Trending Topics:

When the denial bubble bursts: an Israeli kibbutz faces the Nakba

Opinion
on 200 Comments

What happens when a people are confined to a bubble where the “truth” has one book to read, to follow and obey, then suddenly the bubble bursts and the sun shines on a whole new truth, verifiable, clear, and sound? 

This what happens to the kibbutzim in Nirim, Nir Oz, Magen and Ein Hashloshla.  These four kibbutzim were established after the Nakba of 1948 on my land, Al Ma’in, (65,000 dunums — 16,000 acres). Al Ma’in was and is the home of my Abu Sitta family for centuries, now refugees in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere.

The one who burst the bubble was Eitan Bronstein Aparicio, founder of De-Colonizer (previously founder of Zochrot, an Israel-Palestinian group that educates Israelis about the Nakba). Eitan set up a simple and modest exhibit. He collected maps, books, videos, and an RAF aerial photo of Al Ma’in in 1945, showing fields and features of the village and curated them in two rooms and a courtyard. The exhibit was held on July 25, 2019 in ‘The White House’, a lone Palestinian house which survived the Israeli demolition of the village in 1948 and was converted to a gallery by Haim Peri, a Nir Oz artist.

Eitan invited the settlers in Al Ma’in and neighboring areas to come and see the exhibit. His message was simple. These were the people who lived here and are now refugees two kilometers away behind the barbed wire in the Gaza Strip. The presentation implied that Israel took their property and now you live in it.

Although the number of visitors was modest, probably four or five dozen, the responses were indicative of those who have been denied access to the truth, the victims of silencing Al Nakba.

The angriest comments. and indeed threats, came from an old Kibbutznik, over 80, who witnessed and participated in the attack on Al Ma’in. The Haganah militia attacked Al Ma’in on May 14, 1948 in 24 armored vehicles, destroyed and burned homes, demolished the school that was built in 1920, blew up the motorized well and the flour mill. They were resisted bravely for several hours by 15 Palestinian defenders armed by old rifles. As a child, I witnessed the smoldering remains of my village while I was huddled with other children and women in a nearby ravine. I never saw a Jew before and did not know who the attackers were or why they came to destroy our life. 

On the fourteenth of May 1948, I became a refugee.

On that day Ben Gurion declared the state of Israel on the ruins of my country Palestine.

Following the attack and occupation, the four kibbutzim were built on Al Ma’in land in the period 1949 to 1955. The Abu Sitta family who were then about 1000, and now about 10,000, became refugees mostly in the Gaza Strip.

The old settlers, who were present in 1948, accused Eitan with sedition and suggested he find another country to immigrate to. They threatened to tell the authorities to deny entry to foreign visitors who may come especially to see the exhibit. Ironically, these elders were the first to visit the exhibit, probably to find how to explain their story of denial.

Their story of course does not deserve rebuttal. They said there were no people there. ‘We came to an empty desert’. How could they explain the fields in the aerial photo? Who planted them? The exhibit house, the motorized well and its flour mill, the remains of which are still there, how could they explain those?

The oldest settler from Nirim, Solo (aka Chaim Shilo or Solo Weicheck), 94, a German of Russian extraction, was indignant when a British journalist asked him repeatedly, why you don’t allow the Abu Sitta family to return home?

The old settlers said these houses were built by the British. This is a strange claim as anyone with rudimentary knowledge of Palestinian history will know we had been fighting the British since Balfour. In particular, my eldest brother Abdullah was the leader of the 1936-1939 Revolt in the southern district. He and his comrades expelled the British from the Beer Sheba district for one year from October 1938 to November 1939. 

The old settlers said they bought the land. But none would give any proof they owned a single plot for miles around, legally or otherwise. 

The most common response for young and old was: ‘We won the war. Since when has the victor returned what he won?’

To suggest that being strong in winning a war against a weak party is a justification for a crime would relieve Nazi Germany from their crimes because they could and did these crimes. Under the same argument, the British would be exonerated from the Amritsar massacre in 1919, the Russians from executing Polish officers in Katyn Forest in 1940, and the French from throwing hundreds of Algerian prisoners into the sea by helicopter death flights in 1957.

The settlers repeated the same old mantra,We accepted the Partition Plan, you did not. Would it be possible for France to give more than half of the country to African immigrants?’ 

Had the settlers been informed, they would know that the Partition Plan was a mere recommendation, had no binding legal value. The UN had no authority to divide countries and said so. Moreover, the UN, and surprisingly the U.S., abandoned the Partition Plan in favor of UN Trusteeship over Palestine.

Not one Israeli source mentions that. The poor settlers would be the last to know. 

The settlers claimed that, ‘If you did not wage a war against us, there would be peace between us.’ This is very odd. I do not recall that my family or any group of Palestinians deployed an army and marched to Poland and Russia to attack the Jews there. The reverse was true. Who then waged the war? They did not know the answer.

What they certainly do not know is that the abandonment of the Partition Plan in mid-March 1948 triggered a major event in the history of the Nakba. Ben Gurion decided to conquer Palestine and ordered Plan Dalet to be implemented at once.

Thus started the Zionist invasion of Palestine. In six weeks from first of April to 14 of May 1948, the Haganah conquered critical locations in Palestine and established Israel on the ground, after Herbert Samuel (1920- 1925) laid its legal foundation 28 years earlier.

In these six weeks, 220 villages including most cities were attacked and depopulated, almost half of all Palestinian refugees were expelled, and 22 massacres out of 50 that took place over the course of the Nakba were committed. During those same six weeks 17 military operations were carried out by nine brigades. In any attack there were superiority of numbers up to 1:10 against the defenders. In total, Israel mounted 31 military operations to occupy several regions of Palestine thus increasing their control from 6% of Palestine at end of the mandate to 78% by the middle of 1949. New land was occupied to form a solid spine from the mid-coastal plain to Merj bin Amer to western bank of the river Jordan from Beisan to Metulla. 

That was the real invasion of Palestine. It was a Zionist invasion. 

Enter Adele Raemer, a new settler in Nirim. She came from the Bronx in 1975 to settle on my land. She writes a blog about the suffering of the kibbutzim in the ‘Gaza Enclave’ and laments Palestinian kites burning ‘her’ wheat fields. I responded by saying these are my wheat fields. I told her that I remember as a child being allowed to sit on our combine harvester.

She wanted to know: How long did the Abu Sitta family live in Al Ma’in?

I refused to answer. I could have replied that Abu Sitta name was on Allenby maps when he took Beer Sheba in 1917, that my great-great-grandfather was mentioned by name in an 1845 Ottoman document copied in Cairo and Jerusalem. I could have said that the name Abu Sitta (Father of Six) was coined in about 1720 on account of my early ancestor was a well-known knight accompanied by six companions/guards.

I refused to answer because I do not have to prove my heritage to a settler whose relatives came from the shtetel to the shores of Palestine in a smuggler’s ship in the dead of night.

Her lamentations about the hardship of life in Nirim were echoed by her cousin, Gil Troy, a professor of history at McGill University. His academic background did not save him from the confines of the denial bubble.  He writes, in response to the devastating Israeli attack on Gaza in August 2014, that Nirim was established in 1946, that is before the Nakba. Wrong. It was established on my land in the spring of 1949 after we were attacked and expelled. He admired the “true farming community” but omitted to mention it was established on a stolen property, and the owners are watching them behind the barbed wire two kilometers away. He praises the settlers as “farmers who even under fire continue reaching out to their Gazan neighbors, confuse the world with their remarkable Jewish, Zionist and democratic generosity”.

The bubble of denial prevented the learned professor to note that the population of 247 depopulated villages are crammed into the tiny Gaza Strip at a density of 7000 persons per km2 while the settlers are roaming their land at a density of 7 persons per km2.

Nirim itself has 173 members and their families exploiting 20,000 donums (5,000 acres) of my land while my Abu Sitta extended family are 10,000 refugees living two kilometers away.

The learned professor talks about Israel’s “border”. He should have known that Israel never had a border neither by its own admission nor in international law. He was probably referring to the line of the Armistice Agreement February 24, 1949. But the second article of this Agreement states that it does not grant rights to Israel, neither to its sovereignty nor to ownership of occupied land.

No doubt the learned professor does not know that the border he speaks of is only a ‘modus vivendi’ temporary line agreed to in February 1950. The real Armistice Line is three kilometers inside the land occupied by Israel in 1948, which makes Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, and Nir Oz falling in un-occupied Palestine, now called the Gaza Strip. 

Source of map: Salman Abu Sitta, Atlas of Palestine 1917- 1966. London, Palestine Land Society, 2010.

Source of map: Salman Abu Sitta, Atlas of Palestine 1917- 1966. London, Palestine Land Society, 2010.

This thought alone would terrify the settlers and transform Eitan’s exhibit into a bombshell of facts which undermines all their claims. But it was not mentioned.

Curiously absent from all conversation is the horrendous rape and murder of a 12 year old Arab girl captured by a Nirim platoon in August 1949. The platoon soldiers took turns to rape the girl, then they shot and buried her. Only her hand sticking out of the shallow grave remained a sign. Ben Gurion mentioned it briefly in his war diary. Not one mention of this crime, not even the older settlers, like Solo, who were there at the time.

But there is a ray of hope, a ray so tiny as to expose the volume of denial. This is a response from Efrat Katz, a settler in Nir Oz. It is worth quoting in full:

What I’ve seen here today was very moving and even painful. In spite of living here more than 35 years I feel the need and the hope to return to the land and revive it with the past emotions, to revive it with the culture and habits of yours, the residents. 

A land is not a brick. A land is a value, it is roots, it is a love of a place. There’s no room for deportation. My heart is with you.

It may appear to settlers that the bubble of denial is a safe place to hide. The logic is clear.  If a crime is exposed, the perpetrator would be a criminal due for punishment and remedy. Eitan’s exhibit is a clear reminder. 

But now there is not much space left in the denial bubble to hide. When the whole world knows about the crime, justice will catch up with them and the remedy will be too heavy a price to pay.

Salman Abu Sitta

Salman Abu Sitta is the founder and president of the Palestine Land Society, London, dedicated to the documentation of Palestine’s land and People. He is the author of six books on Palestine including the compendium “Atlas of Palestine 1917- 1966,” English and Arabic editions, the "Atlas of the Return Journey" and over 300 papers and articles on the Palestinian refugees, the Right of Return, and the history of al Nakba and human rights. He is credited with extensive documentation and mapping of Palestine's land and people over 40 years. His widely acclaimed memoir "Mapping my Return" describes his life in Palestine and his long struggle as a refugee to return home.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

200 Responses

  1. pabelmont on September 5, 2019, 7:14 pm

    Doesn’t sound like the settlers were ready to absorb the message!

    QUOTE: “No doubt the learned professor does not know that the border he speaks of is only a ‘modus vivendi’ temporary line agreed to in February 1950. The real Armistice Line is three kilometers inside the land occupied by Israel in 1948, which makes Nirim, Ein Hashlosha, and Nir Oz falling in un-occupied Palestine, now called the Gaza Strip”

    My late wife’s family had an orange-farm (“biyara”) just north of Gaza in 1948, in a village called Hirbiya. Could that biyara be in a never-never land between (trucial) “Israel” and the Gaza Strip? Or properly part of the Gaza Strip?

  2. orkassem on September 6, 2019, 8:48 am

    Very good article. Thank you.
    I used to find it hard to understand why the U.S. supports Israel, but then realized that this country grew as a result of taking land away from and killing native Indians just like the Israelis did in Palestine. They both have the same “might makes right” mentality.

    • rthomas13 on September 6, 2019, 9:53 am

      There is some truth to this, but America’s historical relations with native peoples is not quite the same. Palestine was not a stone age culture for whom the land was almost worthless. Some tribes had established agriculture, but most had not and depended on a hunter-gatherer subsistence. More importantly Americans are trying to do justice to remaining tribes who are not restricted to reservations unless they wish to do so, but mix freely as full citizens.

      • annie on September 6, 2019, 12:45 pm

        Native Americans reference the earth/land as “sacred and inalienable mother” it’s where the term “mother earth” comes from. when they pray it is to “great spirit mother” (earth), hence to claim the land was worthless to them seems almost sacrilegious.

      • Keith on September 6, 2019, 5:02 pm

        RTHOMAS13- “…America’s historical relations with native peoples is not quite the same.”

        All things considered, it was worse. Are you not aware that the US genocide of the Native Americans was viewed positively by Hitler who used it as his guide to dealing with the Slavs of Eastern Europe? When it comes to cruelty and injustice, Uncle Sam takes a back seat to nobody.

      • Keith on September 6, 2019, 5:31 pm

        RTHOMAS13- “… a stone age culture for whom the land was almost worthless.”

        There is a difference between viewing the land as priceless versus selling land for a high price. To get a feel for how the Plains Indians viewed the land, I link to a highly recommended video of a descendant of these stone age savages. “Crazy Horse,” we hear what you say.

        John Trudell: Crazy Horse video (6:00 min)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku8ga-krBe4

      • MHughes976 on September 7, 2019, 12:07 pm

        Sam Gill argued in ‘Mother Earth: An American Story’ that the name or term was not really a major part of ancient American religions or ideas but was attributed to the First Family Americans by White people in translating and interpreting what they heard in terms meaningful to themselves. It then bounced back as a way of making Whites understand, in terms they knew, that they had violated certain rights.
        ‘Mother Earth’ is one of the oldest expressions of Western culture, with a major poet making a point of saying how appropriate it is: ‘I must not fail to say how well merited is the term ‘Mother’ for the Earth, since from Earth all things have been created’ – Lucretius 5: 795. I believe that the expression is found in Linear B Mycenaean, so is 3000 years (as the Zionists like to say) old.
        Morally the expression is a bit ambiguous – since the Earth is our common mother are we all equally her children and equally native and equally among our family everywhere? There are related expressions which appropriate some of the Earth – ‘No other land could bear them (ambiguous!) but their motherland, old England’ . This terminology can become a bit aggressive but need mean no more than that everyone has a rational concern with where (s)he was brought up, first began to make a life, first developed common interests with others nearby. I am sure that Palestine is the motherland of many Palestinians in this significant sense.

      • gamal on September 7, 2019, 7:39 pm

        “hence to claim the land was worthless to them seems almost sacrilegious.”

        Hey Annie when he was young Abdul Basit opened the Quran with a full reverence, full reverence..it’s so hot.

        https://youtu.be/jK-mxZC1GFk?t=1

      • Keith on September 8, 2019, 12:36 am

        RTHOMAS13- “… a stone age culture for whom the land was almost worthless.”

        I am surprised that there is no comment regarding John Trudell’s “Crazy Horse” video, one of the most moving presentations I have seen. That being the case, I now provide the poem sans music/pictures to provide a feel of how the Native American “savages” valued the land versus the civilized Europeans for whom mountain top removal and strip mining were an essential part of “progress.”

        Crazy Horse
        we hear what you say
        One Earth, one Mother
        One does not sell the Earth
        The people walk upon
        We are the land
        How do we sell our Mother ?
        How do we sell the stars ?
        How do we sell the air ?
        Crazy Horse
        We hear what you say

        Too many people
        Standing their ground
        Standing the wrong ground
        Predators face he possessed a race
        Possession a war that doesn’t end
        Children of God feed on children of Earth
        Days people don’t care for people
        These days are the hardest
        Material fields, material harvest
        decoration on chains that binds
        Mirrors gold, the people lose their minds
        Crazy Horse
        We Hear what you say

        One Earth, one Mother
        One does not sell the Earth
        The people walk upon
        We are the land.
        Today is now and then
        Dream smokes touch the clouds
        On a day when death didn’t die
        Real world time tricks shadows lie
        Red white perception deception
        Predator tries civilising us
        But the tribes will not go without return
        Genetic light from the other side
        A song from the heart our hearts to give
        The wild days the glory days live
        Crazy Horse
        We Hear what you say
        One Earth, one Mother
        One does not sell the Earth
        The people walk upon
        We are the land
        How do we sell our Mother
        How do we sell the stars
        How do we sell the air

        Crazy Horse
        We hear what you say
        Crazy Horse
        We hear what you say
        We are the seventh generation
        We are the seventh generation

  3. CigarGod on September 6, 2019, 10:38 am

    Adele Raemer wanted to know: How long did the Abu Sitta family live in Al Ma’in?

    Nah, that isn’t what she wanted to know.
    She wanted to change the discussion from emigrant Jew and Palestinian, to one of Arab invader against 2000 years Jewish history, in order to delegitimize your claim. Of course that is her convenient stopping place. To go back further would undermine her ridiculous claim even more.
    She can’t help it. She has been taught to parrot such things, as both proper and reasonable. Of course she knows she would be lying, but since everyone does it, no one would call her on it.

    • JWalters on September 7, 2019, 7:29 pm

      Good call. This article hit the Zionist “myths” especially hard, judging by the acres of AIPAC manure being spread here by Jackdawf.

  4. Jackdaw on September 6, 2019, 11:00 am

    Hate to bust your bubble but…..

    The Abu Sitta clan is part of the Tarabin tribe.
    The name of Tarabin derives from the Taraba valley in Saudi Arabia where this tribe has once settled.

    Tarabin Bedouin traced their ancestry to one ‘Atiya who belonged to the Quraysh tribe.
    It is believed that ‘Atiya migrated to Sinai in the 14th Century.

    The Tarabin are famous mercenaries.

    In 1873, Sheikh Saqr ibn Dahshan of the Abu Sitta clan, had to leave that clan’s traditional land following a blood feud.

    I presume that is when the Abu Sittas arrived in the al Main.

    So it’s okay for a Bedouin tribe to migrate from Arabia to the Negev, displacing whomever they want, and it’s okay for the Abu Sitta clan to migrate from the Negev, displacing whomever they want, but, if Jews migrate from Eastern Europe and North Africa to their ancestral homeland, buying land from the Arabs with hard cash….Oy va voy!

    Oy va voy!

    • bcg on September 6, 2019, 12:44 pm

      @Jackdaw: “The Haganah militia attacked Al Ma’in on May 14, 1948 in 24 armored vehicles, destroyed and burned homes, demolished the school that was built in 1920, blew up the motorized well and the flour mill.”

      Does that sound like they bought the land with hard cash?

      • Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 2:50 am

        @bcg

        There was a full-scale war being fought in the Negev in May 1948.

        https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-negev-and-the-south-may-1948

        A little context, please.

      • RoHa on September 7, 2019, 8:42 am

        “There was a full-scale war being fought in the Negev in May 1948.”

        A war being fought because the Jews were not prepared to live as equal citizens in a unified Palestine, but wanted to create a Jewish state there.

      • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 10:45 am

        There was a full-scale war being fought in the Negev in May 1948.

        @zio birdbrain,

        A little context, please.

        There was a full scale zio infiltration, colonization and pre-planned hostile takeover of Palestine by indoctrinated foreign jews, codified in 1897 by the first zio congress in Europe, and enabled by the treacherous double dealing British colonial power that occupied Palestine between 1922 and 1948. Your glorious zio “war” of “independence” was the nothing more than a violent land grab by jewish foreign aggressors and usurpers, aided and abetted by the so called Great Powers.

        Draft Memorandum by the Director of the Office of United Nations Affairs (Rusk) to the Under Secretary of State (Lovett)

        secret [Washington,] May 4, 1948.

        Subject: Future Course of Events in Palestine

        The refusal of the Jewish Agency last night to agree to our proposal for on-the-spot truce negotiations in Palestine on the grounds that they could not accept the “moral obligation” to undertake such conversations rather clearly reveals the intention of the Jews to go steadily ahead with the Jewish separate state by force of arms. While it is possible that Arab acceptance of our proposal might place the Jewish Agency in such a position vis-à-vis public opinion that it would have to go through the motions of looking for a truce, it seems clear that in light of the Jewish military superiority which now obtains in Palestine, the Jewish Agency will prefer to round out its State after May 15 and rely on its armed strength to defend that state from Arab counterattack.

        Military operations after May 15 will probably be undertaken by the Haganah with the assistance of the Jewish terrorist organizations Irgun and Stern. Copies of Consul General Wasson’s excellent reports, as set forth in his telegram 530 of May 3, are attached, and provide the estimate of the British General Officer Commanding as to the probable course of military events after British withdrawal on May 15.

        If these predictions come true we shall find ourselves in the UN confronted by a very anomalous situation. The Jews will be the actual aggressors against the Arabs. However, the Jews will claim that they are merely defending the boundaries of a state which were traced by the UN and approved, at least in principle, by two-thirds of the UN membership. The question which will confront the SC in scarcely ten days’ time will be whether Jewish armed attack on Arab communities in Palestine is legitimate or whether it constitutes such a threat to international peace and security as to call for coercive measures by the Security Council.

        The situation may be made more difficult and less clear-cut if, as is probable, Arab armies from outside Palestine cross the frontier to aid their disorganized and demoralized brethren who will be the objects of Jewish attack. In the event of such Arab outside aid the Jews will come running to the Security Council with the claim that their state is the object of armed aggression and will use every means to obscure the fact that it is their own armed aggression against the Arabs inside Palestine which is the cause of Arab counter-attack.

        There will be a decided effort, given this eventuality, that the United States will be called upon by elements inside this country to support Security Council action against the Arab states. To take such action would seem to me to be morally indefensible while, from the aspect of our relations with the Middle East and of our broad security aspects in that region, it would be almost fatal to pit forces of the United States and possibly Russia against the governments of the Arab world.

        Given this almost intolerable situation, the wisest course of action might be for the United States and Great Britain, with the assistance of France, to undertake immediate diplomatic action seeking to work out a modus vivendi between Abdullah of Transjordan and the Jewish Agency. This modus vivendi would call for, in effect, a de facto partition of Palestine along the lines traced by Sir Arthur Creech Jones in his remark to Ambassador Parodi on May 2, as indicated on Page 3 of USUN’s telegram, May 2, which has been drawn to your attention.

        In effect, Abdullah would cut across Palestine from Transjordan to the sea at Jaffa, would give Ibn Saud a port at Aqaba and appease the Syrians by some territorial adjustment in the northern part, leaving the Jews a coastal state running from Tel Aviv to Haifa. If some modus vivendi along these lines could be worked out peaceably, the United Nations could give its blessing to the deal.”

        https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1948v05p2/d210

      • Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 11:19 am

        @RoHa

        “A war being fought because the Jews were not prepared to live as equal citizens in a unified Palestine, but wanted to create a Jewish state there.”

        No. It was the Arabs who were unwilling to live with Jews in unified Palestine, which is why the Arabs murdered Jew during the Mandate of Palestine.

        Murdered innocent Jews by the score.

      • wondering jew on September 7, 2019, 11:45 am

        Roha- Name one Palestinian leader, who in 1947, advocated for equality between Arabs and Jews. Spoiler alert: There was none. The official (Palestinian) party line was: We will kick out the Jews who are recent (post 1897) arrivals. (This position may be justified, or not, but it is not a call for equality). And thus your inference that the Zionists were opposing equality is a lie. They were fighting for specific goals, that might not have measured up to equality, but they were fighting against an enemy who wanted to kick them out.

        Your lie is obvious whereas the untruth told by Abu Sitta is one of omission. He presents the offensive by the Zionists in March through May of 1948 without the necessary context. In the aftermath of the UN Partition Plan of November of 1947 there was no peace in Palestine: there were bombings and the roads between Jewish towns were impassable due to Arab (Palestinian) snipers. To present Plan Dalet without the historical context is to obfuscate the truth.

        (BTW- a minor point of semantics. Even though referring to the land as Palestine existed in the land, it was not the mainstream expression of identity that it became later on. All the major Arab leaders who we now call Palestinians referred to themselves as Arabs, rather than as Palestinians. The organization which the mufti, Amin Al Husseini, led was called the Arab Higher Committee, not the Palestinian Higher Committee.)

      • Mooser on September 7, 2019, 12:54 pm

        “Yonah” can you please tell us why Palestinians should regard the “histyorical homeland” claims o0f a bunch of European Jews with anything but alarm and contempt?

      • echinococcus on September 7, 2019, 1:54 pm

        Fredman,

        “Roha- Name one Palestinian leader, who in 1947, advocated for equality between Arabs and Jews. Spoiler alert: There was none.”

        Your comprehension level is more deeply compromised than that of Jack$$, in his post available next to yours for comparison.

        RoHa has it in a capsule:

        “A war being fought because the Jews were not prepared to live as equal citizens in a unified Palestine, but wanted to create a Jewish state there.”

        Can’t read after the last comma? Your Zionist bunch had decided to colonize Palestine, and too usurp and subvert sovereignty over it by founding their state instead of immigrating as law-abiding additions asking for permission from the inhabitants and adapting to their rules. It had clamored the intentions, clear and loud, in 1897. From that date on, every Zionist is an invader who must be repelled. No ifs, buts, pills or pulls about that.

      • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 1:59 pm

        No. It was the Arabs who were unwilling to live with Jews in unified Palestine, which is why the Arabs murdered Jew during the Mandate of Palestine.

        No. The Palestinian natives were unwilling to live with hostile foreign Zionist Jewish usurpers from Europe who, aided and abetted by the British colonial power during the Mandate of Palestine, were intent on violently dispossessing and expelling the Palestinians.

        Murdered innocent Jews by the score.

        Zionist Jews from Europe had been plotting the violent takeover of Palestine since at least 1897.

        No one forced foreign and hostile Zionist Jews to leave their homelands and travel thousands of miles to cause trouble in Palestine and be “Murdered” as a result.

      • eljay on September 7, 2019, 9:30 pm

        || wondering jew: … a minor point of semantics. Even though referring to the land as Palestine existed in the land, it was not the mainstream expression of identity that it became later on. All the major Arab leaders who we now call Palestinians referred to themselves as Arabs, rather than as Palestinians. …. ||

        Two significant points:

        1. Geographic Palestine was geographic Palestine and, as such, it was the actual homeland of all the non-Jews and Jews living in and up to n-generations removed from it.

        2. Unless you’re a Jewish supremacist (Zionist), geographic Palestine was not and still is not the ancestral / ancient / historic / eternal / one true homeland of every person in the world – of every citizen of every homeland throughout the world – who has chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

      • RoHa on September 8, 2019, 1:37 am

        ” It was the Arabs who were unwilling to live with Jews in unified Palestine”

        It was the Zionist Jews who intended to take the country away from the Arabs.

        “Murdered innocent Jews by the score.”

        Zionist Jews were not innocent.

      • RoHa on September 8, 2019, 1:48 am

        “And thus your inference that the Zionists were opposing equality is a lie.”

        The Zionists were not prepared to live as equal citizens with the Palestinian Arabs. They wanted a Jewish state with as few Arabs as possible. If this implies that they “opposed equality”, then where is the lie?

      • RoHa on September 8, 2019, 2:13 am

        “Name one Palestinian leader, who in 1947, advocated for equality between Arabs and Jews. Spoiler alert: There was none. “

        And yet :
        “Following this failure, the Arab states accepted an invitation from the British Government to send delegations for yet one more conference in London in the winter of 1946-7. But no result was achieved. The Arab delegates reiterated the now unshakable Arab demand for an independent, democratic state in Palestine, offering equal rights to all citizens, freedom of education to the Jews, and the use of Hebrew as an official language. But they insisted on the immediate stoppage of all immigration, and the enforcement of existing regulations against the sale of land to the Jews in certain parts of Palestine.”
        pp 176 – 177
        Atiyah, Edward, (1958 rev. ed.) The Arabs, Penguin Books, Harmondsworth.

        The proposal might have come from the other Arab states, and not from the Palestinians themselves, but it is difficult to imagine that it would have been reiterated without at least grudging agreement from the Palestinian representatives.

      • wondering jew on September 8, 2019, 2:36 pm

        Roha- The war was fought for a number of reasons, but your presentation implied that the offer from the Palestinians was that of equality. It was not. The tantalizing behind the scenes offers at the UN are interesting, but do not establish a thing except as “what ifs”. what if, is a part of historical analysis, but not the major part. the major fact was that the palestinians were not offering equality and you implied they were.

      • Mooser on September 8, 2019, 4:28 pm

        “the offer from the Palestinians was that of equality. It was not.”

        And what obligated the Palestinians to offer European, American and British colonial settlers “equality”?

        (And of course, by “equality” you mean the unrestricted liberty, backed by guns, to run all over the Palestinians and steal everything.)

      • wondering jew on September 8, 2019, 10:24 pm

        Mooser- I do not blame the Palestinians for resisting Zionism. The day of the Balfour Declaration was a sad day for Palestinians and the day of the gathering of the Zionists in Basel was a sad day for the Palestinians. I do not blame the Zionists for endorsing Zionism. The situation in Europe was indeed dire, there was a sickness in the culture that mutated into the Nazi phenomenon and those Jews who insisted that “We need an army. We need a land of our own.” were reacting to a very real problem that existed on a national level and their answer in fact took wings, insufficient wings to make a real dent in the catastrophe that occurred, (although Tom Segev refers to the Jews in the Yishuv as the Seventh Million, so there was a bit of a difference at least for a few hundred thousand including my cousins), but it took wings and it was born out of necessity. And so the logic of Palestinian resistance notwithstanding, the logic of Jewish nationalism (though insufficient to the catastrophe brewing in Europe) was born of necessity.

      • RoHa on September 9, 2019, 12:28 am

        ” your presentation implied that the offer from the Palestinians was that of equality. ”

        It implied nothing of the sort. It very clearly stated that the Zionists were not offering but rejecting equality. Any other implication you think you see is the product of your own perversity.

        That said, I have presented a reason for thinking that the Arabs did, at least in the final stages before the 1948 war, offer equality.

      • RoHa on September 9, 2019, 12:37 am

        ” it was born out of necessity”

        I have pointed out before that “necessity” can only serve as an excuse for a very minor wrong to avoid a major wrong. (I’m pretty sure that some ethicists would not even accept that.)

        My standard example is that it is permissible for me to jump the queue and leap onto the bus first if this is necessary to save my life.
        It is not permissible for me to push the first person in the queue under the bus, even if that is necessary to save my life.
        Nor is it permissible to jump the queue if it is necessary to save me from being late to work.

      • RoHa on September 9, 2019, 12:42 am

        On the other had, I admit I am tempted by the “necessity” justification.

        I can argue that just about every bit of imperialism carried out by the British between 1316 and 1914 was necessary to save the British from the garlic chewers. (French, mostly, but also the Spanish.) That’s a grand prospect for an unreconstructed old imperialist.

      • eljay on September 9, 2019, 7:31 am

        || wondering jew: … the logic of Jewish nationalism … was born of necessity. ||

        The logical response to acts of injustice and immorality committed against a group is justice for that group and accountability for the perpetrators.

        The logical response is not for members of that group to exercise a self-proclaimed “right”:
        – to be supremacists;
        – to carve out of a geographic region as large as possible a supremacist state for themselves and their group; and
        – to do “necessary evil” unto others.

      • Mooser on September 9, 2019, 12:25 pm

        ” I do not blame the Palestinians…”

        Liar. You have already blamed them, about a half-a-dozen times in this very thread!
        You also have an archive.

      • echinococcus on September 9, 2019, 1:13 pm

        RoHa,

        “That said, I have presented a reason for thinking that the Arabs did, at least in the final stages before the 1948 war, offer equality.”

        Some Arabs did, mainly non-Palestinian. Palestinians generally knew by then that offering anything to Zionists would not save them their land or their existence.

      • eljay on September 9, 2019, 6:41 pm

        || Mooser: ” I do not blame the Palestinians…”

        Liar. You have already blamed them, about a half-a-dozen times in this very thread!
        You also have an archive. ||

        Don’t be too hard on y.f., Mooser. I mean, it’s not as though he wants to blame the Palestinians. It’s just that they insist on hating Jews more than they love their own children.

        You could say the Palestinians are making y.f. hate them.

        Well, maybe you couldn’t say that, but maybe he could.

      • RoHa on September 10, 2019, 1:54 am

        “Palestinians generally knew by then that offering anything to Zionists would not save them their land or their existence.”

        True, but the offer was on the table*. The Zionists had a chance to behave like decent human beings and accept equality with the Arabs.

        They didn’t. They chose evil.

        (*Unless Atiyah is very much mistaken. Given his position, this seems unlikely.)

      • echinococcus on September 10, 2019, 9:05 am

        RoHa,

        No contest to that. My comment, though, was a proffered explanation for the scarcity of Palestinians among the miscellaneous “Arab” leaders that sought to appease the Zio monster by offering the invader a futile “equality”.

      • Mooser on September 10, 2019, 3:26 pm

        “You could say the Palestinians are making y.f. hate them.”

        “Eljay”, Zionism is trolling.
        It’s the only form of communication it knows.

      • Mooser on September 11, 2019, 12:55 pm

        And as “Yonah” demonstrates so very well in his reply to me, when Zionists talk to a Jew, they troll hardest of all.

    • JaapBo on September 6, 2019, 1:28 pm

      You are speculating that the Abu Sitta’s displaced other people. You lie that Zionism bought the land. And your suggestion of an antisemitic motive is a smear!

      • Jackdaw on September 6, 2019, 4:25 pm

        The Tarabin tribe became the dominant Negev Bedouin tribe by warring against other Negev Bedouin tribes ,and by selling themselves as mercenaries for the Ottomans.

        I didn’t suggest anti-Semtism, Jaap, you ferreted it out on your own.

        This author’s sad attempt to portray Bedouin as victims, flies in the face of history.

        The Bedouin were vicious predators who preyed on ‘Palestinian’ farmers, kept and traded Black African slaves (until Israel liberated them in the 1940’s), and who maintain a rigid caste system to this day.
        Truly bigoted racists, who make Jim Crow look good in comparison.

      • RoHa on September 6, 2019, 6:22 pm

        All par for the course, JaapBo.

      • RoHa on September 6, 2019, 6:24 pm

        Incidentally, the Sittas may not have actually displaced anyone, but they were in the way when the Zionists wanted the land. And that is much, much, worse, isn’t it?

      • RoHa on September 6, 2019, 10:54 pm

        So Jackdaw is saying that the Zionists are just following the practices of the Bedouin?

        (Misplaced comma between “victims” and “flies”. Is the comma-after-subject-clause error a Bedouin custom or a Zionist custom?)

      • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 5:04 pm

        The Bedouin were vicious predators who preyed on ‘Palestinian’ farmers, kept and traded Black African slaves (until Israel liberated them in the 1940’s), and who maintain a rigid caste system to this day.

        And what does any of this asinine zio garbage have to do with you, birdbrain, a native New Yorker who’s now squatting illegally on belligerently occupied and stolen Palestinian land?

        If the belligerently occupied Palestinians had a functioning criminal justice system, a Zionist criminal like you would have been arrested for aggravated trespass years ago and deported back to your “ancestral” New York.

      • echinococcus on September 7, 2019, 7:59 pm

        Ersatz,

        “And what does any of this asinine zio garbage have to do with you, birdbrain, a native New Yorker who’s now squatting illegally on belligerently occupied and stolen Palestinian land?”

        A New Yorker squatter who’s part of the collective owner of around 6 million slaves.

      • Mooser on September 9, 2019, 5:19 pm

        “And what does any of this asinine zio garbage have to do with you, birdbrain, a native New Yorker who’s now squatting illegally on belligerently occupied and stolen Palestinian land?”

        Well, “Jackdaw” tells us:

        “I was raised secular, and lived in New York for 55 years before moving to Israel. I made Aliyah for completely secular reasons.
        I know exactly what I’m saying about the demise of American Jewry vis-a-vis, assimilation and intermarriage, because I watched, for over fifty years, my friends and family give up Judaism. I gave up on traditional Judaism.

        I bear none of my friends and family any malice.
        I love them all and I respect their freedom to choose their individual lifestyles with their respective partners.

        That doesn’t change the fact that they sold out their religion and its traditions .” “Jackdaw”

        And that makes a lotta sense, don’t it? “Completely secular reasons”? Like flight to avoid persecution? Or didn’t like living in the US under martial law?

    • Bumblebye on September 6, 2019, 2:02 pm

      Corvid the acquisitive.

      One or two ancestors from a foreign tribe does not make *all* their descendants foreigners. After so many centuries – seven? – that’s a probability of around 28 generations and a likelihood of less than 1% of genetic inheritance.

      • Jackdaw on September 6, 2019, 4:30 pm

        No, it actually does make ‘all’ their descendants foreigners, because Bedouin maintain a rigid caste system based on centuries old blood lines.
        ‘Noble’ Bedouin do not marry lower class Bedouin, because these lower class Bedouin may or may not have intermarried with local Arabs.

        No Bedouin, of whichever class, married their African slaves.

        Racists to their very core.

      • RoHa on September 6, 2019, 10:59 pm

        “No, it actually does make ‘all’ their descendants foreigners, because Bedouin maintain a rigid caste system based on centuries old blood lines.”

        You’ll have to explain to me how that works. A caste system based on bloodlines does not exclude change of citizenship.

    • eljay on September 6, 2019, 4:58 pm

      || Jackdaw: … So it’s okay for a Bedouin tribe to migrate from Arabia to the Negev, displacing whomever they want, and it’s okay for the Abu Sitta clan to migrate from the Negev, displacing whomever they want, but, if Jews migrate from Eastern Europe and North Africa to their ancestral homeland … ||

      It’s not OK for anyone to displace whomever they want.

      It’s not OK for anyone to use terrorism, ethnic cleansing, military occupation, colonialism and sundry (war) crimes to establish and maintain as large as possible a religion-supremacist state.

      And geographic Palestine was not and still is not the ancestral / ancient / historic / eternal / one true homeland of every person in the world – of every citizen of every homeland throughout the world – who has chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

      • Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 6:11 am

        @eljay

        The Abu Sitta clan lost a blood feud and were exiled to Al Ma’in.

        Next, the Abu Sitta clan bet the wrong horse, fought the Jews, and were exiled to Gaza.

        Why is it the greater calamity to lose a war to the Jews, and face exile, than to lose a war to another Bedouin clan, and face exile?

      • eljay on September 7, 2019, 8:52 am

        || Jackdaw: @eljay … Why is it the greater calamity to lose a war to the Jews, and face exile, than to lose a war to another Bedouin clan, and face exile? ||

        That’s right, I did say:

        It’s not OK for anyone to displace whomever they want.

        It’s not OK for anyone to use terrorism, ethnic cleansing, military occupation, colonialism and sundry (war) crimes to establish and maintain as large as possible a religion-supremacist state.

        And geographic Palestine was not and still is not the ancestral / ancient / historic / eternal / one true homeland of every person in the world – of every citizen of every homeland throughout the world – who has chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

      • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 1:02 pm

        Why is it the greater calamity to lose a war to the Jews, and face exile, than to lose a war to another Bedouin clan, and face exile?

        It’s the Zionist occupation, birdbrain! And by “Zionist occupation” I mean the belligerent Zionist occupation and takeover of Palestine in 1948, by a warmongering mob of Jewish Zionist irredentists from Europe, intent on “reclaiming” their biblical ErsatzYisrael from the Palestinians and their neighbors.

      • Mooser on September 7, 2019, 4:31 pm

        The Zionists believe they are entitled to painless iredentistry.

    • Somervillein on September 6, 2019, 11:35 pm

      I don’t know where you are “coming from,” Jackdaw, but you seem to be clearly in the bubble of Zionist denial that Abu Sitta describes (and in which so many others of us humans live). Simply turning the accusation back against him won’t help. Instead of trying to teach this superbly educated man about his family, you would do better to read his recent memoir, “Mapping My Return.”

      Humans have been moving freely around Mother Earth ever since Adam and Eve left Eden. Modern establishment of political boundaries and control over them are unfortunate, in my view. God created us to SHARE the earth and to care for it well; but we have failed in both of these intended activities, which failings have the strong potential to end our life on this wonderful planet.

      In the long history of human life, the present State of Israel and occupied Palestine was inhabited by many different ethnic/cultural groups. Only according to the self-serving Jewish scriptures did God give it to the soi-disant “chosen people.”

      Let us ALL cooperate in living peacefully, productively and happily TOGETHER instead of feverishly buying and selling–and worse, conquering and expelling.

      • pabelmont on September 7, 2019, 10:12 am

        Another point entirely: mankind began, ages ago, when there were few people and enough (maybe only just enough) animals and edible plants to sustain them. Warfare must have begun when populations became too large (in that sense). But today the human population is dreadfully “over the top” and was so also in 1948. There is never (for many centuries I dare say) enough room for everybody to live comfortably, certainly not for people to claim a land for themselves whether or not they or some similarly named group may once upon a time have lived in roughly the same place. Zionist grabbing of part of Palestine (initially it sometimes seems precisely that part of Palestine where ancient Jews did not have kingdoms) was necessary if modern Zionist Jews were to have an exclusive state of their own, which they wanted and maybe also needed. It did not have to grow as it has done (1967) except that they also wanted more. The creation of Israel is the result of unforced human grabiness, without other right than the right of force, not unlike colonialism since the time when (e.g.) the Spanish invaded and colonized the Americas.

        Today we have global climate change and see that, for sure, the earth is far too full of people. Not just Israel/Palestine. Had all people learned to live small on the land, a lot of troubles coming from overpopulation might have been avoided. Possibly even I/P.

    • Misterioso on September 9, 2019, 9:52 am

      @Jackdaw

      “…if Jews migrate from Eastern Europe and North Africa to their ancestral homeland, buying land from the Arabs with hard cash….Oy va voy!”

      Utter nonsense!! With the possible exception of some Jews who were driven out of al Andalus by Spanish Christians into North Africa and then given sanctuary in Palestine e.g., Hebron, by Palestinian Arabs, even if Palestine was their “ancestral homeland,” which it certainly is not, your assertion is pure poppycock. According to your “logic,” as a descendant of Irish folk who were dispossessed and driven out of their homeland by the British in the 19th century, I have a right to emigrate to Ireland and drive out the current occupants of my ancestors’ properties.

      Also, as is now common knowledge, the vast majority of foreign Jews were and are NOT descendants of the ancient Hebrews who ruled a portion of ancient Palestine for a mere 70 years. It is estimated that the Hebrews did not invade until circa 1184 BCE and their resulting United Kingdom of Israel, which never controlled the coast from Jaffa to Gaza, lasted only about 75–80 years, i.e., less than a blip in the history of Canaan and Palestine. Even the Hasmonean Dynasty under the Maccabees lasted only about 70 years (circa 140 – 70 BCE) and it was under Roman control.

      Renowned historian/anthropologist and “Holy Land” specialist, Professor Ilene Beatty: “When we speak of ‘Palestinians’ or of the ‘Arab population [of Palestine]‘, we must bear in mind their Canaanite origin. This is important because their legal right to the country stems… from the fact that the Canaanites were first, which gives them priority; their descendants have continued to live there, which gives them continuity; and (except for the 800,000 dispossessed refugees [of 1948 along with the further hundreds of thousands expelled before and after the war Israel launched on 5 June 1967]) they are still living there, which gives them present possession. Thus we see that on purely statistical grounds they have a proven legal right to their own land.” (“Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan,” 1957)

      To quote Polish born David Ben-Gurion (real name, David Gruen): “‘race’ does not unite Jewry since the ancient people dissipated after so much dispersion.” (Philippe de Saint Robert, Le Jeu de la France en Mediteranee, 1970, p.182)

      Also For the record:
      “The Racist Gene” Haaretz, June 21, 2017: EXCERPT: “In 2013, the results were published of a study by the prominent British geneticist Martin Richards, who specializes in researching the maternal genome, which passes from the mother to all of her descendants. Richards researched the maternal genetic ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews. And lo and behold, he discovered that 80 percent or more (!) of the maternal genetic makeup of Ashkenazi Jews derives from European women – goys, heaven forbid. Gevalt! Devoid of any gene originating in the Land of Israel.”

      http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087/full

      Front. Genet., 21 June 2017 | https://doi.org/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087

      “The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish”

      “Recent genetic samples from bones found in Palestine dating to the Epipaleolithic (20000-10500 BCE) showed remarkable resemblance to modern day Palestinians.”

      EXCERPTS:
      “The non-Levantine origin of AJs [Ashkenazi Jews] is further supported by an ancient DNA analysis of six Natufians and a Levantine Neolithic (Lazaridis et al., 2016), some of the most likely Judaean progenitors (Finkelstein and Silberman, 2002; Frendo, 2004). In a principle component analysis (PCA), the ancient Levantines clustered predominantly with modern-day Palestinians and Bedouins and marginally overlapped with Arabian Jews, whereas AJs clustered away from Levantine individuals and adjacent to Neolithic Anatolians and Late Neolithic and Bronze Age Europeans.”

      “Overall, the combined results are in a strong agreement with the predictions of the Irano-Turko-Slavic hypothesis (Table 1) and rule out an ancient Levantine origin for AJs, which is predominant among modern-day Levantine populations (e.g., Bedouins and Palestinians). This is not surprising since Jews differed in cultural practices and norms (Sand, 2011) and tended to adopt local customs (Falk, 2006). Very little Palestinian Jewish culture survived outside of Palestine (Sand, 2009). For example, the folklore and folkways of the Jews in northern Europe is distinctly pre-Christian German (Patai, 1983) and Slavic in origin, which disappeared among the latter (Wexler, 1993, 2012).”

      Furthermore:
      Despite massive Jewish immigration during the British Mandate, in 1947 when the recommendatory only UNGA Partion Plan was passed, Jews comprised just 31% of the population & privately owned only 6 to 7% of the land. Outrageously, the Partition Plan recommended Jews receive 56% of Palestine as a state!! (Native Arab Palestinian Jews comprised 10% of the Jewish population and were vehemently opposed to Zionism.)

      48% of the total land area of mandated Palestine was privately owned (‘mulk khaas’) by Palestinian Arabs. (To repeat, total Jewish privately owned land was between 6% and 7%.) About 45% of the total land area was state owned (i.e., by its citizens)* and it was comprised of Communal Property (‘mashaa’), Endowment Property, (‘waqf’), and Government Property, (‘miri’.) The British Mandate kept an extensive land registry and the UN used the registry during its early deliberations. It has in its archives 453,000 records of individual Palestinian owners defined by name, location & area. *Only 30% of the Jewish immigrants had taken out citizenship & tens of thousands were illegals.

      Land ownership in all of mandated Palestine ,1947: By Sub district – Acre: 87% Palestinian owned, 3% Jewish owned, 10% state owned; Safed: 68% Palestinian owned, 18% Jewish owned, 14% state owned; Haifa: 42% Palestinian owned, 35% Jewish owned, 23% state owned; Nazareth: 52% Palestinian owned, 28% Jewish owned, 20% state owned; Tiberias: 51% Palestinian owned, 38% Jewish owned, 11% state owned; Jenin: 84% Palestinian owned, less than 1% Jewish owned, 16% state owned; Beisnan: 44% Palestinian owned, 34% Jewish owned, 22% state owned; Tulkarm: 78% PalestinIan owned; 17% Jewish owned, 5% state owned; Nablus: 87% Palestinian owned, less than 1% Jewish owned, 13% state owned; Jaffa: 47% Palestinian owned, 39% Jewish owned, 14% state owned; Ramleh: 77% Palestinian owned, 14% Jewish owned, 9% state owned; Ramallah: 99% Palestinian owned, less than 1% Jewish owned, less than 1% state owned; Jerusalem (West and East): 84% Palestinian owned, 2% Jewish owned, 14% state owned; Gaza: 75% Palestinian owned, 4% Jewish owned, 21% state owned; Hebron: 96% Palestinian owned, less than 1% Jewish owned, 4% state owned; Bersheeba: 15% Palestinian owned, less than 1% Jewish owned, 85% state owned. (Village Statitistics, Jerusalem: Palestine Government, 1945; subsequently published as United Nations Map no. 94b, August, 1950)

      Regarding land ownership in West and East Jerusalem in 1947: The total land area of West Jerusalem (the New City) was 19,331 dunams (about 4,833 acres) of which 40 per cent was owned by Palestinian Muslims and Christians, 26.12 per cent by Jews and 13.86 per cent by others, including Christian communities. Government and municipal land made up 2.90 per cent and roads and railways 17.12 per cent.

      East Jerusalem (the Old City) consisted of 800 dunams (about 200 acres) of which five dunams (just over one acre) were Jewish owned and the remaining 795 dunams were owned by Muslims and Christians. (“Assessing Palestinian Property in the City,” by Dalia Habash and Terry Rempel, Jerusalem 1948: The Arab Neighbourhoods and their Fate in the War, 1999, pp. 184-85)

  5. JaapBo on September 6, 2019, 1:28 pm

    Impressive article!

    • Somervillein on September 6, 2019, 11:38 pm

      And read his recent memoir, “Mapping My Return,” to say nothing of his masterful “Atlas of Palestine.”

  6. Boomer on September 6, 2019, 2:37 pm

    It’s good to have the facts reported, even if the bubble (in the USA as well as in Israel) remains intact. The reality distortion field is strong.

  7. JWalters on September 6, 2019, 7:40 pm

    This is a great bubble-bursting article! I hope many people share it widely, especially on mainstream news sites, where people need to be informed.

  8. Somervillein on September 6, 2019, 11:44 pm

    Truth certainly favors the Palestinians, as you and so many others have documented in your books, Dr. Abu Sitta. Alas, that is not enough to bring justice–at least, not quickly. Kudos for your life-long dedication to truth, justice and Palestine. God will reward you, if no one else does. Best wishes to the 12th generation of Abu Sittas–and to all the rest of over-fruitful-and-multiplied humans.

  9. Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 3:50 am

    I glanced through Salman Abu Sitta’s book, and he conspicuously omits some facts.

    First, his beloved Al Ma’in was already an armed camp when the Jews attacked.
    The Arab defenders of Al Ma’in had constructed defenses, planted mines, and resisted the Jews with rifles, a machine gun and an anti-tank weapon on the night of the attack.

    Why had the Jews attacked Al Ma’in?
    Because the Egyptian army and Egyptian irregulars were laying siege to nearby Kibbutz Darom. The attack on Kibbutz Darom involved tanks and planes of the Egyptian Air Force. A relief column of Jews encountered the hostile village of Al Ma’in and a pitched battle was fought.

    Se le guerre.

    A little context please.

    • RoHa on September 7, 2019, 8:47 am

      And why did the Egyptian army lay siege to the kibbutz?

      It was because the Jews were not prepared to live as equal citizens in a unified Palestine, but were fighting to create a Jewish state there.

    • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 12:22 pm

      I glanced through zio birdbrain’s comment, and he conspicuously omits some facts.

      First, his beloved Jews were foreign zio aggressors from Europe who infiltrated Palestine and violently usurped Palestine from the native Palestinian population.

      The Jewish aggressors and usurpers from Europe had constructed a legal instrument between 1919 and 1922 that enabled their hostile takeover and wholesale theft of Palestine from under the feet of the Palestinians, planted armed jewish terrorist militias throughout Palestine (with the help of their British sugar daddies), and smuggled heavy duty weapons from Europe to terrorize and ethnically cleanse Palestine.

      Why were foreign Jewish terrorists from Europe able to attack Al Ma’in in Palestine?
      Because the British colonial power and occupier of Palestine, between 1922 and 1948, conspired with a cabal of European Zionist Jews, to enable the enforced mass influx of hostile Jewish colonial-settler terrorists into Palestine, and the eventual hostile takeover of Palestine.

      C’est la Zionist wholesale usurpation of Palestine.

      A little context please.

  10. Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 8:02 am

    More tiny bubbles to be burst.

    Salman’s father, Hussein, was the commander of the local Arab resistance forces in the Northern Negev.
    That’s why Salman’s house was blown up.

    Lastly, sitting smack on ‘Salman’s land’, are the remains of a 6th century Jewish synagogue.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maon_Synagogue

    The mosaics are exquisite, aren’t they?

    Bobo out.

    • RoHa on September 7, 2019, 8:48 am

      “Lastly, sitting smack on ‘Salman’s land’, are the remains of a 6th century Jewish synagogue”

      So what?

      • Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 11:23 am

        So what?

        So Eretz Yisroel was the homeland of the Jews before the Arab conquistadores left the Tarabin valley in Arabia and migrated to the Negev.

      • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 1:14 pm

        So Eretz Yisroel was the homeland of the Jews before the Arab conquistadores left the Tarabin valley in Arabia and migrated to the Negev.

        No, Ersatz Yisrael was a stupid Bible story. If you want to reclaim your “ancestral homeland”, birdbrain, go find a Bible to occupy.

      • MHughes976 on September 7, 2019, 3:38 pm

        The existence of a Jewish building from the 500s shows that there were many Jews in the area then, but it does not show that there were not also many non-Jews, some of whose descendants may have stayed around for centuries and may still be there now, and it does not show (if names are significant) that ‘Eretz Yisroel’ was the name currently in use, even among those who were Jewish. But rights these days are not inferred from the balance of population in ancient times. There were not too many English people in (what was not then called) England in 400 CE but that does not mean that no English person has a right to live here now.
        It is wrong to march in, kill and take possession. Everyone knows that. The Bible suggests that the Israelites did just this, rightly but only because of a special divine mandate for the eventual good of all humanity.
        Not everyone believes in divine mandates but everyone must see that there have been many migrations and conquests. No one can gain rights by violence, that would be absurd, but it is possible to gain rights from settlements and agreements that are made to bring periods of violence to an end. We may hope against hope for a settlement with which Palestinians and Israelis can live.
        At the time of the Nakba the various ‘Arab’ groups had, I think, been for a long time, thanks to whatever settlement had been put together before those days, legitimate residents of Palestine as subjects of the Ottoman Empire and then the British Mandate. That was enough to make excluding them from their homes an immoral act, mosaics from 550 or no mosaics from 550. There has just been a discovery in Boxford, not far from me, of a Roman mosaic with pagan imagery. It has no political implications.

      • Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 5:06 pm

        Stone cold slave owning racists.

        Ugh.

      • eljay on September 7, 2019, 8:28 pm

        || Jackdaw: … Eretz Yisroel was the homeland of the Jews … ||

        Geographic Palestine was not and still is not the ancestral / ancient / historic / eternal / one true homeland of every person in the world – of every citizen of every homeland throughout the world – who has chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

      • Jackdaw on September 8, 2019, 12:20 am

        @MHughes

        “It is wrong to march in, kill and take possession.”

        The Zionist Jews did march in, kill and take possession.
        They were invited to migrate and settle the land by force of international law, i.e. San Remo Conference.

        Indeed, it was the Arabs who repeatedly attacked the Jewish settlers, who only began to retaliate in the late 1930’s.

        It was the Arabs who attacked the Jews in November 1947, and the Arab States, pursuant to religious fatwa, who attacked the nascent Jewish State in May, 1948, the day after the Jews declared independence.

        “It is wrong to march in, kill and take possession.”

        That, coming a Brit, whose empire was once so vast, that it never saw a sunset.

        Ha!

      • RoHa on September 8, 2019, 2:21 am

        “So Eretz Yisroel was the homeland of the Jews before the Arab conquistadores …”

        Palestine was the homeland of 6th Century Palestinian Jews, but that does not give 19th and 20th century European Jews any right to live there.

        (The Nidhe Israel Synagogue in Barbados was built in 1654, and is still in use. Is this old enough to make Barbados a homeland of the Jews?)

      • Mooser on September 8, 2019, 1:58 pm

        Here we go, “Jackdaw” is ‘Flying Down to Remo’ by the sea-o!
        Hey feller, twirl that ol’ propeller.

      • Jackdaw on September 9, 2019, 1:15 am

        @MHughes

        What happened to the Jewish synagogue from 550, and the town in which it was built, is that after 680 c.e., the Arab invaders from Arabia ordered the destruction of Byzantine coastal towns, expelling both the Jewish, and the Christian, inhabitants.

      • MHughes976 on September 11, 2019, 1:06 pm

        I don’t see, Jackdaw, that you contradict any point I made either about what is proved by the existence of the late-antiquity synagogue or about the moral – or divine – prohibition on killing and taking possession. Maybe we have an area of agreement there. I certainly wasn’t claiming an exceptional divine mandate for the British Empire.
        I still think that we have to accept that there have been wars and conquests. We cannot negate them completely or undo all their consequences. I was saying that we can just about create imperfect right in place of horrible wrong by making agreements that are reasonable in all the circumstances – and that we may hope against hope that this will happen in Palestine/Israel.
        I was claiming that as a result of previous conflicts followed by agreements and arrangements and international consensuses the ‘Arabs’, now called Palestinians, of 1948 were legitimate residents of Palestine, that seeming to be a point at issue.
        However, I admire your flourish in signing off with ‘Ha!’. I can’t quite think of an equally 2-literal riposte.

    • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 11:24 am

      @zio birdbrain,

      Salman’s father, Hussein, was the commander of the local Arab resistance forces in the Northern Negev.

      Good on Hussein! If only the foreign Jewish infiltrators hadn’t been able to hide behind the skirts of their British sugar daddies, the Palestinian Arab resistance against the foreign Jewish usurpers would have succeeded, and no one would be speaking comedy “hebrew”.

      That’s why Salman’s house was blown up.

      No, his house was blown up because the zio jews who usurped Palestine from Salman have very fragile egos.

      Lastly, sitting smack on ‘Salman’s land’, are the remains of a 6th century Jewish synagogue.

      You heard it from the zio birdbrain’s beak, folks:

      Salman was Jewish and is being denied Aliyah by the zio usurpers.

      • Jackdaw on September 7, 2019, 1:25 pm

        Yeah, and the Palestinian Arab resistance hid behind the skirts of the Egyptian Army and their Sudanese mercanaries and hid behind the skirts of Muslim Brotherhood irregular invaders.

        Yet the all these Arabs and Sudanese were defeated by the ‘zios’.

        The foreign Arab infiltrators, who haled from the Tarabin Valley in Arabia, landed smack on Jewish land.

        Lovely mosaics, what?

      • ErsatzYisrael on September 7, 2019, 4:09 pm

        Yeah, and the Palestinian Arab resistance hid behind the skirts of the Egyptian Army and their Sudanese mercanaries and hid behind the skirts of Muslim Brotherhood irregular invaders.

        Yeah, but only because the Palestinian Arab resistance, fighting back against the wholesale theft of their homeland by Zionist Jewish terrorists from Europe, was virtually destroyed by your British sugar daddies and enablers in the 1930’s.

        If the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 “Arab” armies you brainwashed zio apologists loooooooooove to bleat about hadn’t intervened on behalf of the Palestinians, the Palestinian Nakba would have been the Palestinian Holocaust.

        Yet the all these Arabs and Sudanese were defeated by the ‘zios’.

        Yeah, and the foreign zio usurpers wouldn’t have been able to defeat a fly in Palestine, and would never have even been in Palestine, without the help of their British sugar daddy enablers.

        The foreign Arab infiltrators, who haled from the Tarabin Valley in Arabia, landed smack on Jewish land.

        Nope, native Palestinian Arabs living in their homeland and within greater “Arabia”, who were invaded by a hostile foreign mob of zio-Jew irredentists and usurpers from Europe, aided and abetted by their British sugar daddy enablers.

        Lovely mosaics, what?

        Yeah, Salman’s lovely mosaics, stolen from him just like his land was stolen from him.

  11. gamal on September 7, 2019, 5:07 pm

    in the Sinai the Tarabin are renowned for their black skin and honesty….Bedouin live now not in some bullshit misapprehended history, how many of you would consult the Mabinogion to see if you own your shit…

    you know you can get into all sorts things “all nations ya hear this time….lightning clap and weak heart drop” Big Youth names a player..(and the dub is called big youth fights capitalists 1975 from the very old days)

    yabba you …(vivian jackson), calm in the crucible (check out Yabba You, Vivian is always happy to disagree)

    https://youtu.be/8LYTExgPD00

    • RoHa on September 8, 2019, 1:33 am

      Doesn’t the Mabinogion somewhere say “Ac am ei wasanaeth cafodd Huw gymaint o dir ag y gallai ei ych gerdded o gwmpas mewn diwrnod”? (My memory might not be entirely accurate about this.)

      Since MHughes is clearly a descendant of Huw, that would mean he is OK.

      Not so sure about the rest.

  12. Danaa on September 8, 2019, 2:58 am

    Interesting article and I love the idea of the exhibit. presenting the lives that were before they were no more in the form of photographic art exhibit. One that illustrates better than anything the real burning truth: Israel is essentially a photoshopped “reality”. The invading colonialist-settlers did what settler-colonialists always do – use the brush, the feather and the other lightroom tools to retrace the lines of a hypothetical “border” and obscure the colors and texture of the original landscape, complete with vegetation, structures and inhabitants, while re-dimensioning, repositioning the color contrast, adding artificial depth, cropping and blotting out much of the history and existence of the civilization that was there.

    The true zionist triumph was, IMO, a masterpiece of photographic illusion – presenting a made-up language and a made-up history, complete with pathos and demos to pretend they achieved a new demos (my word for “peoplehood”).

    But, the good people of Abu-Sitta, like archaologists and art restorers, may yet uncover the original paint, the original texture, and the original perspectives to show the true masterpiece of the lives that once imbued the land with its true potential. In no small measure, thanks to modern tools that allow such masterful restorations.

    All this being said, I urge people to actually read the emanations of one jackdaw. He/she/it does a pretty good job of showing what the zionist bubble is actually made of. Some of what he says sounds kind of familiar to me, like something I was taught in school, long ago. I suspect that much of the points he makes, not so subtly, reflect the substance of what most israeli children are being taught nowadays. jackdaw may be an agent of something or other, obviously on a mission to cast aspersions on them who expose the photoshopped reality of the israeli bubble, But there are millions in israel who subscribe to the same views and make the same arguments. It’s worth mapping these out so the full extent of the bubble with all the hot air it contains can become manifest.

    • Mooser on September 8, 2019, 3:19 pm

      ” jackdaw may be an agent of something or other, obviously on a mission”

      He is a lonely American who made aliyah-oops in late middle age, and thinks he can convince himself he didn’t screw up by yelling at us.

      • Jackdaw on September 9, 2019, 1:08 am

        @looser

        Actually, I had been working the anti-Zionist circuit well BEFORE I made Aliyah.

        Whether I’ve screwed up, remains to be seen. I’ve been here seven years.

        BTW. How’s everything at home?

      • echinococcus on September 9, 2019, 11:14 am

        “at home”?

        You forfeited that home, Buster. We’ll have to take you back as a refugee.

      • Mooser on September 9, 2019, 12:30 pm

        “Actually, I had been working the anti-Zionist circuit well BEFORE I made Aliyah.”

        It never fails. They get banned everywhere else, so they troll Mondo.

        “Whether I’ve screwed up, remains to be seen. I’ve been here seven years.”

        Yeah, I’m simply astonished at the risks Mondo Mods will take in the name of free speech.

  13. Jackdaw on September 8, 2019, 8:43 am

    And so we are clear, the departure during the war of Bedouins who lived in areas that were underJewish control in the Negev was not mass expulsion. It began in May 1948 with the arrival of information about the impending Egyptian invasion.It continued in tandem with the vicissitudes of military operations. Bedouins were interested in distancing themselves from the area in which military action was to take place.

    In the south-western region, the departure of the Tarabin westward began the day before the end of the Mandate, when they received information about the concentration of Egyptian forces consisting of thousands of troops and dozens of tanks and armoured vehicles near Rafah. Most ofof those who remained behind joined the Egyptians and took part in the battle against the Jewish villages in their area. As the war continued, theyretreated with the Egyptians to Gaza and Sinai.Some of those who retreated with the Egyptians continued further through Transjordan to the area of Dahariya and Mount Hebron. Members of the Hanajra confederation were found west of Tarabin, near Gaza. They participated in some of the attacks on Jewish settlements in the area, including KfarDarom, and they then moved to Gaza.

    Yahel & Kark, page 10.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269167814_Israel_Negev_Bedouin_during_the_1948_War_Departure_and_Return

    • Jackdaw on September 10, 2019, 12:34 am

      @tapeworm

      “Saudis and Chinese are buying real estate right and left in London and New York. ”

      The Saudis have a home, Saudi Arabia. The Chinese have a home, China.

      The Jews had to get the approval of the League of Nations to return to their historic homeland. The Jews were invited by the League to return and settle the land.
      Th Jews did so with the approval of the premier Arab leader of that time, Emir Feisal.

      “His Royal Highness the Emir Feisal, representing and acting on behalf of the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz, and Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization, mindful of the racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the Jewish people, and realizing that the surest means of working out the consummation of their natural aspirations is through the closest possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the following:

      — Emir Feisal Ibn al-Hussein al-Hashemi, and the President of the World Zionist Organization, Dr. Chaim Weizmann
      (January 3, 1919)

      • annie on September 10, 2019, 2:13 am

        Emir Feisal was not “the premier Arab leader of that time” in 1919. he was the 3rd son of of Hussein bin Ali, who had proclaimed himself King in October 1916. Feisal was trying to get himself a kingdom in 1919.

        On 23 October 1916 at Hamra in Wadi Safra, Faisal met Captain T. E. Lawrence, a junior British intelligence officer from Cairo. Lawrence, who envisioned an independent post-war Arabian state, sought the right man to lead the Hashemite forces and achieve this.[6] In 1916–18, Faisal headed the Northern Army of the rebellion that confronted the Ottomans in what was to later become western Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria.[7] In 1917, Faisal, desiring an empire for himself instead of conquering one for his father, attempted to negotiate an arrangement with the Ottomans under which he would rule the Ottoman vilayets of Syria and Mosul as an Ottoman vassal.[8] In December 1917 Faisal contacted General Djemal Pasha declaring his willingness to defect to the Ottoman side provided they would give him an empire to rule, saying the Sykes–Picot agreement had disillusioned him in the Allies and he now wanted to work with his fellow Muslims.[9] Only the unwillingness of the Three Pashas to subcontract ruling part of the Ottoman Empire to Faisal kept him loyal to his father when it finally dawned on him that the Ottomans were just trying to divide and conquer the Hashemite forces.[8] In his book The Seven Pillars of Wisdom, Lawrence sought to put the best gloss on Faisal’s double-dealing as it would contradict the image he was seeking to promote of Faisal as a faithful friend of the Allies betrayed by the British and the French, claiming that Faisal was only seeking to divide the “nationalist” and “Islamist” factions in the ruling Committee of Union and Progress (CUP).

        does this sound like “the premier Arab leader of that time” to you? maybe you meant the premier Arab leader at the conference.

      • eljay on September 10, 2019, 7:03 am

        || Jackdaw: … The Saudis have a home, Saudi Arabia. The Chinese have a home, China. … ||

        Jewish citizens of homelands throughout the world have homes in their homelands throughout the world.

        || … The Jews had to get the approval of the League of Nations to return to their historic homeland. … ||

        Geographic Palestine was not and still is not the ancient / historic / eternal / ancestral / forgotten / one true homeland of people all over the world – citizens of homelands throughout the world – who choose to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

      • echinococcus on September 10, 2019, 9:22 am

        Get a lesson from my misadventure, people!

        Never talk to a goddam Zionist. Even when you crush his absurd hallucinations, he’ll come back, as if nothing had happened, forgetting all the discussion and pretending to have missed the point altogether with the shamelessness of a slug. You’ll still have your shoe sticking in the muck.

        For the record, this wasn’t at all about a “homeland” (=Vaterland?) for anyone, or “homelands” for people of the Jewish rite in any of their respective home countries (except the 4% bona fide Jewish Palestinians) but the total irrelevance of real estate ownership to sovereignty.

        Count on a thief to defend his theft.

      • Keith on September 10, 2019, 11:02 am

        ECHINOCOCCUS- “…he’ll come back, as if nothing had happened….”

        Just so! And the Mondoweiss comments section has become inundated with Zionist trolls endlessly regurgitating Zionist talking points and memes while ignoring empirical reality. Continually focusing on isolated instances which may or may not be true (who wants to crosscheck Zionist deception?) in an attempt to divert attention from the big picture and the unambiguous reality of the dispossession of the indigenous inhabitants by (mostly) European invaders/conquerors who continue to mistreat the indigenous inhabitants who they imprison, starve and kill with impunity. The last vestige of blood and soil nationalism defended as Jewish self-determination. Where “truth” is whatever works to Zionist advantage, a useful lie a point of pride for these would be pilpul masters.

      • Jackdaw on September 10, 2019, 12:05 pm

        @Annie

        “..does this sound like “the premier Arab leader of that time” to you? ”

        If Faisel was not, than who was the premier Arab leader at the time?

        Who else was making deals with the British, the Young Turks, and the Zionists?

        Annie?

      • annie on September 11, 2019, 11:46 am

        Who else was making deals with the British, the Young Turks, and the Zionists?

        did you miss this?

        declaring his willingness to defect to the Ottoman side provided they would give him an empire to rule

        or this:

        Faisal, desiring an empire for himself instead of conquering one for his father, attempted to negotiate an arrangement with the Ottomans under which he would rule

        willingness to bow to colonial rulers to get a piece of the pie isn’t necessarily a sign of leadership. leader.

        If Faisel was not, than who was the premier Arab leader at the time?

        His father Sharif Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca, who proclaiming the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire after WW1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein_bin_Ali,_Sharif_of_Mecca

        In 1908, in the aftermath of the Young Turk Revolution, he was appointed Emir of Mecca by Sultan Abdul Hamid II. In 1916, with the promise of British support for Arab independence, he proclaimed the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire, accusing the Committee of Union and Progress of violating tenets of Islam and limiting the power of the sultan-caliph. Shortly after the outbreak of the revolt, Hussein declared himself ‘King of the Arab Countries’. However, his pan-Arab aspirations were not accepted by the Allies, who recognised him only as King of the Hejaz.

        After World War I Hussein refused to ratify the Treaty of Versailles, in protest at the Balfour Declaration and the establishment of British and French mandates in Syria, Iraq, and Palestine. He later refused to sign the Anglo-Hashemite Treaty and thus deprived himself of British support when his kingdom was invaded by Ibn Saud. In March 1924, when the Ottoman Caliphate was abolished,…

      • Jackdaw on September 10, 2019, 12:13 pm

        @tapeworm

        “Never talk to a goddam Zionist”

        Please don’t, beginning today.

        For hundreds of year prior to the late 1800’s, messianic religious Zionists were trekking back their beloved Eretz Yisroel.
        Waves of migrants from Europe and North Africa arrived over the centuries to perform Eretz Yisroel specific mitzvot, and to prepare for the return of Mosiach.

        Where else could you say that they were returning to, but the Jewish homeland?

        Anybody, save echinococcus, should reply to my question.

      • Bumblebye on September 10, 2019, 1:36 pm

        Birdbrain – the Jews who went to Palestine before zionism were *pilgrims* travelling to what they probably thought of as the *birthplace* of their religion. Not their ‘homeland’. Many of them, and their descendants, maintained their links – and those of their children – by registering with the embassies, consuls, or whatever existed, of their countries of origin. They did not ‘nativise’ and become Ottoman citizens because they found advantage in not doing so.

      • Jackdaw on September 10, 2019, 4:59 pm

        @Fumbling Bee

        My forefathers were not pilgrims, they were devout Jews who knew that only by performing mitzvot in Eretz Yisroel could they hasten the return of Mosiach, whose return to earth would be in Jerusalem, not Cleveland.

        Get it, Fumble Bee?

        These religious Zionists brought their children with them on their dangerous trek through Napoleanic war torn Europe.

        They sought to become English or Russian citizens only to escape Ottoman oppression.

        Please don’t tell me who my forefathers were or what they did.
        I’ve read scholarly books and personal family accounts of what happened to them in 19th century Jerusalem.

        Just stop it before you make a complete fool of yourself.

      • Keith on September 10, 2019, 6:16 pm

        JACKDAW- “Waves of migrants from Europe and North Africa arrived over the centuries to perform Eretz Yisroel specific mitzvot, and to prepare for the return of Mosiach.”

        Credit where credit is do, I couldn’t stop laughing at your obvious self-parody. Are you auditioning for the part of the Rabbi in the movie version of Portnoy’s complaint? I mean “Eretz Yisroel” sounds sooo biblical. “Waves of migrants?” The early Zionists had great difficulty recruiting Jews to go to Palestine despite financial aid. “…prepare for the return of the Mosiach?” You are aware that the early founders of Zionism/Israel were mostly atheists, aren’t you? Herzl and Ben Gurion would be rolling on the floor laughing at your nonsense.

      • RoHa on September 11, 2019, 12:06 am

        “Where else could you say that they were returning to, but the Jewish homeland?”

        Since they were migrants from Europe and North Africa, they weren’t returning when they went to Palestine. They hadn’t been there before.

        What do you mean by “Jewish homeland”?

        Palestine wasn’t the land in which these people were born, and brought up, and had their homes while they were young, so that isn’t what you mean. But until you can clearly say what you mean, I can’t answer the rest of the question.

      • echinococcus on September 11, 2019, 9:06 am

        Keith,

        ” I mean “Eretz Yisroel” sounds sooo biblical.”

        How could we miss it? It’s written with the obvious intent to be provocatively Germano-Slavic East-European nationalist. as diametrically opposed to biblical-Jewish-ecumenic. “North Africa” indeed. The Jack$$ is knowingly excluding all non-Ostjidisch Judaism.

        These Z are so unintendedly funny it’s impossible not to watch them.

      • echinococcus on September 11, 2019, 9:19 am

        Some Jack$$ wrote: “They sought to become English or Russian citizens only to escape Ottoman oppression” (speaking of persons of the Jewish religion or persuasion.)

        There you have the measure of the crass, stinking ignorance produced by the Zio-bubble in these 70 years of Zionist inbreeding. Now their own, sheltered-environment schools produced two generations of ignoramuses, there is no gaining back a minimum of the generally available common knowledge that the pre-45 Zionists used to share with humanity.

        That such ignorance can coexist with some basic literacy is already a shock.

      • Mooser on September 11, 2019, 12:35 pm

        “Credit where credit is do, I couldn’t stop laughing at your obvious self-parody.” “Keith”

        And when did “Jackdaw” become so concerned about religion? Here, from his archive, is “Jackdaw’s” ostensible reasons for making Aliyah-oops;

        “I was raised secular, and lived in New York for 55 years before moving to Israel. I made Aliyah for completely secular reasons.

        I know exactly what I’m saying about the demise of American Jewry vis-a-vis, assimilation and intermarriage, because I watched, for over fifty years, my friends and family give up Judaism. I gave up on traditional Judaism.

        I bear none of my friends and family any malice.
        I love them all and I respect their freedom to choose their individual lifestyles with their respective partners.

        That doesn’t change the fact that they sold out their religion and its traditions.” “Jackdaw”

        Makes a lot of sense, don’t it? “Completely secular reason”? Gee, I once left a US state for “completely secular reasons.”

      • Mooser on September 11, 2019, 12:59 pm

        “And the Mondoweiss comments section has become inundated with Zionist trolls endlessly regurgitating Zionist talking points…”

        “Keith”, don’t worry. If you can see through the Zionist trolls, don’t you think everybody else can?

      • MHughes976 on September 11, 2019, 4:15 pm

        The term ‘Land of Israel’ has no real Biblical authority. It was Canaan or Palestine. The children of Israel claimed an ‘inheritance’ there on the strength of a divine mandate making their title different in quality from that of anyone else.

  14. anon on September 8, 2019, 10:40 am

    Salman Abu Sitta, your article touches my heart.
    The natural law of Karma has not been overturned nor cancelled.
    “The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceeding fine.”
    Justice will be delivered at a time of God’s choosing.

    • Jackdaw on September 8, 2019, 5:17 pm

      @anon

      Most of the Negev was allotted to the Zionists, pursuant to the Partition Resolution of 1947.

      Salman’s father chose to reject Zionist sovereignty over the Negev, and joined an armed resistance against the Zionists.

      He bought landmines, and rifles and automatic rifles to Al Ma’in to arm his clan in order to resist. Salman’s father threw his lot in with the Egyptian army and the Muslim Brothers and the Abu Sitta clan fought the Zionists in pitched battles.

      Salman’s father chose miserably, and that’s why his house was blown up, and that’s why his clan was exiled to Gaza.

      He gambled and lost.
      What’s so touching about that?

      • echinococcus on September 8, 2019, 6:02 pm

        Jack$$

        “Partition Resolution” was illegal and anyway had no force of law, except being a non-obligatory recommendation by criminal colonial and imperial powers.

        Resisting the invader by all means available is the imprescribable right of the local populations (and their duty, according to most local laws.)

        Conquest is a crime against humanity as per the Nuremberg laws, and you are at least an accessory, as a propagandist.

      • CigarGod on September 8, 2019, 8:21 pm

        Ha!
        There is no “gamble” in a game that is stacked.

      • Jackdaw on September 9, 2019, 12:55 am

        @tapeworm

        “Resisting the invader by all means available is the imprescribable right of the local populations (and their duty, according to most local laws.)”

        You make it sound like the Jews were riding into Palestine on horseback, or landing in a sea-air assault.

        This was 1948, and the Zionist Jews had begun arriving in the region in the 1880’s, by which time, Jerusalem was already a Jewish majority city on account of religious Zionist migration in the early 1800’s.

        Right up until 1948, the Jews had been buying land from the Negev Bedouin and settling on that land.

        How is a native Palestinian Jew, an ‘invader’?
        How is a Jew you’ve sold land to, an ‘invader’?

        *tapeworm heads for the high grass*

      • Jackdaw on September 9, 2019, 1:03 am

        @Cigars

        Stacked?
        The Egyptian Army attacked with tanks and airplanes.
        The Zionist defenders of the Northern Negev kibbutzim had nothing to defend themselves and were way outnumbered in terms of men and weapons.

        ‘Stacked’?
        Please explain yourself, and bring some facts along if you can.

      • echinococcus on September 9, 2019, 11:27 am

        The genius is back:

        “You make it sound like the Jews were riding into Palestine on horseback, or landing in a sea-air assault.”

        It was an assault by sea, land and air. Correct.

        “This was 1948, and the Zionist Jews had begun arriving in the region in the 1880’s”

        Correct, and in 1897 they officially announced their intention of colonial conquest and takeover of the sovereignty from the rightful owners, making them into hostile, ejectable invaders starting with the Basle Congress, 1897.

        “Right up until 1948, the Jews had been buying land from the Negev Bedouin and settling on that land”

        Yarright. Saudis and Chinese are buying real estate right and left in London and New York. Which are, of course, now officially Chinese and/or Saudi territory, under Saudi laws. Only a genius can confuse land ownership with territorial sovereignty. Besides, Jewish-owned land was only a minuscule fraction until 1948.

        “How is a native Palestinian Jew, an ‘invader’?”
        A Palestinian of the Jewish persuasion is a customary inhabitant of Palestine as of 1897. Religion is irrelevant as long as they are not invaders. All incoming Zionist alien are invaders (or offspring), starting 1897.

        “How is a Jew you’ve sold land to, an ‘invader’?”
        An invader is an invader, no matter his religion. Nobody gives a flying buck about his religion.

  15. CigarGod on September 9, 2019, 10:29 am

    Ok Jack,
    Read, think, comprehend.
    The oppostion wasn’t even in the room when the game was set.
    Now you want to condemn the Sitta family for flipping the crooked table over.

    • Jackdaw on September 9, 2019, 11:34 am

      I’m not condemning the Sitta’s for backing the losing side. How else do you have a horse race?

      I do wish he’d be more honest about the shortcomings of his community and I also wish he wouldn’t play the victim so much.

      Hardly a condemnation.

      BTW, when the Abu Sitta clan fell from grace, they landed on their feet. How many other displaced Bedouin are still living in poverty in Gaza?

      • CigarGod on September 10, 2019, 12:18 pm

        You keep wandering off point Jack.
        Will your own words bring you back?

        “Most of the Negev was allotted to the Zionists, pursuant to the Partition Resolution of 1947.

        Salman’s father chose to reject Zionist sovereignty over the Negev, and joined an armed resistance against the Zionists.”

        Thanks for making my “stacked” argument.

  16. Ossinev on September 9, 2019, 10:31 am

    @Jackdaw
    “How is a native Palestinian Jew, an ‘invader’?”

    Wow birdie you have just admitted that Palestinians are a people and that Palestine does exist.
    Totally contrary to the Zio script. Perhaps a spell of Hasbara reprogramming is called for .

    • Jackdaw on September 9, 2019, 11:36 am

      No Ossified.

      I am only speaking to you in the only language you understand. If I speak French to you, it doesn’t make me a Frenchman.

      BTW. How about answering my question instead of distracting?

  17. justice48 on September 10, 2019, 1:04 pm

    There is yet another bubble to burst. There is NO Jewish synagogue in Al Ma’in.
    The alleged synagogue in the above comments is really a Byzantine church on Al Ma’in land, known to people there for ages. Al Ma’in mosaic is one several in the area, which are identical in bird, animal and plant motif and inscriptions. The nearest one to Al Ma’in mosaic in Tel Jemma (aka Um Jerrar), 3 km away to the north. It was described in text and drawing by Lt F M Drake RE in PEF Quarterly, 1918, pp 122-124.
    Another one, 3 km south east of Al Ma’in, is the mosaic at Tel Al Far’aa, discovered by the Australians in 1917. A survey of similar Byzantine mosaics in the area is reported in “Antiquities on the Desert Coast between Egypt and Palestine”, The Geographic Journal, Vol 55, No 6 ( June 1920), pp 464- 467.
    On the eastern boundary of Al Ma’in land, where Kibbutz Magen now stands, there is a Muslim shrine by the name of Sheikh Nuran. As it was the habit of Palestinians when they changed religion from Christianity to Islam, they kept the shrine and gave it a new name. This shrine was a Byzantine monastery according to the Austro-Hungarian scholar Alois Musil who visited the place ca 1900. He believes it was the likely abode of St Hilarion, the founder of Palestinian monasticism, born 261 AD, south of Gaza.
    Southern Palestine has many such Byzantine churches, even in areas way north of Al Ma’in.. Haaretz reported finding one near the destroyed village of Iraq Al Manshiya, (Nir Hasson, Jan 22, 2014).
    So what brought a synagogue to a predominantly 6th century Christian Palestinian region. The answer is deception and forgery.
    When the settlers occupied Al Ma’in and built a new road, they found it. When the mosaic was discovered, its corner was missing. Some one thought it is best to make it a synagogue of it by adding Menorah at the missing corner, in spite of a clearly Byzantine motif and location. The great news was announced by Hana Levi Julia of Arutz Sheva (Israel National News) on 30 March 2009, sixty years after the discovery. A visitor could examine the site and see that the color, texture, type of Menorah stones patently different from the rest, in spite of “good restoration”.
    There is no explanation for the alleged appearance of a synagogue in the middle of Christian Palestinian region other the desperate Zionist desire for legitimacy.

    • RoHa on September 11, 2019, 12:11 am

      Justice48, I’m pretty sure that pointing out Zionist lies, deception, and forgery is anti-Semitic.

      Prepare to lose your job, your reputation, and your line of credit at the bottle shop.

    • Jackdaw on September 11, 2019, 1:01 am

      @justice

      **Spoiler alert. Justice is about to eat crow.**

      “There is NO Jewish synagogue in Al Ma’in.”

      The Aussies found a mosaic in 1917, and carted it away to a museum in Australia.

      The Maon/Nirim synagogue was not discovered until 1957, and remains in situ.

      https://books.google.co.il/books?id=VdR0CgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Maon+synagogue+nirim+coastal&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmtOXa_MfkAhWDCOwKHdmTBVcQ6AEIPDAD#v=onepage&q=Maon%20gaza%20nirim%20&f=false

      http://synagogues.kinneret.ac.il/synagogues/maon-nirim/

      Well. It’s amateur night at the Mondoweiss Theatre, and they’re serving fried crow and crow pie at the concession stand.

      Crow, or is that Jackdaw?

      • Jackdaw on September 11, 2019, 1:48 am

        @injustice

        Let the brainiacs at Mondoweiss decide whether the menorah is a ‘forgery’.

        BTW, where is your proof it’s not a synagogue ?
        Start with the epigraphic evidence. Show how Maon-Nirim synagogue is dissimilar from the contemporaneous Gaza synagogue . Don’t forget to discuss the amulets that were discovered and how the resemble synagogue amulets discovered at Beit Alfa.
        BTW, where is the Christian iconography? Loaves, fish, etc.

        https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiK6MD2h8jkAhXF8uAKHVM5ASIQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdbs.bh.org.il%2Fimage%2Fmosaic-floor-maon-synagogue-5th-6th-century&psig=AOvVaw2sUz2G8itcyFWV_mxiJLQi&ust=1568266959518384

      • annie on September 11, 2019, 8:51 am

        BTW, where is the Christian iconography?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maon_Synagogue

        At the bottom of the mosaic floor is an amphora flanked by a pair of peacocks. A vine flows out of the amphora, forming loops, in each loop is a bird, animal, fruit, or a depiction of steps in the wine making process. The design is so similar to the mosaics in the church floor at nearby Shallal that they are thought to have been designed by the same artist. …..

        The synagogue is built on the basilica plan. The mosaic is in the central area, the two side aisles were paved with stone. The ceiling was made of wooden beams and clay.[2]

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_symbolism#Peacock

        Ancient Greeks believed that the flesh of peafowl did not decay after death, and so it became a symbol of immortality. This symbolism was adopted by early Christianity, and thus many early Christian paintings and mosaics show the peacock. The peacock is still used in the Easter season especially in the east.[22] The “eyes” in the peacock’s tail feathers symbolise the all-seeing God and – in some interpretations – the Church. A peacock drinking from a vase is used as a symbol of a Christian believer drinking from the waters of eternal life.

      • annie on September 11, 2019, 9:14 am

        this is interesting https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/travel/israel-s-multifaceted-mosaics-1.5267823

        When the first synagogue mosaic in the country was discovered (now on display at Beit Alpha National Park) in the 1920s, scholars were amazed to discover that it was full of human and animal images – ostensibly prohibited by the Second Commandment. But scholars now tell us that Jewish thought of the day allowed such depictions – as long as they were not going to be worshipped. Also, these images are part of a tradition stretching across the region in the Byzantine period, which spanned the fourth–seventh centuries.

        At the base of the page is a photograph from the mosaic floor of the Church of St. Nilus, in Mampsis. a bird drinking from a cup.

      • Jackdaw on September 11, 2019, 9:32 am

        The Gaza synagogue mosaic is so similar to the Maor-Nalim Jewish synagogue mosaic, that it is believed that the same craftsmen made both mosaics. Are you disputing whether the Gaza synagogue is Jewish too?
        Well, are you?

        BTW, peacocks appear on other ancient Jewish mosaics too.
        Lovely birds, aren’t they?

        What are etrogim, a shofar and a lulav doing in a Christian mosaic?
        And that pesky menorah! Ugh.

        Surely someone forged it and put it dead center in the mosaic.
        Annie. It looks forged, right?

        Proof of forgery, please.

      • annie on September 11, 2019, 10:07 am

        peacocks appear on other ancient Jewish mosaics too.

        interesting. in my googling i found this “”PEACOCK” MOSAIC FROM BEIT SHE’AN”: https://www.israelmint.com/?section=45835&product=4329&lineItem=2882

        The archeologists discovered a structure with a central room and two floor mosaics, one on top of the other, one from the beginning of the Byzantine period (4th century), and one from the middle of the 6th century. It is believed that the structure served as a Christian prayer room for people visiting the graveyard.

        The mosaic floor discovered is one of the most prestigious and beautiful floors found, with a plaited acanthus plant around its border. In the corners of the border, bearded heads represent the ocean, the big river that surrounds the earth in Greek mythology, and a non-bearded head represents the winds of the heavens (another such head in the opposite corner has seemingly not been preserved). Within the bordered mosaic, artists created an impressive grape design, within which were depictions of agricultural activity and animals. In the center of the lowest row of the mosaic, is a depiction of a vessel out of which vine leaves flow. Two majestic peacocks stand on either side of the vessel, looking towards it. The peacock shown in the fragment of the mosaic on the medal is the peacock from the left-hand-side, standing firmly and proudly, decorated with colorful feathers.

        i’ve been doing some googling https://soc.culture.jewish.moderated.narkive.com/8JftbLew/the-peacock

        Does the peacock have any special symbolism in Judaism? I can’t find
        anything very helpful now that I look, but I am sure I have encountered
        it in that context.

        I’m speaking of biblical Judaism particularly – the peacock appears a
        few times in the scriptures, but not with really important role so far
        as I can tell.

        here are the answers provided:

        1. Nope
        2. It’s a nonkosher bird. There’s a list of nonkosher birds in the Torah, and
        a word we associate with the peacock is on the list.
        3.Isn’t there a midrash about the peacock wandering around, showing his
        feathers, and crowing that he was the most beautiful bird in the world.
        Solomon, seeing this, had the peacock’s feet changed to the current
        ugly ones. The peacock saw his feet, and lost his beautiful voice, and
        to this day has a mournful crow because of the ugliness of his feet.

        here i found a reference to “the golden peacock” but it’s limited to yiddish folklore. “the mythical symbol of Yiddish literature and song” http://www.jewishfolksongs.com/en/golden-peacock

        The Jewish “goldene pave” may possibly have descended from these antiquities – we don’t know (see some amusing anecdotes about the origins of folksongs here). We first hear of the mythical bird in two variants of Yiddish folksongs about an unhappy bride, banished from her parents’ home and sequestered in her mother-in-law’s domain. In Beregovsky’s collection of Jewish Folksongs (1938), the girl turns herself into a golden peacock and flies to her parents’ home; this is reminiscent of European ballads on the theme of the cruel mother-in-law. In Ginzburg & Marek’s anthology, Jewish Folksongs in Russia, 1901, the golden peacock, able to fly the impossible distance between the young bride and her parental home, functions as a messenger between the girl and her family. Russian folklorist Zinoviy Kiselgof (1878-1939) interpreted the folksong metaphorically: “‘Di gilderne pave’ [the golden peacock] is an allegorical symbol of the Jewish nation and ‘Di gilderne feder’ [the golden feather] means our Holy teaching, the Torah. ‘Shver un shvigers kest’ [board with parents-in-law] is the existence in Golus [Exile], i.e., far from mother’s house.” (The reference in both variants to a lost feather is reminiscent of what happened to Pegasus, the mythical winged horse and inspiration of the Muses, when he was turned into a constellation). The loneliness of the new bride is a common theme in many traditional cultures. Here, for example, is a similarly-motivated Yemenite song, “Abdah”, sung by a new bride at the pre-nuptial henna ceremony: “Dear mother, I wish I were a bird that spreads her wings and flies to your doorstep.” 2

        anyway jack, i look forward to you enlightening us about the ancient judaic symbolism of the peacock.

      • gamal on September 11, 2019, 10:33 am

        From Sermon 165 naghul balagha so by Ali ibni abi talib,

        “The most amazing among them in its creation is the peacock, which Allah has created in the most symmetrical dimensions, and arranged its hues in the best arrangement with wings whose ends are inter-leaved together and whose tail is long. When it moves to its female it spreads out its folded tail and raises it up so as to cast a shade over its head, as if it were the sail of a boat being pulled by the sailor. It feels proud of its colours and swaggers with its movements. It copulates like the cocks. It leaps (on the female) for fecundation like lustful energetic men at the time of fighting.

        وَمِنْ أَعْجَبِهَا خَلْقاً الطَّاوُوسُ، الَّذِي أَقَامَهُ فِي أَحْكَمِ تَعْدِيل، وَنَضَّدَ أَلْوَانَهُ فِي أَحْسَنِ تَنْضِيد، بِجَنَاح أَشْرَجَ قَصَبَهُ، وَذَنَب أَطَالَ مَسْحَبَهُ. إذَا دَرَجَ إلَى الاْنْثَى نَشَرَهُ مِنْ طَيِّهِ، وَسَمَا بِهِ مُطِلاًّ عَلَى رَأْسِهِ كَأَنَّهُ قِلْعُ دَارِيّ عَنَجَهُ نُوتِيُّهُ.

        يَخْتَالُ بِأَلْوَانِهِ، وَيَمِيسُ بِزَيَفَانِهِ، يُفْضِي كَإفْضَاءِ الدِّيَكَةِ، وَيَؤُرُّ بِمَلاَقِحِهِ أَرَّ الْفُحُولِ الْمُغْتَلِمَةِ لِلضِّرَابِ

        I am telling you all this from observation, unlike he who narrates on the basis of weak authority, as for example, the belief of some people that it fecundates the female by a tear which flows from its eyes and when it stops on the edges of the eyelids the female swallows it and lays its eggs thereby and not through fecundation by a male other than by means of this flowing tear. Even if they say this, it would be no amazing than (what they say about) the mutual feeding of the crows (for fecundation).

        You would imagine its feathers to be sticks made of silvers and the wonderful circles and sun-shaped feathers growing thereon to be of pure gold and pieces of green emerald. If you likened them to anything growing on land, you would say that it is a bouquet of flowers collected during every spring. If you likened them to cloths, they would be like printed apparels or amazing variegated cloths of Yemen. If you likened them to ornaments then they would be like gems of different colour with studded silver.

        أُحِيلُكَ مِنْ ذلِكَ عَلَى مُعَايَنَة، لاَ كَمَنْ يُحِيلُ عَلى ضَعِيف إسْنَادُهُ، وَلَوْ كَانَ كَزَعْمِ مَنْ يَزْعُمُ أَنَّهُ يُلْقِحُ بِدَمْعَة تَسْفَحُهَا مَدَامِعُهُ، فَتَقِفُ في ضَفَّتَي جُفُونِهِ، وأَنَّ أُنْثَاهُ تَطْعَمُ ذلِكَ، ثُمَّ تَبِيضُ لاَ مِنْ لِقَاحِ فَحْل سِوَى الدَّمْعِ الْمُنبَجِسِ، لَمَا كَانَ ذلِكَ بَأَعْجَبَ مِنْ مُطَاعَمَةِ الْغُرَابِ!. تَخَالُ قَصَبَهُ مَدَارِىَ مِنْ فِضَّة، وَمَا أُنْبِتَ عَلَيْهَا مِنْ عَجِيبِ دَارَاتِهِ وَشُمُوسِهِ خَالِصَ الْعِقْيَانِ، وَفِلَذَ الزَّبَرْجَدِ. فَإنْ شَبَّهْتَهُ بِمَا أَنْبَتَتِ الاْرْضُ قُلْتَ: جَنِىٌّ جُنِىَ مِنْ زَهْرَةِ كُلِّ رَبِيع، وَإنْ ضَاهَيْتَهُ بِالْملابِسِ فَهُوَ كَمَوْشِىِّ الْحُلَلِ أَوْ كَمُونِقِ عَصْبِ الَيمَنِ، وَإنْ شَاكَلْتَهُ بِالْحُلِيِّ فَهُوَ كَفُصُوص ذَاتِ أَلْوَان، قَدْ نُطِّقَتْ بِاللُّجَيْنِ الْمُكَلَّلِ .

        The peacock walks with vanity and pride, and throws open its tail and wings and laughs admiring the handsomeness of its dress and the hues of its necklace of gems. But when it casts its glance at its legs it cries loudly with a voice which indicates its call for help and displays its true grief, because its legs are thin like the legs of Indo-Persian cross-bred cocks.

        At the end of its shin there is a thin thorn and on the crown of its head there is a bunch of green variegated feathers. Its neck begins in the shape of a goblet and its stretch up to its belly is like the hair-dye of Yemen in colour or like silk cloth put on a polished mirror which looks as if it has been covered with a black veil, except that on account of its excessive lustre and extreme brightness it appears that a lush green colour has been mixed with it.

        Along the openings of its ears there is a line of shining bright daisy colour like the thin end of a pen. Whiteness shines on the black background. There is hardly a hue from which it has not taken a bit and improved it further by regular polish, lustre, silken brightness and brilliance. It is therefore like scattered blossoms which have not been seasoned by the rains of spring or the sun of the summer.”

        A. I. A Talib (Hazrat) 6/7th century times

        but in Vajrayana the Crow is compared disparagingly to the Peacock as in the poison forest while the peacock can consume poison and suffer no harm but thrives on it (klesas) if the crow tries the same he must surely perish, and Palden lhamo’s parasol is made of peacock feathers, Peacocks…. Vajrayana I’d say …..also Tere Bin in Hindi means “Without You”, wasn’t Machig Labdron, Empress of the Karma Kagyu, called the peahen but I forget why.

      • Jackdaw on September 11, 2019, 11:41 am

        @Annie

        Peacocks in Caesaria ‘Bird Mosaic’, and at Ein Gedi synagogue.

        But more to the point, stop with your distractions, and please address the more important questions, which are:

        What are etrogim, a shofar and a lulav doing in a Christian mosaic?
        And that pesky menorah! Ugh.

        Surely someone forged it and put it dead center in the mosaic, so where’s the proof that it’s a forgery. Who even said it was a forgery, ‘Justice’?

        Justice and who else?

      • annie on September 11, 2019, 12:46 pm

        Caesaria ‘Bird Mosaic’: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Mosaic_(Caesarea)

        The mosaic floor belongs to a Byzantine palace that was built in the end of the 6th century or beginning of the 7th century, and which lay outside the walls of ancient Caesarea. The floor covered the central courtyard of the palace, which was led to by a portico on the west side. Surrounding it was a colonnade, rooms, and additional courtyards with mosaic floors. The built area of the palace was about 1500 square meters, and the entire settlement covered about 3 dunams. It belonged to a wealthy Christian family, but no indications of its identity have been found. The building had an additional story which also had mosaic floors, parts of which collapsed when the palace was destroyed by fire, apparently during the Arab conquest in 640. The wooden beams of the second floor were burned, and parts of its mosaic were found on the floor of the first story.

        the word “Jewish” is not even mentioned on the page.

        What are etrogim, a shofar and a lulav doing in a Christian mosaic?
        And that pesky menorah! Ugh.

        i don’t really know jack, but the synagogue doesn’t “remain in situ”.

        the condition of the mosaic deteriorated in recent years as a result of the unsuitable conditions in which the piece was kept, and a lack of maintenance.

        In 2006, it was removed from the site and transferred for treatment to the conservation laboratories at the Rockefeller Museum in Jerusalem.

        The conservation work on the mosaic and the archaeological remains of the ancient synagogue was carried out by a team of mosaic conservators with the Conservation Department of the Israel Antiquities Authority.

        http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130674

        from your wiki link:

        The synagogue and its mosaic floor were discovered during the construction of a road in 1957. The mosaic was damaged, but the undamaged segment was preserved by a salvage excavation. After its discovery, the mosaic was neglected, causing deterioration. Restoration work began in 2006

        it appears the damages section wasn’t preserved but was reconstructed. and, if justice48’s claims are true

        “A visitor could examine the site and see that the color, texture, type of Menorah stones patently different from the rest, in spite of “good restoration”.”

        it sounds as though the damaged part that wasn’t preserved, is the part with the menorah. it also says “An identical floor was found in the ancient synagogue in Gaza”, which begs the question which came first? a much admired mosaic in a Byzantine church, and the artisan who designed it, could have been much admired and built a replica in gaza for a synagogue adding jewish features. hence, the modern day restorers could have modeled the missing features after the synagogue in gaza. or who knows really? but i think justice48’s question is worth considering: what brought a synagogue to a predominantly 6th century Christian Palestinian region?

        i think it’s fair to question settler renovations that are turned into israali national tourists sites.

      • Mooser on September 11, 2019, 12:46 pm

        .” It’s a nonkosher bird. There’s a list of nonkosher birds in the Torah, and
        a word we associate with the peacock is on the list”

        This isn’t fair! Nobody told me! I thought a peacock was just an overdressed chicken.

      • Jackdaw on September 11, 2019, 1:21 pm

        @Annie

        Rather than tangentially support Justice’s unsupported and baseless claim of forgery, why don’t you read what the archeologists have said about the Ma’on synagogue (and nearby Gaza
        synagogue).

        For starters, try, Ancient Synagogues of Southern Palestine, 300-800 C.E.: Living on the Edge’, by Steven H. Werlin.

        https://books.google.co.il/books?id=VdR0CgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Maon+synagogue+nirim+coastal&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmtOXa_MfkAhWDCOwKHdmTBVcQ6AEIPDAD#v=onepage&q&f=false

        This is one of many archeological reports on the Ma’on site. See the other link I’d provided listing the other reports.

        Could this be a part of a vast conspiracy?
        How many other ancient mosaics have the Zionists forged?

        BTW, has Justice actually ever seen this mosaic with his own eyes?

        I am going to drive down there and see for myself.
        Seeing is believing .

      • eljay on September 11, 2019, 1:28 pm

        || Jackdaw: stop with your distractions … ||

        Yes, Jackdaw, please do.

        Jewish is a religion-based identity. The presence of synagogues in geographic Palestine doesn’t:
        – transform Jewish citizens of homelands all over the world into Ancient Israelites;
        – transform geographic Palestine into the ancient / ancestral / historic / lost / one true homeland of every Jewish citizen of every homeland in the world;
        – grant to Jewish people the “right” to be supremacists, to have a supremacist state or to do “necessary evil” unto others.

      • MHughes976 on September 11, 2019, 4:20 pm

        The Wikipedia article, for what that is worth, seems to suggest that the mosaic belonged to a villa, not to a place of worship. However, it is clear enough that there was both a Jewish and a non-Jewish population in the Palestine of those days. See Oxford History of the Biblical World, p.436.

      • Jackdaw on September 12, 2019, 12:40 am

        @MHughes

        Thank you for your consistent effort to be fair-minded.

        The Maon-Nirim synagogue building was religious.
        It had a ‘bimah’, a place where the Torah scroll was housed, and was oriented toward Jerusalem. Inscriptions name three donors, who built the structure for the benefit of the community.

        Nineteen ‘Jewish magic’ amulets were excavated from the area where the Torah scroll was kept.
        The mosaic lacks human iconography, but represents flora and fauna and religious symbols like the menorah, lulav, etrog and shofar.

        Justice48 can’t stomach the fact that this was a synagogue and fabricated a fable that the menorah image in the mosaic was fabricated by unscrupulous Zionists.
        Yet, not ten miles away, there is another, contemporaneous, nearly identical, Jewish synagogue in Gaza, this one with a mosaic showing King David playing his lyre.

        Justice makes his claim without a shred of proof. This outlandish claim flies in the face of sixty years of scientific research in the field of archeology.

        For some reason, Annie is running interference for Justice, while the rest of Mondoweiss condones Justice’s ugly effort to delegitimize the Jewish presence in the Negev, and to tarnish the reputation of half dozen field archeologists and scholars.

        Sad, sad, sad.

      • MHughes976 on September 12, 2019, 1:47 pm

        Thanks for kind word, Jackdaw. On the question of the nature of the mosaic you persuade me.

      • Mooser on September 12, 2019, 5:34 pm

        “At the bottom of the mosaic floor is an amphora flanked by a pair of peacocks.”

        Yes, and the peacocks are grey, have big flappy ears and always carry a trunk.

  18. Jackdaw on September 11, 2019, 2:35 pm

    @eljay

    Geographic ‘Palestine’ had been the Roman province of Judea, before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and put the Jews, one million maybe, to the knife. The Romans instituted the name change.

    Judea first, Palestine second.
    Got it?

    The synagogues at Ma’on and Gaza were lavish things that cost some private donors a lot of gold dinari to build.

    Obviously, there was a thriving Jewish community at these sites, and these communities anticipated remaining in these towns and having a viable future there.

    Then along come the Muslim invaders from Arabia, who occupied the land and destroyed these thriving coastal towns out of fear that the Byzantine navy would come back and try to re-conquer the land.

    • eljay on September 11, 2019, 3:20 pm

      || Jackdaw: … Got it? … ||

      Yes, I completely understand that the presence of synagogues in geographic Palestine doesn’t:
      – transform Jewish citizens of homelands all over the world into Ancient Israelites;
      – transform geographic Palestine into the ancient / ancestral / historic / lost / one true homeland of every Jewish citizen of every homeland in the world;
      – grant to Jewish people the “right” to be supremacists, to have a supremacist state or to do “necessary evil” unto others.

      Unfortunately you and every other Zionist have yet to get it.

      • Mooser on September 11, 2019, 3:43 pm

        “Unfortunately you and every other Zionist have yet to get it.”

        That’s because “Jacdaw” has “secular reasons” for his religious Zionism!

      • Jackdaw on September 11, 2019, 5:07 pm

        @eljay

        That’s right.
        Seven million clueless Israeli Jews.

        Eljay. You are our Moses.
        Take us out of the wilderness.

      • RoHa on September 11, 2019, 9:19 pm

        Good thinking, Jackdaw.

        The Israelis could do a lot worse than follow Eljay’s lead.

        Unfortunately, they will do a lot worse.

      • eljay on September 12, 2019, 6:02 am

        || Jackdaw: @eljay

        That’s right.
        Seven million clueless Israeli Jews. … ||

        We both know that not all Jewish Israelis are Zionist, yet you dishonestly and anti-Semitically conflate all Jewish Israelis with Zionism.

        I’d ask you if you have any shame but it’s clear that you do not.

      • echinococcus on September 12, 2019, 2:19 pm

        Eljay says: “We both know that not all Jewish Israelis are Zionist”.

        Don’t pull the pill, LJ. I’d say it’s mighty close to all “Jewish” “Israelis” being Zionist. I see now that Mr Weiss and his crew joined you in an effort to make the sad reality go away by censoring this remark.

        (or were they perhaps offended by the observation “nobody (and no society) is perfect, after all”?).

      • Mooser on September 12, 2019, 5:28 pm

        “Seven million clueless Israeli Jews.”

        Seven million! Wow, that’s almost enough people to fill a fair-sized city.

      • oldgeezer on September 15, 2019, 8:07 pm

        @jackdaw

        I’m on your side. The suggestion their is 7 million clueless in Israel is silly. The settlers are terrorists and criminals. The terrorists and criminals are supported by the majority of Israeli society despite their criminality and it benefits them.

        Nope not clueless. Just venal.

    • Mooser on September 11, 2019, 3:39 pm

      Gee, you know, if I was a Zionist, I would assume that Mondo would only publish Zionist comments which are easily refuted, and in addition, show the ignorance, arrogance, cruelty and racism of the Zionists.
      But then I realized that Mondo didn’t need to be too selective about it.

    • Mooser on September 11, 2019, 3:46 pm

      “The synagogues at Ma’on and Gaza were lavish things that cost some private donors a lot of gold dinari to build.”

      But the buildings were repossessed and re-purposed when the congregation failed to pay the mortgage.

    • echinococcus on September 11, 2019, 6:04 pm

      What did I just write about the crass ignorance implanted in the last 2 generations of Zionists by their protected environment?

      One more example here, again by the Jack***, of total ignorance of history, the Classics, short, everything basic (even to a degree much worse than the average American, fercryinoutloud.) The main difference between Zionists and other ignoramuses is, of course, the shameless exhibition of the totally barbarian ones: the Zionists.

      • Jackdaw on September 12, 2019, 12:52 am

        ““Never talk to a goddam Zionist”. ”

        I’m neither reading nor responding to ecchinosis ever again.
        I’m just scrolling past all future comments of his.

      • echinococcus on September 12, 2019, 10:41 am

        Our Jack seems to be the archetypal Good Zionist.
        Ignoring problems is the best way to solve them. By “scrolling past” comments, he’ll miraculously acquire basic general knowledge outside his bubble.

      • Mooser on September 12, 2019, 5:17 pm

        “I’m neither reading nor responding to ecchinosis ever again.” “Jackdaw”

        This is right out of “Pinafore” . Whatsamatter, did “Echin” use a big, big D?
        Gonna send him to his cabin with celerity, as the consequence of ill-advised asperity?

      • echinococcus on September 12, 2019, 10:55 pm

        Nobody called me Ribald up to this day, Mooser.

      • Mooser on September 13, 2019, 12:11 pm

        “Nobody called me Ribald up to this day, Mooser.”

        No, in the all commenter production of Pinafore I’ve got you down for “Mrs. Cripps”:

        “Things are seldom what they seem,
        Skim milk masquerades as cream;
        Highlows pass as patent leathers;
        Jackdaws strut in peacock’s feathers.”

        And very true, so they do.

    • RoHa on September 11, 2019, 9:04 pm

      Can I check that I’ve got the story straight?

      The wicked Romans, who never did anything for the Jews, responded to the Jewish rebellion by slaughtering and/or expelling them all from Palestine.

      Then the Jews, who weren’t there any more, and were, no doubt, terribly oppressed as well, built lots of synagogues in the area, and were able to afford first rate mosaic artists to decorate the floors.

      This was done some 1500 years ago.

      And this somehow gives a bunch of modern Europeans and Americans sole right of sovereignty over the territory, and the right to slaughter and dispossess the people who were established residents.

      Is that it?

      • Jackdaw on September 12, 2019, 12:24 am

        No, your narrative is complete rubbish.
        Worse, you know it’s rubbish.

      • Mooser on September 12, 2019, 5:21 pm

        “No, your narrative is complete rubbish.”

        No, it’s pretty much what everybody hears you saying, “Jackdaw”. Why, did you think you were projecting or ‘communicating’ anything else?

      • gamal on September 12, 2019, 6:56 pm

        “Worse, you know it’s rubbish”

        that is projection itself right there, we treat projection with Prince Jazzbo Ital Corner, usually Ital Corner helps. “one step forward none step backward….ital round the corner ital round der..”

        https://youtu.be/wQyz2YHpL5o

      • RoHa on September 12, 2019, 7:07 pm

        Thank you, Jackdaw.

        The next time I hear or see someone say that the Romans expelled the Jews from Palestine, and that the Jews were oppressed thereafter, I can reply, ” No, that’s complete rubbish.”

        And when someone suggests that the presence of ancient Jews in Palestine gives modern Jews a right to a state there, I can reply, “That’s rubbish. Jackdaw says so.”

  19. Jackdaw on September 13, 2019, 1:27 am

    @RoHa

    According to Josephus, the Romans killed 1,000,000 Jews during the revolt, and carried off 90,000 as slaves.

    Many thousands of Jews remained in Eretz Yisroel, mostly in the North.
    Five hundred years later, circa 500 C.E., Jews were in Gaza and the Northern Negev.

    Over the years, the Jewish population of Rome, descended from slaves, freemen and converts, increased until these Jews began migrating North, to France. From France into the Rhineland, to Poland, etc.

    Rubbish?

    • eljay on September 13, 2019, 9:48 am

      || Jackdaw: … According to Josephus, the Romans killed 1,000,000 Jews during the revolt, and carried off 90,000 as slaves.

      Many thousands of Jews remained in Eretz Yisroel, mostly in the North.
      Five hundred years later, circa 500 C.E., Jews were in Gaza and the Northern Negev.

      Over the years, the Jewish population of Rome, descended from slaves, freemen and converts, increased until these Jews began migrating North, to France. From France into the Rhineland, to Poland, etc.

      Rubbish? ||

      On the contrary: It is an excellent explanation of why “the Jews” – that is, people in and of homelands all over the world who have chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish – have no valid reason or moral right:
      – to steal, occupy and colonize geographic Palestine;
      – to establish in as much as possible of it a religion-supremacist state for themselves; or
      – to do “necessary evil” (incl. terrorism, ethnic cleansing, oppression, torture and murder) unto others.

      Thanks, Jackdaw. You’ve been very helpful.

      • Jackdaw on September 13, 2019, 1:33 pm

        “steal, occupy and colonize geographic Palestine”

        ???

        The Zionists began settling in Eretz Yisroel while it was Ottoman.

        More Zionists were invited to settle in their historic ‘homeland’ after the League of Nations duly deliberated and invited settlement. For the Arabs part, the League created for the Arabs the States of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.

        The Jewish population of Eretz Yisroel swelled to one third, before the land was engulfed in a civil war, which the Arabs began and which the Jews finished. Through out the entire period of the Mandate, 30 years, the Arabs legally sold their lands to the Jews for pound sterling.

        “steal, occupy and colonize geographic Palestine”
        ?????

      • eljay on September 13, 2019, 3:17 pm

        || Jackdaw: “steal, occupy and colonize geographic Palestine” … ||

        Correct.

        || … The Zionists began settling in Eretz Yisroel while it was Ottoman. … ||

        Nothing wrong with Jewish foreigners of homelands all over the world emigrating to geographic Palestine.

        || … their historic ‘homeland’ … ||

        Geographic Palestine wasn’t the historic (or ancient, ancestral, eternal, lost or one true) homeland of every person in the world who chose to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

        || … The Jewish population of Eretz Yisroel swelled to one third, before the land was engulfed in a civil war, which the Arabs began and which the Jews finished. … ||

        It was the Jewish supremacists (Zionists) and not “the Arabs” who planned to carve out of geographic Palestine – the actual homeland of all geographic Palestinians – as large as possible a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” for themselves and for Jewish foreigners all over the world at the expense of the indigenous non-Jewish geographic Palestinian population.

        But, yeah, aggressor-victimhood is a tough gig.  :-(

        || … Through out the entire period of the Mandate, 30 years, the Arabs legally sold their lands to the Jews for pound sterling. ||

        Nothing wrong with the indigenous population of geographic Palestine selling land to Jewish foreigners.

        || … “steal, occupy and colonize geographic Palestine” … ||

        Correct.

      • echinococcus on September 13, 2019, 3:46 pm

        “The Zionists began settling in Eretz Yisroel while it was Ottoman.”

        Without authorization from the inhabitants. Without authorization even from the Sultan to take over sovereignty.

        “More Zionists were invited to settle in their historic ‘homeland’ after the League of Nations duly deliberated and invited settlement”

        Without authorization from the inhabitants, who now were owners of the territory.

        How many thousand times has this …. Zionist been told the same and how many thousand times does he repeat his nonsense without ever bang able to answer an elementary rebuttal that cancels his BS? Remember Julius Streicher.

      • RoHa on September 14, 2019, 12:39 am

        “Nothing wrong with Jewish foreigners of homelands all over the world emigrating to geographic Palestine.”

        As long as they do so with the permission of the people who were already living there, and with the intention of assimilating into the society.

      • RoHa on September 14, 2019, 12:46 am

        You keep using this term “historic homeland” as though it were some sort of significant mantra. But it has no effect until you tell us what it actually means, what implications you think it has, and what arguments support those implications.

      • annie on September 14, 2019, 2:22 am

        it’s not unusual for religions or cults to imbue significance to certain terms or ideas that hold no meaning outside that realm. like referencing ‘blood of christ’ (for christians) or referring to a person as a clear (scientology, free of reactive mind). you either have to be born into it or brainwashed into it. if everyone had an attachment to the idea of their historic homeland people would be clamoring to get their dna tests and swarming back to africa or europe or wherever, to kick people out of their homes and imagine their great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great etc grandparents lived their in the bronze age (which gives them some inherent right of possession), and they aren’t. it’s a manufactured sentiment, unless you’ve been indoctrinated into believing it has significance. iow, it’s perfectly fine if means nothing to you, means you’re like the other 98.9% of humanity. or 99.9%, i have no idea.

      • RoHa on September 14, 2019, 3:52 am

        “it’s not unusual for religions or cults to imbue significance to certain terms or ideas that hold no meaning outside that realm.”

        True, but I want to see what the term means. When a Christian tells us what he means by “blood of Christ”, then we can discuss the idea and see whether it is a coherent concept that has some connection to reality, or just a load of old cobblers, or something in between.

      • eljay on September 14, 2019, 6:51 pm

        || RoHa: “Nothing wrong with Jewish foreigners of homelands all over the world emigrating to geographic Palestine.”

        As long as they do so with the permission of the people who were already living there, and with the intention of assimilating into the society. ||

        I agree. And that’s why I believe Israel must be reformed…
        – from a deliberately and unapologetically colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” primarily of and for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews;
        – to a law-abiding, secular and democratic Israeli state of and for all people living in or up to n-generations removed from within its / Partition borders.

      • echinococcus on September 14, 2019, 8:11 pm

        Eljay,

        [to RoHa’s :
        “Nothing wrong with Jewish foreigners of homelands all over the world emigrating to geographic Palestine.
        As long as they do so with the permission of the people who were already living there, and with the intention of assimilating into the society.” ]

        “I agree. ”

        Oh yeah? Let’s see

        “And that’s why I believe Israel must be reformed…
        “to a … Israeli state of and for all people living in or up to n-generations removed from within its / Partition borders”

        meaning, you are including the intruders who invaded clearly without “the permission of the people who were already living there”, in fact against the strenuous opposition of the latter, and no permission forthcoming yet after 120+ years,
        clearly without “the intention of assimilating into the society”, in fact having declared upfront their intent to subvert sovereignty and build their own, colonial, racial supremacist and genocidaire regime.

        So you definitely don’t agree. You state the opposite.
        Am I the only one to identify like a want of linear, Aristotelian logic here?

      • echinococcus on September 15, 2019, 6:57 am

        Annie

        Please.
        ” you either have to be born into [religion] or brainwashed into it.”

        Where is the “or”? Now irrational belief is inborn? No brainwashing if you are beyond facts and logic because you got your craze in the chromosomes of a nominal religion? Wow, that’s stronger even than the Ottomans or the Hebrews.

    • RoHa on September 14, 2019, 12:44 am

      So the Romans didn’t drive out the Jews from Palestine, and the Jews who stayed were not so oppressed that they couldn’t build synagogues and afford first rate mosaic artists to decorate the floors.

      Fine.

      And how does this give modern European Jews any rights whatsoever to Palestine?

      • echinococcus on September 16, 2019, 12:21 am

        “…the Jews who stayed were not so oppressed that they couldn’t build synagogues and afford first rate mosaic artists to decorate the floors”

        and those who squat there today could afford even better, even first-rater than that: superlative Zionist restoration artists to “restore” missing portions of said first-rate mosaics.

        At that rate, one could beautifully restore Sappho’s poem fragments enough to make all Ancient Greeks Jewish, too –why not?

    • echinococcus on September 14, 2019, 4:27 pm

      “As long as they do so with the permission of the people who were already living there, and with the intention of assimilating into the society.”

      Repeating RoHa, just in case, hooping that LJ hears it this time.

  20. Jackdaw on September 14, 2019, 12:24 pm

    @Peacock Annie

    I drove to Nirim today to see first hand the Maon/Nirim mosaic.

    It is most definitely NOT a replaced menorah.

    The site was Jewish synagogue.

    Period.

    • annie on September 14, 2019, 1:45 pm

      jack, either way, color me unimpressed.

      here’s what i see, clearly: a massive push to turn palestine into a judaic theme park as part of a colonial project. an area with a long history of all kinds of people inhabiting it all taking a back seat to a specific people who (presumably) had a dynasty there for 70 years back in the day and now has archeologists crawling all over it and under it in a quest to prove the dominance of one people over this region. get it? unimpressed. and under these conditions i view everything coming out of this time period (today) as heavily biased, marginal, and with skepticism.

      try not to take it too personally, this is my nature. the same nature as the little girl who challenged the belief anyone ever walked on water and reindeers don’t fly by the age of three. the same person who challenged the idea jesus was ever a real person from my early teens (still not convinced). don’t take it personally. this is an era of photoshopping, fake news, desperate gullible people trying to PROVE what happened thousands of years ago. NOT IMPRESSED. let it go. some people won’t be convince no matter how much you hammer your ptv, w/accusations of bigotry or whatever. you’re barking up the wrong tree.

    • Mooser on September 14, 2019, 1:51 pm

      “Period.”

      You are right, enough about birds. Now, what has large floppy ears, is grey and always carries a trunk?

  21. Jackdaw on September 14, 2019, 3:00 pm

    @Annie

    The last thing I care to do is impress you or your Mondoweiss chums.
    The last thing.

    What I want to do is to reveal the truth.

    When bigots like Justice48 lie and slander, than I challenge them, and like a typical bully, he backed down when challenged.
    A liar and a coward.

    I drove an hour and half today in order to find out the truth for myself.
    If I thought for one minute that the mosaic was tampered with, I’d tell you.

    Annie. You let Justice48 off, because his lies comport with your narrative.
    To hell with the truth, so long as our side advances the ball.

    • annie on September 14, 2019, 6:20 pm

      by “he backed down” what do you mean? justice48 has only commented here 8 times in the last 3 years. what are the chances he/she didn’t even follow the conversation or has not even read this thread or any other from the site since he/she last commented.

      good grief, don’t get ahead of yourself.

      The last thing I care to do is impress you or your Mondoweiss chums.

      is that why you refuse to use the reply button and require your own new thread for each of your comments — the way trolls do?

      • Jackdaw on September 15, 2019, 12:31 am

        Than Justice48 is a ‘bomb thrower’, who’s already moved on.

        More reason to doubt him if he’s a keyboard terrorist, but no, you aided and abetted.

        BTW, I don’t know what trolls do.

      • Mooser on September 15, 2019, 12:50 pm

        “Than Justice48 is a ‘bomb thrower’, who’s already moved on.

        I’m so glad “Jackdaw” is watching out for Mondo’s IT security.

      • Mooser on September 15, 2019, 1:25 pm

        “BTW, I don’t know what trolls do.”

        Here you go, “Jackdaw”

  22. Mooser on September 14, 2019, 4:13 pm

    “If I thought for one minute that the mosaic was tampered with, I’d tell you.” “Jackdaw”

    Of course you would! And you would know, having a degree in Mosaic Law.

    BTW, “Jackdaw” isn’t your relationship with Mondo getting obsessive? You’ll just end up getting yourself banned.

    • RoHa on September 14, 2019, 10:04 pm

      I really don’t know about the mosaic, Mooser, but in general I have to say I agree with Jackdaw’s assessment.

      1. The Romans drove out all the Jews from Palestine?

      Complete rubbish!

      2. The Jews were so oppressed that they could not build synagogues and hire pricey artists?

      Complete rubbish!

      3. The presence of ancient Jews in Palestine gives a bunch of modern Europeans and Americans sole right of sovereignty over the territory, and the right to slaughter and dispossess the people who were established residents?

      Complete rubbish!

      • Jackdaw on September 15, 2019, 12:40 am

        @Roha

        Only an ignoramus believes the Romans threw out all the Jews.

        The wealthy Jews of Gaza and the Northern Negev built there synagogues 500 years after the Romans destroyed the Jewish presence in Jerusalem.

        BTW, the Byzantine Christians did oppress the Jews of Eretz Yisroel, mostly by banning their return to Jerusalem. The Jews of Eretz Yisroel rebelled two or three times against the Byzantines, who slaughtered local Samaritan Jews as well.

        The continued presence of Jews in Eretz Yisroel over the millenia only reinforces the Jewish attachment to, and claim on, their ancestral homeland.

        Thanks!

      • eljay on September 15, 2019, 8:42 am

        || Jackdaw: … The continued presence of Jews in Eretz Yisroel over the millenia only reinforces the Jewish attachment to, and claim on, their ancestral homeland. ||

        The notion that geographic Palestine is the ancient / historic / ancestral / lost / one true homeland of every person in the world – of every citizen of every homeland throughout the world – who has chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish is pure Zionist fantasy.

        The fact that the geographic Palestinian population over the millennia has included people who have chosen to be Jewish doesn’t transform Zionist fantasy into reality.

        And it certainly doesn’t validate the hateful and immoral Zionist belief that the religion-based identity of Jewish grants to those who choose to embrace it the “right”:
        – to be supremacists;
        – to have a supremacist state; and
        – to do “necessary evil” unto others.

      • RoHa on September 15, 2019, 8:56 am

        The continued presence of Palestinian Jews in Palestine over the centuries supports the claim of Palestinian Jews to the right to live in their ancestral homeland.

        The continued presence of Palestinian Christians in Palestine over the centuries supports the claim of Palestinian Christians to the right to live in their ancestral homeland.

        The continued presence of Palestinian Muslims in Palestine over the centuries supports the claim of Palestinian Muslims to the right to live in their ancestral homeland.

        But that continued presence gives no rights to Polish Jews, Bolivian Christians, or Indonesian Muslims.

      • echinococcus on September 15, 2019, 8:56 am

        The Jack$$ has yet to provide certified papers for his personal ancestry. In early Byzantine times the Jack$$’ own, personal ancestors were most probably in Central or Northeast Asia prior to invading the Caspian shore, or in a good half-dozen other places — or perhaps, a chance in a million, even in Palestine, you never know. Only we haven’t seen the certified personal papers of Mr. Jack *$$.

        But even if it were different, there comes the problem with certified ancestry. I very much desire to get a Swiss citizenship, with the protected bank account that’s supposed to come with it. I also have undeniable proof that my great-great granpa in the 1840s was a Swiss citizen by birth — but lo and behold the Swiss don’t give me citizenship or automatic right of permanent residence.

        I told them that, let alone being a 180-year true descendent, it’s enough to be an obscure-origin co-religionist of some of the inhabitants as of 2,000 years ago. That gives me the right (even onto invading their country and chasing them away, signed Herzl) but they only laughed their @$$es off.

      • echinococcus on September 15, 2019, 9:01 am

        “Only an ignoramus believes the Romans threw out all the Jews.”

        Finally a correct statement. Tell it to the Zionists, who have been bleating nonsense about a “diaspora”…. because that is their only justification for the fake “return” in the shape of colonial conquest and invasion!

        There’s no “diaspora”. Just conversion to Judaism in some places and conversion to Christianity and Islam in Palestine (not to mention Crusade massacres.) With possibly a very few exceptions.

        All this of course totally irrelevant to the ownership of Palestine today, which is totally Palestinian.

      • echinococcus on September 15, 2019, 10:53 am

        “And it certainly doesn’t validate the hateful and immoral Zionist belief that the religion-based identity of Jewish grants to those who choose to embrace it the “right”:”

        – to even be there, period.

      • RoHa on September 15, 2019, 10:17 pm

        @Echinococcus:

        Oooh! Those evil Swiss!

        Tell them that you are the child of Holocaust victims. You might not get citizenship, but they’ll give you some money.

      • Jackdaw on September 16, 2019, 12:41 am

        @RoHa

        “Polish Jews, Bolivian Christians, or Indonesian Muslims.”

        Fail.

        Jews are the indigenous people of Eretz Yisroel, not Poland.
        Indonesians are from Indonesia, not Eretz Yisroel or Poland.
        Bolivian Christians came from Spain and from indigenous Bolivian tribes.

        Fail. Fail. Fail.

      • eljay on September 16, 2019, 8:56 am

        || Jackdaw: … Jews are the indigenous people of Eretz Yisroel, not Poland. … ||

        Jewish Poles – and non-Jewish Poles – are indigenous to Poland. Geographic Palestinians are the indigenous people of geographic Palestine. There is no “Eretz Yisroel”. Fail.

        || … Indonesians are from Indonesia, not Eretz Yisroel or Poland. … ||

        Right:
        – Indonesia for non-Jewish and Jewish Indonesians;
        – Poland for non-Jewish and Jewish Poles;
        – Israel for non-Jewish and Jewish Israelis; and
        – geographic Palestine for non-Jewish and Jewish geographic Palestinians.

        There is no “Eretz Yisroel” and there are no “Eretz Yisroelians”. Fail.

        || Bolivian Christians came from Spain and from indigenous Bolivian tribes. … ||

        Just as geographic Palestinian Jews came from Poland and Russia and from indigenous geographic Palestinians.

        It’s funny how sometimes you say things that make it seem as though you understand reality, but it never sticks and almost immediately you’re back in ZioFantasyLand.

        Fail. Fail. Fail.

      • echinococcus on September 16, 2019, 10:54 am

        The Zionists in our midst are not normally-thinking people.

        Take the [email protected]$$: to the explicit phrase “Polish Jews ” he answers:

        “Jews are the indigenous people of Eretz Yisroel, not Poland”

        If that ain’t plumb insanity, I don’t know what is.

        (And he does it in a German dialect of Poland.)

    • echinococcus on September 16, 2019, 11:03 am

      Eljay,

      “Israel for non-Jewish and Jewish Israelis”

      This within-Zionist bickering about the fate of the aborigines is becoming tiresome.

  23. Ossinev on September 15, 2019, 11:29 am

    @Jackanory
    “The continued presence of Jews in Eretz Yisroel over the millenia only reinforces the Jewish attachment to, and claim on, their ancestral homeland”

    The continued presence of apes in Eretz Africa over the millenia etc.

  24. justice48 on September 15, 2019, 1:03 pm

    Is Al Ma’in synagogue forgery or authentic?
    Evidence is needed to explain the presence of a sixth century synagogue in the midst of Byzantine southern Palestine.
    Here are facts which may help to answer this question.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATjxkSy9xNk&t=8s
    Either way, the examples of Israeli attempts to create/fabricate evidence of ‘Jewish history’ are numerous.
    In the 15 years after Nakba, the plan to destroy Palestinian villages had an archaeological team whose purpose was to destroy or keep any buildings or artefacts according to their value singularly for Jewish history if any.

    • Jackdaw on September 16, 2019, 6:44 am

      @Injustice

      What happened to your video?
      Who removed it? Those perfidious Zionists again?

      So much for truth and justice.

    • justice48 on September 16, 2019, 10:25 am

      For those interested in the 3.4 minute video showing some historical data the link is:

      • Jackdaw on September 16, 2019, 12:55 pm

        Injustice withdrew his video after I left my comment. Now he’s posted the video again, having deleted my comment. He’ll probably do this again, so I will post my comment here as well.

        “Dirty lies from a bitter anti-Zionist. The synagogue mosaic was discovered in 1957 and restored in 2006.
        Before restoration, the site was surveyed by several archeologists who submitted peer reviewed papers. The menorah was there from the day the mosaic was excavated til now. No one altered the mosaic.
        The synagogue has a space for a ‘bimah’, a housing for the Torah scroll. Jewish magic amulets were found at the site. The synagogue is oriented towards Jerusalem. Several other Jewish symbols appear in the mosaic, including lulav, etrog and shofar. Yes, the synagogue closely resembles local Byzantine churches, but it more closely resembles the contemporaneous JEWISH synagogue at Gaza, located maybe 10 miles away.”

        Read the book, if you don’t believe me, read the book on Jewish synagogues in Byzantine South, or any number of archeological reports and surveys.
        https://books.google.co.il/books?id=VdR0CgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Maon+synagogue+nirim+coastal&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmtOXa_MfkAhWDCOwKHdmTBVcQ6AEIPDAD#v=onepage&q&f=false

        This person who posted this video is trying to destroy Jewish history, and has deleted my comments once already.

        Not only has Injustice lied about the historical facts and smeared the integrity of field archeologists and scholars, now he is censoring criticism .

        Viva Palestina!

  25. Jackdaw on September 16, 2019, 1:00 pm

    Oh, and lets not forget the the Zionist Jews who threw Abu Sitta out of his house, did so because Abu Sitta had taken up arms and attacked the Jews. Abu Sitta lost a gunfight with Jews, who were also fighting the Egyptian army invasion of Israel.

Leave a Reply