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The last Gaza war worried Scotland’s Jews– for all the wrong reasons

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When it comes to antisemitism and the impact of Israel-Palestine on our daily lives, the Jewish community in the UK asks the wrong questions, counts the wrong data and debates the wrong issues.

That’s what comes to mind when reading What’s changed about being Jewish in Scotland” research published this summer by the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities following an upsurge in reports of antisemitism during and following Israel’s summer 2014 assault on Gaza.

There are around 6,000 Jews living in Scotland, and 300 of them took part in the research via a questionnaire or focus groups. If the findings are representative, then Scotland’s Jews were certainly dismayed by Gaza in summer 2014 – but for all the wrong reasons.

According to the report’s authors, the findings show a heightened level of “anxiety, discomfort or vulnerability” among 32% of those surveyed as a direct result of Scottish public reaction to the Gaza conflict. In addition, 80% of respondents said that events during the summer of 2014 had negatively affected their experience of being Jewish in Scotland. In short, say the authors:

 “…the decline in people’s confidence and increase in their feelings of insecurity that we found were striking and extremely concerning.”

What’s not asked by the researchers, or the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities, is how we have reached this state of affairs, or whether the Scottish public’s criticism of Israel has any validity, nor what role our Jewish leadership has played in creating such a toxic atmosphere for ordinary Jews?
Of course not.

It wasn’t part of the researchers’ brief because we’re not up for having that debate.

Instead we prefer to count incidents of antisemitism, chart our growing discomfort as Jews, demand a proactive response from the police and politicians and propose more public education about Judaism.

None of this will do the slightest good. Not for Jews living in Scotland or anywhere else in the world.

Without a more open, honest, and above all moral debate about Zionism and Israel, we will continue to flounder in our response to antisemitism and fail to understand what’s enabling such hatred to flourish.

It’s worth looking at this short report from Scotland because it reveals so much about modern Jewish identity, its relationship to the State of Israel and the ignorance and/or denial that as Jews we seem happy to live with.

Here’s a few respondent quotes from ‘What’s changed about Being Jewish in Scotland’ to give you a sense of the concerns observed by the research:

“As a child and teenager growing up in Edinburgh, I was proud to say I was Jewish and it was viewed positively by Edinburgh people who often had memories themselves of growing up alongside Jewish people and spoke enthusiastically of that. I am very wary now to be upfront about being Jewish in certain circles, and especially after the events this summer [2014].” (Women in her 60s from Edinburgh)

“Although many people I interact with in Scotland don’t have issues with Judaism or Jews, they have a problem with Israel, and have difficulty separating that from Judaism as a whole. Especially as a student of International Relations, I do my best to avoid these conversations because they make me really uncomfortable and create what I think is unnecessary attention.” (Woman student under 21 in Fife)

“The conflation of the Israeli and Jewish identities within mainstream Scottish society has created a sense that the Scottish Jewish community is somehow accountable for Israeli responses in the Middle East.” (anonymous survey respondent)

The constant conflating of ‘Jewish’ ‘Zionist’ and ‘Israel’ in public discourse is a strong theme in the report. Yet not once do the respondents, or the authors, point to the Jewish community itself as bearing the slightest responsibility for muddling up these categories.

But a moment of serious reflection should remind any Jew living in the UK that we ourselves conflate Judaism, Zionism and Israel all of the time.

We pray for the State of Israel, its President and its army in our synagogue liturgy week in week out.

We see the modern State of Israel as the natural heir to the biblical Kingdom of Israel as if the intervening 2,000 years were of no consequence.

In research published in 2015, “The Attitudes of British Jews towards Israel,” the following statistics demonstrated how closely being Jewish and identifying positively with the modern State of Israel have become.

“The vast majority of our respondents support [Israel’s] right to exist as a Jewish state (90%), express pride in its cultural and scientific achievements (84%), see it as a vibrant and open democracy (78%) and say that it forms some part of their identity as Jews (93%).”

We only have to look at remarks made by the Chief Rabbi, Ephriam Mirvis, earlier this year to see how our religious leadership has allowed Judaism to undergo a successful merger with political Zionism:

 “…one can no more separate it [Zionism] from Judaism than separate the City of London from Great Britain.”

Mirvis is not the only one with a fragile grasp of modern history. His predecessor, Lord Jonathan Sacks, insists on understanding criticism of Israel as the modern mutation of age-old antisemitism.

“Anti-Semitism is a virus that survives by mutating. In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated because of their religion. In the 19th and 20th centuries they were hated because of their race. Today they are hated because of their nation state, Israel. Anti-Zionism is the new anti-Semitism.”

And what about our secular leadership? Did they leave us any better equipped to talk about being Jewish during the summer of 2014 in a way that would leave us less vulnerable to the sin of conflation?

The Board of Deputies describes itself as “the voice of British Jewry: a cross-communal, democratic, grassroots organisation, and thus the authoritative first port of call for Government, media and others seeking to understand Jewish community interests and concerns.”

So what the Board says and does is going to be, in most people’s eyes, what being Jewish must mean.

The Board published a summary of its work during the summer of 2014. It included the following activity which clearly sets out “our interests and concerns”:

  • Hosted 50 delegates from 26 pro-Israel organisations
  • Met with the BBC to complain about its coverage of Operation Protective Edge [the Gaza assault by Israel]
  • Raised concerns about the rise in antisemitic incidents with the then Home Secretary [now Prime Minister] Theresa May
  • Campaigned against anti-Israel boycott actions
  • Encouraged letter writing campaigns to MPs [Members of Parliament] in support of Israel’s “right to defend itself”

So how can Scottish Jews complain when the general public perceives that Jews automatically support Israel? The question ought to be: Why would they think anything different?

It’s wrong to hold all Jews collectively accountable for the actions of the State of Israel. But it’s also foolish to think that our own behaviour has nothing to do with creating that perception.

In Scotland the antisemitic incidents recorded took the form of graffiti and vandalism of Jewish communal property and abusive emails and phone calls and racist comments on social media.

None of that is pleasant. None of it is acceptable behaviour. And if hearing about these incidents makes Jewish people feel insecure and unsafe then we need to take their concerns seriously.

Currently, the way we respond to antisemitism shows we’re not serious at all about understanding what’s changing for Jews in Scotland or anywhere else as a direct result of decades of Palestinian oppression. We have come to see ourselves as the victims of Palestinian terror, never the other way around.

That mindset is now so entrenched within the Jewish community that when Glasgow City Council flew the Palestinian flag from their offices in solidarity with the people of Gaza, the Glasgow Jewish Representative Council said it was “angered and hurt” by the authority’s decision.

Other members of the Glasgow Jewish community expressed “disgust” and “horror” on the City Council’s Facebook page.

In the ‘What’s changed…’ report the authors write that: “Many respondents both in the survey and the focus groups talked about their dismay after Glasgow, Edinburgh, Fife, and West Dumbartonshire Councils flew the Palestinian flag from Council buildings during the summer of 2014.” They quote what they describe as a “typical comment” from a focus group participant:

 “What concerns me is the flying of the Palestinian flags – I’m not unsympathetic to the Palestinian cause, but the fact that they were flying a flag that represents a government that is dedicated to getting rid of Jews not only from Israel but elsewhere, I found offensive and an abandonment of a community that they represent.”

Remember, the councils in question were flying the Palestinian flag not the flag of Hamas. But the Jewish respondents don’t want to make those distinctions. The perception of the entire Israel-Palestinian dispute remains a topsy-turvy world where we Jews believe ourselves to be the powerless victims of irrational Arab hatred. Our secular and religious leaders have done a superb job. As a result, there is no such thing as Palestinian solidarity, there is only ever “anti-Israel gesture politics” to quote the Glasgow Jewish Representative Council.

While our Jewish leadership in Scotland, and elsewhere, were counting incidents of antisemitism, other people were counting something far worse in Gaza itself:

  • 2,251 Palestinians killed, including 1,462 civilians
  • 551 Palestinian children and 299 women among the civilians
  • 11,231 Palestinians injured, including 3,436 children and 3,540 women, 10 percent of whom suffer permanent disability
  • more than 1,500 Palestinian children orphaned
  • 18,000 housing units were destroyed in whole or part

But God forbid that we forget that it was Israel that was under attack from Hamas.

Between 7 July and 26 August 2014, Palestinian armed groups fired 4,881 rockets and 1,753 mortars towards Israel. As a result 67 Israeli soldiers were killed and 6 civilians.

In response the Israelis deployed 5,000 tons of munitions and fired 14,500 tank shells and around 35,000 artillery shells into one of the most densely populated strips of land on the planet.

The morality of all this was never discussed or debated let alone questioned or challenged by our religious or communal leaders (or in the sermons of local rabbis) either during the summer of 2014 or in the two summers since.

These things are not a topic for polite Jewish conversation.

We ask the wrong questions, we count the wrong things, we fail to have the debate that we so need to have.

How do we create an Israel that respects and protects the history, culture, religion of all the people in the land? How do we ensure that from the Jordan to the sea everyone (Jew and Palestinian) is free?

The authors of ‘What’s changed…’ recommend a number of actions as a result of their findings including greater education about Judaism in Scottish schools, improved interfaith relations and public displays of Judaism such as lighting Hanukkah menorahs.

But it’s we that need the education.

It’s we that don’t know enough, or can’t be bothered to find out, what a 50 year occupation of the West Bank has meant for millions of Palestinians.

It’s we that don’t know how Settlements trample on Palestinian human rights every day of the week.

It’s we that don’t have a clue what besieging Gaza means.

It’s we that think even Pre-67 Israel is a thriving democracy.

So let’s ask some different questions. Let’s count some different things. Let’s ask ourselves why being Jewish in Scotland and everywhere else, including Israel, can’t be a whole lot better than it is today.

This post first appeared on the Patheos site, and on Micah’s Paradigm Shift. 

Robert Cohen
About Robert Cohen

Cohen is a British writer. He blogs at Micah's Paradigm Shift. http://micahsparadigmshift.blogspot.co.uk/

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74 Responses

  1. Kay24
    Kay24
    August 16, 2016, 11:24 am

    A very interesting article. No one should be surprised that the backlash to Israel’s crimes, the occupation, and the decades of collective punishment is now affecting innocent Jews all around the world. This is only the now familiar reaction to what nations do. Americans going abroad are always warned of personal danger and attacks because they are Americans and there are many people out there who hate the US, and what it keeps doing to other nations. Likewise innocent Muslims all over the world are killed and harassed because of what those idiotic extremists like Daesh keep doing. Not only in Scotland, but the rest of the world were horrified by the relentless bombing of civilian structures, precision bombs sent into homes killing entire families, the sad sight of children being pulled out of the rubble, and the destruction of streets, by an occupier who has always had the unfair advantage of military might, deadly weapons, and US support.

    It is unfair, but these are the consequences of Israel’s occupation, and Jews all over the world must face the reality of misdirected anger.

    Unfortunately, Israel, the zionists, and Netanyahu, do not give a damn, they only use the diaspora Jews for political advantage, and will not change a single policy for them.

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      August 16, 2016, 6:28 pm

      Thoroughly agree with you Kay and I have written similar feelings on here before. I worry when I type such things it will be taken the wrong way i.e anti semitism blah blah. Fact is that what Israel does in a criminal manner does affect every Jew around the World. The pattern is all Jews are blamed and all are likened to Israeli Zionists whether they are or not. It is therefore imperative those Jews who want to feel safe put pressure on their governments to end ties with Israel and bring about its regimes demise. Only that will drive anti semitism down which since Netanyahu took power has grown and grown. Some people may not like it being like that but its a definite pattern that is visible and we have to deal with life on lifes terms whether we like it or not.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 16, 2016, 8:15 pm

        “The pattern is all Jews are blamed…”

        Oh, we don’t have to be blamed. There’s a whole lotta stuff which can happen to an elite group, far short of blame, and nowhere near persecution, which can effect big changes.
        For instance, an elite group can come to be, as events expose them, perceived as very ordinary people.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        August 16, 2016, 10:20 pm

        The diaspora can also threaten to stop supporting the Israeli government, so that the policies must change. No one can change any situation by showing their disapproval or concern, but then keep the support and protection going. Israel is propped up by the US and EU nations, and the Jewish people around the world, who have been made to feel they must show their loyalty to it, whatever it does.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 17, 2016, 12:03 am

        “the Jewish people around the world, who have been made to feel they must show their loyalty to it, whatever it does.”

        Grown-ups have to decide their feelings and their loyalty for themselves. If they show loyalty to Israel, they bear the moral responsibility for that decision.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        August 17, 2016, 1:17 am

        Kay24….I found this article at Electronic Intifada that gives good information on how far Pro israeli’s are going to discredit pro Palestinian groups. Shows the tactics and what the Pro Palestinians did to thwart it and win a court order against the Pro Israeli’s. Good info for future battles in the same situation coming to the US……….https://electronicintifada.net/content/bds-game-changer-germany/17581

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        August 17, 2016, 7:10 am

        Thanks Inbound, I will read it soon.

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 17, 2016, 8:31 am

        || RoHa: Grown-ups have to decide their feelings and their loyalty for themselves. If they show loyalty to Israel, they bear the moral responsibility for that decision. ||

        Unless holding them responsible is anti-Semitic, in which case others must shoulder the responsibility.

    • REALITY CHECK 101
      REALITY CHECK 101
      August 17, 2016, 11:20 pm

      “Israelis must be aware that the price of their misconduct is paid not only by them but also Jews throughout the world.” -former Director of Israeli Military Intelligence Yehoshafat Harkabi

  2. eljay
    eljay
    August 16, 2016, 11:42 am

    … “Although many people I interact with in Scotland don’t have issues with Judaism or Jews, they have a problem with Israel …

    And rightly so: It’s an oppressive, colonialist, belligerent, intransigent, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist state.

    … and have difficulty separating that from Judaism as a whole. …

    You might want to take that up with all the Zio-supremacists who routinely:
    – proclaim Israel as the “Jewish State”;
    – insist that Israel is the “historic homeland” and “one true homeland” of every person in the world who happens to be or who chooses to be Jewish; and
    – conflate Israel with all Jews and all Jews with Israel.

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      August 16, 2016, 6:31 pm

      Eljay….I have never seen a hasbarat produce proof of a referendum held that showed ALL Jews voted for Israel to represent them or speak on their behalf.

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 17, 2016, 7:24 am

        || inbound39: Eljay….I have never seen a hasbarat produce proof of a referendum held that showed ALL Jews voted for Israel to represent them or speak on their behalf. ||

        Zio-supremacists don’t use proof, because proof is anti-Semitic. Instead, they use “proof”, which they make up as they go along.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        August 17, 2016, 8:23 pm

        Yes Eljay….what Zionists need to learn is the difference between anti semitic and anti semantic….lol :)

  3. Raphael
    Raphael
    August 16, 2016, 11:50 am

    Here is another reason, why fundamentalist right wing Israelis would get along just fine with their Arab fundamentalist neighbors; they need the cheap” labor, regardless, of that the media says, about the conflict.

    When I was living in Israel… many times I could not tell the difference of who was a Jew or a Arab, in how they looked… and, also, their philosophy in life was similar in many ways.

    The Jerusalem Post
    IDF chief: Over 50,000 Palestinians infiltrate into Israel from West Bank daily

    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Eisenkot-Over-50000-Palestinians-infiltrate-to-Israel-from-West-Bank-daily-464248

    • eljay
      eljay
      August 16, 2016, 12:57 pm

      || Raphael: … The Jerusalem Post
      IDF chief: Over 50,000 Palestinians infiltrate into Israel from West Bank daily … ||

      As many as 60,000 Palestinians a day are “infiltrating” Israel and not killing Jews.

      As many as 21,900,000 “infiltrations” a year and Israeli Jews have yet to be “wiped off the map and pushed into the sea”.

      Huh.

      The IDF chief does an excellent job of putting the fear-mongering about Gaza’s “terror tunnels” into perspective.

      • Raphael
        Raphael
        August 16, 2016, 2:00 pm

        I actually seen how Israelis and Arab workers interact with each other… Arab workers possibly even from over the wall…and, how they interact with each other, they (right wing Israelis and conservative Arabs) all speak the same language, that is why there is a, wink and nod, rule about letting Arabs come to Israel too work.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        August 16, 2016, 4:39 pm

        Perhaps he got an “F” in basic arithmetic. :))

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        August 16, 2016, 6:36 pm

        Hahahahahahaha Kay……rotflmho!…..seems to me these Zionists scored F for most things….Diplomacy, Integrity, Humanity etc etc.

  4. gamal
    gamal
    August 16, 2016, 1:06 pm

    “Remember, the councils in question were flying the Palestinian flag not the flag of Hamas. But the Jewish respondents don’t want to make those distinctions.”

    whats the distinction and why is it of import.

    Hamas in its conflict with Zionism is 100% in the right, you will feel better when you can acknowledge that and has made numerous laudable proposals to their Zionist assailants.

    “that represents a government that is dedicated to getting rid of Jews not only from Israel but elsewhere, I found offensive and an abandonment of a community that they represent.” ”

    this is just contemptible, woeful you think Arabs, Muslims, Black people or leftists are going to dialogue with this kind of crap.

    “Our secular and religious leaders have done a superb job”

    but in the end you must take responsibility because you will experience the consequences of this vicious inhumanity,

    there is no safe level of Zionism if you let it have the Jewish community you have no one to blame but yourselves for the consequences, you can’t hide behind Hamas as you have for decades behind, suicide bombers, Islam, terrorists, militants, Arafat or the whole grotesqueries you have created to absolve yourselves and through which you view us or even “antisemitism”.

    “How do we create an Israel that respects and protects the history, culture, religion of all the people in the land?” and punish the crimes that have been committed, return what has been stolen, sure we and the Palestinians get no say, UK Jews are going to sort it.

    ” Let’s ask ourselves why being Jewish in Scotland and everywhere else, including Israel, can’t be a whole lot better than it is today.”

    as Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse writes in “Not for Happiness” of real religious engagement it ” will not bring the kind of comfort and ease most worldly people crave.”

    I am just listening to the conviction of the Choudary nutter in the UK, tough to be Jewish though.

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      August 16, 2016, 1:58 pm

      Thanks gamal. This was a good article in that it raised some important points, but there was a lot of conceptual, idk, “curve-fitting” to get there.

  5. ritzl
    ritzl
    August 16, 2016, 1:53 pm

    A) Good article.

    B) If there’s only 6000 Jews in Scotland perhaps some enterprising student could take some time and ask EVERY one of them the right/non-victim questions. It’s totally doable.

    The results would be interesting.

    C) This raises the question of what “all” means (as in “all Jews”). If 99% (5940) of the Jews in Scotland support routinely slaughtering children is it OK to make the general statement ofmoral depravity or blame? 99.9%? 99.99%? 99.999%?

    D) My guess is that no such survey of all the Jews in Scotland will ever be undertaken for fear of just this result. What if it was 99% support for Israel and the inseparability of Zionism and Judaism? The plausible deniability/cultivated innocence required to assert victimhood would evaporate in a heartbeat.

    That ambiguity will NEVER be risked. As good, empathetic, and clearly heartfelt as this article is, Mr. Cohen himself used that ambiguity to soften his message. By softening his message he makes it less urgent and implies/assures that more Palestinians will need to die to buy the Jewish “community” in Scotland some more time to make up its mind on the morality of regular human slaughter and whether they are involved and/or rightfully negatively impacted by public moral opinion (and correct accordingly).

    E) Sounds like Scotland needs a Mooser! Or at least a Mooser Institute of Didactic Embarrassment.

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      August 17, 2016, 2:28 am

      They might be living in the wrong place if they support Occupation. Scotland is still fighting for Independence.

  6. YoniFalic
    YoniFalic
    August 16, 2016, 2:02 pm

    As an ex-Israeli I just tell people that I got over Jewishness years ago, and no longer murder Pali boys and girls.

    When I think about my Jewish ancestral heritage, I want to jump in the shower and scrub.

    As long as Israel continues to exist, I consider my approach and reaction to Jewishness to make the most sense.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 17, 2016, 1:17 am

      As long as a majority of people considering themselves Jewish do not show the same reaction, it will remain the only really justified attitude regarding that identification.
      I propose distributing loofas or bath gloves.

      • catalan
        catalan
        August 17, 2016, 1:21 pm

        Echi,
        Let us agree that Jewish is not an “ethnicity”, whatever that may be. In my case it is not a religion either, as I am not observant of the ritual, I practice Yoga and the religion of scepticism. So, what is it?
        It is hard to be something in this world, because most people are defined by aversion and animosity, rather as a sense of belonging. Being human is lonely.
        Regardless, plain logic says that all nationalism is wrong, I.e borders are arbitrary lines drawn by armies in which the populations are manipulated to think that they belong. It is what we are stuck with and the question we should be asking is, do we choose love or anger. What feels better to you?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 17, 2016, 6:03 pm

        Feel? There’s nothing to “feel”. If the yarn you told us is true, you’re a US citizen of Bulgarian origin with Sefardí culture and possibly a Djudió-speaker. Not complicated or tribal enough?

  7. catalan
    catalan
    August 16, 2016, 2:34 pm

    “When I think about my Jewish ancestral heritage, I want to jump in the shower and scrub. -” Yoni
    I feel the exact same way! I always wanted to be something cooler, like English or French. In spite of the power that I yield as a Jew over the worlds of finance, entertainment, and law, I still feel that being French is where it’s at.

    • Keith
      Keith
      August 16, 2016, 5:30 pm

      CATALAN- “…I still feel that being French is where it’s at.”

      Is Bernard-Henri Levy hiring? It wouldn’t hurt to send a CV just in case. Hint: if you get an interview, it helps to be able to spell hors d’oeuvres without having to Google it like I just did. Good luck!

    • talknic
      talknic
      August 16, 2016, 9:07 pm

      @ catalan August 16, 2016, 2:34 pm

      “When I think about my Jewish ancestral heritage, I want to jump in the shower and scrub. -” Yoni //

      “I feel the exact same way … In spite of the power that I yield as a Jew over the worlds of finance, entertainment, and law”

      Take your hands off that and raise them in the air, turn around slowly and step out of the shower

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 17, 2016, 1:13 am

      Bulga_R, pardon, Catalan doesn’t manage to always hit the right notes. All of a sudden, he forgot all his accumulated blabber and serves us piping hot equivalence of “Jewish” to nationalities, “like English or French”.
      When you want to impersonate a well-defined fictitious or semireal character, you have to remember exactly all you wrote before.
      Anyway, I suppose that in the order his supposed inferiority feelings, English or French allows a disdainful sneer in the direction of Bulgarians…

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 17, 2016, 11:21 am

        “When you want to impersonate a well-defined fictitious or semireal character, you have to remember exactly all you wrote before.”

        “Catalan”, “Raphael” and “Silamcuz” need to assiduously study “Max Narr”. Note the economy of words! That, right there, is the secret.

        I know what I’m talking about, fellas. My “Steve Grover” was exposed immediately.

    • eljay
      eljay
      August 17, 2016, 8:34 am

      || catalan: … I always wanted to be something cooler, like English or French. In spite of the power that I yield as a Jew over the worlds of finance, entertainment, and law, I still feel that being French is where it’s at. ||

      And there’s no shame in that. Not everyone’s cut out to be an Elder.  :-P

    • Froggy
      Froggy
      August 18, 2016, 12:21 pm

      catalan :: …I still feel that being French is where it’s at.

      -LOL-

      I must warn you that in order to be French you have to master this :

      https://girlsguidetoparis.com/how-to-tie-your-scarf-like-a-parisian-2/

      It’s required. :)

  8. Bumblebye
    Bumblebye
    August 16, 2016, 3:09 pm

    Oh dear.
    Poor Scottish Jews, they won’t be so happy about this tomorrow:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14684122.Protests_to_target_Israel_culture_festival_at_the_Fringe/

    International Shalom to be targetted with a peaceful protest at the Edinburgh Festival.

    Or this:

    http://www.albawaba.com/loop/uk-football-fans-plan-warm-welcome-israeli-team-%E2%80%93-palestinian-flags-872168

    When their team plays the Israeli team tomorrow, the fans intend to display Palestinian flags.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      August 16, 2016, 4:46 pm

      The second article was dated 11th August. Do you know what happened to that great idea, and how it was received?

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 16, 2016, 4:54 pm

        Tomorrow, kay!
        Both take place Aug 17.

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 16, 2016, 5:12 pm

        Apologies for the brevity, my tom-cat has the weepiest miaow when he wants attention – cannot be denied! (He’s at it again now.) I’m sure he’s taken lessons from toddlers and dogs – never come across the like before!

        Will try to keep on both.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      August 16, 2016, 5:02 pm

      I hope they show up with LOTS of Palestinian flags and show their disapproval for what Israel is doing. If possible keep us posted. Thanks.

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 17, 2016, 6:16 pm

        I found an update on the Edinburgh Festival event, with pics:

        http://www.theedinburghreporter.co.uk/anti-israel-demonstration-at-shalom-festival-in-tollcross/

        but no matter how I combine Celtic FC and Hapoel Beersheba and try to google, for some weird reason tablet complains about connection. (It isn’t doing with other stuff – except the dodo.)

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 17, 2016, 6:48 pm

        @BumbleBye

        News item posted 4 hours ago on the match and flags

        http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-face-yet-another-uefa-8650376

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 17, 2016, 7:00 pm

        Thanks oldgeezer!
        I’ve a poor wifi connection at the moment, but it seems to work for most other things.
        Celtic won, 5-2!

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 17, 2016, 7:11 pm

        Not only did they win but the flags are quite beautiful!

        A flag upsets Israeli consciences. Denial will not make Palestine go away.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        August 17, 2016, 8:32 pm

        Crikey oldgeezer….just followed the link….what an amazing sight to behold. Oh to be a fly on Netanyahu’s wall. Bet he is spitting tacks! The groundswell against Israel is beginning to increase speed alarmingly. This year is a definite year for change. Scotland is a great place for Palestinian support for obvious reasons. The Scots KNOW what occupation is all about.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        August 18, 2016, 7:34 am

        I just saw these comments and agree that it is a sight to behold!

        I would love to see this amazing sight here in the US too. There is no doubt you can show your support for this good cause quietly, by just holding up so many Palestinian flags.

        Those Celtic fans are amazing and so brave.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        August 18, 2016, 12:19 pm

        There were lots of beautiful Palestinian flags – wonderful pictures!

      • amigo
        amigo
        August 18, 2016, 2:09 pm

        Celtic v Rangers yarn.

        During a Celtic v Rangers match a Celtic fan found himself in the midst of a crowd of Rangers fans.A few minutes into the game , Celtic scored and when the Celtic fan started jumping up and down , he suddenly felt a large hand on his shoulder.On looking back he saw a giant Ranger,s fan who said , “hey yew , ya little Celtic b—–rd , go and get me a cup of coffee and leave yer shoe here so I ken your coming back.On returning and handing the coffee to the Ranger,s fan the Celtic fan observed a large turd in his shoe but said nothing.Minutes later , Celtic scored again and the the Rangers fan repeated his former demand .On returning and handing over the coffee the little celtic b—–d found his other shoe had a turd in it.

        On the way out of the game the Celtic fan was asked how these battles between Celtic and Rangers do not turn into a full scale battle to which the Celtic fan responded !!.

        Ah, ya ken , as long as they are crapping in our shoes and we are pissing in their coffee , there,s nay a problem.

        Kudos to those who buck the system and fly the Palestinian flag.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      August 18, 2016, 7:37 am

      It was an amazing sight. This should be followed by other fans all over the world.

      It would be amusing to hear the howls of anti-semitism coming from zio land.

  9. Kay24
    Kay24
    August 16, 2016, 5:18 pm

    Watch IDF scum terrorize innocent Palestinian kids sitting harmlessly, and no danger to the armed thugs:

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-israelis-use-stun-grenade-unprovoked-attack-youths

    Zionism is an evil ideology.

  10. RoHa
    RoHa
    August 17, 2016, 12:09 am

    Incidentally, is that map supposed to show that Jews dominate Scotland from a headquarters somewhere near Kingussie, or is it just s proposal for a Star of David tartan?

  11. henrytobias
    henrytobias
    August 17, 2016, 9:53 am

    What a load of Jewish self-hating bullshit!

    • eljay
      eljay
      August 17, 2016, 10:06 am

      || henrytobias: What a load of Jewish self-hating bullshit! ||

      Yup, I’ve never understood why Zio-supremacist Jews hate themselves and their fellow Jews so much.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 17, 2016, 12:27 pm

      “What a load of Jewish self-hating bullshit!”

      Thank God you are here, Mr. “henrytobias”!! Please don’t go! Our resident expert on “Jewish self-hating” is not being very forthcoming about the “sad disease” (as he so affectingly calls it; sorta zings the string of your heart, donnit?)

      Can you give us some more information about “Jewish self-hating”? Please? The suspense is awful, like the days before definitive tests for the clap.

      First of all, the big one: How many Jews are afflicted with “Jewish self-hating”.
      And how does one determine if the particular Jew one is dealing with is a sufferer from the heartbreak of “internalized anti-semitism”?

      No wait, this isn’t fair, I’m only doing this because I am so worried, I have no right to free medical advice.
      “henrytobias” could you recommend a good book or website dealing with “Jewish self-hating” ?

      You know, something like “Weird old trick to avoid Jewish self-hatred” or something.

      I’m so famischt about this. I’ve got to calm down. I’ll sing a song, that’ll help.

      “I’m a self-hater
      I’m a self-hater
      My, oh my,
      I’m a Jewish guy.

      I’ve got convulsions,
      of self repulsion!
      Here comes one now.
      Oy, Oy, Oy

      But whenever I detect
      Members of the other sects
      I play the game I do so well, oh

      I’m a self-hater, I’m a self-hater…”

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      August 19, 2016, 6:51 pm

      I sense poor wee henrytobias is feelin’ a wee bit left oot. Stap yerr greetin’ son an’ harden up! Yere nae a victim.

  12. amigo
    amigo
    August 17, 2016, 1:57 pm

    Holding on to the perception of victim hood is the life blood of all zionists and many Jews.They know , that when this mask is removed the game is up.Any suggestion that this victim hood is no longer in existence is met with accusations of anti semitism /blood libel/ pogrom and the intent to kill all Jews ,etc and this deeply held tenet extends to the State of Israel no matter what crimes it commits in the name of those Jews — including Scottish Jews .Tribalism at any price. Even the destruction of the tribe.

    Self imposed and administered myopia.

  13. oldgeezer
    oldgeezer
    August 17, 2016, 2:13 pm

    This is a difficult issue.

    Jewish people should not be held accountable for the actions of the state of Israel.

    That said there is no doubt that the GoI, zionists and local Jewish leadership have played a huge role in this situation arising.

    The claims by Israel to be the state of all Jews, to speak for all Jews. The conflation of Israel with Jews. The comments by local Jewish leadership claiming the necessity of Jewish support for Israel and further claiming all Jews do support Israel. zionist hasbrarats do all of the above. Quite vocally and in a very nasty aggressive way.

    I don’t agree that more Jews have to speak out against Israel. No more than I think more Muslims need to speak out against radical Islam. Or common westerners against western meddling in world affairs. It would be nice in all cases but it is not a requirement.

    I think Jewish people need to reclaim their religion from zionists and the extremist Jewish radicals. How this can be done I don’t know.

    Jewish leaders who seek increased protection for local Jewish people while they pursue increased protection for the rogue apartheid state only exacerbate the situation due the extreme hypocracy in that position. We aren’t responsible but we’ll make major efforts and pour massive funds into protecting the racist state.

    There hasn’t been a natural increase in antisemitism. There may well be an increase but it is due to the actions of the GoI as well as the actions of local zionists who seek to impinge on western rights to keep us quiet.

    The situation can be solved by the simple act of having Israel adhere to the UDHR, IL, IHL and GC.

    If abiding by the law threatens Israel then it has no right to exist in it’s current form.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 17, 2016, 4:41 pm

      “Jewish people should not be held accountable for the actions of the state of Israel.”

      There’s enough moral, intellectual and social accountability to go around.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        August 17, 2016, 8:38 pm

        I like the fact I discovered this site. It has improved my understanding of jewish people far more. Zionism hijacked judaism for its own purposes and you have taught me Mooser that not ALL Jews support it. Many other Jewish people have taught me that here also and I thank you….specifically you though Mooser because you use a medium I love….humour.

  14. Mooser
    Mooser
    August 17, 2016, 4:29 pm

    “I think Jewish people need to reclaim their religion from zionists and the extremist Jewish radicals. How this can be done I don’t know.”

    If we get us some non-Zionist Judaism going, we can ignore the problem and just pretend Israel and Zionism doesn’t exist?
    No, that won’t work, and it’s hardly honest.
    Okay, then, it’ll be anti-Zionist Judaism! Oh great, now we are actually, or appear to be, wishing harm on other Jews, that’s lovely.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      August 17, 2016, 6:43 pm

      @Mooser

      I probably should have let the article alone. I was in a rush and I didn’t want to write an essay. I still am and don’t.

      I don’t agree with your interpretation but the major responsibility for that is on me.

      As long as the GoI claim to speak and act on behalf of all Jews.
      As long as zionists claim all Jews support Israel and any that don’t are fakes or self haters.
      As long as Jewish religious leaders claim Israel is part of Judaism.

      One can’t be surprised that the end result is some violence is perpetrated on some Jews as a result.

      Is it deserved? No. Should there be? No. Will there be? Yes, most likely.

      Mixing politics, statehood and religion is dangerous. There will be some who listen to those people and don’t have the sense to question and separate the issues.

      As with Islam such confusion shouldn’t occur but does. It would be best to separate the religion from the political. That is what I meant by reclaim.

      I have no idea how. I just fear for innocent people who will inevitably be hurt but the nutters who see violence as and answer and don’t have the good sense to distinquish one thing from the other.

      As a ps. Supporting Israel is not a reason to target someone. People should never be targetted for their beliefs. They shouldn’t be but we know they often are.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        August 17, 2016, 8:44 pm

        I guess oldgeezer it is largely dependant on whether someone tries to impose their beliefs and or will on others or whether they hold their own beliefs and happily respect others beliefs. In my view there is no supreme belief……we just have different ways of paying respect to a higher power….whatever it may or may not be. All humans need faith of some kind. Without it we become too egotistical and lack humility.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 17, 2016, 9:14 pm

        Oldgeezer

        People should never be targetted for their beliefs.

        But they aren’t targeted for their beliefs –it’s because they act on them.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 17, 2016, 11:28 pm

        @echinoccus

        No, some people are targeted for their beliefs. I was talking generality. Some are targeted for their appearance, etc.

        I don’t believe supporting Israel is a reason to target someone. Just as supporting BDS or Hamas is not a valid reason. By support I mean agree with the cause or goal. Once one crosses over to physical acts of direct support it can be a new ball game.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 18, 2016, 1:57 am

        (not-so-) Old Geezer,

        No contest. Although I have the impression that there is in careful political language a red line between sympathy and support, the latter generally meaning action. As in, say: liking politician X, initiator of war of aggression, is not a reason for retribution –voting for same should be.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 18, 2016, 12:14 pm

        @echinococcus

        I have difficulty with targetting people based on their voting.

        How often habe western democracies voted in some politician who failed to deliver on any of their promises. Or worse, done the complete opposite to that which they said they would. It also presumes that in any election there may only a few issues or single issue.

        The argument is used by the GoI to target all Palestinians particularly in Gaza. It is also used to justify abuses of their human rights (i.e. polls show 95% support Hamas).

        I tend to side with the GC in terms of protection of civilians. Although I have some reservations about off duty reservists.

        But yeah there is a point at which someone becomes a valid target. I don’t think I can make a definitive statement as to where I think it lies. I don’t think I can envisage all the potential situations. But…. yes.

  15. mariapalestina
    mariapalestina
    August 17, 2016, 11:34 pm

    It has always irritated me that Israel never goes to war against Palestine. Israel’s warmongers are too cunning to do that, since everyone knows Palestinians aren’t allowed to have weapons to defend themselves. No Army, Navy or Air Force. No warships, no tanks, no F-16 fighter planes or helicopter gunships. And certainly no white phosphorous.

    Instead Israel “defends itself” against “Hamas” which in my opinion is merely the political party elected by the Palestinian people, just as Likud is the political party elected by the Israeli people (though in the case of Likud not really elected by a majority.) Just as Likud has a military wing, the IDF, so does the Hamas party have a militant wing.

  16. Kay24
    Kay24
    August 18, 2016, 6:57 am

    You will never see this in the US. A sea of Palestinian flags waved in support of the Palestinians.
    Great idea.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/celtic-facing-uefa-rap-after-8655579

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      August 20, 2016, 4:51 am

      I would not say never Kay24. It is more likely to happen now or in the very near future than at any other time in America’s history because the secret is out. It is my belief that the average American will not tolerate what Israel is doing nor will they tolerate the billions in dollars of taxpayer money being sent to Israel to maintain its criminal actions. America by my perception is sitting on the edge of a new resurgence this time with eyes wide open.

  17. justicewillprevail
    justicewillprevail
    August 18, 2016, 8:55 am

    And if you need any more reasons why decent people in Scotland dislike Israel and its oppressive, ruthless apartheid behaviour:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14688619.Watch__Home_of_banned_Palestinian_journalist__raided_by_Israeli_soldiers__while_he_is_in_Scotland/

    Punished for visiting Scotland and illustrating the nature of the israeli regime.
    And they set up stalls to promote peace and love – lol.

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      August 18, 2016, 5:16 pm

      Great link jwp. Thanks.

      A real teeth-gnasher. Punished for just telling his story. Why do they do it?

      And on the UK side, Hamde Abu Rahman is an excellent photojournalist. It’s self-evident. Aspiring conflict journalists could learn so much from him. Having him visit the UK would only be a positive – COULD only be a positive. Yet he is denied a visa. Along with all the obvious reasons of malice, it’s just so unnecessary.

      Incomplete thought alert, but of all the affronts to conscience that might foster enough disgust to bring change to the Palestinian cause, “so unnecessary” may just be the most influential.

      Unlike all the other explanations which may or may not be transient or aggravated or with some imagined cause that might be identified with or puzzled out, “unnecessary” just shows an ingrained sickness that defies understanding and/or explanation.

      Conclusion: Unknowable.

      Suspension of disbelief about Israel’s malevolent behavior gets mentally defenestrated.

      FWIW.

      • ritzl
        ritzl
        August 18, 2016, 5:18 pm

        Oops. Mispelled. shb @hamdeaburahma

      • justicewillprevail
        justicewillprevail
        August 18, 2016, 7:54 pm

        Why do they do it?

        Malice, spite, vindictiveness, envy, hatred, demonstration of their power and its absolute rule without accountability, control, to silence people, prevent discussion and education or dissemination of the truth, intimidation, bullying, humiliation, harassment, theft, sadism, ethnic cleansing, destruction of institutions and punishment of articulate, talented Palestinians.

        Everything they have been doing for decades, but would prefer the world not to hear about, and will mete out these cruel and vindictive punishments to accomplish their goal of silencing Palestinians and their supporters.

        And they have the gall to set up in Edinburgh to ‘promote understanding’. It’s ok, we understand only too well.

    • annie
      annie
      August 18, 2016, 5:30 pm

      how horrendous! i think it’s likely they do this to train their soldiers how to harass and demand palestinian submission. the village is used as a live setting they routinely use like a zoo or something. ‘ok guys, let’s do a raid training just for the heck of it to harass the family if he’s going to expose us internationally we’ll give them hell!’

  18. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    August 18, 2016, 12:47 pm

    Now what if the State of Palestine and its soccer clubs applied to be affiliated to the UEFA as opposed to the Arab or West Asian Football Federations. After all it is in exactly the same geographical location as the Jewish State in the Levant which is in UEFA ( and the Eurovision Song Contest ).

    Now that would really put the cat amongst the pigeons and have the Yahoo and his Fascist cabal further decorating their already heavily solved pants.

    Well done to the Celtic supporters – perhaps they should nudge Abbas and Co towards the option of applying for European sporting affiliations by having flags such “Support Palestine`s membership of UEFA”

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