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Elizabeth Warren warns of ‘demographic realities, births… bearing down on Israel’ — racist code for Palestinian babies

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Former Obama aide Tommy Vietor interviewed Senator Elizabeth Warren yesterday and asked a few questions about Israel. The fascination here is that someone who is so outspoken and eloquent on economic inequality, health care, Wall Street, government corruption and the horrors of Vietnam and Iraq turns into a conservative when it comes to a Jewish state administering Jim Crow over millions of second-class citizens. Warren doesn’t mention the occupation, or Palestinian conditions, repeatedly calls Israel a “liberal democracy,” says the U.S. should be “pushing” for a two-state solution but no no real pressure, i.e. sanctions. “We should not be putting chips on the table or taking them off.”

Worst of all, Warren parrots the “demographics” talk that would be the death penalty for a liberal politician in the United States. Imagine if a politician talked about how many black people or brown people are being born in her district or in the country as a threat to the country’s character?

[O]ver time realities are bearing down on Israel, demographic realities, births and deaths. What the region looks like.

When is this type of speech going to become off limits in the United States? This is the great thing about Reps. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib. They are Muslim women of color and they regard such talk as racist, as it is. Also, they are for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS).

Here’s a portion of the transcript:

Tommy Vietor [former Obama spokesperson]: The first bill that the Senate put forward was a bill called S1 which did a whole bunch of stuff. It was military support to Israel. I think it was some policy towards Jordan, some additional sanctions in Syria, but then there was a really controversial provision that would allow state and municipal governments to punish companies that boycott, divest from, or place sanctions on Israel so so-called BDS Movement. Why did you oppose S1?

Elizabeth Warren: I opposed the boycott but I oppose a law that permits punishment of people who want to support the boycott. This is one where I stand with the ACLU…

I think the way we can be a good ally to Israel is we can push again toward a two state solution toward a long term solution in this area and look I get it. Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world. It’s a liberal democracy. We don’t have a lot of allies over there that follow the liberal democratic traditions but a good ally urges friends to get together and work out a solution. And the Palestinians and the Israelis need to be back at the negotiating table. The United States should not be dictating terms. We should not be putting chips on the table or taking them off. But we should be pushing them to negotiate a two state solution….

I think we have to stop to acknowledge what has changed during the Trump administration. The pressure toward a two state solution obviously has gone away and in fact the whole publicly naming Jerusalem as the capital and moving our embassy. Took one of the things that should have been decided by the parties. It’s not our decision, it’s their decision and how they wanted to handle that. It made it very clear we’re standing on one side in these negotiations. And the problem with that is it. It doesn’t encourage negotiation…

[T]he way I see what you’re talking about is we have pushed it this far under the Obama administration and now Trump has completely reversed it. I don’t therefore draw the conclusion that what happened under the Obama administration was never going to work that you couldn’t keep pushing harder because over time realities are bearing down on Israel, demographic realities, births and deaths. What the region looks like and I think that that this is a moment not while Trump is in there playing the game that he’s playing but that the opportunity soon to get Israel back to the table and get the Palestinians back to the table. If we the United States can be an honest broker and can encourage again other nations other allies to help support that. I’m – I’m, I actually had just a little spark of-.

Tommy Vietor: Glimmer of hope

Elizabeth Warren: Optimism. Let’s call it a glimmer. Can we start with glimmer?

Tommy Vietor: When I look at Israel I look at Bibi Netanyahu putting up campaign signs that featuring take photos of him and President Trump. This weekend he released a TV ad attacking his opponent Benny Gantz and accusing him of colluding with Obama behind his back and it had this grainy darkened image of Obama. I’m just wondering, Does it worry you that such a close ally has fully aligned with one political party? The Republican Party.

Elizabeth Warren: Yes. No. This is the part that’s why I was talking about the difference between the two administrations. Yes. And I honestly– I, I don’t think it’s good for Israel. I mean I think it’s terrible for Israel and that that’s the direction he’s going…. [Though] Trump is not forever and neither is Netanyahu.

Sadly Warren is about as good as it gets on the Democratic left. She’s J Street. That last bit is the J Street line: The U.S. and Israel are in the same pickle, threatened by tyrants. We just have to get rid of Trump and Netanyahu to restore our great democracies.

You should also have noticed the repeated references to what’s good for Israel. “Honestly I don’t think this [Netanyahu] is good for Israel. I think this is terrible for Israel. ” As As’ad AbuKhalil observes: “Look how careful and even nervous she is in talking about Israel. She kept prefacing her halting remarks by ‘it isn’t good for Israel’. Who cares about those occupied by Israel.” Answer: Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, and Bernie Sanders.

Also: “Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world. It’s a liberal democracy. We don’t have a lot of allies over there that follow the liberal democratic traditions” is Warren boilerplate, and rusty boilerplate. She used virtually the same words five years ago during the last big Gaza massacre. “Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world, and a part of the world where there aren’t many liberal democracies and democracies that are controlled by the rule of law. And we very much need an ally in that part of the world.”

Then, the claim about the peace process being a “glimmer” of hope! As if the U.S. were an “honest broker” under Obama and previous administrations. Who is kidding who? The peace process has been going on for 30 years and all it’s produced is more dispossession of Palestinian land. Jimmy Carter tried to stop settlements and paid a huge political price for doing so. Obama started and then stopped and then did a gentleman’s burp at the end. Warren endorses the Obama approach but is very careful not to blast settlements. Vietor four times mentioned settlements. Warren never said that word.

And yes, this is all about the donors. Zionist Jews are simply too important a donor bloc – “gigantic” to quote JJ Goldberg of the Forward; 60 percent of Democratic donors (and providing 75 percent of what Humphrey raised in ’68 and, sit down, 60 percent of Nixon’s campaign finances in ’72) per the late guru Ham Jordan— for Elizabeth Warren to answer these questions honestly. Just as she sidestepped the Gaza massacre five years ago, had to run to her car when someone asked her.

P.S. This demographic crap is not hard. Michelle Goldberg says, “It is very hard to explain to an American liberal, particularly someone who is on the left and young that basically the Palestinians should be denied their right to self-determination in perpetuity because otherwise it would threaten the demographic interest of the Jewish people. I don’t think leftists would accept that argument about any other people. I actually don’t think liberals would make that argument about any other people.” And nine years ago Ali Abunimah gave a famous speech, Israel’s problem is Palestinian babies. (Again and again, Abunimah has led this discourse.)

 

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is senior editor of Mondoweiss.net and founded the site in 2005-06.

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103 Responses

  1. just on February 22, 2019, 11:54 am

    She’s not even PEP. Just another Israel firster~ Israel now, Israel forever.

    “Warren doesn’t mention the occupation, or Palestinian conditions, repeatedly calls Israel a “liberal democracy,” says the U.S. should be “pushing” for a two-state solution but no no real pressure, i.e. sanctions. “We should not be putting chips on the table or taking them off.””

    SOS. Any ‘code’ is clearly decipherable, too. It isn’t code anymore. Nothing said about the IOF snipers aiming and shooting to kill innocents all day long… my guess is that it is justified for Warren just as long as it improves the “demographics” in favor of Israel! For a supposedly intelligent woman, she is deliberately blind, deaf and dumb to apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and violent colonization .

    Thanks, Phil.

    • Misterioso on February 23, 2019, 9:14 am

      Meanwhile:

      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-palestinians-lawsuit-idUSKCN1Q826S
      “Palestinians’ lawsuit in U.S. vs. Adelson, others is revived.”
      By Jonathan Stempel, Reuters, Feb. 19/2019

      “A U.S. appeals court has revived a $1 billion lawsuit by Palestinians seeking to hold billionaire Sheldon Adelson and more than 30 other pro-Israel defendants liable for alleged war crimes and support of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

      “In a 3-0 decision on Tuesday, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit said a federal district judge wrongly concluded in August 2017 that all of the plaintiffs’ claims raised political questions that could not be decided in American courts.

      “The plaintiffs, including 18 Palestinians and Palestinian-Americans as well as a Palestinian village council, alleged a conspiracy among many defendants to expel non-Jews from the disputed territories, and accused the defendants of committing or aiding in genocide and other war crimes.

      “Other defendants included the billionaire Larry Ellison, Bank Leumi BM and Bank Hapoalim BM, construction and support companies such as Hewlett Packard Enterprise Co and Volvo AB, 13 non profits, and the United States.

      “The lawyer for the plaintiffs did not immediately respond to requests for comment. A lawyer for the individual, non profit and corporate defendants, as well as the U.S. Department of Justice, did not immediately respond to similar requests.

      “In dismissing the case, U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan in Washington had said it was ‘inappropriate’ for her to resolve the issue of the settlements, because it was ‘close to the heart of the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict and central to the United States’ foreign policy decision-making in the region.’

      “But in Tuesday’s decision, without ruling on the merits, Circuit Judge Karen LeCraft Henderson said the only political question concerned who had sovereignty over the Israeli-occupied territories.

      “She said courts could rule on whether the defendants conspired to expel non-Jews or committed war crimes ‘without touching the sovereignty question, if it concluded that Israeli settlers are committing genocide.’

      “Henderson said that presented a ‘purely legal issue’ because genocide violated the law of nations, and could support the plaintiffs’ claim under the federal Alien Tort Statute.

      “Adelson is the chief executive of casino company Las Vegas Sands Corp. Ellison is the chairman of Oracle Corp, the database software company he co-founded.

      “The case is Al-Tamimi et al v Adelson et al, D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, No. 17-5207.”
      Reporting by Jonathan Stempel in New York; Editing by Tom Brown

      • Boomer on February 23, 2019, 1:05 pm

        Interesting. I’m surprised such a suit could get this far. Of course, the defendants could pay a billion, if ordered to do so.

      • just on February 23, 2019, 4:55 pm

        Thanks for the information, Misterioso! I pray that it shall come to pass that some justice will come at last. Just think of those that will be punished beyond the odious Adelsons~ the Kushners, Friedman, Saban, etc. ad nauseam. Think of all the dual citizens in the US Congress… and the sons and daughters of the elite who elect/rush to serve in the IOF.

      • YoniFalic on February 23, 2019, 5:25 pm

        If the DC on remand and after trial enters an order for the Plaintiffs, there is no way that such a decision cannot have direct implication in the enforcement of 18 U.S. Code § 1091 — Genocide.

        I discuss in a comment on The Israel lobby is built on the biggest guilt trip in the world.

        With issuance of said order, one could then reasonably argue that any attempt to hinder or to prohibit BDS is a criminal conspiracy to aid genocide.

      • JWalters on February 23, 2019, 7:29 pm

        This lawsuit is great news! At the very least it will bring a lot of public attention onto the facts of the case. Once Israel’s cover story is blown, it’s toast in the American mind. And that includes the duped Jewish Americans as well (already happening with younger Jews).

        It seems to me the defendants can’t argue the facts, so they’ll have to argue that they had some “right” that “entitled” them to these facts. Shades of the Scopes trial.

        This lawsuit implies a similar lawsuit in Britain. Certain to be involved is the Rothschild bank. The so-called “Balfour Declaration” was an engineered letter from Arthur Balfour to Baron Lionel Walter Rothschild. On the centennial of the letter, Nathan Rothschild spoke publicly about his family financing the operation, essentially making a full confession.

    • Maghlawatan on February 23, 2019, 10:37 am

      It’s not forever. Warren is pointing things out

      This is really interesting. It’s in German right at the start

      https://youtu.be/OIfEpRqVKYk

      « I wouldn’t say Hitler was tragic. Thomas Mann warned about the concept allowing all sorts of nonsense and malevolence in the groupthink.
      Hitler made sure he got what he wanted unscrupulously and it all fell apart. That was not tragic. A tragedy is when 2 conflicting forces interact in a person. When there is the urge but also resistance . There was no resistance in Hitler’s mind»

      Israel won’t be a tragedy either
      The stupid motherfuckers will not listen to anyone
      Not Deuteronomy

      “Zedek, zedek, tirdof”, (“Justice, justice shall you pursue”)

      Not the Torah which teaches that every human being is made b’tzelem Elohim, in the image of God.

  2. Citizen on February 22, 2019, 12:13 pm

    Yes. that’s her to a T. SO I don’t see any other Dem candidate with a different approach on Israel, does anyone? Maybe Bernie? He’s against BDS, but not against free speech regarding Israel. BDS is a nonviolent protest movement in behalf supporting basic rights for Palestinians. If a Palestinian child throws a rock at a heavily armed and armored occupation trooper, he may be shot dead. Somebody needs to ask Bernie, for the record, what does he suggest supporters of Palestinian rights do to enhance that agenda?

  3. Maximus Decimus Meridius on February 22, 2019, 12:53 pm

    “Who cares about those occupied by Israel.” Answer: Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar, and Bernie Sanders.”

    Shame Sanders does not care enough to come out in favour of BDS, however.

  4. Bumblebye on February 22, 2019, 1:17 pm

    Frankly she’s just regurgitating what in the US are the Republican fears and arguments for all their attempts to restrict access to voting – by brown, black, poor and young Americans. The ‘demographic’ threat is a shared ‘value’ of the right!

    • Mooser on February 23, 2019, 11:44 am

      “The ‘demographic’ threat is a shared ‘value’ of the right!”

      Bulls-eye! Yes, the ‘united’ right is very concerned about Jews replacing them.

  5. eljay on February 22, 2019, 2:34 pm

    Warren – like all Zionists – is a hateful and immoral hypocrite who may believe in justice, equality and respect for human rights and international laws elsewhere in the world, but when it comes to I-P all that matters is Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine.

  6. peterfeld on February 22, 2019, 6:03 pm

    Warren is abysmal and we need to unite to defeat her. Sanders has many shortcomings on foreign policy, which I called out 3 years ago on this site, but he has improved considerably since then and most importantly, he has Matt Duss. Of course I wish he backed BDS, but he will rearrange our relationship with Israel and no other candidate will.

  7. ckg on February 22, 2019, 10:22 pm

    She may as well have said that culture and demographics are Israel’s destiny.

  8. JWalters on February 22, 2019, 10:37 pm

    ““Look how careful and even nervous she is in talking about Israel.”

    It’s a hostage interview. Some would say she is being held hostage by terrorists.

    “And yes, this is all about the donors. Zionist Jews are simply too important a donor bloc”

    Progressives can look at Warren’s position in a few ways. Most immediately she could use her visibility as a presidential candidate to inform Americans about a fundamental truth that has been hidden from the public. After all, both the NYT and WaPo have run op-eds discussing the hiding of the truth about the Palestinians. MSNBC had a debate between two Jewish writers on whether Ilhan Omar’s tweet was in truth anti-Semitic. The debate is already on the table, so now is the time to take a leadership role.

    On the other hand, Warren may have been planning to approach the problem through the banking system. That is her area of expertise. Should she change strategies? Maybe Bernie would be better to be that leader, and he’s hinted at it. And if she were to start telling the truth about Israel her Comcast money would dry up, as well as TV appearances. (Reporters would all mention that she’s not a serious candidate.) Then she wouldn’t get to her banking agenda either.

    Aside from her planning, is someone nervous about the Israelis strong enough inwardly to be president?

  9. Citizen on February 23, 2019, 3:11 am

    I like Tulsi Gabbard for her foreign policy stance against regime change. She resigned as Vice chair of DNC in protest against how DNC leadership treated Bernie. She distrusted the MSM take on Syria and went over there herself, and she talked with Assad. I’m not sure if she has directly addressed the I-P issue yet, but she’s being attacked by both Dems and GOP and Israel Lobby kin are attacking her on Twitter, smearing her as a monster.

    • JWalters on February 23, 2019, 8:56 pm

      More good credentials.

    • ckg on February 23, 2019, 10:52 pm

      Citizen, I think Gabbard needs to explain to antiwar Dems her speaking appearance at the 2015 CUFI Summit alongside Netanyahu, Ted Cruz, Huckabee, and Santorum. Supporting a conference of hawkish Christian Zionists so soon after the 2014 Gaza massacre is inexplicable for a candidate claiming to be antiwar.

      • Citizen on February 24, 2019, 10:26 am

        I agree. Note this tweet from Gabbard subsequently:

        Israel needs to stop using live ammunition in its response to unarmed protesters in Gaza. It has resulted in over 50 dead and thousands seriously wounded.

        3,693
        5:25 PM – May 14, 2018
        Twitter Ads info and privacy

    • ckg on February 24, 2019, 7:02 pm

      Citizen, I hope Gabbard has come around. Max Blumenthal, who literally wrote the book on the 2014 Gaza war, supports her (although that may have more to do with Syria). It’s puzzling, however. When Max was in Gaza reporting the 2014 war/massacre, Tulsi was cosponsoring resolutions ( H.Con.Res.107 and H.Res.657 — 113th Congress) supporting Israel’s war crimes in Gaza. What a world.

  10. Marnie on February 23, 2019, 5:11 am

    Warren is just like the others, bought and paid for by AIPAC, et al. Maybe she’s more nervous about it because she knows it’s wrong? I look at the democrats running in 2020 and see not much between them and republicans. “Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world. It’s a liberal democracy. We don’t have a lot of allies over there that follow the liberal democratic traditions”. That’s straight out of netanyahoo’s mouth. This part ofthe world is dangerous mostly because of the state of israel. There is no democracy here and never has been.

    What a disappointment Warren is, but she’s in a large pool of disappointing politicians.

    • Misterioso on February 23, 2019, 11:19 am

      @Marnie, et al

      Elizabeth Warren is doing America and its Jewish citizens no favors by kowtowing to “Israel,” e.g., referring to it as a “liberal democracy” when any reasonably well informed person (whose numbers, including Jews, are rapidly growing) knows full well that it is the antithesis of a “democracy.” Indeed, “Israel” is and always has been an ethnocracy, i.e., ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­a political structure in which the state apparatus is appropriated by a dominant ethnic group, to further its interests, power and resources. In short, apartheid. (In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, published in 2016, the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.” – U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor.)

      Ms. Warren also declares that “Israel lives in a very dangerous part of the world.” Duh, what does she expect given the bloody history of its founding by Zionist Jews of foreign origin and subsequent territorial expansion by means of armed might, several massacres, mass rape and intimidation that led to the expulsion of about 1,250,000 indigenous Palestinian Christians and Muslims, looting of their assets, including homes, jewellery, bank accounts, safety deposit boxes, etc. – $billions, according to Israeli historian, Tom Segev, and subsequently calculated by experts to be $200 billion in the year 2000 U.S. dollars – between late 1947 and the summer of 1967 as well as the destruction of about 500 of their towns and villages, including mosques, churches and cemeteries?

      Well reported documented horrors committed against defenseless indigenous Palestinian Arabs by Zionist Jews continue unabated and increase every day while Elizabeth Warren and her ilk, seeking election financing from American Zionist organizations, look the other way and spew forth lies.

      • JWalters on February 23, 2019, 8:58 pm

        And there’s that.

      • Citizen on February 24, 2019, 3:28 am

        Precisely.

  11. Marnie on February 23, 2019, 5:19 am

    “we can’t restore our civilization with somebody else’s babies,” Rep. Steve King of Iowa.

    He’s still in Washington.

    So it looks like it is going to take a politician shooting someone in the middle of 5th Avenue in broad daylight with a cop on the corner to maybe show politiicans there are consequences but I doubt it. Amerikkka is as corrupt as israel is with a lunatic in charge.

  12. Boomer on February 23, 2019, 6:01 am

    Perceptive and well-written, as usual. Thanks for writing it, but it’s so depressing, I wonder how you manage to do so, week after week. The double standard is amazing. Nancy Pelosi says it’s immoral to build a wall to stop immigrants to the U.S., but fully supports a wall in Palestine to keep evicted people out. And what the hell does Warren mean by, “We should not be putting chips on the table or taking them off.” I’m pretty sure she doesn’t mean the U.S. should end it’s unflagging diplomatic, financial, and military support for Israel, regardless of what it does.

    There is one positive aspect, however, as you say:

    “This is the great thing about Reps. Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib. They are Muslim women of color and they regard such talk as racist, as it is. Also, they are for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS).”

    I hope they don’t get shouted down, but the odds are against them.

  13. pookieross on February 23, 2019, 8:20 am

    So typical of these so-called liberal Dems. They espouse everything positive then slam BDS/Palestinians. So proud of Michele Alexander’s piece in NY Times.

    • Citizen on February 24, 2019, 3:35 am

      @ Boomer: Won’t be so easy, given how Omar tore up Abrams on CSPAN TV. Further, candidate Tulsi Gabbard is running on the macro priority war and peace. And she’s very aware also; and like Omar, radiates composed smarts and sincerity. Who knows, maybe they will actually get some prime time tv coverage? You can help here by sending Gabbard a tiny donation towards her making the voter numbers needed to qualify to be on the DNC’s two day candidate panels. I did.

      • Boomer on February 24, 2019, 11:54 am

        thanks for the suggestion

  14. RayJosephCormier on February 23, 2019, 8:43 am

    The bottom line and Fundamental Reality is, a real Democracy cannot have Democracy and Civil Rights for Jews, and a Military Dictatorship and Military Courts having no Civil Rights for Palestinians at the same Time.

    That’s the same as Christ Alpha saying ,’You cannot serve two Masters. Either you will love one and hate the other, or you will serve one and neglect the other. You cannot serve God and money’

    He did walk through Occupied Palestine of Judea and Samaria 2000 years ago. Israel as a kingdom disappeared from this World some 800 years earlier.

    Temporal Israel was re-created from the Bible after an absence of some 2800 years.
    After all those years, the Occupation of Judea and Samaria in Palestine is still an unresolved, violent, open wound in the Middle East and this world.

    Could the Invisible Spirit of God be sending this Material World a message recognizing that Historical Reality and Current Reality?

    • RoHa on February 23, 2019, 8:57 pm

      No.

      • RayJosephCormier on February 23, 2019, 10:16 pm

        Yes.

      • Citizen on February 24, 2019, 3:44 am

        The Invisible Spirit of God is like Capitalism’s Invisible Hand. It’s made up of little hands same as a swarm of army ants or bees.

      • Boomer on February 24, 2019, 11:55 am

        re “invisible spirit of God”

        Interesting concept

      • Mooser on February 24, 2019, 12:06 pm

        The Invisible Spirit of God is like Capitalism’s Invisible Hand.

        No wonder I got crucified in the stock market.

      • Mooser on February 24, 2019, 4:43 pm

        ” Interesting concept”

        It’s new to me. I always just sorta thought God was indissoluble.

      • gamal on February 24, 2019, 5:08 pm

        “I always just sorta thought God was indissoluble”

        And doesn’t he (He) bloody well know it.

        “Love wants to reach out and manhandle us,
        break all our teacup talk of God.

        If you had the courage and
        could give the Beloved His choice, some nights,
        he would just drag you around the room
        by your hair,
        ripping from your grip all those toys in the world
        that bring you no joy.

        Love sometimes gets tired of speaking sweetly
        and wants to rip to shreds
        all your erroneous notions of truth

        that make you fight within yourself, dear one,
        and with others,

        causing the world to weep
        on too many fine days.

        God wants to manhandle us,
        lock us inside of a tiny room with Himself
        and practice His dropkick.

        The Beloved sometimes wants
        to do us a great favor:

        hold us upside down
        and shake all the nonsense out”

        that’s what he did to a Persian, everyone’s down on the Persians. (Hafez, obvs)

      • RoHa on February 24, 2019, 7:03 pm

        And all those little hands are attached to human beings, each of whom thinks s/he is acting of his/her own free will.

        If their belief is true, then God has nothing to do with it.

        If their belief is false, and God is directing their actions, then they cannot be blamed when they do the wrong thing.

    • RayJosephCormier on February 24, 2019, 1:49 pm

      The 1st Jewish king came about because the People complained it’s just too hard to believe in an “Invisible” God, so give us a human substitute to rule over us and judge us, as it’s described in 1 Samuel 8.
      And all the elders of Israel gathered, and came to Samuel, to Ramah.
      And they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now, set up for us a king to judge us like all the nations.”
      And the thing was displeasing in the eyes of Samuel, when they said, “Give us a king to judge us,” and Samuel prayed to the Lord.
      And the Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people, according to all that they will say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from reigning over them.[…]And now, listen to their voice; except that you shall warn them, and tell them the manner of the king who will reign over them.

      It has turned out to be just like that to this very Day, the way the Powers in this Material World operate.

      It’s slightly different with the Resurrected Christ of the New Testament.
      He appeared to a woman first before his male Disciples, totally at odds with the prevailing Culture and Traditions of those Times.
      She told the men who did not believe her.
      Then Jesus appears to Peter, James and John, and they tell the others, who do not believe them.
      Jesus appears to them all except Tomas. When they tell Thomas, he does not believe them.
      Then Jesus appears to Thomas and says, ‘Tomas. You have seen, and now you Believe. From now on, Blessed are they who have not seen, yet Believe.

      The Ways and Means of the Invisible God, becomes increasingly visible to those who practice and grow in The Faith, doing it God’s Way not necessarily their Way,

      These are the most important lines of all the lines in the Bible to me even if others don’t get it, “These things say the Amen, the Faithful and True witness, the Beginning of the Creation of God;
      I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot: I would you were cold or hot.
      So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue you out of my mouth.
      Because you say, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and don’t know that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: […} They that overcome, will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

      That is not hierarchical, but horizontal for all people on a truly level playing field. It makes the Believers Earth Angels, as hate between Humans and the Nations is on the rise.

      • Mooser on February 24, 2019, 4:22 pm

        .” It makes the Believers Earth Angels”

        And now it’s time for a hymn. Please, join in the refrain. The more you refrain, the better.

      • RoHa on February 24, 2019, 8:01 pm

        “He appeared to a woman first before his male Disciples,”

        At least two canonical sources disagree.

        In Paul’s famous list, the first appearance was to Peter.

        Luke: First mention is to Cleopas and the other guy on the road to Emmaus, but they returned to Jerusalem and were, it seems*, told that J had appeared to Simon.

        Matt: Mary M and the other M
        John : MM

        Short Mark: none
        Long Mark : Mary Magdalene

        (The various forged endings of Mark are part of the proof that Early Christian writers were dishonest and cannot be trusted.)

        It is interesting to see that Matthew (28:17) says that not all who saw the resurrected Jesus were convinced.

        (*I find the text a bit obscure here. It is not clear to me whether “λέγοντας” refers to the eleven in Jerusalem or Cleopas and his mate. If the appearance to Simon was not the appearance on the road, it seems very strange that Luke does not give an account of this earlier appearance. Perhaps an expert can help. )

      • RayJosephCormier on February 24, 2019, 11:24 pm

        My personal reference KJV was printed in 1855, before CanaDa and Israel existed. It’s the same edition Presidents Lincoln and Obama took their Oath of Office on.
        Of the 4 Gospels, 3 of them say Jesus appeared to Mary before appearing to any male disciple.

      • MHughes976 on February 25, 2019, 9:33 am

        I don’t see how one coulld translate the received Luke ‘legontas’ except as referring to the Eleven Disciples, both appearing in the accusative case. The Codex Bezae (from the 5th C) isn’t happy with this and has ‘legontes’, making it refer to the Two from Emmaus (which it calls Oulammaus, the Septuagint name for Luz, where God appeared to Jacob) and generally rather changing the import of the scene. The Apostolae Apostolorum idea has some authority and some charm. But I suppose that for Mondoweiss purposes the older scriptures are of greater concern!

      • RayJosephCormier on February 25, 2019, 11:53 am

        Mooser, I’m old enough to remember when that 1955 version of ‘Earth Angel’ came out. The lyrics are in such general terms they could be talking about the Earth Angel in the sense I referred to in my comment.
        This Earth Angel associated with the Spirit in the words, “They that overcome, will I grant to SIT WITH ME in my throne, even as I ALSO OVERCAME, and AM SET DOWN with my Father in his throne.”

        https://ray032.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/earth-angel.jpg

      • RayJosephCormier on February 25, 2019, 12:11 pm

        MHughes976, it is known the Books in the New Testament were selected by a Church Committee, discounting hundreds and maybe thousands of other scripts? The Jewish Old Testament in the Christian New Testament Bible is another matter.

        There will always be disputes about the literal reading of scripture because the same word has different meanings and understandings for different people.

        It’s possible to know the Bible by heart and not know the heart of God.

        For this reason Christ said, ‘Search the scriptures; for in them you think you have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.’

      • Mooser on February 25, 2019, 12:42 pm

        “They that overcome, will I grant to SIT WITH ME in my throne even as I ALSO OVERCAME, and AM SET DOWN with my Father in his throne….”

        “They that overcome”? Sorry, can’t even consider such a thing. Out of the question.

      • Mooser on February 25, 2019, 1:24 pm

        ” the Books in the New Testament were selected by a Church Committee, discounting hundreds and maybe thousands of other scripts?”

        This is scary stuff, “Ray”. Or as they used to sing in the oubliette: ‘C’mon, baby, light my pyre’.

      • RayJosephCormier on February 25, 2019, 1:52 pm

        Mooser you think, “They that overcome”? Sorry, can’t even consider such a thing. Out of the question.

        That’s only one side of the dynamic. This is the other side,
        ‘even as I ALSO OVERCAME’
        from the Christ in Jesus being as fully human as you and I are.

        We all have free choice and free will, and that’s why this is part of my comment,
        ‘That is not hierarchical, but horizontal for all people on a truly level playing field.’

      • RayJosephCormier on February 25, 2019, 2:15 pm

        As for your 2nd comment on the “scary stuff” Mooser, Fake News is not new in the Human Experience.

        The Prophet saw it developing in the People 2800 years ago as recorded in the Jewish part of the Christian Bible,
        ‘Woe to those who say of the evil that it is good and of the good that it is evil; who present darkness as light and light as darkness, who present bitter as sweet and sweet as bitter.”

        It’s still going on steroids these 2800 years later. That same Prophet saw ‘And Justice has turned away backward, and Righteousness stands from afar, for Truth has stumbled in the street, and straightforwardness cannot come.’

      • MHughes976 on February 25, 2019, 3:32 pm

        Many committees at many times, not all of which we know about. They did not stabilise the text at an early date, The Codex Bezae is a fifth century manuscript, not identical with others of about the same time. Momdoweiss is not a Bible discussion site, so I don’t want to get too deep into the New Testament in this context. But I do hope for time for amendment of life (political life included) and for the grace and comfort of the Holy Spirit.

      • RayJosephCormier on February 25, 2019, 6:29 pm

        MH, wherever there is a discussion of Israel, it’s Biblical. You can’t compartmentalize the two.

      • RoHa on February 25, 2019, 11:24 pm

        “My personal reference KJV…”

        I don’t see what the edition, or the KJV, has to do with the matter. We should always go to the manuscripts, and try to tease out what they say.

        “Of the 4 Gospels, 3 of them say Jesus appeared to Mary before appearing to any male disciple.”

        And even in the KJV, Luke and 1 Corinthians 15:5 don’t. But the KJV includes Mark 16:9-20.

        This bit is not found in the earliest manuscripts, and is widely held to be a forgery.

        In the oldest manuscripts of Mark, the story ends 16:8, with the women finding the tomb empty, fleeing, and telling no-one. This is the “abrupt ending”.

        However, later manuscripts include verses 16:9-20 describing the resurrection of Jesus. This is the “long ending”that makes nutty Americans juggle snakes.

        There are also some manuscripts which add just a little bit extra between verses 8 and 9 to those to say that, first, the women told Peter, and second, Jesus sent a proclamation to the world through them.

        There is one manuscript which puts in the extra bit only. This is the “short ending”.
        Since the short ending closes the story, the long ending becomes an appendix.

        And finally, there is another extra bit called “The Freer logion”, which is found only in one manuscript, but which was known to Jerome.

        This is placed between verses 14 and 15.

        Early Christian writers were not trustworthy. They churned out enormous amounts of fiction and forgery, either to inspire the faithful or to make a make a bit of cash from the gullible.

      • RoHa on February 25, 2019, 11:44 pm

        @MHughes

        Case endings to the rescue! That is pretty definitive. Thanks. (I never mastered Greek declensions. Or figured out what the aorist tense does.)

        I’m not surprised the ingenious scribe of Bezae changed it. He liked to change everything which didn’t make sense to him. (He changed the genealogy in Luke by replacing the names there with the names given in the Gospel of Matthew, to resolve the glaring discrepancies between the two genealogies!)

        So he, too, was probably puzzled by the way Luke does not describe the important first appearance to Simon, but keeps it off stage while presenting the story of the road to Emmaus. (Taken from the story of Asclepius at Epidaurus?) And then decided that “Cleopas” was another name for Cephas who was Simon called Peter.

        Perhaps, also, he thought that the way Jesus kept sneaking around and popping up here and there like a ghost was altogether too creepy.

        (It is odd that Jesus seems to be in hiding after his resurrection. One would think that, for maximum impact, he would appear in public before Pilate and the Chief Priests, saying “Nyah nyaah nya nya nyah – can’t kill me-ee!”)

      • RoHa on February 25, 2019, 11:57 pm

        “it is known the Books in the New Testament were selected by a Church Committee, discounting hundreds and maybe thousands of other scripts?”

        The early Church Fathers knew that, for many of the early Christian authors and Christian scribes, intellectual honesty was not their major concern.

        Of all the early writings (see list in comment below) the early Church Fathers deemed that only four of the Gospels, and one set of Acts should be regarded as holy writ. The early Church, then, itself regards most of the Gospels and Acts as dodgy stuff.

        Apparently the early Church Fathers made some mistakes. Some of the letters included in the New Testament are widely deemed to be forgeries. Were they also mistaken about the Gospels and Acts they included? Do we have any good reason for thinking that these are not works of fiction, like most of those that were rejected?

      • RoHa on February 26, 2019, 12:01 am

        Here are just some of the writings the Early Church used.

        Completely preserved Gospels

        Gospel of Mark (canonical) (65 – 80)
        Gospel of Matthew (canonical) (80 – 100)
        Gospel of Luke (canonical) (80 – 130)
        Gospel of John (canonical) (90 – 120)
        Gospel of Thomas (50 – 140)

        Infancy Gospels

        Infancy Gospel of Thomas (140 – 170)
        Infancy Gospel of James (140 – 170)

        Partially preserved Gospels

        Gospel of Judas (130 – 170)
        Gospel of Peter (70 – 160)
        Gospel of Mary (120 – 180)
        Gospel of Philip (180 – 250)

        Fragmentary preserved Gospels

        Dialogue of the Saviour (120 – 180)
        Papyrus Egerton 2 (70 – 120)
        Oxyrhynchus 840 (110 – 160)
        Gospel of the Saviour (120 – 180)
        Gospel of the Twelve ( ? – 200)

        Reconstructed Gospels

        Gospel of the Ebionites (100 – 160)
        Gospel of the Egyptians (175?)
        Gospel of the Hebrews (80 – 150 )
        Gospel of Matthias (110 – 160)
        Gospel of the Nazoraeans (100 – 160)

        Lost Gospels

        Gospel of Marcion (130 – 140)
        Gospel of Basilides (120 – 140)
        Gospel of the Encratites (150 – 200???)
        Gospel of Valentinus (120 – 160)

        Acts

        The Acts of the Apostles (80 – 130)
        The Acts of Andrew and Matthias among the Cannibals. (150 -200?)
        (There has to be a movie in that one!)
        The Acts of Andrew (150 -200)
        The Acts of John (150 -200)
        The Acts of Paul (150 -200)
        The Acts of Peter (150 -200)
        The Acts of Peter and the Twelve (150 -225)
        The Acts of Thomas (200 -200)

      • RayJosephCormier on February 26, 2019, 8:16 am

        There will be no end to the disputations over Scripture.

        And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

        The last word in John’s Gospel

      • eljay on February 26, 2019, 9:36 am

        FSM ftw.  :-)

      • Mooser on February 26, 2019, 11:40 am

        “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.”

        You bet. Why, I bet He did just about anything you could imagine!

      • RayJosephCormier on February 26, 2019, 1:36 pm

        I bet. You bet. We all better be better!

        Had the segue to reveal these experiences in my life that have me on the path I’m on, and the Vision I follow.

        https://onenessofhumanity.wordpress.com/2019/02/22/mintpress-news-destroys-criminal-narratives-about-venezuela/

      • gamal on February 26, 2019, 4:39 pm

        “I bet He did just about anything you could imagine!”

        He farmed rice in Shingo and rests in Kirisuto No Haka and also proclaimed tawhid in Kashmir at exactly the same time and was also buried there, with Jerusalem thats the holy trifecta, one god 3 bets and a big payout. (Ghulam Ahmed used the 50th ayat of sura 23 the believers, to support his Kashmir insight)

        “We made the Son of Mary and his mother a miraculous sign, and We provided for them refuge on a lofty ground of comfort and security, and with a spring.” (23:50)

        Not the kind of guy to try to pin down.

      • RayJosephCormier on February 26, 2019, 7:05 pm

        Gamal, I’m accustomed to the Old English in the KJ Bible, but reading English translations of the Quran requires almost mental gymnastics to understand the way the prose is written as in the chapter ‘The Believers’ you cite in your comment.

        Nevertheless, with the gist of the writing, I see Allah is Aramaic for God, like Dieu is God in French, and the same God having the same attributes, characteristics and requirements as God in the Jewish-Christian Bible.

        The Quran exalts Jesus while Judaism disparages him. Christianity hasn’t got that figures out yet.

        In this discussion upstream I wrote there will be endless disputations over Scripture whether it be from the Jewish Tanach, the Christian part of the Bible and the Quran.

        I dispute this in ‘The Believers’ Chapter, 23:91, Never did Allah take to Himself a son, and never was there with him any (other) god– in that case would each god have certainly taken away what he created, and some of them would certainly have overpowered others; glory be to Allah above what they describe!

        As a Believer, I believe this insight of John, ‘He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
        But as many as received him, to them he gave POWER TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
        Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

        Those who join with him, become the Sons of God on Earth where the saving works have to be done, and the Earth Angels I mention upstream in this thread, before the Wrath of God acted out by men destroys this World.

        That’s the theology of Christ the Saviour, needed before it happens.

      • RoHa on February 26, 2019, 9:35 pm

        Being buried both in Japan and in Kashmir is a neat trick.

        If anyone doubts it (though I can’t imagine why anyone would) here’s the tomb in Kashmir:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaVCA0VN7d4

        And in Japan. The song is awfully convincing.

        https://thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm

      • RayJosephCormier on February 27, 2019, 10:45 am

        RoHa, thank you so much for providing the links in your comment. I’m glad gamal’s comment made you do it. Good research.

        I have nothing to add except I’ve wondered how and why pictorial Hebrew is so similar to Asian pictorial language? The information you provided could be the explanation?

        The Love of God and the Love of our neighbors, near and far on God’s Earth, is enshrined in the Human Heart and not buried.

      • RoHa on February 27, 2019, 10:10 pm

        “I’ve wondered how and why pictorial Hebrew is so similar to Asian pictorial language?”

        I don’t know of any pictorial Hebrew, or what you mean by “Asian pictorial language”.

        If you are referring to the scripts, the vast majority of Asian scripts are not pictorial (in the sense of being ideographs) but phonetic. They are, it seems, mostly derived from the Indian Brahmi script. (And have moved a long way from that. Look at Brahmi, and then look at Javanese, and see if you can detect much relationship.) One of the theories of the origin of Brahmi is that it is derived from early Aramaic script. Another is that is is of independent Indian origin, perhaps from the Indus Valley script. There are nasty knife fights in back alleys about this question.

        Most of those scripts look nothing at all like Hebrew. (I admit, though, that when I am not wearing my reading glasses, and the letters are very small, I am sometimes uncertain whether I am looking at Thai, in a very plain font, or Hebrew. With glasses, I recognise both, though I do not know the languages.)

        The Chinese developed an ideographic script. This was taken up and adapted by the Koreans, Japanese, and Vietnamese, as well as Jurchen, Khitan, and so forth.

        Not long after they learned to write, the Japanese realised that the Chinese system did not have a way of showing the conjugation of Japanese verbs and adjectives.(Yes, there are a set of conjugated adjectives. If you doubt my contention that the Japanese are crazy, try learning the language.)
        They developed two syllabic scripts, and use them both, along with Chinese characters in a continuous typographic orgy.

        The Koreans had similar problems, which they finally resolved by creating an alphabet which seems to be based on a stylised representation of the position of the mouth while making the sound. They don’t write these in a line, but cluster the letters of each word into a little block, and then put the blocks into lines. They think this is quite normal and natural and nothing to be ashamed of at all.

        But none of it looks much like Hebrew.

  15. gamal on February 23, 2019, 9:18 am

    “Warren parrots the “demographics” ”

    How disappointing from a Native American.

    • JWalters on February 23, 2019, 9:02 pm

      The Palestinians are Cherokee, on another Trail of Tears.

      • RoHa on February 24, 2019, 1:28 am

        Boris has, earlier, told us that Jews are Cherokee. Perhaps he has been reading the Book of Mormon.

  16. davisherb on February 23, 2019, 9:28 am

    Human rights!

    Religions are the problem behind the problems!

    Warren should support BDS and push harder for a two state solution.

    I support her candidacy but, would prefer a condemnation of Israels actions and support for the UN positions!

    I agree with Rep.Omar that it is all about AIPAC money and I can accept name calling, I am proud to support the human rights of Palestinians.

  17. tamarque on February 23, 2019, 9:37 am

    Would have loved to be able to support Warren but she is not very progressive at all. However, this interview demonstrates the necessity of undoing Citizens United and getting corporate money out of election politics. I would also say that all campaign money should go into a single pot and be doled out e quitably to candidates to help level the playing field as well as diminish the monetary voices of corporate and foreign State entities.

    I am waiting to hear some big name blow the cover off the myth of Israeli liberal democracy. The country will not even create a Constitution but they keep adding to the list of several dozen (60-70) laws specifically designed to oppress/repress Palestinian civil rights as well as the voices of people on the left in that country.

  18. snaidamast on February 23, 2019, 10:12 am

    Though I agree with the fact that the Democratic lineup is rather thin, Elizabeth Warren is not the only one to consider. Tulsi Gabbard has joined the fray who is far more credible than Warren.

    I do not6 know who the Green Party contender will be for 2020 but Jill Stein, as a person, was far more credible and intelligent than any other candidate in 2016. However, she ran such a poor campaign that she did not even get the expected peercentage of the votes…

    • JWalters on February 23, 2019, 9:06 pm

      It seems to me Jill Stein also had a virtually impossible hurdle in the oligarchy media’s conspiracy to keep her hidden from the voting public. (Even Bernie was effectively buried.) And doing a Donald Trump was just not her style.

    • Citizen on February 24, 2019, 3:50 am

      Gabbard is a real credible force the mainstream news is doing its best to hide.

  19. Ossinev on February 23, 2019, 10:43 am

    @davisherb
    “Warren should support BDS and push harder for a two state solution”

    Are you serious about encouraging anyone to push for a “two state solution”?

    That train if it ever really existed has left the station long ago. The only future viable solution which anyone who really supports the human rights of the Palestinians should be pushing for is a single state for all including Jews/Muslims/Christains/Atheists et al in Palestine between the river and the sea. There would then be truly the foundation of an “only democracy in the Middle East” as opposed to the current Racist Apartheid abomination.

  20. CHUCKMAN on February 23, 2019, 10:45 am

    This is simply terrible.

    Here’s Elizabeth Warren appealing on the basis of an idea advocated by some of Israel’s worst rogues.

    Netanyahu referred once to the Palestinians as a ticking time bomb in our midst, and his remark is less vicious than what other Israelis have said on this topic.

    You cannot by any thinking be regarded as genuinely liberal when you talk like this, but the truth is that that is the story for so many of America’s liberals.

    I like to say, there are no liberals in America because you cannot have both a decent country and a global empire.

    And it is a very rare American figure who speaks against its empire.

    That’s certainly true of Warren, but even the otherwise-more-appealing Bernie Sanders.

    Well, I’ve never been impressed by Elizabeth Warren, and now I’m even less impressed Readers might enjoy:

    https://chuckmanwordsincomments.wordpress.com/2019/01/06/john-chuckman-comment-the-sad-hopes-of-those-called-wrongly-americas-liberals-elizabeth-warrens-candidacy-for-president/

    • Boomer on February 23, 2019, 1:10 pm

      re ” a ticking time bomb ”

      Maybe Israel needs a to emulate China’s action a generation ago, when it implemented a “one child policy.” In Israel’s case, of course, for Palestinians only.

      • Mooser on February 23, 2019, 2:57 pm

        “Maybe Israel needs a to emulate China’s action a generation ago, when it implemented a “one child policy.”

        Yes, it would be much more constructive for the Israelis to raise their own birth rate rather than try to oppress anybody elses.

  21. edwardm on February 23, 2019, 12:54 pm

    this same idiot just said that Americans should pay the descendants of slaves “reparations”. Even though no one alive had anything to do with it. Will she now be suggesting that Israel should pay Palestinians reparations? I mean we have people here who still have keys to the homes Israelis stole. deeds to property, in some cases can actually SEE where they used to live. What of them? Ready to stick it to Americans, and lick the floor for Israel.

    • Citizen on February 24, 2019, 3:57 am

      Further, despite her work against the big banks, they are now bigger than ever and they remain TBTF on steroids; is she speaking up about that? About how the current regime is chipping away at the feeble regulations enacted after 2008 catastrophe? Is she talking about the “bail-in” law, warning every ordinary bank depositor? No. Is she talking about breaking up the big banks? No. Certainly not on tv or in her tweets.

    • Boomer on February 24, 2019, 11:57 am

      re: “Will she now be suggesting that Israel should pay Palestinians reparations?”

      My prediction: no.

      If any reparations are to be paid, they will come from the U.S.

      Will that happen?

      My prediction: Fat chance.

  22. klm90046 on February 23, 2019, 1:04 pm

    We’re all committing the very crime we accuse Pocahontas of: waffling on Israel, not calling people by the names they deserve. Just look at the slip-sliding in this article, even in the comments. You can’t accuse Trump of this, he has a name for everyone!

    So here goes: Elizabeth Warren is Israel’s prostitute.

    Anyone join me in calling a spade a spade?

    • edwardm on February 23, 2019, 5:43 pm

      “Never use ’em. Farmers use spades. but I call a shovel a shovel.” – Terry Pratchett

    • RoHa on February 23, 2019, 9:38 pm

      No. I protest strongly at any attempt at equating political scum with those honest and helpful ladies who bring a bit of fun into the lives of tired businessmen.

  23. Rashers2 on February 23, 2019, 5:23 pm

    “I don’t therefore draw the conclusion that what happened under the Obama administration was never going to work that you couldn’t keep pushing harder because over time realities are bearing down on Israel, demographic realities, births and deaths.” I am confused by this and, without benefit of hearing Sen. Warren’s interview, it’s quite hard to determine whether, by the words in the quote reproduced at the top of this comment, she meant our esteemed Editor-in-Chief’s “take away” or the opposite. Paucity of punctuation and the seeming inability of politicians to speak English (except, I’m sure, in the case of Donald Trump) as they would write it mean that the quotation above is certainly open to more than one interpretation.
    It is sometimes helpful to take away from a sentence otiose words and intervening clauses or phrases to reach the true sense. If the quotation were re-cast simply to read, “I don’t [ ] draw the conclusion [ ] that you couldn’t keep pushing harder because over time realities are bearing down on Israel, demographic realities, births and deaths,“ it becomes a simpler statement in the negative about Warren’s conclusion. She does not conclude that [one] could not keep pushing harder [just] because (i. e., by reason of) realities which, over time, are bearing down on Israel; and she goes on to enumerate these as “demographic realities, births, deaths”. In other words, she concludes that the “realities are bearing down on Israel, demographic realities, births and deaths” do not represent excuses to fail to push harder.
    This is not an attempt to provide any kind of “cover” for Sen. Warren, merely to divine whether she meant what PW believes she meant or whether she meant what the interpretation illustrated above of her words means.

    • MHughes976 on February 24, 2019, 1:10 pm

      I think that’s a fair and rather overdue point, Rashers. I don’t think that Warren said that Israel had good reason to reject Obama’s efforts because it has such problems with demography. I’m sure she meant that pressure for the 2ss should be maintained because the demographics would one day force the 2ss to happen. For my part I think that is unrealistic and bad, because the ‘classic’ 2ss is so screamingly unfair. But she isn’t expressing pro-Israel racism.

  24. Jackdaw on February 24, 2019, 3:41 am

    The demographic problem lies with high births among Haredi Jews and Bedouin, not Palestinians.

    Both births rates must be severely curtailed by the government.
    When the least educated, least productive have high birth rates, trouble follows.

    • Mooser on February 24, 2019, 11:41 am

      “The demographic problem lies with high births among Haredi Jews… births rates must be severely curtailed by the government.”

      What’s the minimum number of Jews needed to make self-determination viable?

      • Mooser on February 24, 2019, 1:42 pm

        “When the least educated, least productive have high birth rates, trouble follows.”

        Did you make that up, or read it in the Talmud?

    • oldgeezer on February 24, 2019, 9:09 pm

      @jackdaw

      And what methods are moral, or even acceptable, to curtail those high birth rates? What limits exist?

      • Jackdaw on February 25, 2019, 1:02 am

        Israeli social security subsidizes child care. The more kids you have, the more the government payout you receive. How do the think a Talmud student in Jerusalem with six kids gets by? The dole.

        Abolish the insanity.

        A Bedouin waiter in the South told my wife that his father has 38 kids.

        Insanity.

    • Talkback on February 25, 2019, 8:53 am

      Jackdaw: “The demographic problem …”

      Why is it a demographic “problem” to begin with?! Maybe because your Haredi interjection is absolutely irrelevant and it is only masked racism?

      • Jackdaw on February 25, 2019, 11:38 am

        @walkback

        No, fool.
        I corrected Phil, who I gather from his great distance from Arabs, is the real racist.

        Here are the facts, Talkcrap.
        https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israels-population-to-reach-20-million-by-2065-492429

        Have you ever asked why it is that Phil always goes to Jewish BnB’s when he visits Israel?
        Never breaks bread with Arabs?
        Why is that?

      • Mooser on February 25, 2019, 12:52 pm

        “Israel’s Population to reach 20 million by 2065”

        And 15 million of them will be Haredi.

      • Talkback on February 25, 2019, 2:13 pm

        Jackdaw: “@walkback”

        Ok, Jackdaw. Don’t tell me you didn’t ask for it countless times. From now on I will insult you back on a tit-for-tat base.

        JackASS: “No, fool.
        I corrected Phil, who I gather from his great distance from Arabs, is the real racist.”

        What is the logic behind that, imbecile? Phil is not a Zionist – you are the supremacist racist.

        Jackass: “Here are the facts, Talkcrap.
        https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israels-population-to-reach-20-million-by-2065-492429

        Well, Jackass. You should read and understand these facts.
        “… haredim comprising nearly a third of the population … The researchers expect no significant changes in the proportion of the population made up by Jews, Arabs and others.”

        That would lead to 42% Non-haredi Jews, 33% Haredim, 21% Arabs (including 3,5% Bedouin).

        So why do you blame Haredim and Bedouin [3,5%!], Jackass? Why don’t you claim that secular Jews are a the biggest demographic problem?

      • Talkback on February 25, 2019, 2:15 pm

        No Mooser, only 6,3 Million out of 25 according to the forecast in the article.

      • gamal on February 25, 2019, 2:56 pm

        “So why do you blame Haredim and Bedouin”

        Because Bedouins breed like Rabbis, he can see that from close up.

  25. James Canning on February 24, 2019, 12:29 pm

    I think it would be a good thing for the Palestinians if American politicians felt free to say openly that too many non-Jews are being born in Israel/Palestine.

  26. jrg on February 24, 2019, 4:10 pm

    Mooser: “Did you make that up, or read it in the Talmud?”

    That’s an intriguing comment, Mooser. What’s your understanding of what the Talmud contains and what purpose it serves?

    • Mooser on February 24, 2019, 5:51 pm

      “What’s your understanding of what the Talmud contains and what purpose it serves?”

      Oh, it’s very poor, I’m sure, me being brought up Reform. I don’t really know what the Tamudic (or Torah)position on eugenics is. Is the Talmud in favor of limiting only Bedouin births, and not Haredi?

      • Jackdaw on February 25, 2019, 1:04 am

        I said both Haredi and Bedouin.

        Mooser. You are childish, to the point of embarrassment.

        Don’t have kids.

      • Talkback on February 25, 2019, 9:05 am

        Jackdaw: “I said both Haredi and Bedouin.”

        You are an antisemite, Jackdaw! Having a minimum of two sons (Shammai) or one son and one daughter (Hillel) is a mitzvot for any Jewish husband. So what do you do if you reach this goal only after 10 children?

        Shame on you!

  27. just on February 25, 2019, 8:14 am

    Look who else spoke of ‘demographics’:

    “Jewish, Not Democratic: Kahane’s Blueprint for an Israel Remade in His Image …

    Kahane maintained that there is a basic “contradiction” between the State of Israel being both a democracy and a Jewish State. He argued that Israel cannot be a Jewish state if the Arab population, having a vote, outnumbers the Jewish population. …

    Two years later, in 1987, Kahane became preoccupied with the “demographic threat” posed by the Arabs, which he called incredibly dangerous – while the solution “lies within us, in our souls, in our wish to admit to the truth”. What is that truth? That there is an “insurmountable contradiction” between the concept of Zionist and a Jewish state, and the concept of western democracy. Anybody who doesn’t grasp that is obtuse, he said.

    According to Kahane, the Jewish state by definition cannot be democratic. In his vision, Israel should be a “state with Jewish sovereignty… in which the Jew determines his own future and fate, and the Jew is the captain of the ship.” Non-Jews have no say in national decisions that determine the fate of the state and the nation, Kahane averred.

    Why couldn’t Israel be Jewish and democratic? Because, Kahane said, “Western democracy rejects the concept of a Jewish state with disgust” because it requires a state ruled by the majority, whoever the majority might be. If the Arabs were the majority, Kahane said, then it would be their right to set up a state as they please, and they would eliminate the Jewish state.

    His solution, presented to the Knesset, was to move them out of Israel, willing or not.

    “When my nation and I face annihilation, would I ask the person aspiring to exterminate me if he is prepared to leave? I’m not that much of a sucker. Let everybody live in their own countries. They have 22 of them,” he said – and they could live there in “love and brotherly fraternity, and coexist with their brothers, Arab coexistence, but not here. We don’t have 22 countries. We don’t even have two. This one is ours and it doesn’t belong to another people or person who is not a Jew.”

    On another occasion he remarked that by “faith in God and a hand that isn’t hard but is iron, without fear, we shall expel them.”

    Transfer was only one element of Kahane’s solution. In his speeches he presented four subsections en route to salvation. “We must: First, Annex Judea, Samaria and Gaza, thus obviating the possibility that Shimon Peres will forsake Judea, Samaria and Gaza, as [Menachem] Begin abandoned the Sinai. Second, establish massive settlement throughout the West Bank, including inside the big cities of Nablus, Hebron and Jenin. Third, make transfer plans; forth, to return to our Father in heaven, to faith and trust in God.” …”

    more @ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-jewish-not-democratic-kahane-s-blueprint-for-an-israel-remade-in-his-image-1.6963889?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Funny how we’ve endured some of the same scoldings from some commentators here @ MW… and his plan/vision is largely today’s reality.

  28. Boomer on February 27, 2019, 9:20 am

    “a gentleman’s burp”

    A nice phrase, and an apt description. It’s a new expression, at least new to me. And I didn’t find it in a quick web search I did, except for your own use here.

    It could also be applied to Obama’s response to the financial crisis, at least as far as prosecuting and regulating the wrongdoers. (He did, of course, “foam the runways” for the banks via giant bailouts with little accountability, as his self-satisfied Treasury Secretary so memorably put it, while explaining that Americans were too stupid to understand the necessity of this policy.

    Warren has the courage to call out the banks, but not AIPAC.

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