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American Jews now have ‘a duty to oppose Israel,’ David Rothkopf says

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“For American Jews we have gone from a duty to support Israel to a duty to question Israel to a duty to oppose Israel. This law did that,” foreign policy maven David Rothkopf wrote yesterday, about the new law declaring Israel the “nation-state of the Jewish people.”

The Carnegie Endowment scholar and former editor of Foreign Policy had a dialogue on twitter with Jerusalem journalists who blamed Netanyahu’s government for the law. One of them, Noga Tarnopolsky, responded that American Jews have “a duty to save Israel by standing firm vis-à-vis the Israeli government.”

“Why? Why is there a duty? How long does that duty remain?” Rothkopf shot back.

How many abuses must take place? How many laws like this that claim racism as the national character and ethnic purity as its goal?… my point is that at some point my duty as an American (and as a Jew) is to actively oppose an ethno-nationalist regime that is systematically undermining the human rights of people within its borders & threatening peace and int’l values….

For several years I have been arguing to friends in Israel that a generational change in the US would irrevocably alter the relationship between the countries. Now, it is clear, that a change in the character of Israel’s leadership & laws might accelerate that.

Arthur Lenk, a former Israeli ambassador, leaped in to instruct Rothkopf that Israel was in his heart.

“Being anti-Trump doesn’t make someone anti-American. Disagreeing with Israel’s government should not leap to opposing Israel. Israel (like the USA), bad laws or not, is in your heart.”

Rothkopf said Israel was no longer in his heart because of that racist identity.

That is true, up until a point. That point is when that which is in your heart no longer exists. There is a difference between bad laws and a fundamental change in the identity and values of the nation. The nation-state law pushed Israel across that line.

Lenk: “Sad for you. Wrong analysis for us.” Rothkopf: “It is sad. Not for me. For Israel.”

Rothkopf’s declensions are riveting because he is an establishment bellwether who has been open about his changing feelings about Israel in recent years, and now open about his former Jewish “duty” to support Israel. That “duty” was also articulated by longtime White House aide Dennis Ross telling a synagogue audience two years ago that “We need to be advocates for Israel,” not for Palestinians. Surely Jews are privileged in the US discourse of Israel (as Nada Elia has written), and that is problematic. But the privilege is part and parcel of the Israel lobby, of which Rothkopf was once a solid member.

Ten weeks ago, Rothkopf was enraged by the Gaza massacre–again, as a Jew.

Israel’s brutal treatment of the demonstrators in Gaza…and Gaza itself…is the anti-Passover. It represents the height of hypocrisy: A supposedly Jewish state violating the most basic concepts of the religion in order to defend its “right to exist.”

And a few years back Rothkopf published an exchange with his college roommate Michael Oren, the former Israeli ambassador (and fantasist of New Jersey pogroms) in which Rothkopf said that Zionism was “exactly the wrong response to history.”

The best protection (as the United States has demonstrated) is to institutionalize the concept of tolerance and diversity and to work tirelessly to ensure that the powerful impulses to segregate and divide are quashed. It is not easy. But it has made the United States the most successful experiment in cultural diversity in history — though only after a series of horrific errors, including slavery and the genocide against Native Americans and the devaluing of the role of women, were ultimately remedied. We’re not there yet.

Ten years ago Rothkopf, accepting the Jewish duty of supporting Israel, smeared Walt and Mearsheimer as anti-Semitic cranks for slamming the Israel lobby:

They may not be anti-Semites themselves [meaning: they may be] but they made a cynical decision to cash in on anti-Semitism by offering to dress up old hatreds in the dowdy Brooks Brothers suits of the Kennedy School and the University of Chicago. They did what the most desperate members of academia do, they signed up to be rent-a-validators, akin to expert witnesses who support the defense of felons with specious theories served up on fancy diplomas…. In reality they were giving one crowd in particular precisely what it wanted to hear.

Now he is blunt about

“an ethno-nationalist regime that is systematically undermining the human rights of people within its borders & threatening peace and int’l values.”

Who will be next to shed the Jewish duty to support Israel? And what liberal Zionist who sees it as his duty “to oppose Israel” will endorse the 13-year-old Palestinian call for solidarity, Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions?

Thanks to Yakov Hirsch

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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68 Responses

  1. Kay24
    Kay24
    August 2, 2018, 9:14 am

    Are these staunch Israeli supporters in the US honest enough to admit that Israel does not deserve their unwavering support, and US dollars anymore? It is better late than never I suppose, although for the Palestinians it is almost too late. Why didn’t they see this coming? I guess love is blind, deaf, and dumb.

    Would they now regret that they have been supporting and enabling Israel’s occupation and land grabs?

    I notice that the MSM has not touched on our top aid recipient becoming a right wing apartheid nation at all. Surely it is important enough to bring it to the notice of the US tax payers?

    I wonder if ANY of our policies regarding support for Israel would now change.
    We also (stupidly) handed over Jerusalem to an apartheid nation. Jerusalem was meant to be a land shared by all 3 Abrahamic religions, so Muslims and Christians (evangelicals too) can forget that concept, and thank Trump/Kushner/Netanyahu for that loss. Israel and the zionists want it ALL.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 2, 2018, 3:42 pm

      Kay,

      You “notice that the MSM has not touched on our top aid recipient becoming a right wing apartheid nation at all”
      precisely because “[w]e also (stupidly) handed over” political power to your War Party, which has enthusiastically concentrated all power in the hands of Zionists over said MSM, the much more effective Hollywood, telecommunications and more.

  2. Marnie
    Marnie
    August 2, 2018, 10:35 am

    Maybe not too late, but definitely too little. It’s going to take a lot more than not filling a tzedeka box. People have to run against Chuck Schumer and his ilk and run them out of washington. More action please and a lot less sitting shiva for what you thought ‘israel’ was. It was always what it is right now. You just didn’t want to see it.

    “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” – Maya Angelou

    • yogurt
      yogurt
      August 2, 2018, 12:48 pm

      @Marnie
      I completely agree, Israel always was what it is right now. It seems opposition to Israel is gaining steam amongst these “establishment bellwethers” because opposition to extreme right-wing politics has become trendy since Trump ran for President. Unfortunately trends fade and when push comes to shove and another neo-liberal Clinton/Obama type is in office we will get a taste of the true character of these bellwethers.

      Side note, ten years ago when Rothkopf smeared people for slamming the Israel lobby I was attending the same college as his daughter. Thank God I didn’t meet her. I’m Palestinian-American.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        August 2, 2018, 2:10 pm

        Welcome to MW –

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 2, 2018, 3:14 pm

        How very odd – I click on your ‘name’ and it goes to an over 10 yr old mw article!

        oops – I checked another with the same result – somethings wrong with archives again!

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 3, 2018, 9:38 pm

        Whaaatttt!

        Don’t we have ‘profiles’ any more???

        Sumbuddy’s turned us into ‘users’!!!

        No archive…. horror!

        Please! We need it fixed – not a fix!

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      August 2, 2018, 8:18 pm

      I am glad you bring up Chuck Schumer. He came out the other day in support of the investigation into Russian meddling in the US Election process and condemning their actions yet he is fine with Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban and AIPAC meddling with the US Electoral Process ensuring Pro Israel candidates are selected for Presidential Election and AIPAC ensures they pledge loyalty to Israel. Has anyone questioned him on that? No, of course not.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 2, 2018, 9:39 pm

        Why? None of them is Russian. Adelson is close, but Polish and Saban is Egyptian.

      • hank
        hank
        August 3, 2018, 3:58 pm

        Re Sen. Schumer and his dual morality: This is the letter I sent to him in 2015 (no response, of course).

        As a co-religionist and life-long Democrat (whose first vote was for Harry Truman), I have long been concerned with your public statement that God had put you into the US Senate to defend Israel. Even while I acknowledge the political pressures you are subject to, that concern has been amplified by your support of PM Netanyahu’s egregiously offensive disrespect of your President, exemplified by your plan to attend the PM’s speech to Congress, and by the non-sequitur statement that the PM has “the right” to speak here. I believe there is serious reason to question your ability to represent this country’s interests in any matter involving Israel. The same could be said of many of your Jewish colleagues in Congress.

        I would like to make a Quixotic proposal (which you will find outrageous) to relieve both the self-contradictions in US policy regarding Israel created by lobby pressure, and what I hopefully assume is the discomfort experienced by Jewish legislators who feel compelled to support policies they privately oppose: they should voluntarily recuse themselves from involvement in any matter pertaining to Israel, on the grounds of a disqualifying conflict of interest. A judge experiencing only a fraction of such conflict would be expected to divorce himself from a case.

        The Netanyahu Affair has thrown a harsh light on this subject. Over the years, I have encountered a great deal of subterranean unease – among both Jews and Gentiles – concerning our unquestioning support of Israel (and by inference, of the deaths of thousands of Palestinians). As you know, there has been a sharp global rise in anti-Semitism in parallel to increasing hostility towards Israel. Within the last few weeks, it appears to have become more acceptable to voice such concerns openly here. Can you be morally certain that your policies will not one day be judged to have made anti-Semitism respectable in this country as well?

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        August 4, 2018, 2:35 am

        He is a supreme hypocrite. I have to wonder (again) what dirt and other sundries the zionists have on these congressional metastases.

  3. annie
    annie
    August 2, 2018, 12:30 pm

    Rothkopf making such a public statement is a positive development.

    as an aside, i am going to start noting when i learn new words from phil. today > declensions

    • JLewisDickerson
      JLewisDickerson
      August 2, 2018, 12:46 pm

      RE: “Rothkopf’s declensions are riveting because . . .”

      Definition of declension
      1 a : noun, adjective, or pronoun inflection especially in some prescribed order of the forms
      b : a class of nouns or adjectives having the same type of inflectional forms
      2 : a falling off or away : deterioration
      3 : descent, slope
      SOURCE – https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/declension

      P.S. Declension was our Word of the Day on 04/05/2016. Hear the podcast!
      AUDIO 🔊 https://rss.art19.com/episodes/10004a9a-fbf4-4663-ada8-b25def4789c4.mp3

      • msmoore
        msmoore
        August 3, 2018, 7:48 am

        Me too, Annie. Took me back to Latin I. Thanks, Jlewis, and thank you, Bummblebye, for fissiparous.

    • Bumblebye
      Bumblebye
      August 2, 2018, 3:10 pm

      Another goodun I saw today (in relation to our major political parties) was ‘fissiparous’. Would apply to what’s happening wrt support for israel too.

      • annie
        annie
        August 2, 2018, 7:49 pm

        arguments over antisemitism have created fissiparous divisions within the UK’s labour party generating declensions in compromise and dialogue. (!!!!!- ?)

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 2, 2018, 9:38 pm

        I’m sure RoHa could tell us if the words had been used proper, like!

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 3, 2018, 9:18 am

        Another precise term of art hijacked for pretentious nonsense.
        It just means “who multiplies by asexual reproduction”, like an amoeba.
        Now a couple of journalists need a sesquipedalian, hifalutin word for plain ole “splitting”, and dictionaries speed to recognize this as established usage for fissiparous.

        Where does it connect to Palestine, I dunno but surely it does.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      August 2, 2018, 9:24 pm

      I have been declining since I was thirteen. That’s when I started Latin.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 2, 2018, 9:36 pm

        Is that the only reason?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 3, 2018, 2:12 am

        What other reason could there be?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 3, 2018, 9:24 am

        RoHa,

        Biology tells us that it’s the approximate age at which we mortals all start the aging process, as strange as that sounds. So you may have identified a concomitant factor as a cause.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 4, 2018, 1:31 pm

        “Biology tells us that it’s the approximate age at which we mortals all start the aging process, as strange as that sounds.”

        True, it’s all been downhill since my Bar Mitzvah. And, come to think of it, that didn’t go so well, either.

  4. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    August 2, 2018, 12:32 pm

    RE: “Who will be next to shed the Jewish duty to support Israel?” ~ Weiss

    MY COMMENT: It will definitely NOT be Dennis Ross or Stuart Eizenstat!

    “We’re Staunch Zionists. And We Are Worried About Israel’s Democracy.”
    Dennis Ross and Stuart Eizenstat | forward.com | July 31, 2018
    LINK – https://forward.com/opinion/406997/we-re-staunch-zionists-and-we-are-worried-about-israel-s-democracy/

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 2, 2018, 2:58 pm

      JLD,

      If I half know my biology, those two are rats, too. They’ll jump ship when they feel it is sinking. Rothkopf just used the pretext that he only now sees something that has been gouging his eye for 50 years or so. The ones you mention don’t have a “liberal” cred to maintain and will jump ship when the US war machine starts getting wounded.

      That article is just the explicit Neocon program to recruit all Zionists to the alphabet-soup spy agency takeover to eliminate Trump. They say it black on white: they’ll make a concession by rejecting the official Apartheid state, in exchange for all-Jewish support of eternal “negotiation” in view of 2-state-non-solution, i.e. the profitable status quo.

    • druid
      druid
      August 3, 2018, 12:11 pm

      A democracy that never was!!!!

  5. Bumblebye
    Bumblebye
    August 2, 2018, 3:17 pm

    How very odd – I click on your ‘name’ and it goes to an over 10 yr old mw article!

    • annie
      annie
      August 2, 2018, 3:28 pm

      wow that is strange! i clicked on your name and it does it also!

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 2, 2018, 4:04 pm

        OK, who broke it this time – somebody own up!

      • annie
        annie
        August 2, 2018, 7:39 pm

        ha! dave is looking into it.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 2, 2018, 9:30 pm

        Not me.
        Honest, guv.
        Never touched it.
        It was like that when I got here.

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        August 2, 2018, 10:58 pm

        I think somebòdy’s put some counterfeit coins in the collection box again – this does seem to happen in donation season!

      • annie
        annie
        August 3, 2018, 12:55 am

        i can assure you that is not the case! took us all by surprise.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 3, 2018, 8:15 pm

        What the devil has happened?

        Lots of names have disappeared. Mooser has acquired “Derbig”. Some imposter named “Henry Nassey” is pretending to be echinococcus. And I can’t access my archive.

        Is this an attack by Mossad? (Flattering, if so.)

        Clearly some major unbuggering is needed. Soon as poss, please.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 4, 2018, 1:37 pm

        “Mooser has acquired “Derbig”

        That is my first name. As Bertie said: “There’s some raw work pulled at the baptismal font from time to time.”

      • annie
        annie
        August 4, 2018, 7:18 pm

        now we know Dera(very)big Moose.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 4, 2018, 8:10 pm

        “now we know Dera(very)big Moose.”

        Oh, you know, parental expectations, reflected in a child’s name. I don’t take it seriously.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 4, 2018, 11:20 pm

        “some raw work pulled at the baptismal font ”

        You poor dear. You have a cross to bear.

  6. Nathan
    Nathan
    August 2, 2018, 3:34 pm

    …a series of horrific errors, including slavery and the genocide against Native Americans and the devaluing of the role of women, were ultimately remedied.”

    I wonder how the genocide against Native Americans was remedied. Sometimes it is just obvious that the editorial staff of Mondoweiss doesn’t really read carefully the articles submitted for publication. It seems that it’s just enough that the article is anti-Israel. Anyway, it might be of interest to point out that an “oops, we’re sorry” is not a remedy for murder and greed. The USA remains a political entity founded on a stolen continent, and it decimated the native population in the process – and there has been no attempt to remedy anything.

    • annie
      annie
      August 2, 2018, 3:40 pm

      Sometimes it is just obvious that the editorial staff of Mondoweiss doesn’t really read carefully the articles submitted for publication

      this wasn’t submitted, it was written by phil. he was quoting Rothkopf in that passage in “an exchange with his college roommate Michael Oren”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 3, 2018, 2:49 pm

        “Sometimes it is just obvious that the editorial staff of Mondoweiss doesn’t really read carefully the articles submitted for publication”

        “Nathan”, I am sure they read them just as carefully as you do.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 2, 2018, 4:09 pm

      “Nathan”, the usual Ziobrain who shoots himself in the foot and asks to be exposed for it.

      I wonder how the genocide against Native Americans was remedied

      Of course it wasn’t “remedied”, as the invaders (i.e. us) managed to complete the genocide of the owners of the country before these could shoot back.

      What Rothkopf calls remedy is giving “equal” citizenship rights to token survivors (and continuing to screw them even then, this time as so-called citizens.

      Which is exactly what your accomplices in crime are trying to do. That is obviously your model, and your genocide of the Palestinians is proceeding according to the same pattern, at a comparable pace. Including even the infected blankets, I’d say

      Rothkopf was only using “liberal” terminology, not anything people even pay attention to anymore in the US. “Remedied” my eye and foot. But then, most of the silly euphemisms people use don’t correspond to their literal equivalents, nothing to get a blush in the head.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      August 3, 2018, 4:15 am

      Nathan: “The USA remains a political entity founded on a stolen continent, and it decimated the native population in the process – and there has been no attempt to remedy anything.”

      Israel remains a political entity founded on a stolen contry, and it decimated the native population by massacres, expulsions and revocation of resident status in the process – and there has been no attempt to remedy anything. To the contrary. The property of those who were expelled was embezzled by Israel’s custodian. And all of that happened in the post Nazi era.

      • Misterioso
        Misterioso
        August 3, 2018, 11:29 am

        Look on the bright side: With advocates like Nathan, Israel needs no critics. He and his fellow hasbarats are drowning in their bull****.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 4, 2018, 1:05 pm

        “The USA remains a political entity founded on a stolen continent, and it decimated the native population in the process – and there has been no attempt to remedy anything.” “Good old Nathan”

        I’ll tell you what, “Nathan”, it’s very simple. If the Zionists had opened for exploitation (by almost anybody from all over the world.) a huge slab of temperate continent, filled to bursting with natural resources, and done it about three hundred years ago, why, they could more than likely have rolled right over the resident Palestinians.

  7. Mooser
    Mooser
    August 2, 2018, 6:25 pm

    The feeling of non-Israeli Jews that they are partners in the Zionist project is based on an assumption by non-Israeli Jews that their self-identification as Jews makes them partners. Israel has just destroyed that.

    And for reasons of both security and purity, the process of determination must be adversarial; you have to prove you are Jewish. (Or all kinds of clandestine agents and blood-line degraders will get through.)

    Questioning a Jewish person’s self-identification as a Jew is not a good thing to do, if you want their good-will. Not even anti-Semites do that.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 2, 2018, 9:46 pm

      Why, in places that have a Grand Rabbi you can buy a certificate of Jewishness for some $2-3,000. I know because my cousin’s son just bought one. Not suggesting any impropriety, he’s biologically Jewish. There might be a question of extortion, though.

      Is there a Grand Rabbi in the States, or are all Rabbis Small?

      • chocopie
        chocopie
        August 2, 2018, 11:08 pm

        Certified biologically Jewish! Time for Mooser to link to a favorite genetic diseases website ;^)

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 3, 2018, 12:11 am

        This is new to me. I thought rabbis were all pretty much the same. Do they come in different grades?
        E.g. Grand, Good, Mediocre, Frankly Pathetic.
        Or sizes?
        Small, Medium, Large, Giant Economy Size?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 3, 2018, 2:05 am

        I’m the last one to pretend to know about these things, having managed to skip Saturday school once and for all and gone to Jesuite school for too many years. I only know of five categories for sure: Grand Rabin (self-explanatory), Gran Chaham / Haham-bashi (they in the mysterious Orient use it as interchangeable with Rabbi but the Ashkenaze differ on this), Common-or-Garden Rabbi-or-Haham , according to the citizenship, Rabbi Small the Sleuth, and –are you sitting?– Alt-Rabbi.

        I kid you not: the “Alt-Right” have their separate theologian:
        http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=110676

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 3, 2018, 2:15 am

        Chocopie,

        I’m sure Mooser understood that Ashkenazi diseases (see Tay-Sachs) get added to the different Arab area diseases and to the Mediterranean Fever of the Spanish… in the Zionist entity. Those who stay where they belong, especially if they commit the atrocity of mixing with [the unspeakable Strangers] have a better chance of escaping. That’s what he wanted to express –at least, I hope so.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 3, 2018, 2:37 pm

        “Do they come in different grades?”

        After you graduate cheddar (if you’re sharp enough) you become a Saucier’s Apprentice, and then, finally, a Chef Rabbi.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 3, 2018, 2:47 pm

        “There might be a question of extortion, though.”

        You bet. I thought they ran around $20-30 K! Wonder what he had on the Rabbi.

  8. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    August 3, 2018, 5:15 am

    Rothkopf feels a duty to oppose Israel and I do not disrespect the calling that he hears. Apparently he is high up in the world of foreign policy and has a history of significant support for Israel (as in “of significance”). Therefore in fact his leeway is not great and he is forced by his pulpit to speak his heart (or wherever duty lodges its claims).

    Those of us who based upon the knowledge of history and culture viewed the earlier essence of zionism to fulfill basic human needs of Jews as a group might not feel the same duty.

    On the other hand: The trajectory of consciousness expressed by the politics of ruling Israeli leadership is not encouraging and indeed most discouraging. Hope is a bumper sticker that has been covered by “make america great again”, so hope is not of this moment.

    The claim that Palestinians have against those who did them harm is noteworthy and the failure of Israel to come to terms with this harm is foremost symptom of insufficient reconciliation. The Israeli habit has been stubbornness (singularity of focus) and the request for contemplation of the harm done to the others is almost precisely the opposite of this stubbornness. This stubbornness seems to be heading into oblivion led by Netanyahu pushed on by the parliamentary demands of the moment.

    (I focus on the demotion of status of Arabic as the most egregious aspect of the nation state bill. It shows malice and “stubbornness” of the worst kind.)

    And thus a foreign policy expert has a duty to consider the trajectory as presented and the lack of evidence of the improvement of that trajectory and to say, “I oppose this.”

    Someday soon a democrat will be elected to the white house and he will clash with israeli leadership in a way that will make obama versus bibi look like child’s play. meanwhile in the 23 years since Rabin was murdered the trajectory of Israel has been quite negative and this is most dispiriting.

    Zionism is an essential element of the history of the Jews of the last 138 years. To dismiss it would require a theory of history and a theory of Jewishness and a proposal for a Jewish future that encompasses both the history and the necessity to change that history into a new direction. Merely opposing Israel is insufficient and needs to be accompanied by some semblances of ideas of where we go from here.

    An essential part of traditional Judaism has been concern for other Jews around the world and thus opposing Israel while maintaining concern for the Jews in Israel would be a required element in the map to the future. (Of course concern for Palestinians rather than with Jews is what drives us in the direction of opposition to begin with, but after that direction has been chosen there is a need to propose a future that includes terms of concern as well as opposition. This may be an unfair demand.)

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 3, 2018, 3:08 pm

      “Those of us who based upon the knowledge of history and culture viewed the earlier essence of zionism to fulfill basic human needs of Jews as a group might not feel the same duty.”

      Don’t worry, “Yonah”, you won’t be missed. Besides, you are so consistently wrong, and so embedded in fantasy, you are a liability to Zionism. So you stick with it.

  9. FightTribalism
    FightTribalism
    August 3, 2018, 8:30 am

    To all the Americans here, let me remind you of our basic values by quoting our declaration of independence:

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. “

  10. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    August 4, 2018, 11:29 am

    It’s going to be very difficult to use Comments until we get our names back – Martin Hughes

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 4, 2018, 12:15 pm

      Looks to me like a new archive format has been introduced.

      I’m not in any way criticising, I AGREE WITH THE STORAGE AND HANDLING OF MY DATA BY THIS WEBSITE!

      • gamal
        gamal
        August 4, 2018, 12:47 pm

        not for everyone, but we are patient in adversity.

        oh i see i jumped to conclusions, yes adversity was annoyingly short lived, i was just getting ready to bear up.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 4, 2018, 1:18 pm

        “gamal”, I don’t know about you, but I’m keeping my loins girded. There’s all kinds format changes.

        And now there’s a little circle at the bottom of the page, indicating the number of bats in my belfry or something.

        I wonder if the ‘underscore glitch’ in the Archive system will be remedied?

      • davemreed
        davemreed
        August 4, 2018, 5:18 pm

        @Mooser – I have tried to identify or replicate this error you sent in, but I can’t find it. Can you point me to someone you know it’s occurred to?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 4, 2018, 4:09 pm

        And the small matter of having a reply button beneath each message, been a longish time. I don’t really mind but an explanation why that’s bad would be welcome

      • davemreed
        davemreed
        August 4, 2018, 5:17 pm

        @echinococcus – It’s got to do right now with the limit on the threaded comments. The first & second replies have a reply link, but after that they all get stacked up as third level replies. As you can tell by the indentation on the replies, adding more would eventually make them too narrow and unreadable.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 4, 2018, 7:36 pm

        ” Can you point me to someone you know it’s occurred to?”

        Of course I can’t, they have no archive! (This is getting Kafkaesque.)

        Best I can do is go back and find an article which has a comment by somebody with an underscore in their user-name and click their name.
        And Presto, no arc…Say what?
        Looks like “hai_bar”(and anybody else who has an underscore in their username) IS being archived. Before the latest changes, usernames with an underscore produced no archive when clicked.

        Thank you. Seems to be fixed with the change to the new archive set up! Now I can agree fully with the storage and handling of my data by this website.

      • davemreed
        davemreed
        August 4, 2018, 7:42 pm

        Glad it’s fixed.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 4, 2018, 8:32 pm

        I see now. So it’s a matter of autoreferencing answers instead of indenting. OK, looks like you have more work ahead anyway (so this should be at the bottom of any wish list. Your responsivity and hard work are much appreciated.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        August 5, 2018, 5:39 pm

        My sentiments too, echino

    • davemreed
      davemreed
      August 4, 2018, 1:14 pm

      The usernames are displaying again! Here’s a short post about some of the changes we’ve put in place: https://mondoweiss.net/2018/08/updating-encryption-technical/

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