be anti-Israel.” Explain what you mean by neutral.

Trump: If they want me, look, no, I’m very pro-Israel. In fact, I was the head of the Israeli Day Parade a number of years ago, I did a commercial for Netanyahu when he was getting elected, he asked me to do a commercial for him, I did a commercial for him. I am. But I don’t want to be– look, the hardest thing to do is that, in terms of deals, you’re a deal person, right? The ultimate deal is that deal. Israel, Palestine, if you’re going to make it, that probably is the hardest deal there is to make. People are born with hatred, they’re taught hatred. And I have to say, it’s mostly on the one side, not on the other side. But they’re taught hatred. I say this. If I’m going to be president, I’d rather be in the position, because I will try the best I can, and I’m a very good dealmaker, believe me, to try and solve that puzzle. You’re not going to solve it if you’re going to be on one side or another. Everyone understands that. If I’m going to solve the problem, I want to go in with a clean slate. Otherwise, you’re never going to get the cooperation of the other side. So that’s all I’m saying.

Trump somewhat tempered his smear of Palestinians as the haters that he issued last week. And he sorta flicked off the fact that he endorsed Benjamin Netanyahu before the 2013 elections in Israel as a polite gesture. Message: that guy has nothing on me.

Hillary Clinton has responded to Trump with an emphatically pro-Israel statement. Remember that Trump thumbed his nose at the Republican Jewish Coalition in December and a month later baited Hillary Clinton on her support for Israel’s apartheid wall:

Back in October, Trump made fun of Marco Rubio for sucking up to Sheldon Adelson:

Trump surely senses that he can gain by exhibiting independence of the Israel lobby. Here are some other straws in the wind:

–A new poll shows that the number of Americans holding a favorable view of Israel has declined 16 percent in the last year, to 59 percent. And in the same interval those holding a favorable view of the Palestinians has surged 42 percent, to 25 percent, and even Iran has had an image-makeover, with 16 percent of Americans regarding the country favorably, up considerably. Grant Smith of the Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy says the data reveal “a stunning turn in U.S. public opinion.”

–The MSM are reflecting the thaw. Last week Newsweek ran a defiant piece by Hanin Zoabi, the Palestinian Israeli legislator who has been suspended from the Knesset as a troublemaker, explaining Palestinian violence as a response to occupation and discrimination. Boldly titled, “Why Israel Is Fighting the Indigenous Palestinians,” it included these lines: “The occupier does not have the right to self-defense. We, the occupied, have the full and only right to fight it, by all means recognized within the framework of international law.”

–Did you notice A.O. Scott’s review of a new Israeli documentary on the Rabin assassination in the New York Times a few weeks ago? This intervention, on behalf of Palestinians, comes late in his piece, but it is highly intentional. The “film’s silences” are “troubling,” Scott avers:

The Palestinians, to the extent that they are mentioned, function as an abstraction, as if the polarization of Israeli politics didn’t concern them at all. And while it’s true that Rabin’s killing exposed and deepened a schism within Zionism, it’s also true that Zionism exists in a larger political context. Acknowledging this would not have made “Rabin, the Last Day” less upsetting but might have relieved some of the claustrophobia.

So Zionism exists in a larger political context! Scott is referring to Europeans who have soured on Zionism, Arabs who can’t stand Zionism, and anti-Zionists in the Jewish community too. He is as weary as we are of the claustrophobia. (Wikipedia says Scott is half-Jewish, flavor of the century).

I throw in these stray facts to say that American public opinion is changing (as is Jewish opinion) and there is political hay to be made of the changes. Donald Trump surely senses this, in his populist campaign. And so he is preparing to run against Marco Rubio by saying that Rubio is Sheldon Adelson’s “perfect little puppet”, and preparing to set up a general election campaign against Hillary Clinton in which he can call out her beholdenness to the billionaire Haim Saban.

In his reissued autobiography of last fall, Bernie Sanders refers with disdain to Sheldon Adelson and the “Adelson primary” on the very first page. But that’s the last we hear of it: Adelson, who is in bed with Hillary Clinton’s good friend Haim Saban. Sanders is ignoring a populist political opportunity that Donald Trump has seized upon. Go figure.

Update: Aaron David Miller believes Trump’s statements reflect his ambition to cut the deal of deals. But he feels the chill: “Donald Trump’s rhetoric is decidedly less effusive and his tone much cooler and more detached than his rivals when it comes to Israel and Jewish issues.”

Thanks to Peter Feld and Scott McConnell.

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About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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52 Responses

  1. David Doppler
    David Doppler
    February 22, 2016, 1:28 pm

    Trump is difficult to grasp, because most writers attempt to caricature him as a simple bigot defined by his offensive tweet or politically incorrect statement of the day.

    I think that, 1) he is his own man, with outsized self-confidence that has allowed him for most of his life to keep his own counsel, and f*** what everybody else thinks. 2) an astute celebrity skilled at branding and at reading people and crowds and presenting his Alpha Male on steroids persona to bully individual opponents WWF-style, and to rile up the crowd, also WWF-style; 3) an astute deal-maker who has made a lot of money developing real estate, and who relishes pulling deals together in which he is a winner, especially the major winner. But real estate deals (except for the occasional [2 or 3%] bankruptcy) are substantial win-win projects, in which, while he as the developer makes lots, also make winners of everyone else joining him: the workers who build it also get good work, the suppliers of materials and subcontractors get business, the tenants and purchasers get improved real estate they desire, the jurisdiction gets enhanced property values, even the lenders make their fees and interest. It requires vision, a lot of operational talent, and a high risk tolerance, coupled with good judgment in choosing which risks to take and which to pass on. It’s a rare skill-set not to be dismissed nor under-estimated, nor under-valued in a leader.

    In his remarks about Israel and the Middle East, he reflects that 1) he is not going to be owned by that special interest group, just as he is not owned by any other; 2) he’s feeding his ego by pursuing the most powerful political leadership position in the world, and views I-P and the Middle East in those terms, and shows multiple signs that he will blow up the orthodoxy that has poisoned America in its dealings there these last twenty years and more, but to feed his ego, not to do justice for the Palestinians, nor to act out some [non-existent] deep-seated Anti-Semitism, nor to suck up to AIPAC or the RJC, but to show that he can succeed where others have failed, by 3) being the ULTIMATE deal-maker. He can already taste the glory.

    All those snipers firing charges of Anti-Semitism, Anti-Islamism, Anti-[insert minority] misread him. He’s anti-everyone who isn’t himself, unless he can get them to defer to his Alpha-maleness, whereupon, he basks in the glow. If you’re not going to defer, he’s going to read you warily, look for your weakness, while he calculates what deal he can make without you, how he can remove you from his path, or force you to join him.

    He’s been snubbed and disrespected by Netanyahu, despite his having delivered an endorsement to him when he needed it, and he’s not going to forget that knife he can twist when it will do him some good.

    The Palestinians, he regards as future celebrators of his extraordinary deal-making abilities, even if they’re Muslims and spawn a lot of terrorists. He’s aware of Israel’s wall, and of the enormous corruption of American politicians by Israel’s supporters, which he’s not offended by, since he has used his money to play that corruption game himself. He’s the kind of person who would repeat the joke about a politician who he supports and who comes through for him when he needs it, “Now that’s what I mean by an honest politician: when you buy him, he stays bought.”

    He sees the election as a deal, which he’s taken over the driver seat of, and all the critics he dismisses as not yet deferring to his leadership. He’ll do what he can and needs to get the nomination, then, I predict, he will pivot on many issues as he goes after the general election win. And he will pound away at his rivals weaknesses whatever they are. Once elected, if elected, he will strive to do deals, to win accolades. I even think he’ll start thinking of his place in history, comparing himself to his best-regarded predecessors, striving to find ways to outdo them.

    While Hillary defends the health insurance industry, Trump – like Sanders – sees clearly how they and the pharmaceutical industry use political influence to structure policy to deliver outsized – and socially unnecessary and destructive – profits. Unlike Sanders, Trump has no fear in taking on the vested interests. The bigger they are, the greater is the ego boost when he bests them or makes them bend to acknowledge his leadership.

    He is not a simple person to be underestimated or dismissed lightly. And I think he is the vehicle that will make Phil’s dream come true – an election in which the war of ideas in the Middle East bursts into the general election and coverage of it.

    He’s scary, for sure, but maybe he will at least force Hillary to re-set her corrupt positions, because you know he’s going to expose them.

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      February 22, 2016, 1:57 pm

      David Doppler: maybe he will at least force Hillary to re-set her corrupt positions
      —————-

      It doesn’t much matter much how she “re-sets” her public positions, swing left, faux-populist or whatever. If and when she gets into power, she and her team of Clintonite neoliberal/militarist insiders will take their slots in the “deep state” and carry on business as usual.

  2. eljay
    eljay
    February 22, 2016, 1:42 pm

    Trump repeats ‘neutrality’ vow on Israel …
    . . .
    Trump: … I’m very pro-Israel. In fact, I was the head of the Israeli Day Parade a number of years ago, I did a commercial for Netanyahu when he was getting elected … People are born with hatred, they’re taught hatred. And I have to say, it’s mostly on the one side, not on the other side. But they’re taught hatred. ..

    Trump repeats neutrality vow on spousal dispute: I’m very much in Joe’s corner In fact, we’re drinking buddies. Now, all people have anger in them, so I’m not saying that Jane is to blame for what happened. But we all know how bitchy women are, especially at that time of the month – am I right? – and so, well, maybe she was just asking for it. Anyway, I’m going to remain neutral on this.

  3. February 22, 2016, 2:25 pm

    Phil, you’re unending good will and optimism towards Trump says more about you, than Trump. You are so engulfed in self-hatred, and have internalized so much antisemitism, that you simply can’t resist the pleasure of seeing Israel cut loose by its benefactor and self destruct, just like Nazi Germany before it.

    That’s all that matters to you huh Phil? Who cares about the millions of Muslim Americans, Hispanics and POC that will be infinitely worst off if Trump is elected, because it’s an acceptable sacrifice for them to make in order for your dreams to come true. Sorry, but to me your support of Trump appears to rooted in your own narcissistic goals, to satisfy whatever complexes you got, rather than for the noble pursuit of justice or due to genuine empathy for the Palestinians. Or am I totally wrong on this Phil?

    • eljay
      eljay
      February 22, 2016, 2:58 pm

      || rugal_b: … Phil … You are so engulfed in self-hatred, and have internalized so much antisemitism, that you simply can’t resist the pleasure of seeing Israel cut loose by its benefactor and self destruct …

      That’s all that matters to you huh Phil? Who cares about the millions … that will be infinitely worst off if Trump is elected, because it’s an acceptable sacrifice for them to make in order for your dreams to come true. Sorry, but to me your support of Trump appears to rooted in your own narcissistic goals, to satisfy whatever complexes you got … ||

      So much vitriol in such a short rant! It’s as though hating Phil is the role in the universe you have been uniquely molded to play.  :-(

      That said, it’s might nice of you to have taken the time to anti-Semitically conflate Israel with all Jews and all Jews with Israel.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        February 23, 2016, 2:41 am

        @e

        I don’t see the writer conflating Israel with anything as you claim. I do read that he believes pw has some sort of self loathing complex but doesn’t give it a exact name.

      • eljay
        eljay
        February 23, 2016, 7:14 am

        || @aBr: … I don’t see the writer conflating Israel with anything as you claim. … ||

        Of course you don’t.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 3:14 pm

      “You are so engulfed in self-hatred, and have internalized so much antisemitism, that you simply can’t resist the pleasure of seeing Israel cut loose by its benefactor and self destruct, just like Nazi Germany before it.”

      Ummm, hey “rugal b” have you forgotten that just a few comments earlier you were talking about:

      “Can’t blame the students, most went through heavy indoctrination from birth with Zionist ideals that mostly were fascist and neocolonialist with Judaism and Jewishness as a facade. Only need to spot one lie before the whole narrative coming undone, making these student end up being even more anti Zionist compared to the average progressive, considering the betrayal of trust and dishonesty they suffered in the hands of pro-Zionist Jews from their previous generation.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/recent-comments/#sthash.fmuxwXMr.dpuf

      Which is it, “rugal b”? The truth winning through, or “self-hatred”?

      Whirl, whirl, whirl! You don’t even know which way you’re turning.
      By now, I don’t even need your non-existent ( and why is that?) archive. You are doing twirls in the same day.

      • February 23, 2016, 8:48 am

        @Mooser, I think the problem you have with me is that you try to profile my character and mindset exclusively through my comments, that often address completely unrelated issues and ideas. Hence, you see me a spinning and twisting because everytime I publish my independent thoughts,they clash with your prejudiced perception of me built from reading a few of my previous comments on completely unrelated subjects. Please stop doing this, and try to engage each comment on its own specific merit.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 11:54 am

        “Rugal b”, I think that is probably the funniest comment I have ever read here. That’s a doozy!
        Okay, I get it. You are, by your own admission, incapable of any but disassociated and detached thoughts. Isn’t there a name for that?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 3:16 pm

      “Or am I totally wrong on this Phil?”

      Oh, come on, what’s the chances of that? I mean, in your long experience and years of study of Jewish “self-hatred” and “internalized anti-semitism” have you ever been wrong? I would think not.

      • kalithea
        kalithea
        February 23, 2016, 1:47 pm

        Lol! Now I’m in stiches! But I have to admit I feel a little bad for rugal_b. Not that I take back anything I wrote about his comment, but I see a little confusion there while at the same time concern for Palestinians. I’m a little perplexed and hoping that this is a case of a recovering Zionist who still has lingering Zionist tendencies, and God knows–I wouldn’t want to encourage a relapse by being too harsh.

    • Atlantaiconoclast
      Atlantaiconoclast
      February 22, 2016, 6:17 pm

      I don’t see self hatred in Phillip at all. I see a wise man unafraid to speak his truth.

      • annie
        annie
        February 22, 2016, 6:24 pm

        only phil would let that gruesome comment about him by rugal pass moderation. who the f talks like that? how gross can you go.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        February 22, 2016, 9:24 pm

        “who the f talks like that?”

        Is that supposed to be a hard question? Zionists talk like that. Everybody else thinks accusing a Jew of “self-hatred” is one of the few truly anti-semitic things left to do.
        Who else clings so lovingly to the concept of “Jewish self-hatred” and is so ready to hand out the diagnosis?

        Or perhaps “rugal b” is using a “progressive Marxist” dialectic to analyze Phil’s situation? Ah, that must be it.

      • kalithea
        kalithea
        February 23, 2016, 1:12 pm

        @ Annie

        This is a case of: Sometimes it’s better to keep one’s mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it up and remove all doubt. So if someone wants to expose themselves to be so for all to see; why stand in their way?

      • annie
        annie
        February 24, 2016, 3:52 pm

        you’re right kalithea. it’s completely exposed him. and the simplest question, to back up his claims (downthread) and he gives us this lame excuse that he’s planning on it when he can free himself from everyday obligations! yet those obligations don’t get in the way of making lame unsubstantiated claims.

        meanwhile, the hand wringing over trumps winning the gop nomination is oozing out everywhere, so we hardly need the clarion call of rugal to inform us trump is a racist — as no one here is claiming otherwise. since it seems almost inevitable trump will be winning the nomination, maybe rug should shift gears and explain to everyone how hillary clinton is better for us than trump. how we should all hold our noses and dedicate ourselves to ensure a war monger neocon is the only way to stop trump so we should support her.

        meanwhile — phil is clearly a bernie fan. but that won’t stop rugal from pretending otherwise — and that he supports trump. jeez.

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      February 23, 2016, 12:15 am

      rugal: …you you simply can’t resist the pleasure of seeing Israel cut loose by its benefactor and self-destruct-
      —————–

      Whoa! Get a grip. Your true colors are showing. Cutting a deal that would give Israel 80 % of the territory is not cutting Israel loose to self-destruct.

    • February 23, 2016, 9:38 am

      Chill everyone, my comment on Phil’s self hatred (at least the Jewish part) and internalized antisemitism was not meant to be accusatory or inflammatory, but merely relay my honest perception of him based on his consistent writings on this particular subject. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I shouldn’t have to remind you guys that.

      Trump as a real person in life may or may not be the persona he is projecting in the media and campaign trail. There are theories saying he is putting on a facade and playing the right wing, that he is a Clinton plant, etc. It doesn’t matter if these are true or not, because there is a chance for this guy to be president and the lives of millions will be affected directly from it. He uses extremely dangerous and violent languages to describe his opponents, those who stand in the way of making the nation great again, and many feel that he is a quickly developing into a fascist candidate. Many nonwhite Americans feel greatly threatened by his campaign and his rhetoric, moreso Muslims and Palestinian Americans in this sick climate of hatred and Islamophobia.

      The same Palestinian Americans that have spent generations fighting the Zionist regime in Israel, and fighting the pro Zionist entities in the US. Evil people are everywhere, and they all don’t conveniently group themselves exclusively as Zionists, which most Palestinian Americans understand deeply, having seen hatred in both Palestine and stateside. In light of this, I find it unacceptable for Phil, who claims to be progressive and liberal, trying so hard to absolve Trump of his problematic behavior and speech, trying to paint him as a potential savior of Palestinians and enemy of the Zionists.

      What is Phil’s motive for doing this, when almost every single Palestinian American stand firmly against Trump and his politics? I’m sure most of the progressive Jewish Americans who are pro-Palestine are also extremely hostile to the prospect of having Trump as president. But not Phil, all he can see is Trump standing up to AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and that is good enough for him. Trump may be a racist, fascist, offensive demagogue but since he appears to be outside of Zionist influence the most, all is OK. Well, nah it doesn’t work that way. I dislike the Zionists as much as anyone here, but I also dislike white supremacists, American ultra nationalists, anti-Arab racists, etc in the exact same capacity. Most of which represent Trump’s politics and his supporters.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 12:05 pm

        “Chill everyone, my comment on Phil’s self hatred (at least the Jewish part) and internalized antisemitism was not meant to be accusatory or inflammatory, but merely relay my honest perception of him based on his consistent writings on this particular subject. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I shouldn’t have to remind you guys that.”

        “rugal b” when you start using terms like “Phil’s self hatred” and “internalized antisemitism” you are telling us way, way, way, more about YOU than about Phil.
        The fact that you expect those terms to be taken seriously (you can’t even define them, can you?) tells us, again, lot’s more about you.
        You are not expressing an opinion, you’re just evacuating all over the comment page, and applying an egg-beater to it, hoping it’ll spray everywhere.

      • kalithea
        kalithea
        February 23, 2016, 1:27 pm

        Okay, so you’re admitting you’re not a Zionist because that comment of yours and especially this part: You are so engulfed in self-hatred, and have internalized so much antisemitism, that you simply can’t resist the pleasure of seeing Israel cut loose by its benefactor and self destruct, just like Nazi Germany before it. sure had me fooled!

        I think unfortunately this comment lingers giving you a tad of a credibility problem. Now your heart may be in the right place; but…personally, that comment was so reckless on your part that I’m having a hard time assessing exactly where you really stand.

      • annie
        annie
        February 24, 2016, 12:23 am

        rugal, contrary to what your blathering suggests, we already know all that crap about trump. but you’ve failed to substantiate this : What is Phil’s motive for doing this

        and this:

        Phil, you’re unending good will and optimism towards Trump

        you make these allegations w/nary a penny much less a dime of supporting text or argument and then launch into your diatribe as if we’re all supposed to buy into strawman version of an argument. back up kid, play like an adult and substantiate your theory phil is displaying unending good will and optimism towards Trump.

        my hunch is you like to lecture people, the bigger fish the better. it positions yourself as some kind of authority figure or moral beacon around here, which you’re not in the least. and then you ask phil questions? ha ha. so hops .

        so let’s look at the title

        Trump repeats ‘neutrality’ vow on Israel, surely sensing shift in US opinion.

        so did he, or did he not? skip the little moral lecture for a change. grow up and make a real argument. how does this demonstrate “unending good will and optimism towards Trump”

        and here’s the first paragraph:

        Donald Trump has doubled down on his statement at a town hall last week that he aims to be neutral in his comments on the Israel/Palestine conflict so as not to injure his ability as president to negotiate a deal between the parties. On Meet the Press yesterday he pointedly did not buy into the Republican “orthodoxy” on Israel, saying he’s very pro-Israel but peace there is the “ultimate deal” and he wasn’t going to prejudice matters.

        how does this represent “unending good will and optimism towards Trump”

        it’s not only the stupid lame a** lectures you love to shove out, the basis for them is completely unsubstantiated — by you. think no one notices this crap?

        now try playing in the big leagues and quote (i bolded that so you wouldn’t miss it) phil and then build an argument to back up your hysterics. now little big man — or cease and desist. you’re boring us.

        edit: one more thing, you’re a LIAR:

        my comment on Phil’s self hatred [ “so engulfed in self-hatred, and have internalized so much antisemitism, that you simply can’t resist the pleasure of seeing Israel cut loose by its benefactor and self destruct, just like Nazi Germany before it.”] and internalized antisemitism was not meant to be accusatory or inflammatory

        no amount of “chill everyone” BS will change the accusatory and inflammatory nature of your comment. and unless you’ve had a lobotomy i am positive you’re not only aware of that, but it was your actual intent.

      • annie
        annie
        February 24, 2016, 12:05 pm

        the cat’s got rugal’s tongue. he’d rather only discuss how horrid it is phil has (allegedly and completely unsubstantiated) “unending good will and optimism towards Trump”. he only wants to discuss his own theory (for lack of a better word) and find out the so called “motive” of his own unsubstantiated allegation. but back up that allegation? using phil’s words to back it up? oh no. he can’t be bothered. he’d rather pontificate as if this little non-factoid was already established and hold court in the comment section substantiating how totally horrid trump is as if non of us has ever considered any of the information he is imparting.

        ha! amusing. rugal, for your edification meet the strawman >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

        with special emphasis on “common” and “fallacy”:

        A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.[1]
        The so-called typical “attacking a straw man” argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent’s proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. “stand up a straw man”) and then to refute or defeat that false argument (“knock down a straw man”) instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
        This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining “battle” and the defeat of an “enemy” may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.

        not only that, but the inflammatory nature of your accusation and delivery and your feigned (grab the smelling salts for the ladies please) hysterics were generously applied to mask the fallacy of your argument.

        phff. what fools you take us for. it’s such a pity your archives are not available so one can access all your fallacies (tricks of the trade) in one place.

      • February 24, 2016, 12:32 pm

        “he only wants to discuss his own so called theory and find out the so called “motive” of his unsubstantiated allegation. but back up that allegation? using phil’s words to back it up? oh no. he can’t be bothered” – Annie

        Oh please don’t cast judgement on me so swifty, I am planning to do exactly that once I can free myself from my everyday obligations. Also, I was reluctant to reply to your earlier request for further clarification of my indictment, as the comment was filled with crude, extremely violent language in addition to direct unfiltered attacks on my character. However , I feel it is only right for me to take it on the chin while continuing to help educate fellow readers here further. Though in this instance I would like to request for your patience as I develop and formulate my answer to Annie’s hostile demands.

      • annie
        annie
        February 24, 2016, 1:49 pm

        I am planning to do exactly that once I can free myself from my everyday obligations.

        that’s a relief. let’s just assume those oh so “everyday obligations” will also prevent you from further pontifications/explanations regarding your theory. the one that resulted in your “crude, extremely violent language in addition to direct unfiltered attacks” on phil’s character. those unsubstantiated claims — until you find the time to back up your allegations, develop and formulate the reasonings which led to your extremely hostile inflammatory charges you’ll probably be too busy to “educate fellow readers here further”.

        I feel it is only right for me to take it on the chin while continuing to help educate fellow readers here further.

        educate? thru a strawman? as if every or any one here needs to be educated by you about donald trump! by all means, when you’re free of your “everyday obligations” please provide whatever text it is you’re reading here, by phil or a commenter, that implies a lack of knowledge that needs realigning.

        btw, why not just scroll to the very top of the page and quote phil. obviously whatever he wrote about threw you into such a passionate fit of inflammatory insult you can find what ticked you off — no? it’s not like you have to search far and wide is it to back up your claims? just scroll up and let us know whatever it was he wrote for heaven’s sakes. it should only take a few seconds — once you can ‘free yourself from your everyday obligations’.

      • annie
        annie
        February 24, 2016, 2:11 pm

        Oh please don’t cast judgement on me so swifty,

        a tad hypocritical don’t you think? coming from you, the poster who launches off in this thread – swiftly- casting judgement? with NO quote, no explanation, no nothing. just a big fat hearty judgmental insult directed at the founder of this site. seriously, who do you think you are to expect patience from any of us? and there was nothing “swiftly” about me casting judgement on your strawman argument. look at the timestamps for heavens sakes!

        your initial insult was February 22, 2016, 2:25 pm only an hour after phil published the article, then you doubled down the next day at February 23, 2016, 9:38 am. i didn’t lambast you and call you out on your strawman until February 24, 2016, 12:23 am and then 12 hours later again February 24, 2016, 12:05 pm when you failed to respond.

        it’s you who insult swiftly, i drug my heels and only launched into you almost 2 days later when you continued to carry on — leaping off your unsubstantiated allegations to continue lecturing us in your fallacious argument. now if it’s not fallacious, prove it. substantiate!

      • gamal
        gamal
        February 24, 2016, 6:35 pm

        “Oh please don’t cast judgement on me so swift(l)y” rugal-b

        The classical Arabic cognate of the Hebrew word (meaning insolence or cheek I think) from which Chutzpah derives is “hasafah”, which means “sound judgement”, I am going with Chutzpah.

        you can quote me on that.

      • annie
        annie
        February 24, 2016, 8:00 pm

        ok, ;)

      • February 25, 2016, 1:14 pm

        I recall Phil publishing an article on MW’s front page, with the title “Trump wasn’t being antisemitic”…which to me sounds awefully like a statement of absolution, and trying to actively speak for Trump, rather than against him. Who was Phil aiming that article at and for what purpose?

        After that, there was another article, also positively slanted towards Trump. In the article, the author opines that Trump cunningly tried to draw attention to Israel or Israeli people who were seen celebrating the 9/11 attacks when he accused Muslims dancing instead in a speech. The logic, as proposed by the article, was people would go and try to research further into the accusation, and due to easily accessible media showing it was actually Israelis celebrating, find out who the real snakes are all by themselves. This way Trump would be able to attack the Israeli lobby and raise awareness on Israel’s treachery without attracting the scrutiny of AIPAC and Zionists in the US. I have no idea how the heck the writer was able to come up with that interpretation or explanation of Trump’s speech. Going extraordinarily out of the way to cast a positive light on Trump’s purported cunning and sharp political mind, the article was also published in the mainpage of MW.

        I’m not really interested in going through all of Phil’s writing and pulling quotes from everywhere to prove what essential is a personal opinion. Also, I’m sure he isn’t as stupid as to write something that could be easily read as a direct endorsement of Trump by the average reader.

      • annie
        annie
        February 25, 2016, 3:43 pm

        rugal, re your first allegation. it took me 2 seconds to find that w/your quote by googling. why not link to the article and quote him? http://mondoweiss.net/2015/12/trump-wasnt-semitic/

        Donald Trump’s comments to the Republican Jewish Coalition yesterday about his audience including great negotiators who want to buy candidates were not anti-semitic, as a lot of liberal writers are claiming. The quips were a generalization, surely, but an accurate one.

        Trump has expressed bigotry against Hispanics and Muslims, but he is surely immunized from bigotry in this case because he was describing a quality he values more than anything else, dealmaking. I don’t see how you can be anti-semitic if you’re praising a trait you love in yourself.

        More important, this was a moment of truth-telling. The (mostly) men in that room are there because they’re wealthy and they’re shopping for pro-Israel candidates. I saw this same crowd at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem raising money for Mitt Romney in 2012. You didn’t get into the lunch by having good ideas. It was a $50,000-a-plate meal. Buying candidates for Israel is the name of the game.

        he goes on and on like that. the whole article is crammed w/lines like

        You don’t think money in politics is corrupting? I do. A few weeks back Trump said that Marco Rubio would become the “perfect little puppet” of Sheldon Adelson if Adelson supports him, and it was a true statement. Rubio won’t be out-Israel’ed by anyone, as he showed yesterday in denouncing Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions in his speech, and saying Jerusalem will always be Israel’s capital, and he’ll shred the Iran deal. Trump to his credit did not make those promises. In fact, he got booed for refusing to say that Jerusalem must remain undivided. Though he loves Netanyahu, who can doubt that’s his real sentiment. What’s the source of his independence? Because he’s not looking for money, he’s not bought and paid for by the Israel lobby, as Tom Friedman once wrote about the Congress.

        you really have to ask ” Who was Phil aiming that article at and for what purpose?” with lines like Buying candidates for Israel is the name of the game.

        it’s true, and it’s the reason a lot of people will not support hillary clinton. because the US doesn’t need anymore politicians licking israel’s feet. does that mean i like donald trump? it’s the news. everything phil wrote was the truth.

        the story about trump claiming he saw thousands of Muslims celebrating the 9/11 attacks in Jersey City was all over the news, and it was a lie. anyone following the news after 9/11 is aware of the israeli spies dancing on top of their van. because it happened right afterwards and was big news. this is not a pro trump article : http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/celebration-laughing-israelis/

        i don’t know what other article you’re referencing but this one is not pro trump. here’s more:

        I’ve heard about the Israeli movers’ story down through the years and never been very interested in it, it’s in s being in a gray zone of unproveable assertions. But the story certainly doesn’t reflect well on Israel; and what is curious here is the media’s reticence about the Israeli movers as the basis of Trump’s lie. The rules just don’t apply when it comes to Israel; Israeli forces can do no wrong in the U.S. Consider: Last month the CIA co-hosted a conference on national security and invited officials from the blessed trinity of Britain, France and Israel. Gosh. If we had a normal relationship with Israel we might see that they have a constitutional problem — millions of Palestinians can’t vote for the Jewish state government that rules their lives — that is hurting the United States across the Middle East. We can’t. Or consider Russia’s response to Turkey’s shoot-down of its plane. BBC reported today that Russia has already begun cutting off the importation of Turkish foods in a semi-official protest of the attack. I thought of Rachel Corrie and Furkan Dogan. Israeli forces killed these charitable American citizens under highly dubious circumstances; and there have never been consequences to Israel for its conduct. We really have no national interest when it comes to Israel; Israel’s interest is our interest. The failure to report the simple facts around Trump’s lie is yet another example.

        anything that comes up in the presidential election surrounding israel from any of the candidates phil will probably cover, and why shouldn’t he? that doesn’t mean he’s pro trump. and phil doesn’t agree with every opinion published here. sometimes people write rebuttals to phil’s writing, and he publishes it because it’s controversial or maybe he respects people who critique his work or thinks publishing it is fair game. i have no idea.

        I’m not really interested in going through all of Phil’s writing and pulling quotes from everywhere to prove what essential is a personal opinion.

        well here’s a heads up — the next time you have a completely unsourced inflammatory insulting personal opinion, keep it to yourself. you want to go lambasting someones character, pull quotes and back it up. that’s only a request of course, it’s not mandatory. but if it doesn’t happen to get published you’ll know why.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        February 25, 2016, 4:04 pm

        “Phil, you’re unending good will and optimism towards Trump says more about you, than Trump. You are so engulfed in self-hatred, and have internalized so much antisemitism… “
        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/02/repeating-neutrality-vow-on-israel-trump-surely-senses-shift-in-us-mood/#comment-162215

        Wanna explain about the “engulfed in self-hatred” and “internalized antisemitism”? Those are very serious charges!

      • traintosiberia
        traintosiberia
        February 27, 2016, 6:09 pm

        Palestinians don’t need love from America. America should get the hell out of Middle East. If done, Arabs ill have a better future and Palestinin will achieve their goal.
        Israel can’t afford that probability. It depends on America for everything . Without America, Israel will be a lot lonely, Middle East will matter on the strength of its usefulness to America , and Israelis have to work like the rest of the world to survive and progress.

        Trump is the person who can make it happen. His anti Muslim rhetoric is just to appease the hurt and abandoned white middle class . His stance on illegal immigrants are honest,vital,valid,nd patriotic.

    • kalithea
      kalithea
      February 23, 2016, 1:00 pm

      you simply can’t resist the pleasure of seeing Israel cut loose by its benefactor and self destruct, just like Nazi Germany before it.

      This statement could only be written by a Zionist. If Israel self-destructs of its own making; is there a problem with that? I’m of the opinion that the universe has it’s own laws and one of those is that when a person, an entity or a state deserve to be taught the ultimate lesson it usually happens as a result of self-undoing.

      How can you pretend to care for the millions of Muslim Americans, Hispanics and POC and not hope for the demise of Zionism that will lead to justice for millions of Palestinians?

      Or am I totally wrong on this Phil? You can’t put yourself in a position of judging when your own intentions are duplicitous and flawed? So I’d say you’re off base. This is a case of you seeing the speck in the other and missing the board in your way.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 4:53 pm

        “I think unfortunately this comment lingers…”

        None of “rugal b’s” comments linger. Click his name, check his comment archive.

      • annie
        annie
        February 23, 2016, 8:24 pm

        and this has got to be the understatement of the year:

        giving you a tad of a credibility problem.

        rugal? gee ya think kalithea!

        I’m having a hard time assessing exactly where you really stand.

        he’s a zionist in disguise. he used to be a muslim zionist in disguise. i think, it’s hard to keep track. for some reason he’s privileged here at mondowiess. unlike everyone else he doesn’t have an archive (which [coincidentally!] is what happens when people are banned) so he doesn’t have to be accountable for what he says. it’s likely he’s a sockpuppet for a previously banned poster. probably the one who went bye bye that day before he showed up.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        February 24, 2016, 11:31 am

        Got it!

        Shorter “rugal b”: “Chill, everybody! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain! I am the…”

    • traintosiberia
      traintosiberia
      February 27, 2016, 5:56 pm

      Trump has agitated against illegal immigrants. His focus on Muslim is more of a product of the general attitude and feelings inculcated,rehashed,echoed,propagated and circulated by the Jewish figures overtly and covertly through comments in FOX,CNN ,writings printed in WSJ,NYT, and through productions of ills like Obsession,Third Jihad and numerous Hollywood productions with subliminal pervasive nti muslim ambience inbuilt in the script.
      So the tears on Muslim by the ridiculously anti American and PronIsraelimRubin come as surprise until one knows the inner workings of the neocon. Neocons will denounce neocon if that serves Israel,embrace Fasism if Fasiscm helps their loyalty and will bury American Firster if he or she cares a le more boutvUS nd just a tiny bit less about Israel.

  4. peterfeld
    peterfeld
    February 22, 2016, 3:25 pm

    What’s so interesting about Miller’s piece today is he argues Trump wants to stay neutral to “make a deal” but doesn’t mention his own 2005 article (which he appropriately aimed at himself and Dennis Ross) which said America had become “Israel’s lawyer” and therefore couldn’t be effective in negotiations, a situation that’s continued under Obama and likely to worsen under Hillary. He completely skips acknowledging that, by his own past words, Trump is right.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/22/AR2005052200883.html

  5. German Lefty
    German Lefty
    February 22, 2016, 4:11 pm

    What happened with my comment? Why didn’t it pass moderation?

  6. German Lefty
    German Lefty
    February 22, 2016, 4:51 pm

    The poll is strange. People are asked about their opinion on the “Palestinian Authority”, not on Palestinians. As an anti-Zionist, I would respond to the poll questions by saying that I view both Israel and the PA negatively. Likewise, a “liberal” Zionist could say that he has a positive opinion on the PA, because a two-state solution is Israel’s only chance to remain a “Jewish state”.
    I also think lowly of Iran. However, this doesn’t mean that I want to deny Iran its right to nuclear energy and also to nuclear weapons. Disliking someone is not the same as wanting to deny this person equal rights. Favorability doesn’t say anything about political views.

  7. Atlantaiconoclast
    Atlantaiconoclast
    February 22, 2016, 5:54 pm

    I don’t buy that the shift in public opinion is as significant a development as the writer of this piece claims. Sure it is better than if there was no change, but most Americans still see Israel as the victim and the Arab as the terrorist. However, if the masses of Americans who now fear Muslims knew what Israel has done to this nation, Israel would be finished, no matter what they think about Muslims and Arabs. Of course Christian Zionism makes the task harder, but most people are not THAT religious and would have a much lower impression of Israel if they only knew the truth. The movement to change our Mideast policy needs to expose Israel’s long history of crimes against the US if there is to be any change any time soon.

    But the fact that Trump had the balls to say this, and also slam W for failing to protect us on 9/11 and taking us into a “big, fat mistake!” is enough for him to get my vote.

  8. chris o
    chris o
    February 22, 2016, 11:43 pm

    Having read the piece, I am infuriated at David Aaron Miller for basically implying Trump is anti-Semitic, in the usual way it is done in casting questions on why he is so cold on Israel? Or why does he not love Israel with enough fervor?

    Miller seems like a fraud for fully ignoring Trump’s statement that it is mostly the Palestinian’s fault, and it might be impossible to make peace because of the way the Palestinians are raised to hate the Jews. It just seems like journalistic malpractice to leave that out of an assessment of Trump’s views on peace in the Middle East.

    • kalithea
      kalithea
      February 23, 2016, 10:43 am

      Miller is just resorting to typical Zionist gamesmanship, broadening the definition and scope of the Anti-Semitism snare.

      But thank you for proving with Trumps comments that he’ll only make the Palestinians lives more miserable and reverse whatever steps they’ve painstakingly managed to take in asserting their rights.

  9. Krauss
    Krauss
    February 23, 2016, 2:00 am

    We shouldn’t praise Trump so essentially being a realist on foreign policy. He would probably not care too much about Palestinians being colonised and brutalised.

    He fundamentally wants to get out of the Middle East and return to the role of the offshore balancer, which it was during the Cold War. That’s the smart way to conduct foreign policy, and it would imply less favoritism towards Israel, but he would still likely be for Israel. After all, his son-in-law is an ardent Zionist. He surrounds himself with Jews.

    Yes, he’d be better than Clinton but that’s because she’s basically a neocon Republican on Israel/Palestine. So go figure.

  10. echinococcus
    echinococcus
    February 23, 2016, 4:05 am

    Sanders is ignoring a populist political opportunity that Donald Trump has seized upon. Go figure.

    I wouldn’t call that “ignoring”: he’s taking the Fifth.
    Anything else will show him up as a guy who, as opposed to Rubio or Cruz or Clinton II, doesn’t even need the money to support invasion and genocide.

  11. kalithea
    kalithea
    February 23, 2016, 11:49 am

    Blacks and Latinos make up 30% of the U.S. population and Muslims 1%. These demographics tend to be more sympathetic to the oppressed Palestinians, because they were either oppressed themselves or marginalized in some way therefore the statistics on Americans favourability to Palestinians is dismal at best.

    59% favourability towards Israel merely demonstrates the staggering ignorance of the American public.

    Americans are too self-absorbed to care about what Israel is doing to the Palestinians; they understand only American power, and if Israel/Zionism helps further that power then that’s all they care about.

    I’m not sure I get what you’re hoping Trump will do, because you don’t make that clear in your article. Are you telling us that you think Trump will resurrect the two-state solution and broker an honest and fair deal for the Palestinians when this is a man who in his own business practices has screwed over others? Just yesterday I saw a report wherein he hid in fine print in glossy marketing materials designed for people buying properties with his brand name that those properties were not actually developed by him, but only licensed to use his name and I believe temporarily licensed. Trump has lawsuits against him in this regard and no one has really probed his business dealings for more dirt which no doubt exists.

    You actually think he can be trusted not to screw over the Palestinians in favor of Zionists? I was a little naïve myself at first but he has since removed all doubt.

    Here’s another point: presently Israel is coming close to destroying its legitimacy with all the land it stole and settled, perhaps not with the U.S.; but the rest of the world sees it that way already. And Israel is already in the zone of repeatedly breaching International Law on human rights to sustain the occupation and injustice Zionism breeds. Why risk reversing this inevitable process that will forcibly lead to justice for Palestinians for a vague and uncertain prospect of a deal that someone like Trump would broker?

    The two-state solution is no longer viable and hasn’t been for years now. Israel is pushing itself into a corner where the only legitimate option that the world can tolerate is one-state with rights for all as it is expected with all legitimately-recognized democracies. Palestinians have made some painstaking gains through the U.N. in asserting their rights albeit very modest no thanks to the U.S.

    Are you ready to see all this painfully-acquired progress discarded with the promise of a Trump deal?

    Reviving the two-state would only result in a horrific and tragic swindle for Palestinians because those 600,000 settlers are not going anywhere Trump or no Trump. So therefore it’s very difficult for me not to assume that you think short-changing the Palestinians is a necessary evil and that Trump is the man who’ll make it happen, because for the life of me I don’t see any deal that Trump could cook up that wouldn’t screw over the Palestinians big time.

    So maybe you can explain what kind of deal you think Trump might fairly broker. Because this is not a question of merely applying pressure on Israel with defunding or the threat of defunding. This is Trump bragging that he can make a deal happen. Well coming from someone who has no problem banning Muslims from the U.S.; who sides with the police in the indiscriminate killing of blacks; who smears all Latino immigrants with one brush and who disparages women the way he does and ridicules the physically challenged; I just don’t see how such a man will broker a just deal. How can such a man be trusted?

    Have you forgotten that Trump vowed 100% in January to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem reversing an earlier position at the drop of a hat for political gain? Do you honestly think this man can be trusted not to screw over Palestinians? (sigh…)

    http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/59491/trump-vows-to-move-american-embassy-to-jerusalem-jerusalem/#hELCTLigYcdOe2sV.97

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      February 23, 2016, 12:52 pm

      Kalithea: … Trump vowed 100% in January to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem –
      ————

      Absolutely key point.

      This is Trump bragging that he can make a deal happen.

      Yep. Playing up his deal-making kingpin image to differentiate himself from his rivals. It’s all hollow, meaningless rhetoric.

      A deal? The “peace process” has always been a sham. Now it’s visibly dead.

      Any meaningful policy has to involve increased pressure on Israel. Is Trump the man to do it?

      “I want to be very neutral and see if I can get both sides together.”

      Very neutral, after vowing to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. Okay, so you get the sides together. Great. And then….

      “A lot will have to do with Israel and whether or not Israel wants to make the deal — whether or not Israel’s willing to sacrifice certain things,” Trump said.

      “That may not be OK, and I understand that, and I’m OK with that,” he added. “But then you’re just not going to have a deal.”

      No, there won’t be deal. All major parties in Israel agree. [ Herzog: “a full peace agreement unfortunately isn’t around the corner and at this stage; it’s not possible to realize the two-state vision.” http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.702002 ]

      But Trump’s “OK with that.”

  12. kalithea
    kalithea
    February 23, 2016, 2:47 pm

    Here’s what I don’t get, and pardon me for going back to this. Here we have a candidate, Trump, who overtly hates on different groups and in the past there was a candidate, Ron Paul, who could have moved this cause a notch just by cutting funding to Israel and who was smeared as a racist for comments in newsletters he never authored but yes who was against exclusive rights, which is not altogether a bad thing since exclusivity is a form of discrimination. And you’re placing your hope in Trump while Paul was relegated to those who threw him under the bus. Granted they both come with significant disadvantages, so I’ll leave it at that. But…

    Why don’t we stop with all this denial and stop grovelling for every breadcrumb that lands on our cause and consider this: this new crop of candidates stinks like the last one or worse. It’s highly unlikely a candidate will appear on the scene with the integrity, moral guidance and guts to challenge the status quo and the powerful Zionist apparatus.

    So where does this leave things? Well first thing let’s get out of this denial mode pretending that Trump will usher justice of any kind and let’s stop pretending that Bernie would do likewise, although he might be slightly more compassionate, regardless of the fact that he has a monumental hurdle to overcome namely, the Clinton Machinery. So what are we left with?: the tireless efforts of good people fighting for justice day in and day out and that we can still bank on!

    It would be so refreshing, so unbelievably liberating if there appeared on the scene what we’ve all been praying for: a leader who really believes in justice for all and is not beholden to Zionist influence. Regrettably, he or she is not materializing, so let’s quit lowering the bar, selling out the Palestinian’s own struggle that is decades in the making and continue to push for justice in our own little way spreading with the only populace in the world that can single-handedly make a difference: the American people. It really is looking to me like it’s the will and efforts of people growing in numbers that will tear Zionism down.

    So nothing lost; nothing gained except for the fruits of the struggle to date, and the conviction and solidarity of the Palestinians and everyone who gradually join with them in this cause for justice. Think about it, how can we surrender our conviction and the painstaking gains made through so many years to someone like Trump for a deal that might undo all that is sacred because it was wrought by years of pain and hard work?

  13. kalithea
    kalithea
    February 23, 2016, 3:01 pm

    Why does my edited version always get zapped away when I post? Anyway this is the edited version.

    Here’s what I don’t get, and pardon me for going back to this. Here we have a candidate, Trump, who overtly hates on different groups and in the past there was a candidate, Ron Paul, who could have moved this cause a notch just by cutting funding to Israel and who was smeared as a racist for comments in newsletters he never authored but yes who was against exclusive rights, which is not altogether a bad thing since exclusivity is a form of discrimination. And you’re placing your hope in Trump while Paul was relegated to those who threw him under the bus. Granted they both come with significant disadvantages, so I’ll leave it at that. But…

    Why don’t we stop with all this denial and stop grovelling for every breadcrumb that lands on our cause and consider this: this new crop of candidates stinks like the last one or worse. It’s highly unlikely a candidate will appear on the scene with the integrity, moral guidance and guts to challenge the status quo and the powerful Zionist apparatus.

    So where does this leave things? Well first thing let’s get out of this denial mode pretending that Trump will usher justice of any kind and let’s stop pretending that Bernie would do likewise, although he might be slightly more compassionate, regardless of the fact that he has a monumental hurdle to overcome namely, the Clinton Machinery. So what are we left with?: the tireless efforts of good people fighting for justice day in and day out and that we can still bank on!

    It would be so refreshing, so unbelievably liberating if there appeared on the scene what we’ve all been praying for: a leader who really believes in justice for all and is not beholden to Zionist influence. Regrettably, he or she is not materializing, so let’s quit lowering the bar, selling out the Palestinian’s own struggle that is decades in the making and continue to push for justice in our own little way spreading the truth regarding Zionism with the only populace in the world that can single-handedly make a difference: the American people. It really is looking to me like it’s the will and efforts of people growing in numbers that will succeed in tearing Zionism down.

    Every election season we fall into the same trap; looking for the most miniscule reason to deny our integrity and grovel ready to surrender so much because we’re so desperate for this injustice to end.

    We should be thinking nothing lost; nothing gained except for the fruits of the struggle to date, and the conviction and solidarity of the Palestinians and everyone who gradually joins with them in this cause for justice. Think about it, how can we surrender our conviction and the painstaking gains made through so many years to someone like Trump for a deal that might undo all that is sacred because it was wrought by years of pain and hard work?

    There is no good outcome with this election for this cause, although, maybe a Sanders victory might be the least painful for the cause of justice overall.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      February 23, 2016, 6:04 pm

      “Why does my edited version always get zapped away when I post?”

      “Kalithea”, I think that can happen if you exceed the ‘edit window time’. Even if the ‘edit window’ is open, you lose the edited post when you press ‘Post’. (The original comment may disappear until the page is refreshed, too.)
      I think (don’t know) the ‘edit window’ is about ten minutes. Hope that helps

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